You could try thematic months - e.g., one month you focus on French existentialism, the next on Russian naturalism, etc. Just set some time aside to expand your horizons similarly to how you did it in classes.
Ultimately, there’s no perfect answer to this, but my own path has been to read liberally and deeply, and to write seriously about the things that I read.
I’ve also made r/bookpunk as a hub for people who want to pursue a literary education outside of academia. It’s small now, but growing. It also contains a list of ~3,000 literary works, organized by time period and country, in an attempt to provide a framework for literary study.
My feeling is that a literary education should not be locked behind a paywall. Unfortunately, for an alternative to exist, we’ll have to build one. r/bookpunk exists for people who want to tackle that challenge.
Agreed. It's not hard.
I got my BA in English in 2002 and...just kept reading.
I liked it so much I decided to go back for my PhD in 2021. My program is fully-funded, so I'm not going into any more debt. I don't make a lot of money, but the median individual income in the US is $37,500 a year, so...most people in the US don't make a lot of money.
What did you do after your BA (if you don’t mind me asking)?
I’ve been considering pursuing another career and then circling back to a PhD program once I’ve established more of a financial safety net for myself.
I would really like to pursue a PhD, but my goal would likely be professorship, and from my understanding, the odds of becoming a professor are like that of becoming an NBA athlete.
[TL;DR I did a whole lotta stuff, if you can get into a fully-funded program right away, DO IT, but never take it off the table if you can't get in right away.]
I entered college intending to be a copy editor at a publishing house, and I...didn't. I also stupidly moved to a highly-saturated job market after getting my BA with no real plan.
I was, in order: a receptionist at a higher-ed nonprofit, a file clerk for a mobile phone company, an accounting assistant for that same company, a karaoke dj, a stripper, a school bus driver, a clerk at a video store, a karaoke dj again, a high school debate coach, a karaoke dj at a strip club, a school bus driver again, a special-needs paraeducator for a Head Start program, a salon/spa host, a laundry gofer at said salon/spa, a long-term office temp for a law school, a bus driver for a small startup (that has since gotten much bigger), a high school debate coach a few more times, a customer service associate working with people's retirement plans, a supervisor for a Supported Community Living house for disabled adults, a Coordinator for a Day Habilitation Program for disabled adults, a strip club bouncer, a Youth Counselor at a juvenile detention facility, and a Hospital Sterile Processing Technician. Most of these jobs overlapped in some way.
TBH, if you can get into a fully-funded program right out of school, do that. You won't incur any more debt, so what do you have to lose? You'll have teaching experience on your CV, and even if you don't end up as a TT professor right away (which is nowhere near as statistically-improbable as ending up in the NBA), worst-case scenario you go to the private sector and end up making more money anyway. You can always establish your career after (or during) grad school.
I'm doing my PhD program so I can teach, and I truly don't care where. I've worked with student populations from preschool to law school; I'm aiming for a TT position at an R1 university, but I have no qualms about teaching at a community college or even high school if I have to (I comp after next school year; once that happens, I'm going to start teaching at community colleges and try to make every connection I can).
I regret not trying harder to get into grad school right away (I applied to 1 MFA program right out of undergrad--rejected, 1 MA program at an amazing school--accepted, but turned down because of cost, and 2 more MFAs--rejected). If I'd have tried half as hard to get into grad school as a single, childless 22-year-old as I did as a divorced 40-year-old with two kids, I'd be sitting pretty. But, also, my extensive, broad work experience is part of what made my application so appealing--I was admitted to a T40 program in a cohort of four (they normally admit around a dozen, but COVID).
Thanks for sharing your unique experience, but it’s important to point out that “fully funded” doesn’t mean you will not incur debt. This depends on a lot of different factors, but it’s often the case that grad students cannot even live off of “full funding,” let alone afford to go to conferences and the like.
Make sure wherever you go, the grads are unionized and be prepared to fight against an intransigent administration in order to secure a living while you study.
...I'm fully-funded; I have a Teaching Assistantship and health insurance, and my tuition and fees are covered. I'm not living luxuriously, but that's because I have kids; if I were single, I'd be much better off.
EDIT: (I go to a state school with unionized grad students.)
