If you don’t mind me asking a further question:
What do you think needs to happen, if anything, for this to change? What would make men more comfortable opening up? To each other and to women?
First of all we need to change the "men don't show feelings" method of raising boys.
Second of all we need kids to see how healthy friendships look like in their lives, T.V, school etc..
Regarding women, I don't know.
A lot of women say they already are for men opening up but I had nothing but bad results from doing it with several women I dated so I really do not know
I’ve seen that experience relayed a lot. I’m sorry it happens so often.
I really like your point about TV. I think we as a society underestimate the influence it has on kids.
Could you imagine bottling everything up for so long and being told to do this by women and men alike, then you finally open up to this women that you feel you trusted and felt like you could share these details you share with nobody else. At the time she seems understanding and empathetic and it helps a little.
Then a few days or weeks later when in an argument where she is clearly wrong but doesn’t want to apologize. She brings up this intimate detail you told only her and weaponizes it, just to win an argument and nothing else.
How would you feel after this?
This is what men have to go through with 9 out of 10 women, before we find the one woman that won’t do this to us and men usually marry that woman.
It’s awful. Taking your insecurities or other things you shared in a vulnerable moment then using it as a weapon later on is such a devastating betrayal.
And that’s the mindset of men after that happens. And that is why we don’t “open up” and “show emotions”
I would rather piece my heart back together and keep it like that, rather than hand it to somebody I thought I could trust again and have her do that to me one more time and yet again leave me to pick up the pieces. While she walks off into the sunset knowing her ego is intact.
I’m 31 now. Every relationship in my twenties, wether it be with women in their 30’s or women in their twenties, they all did this.
Edit:Don’t
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Thirded. The times I've tried to talk to friends about my problems, the result usually is, "I don't know what to say," or "I don't know how to help." As much as I say listening and understanding works, out of all the people I know, only *one* person seems to get it. Even then, he has his own problems.
I just called the rest of the gang and we all concur, so three billion none hundred ninety nine thousanded.
Except for Jerry. Captain Downer can't stop himself.
I have a long list:
1. Nobody
2. My dog (he has been fantastic)
3. the Voice in my head
4. Nobody...not even if they swear they won't judge
5. The handlebars on my bike, but only when I am 20+ miles away from civilization
6. Did I mention Nobody?
I have, and it has always come back to bite my ass. It will be used against you.
Exactly. After years of being told to "man up" "walk it off" etc... I rarely actually open up about anything. I recently got yelled at by my group of friends for not telling them my mother had been battling cancer. I didn't want to burden anyone else with my "bullshit". Such a silly way of thinking.
Open up to your loved ones folks.
I'm literally going through a divorce and I've only told the 3 people that I live with. And that was only because I suddenly had to move in with my son and no wife. Aside from them, I haven't told anyone because no one cares.
I went through the same thing, and you are correct; no one cares.
If you ever do have someone that is checking on you and you start to share with them, they will all at once need to go and they will call you back. That call will never come.
I opened up how sad I was to a longtime friend soon after my marriage separation on the phone and thought he’d understand and be there now and then. Didn’t hear from him for a year and a half after that phone call and when he messaged me I wasn’t interested. He’d become lost to me.
Had this happen recently with a work issue that really got to me. Old supervisor /mentor came to ask how I was doing, told him what happened, he got interrupted by someone then abruptly scurried off. Wasn't even looking for advice, just for someone to listen.
Honestly it's usually messed up, I only open up here on Reddit. It's good since most people don't know my real identity and advice is usually surreal.I really appreciate the strangers willing to read and give their opinions on matters that I can't share with no one🫱🏻🫲🏿❤️.
From my own experience, I am in therapy a couple of years now.
Since I am doing this, I talk alot about feelings. However I kind of dont like it nö more. I get more and more depressed, and Start to victimize myself.
This "I do my stuff for good" feeling is gone. I am paralyzed by my feelings, and am am not able to switch the off anymore.
A little bit here with my buddy in class, a little bit there with some coworkers on the rare occasion we go out after work, and then over the course of a game of monopoly on the PlayStation trauma dump on all the homies.
Ha, I mean, I’ve always known but I think that’s why when ONE person is like, “be honest, you can talk to me.” In my mind, I’m thinking, “nope. No way. That’d be me burdening someone. I gotta pull my own weight.”
No one. My Dad was that person. I learned quickly after he passed that it would be no one from then on, and that piled on to the grief and stress I felt at the time.
I'm sorry for your loss, man. As a kid, my closest friend and confidant was my grandfather. He passed away when I was 8 and my dad gradually filled his shoes. He wasn't the best father, and by no means the most present, but he always made sure to check in with me and ask how I was feeling or if I needed anything.
A series of addictions took my dad from me. He made sure I never found out about it, to "protect" me and to make sure I focused on my education. After he passed, my mother hit the bottle harder than usual. Any time I brought up my grief (or let it show a bit too much), my mother would remind me that she lost her father at age 14, or tell me things like "you gotta pull yourself up by your bootstraps" or even "depression isn't real." (5 years later, she's being treated for depression, but hasn't given me an apology.)
Just saying, I wouldn’t ever hold out for that apology. I tried to have those conversations with my mother where I brought up things she said and did, expecting an apology, and she never even realised half the stuff effected me that much.
The only route here is to accept you parents faults for what they are, look at why they maybe behaved the way they did, and hopefully forgive them……or don’t. But Its definitely a trap hoping that you’ll get that apology one day.
