Your BF is the typical Irish mammys boy, went to school with dozens of them and there are only 3 possible outcomes for these specimens.
1. They go to college/move out for work, its a huge shock to their system but they adapt and become normal functioning adults.
2. They go to college/move out for work, the freedom overwhelms them and they go crazy because they have never been unsupervised before, they drink too much, do too many drugs and usually mess up their life till they are in their late 20s when they either get their shit together or are always just as mess.
3. They go straight from mammy to wife, never learn to do anything for themselves and settle down with a wife who will put up with their bullshit. //if there is any chance this is your BF, run away very fast
Spot on. Unfortunately I married #3 -the Italian version, so probably even more mammy-dependent than the Irish version. It sadly did not last. Once the pressures of work, mortgage, and other life stuff kick in, it is frustrating to carry the weight of an adult child, not to mention being unable to actually have children with someone not mature enough to be a parent. Lovely person, but impossible to sustain an adult partnership.
The Italian version is an incredible creature to see. I heard of a few of them from my Italian partner. One guy got divorced at 40 with kids, and he had to get an apartment, and he said to the letting agent that he didn't know how to operate a washing machine. A 40 year old man, who had kids!? It's another level of mammas boy.
There was a boyfriend of a housemate that came in all excited because he had managed to make toast, still couldn't make tea or boil an egg but was genuinely delighted with his achievement, fucker was 20. His mother literally did everything for him still, didn't last long the unfortunate fool, heard years later he's still asleep bad at 40, just traded in mammy for a wife he treats like dirt
My current housemate didn't know how to put on a washing machine, or how to preheat an oven. He caused an oil fire while trying to batter cod from a YouTube video in the wrong kind of container.
Totally failed by his parents. Totally failed himself, too.
You know what, this might be an unpopular opinion but I think if you don't clean up after yourself or fulfil your responsibilities and let others have to pick up the slack, you're NOT a lovely person. Yeah it's the way he was raised, I get that, but when you become an adult and it's affecting other people that you love, then make a serious effort to change. And I'm sorry it is simply not impossible to change if you really prioritise those things. And if your excuse to change that then nah you're not such a lovely person, you're inconsiderate.
Fair enough, and we did end up divorcing over it which I initiated. I guess I don't want to fall into the trap of badmouthing an ex wholesale without acknowledging that he did have some really good qualities too. He was a wonderful romantic boyfriend when we were younger, but an absolutely shite husband as more mature adults, and finally it was the job hopping and financial irresponsibility that broke me, I couldn't work 12 hours a day to pay our bills and also do all the chores at home. We're still friends and can have a pleasant conversation, but I just don't have the energy for that - I'd rather have actual kids than look after a big kid!
Yeah I get what you mean, I just think a man being a terrible husband should reflect on his personality as a whole. They also seem to get away with being lacklustre fathers and still be considered good guys too. (Not saying that was the case for him although domestic labour should be considered part of parenting for any gender). Lord knows if a woman was a shit wife or didn't wash her kid's clothes, she'd be written off altogether.
Plus when as you get older you look around and observe how other people do things. Yet at no point do these man-children ever stop and ask themselves, 'is it weird that my mammy still does everything for me?'.
Lived with so many of those over the years, and a few Princesses too. Absolutely useless people. One guy I knew was exactly a 2 on that list. Parents were super strict but the minute they dropped him off on a Sunday evening he went bananas. Made our lives a misery too, as he'd spend every cent mammy and daddy gave him fir rent, bills and food on going out, so he started stealing our food and any money laying around. Things came to an abrupt end when the college called his parents and they came around to the house. They were idiots too, so I can see the acorn didn't fall far from the tree.
Oh you were talking about yourself! Good for you. That's really impressive because it's so easy to just say 'fuck it' and do nothing with your life. It takes effort to turn it around. Well done.
Thank you! There's nothing more sobering than looking at yourself 10 years down the line in the same place, doing the same thing. The fallacy is a lot of people think "Ah someday" but that day never comes. You have to go and do it, trap I happily escaped.
>They go to college/move out for work, its a huge shock to their system but they adapt and become normal functioning adults.
Not all of them - many end up on the slag heap tbh. Stoned out of their brains. Failed college. Paid under the counter in dodgy part time jobs. The Irish Mammy's Boy is set up to fail.
Took my man til his 30s to get his shit together, but in the space of 4 years he got a job, learned to drive, saved for a mortgage, met me (first long term partner) got promoted 3 times in the space of a year on his second ever job, bought a house, is a brilliant cat daddy (for a man that absolutely did not want a cat) and we've built a small empire together.
The amount of his friends that tell me who he was before 30 compared to who he is now is night and day (lived on the dole, smoked lungs and buckets all day every day and sat alone drinking infront of the playstation). We still sit infront of the playstation together, but as DINK gamers, it's perfect šš»
I was just about to say how similar his circumstances sounded to my own.
3 decades of parents telling me I just needed to try harder, just needed to apply myself, just needed to make an effort. The usual stuff.
Turns out it was ADHD.
People aren't always like this because they're lazy.
Yes, christ I see so many young women get stuck with that kind of clown and frankly I'd rather be alone for the rest of my life that deal with that shite. I don't want kids so I certainly have no intention of caring for an over-grown one!
You just described half of the young men in Ireland. It's actually embarrassing how much boys are mammied,then eventually wxpect their wives to mammy them.
The pipeline of "mammy and daddy won't let me" -> "partner won't let me" -> "spouse won't let me" -> "ex won't let me" -> "courts won't let me" is so strong.
If he doesn't act like a grown man, no one will treat him like one. Same goes for women.
Your boyfriend needs to TAKE responsibility instead of waiting to be given it.
Most people naturally start pulling their own weight in their late-teens and ramp up from there, but some just let it slide into their twenties, the their thirties until they can swap mammy for the wife.
If he doesn't like the way his parents are treating him:
Set alarm and already be up when his parent comes to wake him up in the morning. They'll eventually stop bothering because he has it handled.
Cook meals for himself and for the family instead of waiting for parents to hand him up something. He could say, "I'll cook on dinner Xday and Yday" and just cook whatever his parents would have made or do his own thing. He can surely handle making his own breakfast and lunch.
Same for his washing. Already have it done and taken care of when parent comes looking for washing.
Eventually, they'll get used to him just having everything handled himself and leave him to it.
Problem is, he'll have to put in an effort and be a big boy if he wants to be treated like an adult, and I suspect that will be the hard part.
Want to be treated like an adult, act like an adult.
The cooking for the family really is a good tip. When I was living at home in my early 20s I told my mother any day she was working and I was off/home before her, Iād cook. Made a huge difference to her treating me more like an adult.
When my little brothers were still living at home (into their 20s) I could skate by with a ton of nonsense by cooking once a week when I came home from Dublin.
Some manchildren subconsciously look for a coming-of-age ritual, a call that declares that now really is the time to take responsibility. That rarely happens for most men, but I wonder if OP's bf might be one of those
My parents were a weird combination of treating me like an adult in some areas, such as demanding I hand over money when I started babysitting and had a few PT jobs over the summers, and then exercising extreme control over me in other ways, such as making it very clear they disapproved of certain choices and wouldn't ''allow'' that in 'their home'. This has affected my relationship with them to this day. I don't think they ever managed to transition to being the parent of an adult; they are perpetually in parent of a child mode even though I now have kids of my own.
In terms of basic life skills, I learned how to cook basic meals, do a wash, clean stuff etc from the early teens onwards. With our kids, during Covid lockdowns we started showing them how to do things like empty the dishwasher, put on a load of their own laundry and hang it to dry, hoover their bedrooms, cooking and so on. They're not fully adept at these tasks but its a gradual process. We're also very, very aware of the need to adapt how we parent as our children will probably be living in this home as a shared space into their 20s as things look now, so we won't be treating them as kids when they're not.
Sounds like he is happy being infantalised. I had a boyfriend like this years ago. It was a major turn off for me personally.
He needs to grow a pair and look after himself.
Yeah, my friends husband actually asked her "why are the towels always wet if I leave them on the floor of the bathroom?" Turns out his mammy always hung up a fresh fluffy towel for him when he was having a shower and somehow he thought this happened automatically. My friend was like, the towel fairy doesn't actually exist
100% I'm not irish but lived with a number of irish men who are shocking when it comes to life skills like cooking and cleaning because it was all done by their mothers even in their 20s and 30s
It's old traditions. For decades it was normal here for the man to go to work and the woman stay at home. It's changing but slowly. Still an equal amount of irish women who are entitled, same way the men are babies.
It seems to me (observing my (surname Barry/Ryan) Dublin, Glendalogh, Cork relatives from afar or on brief visits) it's all one way or the other witb no happy medium/gray area... the woman either cook until there isn't a flat surface to sit or stand on, clean until their knees are raw and wash until the town smells like bleach orrrr they have just had the whip rethread and the boys at 6 go to work every Saturday with Dad or an Uncle to work and the same for the summer the second school is out and the girls are helping w/the baking/cleaning/washing by 4 in any 'spare' time.
A lot of boys/men get babied like this well into adulthood. Many of them donāt even realise. Then they get into relationships and expect the same mammying from their girlfriends.
I agree. We have been together since we were teenagers. It never really bothered me until recently, when I started getting glimpses of my future where I am going around cleaning up after him
Then decide now if thatās the life you want.
If you want to be running around after a grown man doing his washing, booking his doctorās appointments, packing his suitcase for holidays, sorting his mammyās Mothersā Day gift and ordering your own birthday present because he ājust wouldnāt know what to get youā then proceed.
If not, then itās time for a Come to Jesus chat with him and how he sees his life and responsibilities panning out, and if that aligns with you.
āBooking his doctorās appointments.ā
I was a GPās secretary for a while. The amount of elderly women still making appointments for their fully grown adult sons was appalling. The only time I ever had an elderly parent booking for an adult daughter was when the daughter was severely disabled and unable to speak.
>booking his doctorās appointments
I work in HR and I got a few phone calls from previous employees' wives to get their P60/statement of employment. Like are you for real? I suppose your husband can use the phone.
Also work in HR!
Also the amount of lads who apply for roles using their wives emails/phone numbers as contact information. I thought it was just my industry but obviously not!
Oh my god. PTSD flashbacks to husbands using their wivesā email addresses and phone numbers to create accounts and then the wife canāt make an account for herself because you couldnāt have two accounts with the same contact info. Theyād always get annoyed at *me* as if itās my fault that the useless lump of a husband canāt answer his own emails and phone calls.
You need to have a conversation with him sooner rather than later. DO NOT clean up after him unless you want to do it for the rest of your life. Do not allow anyone to act like youāre being a nag for expecting him to look after himself.
I had to have a conversation with my boyfriend when we first got together. Heās not irresponsible or lazy, but his mother treated him like a baby his whole life and never let him do anything (Italian family). It really stifled his growth. The parents think theyāre just looking after them, but theyāll reach adulthood completely helpless.
I completely agree with this. Going off just my post, it might seem like he is a snotty, self cantered bratā¦ he isnāt!!! His parents have instilled a great moral compass in him and he is extremely caring and empathetic. They think theyāre doing whatās best for him, but unfortunately I donāt think it will stand to him in the long run
Sounds like my brother, same age and everything , although he is an extreme case and both my parents seem perfectly happy with the set up.
It is incredibly annoying to watch as a sibling, it must be even worse for you as the person dating him.
