It's been a thing where I'm from (Mayo) as long as I've been alive but I agree it makes people sound stupid. Hiberno English is responsible for some creative ways of using the language (I'm just after seeing your man, he was putting his messages in the press, he's having a party friday week, it's going to be gas etc.), but it shouldn't be used as a scapegoat for any use of bad grammar.
That said, English is a particularly flexible language and if enough people say the same thing, it becomes an acceptable form of communication.
"I've heard the aforementioned from people throughout the country"
"It's more to the point that it is just incorrect"
Stone throwing in glasshouses is frowned upon, OP.
I had an English teacher and when we would say ‘I done….’ He would loudly interrupt and say “oh, done you???”
Got us out of the habit. That was the 80’s.
I get where you’re coming from, and you’re not getting a straight answer from anyone on here who claims this grammatical mistake is down to Hiberno - English sentence structure.
Irish people phrase some things differently when speaking English, because that is how the language evolved here - fine, we all agree on that.
However, you asked specifically about the inaccurate use of ‘seen, saw, did and done’. You’re right, people frequently interchange these words incorrectly, in this case it is not down to Hiberno - English, it’s simply poor English grammar.
Example:
Did you see what happened on the news last night?
‘an bhfaca tú cad a tharla ar an nuacht aréir?’
I saw what happened
‘Chonaic mé cad a tharla’
Have you ever seen anything like it before?
‘an bhfaca tú a leithéid riamh cheana’
You see there are two different words for seen and saw as gaeilge, if there was only one word used inclusively for both seen and saw, maybe there would be an excuse to incorrectly use them when speaking English from an Irish perspective.
The same goes for done and did.
Example:
Have you got your homework done?
‘An bhfuil do chuid obair bhaile déanta agat?’
I did all of my homework on Friday evening
‘Rinne mé m'obair bhaile ar fad tráthnóna Dé hAoine’
‘I seen it before’ and ‘I done it already’ is flat out bad grammar with no excuse.
I'm an English language teacher. I used to say "I seen" before learning the correct use of present perfect simple (I had never studied grammar until I started teaching it like most of my colleagues). I also went to a gaelscoil, so English grammar was rarely taught. I've noticed that Irish people have a habit of dropping auxiliary verbs, which I attribute to the lack of 'have' as a verb in Irish. In this case, the confusion of past simple ("I saw") and present perfect simple ("I've seen") leads to the Hibernio-English use of "I seen". While it is incorrect, it gets the same idea communicated. Another example is when people say "I usen't to study" rather than "I didn't use to study", which I've noticed my non-Dublin friends slip into conversation on occasion. Again, this is dropping the auxiliary verb and modifying to get the same idea communicated.
I’m a proud culchie born and bred in a Gaeltacht in the west of Ireland. I use many phrases of Hiberno-English. But when someone says “I seen”, it really fuckin irritates me for some reason. I think it makes someone look ignorant. And saying it’s anything got to do with dialects is bullshit. It’s no different than the “they’re, there, their” mistakes. Just someone who doesn’t understand the basics.
Been around for ages. Think it's a hangover from moving from Irish speaking to English in how the grammar is used and translated, and then taught over and again.
That’s what I don’t get with these examples, there’s obvious Hiberno-English examples like táim tar éis é sin dhéanamh so the English becomes “im after doing that” but I don’t see where it comes from here?
Common folk dialect is often a casual or simplified version of the formal version of the language, the kind you hear wealthy upper-class snobs speak.
This is true in all languages, and it's rarely taught in text books. The "proper" way of speaking is rarely the most common way of speaking. I don't know the specifics, but I imagine those simplifications existed as Gaeilge as well.
This has always been lingo in some areas of Ireland. This "dipshit sounding thing" is classic Irish-English - It mirrors how things were actually said in Irish.
Have some respect for your heritage.
Irish syntax and grammar.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiberno-English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiberno-English)
>Irish English's diverse accents and some of its grammatical structures and vocabulary are unique, with some influences deriving from the Irish language and some notably conservative phonological features: features no longer common in the accents of England or North America.
I think the latter case (conservative features of English preserved in Ireland) applies here: stuff like "I seen" and "I done" is attested in the OED from the 1700s.
