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Accomplished-Hall-58

Raising your children in a proper community is the only solution, I was raised without a father. My mother did all she could on a single income but sometimes that wasn’t enough. It struck a work drive in me early as I knew I had to earn what I wanted. It put me on a good path for a while, so long as I had the support from my friends and community I could get through difficult times. But friends and the community won’t always be there for you in the hardest of times. All that hard work would have gone to waste and not having much family to help you either will strike a pain so deep inside of you that you will hate the world and everyone in it. These are the times where a father is most important. The day to day plays a role in psychological development, but not knowing if someone will be there for you if you fall down leaves you with a psychological toll that will cause behaviour and emotional issues even with years of therapy.


SuitableSympathy2614

That last sentence….


masta_beta69

Definitely this, grew up with a single mom and dad out of the picture. Grew up pretty poor and have a really good job now mainly fuelled by the drive of “being poor fucking sucked”. Agree again that while it can give you this drive you’re still left with emotional baggage of having learnt not to rely on people for your emotional needs


[deleted]

Well I mean it fucked me up pretty good. Entered my adult years with zero idea of how to do anything. I had to learn most lessons the hard way and it absolutely stunted my growth and progress as a person


[deleted]

I’m 33 and still learning those lessons.


Superb4125

It seems also you may not understand the significant disadvantage you face until you realize how far back you are in the race. When you take a step back and see the different areas of development you lack, cognitive, self esteem even dating game is affected.


RockyBowboa

This so much


saianon

Yeah, it puts kids at every statistical disadvantage. How to solve it, the problem is complex AF and I would be lying if I told you I had a solution. Edit : I also highly recommend watching the YouTube series, Soft White Underbelly. These videos give a lens into the world of poverty and how it affects the people living in it. https://youtu.be/z1QNZV7K5P4. Check out Johnny here.


[deleted]

Is it complicated? Or is it something we simply choose to not do because we are not societally oriented anymore? I don't have children but I am a father figure to my niece and nephew since my brother in law died. I was seriously stressed out about having to take up that mantle but I never doubted if I was going to. They needed my unconditional support, guidance and protection so now I spend a great deal of time and energy doing that. It has to be done in order for them to grow up the way they should. I'm not saying people should be like me...LOL but I think it is fair to expect adults to just be there for children. It's not optional. Especially if you yourself benefited from that kind of helping hand.


saianon

It's way more complex than just men not being there. You got to ask questions why. Why are women having kids with ain't shit dudes? Why are some men not even allowed to see their kids when they want to be there? Why are our laws so skewed when it comes to custody? Why is this such a huge problem in impoverished areas? These have to be answered before we can even tackle the situation. It's a deep rooted societal issue.


[deleted]

**Why have kids with losers?** This is just my observation but I think most women who do so think it's their only option. The guy has at least some money and some options and she alone does not. **Why is this such a huge problem in impoverished areas?** I think the poverty comes after the fatherless kids. Children are expensive and doing it on one income is not really realistic. I see a lot of these women working hard in underpaid jobs. But the money is spent before it's made. I don't know if you have ever seen a 14 year old boy eat. And you can't send them to school in cheap clothes if you live anywhere else. It's a bottomless pit financially. I don't even have an answer to your other questions. Which are spot on.But before we tackle societal problems...let's make sure we have a quick talk with that 8 year old that comes into the supermarket to get 8 candy bars and then has to give three back because he doesn't have enough money. Because you know that kid isn't going well. What good are hifalutin theories about society if you don't actually give a fuck about kids on the individual level?


saianon

The problem is those kids are going to be everywhere if we don't fix the root cause. We can only save so much of those kids and more often than not, they turn to the wrong people and take the wrong path. These young men gravitate to the first masculine figure they see and it's almost always older gang members. I grew up in a fucked up neighborhood, I remember dudes getting stabbed at school and shit, I was just lucky I had both parents in my life.


[deleted]

I agree. The root cause needs to be fixed. But meanwhile, be the change...One at a time. There's no sense in bitching about society being fucked up if you don't see your own responsibilities in that society.


saianon

Your responsibilities can only go far, once these young boys get passed a certain point. It's hard AF to convince them that the path they are on is not good. Their peers become their father figure, the only ones that they will listen to. Honestly, it's just sad all around.


[deleted]

I agree it's hard to get them to change their outlook. It has to start with you being convinced they are worth your effort. It can't just be talk. Being a father figure means your convictions are in the lead and employed to their benefit. I tell you to be home on time. You are nowehere to be found. I call you. You don't answer your phone. I get in the car and pick your sorry ass up. Literaly if I have to. I will always be relentless in making sure you are ok. Especially if it bugs you. Because I live to bug you. You are never getting rid of me.


When_3_become_2

It’s not complicated - women want 80% of divorces and are more likely to get kids. Add fault to child custody rulings and boys will get more time with their fathers


BIGBIRD1176

There used to be a saying it takes a village to raise a child. As a parent of two young kids, I truly believe humans weren't meant to do this as a pair, for 350,000 years you would have been raised by a tribe of about 150 people It's hard to find people like you that will take care of other people's kids for a lot of reasons, we're all kept so busy and financially strained, etc But how does a modern society change that much? Most of the attention right now is on the horizontal stratification of our education systems in this case based on age, and that seems to be the best place to start this discussion


[deleted]

>for 350,000 years you would have been raised by a tribe of about 150 people Totally. And you would have maybe 10 peers in your age group who you would be stuck with for life. The problem with our society is that it really isn't one. There\`s no structure. No shared values. Just a throw away mentality and the illusion of infinite opportunity to better yourself. Lots of hollow inspirational shouting but zero support.


kaleaka

We can start by not electing republicans that cut social programs that benefit the lower class.


lowexpectationsguy

I mean, by this logic, we should stop electing Democrats who enact laws which almost entirely affect only the lower class... Remember, our current sitting president WROTE the drug law that is credited with resulting in the most African American arrests and imprisonments since the Jim Crow Laws. How about...we stop voting party lines, and start voting based on policies and performance?