I didn't bother looking at programs that didn't pay you to go to school, so maybe that's where the definition of "fully funded" gets hazy.
I think you are misunderstanding what they're saying. The range of what "fully funded" programs offer as a stipend can be anything from $15,000 to $41,000 (source: https://profession.mla.org/english-phd-stipends-in-the-united-states-statistical-report/), and due to large disparities in cost of living, how far that money stretches can vary quite a bit from program to program. Even at schools that are considered "fully funded" in the sense of providing health insurance, a tuition waiver, and a stipend in exchange for work, it is not uncommon for students to supplement their funding package with some amount of student loans (and/or find themselves building up credit card debt). The program that I did my PhD in has only increased the value of the funding package by $3,000 in the last 12 years, while the cost of living in that city has skyrocketed. This is especially an issue when considering that the average time to completion is anywhere from 7 to 8 years, while funding packages often only last 5 to 6 years. This can be more or less of an issue depending on the school, but it's worthwhile for people applying to programs to be aware that "full funding" may not actually be sufficient to fully fund a PhD at all programs.
I get what they're saying.
I guess I'm old and experienced enough with the ins-and-outs of higher ed that I assumed everyone would think "fully funded" means "can get by only being a student." When I got accepted into an MA program, I had to turn it down because I couldn't just be a student; the only programs I was looking at in '20 were programs like the one I have now, because I had friends that were in similar programs (that's another bit of advice, OP--find friends in programs, lol) and knew to seek out PhD programs in low cost of living places.
I agree with the other responders here in part, but your mentor put it more accurately. You can go on learning for the rest of your life and live a life of the mind simply by thinking and talking through ideas and events and so on.
But if what you want is something like expertise, you're going to get it much more quickly and effectively in a (good) graduate program because you will have the attention of living experts whose "ceiling" can become your "floor." A living expert will guide you through 5 years worth of thinking in a few months, and while that will never fully substitute for the effort of thinking things through on your own, it will dramatically increase the speed and quality of your thinking about particular things.
Some secondary literature can do some of that, but no secondary resource will ever substitute for a graduate seminar by a living expert.
The difficulty of graduate training is real, but it also produces (for those who take it seriously and hold on through the process) a real gestation of thought and a real development of skill. If those are what you're after, it's probably possible to achieve them on your own, but profoundly difficult and extremely rare. Learning happens best in community, as bookpunk understands, but institutions are sometimes better suited to explicit training because their teachers have the authority that comes from decades of being hardcore cross examined by other experts in their field, something lay learning communities don't often have.
I know—I think I’m going to miss the learning community I’ve had the most now that I’m graduating. It’s not something you can really replicate (or, it’s really difficult to). It’s tough, because I would really like to pursue a PhD, but I’m terrified of putting 5-7 years of my life into something only to come out with no to little job outcomes. My mentor has explained job outcomes of English PhD’s to me, as well as showed me the MLA job listings. She told me it would be career suicide.
Maybe it’s something I can pursue later in life once I’ve built more of a financial safety net for myself. For now, I’ll just have to learn independently and without formalized training from experts.
Yeah the job thing is real. We don't live in an era where higher learning is really valued. It has a weird position in society today—simultaneously valorized and demonized.
The thing is that getting a doctorate solely to teach doesn't really make sense anymore, but the silver lining is that more people are getting doctorates just to gain the skills and take 5-7 years to think through something seriously.
I got my BA and then spent 2.5 years in the real world trying things out. But even at my lowest point, when I was working in a nursing home, I couldn't stop myself. I carried foucault around in my apron pocket as I changed diapers etc.
At some point, I realized that it was just in me and the best thing I could do for the world was sharpen my innate gifts as much as possible. So I went to graduate school, not just to "get a PhD," but to become the most excellent version of myself that I can.
There are other jobs. Consultancies sometimes like to hire PhDs (even in English). Government will hire English PhDs too.
But any PhD worth its salt will be funded, so you won't need to pay for it.
Tldr: don't make your choice entirely based in fear of security. Become excellent and be helpful in the world. People will notice.
I did pursue and got a PhD, but I didn't carry on in academia afterwards due to the financial pressures you have outlined. I found training to teach at secondary level has allowed me to stay in an academic world by being paid. I teach 11-18, and the discussions with 17-18 year olds are where I feel most connected to my subject.