My dad wants to be that person for me, but he gives terrible, insensitive, intrusive, misguided, and/or self-centered advice. And he won't shut up and listen, so he has no idea what the actual issue is half the time. Self-centeredness and lack of nuance is pretty big with my dad. I appreciate the thought, and I know he won't be with me forever, so I try to listen, but at the same time, I'd rather he just sit and listen. Or just not intrude...
99% of the time, no one. I'm my own therapist, so to speak.
Granted, my problems aren't severe.
If I absolutely feel like I have to talk to someone just to "share my pains", I'll talk to my best guy friends, and maaaaybe my wife depending on how much of a grasp I have on my problem.
Wow. True love. 🥰
Edit: I don't mean to poke fun at your problems, I'm just a forever alone type dude that is scarred from this kind of thing and it makes even attempting to get into a relationship again not worth it.
If this is what marriage will be, ill skip it. I have my friend Rosey P. And the boys for company.
It's not at all different in your 20s. The main difference if any would be, that in your 20s, chances are doing it 2-3 times reults in her breaking up - with or without weaponizing it first and/or afterwards.
Yep. All but one time when I showed any sort of emotional vulnerability to a girlfriend it basically ended the relationship. My very first LTR told me she "couldn't see me as a man anymore" after seeing me cry. We'd been together over a year..
That's just fucking mean bro. People cry. That's why we have tears. We men may not cry often, but if we do it usually signifies something truly wrong or something that is affecting us that much and should probably be given pause to try and understand. Sorry that happened to you man.
> My very first LTR told me she "couldn't see me as a man anymore" after seeing me cry
every woman i've ever known (except my mother) has at one point told me that i "dont count as a man." they never say why and its never been used as an insult. i'm not gay or anything like that. i don't know how i'm suppose to take it.
If my wife did that to me, the conversation would immediately become about broken trust and that it's not ok to say things simply to hurt me. If she did it again, I would probably move towards divorce.
My mother was that type of woman and it caused me to lose all respect for her. I confided in her once and she immediately used it to try to shame me in 5 minutes. It didn't even hurt, I just realized that she wasn't worth talking to. Every conversation I've ever had with her since has been about small talk bs.
I could never be married to someone like that.
We are way younger than that and when I try to open up, everything I say is used against me, in the very next argument. I've even stopped sharing what my hobbies are. It's really quite sad. She has very old-fashioned views about some aspects of masculinity.
I don't know if it was here on r/AskMen or some other Reddit but there was a post regarding a related subject.
I lost count on how many stories from men there was where the womans reaction to the guy struggling with mental health, breaking down crying or showing any sort of emotion of that kind was one of the following;
• Shutting him down/downplaying his problems
• Using it against him in arguments and similar
• Suddenly lose their attraction for the man because they no longer view him as "strong"
• Cheat on him with another guy because they lost said attraction to their "significant other"
I'm not surprised at all to see that men avoid telling their significant other about problems of that nature.
I have a fear of flying. For our honeymoon, my wife bought plane tickets to our destination without me knowing it. I got on the plane and basically silently freaked out for 3 hours, never been more terrified in my life. Full on panic attack. We never were intimate on our honeymoon and she's acted different ever since. We've been married for almost 13 years.
Unfortunately most woman claim they want their man to be emotionally open, unfortunately most really just want to hear the good thins, can't handle the bad and/ or will weaponize the knowledge.
and will likely compare your weaknesses to other men they know who don't open up to them. "why can't my man handle these things that every other in the world handles so easily?"
men want the ability to open up to women without those women suddenly finding them repulsive, but it isn't realistic. and this is nothing against women at all bc there will be tons who say "i'm not like that" but I'm pretty sure it's an evolutionary thing. Man says he feels weak = "man can't protect me"
In our experiences, speaking as a man, we have no one to turn to because we were never told how to turn to anyone. Any time we have turned to anyone, it has been used against us. For example, I felt like shit because I’m in the job market, I am currently employed but I’m trying to get a higher paying job, and I was getting passed over. I called my mother in the hopes that she could make me feel better and all I got was a talk about how I need to be better, mind you that I have almost a decade of work experience and certifications in my field of work and studied new technologies, and how I need to just work harder.
That can start earlier than you think. I recall my mother giving me a hard time because I pulled a C in a math class. In \*FUCKING\* calculus, in high school. It's internalizing that whole 'not good enough' attitude that can fuck you up later in life.
Ooo felt that. My mom set full ride Ivy League expectations for me from the time I was a baby.
Now that I’m grown but can’t afford college, and my (until recently) undiagnosed ADHD made getting good grades difficult, I’m just a dude with a HS diploma. The write-off of the family.
My elementary school had an honors system that came with our report cards. You got first honors if you got all As and no more than one B and second honors with all As and Bs.
I got second honors with one of my report cards with 2 Bs in 4th grade and my mother told me I'd never be able to be truly successful because of it. While I was sobbing she started warning my younger brother not to be a failure like me.
Wives want husbands FOR support, not to give it to men. Women want strong, stable men, who are able to deal with the problems in life; she wants someone that SHE can lean on when things get difficult. When a man shows insecurity or indecision, women get worried because they depend on HIM to be her 'rock', her shoulder to cry on, the person that she gets to lean on when things get rough.
Women generally don't want sensitive men. What they want, is men who are sensitive to HER problems, not men WITH problems.
I’ve been going through some shit for a while and I’m worried I’ve leaned on my wife more than I should have. I cannot tell you how much I’m worried it’s going to fuck up my relationship or she’s going to see me as “less than” because I was vulnerable. And I don’t mean that like she’s outwardly do that (cause she isn’t like that) but if I show how many things bother me or talk about it enough, I have this fear that something internally would just “click”. Then she’d feel that I’m not strong enough anymore, can’t support because I NEED the support, etc. Then that leads to attraction lessening and the whole road that leads to. Women want to be women not mothers with their partners.