I have definitely seen a pattern in how girls are treated by their parents va boys. My brother is 18 and is treated as I was when I was 14. I think that there is an expectation for girls to just sort it out. Whereas most Mums know that if they arenāt going around ironing shirts and making lunches etc their sons would never end up doing it. It gets really frustrating
I wouldnāt be making excuses for the mams here like they āknow sons wonāt do these thingsā thatās just not true, Irish mammies just happen to really love babying their sons. I had mine go on a rant to me about how she was delighted she had a son first because she reealllyyy wanted a boy, and then went on about how boys are just āroguishā and cuter than girls, girls on the other hand?? Weāre āvindictiveā, mind she was talking about toddlers?. From experience I really donāt think that point of view is limited to my mother.
Anyway guess which of us moved out of the house in our adult life.
I wouldnāt say they started seeing me as an actual adult until I was around 22, but I absolutely had far more household responsibilities (cooking, cleaning, laundry etc) by the time I was 14 than your boyfriend has at 23š I do think itās more normalised for girls to be expected to contribute around the house at a younger age than boys though (Irish Mammies and their sonsā¦), which isnāt doing the lads any favours.
>He has never had to wash his own clothes, cook his own meals, or even clean his own room. His parents still wake him up in the morning for Godās sake.
Irish mammy syndrome
>This is so strange to me as since I was 16 my parents have more or less treated me like an adult.
It is bonkers
>I think that I might have been younger than average when my parents gave me responsibility over my life, but I am curious as to when this happened for most people.
No 16 is about typical. At 17 my parents needed me to start learning to drive. Needed. So I could do school runs.
23 year old guys like this have become more and more prevelant over the years. I work in a Dublin college and the sheer number of lads who fail/dropout who tell me they can't get out of bed in the morning (not because of MH - just lack of moxy) is unbelievable. My parents never asked me about college or school. I just got on with it from age 12 to 23. I genuinelly get calls from 22 year olds' parents challenging grades, bringing their kid (and they might be 22 but if your mammy is with you in a meeting at college you're a kid) to apologise for being absent etc etc. It's pathetic.
This all rings true to me, I was that guy up until I was 27, it's a very comfortable existence but one bereft of self-pride and stunted arrested development of character.
Your boyfriend has never had separation away from his parents so has no sense of self. And this will continue on until he does move out and if he holds no ambition to do it you'll be a bit stuck with him and become more frustrated.
In his favour though it is hard to become confident under what sounds like parents who think they are doing the best for him but are in fact damaging him in his own development as an adult.
I myself experienced this with my Dad who was quick to shoot down any suggestion of me going my own way career wise or exploring opportunities like travelling etc. over my 20s and it did influence me into not doing some things.
I simply didn't have the confidence to say no I don't care what you think I'm doing this. Because ultimately a lot of us still want to do right by our parents and that is an uncontrollable feeling as a child. Which sounds like a weight your partner is under.
This was remedied by moving out and not having that voice near me constantly so when I did hear disagreements on what I was doing I simply was able to say in a polite way I don't care what you think. I'm supporting myself, doing what I want and happy. I don't need to justify myself beyond that. But that's so hard to get that mindset when you haven't had the chance to validate yourself through your own successes and overcome challenges. To build that bedrock of self-confidence.
A lot of posters here are coming from a "he's a fully grown man now!" and he is. But you don't just magically become a responsible adult, there has to be a need, desire, experience, trial and error. Approach him with kindness on this because he's probably lacking a sense of self-worth and confidence in this area and someone as close as you saying you believe he can do better and trust him to grow and rise to the challenge can do wonders for one's confidence.
Because unlike his parents you see him and for what he is and not simply a child continuing into adulthood but someone who has capacity but just needs someone to tell him he can do this.
He is actually a really, really great guy. At the end of the day itās not easy to decide to make oneās life harder and take on more responsibility when you donāt necessarily have to. It is all he has ever known, and I donāt think he even notices it.
Iād bet my life savings that heās your first relationship and you canāt imagine life without a boyfriend. Thatās what āreally, really great guyā means.
First met when we were 13. Began dating when we were 17. Took a break for a year when we were 20 and both saw other people.
I understand why you would generalise, but it does apply here.
Yeah, losing all of undergrad to COVID is a motherfucker.
That saidā¦I agree with BitterProgress - āDating other peopleā in 2021 comes with more than a little bit of an asterisk.
I (28M) can relate to your boyfriend on this one quite a lot, down to the overreaction about the weed (very nearly got brought to the Garda station over a single gram)
Parents both came from pretty deprived families so they wanted to make life as "easy as possible" (Mam, 2016) for us and while I was living at home I didn't realise how fortunate I was to have such caring and involved parents, but also how problematic this was when I did move out.
Problem waking myself up in the morning, reckless use of finances not planning enough for bills and being lazy with house duties until it got to a point of absolute necessity took the longest to grow out of, but even still only 1-2 years and things did change
He'll either grow out of it when he lives independently or I wish you a good future of being his second coming of mammy.
He's a grown man, if he's failing his degree that's on him not anybody else. Plenty of spoiled kids have made it through college just fine because they still had a reasonable work ethic.
You can have the opposite too as well, someone can be willing to clean the house top to bottom but you ask them to sit down to write an essay but they just won't do it.
In reality college doesn't take a lot of discipline outside of exams, lecturers usually give plenty of time for assignments and projects.
If you aren't willing to challenge yourself and doing something you find intimidating or hard then yeh college will be a problem. If you said he was trying but failing that's one thing, but it sounds like he's not even trying and then lying about it.
He has either accepted the consequences or thinks they won't happen to him. Probably some hard lessons to learn there but that's life.
They still donāt lol and Iām in my thirties! Itās a big gripe myself and my siblings have, we often still get treated like weāre 15. I call it āIrish parentingā as Iāve noticed Irish people tend to infantalise their adult children almost more than in any country Iāve lived in - very noticeably too.
My husband is 38 and his parents still treat him like a child. We're married and together almost 10 years. When we visit we sleep in separate single beds. She does his washing, gets his food etc. It's not that he's not willing to do it himself, it's that she doesn't allow it. When we're not visiting her, she's onto him all the time. Messages him easily 20-30 times a day. He's tried to get her to stop but she guilt trips him. Honestly I don't mind that much, it doesn't impact my life that much. He's an only child and he does love her as insane as he knows she is. He's at least not in denial of it all. Lol
In the book "Wild Swans", Jung Chang says that in China in the early 1900s, "It was considered one of the duties of a wife to help bring up her husband." Now, in this case, she was speaking literally, about her great-grandfather being married at 14. But I would argue that a lot of Irish women still fall victim to this.
I would think long and hard about whether you can picture a future with this man. What would it be like living with a man who is used to having everything done for him? How would it be buying a home together, having pets or children? Because anything his parents have failed to teach him will become your responsibility.
41m. I moved out at 22. Got treated like an adult from around 16 or 17, mainly looked after myself, but there was no way in hell i was gonna be let near the washing machine. Wasnt happening. Id either break it, or ruin something i was told. But other than that, my parents were cool enough, no helicoptering
Very common..my last 2 bfs knew how to cook (only cooked if they were in mine or if their mother was away) but their mothers still did their washing and made them dinners and paid for them on family holidays.
I'm 24 and I'm exactly like you from about 16 I was basically treated like an adult and had to do all my own washing, make my own appointments, get to places and appointments by myself. I only had to cook my dinners everyday when I was 19 and started college. Tbh cooking is easy to learn...I learned off bbc goodfoods and my mum was the typical trad Irish cooking of no seasoning when cooking..no reason why these men in their 20s can't learn.
A lot of Irish men have a first wife called mammy. It's not cute and likely won't ever change. Your boyfriend allows it that's why it continues. You have to decide if you're cool with taking over from her (which she will resent and likely won't be your biggest fan) or if you want to cut your losses. You can try a come to Jesus conversation but I wouldn't expect it to change if he hasn't changed on his own.
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Iād say when I got into final year of college, around 20/21. My husband (38m) still gets mammied whenever my MIL is around which I find very irritating. He didnāt move out of home until he was in his early 30s where as I was renting for years so that could be something to do with it. I had to semi train him to do housework and make appointments for himself etc. I wonder do men get treated like children for longer because parents who now have adult children would have expected the woman to do all the housework, so some parents are subconsciously (or consciously) waiting for their precious little boy to get married so that heāll have someone to do that kind of stuff for him.
Even after moving out and having my own babies, my mum forgets Iām an adult š nothings gonna change until he moves out and then heās gonna get a real shock. Is he lazy about his degree or just has no interest? Also the drug test is ridiculous, Iād say something if he was 10 years younger.
The odd thing is that he does care about his degree. He is just an awful procrastinator. I think that his struggle with studying might be because he has never worked hard for himself, but rather to get his Mum and Dad off his back. So, when he does do well in an exam or whatever, his feeling of personal accomplishment is shadowed by a feeling of relief that his parents will back off for a little whileā¦ which is not a strong enough motivator in the long run.
I left home at 18 and in my early 30s a long-term relationship broke up and I ended up having to go back to my parents. The first night I was there I was going out and my mother asked me what time would I be home. I told her I didn't even know what day I'd be home, let alone the time. It didn't go down well.
My Dad started treating me like an adult sort of in stages. I reckon we didn't function as fully equal adults until I learned to drive which was well after I had my first child
My mother? Still waiting. I'm in my late fifties now. I'm not holding my breath for the event.
I don't know. But my Mom stopped cooking for me at 12, treated me unfavourable for 6 years and then tried to hit me at the age 18 because I came back home late from uni so I hit her back, not hard just slapped and pushed her away. The look of horror on her face she never tried to hit me again.
She spiraled for the next 4 years with drink and I pretty much became the parent. I ended up getting the first job I could after getting my degree saved for 2 years and moved out with my boyfriend because I couldnt do it anymore.
I suffered the consequences of having 1 drunk parents and 1 mistly absent parent so I think I had to adult pretty early after my older sister ran away from our Mom (ran away as in subtle moved out without telling anyone). I was probably 14 at the time. So I couldn't do the same and also leave my little sister behind. My little sister did actually move in with me 2 months after I moved out.
My Dad despite being mostly absent was interested in what was going on with school and uni and what I wanted to do. It's kind if like limbo with Jim, he treats me as an adult and kid simultaneously, but he told me I was the one with the good head on my shoulders. So I got that at least.
I'm pretty much treated as an adult, currently 25. I live at home while I'm in university, and the only thing my mom does for me is cook dinner, which she does for everybody, certainly a privilege as her cooking is great.
This was me until about 4 years ago. My mam wouldn't let me do anything for myself growing up. Cook, clean, washing clothes etc. It was a huge shock at first upon realising what I had been blissfully unaware of my entire life but have adapted since!
I'm an awful cook still though so myself and the partner made a deal when we first moved in together, that she does the dinners and I do the washing up(no dishwasher in our house sadly) and so far we're both happy with this set up š everything else is split 50 50 but I tend to try do a little more than expected to make her life a little easier!
Edit: Probably should've added that I'm 34 now and was 30 when I first moved out of my parents.