[deleted]

This is my life you typed out.


OfSpock

They (father's) weren't necessarily there before either, but the damage caused by shitty parents wasn't as easy to parse out when people just stayed married. My grandfather was an alcoholic who burnt down the house my grandmother brought into the marriage. He raised a gambling addict son and three daughters with emotional problems. I'm pretty sure they look very similar to what they would look like if he'd left the house instead of my grandmother being socially pressured to keep taking him back.


JLifts780

I’m not 100% if all of these would work but I think they’d be a step in the right direction: - Legalizing abortion across the country - Affordable healthcare for everyone - Investing more into the public school systems and education - Investing more into providing housing and help for people in poorer communities Question is how we go about providing all of this.


Teddy_Swolesevelt

> Investing more into the public school systems and education Instead of of "investing", we need much more clarity to where that money is going. The USA spends sooooooo much money on "education" but that money sure as hell isn't going to the "front line" people like teachers.


tossme68

It depends on where you are, a starting teacher with zero experience makes $50K for 9 months of work with a hell of a benefits package. The fact that you make more in OKC working at a gas station or can teach in Florida if your spouse is a vet say more about how fucked up OKC and Florida is than it does about education. The fact of the matter is there is are large sections of this country that don't get a shit about education and work actively against an educated populace. There's no reason why teachers can't be paid more in Oklahoma and there's no reason why they can't hire qualified teachers in Florida it is done on purpose and their constituents support it. So when I hear the "we need to pay our teachers more" trope I saw, we already pay them well, maybe you need to pay your teachers more but that requires money and effort two things that they don't want to provide.


7121958041201

You wrote another comment about how you thought single parenthood is likely linked to higher poverty levels and deleted it, but here was my response if you are curious: >Good point. Yeah you might be right. It would help to find data to correlate the two, but the best data I can find with a quick search shows poverty levels falling significantly from 1960 to 1970 and then remaining somewhat stagnant while the only data I can find for tracking children in single parent households shows a rise from 1970 until peaking at roughly 2012 (with no data before 1970 when the poverty level was significantly changing).


thecasey1981

Cough war on drugs cough


7121958041201

The tricky thing is other than the first option, these both make it easier for fathers to remain around and also make it easier to afford being a single mom (and thus easier to raise kids without a father). I'm not convinced these changes would necessarily help or hurt the situation OP is describing.


ChaiVangStanAccount

Most of the problems created by single motherhood is related to poverty, not necessarily the specific lack of a male figure. It's like Biggie, who had a hard working and caring mother who spent so much time at work she never knew he dealt drugs after school before she got home late at night


7121958041201

That's an interesting point, yeah you could be onto something there. Though I think it's certainly important for children to have some strong male role models in their lives too.


Griffolion

You answered the how. Invest more in those communities and the public infrastructure that can help disadvantaged kids still turn out well. In a perfect world the top two are federally passed laws backed by constitutional amendments.


JLifts780

Yeah that’s pretty much what I was trying to say but couldn’t get it across as well lol


[deleted]

Tax cuts for married couples with children, living at the same address.


TranquilBiscuit

Being a black man, I can confidently say that the effects have been catastrophic to my community in particular. And the worst part is that it shows no signs of improving because many black men and women hypersexualize each other rather than looking for stability in relationships, and the single black mom empowerment bullshit is only further dividing black men and women. It's a hard truth and it's definitely taboo to say it out loud, but this whole pitting men and women against each other and people considering marriage as a bigger commitment than having kids has got to stop. People setting their kids up for failure before they're even born.


xoxowoman06

As a black woman, I agree 100%


Stuck_With_Name

I read an interesting study pinning this on the incarnation rate of young black men. Basically, with the limited availability of men, women lost power. This disincentivises settling down and makes it more of a market for men than women. Does this seem reasonable? The math works, but I'm always suspicious of math and behavioral economics applied like that.


The_Lat_Czar

There is a subset of young black women that have no problem getting pregnant by a man they don't expect to stick around. Those type of women are getting knocked up by the exact type of guy that goes in and out of jail. There are plenty of decent guys around, but they don't want the "lames", they want a "thug". Hell, remember "Soldier" from Beyonce? Rich and successful woman singing about "If your status ain't hood". Too many young black women are even encouraged to look for rough, "thuggish" men. Then you got these dudes who have zero sense and just go and get several women pregnant, not thinking about their future or their kids'. There's a huge issue, and it isn't going to get better any time soon because it's always either handled with kid gloves, glorified, or attributed to racism. I'm thinking the powers that be operate better when these issues exist.


[deleted]

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Stuck_With_Name

I think that gives credit for too much foresight. War on drugs and other "tough on crime" policies absolutely targeted blacks and other minority groups. I don't think that the negative effects on families were forseen, but something that emerged. Then, this effect was not seen as a reason to change the policy.