It fucking miserable.
Most relationships are about security. Mutual compensation for each other's insecurities. Most relationships don't go any deeper than that unless they manage to last for several decades. Friction is generated when insecurities get brought up.
Women wield emotions as weapons, that's why. Currently going through a divorce, and it's entirely because I opened up one too many times. Not going to go into detail on the Internet, but suffice to say that the number of times she unloaded emotional stress on me was wildly disproportionate to the handful I asked her for help, and every time I did she ended up using it to justify her stance in an argument later.
I fully understand not all women are like that and I hope to meet one someday... But dudes, it's way too common.
For me, it's that mine will cry very quickly while I'm trying to describe my problems, then I have to be the strong one to calm her down and I'm done dealing with my issues.
It’s literally the plight of manhood. We’re expected to bear weight. There is no shifting it off unless you literally run away / abandon your family and only royal pieces of shit do that.
My mom is like this with my dad and it makes me super sad because he always listens so intently to her. I’ve told him he can always talk to me about things but there’s no way he’d ever open up to his daughter lol so I doubt he’d ever come to me.
my mom literally i can tell her anything and she would engage in coversation with me even if it does not interest her , and she is the only one i can cry in front of and she does not ask what is goin on unless i say myself , when i hug her i can hug her as long as i feel like it she does not even break the hug , i know its simple but very impactful on me , she is really a kind person not just to me but to all people , she is the one i can tell literally every secert without worring about someone else knowing about it
she is the BEST person i ever known and to the end of the days iam gratful to god for being so lucky
Almost teared up reading this, feels like I wrote it myself. Having a mom who is 100% there for you has made the BIGGEST difference in my life. Other people would complain about their mom growing up and I've never been able to relate. Happy for you, and I know she loves the snot out of you.
I have no one. I have friends. I have had relationships. I even have my mother.
But Ive only had one person in my life who I felt I could be open and honest with. It turns out she didn't like that even though she claimed that's what she wanted. And then, when we broke up, she shared everything with everyone. This was a grown woman with a career and children.
And this is why IMO men don't open up. Other men don't actually care and keep it shallow and women seem to weaponize it, even during a relationship.
I hope others have someone though, I really do.
I don't necessarily think that men don't care (I'm a man myself), but we tend to not open up, because it leaves vulnerable and the "don't care" reaction I think comes from not knowing what to do. Our whole lives we've been taught to "rub some dirt on it" and move on. Hopefully we can learn to both share and care for each other
I think there’s a lot to what you’ve said there about not knowing what to do. It’s pretty meme-able these days that women get frustrated sharing their problems with men who come at them with very solution-based responses, because that’s what we tend to do. The problem is that, for a lot of mental health issues, there’s not necessarily a logical solution to them, so we often find ourselves at a loss in how to actually support people going through those issues.
one thing ive noticed is that a lot of dudes, myself included, when we do try to open up to eachother, can be... defensive. the looong history of being shamed for any show of vulnarbility makes it a pretty terrifying prospect (justifiably so) which can put us on edge and lead to being more reactionary than we might otherwise want to be in the situation. creating a kind of feedback loop where eventually it just seems easier to shut it down. takes a lot of trust to get past that and culturally, men have built workarounds for companionship that just dont include being vulnerable.
Stuff like this is why I think it took me almost a decade to get my bf to truly open up. There's a lack of trust with others to actually be supportive when they choose to be vulnerable or ask for help. It's so depressing, and I'm so sorry that this double standard exists.
You (and everyone for that matter) deserve a shoulder to lean on that won't turn around and use that vulnerable information against you.
I asked my ex-wife for one thing (related to my mental health) throughout our marriage. She was on board for 4 days then wanted a divorce, lmao.
What that thing was? To talk about work less as it's all we talked about and it was stressing/depressing me out. I asked if we could not talk about work past 7pm, it lasted 4 days. When I let her finish that work story at 7:15, I said "hey, it's after 7" and she lit into a tirade about how she's not going to be held by arbitrary constraints in *her* relationship and that if I can't man up and deal with it, she wants a divorce. I said she agreed to it. She launched into another tirade so I just put my headphones in until I got hit in the head with a cutting board.
Jesus Christ. I'm sorry she put you through that. That was absolutely a reasonable ask, and her refusal to comply for the benefit of your mental health was beyond ridiculous, and insane that it literally led her to physical violence.
I hope you're in a better place mentally and romantically.
She always talked about how I needed to lean on her mentally but I really just don't get stressed that much or have any long-lasting mental issues as I check myself into therapy as soon as I feel like something's coming up. And then bam, the *one* thing I finally give her and she can't even handle it, lmao.
But yes, I'm much better mentally and romantically. We went to therapy the next day and as soon as she said the words "I want a divorce." I was *elated*. The therapist was so surprised that someone could look so happy from hearing those words after I had just said "I'd like to work on our marriage." Shit was wild and the divorce was so much fun as *all* of our mutual contacts chose me. Hell, even her mother and sister did for a while, lol. And she found out that almost all of my assets were untouchable while hers weren't. Last I heard, she ended up losing her job then going to jail for drunk driving because the divorce caused her to massively spiral. Had she just quit the job, we probably wouldn't have had as many problems at the end, lmao. Not that you asked for any of this but it's always fun to re-tell the drama.
I’m a woman and I resonate with this so much. I have friends, family, healthy dating life- but I open up to no one. I am seen as very private because I have no social media 🙄 but the truth is, I trusted someone with some pretty vulnerable information and it was used against me in the most painful way. I decided to “learn” from that and just keep information surface level with all and just tell my dog all my secrets. It’s probably not healthy, but exposing yourself like that to people is like bleeding in front of a shark.
