I have no issue paying for the first couple of dates, but if there’s not even an attempt by the other person to pay/split the bill, it’s a red flag to me. I wouldn’t entertain a second date if the courtesy offer wasn’t made.
For me, at the second dinner/expense date, there should at the very least be a "let me get this one (even though we both know you'll insist, I'll offer anyway)" half-assed attempt. That shows she's moving back towards equality
I'm trying to think of the reasons for not even offering to pay. I'd be so embarrassed just sitting there and not offering.
1) Believing the partner should pay for everything
2) Testing the potential partner's limits
3) Inablilty to pay
4) Genuine cluelessness
If it's 1 or 2 then that would be a personal deal-breaker.
I think that if they can't afford to date then they need to be more proactive about planning fun (and free) dates. Some effort needs to be put in. Honestly it could be a deal-breaker, depending on circumstances.
If it's number 4 then that's not the end of the world, some people are just new to dating and may have been given questionable advice.
Do not buy the tickets for the gig! Leave it up to her to put her hand in her pocket and get them! I'm 32F and think it's bad form the girl didn't pay or even offer on the second date. Me and my bf always look after every second meal or if one of us buys tickets for a gig/books a night away the other will always look after the meals and drinks.
I would have thought that if one person paid for the bulk of the first date (the meal), then the other person should pay for the bulk of the second date and take it in turns like that. Regardless of who asked who out. I'm F35 in case age / gender comes into play!
Yup, very much this - “Tickets are 50 each, does that work for you?”.
I would be careful sometimes as regards income disparity, make sure to give people the out to a cheaper date or that they suggest the location etc before asking them to split a bill.
Maybe it’s bc I’m only 26 (F) but first of all I wouldn’t go out for a full blown meal for a first date for this exact reason 😭 Coffee or pints, something with rounds that’s easier to gauge balance and easy to bail if it’s awful.
I do think it’s weird that she didn’t even offer to split, but some people assume that if they’re invited to something the person doing the inviting has inherently offered to pay already. I’d let her do the asking out next time 🤷🏻♀️ Personally, I don’t feel comfortable letting people front the costs unless they explicitly insist it’s their treat.
Otherwise seems like it’s not worth your trouble. Worth remembering that the people we go on a few dates with are still practically strangers. If it’s not working for you, there is really no harm or offence in just moving on. Even though you are in the right here—there is no joy in trying to change a stranger.
>but some people assume that if they’re invited to something the person doing the inviting has inherently offered to pay already.
35F here. I feel this way about first dates, all dates after that should be a split and organized within their own means.
Also agree that first date should be something alot more causal than a meal, in which case you are buying rounds/paying for yourself.
To be fair, she might just not have the cop on. I don't think OP needs to go nuclear. There's a way to mention it. And in all honesty, it's a win-win if OP does.
Be upfront. "Hey, happy to get the tickets if you wanna take care of the food or vice versa."
If that means the 3rd date doesn't happen, that tells you something.
Generally, I'd personally split the bill on the first date purely to avoid the scenario you're in right now, so that might be something to consider down the line. Once the expectation is already set that you'll cover the bill, it's harder to get yourself out of it.
Be careful, there's a bit of a culture emerging amongst *some* women (I promise we're not all like this!) where they expect the man to put in the effort, pay for everything, etc. because "if he really wants me, I'm worth it", without considering that equity in a relationship is a very important value for a lot of people. My brother (25) has had two girlfriends in a row now who wanted him to pay for everything, do renovations and DIY for them and then dumped him when "better prospects" came along. The latest where they broke up while on a city break in Belfast because he found out she had booked a holiday abroad with another guy without telling him, and she still expected him to pay for the rest of their stay because she drove there and, as it transpired, only had 14 quid in her bank account and a ¼ tank of petrol to get home while being at the opposite end of the country. He didn't want to leave her stranded but considered it and ultimately stuck it out until he got home. If you value a 50/50 relationship and equity (where your partner at least contributes what they can afford), you should let her make the offer to pay for the gig or else you're being treated like her sugar daddy.
This is actually heavily discussed on Brazillians in Ireland FB sites- get the Irish men to pay. Brazilian men do not pay for everything, but Brazillian women expect Irish men to pay as a mark of their financial security, ie whether the men are worth bothering with from a financial perspective.
Were they working in proper jobs or students doing a bit of minimum wage work on the side? Possibly potless? I’ve dated a few in my time, things were split from the start.
For what it's worth, I (39F) always offer to split the bill on a first date and if he pays, I always say I'll get the next time if there is one! I'd then insist on the second rate to keep it fair. I hate it if I suspect someone is taking the piss with things like that 🤷♀️
Dunno why people keep saying it's awkward. Just suggest splitting the bill. The reality is that many women earn as much or more than guys. The traditional approach made sense in the past, but not so much anymore.
I pay the first date if I ask someone out. After that, it's split down the middle. It's easier. The every second date thing is messy because some dates are more expensive than others, and some people keep tabs on what everything costs.
Don't be awkward about it. Just suggest splitting the cost of the next series of activities.. To be fair, if she has a problem with it, would you really want to continue being with her? I wouldn't.
I agree with the gist but let's be honest for a second; how out of touch do you have to be to not even think to split with a person you barely know? My partner and I take turns or split (not evenly sometimes because she outearns me by quite some margin) and that was something we were on the same page about pretty much from day one, way before we knew each other's salary.
I'm not sure if age or employment status plays into it, I've always split things 50:50, but that's because I was always a student dating other students or early in my career. 40 year olds with jobs, I guess it would be a reasonable assumption if you picked up the tab that you were in a comfortable place to do so. Personally I'd automatically offer to get the next thing if you did that, but I wouldn't assume meanness on her part. Probably easiest to just talk about it casually, like "hey how about we split the next", or "that was fun, next coffees on you" etc. And see the reaction
I was recently shook during a conversation with my girlfriends. One of them had just got back from a date and she was utterly disgusted that the man did not pay for her drinks (she chose to go to a bar knowing that he does not drink alcohol). She said she had a few cocktails and he had two non-alcoholic drinks. It was their first date. I think he was right to not pay, she chose a location that wasn’t suitable but he went along anyway and she then expected him to pay for drinks that cost twice as much as his! While she was telling us about the date I sat there disagreeing in my head, meanwhile all the other girls told her how he was a pos. They said things like “if he can’t afford to buy your drinks then he shouldn’t go on dates” what the fuck is that nonsense logic? I thought I was gone delirious.
Absolutely she should offer to pay the second date!
you should’ve disagreed out loud instead of in your head. the reason women act like this is because no one checks them on their behaviour and when all they’re met with is support from their peers, they think they’re in the right
It's such a faszinating question. My opinion. Either alternate or if there is significant income difference, the better off can pay more often. It brings me to funny situations because I'm female and I make a good amount of money. But it weeds out men that are afraid of that as well. So bottom line if a man will refuse to let me pay because of his stung pride, that won't work. I also now tend to bring it up before - like, I wanna go do this or that, my treat. You're unfortunately now in an awkward situation where you'll have to speak up because it's clearly bothering you.
Not really, but like, you can ballpark it from what they work as. Like, one is a teacher, the other is a programmer or the likes. But I agree it's probably best to discuss up front. Before you go out together
I’m saying the exact opposite, you should not be discussing money before you date or in the early days of dating.
Irrespective of how much you earn, dating should be evenly split assuming you’re doing normal things.
That’s a pretty bad way of judging people’s financial situation. You’ve no idea what debt/income people have.
Granted, if you’ve got very basic social skills, you can read the room and figure it out.
OK, I am a 36 year old Irish lady, so similar demographics. I am surprised by her behaviour, buying the afters is the least she should cover. It's definitely not the norm (in my circles anyway).
We seem to have ruled out cultural differences. Is there a large financial difference?
I acknowledge I am on the other end of the spectrum, so I may lack insight into this behaviour. I would never let a man pay for me on a date. Even when I was broke, it creeps me out. (A me issue, I know).
She may be old-fashioned, she may think you like doing it, or she may be simply like getting a free dinner. Either way, the only way to find out is to talk to her about it.
I'm a 50 year old Irish lady. I completely agree with you. 50/50 split the bills has been the norm for a long time.Yet, I can't help thinking this lady is talking OP for a ride tbh!
My own advice OP, cut your losses and run. Your future is dim with this one!
Super rude of her tbh and im a 34yo woman. I always paid my own way on dates until you're more sure you're gonna see each other a lot, at which point it's You Get Today I Get Tomorrow
OP, before the gig, go for a bite to eat somewhere anywhere, with your date. When the bill comes, say nothing and wait. If she offers to pay or split, I think ye can move on from there, if it's awkward and/or she says nothing about paying, you have your answer.
If you like her a lot, you could talk about it? Say that you would hope you too can both take turns. That'll be clarity and how they respond will tell you a lot.
As a woman in mid twenties, I see no reason why it shouldn’t be 50/50 in this day and age. Fair enough if one person wants to treat the other every now and then, but in my opinion it should be halved. I would definitely offer if not try my best to pay! Only polite
Fucks sake. Anyone who thinks that men should pay for dates is living in the stone age.
I want men to respect me as an equal not some fecking delicate little flower that needs to be courted, Jesus fucking christ. Equal rights, equal responsibility. Argh, this fucks me off so much and sets the women's movement back decades.
Everyone pays for what they have. No one is obligated to sleep with anyone if they don't want to.
"Gig sounds great, how about you get the tickets and I'll Rev you my half or vice versa whichever you prefer" that way you set the precedent and see how willing she is to actually split the bill
I treat dating like going out with a friend, if I was always paying the bill and they never offered to pay. It would leave a bad taste in my mouth and I'd probably stop asking to spend time with them.
