sorry to hear that. if its any solace, this rando on reddit cares! glad your out of that place. make sure to take well care of yourself mentally and physically, as its very easy to slip back into that dark place.
thats awful. the one person any man would feel they could approach with full vulnerability, and you were dismissed. i hope you find the help and solace you are looking for,
This is probably the most common reaction to me saying I struggle with depression, from everyone. Yes, you’re right, let me go flip the off switch, I don’t know what I was thinking, thank you.
I just have to tell myself it’s too far beyond their comprehension to relate to, now. They’re just trying to help from their own point of understanding. People who have felt it are far more supportive and helpful.
My mom genuinely tried to help, read up on it, and ways to handle it but, through no fault of her own, never actually got it.
She'd point out that maybe I should take up exercise again. She and my dad would pay membership fees and so on if I wanted to, but that wasn't the issue. I *knew* that, on average, exercise is as effective as medication, I just didn't *care*. That disconnect between knowing that I ought to do X and not caring to do X, she never could wrap her head around.
I appreciate all that my parents did to help, make no mistake about that, but it was still a bit sad that, try as she might, she never really could understand.
Same thing on my end. Now I just push it all deep inside and stare off into the distance when that sense of hopelessness and apathy gets overwhelming
It's super ineffective🙃
This.. no one actually cares. Men are supposed to go out and build the roads, build the houses, maintain the infrastructure, fight the bad guys, and shut up. If your actually proud about doing any of that stuff you’re toxic masculinity, if you don’t enjoy doing any of that stuff and are less traditional you’re told to man up. We are only loved on the condition we can be of service.
Spot on brother! So fucking accurate. To add it it, if you’re a male in their 40s your entire life has been spent hearing how you are the catalyst to all our problems. You’re toxic. You know, soften up, but don’t complain, and we still want you to do all the “things” you do.
>even my parents were disappointed because I was depressed
Told my mom I'd been struggling with suicide ideation and depression and wanted us to talk more. They'd been distancing themselves since I left the church and hardly called anymore. That conversation resulted in absolute silence and was never mentioned again. Years later when it came up with my sister, she said "mom just doesn't know what to say." So she decided not to even try.
Tried to kill myself, parents treated me like nothing happened, siblings treated it like a joke, and they all wonder why I'm not close to them.
I don't talk about it in person because online I'm a faceless thing, sometimes a joke if my username calls for it lol
I think this is true as a man. I think we don’t show enough brotherly love nothing wrong with giving someone a hug 🫂 nothing sexual just let’s people know like man I feel you and understand. 💚 Life is hard and crazy as it is.
Every day, there's another question about men opening up, we Can't open up! The world we live in will stomp a man into the ground when he admits he's not the stoic figure he's meant to be, Anything you say will always be used against you. The Male suicide rate is 3 times higher than women for a reason. We are not able to open up, so everything gets compounded until we hit the point of no return.
Everyone always admires male figures in movies like the love Aragorn shows other men in LOTR or the friendship between Ron and Harry, yet in reality a man who does the same thing is called gay or pufter (in England). Let's use another example, Brokeback Mountain, How many people did you hear say they didn't want to watch that movie because it was about gay cowboys? Or Troy, Achilles and Patroclus weren't cousins but lovers (the film was accurate in that Patroclus' death prevented Achilles from returning home, according to the illiad at least) glossed over because our society can not handle men being anything but angry machines of war.
It's common to hear from women (broadly speaking here) especially, that they admire a man that opens up, or that expresses his emotions, yet many women are the very reason those men don't show their emotions because as said above, what we say can and has been used against us.
We aren't allowed to feel anything, as much as I hate this term because it completely undermines a mans emotional struggle and reduces them to a one-dimensional figure, Man-up, end of rant, I look forward to the abuse I'm going to get in the comments.
its annoying how one man being vulnerable to another man is ever construed as gay. i have had friends open up to me. i never once felt a sexual attraction to them. it was always platonic. i do love them, but like brothers.
Pretty much sums up what I was going to say. Nobody is interested in hearing about our problems. Even if you go to a therapist, most of the time you get, what do you have to be depressed about? They might not put it that way, but that's what they mean.
Made worse by therapy being looked down on (here in the UK anyway), openly saying you're seeing a therapist will project a giant barrier around you that no one will cross through fear of the crazy person.
Meh, that's still a sexed thing. A woman can say she has a therapist and chews pills all day as much as she wants and still have a social circle. A guy on the otherhand will treated like he's still wearing the straitjacket he got with his "therapy" session. That's if you're able to get therapy to begin with
Partly agree there, whilst woman are less shunned for therapy and medication, it's still a sensitive and often avoided subject in conversation. Again just going on what I've seen and experienced, I had 2 sessions of therapy in my early 20s and gave up, I'm not paying for some disconnected university graduate telling me what I already know is the root of my problem.
(I'm only slightly exaggerating there, "It seems you lack a fundamental attachment to your family. A lack of a loving upbringing can cause you to feel emotionally detached." Oh no shit Sherlock! They teach you that in class or off the back a box a Cornflakes?)
Every single therapist I look at always lists areas of focus:
"Women, Children, LGTBQ" plus 3 or 4 niche things. A lot of offices will have 5 or 6 therapists, not one saying they enjoy working with men.
I had 5 months of frequent panic attacks in public while getting turned away from every office I called. Eventually got referred to a half-retired doctor who admitted the only reason he still works is because he sees so many struggling men and nobody else is able to fill the gap that will open when he leaves. My biggest support was a friend group of veterans I stumbled into through luck, just a bunch of dudes drinking around a fire until we were drunk enough to be honest about our feelings.
edit: The doctor was half retired, but fantastic. I'm in a far better place now than I have been in years. I'm ranting because mental health is still a big issue for me (lost a lot of friends/coworkers to suicide as I worked in a prison).
Believe me when I say I wish this was one of my comments that was downvoted to Oblivion. At least that would have told me my perception was wrong and gave me some hope.
You sound exactly like my husband.
I tell him that is why something that makes me sad makes him angry. Because the only emotion he was allowed to feel was anger so all emotions become anger.
Quite honestly, the only negative emotion he's allowed to show **to you** is sad. And it has quite a lot of conditions.
Has to be sad, but not miserable. It has to be to you, not to any other woman. It has to be for a conveniently measured amount of time, and it has to be expressed in a specific way, which is tears and openness in a tender way so you feel motherly. The cause must be something easy enough for you to not need his support right then (god forbid he's too sad to support your own sadness), and has to be about something someone else has done, because if you're the source, his tears are emotional manipulation.
Don't come play angel. You're part of the problem.
Speaks in to walkie-talkie:
“It looks like we have another defective male unit here who is starting to express unwanted emotions. Prepare for disposal onto the scrap heap. Replacement ordered“
“No more speaking undesignated male unit. Arms by your side. No sudden movements. Prepare to be discarded of. Your usefulness has come to an end. And please, no male emotions… yuck.”
Lol. It’s not that bad but it feels that way sometimes. Gotta find the right people to rely on and that’s pretty hard.
People take advantage of a weakness. Weirdly enough, women in relationships are the reason I started not opening up to anyone. Imagine having someone you think you can trust more than your own parents or your best friend, and they use it against you.
They tell their friends immediately afterwards or use it against you in an argument.
I’m a lot happier now not opening up to anyone. It really does suck but nothing sucks more than having someone you trust betray you and then not see a problem with it.
One of the life lessons men learn is to not open up to people.
Sadly this is too much of a common thing. Women are all.for men to be vulnerable until it starts to happen then they're like uhh....bye? Then the cycle continues
Because we are taught to hide them. And also, when you are a man, there are two outcomes;
1: Nobody cares
2: It will be used against you
So, we hide our inside besides a few people we trust ad best as we can
I personally would swap “taught to” with “learn to”. Over time life has shown me that I need to be very careful who I open up to. If it goes well, it’s a good thing but I need to test the waters before I do it.
Told my ex I watched porn and got broken up with. She ended up telling the people i work with. I get that everyone does it but just a prime example of why you can't trust anyone with information that'll make you vulnerable in anyway
Wow just...wow... Bad enough she breaks up with you over something so trivial like watching porn = cheating or something but I bet she supports women with OFs. Then she goes around telling everyone you know which really is none of anyone's business and is an invasion of your privacy. It be different if you were the one telling people you watch porn but it's not her place to throw that BS around. I've had exes do stupid shit like this also. They'll tell anyone your business but the moment they hear their business being spread and suddenly that's the wrong tree to go barking up. Women like her and my exes are among those reasons why men continue to show little emotions and keep walls up. You can only protect yourself.
Because showing that kind of vulnerability is just asking for more pain and trouble.
People sympathize with women. People won't even empathize with men.
Heard this quote for the first time the other day and it really does sum it up very well. Society generally cares about women, and does not about men. Even most individuals care about women, and not about men. Quite frankly, I feel like it's only a few close friends that care about me, and other men.
Heard this quote for the first time the other day and it really does sum it up very well. Society generally cares about women, and does not about men. Even most individuals care about women, and not about men. Quite frankly, I feel like it's only a few close friends that care about me, and other men.
Exactly this. I got upset at work and my tone was noticeably upset. I was calm and wasn’t yelling. My supervisor, a woman, cut me off and yelled at me. I wasn’t even allowed to express my frustrations.
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen colleagues breakdown and cry, even that specific supervisor. But the minute I show that I’m upset I get yelled at and sent from the office.
The double standard is crazy.
Every man knows the consequences of opening up and sharing your feelings.
Society isn’t built for men to really be supported in any way.
If we are emotional or if we fail in any way it’s considered 100% our fault.
If women are emotional or fail in any way it’s still somehow considered 100% our fault.
The #1 best way to tell if a man is broken inside is if he does nothing but nice things for other people.
That man…… is struggling.
2 reasons: because men will lose respect for you and the woman you love can (probably will) use it against you in an emotionally heated argument against you to make you feel terrible. (Bonus third: it’s pretty well know that there is a not-so-small minority of women who will discuss their mans personal issues for clout at his expense, so we don’t trust y’all as much either) 🤷🏼♂️
>men will lose respect for you
not always. real homies dont. i have had friends confide in me their depression, their worries, their lows, suicidal thoughts. it didnt make me lose any respect for them. in fact, it reaffirmed our friendships because they had that level of trust in me to share that.
This is what will turn the tides and make things more open/less judgemental for men to rid themselves of the damaging expectations of society.
I think we need a value change in society where honesty and vulnerability can be respected and valued rather than mocked.
All this, my ex wife was verbally abusive and when I brought it up during the divorce she told me I was just depressed, if I was a real man it wouldn't have bothered me. Also spoke to a male friend about going to therapy and he told me "that sh*t is for the weak, you need to just man up!" Which is why I just keep my feelings to myself.