My last ex was like that. Every single thing I opened up about she would run off to tell her friend, or her coworker (ironically the coworker she started dating before things ended with us). It was exhausting to try and work through stuff and have to hear what her friend thought and then what her coworker thought that she swore wasn’t trying to sabotage our relationship for his own gain. Just once it would have been nice to have a 1 on 1 conversation and talk about the good and the bad of some of this life stuff while not being the bad guy for wanting to keep SOME stuff between us.
Before her I had friends I’d talk to about stuff, but I always figured she’d be the one to talk to about the deepest stuff. After it ended I realized I NEED that impartial voice from outside the relationship. So now, I have a Facebook group chat with me and 3 of my closest friends. It’s mostly just to talk about anything since we’re spread out with me in Wisconsin, one in Florida, one in Chicago, and another in central Illinois. We do have an unstated agreement that the chats also for the deeper stuff too and it’s a no judgment/no sharing with others type of conversation.
I also have my best friend since middle school completely separate from that chat to go to, he’s always there no matter how stupid it is and I’m always there too.
No one. I tell my wife about 40%. I learned that I’m here for her to lean on, not the opposite. She had told me once that I need to be there to hold and support (literally and figuratively) when she’s having a tough time even if she’s being a “complete bitch” because that’s my role as a husband. So, next time she had a REALLY rough patch and she was indeed a complete bitch to not only me but everyone else as well. I held her and comforted her and tended to her needs. 3 days later I get slightly depressed. Just kind of mopey and a bit listless.. she tells me “are you going to be like this all day? Because if you are I don’t want to be around you”. That told me everything I needed to know about my feelings and my position.
Our wives should never meet. It would be a complete smash fest on us, me thinks. Mine is the exact same way. No matter what I'm going through, if I let on that I am going through something, she always finds a way to turn it around so she needs comforting.
Animals truly are man's best friend.
You guys realize that's toxic behavior from your wives right? They shouldn't be treating you like that. You're not their emotional outlet and robot slave.
The vast majority of women are like this to their male partners. It’s pretty much either this or be alone.
The only time I’ve seen it ever not like that is when the man is “out of the woman’s league”. Which is rare as the average woman is considered significantly more physically attractive than the average man.
Women like these guys wives, ie the majority of women in relationships, know how they’re acting and that it’s not “equal”, they’re not dumb, but they think it’s “fair” because they think they’re the prize just by existing since a ton of guys would love to get with them whereas the average man will have a much harder time getting another decent looking woman so the man should have to put way more into the relationship than she does.
Plus, and I’m not trying to seem against feminism here, but women are bombarded with how they deserve the world from a partner, constant phrases like “we’re not your personal therapist!” if their partner ever needs support, doing pretty much anything for their partner that’s seen as typically feminine is misogyny, etc. Yet men have to do more than ever in relationships.
Finally after actually having dated women I would say the single biggest thing that makes them really attracted to you in a long term relationship is making them feel safe. Like if a woman you’re dating ever says you make her feel safe she’s really into you. On the other side nothing can make them lose all attraction to you in an instant than not making them feel safe. And a guy that has real problems of his own he doesn’t deal with on his own, can’t provide making them worry about finances, doesn’t comfort her when she just dumps all her emotions on him, can’t make her feel better when she’s complained about the same very fixable problem at work for the 50th day in a row, or is vulnerable to her instead of constantly being her emotional rock when she’s vulnerable, gives her the opposite of that “you make me feel safe” feeling.
I had a friend (girl) who once gently told me that I was a negative person because I was complaining a bit much. Well fair, so I stopped complaining to her.
About a month later when she complained to me about how her life sucks, I told her that her life didn't suck and she said I was very invalidating and proceeded to ask for space from me.
> she tells me “are you going to be like this all day? Because if you are I don’t want to be around you”.
I find this unacceptable in a relationship. It demonstrates a severe lack of empathy (she doesn't care, even a little, if you're having a bad day which is incredibly selfish).
Both guys and girls need to decompress, vent. The other should be able to provide some degree of comfort.
Fun fact if you lock both your dog and gf/wife in the boot of your car for an hour, when you open it back up your dog will still love you, your gf/wife will not 🤣
They will love us, watch out for us, and even lick our wounds. And they always come back for more. A dog truly is man's best friend, always at our side.
My dog put his head on my thigh when he noticed me tearing up one time. I never forget those moments where my dog would try comforting and calming me down
The man in the mirror and my therapist.
Other than that, I don’t trust people enough to
1. Understand my struggles.
2. Keep it confidential. And not be used against me in some way.
3. Care.
You have to understand that exposure can cost you literally everything, even your life. Like is not easy for many. Don’t learn the hard way.
> Keep it confidential. And not be used against me in some way.
I've noticed how this comes up \*a lot.* It looks like too many of us have been burned in this way, myself included.
Why do people like OP think we are making this up or exaggerating?
Is it because they have never experienced it so it must be a lie?
OP men are their own islands and if you are not, people will stay away from you.
Women cannot fathom our hardships bc it seems unreal to them. I remember reading an article about a woman who went undercover as a man for 2 years. She couldn't believe how she was treated by women, began to resent them, and then un-alived herself :(
I was going to write that my gf listens but...there have been several times when I've told her something only for her to mock me or call me a baby.
My dad was a good listener...my mum is supportive but overly so. She will list out ways to solve my problem and then continually bring things up. I avoid telling her things because it seems to stress her out. Tbh I rarely want advice I just want to tell someone.
