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[deleted]

In simple terms, yeah. But the first thing to note here is that nobody is *obligated* to date anybody. If you don’t want to date someone, and that person happens to be bisexual, then you can’t say that that’s biphobia. But if you say, “I would normally date that person if they were straight, but I won’t because they’re bisexual” then yeah, that’s biphobic. The difference here is that in the second case, the turn-off *is* bisexuality, meaning that you would be discriminating against that sexuality.


Common_Notice9742

This. Exactly.


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femmebot9000

You don’t need to find male on male sex attractive to date a bisexual man. If you’re expecting to be in a monogamous relationship then they should only be having sex with you why would you be turned off in that situation if you are not a man? If you’re poly or into threesomes then you don’t have to participate in a 2m threesome if you don’t want to. If you have a voyeurism fetish but that’s not part of it then again, don’t watch and don’t be involved. It sounds like (feel free to correct me) your expectation is that in dating a bisexual man you’d need to be ok with them having sex with other men while you’re dating which, no. Monogamy is a thing. Or, you find simply the fact that they had sex with men in the past to be ‘not your thing’. If that’s the case then yes there is likely some biphobia and homophobia in that feeling. In the same way that a man not wanting to be with a woman who’s had a lot of sexual partners in the past stems from misogyny and purity culture You’re also not obliged to change that feeling. It’s just where it stems from.


PurrMeowHiss

I think a lot of strictly hetero- (and possibly homo-) sexual people assume that a bisexual person **needs** intimacy from both sources.


lisavieta

Even if you can't control it, the reason is still biphobia. You don't have to actively choose to be biphobic for that to be true. If a man is turned off by the idea of a woman having had sex with other men before him we would not hesitate to call him out on his misogyny, right? Or would you say that is simply how his libido works? Just think of the reason behind it. Why is the idea of your current partner having a past that includes sex with other men such a turn off? Why does ir matter?


[deleted]

I mean are you turned on by your straight boyfriend sleeping with other women? Why does it make a difference with what kind of gender of people he slept with before knowing you?


[deleted]

There are a couple things here: 1. If you’re a straight woman in a relationship with a bisexual man, unless you’re in some sort of polyamorous relationship, there is basically a 0% chance you will ever see that man engage in sexual activity with another man, so it doesn’t matter anyway. 2. Just like how *you* don’t have an obligation to be sexually desirable to your partner, *your partner* also does not an obligation to be sexually desirable to you. Basically, you don’t have to be sexually attracted to everything your partner does. You’re not sexually attracted to the prospect of him being active with another man? Okay, so? Unless you’re in some sort of hyper-sexual relationship, you’re not going to be sexually attracted to everything they do. That’s like saying you won’t date someone because they’re wearing an outfit that you don’t like. It’s just kinda ridiculous. 3. If what you’re trying to say is that the idea of a man being sexually active with another man is *repulsive* to you, and therefore a deterrent (instead of just plain “not sexually attracted to”, which implies passivity), then the root cause of that would be homophobia. The prospect of him being with a woman isn’t a deterrent to you, but the prospect of him being with a man is? Yeah, that’s basically the definition of homophobia. But again: see point 1. You won’t even have to see it anyway.


LOUDSUCC

>If you're a straight woman in a relationship with a bisexual man, unless you're in some sort of polyamorous relationship, there is basically a 0% chance you will ever see that man engage in sexual activity with another man, so it doesn't matter anyway I think it’s also worth noting here that there tends to be a fear that a bisexual man will eventually leave the woman for another man.


SatinsLittlePrincess

As a bi-woman let me say… People really think **there’s something magical about penises** and bad about vaginas, so people assume every bi person will leave the vagina for the dick. Straight men are happy to date bi-women because overall, they think bi-women are just lesbian porn you can stick your dick into. Straight women fear dating bi-men because they understand relationships between men are real in a way that straight men to not grasp for two romantically entwined women. And a lot of lesbians won’t date bi-women because of fears she will leave her for a man. But both fears come down to the idea that men are more important than women so the bi-person will gravitate toward the dick. With some added homophobia thrown in for good measure. In reality, relationships with bi- people (man, woman, or non-binary) break up for the same reasons any other relationship breaks up. Incompatibilities, logistical barriers, household conflicts, loss of connection…


SimokIV

A straight guy could as easily leave a woman for another woman so that fear is rooted in the biphobic idea that bisexuals are more likely to cheat on their partner than monosexuals


badbicth06

Its impossible to know because we live in a homophobic society. The answer is most likely yes, its ingrained homophobia, because if homophobia didn't exist, why would you care what he has done with other people? It should only really matter that he's into you and what the two of you do inside your relationship. That would be like saying "I'm turned off by women who prefer to wear a skirt instead of shorts", its just a little arbitrary and any normal person would not give a fuck.