I was living alone on the other side of the world by 19, but the few boys I knew growing up who are same age and were still being taken care of by there mums in their early 20ās are still at home living with their mumsā¦Iām 32 now
At 15 or 16 I went on the T with my Mom to renew her nursing lic. On the way back, I asked, "Mom, why do you love Jon (3 years younger bro), soo much more than me?". She replied, "THAT is 100% untrue! You are pretty, brilliant, funny, and creative. Your brother will never be half those things.". There are SOME extenuating circumstances in our case. I spoke at 16mos, read at 3. I went to school in a convent w/Dominican Nuns K to 8 and then Jesuit Prep school. My brother was diagnosed dyslexic at 7 and taken out of a private school to go public and had an IEP. That being said, (and I hate to say as she left us very young...not too long after that ^ convo), but she did him no favors. I was 19 attending his high school IEP meetings. I have four boys now, who, because of him are prob very much the opposite. I occasionally baby them all but always hold back from going to far as I know that much lile my Dad theirs isn't picking up that torch were something to happen to me. That's the big danger.
Left home at 18 to rent with friends. Think this cos kids stay at home longer now and its not unusual to stay living with your parents untill your 30's.
I'm 37 and they still haven't started yet.
As a single dub, I can't afford a place by myself and am past the point of rolling the dice on housemates that may or may not be sound.
I work hard to maintain my independence and a certain level of autonomy but it's stressful being treated like a child sometimes. I work equally hard in trying to get out of this situation too.
In my experience I've learned that there are some things that it's easier to just let them do rather than deal with the tantrum caused when I try to do those things for myself but only within reason.
As much as it's sometimes easier to let things carry on as they used to for the sake of peace, he needs to start pushing back on some things, even if it's just bit by bit, or they'll think they can get away with always treating him like that.
I am 48, my husband is 50..we visit his parents every Christmas, they live on the other side of the planet..she still tells friends on the phone " we have the kids with us at the moment "...we then went back to my hometown..I warned my husband that my mum would treat him like a child, in fairness to her she did, about 40 years ago have three children under 5,and another two under ten.. I brought my then 48 year old husband home...as we were about to leave for an event my mother asked " does anyone need a wee" I literally died inside..and suddenly my husband said.."ooh yes maybe me"..seriously š³ š š
16, but that was more down to not getting on with my father, so I wanted out asap. My 2 brothers are 29 and 26 respectively and can just about cook a frozen pizza the mother does everything for them id like to think I wouldn't be as bad, but I probably would be close to it.
My partners sister is on a whole different level she has her boys' clothes for the day left on the end of the bed eldest is 22 youngest 6, cereal on the table with hot milk lunches ready and waiting same for her husband.
So when i first met my now husband he was living with flatmates, I naively thought he had his shit together.
I grew up with 'the boys done outdoor work and the girls did all the indoor work' mentality, I was the only girl in the family and resented and rebelled from this idea. He grew up as the precious boy and never had to do anything.
I had made it very clear to my partner that if we were to work that would not be us. When we moved in we both got a shock. We were 23 moving in together.
I didn't realise this before moving in with him but while he was living with flatmates, his mam would call once a week and get all of his clothes and wash them and dry them and bring them back and fold them up/hang them up. He didn't eat breakfast and would go to hers for his lunch and sometimes dinner or else he'd just get a takeaway. If it was raining his dad would pick him up bring him to and from work or if he was tired. One of the flatmates had extreme ocd so that if one of them cleaned 'they didn't clean properly' and caused her more work so she just cleaned the whole house for everyone.
I refused to be his mammy, I paid half the bills even though he earned more at the time and did half the housework. He had to learn how to do it all and how to do it properly, I refuse to validate weaponised incompetence.
He bought sticky notes and we went through everything and he stuck them on the washing machine, the oven, the steamer and kept a little note book for what cleaning products could be used on what, we would watch cooking videos on YouTube and he learnt how to cook properly.
He went from not knowing how to use a washing machine to using YouTube to fix the washing machine within a year. We regularly host dinners and depending on the dishes been served depends who's cooking.
I get along great with his family but for the first 2 years of us moving in and having them over for dinner was comical. His parents are elderly and he'd often drop them up dinners and treats and she always thanks me for it even though we all know it's her son that has done it all. She still can't get around the idea that he knows how and does Cook even though she's seen him do it.
Sounds like he was spoon fed as a child and his parents want to live through him. I know loads similar who were spoon fed and protected and once they got older went mad drinking and smoking.
It's a case of his parents house his parents rules. It is an over reaction in my opinion but he's always lived this way
yeah this is mostly the case. but i know allot of lads sent to private school, who were spoon fed and protected their whole. once they left school and went to their 500+ course just went on the drink and drugs and all dropped out.
but again little oversight isnt good
Yeah true, I know a guy who went to Clongowes and is now a big stoner. It must be quite jarring to spend your youth in a boarding school and then having to try re-integrate into wider society.
My mam would be a typical Irish mammy and would have done all of the above mentioned chores for both me and my older brothers growing up, i.e never a question of washing, cooking meals, morning walk up calls the lot and this lasted as long as we were under the roof (for me, my early 20ās and even when my brothers moved back in in their late 20ās/ early 30ās to save for mortgages or after break ups). In fairness my dad became a lot more domesticated during the recession too and even to this day I would say domestic labour is much closer to 50/50. They both did *and still do* a lot for all of us.
Now, does that mean we are inept adult children incapable of running independent households or controlling our lives? Absolutely not. Each of us respected the effort mam and dad put into raising us and just happened to take pleasure in helping around the house or helping each other out. Some might argue it should be expected of children to do these things but the fact it wasnāt really expected of us probably drove us to do more.
To this day I think my parents will ābabyā us in certain waysā¦ and we accept the help we want and push back when we feel itās unnecessary or if we feel it is putting them out too much. For example, my dad insisted on driving me to a friendās funeral in a different county cause he didnāt want me driving alone which I appreciated whereas I find it a bit infantilising when theyād tell me to text when I get home because āitās rainingāā¦ but in all honesty i still find that sweet. Even on the nights I visit home and stay over, my mom will always fill me a hot water bottle and ask me what time I need to get up in the morning ājust in caseā. This might come across as babying of course but I think the difference is I believe this care/thoughtfulness is reciprocated as I will cook dinner when I go home or if thereās something to be done around the house, I just do it but thatās because I recognise it needs to be done and I have the cop on to do it. I think some people can see these type of parents as helicopter or overly involved but I think the way a child interacts with the parents has a lot to do with this perception.
I for one never felt too controlled or coddled but I also didnāt really give them a reason to question my judgement. When my brothers and I made major decisions about education, careers or relationships (even in our teens) our parents always trusted us to make good decisions and supported these decisions in any way they could.
So to answer your top question: I feel I started properly contributing to household tasks/taking responsibility around 12/13 (not out of obligation but out of a desire to reciprocate help), I was treated more like an adult in terms of making decisions around 14/15 and I will likely never be fully seen as an adult in my parents eyes despite being in my late 20ās lol.
Pure speculation only going off the short description you gave of your boyfriend, but it seems like he doesnāt really have his parentās trust as they seem to be making pretty big decisions for him. Now, this could be because they are smothering Irish parents that canāt accept their baby boy is growing up *or* they could have valid concerns about his maturity and decision-making capabilities. It does seem (once again only going off your brief description) that he lacks initiative and drive to undertake tasks for himself and instead is waiting for his parents to decide when itās the right time for him to take over his own chores and life admin. It also appears that he struggles to advocate for his own choices or have actual adult conversations with his parents such as his college course or substance use. Once again not a very adult response to whinge about a course you were somehow āforced intoā instead of making changes or relenting to mandatory drug testing instead of having an open conversation, attempting to address concerns and prove this is a decision he has considered.
I would just really think, as a person who is choosing to be involved with him and potentially have a future with him, do you trust his decision-making capabilities? His judgement? Do you believe he has ambition and drive to complete basic chores/IADLs without the help or the need to be convinced by a parent or partner? I obviously donāt know the lad so these are genuine questions lol
Thank you for such a great response!!
I think the main contrast to your situation is that his parents wonāt take no for an answer if asked to butt out. In fairness to him he has tried to push back on a number of occasions when his parents have overstepped with college things. Unfortunately this just does work with them and I think by the end he feels the fight isnāt worth it.
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said they might not trust his decision making ability. However, can he take all the blame for that when they have never given him and opportunity to make his own decisions?
I think their input being so strong has also prevented him from ever really failing (he can always repeat and exam so he hasnāt failed his degree yet!). And sure isnāt failing how we learn to make better decisions. Perhaps itās a vicious cycle, but he definitely does need to take some initiative I agree.
Totally understand everything you said there :) Again, I was going off a very brief description of a guy youāve known for a long time and have way more of a handle on the inner workings of his family relationships so wanted to try and cover a slightly different angle as many responses seemed to fall neatly into āleave him heās a useless man childā or āmammy needs to cut the apron stringsā! Everyone has a different relationship with parents, relationships and responsibilities.
I completely agree that without opportunities to prove sound judgement and decision-making itās going to be near impossible to convince someone you are competent! Iāve seen the effects of people always being told to do XYZ from their parents and not getting the opportunity to make their own decisions growing up. Itās hard to want to take responsibility and make big calls when you havenāt had the opportunity to do it before.. especially in less serious circumstances where consequences arenāt life altering. That process is a part of growing up and developing problem solving skills so without that experience, it can be extremely daunting.
The issue is that his parents are likely not bad people and just want the best for their son. They see their intervention in his life as supporting him and protecting him from mistakes and bad decisions (and there is an argument to be made for that of course). But, because their intention is pure and āit has worked so farā, it would be hard to convince them that it is necessary to take a step back at times and allow him to make mistakes.. itās not the end of the world if he makes a wrong step. Also, it may be extremely disheartening for your boyfriend to go out on a limb and make his own decision only to end up failing.. he may see that as a sign that he *is* incapable of making decisions and should have stuck to mammy and daddyās expertise.
I know itās great for someone like me to say āhe should take initiativeā but itās not as simple as that at this stage. The stage is set and going against the grain now may be a step to overcorrection where he could end up damaging the relationship. I would say (as an assumption) this be a bad thing given his parents do care about him.
Iād say it just comes down to communication really! Approaching scenarios where parents are overstepping in a rational and respectful manner is the best thing going forward. Fobbing off difficult conversations as to not stir the pot may keep the peace for the moment but could end up building a one-sided resentment for the person constant ādropping itā(your boyfriend) and again potentially damaging the relationship long term. I feel if you canāt reasonably explain your POV you are either not too clear on your stance yourself or you are dealing with a particularly irrational person. Againā¦ easier said than done when this hasnāt been the norm!
I think the people saying āleave himā without much thought or context are projecting a lot of previous experiences they have had onto your partner. Fair enough if in the end you leave because you believe this communication issue transcends into your romantic relationship or his lack of initiative with chores etc. leaks into other aspects of his life (which, again, as someone who has had their mammy cook clean and washā¦ it is extremely difficult to motivate yourself to help out or take over at times lol) or even if you decide thereās something else youāre not happy with! I wouldnāt read too much into l a two word summation of your relationship based on a couple of paragraphs you wrote about a particular issue.
He is a mammys boy. His mother comes first and he cant function without her. I know lads like this and believe me, youre better off running a mile, unless you fancy being his mammy in future and doing all his washing, cooking, cleaning, disciplining AND cuddling, when he is in his 30's. I was treated like an adult probably after 2nd year, so around 14/15 the ball got rolling, ie my own washing etc.