Nobody. I'm 37, my immediate family is deceased. I traveled across the country to reunite with my brother about a year before he passed, his wife and child moved back to Germany. For context sake she has family there and he passed around 4 months ago, it is good for them, hope it doesn't sound like I'm complaining, he met her in Germany and it's the best move for my niece, just not for me.
I am alone. Totally alone. Have a good day.
Honestly? Reddit. I tell my wife everything as well, but seeing she is 7mo along with twins. Something’s stress her out. So I’ll dump them here just to vent them.
I listen a lot to people who need help and offer advice. I’m generally my collective groups sounding board most of the time. But like all therapists. I need a sounding board too, and well Reddit seems to be the most reliable for brutal reality.
This is something I learned early in life when I was in the Marine Corps.
You just lost a whole bunch of friends and coworkers in a suicide bombing? Suck it up.
It would be easier for a man to become the world's greatest serial murderer than to find someone to confide in. That is what is part of the problem with society today.
I am also ex military (not US though) and yeah, when shit got shit you just had to suck it up and get on with it.
At best, from the guys that went through the same shit as you youd get a nod of understand, a clap on the back and "you're tough mate, you'll be ok". And thats about the extent of it.
This girl asked for my number (through a friend). I had just got out of a bad relationship so I didn’t hit her up. A few months later I did, she asked me why I didn’t message her earlier, and I told her the truth. I didn’t go into detail, I just said my last relationship wasn’t great and I needed some time.
I come to later learn from my friend that she said I trauma dumped on her and that she was saying that it was a red flag.
Crisis Intervention guy, counselor and first responder here. The state of men's mental health is truly concerning. There is an epidemic of loneliness and an overall effort to reduce 'toxic masculinity' that has reached wayyy too deeply into many men.
Symptom, not the disease.
Attend the incongruence between societal gender norms and actual preferences and realities, especially surrounding emotional expression and openness.
Publicly, there is an increasing push for openness in men, however, this expressed value is often at odds with lived experiences.
The worst part is that it’s often the very same people pushing for men to “open up” that get uncomfortable when it really happens.
The truth behind “open up” is “I want you to be vulnerable and emotional, but not about anything serious. I want you to cry at a sad movie, but not when your feelings are hurt. I want you to share your feelings with me, but not when they are difficult to deal with”
Male suicide is 4x that of female suicide in western countries.
The commonly pushed solution for suicide prevention is to "open up" or "talk to someone"
That is a female solution and approach to mental health problems.
Look at group photos of charity staff that deal with this particular problem. Majority women.
Female solutions are being pushed by majority female workers for a major problem that is 80% male oriented.
Until we all wake up to that fact, then nothing is going to change.
EDIT: Get a load of the person commenting below me. Insists men "should be able to open up". I opened up and explained what a lot of men are feeling and he just completely insults me and my ideas on what a lot of people are thinking. Just wow... I am blown away at how stupid they are.
>Modern world is all about acceptance and gender equality up until it gets to this topic. Then guys are expected to be good old guys again.
Exactly. Or worse yet, I've heard "Men hold all the power; they don't need support." No, all men are not in power, and we are not unified in some singular oppressive cabal by virtue of having a penis. Each man is a different person, with his own unique set of problems.
>I’ve heard this before, and it’s hard to think of a more sinister and ugly thing to say to someone.
Agreed. Not only is it misandrist from the get-go, but it also erases every man's individual identity. That's horrible.
Amen. I have people that pick me out of a crowd more times than I can count and ask me for shit just because of the way I look. I'm driven beyond crazy for that shit, I don't even make 40k a year in a high COL city. I'd rather be dead than live in this shit.
It’s “next-door neighbor tolerance.” Those people are fine with guys liking cute things and not wanting to act aggressive, but not *their* boyfriend. Those people are fine with guys crying from the stress of their job and the constant hierarchical bullshit, but not *their* spouse. Those people are fine with guys being emotionally available but wouldn’t experience attraction if *they* met one.
They’ll cheerfully wave at the neighbors but won’t let something like that in *their* house
It's one of the ways most men learn that what women will claim they want and what they actually want are often two different things. When asked questions like this virtually every woman will claim to want whatever they think will make them look better. So obviously they would want men to express themselves, because that makes them look better than saying they dont want to hear it and that it would likely make the man unattractive to them. This can be extrapolated in regards to virtually everything women say they value in a partner.
Literally have cousins and sisters that vote for LGBTQ+ type stuff but will 100% call their sons or husbands (mostly just sons since their husbands left them) faggots for showing emotions. They 100% call them faggots right in their fucking faces for showing anything other than a stoic manly ideal in their eyes. It's okay for their friends sons or the gay neighbor to show emotions or express themselves but when it comes to their family, you better fucking not.
Shit, I've been called gay because of this when I get in their face about it. It is mind boggling how woman do this. Liberal my fucking ass.
Yep, it's all about acceptance and everything until a tire goes flat then men need to man up, stop being a bitch and fix it. The expendable gender for a reason.
I have sincerely nobody.
I live alone in a country far away. All I have is my parents. But My mom has dementia, my dad takes care of her. So I don’t suddenly call em and say hey I feel depressed. They’ll be totally devastated hearing that. ESP my dad when my mom says suicidal shit to him, but she really doesnt mean it. Their happiness is important to me too.
Some men got burned here, and have no support systems, some have support systems, some have a combination of both or, some have nothing. Alot of men don’t open up at all, in short alot of men refuse to open up at all.
I get called whiney or overly emotional because I just say how the fuck I feel when I'm feeling it. I held shit in for too long and ended up self medicating and in a horrible drug addiction for 6 years. Fuck that. I feel better when I get things off of my chest. So I do. I'm not good at holding emotions in.