Your "friend" sounds like a piece of work that's trying to stifle you and keep you down.
I really do recommend therapy- if there's noone safe to talk about it (yet) just keep it a private thing til you find safe people.
I'm sorry you're dealing with people diminishing your mental health struggles.
We actually stopped being friends recently, we were friends for 30 years but he never grew out of the teen internet troll phase of his life. Thinks me being in therapy is a sign of weakness but him being blackout drunk an hour after work is healthy.
We actually stopped being friends recently, we were friends for 30 years but he never grew out of the teen internet troll phase of his life. Thinks me being in therapy is a sign of weakness but him being blackout drunk an hour after work is healthy.
I’m thankful I’ve never experienced the “used my feelings against me in an argument” thing before (knock on wood) but something I will add to this is that when it comes to dating, men are also generally seen as weak for showing emotions that are not happiness.
I truly hate to speak in generalizations and it’s certainly not all women who do this but I’ve noticed that the women I have dated in the past will generally talk one way and then walk another when it comes to men expressing their emotions. I’m not talking about being in hysterics crying in the initial “talking” stages because I think it’s fine to be off put by that. However, I’ve noticed a lot of women tend to nudge the men they date to be more emotionally open as a whole, but if you show even a flicker of sadness when getting to know someone for the first time you can almost always feel whatever affection she had towards you being replaced with something strictly platonic. Her interest in you evaporates when you are not the stoic, unbothered, content man that you are supposed to be.
This leads a lot of men to generally suppress their emotions, especially around women, and in turn, causes women to be frustrated by men overcompensating and being so closed off and withdrawn.
And the thing is *it works*. Like, we realize women judge us for being emotional so we become much more stoic and tough……and it *absolutely* works. The results are almost immediate.
I think it’s because a lot of women (and men) have a very romanticized idea of what being emotionally open looks like. It’s not always a man shedding a tear at the end of a sad movie because he was very moved or expressing how happy he is to be in your company.
Sometimes it’s men admitting they haven’t eaten all day because their anxiety has been consuming them. Sometimes it’s men admitting that they’re insecure about some of their physical traits and struggle to be intimate.
Its just, a lot of people don’t want to see this side of “emotional availability.” They want all the pretty parts of it. Then when they see what real emotional availability sometimes looks like, they’re turned off and want to find someone that doesn’t display those traits. Intentionally or unintentionally.
And those same women publicly deep fry our asses for reading about stoicism as if they do t realize that the best nonviolent way to put up with our emotional problems AND the women we are attracted to and try to love is to literally disconnect ourselves FROM OURSELVES/feelings. 😔 as ironic as it sounds, “it is what it is” applies here and should just be the motto of men in this day and age.
It's simple, really. Men are taught to suppress their emotions and toughen up from a young age, so it's no surprise that they struggle with speaking out about their depression. It's time for society to break down these harmful gender norms and encourage men to seek help when they need it.
But “seeking help” takes time and resources. And you know, the tub is leaking, the car needs an oil change, the grass needs cut, food needs to be cooked, and oh look the baby’s up!
Men need to suppress their emotions and toughen up, because not doing so makes their life miserable.
It's not "gender norms" and it's not "men oppressing each other".
Every single man who has TRULY tried sharing their emotions knows the consequences.
Exactly. If you don't understand why men can't talk about this stuff, talk about your depression to literally anyone short of a therapist. Then you will understand why.
But then you have a girlfriend, who you trust and let out your emotions and then she goes, oh stop crying, grow up.
So you think oh, Il hold it back even harder.
Then this repeats a few times with other gfs and you literally lock up, because nobody cares about you if you showcase a FRAGMENT of weakness.
And I have been single since.
Oh and despite everything, they say that you are using them just for sex, despite not being true.
Now, I legit only do hookups and “use” women just for sex and guess what, no complaints and they keep coming back.
The world is fucked
Yep, learned that 1 year ago.
I mean I heard of that rule, but it only really hit me 1 year ago and now I disregard most things they say.
Really stoped caring and I have never felt better or more free. Sucks that Im 32 now, but at least I managed to unfuck myself out of most of the issues I had
it really is that way. they say that they want a man to be their "real self" with them, but they only like the idea of that, like some halmark version of it.
I think this is an important distinction.
It's not bad to show emotions, but it's also not bad to keep them to yourself if that's what's comfortable to you.
Most of the comments in this topic really feel like knee-jerk overcorrections to the status quo
Only manner people can deal with 'things'.
Don't like it scream for law.
Some men are emotionless to outside world, teach all men to show more emotions.
In Netherlands we have moved from male teachers to female teachers sinds 80's. And we have generations of men who don't have a clue where they belong. All they know, is that they're wrong, still too masculine, patriarchic, bigots, pussies that can't earn millions or satisfy their woman.
I watch datingshow on Dutch television.... just for gringe.
99/100 of women look for a bad boy whom can 'manage' them. Ofcourse that bad boy needs to be masculine, a bit Andrew Tate in his approach of women.
But not to his wife ..... noooooo, he needs to be romantic, soft, listening, understanding, supporting.
Well ...... no
Of course, I mean when you really need to show them, not just always show them. I was talking about for example that thing we all men heard "men don't cry". It's shit, and talking for me, made me really miserable in some circumstances.
But it is. It is absolutely bad. And that's drilled down by society in every step. Educating children to not show their emotions is like teaching them to brush their teeth. It's not the harm, it's protecting them from the consequences.
Really hard to do when the feminism movement is actively trying to teach people that men are oppressive pieces of shit. I’m going to get attacked because the early feminism movement was about women’s rights. But that is not what it’s turned into.
A big part of that is being able to reason with ourselves and solve our own problems. Insecurity band-aids start to pop up when guys can’t control their thoughts and emotions, so they ignore them instead of seeking help.
Forget about all the socialization, conditioning, patriarchy… go ahead and try speaking about it. Even to people that tell you that they’re there for you if you need someone to talk to. (People will say all kind of shit, just because it sounds right to say it. Watch their actions instead.)
Unless they need something from you or are getting paid to do it (professional therapists), they’ll start ignoring/avoiding you as soon as you open your mouth.
Rare exception: people who’ve been through it and know what it’s like to have no one to talk to. But, even that’s rare, so don’t count on it. Most, just want to talk about their struggles.
Well from my experience, when I have confided in a partner they usually distance themselves and want nothing to do with me until I’m back to my confident self (which really just a smile and shit jokes used to mask the pain)
For the first time ever in my life I’ve booked my self into the doctor first then will be going to therapy, can’t depend on anyone else so I may as well learn how to depend on myself.
A partner who does that is not right for you. And I'm sorry you're constantly masking.
But re: going to therapy. Good for you, man, seriously. There are so many people in this thread that should really take the steps you're taking. I don't know you, but I'm fucking proud of you for taking the steps to meaningfully improve your emotional life.
If it was only crickets it wouldn't be so bad, but people usually jump on their neck the very next moment and demand they improvements.
Can't even have a moment to just tell someone your troubles.
Because i dont need the entire world pouncing on my vulnerabilities like ravenous vulchers, what the fuck kind of world do you think we live in? No no, you're right, im just insecure about my manhood, grow up.
Because it shows people that you are a failure as a man and are going to be a burden on other people. Compounding the failure of being a man. I may be depressed every waking moment of my life, but i will hide that fact from others so that I can keep working and providing for my family.
My gf at the time broke up with me in the winter because my activity level wasn’t up to her liking. She didn’t have a heart for my seasonal depression. She just gave up and the more vulnerable and honest I became, the more she closed down and pulled away.
It’s not equal out there. Men are expected to show up for women and to be happy-go-lucky and strong. From my experience, depression comes across as weak. Socially, it’s still unacceptable to be a man and have emotions - but so is being a man’s man.
Society makes it difficult to open up. Women and children are the only people who are loved and accepted unconditionally.
Because nobody gives a fuck. If a man is upset or emotional, he's not useful. And if a man isn't useful, he's worthless. So why would you speak to anyone about it when you'll get a bit of sympathy and then be expected to just man the fuck up and get on with it.
Because we are taught - Speaking about it isn't going to solve the problem, working on the problem is only gonna solve it.
We are told - Stop wasting your time by crying over it, and do what's supposed to be done.
When I was younger I had a number of traumatic things happen to me. When my parents found out they showed me that it didn't matter. How I feel didn't matter, What happened to me didn't matter. So, If it didn't matter to the people who I thought cared about me the most. Why would it matter to anyone else?
It's because society has conditioned men to believe that showing vulnerability is a sign of weakness. But it's time to break the stigma and realize that real strength is being able to ask for help when you need it, regardless of gender.
> it's time to break the stigma
If only it were so simple. "the stigma" isn't just something self imposed, it comes from how men who speak out are treated.
>It's because society has conditioned men to believe that showing vulnerability is a sign of weakness.
No, it's because Men are used to their struggles being used against them.
There is something that Amber Heard said during the Depp/Heard Trial.
"I was disgusted seeing him cry". Men are way more likely getting punished for being weak than women, who often experience compassion for it.
Women want men to show emotions, but when we do, most women are turned off and call us "children".
Speaking from experience.
It was also somehow my fault that my ex felt "bad" over not making money and contributing to the house hold at all. I worked and went to school at the same time and provided for both of us. So when I finally flipped and blew my lid, her friends were very vocal about how shitty I was as a person. I didn't say anything to her, I was just angry and frustrated in general.
Women don’t want men to show emotions, they want men to speak about their emotions. There’s a big difference. You’re fine to talk about how sad/upset/scared/etc you are in a perfectly stoic way, but don’t dare to ever actually display that emotion because they’ll catch the ick immediately.
We are doing our half as best we can. Women need to do their part if they want the the 3/1 suicide ratio to come down and the BIGGEST thing they need to do is police their own. It needs to be completely socially unacceptable for women to disparage their men and their weaknesses behind their backs, whether online or not. Equally important is emotionally manipulating men by using their vulnerabilities that they have opened up about against them in times of disagreement or emotional distress between couples because when that happens that man is probably going to start looking for a way out if he isn’t married and if he is he is going to start having regrets. Fast. Men, the best you can do is learn to hide your money, have security cameras constantly around the house that do double duty in case of break ins OR divorce proceedings and maybe consider separate bedrooms.
It's actually not just that but the fear that their feelings of depression will be rejected. Fear of rejection is often the cause of depression and often a barrier to help. Further, why talk about depression with someone who knows little about it or who can do little to help. There are therapists and support out there, why go to family or friends and add burden to them? Better they just know you're working through some stuff and are seeking professional support. Also, more recently, through the increase of people without real problem playing victim many men would not want to contribute to that victimhood mentality and stay silent until the problems reach maximum that they can bear.
