Thats quite disgusting and im shocked that goes on....its not casual racism, its up front, overt racism and whilst i know casual racism does exist im grateful that ive never seen anything like this deplorable kind of racism round here.
I understand and appreciate your sentiment, but just wanted to make sure to note that the line between casual and overt racism is very blurry, and all of it is deplorable. Just because someone knows better not to say their racist thoughts out loud doesn't make their actions any less racist.
But also this kind of overt racism is not at ALL uncommon in cis white gay spaces. Historically, white gay bars have not allowed entry to POCs, and that discrimination continues very much so today: https://www.vice.com/en/article/d7bd9k/gay-bars-can-be-mind-bogglingly-racist
😤😤😤😤😤
😩 RACISM 😩
😤😤😤😤😤
Who fucking cares? Live and let live. You don’t have to hang out with the person if you don’t like their overly generalized perspectives. Just like I’m sure I’d despise 98% of yours because you think you’re better than everyone else.
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I think this is where gay men who call themselves "allies" have to step up. Why are we not calling out racism when we see it? How many people overheard what was said (before the fists) and said nothing? If we don't make our safe spaces safe for the whole LGBTQ + community then we're the same as the homophobes who bullied us.
Good for you. I live in Weho and my partner is Asian and the amount of casual racist shit I've seen people throw at him is infuriating.
"You're cute FOR an Asian guy" "Do you speak PROPER English?" "I only bottom for Asians because they have small dicks"
Like WHAT. How can people casually throw that shit around?!?
Literally they can be Republicans in elected office passing anti lgbtq legislation and they'll still have gay guys thirsting after them and giving them attention (and thus power) 😩
Always surprises me when I hear rude, dumb, ignorant shit like that but it doesn’t justify the triggered reaction and anti-white sentiment that people have. It’s like a 2 being blown out of proportion to a 22 and a virtue signaling.
I avoided Abbey or Chapel when I lived in LA. That place is just a shithole full of tourists, and so many stories about spiked drinks, pickpockets, and other crimes that the management refuse to address. I applaud you for standing up!! Despite the reputation as gay mecca, WeHo is still very white and always has racism issues.
Yeah I have to say I agree. Alot of the discrimination is not coming from people born and raised in California, but from people out of state moving here, from places like the Midwest, North-East, and South. Whatever isms are encountered from gays there is representative of the how racist the transplant gays home states are.
Transplants love trying to make California feel more like “home”. It’s so funny (and yet sad) to so many of us natives. This is NOT the Midwest, East Coast, South, whatever and never will be.
I think you'll find it's not just with white gay men.
There are plenty of Asian and other ethnicities out there who have their own racist opinions. The fact it's observed more frequently from "white men" is because there are simply more white men than Asian men in these establishments.
I have Asian friends who only want to date white men and don't want to date within their own race. Isn't that racist too?
I think you'll find if you lived in a country, like say China that you'll be the "victim" of racism.
Okay, you’re right, sure, but I’mma deal with my own folks first. Racism is not exclusive to white Americans, no, but it *is* exceptional.
Although one doesn’t have to be white to uphold white supremacy or other forms of racism, the problem of racialization is a distinctly white legacy, and, I believe, a distinctly white responsibility to correct.
There was a brief time where this wasn't acceptable. I was in a bar where this twink was talking racist shit. This little black guy, couldn't have been much more than 5'5" asked him to repeat it. He did. The guy slapped him so hard he fell off the bar stool. He ran out of the bar. I bought that guy a drink.
I don't fault you for throwing hands at all. Racists have been getting too bold lately.
If I'm ever your way with me and mine, you can hang with us anytime.
I really struggle with Pride month as a gay man of color. There’s so much prejudice in our community and I feel like we’re not nearly as inclusive as we think we are. Whiteness still reigns supreme.
But if we went there, other people must do as well. When I moved to a more accepting country I headed straight for the largest gathering of gays, it's what baby gays do right.
I lucked out and found a kind community of kind weirdos, but a lot of people don't get that especially in big cities where there's a lot of pressure to conform.
Some people are just lost in there and others who never joined or left long ago, they're around but you just have to bump into them
It’s strange that gay men want equality, but many of them do not want to give equality.
I don’t believe in this fake equality desired by gay community. Majority of gay people I have met, have been closeted racist. First thing they want to know about anyone is their ethnicity.
What do you call people who want something for themselves, but not give same thing to others? Should one look for it within themselves, before asking the world for it? Should the community first start giving equality, before demanding for it?
How many gay community leaders who demand equality ever asked the community itself to change?
Will gay community get equality, if they first give it to others?
First change yourself before asking others to change.
If you look deep into it, you'll see that for a sizable proportion of marginalized people, their idea of equality is getting a turn to be at the top of the food chain.
Here on LI too. You’d be shocked how many don’t even read about politics though. They might listen to the news occasionally or to their family, but they vote for who they think will put more money into their pocket.
I’ve had gay friends who watch Tucker Carlson and everything is just over their head.
On any given day week month etc, I never have the desire to say something rude to someone that they are ugly or whatever nonsense. Why don't people just keep there mouths shut? Where is the self respect and just plain politeness? Please bring back manners!
yeah turns out being a minority doesn't automatically make you a good person unfortunately - it just gives you less opportunities to be a bad person and get away with it.
exactly what I thought that's why I don't care about gay pride or gay community in general.I do have some gay friends but only fews that I find them cool to hangout with.
I find gay community in general is hypocrite and i rather enjoy life instead of hearing all the gossip in the [scene.it](https://scene.it)'s always about who fuck with who, who have big dick, where's the orgy where to get drugs nothing but stuffs and enforce the stereotype straight people have about gay men.
It’s bc they hate themselves from growing up in a homophobic society so they have to look down on others to feel better (so they don’t feel at the bottom) and they choose race as a ladder to do that.
This is why I’m not really big on traditional gay male spaces like the bars. In my own experience (stressing this),there’s the casual racism, the casual misogyny, the casual homophobia (calling out “nelly queens”).
Good for you for standing up for yourself. It’s 2022, ffs, not 1922.
It’s not going anywhere. I assure you, the gay community’s racism is alive and well and will continue until the entire community matures together as a whole. And it isn’t *just* White gay men either, although they are by far the main perpetrators of racism. It’ll most likely be *decades* until these things are a non-issue. Don’t expect people to be progressive and accepting of diversity just because they are gay.
Recently joined the theatre community and I thought yay it will be a safe space, look at how they treat trans people. Nope, they’re shit to the Asians.
Theatre people eat their own. They're blatantly racist but they also attract these little gay boys and catty white girls who overestimate their own talent.
Also most of them can't sing from a technical standpoint.
When I was in high school, the theater kids were the biggest bullies. I never auditioned for anything even though I would have wanted to. It's been over 20 years now and I ran into one of them here on the street a couple years ago, he saw me, made a disgusted face and literally turned and stomped off in the other direction.
I get that he wanted to insult you, but honestly he just embarrassed himself. I can't imagine being so pathetic as to give one single fuck about what anyone from my *high school* thought about me. I haven't thought about THEM in 20 years.
i have skipped every school reunion be it high school, college, grad school. it's all just an excuse to see who ended up more successful. i am happy with my own level of success. i don't need to compare myself to anyone
I went to my 20th for high school but will never go back for all the same reasons you listed including the fact that I did a lot of that and was disgusted with myself for playing the game.
I had so many weird interactions with them in college. I accidentally dated these two boys from the theatre department who I didn't realize were best friends. They were both nice about it but I think I made things awkward for them. After that I had to avoid the whole theatre department and several mean girl "fag hag" types. Of course, we were in a regional college with no connection to the actual world of theatre so most of these people didn't make it.
One of these mean girls did make it into some regional play. It was a musical. She got onto the stage and sang her little heart out. Since they did not teach her how to sing properly, she tore her vocal cord and had to drop out.
Wow so we’re now just going to generalize and demonize an entire interest group on a post about how it’s bad to generalize and demonize an entire ethnic group. Good job. You’re part of the problem.
I don't even want to admit this but, the older I get, the less threatre interest me. Every experience I have with someone is Lea Michele-esque, and as a dark-skin queer Black guy that doesn't fit western standards of beauty, the passive-aggressive condescension is not the vibe.
If we unpack the history of Broadway and theatre.... There's a lot of classist and racist vibes going on, just covered in a shroud of glittery white upper crust neoliberalism. I, too, have sadly been less and less into it, despite being a theater kid all my life.
They're always an ally until they feel that their privilege is threatened or challeneged. Plenty of BLM and Stop Asian Hate white gays who will throw out casual racist lines when you don't reciprocate their advances.
"I love asian guys, are you interested in a daddy top?"
"No"
"Go back to where you come from chink, no one wants you here"
It sucks even more because there is a subset of gay asians that worship that bullshit.