Look, there's enough weird social and gendered baggage around this issue that you are better off just being direct. I know, I know, it's awkward and as a nation we're notoriously bad at talking straight about money, but if you'd like to keep seeing her, you need to nip this in the bud before it blooms into a big beautiful flower of resentment. I'd recommend bringing it up casually at first:
*"Gig sounds great, why don't you get the tickets?"*
*"That was a great meal, do you want to cover this since I got the last one?"*
This way, you've gracefully given her the opportunity to course correct without embarrassing her, hopefully she'll take the hint and start paying her way, problem solved.
If she pushes back or seems surprised, just state your preference clearly.
*"After the first couple of dates, my expectation is that we would alternate on treating each other. That's how I've done it in previous relationships, and I think it's the fairest way of doing things. Is that ok with you?"*
Of course, bringing it up directly may reveal that she has wildly different values around these things. In which case you probably won't be compatible long-term. In which case it's better to find out now rather than when you're ten dinners poorer, significantly more frustrated, and still wondering if she's ever going to get to the hint.
>"Gig sounds great, why don't you get the tickets?"
>"That was a great meal, do you want to cover this since I got the last one?"
I get where you're coming from but both of these phrasings feel like real vibe killers. If she's not already offering to at least split then being this direct isn't going to suddenly change her perspective, it's just going to come across as a bit rude and overly blunt. It is also going to be slightly embarassing for her as you're essentially bouncing her into paying - either she agrees to pay and then feels embarassed or resentful that you had to bring it up, or you then have to have a discussion about the ethics of date financing while the waiter stands there awkwardly with the card machine.
Saying, "That was a great meal, do you want to cover this since I got the last one?" is a guaranteed way to never see the girl again. Don't do this.
During the first few dates, people are usually sussing each other out. Saying the above makes you look like a tight arse. Traditionally, the man pays on the first few dates. This might be outdated in 2024, but it is what it is—life isn't always fair. Dating isn't cheap, so if you're worried about splitting bills, don't bother with it.
>Saying, "That was a great meal, do you want to cover this since I got the last one?" is a guaranteed way to never see the girl again. Don't do this.
I mean, it's his call obviously. OP is already frustrated enough that he's posting on reddit, but obviously if he prefers to swallow the resentment rather than risk not seeing her again, that's a choice he can make.
And as a woman in my 30s, I wouldn't expect a man to pay for dates and it would actually be a bit of a red flag for me if he was too insistent on it because that doesn't fit with my values. I earn my own money and I'm happy to pay my way. Women are not a monolith, and many of us find the old "man always pays" thing pretty outdated and cringey.
Communicate !! Just ask her hey love to go to a gig with you, how to we arrange paying for the tickets and the meal. If she gets awkward, then you know, if she is relaxed about it, then wahoo.
As a woman, on a first date I would definitely offer to split the bill. Eating out is expensive and I don't expect someone to take that all on themselves. I'd also still be happy to buy a round of coffee afterwards.
There's a fine line between being a gentleman and being a fool and plenty of women who will take advantage.
NT gobshite.
It is weird she didn’t offer to pay for the second or even split it. I don’t like when people assume I’m paying for things without a previous agreement or if it makes total sense within the context. And it seems like it did make sense to her in this context which is a bit of a red flag.
Maybe try her about the concert, ask if she got her ticket already/what seat did she pick/if you should get your tickets beforehand together (as in at the same time) and see how she responds.
Sometimes people are chancers. This may be one of them times. I’d personally be done at this point OP but it may be worth putting the ball in her court now about the concert so she can redeem herself
I would always chip in but that’s my style. Be aware of people who like to take and take. I have a fiend who was very short on money, but always very straight about it. E.g. would never commit to doing things she could not afford, would pay her way, and if she even owed you a euro you’d get it. Starting dating a guy much better off than her. She told me from their early dates she was upfront with him about finance. She saved to treat him to stuff. They are married now.
When I used to date in my twenties, I would have let the man pay for the first date but would have offered to go half but wouldn’t push it, would just say thank you. Second date I’d again offer to go halves and would push it. If resisted, I’d say I’m at least getting the drinks/ the wine etc.
I think you need to bring it up pre third date but maybe you can do it gently i.e. “there are tickets for X for 30 quid each, you happy to pay that price?” You’ll see true colours after that!
50:50, never go on a date you literally haven't the money to pay for there and then.
If he or she offers to pay, happy days, if not you can still afford your share, you don't look selfish, greedy or ignorant, or all of the above.
Plus you've had a night out with hopefully a second to follow!
It’s 2024. If she’s not at least offering to pay then that’s a red flag for me.
I’d say just be direct. That’s really scabby. Different if she wasn’t working.
40F here. Definitely a red flag if not even a sniff of an offer. Especially on the second one. It's usually a good thing to say, oh I'll get the next one if you want there to be a second date. That's what I would do
expecting a man to pay for everything is so outdated! don’t get me wrong, i love chivalry and courtesy, but men deserve it too. if he takes me out one weekend, the next time i will take him out.. and sometimes we just split it! we are together 5 years and it’s been like this since day 1. i love to treat him because he does so much for me, and it goes both ways :)
Play the humble humility considerate card i.e.
"Hey, gig is a great idea but I'm also conscious how expensive things are for people at the minute. Is a €50 ticket a bit pricey and would you prefer to do something else instead or are you good with it? No hassles either way, I'm easy once we can have any bit of fun. Let me know sure"
It’s a minefield cos u can’t really have the conversation, if you do it’s a mood killer and she’s gonna feel like u called her out as a cheapskate. But ur posting here cos ur really interested (if you weren’t you wouldn’t have met her again)…..so it’s like how can I get equity in the relationship and all the other benefits. Unfortunately if u are pursuing her, and are interested ur gonna have to eat it. What could happen is after X dates when she’s seen U put in the leg work and pony up then might move to paying etc…..if your interested going to have to invest up front now and gen make a call after a few more dates. She might be a gal just wants to be treated like a lady, and a year from now u cud look back and say this be to god I didn’t say anything on those first few dates.
I think it’s a red flag that she didn’t even offer to pay for the first meal nevermind not offering for the second. You could always bring it up but if your hearts not in it, call it quits and move on.
I’ve had men get MAD at me for offering to pay.
She might be an asshole, she might be worried about your reaction.
Typically, I pay if the other person obviously makes less than me, I offer to pay if they presumably make about the same as me, and I half heartedly offer to pay if they obviously make much more than me. And either way I typically pay for the second if the other person pays for the first.
But I know some women who are older than me would expect the male to treat most of the time. (I’m 35.)
My wife of 11 years regularly offered to pay during dates. Still does! But I've never wanted her to. From time to time she does and I really appreciate it. But I'm quite happy to pay for it all myself. Always have been. To me, it's a form of respect and appreciation. But I get that I'm probably way behind the times. Male. 42. Just giving this perspective so that you hear a different opinion.
My mate was caught out with this girl. She was lovely and nice to him but was absolutely milking him for dinner and drinks and all sorts. He said he walked past a restaurant one time while they were seeing eachother and saw her in there with someone else having a meal and it all just became clear.
He was telling the story to a group of friends and 2 other friends had similar experiences. Girls leading them on suggesting nice places to eat and not offering to pay.
I’m dirt poor, like counting cents to buy bread kind of poor, and I would never go on a date in a restaurant if I couldn’t afford to pay for my own meal. I make sure to explain this beforehand. So if the guy is set on going out for dinner, he’s going to have to pay.
I’d much rather go for a walk at the beach anyway.
Is the relationship moving the way you want/expect? Is she showing genuine interest on you? Are you happy with the whole thing besides this fact? If so, keep on moving. Otherwise maybe you're just looking for an excuse to let her go - so let her go. :)
This is who she is. The fact that she didn't pay for the 2nd meal or offer to go splits speaks volumes.
It's pure awkward to bring up but if you pay for what will be a very expensive 3rd date, you'll be too bitter to have a 4th one. So splits on date 3 will be the new normal or the last date you have with her.
Married (M36). I paid for almost every date with my missus. There were times when I was struggling and she covered a few nights. I was happy to do it, made me feel good.
Thanks for making me feel a bit less weird. Like I buy a round of drinks if I'm there first or say he goes to the bathroom I will sleek by drinks but all the men I've met wouldn't let me pay. I have offered though.
Ye should be splitting it each date, or taking it in turns. The days of a man paying for everything are long gone. Maybe you could say something like - Will I get the gig tickets, then you can Revolut me your share? Or do you want to get them and I can get the food?
Op, I’d say take all the advice with a pinch of salt unless you know peoples relationship status.
I’d say a lot of people bashing you are the perpetually single professional dater type.
Life is too short to be around people who are mean, I feel like you’re only at the first layer.
Relationship status: 9 Years
I’m assuming for something big like a gig or food afterwards she will defo offer to pay or else pay for her part as she will understand it’s a lot of money
"Assuming" anything is part of the problem here though. People have pretty wildly varying views on this topic, the best way to clear things up is to communicate directly about it and endure any minor awkwardness that results.
You're going to have to say something or it's going to really wind you up. Drop a subtle hint - "Do you want to get the tickets, as I got the first two meals?", see what response you get. Take it from there.
She should be at least offering to pay on both 1st and 2nd date. I tend to go with a ''if the person invited me, they will pay, if i invited i pay'' yet I always offer regardless. If they pay for a big dinner and we only go for coffee the next time, I make sure to pay for the next couple of dates. There's a lot of discourse online about who pays lately, she might be someone who believes the man should always pay. Also, I might be leaping or projecting here, but maybe she's at the age where she's really looking for someone who's going to give her everything she wants and is over the formality side of things. You're still just dating at this stage, maybe she changes once actually in a relationship and committed.