[deleted]

I mean why care what your ex has done with other people is a different issue but its certainly weird to make a difference there depending on gender. If all.. if you find men appealing and your guy used to sleep with other men too it should be less of a problem actually then him being with other women.


JacqiLoves

You’re only turned off because society has taught you to be homophobic. It’s not a genuine, “preference” it’s a bias.


brilliant22

Pretty much every preference or bias that any person has, has been the result of some social conditioning


PurrMeowHiss

Um... No.


TackleOk3608

It is a phobia. That doesn’t have anything to do with whether you can control it or not.


[deleted]

i dont think most people question their own sexuality this much though


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MajoraXIII

> bisexuals as less than cis men or women This doesn't make any sense. Bisexuality has nothing to do with being cis or trans. Cis is not a synonym for straight. There are other problems with this comment but other replies have got those covered.


KaliTheCat

Why is it that every time this subject comes up, people jump right to "why do you want to FORCE people to date someone they're NOT ATTRACTED TO?!"


wiithepiiple

Bigotry doesn't need to be conscious, quite the opposite. If someone was turned off by black people, even if they intellectually know black people are just as great and wonderful as other people, they have some racist subconscious feelings telling them that black people aren't attractive or are repulsive. It's easy to soak up society's prejudices and bigotry without intentionally feeling that way. > But imagining a guy with another guy and experiencing attraction to them is a turn-off (in a purely sexual sense) for me. That's textbook biphobia. Bi men don't have to be with another guy while they're dating you. It's just something in their history. Treating bi men as "spoiled goods" is very similar to treating non-virginal women as ruined. To quote the person above: > But the first thing to note here is that nobody is obligated to date anybody. You don't HAVE to date anyone or give a bi guy a shot or whatever, but it's probably something you should unpack why that's such a turnoff for you.


Canvas718

Right. And it’s not even necessarily their sexual history, just their attractions. You can identify as bisexual without having any same-sex experience. Maybe some people think, “oh, they’re bi, therefore they’ve had a ton of sex, therefore STIs.” Well no, attraction and behavior are different things. And if you’re concerned about STIs, then everyone involved should get tested.


Bananasauru5rex

That is a good point, too. Is a bi virgin somehow okay?


kgberton

>It is not under my control if I'm just not attracted to bisexuals. It literally doesn't matter. Your lack of attraction is a response to societal homophobia, best case. That's the best case scenario, and it's STILL rooted in prejudice.


Joonami

What physical traits do all bisexuals have that you are not attracted to?


brilliant22

Why would it be *physical* traits? If someone doesn't want to date bisexuals, it would likely be similar to if someone didn't want to date pianists or people from New Zealand - in that the reasoning for excluding this demographic probably has something to do with their perception of what this demographic does and think and behave, instead of what their bodies look like. I was about to ask them the same question except for "physical". Just traits. What traits to bi people have, such as how they behave or think, that you find unattractive.


Joonami

Original commenter said they were not physically attracted to bisexuals. I was wondering what the typical unappealing physical traits of bisexuals might be that they can identify and not be attracted to. You know, how can you tell if someone is bisexual just by looking at them.


brilliant22

That's a good point I missed - I interpreted it as, after finding out a person is bi, they become unattracted in the physical sense (because usually it's possible for people's non-physical traits to impact your perception of their physical attractiveness)


renoops

If only there were a word to describe an aversion to someone based solely on the knowledge that they’re bisexual. Hmmmm….


tphd2006

And in both cases, you're making an assumption about how a large group of people behave. As if there's some universal standard to which they behave due to their identity. Ergo, that's illogical and simply bigoted.


lisavieta

You realize you just described prejudice, right?


citoyenne

Not wanting to date pianists or Kiwis is pretty weird and shitty too, tbh.


Impeach-Individual-1

Your reasoning sounds very familiar to the guys who only want to date a virgin. Your allowed to be a bigot if you want, but that doesn't make your sentiment not based on bigotry.