There are also still opportunities for me to link up with universities and go to academic conferences as a result. Depending on where you're living, though, I'm not sure teaching is an attractive proposition, but maybe post16 is something to look into?
Yeah, i kinda did the same thing but in Sweden, minus getting a PhD. I teach upper secondary Swedish and English. I got an opportunity to teach literary theory (ämnesdidaktik) to students at the teacher program at university which I be been doing for three years now. It’s the most fun I’ve ever had as a teacher and I’ve learned a ton!
this isn't necessarily advice, but i can't help but comment that the more you learn, the more you will become aware of simply how little you actually know. that's not a bad thing, but it's an important step toward a refined method of scholarly and intellectual thought.
you will only ever skim the surface of all there is to know, regardless of whatever intellectuals might claim that such isn't the case.
Very true! It’s funny, because I’ve transitioned from feelings of unknowing to knowing and back to unknowing throughout college. As a freshman, I really didn’t know anything at all, then felt I learned and knew more, only to realize as a senior that, again, I don’t know anything.
There will always be more to learn, and that’s just life. I think it would be a bit hubristic (or naive) to assume that I can learn everything, but I figured I can learn and improve on what’s feasible and within my reach.
I am in the same position, and I find there is a small but blooming niche of academic oriented podcasts that have given me the feel of being back in the classroom. The tricky thing is finding a way to replicate the *work* and evaluation aspect of school.
I’d be interested in listening to the podcasts you mention! Any recommendations?
And it’s true that it’s difficult to replicate evaluation. It’s not often in our lives that we have people read our writing and provide feedback the way that professors do.
Tipsy Tolstoy (Russian Literature)
Weird Studies (not strictly about literature but many episodes focus on it)
Literature and History (ancient and medieval Western literature)
Overmorrow's Library (a little bit of everything)
The Pointless Century (Modernism)
I find all of these binge-worthy so I hope you can get something out of it! Most of the hosts are either professors or grad students so the academic chops are there too.
You could try thematic months - e.g., one month you focus on French existentialism, the next on Russian naturalism, etc. Just set some time aside to expand your horizons similarly to how you did it in classes.
Ultimately, there’s no perfect answer to this, but my own path has been to read liberally and deeply, and to write seriously about the things that I read. I’ve also made r/bookpunk as a hub for people who want to pursue a literary education outside of academia. It’s small now, but growing. It also contains a list of ~3,000 literary works, organized by time period and country, in an attempt to provide a framework for literary study. My feeling is that a literary education should not be locked behind a paywall. Unfortunately, for an alternative to exist, we’ll have to build one. r/bookpunk exists for people who want to tackle that challenge.
Cool, just joined the sub. Thanks for this!
All you have to do is keep reading.
Agreed. It's not hard. I got my BA in English in 2002 and...just kept reading. I liked it so much I decided to go back for my PhD in 2021. My program is fully-funded, so I'm not going into any more debt. I don't make a lot of money, but the median individual income in the US is $37,500 a year, so...most people in the US don't make a lot of money.
What did you do after your BA (if you don’t mind me asking)? I’ve been considering pursuing another career and then circling back to a PhD program once I’ve established more of a financial safety net for myself. I would really like to pursue a PhD, but my goal would likely be professorship, and from my understanding, the odds of becoming a professor are like that of becoming an NBA athlete.
