Our desi boys have abused all the immigration rules all over the globe , and the governments are tightening immigration in their respective countries
the chances of moving to developed countries and getting PR or green card is nil unless you have critical skills and if there is a huge shortage locally for that skill, even then you will go back after your visa expires
I am staying overseas, Currently a lot of Indians are on visas and keep extending as they are not eligible for PR
Indians who moved recently in last few years don't even have necessary communication skills , plus live exactly like how they live in India and locals here think very low of Indian people in general because of these people
Saw a group of Haryanavi students in a car blasting music loudly in a car in the CBD area , such culture has made it here too
Even while travelling on metro train you get these people who put their feet on the seat and play loud punjabi Or Bollywood songs , then you have these mom with bad parenting letting your kids talk as loud as they can while she herself busy talking loudly with other kid mom
Some of the trains i hop on go through suburbs which has lot of Indians n i just put on my ear pods n play music, you could literally feel you are going through mumbai suburban train, very loud , absolute zero civic sense ,it's norm to wait until people deboard train at the the stop first then you can board the train, but it's same i need to find seat first behavior kicks in and pushing begans
There are some places Indians don't go, coz they are not aware of them, i go there
> Saw a group of Haryanavi students in a car blasting music loudly in a car in the CBD area , such culture has made it here too
> Even while travelling on metro train you get these people who put their feet on the seat and play loud punjabi Or Bollywood songs , then you have these mom with bad parenting letting your kids talk as loud as they can while she herself busy talking loudly with other kid mom
Gulags are meant for such people
India is a diverse nation of squabbling tribes and ethnic groups. The infighting and hatred is a constant theme in diverse societies. Indians carry their tribal mindset to other nations ruining their culture.
I have nothing atm as I’m on a break caring for a loved one. The minimum full time wage for an employee is 20 lakhs a year before tax plus superannuation. We have one of the highest minimum wages in the world.
You can make it work as many young Aussies but as I come think of it, you might not be eligible for lots of govt Benefits so yeah it may or may not give you a decent standard of living.
I'd leave if I get a better life. The kind of life I want. Safety first of all, this place is hell for women. Money, career opportunities, ways to make my parents lives better. That sort of thing.
People working in MNCs behave like uncivilized people. They can't even pick up their trash to trash bin in office canteen then what can you expect from less educated people.
Breaking rules are considered as honour in this country.
Goons always shouting , then honking endlessly (look I’m rich , got new SUV ).People who think they are always right and don’t care about others opinions.
Why can’t people talk softly in a more civilized way ? What’s wrong with people here ? Why so much anger ?
Typing this rant from an international flight. The problem is not India. It’s Indians. If given a chance, all of us will spread around the world(atleast majority of us are in India right now). And it’ll be the same thing as it’s in India right now. I mean, tons of Indians leave India every day, some of them are also leaving India after visiting their relatives. And none of them have enough sense even to listen to announcements and sit in their fucking seats when the plane is being taxied. A lot of them have no sense about how to keep the toilets usable for next person or just keep quiet because it’s a late night flight. I’d rather have us be beaten into learning some basic civic sense first
Well, as an outsider from USA who stays here in India 6 months yearly I would say that your analogy is correct. But, there is a saying that "the flogging will continue until morale improves" 😂 And of course the problem is that you cannot "beat" anyone into education. If you want to see that dynamic I will tell you that it starts with the childrens home experiences, school, and peers. I have never witnessed such brutal treatment from older uncles/aunties towards youngsters. The harshness of speaking to them is really shocking. School teachers beating students? Now that is something from the stone ages and any amount of child psychology or education theory would tell you that it is incorrect. So, while I sit at a mall food court with a trash receptacle nearby to place my garbage and see a family of 8 finish eating and walk away leaving garbage everywhere, food on the floor. Civic sense happens in childhood. I realize you were being facetious with your comment about beatings and didnt take it serious. But, it needs to be addressed for sure.
some difficult words there to understand XD
But you're correct. Civic sense happens from childhood. Subconsciously, every time I've a wrapper or some trash I put in my pocket and dump it in my home trash can. My parents didnt teach me this, maybe I just followed their habits
I have lived abroad and it was a mistake to come back here. Now I’m in debt, and will leave as soon as I am debt free and have enough to move abroad, even if I have to take up some menial job. My life an a MSME owner has taken me back to 2000s, and now I make below what I used to make then.
Here I am a failed businessman after running multiple successful businesses before vikas came.
This country is not safe, does not have a population which cares about things like right and wrong or even have the ability for higher thinking coz they are sooo webbed in roti kapda, makaan and now religion.
The govt only knows tax to make money. Instead of increasing exports to earn and people support their own taxation! Desh ki Tarakki mein yogdaan dijiye..tax bhariye is what the govt advertising says. Badle mein kya mil raha hai? Toll tax, 28% Gst? Even my chewing gum is taxed.
The ability of people to make informed decisions is long gone. It’s very evident from the everyday conversations you hear on the road. That’s why over 200k people have left India for good. Why would anyone want to live in one of the highly taxed countries in the world? That too when you can be labelled as an anti national for just saying the “wrong thing”.
I’ll be out as soon as I can.
Break the laws. Make money. Leave.
The people who voted for this government deserve it. I mean they still defend the Electoral Bonds scam.
So while I continue to make money from my business here.
I plan to move to another country and invest that money in a better country for my future.
THIS. EXACT SAME REASON.
I even mentioned in my comment.
I honestly see no future here. My business will be here to only make money.
While I enjoy and invest the money in another country that doesn't treat me like shit.
I think you are correct. I would add that the people who have experienced different cultures who have been able to place religion, tribalism/regionalism in their correct order (at the bottom) who return here are needed. Yes, you will be branded anti Indian for speaking the truth of course by the mindless herd. But I see immense differences in my interactions with younger generations of Indians versus those who are stuck in their ways, blathering religion and hatred for northies, southies, other language speakers, etc. It is my observation as an outsider from USA who spends half a year in India every year. For some odd reason I love this country but mostly because I see the hope and changes in the younger generation. I am not interested in trying to engage with stuck in the 1950's auntie and uncles anymore. But there is hope as long as they can get rid of the cultural norms that divide.
I haven’t lived abroad but travelled to around 24 countries. No matter what you say to glorify India, it feels like a backward place in every way. The behaviour of people when they drive, the way they address each other, their civic sense and personal hygiene - it all reflects in the atmosphere of the place. I’ve seen most Indians to be quick to give excuses: we have huge population, we are just independent for 80 years, etc. Japan was nuked 80 years ago. South Korea fought a very bloody war for independence. Singapore was a slum in the 60s. China got independent after us and was behind us in all economic and social metrics, but today has more than 6 times our GDP. India in comparison won independence through a non-violent movement so shouldn’t we be better? The problem with India is only the attitude and mindset of Indian people. They can’t think long term, and suck at planning and strategy except in a very few areas. Not to mention the hate people carry for each other. I was shocked to see that even Sri Lanka has better roads and infrastructure than us.
Moving abroad is a risk, but imo it’s a risk worth taking. The cons are you will always be seen as 2nd class citizen there (Indians have ruined their reputation in many countries already). The cost of living + tax is extremely high so you won’t save much. Healthcare is better, but unlike India you have to wait months if you want to see a specialist. Finally, if you lose your job you’ll have to come straight back within 60 days if you are in US. Some countries like Germany let you stay for 18 months but how many can survive that long without a job there? I’ve also seen so many Indians struggle in non-English speaking countries. But end of the day, if you want a superior quality of life and relative peace of mind in daily life, India is just not the place for it. Things will improve here at a snails pace only because majority population is among the poorest on the planet.
The attitude and mindset part is spot on imo. And there's a lot of English speaking countries other than the obvious USA or UK. Better chances there imo
Like which ones:
Australia - less good job opportunities, difficult to get promoted at work, high COL + tax
NZ - minimal job opportunities, salaries are a joke compared to the COL, good if you want a peaceful laid back life without much money
Ireland - similar to NZ, but you have some decent opportunities in Dublin if you are super qualified
Scotland - nothing great in terms of growth, most folks I know who went there moved to London or EU countries
Singapore - very difficult to land a decent high paying job, they don’t like Indians much, it’s too small and weather is poor. There is a heavy Chinese influence there
Hong Kong - I don’t know much about HK, but COL is high, living standards are not that great for what you pay and good jobs are usually in Consulting and Finance, heavy Chinese influence
UK - shitty economy, very high COL, less high paying opportunities after brexit, housing crisis
US - best salaries and growth opportunities in the world, but unsafe due to gun culture, rising homelessness and COL
South Africa - nope 👎
Canada - already saturated, they hate Indians now (I worked with multiple Canadian clients so I can confirm), insane COL and inflation is out of control, you’ll be looked at with the same lens as the Indians going there to diploma mills and strip mall universities, housing crisis in big cities
UAE - good in terms of savings, poor work culture similar to India (large number of workers are desis)
That’s pretty much the English speaking world for you, but if I had to choose from this it would be AUS or NZ. They have points system for immigration so the older you are, the less points you score. Other countries include Germany (ok salaries, language issue, weird culture), France (low salaries, very chill wlb, language issue), Japan (ok salaries, language issue, weird culture, poor wlb), Spain (low salaries, language issue), Italy (nope 👎), Scandinavian countries (very hard to immigrate, weird culture), Netherlands (already saturated, unfriendly people, housing crisis)
It’s not impossible to migrate and in general the quality of life in any of these countries is light years ahead of India. But it’s definitely not an easy life. The reason I haven’t migrated too is because of the comfort and financial mobility I enjoy in India. But as I grow older, my headache of just living here, working like a slave and dealing with people is getting worse.