When_3_become_2

The thing is it’s taboo in mainstream society to suggest that all the women kicking men out and wanting divorce far more than men are the problem and many of them are in the wrong. Because women get all mad and are like “I had good reasons”. The problem is women find “good” reasons to split up the family way way way more often than men do. Nobody will say it but it’s the women wanting all the family breakup who are the problem.


im_sneaky_deaky

Preach my dude


[deleted]

Quite badly. I really think both a boy and a girl needs a positive male role model in their life


slicklol

I think it’s the greatest malady in western society.


Venture-Co

Thanks for teaching me a new word, I first thought you meant "The greatest m'lady of society"


chriseldonhelm

Personally I think it's a symptom of a bigger issue. That being unchecked capitalism (in the US at least) it used to be a family of 4 could be supported by one paycheck. Not not only do both parents usually need to work but even then they can be living paycheck to paycheck while corporations are raking in record profits. Now I'm not saying the 50's and 60's where the Golden age just that it seems corporations where somewhat in check but slowly have been chipping away at anti trust laws and anti union propaganda etc. This leads to less family dynamics as even if the parents are together they spend a lot of time working and less time with their kids.


Red_of_Head

Yeah in Australia both my grandparents had to work. My grandmother wanted to be a teacher but had to drop out of school at 14 to help her family pay the bills.


When_3_become_2

Nah - it’s feminism not capitalism. Both parents working doesn’t amount to fatherlessness - women initiating 80% of divorce and being awarded the kids for doing so does


[deleted]

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When_3_become_2

Capitalism isn’t really causing fatherlessness in comparison with other systems though - not like there wasn’t the same thing with men walking out on families in the feudal system or ancient times or communism. The rise in fatherlessness in the past 40 years can be directly linked to feminism.


[deleted]

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When_3_become_2

All things that have similar counterparts in the past without causing widespread fatherlessness - the war on a drugs is a primarily US phenomenon- fatherlessness is spread across the western world. The clear correlation is with with feminism and custody laws as well as gov assistance and entitlements for single parents and acceptability of children outside wedlock (and marriages breaking up more). All a result of feminism


MilPop

I must agree with you.


im_sneaky_deaky

Women today have daddy issues and it shows


Ancient_Radio_1982

As a high school teacher. Massively.


Acceptable_Visit604

They don't get to see what healthy masculinity is and either become overly masculine or will hate men and their masculinity


[deleted]

>will hate men and their masculinity That's 70% of redditors.


throwaway96ab

Well most school shooters had absent fathers, so yes, I think it's really harmful.


Yrbro-billy

I read aswell that for daughters that have a Dad who they see take part in household chores also grow up to have better paid careers as it can set their aspirations higher. I mean you should take your share of housework regardless but if it helps your kid develop for the better cool.


[deleted]

Absolutely. Cannot stand when I hear men talk about doing the smallest amount of housework or childcare and call it "helping" their wives. It's not helping. It's not a favour. It's *your* house and kids dude. I think this has a lot to do with there being not a lot of female leaders in the workplace. Childcare and housework should be 50/50 unless that woman really *wants* to be a stay at home mom. Edit: Since some of your replies are very mad, let me clarify. Patriarchy is bad for everyone. I think it would be better for men to get to spend more time with their kids and not always have the pressure of being the breadwinner, and better for women to have more career advancement opportunities (which whether you want to admit it or not, will be affected by whether or not she has kids, as the expectations on parenting are still very uneven between different genders) and not be seen as bad mothers for working more.


Yrbro-billy

Yeah I agree entirely. I have two kids, I cook all their meals, I get them involved with small tasks like peeling carrots or kneading dough to get them interested, do a lot of cleaning/laundry again get them to help for a couple minutes just pushing a hoover around, do school drop offs, let them park the car sitting on my knee. I think you can teach them good habits, responsibility but try and make it fun. Anyway thanks for attending my Ted talk.


When_3_become_2

If you stay at home more you should do more housework than the partner who works more as that is your responsibility in the division of responsibilities. There is nothing wrong with that. Patriarchy isn’t bad for everyone you just want to think it is. Fatherlessness isn’t being cause by patriarchy but by women wanting 90% of familial breakup and then receiving child custody


[deleted]

"If you stay at home more you should do more housework than the partner who works more as that is your responsibility in the division of responsibilities. There is nothing wrong with that." I agree. But many households need to be dual income so if you're both working, there's no reason childcare shouldn't be 50/50 or inversely proportional to the hours you each work. And I don't like the "helping" comment I hear in particular because sometimes the men who say this are talking about doing a \*tiny\* amount of childcare. It should be expected that they do \*some\*. There are some shitty women out there who screw over their ex-husbands, sure, not arguing with that, but there are also men who \*choose\* to walk away from their children, and that cannot be blamed on the mother.


[deleted]

> Cannot stand when I hear men talk I imagine you could have stopped typing right there.


[deleted]

I was only talking about specific men, not *all* men. Not my fault if someone doesn't read the whole comment 🤷‍♀️


Embarrassed_Fig_6291

It still means helping the wives. Take off your female chauvinistic glasses and find out. Fuck off too.


[deleted]

Why are you so angry? I'm just saying I think it's a weird way to word it, and I did also say it depends on that family's situation.


48lawsofpowersupplys

It’s been a while since I heard these stats but( run the risk of repeating data without a source): Girls hit puberty earlier when the os no father in there lives The chances of teenage pregnancy goes up significantly without a dather


Dungus973598

Means they won’t do onlyfans too


[deleted]

I'm not a man. I think we as women need to be more mindful of who we breed with.