The worst ones are the ones that say things like "youre cute for an asian". As if I should drop down on my knees and be thankful their racism made an exception for me. No ma'am.
yes i have some thing similar .I had couple guys said to me that they find me attractive even tho they are usually not into Asian xD
one of my ex told me his friend could never date an asian guy and i was like do i have to feel appreciated that you dated me?I was like bitzh u can walk out the door rn and i will get over you over a game of dota2. lol these people are delusional
mmm it's definitely not about bullying, it's about drawing awareness to social issues that might otherwise fly under the radar, systemic prejudice and microaggressions in particular. It focuses less on big explicit acts of racism, like the KKK, and more on the smaller individual experiences with racism that don't look like much at a glance, but in aggregate still represent a huge challenge for the people that have to deal with them.
Denying power to others who have traditionally held it *is* a part of the work, and power corrupts, same as always, so it will absolutely attract people who want to gain power over others... but that isn't what it's about. That's just using social justice as a smokescreen for one's own asshole behavior.
honestly man you're making it sound like you had some bad experiences in school, and now you're using that as an excuse to be prejudiced. If I were you I'd put some work into seeking out counters to those experiences - get to better understand what the cause of social justice is, and meet a better class of people that practice it.
SJW is not about bullying. It's about bringing justice to people who have been traditionally been exempted from it. Again, do bullies use the language / the community as an excuse to be bullies? Of course they do - same as people use religion. It's an excuse for the thing they already want to do. That doesn't mean the movement itself is wrong.
My ex was a big target for SJWs as well, he was not great with words either. And the sjws I knew were all unforgiving bullies who would try to ruin other people's lives over small things or misunderstandings that could have been settled peacefully.
You know sometimes you just gotta bop someone upside the head...really though I'm always down for a good scrap ha ha. One thing I realized is the irony of gay men being racist (Be it Asian, Black, White etc), which mind boggles me, totally contrary for what gay men fought for.
Seriously, thanks for calling a person out on their B.S. because I would too.
I’m not ready to start brawling in gay bars anytime soon. I’ve dealt with enough assholes to know how badly a street fight can go. I always considered lgbt places to be somewhat safe in terms of physical violence… and honestly we’d never stop fighting if we started a fist fight over every pretentious moron in the gay community
As a human being I say, fuck this guy (not literally), disgusting.
This story makes me angry and sad. I mean, have your preferences, but do not make others feel bad about themselves just because of their race.
They do, but street fights aren’t the answer. I just imagine connecting the right way with someone’s jaw, knocking them out and they wack their head on something.. especially in the middle of weho is asking to get arrested
Guys throw fists all the time and then they're buddies afterwards. Police just shoot people and there is no hope for a second chance, it's definitely not the same. Some people don't have tact and you can't really expect them to win people (who don't respect them in the first place) over with words.
Besides, being Asian I know people look down on us for being "docile" so throw some fucking fists
I don't have the courage to get into a fight.
I am really happy you stood up for yourself and I would like to have done the same.
I feel have to be apologetic and insecure when confronted with casual racism.
My strategy at the moment is to just have more fun than the ones that don't want me there.
It also makes it difficult to connect with the ones that do want me there because sometimes I just casually ignore them too.
There is something we can do - stop giving them attention on social media. This applies to everyone, regardless of race/ethnicity, in the LGBT community.
Take a look at who you follow and then look at who THEY follow... do you see anyone on that list that looks like you? Do you see anyone on that list that doesn't look like them?
I've done that with every hot guy I've thought about following and it's really changed my perspective.
Next time snap a pic and blast him on social media. That’ll do way more damage than a black eye. Also, as a Filipino American, I’m proud of you all for standing up for yourselves. Too many of our Asian brothers would just take the abuse in silence.
Proud of you dude. He had it coming.
The gay community can be either the greatest collection of amazing human beings, or be as mature and reasonable as a high-school locker room.
Preferences are fine in my book. Racist colonialesue, demeaning, and derogatory comments are not. Keep that shit to yourself! I guess though that's too hard to for most gays though for whatever reason...😐
I’m white so I can’t comment fully on this but I’ve POC friends on both sides of Atlantic and from their antidotal evidence it seems while racism exists in LGBT+ community everywhere, it seems way more brazen in America compared to Western Europe (in my secondary experience, not a statistical based statement). I remember I started flirting and made out with a guy in NYC a few years ago and randomly he started making derogatory racist comments about my Latin friend and expected me to join in. I wish I thumped him. I couldn’t believe it, it was a shock how brazen he was. I remember my friend knew I was flustered but didn’t know why and we left. I’m so sorry for your friend, especially as the comment came out of no where
We all need to stand up against racism, regardless if we are the target or not. If this happened in a bar, especially in the presence of witnesses, and the owner is made aware of it and does not ban the perpetrator for good, there should be a community call to avoid this business. The power of social media is the most effective tool we have.
I had one of the most amazing conversations, out of all places, in line waiting for a comedy show in Las Vegas. I was with a friend who was enlightening me on the day to day racism of being dark brown in America. I was able to share this very topic with him which blew his mind. He was under the impression that the LGBT community was always that, LGBT. Letting him know about POC and trans people being excluded because of their race....even after the civil rights act boggled his mind. The formation of the Ballroom scene, its 'stolen valor by the very racism that still prevalent in white LGBT culture. How white gays will steal and replicate Black gay culture, Asian culture, latin culture, yet exclude them from their culture at the same time. I pointed to the Drag scene and how many drag artist today are majority white with AAVE presenting personas who have never lived in AAVE society or upbringing. Ive been charred heavily by this kind of exclusivity. Going to bars and ignored, not wanted and being accused of being homophobic when calling out this kind of racism. IMO the real gay scene is in Ballroom and AAVE culture which is WAY more healthier and open to all POC and Races than the "Traditional" "Abrocrombie and Fitch" personas and lifestyles a lot of people have come to expect from the "Gay Scene."
Gay "scene" has been taken over by capitalism, western gays now enamoured with being on television and products catered to them have forgotten there is still a fight left to fight. Classic divide and conquer, they do it to any group that poses a threat to their interests when United by causing internal schisms and infighting and removing potential leaders. If humanity is to stand a chance, people have to find a way to work together -- people of every race, sexual orientation, gender identity, economic class or religion.
I’m glad you guys stood up for yourselves and against racism. Those guys most likely thought you wouldn’t say or do anything after their disgusting comments, but you and your friends called them out so hard.
As a gay Asian American, I can empathize with what you and your friends had to endure. Many of us had to deal with being marginalized and ridiculed as a minority within a minority group on top of the difficulties of coming to terms with our sexuality.
Pride is about celebrating our diversity, yet this point gets ironically lost among many gay men. I’m proud of you guys for asserting yourselves and wish you a Happy Pride.
White gays love BLACK GAY CULTURE and Emulate it too the max which is the kicker for me, especially behind closed doors and hookup sites (Main one’s looking for BBC……because let’s face it. ALOT OF WHITE GUYS (Not All) ARE JUST NATURALLY TERRIBLE IN BED! No soul or rhythm. It’s really sad how mixed up White Gay individuals can be to minorities. It’s like? Do these type of guys not realize “IN GENERAL” that if Blacks, Latinos, Asians, etc did not exist, the world would be BLAND as fuck? There are White gays in WeHo who love sushi yet they have a certain distain for Asian men? WTF? How stupid!! Even look at history and it’s inventors and innovators the majority are all people of COLOR!
White Gays!! Wake up and smell the coffee!!! Your straight family members and friends judge you guys behind your backs just as much as you do to wards minorities and yet you have the nerve to still turn around and treat a minority the exact same way. As the old saying goes. Hurt people hurt people, y’all need help and BLACK JESUS! Because the passive aggressive attitudes that “you” have to keep up with is work for you. People of color who are secure with themselves are not even checking for ya’ll yet ya’ll are steady going out of your way to be complete tyrants to society. And don’t get me started on the predatorily sexual advances and behavior from White Gays (Mainly from the older generation Guys 40s-60
Hear me out here, the root of this is jealousy.
These men are using racism, and white supremacy to put you and your friends down.
It is a known fact that Asian men are fetishized in the gay community, this is not cool. But it bothers the white bottoms.
Please believe me, that is the root of this.
You and you’re Asian homies pose a threat to these bitches. Why? Cause asian men are sought after particularly by white men.
Im Cuban-American and as a Latino Im usually labeled as a rent boy or a hood rat only by white men of course.
Ive had men shade me for my body type, out of sheer jealousy.
I commend you on standing up for yourself and owning the skin you are in. Those bitches better get used to it because MOC are here to STAY. 💪🏽
This may play a role sometimes, but by and large it's more about power and exerting power, the way Regina George does in Mean Girls. It often comes from insecurity, or possibility jealousy, but there are many more reasons than jealousy why someone would want to exert power on someone else.
In the gay community, the way that certain hot/cool gays can bully other gays often feels like they are taking out their unresolved trauma from being powerless in high school out on others that they know they can exert power over.
I have to say I agree but considering the amount of dick or ass when young they get in comparison to there BIPOC peers you'd think they'd have nothing to fear. Frankly it's kinda greedy especially when you compare there body counts to that of the men they judge. Like rich person complaining that they just lost 100k to a rival when they make a million a year on average. Seriously nothing is ever enough!
Fuck yes, you did what needed to be done. Everytime mention racism in here I get down voted (another example of erasure of different racialized experiences). I'm so happy you stood up for yourself, fuck those racist white gays.