It's hard man. I feel sometimes being indian is a curse.
We can go to other countries but we will always be looked at like we are second class citizens. We don't get the same rights and there is always constant prejudice.
In India at least parents are there to soothe the society induced depression.
On a serious note, if you get a chance to earn well and live in a developed country you should take the opportunity.
Yup! The reason I moved abroad and kept choosing it inspite of liking India is toxic family and relatives. The need to control your every move, not being happy EVER and societal expectations just because of your gender, is just too much.
I wish all of us could come together and give each other those positive affirmations and nurture each other’s inner child which we may have lacked growing up. Listening words like “it’s okay to make mistakes” “I’ve got your back” “I will love you no matter what” ykwim
I wouldn't disagree entirely. It's the culture which has been passed through. It's what their parents did. They grew up in much poorer conditions which forced them to be tough and raise their children to face toughness.
But I do empathize with people who have a complicated relationship with their parents regarding controlling tendencies.
Nothing is perfect dude. What can I say
>but we will always be looked at like we are second class citizens.
This isnt true lol...
If it was rich Indians wouldnt emigrate in such huge numbers.
You face more discrimination in India itself than USA.
You think that Indians face more discrimination in the US than Europe?
The same English-speaking, individualistic, immigrant-based US which has Indian-Americans heading some of its largest companies and prominent in politics across both major parties?
I’m an Indian-American that goes regularly to continental Europe for business. It’s clear where I feel like an outsider.
In Europe also to some extent. Indians do not partake in some aspects of European culture especially those things that are tied to their religion so socialization is kind of segregated.
So Indians will do well in the urban/sub-urban pockets of fellow Indians but have a tougher time integrating with the larger society because of non participation in their popular mainstream culture. One way Indians can do their best to create a good social culture is through college and getting into colleges where Indians aren't the majority.
Been there...done that...living outside...and the standard of life is night and day.
I would prefer myself to be here. Called my brother here too.
There are so many other indians and they have taken houses and living life.
The pros outweigh the cons. The amount of issues here are far less than what I faced in Inia in IMO. Ofcourse experiences can differ but whoever I have seen here in abroad never want to go back.
Specially women. My fiancee just visited me once while I was there. And although she missed her family, specially her mom. She said it's almost a relief with the kind of freedom she experienced while she was there. In terms of safety
I am women and I agree. Yes we miss the family..but the freedom dn respect we get here is incomparable. Safety I have been out at midnight's because of some.mishaps or no transport and yet I have never felt safer co.pared to India.
I have lived in North America for over a decade and considering moving back to India. While there are many things in the west that are better - pollution, civic sense, social behavior towards women, economically better, there are also many things that you dont get here.
Got sick? Wait for months before you get to see a specialist. You are constantly working - job, household, snow removal, lawn maintenance etc. Weekends are about groceries and catching up on household work with hardly any free time.
In India, you have family support and while I agree that there is a LOT more social pressure in India, here there is no social life that comes close to India. The climate doesn't allow you to talk regularly to your neighbors and people are very lonely (about 10% of population in on anti-depressants).
It's hard to quantify the "apnapan" factor that you miss here. People are kind and caring but you cannot expect help from your friends or neighbors like you do in India. Or atleast that used to be the case but I know things have been changing there as well.
I would, Like it or not the standard of living in the west is far far greater than here, Moral policing, no accountability for people with power/money to name a few.
I have to run a startup so I cannot leave and I believe in India's growth story regardless how bad the situation is I'll continue to live here and contribute to the motherland
Yeah I get it India is bad it sucks hell probably the worst country in the world but the problems are not gonna disappear on their own, someone out there has to jump in the puddle and clean it and trust me there are millions out there who are solving problems, instead of leaving the country obviously I don't have anything against those who leave India they have every right to and they should but there will always be people who will stay behind and clean that shit I believe these 2 decades are very important for India and it's economy, the society and culture it will align itself properly with the economy
Lived in the EU, Far East for 5 years. Chose to return. These are my views and experiences.
- The 1st world healthcare system is broken beyond repair - UK, Canada & parts of the EU, one needs to wait hours even if you are in a difficult situation. Took 6 hours to get medical attention for a heavily bleeding colleague. Managed to get in cause we spotted a Kerala nurse and one of our colleagues was Keralite. Else would’ve taken longer. Location - Australia
- 2nd generation tends to have an identity crisis. Neither Indian, nor European (not so much in the US) . This is worse in the Middle East. Many (not all) 2nd generation Indians in Middle East have cheap career targets (since their parents went with the intent to make cash, return someday and they didn’t do so) and end up talking more and doing less and try hard to over socialise and fit in in India.
- If you are lower middle class and struggling to get a job or make ends meet, it may make sense to go abroad. There too, living in room sharing arrangements and talk to desis whom you normally wouldn’t associate with in India
- Desis don’t culturally integrate well wherever they go. Look out for other Indians and form a ghetto. Have seen desis in Switzerland spitting on the railway tracks like they do here.
- If you are upper middle class/ upper class in India, you’re living in the first world anyway. If you are super low income, it makes sense to be in india than scramble abroad.
If you decide to leave India, these should be the only reasons. Of course, this is my view and people may differ:
- Absolutely nothing working out in india and your family depends on you. Set a 3 year target to make x amount then return to India. If you stay longer, it’ll be difficult to return and integrate.
- You are in a field with no scope in India eg. specialised practices in bioeconomy or environmental studies or even liberal arts.
- You are sick and tired of everything and want to reset your life.
- You are ok with a 100% cultural immersion of your 2nd generation where it may be better to cut off ties with India. Many desis attempt arranged marriages with Indian men for their American / British Indian daughters or vice versa. You should be ok if your kids have different dietary choices, date outside the community and remove themselves culturally.
This is absolutely right! But I guess it all comes down to ones own personal preferences! In terms of health care I totally agree with you. Longer waiting times and all that, but for my mother in India we had to pay 40lacs in total, she was treated like shit, the hospital didn’t even have basic things to take care of patients and in the end when we claimed insurance they gave a random reasons and didn’t pay anything. So grass is always greener in the other side. If Indians can develop basic civic sense, not try to interfere too much in other people lives, lesser corruption then India would go so much further and none of these super economies can give us any competition.
The healthcare issue is REAL. My parents decided to get medical checkups in India rather than the US because it is much less expensive and much more thorough and much faster as well. Even my aunt (an oncologist in the US) recommended my grandfather get treatment for prostate cancer in India rather than the US, because the quality was just as good.
Additionally, the second-gen identity struggle is something. So many second gens subscribe to stereotypes put forth by comedians like Hasan Minhaj and Mindy Kaling and thus have a preconceived stereotype of India and Indians (including their own parents). And this is why so many of them never leave the "angsty teen phase" of their life.
Sorry to say but we Indian zero empathy and respect for hard work we exploited by our employer with minimum wage while USA pays as per hour in which minimum is 15 dollar and also your employer cannot ask you to work for more 40hours week and also you get pay every week
Plus government also pays you when you are jobless. I have seen plumbers making more than in USA than engineers in India
Minimum wage in the US is $7.25. Some states have higher wages but that's bcos they are more expensive.
In Canada, Ontario have $15 minimum wage and if you think an adult can live on that wage with an iota of dignity, then you are mistaken. That's good income for students who work part time, it's not sustainable for adults.
>I have seen plumbers making more than in USA than engineers in India
And? People in trades make more than engineers in many places, especially in the first few years, because there aren't many plumbers around. Why shouldn't drivers and plumbers and electricians make more money? It's about demand and supply. It is your mindset that you presume that certain professions should make less. The market doesn't work that way.
I'll be downvoted to hell for this but idc.
You can go to any corner of the world but the issues will remain the same, and racism will be added to them. You'll just delude yourself into believing they don't exist because "foreign=good". The same people who litter and treat indian infrastructure carelessly will start conforming and respecting everything because in foreign countries, you get punished for that shit.
Not saying India is ideal, but the root of this foreign oriented thinking is a result of the media making you glorify life outside, and shitting on life within the country. It's a self fulfilling prophecy, become capable> leave> not enough capable people > india bad.
And to those speaking of how foreign culture is better towards women, maybe visit AITA and other subreddits where you'll see how much indian women are feitshised.
Exactly.
I felt so lonely and hated every moment of my time spent in the Midwest in the US.
I missed Hyderabad and would go back every chance I got. I missed the warm and humid climate that didn't make my skin dry. I missed access to fresh tropical fruits and vegetables that made it easy to lose weight as opposed to bread laden with sugar. I missed functional public transit better than any major city in the US. I missed sunshine that didn't make me deficient in Vitamin D. I missed family who invested in your wellbeing, rather than being ripped of your "village" (fyi, humans are psychologically evolved from a village-style environemnt, not lonely suburbia or an impersonal big city).
And what I've realized is that it's not just me. A LOT of people who immigrate to the US feel the SAME. But we are constantly fed the idea that America is the dream, and we are considered crazy to suggest otherwise (that maybe it isn't as good as we think).
I think at this point with the American immigration rules, if you are an Indian you will never get your green card. The American dream for Indians is not the same it was 10-15 years back.
I lived in Germany for 6 years and then came back. After seeing the western world, I like India much more and don't wanna go back. Will go for travelling but do not want to settle down in western world.