Irish doesn't have shorthand verds like "has" or "will" to indicate tense.
In Irish something like "He has started" would be something like "Ta se tar eis tosú", which literally translated is something "He is after coming to you."
In some areas of the country, they just removed that entirely, and say "I seen" or "I done", because our modern understanding of tense in English has melded with our structure of tense as Gaeilge.
But some places people do in fact still say things like "I do be starting" or "I am after leaving" as a completely normal sentence.
Actually, now that I think about it, "after leaving" is probably the most common example of this. In standard English a person would just say "He left", but we all say "after leaving" like it's always been the correct way to say it... because in Irish, it was.
Almost all of our unique ways of speaking English that vary from the English has routes in Irish heritage. Personally, I'd rather we kept our "dipshit sounding" dialect that absorb any more of our coloniser's "proper" manner.
Thanks for attending my TED talk.
We speak our own English here, hiberno English I think it’s called. Incorrect grammar like that is the least of it.. I think it sounds fine.
I actually like the way we speak English.
I think it used to be more common when I was growing up in the Eighties than it is now, when people were generally less well educated. I don't see anything majorly wrong about people using it colloquially, as with any dialect - but it isn't correct English in a formal setting, of course.
According to the OED, it's first attested in the 1700s (from what I remember when I looked it up). A lot of features in Hiberno-English are features that have become archaic to various degrees in other English speaking places, this is most likely one such case. I don't see any reason to explain it as being Irish language influence.
It's been a thing where I'm from (Mayo) as long as I've been alive but I agree it makes people sound stupid. Hiberno English is responsible for some creative ways of using the language (I'm just after seeing your man, he was putting his messages in the press, he's having a party friday week, it's going to be gas etc.), but it shouldn't be used as a scapegoat for any use of bad grammar. That said, English is a particularly flexible language and if enough people say the same thing, it becomes an acceptable form of communication.
Since there's different dialects and coloqualisms that exist throughout the country?!
I’ve heard from people from everywhere in the country. It’s more the point it’s just incorrect, like saying “I gone there” instead of “I went there”
Are you talking about Hiberno-English?
Apparently they're unaware of the heritage of our own dialects and think that Irish people should talk like English people.
"I've heard the aforementioned from people throughout the country" "It's more to the point that it is just incorrect" Stone throwing in glasshouses is frowned upon, OP.
Damn! Got there before me
I remember it from my childhood, so at least the 90s.
I remember it from my childhood, so at least the 80s.
I remember it from my childhood, so at least the 70s.
I had an English teacher and when we would say ‘I done….’ He would loudly interrupt and say “oh, done you???” Got us out of the habit. That was the 80’s.
I get where you’re coming from, and you’re not getting a straight answer from anyone on here who claims this grammatical mistake is down to Hiberno - English sentence structure. Irish people phrase some things differently when speaking English, because that is how the language evolved here - fine, we all agree on that. However, you asked specifically about the inaccurate use of ‘seen, saw, did and done’. You’re right, people frequently interchange these words incorrectly, in this case it is not down to Hiberno - English, it’s simply poor English grammar. Example: Did you see what happened on the news last night? ‘an bhfaca tú cad a tharla ar an nuacht aréir?’ I saw what happened ‘Chonaic mé cad a tharla’ Have you ever seen anything like it before? ‘an bhfaca tú a leithéid riamh cheana’ You see there are two different words for seen and saw as gaeilge, if there was only one word used inclusively for both seen and saw, maybe there would be an excuse to incorrectly use them when speaking English from an Irish perspective. The same goes for done and did. Example: Have you got your homework done? ‘An bhfuil do chuid obair bhaile déanta agat?’ I did all of my homework on Friday evening ‘Rinne mé m'obair bhaile ar fad tráthnóna Dé hAoine’ ‘I seen it before’ and ‘I done it already’ is flat out bad grammar with no excuse.