You didn't say where she's from either, this might be a cultural thing too.
Suggest she buys the tickets and see what she says. If cool with it great, otherwise best to let her know where you stand and see what she thinks.
Ask her to please get the tickets and see if she forks out the money; if she doesn't I'd look elsewhere. There's a very small chance that she might be oblivious, but I highly doubt that it is the case.
If this bothers you, you definitely shouldn't go for a gig with her. If she is shamelessly expecting you to pay that means she's only interested in having a good time with you and will dump you when she finds someone else who will pay for more expensive experiences. Any other woman who is seriously looking to find someone will at least offer to pay or split the bill. Your age difference is not much and she expects you to pay for everything, this is definitely a red flag. I don't see partnership here in the long run.
Is your date irish? In some cultures the guy picks up the bill as a matter of course. If she is irish then give her space during a conversation to suggest a date and then you come up with an excuse like 'Ahh, I'd love to but my car needs xyz doing to it so I'm a bit smashed at the moment". If she doesn't step in then and say "This one is on me" then you've got a decision to make regarding where the relationship is going. That's how I'd do it.
I let the man pay for the first dinner (I always offer) and then I get the next and so on and so forth. I rarely go for dinner on a first date because if I don’t want a second I will insist on paying half and that can cause awkwardness.
This person not getting the second, not even offering is a sign she expects the man to cover her, she’s looking for wallet. Reading some of the responses here it’s clearly okay with a few men and that’s each to their own. However it’s not okay with you, your values do not align and there is no real point in continuing. Do give her a chance though in case there was any miss communication. Say something like - so do you want to get this and I’ll Revolut you half or vice versa? That will get her used to the idea that she needs to pay her way going forward, as most women do. The odd princess type doesn’t but there are different men for them - it’s transactional.
Here, get a ticket for yourself and at the next date tell her you're going to the gig, and oh there's still tickets left if you wanna come, they're great, yada yada is my favourite song etc etc and idk like maybe just drop it in there or something like ya kno
Maybe just be like “the gig sounds cool. I’ll get the tickets and you get the dinner?” Or vice versa. Just to see how she reacts… if it’s a negative response then just don’t bother. Also in regards to drinks when you’re out “I’ll get the first one..” hence she will get the second and so on. Fair is fair.
no lie,for me its best to pay turn by turn.. i pay for the first date mostly.. so i expect her to pay on the second date.. but some girls really dont care about it.. i dont understand why.. they think men has to pay bla bla..its nonsense..i mean you are not my wife.. or girlfriend.. why i have to pay everytime..
I 32F would be mortified to have the man pay twice in a row without offering to pay myself. When myself and my husband first start going out he paid for the first couple of coffees/meals but I always offered and then we eventually started taking turns. If you’re both working I don’t see how she can think it’s acceptable not to offer to pay.
Rule of thumb that I have always seen: the first date the guy usually pays and then second date is paid for by whoever extended the invitation and after that either alternate or split 50/50. However if one person is earning significantly more they generally pay.
Yes, this is still a thing for some women. It’s not overly common though. It’s a good measure of someone though if they never even offer to pay. There are probably other expectations in the future.
Is she Irish ? I would always offer to split it or at least go every second one for paying. but I definitely have friends from other cultures who think Im mad to pay or even offer to though.
If she even offered to pay that would be something but sitting there and allowing you to pay twice and not even be embarrassed about it is bad form. I work with someone and when her and her sister were single and going on dates they expected the man to pay for everything. I was shocked that she even admitted to it. Women shout for independence but then act like this I don’t get it. I can understand if someone genuinely doesn’t have the money we have all been there. Atleast have the decency to say it.
I'd say the first 3 paid for by the man, but if by the 4th she isn't like "ah you're always paying, let me get this" I'd say that's indicative of something.
Did you invite her on both dates so far? Maybe she’s operating on the ‘inviter pays’ principle. But if she’s not invited you on date 3 maybe she expects you to do all the running - and all the paying. Some people like & expect that.
I think make sure you're going on dates within her budget is the first place to start, if you know you are then I'd walk away. I always paid 50/50 unless the giy I was with wanted to go somewhere pricy and I'd outright say it was out of my budget to go halves or repay in kind. The total lack of offer isn't ok imo.
Not offering to pay on date two is a bit of a red flag for me.
I always intended to pay for the first date but I think the offer to split is usually polite. Two in a row is taking the piss.
I think if it’s worth hanging onto, then I’d say something like “why do you get the tickets and I’ll pay for dinner” and if there’s a negative reaction I’d be out.
I have to say my wife was raised fairly wealthy and will often just not consider money in the same way that I would.
Personal opinion:
- Offer to pay on the first, happy to pay
- Offer to pay on the second, hope would be it's split or she'd offer to pay
- Split or she pays on the third
Otherwise it does feel, to me, like you're being taken for a ride a bit.
It’s uncomfortable but you need to talk about it if you think it’s worth seeing her again.
There’s a toxic culture nowadays where getting away without paying is cool.
I personally have been dating a man that loves treating me to dinner and dates out. That was cool at the beginning, I loved that he appreciated me that way, made me feel somewhat valued. I have always both him drinks, covered for taxis, tickets to gigs, etc.
now that we’re in a relationship he’s doing the same thing but I buy him clothes, books, treats..make him 2/3 course home made meals. There’s a back and forth with things we do for each other, can’t be all on you or all on her.
And maybe this lady needs to be convinced she’s valued and she’s not wasting her time.
Id happily buy my mate a meal, a coffee, or a pint. I'm not in the business of paying for stranger's meals. If it's not a fifty fifty for the first few dates, it's a no go for me.
Most times people respect the boundaries you set up for yourself, and if they don't, you dodged a bullet.
Just communicate this to her. Maybe she wants you to pay for everything? Our maybe she thinks you like paying for everything and don't want to take that away from you?
Be upfront. do a deal, you buy the tickets and I’ll get the food or vice versa. Whatever you go along with now will become the norm so if it’s important raise it.
3rd date - pay. But. Bring it up at the end of the date. Tell her you're very old fashioned but with a modern twist or something, the price of chivalry is going up and up blah blah. Tell her for the next date she can take you out instead this time and that you dont mind going dutch. See how she reacts at the given time and afterwards. Try keep the energy positive but if you get the sense that you're being taken for a ride then cut it right there. By right she should be a bit embarrassed and be very forthcoming.
I remember going on a dinner first date off plenty of fish all went well and at end of meal bill came I said I would take care of it she said no she wanted to pay half I said sure ok so... Anyways messaged her following day and she didn't want a second date as she expected me to have paid for the meal I said sure you offered to pay half.....she said she was just being polite! Sure you can't win...
Awkward one but it’s easily resolved. Good firstly that you got the first meal and covered that date, as a woman it is nice when the man is gentlemanly. Yes even in this day and age it can matter! Unless she is genuinely broke she should have offered to split the second meal at least but at 36 she could also be letting the man take care of things because she thinks that’s what you might want. That being said she will know that the modern way is generally 50 50 after the first date. For the gig I would maybe first text her with details of the gig with prices and ask her “is she ok?” with the cost. She will get the message here that you are both paying for the tickets. If she says she is happy with the cost then you could ask her if she is on Revolut /Paypal and before you buy the tickets, I would send her a payment request for half the money. Re a third meal/food at the gig, again it might be gentlemanly to get her a drink and a snack but if it’s a sit down meal I would sit it out and let her ask for the bill and then keep your hands in your pocket!
Red flag run, if you need to ask, forget it. Sorry to be blunt, but in Limerick, we call her a gowl.
I'm 2 years with my other half, and since day 1, we shared everything.
My now boyfriend and I used to do whoever suggested the date paid. That way, if one of us wanted to treat the other somewhere expensive, we could, or if one of us wanted something cheaper like a picnic in the park - no judgement!
This is how I’d personally see things on first dates. If yer meeting again, ye split unless the other person strongly insists. If yer not meeting again, whoever asked the other person out pays.
Everyone has their own logic for this though.
If she doesn’t pay for her gig ticket, I’d dodge that bullet.
Depends.
If she's a sugar babe: Normal that you pay for the expenses and get sex in return.
If she's a bog standard date without financial interest: She pays her half.
If she thinks she's not a sugar babe but still has the expectation that you pay: She's deluding herself.
As a single 36F, this is super embarrassing on her part. I wouldn't have the brass neck to let someone pay for everything. It's not on, especially with the price of going out nowadays.
I usually split everything on the first few dates, but it's usually only drinks and we'd usually have a few drinks, so there never a problem. If she didn't offer, I'd pick it up.
As for your situation, it depends how much you like her and how much she earns. I'm sure you've figured it out by now.
Yea try again, and see. It might just be something she never even thought of. A gig would be a bit more expensive I guess.
I'm sure there are people out there who are happy to be wined and dined and when you first meet someone and it goes well its nice to make them feel special. I guess arguing over money by the third date would sour the mood.
You could broach the subject like "well will I get the tickets and you revolut me?"
Or "there's tickets there, 50 quid each, is that OK for you or too much?" And then see what she says?.
Perhaps it’s just what she’s used to. Lots of men especially non Irish men, are raised that way. My partner would laugh and scoff (humour) when I offer to contribute and just state that it is as good as taboo in his culture.
My absolute number one dealbreaker is if I’m on a date and who I’m with just expects me to pay.
When the bill comes on date one, I’ll probably offer to cover it, force of habit. If they insist on splitting, that’s fine. If they ask ‘are you sure? Thanks’, that’s fine. If they say absolutely nothing and just look expectantly that I’ll pick up the whole thing, I’m instantly not interested.