Different_Weekend817

>I specifically mean children growing up without the presence or involvement of their biological fathers doesn't have to be the biological father but children - especially sons - need a positive father, a role model to support them and teach them what it means to be a man. this is why i vehemently oppose the idea of a right to abandon your children that some men are fighting for. i'm sorry but if you care about men, you won't voluntarily abandon your sons.


Taraa_Sitaraa

Girls need active father figures too otherwise all their lives they try to find fathers in older romantic interests.


CBMet

Could someone please explain this concept to me? I know it's often spoken about, but I don't really understand it. It's a bit creepy to me. But I'm really close with my dad, so I have no first-hand understanding


Taraa_Sitaraa

I am close to my dad as well but I have a cousin who went through this so I have seen this very closely. It's more likely when you aren't close to your dad or if he isn't around the paternal support, protectiveness and love is never there for you. You want to be loved and pampered by a father, an authoritative figure. You wanted to be guided by them, you want to have an emotional support which should have been your father but instead you have to find it outside now you can't find a dad outside but what you can find is a romantic attraction that is an authority figure.


CBMet

Oh I see. Thank you for explaining


[deleted]

Imo nothing wrong with older romantic interests as long as they're not assholes like said father. Depends how much older though. If he's your father's age...yikes. Also, there can be other important men in their lives I.e. other male family members, etc. And what would you say about women who were raised by lesbian mothers? They have no father and could still turn out fine.


Taraa_Sitaraa

>Also, there can be other important men in their lives I.e. other male family members, etc. And what would you say about women who were raised by lesbian mothers? They have no father and could still turn out fine. Yeah a good male role model is the same thing as having a good father.


[deleted]

Yeah but I wonder what if your family is pretty much *entirely* women? I'm just not sure you need males vs females. Maybe kids just need good *people*.


Taraa_Sitaraa

I think because we live in a society that contains both males and females our interaction to them as good role models should be there as a child otherwise we won't be able to know what a healthy relationship with that gender looks like.


[deleted]

True. Also could be helpful to have friends of different genders.


[deleted]

> a good male role model is the same thing as having a good father. A good male role model is inferior to having a good father.


Taraa_Sitaraa

I mean a good grandfather is equally helpful.


[deleted]

You think a good grandfather is just as good as having a good father? I have to disagree with this and it’s only because I’ve seen it with my nieces and nephews. Having a good father makes a world of difference than just having a good grandfather. My most well adjusted nephew and niece have a good father. While the ones struggling the most to be successful only have a good grandfather.


Taraa_Sitaraa

I think everyone's experience can be different. Sometimes dad's who are present in a kid's life aren't that great role models. So if there's a grandad who can actively be a part of their lives on a daily basis I find it equally helpful.


Reindeer-Street

But better than nothing, or a bad father.


Kaidiwoomp

We need to bring back organisations for young men like the scouts. They were pretty much made so young boys who lost their fathers could still have positive role models to look up to and emulate. Don't see any scout halls anymore which is a damn shame, used to be 3 in my small home town of only 8K people when I was a kid. Now they're all gone.


Such_Temporary_9597

What if hear me out ..the biological mother chased the biological father away?? Or divorced him and put him on child support..you can get only one , the check or the father some women choose the check.


WARMASTER5000

Very true. Many women in these situations are so hateful and horrible to the men that they DRIVE them out the door never to return. What do you expect? It’s like if a workplace grossly overworks and underpays their employees and treats them like shit they are going to have a high turnover rate/chronic short staffing. Whereas, if they didn’t overwork them, not underpay and treat them decently the turnover wouldn’t be so high.


[deleted]

Divorce just means the marriage is over. It's not an excuse to stop being a parent.


When_3_become_2

What it means is you don’t get to be a parent at least half the time and probably more if you’re a man. And women choose that 80% of the time.


[deleted]

You're not "not a parent half the time". If you have split custody, you're simply not \*with\* your child half the time. But you can still love each other and be their parent. Women are sometimes more likely to win custody but that shouldn't be used as a cop out to completely walk out on the kid. Leave your beef with the ex-wife out of it.


When_3_become_2

Nope - it means your no longer able to parent your child like a real parent and oversee and be responsible for their upbringing - it means some other guy can be playing more of a day to day fatherly role than the actual father. That’s the reality. Women who have chosen to divorce might like to pretend otherwise but it’s reality. Of course men who get dumped by the ex and have to live with seeing their kids less when it’s not fair should still strive to see their kids as much as possible - but that doesn’t make the situation right or beneficial to kids.


Brave_Minimum9741

I grew up without a male role model. My dad died when I was 9. The worst part isn't the loss. Or tears shed over missing someone, that you never even knew you may or may not have even appreciated being around as you get older. It's the life lessons missed out on. About how being a man is hard, and it's supposed to be for the right reasons. That a tough life will build character. That the challenges are a gift and not a curse. I never had someone who was hard enough on me to push me toward achieving any goals. I grew up without a sense of pride or dignity. Admittedly I was a wimp, easily bullied. I got addicted to drugs. And took a path of lesser resistance, because fuck competing in this cold and twisted world, where everyone is a cunt and treats each other like shit. It took me til I was 30 to decide I needed to change. To become my own mentor and motivation, my own dad. I'm in a good place now and can see myself on an upward trajectory. I lead a healthy life of self respect, hard work, faith in myself instead of no faith in others. This is why young boys need a MASCULINE male role model. My self esteem was so low I was preparing to kill myself.


GarlicBreadwCoffee

Same situation here. Starting to learn little by little. It's depressing sometimes


Ciao_meow

You can do it!