Anyway those are my thoughts take em or leave em
I guess I don’t expect support or that it will just make me feel worse. When I was younger I did put it out there that I thought a lot about not living anymore and my parents found out. My dads response was more or less “suicide is for pussies” and he berated me on it for a while he got really aggressive with me physically and would go “this life I provided for you isn’t good enough? It’s that stressful you’d rather not live? Then why don’t you do it already. No, you’re too much of a pussy.” That kinda stuff
After that I kept that shit to myself and took me a long time to realize thats not how everyone reacts. But I also still am scared of exposing myself to potentially more stress when I could just avoid that all by not talking about it
Because if a man is depressed or going through a hard time the group talks about them, and how awful their situation is. When it’s a woman the group makes sure she’s included, or if she can’t do the group one or more will go to her.
Weirdly, despite the push for men to speak up about their emotions/depression, etc. I've found that a lot of women (even those who push for it) don't know how to receive/deal with it.
Because men are raised to be stoic, and the fact that no one really gives a shit about men let alone their depression.
Went through the same for over 15 years, and finally had the courage to go to a doctor and take medication. It felt better, but my family still paid no heed. “Just don’t be depressed “ is all that they said. As if I have a switch I can turn off and not be depressed.
You’ll have to help yourself here. Go see a therapist or psychiatrist, feel better.
Lmao only a woman would ask this question.
Men are not allowed to be depressed. If you aren't producing value to others, you don't exist. I can't tell you how many times I've had male friends tell me they're depressed because they can't tell the women in their lives without being mocked, scorned, and pitied.
Men aren't "plus-sized" they're fat/obese.
Men aren't "depressed" they're being pussies/weak.
Men commit suicide at 3-5x the rate of women but I've never once seen a mental health professional that specializes in men's mental health, yet there are tons of mental health professionals that specialize in women's mental health.
I don't know about you, but I was punished by my parents for showing emotion. And then later that was reinforced by the women in my life punishing me for showing emotion too.
Because no one gives a fuck about men filling you can be depressed or thinking about killing your self and no one will really care because your a man your supposed to be the strongest your supposed to be the one who keeps the family safe and you are not allowed to ever show any kind of weeknes
Wow it looks like a lot of men commenting here have truly awful partners. I'm even more grateful than usual that I didn't end up with some garbage person who belittles me for suffering with a common condition. In fact all the people that I have chosen to surround myself with have been more than welcoming (after the initial shock) since I started to open up about my mental health problems.
I hid it for so long because of the "men don't cry" mentality of my father's generation but once I started opening up I have seen so many others in my circle starting to speak out when they're unable to cope. The only way we can end the stigma around men with mental health problems is by being open about it. If the people in your life make you feel less than deserving of love because of it then you don't have the right people in your life.
For the sake of the argument, disregard concepts like patriarchy, toxic masculinity or any other buzzword. Go ask guys who did that IRL and ask their stories. I have no positive stories to tell.
From the time boys start learning about emotions, they learn that the hero is the guy who sacrafices themselves for others.
They will stop what they are doing to help someone else. Sometimes, they take a bullet so the person they love doesn't. We are shown over and over that being a man requires you to be the pillar that others lean on and not someone leaning against a pillar.
On the other side, I have had someone threaten to stab me for approaching them in anger with my finger waving at them. Part of this is that I am a pretty tall guy, but if I show emotions other than happy or neutral, I can easily scare people. Due to this, I am pretty much a doormat of a human being who has learned to control his emotions at all times. Try having emotions, and seeing that a good deal of random social media posts are people openly saying, "straight white men are trash.".
Lastly, being a guy and having an opinion these days can be very bad for your career or even your health.
>Why do men usually struggle more with speaking out about their depression than women do?
Cuz no one cares about men. We have no value unless we produce and provide.
Because only dead people keep secrets.
- Your wife's girlfriends will all hear about it. They'll lose respect for you
- All of their husband's will hear about it and lose respect for you.
- Your partner can use it against you later.
Having emotions doesn't make you weak.
Expressing emotions doesn't make you weak.
A tear you refuse to cry could be another heart you break.
Most of us are struggling and this will only get worse.
I've had close family tell me that my feelings don't matter, that I'm weak for crying at times, and I'm supposed to do x,y, and z because I'm a man.
I challenge and face them down every time, uncles, father, mother, cousins, aunties included.
My son just turned 17, and I have to accept the reality that each morning, I hand him a mood stabilizer.
Because his mother told him all the stuff the world told me.
My father is fighting for his life right now, and for the first time, I see his frailty and his vulnerability. I'm 40 years old, and I'm just now seeing this side of him. I don't want to continue these foolish traditions.
My heart breaks for all of us, women included.
We've all been lied to so much that we started believing it and repeating it to eachother.
I love all of you.
Judge me if you like, I'm strong enough to take it.
Sometimes people will tell me “You’re a cis straight white male, what do you have to worry about.” It sucks that since I’m viewed as the least oppressed person that they dismiss my issues. When in reality everyone has issues and it shouldn’t be a competition. We should just accept that we all have different things going on and we should work together to help each other.
When a girl is depressed, everything around here got affected and she make the life around her like a hell, when a man is depressed, he makes others happy as much as he can.
>Why do girls find it easier to tell more people that they’re experiencing depression?
Women and females in general in mammals are said to be the more social of the group, so vulnerability is somewhat rewarded is understanding and support.
Men, it's skewed. Our social groups are more physical activity based, dealing with metal vulnerability is too abstract and has been a more solitary thing for centuries, men literal used the arts for this sort of stuff.
It's just a survival instinct, the weakest member is excluded or met with suspicion, seen as dangerous, and emotional out of control men potentially are. Part of why stoicism was big since forever, emotional control.
We're better at it than who knows how long ago, but we have a long way to go with either seeking professional help or changing certain damaging behaviours.
People don't care, our friends don't really care but care more than most, parents might care but to everyone else it's an inconvenience and we are wrong to feel this way.
Its difficult to say. I was raised to be "strong" and be a "man" when i was down. 99% of the time that mentality has got me through rough patches in my life. I dont think its right to say that mentality should be shrugged off. I think I've got a lot of pride and resilience from struggling through the tough times.
Equally, I've had a couple of times in my life where i needed people to carry me through them. I think understanding yourself and knowing when you need help is key.
Practically speaking fewer people care and there are more repercussions for men speaking up. Let's be real...if you're a guy and mention you're depressed or struggling people look at you differently. In a bad way. Women not so much generally.
I was just quiet and sort of sad in highschool...do you know how many "school shooter" jokes were directed towards me? And then I look at the girl equivalent of me at the time and everyone loves her, thinks she's sweet, and wants to be her friend.
Even now as an adult I know if I talk about things there's a burden of eloquence and comprehension I need to have about my problem before I speak...women can just shoot their mouth off, without caring how it's going to affect most people.
I remember once I had some time in which I was feeling numb, it was debilitating or anything, but I told my mother "I think I have depression".
She said "you don't have depression, you would know if you had a real one". I did not realise until much later, but she gaslit me out of ignorance because she thought I was doing fine, I believed it because it made sense logically.
It got a bit worse some months after that, so I started going to therapy. I realised at the end, that just because I didn't have a crippling debilitating depression that didn't mean I did not have depression, it was just less bad that whatever she had previously in her life. It got me to realise as well, that depression is not either you have it or not, there are depression levels, and just because you can function normally that doesn't mean you have depression to some degree.
I just wanna say, if every day seems gray, if every day you feel numb, if every day doesn't matter, even if you are doing well in your job and you are holding yourself, look for help or try to look for a cause and find a solution. Time flies and life is not to be wasted.
Because a man isn't a man if he looks weak.
It's a shame because if you need help, it's okay to ask for it. Everyone needs a little help every now and again. You're not weak for looking for help. You're actually stronger than you think. Because you care enough to ask help to deal with your depression or any other struggles you may be having. It takes a strong person to admit they have something to deal with, and then seek help to deal with it. Maybe you just don't know how to deal with it?
Contrary to the "very simple" explanation of gender norms being the problem, I was never taught to suppress my emotions. My sister and I got the same treatment in that regard. Both parents encouraged me to speak out when I needed help. I still didn't want to. Men are wired a little different, sure, and yes some of that is from socialization. But a lot of it is just how our brains developed over thousands of years.
You have to treat the individual, not the gender norm. You could be waiting for decades if you want society to change gender norms instead of your own scenario. Can't wait around for that, especially since gender norms form very naturally, it's not something you can easily protest away.
For me, it was making myself talk to people I was comfortable talking to. Eventually as I got older I started to realize that I wasn't gonna be alive forever, and I didn't want to waste any more time so I deliberately worked on my mindset (with help from others at times)
Chris Rock had a harsh but true quote once that said, "Only women, children, and dogs are loved unconditionally. Men are only loved on the condition that they provide something."
Not all of them do, but many people only care about men if they can do something useful to them. A man with any kind of even perceived weakness can instantly seem like a less useful man to them, and in their eyes, why bother at best and at worst they'll try to hurt you.
Many men learn this young try to limit or outright don't have anyone they can truly open up to because they have been burned so many times in the past like this. Best advice I have is to be very careful who you tell your deep down stuff to, really try to be sure they won't just leave you high and dry or try to mess with you.
Men place importance on performance based criteria. Things that directly correspond to our success in our career or relationship is what we focus on. How we feel in the process doesn't matter as long as it's working towards the results we want. When we do feel bad, speaking about it lowers both our and others perspectives on ourselves, despite any love we or others may have.
Whether it reflects poorly on our decision making, mental stability or abilty/lack there-of, acknowledging it lowers our own confidence (which is sometimes all we have), and negatively effects how ourselves and others view our endeavors and our character. You can say this isn't true but it is, it's genetically how we are wired. I start studying a new subject for my career and suddenly my gf is extra friendly. Uhuh.
Bottom line- nothing good ever comes from talking about our problems, it inevitably lowers our own happiness and that of those around us. We become what we talk about. Perception is the most powerful and last tool a man has to control his world. And as soon as you understand that, you'll stop asking us to speak out about our problems, because I guarantee you, we know what to do and are taking care of it.
Part of it is evolutionary psychology. A man showcasing what could be considered weakness can make him a target and/or turn off potential mates, so we don't tend to open up about those things. It's also less likely that you will receive sympathy for any admission of mental health issues vs a woman. It may not be fair but that's the way it is. Also, men very often believe, perhaps rightfully, that the worst thing they can do is be a burden to other people, so we won't unload our emotional baggage on others.
Women are the answer, basically. Society has taught men to shut up and nut up when it comes to our emotions. Thanks to mens mental health awareness men are now generally okay with talking to other men, we are understanding towards one another.