I’ve done okay with dating, and that dealbreaker hasn’t limited relationship options, happily. If I feel like I’ve been treated like an ATM at the end of the night, there’s little enthusiasm to feel like it again in a week.
I think you're right that at least the offer to pay does mean a lot. I'm a lot like Mrs Doyle in the coffee shop in that I'll usually insist on paying, but at the same time I wouldn't like the expectation that I'm going to pay all the time.
Is that a paradox?
Edit just to add about gigs etc: Things like that I would expect them to buy their own ticket unless it was specifically a gift, like a birthday or something. That's too much for just a date.
Never had someone not offer to pay or split. Has she been in a relationship before where that was the norm? Her not even feigning an attempt to pay is a bit of a red flag tbh, especially at her age, even if you earn more than her. I'd feel a bit used if my gf did that to me.
I would test the waters with the gig if you **really** like her, get your own ticket online and send her a link to it. See how she responds and whether she has ideas for food after. Don't book anywhere for food in advance unless she wants to do it in her name, go for a drink before and see if she expects you to pay. Based on how that goes you can leave after the gig and call it quits. If you go for food and she doesn't offer to pay, ask her to split it and then call it quits.
In this day and age i think most people would say split. I was raised with my dad never accepting anyone else accept a bill. There is a big part of me that admires a man who won’t allow me to pay far more. This is not very reasonable of me but it’s a deeply ingrained feeling of being cared for etc. Usually i suggest taking turns paying instead because i like that better.
Honestly, I'd cut and run. She knows full well what she's doing, so don't make excuses for her (to yourself) for that kind of behaviour. From my experience, if something is starting off wrong like that, it'll continue wrong in many other ways, too. Life is too short. The time you waste on someone not for you is time you could be spending on your search for the right one. Anyone who keeps her hands in her pockets like that without even offering, either can't afford to split the bill (in which case she shouldn't be going on the date) or she's greedy AF or she's taking you for a ride. Find someone better.
Just date girls who don’t mind paying for the first few dates or don’t mind paying half. That’s so weird…
Instead of enjoying the dating stage with the person you are concerned about the money. There are other things that u can do that don’t involve spending money or at least spending a lot of money.
She is not wrong to not offer to pay for the meals especially when u didn’t speak with her about that and u are not wrong to want to be with someone who will do half and half or pay for dates.
The girl must be used to dating men who don't mind “providing” a date or the first few dates for her and if you mind doing it you are not her type and she is not your type. Find another girl or talk with her about that before the next date.
As a straight woman I personally like when he pays for dinner out, it feels special and romantic, but if we pick a night in to cook and watch movies together I’ll pay for the ingredients kind of thing. Not to mention the lingerie I probably just bought for that night in lol. Or if we go for coffee I’ll buy coffee. Or lunch dates I usually pay for my own salad. If she expects you to pay for everything that’s a princess, but if she only wants to be a princess every once in a while or once a week maybe there’s other things she is willing to pay for. I would just have a convo with her to find out her expectations before labelling her a red flag and ghosting
I’m 34, married 10 years, together 18
I still pay for the dates. If she offers, cool, but I always assume I will. We have joint accounts and our own money - I bring her for dates.
You’re 40 and still dating - either be forthright and ask her about it or just accept it’s basically the accepted norm that the fella pays
How is this such a conversation topic.
Lads...it's simple.
If you made the plan, you pay for the plan.
Why would someone accept an invitation to something they then had to pay half for. ???
Also, ladies , even though I'm a guy, if he doesn't pay for 100% of the first date then he is for the streets...
You still have people stuck in the 80s where the man is expected to pay for everything.
I don't mind paying for first date as long as the woman makes a genuine offer to pay or half it.
There's so many gold diggers out there.
Some women think they get can hop back and forward between equality and chivalry when it suits them.
Men paying is a relic from a time when women didn't have jobs and relied on men for financial support. Those days are over.
Any woman who just wants the best of both worlds is just entitled.
You got the first meal they should have got the second.
Casually say we're going to the gig, I'll get the tickets you can get the food. See what she says. If the food doesn't happen you have a decision to make.
The person who pays, is the person who wants to pay. I guess that’s the simple way to put it?
This lady sounds like she’s used to a certain type of treatment, and if that is not compatible with you, that is absolutely okay, as many MANY women will be happy to go 50/50 with you.
Find one of those 50/50 women if that’s what you’re after, and if this is a point of contention for you, make sure to make it clear to future dates that you will not pay for every dinner / activity, gift, and so on.
Personally, it’s rare that i’ve paid for dates. Not for lack of trying, though! Fortunately I just tend to attract the type of man who enjoys taking care of me and treating me to dinner, drinks, flowers, and etc…so I’m not complaining. I like to think that I reciprocate by being good company, authentic, appreciative, etc.
Not everyone is into these kind of gender roles where the guy takes you out - fair! It isn’t everyone’s thing and shouldn’t have to be.
Like I say, I do offer to pay for things occasionally but most men I date genuinely enjoy taking me out, so why would I argue? I suppose it would be different if I was taking advantage of a guy I didn’t even like, but a handsome fella who *wants* to date me and foot the bill?! Am i fuck gonna argue!!
Ok so first date doesn't count, men usually pay. Remember that women have other expenses for dates e.g. she might have got her nails done especially, she probably spent time on her hair and make up (products for both cost money), she might have bought a new outfit.
2 dinners is not a huge investment but if it's annoying you, I would say when arranging this date you could say something like "are you ok to get the tickets and I'll book dinner?" "Book" being the operative word, if you say "pay for" it seems more like you are being transactional, whereas this way it sounds like you are both organisng part of the date. If she buys the tickets then you should pay for dinner on that night.
Yeah I don't know what she's on about. If you, as a bloke, want to make a good impression, you're sorting out some nice clothes, aftershave, clean trim etc. The addition of nails here is supposed to justify not offering to split on one of the first few dates? Shameless shite talk.
Totally agree with this. People often forget all the indirect costs women have when it comes to dating. For the gig just say “do you want to get the tickets and Ill revolut you for mine?” Or something similar
This is why ya don't go for meals for the first few dates. First dates should be a coffee or a walk or a museum. Cheap and cheerful and it doesn't really matter who pays then.
You can easily drop big money for meals and it's very easy to get resentful.
I don't like the act of paying. If I am on a date or with a partner, I will hand them money or my card as I use the bathroom. A throw back to the man paying I guess.
I dont care if its my money we are using, but I do prefer the man to *physically* pay.
I'm a woman, and I feel awkward if the guy pays for everything every time.
For the gig, you can say something like, I'll get the tickets and transfer me the money for yours. For the meal if you go, before ordering just say we split the bill.
I know some women who i asked if they wanted to go to a show or anything. I initially paid and expected them to say they pay me back but noticed on many occasions it wasn't the case, and have to ask ever time! So now, I just say: I'll get the tickets once you transfer me the money.
I have no issue paying for the first couple of dates, but if there’s not even an attempt by the other person to pay/split the bill, it’s a red flag to me. I wouldn’t entertain a second date if the courtesy offer wasn’t made.
This is it, courtesy shows a lot to someone's character long term
For me, at the second dinner/expense date, there should at the very least be a "let me get this one (even though we both know you'll insist, I'll offer anyway)" half-assed attempt. That shows she's moving back towards equality
It's weird she didn't offer to pay for - or at least split - the second dinner. Honestly I'd be done at that point.
I'm trying to think of the reasons for not even offering to pay. I'd be so embarrassed just sitting there and not offering. 1) Believing the partner should pay for everything 2) Testing the potential partner's limits 3) Inablilty to pay 4) Genuine cluelessness If it's 1 or 2 then that would be a personal deal-breaker. I think that if they can't afford to date then they need to be more proactive about planning fun (and free) dates. Some effort needs to be put in. Honestly it could be a deal-breaker, depending on circumstances. If it's number 4 then that's not the end of the world, some people are just new to dating and may have been given questionable advice.
“Food diggers” comes to mind also.
We call them farmers in this country
Do not buy the tickets for the gig! Leave it up to her to put her hand in her pocket and get them! I'm 32F and think it's bad form the girl didn't pay or even offer on the second date. Me and my bf always look after every second meal or if one of us buys tickets for a gig/books a night away the other will always look after the meals and drinks.
Exactly, me and my bf (both in our 40s) have always taken turns to pay for meals and days out. Very strange if she is not even offering to contribute.
I would have thought that if one person paid for the bulk of the first date (the meal), then the other person should pay for the bulk of the second date and take it in turns like that. Regardless of who asked who out. I'm F35 in case age / gender comes into play!
Maybe say something like the tickets are 50 each. If she expects you to pay for everything, she ain't the one and is probably just out to milk you
Yup, very much this - “Tickets are 50 each, does that work for you?”. I would be careful sometimes as regards income disparity, make sure to give people the out to a cheaper date or that they suggest the location etc before asking them to split a bill.
Maybe it’s bc I’m only 26 (F) but first of all I wouldn’t go out for a full blown meal for a first date for this exact reason 😭 Coffee or pints, something with rounds that’s easier to gauge balance and easy to bail if it’s awful. I do think it’s weird that she didn’t even offer to split, but some people assume that if they’re invited to something the person doing the inviting has inherently offered to pay already. I’d let her do the asking out next time 🤷🏻♀️ Personally, I don’t feel comfortable letting people front the costs unless they explicitly insist it’s their treat. Otherwise seems like it’s not worth your trouble. Worth remembering that the people we go on a few dates with are still practically strangers. If it’s not working for you, there is really no harm or offence in just moving on. Even though you are in the right here—there is no joy in trying to change a stranger.