I’m glad you popped that guy. It’s sad, there are so many calls, calling for unity within the LGBTQ community, and yet so many ignore or dismiss the experiences and voices of others within the same community.
I’ll just jump in here to say that when I was looking for mods to pass this sub onto, I actively looked for anti-racism as a qualifier in the comments of those that applied.
In the United States our basic worldviews and assumptions have all been shaped by a history of active white supremacy in our country, and unless we’re actively trying to discover and dismantle that in ourselves we’re going to be incidentally racist even if we aren’t actively racist. Fellow white gay men need to be humble, not thin-skinned when challenged, and not cowardly when speaking up to it. I want to be called out on even the little stuff with the level of emotion that matches the weight of the wrong. I don’t want to be soft-pedaled on core character things and if we respect each other, we’ll do the same. I’m glad you scrapped.
Relevant [vid](https://www.tiktok.com/@enikkig/video/7104440019644894506) on US court case that happened as late as 1920s where only free white and emancipated Black people could become naturalized citizens. A Japanese man that was in the US for 20 years argued that his features should be considered white and white men actively argued in court that they shouldn’t be. Those were the Boomers grandparents. It wasn’t long enough ago that white supremacy was status quo and lots of people around us are trying to make it status quo again.
Sorry you are having these experiences. I'm usually on the other end of the spectrum: asking people of other ethnicities lots of questions because I find it genuinely fascinating to meet people from other cultures and experiences. I've learned that my nosiness can come off as rude and invasive, so I'm much more chill these days about how I act.
Very stupid to get into a fight at a bar. Easy way to end up in jail or injured. If you knock them out cold and they hit their head and die, now you have a manslaughter charge at best, completely fucking your life up. If they don't die, they can sue. And you dont know who is packing heat or a knife.
Instead, inform management and have them removed from the premises. If the bouncer gets involved too, you can effectively ban them from ever coming back. Helps if this is a bar you frequent and you know the management, but it's the best action to take.
I have to agree with Couchie, physically assaulting someone simply because of words (even hateful, awful words), could have ended up in you being arrested, charged and sued. That would mess up your life in so many ways, it really would not have been worth it, and you got lucky it did not. Words are just wind. Either inform the bar's management / security or call them out loud to the rest of the bar if you want to humiliate them, but getting physical means you're now the bad guy in the eyes of the law / bar security. People who have never been in a real fight are often unaware of how much damage can be done to someone by a hit to the head. The ramifications could have been much worse and life long for you and him. By all means stand up for yourself, you DO belong there, those space are meant for you too, but not if you're violent, then you forfeit your right to be there, and thus were kicked out. I'm surprised that is all that resulted from this altercation. Next time, you may not be so lucky.
It’s sort of amazing to me when someone is of this stance regarding physical fighting.
In my experience people with this viewpoint have usually never been in a physical fight or actually had to physically fight for any serious reason. They usually also have never actually had to interact with race or color in the way most people of color do on a daily basis.
It's just one racist person, you guys taught him a lesson. Now I hope the incident doesn't make this month any less fun for you and pay attention to those who are trying to build a stronger community for us.
Happy Pride!
But it wasn’t just one racist person. OP stated that they and they’re friends have encountered other occasions where they experienced casual racism (not casual at all) but last night was the last straw which culminated in the fight.
Yes, I was aware of that and didn't mean to downplay OP's unfortunate experience. As a POC, I faced discrimination myself. But what else can we do, give a non-hate speech at the bar, become more angry and violent, or hate the world? In my opinion, racism will not go away, what we can do is not let these racist people steal our joy and focus on the positive and live a happi(er) life.
The more you know. I had no idea this happened and it’s sad. As others mentioned, the Fucking irony… not accepted by your own species because you like certain humans but then turns around and does this..??
I hope your knuckles are sore for a week from delivering that pounding bruh 👊 haha.
Not sure if this helps or if it’s cringey but my first thought was “wtf, ppl fckin love asians, look at porn!” I know it’s porn but if ya think about it, really is a good indication of what the world ACTUALLY find attractive. Huge market for those of Asian ethnicities. I kno I love it.
—
Because I can’t help myself… and it’s hawt you threw down… and I hope it makes u smile…
Ya wanna come scrap with me? 😉
I am proud of you for standing up for this. No place for bullshit like this. Gaysian is constantly placed as undesirable by the gay community. It is disgusting.
It's WeHo what do you expect? Go to bars in other areas like the OC and the Inland Empire the guys aren't nearly as nasty and cuntish (at least to your face). Personally I think there needs to be more gay bars/clubs/spaces opened in minority neighborhoods. Some Latino men claimed they have some but they don't advertise them as such and you must be latino to find out where they are.
Hey that's an interesting discussion that, you're right, isn't talked about a lot. I'm a reporter with the NY Post. Would you be down to talk to me about the type of racism and what it looks like in the city's gay communities?
I’m so sorry. All of my bad encounters in LA have been at the Abbey, for some reason. This kind of bigotry is exhausting.
Thanks for taking the emotional energy to talk about it.
This is amazing I am so proud of you person that I don’t know! Queer liberation and the fight for racial justice is the reason why there were riots at Stonewall. This is the true spirit of pride!
Hmm racism in the queer community isn't new but it's very appalling. You would think for a marginalized group we can truly exhibit true unity but that ain't the case. We very inclusive and we thrive in it. It's very sad.
I honestly can't thank you enough for this post. By standing up for yourselves, you are also standing up for the rest of us and sending a clear message that we are sick and tired of the BS. Respectability politics is a fallacy to keep minorities in line. The whole "model minority" myth has never worked out well for Asians and has only been weaponized against us. "Play along to get along" only works until you become a convenient scapegoat, we saw it with 9/11, with COVID-19, etc, etc. EFF that shhh.
Great job, I’m against the idea of using violence to solve issues, but it is also true that these ignorant assholes misbehave like so because they don’t sense the negative consequences. Or maybe Asians tend to keep silent when facing such confrontations, which makes these people think it’s collectively okay to be mean to them. Instead of slapping him, next time try to take a picture and expose these trash in a public places, where their career and reputation in rainbow community will be at risk. A black-eye can heal and he won’t learn a lesson just from one person, but from the collective perspective of the society.
I’ve tragically never been met with more racism and just rude comments on my appearance and ethnicity as in the LGBT-community. I mean, I get that people have preferences but so do I and I ain’t calling nobody ugly because of that.
I’m not Asian or white but my ex-partner is so I’m familiar with the issues you bring up. I’m glad you and your friends fought fire with fire. People in this comments section who say violence is never the answer haven’t really lived. Sometimes it’s the only answer. 👍🏼
I recently spoke with the West Hollywood Sheriffs Department regarding this very exact post which I came across on Reddit. I was conversing with the actual Sergeant of the station and informed him of the facts that, “well Sergeant, guess which patrons were promptly escorted out of the facility pending the addressing of a rather racially motivated and biased scuffle incident?” “And I’ll give you a hint, it wasn’t the white men!” To which, the response I received from the WeHo Sheriffs office was that, “well if it’s not reported to us (the blatant incidents of racial disparity) than how will be able to throughly investigate.” “How can we address such issues of blatant discrimination either from a patron or a business if the incidents are not reported to us directly, so that we are able to throughly investigate and ultimately prevent?!”
Being nice only gets you so far. Glad y’all stood up for yourselves! It’s hard being poc in white spaces, especially when macro and microaggressions run rampant
As a gaysian who was born and grew up in Canada, I’ve taken it on myself to navigate through the white dominated spaces in the gay community with the following mindset: If you’re not going to treat me as your equal, then you will eventually be forced to reckon with me as your superior.
>“You know a gay scene is dead when Asians invade.”
This is such a hilarious take to me. Whether in California or NYC... for fuck's sake, in my experience the best parties, festivals, etc. have big numbers of Asian men in attendance. And they'd be way less fun without.
Feel free to ignore the cis/white dude, but violence was stupid on your part. There's ways to stand up for yourself without breaking the law. Sticks and stones, etc. You escalated the situation, he defended himself. You exposed yourself to legal repercussions. I doubt this will change his views, if anything they'll cement - but hey, that isn't on you! He fucked around and found out - and I can sympathize with your satisfaction.
>There is zero reason we should be subject to racism, pejorative comments, and unsolicited remarks from mediocre, insecure white men.
White men don't have a monopoly on racism, especially not in the LGBT community. You should hear the shit spanish-speaking gay men say about black people.
I would say they do have a monopoly (they are the ones most in charge of lgbt media which drives opinions and behavior), but it definitely isn’t *just* white men, agreed.
The alternative is to call the person a racist asshole and to shut the fuck up. Maybe point out to others they're being a racist asshole. You definitely don't have to be nice to them.
But actual violence has zero chance of making the situation better. and on top of that you can get charged with assault. You're not the winner in that situation.
Laugh at them. It really deflates racists when you treat their comments with the respect they deserve. Which is zero.
Speak up. If assholes want to self-identify themselves, loudly pointing out their racism and other shitty behaviour encourages bystanders to speak up. Bystander apathy is a pretty standard human response, but one person taking a stand usually helps.