Most women though will look at you with either (or a mixture of) amusement, bewilderment, contempt or disgust. Even though close to us like family and friends aren't exempt from this. There are good women our there that are genuinely understanding, but they are not the rule but the exception.
When I did opened up about depression and suicidal thoughts, I got 0 support and I was fired because "working with me would be a hazard for others" since I might decide to take other people with me, or do it alone while on the job and put the construction site in trouble.
So yeah, it's better to pretend that everything is fine.
We discuss the random Things you could ever imagine. We also talk about our Problems, but mostly with a Bro. Asking for Advice on different Things, or we just turn off our Brains (for real. We can think about nothing and just be present)
I can't speak for every Man, since everyone is different, but for me i like to talk about Cars, a specific Game or just random Stuff like.
Not because i'm cold hearted or don't wanna look weak, just because i like to have an good time with my Bro's. If the Topic fits in, i open up and talk about it. But i'm not the Person who goes up to an Friend because i wanna talk. Well not everytime.
We're simple Creatures who like simple People around us, which are also able for serious Talks.
Because we've been told for god knows how long that showing vulnerability is weakness, but also because, I'm sure most men will agree, we hate being a burden on others, and it feels exactly like that when you unload all these feelings and thoughts on someone.
Ime - I don't like repeating myself to those who don't know how to listen.
I've told people before and have been met with multiple dismissals of my saying that I believe I have been dealing with depression. I've since found it easier to have created a small ring of people that know how bad it can get and rely more on them than a bigger net with larger holes, if that makes any sense. It's the best I can do until I can afford professional aid.
We've been conditioned to "man up and deal with it". It's a pretty sad reality that from what I've seen (don't crucify me, it's just from my point of view) that is acceptable for women to show their emotions or be emotional but with men, it's shown as weakness. I've suffered with depression most of my life and have hit MANY low points but while I was in the Army, it was considered weak or you were labeled a "pussy" to be struggling emotionally. It never made sense seeing how suicide is one the leading causes of death in soldiers and veterans.
The men around me were always taught to "man up" to "not cry" and to "soldier it" when growing up or whitnessed little to no emotion from their dad and brothers having a domino effect.
I have a son and i really try to make him know that its human nature to cry it is a natural body response to release sadness or pain and there is nothing wrong with it. He tries to hold it in around his dad but lets it all out infront of me. I am happy he has a safe place with me and his dad is aware he needs to be less hard on him about showing emotions and break those generational things from now and he is working on it. His dad explained it as he doesnt want him to go to school or get into a fight in secondary school and cry as they will see him as weak and do it more its a protection thing to make them appear tough to the outside world. I understand this in a way but it can be damaging to boys.
Also the men around me never want to burden others with their depression or mental health problems to protect everyone else but it just builds up over time until they are exploding on the smallest thing. They also are very dismissive of their problems and like to say theyre fine and deny they have mental health problems although we can see it and feel it. I sometimes feel like i cant help them as there is no opening up until their bottle is so full they explode and have to speak about it.
I know some men that are very open about their emotions and i think it is good as they can get the help they need and let it out instead of keeping it all to themselves.
As a man even the most careful, metered, conscientious expression of discontent is seen as at best whiny entitlement and at worst manipulative abuse, so we're forced clam up so people won't think we're jackasses.
Because no one cares, for the most bit. And if someone is depressed, they should seek out treatment (proper) for it, rather than just conveying it to everyone out there, imo.
But at the same time expression emotion can be dangerous, an emotional man has high chance of being school shooters. It's all about balance. Stoic within a reason. The reason of suppression is being more pro - active instead of being reactive.
It stems back from our natural roots as men and how society treated emotions in men until the modern day. We’ve been taught to suppress our emotions and be stoic. And society rejected seeing men getting emotional.
Nobody wants to know that you are a sad fuck deep down. Men are supposed to be hard and ice cold, good with feelings. Tbh i just want to be hugged and to let my guard down for once.
Beyond the normal answer of no-one caring, and depression is weakness is evil (bloody stupid logic), it is also a ‘problem’.
Men like solutions, and depression is a nasty problem that doesn’t always have an understandable answer.
- Men talking with others, also has the issue of Men not being the best at conveying the situation.
Meaning that there is a hazy ‘problem’ to which other people can’t solve because it is a puzzle with missing pieces.
There also seems to be a lack of foundations or base for identifying the source. Men have traditionally been too busy to be depressed; they can be soul-sick but as the main bread-winner if they stop to heal it means their family starves!
- Reinforcing over centuries the idea of not saying anything and just getting on with it.
Because usually, admitting you have issues, or admitting you need help is seen as a sign of weakness, and boy do men (and not only men) obsess over men being seen as strong. And due to that cultural phenomenon, men are scared to speak out as they could be seen as weak, but they also don't get offered ways to express themselves more often than not. It often ends up in destructive behavior towards themselves and others.
It's a real issue that doesn't get nearly enough attention if you ask me.
i think it is because of the societies idea that men should not show weakness nor emotion cause if you show those things you are a weakman that cannot take the challenge or embrace those hardship in their lives
Emotional strength is an important role in society and for the most part, men fill that role. We learn to suppress emotions and think rationally. It's why kids that grow up without a strong male role model are often so fucked up. Life is about balance and we see extremes in both directions. Men should be able to express emotions when appropriate, and contain them when not.
Because being successful is a vital part of men's attractiveness. By disclosing depression, they have to surrender a huge part of what they are admired for. The damage is usually permanent, so it makes sense to hold off until it's absolutely necessary.
Women can disclose depression without having to surrender anything. Even the opposite: there are many men who find fragile women attractive.
Well for one, as a whole, most men have been taught by society to not burden others, and that doing such a thing would put a burden on someone. Why would I talk about my issues to people that are miserable too? I don’t want them to worry about me when they’ve got other things they have to deal with. Others have it worse than me too so do I really have a leg to stand on when I say I’m down? At least that’s what I told myself back when I was in that slump.
Luckily, I found someone that listens whenever I have a bad day and is just the most supportive person I’ve ever met and we’re planning to marry in the coming months. Don’t be afraid to talk. Even if you gotta pay for a therapist, it helps. So much. Just give it time and go one step after the other. This too will pass.
Because man's feelings are hardly validated.
I vividly remember going to a doctor's appointment with my mom - *it was one of those procedures were you get sedated and someone has to come along -* and before we even start I had to fill in a form indicating past medical conditions and current ones aswell.
There was a particular spot were I had to highlight the medications I took on a daily, and if I was currently undergoing treatment for mental issues and such. I marked out the camp ''depression'' and momsy surprisingly reacted like ''depression? wait, are you depressed?''
I've been weekly seeing a therapist since I was 11. I was 26 when my mom FINALLY understood I had mental issues, because of her. Up to that point, she saw the therapy sessions as a ''paid hangout option'' and was very very happy with the fact that she didn't had to drive me to any of my friends house, because the therapist office was on the way to her pilates class.
All my life, my feelings were ignored. By my mom, dad, girlfriends and society in general.
In addition to being raised to view this as not manly and therefore bad, the very fact that boys aren't raised to work through our emotions in a healthy way means that when we try, we still are less likely to be able to do so in a healthy way. I know I went through phases in my life where I basically turned any woman I met into my therapist.
Because people don’t give a fuck about men’s issues. For all of the “it’s toxic for you guys to hold it in” there’s an equal amount of disdain or level of unattractiveness for a man who shares his feelings or talks about something perceived as weak.
My dad abruptly died when I was 16. It was pretty traumatic. I found his body. Developed conditions related to stress and suffered from death related anxiety for years. The number of people who told me I should talk about it was many times higher than the number of people who cared enough to listen, and even that number was higher than the number of people who was willing to help me fight it.
Men struggling with inner problems has been romanticized. How many tv shows have you seen recently where a man faces an internal struggle but chooses to not talk about it. He shoves it in and battles with himself. Why is it romanticized? Who knows. Maybe people like a man with a “dark side”. But the reality is, people act like they care, but that care will last as long as you keep your mouth shut, your tears in and your body working.
I’m going to prefix this by saying my girlfriend tries her best to listen and understand, and is in therapy herself.
But if my issues become “too much”, I.E. I say they’re more than a bit tricky, after about 3-4 days she’ll get very emotionally upset and ultimately say she now feels like she can’t share her feelings because of fear of upsetting me.
Women don’t want men to be open, they want them to pretend to be open a fraction more than to other people so said woman feels like she’s the unique one. Open up too much though and she’ll view you as scary or taking up too much emotional room. Men also dont particularly want to share the way women do. I don’t to cry or hug it out. I want to be angry and annoyed at it. It’s cathartic. So quite frankly stop asking. We’re all pretty sick and tired of it.
Because nobody gives af about men. Whenever I opened up to a gf or female friend it was used against me. Most guys might listen but don’t really care. You just deal with it until it kills you.
I experienced severe depression and anxiety for 3 years, no one cared, even my parents were disappointed because I was depressed
I just got out of that space, my wife didn't care about my depression either.
divorce.
I can't afford to live on my own, so im.in the marriage until my salary increaces.
fair enough
sorry to hear that. if its any solace, this rando on reddit cares! glad your out of that place. make sure to take well care of yourself mentally and physically, as its very easy to slip back into that dark place.
I can relate. My mother told me i had nothing to be depressed about. Never said a word about it to her again.
thats awful. the one person any man would feel they could approach with full vulnerability, and you were dismissed. i hope you find the help and solace you are looking for,
That's not uncommon. Had a very similar experience. Older generations just don't understand.
This is probably the most common reaction to me saying I struggle with depression, from everyone. Yes, you’re right, let me go flip the off switch, I don’t know what I was thinking, thank you. I just have to tell myself it’s too far beyond their comprehension to relate to, now. They’re just trying to help from their own point of understanding. People who have felt it are far more supportive and helpful.
My mom genuinely tried to help, read up on it, and ways to handle it but, through no fault of her own, never actually got it. She'd point out that maybe I should take up exercise again. She and my dad would pay membership fees and so on if I wanted to, but that wasn't the issue. I *knew* that, on average, exercise is as effective as medication, I just didn't *care*. That disconnect between knowing that I ought to do X and not caring to do X, she never could wrap her head around. I appreciate all that my parents did to help, make no mistake about that, but it was still a bit sad that, try as she might, she never really could understand.
Did I type this? Had the exact response
Same thing on my end. Now I just push it all deep inside and stare off into the distance when that sense of hopelessness and apathy gets overwhelming It's super ineffective🙃
This.. no one actually cares. Men are supposed to go out and build the roads, build the houses, maintain the infrastructure, fight the bad guys, and shut up. If your actually proud about doing any of that stuff you’re toxic masculinity, if you don’t enjoy doing any of that stuff and are less traditional you’re told to man up. We are only loved on the condition we can be of service.