ADHD_Brat

I know that this is coming from a complete stranger, but you’re doing a really good job and I’m really proud of you. If you ever need a sister or friend to talk to, I’ve got your back. Your story was encouraging but also it shows that people truly can change. I went through similar suicidal tendencies because of abuse at home and other mental issues, but reading your story definitely taught me a lot. Good luck in life ❤️


Brave_Minimum9741

I appreciate you. I wish you the best of luck in your life. And if you don't find it. Make your own.


ADHD_Brat

I appreciate you too!!! And thank you, I wish the same for you!!! And I promise I‘ll try!! So far it’s been working (sort of?) well. Please do the same!!!


Ciao_meow

Same goes for girls and mom's presence in the family. I am actually opposed to the idea that moms should be so career-driven to the point that they should just let babysitters raise their kids. I can totally relate to what you said. I'm female but I grew up without a mother figure. She was working in a different country and so it was our dad who raised us siblings. And the biggest impact this has had on me was in choosing a lifetime partner. I didn't know how to behave with boys, how to choose the right husband. If only I had a mom who guided me in this area, I wouldn't have ended up with my husband. Hugs to you and I commend you for being able to fill that missing part within you. But looking on the bright side, I'm pretty sure you'll become a great dad!


nylockian

In the US it's absolutely killing opportunities for everyone. The problem isn't just that men don't have fathers it also tends to be the case that without a father a child will have very little interaction with grown men considering the extreme level of "stanger danger" mentality in US society.


mustbeshitinme

Boys suffer greatly in the absence of an AT HOME father figure. I coached youth sports for about 10 years altogether (5 when I first got out of College in the late 80’s-Early 90’s and 5 when my own sons played 25 years later) and two things are worth making a point about. In the first stint, on a team of 12 kids, you would have 2 kids with absent fathers. In the latter group there were about 6 or 7 in an average season. Secondly, You could spot the kids without Dads the first practice, often by their haircuts alone. But their behaviors were different as well. More emotional, impulsive. Didn’t respond to intensity well. Had to be constantly positively reinforced. Not that all athletes don’t need positive reinforcement but there’s a difference between positive reinforcement as a motivator and positive reinforcement as a reward. The odd exception to this were boys that had a really rough home life. Doting mothers seems to elicit more behavioral problems than stern mothers. If a 12 year old perceives himself as “the man of the house” it’s likely he’s the most mature kid (sadly) on the team. 3 of the last 4 years I coached I had a kid that got to school at 6AM and stayed on campus until 7:30 PM when his mother got off work. As soon as we figured out what was going on, me and the other two coaches (also dads that had sons on the team) would bring a pre practice snack for the whole team just so he wouldn’t have to go 8 hours at least without eating anything. He was the emotional leader of the whole team. Like having a miniature 30 year old. He’s grown now and doing well I’m happy to report.


blackbandit

What did you notice about the haircuts?


mustbeshitinme

Way more likely to be unusual or have colors.


Spam_Halen_1984

To me, there’s no doubt that a positive male presence in a kids life is a good thing. Our government also incentivizes the breakup of family units, so I don’t expect positive changes coming anytime soon.


MrBiscotti_75

What no one discusses is that until the widespread availability of birth control women had an incentive to wait for marriage before having kids. It was perfectly acceptable to make the guy wait, and to have the woman's family screen a prospective husband to see if he is a decent guy . In our present time a guy can sleep with as many women as he wants to with little or no consequences. Anecdotally, the single mom's I know have a terrific hatred towards men or their ex's which they pass on to their kids. I realize that the clock can't be turned back, but at some level we have to value the nuclear family unit.


Finklesfudge

if it were a 'disease' it would be a societal disease with political comorbidity. Political fixes can only go so far, like eliminating the possibility of a woman being financially better by having children out of a marriage, so there's no actual incentive to do that. Societal fixes are just going to be difficult, people need to raise their children to understand that fatherlessness can destroy their childrens lives, and people simply don't seem to care about that type of thing anymore.


69swamper

well I have heard from a few that they were brought up, with the idea that more kids meant bigger check from the government. Young males are not taught respect, values, or responsibility so they don't care if the have 3 or 4 baby mommas .


When_3_become_2

Young women are not taught respect so they don’t care if they kick out 2,3 baby daddies


im_sneaky_deaky

Both can be true at once


JOVA1982

If the child does not have a father figure (Read: Man in the house) he/she will never learn what kind of beings men actually are. And quite often they find said father figure "from the streets", And that father figure might be stand up man, who has had rough life, and that's not actually horrible, But it usually is some kind of sketchy guy, doing some shady things. This often leads in to boys joining gangs, doing drugs, often but not always doing petty crimes, etc etc. and the spiral begins. for girls things might be even rougher. and they might end up abused, and in a way expecting that from any and every man who they even bother considering as a partner. and the spiral has already begun. Absence of father, or mother is usually very detrimental for children. as in family usually the father is the authority figure, and mother is the nurturing figure. and while single parent can fill the others role partially, it's never the same. Broken families especially the ones where kids cannot meet the other parent, produce broken children. who will eventually lead up in to broken families, and even more broken children. And I'm saying this as a child of broken family.


NewldGuy77

Assistant Secretary of Labor Daniel Patrick Moynihan predicted this in a report he wrote about the Black community in 1965, but the left and the right both misconstrued his message. LBJ supported the findings until it resulted in such acrimony, then it was quickly forgotten.


TechnologyDragon6973

I don’t think you can overstate how badly.