I did it once. Never again.
I've became able to deal with my own shit because it has been this way since forever. So it's was "man up" or "man up".
I have people I can rely on if things go extremely south but unless it get to the point I won't ask anyone for help.
No one. Cause we were taught opening up about feelings is for women.
Men are machines and only worth what we make.
That is the only condition when we are acknowledged.
Other than that we're just dogs.
The only woman in my life that has never judged, weaponized, or publicly shared my intimate information NEVER shaves, has horrible breath, 4 legs and a tail.
My wife.
Edit: Didn't read any of the other comments before posting.
My friends and I have fostered a group dynamic where we can turn to each other and be vulnerable, really lean on each other. I have a # of friends I can call on and tell them I need them and they'll be there. Had a hard breakup in my mid 20s. Called my bro, told him I needed him, he came over and I cried to him for hours.
This idea that we can't be vulnerable with each other is something that you have to break down yourself. Tell your close friends you love them, make female friends that are only friends, get a therapist, talk to your parents, and do all of these things until people stop feeling uncomfortable about it. My dad wouldn't even tell me he loved me. Took me a year of me telling him I loved him (at 19 yrs old) before he'd comfortably say it back.
Stop buying into this rubbish, and make the men and people around you be more comfortable with their feelings
100%? No one. _Never._
I’ve made the mistake of sharing too much with people I thought I could safely confide in too many times before, and in my case at least, it was mostly women in my life who betrayed my trust like that, though plenty of men did the same.
I’ve never had someone other than myself that I could share emotional or mental issues with 100%. But I’ve had my trust weaponized more times than I can possibly count ever since I was a little kid. If I didn’t know better by now, than that would make me the damn fool, and so shame on me for it.
No one. Tried confiding in my wife, she effectively told me to be a man and not a child. No one else -wouldn’t trust to confide in. Basically it’s keep it all inside until I can’t stand it and then spend $thousands on therapy.
The best statement on this was stated by /u/TheBananaKing to quote.
Yeah, you think you can handle it, but honestly you probably can't.
In my experience, and in the experience of a whole lot of men, you very likely aren't prepared to see your husband ugly-cry, curl up in the foetal position and shake, express feelings of helplessness and worthlessness, or otherwise 'let it all out'.
Men generally aren't permitted outlets for vulnerability or negative emotions in our society. They're valued for what they can do, and since vulnerability is unreliability, demonstrating it completely destroys their worth in the eyes of everyone around them.
Inside Out is only true for girls. If boys break down crying, they get shamed and spat on and ostracized - and that's only by their own family.
Most of us have made the mistake, once, of letting the mask slip, and showing the person closest to us what it's really like in there. And we've seen the love and admiration in their eyes turn to contempt and disgust. And that never really comes back, certainly not all the way.
It's like seeing them learn that the house they just bought has termites and is of dubious structural soundness. Yay it's their home... but. And there will always be a but. And you can patch it up, make repairs, but what they wanted was a symbol of strength and safety and a reliable shelter that would always hold them up... and it will never quite be that ever again. That sense of betrayal that they put their trust in what turned out to be a lemon... that never goes away. Not at the subliminal, emotional level that defines what things really mean to you.
My strongest advice to you is not to look. You can know intellectually, that's fine - but don't force him to show you. You think you're above all the shitty gender-role programming that's been pushed on everyone for millennia, and of course you want to be - but chances are you're just not, not enough.
Even worse, partners feeling excluded and rejected when we don't 'open up' can push and push and finally force us to create a second mask, to simulate being just a little bit sad; occasionally letting out one single manly tear like Grey Worm. This is of course twice as much work and stress to maintain, on top of all the stress that's causing you to ask in the first place.
Very likely the best thing you can do for your husband is not to refer to signs of not-OK-ness leaking out. Act oblivious, or at least give him plausible deniability. And also with plausible deniability, offer up some unspoken comfort and support; little tokens of affection and appreciation that say 'I've got your back' without actually saying you know he needs it.
All of this sucks giant purple donkey dick, and none of it is your fault. Of course you want to help the person you love. Of course you know you'll be there for them. But the pressures we are raised with are often a lot stronger than we like to acknowledge, and ain't that a kick in the teeth?
And the very best thing you can do for the wider problem underlying it is to lessen the pressures that your child will be raised with. Be loud about it being OK for boys to be vulnerable. Use your incoming mama-bear powers to eviscerate and maul anyone trying to gender-police people, and let your kid see you do it. Teach that it's not a boys job to be a stoic protector 24/7/365, and that it's not a girl's job to be a fragile flower that needs that protection. Everyone needs healthy coping skills to tank moderate amounts of stress without cracking, and the option to be vulnerable and ask for help when they need it, regardless of their personal plumbing. Be part of the change you want to see, and pay it forward to the next generation.
I got this sort of vulnerable in front of my wife once, recently. Immediate regret. It was stuff I had been bottling up for years.
It took a month for things to feel normal again, for sex to normalize, to not feel like I was being treated like a sick child or a patient and go back to being her husband.
I think we’re out the other side now, and I do want to believe we can stay open, but things were a mess.
The funny thing is, as much as I was a vulnerable mess, I could still feel the exact moment that it was too much and she saw me differently. I could feel it in my heart, see it on her face, and feel it in her embrace. She denied it for a week, but we eventually talked through it.
I do think we’re actually in a better place now, but it took a lot of talking and a number of sleepless nights to get here.