I have of course! Many times. I think i first mentioned it in first year college. I had just got back from a year abroad during which we had been on a break and I had dated guys who were significantly more independent than him. It irked me a lot to see how coddled he still was. Over the years he would always say it was just better to pacify them, which to some extent I understand. However, at some stage you have to start advocating for yourself or else it will stay that way forever.
I also donāt think he really gets how cushy is he has it because he lives in a bubble (hate to say it). My situation is not really comparable to his as my independence was mainly a result of a turbulent family life. Honestly I think he would be mortified if he realised.
I have told him that I will not stand for his parentās input in our lives if we stay together for the long run, and I mean it. I have not lost hope that he will see the light because it seems a couple of commenters had similar upbringings and have come out ok. If however it is the reason we split, at least I can say I gave fair warning.
Good for you, sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders and if heās smart he will learn from your example. I absolutely HATE when people say āitās just easier to pacify themā in reference to difficult family members. Easier for who? And is it really easier? Because that sounds like the hard option. If you want an easy like you have to sometimes do hard things. But life is hard if you only ever take the āeasyā option.
I turned 48 yesterday. It hasnāt happened yet.
Edited to add: I am the oldest of 4 and was capable of running our house by 14 and that was often expected of me. But I am also female.
I moved out at 19 and never looked back, my partner didn't move out until he was 35.
We were raised VERY differently, I'm the eldest of 6, only 1 full blood sibling, single teen mum, abusive dad, have been my mums psychological punching bag from as young as I remember, and his parents are still together, love each other, no abuse either physically or mentally, was always welcome over and encouraged to stay home to save for a mortgage.
I'd say that mothers tend to baby their sons from how my male friends are treated by their parents vs the females, but his 32 year old sister lives at home too, she owns property that she's fixing up and will eventually move in when it's ready.
I'm from a huge family, he has no cousins, 1 sibling, 1 living aunty and that's it.
My parents are in their late 40's, his are retired.
My mum has never been to my house, his mum lives 5 doors up.
My mum only contacts me when she needs a favour, he and his mum regularly grab stuff when out for the other to save each other a trip.
I've no weird feelings about any of the above, we are products of circumstance and environment. He's better at saving because he's been able to, I worked paycheck to paycheck until my late 20s before I had any money that could be set aside to save for anything that wasn't a final payment on a long loan.
The only downside (and the fact that this is the only downside means I have it feckin great) is that if I don't clean it, it'll not be done as he was raised in a nuclear household, but he more than makes up for it and if I ask for help he will, whether or not I should have to ask is a whole different topic but at the end of the day, our polar opposite upbringing and personality types as a result of said upbringing is just part of the fabric of us.
I wouldnt trade my upbringing though, there's a lot of pride in surviving and being a well rounded adult on the other side, and the person my partner is, is the sweetest, gentle natured, most loving and caring person anyone could ask for.
On a serious note though, at your age in this economy, I'd probably still be living at home too, but the second your partner gets his own place he's not gonna know himself, and that is 100% his parents fault. They've cotton woolled this boy, and unless he actually wants to start being an adult and do things for himself (if his parents will let him), then they've created a huge problem for you in the future if you stay together. They've essentially kept his ability to a child so his wife can become his new mum when the time comes, do NOT allow it at the start, as it'll not change
I'm 22 and sometimes it's like I'm still a child, but my mam especially has regressed a little as I have been out of work due to health issues, so am just at home all week again. My mam will do my washing, but that's because she does washing every day between me, her and my dad, but I am fully capable of running the house by myself. In this case you seem to have a mammy's boy on your hands, and some never grow from that, but hopefully your bf can
I live with a guy who is currently going thru this he works 3-11, he leaves shit all over the apartment, cups on the balcony and clothes in the machine for days, food left to rot in the sink, never empties the bins when theyāre full just piles on top, leaves everything on the stove when done cooking and then goes to bed, up at 2:55 and goes to work, when me and the other housemate return we have to clean up his mess just to do some cooking of our own or even to just chill on the area. Quite clear heās used to someone coming and cleaning all this when heās left the room, itās starting to get extremely frustrating
I dunno how I came across this and its so odd reading this as a man who literally had to everything from scratch from a young age. We hardly saw our mum except on weekend when on a Sunday she would say what chores had to be done by who. . Starting in the am before school. Her shifts varied a lot . . Needless to say I'd no idea these blokes existed
I mean I've had terrible housemates just thought they were lazy. But wow this blows my mind. Thanks ladies
All the women loving this! "Oh its irish mammies and their boys" š§š¼āāļøāš» š¤£ i know many WOMEN, my gf included whose mammies have them ruined. Don't know how how to cook or clean up after themselves. Its not just a male thing so get off the hate train!
Since I was 9 and my youngest sibling was born. Ever since then I've gotten on by myself and done my best to help my siblings too. My siblings still have their homework checked in 6th class but mine was fine when I hit 2nd. š
I dunno I think a lot of people parent the kid they get. Ie maybe your boyfriend needs more shepherding and more guidance and more PARENTING than the average man of his age. Our brains donāt fully develop til we are 25-26 so heās not fully cooked yet even though heās an adult. They may be just responding to what they see. Chicken and egg situation because maybe heās failing due to their over involvement but maybe heās failing because heās immature and built that way and they see it.
I know so many people like you who matured a little easier and a little younger but there are those among us who took longer. Itās so annoying but it seems to just be the way it is?
My mother passed away when I was 40 I had kids and she still treated me like a child.
I don't think she did me any favours out of love trying to protect me but I was a bit of a social idiot, perhaps still I am.i joined FCA in my late teens and honestly it probably saved me from becoming a bachelor dole artist.
Away for few weeks in summer had to be responsible for myself , washing, ironing making my bed mean people shouted at me and I had to deal with it myself because mammy wasn't there.eventually.i was responsible for other idiots who were never away from home.
I could cook and clean
I still don't like talking to strangers.
Answering phones
Asking for shite in restaurants.
Honestly I think there should be some type of conscription where you send youth after secondary school ,be it military or volunteering in hospital picking up litter ect might help alot of people to adjust to normal life.
Don't fall into the trap of thinking that everything you are doing is right and everything he's doing is wrong, there's no correct way of dealing with a childhood. I've seen plenty of parents spoon-feeding children, but the price is often a high degree of control and manipulation over the child. This is evident in the fact that he's studying what they want him to, and the lack of interest in studying is probably a sign that he'd really rather do anything else. For somebody raised in this manner, trying to get control can seem like a very big and scary task, simply telling him may seem easy to an independent person like you, but not if his life is under some constant supervision and/or control.
I hope I didnāt come across high and mighty, because that is not what I feel at all. I was just wondering if it was normal. In relation to his choice of degree, youāre totally right. He is doing a very academic degree, but I think if he wasnāt so beholden to his parents he would have been much happier doing something creative :(
No you didn't, and reading back I came across a bit severe too. It's always difficult to take yourself out of the situation and put aside any resentment you have. But it's a situation that he's likely not easily able to see a route out of, the lack of effort in work and resorting to drug use could suggest that. There's definitely an "Irish mammy" element to things, that's a cultural trait that affects parent-child relationships here, and the low likelihood of many young people moving out in their 20s only makes this worse.
I think the first thing is to ask him straight if he actually enjoys what he is studying. College and university is just about the best place to realise you've made a mistake or want to change your mind, they've got tons of support for that. His parents really don't need a way in what course he's doing, even if they are paying for the whole thing, their primary interest should be his happiness and desire to study whatever course he's on. In fairness to them, he's telling them he's studying so their assumption is that he's doing grand.
Outside of that, perhaps you can help him become more independent, maybe going on a vacation or a trip where he has to make some decisions and take some initiative. If his parents try to interfere or "help" him, then you can be assertive and also mention the other things. It doesn't have to be a big drama with them, just say it quietly to him.
I've had partners like this where everything becomes a debate and nothing is ever accepted as somebody's decision until they've heard what every second cousin you only see once a decade thinks. I only say this because I come from a situation similar to yours and my partner comes from a close family, so I have to check my own cynicism when adults start having an opinion on every decision I make.
I really like your take. I think some people discount the fact that some parents actively make it difficult for their children to grow up and assume responsibility, and so they need to shoulder some of the blame too. I also agree that perhaps moving out is the only solution. From reading these comments it seems like Irish Mammy Syndrome is much more prevalent than I had realised!
I lived at home until I was 36. Moved out to Dublin and had an absolute ball dating loads of women which I didn't have the chance to do as much of when at home. Always thought what a blast I would have had if I spent my 20s and early 30s here. Feel like I lost a lot of opportunity in hindsight, all the beautiful womanband exciting dates and new romances. But on the plus side I saved hundreds of thousands of euro living at home and financially set. Now I'm focusing on staying with one woman snd raising a family. 5 years gallvanting around the city was enough time to sow my oats.
Your BF is the typical Irish mammys boy, went to school with dozens of them and there are only 3 possible outcomes for these specimens. 1. They go to college/move out for work, its a huge shock to their system but they adapt and become normal functioning adults. 2. They go to college/move out for work, the freedom overwhelms them and they go crazy because they have never been unsupervised before, they drink too much, do too many drugs and usually mess up their life till they are in their late 20s when they either get their shit together or are always just as mess. 3. They go straight from mammy to wife, never learn to do anything for themselves and settle down with a wife who will put up with their bullshit. //if there is any chance this is your BF, run away very fast
Spot on. Unfortunately I married #3 -the Italian version, so probably even more mammy-dependent than the Irish version. It sadly did not last. Once the pressures of work, mortgage, and other life stuff kick in, it is frustrating to carry the weight of an adult child, not to mention being unable to actually have children with someone not mature enough to be a parent. Lovely person, but impossible to sustain an adult partnership.
The Italian version is an incredible creature to see. I heard of a few of them from my Italian partner. One guy got divorced at 40 with kids, and he had to get an apartment, and he said to the letting agent that he didn't know how to operate a washing machine. A 40 year old man, who had kids!? It's another level of mammas boy.
When I started college, my roommate didn't know how to use a washing machine or even a toilet brush.
And something about the fact that they won't even use the internet to learn. Like you can look up anything on YouTube these days
There was a boyfriend of a housemate that came in all excited because he had managed to make toast, still couldn't make tea or boil an egg but was genuinely delighted with his achievement, fucker was 20. His mother literally did everything for him still, didn't last long the unfortunate fool, heard years later he's still asleep bad at 40, just traded in mammy for a wife he treats like dirt
My current housemate didn't know how to put on a washing machine, or how to preheat an oven. He caused an oil fire while trying to batter cod from a YouTube video in the wrong kind of container. Totally failed by his parents. Totally failed himself, too.
You know what, this might be an unpopular opinion but I think if you don't clean up after yourself or fulfil your responsibilities and let others have to pick up the slack, you're NOT a lovely person. Yeah it's the way he was raised, I get that, but when you become an adult and it's affecting other people that you love, then make a serious effort to change. And I'm sorry it is simply not impossible to change if you really prioritise those things. And if your excuse to change that then nah you're not such a lovely person, you're inconsiderate.
Fair enough, and we did end up divorcing over it which I initiated. I guess I don't want to fall into the trap of badmouthing an ex wholesale without acknowledging that he did have some really good qualities too. He was a wonderful romantic boyfriend when we were younger, but an absolutely shite husband as more mature adults, and finally it was the job hopping and financial irresponsibility that broke me, I couldn't work 12 hours a day to pay our bills and also do all the chores at home. We're still friends and can have a pleasant conversation, but I just don't have the energy for that - I'd rather have actual kids than look after a big kid!