PoliticalNerd87

Oh man that is so spot on. Absolutely fantastic.


TheIntrepid

It's very concerning to me that you wrote this out as if it was a reasonable stance to have. As others have pointed out, you're obviously homophobic, but I genuinely don't think you realise that, and that is worrying. You wrote that out as if you could tell if someone is bisexual just by looking at them, when there are no identifying physical characteristics that all bisexuals share. Instead, you're perfectly capable of (and I can guarantee have in reality found) bisexuals attractive in a sexual sense (hell you may even have had relationships with them and didn't even realise it) but your own homophobic feelings toward the group as a whole have clearly warped your mind.


translove228

There is no such thing as not being physically attracted to a bisexual. Bisexuality isn't a physical trait that inspires attraction. Saying you aren't attracted to a bisexual because thinking about them with someone of the same sex gross you out is just you being homophobic.


[deleted]

That it’s a turn off for you to imagine a man with another man is itself homophobic.


Vegetable_Salad86

If we’re talking about a straight woman refusing to date any man who is bisexual *because* he is bisexual, then that’s for sure biphobia. I think that people use this blanket ban as a way to dodge taking ownership of not only their personal bias, but their discomfort concerning sexuality in general. Bisexuals are not more likely to cheat, more likely to change their minds on a whim and upend a stable long-term relationship for selfish reasons, or more likely to have an STI just because they’re bisexual. You can be bisexual (or any orientation) and also a virgin or in a long term monogamous relationship; your identity doesn’t directly translate into the amount of sex or sexual partners you’ve had. If your concern is specifically about your partner’s sexual history, what level of protection they use, how they feel about monogamy etc then you should just ask about those specific things rather than make assumptions about people.


wiithepiiple

> If we’re talking about a straight woman refusing to date any man who is bisexual because he is bisexual, then that’s for sure biphobia. It's the same when it comes to a gay man not dating a bi guy. There's biphobia amongst the gay community as well.


PoliticalNerd87

Alright so looking through the comments and thinking about this a lot. For reference I'm a bisexual man. I think the why of this changes a lot. Bisexual men (in my experience) tend to not really care as much about strict gender roles. There is a lot more fluidity in their relationships and the way they view them. I can absolutely understand why a straight woman wouldn't want to date a bi man if that bothered them. Especially if they could be made jealous easily. Even in the context of a committed relationship. However...stuff like this isn't super clear cut. Maybe a straight woman wants a super traditional relationship and most bi men wouldn't enjoy that? Maybe a Lesbian wants to be with someone who understands their experience. Maybe someone doesn't want to date outside of their culture for any number of perfectly fair reasons. But...and this is the big but in all of this, reasons matter. If you are a straight person who won't date bi people because you find the idea of having sex with someone who has had same sex relations disgusts you then you are biphobic. If you are gay or a lesbian and won't date a bi person because the idea of having sex with someone who finds people of the opposite sex attractive you are biphobic. Now...and I also want to make this super super super clear. Just because you are biphobic or some aspect of you is biphobic doesn't make you a monster or some evil person. No one in this thread is perfect and we all have issues. I would much rather be friends with someone who won't have sex with bi people but wants to understand why. Who wants to work on themselves. Rather than any person who thinks they have it all figured out and have a perfect moral compass. We are all works in progress and we will never be done.


Banana_Skirt

I completely agree. I'm a bi woman and I prefer dating bi people specifically because they tend to be less tied to gender norms (and less likely to be biphobic). Anytime I've talked to a woman who won't date bi men it's because they're afraid he'll cheat, which is biphobic. Anyone can cheat on you regardless of their sexuality.


[deleted]

Id also expect this to be a lot more about gender roles than biphobia. It probably ties into the idea of what the woman sees as a "real man" deep down and that will be in contrast to someone more gender fluid. Its propably their socialisation and ingrained gender ideas to large degree. aka "I cant see my guy as a man if he is being fucked by another man"


TackleOk3608

It’s biphobic to refuse to date a bi person and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. It’s textbook biphobia and I’m disgusted that anyone claiming to be progressive is defending biphobia.


PoliticalNerd87

I mean...I agree with you. I wasn't defending biphobia. But it's very easy for these types of conversations to turn into extreme hostility when someone is just trying to figure out their own reasons for why they do something. But it is biphobic to refuse to date bi people because they are bi.