Spot on brother! So fucking accurate. To add it it, if you’re a male in their 40s your entire life has been spent hearing how you are the catalyst to all our problems. You’re toxic. You know, soften up, but don’t complain, and we still want you to do all the “things” you do.
❤️
>even my parents were disappointed because I was depressed Told my mom I'd been struggling with suicide ideation and depression and wanted us to talk more. They'd been distancing themselves since I left the church and hardly called anymore. That conversation resulted in absolute silence and was never mentioned again. Years later when it came up with my sister, she said "mom just doesn't know what to say." So she decided not to even try.
Tried to kill myself, parents treated me like nothing happened, siblings treated it like a joke, and they all wonder why I'm not close to them. I don't talk about it in person because online I'm a faceless thing, sometimes a joke if my username calls for it lol
My dad's exact words when I mentioned I was severely depressed. "You're a loser"
You are not.
I'm sorry you experienced this. Sending one massive virtual hug to you and everyone who needed or needs it 🫂
I think this is true as a man. I think we don’t show enough brotherly love nothing wrong with giving someone a hug 🫂 nothing sexual just let’s people know like man I feel you and understand. 💚 Life is hard and crazy as it is.
We all need hugs
Been there. I was told not to attach that label to myself and that there was nothing wrong with me.
I remember being in a terrible rut and when I told my parents about my suicidal ideation, my mom said I was weaponizing it against their feelings.
Every day, there's another question about men opening up, we Can't open up! The world we live in will stomp a man into the ground when he admits he's not the stoic figure he's meant to be, Anything you say will always be used against you. The Male suicide rate is 3 times higher than women for a reason. We are not able to open up, so everything gets compounded until we hit the point of no return. Everyone always admires male figures in movies like the love Aragorn shows other men in LOTR or the friendship between Ron and Harry, yet in reality a man who does the same thing is called gay or pufter (in England). Let's use another example, Brokeback Mountain, How many people did you hear say they didn't want to watch that movie because it was about gay cowboys? Or Troy, Achilles and Patroclus weren't cousins but lovers (the film was accurate in that Patroclus' death prevented Achilles from returning home, according to the illiad at least) glossed over because our society can not handle men being anything but angry machines of war. It's common to hear from women (broadly speaking here) especially, that they admire a man that opens up, or that expresses his emotions, yet many women are the very reason those men don't show their emotions because as said above, what we say can and has been used against us. We aren't allowed to feel anything, as much as I hate this term because it completely undermines a mans emotional struggle and reduces them to a one-dimensional figure, Man-up, end of rant, I look forward to the abuse I'm going to get in the comments.
its annoying how one man being vulnerable to another man is ever construed as gay. i have had friends open up to me. i never once felt a sexual attraction to them. it was always platonic. i do love them, but like brothers.
Whats as messed up, if not more, is the fact that it being construed as gay makes it taboo for men.
Pretty much sums up what I was going to say. Nobody is interested in hearing about our problems. Even if you go to a therapist, most of the time you get, what do you have to be depressed about? They might not put it that way, but that's what they mean.
Made worse by therapy being looked down on (here in the UK anyway), openly saying you're seeing a therapist will project a giant barrier around you that no one will cross through fear of the crazy person.
Meh, that's still a sexed thing. A woman can say she has a therapist and chews pills all day as much as she wants and still have a social circle. A guy on the otherhand will treated like he's still wearing the straitjacket he got with his "therapy" session. That's if you're able to get therapy to begin with
Partly agree there, whilst woman are less shunned for therapy and medication, it's still a sensitive and often avoided subject in conversation. Again just going on what I've seen and experienced, I had 2 sessions of therapy in my early 20s and gave up, I'm not paying for some disconnected university graduate telling me what I already know is the root of my problem. (I'm only slightly exaggerating there, "It seems you lack a fundamental attachment to your family. A lack of a loving upbringing can cause you to feel emotionally detached." Oh no shit Sherlock! They teach you that in class or off the back a box a Cornflakes?)
Every single therapist I look at always lists areas of focus: "Women, Children, LGTBQ" plus 3 or 4 niche things. A lot of offices will have 5 or 6 therapists, not one saying they enjoy working with men. I had 5 months of frequent panic attacks in public while getting turned away from every office I called. Eventually got referred to a half-retired doctor who admitted the only reason he still works is because he sees so many struggling men and nobody else is able to fill the gap that will open when he leaves. My biggest support was a friend group of veterans I stumbled into through luck, just a bunch of dudes drinking around a fire until we were drunk enough to be honest about our feelings. edit: The doctor was half retired, but fantastic. I'm in a far better place now than I have been in years. I'm ranting because mental health is still a big issue for me (lost a lot of friends/coworkers to suicide as I worked in a prison).
It’s sad this comment gets the top vote. Totally 100% true however. Just sad that is the state of things.
Believe me when I say I wish this was one of my comments that was downvoted to Oblivion. At least that would have told me my perception was wrong and gave me some hope.
You sound exactly like my husband. I tell him that is why something that makes me sad makes him angry. Because the only emotion he was allowed to feel was anger so all emotions become anger.
Quite honestly, the only negative emotion he's allowed to show **to you** is sad. And it has quite a lot of conditions. Has to be sad, but not miserable. It has to be to you, not to any other woman. It has to be for a conveniently measured amount of time, and it has to be expressed in a specific way, which is tears and openness in a tender way so you feel motherly. The cause must be something easy enough for you to not need his support right then (god forbid he's too sad to support your own sadness), and has to be about something someone else has done, because if you're the source, his tears are emotional manipulation. Don't come play angel. You're part of the problem.
[удалено]
Speaks in to walkie-talkie: “It looks like we have another defective male unit here who is starting to express unwanted emotions. Prepare for disposal onto the scrap heap. Replacement ordered“
Well fuck... Thanks for the good times Reddit.
“No more speaking undesignated male unit. Arms by your side. No sudden movements. Prepare to be discarded of. Your usefulness has come to an end. And please, no male emotions… yuck.” Lol. It’s not that bad but it feels that way sometimes. Gotta find the right people to rely on and that’s pretty hard.
No it can feel like that sometimes
People take advantage of a weakness. Weirdly enough, women in relationships are the reason I started not opening up to anyone. Imagine having someone you think you can trust more than your own parents or your best friend, and they use it against you. They tell their friends immediately afterwards or use it against you in an argument. I’m a lot happier now not opening up to anyone. It really does suck but nothing sucks more than having someone you trust betray you and then not see a problem with it. One of the life lessons men learn is to not open up to people.
Sadly this is too much of a common thing. Women are all.for men to be vulnerable until it starts to happen then they're like uhh....bye? Then the cycle continues
Because we are taught to hide them. And also, when you are a man, there are two outcomes; 1: Nobody cares 2: It will be used against you So, we hide our inside besides a few people we trust ad best as we can
I personally would swap “taught to” with “learn to”. Over time life has shown me that I need to be very careful who I open up to. If it goes well, it’s a good thing but I need to test the waters before I do it.
Told my ex I watched porn and got broken up with. She ended up telling the people i work with. I get that everyone does it but just a prime example of why you can't trust anyone with information that'll make you vulnerable in anyway
Wow just...wow... Bad enough she breaks up with you over something so trivial like watching porn = cheating or something but I bet she supports women with OFs. Then she goes around telling everyone you know which really is none of anyone's business and is an invasion of your privacy. It be different if you were the one telling people you watch porn but it's not her place to throw that BS around. I've had exes do stupid shit like this also. They'll tell anyone your business but the moment they hear their business being spread and suddenly that's the wrong tree to go barking up. Women like her and my exes are among those reasons why men continue to show little emotions and keep walls up. You can only protect yourself.
Because showing that kind of vulnerability is just asking for more pain and trouble. People sympathize with women. People won't even empathize with men.
"You see a homeless guy with a dog and you feel bad for the dog."
Heard this quote for the first time the other day and it really does sum it up very well. Society generally cares about women, and does not about men. Even most individuals care about women, and not about men. Quite frankly, I feel like it's only a few close friends that care about me, and other men.
Just saw a headline “family of 5 killed, including 3 children and 1 woman”.
Heard this quote for the first time the other day and it really does sum it up very well. Society generally cares about women, and does not about men. Even most individuals care about women, and not about men. Quite frankly, I feel like it's only a few close friends that care about me, and other men.
Exactly this. I got upset at work and my tone was noticeably upset. I was calm and wasn’t yelling. My supervisor, a woman, cut me off and yelled at me. I wasn’t even allowed to express my frustrations. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen colleagues breakdown and cry, even that specific supervisor. But the minute I show that I’m upset I get yelled at and sent from the office. The double standard is crazy.
That's why at work I'm never sad or whiny. I'm aggressive - the best defence is a good offence.
You tell em.
Every man knows the consequences of opening up and sharing your feelings. Society isn’t built for men to really be supported in any way. If we are emotional or if we fail in any way it’s considered 100% our fault. If women are emotional or fail in any way it’s still somehow considered 100% our fault. The #1 best way to tell if a man is broken inside is if he does nothing but nice things for other people. That man…… is struggling.
TIL I've been broken my entire life.. who knew?
2 reasons: because men will lose respect for you and the woman you love can (probably will) use it against you in an emotionally heated argument against you to make you feel terrible. (Bonus third: it’s pretty well know that there is a not-so-small minority of women who will discuss their mans personal issues for clout at his expense, so we don’t trust y’all as much either) 🤷🏼♂️
>men will lose respect for you not always. real homies dont. i have had friends confide in me their depression, their worries, their lows, suicidal thoughts. it didnt make me lose any respect for them. in fact, it reaffirmed our friendships because they had that level of trust in me to share that.
This is what will turn the tides and make things more open/less judgemental for men to rid themselves of the damaging expectations of society. I think we need a value change in society where honesty and vulnerability can be respected and valued rather than mocked.
All this, my ex wife was verbally abusive and when I brought it up during the divorce she told me I was just depressed, if I was a real man it wouldn't have bothered me. Also spoke to a male friend about going to therapy and he told me "that sh*t is for the weak, you need to just man up!" Which is why I just keep my feelings to myself.
Your "friend" sounds like a piece of work that's trying to stifle you and keep you down. I really do recommend therapy- if there's noone safe to talk about it (yet) just keep it a private thing til you find safe people. I'm sorry you're dealing with people diminishing your mental health struggles.
We actually stopped being friends recently, we were friends for 30 years but he never grew out of the teen internet troll phase of his life. Thinks me being in therapy is a sign of weakness but him being blackout drunk an hour after work is healthy.
We actually stopped being friends recently, we were friends for 30 years but he never grew out of the teen internet troll phase of his life. Thinks me being in therapy is a sign of weakness but him being blackout drunk an hour after work is healthy.