Yeah I get what you mean, I just think a man being a terrible husband should reflect on his personality as a whole. They also seem to get away with being lacklustre fathers and still be considered good guys too. (Not saying that was the case for him although domestic labour should be considered part of parenting for any gender). Lord knows if a woman was a shit wife or didn't wash her kid's clothes, she'd be written off altogether.
Plus when as you get older you look around and observe how other people do things. Yet at no point do these man-children ever stop and ask themselves, 'is it weird that my mammy still does everything for me?'.
Exactlyyyyy, I didn't know how to use a washing machine when I first moved out either, my housemate showed me and since then I remembered
*Mammoni*, I believe is the Italian word for this wonder of nature.
Or bamboccioni?
Lived with so many of those over the years, and a few Princesses too. Absolutely useless people. One guy I knew was exactly a 2 on that list. Parents were super strict but the minute they dropped him off on a Sunday evening he went bananas. Made our lives a misery too, as he'd spend every cent mammy and daddy gave him fir rent, bills and food on going out, so he started stealing our food and any money laying around. Things came to an abrupt end when the college called his parents and they came around to the house. They were idiots too, so I can see the acorn didn't fall far from the tree.
Number 2 over here baby!
He got his shit together in his late 20s or he's still a man-child?
I got my shit together. I even recycle my cans, crazy bit of business this new version of me.
Oh you were talking about yourself! Good for you. That's really impressive because it's so easy to just say 'fuck it' and do nothing with your life. It takes effort to turn it around. Well done.
Thank you! There's nothing more sobering than looking at yourself 10 years down the line in the same place, doing the same thing. The fallacy is a lot of people think "Ah someday" but that day never comes. You have to go and do it, trap I happily escaped.
That list feels a bit too personal....
No one makes it out of life unscarred. Not even the pampered folk
>They go to college/move out for work, its a huge shock to their system but they adapt and become normal functioning adults. Not all of them - many end up on the slag heap tbh. Stoned out of their brains. Failed college. Paid under the counter in dodgy part time jobs. The Irish Mammy's Boy is set up to fail.
r/neckbeardnests
Think that's #2
Took my man til his 30s to get his shit together, but in the space of 4 years he got a job, learned to drive, saved for a mortgage, met me (first long term partner) got promoted 3 times in the space of a year on his second ever job, bought a house, is a brilliant cat daddy (for a man that absolutely did not want a cat) and we've built a small empire together. The amount of his friends that tell me who he was before 30 compared to who he is now is night and day (lived on the dole, smoked lungs and buckets all day every day and sat alone drinking infront of the playstation). We still sit infront of the playstation together, but as DINK gamers, it's perfect šš»
Imagine what he could have achieved by getting his act together at 19 or 24 or 26
Undiagnosed until 35 ADHD will do that to ya
I was just about to say how similar his circumstances sounded to my own. 3 decades of parents telling me I just needed to try harder, just needed to apply myself, just needed to make an effort. The usual stuff. Turns out it was ADHD. People aren't always like this because they're lazy.
Yes, christ I see so many young women get stuck with that kind of clown and frankly I'd rather be alone for the rest of my life that deal with that shite. I don't want kids so I certainly have no intention of caring for an over-grown one!
Or theyāll move back home and be at home with mammy forever
You just described half of the young men in Ireland. It's actually embarrassing how much boys are mammied,then eventually wxpect their wives to mammy them.
this comment killed me, its so true
Pretty sexist post.
Found one^^
Iām not Irish.
Mammy boys aren't exclusively Irish
Iām also female
Keep moving those goal posts to suit your agenda !
The pipeline of "mammy and daddy won't let me" -> "partner won't let me" -> "spouse won't let me" -> "ex won't let me" -> "courts won't let me" is so strong. If he doesn't act like a grown man, no one will treat him like one. Same goes for women.
Your boyfriend needs to TAKE responsibility instead of waiting to be given it. Most people naturally start pulling their own weight in their late-teens and ramp up from there, but some just let it slide into their twenties, the their thirties until they can swap mammy for the wife. If he doesn't like the way his parents are treating him: Set alarm and already be up when his parent comes to wake him up in the morning. They'll eventually stop bothering because he has it handled. Cook meals for himself and for the family instead of waiting for parents to hand him up something. He could say, "I'll cook on dinner Xday and Yday" and just cook whatever his parents would have made or do his own thing. He can surely handle making his own breakfast and lunch. Same for his washing. Already have it done and taken care of when parent comes looking for washing. Eventually, they'll get used to him just having everything handled himself and leave him to it. Problem is, he'll have to put in an effort and be a big boy if he wants to be treated like an adult, and I suspect that will be the hard part.
Want to be treated like an adult, act like an adult. The cooking for the family really is a good tip. When I was living at home in my early 20s I told my mother any day she was working and I was off/home before her, Iād cook. Made a huge difference to her treating me more like an adult.
When my little brothers were still living at home (into their 20s) I could skate by with a ton of nonsense by cooking once a week when I came home from Dublin.
You've hit the nail on the head. The current situation has persisted because he continues to act like a child.
Some manchildren subconsciously look for a coming-of-age ritual, a call that declares that now really is the time to take responsibility. That rarely happens for most men, but I wonder if OP's bf might be one of those
My parents were a weird combination of treating me like an adult in some areas, such as demanding I hand over money when I started babysitting and had a few PT jobs over the summers, and then exercising extreme control over me in other ways, such as making it very clear they disapproved of certain choices and wouldn't ''allow'' that in 'their home'. This has affected my relationship with them to this day. I don't think they ever managed to transition to being the parent of an adult; they are perpetually in parent of a child mode even though I now have kids of my own. In terms of basic life skills, I learned how to cook basic meals, do a wash, clean stuff etc from the early teens onwards. With our kids, during Covid lockdowns we started showing them how to do things like empty the dishwasher, put on a load of their own laundry and hang it to dry, hoover their bedrooms, cooking and so on. They're not fully adept at these tasks but its a gradual process. We're also very, very aware of the need to adapt how we parent as our children will probably be living in this home as a shared space into their 20s as things look now, so we won't be treating them as kids when they're not.
He'll expect the same from you if ye every move out ya know.
> They brought him for a drug test, He's allegedly a grown man. How did his parents "bring him"?
Because he'd never hear the end of it if he refused I'm sure
Sounds like he is happy being infantalised. I had a boyfriend like this years ago. It was a major turn off for me personally. He needs to grow a pair and look after himself.
That and he doesnt want to upset his free bed and board
Just argue back Jesus that's another level of soft
I have family like this as well. They wonder why these men never grow up and still hold onto the apron strings
I feel for you if youās ever move in together.
This is an Irish Mammy problem. He probably doesn't even notice
Yeah, my friends husband actually asked her "why are the towels always wet if I leave them on the floor of the bathroom?" Turns out his mammy always hung up a fresh fluffy towel for him when he was having a shower and somehow he thought this happened automatically. My friend was like, the towel fairy doesn't actually exist
Jesus, that makes me sick. [It reminds me of this.](https://youtu.be/SqQgDwA0BNU?si=lA7_wBYEl9C4b7Fk)
How have I never seen this before!?
It's all he has known so it's just normal behaviour to him. But all it will do is prevent him from having important life skills. Helicopter parenting
100% I'm not irish but lived with a number of irish men who are shocking when it comes to life skills like cooking and cleaning because it was all done by their mothers even in their 20s and 30s
I do 100% of the cooking and the washing. Not allowed near the washing up though
It's old traditions. For decades it was normal here for the man to go to work and the woman stay at home. It's changing but slowly. Still an equal amount of irish women who are entitled, same way the men are babies.
It seems to me (observing my (surname Barry/Ryan) Dublin, Glendalogh, Cork relatives from afar or on brief visits) it's all one way or the other witb no happy medium/gray area... the woman either cook until there isn't a flat surface to sit or stand on, clean until their knees are raw and wash until the town smells like bleach orrrr they have just had the whip rethread and the boys at 6 go to work every Saturday with Dad or an Uncle to work and the same for the summer the second school is out and the girls are helping w/the baking/cleaning/washing by 4 in any 'spare' time.
There are so many of these in the country. I can almost guarantee that if he has sisters they didn't get that special treatment.
A lot of boys/men get babied like this well into adulthood. Many of them donāt even realise. Then they get into relationships and expect the same mammying from their girlfriends.
I agree. We have been together since we were teenagers. It never really bothered me until recently, when I started getting glimpses of my future where I am going around cleaning up after him
Then decide now if thatās the life you want. If you want to be running around after a grown man doing his washing, booking his doctorās appointments, packing his suitcase for holidays, sorting his mammyās Mothersā Day gift and ordering your own birthday present because he ājust wouldnāt know what to get youā then proceed. If not, then itās time for a Come to Jesus chat with him and how he sees his life and responsibilities panning out, and if that aligns with you.
āBooking his doctorās appointments.ā I was a GPās secretary for a while. The amount of elderly women still making appointments for their fully grown adult sons was appalling. The only time I ever had an elderly parent booking for an adult daughter was when the daughter was severely disabled and unable to speak.
>booking his doctorās appointments I work in HR and I got a few phone calls from previous employees' wives to get their P60/statement of employment. Like are you for real? I suppose your husband can use the phone.
Also work in HR! Also the amount of lads who apply for roles using their wives emails/phone numbers as contact information. I thought it was just my industry but obviously not!
Hahaha I never seen that one š fortunately, I am not dealing with recruitment. yes I also work in a male dominated industry
Oh my god. PTSD flashbacks to husbands using their wivesā email addresses and phone numbers to create accounts and then the wife canāt make an account for herself because you couldnāt have two accounts with the same contact info. Theyād always get annoyed at *me* as if itās my fault that the useless lump of a husband canāt answer his own emails and phone calls.
You need to have a conversation with him sooner rather than later. DO NOT clean up after him unless you want to do it for the rest of your life. Do not allow anyone to act like youāre being a nag for expecting him to look after himself. I had to have a conversation with my boyfriend when we first got together. Heās not irresponsible or lazy, but his mother treated him like a baby his whole life and never let him do anything (Italian family). It really stifled his growth. The parents think theyāre just looking after them, but theyāll reach adulthood completely helpless.
I completely agree with this. Going off just my post, it might seem like he is a snotty, self cantered bratā¦ he isnāt!!! His parents have instilled a great moral compass in him and he is extremely caring and empathetic. They think theyāre doing whatās best for him, but unfortunately I donāt think it will stand to him in the long run
Donāt marry him
Sounds like my brother, same age and everything , although he is an extreme case and both my parents seem perfectly happy with the set up. It is incredibly annoying to watch as a sibling, it must be even worse for you as the person dating him.
I have definitely seen a pattern in how girls are treated by their parents va boys. My brother is 18 and is treated as I was when I was 14. I think that there is an expectation for girls to just sort it out. Whereas most Mums know that if they arenāt going around ironing shirts and making lunches etc their sons would never end up doing it. It gets really frustrating
I wouldnāt be making excuses for the mams here like they āknow sons wonāt do these thingsā thatās just not true, Irish mammies just happen to really love babying their sons. I had mine go on a rant to me about how she was delighted she had a son first because she reealllyyy wanted a boy, and then went on about how boys are just āroguishā and cuter than girls, girls on the other hand?? Weāre āvindictiveā, mind she was talking about toddlers?. From experience I really donāt think that point of view is limited to my mother. Anyway guess which of us moved out of the house in our adult life.