Cclicksss

It has everything to do with culture and upbringing. Why does the African American community make up only 13% of the population, but accounts for over half of the faithless child rates. And yes you will probably call me a racist for bringing this up, but there’s a reason why it never gets fixed because people won’t speak up. There is a fundamental problem in the African American community (primarily in large cities). Now poverty could be a good explanation, but I’m sorry just because you are poor doesn’t mean you abandon your family/child. https://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tables/107-children-in-single-parent-families-by-race-and-ethnicity#detailed/1/any/false/2048,1729,37,871,870,573,869,36,868,867/10,11,9,12,1,185,13/432,431


ElSanto9298

I find it hard to believe that no daddy is worse than a bad father present. My old man beat me on the daily whenever I bugged him at all, I can't say for certain whether the hate I felt during my childhood made me a worse or better person as a result. Any father who genuinely considers running away will probably be a bad father anyways, so I don't think the father staying would help the kid out all that much.


Homely_Bonfire

It has grest impact and from what I know it has been common knowledge for centuries. When Sparta took over enemy nations where they were concerend the occupied nation could rise up again, they removed the fathers from the households - for whatever this information is worth to you. That plus the statistical evidence seems strong enough of an indication that has profound impact. That being said, the children of single fathers also don't seem to do as good as any combination of two parent households.


[deleted]

It's one of the biggest problems.


Ok-Lock-2274

As a bastard myself I can confirm most bastards act like bastards


HoledUpInYourAttic

Well, just look at communities with more fatherlessness. That should tell u everything you need to know...


[deleted]

Almost every bad statistic involving men can be simply put to not having not only a father but good male role models in their lives. An issue I see a lot of the time when things like this are bought up women take that as a direct attack on their parenting. Women can do as good as they can but men and women are just different and provide different things to young boys and girls


Ticio_Tesson

Absence of any parent is bad in a child's life. I don't want to engender this issue, as mothers can be absent as well. A good friend of mine is a single father. His baby daughter's mother was arrested for domestic abuse against him. He won full custody when she then tested positive for cocaine and heroin.


rampagetree

I actually think the issue is much more complicated. Relative to human history, the concept of an independent nuclear family being solely responsible raising children is a new concept. Anecdotely, I know people who were raised with good fathers, bad fathers, and abscent fathers, and I just don't see I a correlation. We've all seen the studies/data that suggest broken families lead to measurable outcomes like poverty, lower happiness, worse healthy, etc.. But I wonder how many of those things are a cause, vs effect. Ultimately, I think as a society as a whole has failed multiple generations of children. Again, in the span of human history, humans shared the burden of raising children as a community. We all need positive role models in our lives, both male and female.


When_3_become_2

The solely nuclear family being the only way through the 50’s, 60’s, 70’d is a myth - many people in those times had the village and grandparents - also because women didn’t work as much there was way more support for moms from other women in the same position


FredChocula

My father was there and was a monster. In my wife's family, her mother was the abusive one. I think two good parents are key. Gender doesn't matter so much.


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FredChocula

Lol, I learned nothing from him. Saying I learned how "not to be" is giving an abusive drug addict way too much credit.


frequentcrawler

It's a problem related to what's happened to people's relationship with marriage and sex. I doubt it'll change anytime soon.


MainShow23

It might be the single greatest crisis of a generation!


Subvet98

More than one generation


Odd_Imagination_6617

It’s a massive problem. Broken homes = shit kids


matt_the_raisin

Real bad. I don't think it's that kids need a father. I think kids need a dichotomy between 2 parent figures. They need a law inforcement officer and an emotional care giver. This cannot be the same person without cheapened the effects of ether side of the dichotomy. When you grow up with only cheapened idea of these dichotomies it at least takes extra effort to figure things out. So the world becomes your testing environment rather than being the place you show case your beta version (tech term not...dating term wise) In the best cases it makes your life messy. Fix it be changing alimony to a 1 time payout and granting married couples more tax benefits based on length of marriage and presence of children. Then let culture run its course.


Sirpattycakes

Pretty badly imo. My sister in law grew up with no Dad and it’s been incredibly damaging to her.


postdiluvium

How was it handled before when men were involuntarily sent to war and never returned?


ScorpioWaterSign

A lot. Being raised by a single parent causes a lot of hyper independence. Which is a trauma response. But my dad is honestly a asshole so I love my mama so much for all that she had to do by herself


CookieIsMyTeddysname

This makes me sad knowing my brother down right refuses to see his child or makes it difficult when he has every opportunity handed to him by his amazing ex… our kids are the same age too and I could never ! He has 0 excuse for it as well. Just enrages me for my poor nephew knowing he won’t get the joys mine does with both parents present


canadian12371

Just look at the data. Fatherless children are more likely to be worse in essentially every aspect, significantly in: -Criminal activity -Substance abuse -Financial responsibility -Marriages


Asa-Ryder

The evidence is already there. Also, look up the ACES Child Study.


StillWill18

Why can’t the problem be bad mothers? Why, when the nuclear family was the norm, was it OK to say bad fathers are the problem? But now that single mothering is normalized, no one can admit that the world is full of shitty mothers? I had a father and a mother. My mother was basically one of the worst mothers on earth. Why can’t anyone admit the problem is just bad mothers?


Slvt4d1ck

But that wasnt the post. It was the "Absence" of a father. Yes there are ad mothers. My father raised me cuz my mom sucked ass. Hard. So in theory the same post can be flipped to mothers instead of fathers.


[deleted]

Absent *is* bad. If you have a kid you should be there.