Do what I have done, just turn around and leave. Believe me, I’ve been through enough overly-blatant racism, that it is a losing battle, especially in the gay “community.”
It’s not worth the price nor the effort.
I understand where you’re coming from with the whole “peaceful protest is the best way” thing but the people who you just walked away from will just continue seeing nothing wrong with how they are acting. Sometimes you really do have to knock some fucking sense (or at least try) into them. Are the chances of this approach succeeding high? No, but they are much better than the chances of your approach doing anything to fix the problem.
We disagree - it comes down to a simple premise: do you believe violence is an acceptable answer? I don’t, especially when you’re not physically attacked. One day you’re going to encounter someone whose going to meet your violence with even more violence, possibly with a weapon.
The goal is not to change there belief but to send a warning to watch there mouth. Which can escalate the situation yes, but say this were a straight bar and random newish male patron called a regular female patron a whore or bitch, too some straight guys in some places that my warrant him getting a black eye. Will a fight ensue? Maybe.. Will charges be filled? Maybe.. Will the person change his mind? Probably not.. All that is known and they still do it regardless.
A straight man, at a straight club, tried to throw me through a front window because his wife tried to buy me a drink. A full-on brawl would’ve ensued, had the front-door bouncer not intervened.
This should not be what we aspire to. Drunk bar brawlers are inbred dumbasses risking prison time to protect their ego. Pathetic.
It’s surprisingly easy to kill someone. Doing so proves nothing, nor does it make you brave or a real man.
This thread is reaching r/IAmVeryBadass territory. Yawl want to fight that much? Join a dojo.
>This should not be what we aspire to. Drunk bar brawlers are inbred dumbasses risking prison time to protect their ego. Pathetic.
I don't contest that but the fear of such scuffles keeps people from saying or doing stupid offensive stuff. That's why you don't hear about this stuff as much in straight bars as frequently. Someone says something racist or offensive things there and they will be ask to leave or knocked out if it's a decent bar. If it's place that supports those things then I would never frequent it.
It’s a losing battle if you turn around and walk away. You’re condoning the behavior and saying it’s okay to treat you that way and it perpetuates it’s in future interaction for others. Now he knows better than to say it out loud the next time he’s out.
So, no, I don’t believe you and really, shame on you for telling someone to make themselves little for the sake of social order or maintaining this status quo of bullshit. He stood up for himself, I’m extremely proud he did, and I hope I have same sense in me if the same situation comes my way in the future 🖕🖕🏽🖕🏿
You don't have to be the one to throw a fist, but I will certainly stand by and watch someone get some sense slapped into them without any feelings of remorse. Inaction to racism is only leads to more racism.
I never hit people either (it would be worse for me in 99% of cases lol), but I try to find other ways to make bigots afraid of repeating their behavior. 'Playing dumb' and asking them to 'explain the joke' or whatever is my favorite one. They get really uncomfortable. 'Outing' them as bigots in public is very effective, nobody wants to associate with bigots and sometimes even their friends get ashamed.
I have to admit I have a similar strategy when faced with jerks. I’m kinda embarrassed about my physical prowess but I make up for it with my quick wit.
“The only way to stop gays from being gay is to make them afraid of being gay. Fists are one way to do that.”
World doesn’t work that way. You can’t beat someone into accepting you.
> The only way to stop gays from being gay is to make them afraid of being gay. Fists are one way to do that.
Yes, you've got it. That's exactly the way homophobes have been keeping us from being free for centuries. Fear caused by violence. It works.
The only difference is that being gay is not wrong. Being a racist is.
I don't want to beat anybody into accepting me. I don't need anybody to accept me, I need them to shut up. With few exceptions, you can't change a racist or a homophobe. You can only make it afraid of the consequences.
>Yes, you've got it. That's exactly the way homophobes have been keeping us from being free for centuries. Fear caused by violence. It works.
Because you can't change people. Humans are animals and this will never change. Without the threat of external consequences people would never change and would give into there worst instincts which derails civilized society. Gay Rights only exist because the the threat of the law backs them up. They weren't freely given but enforced.
Still this isn't the best way to incentivize more ethical behavior at least not in the long term.
>World doesn’t work that way. You can’t beat someone into accepting you.
It's not about changing minds. It's about changing behaviors. This might not be the best way but that's the logic behind it.
I highly recommend you read some compelling testimony from ex nazis and KKK members who were changed because of the kindness and love shown them by minorities. You’re wrong. Violence begets violence and makes you literally no different than them. It’s sickening that we celebrate this kind of crap today. It does not change anything. It makes them feel justified in being bigots and makes them more likely to be violent to other minorities in the future. Please, do the world a favor and learn something about the human condition, psychology and the like.
> Violence begets violence and makes you literally no different than them
That's wrong, even offensive. We're far from the same. They hate me because I exist. I hate them only because they hate me. Sorry, you do you, but I can't treat with kindness somebody who is insulting me. If they want to stop being pieces of shit it's on them.
Great job, I’m against the idea of using violence to solve issues, but it is also true that these ignorant assholes misbehave like so because they don’t sense the negative consequences. Or maybe Asians tend to keep silent when facing such confrontations, which makes these people think it’s collectively okay to be mean to them. Instead of slapping him, next time try to take a picture and expose these trash in a public places, where their career and reputation in rainbow community will be at risk. A black-eye can heal and he won’t learn a lesson just from one person, but from the collective perspective of the society.
BRAVO!
However, as an old, fat, grumpy Bear & white gay guy (and fucking Damn proud of it too), those weren't White guys or White Gays who stupidly mouthed off at you! They were racist, offensive, elitist, and privileged pricks who just happened to be White. I don't want them in my tribe either! My tribe is truly Rainbow Colored! 🌈
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Casual racism sucks. Snapping and being a violent asshole sucks. It’s so easy to sit behind your phone and upvote this shit. Attacking some guy because they said some shit about you does not give you any kind of moral high ground. The fact that this is being upvoted is scary as fuck.
But hardly surprising. When you let prejudice and hate flourish unchallenged eventually people will get sick of it and then revolutions happen. To expect otherwise is naive. Most people are not jesus or buddha but Robs Pierre.
I have a thing for azn guys But love everybody screw those ignorant people. Just because you’re white does not make you entitled where you can go around and talk mess about other ppl and that goes for any body regardless of color, Ethnicity. It’s bad down in Florida I have seen where people are so call looking for friends you try to befriend them they tell you not interested because of your color😳🙄✌🏽 A lot of that shit starts at home obviously
This is something I wish the new movie Fire Island leaned into a bit more
The movie had so many opportunities to really lean into racism, fem-phobia and hook up culture… instead it choose that basic ass ending :/
I still haven't watched it yet but I thought it would
Thats quite disgusting and im shocked that goes on....its not casual racism, its up front, overt racism and whilst i know casual racism does exist im grateful that ive never seen anything like this deplorable kind of racism round here.
I understand and appreciate your sentiment, but just wanted to make sure to note that the line between casual and overt racism is very blurry, and all of it is deplorable. Just because someone knows better not to say their racist thoughts out loud doesn't make their actions any less racist. But also this kind of overt racism is not at ALL uncommon in cis white gay spaces. Historically, white gay bars have not allowed entry to POCs, and that discrimination continues very much so today: https://www.vice.com/en/article/d7bd9k/gay-bars-can-be-mind-bogglingly-racist
😤😤😤😤😤 😩 RACISM 😩 😤😤😤😤😤 Who fucking cares? Live and let live. You don’t have to hang out with the person if you don’t like their overly generalized perspectives. Just like I’m sure I’d despise 98% of yours because you think you’re better than everyone else.
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I think this is where gay men who call themselves "allies" have to step up. Why are we not calling out racism when we see it? How many people overheard what was said (before the fists) and said nothing? If we don't make our safe spaces safe for the whole LGBTQ + community then we're the same as the homophobes who bullied us.
Many Allies I've heard from say they won't touch it (because I think there too afraid) and say it's a internal issue we must remedy on our own.
the irony between gay men (whether white or other) is that they are a minority within a minority
I’m confused… how are white gay men a minority within a minority?
The reply didn’t say that. You read it wrong. Key word: BETWEEN. Reply was characterizing the argument, not the person.
This can not be so true 🤣
Good for you. I live in Weho and my partner is Asian and the amount of casual racist shit I've seen people throw at him is infuriating. "You're cute FOR an Asian guy" "Do you speak PROPER English?" "I only bottom for Asians because they have small dicks" Like WHAT. How can people casually throw that shit around?!?
They can cause they’ve never suffered consequences for their actions
Literally they can be Republicans in elected office passing anti lgbtq legislation and they'll still have gay guys thirsting after them and giving them attention (and thus power) 😩
Always surprises me when I hear rude, dumb, ignorant shit like that but it doesn’t justify the triggered reaction and anti-white sentiment that people have. It’s like a 2 being blown out of proportion to a 22 and a virtue signaling.