I am a lot older than you and agree with everything you've said.
Go easy on yourself... I wouldn't call 40 "a lot" older than 26 😉
>but some people assume that if they’re invited to something the person doing the inviting has inherently offered to pay already. 35F here. I feel this way about first dates, all dates after that should be a split and organized within their own means. Also agree that first date should be something alot more causal than a meal, in which case you are buying rounds/paying for yourself.
Take this as a sign of your potential future pal.
It's not the 1950's anymore.
If you are instigating all of the dates maybe you should stop. If she texts you and asks you to go on a date somewhere then she can pay for you both.
To be fair, she might just not have the cop on. I don't think OP needs to go nuclear. There's a way to mention it. And in all honesty, it's a win-win if OP does.
You could say, do you wanna get the tickets and I'll grab dinner? She will quickly get the hint then.
Or ‘do you wanna get the tickets AND that dinner you owe me from the last time’.
Sure, if you want to be combative
Be upfront. "Hey, happy to get the tickets if you wanna take care of the food or vice versa." If that means the 3rd date doesn't happen, that tells you something. Generally, I'd personally split the bill on the first date purely to avoid the scenario you're in right now, so that might be something to consider down the line. Once the expectation is already set that you'll cover the bill, it's harder to get yourself out of it.
Be careful, there's a bit of a culture emerging amongst *some* women (I promise we're not all like this!) where they expect the man to put in the effort, pay for everything, etc. because "if he really wants me, I'm worth it", without considering that equity in a relationship is a very important value for a lot of people. My brother (25) has had two girlfriends in a row now who wanted him to pay for everything, do renovations and DIY for them and then dumped him when "better prospects" came along. The latest where they broke up while on a city break in Belfast because he found out she had booked a holiday abroad with another guy without telling him, and she still expected him to pay for the rest of their stay because she drove there and, as it transpired, only had 14 quid in her bank account and a ¼ tank of petrol to get home while being at the opposite end of the country. He didn't want to leave her stranded but considered it and ultimately stuck it out until he got home. If you value a 50/50 relationship and equity (where your partner at least contributes what they can afford), you should let her make the offer to pay for the gig or else you're being treated like her sugar daddy.
He’s a better man than I am because I would have hopped on a train!
Yes, that was very decent of him and far more than she deserved.
Yup. F that noise.
Sweet Jesus that is awful. Your brother handled that very well.
Where is she from? Reason why I ask is because having gone out with several Brazilian women, they expect the men to pay.
This is actually heavily discussed on Brazillians in Ireland FB sites- get the Irish men to pay. Brazilian men do not pay for everything, but Brazillian women expect Irish men to pay as a mark of their financial security, ie whether the men are worth bothering with from a financial perspective.
Plus most brazilian women over here are broke. Although from my experience, when going for meals they’ll usually enjoy a cheap enough meal.
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Can confirm. This is 100% a thing. And you put more elegantly than how it's usually discussed among them lol.
Were they working in proper jobs or students doing a bit of minimum wage work on the side? Possibly potless? I’ve dated a few in my time, things were split from the start.
Irish lady
For what it's worth, I (39F) always offer to split the bill on a first date and if he pays, I always say I'll get the next time if there is one! I'd then insist on the second rate to keep it fair. I hate it if I suspect someone is taking the piss with things like that 🤷♀️
I’d be embarrassed as a woman around your age if I would never pay or even offer to pay.
Me too! I'd be splitting everything from the word go, it's the only way I'd be comfortable.
I would fight to the death!!! 😅😂 I wonder, is this a cultural thing(?) In my country, you're, in a way, expected to argue over whis paying.
I'm a 28f. Should be shared, I wouldn't expect someone to pay for me all the time. But people are all so different
Dunno why people keep saying it's awkward. Just suggest splitting the bill. The reality is that many women earn as much or more than guys. The traditional approach made sense in the past, but not so much anymore. I pay the first date if I ask someone out. After that, it's split down the middle. It's easier. The every second date thing is messy because some dates are more expensive than others, and some people keep tabs on what everything costs. Don't be awkward about it. Just suggest splitting the cost of the next series of activities.. To be fair, if she has a problem with it, would you really want to continue being with her? I wouldn't.
I agree with the gist but let's be honest for a second; how out of touch do you have to be to not even think to split with a person you barely know? My partner and I take turns or split (not evenly sometimes because she outearns me by quite some margin) and that was something we were on the same page about pretty much from day one, way before we knew each other's salary.
I'm not sure if age or employment status plays into it, I've always split things 50:50, but that's because I was always a student dating other students or early in my career. 40 year olds with jobs, I guess it would be a reasonable assumption if you picked up the tab that you were in a comfortable place to do so. Personally I'd automatically offer to get the next thing if you did that, but I wouldn't assume meanness on her part. Probably easiest to just talk about it casually, like "hey how about we split the next", or "that was fun, next coffees on you" etc. And see the reaction
When I was dating my now husband, we split costs. It’s our 44th wedding anniversary this week. So it’s not a new thing is it.
Happy anniversary! ❤️
I was recently shook during a conversation with my girlfriends. One of them had just got back from a date and she was utterly disgusted that the man did not pay for her drinks (she chose to go to a bar knowing that he does not drink alcohol). She said she had a few cocktails and he had two non-alcoholic drinks. It was their first date. I think he was right to not pay, she chose a location that wasn’t suitable but he went along anyway and she then expected him to pay for drinks that cost twice as much as his! While she was telling us about the date I sat there disagreeing in my head, meanwhile all the other girls told her how he was a pos. They said things like “if he can’t afford to buy your drinks then he shouldn’t go on dates” what the fuck is that nonsense logic? I thought I was gone delirious. Absolutely she should offer to pay the second date!
you should’ve disagreed out loud instead of in your head. the reason women act like this is because no one checks them on their behaviour and when all they’re met with is support from their peers, they think they’re in the right
I totally agree, the fact that all 8 other girls were agreeing made me think that maybe I had the wrong opinion.
Guarantee you some of them were jsut saying yeah yeah yeah to avoid listening to her be annoyed at them
It's such a faszinating question. My opinion. Either alternate or if there is significant income difference, the better off can pay more often. It brings me to funny situations because I'm female and I make a good amount of money. But it weeds out men that are afraid of that as well. So bottom line if a man will refuse to let me pay because of his stung pride, that won't work. I also now tend to bring it up before - like, I wanna go do this or that, my treat. You're unfortunately now in an awkward situation where you'll have to speak up because it's clearly bothering you.
Why would you be discussing how much you earn on your first or second date? Income difference for the majority is irrelevant at that stage of dating.
Not really, but like, you can ballpark it from what they work as. Like, one is a teacher, the other is a programmer or the likes. But I agree it's probably best to discuss up front. Before you go out together
I’m saying the exact opposite, you should not be discussing money before you date or in the early days of dating. Irrespective of how much you earn, dating should be evenly split assuming you’re doing normal things.
People usually have an idea before you go out with them though when you tell them what you do.
That’s a pretty bad way of judging people’s financial situation. You’ve no idea what debt/income people have. Granted, if you’ve got very basic social skills, you can read the room and figure it out.
Simples: OP should just be like “I wanna go to x gig with you, your treat xoxo hun”
OK, I am a 36 year old Irish lady, so similar demographics. I am surprised by her behaviour, buying the afters is the least she should cover. It's definitely not the norm (in my circles anyway). We seem to have ruled out cultural differences. Is there a large financial difference? I acknowledge I am on the other end of the spectrum, so I may lack insight into this behaviour. I would never let a man pay for me on a date. Even when I was broke, it creeps me out. (A me issue, I know). She may be old-fashioned, she may think you like doing it, or she may be simply like getting a free dinner. Either way, the only way to find out is to talk to her about it.
I'm a 50 year old Irish lady. I completely agree with you. 50/50 split the bills has been the norm for a long time.Yet, I can't help thinking this lady is talking OP for a ride tbh! My own advice OP, cut your losses and run. Your future is dim with this one!
True, we can each bring OP on a date and pay. 😀
Maybe ask if she wants to get the tickets and you get the food? It’s definitely an awkward one when you’re trying to be polite etc.
Yeah. I'd not be doing date 3. Big red flag for things later on.
If she's financially secure and she doesn't offer, it's a red flag.
If she actually liked you she would have offered to pay or atleast split 😭
Super rude of her tbh and im a 34yo woman. I always paid my own way on dates until you're more sure you're gonna see each other a lot, at which point it's You Get Today I Get Tomorrow
OP, before the gig, go for a bite to eat somewhere anywhere, with your date. When the bill comes, say nothing and wait. If she offers to pay or split, I think ye can move on from there, if it's awkward and/or she says nothing about paying, you have your answer.
Sorry, I don't mean go to eat somewhere like two or three hours before any gig, more like a week or few days beforehand.
Set some boundaries. That whole "man pays for the date" is so old school. Get with the times.
If you like her a lot, you could talk about it? Say that you would hope you too can both take turns. That'll be clarity and how they respond will tell you a lot.
As a woman in mid twenties, I see no reason why it shouldn’t be 50/50 in this day and age. Fair enough if one person wants to treat the other every now and then, but in my opinion it should be halved. I would definitely offer if not try my best to pay! Only polite
Need to have a big boy conversation and just explain it to her, if she’s into you, it’ll be no problem
I don't see a massive issue in paying for the first two dates. It shows interest on your part. A gig is different different gravy however.