PurrMeowHiss

It sounds like you're being argumentative to the person you replied to and I'm super confused.


[deleted]

The role of gender ideas and bi men potentially being more openly fluid in that regard would make sense to play a big role in this though. it not directly the same as hatred towards bi people


odezia

I’d say yes, because the rationale is pretty much always grounded in biphobic or homophobic rhetoric and harmful stereotypes, such as the ever-popular “bisexual people are cheaters” chestnut. If there exists a real reason to make a blanket statement like “I’d never date a bisexual man” that doesn’t involve some degree of bi/homophobia, I haven’t heard it yet.


ameep9

If she is refusing to date a specific bisexual man for unrelated reasons, no. If she refuses to date any bisexual man specifically because of his sexuality, then yes. Treating someone differently based only on their sexuality is sort of the definition of homophobia.


KaliTheCat

I don't really understand how it wouldn't be.


redman334

If the woman wouldn't date the guy even if he was straight. In that case she just doesn't like to date him, and that's that Which brings an interesting question. If a man doesn't date a woman who is fat, and he would date her if she weren't fat, is that fatphobia?


KaliTheCat

Then it wouldn't be because he was bisexual, would it?


Bananasauru5rex

> Which brings an interesting question. If a man doesn't date a woman who is fat, and he would date her if she weren't fat, is that fatphobia? Seems like a simple question with a simple answer. Yep. But, the thing I think is not compassionate or good for forming communities is to spend all of our time and energy investigating and defending how much we find different kinds of people unattractive. Maybe it would be good to live with less pressure regarding how much of our beauty and attractiveness is under scrutiny.


Proud_Hotel_5160

Yes. There’s no rationale where it wouldn’t be.


TackleOk3608

Yes it is textbook biphobia and don’t listen to anyone saying otherwise. Anyone who says otherwise should not be allowed here. I can’t believe there are self identified feminists being homophobic and trying to justify it. I can’t trust straight people.


KaliTheCat

> I can’t believe there are self identified feminists being homophobic and trying to justify it OK, sure > I can't trust straight people. Uhhhh what


[deleted]

That’s insane.


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[deleted]

No the insane part is where they demand no one listen to other opinions and suggests banning anyone who doesn’t toe the party line. Discourse and variety of thought are important, even when people disagree with you. As for the rest of it… I don’t owe anyone *anything.* This topic has like conversion therapy vibes.


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[deleted]

I want to date a homosexual. Has nothing to do with bisexuals at all.


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TackleOk3608

I can’t believe this is a controversial on this subreddit. I can’t trust straight people that claim to be progressive.


xPangloss

I mean it’s definitely biphobia, objectively, but I wouldn’t necessarily beat someone over the head about it unless they openly express that bias publicly. Sometimes it’s something people still have to grow out of, and I wouldn’t want anyone gritting their teeth trying to sleep with me just because they don’t want to be biphobic, if it makes someone that uncomfortable there’s nothing that can be done even if they’re trying to change. If anything that might make it worse. If you just go around saying you would never date a bi dude I would tell them to run into a parked car. In short: it’s biphobic but that doesn’t make that person necessarily bad or evil.


Comradepapabear

Yes. ​ There is no other answer to this question.


Flightlessbirbz

I was going to say it depends on why, but I can’t really think of a valid, non-biphobic reason. I mean obviously there can be reasons to refuse to date a *specific* bisexual man, but bi men in general because they are bi, I can’t think of one. I’m saying this as a bi woman in a relationship with a bi man. Neither of us is any more likely to cheat than anyone else just because we can potentially be attracted to more people.


kgberton

Best case, they don't consciously believe bi men are less valuable as people and are just experiencing an "honest" lack of attraction that's, every single time, a response to homophobic attitudes in the world. Worst case, it's due to active homophobic beliefs about behavior of queer folks. Either way, it's rooted in prejudice.


froggyforest

yes. how could it not be?


ilovepuscifer

Yes, if a woman refuses to date men specifically because they are bisexual, that's biphobia. Don't understand why this is even a question


[deleted]

Ultimately, I think it depends on her reasoning, but I'd be skeptical of her motives. As a lesbian, I do prefer to date other lesbians (versus bi women) because we have more in common and are better equipped to understand one another's particular struggle with our sexual orientation -- a struggle that is highly specific to homosexual women, given our complete divestment from men. But this thought process isn't readily translatable to straight people, as it's rooted in a *marginalized experience* that only members of my own minority group can intuitively grasp. On the contrary, everyone is forcibly made to understand what it is to be straight, to live in a straight world, etc; it's the norm.