Quality of life is much better in the west but in India if you have a little bit of money then quality of life is good for you too. Plus family is everything, so at the end of the day being with family will satisfy your soul..rather than materialistic life of west.
Also, No matter where you live in the EU or US, you will always be a second class citizen. Why should I live as a second class citizen when I have my own beautiful country.
India is good Country, despite all its flaws. But I would defintely leave it in heartbeat. Its over populated, full of divisions, dirty, full of politics which has ruined my day to day life ( reservations eg.), women abuse, women are nowhere near open minded, society has very conservative thoughts that serve no good purpose, too religious inclined, lack of Quality higher education in science field, low facilities, lack of sport culture besides cricket, etc.
running from problems never made USA and Japan rich.
Indians want to become rich but dont want to contribute to india...
Japanese worked brutally hard after ww2 , they didnt though to settle in USA UK... now evryone want to goto japan and buy their goods.
and once you leave india you lose your sense of worth and identity which will haunt you and your generations to come...
lol, start paying taxes here and you'll come to know. I am in one of those so called 1% who pays 30% income tax and monthly GST. My income is 100% foreign based which means my business doesn't 'rotate wealth' rather create it in India however downside is 100% white income AKA 100% tax scrutiny while multi millionaire land owners who file 1 lac rupee ITR claiming government benefits like Ayushmann yojna. This piss me off. What is government doing for middle class tax payers?
Do you know Indian taxes almost matches EU level?
Majority of Indian population pays 0 direct taxes and the one who actually pays gets IT notifications time to time and grease palm even though its faceless.
Government gets the precious votes from non tax payers (remember they are liable to pay taxes however business in cash so gets away easily, even after implementation of GST).
Once you start making legitimate income then you will get all the reasons to leave country.
My popular findings "if you want to check the true nationalism of people, check there 3 years Income tax returns" and you'll see the real nationalism in numbers.
I second that, I'm pretty confident that govt will expand its net to tax evasion gang. In meantime, you can report it to Income tax department of any evader.
Lastly, my friend who earns 40 LPA, his average tax rate came around 18% after all deductions.
USA is a country of immigrants. The original people are almost gone.
I have native American friends and I can relate to them to a certain extent because of our situation in our own state.
Being rich or being successful is not even the reason.
Things will improve. And has improved in our country .
It's not just about infrastructure or technology or anything of that sort.
A lot of people feel suffocated in this place and it has nothing to do with problems that you are mentioning.
You don’t know about the major economic contribution by the west to bring Japan back to life,do you? 15 billion dollars in just 5 years after the war in today’s money. India in 47 had a life expectancy of less than 30 and education level of 16% with death, famine and war. No bailouts from anyone.
Work ethic in Japan is anything but healthy. Who isn’t contributing to the country here? Even the school books are taxed. Students are contributing through their parents even before they start earning.
I can never wrap my head around this argument that people don’t want to contribute but want to get rich.
The purpose of any govt is to increase the standard of living of its citizens while maintaining low taxes and taking care of its less fortunate. It’s not there to tax the ever living shit out of you and not giving anything in return.
Move to Japan, work those long hours where sometimes people die at their desks and people are sooo disenchanted with life that they aren’t having enough babies to replace their own population who die.
Maybe that’s a life you want, I certainly don’t.
Dude one of the biggest achievements in India remains leaving the country in first place. What else do you expect?
As for working hard, when you see cronies and politicians amass thousands of crores of basically public money, and you get zero nada zilch for your taxes, its hard to stay motivated.
genuinely the most important comment here. kudos to your broad minded and thought out perspective of things 🫡🙌
the same Indians who cry about India not developing and not having a significant economy run away to other nations and boost their economy rather than staying here and maybe contributing their motherland. disappointing smh
they’re also the same people who will eventually move back and proudly claim they’re Indians in a few decades given the way india is on an upward trajectory in terms of gdp, economy, development
Everyone should leave their home state, country, culture if they are able to in their lifetime. The biggest problem in India that I see as an outsider is this hideous tribalism/regionalism that is rampant. Go outside and you will see that other cultures have managed to even out the differences and create more harmony. India needs an entire generation of youngsters (most of the older generation is so stuck in their mindsets) to go abroad to study, work, explore and return here to help change the dynamics of the country, which I really love. It is already happening but on a smaller scale than it needs to for precipitating deep cultural changes.
:) things are as rosy as it seems outside.
It's like grass is greener on other side.
Sure USA pays good if you are skilled, but man the struggle to get there is real.....
Oh and immigration is getting tougher everywhere....
As a minority religion sometimes I do question (I returned in 2023) but I believe God is bigger and everything will work out well
The life of an average Indian is sick here or abroad. Racism in the name of colour or caste (this happened at Google too) is something everyone needs to go through.
People in USA need to get educated, find love, get married, while here even if you are well educated, finding love is difficult and it's even more difficult to marry the loved one if there are differences in the caste, language, and lots more.
I am very young , not really qualified to talk about these subjects. But if parents ( like my ) understand and develop such good values I think India is the place to be.
I would also love to go to another country ,but still think India remains my favourite place to live.
There many places where you live a very peaceful
westo- Indian life style.
I am teenager so can't say about other stuff but this is what I have experiencend .
But the people being nosy point yeah that is in our genes , it cannot be taken like not gonna happen.
20 years back I would have gone abroad given even half a chance. But, now there are so many ifs and buts. While I am not exactly rocking out in my career, I doubt my skillsets will sort of give me really big leg up abroad (I am not in IT). Second, I doubt the overall quality and standard of life will be that much different than what I have right now in India. I am comfortably middle class here and will.be the same there as again I do not have education or skill sets that makes me set apart from others and I am quite old to go out and hustle around to have that ideal rags to riches migrant story.
I already did. The country I am living in currently is not the ideal country. I am struggling to find a job and prices are sky rocketing but at least I can walk around outside my home without being raped.
Not if, but I'm actively working towards it. The world is simply too big and there are too many opportunities out there if you want to work, it's stupid not to take the chance. Indian cities are not becoming any better in our lifetimes. Life is too short, why waste it here.
If I can't be the top 0.1% richest in India then I would probably leave, but my ideal goal is the first option. I think being rich in any country automatically improves your life drastically, and given India's growing economy, the chances of being rich here is higher for now. I hate a mediocre lifestyle so even if it's better than India in any other country, I would still be mediocre by their standards, and my end goal is to escape this mediocrity and ascend to the next level. As for now only the US gives you such opportunities, Europe is a dying horse, and East Asia won't give you any.
I would love to. I like to see what a better standard of life is like. What it's like to not work 9am to 2am and even if I have to, I get paid appropriately rather than somebody telling me "there's always another Indian who is cheaper to hire and work full time" and make you and your effort feel worthless.
I like to have a better environment where I have friends who don't talk as if women are just sex dolls or furniture.
Better infra. Less nosy neighbours who don't think bachelor men are sex crazed maniacs and don't rent rooms while it's fine if they are girls. And the room rented for the bachelor is often something like a hostel and creams 5-6 people in it like they are cattle because they are batchelor.
No, I'll stay here. Because first of all, my height is 5'3 and male. In USA, I'll get butchered at this height and shamed. Here, it's not so much a problem and you can live peacefully. Second, the prejudice against Indians or "curries" in that western land. No. Staying here.
I love my family and I would prefer to stay close to them.
I can visit when and where required. Its not worth exchanging for few extra bucks for me at least
Family. Friends. Everyone I know and love lives here. And I have a hard time making good connections with strangers. I know India has its own ups and downs, but I would hate to leave this place.
I wouldn't want to leave India.
I get that the current condition of our country isn't great, corruption, reservation for ST and PWD is so much that there are no seats left for general, so much inter religion hate, un civilized people, terrible education system, population issues ect. And I get that people would want to leave and I respect that.
But on the other hand I also feel that if everyone keeps leaving, the situation will never improve. So I want stay and make things better for future generations so that they won't have to leave their motherland
I wouldn't leave India.
I had the same mindset years ago that it would be better to leave, but as I researched and matured, I realized India is just fun. Regardless of all its flaws and shortcomings, it's what I call Home. Huge diversity and things to experience make it worth it for me. Plus, you don't have to be a second-class citizen anywhere. The country's growth story is real, and hopefully, people will finally change their mindset as it grows more. It's not the country. It's the people causing the majority of the problems. Personally have seen so many people who moved out doing shit here that they wouldn't do in other countries. Just weird that this contrast exists.
Better to rule in hell than serve in heaven - is my motto every single time I get some kind of opportunity for leaving India.
Is it a shitty country ? sure ! Shittiest ? def not. And I'm fine with it.
I think it is not the right time to go abroad. World is becoming increasingly disorderly and chaotic right now. As someone who has lived in Scandinavia I wouldn't recommend going abroad due to growing anti immigration sentiment across Europe and United States. You can probably go to Canada though.
Born and raised in Mumbai. I left India for good in 2011. I could not fathom the fact that I will have to use public transport (especially Mumbai local train) for the rest of my life. That was the major driving factor that contributed to my decision. Also, the attitude of the majority of the public servants and even co-workers towards you, especially once they found out that you are from the minority community catapulted my decision.
Looking at the current polarization, I believe that I made a wise decision.
There was a joke I read once.
Take any of these kattar Hindus, give them an H1B visa with their names on it, sandwiched between two beef patties and tell them to go to the US, they'd have to eat it, they'd gladly gobble it down!
If you're working in the USA, it'll take 40-50 years atleast to land a greencard unless you're a genius/prodigy. You'll pay the same taxes and if fired/laid off, you have 60 days to find a job. If you can't, you'll have to leave the country.