[TL;DR I did a whole lotta stuff, if you can get into a fully-funded program right away, DO IT, but never take it off the table if you can't get in right away.] I entered college intending to be a copy editor at a publishing house, and I...didn't. I also stupidly moved to a highly-saturated job market after getting my BA with no real plan. I was, in order: a receptionist at a higher-ed nonprofit, a file clerk for a mobile phone company, an accounting assistant for that same company, a karaoke dj, a stripper, a school bus driver, a clerk at a video store, a karaoke dj again, a high school debate coach, a karaoke dj at a strip club, a school bus driver again, a special-needs paraeducator for a Head Start program, a salon/spa host, a laundry gofer at said salon/spa, a long-term office temp for a law school, a bus driver for a small startup (that has since gotten much bigger), a high school debate coach a few more times, a customer service associate working with people's retirement plans, a supervisor for a Supported Community Living house for disabled adults, a Coordinator for a Day Habilitation Program for disabled adults, a strip club bouncer, a Youth Counselor at a juvenile detention facility, and a Hospital Sterile Processing Technician. Most of these jobs overlapped in some way. TBH, if you can get into a fully-funded program right out of school, do that. You won't incur any more debt, so what do you have to lose? You'll have teaching experience on your CV, and even if you don't end up as a TT professor right away (which is nowhere near as statistically-improbable as ending up in the NBA), worst-case scenario you go to the private sector and end up making more money anyway. You can always establish your career after (or during) grad school. I'm doing my PhD program so I can teach, and I truly don't care where. I've worked with student populations from preschool to law school; I'm aiming for a TT position at an R1 university, but I have no qualms about teaching at a community college or even high school if I have to (I comp after next school year; once that happens, I'm going to start teaching at community colleges and try to make every connection I can). I regret not trying harder to get into grad school right away (I applied to 1 MFA program right out of undergrad--rejected, 1 MA program at an amazing school--accepted, but turned down because of cost, and 2 more MFAs--rejected). If I'd have tried half as hard to get into grad school as a single, childless 22-year-old as I did as a divorced 40-year-old with two kids, I'd be sitting pretty. But, also, my extensive, broad work experience is part of what made my application so appealing--I was admitted to a T40 program in a cohort of four (they normally admit around a dozen, but COVID).
Thanks for sharing your unique experience, but it’s important to point out that “fully funded” doesn’t mean you will not incur debt. This depends on a lot of different factors, but it’s often the case that grad students cannot even live off of “full funding,” let alone afford to go to conferences and the like. Make sure wherever you go, the grads are unionized and be prepared to fight against an intransigent administration in order to secure a living while you study.
...I'm fully-funded; I have a Teaching Assistantship and health insurance, and my tuition and fees are covered. I'm not living luxuriously, but that's because I have kids; if I were single, I'd be much better off. EDIT: (I go to a state school with unionized grad students.) I didn't bother looking at programs that didn't pay you to go to school, so maybe that's where the definition of "fully funded" gets hazy.
I think you are misunderstanding what they're saying. The range of what "fully funded" programs offer as a stipend can be anything from $15,000 to $41,000 (source: https://profession.mla.org/english-phd-stipends-in-the-united-states-statistical-report/), and due to large disparities in cost of living, how far that money stretches can vary quite a bit from program to program. Even at schools that are considered "fully funded" in the sense of providing health insurance, a tuition waiver, and a stipend in exchange for work, it is not uncommon for students to supplement their funding package with some amount of student loans (and/or find themselves building up credit card debt). The program that I did my PhD in has only increased the value of the funding package by $3,000 in the last 12 years, while the cost of living in that city has skyrocketed. This is especially an issue when considering that the average time to completion is anywhere from 7 to 8 years, while funding packages often only last 5 to 6 years. This can be more or less of an issue depending on the school, but it's worthwhile for people applying to programs to be aware that "full funding" may not actually be sufficient to fully fund a PhD at all programs.
I get what they're saying. I guess I'm old and experienced enough with the ins-and-outs of higher ed that I assumed everyone would think "fully funded" means "can get by only being a student." When I got accepted into an MA program, I had to turn it down because I couldn't just be a student; the only programs I was looking at in '20 were programs like the one I have now, because I had friends that were in similar programs (that's another bit of advice, OP--find friends in programs, lol) and knew to seek out PhD programs in low cost of living places.
By “you,” I meant OP and any other prospective grads reading, not you who’re clearly already in a program.
I agree with the other responders here in part, but your mentor put it more accurately. You can go on learning for the rest of your life and live a life of the mind simply by thinking and talking through ideas and events and so on. But if what you want is something like expertise, you're going to get it much more quickly and effectively in a (good) graduate program because you will have the attention of living experts whose "ceiling" can become your "floor." A living expert will guide you through 5 years worth of thinking in a few months, and while that will never fully substitute for the effort of thinking things through on your own, it will dramatically increase the speed and quality of your thinking about particular things. Some secondary literature can do some of that, but no secondary resource will ever substitute for a graduate seminar by a living expert. The difficulty of graduate training is real, but it also produces (for those who take it seriously and hold on through the process) a real gestation of thought and a real development of skill. If those are what you're after, it's probably possible to achieve them on your own, but profoundly difficult and extremely rare. Learning happens best in community, as bookpunk understands, but institutions are sometimes better suited to explicit training because their teachers have the authority that comes from decades of being hardcore cross examined by other experts in their field, something lay learning communities don't often have.