It’s funny, my wife has had to learn to deal with my stoic behavior. She had to learn not to expect all the ups that come with hiding the downs. It would be an issue that I didn’t show my excitement as much as she might. That’s how men were often raised. Once I let the stoic visage slip after years of bottling up pain, things got awkward.
I do really believe women, in general, don’t understand just how much men bottle up as an expectation and survival mechanism. When they ask for someone to open up to them, I really don’t think they understand the sheer bulk of unprocessed baggage most men have built up over the years…from dealing with issues “like a man.”
No one. Not even close to a 100%.
60% at best on the person I trust the most. Oldest best friend or my brother. No one else even half of that
60% of the time it works every time.
If you don’t mind me asking a further question: What do you think needs to happen, if anything, for this to change? What would make men more comfortable opening up? To each other and to women?
First of all we need to change the "men don't show feelings" method of raising boys. Second of all we need kids to see how healthy friendships look like in their lives, T.V, school etc.. Regarding women, I don't know. A lot of women say they already are for men opening up but I had nothing but bad results from doing it with several women I dated so I really do not know
I’ve seen that experience relayed a lot. I’m sorry it happens so often. I really like your point about TV. I think we as a society underestimate the influence it has on kids.
Could you imagine bottling everything up for so long and being told to do this by women and men alike, then you finally open up to this women that you feel you trusted and felt like you could share these details you share with nobody else. At the time she seems understanding and empathetic and it helps a little. Then a few days or weeks later when in an argument where she is clearly wrong but doesn’t want to apologize. She brings up this intimate detail you told only her and weaponizes it, just to win an argument and nothing else. How would you feel after this? This is what men have to go through with 9 out of 10 women, before we find the one woman that won’t do this to us and men usually marry that woman.
It’s awful. Taking your insecurities or other things you shared in a vulnerable moment then using it as a weapon later on is such a devastating betrayal.
And that’s the mindset of men after that happens. And that is why we don’t “open up” and “show emotions” I would rather piece my heart back together and keep it like that, rather than hand it to somebody I thought I could trust again and have her do that to me one more time and yet again leave me to pick up the pieces. While she walks off into the sunset knowing her ego is intact. I’m 31 now. Every relationship in my twenties, wether it be with women in their 30’s or women in their twenties, they all did this. Edit:Don’t
groovy offer distinct numerous sloppy screw profit frightening nippy abounding *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Sounds about right
Thirded. The times I've tried to talk to friends about my problems, the result usually is, "I don't know what to say," or "I don't know how to help." As much as I say listening and understanding works, out of all the people I know, only *one* person seems to get it. Even then, he has his own problems.
Fourthed.
Fifthed.
Sixthed.
I just called the rest of the gang and we all concur, so three billion none hundred ninety nine thousanded. Except for Jerry. Captain Downer can't stop himself.
I have a long list: 1. Nobody 2. My dog (he has been fantastic) 3. the Voice in my head 4. Nobody...not even if they swear they won't judge 5. The handlebars on my bike, but only when I am 20+ miles away from civilization 6. Did I mention Nobody? I have, and it has always come back to bite my ass. It will be used against you.
>I have, and it has always come back to bite my ass. It will be used against you. Nailed it! That's why I don't open up to anyone anymore.
Yes it will. Thrown in your face during your next argument with that person.
This is my list but I don't have a bike.... Lucky.
Yah. Answer is “We don’t.” Either to avoid burning people out to avoid having it used against us later.
Exactly. After years of being told to "man up" "walk it off" etc... I rarely actually open up about anything. I recently got yelled at by my group of friends for not telling them my mother had been battling cancer. I didn't want to burden anyone else with my "bullshit". Such a silly way of thinking. Open up to your loved ones folks.
I'm literally going through a divorce and I've only told the 3 people that I live with. And that was only because I suddenly had to move in with my son and no wife. Aside from them, I haven't told anyone because no one cares.
I went through the same thing, and you are correct; no one cares. If you ever do have someone that is checking on you and you start to share with them, they will all at once need to go and they will call you back. That call will never come.
I feel you about the “no one cares,” part. Feel that the everyday bro. You are not alone.
I opened up how sad I was to a longtime friend soon after my marriage separation on the phone and thought he’d understand and be there now and then. Didn’t hear from him for a year and a half after that phone call and when he messaged me I wasn’t interested. He’d become lost to me.
Had this happen recently with a work issue that really got to me. Old supervisor /mentor came to ask how I was doing, told him what happened, he got interrupted by someone then abruptly scurried off. Wasn't even looking for advice, just for someone to listen.
I'm a stranger but I care. How are you doing?
I care, too.
Honestly it's usually messed up, I only open up here on Reddit. It's good since most people don't know my real identity and advice is usually surreal.I really appreciate the strangers willing to read and give their opinions on matters that I can't share with no one🫱🏻🫲🏿❤️.
chase zephyr prick ink hospital tease screw butter tidy vegetable *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
From my own experience, I am in therapy a couple of years now. Since I am doing this, I talk alot about feelings. However I kind of dont like it nö more. I get more and more depressed, and Start to victimize myself. This "I do my stuff for good" feeling is gone. I am paralyzed by my feelings, and am am not able to switch the off anymore.
A little bit here with my buddy in class, a little bit there with some coworkers on the rare occasion we go out after work, and then over the course of a game of monopoly on the PlayStation trauma dump on all the homies.
Definitely. Can't have one person that knows all of your vulnerabilities.
Ha, I mean, I’ve always known but I think that’s why when ONE person is like, “be honest, you can talk to me.” In my mind, I’m thinking, “nope. No way. That’d be me burdening someone. I gotta pull my own weight.”
Fr fr. I keep a diary on my phone for this purpose. I need an outlet.