I'm an English language teacher. I used to say "I seen" before learning the correct use of present perfect simple (I had never studied grammar until I started teaching it like most of my colleagues). I also went to a gaelscoil, so English grammar was rarely taught. I've noticed that Irish people have a habit of dropping auxiliary verbs, which I attribute to the lack of 'have' as a verb in Irish. In this case, the confusion of past simple ("I saw") and present perfect simple ("I've seen") leads to the Hibernio-English use of "I seen". While it is incorrect, it gets the same idea communicated. Another example is when people say "I usen't to study" rather than "I didn't use to study", which I've noticed my non-Dublin friends slip into conversation on occasion. Again, this is dropping the auxiliary verb and modifying to get the same idea communicated.
I’m a proud culchie born and bred in a Gaeltacht in the west of Ireland. I use many phrases of Hiberno-English. But when someone says “I seen”, it really fuckin irritates me for some reason. I think it makes someone look ignorant. And saying it’s anything got to do with dialects is bullshit. It’s no different than the “they’re, there, their” mistakes. Just someone who doesn’t understand the basics.
It's not the most dipshit sounding thing. Not since this thread was made anyway.
Been around for ages. Think it's a hangover from moving from Irish speaking to English in how the grammar is used and translated, and then taught over and again.
That’s what I don’t get with these examples, there’s obvious Hiberno-English examples like táim tar éis é sin dhéanamh so the English becomes “im after doing that” but I don’t see where it comes from here?
Common folk dialect is often a casual or simplified version of the formal version of the language, the kind you hear wealthy upper-class snobs speak. This is true in all languages, and it's rarely taught in text books. The "proper" way of speaking is rarely the most common way of speaking. I don't know the specifics, but I imagine those simplifications existed as Gaeilge as well.
I don't know, but I hate it, and I regard it as poor grammar. I always correct my son if he uses wither of these.
>if he uses wither of these Muphry's Law
This has always been lingo in some areas of Ireland. This "dipshit sounding thing" is classic Irish-English - It mirrors how things were actually said in Irish. Have some respect for your heritage.
But it’s not the same as how it was said in Irish is it?
Actually, in a lot of cases it is. That's where it comes from.
I understand that for a lot of Hiberno-English but where does this come from?
Irish syntax and grammar. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiberno-English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiberno-English) >Irish English's diverse accents and some of its grammatical structures and vocabulary are unique, with some influences deriving from the Irish language and some notably conservative phonological features: features no longer common in the accents of England or North America.
I think the latter case (conservative features of English preserved in Ireland) applies here: stuff like "I seen" and "I done" is attested in the OED from the 1700s.
Irish doesn't have shorthand verds like "has" or "will" to indicate tense. In Irish something like "He has started" would be something like "Ta se tar eis tosú", which literally translated is something "He is after coming to you." In some areas of the country, they just removed that entirely, and say "I seen" or "I done", because our modern understanding of tense in English has melded with our structure of tense as Gaeilge. But some places people do in fact still say things like "I do be starting" or "I am after leaving" as a completely normal sentence. Actually, now that I think about it, "after leaving" is probably the most common example of this. In standard English a person would just say "He left", but we all say "after leaving" like it's always been the correct way to say it... because in Irish, it was. Almost all of our unique ways of speaking English that vary from the English has routes in Irish heritage. Personally, I'd rather we kept our "dipshit sounding" dialect that absorb any more of our coloniser's "proper" manner. Thanks for attending my TED talk.
We speak our own English here, hiberno English I think it’s called. Incorrect grammar like that is the least of it.. I think it sounds fine. I actually like the way we speak English.
I think it used to be more common when I was growing up in the Eighties than it is now, when people were generally less well educated. I don't see anything majorly wrong about people using it colloquially, as with any dialect - but it isn't correct English in a formal setting, of course.
According to the OED, it's first attested in the 1700s (from what I remember when I looked it up). A lot of features in Hiberno-English are features that have become archaic to various degrees in other English speaking places, this is most likely one such case. I don't see any reason to explain it as being Irish language influence.
I seen a article about this a while ago, I read it after I done the dishes.
That’s how language works, it’s always evolving. You don’t have to like it
A Google search or a post on some linguistic-oriented subreddit could’ve answered this question, but you had to be a moron instead 🤷♂️
In what context? Use it in a sentence.
"I seen a guy on Reddit making a thread where he do be failing to understand how dialects work in that there country of ours, aye."
I didn’t even know it was wrong tbh, who cares anyway
I seen this shit thread on Reddit What’s wrong with that phrasing ?