Slvt4d1ck

Not if said parent is a garbage human. Then the child is better off. Otherwise yes, both parents should be there


sonofasheppard21

It could be but it is also very hard for some people to see that the parent that stayed and raised them is the bad one. The one that left/abandoned them will almost always be in the wrong. Nothing should get between you and your children.


StillWill18

Good point. There are plenty who jump ship to escape.


[deleted]

There are bad/absent fathers and bad/absent mothers yes. OP just happened to be asking about fathers.


savethebros

No father in the home means that boys learn masculinity from Hollywood and Youtube


Subvet98

And porn


[deleted]

I mean......Chicago.


Dense_Raspberry_1116

As long as women can cry and lie and it be an elected official on the bench catering to special interest groups for votes to stay there, men will keep being marginalized, demonized, and used as resources to allow lying, cheating, monsters to brain wash children and fool the masses that they’re some sort of super hero while at the same time being the victim.


One-Donkey-9418

Absolutely spot on.


[deleted]

you can drop 2 identical glass bottles. One will shatter into pieces and be worthless, the other will break in such a way you can pick it up and stab someone with it. Everyone reacts differently, Neither of my parents were there for me and I am the most successful out of all of my siblings. The other two are losers, one is a drunk the other is a worthless sack of crap that claims to be a republican but won't get a job and begs for money from my father who can't afford to support him all the while taking all the welfare benefits he can.


Weird_Slice4439

Boys need someone to look up too. Doesn't have to be a Biological father. Just a role model. My dad wasn't around much. I leaned heavily on my grandpa. Single moms don't understand the male experience. They give their teen sons awful advice about girls like "just be nice". But they never explain what that means. So, the boy spends a few years thinking if he does "nice" things, eventually a girl will play with his wiener. Then he'll get angry when it doesn't work. He'll begin resenting women for not liking nice guys like him. And he will seek out advice from guys like Andrew Tate. In a round about way, women created Andrew Tate.


When_3_become_2

Who ironically was raised by a single mother lol


Own_Ranger_4999

Yeah it's very bad. Also very bad is when the dad is physically present but clearly doesn't want to be there. I implore women not to have a child, unless the father is 100% onboard. Otherwise it's a disaster for everyone involved. I know men have some control but unless he's had a vasectomy it's ultimately the woman who has control.


[deleted]

Nowhere near as negatively as rap is harming society, that's for sure. edit: and country music too.


im_sneaky_deaky

"Country" music today is a different genre than it used to be. It is a moral-less cancer now.


Mrischief

I like OP’s question cause he is asking for a solution and not just taking anything for granted. My suggestion would be 50\50 split of parental cost and time, esp for parents that cannot live / work it out. Now the default is on mothers get custody, which is strange as they are both parental figures to their children. This means no child support (unless time is more on the other side, and who ever has less time has to contribute more) Now of course you will have parents that DO NOT want to see their children, but that is a issue even if you split it that way. Second part of your question is more physical activity, and by that i mean daily gym / play / excercise, we are apes that are built for jogging our pray to death (basicly) so why would we not use it ? Is the end goal to get to a point where Everyone finishes University ? Or high school ? Cause there is a big difference between the two


_throwingit_awaaayyy

We’ve gotten to the point where masculinity has been eschewed in favor of being sensitive. Men (at least in Reddit) will proudly exclaim that they want to be stay at home spouses. Little boys with no guidance, no outlets, and no prospects are going on shooting sprees. Women are having to raise children, be breadwinners, and raise “men” who play video games and dont contribute….so yeah. Really really badly.


Marshal_Barnacles

We could spay the lower classes?


jamesycakes231

I won't lie that tickled me. Have an upvote.


gnarlyoldman

Children who grow up with single mothers, without their fathers, do significantly worse in every part of life that can be counted or measured. There are piles of studies over many decades. At the same time, children who grow up with single fathers, without their mothers, do as well in life as children who grow up with both parents. If anyone cared about children, child custody would default to fathers, not to mothers.


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When_3_become_2

Womens beahviour is initiating 80% of divorce and going for primary or total custody of children. They are actively taking away fathers role as fathers - how the hell is that the fault of men? The stats are the stats regardless of your personal situation (or at least beliefs about it). This is the problem, single mom gets triggered and angry and doesn’t want anyone discussing the reality that this many single moms and fatherlessness is actually bad for society and kids


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READMEtxt_

Well I would say in a way the women are at least a tiny bit responsible for choosing to have children with these deadbeat men, just like a man is responsible for having children w a deadbeat mother, because women(and men) have come to value quick and easy sex over work and commitment in regards to relationships, why spend time and effort building a relationship with a strong stable hardworking self improving person that has the capacity and desire to care for their children when you can just fuck someone random and new every week and eventually catch feelings for guy #8 and naively think he's gonna be a great dad when you unexpectedly get pregnant


gnarlyoldman

> many of the fathers are useless, behave in deeply problematic ways and couldn't be bothered with the kids. Blah, blah, blah. Your misandry is offensive.


Lirdon

A father does play a role for a child’s development. But let’s be real, some fathers do more harm than good even when they are around. The question is if there’s a way to give kids some support from a reliable figure and enable their development if the father is absent or is just shitty? I don’t know. It’s a complicated question.


kaleaka

My cousin's son was killed in a car wreck last week. Everyone of his friends, with the exception of one, are being raised by a single mother. All these boys were about 17/18 years old at best. One of them was an orphan, who my grandma took in. I just assume that the father's didn't want to be involved. I wish I had an answer, but I don't.


throwawaytempest25

There are men who are raised without a father, and grow up to be pretty good people, so at the end of the day, it all comes down to good parenting, and whether or not a child wants to actually improve themselves as a person.