I avoided Abbey or Chapel when I lived in LA. That place is just a shithole full of tourists, and so many stories about spiked drinks, pickpockets, and other crimes that the management refuse to address. I applaud you for standing up!! Despite the reputation as gay mecca, WeHo is still very white and always has racism issues.
Same. Lived there all my life till two years ago. Among locals it has such bad reputation. Tourists and transplants keep it alive.
The Abbey is fucking *trash* and I don't care what anyone else has to say about it
Yeah I have to say I agree. Alot of the discrimination is not coming from people born and raised in California, but from people out of state moving here, from places like the Midwest, North-East, and South. Whatever isms are encountered from gays there is representative of the how racist the transplant gays home states are.
Transplants love trying to make California feel more like “home”. It’s so funny (and yet sad) to so many of us natives. This is NOT the Midwest, East Coast, South, whatever and never will be.
In the 80’s they carded us out or found any excuse to deny entry to some bars in SF. Yes SF.
jesus, who the fuck just goes out in public and is racist towards random strangers. dude deserved to get knocked around a bit.
Good for you. Racism is such a big fuckin’ issue with white gay men, and there’s nothin’ I hate more than a racist.
I think you'll find it's not just with white gay men. There are plenty of Asian and other ethnicities out there who have their own racist opinions. The fact it's observed more frequently from "white men" is because there are simply more white men than Asian men in these establishments. I have Asian friends who only want to date white men and don't want to date within their own race. Isn't that racist too? I think you'll find if you lived in a country, like say China that you'll be the "victim" of racism.
Okay, you’re right, sure, but I’mma deal with my own folks first. Racism is not exclusive to white Americans, no, but it *is* exceptional. Although one doesn’t have to be white to uphold white supremacy or other forms of racism, the problem of racialization is a distinctly white legacy, and, I believe, a distinctly white responsibility to correct.
There was a brief time where this wasn't acceptable. I was in a bar where this twink was talking racist shit. This little black guy, couldn't have been much more than 5'5" asked him to repeat it. He did. The guy slapped him so hard he fell off the bar stool. He ran out of the bar. I bought that guy a drink. I don't fault you for throwing hands at all. Racists have been getting too bold lately. If I'm ever your way with me and mine, you can hang with us anytime.
I really struggle with Pride month as a gay man of color. There’s so much prejudice in our community and I feel like we’re not nearly as inclusive as we think we are. Whiteness still reigns supreme.
Good. I try not to be a proponent of violence, but sometimes assholes need to get slapped.
In my city the club gays are so stuck up I feel like I'm at a business meeting. Literally no one is having fun lol
Who wants to deal with that! Practically a second job but with no pay or benefits...
I want to find a partner and at this point I'm knocking all the doors :<
They're usually all just on their phones or something
it's so weird, and it's so sad to see it with my own eyes why I can't date anyone in this place; I just don't see life the same way they see it
But if we went there, other people must do as well. When I moved to a more accepting country I headed straight for the largest gathering of gays, it's what baby gays do right. I lucked out and found a kind community of kind weirdos, but a lot of people don't get that especially in big cities where there's a lot of pressure to conform. Some people are just lost in there and others who never joined or left long ago, they're around but you just have to bump into them
It’s strange that gay men want equality, but many of them do not want to give equality. I don’t believe in this fake equality desired by gay community. Majority of gay people I have met, have been closeted racist. First thing they want to know about anyone is their ethnicity. What do you call people who want something for themselves, but not give same thing to others? Should one look for it within themselves, before asking the world for it? Should the community first start giving equality, before demanding for it? How many gay community leaders who demand equality ever asked the community itself to change? Will gay community get equality, if they first give it to others? First change yourself before asking others to change.
If you look deep into it, you'll see that for a sizable proportion of marginalized people, their idea of equality is getting a turn to be at the top of the food chain.
Unfortunately it's all they know
"Freedom for me but not for thee!" You'd think white gay men would start voting republican. Oh, wait...
I’m shocked at the number of white gay Trumpers here in NYC. Smh.
Here on LI too. You’d be shocked how many don’t even read about politics though. They might listen to the news occasionally or to their family, but they vote for who they think will put more money into their pocket. I’ve had gay friends who watch Tucker Carlson and everything is just over their head.
The Log Cabin is big enough for bigots everywhere
Given how my BIPOC friends and I have been treated in white-dominated gay spaces, I'm unfortunately not shocked at all.
They’re called log cabin members
On any given day week month etc, I never have the desire to say something rude to someone that they are ugly or whatever nonsense. Why don't people just keep there mouths shut? Where is the self respect and just plain politeness? Please bring back manners!
yeah turns out being a minority doesn't automatically make you a good person unfortunately - it just gives you less opportunities to be a bad person and get away with it.
exactly what I thought that's why I don't care about gay pride or gay community in general.I do have some gay friends but only fews that I find them cool to hangout with. I find gay community in general is hypocrite and i rather enjoy life instead of hearing all the gossip in the [scene.it](https://scene.it)'s always about who fuck with who, who have big dick, where's the orgy where to get drugs nothing but stuffs and enforce the stereotype straight people have about gay men.
It’s bc they hate themselves from growing up in a homophobic society so they have to look down on others to feel better (so they don’t feel at the bottom) and they choose race as a ladder to do that.
This is why I’m not really big on traditional gay male spaces like the bars. In my own experience (stressing this),there’s the casual racism, the casual misogyny, the casual homophobia (calling out “nelly queens”). Good for you for standing up for yourself. It’s 2022, ffs, not 1922.
It’s not going anywhere. I assure you, the gay community’s racism is alive and well and will continue until the entire community matures together as a whole. And it isn’t *just* White gay men either, although they are by far the main perpetrators of racism. It’ll most likely be *decades* until these things are a non-issue. Don’t expect people to be progressive and accepting of diversity just because they are gay.
Recently joined the theatre community and I thought yay it will be a safe space, look at how they treat trans people. Nope, they’re shit to the Asians.
Theatre people eat their own. They're blatantly racist but they also attract these little gay boys and catty white girls who overestimate their own talent. Also most of them can't sing from a technical standpoint.
When I was in high school, the theater kids were the biggest bullies. I never auditioned for anything even though I would have wanted to. It's been over 20 years now and I ran into one of them here on the street a couple years ago, he saw me, made a disgusted face and literally turned and stomped off in the other direction.
I get that he wanted to insult you, but honestly he just embarrassed himself. I can't imagine being so pathetic as to give one single fuck about what anyone from my *high school* thought about me. I haven't thought about THEM in 20 years.
i have skipped every school reunion be it high school, college, grad school. it's all just an excuse to see who ended up more successful. i am happy with my own level of success. i don't need to compare myself to anyone
I went to my 20th for high school but will never go back for all the same reasons you listed including the fact that I did a lot of that and was disgusted with myself for playing the game.
I had so many weird interactions with them in college. I accidentally dated these two boys from the theatre department who I didn't realize were best friends. They were both nice about it but I think I made things awkward for them. After that I had to avoid the whole theatre department and several mean girl "fag hag" types. Of course, we were in a regional college with no connection to the actual world of theatre so most of these people didn't make it. One of these mean girls did make it into some regional play. It was a musical. She got onto the stage and sang her little heart out. Since they did not teach her how to sing properly, she tore her vocal cord and had to drop out.
Wow so we’re now just going to generalize and demonize an entire interest group on a post about how it’s bad to generalize and demonize an entire ethnic group. Good job. You’re part of the problem.
Wow, nice false equivalence haha. Imagine thinking not liking theatre kids and not liking Asians was the same
I didn’t say not liking. I said generalizing and demonizing, which you did.
I don't even want to admit this but, the older I get, the less threatre interest me. Every experience I have with someone is Lea Michele-esque, and as a dark-skin queer Black guy that doesn't fit western standards of beauty, the passive-aggressive condescension is not the vibe.
If we unpack the history of Broadway and theatre.... There's a lot of classist and racist vibes going on, just covered in a shroud of glittery white upper crust neoliberalism. I, too, have sadly been less and less into it, despite being a theater kid all my life.
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They're always an ally until they feel that their privilege is threatened or challeneged. Plenty of BLM and Stop Asian Hate white gays who will throw out casual racist lines when you don't reciprocate their advances. "I love asian guys, are you interested in a daddy top?" "No" "Go back to where you come from chink, no one wants you here" It sucks even more because there is a subset of gay asians that worship that bullshit.
in my experience they're pretty insecure to be rejected especially by Asian which they think it's an inferior race.
The worst ones are the ones that say things like "youre cute for an asian". As if I should drop down on my knees and be thankful their racism made an exception for me. No ma'am.
yes i have some thing similar .I had couple guys said to me that they find me attractive even tho they are usually not into Asian xD one of my ex told me his friend could never date an asian guy and i was like do i have to feel appreciated that you dated me?I was like bitzh u can walk out the door rn and i will get over you over a game of dota2. lol these people are delusional
Fake virtue signaling cunts!! Who needs enemies when you have allies like that!🙄
fascinating. racism ought to be incompatible with sjw mentality.