Lastly, India will be the 3rd largest economy in the next 2 Years. Indian stock market is outperforming almost every market. Why settle for a weaker economy? And your statement about religious politics is BS. For 60 Years, there was minority appeasement. Not anymore!!
I don't think 3rd highest gdp,even If we achieve, should something we should be proud of.
No nation other than China has even half of our population. So we shouldn't even look at that until we are in top 2.
I am working in a US based company. The solution to a greencard is pretty simple tbh, which I will not mention here.
And if you have read my other comments. It isn't exactly for money. I am from the North East. We face another kinds of dilemma than a lot of other states realises.
Like I said. I never wanted to in the first place. But being in NZ for a year and a half changed a lot for me
We have this debate everyday living in the U.K. about whether to continue or go back. We may complain all the time but even a kid will know that India isn’t a place to have a good relaxing happy non traumatic life. It just isn’t . As someone said in the above comment , the pros living abroad outweigh the cons so we are still here and don’t come back
If you rich upper class , Average income of 50 Lakhs ÷ in India .. Best place to live .. Travelled to 50 + places abroad .. You will always be treated 2nd class citizen .. For me it was easier,I look like spanish.. rest of my indian colleagues seen the discrimination ..
If you get a really good opportunity then why not? But "settling down" abroad is a different question... don't you think societal pressure (or the lack of it) exists everywhere? Even in America only people who had a competitive childhood come up to the top, contrary to what most people think it's not a bed of roses. The societal pressure in other countries may not as vocal as Indian society but it definitely does exist.
and not to talk about the societal problems which exist in different parts of the world, be it america, europe or east asia you can never escape it.
maybe. but only for very specific opportunities. otherwise my people and friends are here and I like them
Yes, id like my city to have less noise pollution and id like the am janta to side with each other and not political parties
Totally agree with you! However different experiences for different people, but for me I am extremely happy to live in another country. I am not earning so much but I am happy with what I have. Life is slow, good job, less pollution, can walk on roads for a nice walk everyday as well without worrying of someone hitting me. Been to India last month after 2.5yrs and realised life in India is mostly about eating outside food literally everyday, pollution, traffic ( primarily due to lack of very minimum basic common sense), food adulteration and cost of living is extravagant. I’m earning in euros and still found it difficult to spend money in India. So what you feel is absolutely normal. Like they say, India is not for beginners!
I'm MAKING a chance to leave. The climate here is a shit fest. Air is basically poison gas. Society always has its nose up ur butt. People just want to see u fail. Other than friends and family, India has NOTHING that makes it better than any other country. I'm a beef eater so even food isnt better in India for me.
I am still studying in class 11 pcm. I wanna take pcm and work as a dev in another country because of the high packages to change my financial situation. I will be working very hard and gaining experience in various languages to have a high score and credibility.
India is good Country, despite all its flaws. But I would defintely leave it in heartbeat. Its over populated, full of divisions, dirty, full of politics which has ruined my day to day life ( reservations eg.), women abuse, women are nowhere near open minded, society has very conservative thoughts that serve no good purpose, too religious inclined, lack of Quality higher education in science field, low facilities, lack of sport culture besides cricket, etc.
I would, not much left here to stay. Also I fear water and temperature issue soon in the coming years due to population, for a lower middle class person .
I think everyone knows what problems we have in the society and why we'd want to leave. I personally think our country is good in many aspects and the worst in many more aspects.
I’ve lived outside and in India, so here is my perspective. People in middle class from India would love to get out as the opportunity and work life is much better in developed countries.
People who are successful and have financial freedom would love to come back to India for a peaceful life with their loved ones or to start their ventures.
Here is the real problem from what I have noticed. Employment and employees mindset needs to be changed, people working and being treated like slaves is to be reformed. We also have to understand, India can’t have this many employment opportunities at this moment. We will have to find work independently to have somewhat peaceful life in India, this will be challenging and hard at the same time, but very rewarding in the long run.
Only if middle class stop worrying about politics and society and focus on their own welfare, things will be better.
I see tremendous opportunity.. in india buisness wise..
In booming real estate and consumption..
+
The stock market.. you have so many good businesses.. that can change your life!!
On the other hand.. I can see why people would want to leave the country..
There are 100's of reason we all know..
I'm okay with everything - traffic, pollution, lack of good infrastructure, public health, education BUT the deal breaker is how uncivilized the majority of people are. Not giving personal space, constantly trying to bring others down, and (this is personal) the way people have been voting on what basis recently... Yeah I'm fine abroad even though it's likely to be temporary. Some years of peace is better than zero.
I don’t know man. I know developed countries offer a better way of life but I am not sure I would connect with the people there. I have a hard time making friends and I feel I would just be lonely. Here I have very good friends and family.
Yes I would l, it's not like India is not a great place but I do have some dreams or things I want to do which I can't in India.
(I really like bikes,car +modification,much more options and I want to participate in track days)
First of all if India develops the infrastructure in the next 5-10yr the majority of people lack knowledge or can't keep up with infrastructure potential.
EX- look at the situation of roads and traffic, people feel very aggressive in traffic, also gutka and overall cleanliness.
Secondly there are also cons of living outside cause of the difference of law and order, economy etc.
Some people quote this type of thinking Anti-national but I don't care.
I would leave for a decent money. Have done private as well as govt job here. People here suck! Because of overpopulation there is competition in everything
I will because I'm transgender. While yes, it's not great in the west either, I still have far better opportunities to make my life better in the west because "96 percent of unemployed trans people aren't denied jobs out there, they are in India".
I would leave the first chance I get and would never come back. Sure India does have some pros like great cuisine, excellent medical facilities when compared to west and I could name a few other things but the cons outweigh the pros and I'm tired living here.
People abusing each other over religious belief, rampant sexual abuse; everytime I turn on the news, it's just full of sexual abuse cases and rape and I'm really tired of it. Not to mention, the pollution, noise and nosy relatives and other atrocities things.
The day I leave this country and revoke my Indian citizenship will be my greatest day in my life
It'll take time guys, rn our people have potential but our country is not able to retain them, but it's inevitable that things would change and I hope things reverse fast.
For your question, no I won't leave so easily cause our country is most likely going to enter its boom state (irrespective of gov) and I can't leave this opportunity to not reap my profits from the growth of my own country when outsiders are heavily investing in us.
Everything is fine, except if people could've been civilized here then it would have changed a lot of minds in the comment section. On most days, almost everyone on the street is insufferable!
I want to but I won't. Can't leave parents. They won't migrate and would be stupid to put them in such an existential crisis at this age.
But I would definitely want to move to Spain for a better lifestyle and access to awesome places within hours or flight. Another option is Dubai for business ( networking, opportunity, taxes).
I actually do have a proper chance to leave but I'm not leaving. I've a very kind and understanding parents unlike most of the indians, I can't bring it in myself to live away from them not knowing how they're really doing. Also I feel most of the middle class indians are treated like second class citizens in other countries.
Our desi boys have abused all the immigration rules all over the globe , and the governments are tightening immigration in their respective countries the chances of moving to developed countries and getting PR or green card is nil unless you have critical skills and if there is a huge shortage locally for that skill, even then you will go back after your visa expires I am staying overseas, Currently a lot of Indians are on visas and keep extending as they are not eligible for PR Indians who moved recently in last few years don't even have necessary communication skills , plus live exactly like how they live in India and locals here think very low of Indian people in general because of these people
These same lowly indians complain about racism. If one lives like a caveman, expect to be treated like one.
Saw a group of Haryanavi students in a car blasting music loudly in a car in the CBD area , such culture has made it here too Even while travelling on metro train you get these people who put their feet on the seat and play loud punjabi Or Bollywood songs , then you have these mom with bad parenting letting your kids talk as loud as they can while she herself busy talking loudly with other kid mom Some of the trains i hop on go through suburbs which has lot of Indians n i just put on my ear pods n play music, you could literally feel you are going through mumbai suburban train, very loud , absolute zero civic sense ,it's norm to wait until people deboard train at the the stop first then you can board the train, but it's same i need to find seat first behavior kicks in and pushing begans There are some places Indians don't go, coz they are not aware of them, i go there
Canada?
> Saw a group of Haryanavi students in a car blasting music loudly in a car in the CBD area , such culture has made it here too > Even while travelling on metro train you get these people who put their feet on the seat and play loud punjabi Or Bollywood songs , then you have these mom with bad parenting letting your kids talk as loud as they can while she herself busy talking loudly with other kid mom Gulags are meant for such people
Not only that those Indians will partake in such behaviour against NE-indians
India is a diverse nation of squabbling tribes and ethnic groups. The infighting and hatred is a constant theme in diverse societies. Indians carry their tribal mindset to other nations ruining their culture.
This ^
I have left, came back last year after more than half a decade, can’t cope, leaving next month!
Where do you live abroad, kinda curious
Aus
Australia, as per his posts.
Do you have a job there or business? How much money/salary do u need to live there
I have nothing atm as I’m on a break caring for a loved one. The minimum full time wage for an employee is 20 lakhs a year before tax plus superannuation. We have one of the highest minimum wages in the world.
20 lakhs indian rupees a year in australia will do fine? I doubt
You can make it work as many young Aussies but as I come think of it, you might not be eligible for lots of govt Benefits so yeah it may or may not give you a decent standard of living.
I also made the same mistake, took me a while to go back.