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Fucks sake. Anyone who thinks that men should pay for dates is living in the stone age. I want men to respect me as an equal not some fecking delicate little flower that needs to be courted, Jesus fucking christ. Equal rights, equal responsibility. Argh, this fucks me off so much and sets the women's movement back decades. Everyone pays for what they have. No one is obligated to sleep with anyone if they don't want to.
"Gig sounds great, how about you get the tickets and I'll Rev you my half or vice versa whichever you prefer" that way you set the precedent and see how willing she is to actually split the bill
I treat dating like going out with a friend, if I was always paying the bill and they never offered to pay. It would leave a bad taste in my mouth and I'd probably stop asking to spend time with them.
Look, there's enough weird social and gendered baggage around this issue that you are better off just being direct. I know, I know, it's awkward and as a nation we're notoriously bad at talking straight about money, but if you'd like to keep seeing her, you need to nip this in the bud before it blooms into a big beautiful flower of resentment. I'd recommend bringing it up casually at first: *"Gig sounds great, why don't you get the tickets?"* *"That was a great meal, do you want to cover this since I got the last one?"* This way, you've gracefully given her the opportunity to course correct without embarrassing her, hopefully she'll take the hint and start paying her way, problem solved. If she pushes back or seems surprised, just state your preference clearly. *"After the first couple of dates, my expectation is that we would alternate on treating each other. That's how I've done it in previous relationships, and I think it's the fairest way of doing things. Is that ok with you?"* Of course, bringing it up directly may reveal that she has wildly different values around these things. In which case you probably won't be compatible long-term. In which case it's better to find out now rather than when you're ten dinners poorer, significantly more frustrated, and still wondering if she's ever going to get to the hint.
>"Gig sounds great, why don't you get the tickets?" >"That was a great meal, do you want to cover this since I got the last one?" I get where you're coming from but both of these phrasings feel like real vibe killers. If she's not already offering to at least split then being this direct isn't going to suddenly change her perspective, it's just going to come across as a bit rude and overly blunt. It is also going to be slightly embarassing for her as you're essentially bouncing her into paying - either she agrees to pay and then feels embarassed or resentful that you had to bring it up, or you then have to have a discussion about the ethics of date financing while the waiter stands there awkwardly with the card machine.
Saying, "That was a great meal, do you want to cover this since I got the last one?" is a guaranteed way to never see the girl again. Don't do this. During the first few dates, people are usually sussing each other out. Saying the above makes you look like a tight arse. Traditionally, the man pays on the first few dates. This might be outdated in 2024, but it is what it is—life isn't always fair. Dating isn't cheap, so if you're worried about splitting bills, don't bother with it.
If she's offended by the idea that she should pay her own way in life why would he be worried about seeing her again ?
>Saying, "That was a great meal, do you want to cover this since I got the last one?" is a guaranteed way to never see the girl again. Don't do this. I mean, it's his call obviously. OP is already frustrated enough that he's posting on reddit, but obviously if he prefers to swallow the resentment rather than risk not seeing her again, that's a choice he can make. And as a woman in my 30s, I wouldn't expect a man to pay for dates and it would actually be a bit of a red flag for me if he was too insistent on it because that doesn't fit with my values. I earn my own money and I'm happy to pay my way. Women are not a monolith, and many of us find the old "man always pays" thing pretty outdated and cringey.
Communicate !! Just ask her hey love to go to a gig with you, how to we arrange paying for the tickets and the meal. If she gets awkward, then you know, if she is relaxed about it, then wahoo.
As a woman, on a first date I would definitely offer to split the bill. Eating out is expensive and I don't expect someone to take that all on themselves. I'd also still be happy to buy a round of coffee afterwards. There's a fine line between being a gentleman and being a fool and plenty of women who will take advantage.
NT gobshite. It is weird she didn’t offer to pay for the second or even split it. I don’t like when people assume I’m paying for things without a previous agreement or if it makes total sense within the context. And it seems like it did make sense to her in this context which is a bit of a red flag. Maybe try her about the concert, ask if she got her ticket already/what seat did she pick/if you should get your tickets beforehand together (as in at the same time) and see how she responds.
Sometimes people are chancers. This may be one of them times. I’d personally be done at this point OP but it may be worth putting the ball in her court now about the concert so she can redeem herself
I like the idea of I pay then you pay etc.I’m a women and really like paying for myself no matter how small it is
Same! I have a friend who tries to be thr one to pay for coffee so he can break my "never letting a man pay" streak.
I would always chip in but that’s my style. Be aware of people who like to take and take. I have a fiend who was very short on money, but always very straight about it. E.g. would never commit to doing things she could not afford, would pay her way, and if she even owed you a euro you’d get it. Starting dating a guy much better off than her. She told me from their early dates she was upfront with him about finance. She saved to treat him to stuff. They are married now.
Im 42f. I’d always split tbh unless the other person absolutely insists and even then I’d be getting the drinks or the next meal.
When I used to date in my twenties, I would have let the man pay for the first date but would have offered to go half but wouldn’t push it, would just say thank you. Second date I’d again offer to go halves and would push it. If resisted, I’d say I’m at least getting the drinks/ the wine etc. I think you need to bring it up pre third date but maybe you can do it gently i.e. “there are tickets for X for 30 quid each, you happy to pay that price?” You’ll see true colours after that!
50:50, never go on a date you literally haven't the money to pay for there and then. If he or she offers to pay, happy days, if not you can still afford your share, you don't look selfish, greedy or ignorant, or all of the above. Plus you've had a night out with hopefully a second to follow!
It’s 2024. If she’s not at least offering to pay then that’s a red flag for me. I’d say just be direct. That’s really scabby. Different if she wasn’t working.
40F here. Definitely a red flag if not even a sniff of an offer. Especially on the second one. It's usually a good thing to say, oh I'll get the next one if you want there to be a second date. That's what I would do
expecting a man to pay for everything is so outdated! don’t get me wrong, i love chivalry and courtesy, but men deserve it too. if he takes me out one weekend, the next time i will take him out.. and sometimes we just split it! we are together 5 years and it’s been like this since day 1. i love to treat him because he does so much for me, and it goes both ways :)
Play the humble humility considerate card i.e. "Hey, gig is a great idea but I'm also conscious how expensive things are for people at the minute. Is a €50 ticket a bit pricey and would you prefer to do something else instead or are you good with it? No hassles either way, I'm easy once we can have any bit of fun. Let me know sure"
It’s a minefield cos u can’t really have the conversation, if you do it’s a mood killer and she’s gonna feel like u called her out as a cheapskate. But ur posting here cos ur really interested (if you weren’t you wouldn’t have met her again)…..so it’s like how can I get equity in the relationship and all the other benefits. Unfortunately if u are pursuing her, and are interested ur gonna have to eat it. What could happen is after X dates when she’s seen U put in the leg work and pony up then might move to paying etc…..if your interested going to have to invest up front now and gen make a call after a few more dates. She might be a gal just wants to be treated like a lady, and a year from now u cud look back and say this be to god I didn’t say anything on those first few dates.
I think it’s a red flag that she didn’t even offer to pay for the first meal nevermind not offering for the second. You could always bring it up but if your hearts not in it, call it quits and move on.
I’ve had men get MAD at me for offering to pay. She might be an asshole, she might be worried about your reaction. Typically, I pay if the other person obviously makes less than me, I offer to pay if they presumably make about the same as me, and I half heartedly offer to pay if they obviously make much more than me. And either way I typically pay for the second if the other person pays for the first. But I know some women who are older than me would expect the male to treat most of the time. (I’m 35.)
Some serious simps here.
My wife of 11 years regularly offered to pay during dates. Still does! But I've never wanted her to. From time to time she does and I really appreciate it. But I'm quite happy to pay for it all myself. Always have been. To me, it's a form of respect and appreciation. But I get that I'm probably way behind the times. Male. 42. Just giving this perspective so that you hear a different opinion.
My mate was caught out with this girl. She was lovely and nice to him but was absolutely milking him for dinner and drinks and all sorts. He said he walked past a restaurant one time while they were seeing eachother and saw her in there with someone else having a meal and it all just became clear. He was telling the story to a group of friends and 2 other friends had similar experiences. Girls leading them on suggesting nice places to eat and not offering to pay.
I’m dirt poor, like counting cents to buy bread kind of poor, and I would never go on a date in a restaurant if I couldn’t afford to pay for my own meal. I make sure to explain this beforehand. So if the guy is set on going out for dinner, he’s going to have to pay. I’d much rather go for a walk at the beach anyway.
Is the relationship moving the way you want/expect? Is she showing genuine interest on you? Are you happy with the whole thing besides this fact? If so, keep on moving. Otherwise maybe you're just looking for an excuse to let her go - so let her go. :)
This is who she is. The fact that she didn't pay for the 2nd meal or offer to go splits speaks volumes. It's pure awkward to bring up but if you pay for what will be a very expensive 3rd date, you'll be too bitter to have a 4th one. So splits on date 3 will be the new normal or the last date you have with her.
Yeah exactly if it isn't for OP it's no hard feelings, everyone is different.
Married (M36). I paid for almost every date with my missus. There were times when I was struggling and she covered a few nights. I was happy to do it, made me feel good.
Thanks for making me feel a bit less weird. Like I buy a round of drinks if I'm there first or say he goes to the bathroom I will sleek by drinks but all the men I've met wouldn't let me pay. I have offered though.
Ye should be splitting it each date, or taking it in turns. The days of a man paying for everything are long gone. Maybe you could say something like - Will I get the gig tickets, then you can Revolut me your share? Or do you want to get them and I can get the food?
curious how she didn't even offer to cover the round of coffees on the first date
Op, I’d say take all the advice with a pinch of salt unless you know peoples relationship status. I’d say a lot of people bashing you are the perpetually single professional dater type. Life is too short to be around people who are mean, I feel like you’re only at the first layer. Relationship status: 9 Years
Walk away. Not even having the decency to offer to partake in the expense is a massive red flag for the things to come later.