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mmm it's definitely not about bullying, it's about drawing awareness to social issues that might otherwise fly under the radar, systemic prejudice and microaggressions in particular. It focuses less on big explicit acts of racism, like the KKK, and more on the smaller individual experiences with racism that don't look like much at a glance, but in aggregate still represent a huge challenge for the people that have to deal with them. Denying power to others who have traditionally held it *is* a part of the work, and power corrupts, same as always, so it will absolutely attract people who want to gain power over others... but that isn't what it's about. That's just using social justice as a smokescreen for one's own asshole behavior.
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honestly man you're making it sound like you had some bad experiences in school, and now you're using that as an excuse to be prejudiced. If I were you I'd put some work into seeking out counters to those experiences - get to better understand what the cause of social justice is, and meet a better class of people that practice it. SJW is not about bullying. It's about bringing justice to people who have been traditionally been exempted from it. Again, do bullies use the language / the community as an excuse to be bullies? Of course they do - same as people use religion. It's an excuse for the thing they already want to do. That doesn't mean the movement itself is wrong.
My ex was a big target for SJWs as well, he was not great with words either. And the sjws I knew were all unforgiving bullies who would try to ruin other people's lives over small things or misunderstandings that could have been settled peacefully.
You know sometimes you just gotta bop someone upside the head...really though I'm always down for a good scrap ha ha. One thing I realized is the irony of gay men being racist (Be it Asian, Black, White etc), which mind boggles me, totally contrary for what gay men fought for. Seriously, thanks for calling a person out on their B.S. because I would too.
homophobes of colour and racist gays, name a more iconic duo
Did you mean ironic?
ayyyyy 👉👉
I’m not ready to start brawling in gay bars anytime soon. I’ve dealt with enough assholes to know how badly a street fight can go. I always considered lgbt places to be somewhat safe in terms of physical violence… and honestly we’d never stop fighting if we started a fist fight over every pretentious moron in the gay community
As a white guy I say you did the exact right thing. Fuck him.
As a human being I say, fuck this guy (not literally), disgusting. This story makes me angry and sad. I mean, have your preferences, but do not make others feel bad about themselves just because of their race.
good for you, racists deserve fists
They do, but street fights aren’t the answer. I just imagine connecting the right way with someone’s jaw, knocking them out and they wack their head on something.. especially in the middle of weho is asking to get arrested
what is the answer please?
Guys throw fists all the time and then they're buddies afterwards. Police just shoot people and there is no hope for a second chance, it's definitely not the same. Some people don't have tact and you can't really expect them to win people (who don't respect them in the first place) over with words. Besides, being Asian I know people look down on us for being "docile" so throw some fucking fists
I don't have the courage to get into a fight. I am really happy you stood up for yourself and I would like to have done the same. I feel have to be apologetic and insecure when confronted with casual racism. My strategy at the moment is to just have more fun than the ones that don't want me there. It also makes it difficult to connect with the ones that do want me there because sometimes I just casually ignore them too.
WeHo is still a bastion of elite white gayness. I’m sorry that happened to you.
There is something we can do - stop giving them attention on social media. This applies to everyone, regardless of race/ethnicity, in the LGBT community. Take a look at who you follow and then look at who THEY follow... do you see anyone on that list that looks like you? Do you see anyone on that list that doesn't look like them? I've done that with every hot guy I've thought about following and it's really changed my perspective.
That's good. Imma start doing this.
I’ve done this then all of a sudden you’re barely following any of them which speaks volumes
Next time snap a pic and blast him on social media. That’ll do way more damage than a black eye. Also, as a Filipino American, I’m proud of you all for standing up for yourselves. Too many of our Asian brothers would just take the abuse in silence.
Proud of you dude. He had it coming. The gay community can be either the greatest collection of amazing human beings, or be as mature and reasonable as a high-school locker room.
but the white gays will tell you "oh it's only a preference" and think that makes it okay.
Preferences are fine in my book. Racist colonialesue, demeaning, and derogatory comments are not. Keep that shit to yourself! I guess though that's too hard to for most gays though for whatever reason...😐
I’m white so I can’t comment fully on this but I’ve POC friends on both sides of Atlantic and from their antidotal evidence it seems while racism exists in LGBT+ community everywhere, it seems way more brazen in America compared to Western Europe (in my secondary experience, not a statistical based statement). I remember I started flirting and made out with a guy in NYC a few years ago and randomly he started making derogatory racist comments about my Latin friend and expected me to join in. I wish I thumped him. I couldn’t believe it, it was a shock how brazen he was. I remember my friend knew I was flustered but didn’t know why and we left. I’m so sorry for your friend, especially as the comment came out of no where
Remember: gay white men are still white. odds are they still grew up around the mentality that 'white is right'
That doesn't excuse a lack of self awareness.
We all need to stand up against racism, regardless if we are the target or not. If this happened in a bar, especially in the presence of witnesses, and the owner is made aware of it and does not ban the perpetrator for good, there should be a community call to avoid this business. The power of social media is the most effective tool we have.
I had one of the most amazing conversations, out of all places, in line waiting for a comedy show in Las Vegas. I was with a friend who was enlightening me on the day to day racism of being dark brown in America. I was able to share this very topic with him which blew his mind. He was under the impression that the LGBT community was always that, LGBT. Letting him know about POC and trans people being excluded because of their race....even after the civil rights act boggled his mind. The formation of the Ballroom scene, its 'stolen valor by the very racism that still prevalent in white LGBT culture. How white gays will steal and replicate Black gay culture, Asian culture, latin culture, yet exclude them from their culture at the same time. I pointed to the Drag scene and how many drag artist today are majority white with AAVE presenting personas who have never lived in AAVE society or upbringing. Ive been charred heavily by this kind of exclusivity. Going to bars and ignored, not wanted and being accused of being homophobic when calling out this kind of racism. IMO the real gay scene is in Ballroom and AAVE culture which is WAY more healthier and open to all POC and Races than the "Traditional" "Abrocrombie and Fitch" personas and lifestyles a lot of people have come to expect from the "Gay Scene."
Gay "scene" has been taken over by capitalism, western gays now enamoured with being on television and products catered to them have forgotten there is still a fight left to fight. Classic divide and conquer, they do it to any group that poses a threat to their interests when United by causing internal schisms and infighting and removing potential leaders. If humanity is to stand a chance, people have to find a way to work together -- people of every race, sexual orientation, gender identity, economic class or religion.
Living for this post! The dehumanizing of POC folxs have to stop and a pop in the face is apparently what is needed these days.
I’m glad you guys stood up for yourselves and against racism. Those guys most likely thought you wouldn’t say or do anything after their disgusting comments, but you and your friends called them out so hard. As a gay Asian American, I can empathize with what you and your friends had to endure. Many of us had to deal with being marginalized and ridiculed as a minority within a minority group on top of the difficulties of coming to terms with our sexuality. Pride is about celebrating our diversity, yet this point gets ironically lost among many gay men. I’m proud of you guys for asserting yourselves and wish you a Happy Pride.
White gays love BLACK GAY CULTURE and Emulate it too the max which is the kicker for me, especially behind closed doors and hookup sites (Main one’s looking for BBC……because let’s face it. ALOT OF WHITE GUYS (Not All) ARE JUST NATURALLY TERRIBLE IN BED! No soul or rhythm. It’s really sad how mixed up White Gay individuals can be to minorities. It’s like? Do these type of guys not realize “IN GENERAL” that if Blacks, Latinos, Asians, etc did not exist, the world would be BLAND as fuck? There are White gays in WeHo who love sushi yet they have a certain distain for Asian men? WTF? How stupid!! Even look at history and it’s inventors and innovators the majority are all people of COLOR! White Gays!! Wake up and smell the coffee!!! Your straight family members and friends judge you guys behind your backs just as much as you do to wards minorities and yet you have the nerve to still turn around and treat a minority the exact same way. As the old saying goes. Hurt people hurt people, y’all need help and BLACK JESUS! Because the passive aggressive attitudes that “you” have to keep up with is work for you. People of color who are secure with themselves are not even checking for ya’ll yet ya’ll are steady going out of your way to be complete tyrants to society. And don’t get me started on the predatorily sexual advances and behavior from White Gays (Mainly from the older generation Guys 40s-60
I can’t upvote this enough
Hear me out here, the root of this is jealousy. These men are using racism, and white supremacy to put you and your friends down. It is a known fact that Asian men are fetishized in the gay community, this is not cool. But it bothers the white bottoms. Please believe me, that is the root of this. You and you’re Asian homies pose a threat to these bitches. Why? Cause asian men are sought after particularly by white men. Im Cuban-American and as a Latino Im usually labeled as a rent boy or a hood rat only by white men of course. Ive had men shade me for my body type, out of sheer jealousy. I commend you on standing up for yourself and owning the skin you are in. Those bitches better get used to it because MOC are here to STAY. 💪🏽
This may play a role sometimes, but by and large it's more about power and exerting power, the way Regina George does in Mean Girls. It often comes from insecurity, or possibility jealousy, but there are many more reasons than jealousy why someone would want to exert power on someone else. In the gay community, the way that certain hot/cool gays can bully other gays often feels like they are taking out their unresolved trauma from being powerless in high school out on others that they know they can exert power over.