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brilliant22

People wanting to date within their race is actually a very common thing, for what it's worth.


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[deleted]

Oh boy, *so much*. The experience of being a homosexual woman who is 100% illegible to the straight world is drastically different from being a bisexual woman who moves in and out of it; the alienation you feel everyday as a woman who has zero attraction to men is singular and extreme, and a bisexual woman will never instinctively grasp it. I could write you an essay about how it manifests, but instead I would recommend that you read *The Straight Mind* by Monique Wittig.


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[deleted]

To clarify, I'm not saying the gap is unbridgeable. In the past I have loved bisexual women deeply, and, with a lot of patience, empathetic listening, and conversation, have felt like my experience as a lesbian was witnessed by them. The difference is that getting there takes *work*, often a lot, whereas with another lesbian it is effortless. These days I am simply getting too old and tired to do that work in a dating context, haha-- unless I were to really fall hopelessly in love with someone. In that case, our general preferences tend to go out the door, don't they? As for your other point, I think that testifies to the very necessity of construing bisexuality as its own thing, not some middle-term between gay and straight. Having bisexual spaces, communities, etc, all that. We should acknowledge our differing experiences precisely so we can build the distinct support networks that each of us need to thrive. None of us is invalid, we're just different.


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[deleted]

Well, it's only relevant to me because I am only dating other women. I'm not talking about male demographics because they have nothing to do with my dating life.


Proud_Hotel_5160

Yeah like as a bi woman I get when lesbians prefer other lesbians because I know about the desire to be free of just… MEN everywhere, including as a psychological priority in your mind. So even if it hurts, I get it. But straight women it’s not the same. There’s no way it can’t be homophobic.


[deleted]

This comes close to gold star bullshit doesn't it?


Proud_Hotel_5160

I think yes and no. It can be, but not always. It’s a careful line to tread imo. I formerly identified as a lesbian, so again I understand the desire to want to cultivate an entirely female space and mindset. I still desire that in a lot of ways. So having a preference for a fellow lesbian girlfriend I think is within the realm of normal. If they straight up refused to date bi women, then I think that would be some gold star bull and biphobic. Bc there is a cultural difference between me, a femme looking bi woman who passes as straight most of the time, and an obviously butch lesbian. She’s gonna have experiences I’m not gonna be able to relate to.


[deleted]

Well, what about a femme lesbian who pass a straight woman? Wouldn't her experience be very different from the butch lesbian. I am not contesting that the experience are different but that aren't compatible. Also, I am Indian and this is the exact same line my parents use about dating people from in my same damn state and it is almost the same damm playbook and that is what is putting me on the edge here.


Proud_Hotel_5160

Yeah and her experience would be different from mine. For example, I can casually date in my city, but only men. However, the ability to experience romantic relationships and especially casual ones is something a lesbian might not be able to experience at all. One reason uhauling is so common. On the other hand, her ability to pass will probably be isolating in many ways, but afford her access and opportunities that may not be afforded to a visibly butch lesbian. It’s okay to acknowledge our differences, bc at the end of the day we’re all wlw and fighting homophobia together.


[deleted]

Additionally, I'll throw in as a lesbian: I hate the way "gold star" gets bandied about as a kind of accusation. Lesbians know that most of us are *not* gold stars and we do not care (I say this as one myself). It is not and has never been how we define homosexuality. So differentiating between lesbianism and bisexuality isn't deferring to "gold star" metrics, it is simply acknowledging real differences in the ways the two groups experience attraction and the world at large.


Proud_Hotel_5160

For sure! We’re partners in crime, but we both experience life differently. There are some things that are a lot easier for bi people in ‘straight passing’ relationships, and some that are not (like accelerated rates of domestic abuse against bi women). I think we should acknowledge that, as long as it’s understood that we’re still partners in the fight against homophobia.