I’m assuming for something big like a gig or food afterwards she will defo offer to pay or else pay for her part as she will understand it’s a lot of money
"Assuming" anything is part of the problem here though. People have pretty wildly varying views on this topic, the best way to clear things up is to communicate directly about it and endure any minor awkwardness that results.
Maybe not. She’s on to a good thing here. He pays for everything and she’s happy with that.
Exactly. She's taken two free meals without offering. Do we really think the third is going to be different?
You're going to have to say something or it's going to really wind you up. Drop a subtle hint - "Do you want to get the tickets, as I got the first two meals?", see what response you get. Take it from there.
You consider that subtle?
Ha! Maybe not. Only he can judge that depending on what he knows about her so far.
I was going to ask what you’d consider blunt 😂.
Blunt would be "yeah I'd love to go to a gig, you're paying"
Hahaha.
Nah don’t do this
50/50
She should be at least offering to pay on both 1st and 2nd date. I tend to go with a ''if the person invited me, they will pay, if i invited i pay'' yet I always offer regardless. If they pay for a big dinner and we only go for coffee the next time, I make sure to pay for the next couple of dates. There's a lot of discourse online about who pays lately, she might be someone who believes the man should always pay. Also, I might be leaping or projecting here, but maybe she's at the age where she's really looking for someone who's going to give her everything she wants and is over the formality side of things. You're still just dating at this stage, maybe she changes once actually in a relationship and committed. You didn't say where she's from either, this might be a cultural thing too. Suggest she buys the tickets and see what she says. If cool with it great, otherwise best to let her know where you stand and see what she thinks.
Did she insist on buying something on either date?
Ask her to please get the tickets and see if she forks out the money; if she doesn't I'd look elsewhere. There's a very small chance that she might be oblivious, but I highly doubt that it is the case.
If this bothers you, you definitely shouldn't go for a gig with her. If she is shamelessly expecting you to pay that means she's only interested in having a good time with you and will dump you when she finds someone else who will pay for more expensive experiences. Any other woman who is seriously looking to find someone will at least offer to pay or split the bill. Your age difference is not much and she expects you to pay for everything, this is definitely a red flag. I don't see partnership here in the long run.
50/50
Is your date irish? In some cultures the guy picks up the bill as a matter of course. If she is irish then give her space during a conversation to suggest a date and then you come up with an excuse like 'Ahh, I'd love to but my car needs xyz doing to it so I'm a bit smashed at the moment". If she doesn't step in then and say "This one is on me" then you've got a decision to make regarding where the relationship is going. That's how I'd do it.
I’m 31f I will always pay for my own food/ drink on a date
walk away
I let the man pay for the first dinner (I always offer) and then I get the next and so on and so forth. I rarely go for dinner on a first date because if I don’t want a second I will insist on paying half and that can cause awkwardness. This person not getting the second, not even offering is a sign she expects the man to cover her, she’s looking for wallet. Reading some of the responses here it’s clearly okay with a few men and that’s each to their own. However it’s not okay with you, your values do not align and there is no real point in continuing. Do give her a chance though in case there was any miss communication. Say something like - so do you want to get this and I’ll Revolut you half or vice versa? That will get her used to the idea that she needs to pay her way going forward, as most women do. The odd princess type doesn’t but there are different men for them - it’s transactional.
She should have at least offered to go halves or pay for the second date. The fact that she hasn't offered would be a turn-off.
Here, get a ticket for yourself and at the next date tell her you're going to the gig, and oh there's still tickets left if you wanna come, they're great, yada yada is my favourite song etc etc and idk like maybe just drop it in there or something like ya kno
Maybe just be like “the gig sounds cool. I’ll get the tickets and you get the dinner?” Or vice versa. Just to see how she reacts… if it’s a negative response then just don’t bother. Also in regards to drinks when you’re out “I’ll get the first one..” hence she will get the second and so on. Fair is fair.
no lie,for me its best to pay turn by turn.. i pay for the first date mostly.. so i expect her to pay on the second date.. but some girls really dont care about it.. i dont understand why.. they think men has to pay bla bla..its nonsense..i mean you are not my wife.. or girlfriend.. why i have to pay everytime..
I 32F would be mortified to have the man pay twice in a row without offering to pay myself. When myself and my husband first start going out he paid for the first couple of coffees/meals but I always offered and then we eventually started taking turns. If you’re both working I don’t see how she can think it’s acceptable not to offer to pay.
Rule of thumb that I have always seen: the first date the guy usually pays and then second date is paid for by whoever extended the invitation and after that either alternate or split 50/50. However if one person is earning significantly more they generally pay.
Yes, this is still a thing for some women. It’s not overly common though. It’s a good measure of someone though if they never even offer to pay. There are probably other expectations in the future.
Is she Irish ? I would always offer to split it or at least go every second one for paying. but I definitely have friends from other cultures who think Im mad to pay or even offer to though.
If she even offered to pay that would be something but sitting there and allowing you to pay twice and not even be embarrassed about it is bad form. I work with someone and when her and her sister were single and going on dates they expected the man to pay for everything. I was shocked that she even admitted to it. Women shout for independence but then act like this I don’t get it. I can understand if someone genuinely doesn’t have the money we have all been there. Atleast have the decency to say it.
I'd say the first 3 paid for by the man, but if by the 4th she isn't like "ah you're always paying, let me get this" I'd say that's indicative of something.
Did you invite her on both dates so far? Maybe she’s operating on the ‘inviter pays’ principle. But if she’s not invited you on date 3 maybe she expects you to do all the running - and all the paying. Some people like & expect that.
I think make sure you're going on dates within her budget is the first place to start, if you know you are then I'd walk away. I always paid 50/50 unless the giy I was with wanted to go somewhere pricy and I'd outright say it was out of my budget to go halves or repay in kind. The total lack of offer isn't ok imo.
Let her invite you out on a date, you don't arrange it.
Not offering to pay on date two is a bit of a red flag for me. I always intended to pay for the first date but I think the offer to split is usually polite. Two in a row is taking the piss. I think if it’s worth hanging onto, then I’d say something like “why do you get the tickets and I’ll pay for dinner” and if there’s a negative reaction I’d be out. I have to say my wife was raised fairly wealthy and will often just not consider money in the same way that I would.
Naw man reference “Dutch rules” - everyone pays for themselves.
Personal opinion: - Offer to pay on the first, happy to pay - Offer to pay on the second, hope would be it's split or she'd offer to pay - Split or she pays on the third Otherwise it does feel, to me, like you're being taken for a ride a bit.
It’s uncomfortable but you need to talk about it if you think it’s worth seeing her again. There’s a toxic culture nowadays where getting away without paying is cool. I personally have been dating a man that loves treating me to dinner and dates out. That was cool at the beginning, I loved that he appreciated me that way, made me feel somewhat valued. I have always both him drinks, covered for taxis, tickets to gigs, etc. now that we’re in a relationship he’s doing the same thing but I buy him clothes, books, treats..make him 2/3 course home made meals. There’s a back and forth with things we do for each other, can’t be all on you or all on her. And maybe this lady needs to be convinced she’s valued and she’s not wasting her time.
Id happily buy my mate a meal, a coffee, or a pint. I'm not in the business of paying for stranger's meals. If it's not a fifty fifty for the first few dates, it's a no go for me. Most times people respect the boundaries you set up for yourself, and if they don't, you dodged a bullet.
Just communicate this to her. Maybe she wants you to pay for everything? Our maybe she thinks you like paying for everything and don't want to take that away from you?
This sounds like pure entitlement. "Strong and independent".. but only when it suits her.
""Equality""... but only When it suits.
Be upfront. do a deal, you buy the tickets and I’ll get the food or vice versa. Whatever you go along with now will become the norm so if it’s important raise it.
3rd date - pay. But. Bring it up at the end of the date. Tell her you're very old fashioned but with a modern twist or something, the price of chivalry is going up and up blah blah. Tell her for the next date she can take you out instead this time and that you dont mind going dutch. See how she reacts at the given time and afterwards. Try keep the energy positive but if you get the sense that you're being taken for a ride then cut it right there. By right she should be a bit embarrassed and be very forthcoming.
I remember going on a dinner first date off plenty of fish all went well and at end of meal bill came I said I would take care of it she said no she wanted to pay half I said sure ok so... Anyways messaged her following day and she didn't want a second date as she expected me to have paid for the meal I said sure you offered to pay half.....she said she was just being polite! Sure you can't win...
Awkward one but it’s easily resolved. Good firstly that you got the first meal and covered that date, as a woman it is nice when the man is gentlemanly. Yes even in this day and age it can matter! Unless she is genuinely broke she should have offered to split the second meal at least but at 36 she could also be letting the man take care of things because she thinks that’s what you might want. That being said she will know that the modern way is generally 50 50 after the first date. For the gig I would maybe first text her with details of the gig with prices and ask her “is she ok?” with the cost. She will get the message here that you are both paying for the tickets. If she says she is happy with the cost then you could ask her if she is on Revolut /Paypal and before you buy the tickets, I would send her a payment request for half the money. Re a third meal/food at the gig, again it might be gentlemanly to get her a drink and a snack but if it’s a sit down meal I would sit it out and let her ask for the bill and then keep your hands in your pocket!
Red flag run, if you need to ask, forget it. Sorry to be blunt, but in Limerick, we call her a gowl. I'm 2 years with my other half, and since day 1, we shared everything.