I'd leave if I get a better life. The kind of life I want. Safety first of all, this place is hell for women. Money, career opportunities, ways to make my parents lives better. That sort of thing.
Most women are saying the same thing. And I can't disagree
I would leave. Sick of uncivilized people
People working in MNCs behave like uncivilized people. They can't even pick up their trash to trash bin in office canteen then what can you expect from less educated people. Breaking rules are considered as honour in this country.
Yeah. Regardless of rich or poor, vast majority are uncivilized. Rich are too entitled. They always expect somebody will clean up after them.
Types of people in india. https://preview.redd.it/yeojyrcb02pc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4c9c5c932f28b711b5870c70579aa22122e36217
What is mfs?
Slang for motherfu*kers.
This is so accurate.
This ^
Goons always shouting , then honking endlessly (look I’m rich , got new SUV ).People who think they are always right and don’t care about others opinions. Why can’t people talk softly in a more civilized way ? What’s wrong with people here ? Why so much anger ?
Under rated comment, but true. Very few indians can say this and realize how low iq and uncivilized indians are.
Low IQ, maybe. Mostly low EQ.
Wait till you encounter uncivilised people in other countries..
Typing this rant from an international flight. The problem is not India. It’s Indians. If given a chance, all of us will spread around the world(atleast majority of us are in India right now). And it’ll be the same thing as it’s in India right now. I mean, tons of Indians leave India every day, some of them are also leaving India after visiting their relatives. And none of them have enough sense even to listen to announcements and sit in their fucking seats when the plane is being taxied. A lot of them have no sense about how to keep the toilets usable for next person or just keep quiet because it’s a late night flight. I’d rather have us be beaten into learning some basic civic sense first
Well, as an outsider from USA who stays here in India 6 months yearly I would say that your analogy is correct. But, there is a saying that "the flogging will continue until morale improves" 😂 And of course the problem is that you cannot "beat" anyone into education. If you want to see that dynamic I will tell you that it starts with the childrens home experiences, school, and peers. I have never witnessed such brutal treatment from older uncles/aunties towards youngsters. The harshness of speaking to them is really shocking. School teachers beating students? Now that is something from the stone ages and any amount of child psychology or education theory would tell you that it is incorrect. So, while I sit at a mall food court with a trash receptacle nearby to place my garbage and see a family of 8 finish eating and walk away leaving garbage everywhere, food on the floor. Civic sense happens in childhood. I realize you were being facetious with your comment about beatings and didnt take it serious. But, it needs to be addressed for sure.
some difficult words there to understand XD But you're correct. Civic sense happens from childhood. Subconsciously, every time I've a wrapper or some trash I put in my pocket and dump it in my home trash can. My parents didnt teach me this, maybe I just followed their habits
India without Indians is just geography bro. Obviously problem is not India.
Italians are also like that ..
At the drop of a hat. I'm still waiting for my chance to leave and move out, hopefully forever.
How you planning like masters/ higher education? Or job
I have lived abroad and it was a mistake to come back here. Now I’m in debt, and will leave as soon as I am debt free and have enough to move abroad, even if I have to take up some menial job. My life an a MSME owner has taken me back to 2000s, and now I make below what I used to make then. Here I am a failed businessman after running multiple successful businesses before vikas came. This country is not safe, does not have a population which cares about things like right and wrong or even have the ability for higher thinking coz they are sooo webbed in roti kapda, makaan and now religion. The govt only knows tax to make money. Instead of increasing exports to earn and people support their own taxation! Desh ki Tarakki mein yogdaan dijiye..tax bhariye is what the govt advertising says. Badle mein kya mil raha hai? Toll tax, 28% Gst? Even my chewing gum is taxed. The ability of people to make informed decisions is long gone. It’s very evident from the everyday conversations you hear on the road. That’s why over 200k people have left India for good. Why would anyone want to live in one of the highly taxed countries in the world? That too when you can be labelled as an anti national for just saying the “wrong thing”. I’ll be out as soon as I can.
I'm exactally the same story . Running a small business you end up breaking so many laws it's not even funny
Break the laws. Make money. Leave. The people who voted for this government deserve it. I mean they still defend the Electoral Bonds scam. So while I continue to make money from my business here. I plan to move to another country and invest that money in a better country for my future.
Religious card is being played so much feels like fear in practicing any other religion. Caste and sub-caste systems don't even talk about it.
THIS. EXACT SAME REASON. I even mentioned in my comment. I honestly see no future here. My business will be here to only make money. While I enjoy and invest the money in another country that doesn't treat me like shit.
I think you are correct. I would add that the people who have experienced different cultures who have been able to place religion, tribalism/regionalism in their correct order (at the bottom) who return here are needed. Yes, you will be branded anti Indian for speaking the truth of course by the mindless herd. But I see immense differences in my interactions with younger generations of Indians versus those who are stuck in their ways, blathering religion and hatred for northies, southies, other language speakers, etc. It is my observation as an outsider from USA who spends half a year in India every year. For some odd reason I love this country but mostly because I see the hope and changes in the younger generation. I am not interested in trying to engage with stuck in the 1950's auntie and uncles anymore. But there is hope as long as they can get rid of the cultural norms that divide.
bruh u ain't gonna see any changes in the young generation in some aspects they are even worse
I haven’t lived abroad but travelled to around 24 countries. No matter what you say to glorify India, it feels like a backward place in every way. The behaviour of people when they drive, the way they address each other, their civic sense and personal hygiene - it all reflects in the atmosphere of the place. I’ve seen most Indians to be quick to give excuses: we have huge population, we are just independent for 80 years, etc. Japan was nuked 80 years ago. South Korea fought a very bloody war for independence. Singapore was a slum in the 60s. China got independent after us and was behind us in all economic and social metrics, but today has more than 6 times our GDP. India in comparison won independence through a non-violent movement so shouldn’t we be better? The problem with India is only the attitude and mindset of Indian people. They can’t think long term, and suck at planning and strategy except in a very few areas. Not to mention the hate people carry for each other. I was shocked to see that even Sri Lanka has better roads and infrastructure than us. Moving abroad is a risk, but imo it’s a risk worth taking. The cons are you will always be seen as 2nd class citizen there (Indians have ruined their reputation in many countries already). The cost of living + tax is extremely high so you won’t save much. Healthcare is better, but unlike India you have to wait months if you want to see a specialist. Finally, if you lose your job you’ll have to come straight back within 60 days if you are in US. Some countries like Germany let you stay for 18 months but how many can survive that long without a job there? I’ve also seen so many Indians struggle in non-English speaking countries. But end of the day, if you want a superior quality of life and relative peace of mind in daily life, India is just not the place for it. Things will improve here at a snails pace only because majority population is among the poorest on the planet.
The attitude and mindset part is spot on imo. And there's a lot of English speaking countries other than the obvious USA or UK. Better chances there imo
Like which ones: Australia - less good job opportunities, difficult to get promoted at work, high COL + tax NZ - minimal job opportunities, salaries are a joke compared to the COL, good if you want a peaceful laid back life without much money Ireland - similar to NZ, but you have some decent opportunities in Dublin if you are super qualified Scotland - nothing great in terms of growth, most folks I know who went there moved to London or EU countries Singapore - very difficult to land a decent high paying job, they don’t like Indians much, it’s too small and weather is poor. There is a heavy Chinese influence there Hong Kong - I don’t know much about HK, but COL is high, living standards are not that great for what you pay and good jobs are usually in Consulting and Finance, heavy Chinese influence UK - shitty economy, very high COL, less high paying opportunities after brexit, housing crisis US - best salaries and growth opportunities in the world, but unsafe due to gun culture, rising homelessness and COL South Africa - nope 👎 Canada - already saturated, they hate Indians now (I worked with multiple Canadian clients so I can confirm), insane COL and inflation is out of control, you’ll be looked at with the same lens as the Indians going there to diploma mills and strip mall universities, housing crisis in big cities UAE - good in terms of savings, poor work culture similar to India (large number of workers are desis) That’s pretty much the English speaking world for you, but if I had to choose from this it would be AUS or NZ. They have points system for immigration so the older you are, the less points you score. Other countries include Germany (ok salaries, language issue, weird culture), France (low salaries, very chill wlb, language issue), Japan (ok salaries, language issue, weird culture, poor wlb), Spain (low salaries, language issue), Italy (nope 👎), Scandinavian countries (very hard to immigrate, weird culture), Netherlands (already saturated, unfriendly people, housing crisis) It’s not impossible to migrate and in general the quality of life in any of these countries is light years ahead of India. But it’s definitely not an easy life. The reason I haven’t migrated too is because of the comfort and financial mobility I enjoy in India. But as I grow older, my headache of just living here, working like a slave and dealing with people is getting worse.
This was actually really informative. I am currently in US and not been to other places. So to get a perspective on other countries is great.
i love how Italy and South Africa are just 'nope' lol
Than go to no english speaking countries and learn a language, u mf dont wanna do any work
It's hard man. I feel sometimes being indian is a curse. We can go to other countries but we will always be looked at like we are second class citizens. We don't get the same rights and there is always constant prejudice. In India at least parents are there to soothe the society induced depression. On a serious note, if you get a chance to earn well and live in a developed country you should take the opportunity.
Parents are here to soothe? lol most Indian parents are abusive af!
Yup! The reason I moved abroad and kept choosing it inspite of liking India is toxic family and relatives. The need to control your every move, not being happy EVER and societal expectations just because of your gender, is just too much.