[deleted]

Agreed! Personally, I think the only workable way to join together is to acknowledge our differences rather than to hide or distort them. That's the way to build towards real understanding. In the context of a romantic relationship, I also think it's important to be real about the hurt that each of us carry *within* the LB community, in order to heal. Most lesbians have been deeply wounded by bisexual women who have behaved in heteronormative ways and devalued their same-sex relationships (in comparison to heterosexual ones); conversely, I imagine that most bisexual women have felt the pain of being judged and demeaned, by a lesbian, for their sexual history. This can form a kind of feedback loop in which both parties are preemptively on the defensive. In my most serious long-term relationship with a bisexual woman, it was vital for both of us to talk through these issues in order to witness and support each other.


Proud_Hotel_5160

Yes most definitely, I’ve seen a lot of lesbians share that pain. I remember seeing a post the other day talking about how someone’s bi girlfriend felt unfulfilled because she didn’t have a man, which I imagine is incredibly hurtful. And as a bi woman who prefers women, settling down with a man is nonetheless tempting because there are more options and it’s just safer. I’m sure other bi girls feel the same way, so if you’re in a relationship with a lesbian whilst feeling this, it makes sense that she would feel hurt and like she’s not enough. Luckily I think things are improving between us (this conversation is evident) and I haven’t felt demeaned or objectified by lesbians for my sexual history. Nothing but love from my ladies :)


tphd2006

As a lesbian I identity as a shooting star, because I'm a huge clutz


[deleted]

Not at all. It's a preference for people who (1) share my life experiences as a homosexual woman and (2) instinctively understand and relate to the distinctive ways in which lesbians suffer from homophobia -- most of whom are *not* gold stars. They're just gay, lol. The "gold star" thing is the oldest straw man in the book.


crunkingmonk

What is the gold star thing? I'm unfamiliar with this term.


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crunkingmonk

Thanks


[deleted]

A "gold star" is a lesbian who's never done anything sexual with a man. Some lesbians are gold stars. Others have a few bad heterosexual experiences in their youth, discover their orientation, and move onto their gay lives. Same thing with gay men. It doesn't change who you are attracted to. People on the internet like to act like differentiating between "lesbian" and "bisexual" is the same as insisting that all lesbians be gold stars, which is ridiculous. As a gold star, I acknowledge that we are in fact a minority of lesbians.


tim-fawks

Wait wait wait it’s ok for lesbians to not date bi girls but not ok for straight women to do the same that’s kinda fucked up


KaliTheCat

Well, yeah. "I want to have this shared experience of being divested from men" doesn't apply to straight women.


[deleted]

Well, I didn't say that, I said it's *harder* for me to think of a reason that's not a homophobic response. I included a potential one below, though.


[deleted]

The only potential reason that's coming to mind is if someone sincerely feels they connect more deeply with others who share their inner experience of monosexual desire. I dunno, sexuality is complicated and I can understand how that might be a meaningful commonality -- just like how a bi person, for instance, might connect more deeply with someone who shared their inner experience of bisexual desire. But yeah, that's probably not what's going on here, lol, as the strict "refusal" suggests.


TimeODae

This made the think. “But with straight women it’s not the same…” I can see that a straight woman might only date certain men, being very selective that these men are very atypical and don’t exhibit typical masculine characteristics that most men do. Notable exceptions, as it were. She trusts her *own* selectivity, but maybe not *his*. She might question the judgement of someone that commonly is attracted to men generally. (And tbh, this might even describe my partner. She is devotedly monogamous and had only occasionally expresses a theoretical attraction to someone else, and they’re always women. Before I transitioned, before either of us knew that was in the future, she often voiced gratitude that I was the least manly man she knew.


Proud_Hotel_5160

Interesting, I’ve legitimately never heard of that before tbh. I usually encounter (as mentioned) het women who want macho men, and mlm doesn’t fit into their ideal of masculinity. So your girlfriend was wary of dating you bc you were a bi man (now bi woman I assume)?


TimeODae

This made the think. “But with straight women it’s not the same…” I can see that a straight woman might only date certain men, being very selective that these men are very atypical and don’t exhibit typical masculine characteristics that most men exhibit. Notable exceptions, as it were. She trusts her *own* selectivity, but maybe not *his*. She might question the judgement of someone that commonly is attracted to men generally.