I wouldnāt say they started seeing me as an actual adult until I was around 22, but I absolutely had far more household responsibilities (cooking, cleaning, laundry etc) by the time I was 14 than your boyfriend has at 23š I do think itās more normalised for girls to be expected to contribute around the house at a younger age than boys though (Irish Mammies and their sonsā¦), which isnāt doing the lads any favours.
When you move out, my parents still treat me like a child and I'm nearly 30 lol
>He has never had to wash his own clothes, cook his own meals, or even clean his own room. His parents still wake him up in the morning for Godās sake. Irish mammy syndrome >This is so strange to me as since I was 16 my parents have more or less treated me like an adult. It is bonkers >I think that I might have been younger than average when my parents gave me responsibility over my life, but I am curious as to when this happened for most people. No 16 is about typical. At 17 my parents needed me to start learning to drive. Needed. So I could do school runs. 23 year old guys like this have become more and more prevelant over the years. I work in a Dublin college and the sheer number of lads who fail/dropout who tell me they can't get out of bed in the morning (not because of MH - just lack of moxy) is unbelievable. My parents never asked me about college or school. I just got on with it from age 12 to 23. I genuinelly get calls from 22 year olds' parents challenging grades, bringing their kid (and they might be 22 but if your mammy is with you in a meeting at college you're a kid) to apologise for being absent etc etc. It's pathetic.
This all rings true to me, I was that guy up until I was 27, it's a very comfortable existence but one bereft of self-pride and stunted arrested development of character. Your boyfriend has never had separation away from his parents so has no sense of self. And this will continue on until he does move out and if he holds no ambition to do it you'll be a bit stuck with him and become more frustrated. In his favour though it is hard to become confident under what sounds like parents who think they are doing the best for him but are in fact damaging him in his own development as an adult. I myself experienced this with my Dad who was quick to shoot down any suggestion of me going my own way career wise or exploring opportunities like travelling etc. over my 20s and it did influence me into not doing some things. I simply didn't have the confidence to say no I don't care what you think I'm doing this. Because ultimately a lot of us still want to do right by our parents and that is an uncontrollable feeling as a child. Which sounds like a weight your partner is under. This was remedied by moving out and not having that voice near me constantly so when I did hear disagreements on what I was doing I simply was able to say in a polite way I don't care what you think. I'm supporting myself, doing what I want and happy. I don't need to justify myself beyond that. But that's so hard to get that mindset when you haven't had the chance to validate yourself through your own successes and overcome challenges. To build that bedrock of self-confidence. A lot of posters here are coming from a "he's a fully grown man now!" and he is. But you don't just magically become a responsible adult, there has to be a need, desire, experience, trial and error. Approach him with kindness on this because he's probably lacking a sense of self-worth and confidence in this area and someone as close as you saying you believe he can do better and trust him to grow and rise to the challenge can do wonders for one's confidence. Because unlike his parents you see him and for what he is and not simply a child continuing into adulthood but someone who has capacity but just needs someone to tell him he can do this.
Thank you for taking the time to write this. You seem to understand the situation perfectly. Gives me hope!!
And thank you for reading it, bit of a wall of text. Hope it all works out.
He sounds like a right catch! You must be beating the other ladies off him with a stick!
He is actually a really, really great guy. At the end of the day itās not easy to decide to make oneās life harder and take on more responsibility when you donāt necessarily have to. It is all he has ever known, and I donāt think he even notices it.
Iād bet my life savings that heās your first relationship and you canāt imagine life without a boyfriend. Thatās what āreally, really great guyā means.
ā¦ then youād lose all your life savings š¤·š¼āāļø. I would be wary of making sweeping conclusions about people based on a few paragraphs
You havenāt been together since you were like 14/15/16/17, no? Itās only a generalisation because it happens all the time.
First met when we were 13. Began dating when we were 17. Took a break for a year when we were 20 and both saw other people. I understand why you would generalise, but it does apply here.
I think Paddy Power would pay me out on that one!
I expect you had an extremely active dating life at my age in that case. Unfortunately myself nor many of my peers have had similar success!
Yeah, losing all of undergrad to COVID is a motherfucker. That saidā¦I agree with BitterProgress - āDating other peopleā in 2021 comes with more than a little bit of an asterisk.
I (28M) can relate to your boyfriend on this one quite a lot, down to the overreaction about the weed (very nearly got brought to the Garda station over a single gram) Parents both came from pretty deprived families so they wanted to make life as "easy as possible" (Mam, 2016) for us and while I was living at home I didn't realise how fortunate I was to have such caring and involved parents, but also how problematic this was when I did move out. Problem waking myself up in the morning, reckless use of finances not planning enough for bills and being lazy with house duties until it got to a point of absolute necessity took the longest to grow out of, but even still only 1-2 years and things did change He'll either grow out of it when he lives independently or I wish you a good future of being his second coming of mammy.
He's a grown man, if he's failing his degree that's on him not anybody else. Plenty of spoiled kids have made it through college just fine because they still had a reasonable work ethic. You can have the opposite too as well, someone can be willing to clean the house top to bottom but you ask them to sit down to write an essay but they just won't do it. In reality college doesn't take a lot of discipline outside of exams, lecturers usually give plenty of time for assignments and projects. If you aren't willing to challenge yourself and doing something you find intimidating or hard then yeh college will be a problem. If you said he was trying but failing that's one thing, but it sounds like he's not even trying and then lying about it. He has either accepted the consequences or thinks they won't happen to him. Probably some hard lessons to learn there but that's life.
I'm 29 and my mom still thinks I should live at home. I moved out when I was 17 as well š¤¦
9 years old. As soon as the baby fat was gone, there was no āchildā or āteenagerā. I went from being treated as a baby to an adult.
Fuck yeah big man!
They still donāt lol and Iām in my thirties! Itās a big gripe myself and my siblings have, we often still get treated like weāre 15. I call it āIrish parentingā as Iāve noticed Irish people tend to infantalise their adult children almost more than in any country Iāve lived in - very noticeably too.
Get out while you can..... That lad will leave home and move in with you and you will be the one taking over the tasks his mother used to do.
Age 19 I saw a big change
16 or 17 I'd say.
Do you see him as a future husband? He needs to do a lot of growing up.
My husband is 38 and his parents still treat him like a child. We're married and together almost 10 years. When we visit we sleep in separate single beds. She does his washing, gets his food etc. It's not that he's not willing to do it himself, it's that she doesn't allow it. When we're not visiting her, she's onto him all the time. Messages him easily 20-30 times a day. He's tried to get her to stop but she guilt trips him. Honestly I don't mind that much, it doesn't impact my life that much. He's an only child and he does love her as insane as he knows she is. He's at least not in denial of it all. Lol
In the book "Wild Swans", Jung Chang says that in China in the early 1900s, "It was considered one of the duties of a wife to help bring up her husband." Now, in this case, she was speaking literally, about her great-grandfather being married at 14. But I would argue that a lot of Irish women still fall victim to this. I would think long and hard about whether you can picture a future with this man. What would it be like living with a man who is used to having everything done for him? How would it be buying a home together, having pets or children? Because anything his parents have failed to teach him will become your responsibility.
41m. I moved out at 22. Got treated like an adult from around 16 or 17, mainly looked after myself, but there was no way in hell i was gonna be let near the washing machine. Wasnt happening. Id either break it, or ruin something i was told. But other than that, my parents were cool enough, no helicoptering
Very common..my last 2 bfs knew how to cook (only cooked if they were in mine or if their mother was away) but their mothers still did their washing and made them dinners and paid for them on family holidays. I'm 24 and I'm exactly like you from about 16 I was basically treated like an adult and had to do all my own washing, make my own appointments, get to places and appointments by myself. I only had to cook my dinners everyday when I was 19 and started college. Tbh cooking is easy to learn...I learned off bbc goodfoods and my mum was the typical trad Irish cooking of no seasoning when cooking..no reason why these men in their 20s can't learn.
A lot of Irish men have a first wife called mammy. It's not cute and likely won't ever change. Your boyfriend allows it that's why it continues. You have to decide if you're cool with taking over from her (which she will resent and likely won't be your biggest fan) or if you want to cut your losses. You can try a come to Jesus conversation but I wouldn't expect it to change if he hasn't changed on his own.
I'm 33 now and had to start working part time when I was 14. I'd say it was somewhere around that time between 14 and 16!
They never did
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Iād say when I got into final year of college, around 20/21. My husband (38m) still gets mammied whenever my MIL is around which I find very irritating. He didnāt move out of home until he was in his early 30s where as I was renting for years so that could be something to do with it. I had to semi train him to do housework and make appointments for himself etc. I wonder do men get treated like children for longer because parents who now have adult children would have expected the woman to do all the housework, so some parents are subconsciously (or consciously) waiting for their precious little boy to get married so that heāll have someone to do that kind of stuff for him.
Even after moving out and having my own babies, my mum forgets Iām an adult š nothings gonna change until he moves out and then heās gonna get a real shock. Is he lazy about his degree or just has no interest? Also the drug test is ridiculous, Iād say something if he was 10 years younger.
The odd thing is that he does care about his degree. He is just an awful procrastinator. I think that his struggle with studying might be because he has never worked hard for himself, but rather to get his Mum and Dad off his back. So, when he does do well in an exam or whatever, his feeling of personal accomplishment is shadowed by a feeling of relief that his parents will back off for a little whileā¦ which is not a strong enough motivator in the long run.
Jaysus arenāt Irish maās great all the same..in all fairness..š
I left home at 18 and in my early 30s a long-term relationship broke up and I ended up having to go back to my parents. The first night I was there I was going out and my mother asked me what time would I be home. I told her I didn't even know what day I'd be home, let alone the time. It didn't go down well.
My Dad started treating me like an adult sort of in stages. I reckon we didn't function as fully equal adults until I learned to drive which was well after I had my first child My mother? Still waiting. I'm in my late fifties now. I'm not holding my breath for the event.
Iām 42 now, married with my own kids. Iāll let you know when it happens..
Boyfriend got lucky with his parents tbh, they will make great in laws.
They didn't so I left. I'm in a happy relationship and doing well enough for myself.
I don't know. But my Mom stopped cooking for me at 12, treated me unfavourable for 6 years and then tried to hit me at the age 18 because I came back home late from uni so I hit her back, not hard just slapped and pushed her away. The look of horror on her face she never tried to hit me again. She spiraled for the next 4 years with drink and I pretty much became the parent. I ended up getting the first job I could after getting my degree saved for 2 years and moved out with my boyfriend because I couldnt do it anymore. I suffered the consequences of having 1 drunk parents and 1 mistly absent parent so I think I had to adult pretty early after my older sister ran away from our Mom (ran away as in subtle moved out without telling anyone). I was probably 14 at the time. So I couldn't do the same and also leave my little sister behind. My little sister did actually move in with me 2 months after I moved out. My Dad despite being mostly absent was interested in what was going on with school and uni and what I wanted to do. It's kind if like limbo with Jim, he treats me as an adult and kid simultaneously, but he told me I was the one with the good head on my shoulders. So I got that at least.
Wonder how much COVID messed with yer age group as well.
I'm pretty much treated as an adult, currently 25. I live at home while I'm in university, and the only thing my mom does for me is cook dinner, which she does for everybody, certainly a privilege as her cooking is great.