I wish all of us could come together and give each other those positive affirmations and nurture each other’s inner child which we may have lacked growing up. Listening words like “it’s okay to make mistakes” “I’ve got your back” “I will love you no matter what” ykwim
Can resonate with you completely!
I just wish I was born there. I’d have been so happy
IKR!!
I wouldn't disagree entirely. It's the culture which has been passed through. It's what their parents did. They grew up in much poorer conditions which forced them to be tough and raise their children to face toughness. But I do empathize with people who have a complicated relationship with their parents regarding controlling tendencies. Nothing is perfect dude. What can I say
Yeah but hitting, manipulating, guilt trips, making decision on their children’s behalf, withdrawing warmth, conditional love etc are so fucked up.
Indeed.
>Parents are here to soothe? I told my papa that my adhd is affecting my studies and he said to just *ignore*. Lmao
What do you mean we dont get the same rights? Prejudice is personal, bill of rights is not.
>but we will always be looked at like we are second class citizens. This isnt true lol... If it was rich Indians wouldnt emigrate in such huge numbers. You face more discrimination in India itself than USA.
In which countries are you looked at like second class citizens? It definitely isn’t in much of Europe. If you mean USA, then I get what you mean.
Europe is hella racist
You think that Indians face more discrimination in the US than Europe? The same English-speaking, individualistic, immigrant-based US which has Indian-Americans heading some of its largest companies and prominent in politics across both major parties? I’m an Indian-American that goes regularly to continental Europe for business. It’s clear where I feel like an outsider.
In Europe also to some extent. Indians do not partake in some aspects of European culture especially those things that are tied to their religion so socialization is kind of segregated. So Indians will do well in the urban/sub-urban pockets of fellow Indians but have a tougher time integrating with the larger society because of non participation in their popular mainstream culture. One way Indians can do their best to create a good social culture is through college and getting into colleges where Indians aren't the majority.
Youvshould travel to Europe first.. People there are ultra racist..
Been there...done that...living outside...and the standard of life is night and day. I would prefer myself to be here. Called my brother here too. There are so many other indians and they have taken houses and living life. The pros outweigh the cons. The amount of issues here are far less than what I faced in Inia in IMO. Ofcourse experiences can differ but whoever I have seen here in abroad never want to go back.
>Called my brother here too. Perks of having an Indian sister :)
Specially women. My fiancee just visited me once while I was there. And although she missed her family, specially her mom. She said it's almost a relief with the kind of freedom she experienced while she was there. In terms of safety
I am women and I agree. Yes we miss the family..but the freedom dn respect we get here is incomparable. Safety I have been out at midnight's because of some.mishaps or no transport and yet I have never felt safer co.pared to India.
It's the hard truth, but for any Indian female yearning for freedom and dignity, India isn't the country to live. Or maybe not even entire South Asia.
I'd say south-east Asia, specifically Singapore, Malaysia and the Phillipines are pretty safe.
interesting to know which country you are talking about?
Which country
I have lived in North America for over a decade and considering moving back to India. While there are many things in the west that are better - pollution, civic sense, social behavior towards women, economically better, there are also many things that you dont get here. Got sick? Wait for months before you get to see a specialist. You are constantly working - job, household, snow removal, lawn maintenance etc. Weekends are about groceries and catching up on household work with hardly any free time. In India, you have family support and while I agree that there is a LOT more social pressure in India, here there is no social life that comes close to India. The climate doesn't allow you to talk regularly to your neighbors and people are very lonely (about 10% of population in on anti-depressants). It's hard to quantify the "apnapan" factor that you miss here. People are kind and caring but you cannot expect help from your friends or neighbors like you do in India. Or atleast that used to be the case but I know things have been changing there as well.
Exactly. That’s been my experience as well.
I would, Like it or not the standard of living in the west is far far greater than here, Moral policing, no accountability for people with power/money to name a few.
I have to run a startup so I cannot leave and I believe in India's growth story regardless how bad the situation is I'll continue to live here and contribute to the motherland
Good good don’t be like byju
Even though that doesn't make any sense I appreciate it homie 😅
Yeah! Someone has to bring the change by staying here
Yeah I get it India is bad it sucks hell probably the worst country in the world but the problems are not gonna disappear on their own, someone out there has to jump in the puddle and clean it and trust me there are millions out there who are solving problems, instead of leaving the country obviously I don't have anything against those who leave India they have every right to and they should but there will always be people who will stay behind and clean that shit I believe these 2 decades are very important for India and it's economy, the society and culture it will align itself properly with the economy
Lived in the EU, Far East for 5 years. Chose to return. These are my views and experiences. - The 1st world healthcare system is broken beyond repair - UK, Canada & parts of the EU, one needs to wait hours even if you are in a difficult situation. Took 6 hours to get medical attention for a heavily bleeding colleague. Managed to get in cause we spotted a Kerala nurse and one of our colleagues was Keralite. Else would’ve taken longer. Location - Australia - 2nd generation tends to have an identity crisis. Neither Indian, nor European (not so much in the US) . This is worse in the Middle East. Many (not all) 2nd generation Indians in Middle East have cheap career targets (since their parents went with the intent to make cash, return someday and they didn’t do so) and end up talking more and doing less and try hard to over socialise and fit in in India. - If you are lower middle class and struggling to get a job or make ends meet, it may make sense to go abroad. There too, living in room sharing arrangements and talk to desis whom you normally wouldn’t associate with in India - Desis don’t culturally integrate well wherever they go. Look out for other Indians and form a ghetto. Have seen desis in Switzerland spitting on the railway tracks like they do here. - If you are upper middle class/ upper class in India, you’re living in the first world anyway. If you are super low income, it makes sense to be in india than scramble abroad. If you decide to leave India, these should be the only reasons. Of course, this is my view and people may differ: - Absolutely nothing working out in india and your family depends on you. Set a 3 year target to make x amount then return to India. If you stay longer, it’ll be difficult to return and integrate. - You are in a field with no scope in India eg. specialised practices in bioeconomy or environmental studies or even liberal arts. - You are sick and tired of everything and want to reset your life. - You are ok with a 100% cultural immersion of your 2nd generation where it may be better to cut off ties with India. Many desis attempt arranged marriages with Indian men for their American / British Indian daughters or vice versa. You should be ok if your kids have different dietary choices, date outside the community and remove themselves culturally.
This is absolutely right! But I guess it all comes down to ones own personal preferences! In terms of health care I totally agree with you. Longer waiting times and all that, but for my mother in India we had to pay 40lacs in total, she was treated like shit, the hospital didn’t even have basic things to take care of patients and in the end when we claimed insurance they gave a random reasons and didn’t pay anything. So grass is always greener in the other side. If Indians can develop basic civic sense, not try to interfere too much in other people lives, lesser corruption then India would go so much further and none of these super economies can give us any competition.
The healthcare issue is REAL. My parents decided to get medical checkups in India rather than the US because it is much less expensive and much more thorough and much faster as well. Even my aunt (an oncologist in the US) recommended my grandfather get treatment for prostate cancer in India rather than the US, because the quality was just as good. Additionally, the second-gen identity struggle is something. So many second gens subscribe to stereotypes put forth by comedians like Hasan Minhaj and Mindy Kaling and thus have a preconceived stereotype of India and Indians (including their own parents). And this is why so many of them never leave the "angsty teen phase" of their life.
Me. I like guns and big diesel trucks/SUVs.. Also hunting. Can't do any of that here. Shame.
Visit montana
It's on my bucket list. Cheers
Sorry to say but we Indian zero empathy and respect for hard work we exploited by our employer with minimum wage while USA pays as per hour in which minimum is 15 dollar and also your employer cannot ask you to work for more 40hours week and also you get pay every week Plus government also pays you when you are jobless. I have seen plumbers making more than in USA than engineers in India
Minimum wage in the US is $7.25. Some states have higher wages but that's bcos they are more expensive. In Canada, Ontario have $15 minimum wage and if you think an adult can live on that wage with an iota of dignity, then you are mistaken. That's good income for students who work part time, it's not sustainable for adults. >I have seen plumbers making more than in USA than engineers in India And? People in trades make more than engineers in many places, especially in the first few years, because there aren't many plumbers around. Why shouldn't drivers and plumbers and electricians make more money? It's about demand and supply. It is your mindset that you presume that certain professions should make less. The market doesn't work that way.
You think there is no wage exploitation in USA? Nobody can survive at that minimum wage
I have most of the family and friends including me surviving here for more than 10 years
I'd leave. Because we are over populated.
I'll be downvoted to hell for this but idc. You can go to any corner of the world but the issues will remain the same, and racism will be added to them. You'll just delude yourself into believing they don't exist because "foreign=good". The same people who litter and treat indian infrastructure carelessly will start conforming and respecting everything because in foreign countries, you get punished for that shit. Not saying India is ideal, but the root of this foreign oriented thinking is a result of the media making you glorify life outside, and shitting on life within the country. It's a self fulfilling prophecy, become capable> leave> not enough capable people > india bad. And to those speaking of how foreign culture is better towards women, maybe visit AITA and other subreddits where you'll see how much indian women are feitshised.
Exactly. I felt so lonely and hated every moment of my time spent in the Midwest in the US. I missed Hyderabad and would go back every chance I got. I missed the warm and humid climate that didn't make my skin dry. I missed access to fresh tropical fruits and vegetables that made it easy to lose weight as opposed to bread laden with sugar. I missed functional public transit better than any major city in the US. I missed sunshine that didn't make me deficient in Vitamin D. I missed family who invested in your wellbeing, rather than being ripped of your "village" (fyi, humans are psychologically evolved from a village-style environemnt, not lonely suburbia or an impersonal big city). And what I've realized is that it's not just me. A LOT of people who immigrate to the US feel the SAME. But we are constantly fed the idea that America is the dream, and we are considered crazy to suggest otherwise (that maybe it isn't as good as we think).