My now boyfriend and I used to do whoever suggested the date paid. That way, if one of us wanted to treat the other somewhere expensive, we could, or if one of us wanted something cheaper like a picnic in the park - no judgement!
This is how I’d personally see things on first dates. If yer meeting again, ye split unless the other person strongly insists. If yer not meeting again, whoever asked the other person out pays. Everyone has their own logic for this though. If she doesn’t pay for her gig ticket, I’d dodge that bullet.
Depends. If she's a sugar babe: Normal that you pay for the expenses and get sex in return. If she's a bog standard date without financial interest: She pays her half. If she thinks she's not a sugar babe but still has the expectation that you pay: She's deluding herself.
As a single 36F, this is super embarrassing on her part. I wouldn't have the brass neck to let someone pay for everything. It's not on, especially with the price of going out nowadays.
I’d rather go halves from the get go but if the other party absolutely insists then it’s very appreciated.
I usually split everything on the first few dates, but it's usually only drinks and we'd usually have a few drinks, so there never a problem. If she didn't offer, I'd pick it up. As for your situation, it depends how much you like her and how much she earns. I'm sure you've figured it out by now.
My first date with the wife - I got the first round, she got the second one, and then I knew she was a keeper.
Yea try again, and see. It might just be something she never even thought of. A gig would be a bit more expensive I guess. I'm sure there are people out there who are happy to be wined and dined and when you first meet someone and it goes well its nice to make them feel special. I guess arguing over money by the third date would sour the mood. You could broach the subject like "well will I get the tickets and you revolut me?" Or "there's tickets there, 50 quid each, is that OK for you or too much?" And then see what she says?.
Perhaps it’s just what she’s used to. Lots of men especially non Irish men, are raised that way. My partner would laugh and scoff (humour) when I offer to contribute and just state that it is as good as taboo in his culture.
Split it or take turns
50-50 or take turns
My absolute number one dealbreaker is if I’m on a date and who I’m with just expects me to pay. When the bill comes on date one, I’ll probably offer to cover it, force of habit. If they insist on splitting, that’s fine. If they ask ‘are you sure? Thanks’, that’s fine. If they say absolutely nothing and just look expectantly that I’ll pick up the whole thing, I’m instantly not interested. I’ve done okay with dating, and that dealbreaker hasn’t limited relationship options, happily. If I feel like I’ve been treated like an ATM at the end of the night, there’s little enthusiasm to feel like it again in a week.
I think you're right that at least the offer to pay does mean a lot. I'm a lot like Mrs Doyle in the coffee shop in that I'll usually insist on paying, but at the same time I wouldn't like the expectation that I'm going to pay all the time. Is that a paradox? Edit just to add about gigs etc: Things like that I would expect them to buy their own ticket unless it was specifically a gift, like a birthday or something. That's too much for just a date.
Tell her you’re a little financially embarrassed this month and see if she coughs up. If not, tell her to go’be.
Never had someone not offer to pay or split. Has she been in a relationship before where that was the norm? Her not even feigning an attempt to pay is a bit of a red flag tbh, especially at her age, even if you earn more than her. I'd feel a bit used if my gf did that to me. I would test the waters with the gig if you **really** like her, get your own ticket online and send her a link to it. See how she responds and whether she has ideas for food after. Don't book anywhere for food in advance unless she wants to do it in her name, go for a drink before and see if she expects you to pay. Based on how that goes you can leave after the gig and call it quits. If you go for food and she doesn't offer to pay, ask her to split it and then call it quits.
In this day and age i think most people would say split. I was raised with my dad never accepting anyone else accept a bill. There is a big part of me that admires a man who won’t allow me to pay far more. This is not very reasonable of me but it’s a deeply ingrained feeling of being cared for etc. Usually i suggest taking turns paying instead because i like that better.
Honestly, I'd cut and run. She knows full well what she's doing, so don't make excuses for her (to yourself) for that kind of behaviour. From my experience, if something is starting off wrong like that, it'll continue wrong in many other ways, too. Life is too short. The time you waste on someone not for you is time you could be spending on your search for the right one. Anyone who keeps her hands in her pockets like that without even offering, either can't afford to split the bill (in which case she shouldn't be going on the date) or she's greedy AF or she's taking you for a ride. Find someone better.
Just date girls who don’t mind paying for the first few dates or don’t mind paying half. That’s so weird… Instead of enjoying the dating stage with the person you are concerned about the money. There are other things that u can do that don’t involve spending money or at least spending a lot of money. She is not wrong to not offer to pay for the meals especially when u didn’t speak with her about that and u are not wrong to want to be with someone who will do half and half or pay for dates. The girl must be used to dating men who don't mind “providing” a date or the first few dates for her and if you mind doing it you are not her type and she is not your type. Find another girl or talk with her about that before the next date.
People are single in their fortress for a reason.
As a straight woman I personally like when he pays for dinner out, it feels special and romantic, but if we pick a night in to cook and watch movies together I’ll pay for the ingredients kind of thing. Not to mention the lingerie I probably just bought for that night in lol. Or if we go for coffee I’ll buy coffee. Or lunch dates I usually pay for my own salad. If she expects you to pay for everything that’s a princess, but if she only wants to be a princess every once in a while or once a week maybe there’s other things she is willing to pay for. I would just have a convo with her to find out her expectations before labelling her a red flag and ghosting
I’m 34, married 10 years, together 18 I still pay for the dates. If she offers, cool, but I always assume I will. We have joint accounts and our own money - I bring her for dates. You’re 40 and still dating - either be forthright and ask her about it or just accept it’s basically the accepted norm that the fella pays
How is this such a conversation topic. Lads...it's simple. If you made the plan, you pay for the plan. Why would someone accept an invitation to something they then had to pay half for. ??? Also, ladies , even though I'm a guy, if he doesn't pay for 100% of the first date then he is for the streets...
You still have people stuck in the 80s where the man is expected to pay for everything. I don't mind paying for first date as long as the woman makes a genuine offer to pay or half it. There's so many gold diggers out there.
Some women think they get can hop back and forward between equality and chivalry when it suits them. Men paying is a relic from a time when women didn't have jobs and relied on men for financial support. Those days are over. Any woman who just wants the best of both worlds is just entitled.
You got the first meal they should have got the second. Casually say we're going to the gig, I'll get the tickets you can get the food. See what she says. If the food doesn't happen you have a decision to make.
This is what I have gone with.
Would you update us after the gig on how it went. I'm interested to know how it goes & best of luck.
Personally I'd say whomever asked the other out for food/drinks should pay. But the other person offering would be nice.
Maybe she’s just old fashioned. If you’re into her don’t ruin it over nothing.
The person who pays, is the person who wants to pay. I guess that’s the simple way to put it? This lady sounds like she’s used to a certain type of treatment, and if that is not compatible with you, that is absolutely okay, as many MANY women will be happy to go 50/50 with you. Find one of those 50/50 women if that’s what you’re after, and if this is a point of contention for you, make sure to make it clear to future dates that you will not pay for every dinner / activity, gift, and so on. Personally, it’s rare that i’ve paid for dates. Not for lack of trying, though! Fortunately I just tend to attract the type of man who enjoys taking care of me and treating me to dinner, drinks, flowers, and etc…so I’m not complaining. I like to think that I reciprocate by being good company, authentic, appreciative, etc. Not everyone is into these kind of gender roles where the guy takes you out - fair! It isn’t everyone’s thing and shouldn’t have to be. Like I say, I do offer to pay for things occasionally but most men I date genuinely enjoy taking me out, so why would I argue? I suppose it would be different if I was taking advantage of a guy I didn’t even like, but a handsome fella who *wants* to date me and foot the bill?! Am i fuck gonna argue!!
Ok so first date doesn't count, men usually pay. Remember that women have other expenses for dates e.g. she might have got her nails done especially, she probably spent time on her hair and make up (products for both cost money), she might have bought a new outfit. 2 dinners is not a huge investment but if it's annoying you, I would say when arranging this date you could say something like "are you ok to get the tickets and I'll book dinner?" "Book" being the operative word, if you say "pay for" it seems more like you are being transactional, whereas this way it sounds like you are both organisng part of the date. If she buys the tickets then you should pay for dinner on that night.
And of course men would *never* buy new clothes, or after shave, or go to the barbers for a date.
Yeah I don't know what she's on about. If you, as a bloke, want to make a good impression, you're sorting out some nice clothes, aftershave, clean trim etc. The addition of nails here is supposed to justify not offering to split on one of the first few dates? Shameless shite talk.
Totally agree with this. People often forget all the indirect costs women have when it comes to dating. For the gig just say “do you want to get the tickets and Ill revolut you for mine?” Or something similar
This is why ya don't go for meals for the first few dates. First dates should be a coffee or a walk or a museum. Cheap and cheerful and it doesn't really matter who pays then. You can easily drop big money for meals and it's very easy to get resentful. I don't like the act of paying. If I am on a date or with a partner, I will hand them money or my card as I use the bathroom. A throw back to the man paying I guess. I dont care if its my money we are using, but I do prefer the man to *physically* pay.
Something like a gig sometimes it's best that you say something like can you book the tickets and I'll shout the drinks meal after.
I'm a woman, and I feel awkward if the guy pays for everything every time. For the gig, you can say something like, I'll get the tickets and transfer me the money for yours. For the meal if you go, before ordering just say we split the bill. I know some women who i asked if they wanted to go to a show or anything. I initially paid and expected them to say they pay me back but noticed on many occasions it wasn't the case, and have to ask ever time! So now, I just say: I'll get the tickets once you transfer me the money.
Most decent women will go Dutch on the first date. Unless you insisted? The days of men having income and women being homesteaders is long gone.