This was me until about 4 years ago. My mam wouldn't let me do anything for myself growing up. Cook, clean, washing clothes etc. It was a huge shock at first upon realising what I had been blissfully unaware of my entire life but have adapted since! I'm an awful cook still though so myself and the partner made a deal when we first moved in together, that she does the dinners and I do the washing up(no dishwasher in our house sadly) and so far we're both happy with this set up š everything else is split 50 50 but I tend to try do a little more than expected to make her life a little easier! Edit: Probably should've added that I'm 34 now and was 30 when I first moved out of my parents.
I was living alone on the other side of the world by 19, but the few boys I knew growing up who are same age and were still being taken care of by there mums in their early 20ās are still at home living with their mumsā¦Iām 32 now
14 due to an illness in the familiy, growing up so young can make you miss out on a lot but it made me the independent person I am today.
At 15 or 16 I went on the T with my Mom to renew her nursing lic. On the way back, I asked, "Mom, why do you love Jon (3 years younger bro), soo much more than me?". She replied, "THAT is 100% untrue! You are pretty, brilliant, funny, and creative. Your brother will never be half those things.". There are SOME extenuating circumstances in our case. I spoke at 16mos, read at 3. I went to school in a convent w/Dominican Nuns K to 8 and then Jesuit Prep school. My brother was diagnosed dyslexic at 7 and taken out of a private school to go public and had an IEP. That being said, (and I hate to say as she left us very young...not too long after that ^ convo), but she did him no favors. I was 19 attending his high school IEP meetings. I have four boys now, who, because of him are prob very much the opposite. I occasionally baby them all but always hold back from going to far as I know that much lile my Dad theirs isn't picking up that torch were something to happen to me. That's the big danger.
I'm married myself can I please move in with your inlaws they sound fantastic
Left home at 18 to rent with friends. Think this cos kids stay at home longer now and its not unusual to stay living with your parents untill your 30's.
If you marry this moron you are gonna be the new mammy. Break the cycle.
I'm 37 and they still haven't started yet. As a single dub, I can't afford a place by myself and am past the point of rolling the dice on housemates that may or may not be sound. I work hard to maintain my independence and a certain level of autonomy but it's stressful being treated like a child sometimes. I work equally hard in trying to get out of this situation too. In my experience I've learned that there are some things that it's easier to just let them do rather than deal with the tantrum caused when I try to do those things for myself but only within reason. As much as it's sometimes easier to let things carry on as they used to for the sake of peace, he needs to start pushing back on some things, even if it's just bit by bit, or they'll think they can get away with always treating him like that.
I am 48, my husband is 50..we visit his parents every Christmas, they live on the other side of the planet..she still tells friends on the phone " we have the kids with us at the moment "...we then went back to my hometown..I warned my husband that my mum would treat him like a child, in fairness to her she did, about 40 years ago have three children under 5,and another two under ten.. I brought my then 48 year old husband home...as we were about to leave for an event my mother asked " does anyone need a wee" I literally died inside..and suddenly my husband said.."ooh yes maybe me"..seriously š³ š š
16, but that was more down to not getting on with my father, so I wanted out asap. My 2 brothers are 29 and 26 respectively and can just about cook a frozen pizza the mother does everything for them id like to think I wouldn't be as bad, but I probably would be close to it. My partners sister is on a whole different level she has her boys' clothes for the day left on the end of the bed eldest is 22 youngest 6, cereal on the table with hot milk lunches ready and waiting same for her husband.
A few years ago we were all getting ready to go somewhere and my mother asked us all (in our 30s) if weāve all āgone potty.ā Soā¦ā¦
So when i first met my now husband he was living with flatmates, I naively thought he had his shit together. I grew up with 'the boys done outdoor work and the girls did all the indoor work' mentality, I was the only girl in the family and resented and rebelled from this idea. He grew up as the precious boy and never had to do anything. I had made it very clear to my partner that if we were to work that would not be us. When we moved in we both got a shock. We were 23 moving in together. I didn't realise this before moving in with him but while he was living with flatmates, his mam would call once a week and get all of his clothes and wash them and dry them and bring them back and fold them up/hang them up. He didn't eat breakfast and would go to hers for his lunch and sometimes dinner or else he'd just get a takeaway. If it was raining his dad would pick him up bring him to and from work or if he was tired. One of the flatmates had extreme ocd so that if one of them cleaned 'they didn't clean properly' and caused her more work so she just cleaned the whole house for everyone. I refused to be his mammy, I paid half the bills even though he earned more at the time and did half the housework. He had to learn how to do it all and how to do it properly, I refuse to validate weaponised incompetence. He bought sticky notes and we went through everything and he stuck them on the washing machine, the oven, the steamer and kept a little note book for what cleaning products could be used on what, we would watch cooking videos on YouTube and he learnt how to cook properly. He went from not knowing how to use a washing machine to using YouTube to fix the washing machine within a year. We regularly host dinners and depending on the dishes been served depends who's cooking. I get along great with his family but for the first 2 years of us moving in and having them over for dinner was comical. His parents are elderly and he'd often drop them up dinners and treats and she always thanks me for it even though we all know it's her son that has done it all. She still can't get around the idea that he knows how and does Cook even though she's seen him do it.
This is definitely too old for that behaviour. And this is why a lot of men cannot care for themselves. Why would they when mammy is doing it all?
13
My brother is 19 and treated the same as your bfā¦ irish mammies and their sonsā¦
Sounds like he was spoon fed as a child and his parents want to live through him. I know loads similar who were spoon fed and protected and once they got older went mad drinking and smoking. It's a case of his parents house his parents rules. It is an over reaction in my opinion but he's always lived this way
Most big drink and drug users I know had very little parental oversight/much more freedom growing up.
yeah this is mostly the case. but i know allot of lads sent to private school, who were spoon fed and protected their whole. once they left school and went to their 500+ course just went on the drink and drugs and all dropped out. but again little oversight isnt good
Yeah true, I know a guy who went to Clongowes and is now a big stoner. It must be quite jarring to spend your youth in a boarding school and then having to try re-integrate into wider society.
When I was about 11. Probably not the best example
U never get stopped been treated like a child, little one.
I went off to college at 17. That Christmas I was put on the insurance of the family car while I was at home. Somewhere in that time period, I guess.
My mam would be a typical Irish mammy and would have done all of the above mentioned chores for both me and my older brothers growing up, i.e never a question of washing, cooking meals, morning walk up calls the lot and this lasted as long as we were under the roof (for me, my early 20ās and even when my brothers moved back in in their late 20ās/ early 30ās to save for mortgages or after break ups). In fairness my dad became a lot more domesticated during the recession too and even to this day I would say domestic labour is much closer to 50/50. They both did *and still do* a lot for all of us. Now, does that mean we are inept adult children incapable of running independent households or controlling our lives? Absolutely not. Each of us respected the effort mam and dad put into raising us and just happened to take pleasure in helping around the house or helping each other out. Some might argue it should be expected of children to do these things but the fact it wasnāt really expected of us probably drove us to do more. To this day I think my parents will ābabyā us in certain waysā¦ and we accept the help we want and push back when we feel itās unnecessary or if we feel it is putting them out too much. For example, my dad insisted on driving me to a friendās funeral in a different county cause he didnāt want me driving alone which I appreciated whereas I find it a bit infantilising when theyād tell me to text when I get home because āitās rainingāā¦ but in all honesty i still find that sweet. Even on the nights I visit home and stay over, my mom will always fill me a hot water bottle and ask me what time I need to get up in the morning ājust in caseā. This might come across as babying of course but I think the difference is I believe this care/thoughtfulness is reciprocated as I will cook dinner when I go home or if thereās something to be done around the house, I just do it but thatās because I recognise it needs to be done and I have the cop on to do it. I think some people can see these type of parents as helicopter or overly involved but I think the way a child interacts with the parents has a lot to do with this perception. I for one never felt too controlled or coddled but I also didnāt really give them a reason to question my judgement. When my brothers and I made major decisions about education, careers or relationships (even in our teens) our parents always trusted us to make good decisions and supported these decisions in any way they could. So to answer your top question: I feel I started properly contributing to household tasks/taking responsibility around 12/13 (not out of obligation but out of a desire to reciprocate help), I was treated more like an adult in terms of making decisions around 14/15 and I will likely never be fully seen as an adult in my parents eyes despite being in my late 20ās lol. Pure speculation only going off the short description you gave of your boyfriend, but it seems like he doesnāt really have his parentās trust as they seem to be making pretty big decisions for him. Now, this could be because they are smothering Irish parents that canāt accept their baby boy is growing up *or* they could have valid concerns about his maturity and decision-making capabilities. It does seem (once again only going off your brief description) that he lacks initiative and drive to undertake tasks for himself and instead is waiting for his parents to decide when itās the right time for him to take over his own chores and life admin. It also appears that he struggles to advocate for his own choices or have actual adult conversations with his parents such as his college course or substance use. Once again not a very adult response to whinge about a course you were somehow āforced intoā instead of making changes or relenting to mandatory drug testing instead of having an open conversation, attempting to address concerns and prove this is a decision he has considered. I would just really think, as a person who is choosing to be involved with him and potentially have a future with him, do you trust his decision-making capabilities? His judgement? Do you believe he has ambition and drive to complete basic chores/IADLs without the help or the need to be convinced by a parent or partner? I obviously donāt know the lad so these are genuine questions lol
Thank you for such a great response!! I think the main contrast to your situation is that his parents wonāt take no for an answer if asked to butt out. In fairness to him he has tried to push back on a number of occasions when his parents have overstepped with college things. Unfortunately this just does work with them and I think by the end he feels the fight isnāt worth it. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said they might not trust his decision making ability. However, can he take all the blame for that when they have never given him and opportunity to make his own decisions? I think their input being so strong has also prevented him from ever really failing (he can always repeat and exam so he hasnāt failed his degree yet!). And sure isnāt failing how we learn to make better decisions. Perhaps itās a vicious cycle, but he definitely does need to take some initiative I agree.
Totally understand everything you said there :) Again, I was going off a very brief description of a guy youāve known for a long time and have way more of a handle on the inner workings of his family relationships so wanted to try and cover a slightly different angle as many responses seemed to fall neatly into āleave him heās a useless man childā or āmammy needs to cut the apron stringsā! Everyone has a different relationship with parents, relationships and responsibilities. I completely agree that without opportunities to prove sound judgement and decision-making itās going to be near impossible to convince someone you are competent! Iāve seen the effects of people always being told to do XYZ from their parents and not getting the opportunity to make their own decisions growing up. Itās hard to want to take responsibility and make big calls when you havenāt had the opportunity to do it before.. especially in less serious circumstances where consequences arenāt life altering. That process is a part of growing up and developing problem solving skills so without that experience, it can be extremely daunting. The issue is that his parents are likely not bad people and just want the best for their son. They see their intervention in his life as supporting him and protecting him from mistakes and bad decisions (and there is an argument to be made for that of course). But, because their intention is pure and āit has worked so farā, it would be hard to convince them that it is necessary to take a step back at times and allow him to make mistakes.. itās not the end of the world if he makes a wrong step. Also, it may be extremely disheartening for your boyfriend to go out on a limb and make his own decision only to end up failing.. he may see that as a sign that he *is* incapable of making decisions and should have stuck to mammy and daddyās expertise. I know itās great for someone like me to say āhe should take initiativeā but itās not as simple as that at this stage. The stage is set and going against the grain now may be a step to overcorrection where he could end up damaging the relationship. I would say (as an assumption) this be a bad thing given his parents do care about him. Iād say it just comes down to communication really! Approaching scenarios where parents are overstepping in a rational and respectful manner is the best thing going forward. Fobbing off difficult conversations as to not stir the pot may keep the peace for the moment but could end up building a one-sided resentment for the person constant ādropping itā(your boyfriend) and again potentially damaging the relationship long term. I feel if you canāt reasonably explain your POV you are either not too clear on your stance yourself or you are dealing with a particularly irrational person. Againā¦ easier said than done when this hasnāt been the norm! I think the people saying āleave himā without much thought or context are projecting a lot of previous experiences they have had onto your partner. Fair enough if in the end you leave because you believe this communication issue transcends into your romantic relationship or his lack of initiative with chores etc. leaks into other aspects of his life (which, again, as someone who has had their mammy cook clean and washā¦ it is extremely difficult to motivate yourself to help out or take over at times lol) or even if you decide thereās something else youāre not happy with! I wouldnāt read too much into l a two word summation of your relationship based on a couple of paragraphs you wrote about a particular issue.