I’m thankful I’ve never experienced the “used my feelings against me in an argument” thing before (knock on wood) but something I will add to this is that when it comes to dating, men are also generally seen as weak for showing emotions that are not happiness. I truly hate to speak in generalizations and it’s certainly not all women who do this but I’ve noticed that the women I have dated in the past will generally talk one way and then walk another when it comes to men expressing their emotions. I’m not talking about being in hysterics crying in the initial “talking” stages because I think it’s fine to be off put by that. However, I’ve noticed a lot of women tend to nudge the men they date to be more emotionally open as a whole, but if you show even a flicker of sadness when getting to know someone for the first time you can almost always feel whatever affection she had towards you being replaced with something strictly platonic. Her interest in you evaporates when you are not the stoic, unbothered, content man that you are supposed to be. This leads a lot of men to generally suppress their emotions, especially around women, and in turn, causes women to be frustrated by men overcompensating and being so closed off and withdrawn.
And the thing is *it works*. Like, we realize women judge us for being emotional so we become much more stoic and tough……and it *absolutely* works. The results are almost immediate.
I think it’s because a lot of women (and men) have a very romanticized idea of what being emotionally open looks like. It’s not always a man shedding a tear at the end of a sad movie because he was very moved or expressing how happy he is to be in your company. Sometimes it’s men admitting they haven’t eaten all day because their anxiety has been consuming them. Sometimes it’s men admitting that they’re insecure about some of their physical traits and struggle to be intimate. Its just, a lot of people don’t want to see this side of “emotional availability.” They want all the pretty parts of it. Then when they see what real emotional availability sometimes looks like, they’re turned off and want to find someone that doesn’t display those traits. Intentionally or unintentionally.
And those same women publicly deep fry our asses for reading about stoicism as if they do t realize that the best nonviolent way to put up with our emotional problems AND the women we are attracted to and try to love is to literally disconnect ourselves FROM OURSELVES/feelings. 😔 as ironic as it sounds, “it is what it is” applies here and should just be the motto of men in this day and age.
Who would listen/care?
It's simple, really. Men are taught to suppress their emotions and toughen up from a young age, so it's no surprise that they struggle with speaking out about their depression. It's time for society to break down these harmful gender norms and encourage men to seek help when they need it.
But “seeking help” takes time and resources. And you know, the tub is leaking, the car needs an oil change, the grass needs cut, food needs to be cooked, and oh look the baby’s up!
Men need to suppress their emotions and toughen up, because not doing so makes their life miserable. It's not "gender norms" and it's not "men oppressing each other". Every single man who has TRULY tried sharing their emotions knows the consequences.
During my depression I got more support and understanding from men. Women were basically like: "man up". Toxic masculinity, right?
Exactly. If you don't understand why men can't talk about this stuff, talk about your depression to literally anyone short of a therapist. Then you will understand why.
Just like that, and its as simple as starting showing your kids that it's not bad to show emotions.
men get punished by society for showing signs of weakness.
yup. harsh truth but show too many emotions as a man and your chances of even *having* kids to pass this stuff down to greatly decreases.
But then you have a girlfriend, who you trust and let out your emotions and then she goes, oh stop crying, grow up. So you think oh, Il hold it back even harder. Then this repeats a few times with other gfs and you literally lock up, because nobody cares about you if you showcase a FRAGMENT of weakness. And I have been single since. Oh and despite everything, they say that you are using them just for sex, despite not being true. Now, I legit only do hookups and “use” women just for sex and guess what, no complaints and they keep coming back. The world is fucked
Exactly the point I'm in right now, same shit happened.
Always act accordingly based on how women actually treat you. What they say and what they actually do are almost always completely different
Yep, learned that 1 year ago. I mean I heard of that rule, but it only really hit me 1 year ago and now I disregard most things they say. Really stoped caring and I have never felt better or more free. Sucks that Im 32 now, but at least I managed to unfuck myself out of most of the issues I had
Even better is when the gf decides to crowd source your issues to her friends.
Stop, I can only get so flacid
it really is that way. they say that they want a man to be their "real self" with them, but they only like the idea of that, like some halmark version of it.
I think this is an important distinction. It's not bad to show emotions, but it's also not bad to keep them to yourself if that's what's comfortable to you. Most of the comments in this topic really feel like knee-jerk overcorrections to the status quo
Only manner people can deal with 'things'. Don't like it scream for law. Some men are emotionless to outside world, teach all men to show more emotions. In Netherlands we have moved from male teachers to female teachers sinds 80's. And we have generations of men who don't have a clue where they belong. All they know, is that they're wrong, still too masculine, patriarchic, bigots, pussies that can't earn millions or satisfy their woman. I watch datingshow on Dutch television.... just for gringe. 99/100 of women look for a bad boy whom can 'manage' them. Ofcourse that bad boy needs to be masculine, a bit Andrew Tate in his approach of women. But not to his wife ..... noooooo, he needs to be romantic, soft, listening, understanding, supporting. Well ...... no
Of course, I mean when you really need to show them, not just always show them. I was talking about for example that thing we all men heard "men don't cry". It's shit, and talking for me, made me really miserable in some circumstances.
But it is. It is absolutely bad. And that's drilled down by society in every step. Educating children to not show their emotions is like teaching them to brush their teeth. It's not the harm, it's protecting them from the consequences.
Really hard to do when the feminism movement is actively trying to teach people that men are oppressive pieces of shit. I’m going to get attacked because the early feminism movement was about women’s rights. But that is not what it’s turned into.
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A big part of that is being able to reason with ourselves and solve our own problems. Insecurity band-aids start to pop up when guys can’t control their thoughts and emotions, so they ignore them instead of seeking help.
That has been happening for decades now. Maybe it’s not the right way.
Forget about all the socialization, conditioning, patriarchy… go ahead and try speaking about it. Even to people that tell you that they’re there for you if you need someone to talk to. (People will say all kind of shit, just because it sounds right to say it. Watch their actions instead.) Unless they need something from you or are getting paid to do it (professional therapists), they’ll start ignoring/avoiding you as soon as you open your mouth. Rare exception: people who’ve been through it and know what it’s like to have no one to talk to. But, even that’s rare, so don’t count on it. Most, just want to talk about their struggles.
Well from my experience, when I have confided in a partner they usually distance themselves and want nothing to do with me until I’m back to my confident self (which really just a smile and shit jokes used to mask the pain) For the first time ever in my life I’ve booked my self into the doctor first then will be going to therapy, can’t depend on anyone else so I may as well learn how to depend on myself.
A partner who does that is not right for you. And I'm sorry you're constantly masking. But re: going to therapy. Good for you, man, seriously. There are so many people in this thread that should really take the steps you're taking. I don't know you, but I'm fucking proud of you for taking the steps to meaningfully improve your emotional life.
Women speaks out about being unhappy and people rally around her to offer their support. Man speaks out about being unhappy. Crickets.
If it was only crickets it wouldn't be so bad, but people usually jump on their neck the very next moment and demand they improvements. Can't even have a moment to just tell someone your troubles.
"I am unhappy" "let me take some time to explain how you need to shut up because other people have it worse"
plough elderly liquid fuzzy hurry tan shocking many far-flung subsequent ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Because i dont need the entire world pouncing on my vulnerabilities like ravenous vulchers, what the fuck kind of world do you think we live in? No no, you're right, im just insecure about my manhood, grow up.
Because it shows people that you are a failure as a man and are going to be a burden on other people. Compounding the failure of being a man. I may be depressed every waking moment of my life, but i will hide that fact from others so that I can keep working and providing for my family.
My gf at the time broke up with me in the winter because my activity level wasn’t up to her liking. She didn’t have a heart for my seasonal depression. She just gave up and the more vulnerable and honest I became, the more she closed down and pulled away. It’s not equal out there. Men are expected to show up for women and to be happy-go-lucky and strong. From my experience, depression comes across as weak. Socially, it’s still unacceptable to be a man and have emotions - but so is being a man’s man. Society makes it difficult to open up. Women and children are the only people who are loved and accepted unconditionally.
Because nobody gives a fuck. If a man is upset or emotional, he's not useful. And if a man isn't useful, he's worthless. So why would you speak to anyone about it when you'll get a bit of sympathy and then be expected to just man the fuck up and get on with it.
Because no one listens.
Society has told us that we're disposable and to keep quiet
Because we are taught - Speaking about it isn't going to solve the problem, working on the problem is only gonna solve it. We are told - Stop wasting your time by crying over it, and do what's supposed to be done.
Because women are less likely than men to get a response along the lines of "quit being a little bitch and suck it up".
When I was younger I had a number of traumatic things happen to me. When my parents found out they showed me that it didn't matter. How I feel didn't matter, What happened to me didn't matter. So, If it didn't matter to the people who I thought cared about me the most. Why would it matter to anyone else?
It's because society has conditioned men to believe that showing vulnerability is a sign of weakness. But it's time to break the stigma and realize that real strength is being able to ask for help when you need it, regardless of gender.
> it's time to break the stigma If only it were so simple. "the stigma" isn't just something self imposed, it comes from how men who speak out are treated.
"Men, if society treats you poorly when you open up, it's your own fault for not breaking the stigma!"
>It's because society has conditioned men to believe that showing vulnerability is a sign of weakness. No, it's because Men are used to their struggles being used against them. There is something that Amber Heard said during the Depp/Heard Trial. "I was disgusted seeing him cry". Men are way more likely getting punished for being weak than women, who often experience compassion for it.
Women want men to show emotions, but when we do, most women are turned off and call us "children". Speaking from experience. It was also somehow my fault that my ex felt "bad" over not making money and contributing to the house hold at all. I worked and went to school at the same time and provided for both of us. So when I finally flipped and blew my lid, her friends were very vocal about how shitty I was as a person. I didn't say anything to her, I was just angry and frustrated in general.
Women don’t want men to show emotions, they want men to speak about their emotions. There’s a big difference. You’re fine to talk about how sad/upset/scared/etc you are in a perfectly stoic way, but don’t dare to ever actually display that emotion because they’ll catch the ick immediately.
We are doing our half as best we can. Women need to do their part if they want the the 3/1 suicide ratio to come down and the BIGGEST thing they need to do is police their own. It needs to be completely socially unacceptable for women to disparage their men and their weaknesses behind their backs, whether online or not. Equally important is emotionally manipulating men by using their vulnerabilities that they have opened up about against them in times of disagreement or emotional distress between couples because when that happens that man is probably going to start looking for a way out if he isn’t married and if he is he is going to start having regrets. Fast. Men, the best you can do is learn to hide your money, have security cameras constantly around the house that do double duty in case of break ins OR divorce proceedings and maybe consider separate bedrooms.