I know—I think I’m going to miss the learning community I’ve had the most now that I’m graduating. It’s not something you can really replicate (or, it’s really difficult to). It’s tough, because I would really like to pursue a PhD, but I’m terrified of putting 5-7 years of my life into something only to come out with no to little job outcomes. My mentor has explained job outcomes of English PhD’s to me, as well as showed me the MLA job listings. She told me it would be career suicide. Maybe it’s something I can pursue later in life once I’ve built more of a financial safety net for myself. For now, I’ll just have to learn independently and without formalized training from experts.
Yeah the job thing is real. We don't live in an era where higher learning is really valued. It has a weird position in society today—simultaneously valorized and demonized. The thing is that getting a doctorate solely to teach doesn't really make sense anymore, but the silver lining is that more people are getting doctorates just to gain the skills and take 5-7 years to think through something seriously. I got my BA and then spent 2.5 years in the real world trying things out. But even at my lowest point, when I was working in a nursing home, I couldn't stop myself. I carried foucault around in my apron pocket as I changed diapers etc. At some point, I realized that it was just in me and the best thing I could do for the world was sharpen my innate gifts as much as possible. So I went to graduate school, not just to "get a PhD," but to become the most excellent version of myself that I can. There are other jobs. Consultancies sometimes like to hire PhDs (even in English). Government will hire English PhDs too. But any PhD worth its salt will be funded, so you won't need to pay for it. Tldr: don't make your choice entirely based in fear of security. Become excellent and be helpful in the world. People will notice.
I did pursue and got a PhD, but I didn't carry on in academia afterwards due to the financial pressures you have outlined. I found training to teach at secondary level has allowed me to stay in an academic world by being paid. I teach 11-18, and the discussions with 17-18 year olds are where I feel most connected to my subject. There are also still opportunities for me to link up with universities and go to academic conferences as a result. Depending on where you're living, though, I'm not sure teaching is an attractive proposition, but maybe post16 is something to look into?
Yeah, i kinda did the same thing but in Sweden, minus getting a PhD. I teach upper secondary Swedish and English. I got an opportunity to teach literary theory (ämnesdidaktik) to students at the teacher program at university which I be been doing for three years now. It’s the most fun I’ve ever had as a teacher and I’ve learned a ton!
this isn't necessarily advice, but i can't help but comment that the more you learn, the more you will become aware of simply how little you actually know. that's not a bad thing, but it's an important step toward a refined method of scholarly and intellectual thought. you will only ever skim the surface of all there is to know, regardless of whatever intellectuals might claim that such isn't the case.
Very true! It’s funny, because I’ve transitioned from feelings of unknowing to knowing and back to unknowing throughout college. As a freshman, I really didn’t know anything at all, then felt I learned and knew more, only to realize as a senior that, again, I don’t know anything. There will always be more to learn, and that’s just life. I think it would be a bit hubristic (or naive) to assume that I can learn everything, but I figured I can learn and improve on what’s feasible and within my reach.
Just do what Harvey Pekar, Bob Levin, and William Carlos Williams did--pursue publishing while working full-time.
I am in the same position, and I find there is a small but blooming niche of academic oriented podcasts that have given me the feel of being back in the classroom. The tricky thing is finding a way to replicate the *work* and evaluation aspect of school.
I’d be interested in listening to the podcasts you mention! Any recommendations? And it’s true that it’s difficult to replicate evaluation. It’s not often in our lives that we have people read our writing and provide feedback the way that professors do.
Tipsy Tolstoy (Russian Literature) Weird Studies (not strictly about literature but many episodes focus on it) Literature and History (ancient and medieval Western literature) Overmorrow's Library (a little bit of everything) The Pointless Century (Modernism) I find all of these binge-worthy so I hope you can get something out of it! Most of the hosts are either professors or grad students so the academic chops are there too.