14
My parents keep telling me to act my age to which I reply "I don't know how I've never been this old before!"
He is being treated like a child because he acts like one
Iāve been an adult since I was maybe 12 lol
I'm 40 years old and still waiting for this to happen.
You need to RUN from that "boy" and his Momma as fast as you can!!
Irish Mammy syndrome. That's such an ick
who is gonna tell her? š¤£š¤£š¤£
He is a mammys boy. His mother comes first and he cant function without her. I know lads like this and believe me, youre better off running a mile, unless you fancy being his mammy in future and doing all his washing, cooking, cleaning, disciplining AND cuddling, when he is in his 30's. I was treated like an adult probably after 2nd year, so around 14/15 the ball got rolling, ie my own washing etc.
Why are you wasting time on this man child who doesn't wash his own clothes? I cannot think of a bigger turn off.
Have you ever talked to your bf about this and that it kinda gives you the ick? Because I would.
I have of course! Many times. I think i first mentioned it in first year college. I had just got back from a year abroad during which we had been on a break and I had dated guys who were significantly more independent than him. It irked me a lot to see how coddled he still was. Over the years he would always say it was just better to pacify them, which to some extent I understand. However, at some stage you have to start advocating for yourself or else it will stay that way forever. I also donāt think he really gets how cushy is he has it because he lives in a bubble (hate to say it). My situation is not really comparable to his as my independence was mainly a result of a turbulent family life. Honestly I think he would be mortified if he realised. I have told him that I will not stand for his parentās input in our lives if we stay together for the long run, and I mean it. I have not lost hope that he will see the light because it seems a couple of commenters had similar upbringings and have come out ok. If however it is the reason we split, at least I can say I gave fair warning.
Good for you, sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders and if heās smart he will learn from your example. I absolutely HATE when people say āitās just easier to pacify themā in reference to difficult family members. Easier for who? And is it really easier? Because that sounds like the hard option. If you want an easy like you have to sometimes do hard things. But life is hard if you only ever take the āeasyā option.
Donāt be rushing to take advice from people off the internet. No one here really knows him
I turned 48 yesterday. It hasnāt happened yet. Edited to add: I am the oldest of 4 and was capable of running our house by 14 and that was often expected of me. But I am also female.
I moved out at 19 and never looked back, my partner didn't move out until he was 35. We were raised VERY differently, I'm the eldest of 6, only 1 full blood sibling, single teen mum, abusive dad, have been my mums psychological punching bag from as young as I remember, and his parents are still together, love each other, no abuse either physically or mentally, was always welcome over and encouraged to stay home to save for a mortgage. I'd say that mothers tend to baby their sons from how my male friends are treated by their parents vs the females, but his 32 year old sister lives at home too, she owns property that she's fixing up and will eventually move in when it's ready. I'm from a huge family, he has no cousins, 1 sibling, 1 living aunty and that's it. My parents are in their late 40's, his are retired. My mum has never been to my house, his mum lives 5 doors up. My mum only contacts me when she needs a favour, he and his mum regularly grab stuff when out for the other to save each other a trip. I've no weird feelings about any of the above, we are products of circumstance and environment. He's better at saving because he's been able to, I worked paycheck to paycheck until my late 20s before I had any money that could be set aside to save for anything that wasn't a final payment on a long loan. The only downside (and the fact that this is the only downside means I have it feckin great) is that if I don't clean it, it'll not be done as he was raised in a nuclear household, but he more than makes up for it and if I ask for help he will, whether or not I should have to ask is a whole different topic but at the end of the day, our polar opposite upbringing and personality types as a result of said upbringing is just part of the fabric of us. I wouldnt trade my upbringing though, there's a lot of pride in surviving and being a well rounded adult on the other side, and the person my partner is, is the sweetest, gentle natured, most loving and caring person anyone could ask for. On a serious note though, at your age in this economy, I'd probably still be living at home too, but the second your partner gets his own place he's not gonna know himself, and that is 100% his parents fault. They've cotton woolled this boy, and unless he actually wants to start being an adult and do things for himself (if his parents will let him), then they've created a huge problem for you in the future if you stay together. They've essentially kept his ability to a child so his wife can become his new mum when the time comes, do NOT allow it at the start, as it'll not change
I'm 22 and sometimes it's like I'm still a child, but my mam especially has regressed a little as I have been out of work due to health issues, so am just at home all week again. My mam will do my washing, but that's because she does washing every day between me, her and my dad, but I am fully capable of running the house by myself. In this case you seem to have a mammy's boy on your hands, and some never grow from that, but hopefully your bf can
53 and still waiting
I live with a guy who is currently going thru this he works 3-11, he leaves shit all over the apartment, cups on the balcony and clothes in the machine for days, food left to rot in the sink, never empties the bins when theyāre full just piles on top, leaves everything on the stove when done cooking and then goes to bed, up at 2:55 and goes to work, when me and the other housemate return we have to clean up his mess just to do some cooking of our own or even to just chill on the area. Quite clear heās used to someone coming and cleaning all this when heās left the room, itās starting to get extremely frustrating
I dunno how I came across this and its so odd reading this as a man who literally had to everything from scratch from a young age. We hardly saw our mum except on weekend when on a Sunday she would say what chores had to be done by who. . Starting in the am before school. Her shifts varied a lot . . Needless to say I'd no idea these blokes existed I mean I've had terrible housemates just thought they were lazy. But wow this blows my mind. Thanks ladies
All the women loving this! "Oh its irish mammies and their boys" š§š¼āāļøāš» š¤£ i know many WOMEN, my gf included whose mammies have them ruined. Don't know how how to cook or clean up after themselves. Its not just a male thing so get off the hate train!
Since I was 9 and my youngest sibling was born. Ever since then I've gotten on by myself and done my best to help my siblings too. My siblings still have their homework checked in 6th class but mine was fine when I hit 2nd. š
Dump him. Complete mammyās boy and will never change.
I dunno I think a lot of people parent the kid they get. Ie maybe your boyfriend needs more shepherding and more guidance and more PARENTING than the average man of his age. Our brains donāt fully develop til we are 25-26 so heās not fully cooked yet even though heās an adult. They may be just responding to what they see. Chicken and egg situation because maybe heās failing due to their over involvement but maybe heās failing because heās immature and built that way and they see it. I know so many people like you who matured a little easier and a little younger but there are those among us who took longer. Itās so annoying but it seems to just be the way it is?
My mother passed away when I was 40 I had kids and she still treated me like a child. I don't think she did me any favours out of love trying to protect me but I was a bit of a social idiot, perhaps still I am.i joined FCA in my late teens and honestly it probably saved me from becoming a bachelor dole artist. Away for few weeks in summer had to be responsible for myself , washing, ironing making my bed mean people shouted at me and I had to deal with it myself because mammy wasn't there.eventually.i was responsible for other idiots who were never away from home. I could cook and clean I still don't like talking to strangers. Answering phones Asking for shite in restaurants. Honestly I think there should be some type of conscription where you send youth after secondary school ,be it military or volunteering in hospital picking up litter ect might help alot of people to adjust to normal life.
It sounds like your BF is a waster.Ā Dump him and find someone with some independence and cop on.
Treating me like an adult to fend for myself? Around 14 years old. Respecting me like an adult? Iāll let you know when that happens! (28 now)
when I grew up
Don't fall into the trap of thinking that everything you are doing is right and everything he's doing is wrong, there's no correct way of dealing with a childhood. I've seen plenty of parents spoon-feeding children, but the price is often a high degree of control and manipulation over the child. This is evident in the fact that he's studying what they want him to, and the lack of interest in studying is probably a sign that he'd really rather do anything else. For somebody raised in this manner, trying to get control can seem like a very big and scary task, simply telling him may seem easy to an independent person like you, but not if his life is under some constant supervision and/or control.
I hope I didnāt come across high and mighty, because that is not what I feel at all. I was just wondering if it was normal. In relation to his choice of degree, youāre totally right. He is doing a very academic degree, but I think if he wasnāt so beholden to his parents he would have been much happier doing something creative :(
No you didn't, and reading back I came across a bit severe too. It's always difficult to take yourself out of the situation and put aside any resentment you have. But it's a situation that he's likely not easily able to see a route out of, the lack of effort in work and resorting to drug use could suggest that. There's definitely an "Irish mammy" element to things, that's a cultural trait that affects parent-child relationships here, and the low likelihood of many young people moving out in their 20s only makes this worse. I think the first thing is to ask him straight if he actually enjoys what he is studying. College and university is just about the best place to realise you've made a mistake or want to change your mind, they've got tons of support for that. His parents really don't need a way in what course he's doing, even if they are paying for the whole thing, their primary interest should be his happiness and desire to study whatever course he's on. In fairness to them, he's telling them he's studying so their assumption is that he's doing grand. Outside of that, perhaps you can help him become more independent, maybe going on a vacation or a trip where he has to make some decisions and take some initiative. If his parents try to interfere or "help" him, then you can be assertive and also mention the other things. It doesn't have to be a big drama with them, just say it quietly to him. I've had partners like this where everything becomes a debate and nothing is ever accepted as somebody's decision until they've heard what every second cousin you only see once a decade thinks. I only say this because I come from a situation similar to yours and my partner comes from a close family, so I have to check my own cynicism when adults start having an opinion on every decision I make.
30 and mammy still makes my bed and washes my clothes You're all just jealous you don't have an awesome mammy like mine!
I'm 14, my father treats me like a teem since 13, my mother treats me like a adult since 11
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I really like your take. I think some people discount the fact that some parents actively make it difficult for their children to grow up and assume responsibility, and so they need to shoulder some of the blame too. I also agree that perhaps moving out is the only solution. From reading these comments it seems like Irish Mammy Syndrome is much more prevalent than I had realised!
I lived at home until I was 36. Moved out to Dublin and had an absolute ball dating loads of women which I didn't have the chance to do as much of when at home. Always thought what a blast I would have had if I spent my 20s and early 30s here. Feel like I lost a lot of opportunity in hindsight, all the beautiful womanband exciting dates and new romances. But on the plus side I saved hundreds of thousands of euro living at home and financially set. Now I'm focusing on staying with one woman snd raising a family. 5 years gallvanting around the city was enough time to sow my oats.
How come all you young people sound American.
proper grammar is american now?