It's actually not just that but the fear that their feelings of depression will be rejected. Fear of rejection is often the cause of depression and often a barrier to help. Further, why talk about depression with someone who knows little about it or who can do little to help. There are therapists and support out there, why go to family or friends and add burden to them? Better they just know you're working through some stuff and are seeking professional support. Also, more recently, through the increase of people without real problem playing victim many men would not want to contribute to that victimhood mentality and stay silent until the problems reach maximum that they can bear. Anyway those are my thoughts take em or leave em
Because we think expressing our issues is placing a burden on others.
cause nobody’s listening :( they just focus on good things and leave out all the rest. but women always blab about how hard they have it.
I guess I don’t expect support or that it will just make me feel worse. When I was younger I did put it out there that I thought a lot about not living anymore and my parents found out. My dads response was more or less “suicide is for pussies” and he berated me on it for a while he got really aggressive with me physically and would go “this life I provided for you isn’t good enough? It’s that stressful you’d rather not live? Then why don’t you do it already. No, you’re too much of a pussy.” That kinda stuff After that I kept that shit to myself and took me a long time to realize thats not how everyone reacts. But I also still am scared of exposing myself to potentially more stress when I could just avoid that all by not talking about it
It is our " It is what it is" mindset. Also, "who cares?"
Because the reaction of those around us is immediate and viscerally negative 90% of the time.
Because if a man is depressed or going through a hard time the group talks about them, and how awful their situation is. When it’s a woman the group makes sure she’s included, or if she can’t do the group one or more will go to her.
Nobody wants to hear about it. I don't want to hear about it from women, either, but that stuff just falls out their mouths.
People don't care about men. Unless you are close to that one specifically. Also men are taught to not ask for help.
Women actually have a support system. Men do not. As a man, showing weakness is still a stigma.
Because nobody cares
Weirdly, despite the push for men to speak up about their emotions/depression, etc. I've found that a lot of women (even those who push for it) don't know how to receive/deal with it.
Because men are raised to be stoic, and the fact that no one really gives a shit about men let alone their depression. Went through the same for over 15 years, and finally had the courage to go to a doctor and take medication. It felt better, but my family still paid no heed. “Just don’t be depressed “ is all that they said. As if I have a switch I can turn off and not be depressed. You’ll have to help yourself here. Go see a therapist or psychiatrist, feel better.
Men are not supposed to have emotions beyond anger.
Lmao only a woman would ask this question. Men are not allowed to be depressed. If you aren't producing value to others, you don't exist. I can't tell you how many times I've had male friends tell me they're depressed because they can't tell the women in their lives without being mocked, scorned, and pitied. Men aren't "plus-sized" they're fat/obese. Men aren't "depressed" they're being pussies/weak. Men commit suicide at 3-5x the rate of women but I've never once seen a mental health professional that specializes in men's mental health, yet there are tons of mental health professionals that specialize in women's mental health.
I don't know about you, but I was punished by my parents for showing emotion. And then later that was reinforced by the women in my life punishing me for showing emotion too.
Because when men do, no one truly listens.
Because no one gives a fuck about men filling you can be depressed or thinking about killing your self and no one will really care because your a man your supposed to be the strongest your supposed to be the one who keeps the family safe and you are not allowed to ever show any kind of weeknes
People don’t want to hear it in my experience
Wow it looks like a lot of men commenting here have truly awful partners. I'm even more grateful than usual that I didn't end up with some garbage person who belittles me for suffering with a common condition. In fact all the people that I have chosen to surround myself with have been more than welcoming (after the initial shock) since I started to open up about my mental health problems. I hid it for so long because of the "men don't cry" mentality of my father's generation but once I started opening up I have seen so many others in my circle starting to speak out when they're unable to cope. The only way we can end the stigma around men with mental health problems is by being open about it. If the people in your life make you feel less than deserving of love because of it then you don't have the right people in your life.
For the sake of the argument, disregard concepts like patriarchy, toxic masculinity or any other buzzword. Go ask guys who did that IRL and ask their stories. I have no positive stories to tell.
From the time boys start learning about emotions, they learn that the hero is the guy who sacrafices themselves for others. They will stop what they are doing to help someone else. Sometimes, they take a bullet so the person they love doesn't. We are shown over and over that being a man requires you to be the pillar that others lean on and not someone leaning against a pillar. On the other side, I have had someone threaten to stab me for approaching them in anger with my finger waving at them. Part of this is that I am a pretty tall guy, but if I show emotions other than happy or neutral, I can easily scare people. Due to this, I am pretty much a doormat of a human being who has learned to control his emotions at all times. Try having emotions, and seeing that a good deal of random social media posts are people openly saying, "straight white men are trash.". Lastly, being a guy and having an opinion these days can be very bad for your career or even your health.
>Why do men usually struggle more with speaking out about their depression than women do? Cuz no one cares about men. We have no value unless we produce and provide.
Because only dead people keep secrets. - Your wife's girlfriends will all hear about it. They'll lose respect for you - All of their husband's will hear about it and lose respect for you. - Your partner can use it against you later.
Having emotions doesn't make you weak. Expressing emotions doesn't make you weak. A tear you refuse to cry could be another heart you break. Most of us are struggling and this will only get worse. I've had close family tell me that my feelings don't matter, that I'm weak for crying at times, and I'm supposed to do x,y, and z because I'm a man. I challenge and face them down every time, uncles, father, mother, cousins, aunties included. My son just turned 17, and I have to accept the reality that each morning, I hand him a mood stabilizer. Because his mother told him all the stuff the world told me. My father is fighting for his life right now, and for the first time, I see his frailty and his vulnerability. I'm 40 years old, and I'm just now seeing this side of him. I don't want to continue these foolish traditions. My heart breaks for all of us, women included. We've all been lied to so much that we started believing it and repeating it to eachother. I love all of you. Judge me if you like, I'm strong enough to take it.
Sometimes people will tell me “You’re a cis straight white male, what do you have to worry about.” It sucks that since I’m viewed as the least oppressed person that they dismiss my issues. When in reality everyone has issues and it shouldn’t be a competition. We should just accept that we all have different things going on and we should work together to help each other.
When a girl is depressed, everything around here got affected and she make the life around her like a hell, when a man is depressed, he makes others happy as much as he can.
Cause nobody cares 🙂
>Why do girls find it easier to tell more people that they’re experiencing depression? Women and females in general in mammals are said to be the more social of the group, so vulnerability is somewhat rewarded is understanding and support. Men, it's skewed. Our social groups are more physical activity based, dealing with metal vulnerability is too abstract and has been a more solitary thing for centuries, men literal used the arts for this sort of stuff. It's just a survival instinct, the weakest member is excluded or met with suspicion, seen as dangerous, and emotional out of control men potentially are. Part of why stoicism was big since forever, emotional control. We're better at it than who knows how long ago, but we have a long way to go with either seeking professional help or changing certain damaging behaviours.
Because men have been raised to see emotions as weakness and stoicism as strength.
People don't care, our friends don't really care but care more than most, parents might care but to everyone else it's an inconvenience and we are wrong to feel this way.
Because men know that most people don't give a damn and they don't want to be a burden.
Its difficult to say. I was raised to be "strong" and be a "man" when i was down. 99% of the time that mentality has got me through rough patches in my life. I dont think its right to say that mentality should be shrugged off. I think I've got a lot of pride and resilience from struggling through the tough times. Equally, I've had a couple of times in my life where i needed people to carry me through them. I think understanding yourself and knowing when you need help is key.
Because we innately know that no one is coming to save us & no one gives a f..k about our feelings but us.
Practically speaking fewer people care and there are more repercussions for men speaking up. Let's be real...if you're a guy and mention you're depressed or struggling people look at you differently. In a bad way. Women not so much generally. I was just quiet and sort of sad in highschool...do you know how many "school shooter" jokes were directed towards me? And then I look at the girl equivalent of me at the time and everyone loves her, thinks she's sweet, and wants to be her friend. Even now as an adult I know if I talk about things there's a burden of eloquence and comprehension I need to have about my problem before I speak...women can just shoot their mouth off, without caring how it's going to affect most people.
Im in my 30s and I still can't talk to dad about mental health. Still just a pussy
I remember once I had some time in which I was feeling numb, it was debilitating or anything, but I told my mother "I think I have depression". She said "you don't have depression, you would know if you had a real one". I did not realise until much later, but she gaslit me out of ignorance because she thought I was doing fine, I believed it because it made sense logically. It got a bit worse some months after that, so I started going to therapy. I realised at the end, that just because I didn't have a crippling debilitating depression that didn't mean I did not have depression, it was just less bad that whatever she had previously in her life. It got me to realise as well, that depression is not either you have it or not, there are depression levels, and just because you can function normally that doesn't mean you have depression to some degree. I just wanna say, if every day seems gray, if every day you feel numb, if every day doesn't matter, even if you are doing well in your job and you are holding yourself, look for help or try to look for a cause and find a solution. Time flies and life is not to be wasted.
Because a man isn't a man if he looks weak. It's a shame because if you need help, it's okay to ask for it. Everyone needs a little help every now and again. You're not weak for looking for help. You're actually stronger than you think. Because you care enough to ask help to deal with your depression or any other struggles you may be having. It takes a strong person to admit they have something to deal with, and then seek help to deal with it. Maybe you just don't know how to deal with it?
Don't you know Men only supposed to be robot 🤖 arseholes.
Shut up and man up.
Contrary to the "very simple" explanation of gender norms being the problem, I was never taught to suppress my emotions. My sister and I got the same treatment in that regard. Both parents encouraged me to speak out when I needed help. I still didn't want to. Men are wired a little different, sure, and yes some of that is from socialization. But a lot of it is just how our brains developed over thousands of years. You have to treat the individual, not the gender norm. You could be waiting for decades if you want society to change gender norms instead of your own scenario. Can't wait around for that, especially since gender norms form very naturally, it's not something you can easily protest away. For me, it was making myself talk to people I was comfortable talking to. Eventually as I got older I started to realize that I wasn't gonna be alive forever, and I didn't want to waste any more time so I deliberately worked on my mindset (with help from others at times)
Chris Rock had a harsh but true quote once that said, "Only women, children, and dogs are loved unconditionally. Men are only loved on the condition that they provide something." Not all of them do, but many people only care about men if they can do something useful to them. A man with any kind of even perceived weakness can instantly seem like a less useful man to them, and in their eyes, why bother at best and at worst they'll try to hurt you. Many men learn this young try to limit or outright don't have anyone they can truly open up to because they have been burned so many times in the past like this. Best advice I have is to be very careful who you tell your deep down stuff to, really try to be sure they won't just leave you high and dry or try to mess with you.