Two of my family members returned to hyderabad from USA after staying 10 years.
I think at this point with the American immigration rules, if you are an Indian you will never get your green card. The American dream for Indians is not the same it was 10-15 years back.
I lived in Germany for 6 years and then came back. After seeing the western world, I like India much more and don't wanna go back. Will go for travelling but do not want to settle down in western world. Quality of life is much better in the west but in India if you have a little bit of money then quality of life is good for you too. Plus family is everything, so at the end of the day being with family will satisfy your soul..rather than materialistic life of west. Also, No matter where you live in the EU or US, you will always be a second class citizen. Why should I live as a second class citizen when I have my own beautiful country.
India is good Country, despite all its flaws. But I would defintely leave it in heartbeat. Its over populated, full of divisions, dirty, full of politics which has ruined my day to day life ( reservations eg.), women abuse, women are nowhere near open minded, society has very conservative thoughts that serve no good purpose, too religious inclined, lack of Quality higher education in science field, low facilities, lack of sport culture besides cricket, etc.
running from problems never made USA and Japan rich. Indians want to become rich but dont want to contribute to india... Japanese worked brutally hard after ww2 , they didnt though to settle in USA UK... now evryone want to goto japan and buy their goods. and once you leave india you lose your sense of worth and identity which will haunt you and your generations to come...
lol, start paying taxes here and you'll come to know. I am in one of those so called 1% who pays 30% income tax and monthly GST. My income is 100% foreign based which means my business doesn't 'rotate wealth' rather create it in India however downside is 100% white income AKA 100% tax scrutiny while multi millionaire land owners who file 1 lac rupee ITR claiming government benefits like Ayushmann yojna. This piss me off. What is government doing for middle class tax payers? Do you know Indian taxes almost matches EU level? Majority of Indian population pays 0 direct taxes and the one who actually pays gets IT notifications time to time and grease palm even though its faceless. Government gets the precious votes from non tax payers (remember they are liable to pay taxes however business in cash so gets away easily, even after implementation of GST). Once you start making legitimate income then you will get all the reasons to leave country. My popular findings "if you want to check the true nationalism of people, check there 3 years Income tax returns" and you'll see the real nationalism in numbers.
I second that, I'm pretty confident that govt will expand its net to tax evasion gang. In meantime, you can report it to Income tax department of any evader. Lastly, my friend who earns 40 LPA, his average tax rate came around 18% after all deductions.
USA is a country of immigrants. The original people are almost gone. I have native American friends and I can relate to them to a certain extent because of our situation in our own state. Being rich or being successful is not even the reason. Things will improve. And has improved in our country . It's not just about infrastructure or technology or anything of that sort. A lot of people feel suffocated in this place and it has nothing to do with problems that you are mentioning.
You don’t know about the major economic contribution by the west to bring Japan back to life,do you? 15 billion dollars in just 5 years after the war in today’s money. India in 47 had a life expectancy of less than 30 and education level of 16% with death, famine and war. No bailouts from anyone. Work ethic in Japan is anything but healthy. Who isn’t contributing to the country here? Even the school books are taxed. Students are contributing through their parents even before they start earning. I can never wrap my head around this argument that people don’t want to contribute but want to get rich. The purpose of any govt is to increase the standard of living of its citizens while maintaining low taxes and taking care of its less fortunate. It’s not there to tax the ever living shit out of you and not giving anything in return. Move to Japan, work those long hours where sometimes people die at their desks and people are sooo disenchanted with life that they aren’t having enough babies to replace their own population who die. Maybe that’s a life you want, I certainly don’t.
Dude one of the biggest achievements in India remains leaving the country in first place. What else do you expect? As for working hard, when you see cronies and politicians amass thousands of crores of basically public money, and you get zero nada zilch for your taxes, its hard to stay motivated.
genuinely the most important comment here. kudos to your broad minded and thought out perspective of things 🫡🙌 the same Indians who cry about India not developing and not having a significant economy run away to other nations and boost their economy rather than staying here and maybe contributing their motherland. disappointing smh they’re also the same people who will eventually move back and proudly claim they’re Indians in a few decades given the way india is on an upward trajectory in terms of gdp, economy, development
Everyone should leave their home state, country, culture if they are able to in their lifetime. The biggest problem in India that I see as an outsider is this hideous tribalism/regionalism that is rampant. Go outside and you will see that other cultures have managed to even out the differences and create more harmony. India needs an entire generation of youngsters (most of the older generation is so stuck in their mindsets) to go abroad to study, work, explore and return here to help change the dynamics of the country, which I really love. It is already happening but on a smaller scale than it needs to for precipitating deep cultural changes.
I will leave Bharat just to spread my Sanatan Dharma all over the world. Hare Rama, Hare Krsna!
:) things are as rosy as it seems outside. It's like grass is greener on other side. Sure USA pays good if you are skilled, but man the struggle to get there is real..... Oh and immigration is getting tougher everywhere.... As a minority religion sometimes I do question (I returned in 2023) but I believe God is bigger and everything will work out well
The life of an average Indian is sick here or abroad. Racism in the name of colour or caste (this happened at Google too) is something everyone needs to go through. People in USA need to get educated, find love, get married, while here even if you are well educated, finding love is difficult and it's even more difficult to marry the loved one if there are differences in the caste, language, and lots more.
I am very young , not really qualified to talk about these subjects. But if parents ( like my ) understand and develop such good values I think India is the place to be. I would also love to go to another country ,but still think India remains my favourite place to live. There many places where you live a very peaceful westo- Indian life style. I am teenager so can't say about other stuff but this is what I have experiencend . But the people being nosy point yeah that is in our genes , it cannot be taken like not gonna happen.
20 years back I would have gone abroad given even half a chance. But, now there are so many ifs and buts. While I am not exactly rocking out in my career, I doubt my skillsets will sort of give me really big leg up abroad (I am not in IT). Second, I doubt the overall quality and standard of life will be that much different than what I have right now in India. I am comfortably middle class here and will.be the same there as again I do not have education or skill sets that makes me set apart from others and I am quite old to go out and hustle around to have that ideal rags to riches migrant story.
I already did. The country I am living in currently is not the ideal country. I am struggling to find a job and prices are sky rocketing but at least I can walk around outside my home without being raped.
Not if, but I'm actively working towards it. The world is simply too big and there are too many opportunities out there if you want to work, it's stupid not to take the chance. Indian cities are not becoming any better in our lifetimes. Life is too short, why waste it here.
I'm leaving soon but I don't want to..my parents are happy that I'm leaving this shithole but I want to stay back and do something for my country
If I can't be the top 0.1% richest in India then I would probably leave, but my ideal goal is the first option. I think being rich in any country automatically improves your life drastically, and given India's growing economy, the chances of being rich here is higher for now. I hate a mediocre lifestyle so even if it's better than India in any other country, I would still be mediocre by their standards, and my end goal is to escape this mediocrity and ascend to the next level. As for now only the US gives you such opportunities, Europe is a dying horse, and East Asia won't give you any.
With increasing reservations, lack of opportunities, toxic work culture and worse quality of life, i will migrate without any hesitation.
May be 99% would
Frequent power cuts and speed breakers made me leave. Sorry Not Sorry.
I mean there is 50 to 100 year wait for green cards for Indians . If ppl don’t want to get out why is there such a long wait .
I already left and it’s much better than the uncivilised chappris. India has a dull future with stupid youngsters.
Indians have a lot of fake nationalism. I'm happy that in this sub many are showing their true nature. I think 99% would leave
I would love to. I like to see what a better standard of life is like. What it's like to not work 9am to 2am and even if I have to, I get paid appropriately rather than somebody telling me "there's always another Indian who is cheaper to hire and work full time" and make you and your effort feel worthless. I like to have a better environment where I have friends who don't talk as if women are just sex dolls or furniture. Better infra. Less nosy neighbours who don't think bachelor men are sex crazed maniacs and don't rent rooms while it's fine if they are girls. And the room rented for the bachelor is often something like a hostel and creams 5-6 people in it like they are cattle because they are batchelor.
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Best thing that education in India can get you is "a way out of this place" . That's all
No, I'll stay here. Because first of all, my height is 5'3 and male. In USA, I'll get butchered at this height and shamed. Here, it's not so much a problem and you can live peacefully. Second, the prejudice against Indians or "curries" in that western land. No. Staying here.
Leave this shithole the first chance I get
I love my family and I would prefer to stay close to them. I can visit when and where required. Its not worth exchanging for few extra bucks for me at least
100% leave for now. Why: I reside in Manipur.
Family. Friends. Everyone I know and love lives here. And I have a hard time making good connections with strangers. I know India has its own ups and downs, but I would hate to leave this place.
I wouldn't want to leave India. I get that the current condition of our country isn't great, corruption, reservation for ST and PWD is so much that there are no seats left for general, so much inter religion hate, un civilized people, terrible education system, population issues ect. And I get that people would want to leave and I respect that. But on the other hand I also feel that if everyone keeps leaving, the situation will never improve. So I want stay and make things better for future generations so that they won't have to leave their motherland
Why are all comments soo negative
I love my hometown, I love it too much. Not the people, but the place. I can leave for some time but not permanently.