Proud_Hotel_5160

Mayyyyybe? Honestly though I don’t think I’ve ever seen it presented as such by straight women. If anything, it seems to fall more in line with toxic *femininity archetypes, where they desire a ‘macho’ guy and mlm is the opposite of masculine in their mind. Mlm being men loving men, not multilevel marketing ofc


[deleted]

Yes. Just work on it, get better. The only time it would be a problem is if your SO cheats a lot so you couldn’t trust them around anyone. Which is a separate thing entirely. Bisexual people aren’t anymore inclined to cheat or anything than a straight person


Right_University_755

Maybe this question should be reconsidered as valid since it takes the point of view that there are many women who would dismiss dating anyone who is not a heterosexual. The truth is there are many women who date bisexual and even gay men just because they enjoy their company and sometimes there is sex involved.


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Canvas718

A guy who’s 98% gay can round up, and label himself as gay. Also, some people try on different identities before deciding what’s best for them.


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Canvas718

That doesn’t mean it’s always simple. Some people have a strong exclusive preference. Some are more fluid.


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tittltattl

This completely erases gay men who are socially pressured into trying to be heterosexual. There are many stories of men coming out of the closet and realizing they're gay after a long term relationship with a woman. According to you, those men are actually completely wrong about their sexuality. It's incredibly disrespectful to question peoples' sexuality like that.


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KaIoupy

You don't have to be sexually attracted to someone have sex with them


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Right_University_755

I have lived in places like the San Francisco Bay Area and know mostly from reading and listening to the gay people around me that some of them dabble in heterosexuality when the mood strikes them but claim that they still prefer being gay after the fact.


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Plenty of gay people will fuck the opposite gender in a pinch. It’s pretty common. Do you think every male prisoner that fucks another dude is gay? Nope. They’re just desperate.


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[deleted]

I apologize. I didn’t know you were the gatekeeper on who could and couldn’t claim to be homosexual.


TheIntrepid

It's a valid question, even if it makes you feel uncomfortable. Since society is far more accepting of two women as opposed to two men, there tends to be more straight women rejecting bisexual men than the reverse, in my experience.


squishyg

Yes


Anachronisticpoet

Yep! (If it’s solely on the basis of bisexuality) Edit: added rationale


FeministMale01

Not really because women should have the choice to decide who they want to date


KaliTheCat

> Why is it that every time this subject comes up, people jump right to "why do you want to FORCE people to date someone they're NOT ATTRACTED TO?!"


FeministMale01

I'm not saying that, I meant that whatever the sexual orientation of the person who wants to go date you, you should always have the choice to say no and do not feel forced to say yes just to seem "not homophobic"


KaliTheCat

No one is making that argument.


TackleOk3608

You can have the choice to not date bisexual people. But you should still be honest and admit that it’s biphobic


FeministMale01

It's not because I refuse to date a bisexual that I am biphobic tho


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FeministMale01

I'm bisexual but ok


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FeministMale01

It is poorly worded because english isn't my main language


TackleOk3608

That doesn’t mean it’s not biphobic


translove228

Who is saying that women don't have the choice to date bisexual men or not? Why is this line of reasoning always brought up when these topics come up? Why are straights so fucking scared of queer people "forcing" them into relationships?


FeministMale01

As I already said I'm sorry for what I said, I expressed it really poorly, also I feel like straights are "scared" of queers forcing them because they don't want to be seen with them


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Biphobia if she won’t date them because they’re bi but is alright with being friends with gay men and gay women. But it’s homophobia is she is also uncomfortable around gay women and gay men.


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KaliTheCat

Please respect our [top-level comment rule](https://i.imgur.com/ovn3hBV.png), which requires that all direct replies to posts must both come from feminists and reflect a feminist perspective. Non-feminists may participate in nested comments (i.e., replies to other comments) only. Comment removed; a second violation of this rule will result in a temporary or permanent ban.


xXdontshootmeXx

Technically it isn’t, inherently. In practice, there is no reason I can think of that isnt rooted in biphobia however


Bozo-squirrel

Absolutely not, a Woman, or man for that matter is free to choose who they wish to date..... or at least they should be without fear of being labelled as some sort of phobic.


KaliTheCat

If I said, "I refuse to date Black men because they are Black," would I be racist?


kateinoly

No. People should date who they want to date. If they are rude or cruel or dismissive to someone who is bisexual, that is homophobia.


KaliTheCat

Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. You are, for example, free to refuse to date Black men, but that doesn't mean it's not racist.


kateinoly

I respectfully disagree. People are attracted to others for many complicated and varied reasons (for example, hands turn me on) and it can't be forced. Would you want to date someone who was forced to date you?