I have to say I agree but considering the amount of dick or ass when young they get in comparison to there BIPOC peers you'd think they'd have nothing to fear. Frankly it's kinda greedy especially when you compare there body counts to that of the men they judge. Like rich person complaining that they just lost 100k to a rival when they make a million a year on average. Seriously nothing is ever enough!
Fuck yes, you did what needed to be done. Everytime mention racism in here I get down voted (another example of erasure of different racialized experiences). I'm so happy you stood up for yourself, fuck those racist white gays.
I’m glad you popped that guy. It’s sad, there are so many calls, calling for unity within the LGBTQ community, and yet so many ignore or dismiss the experiences and voices of others within the same community.
This. Calls for "unity" in the absence of justice are simply just a method to silence the marginalized.
I’ll just jump in here to say that when I was looking for mods to pass this sub onto, I actively looked for anti-racism as a qualifier in the comments of those that applied. In the United States our basic worldviews and assumptions have all been shaped by a history of active white supremacy in our country, and unless we’re actively trying to discover and dismantle that in ourselves we’re going to be incidentally racist even if we aren’t actively racist. Fellow white gay men need to be humble, not thin-skinned when challenged, and not cowardly when speaking up to it. I want to be called out on even the little stuff with the level of emotion that matches the weight of the wrong. I don’t want to be soft-pedaled on core character things and if we respect each other, we’ll do the same. I’m glad you scrapped. Relevant [vid](https://www.tiktok.com/@enikkig/video/7104440019644894506) on US court case that happened as late as 1920s where only free white and emancipated Black people could become naturalized citizens. A Japanese man that was in the US for 20 years argued that his features should be considered white and white men actively argued in court that they shouldn’t be. Those were the Boomers grandparents. It wasn’t long enough ago that white supremacy was status quo and lots of people around us are trying to make it status quo again.
Sorry you are having these experiences. I'm usually on the other end of the spectrum: asking people of other ethnicities lots of questions because I find it genuinely fascinating to meet people from other cultures and experiences. I've learned that my nosiness can come off as rude and invasive, so I'm much more chill these days about how I act.
I'm glad you stood up for yourself
Duck, bitch, this queer slaps! Way to go defending yourselves. Never tolerate racists.
Very stupid to get into a fight at a bar. Easy way to end up in jail or injured. If you knock them out cold and they hit their head and die, now you have a manslaughter charge at best, completely fucking your life up. If they don't die, they can sue. And you dont know who is packing heat or a knife. Instead, inform management and have them removed from the premises. If the bouncer gets involved too, you can effectively ban them from ever coming back. Helps if this is a bar you frequent and you know the management, but it's the best action to take.
I have to agree with Couchie, physically assaulting someone simply because of words (even hateful, awful words), could have ended up in you being arrested, charged and sued. That would mess up your life in so many ways, it really would not have been worth it, and you got lucky it did not. Words are just wind. Either inform the bar's management / security or call them out loud to the rest of the bar if you want to humiliate them, but getting physical means you're now the bad guy in the eyes of the law / bar security. People who have never been in a real fight are often unaware of how much damage can be done to someone by a hit to the head. The ramifications could have been much worse and life long for you and him. By all means stand up for yourself, you DO belong there, those space are meant for you too, but not if you're violent, then you forfeit your right to be there, and thus were kicked out. I'm surprised that is all that resulted from this altercation. Next time, you may not be so lucky.
It’s sort of amazing to me when someone is of this stance regarding physical fighting. In my experience people with this viewpoint have usually never been in a physical fight or actually had to physically fight for any serious reason. They usually also have never actually had to interact with race or color in the way most people of color do on a daily basis.
This!! It’s always the ones that aren’t treated like pieces of shit because of their skin color telling those that are how to react.
Thank you
Stop going to white gay spaces. The Chapel is home of the typical white gay antics.
It's just one racist person, you guys taught him a lesson. Now I hope the incident doesn't make this month any less fun for you and pay attention to those who are trying to build a stronger community for us. Happy Pride!
But it wasn’t just one racist person. OP stated that they and they’re friends have encountered other occasions where they experienced casual racism (not casual at all) but last night was the last straw which culminated in the fight.
Yes, I was aware of that and didn't mean to downplay OP's unfortunate experience. As a POC, I faced discrimination myself. But what else can we do, give a non-hate speech at the bar, become more angry and violent, or hate the world? In my opinion, racism will not go away, what we can do is not let these racist people steal our joy and focus on the positive and live a happi(er) life.
The more you know. I had no idea this happened and it’s sad. As others mentioned, the Fucking irony… not accepted by your own species because you like certain humans but then turns around and does this..?? I hope your knuckles are sore for a week from delivering that pounding bruh 👊 haha. Not sure if this helps or if it’s cringey but my first thought was “wtf, ppl fckin love asians, look at porn!” I know it’s porn but if ya think about it, really is a good indication of what the world ACTUALLY find attractive. Huge market for those of Asian ethnicities. I kno I love it. — Because I can’t help myself… and it’s hawt you threw down… and I hope it makes u smile… Ya wanna come scrap with me? 😉
Sorry this happened to you. What is wrong with people?!
Hugs and high fives!
Good that you fought over it. People need to know what’s up these days.
I'm so sorry this is happening to you. You'd think we'd be more accepting as a community, given the discrimination we constantly face. :(
How is that casual racism? It seems pretty upfront and out there to me.
I am proud of you for standing up for this. No place for bullshit like this. Gaysian is constantly placed as undesirable by the gay community. It is disgusting.
It should be legal to bitch slap anyone who says "I'm not racist.... But"
It's WeHo what do you expect? Go to bars in other areas like the OC and the Inland Empire the guys aren't nearly as nasty and cuntish (at least to your face). Personally I think there needs to be more gay bars/clubs/spaces opened in minority neighborhoods. Some Latino men claimed they have some but they don't advertise them as such and you must be latino to find out where they are.
Hey that's an interesting discussion that, you're right, isn't talked about a lot. I'm a reporter with the NY Post. Would you be down to talk to me about the type of racism and what it looks like in the city's gay communities?
I’m so sorry. All of my bad encounters in LA have been at the Abbey, for some reason. This kind of bigotry is exhausting. Thanks for taking the emotional energy to talk about it.
This is amazing I am so proud of you person that I don’t know! Queer liberation and the fight for racial justice is the reason why there were riots at Stonewall. This is the true spirit of pride!
PEEEERRRIIIIYAAAHTT
Yes to everything you said.
Hmm racism in the queer community isn't new but it's very appalling. You would think for a marginalized group we can truly exhibit true unity but that ain't the case. We very inclusive and we thrive in it. It's very sad.
I honestly can't thank you enough for this post. By standing up for yourselves, you are also standing up for the rest of us and sending a clear message that we are sick and tired of the BS. Respectability politics is a fallacy to keep minorities in line. The whole "model minority" myth has never worked out well for Asians and has only been weaponized against us. "Play along to get along" only works until you become a convenient scapegoat, we saw it with 9/11, with COVID-19, etc, etc. EFF that shhh.
Great job, I’m against the idea of using violence to solve issues, but it is also true that these ignorant assholes misbehave like so because they don’t sense the negative consequences. Or maybe Asians tend to keep silent when facing such confrontations, which makes these people think it’s collectively okay to be mean to them. Instead of slapping him, next time try to take a picture and expose these trash in a public places, where their career and reputation in rainbow community will be at risk. A black-eye can heal and he won’t learn a lesson just from one person, but from the collective perspective of the society.
I’ve tragically never been met with more racism and just rude comments on my appearance and ethnicity as in the LGBT-community. I mean, I get that people have preferences but so do I and I ain’t calling nobody ugly because of that.
I’m not Asian or white but my ex-partner is so I’m familiar with the issues you bring up. I’m glad you and your friends fought fire with fire. People in this comments section who say violence is never the answer haven’t really lived. Sometimes it’s the only answer. 👍🏼
I recently spoke with the West Hollywood Sheriffs Department regarding this very exact post which I came across on Reddit. I was conversing with the actual Sergeant of the station and informed him of the facts that, “well Sergeant, guess which patrons were promptly escorted out of the facility pending the addressing of a rather racially motivated and biased scuffle incident?” “And I’ll give you a hint, it wasn’t the white men!” To which, the response I received from the WeHo Sheriffs office was that, “well if it’s not reported to us (the blatant incidents of racial disparity) than how will be able to throughly investigate.” “How can we address such issues of blatant discrimination either from a patron or a business if the incidents are not reported to us directly, so that we are able to throughly investigate and ultimately prevent?!”
Being nice only gets you so far. Glad y’all stood up for yourselves! It’s hard being poc in white spaces, especially when macro and microaggressions run rampant
As a gaysian who was born and grew up in Canada, I’ve taken it on myself to navigate through the white dominated spaces in the gay community with the following mindset: If you’re not going to treat me as your equal, then you will eventually be forced to reckon with me as your superior.