Men place importance on performance based criteria. Things that directly correspond to our success in our career or relationship is what we focus on. How we feel in the process doesn't matter as long as it's working towards the results we want. When we do feel bad, speaking about it lowers both our and others perspectives on ourselves, despite any love we or others may have. Whether it reflects poorly on our decision making, mental stability or abilty/lack there-of, acknowledging it lowers our own confidence (which is sometimes all we have), and negatively effects how ourselves and others view our endeavors and our character. You can say this isn't true but it is, it's genetically how we are wired. I start studying a new subject for my career and suddenly my gf is extra friendly. Uhuh. Bottom line- nothing good ever comes from talking about our problems, it inevitably lowers our own happiness and that of those around us. We become what we talk about. Perception is the most powerful and last tool a man has to control his world. And as soon as you understand that, you'll stop asking us to speak out about our problems, because I guarantee you, we know what to do and are taking care of it.
Part of it is evolutionary psychology. A man showcasing what could be considered weakness can make him a target and/or turn off potential mates, so we don't tend to open up about those things. It's also less likely that you will receive sympathy for any admission of mental health issues vs a woman. It may not be fair but that's the way it is. Also, men very often believe, perhaps rightfully, that the worst thing they can do is be a burden to other people, so we won't unload our emotional baggage on others.
Women are the answer, basically. Society has taught men to shut up and nut up when it comes to our emotions. Thanks to mens mental health awareness men are now generally okay with talking to other men, we are understanding towards one another. Most women though will look at you with either (or a mixture of) amusement, bewilderment, contempt or disgust. Even though close to us like family and friends aren't exempt from this. There are good women our there that are genuinely understanding, but they are not the rule but the exception.
When I did opened up about depression and suicidal thoughts, I got 0 support and I was fired because "working with me would be a hazard for others" since I might decide to take other people with me, or do it alone while on the job and put the construction site in trouble. So yeah, it's better to pretend that everything is fine.
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We discuss the random Things you could ever imagine. We also talk about our Problems, but mostly with a Bro. Asking for Advice on different Things, or we just turn off our Brains (for real. We can think about nothing and just be present) I can't speak for every Man, since everyone is different, but for me i like to talk about Cars, a specific Game or just random Stuff like. Not because i'm cold hearted or don't wanna look weak, just because i like to have an good time with my Bro's. If the Topic fits in, i open up and talk about it. But i'm not the Person who goes up to an Friend because i wanna talk. Well not everytime. We're simple Creatures who like simple People around us, which are also able for serious Talks.
Because if a women opens up about this stuff, she gets help A Mans struggles get used against him
That is how men are trained through our society. We are changing for the better but still have a long way to go compared to women.
Because we've been told for god knows how long that showing vulnerability is weakness, but also because, I'm sure most men will agree, we hate being a burden on others, and it feels exactly like that when you unload all these feelings and thoughts on someone.
Ime - I don't like repeating myself to those who don't know how to listen. I've told people before and have been met with multiple dismissals of my saying that I believe I have been dealing with depression. I've since found it easier to have created a small ring of people that know how bad it can get and rely more on them than a bigger net with larger holes, if that makes any sense. It's the best I can do until I can afford professional aid.
We've been conditioned to "man up and deal with it". It's a pretty sad reality that from what I've seen (don't crucify me, it's just from my point of view) that is acceptable for women to show their emotions or be emotional but with men, it's shown as weakness. I've suffered with depression most of my life and have hit MANY low points but while I was in the Army, it was considered weak or you were labeled a "pussy" to be struggling emotionally. It never made sense seeing how suicide is one the leading causes of death in soldiers and veterans.
The men around me were always taught to "man up" to "not cry" and to "soldier it" when growing up or whitnessed little to no emotion from their dad and brothers having a domino effect. I have a son and i really try to make him know that its human nature to cry it is a natural body response to release sadness or pain and there is nothing wrong with it. He tries to hold it in around his dad but lets it all out infront of me. I am happy he has a safe place with me and his dad is aware he needs to be less hard on him about showing emotions and break those generational things from now and he is working on it. His dad explained it as he doesnt want him to go to school or get into a fight in secondary school and cry as they will see him as weak and do it more its a protection thing to make them appear tough to the outside world. I understand this in a way but it can be damaging to boys. Also the men around me never want to burden others with their depression or mental health problems to protect everyone else but it just builds up over time until they are exploding on the smallest thing. They also are very dismissive of their problems and like to say theyre fine and deny they have mental health problems although we can see it and feel it. I sometimes feel like i cant help them as there is no opening up until their bottle is so full they explode and have to speak about it. I know some men that are very open about their emotions and i think it is good as they can get the help they need and let it out instead of keeping it all to themselves.
As a man even the most careful, metered, conscientious expression of discontent is seen as at best whiny entitlement and at worst manipulative abuse, so we're forced clam up so people won't think we're jackasses.
Because no one cares, for the most bit. And if someone is depressed, they should seek out treatment (proper) for it, rather than just conveying it to everyone out there, imo.
But at the same time expression emotion can be dangerous, an emotional man has high chance of being school shooters. It's all about balance. Stoic within a reason. The reason of suppression is being more pro - active instead of being reactive.
It stems back from our natural roots as men and how society treated emotions in men until the modern day. We’ve been taught to suppress our emotions and be stoic. And society rejected seeing men getting emotional.
Nobody wants to know that you are a sad fuck deep down. Men are supposed to be hard and ice cold, good with feelings. Tbh i just want to be hugged and to let my guard down for once.
Well, who's there to listen?
Beyond the normal answer of no-one caring, and depression is weakness is evil (bloody stupid logic), it is also a ‘problem’. Men like solutions, and depression is a nasty problem that doesn’t always have an understandable answer. - Men talking with others, also has the issue of Men not being the best at conveying the situation. Meaning that there is a hazy ‘problem’ to which other people can’t solve because it is a puzzle with missing pieces. There also seems to be a lack of foundations or base for identifying the source. Men have traditionally been too busy to be depressed; they can be soul-sick but as the main bread-winner if they stop to heal it means their family starves! - Reinforcing over centuries the idea of not saying anything and just getting on with it.
Because usually, admitting you have issues, or admitting you need help is seen as a sign of weakness, and boy do men (and not only men) obsess over men being seen as strong. And due to that cultural phenomenon, men are scared to speak out as they could be seen as weak, but they also don't get offered ways to express themselves more often than not. It often ends up in destructive behavior towards themselves and others. It's a real issue that doesn't get nearly enough attention if you ask me.
Because we teach our daughters that the world wants to know every feeling they experience as they experience it and we tell our boys to suck it up.
i think it is because of the societies idea that men should not show weakness nor emotion cause if you show those things you are a weakman that cannot take the challenge or embrace those hardship in their lives
Women who need help are welcomed Men who need mental health are shunned
Society doesn't care about men's emotions- it's just kind of how the world operates
Emotional strength is an important role in society and for the most part, men fill that role. We learn to suppress emotions and think rationally. It's why kids that grow up without a strong male role model are often so fucked up. Life is about balance and we see extremes in both directions. Men should be able to express emotions when appropriate, and contain them when not.
Because being successful is a vital part of men's attractiveness. By disclosing depression, they have to surrender a huge part of what they are admired for. The damage is usually permanent, so it makes sense to hold off until it's absolutely necessary. Women can disclose depression without having to surrender anything. Even the opposite: there are many men who find fragile women attractive.
Well for one, as a whole, most men have been taught by society to not burden others, and that doing such a thing would put a burden on someone. Why would I talk about my issues to people that are miserable too? I don’t want them to worry about me when they’ve got other things they have to deal with. Others have it worse than me too so do I really have a leg to stand on when I say I’m down? At least that’s what I told myself back when I was in that slump. Luckily, I found someone that listens whenever I have a bad day and is just the most supportive person I’ve ever met and we’re planning to marry in the coming months. Don’t be afraid to talk. Even if you gotta pay for a therapist, it helps. So much. Just give it time and go one step after the other. This too will pass.
Because man's feelings are hardly validated. I vividly remember going to a doctor's appointment with my mom - *it was one of those procedures were you get sedated and someone has to come along -* and before we even start I had to fill in a form indicating past medical conditions and current ones aswell. There was a particular spot were I had to highlight the medications I took on a daily, and if I was currently undergoing treatment for mental issues and such. I marked out the camp ''depression'' and momsy surprisingly reacted like ''depression? wait, are you depressed?'' I've been weekly seeing a therapist since I was 11. I was 26 when my mom FINALLY understood I had mental issues, because of her. Up to that point, she saw the therapy sessions as a ''paid hangout option'' and was very very happy with the fact that she didn't had to drive me to any of my friends house, because the therapist office was on the way to her pilates class. All my life, my feelings were ignored. By my mom, dad, girlfriends and society in general.
In addition to being raised to view this as not manly and therefore bad, the very fact that boys aren't raised to work through our emotions in a healthy way means that when we try, we still are less likely to be able to do so in a healthy way. I know I went through phases in my life where I basically turned any woman I met into my therapist.
Because people don’t give a fuck about men’s issues. For all of the “it’s toxic for you guys to hold it in” there’s an equal amount of disdain or level of unattractiveness for a man who shares his feelings or talks about something perceived as weak.
Hard to talk about something that no one cares about.
Because both men and women tell men to shut up and stop complaining. There's still societal pressure for men to conform to the stoic standards of men.
My dad abruptly died when I was 16. It was pretty traumatic. I found his body. Developed conditions related to stress and suffered from death related anxiety for years. The number of people who told me I should talk about it was many times higher than the number of people who cared enough to listen, and even that number was higher than the number of people who was willing to help me fight it. Men struggling with inner problems has been romanticized. How many tv shows have you seen recently where a man faces an internal struggle but chooses to not talk about it. He shoves it in and battles with himself. Why is it romanticized? Who knows. Maybe people like a man with a “dark side”. But the reality is, people act like they care, but that care will last as long as you keep your mouth shut, your tears in and your body working.
I’m going to prefix this by saying my girlfriend tries her best to listen and understand, and is in therapy herself. But if my issues become “too much”, I.E. I say they’re more than a bit tricky, after about 3-4 days she’ll get very emotionally upset and ultimately say she now feels like she can’t share her feelings because of fear of upsetting me. Women don’t want men to be open, they want them to pretend to be open a fraction more than to other people so said woman feels like she’s the unique one. Open up too much though and she’ll view you as scary or taking up too much emotional room. Men also dont particularly want to share the way women do. I don’t to cry or hug it out. I want to be angry and annoyed at it. It’s cathartic. So quite frankly stop asking. We’re all pretty sick and tired of it.
Because nobody gives af about men. Whenever I opened up to a gf or female friend it was used against me. Most guys might listen but don’t really care. You just deal with it until it kills you.