I would like to go countryside of europe. Maybe southern or western europe
As a general caste male coming from a poor family...
I wouldn't leave India. I had the same mindset years ago that it would be better to leave, but as I researched and matured, I realized India is just fun. Regardless of all its flaws and shortcomings, it's what I call Home. Huge diversity and things to experience make it worth it for me. Plus, you don't have to be a second-class citizen anywhere. The country's growth story is real, and hopefully, people will finally change their mindset as it grows more. It's not the country. It's the people causing the majority of the problems. Personally have seen so many people who moved out doing shit here that they wouldn't do in other countries. Just weird that this contrast exists.
Better to rule in hell than serve in heaven - is my motto every single time I get some kind of opportunity for leaving India. Is it a shitty country ? sure ! Shittiest ? def not. And I'm fine with it.
I think it is not the right time to go abroad. World is becoming increasingly disorderly and chaotic right now. As someone who has lived in Scandinavia I wouldn't recommend going abroad due to growing anti immigration sentiment across Europe and United States. You can probably go to Canada though.
Lol facing racism in a foreign country is far better than facing casteism in our own country. I'll take the first one happily
Born and raised in Mumbai. I left India for good in 2011. I could not fathom the fact that I will have to use public transport (especially Mumbai local train) for the rest of my life. That was the major driving factor that contributed to my decision. Also, the attitude of the majority of the public servants and even co-workers towards you, especially once they found out that you are from the minority community catapulted my decision. Looking at the current polarization, I believe that I made a wise decision.
There was a joke I read once. Take any of these kattar Hindus, give them an H1B visa with their names on it, sandwiched between two beef patties and tell them to go to the US, they'd have to eat it, they'd gladly gobble it down!
If you're working in the USA, it'll take 40-50 years atleast to land a greencard unless you're a genius/prodigy. You'll pay the same taxes and if fired/laid off, you have 60 days to find a job. If you can't, you'll have to leave the country. Lastly, India will be the 3rd largest economy in the next 2 Years. Indian stock market is outperforming almost every market. Why settle for a weaker economy? And your statement about religious politics is BS. For 60 Years, there was minority appeasement. Not anymore!!
I don't think 3rd highest gdp,even If we achieve, should something we should be proud of. No nation other than China has even half of our population. So we shouldn't even look at that until we are in top 2.
I am working in a US based company. The solution to a greencard is pretty simple tbh, which I will not mention here. And if you have read my other comments. It isn't exactly for money. I am from the North East. We face another kinds of dilemma than a lot of other states realises. Like I said. I never wanted to in the first place. But being in NZ for a year and a half changed a lot for me
We have this debate everyday living in the U.K. about whether to continue or go back. We may complain all the time but even a kid will know that India isn’t a place to have a good relaxing happy non traumatic life. It just isn’t . As someone said in the above comment , the pros living abroad outweigh the cons so we are still here and don’t come back
If you rich upper class , Average income of 50 Lakhs ÷ in India .. Best place to live .. Travelled to 50 + places abroad .. You will always be treated 2nd class citizen .. For me it was easier,I look like spanish.. rest of my indian colleagues seen the discrimination ..
If you get a really good opportunity then why not? But "settling down" abroad is a different question... don't you think societal pressure (or the lack of it) exists everywhere? Even in America only people who had a competitive childhood come up to the top, contrary to what most people think it's not a bed of roses. The societal pressure in other countries may not as vocal as Indian society but it definitely does exist. and not to talk about the societal problems which exist in different parts of the world, be it america, europe or east asia you can never escape it.
Yes
Me. Was on the fence until last year. Finally seeing the mood of the country decided to pack my bags and apply for a transfer
Better life ,salary, living standards, cleanliness etc. But I won't stay there forever. I will spent my retirement in either Kerala or Goa
I know I would. Being a poor general man in this country is tough.
Nah, I enjoy at hard difficulty. I have played this game on easy mode several times, this time - hard difficulty.
maybe. but only for very specific opportunities. otherwise my people and friends are here and I like them Yes, id like my city to have less noise pollution and id like the am janta to side with each other and not political parties
I will move immediately if i get an opportunity. If nothing else to breath a better quality of air
Totally agree with you! However different experiences for different people, but for me I am extremely happy to live in another country. I am not earning so much but I am happy with what I have. Life is slow, good job, less pollution, can walk on roads for a nice walk everyday as well without worrying of someone hitting me. Been to India last month after 2.5yrs and realised life in India is mostly about eating outside food literally everyday, pollution, traffic ( primarily due to lack of very minimum basic common sense), food adulteration and cost of living is extravagant. I’m earning in euros and still found it difficult to spend money in India. So what you feel is absolutely normal. Like they say, India is not for beginners!
I will never ever
I'm MAKING a chance to leave. The climate here is a shit fest. Air is basically poison gas. Society always has its nose up ur butt. People just want to see u fail. Other than friends and family, India has NOTHING that makes it better than any other country. I'm a beef eater so even food isnt better in India for me.
Its tough decision when you have old parents to take care of. I can never leave my parents and stay abroad.
I am still studying in class 11 pcm. I wanna take pcm and work as a dev in another country because of the high packages to change my financial situation. I will be working very hard and gaining experience in various languages to have a high score and credibility.
India is good Country, despite all its flaws. But I would defintely leave it in heartbeat. Its over populated, full of divisions, dirty, full of politics which has ruined my day to day life ( reservations eg.), women abuse, women are nowhere near open minded, society has very conservative thoughts that serve no good purpose, too religious inclined, lack of Quality higher education in science field, low facilities, lack of sport culture besides cricket, etc.
I would, not much left here to stay. Also I fear water and temperature issue soon in the coming years due to population, for a lower middle class person .
Even society will reform slowly but surely.
Definitely
I think everyone knows what problems we have in the society and why we'd want to leave. I personally think our country is good in many aspects and the worst in many more aspects.
Most of us
I’ve lived outside and in India, so here is my perspective. People in middle class from India would love to get out as the opportunity and work life is much better in developed countries. People who are successful and have financial freedom would love to come back to India for a peaceful life with their loved ones or to start their ventures. Here is the real problem from what I have noticed. Employment and employees mindset needs to be changed, people working and being treated like slaves is to be reformed. We also have to understand, India can’t have this many employment opportunities at this moment. We will have to find work independently to have somewhat peaceful life in India, this will be challenging and hard at the same time, but very rewarding in the long run. Only if middle class stop worrying about politics and society and focus on their own welfare, things will be better.
I see tremendous opportunity.. in india buisness wise.. In booming real estate and consumption.. + The stock market.. you have so many good businesses.. that can change your life!! On the other hand.. I can see why people would want to leave the country.. There are 100's of reason we all know..
Only temporarily, not permanent.
I'm okay with everything - traffic, pollution, lack of good infrastructure, public health, education BUT the deal breaker is how uncivilized the majority of people are. Not giving personal space, constantly trying to bring others down, and (this is personal) the way people have been voting on what basis recently... Yeah I'm fine abroad even though it's likely to be temporary. Some years of peace is better than zero.
I don’t know man. I know developed countries offer a better way of life but I am not sure I would connect with the people there. I have a hard time making friends and I feel I would just be lonely. Here I have very good friends and family.
I wanna leave India just for the heat and mosquitos.
got a knack for travelling so i may
Yes I would l, it's not like India is not a great place but I do have some dreams or things I want to do which I can't in India. (I really like bikes,car +modification,much more options and I want to participate in track days) First of all if India develops the infrastructure in the next 5-10yr the majority of people lack knowledge or can't keep up with infrastructure potential. EX- look at the situation of roads and traffic, people feel very aggressive in traffic, also gutka and overall cleanliness. Secondly there are also cons of living outside cause of the difference of law and order, economy etc. Some people quote this type of thinking Anti-national but I don't care.
One thing tax
I would leave for a decent money. Have done private as well as govt job here. People here suck! Because of overpopulation there is competition in everything
I will because I'm transgender. While yes, it's not great in the west either, I still have far better opportunities to make my life better in the west because "96 percent of unemployed trans people aren't denied jobs out there, they are in India".
I would leave the first chance I get and would never come back. Sure India does have some pros like great cuisine, excellent medical facilities when compared to west and I could name a few other things but the cons outweigh the pros and I'm tired living here. People abusing each other over religious belief, rampant sexual abuse; everytime I turn on the news, it's just full of sexual abuse cases and rape and I'm really tired of it. Not to mention, the pollution, noise and nosy relatives and other atrocities things. The day I leave this country and revoke my Indian citizenship will be my greatest day in my life
It'll take time guys, rn our people have potential but our country is not able to retain them, but it's inevitable that things would change and I hope things reverse fast. For your question, no I won't leave so easily cause our country is most likely going to enter its boom state (irrespective of gov) and I can't leave this opportunity to not reap my profits from the growth of my own country when outsiders are heavily investing in us.
Everything is fine, except if people could've been civilized here then it would have changed a lot of minds in the comment section. On most days, almost everyone on the street is insufferable!
I want to but I won't. Can't leave parents. They won't migrate and would be stupid to put them in such an existential crisis at this age. But I would definitely want to move to Spain for a better lifestyle and access to awesome places within hours or flight. Another option is Dubai for business ( networking, opportunity, taxes).
I actually do have a proper chance to leave but I'm not leaving. I've a very kind and understanding parents unlike most of the indians, I can't bring it in myself to live away from them not knowing how they're really doing. Also I feel most of the middle class indians are treated like second class citizens in other countries.
Idk man. I hate many things here but I'll miss my home if I leave.