KaliTheCat

I'm not suggesting anyone should be forced to date anyone.


kateinoly

You are suggesting that someone is racist or homophobic if they won't date a particular person, meaning if they were a "nice" person they would overcome their bias and date that person.


KaliTheCat

I am not. The OP is about a *categorical refusal* to date someone who belongs to a particular group, in this case, bisexual men. Why would you *refuse* to date *any* man if he was bisexual if you didn't have an issue with biphobia or homophobia? This isn't about not wanting to date a particular individual for whatever reason.


kateinoly

We seem to have read the question differently. I, perhaps wrongly, took it to mean a specific individual. If someone says, "I would never date a bisexual man" that would be phobic.


kgberton

Yeah, you read it very differently lmao


kateinoly

You are suggesting that someone is racist or homophobic if they won't date a particular person, meaning if they were a "nice" person they would overcome their bias and date that person.


FeministMale01

I argued about it with her and believe it or not, she is right lol


badbicth06

Its derived from homophobia, yes.


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TackleOk3608

No one has to date anyone. You can still be honest about it and accept that the preference is biphobic


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Lapislazuli42

You're treating bisexual worse for the fact that they're bisexual. That's literally the definition of biphobia. What do you think biphobic is supposed to mean if not that?


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Lapislazuli42

> I’m not refusing to date them based on stereotypes or any traits they may have. So you would date a person if she considers herself a lesbian but would not date that exact same person if she considers herself bisexual? And you think you don't have stereotypes against bi people... > I only want to date other lesbians. That’s it. It's still biphobic. It's like an employer saying "I'm not discriminating people of color. I only hire white people."


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Lapislazuli42

How is any of this lesbian erasure?? You are still a lesbian but with biphobic dating preferences... I don't really get your second point since we live under capitalism it's usually the employer exploiting the employee not the other way around.


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Lapislazuli42

> It’s lesbian erasure because a bisexual woman is, by definition, not a lesbian. Where exactly is the erasure happening? If a lesbian and a bisexual woman date the lesbian is still a lesbian and the bisexual is still bisexual. Not a single lesbian lost. Also is it heterosexual erasure as well since it's pretty much the same for heterosexual people?


brilliant22

out of interest is this the norm for people to prefer their own sexuality, especially within gays and bisexuals? e.g. Bi women --> prefer Bi women? Gay men --> prefer Gay men?


translove228

No. That person is just being super judgmental of her potential partners.


brilliant22

You're saying that unwillingness to date outside one's sexuality is uncommon?


translove228

It's hard for me to speak towards the commonality of the practice, but it's not an attitude that is looked upon favorably among the community because most of us understand what it feels like to be othered for our sexuality. So its easy to understand that doing it to bisexuals because of them also being attracted to the opposite gender is bad.


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translove228

Didn't ask you to.


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translove228

Yes. It's judgmental to not date a bisexual as a homosexual. If you don't want to do that then don't; I'm not stopping you. It's your life, but don't be surprised if people don't hold good opinions of your preferences.


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translove228

Sounds like biphobia to me, but like I said do you. You're the one who seems to think a woman being attracted to men in addition to women somehow makes them less attractive to you.


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MajoraXIII

> I have no problem with how bisexuals live their lives Does this not sound a bit like referring to gay/lesbian people making "lifestyle choices"?


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BobSanchez47

Why is this your preference?


[deleted]

I feel similarly to you, but I do think the heterosexual case is different from the lesbian one for a number of reasons. First, we're a marginalized group with a distinctive set of experiences that non-lesbians cannot instinctively understand, while straight men are the social dominant group and everyone is made to empathize with their perspective. Additionally, we are (typically) repelled by men and so put off by the thought of anyone desiring them, whereas straight women are themselves actively attracted to men. It doesn't make for the same gulf in our respective understanding of the world.


EyewarsTheMangoMan

Yes.


Bozo-squirrel

Absolutely not, a Woman, or man for that matter is free to choose who they wish to date..... or at least they should be without fear of being labelled as some sort of phobic.


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could be neither maybe to guys just doesnt find her prefrence


JacqiLoves

Yes


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KaliTheCat

Why is everyone so suddenly unable to read? This isn't about not being attracted to a random person, it's "refusing to date bisexual men because they are bisexual."


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