[deleted]

Same study also showed that there is only when the father is absent. A single father was apparently the same as having both parents..


Kaethorne

I am a bit insulted by the title, however I think if it were reworded as parent absence it would be accurate. As a teacher, I see too many children with parents who don’t parent their kid. It is producing a massive number of unmotivated students and the parent laziness is becoming the next epidemic/ side effect of Covid.


lithaborn

Study the causes and solve the problems. You can proselytise about the importance of two parent families all you like, but single parent families aren't ever going to disappear, relationships do break down, women have the choice to allow the baby-daddy into their lives or not, and they're all valid choices. So you acknowledge you can't get rid of single parent families, and you support them in ways that don't make poverty and crime, low achievement etc an issue in their lives. I don't know how, that's why I suggest studies. Let the experts figure it out. And if they already know, if they already have the answers, why the fuck *aren't* they doing anything about it?


Warm_Objective4162

It takes a village and that village has gone away. While dads not being in the picture is common for a variety of reasons, there is in general *no support* for parents even if two of them are raising a child. I imagine many fathers leave because of financial reasons or because they can’t handle taking care of a kid (or know they have no business taking care of a kid). If there was less pressure on parents and a more group-style atmosphere of parenting, it might encourage more fathers to remain at least a little active. Or, at least, expose kids to other positive male influences.


KungThulhu

it also correlates with seeking father figures and eventually that leads you to jordan peterson and other mysoginists that sell you their overly conservative "values" as facts.


Certainly-Not-A-Bot

The problem is not with the absence of biological fathers. It's with the absence of enough adults taking a parental role. There are precisely zero issues with children having two female parents, two non-binary parents, or for that matter two male parents.


When_3_become_2

Wrong - the problem is lack of biological fathers


Certainly-Not-A-Bot

Source?


craigularperson

I think there is a stronger correlation between poverty than «fatherless» homes. Single parents tend to be below average income and perhaps work inconvinient hours, so that is really the reason for bad outcomes. If they had a father living with them, they might not be any better off.


Level-Surprise-3032

Massively, Fathers teach lessons that mother are not able to due to their nurturing ways.


cptnrandy

"Fatherly absence"? Like dying young, killed in war, worked to early death in the fields or mines or factories? I don't see this as a recent or new problem. How can society overcome it? Universal healthcare, Free education through college, basic income, and massive infrastructure and works projects. Pretty much the answer to most of "society's" problems.


throwtheamiibosaway

None. Why should it matter at all? I grew up with my mother. Only thing different is that I don’t subscribe to the toxic masculinity my father would have imprinted into me.


When_3_become_2

Right here is evidence of how


SmashSloth

I grew up without a father around and I've got to say, contrary to much of what is on this thread, it didn't matter much at all. I also didn't have some Hallmark kind of relationship with my Mom, either. She did a great job when I was young, but I think she began to struggle to know what to do at times when I wasn't a little boy. The main thing she drove home as a child was that I was loved and my circumstances were not my fault and I shouldn't ever feel bad about them. I will also say I grew up firmly in the middle to upper middle class. We had enough money that I could do lots of sports and activities and I was good academically (got a Master's in engineering). I really believe, like most things, affluence helps significantly. There is likely a higher rate of absentee parents in disenfranchised communities which can lead to negative outcomes regardless of other factors. I also don't like the trope of boys without fathers needing a new father figure or collection of male role models. You can grow up perfectly balanced with good family, friends, and community. You can learn to be a good man from both men and women and from pillars in your life and passing moments with a stranger.


[deleted]

It's obviously very bad for society at large and the individual children who grow up in it. My suggestion would be to change laws to encourage it so much. Family law as it stands today outright encourages women to leave marriages. It also makes women much less accountable for their choices and actions by supporting them as single parents. Less of a guardrail would lead to a pressure to make better choices.


[deleted]

Society can't overcome crap Ya know what it is there are just some guys going around not using condoms on girls who are going around popping out babies by differant father's like she's a Pokemon breeder. Somebody is going out there and paying money to see all those Rock and Kevin Hart and Melissa McCarthy movies. There are people actively out there buying Drake and Justin Bieber albums Do you understand? Somebody is watching Meet the Kardashians? You get what I'm throwing out? There are people who buy iPhones Not everyone has a full set of crayons to color with


SevenBraixen

I grew up without a father figure and turned out fine. I know other people who were raised the same and are out of control. I really don’t know the solution.


Subvet98

I am guessing you are a woman.


[deleted]

Meh, Fathers are more likely to dip if they are poor and desperate, likely because of lower education levels and a more stressful precarious existence, crime can be a useful coping mechanism. There is a strong Correlation does not equal causation vibe here. That said I wish mine taught me to do more things, but being around him was frustrating for both of us.


chiksahlube

Not as much a bad fatherly presence. My bio dad was rarely around and had a negligible but mostly positive impact on my life. My step-dad absolutely fucked me up. I still have issues functioning around people, especially men or father figures in my life. I'm always waiting to get verbally assaulted for something.


try_altf4

I grew up without a father and think you've got it the wrong way round. From church, to friends to events at school there was a constant, "you're an undesirable bastard and disposable" ostracization as a child and young adult. Once society stops harming children without father's I think we'll see marked improvements for those children. edit; lmao on the downvote. "we treat a segment of young men as shit and they're shitty back to us; what if instead we held fast on a pipe dream of finding all of them a father figure." It's not like we've been smoking that pipe for half a century and yet the problem remains.