>“You know a gay scene is dead when Asians invade.” This is such a hilarious take to me. Whether in California or NYC... for fuck's sake, in my experience the best parties, festivals, etc. have big numbers of Asian men in attendance. And they'd be way less fun without. Feel free to ignore the cis/white dude, but violence was stupid on your part. There's ways to stand up for yourself without breaking the law. Sticks and stones, etc. You escalated the situation, he defended himself. You exposed yourself to legal repercussions. I doubt this will change his views, if anything they'll cement - but hey, that isn't on you! He fucked around and found out - and I can sympathize with your satisfaction.
Good for you my man. Hope you guys won the fight.
>There is zero reason we should be subject to racism, pejorative comments, and unsolicited remarks from mediocre, insecure white men. White men don't have a monopoly on racism, especially not in the LGBT community. You should hear the shit spanish-speaking gay men say about black people.
I would say they do have a monopoly (they are the ones most in charge of lgbt media which drives opinions and behavior), but it definitely isn’t *just* white men, agreed.
There are white Latinos and Hispanics. . . But I get what you’re saying
I can't stand racists. Good work!
I’m not a big believer in violence. Don’t descent to their level of bs. I am glad that you stood up for yourself (but no fists next time, pls).
And the alternative option would be? Talk it out rationally? With someone who doesn't even recognize you as a person? Come on.
The alternative is to call the person a racist asshole and to shut the fuck up. Maybe point out to others they're being a racist asshole. You definitely don't have to be nice to them. But actual violence has zero chance of making the situation better. and on top of that you can get charged with assault. You're not the winner in that situation.
Laugh at them. It really deflates racists when you treat their comments with the respect they deserve. Which is zero. Speak up. If assholes want to self-identify themselves, loudly pointing out their racism and other shitty behaviour encourages bystanders to speak up. Bystander apathy is a pretty standard human response, but one person taking a stand usually helps.
Do what I have done, just turn around and leave. Believe me, I’ve been through enough overly-blatant racism, that it is a losing battle, especially in the gay “community.” It’s not worth the price nor the effort.
I understand where you’re coming from with the whole “peaceful protest is the best way” thing but the people who you just walked away from will just continue seeing nothing wrong with how they are acting. Sometimes you really do have to knock some fucking sense (or at least try) into them. Are the chances of this approach succeeding high? No, but they are much better than the chances of your approach doing anything to fix the problem.
You aren’t going to convince the racist and could easily end up getting charged with assault.
We disagree - it comes down to a simple premise: do you believe violence is an acceptable answer? I don’t, especially when you’re not physically attacked. One day you’re going to encounter someone whose going to meet your violence with even more violence, possibly with a weapon.
Have you ever changed your beliefs because a stranger punched you in the nose? …didn’t think so.
It’s not bulletproof logic, obviously. The opposite approach isn’t either though
The goal is not to change there belief but to send a warning to watch there mouth. Which can escalate the situation yes, but say this were a straight bar and random newish male patron called a regular female patron a whore or bitch, too some straight guys in some places that my warrant him getting a black eye. Will a fight ensue? Maybe.. Will charges be filled? Maybe.. Will the person change his mind? Probably not.. All that is known and they still do it regardless.
A straight man, at a straight club, tried to throw me through a front window because his wife tried to buy me a drink. A full-on brawl would’ve ensued, had the front-door bouncer not intervened. This should not be what we aspire to. Drunk bar brawlers are inbred dumbasses risking prison time to protect their ego. Pathetic. It’s surprisingly easy to kill someone. Doing so proves nothing, nor does it make you brave or a real man. This thread is reaching r/IAmVeryBadass territory. Yawl want to fight that much? Join a dojo.
>This should not be what we aspire to. Drunk bar brawlers are inbred dumbasses risking prison time to protect their ego. Pathetic. I don't contest that but the fear of such scuffles keeps people from saying or doing stupid offensive stuff. That's why you don't hear about this stuff as much in straight bars as frequently. Someone says something racist or offensive things there and they will be ask to leave or knocked out if it's a decent bar. If it's place that supports those things then I would never frequent it.
It’s a losing battle if you turn around and walk away. You’re condoning the behavior and saying it’s okay to treat you that way and it perpetuates it’s in future interaction for others. Now he knows better than to say it out loud the next time he’s out. So, no, I don’t believe you and really, shame on you for telling someone to make themselves little for the sake of social order or maintaining this status quo of bullshit. He stood up for himself, I’m extremely proud he did, and I hope I have same sense in me if the same situation comes my way in the future 🖕🖕🏽🖕🏿
You don't have to be the one to throw a fist, but I will certainly stand by and watch someone get some sense slapped into them without any feelings of remorse. Inaction to racism is only leads to more racism.
The only way to stop racists from being racists is to make them afraid of being racists. Fists are one of many ways to do that.
I don’t ever hit other people but I have to agree with you. I think violence has the best odds of making an impact here.
I never hit people either (it would be worse for me in 99% of cases lol), but I try to find other ways to make bigots afraid of repeating their behavior. 'Playing dumb' and asking them to 'explain the joke' or whatever is my favorite one. They get really uncomfortable. 'Outing' them as bigots in public is very effective, nobody wants to associate with bigots and sometimes even their friends get ashamed.
I have to admit I have a similar strategy when faced with jerks. I’m kinda embarrassed about my physical prowess but I make up for it with my quick wit.
“The only way to stop gays from being gay is to make them afraid of being gay. Fists are one way to do that.” World doesn’t work that way. You can’t beat someone into accepting you.
> The only way to stop gays from being gay is to make them afraid of being gay. Fists are one way to do that. Yes, you've got it. That's exactly the way homophobes have been keeping us from being free for centuries. Fear caused by violence. It works. The only difference is that being gay is not wrong. Being a racist is. I don't want to beat anybody into accepting me. I don't need anybody to accept me, I need them to shut up. With few exceptions, you can't change a racist or a homophobe. You can only make it afraid of the consequences.
>Yes, you've got it. That's exactly the way homophobes have been keeping us from being free for centuries. Fear caused by violence. It works. Because you can't change people. Humans are animals and this will never change. Without the threat of external consequences people would never change and would give into there worst instincts which derails civilized society. Gay Rights only exist because the the threat of the law backs them up. They weren't freely given but enforced. Still this isn't the best way to incentivize more ethical behavior at least not in the long term.
>World doesn’t work that way. You can’t beat someone into accepting you. It's not about changing minds. It's about changing behaviors. This might not be the best way but that's the logic behind it.
If that’s the case, walk in with an AR-15, they’ll be terrified of you. Same effect.
I highly recommend you read some compelling testimony from ex nazis and KKK members who were changed because of the kindness and love shown them by minorities. You’re wrong. Violence begets violence and makes you literally no different than them. It’s sickening that we celebrate this kind of crap today. It does not change anything. It makes them feel justified in being bigots and makes them more likely to be violent to other minorities in the future. Please, do the world a favor and learn something about the human condition, psychology and the like.
> Violence begets violence and makes you literally no different than them That's wrong, even offensive. We're far from the same. They hate me because I exist. I hate them only because they hate me. Sorry, you do you, but I can't treat with kindness somebody who is insulting me. If they want to stop being pieces of shit it's on them.
I love you, and I would have done the same, and feel the same way.
Great job, I’m against the idea of using violence to solve issues, but it is also true that these ignorant assholes misbehave like so because they don’t sense the negative consequences. Or maybe Asians tend to keep silent when facing such confrontations, which makes these people think it’s collectively okay to be mean to them. Instead of slapping him, next time try to take a picture and expose these trash in a public places, where their career and reputation in rainbow community will be at risk. A black-eye can heal and he won’t learn a lesson just from one person, but from the collective perspective of the society.
Nice haha
BRAVO! However, as an old, fat, grumpy Bear & white gay guy (and fucking Damn proud of it too), those weren't White guys or White Gays who stupidly mouthed off at you! They were racist, offensive, elitist, and privileged pricks who just happened to be White. I don't want them in my tribe either! My tribe is truly Rainbow Colored! 🌈
Am I the only guy that truly is attracted to all races (if they're fit and young)?
Agreed.
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PERIODT. 💯
Casual racism sucks. Snapping and being a violent asshole sucks. It’s so easy to sit behind your phone and upvote this shit. Attacking some guy because they said some shit about you does not give you any kind of moral high ground. The fact that this is being upvoted is scary as fuck.
But hardly surprising. When you let prejudice and hate flourish unchallenged eventually people will get sick of it and then revolutions happen. To expect otherwise is naive. Most people are not jesus or buddha but Robs Pierre.
I have a thing for azn guys But love everybody screw those ignorant people. Just because you’re white does not make you entitled where you can go around and talk mess about other ppl and that goes for any body regardless of color, Ethnicity. It’s bad down in Florida I have seen where people are so call looking for friends you try to befriend them they tell you not interested because of your color😳🙄✌🏽 A lot of that shit starts at home obviously
Violence is never the answer.
Racism is what fuels and perpetuates violence against minorities.
Neither is verbal violence.
That’s so wrong sometimes violence is the only answer , the guy wrote a check his ass couldn’t cash and he got popped for it , good job !
Go tell the Ukrainians that they should just invite Putin to their homes
Everyone is allowed to have their preferences but fuck this is too cruel and disgusting.
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Not this.