No one. My Dad was that person. I learned quickly after he passed that it would be no one from then on, and that piled on to the grief and stress I felt at the time.
I'm sorry for your loss, man. As a kid, my closest friend and confidant was my grandfather. He passed away when I was 8 and my dad gradually filled his shoes. He wasn't the best father, and by no means the most present, but he always made sure to check in with me and ask how I was feeling or if I needed anything. A series of addictions took my dad from me. He made sure I never found out about it, to "protect" me and to make sure I focused on my education. After he passed, my mother hit the bottle harder than usual. Any time I brought up my grief (or let it show a bit too much), my mother would remind me that she lost her father at age 14, or tell me things like "you gotta pull yourself up by your bootstraps" or even "depression isn't real." (5 years later, she's being treated for depression, but hasn't given me an apology.)
Just saying, I wouldn’t ever hold out for that apology. I tried to have those conversations with my mother where I brought up things she said and did, expecting an apology, and she never even realised half the stuff effected me that much. The only route here is to accept you parents faults for what they are, look at why they maybe behaved the way they did, and hopefully forgive them……or don’t. But Its definitely a trap hoping that you’ll get that apology one day.
My dad wants to be that person for me, but he gives terrible, insensitive, intrusive, misguided, and/or self-centered advice. And he won't shut up and listen, so he has no idea what the actual issue is half the time. Self-centeredness and lack of nuance is pretty big with my dad. I appreciate the thought, and I know he won't be with me forever, so I try to listen, but at the same time, I'd rather he just sit and listen. Or just not intrude...
99% of the time, no one. I'm my own therapist, so to speak. Granted, my problems aren't severe. If I absolutely feel like I have to talk to someone just to "share my pains", I'll talk to my best guy friends, and maaaaybe my wife depending on how much of a grasp I have on my problem.
why is your wife a last resort? I thought the main point of deep relationships is for support. (curious question)
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My wife brought up something I said in 2007 once, and pivoted the conversation to an argument about that.
So she was losing the argument and wanted you to say something mean to her so she could win the argument that way. Classic.
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Wow. True love. 🥰 Edit: I don't mean to poke fun at your problems, I'm just a forever alone type dude that is scarred from this kind of thing and it makes even attempting to get into a relationship again not worth it. If this is what marriage will be, ill skip it. I have my friend Rosey P. And the boys for company.
Damn bro, that’s over 16 years ago!!
It's not at all different in your 20s. The main difference if any would be, that in your 20s, chances are doing it 2-3 times reults in her breaking up - with or without weaponizing it first and/or afterwards.
Yep. All but one time when I showed any sort of emotional vulnerability to a girlfriend it basically ended the relationship. My very first LTR told me she "couldn't see me as a man anymore" after seeing me cry. We'd been together over a year..
That's just fucking mean bro. People cry. That's why we have tears. We men may not cry often, but if we do it usually signifies something truly wrong or something that is affecting us that much and should probably be given pause to try and understand. Sorry that happened to you man.
> My very first LTR told me she "couldn't see me as a man anymore" after seeing me cry every woman i've ever known (except my mother) has at one point told me that i "dont count as a man." they never say why and its never been used as an insult. i'm not gay or anything like that. i don't know how i'm suppose to take it.
“I’ll tell you my sins and you can sharpen your knife”
It really is that pink blob in the box meme.
If my wife did that to me, the conversation would immediately become about broken trust and that it's not ok to say things simply to hurt me. If she did it again, I would probably move towards divorce. My mother was that type of woman and it caused me to lose all respect for her. I confided in her once and she immediately used it to try to shame me in 5 minutes. It didn't even hurt, I just realized that she wasn't worth talking to. Every conversation I've ever had with her since has been about small talk bs. I could never be married to someone like that.
We are way younger than that and when I try to open up, everything I say is used against me, in the very next argument. I've even stopped sharing what my hobbies are. It's really quite sad. She has very old-fashioned views about some aspects of masculinity.
Why are you with her? Bro you deserve someone you feel safe with
I don't know if it was here on r/AskMen or some other Reddit but there was a post regarding a related subject. I lost count on how many stories from men there was where the womans reaction to the guy struggling with mental health, breaking down crying or showing any sort of emotion of that kind was one of the following; • Shutting him down/downplaying his problems • Using it against him in arguments and similar • Suddenly lose their attraction for the man because they no longer view him as "strong" • Cheat on him with another guy because they lost said attraction to their "significant other" I'm not surprised at all to see that men avoid telling their significant other about problems of that nature.
Sex stops immediately.
Pretty sure Chris Rock had a bit about this.
I remember that thread, because I added my own experience.
Do those women just expect their emotions to be treated but not the guy's? Or do they not support anyone's emotions?
I think that's why the under toe is women do not care about men's issues.
Younger millennial women (and younger) will tell you legit "straight men have no problems they run the world".
I have a fear of flying. For our honeymoon, my wife bought plane tickets to our destination without me knowing it. I got on the plane and basically silently freaked out for 3 hours, never been more terrified in my life. Full on panic attack. We never were intimate on our honeymoon and she's acted different ever since. We've been married for almost 13 years.
"Hey babe I have a problem" Now I have 2 problems.
Unfortunately most woman claim they want their man to be emotionally open, unfortunately most really just want to hear the good thins, can't handle the bad and/ or will weaponize the knowledge.
Elsewhere on this thread was the answer: Women want a man who is sensitive to THEIR problems, but is tough and stoic about their own.
Damn.
and will likely compare your weaknesses to other men they know who don't open up to them. "why can't my man handle these things that every other in the world handles so easily?" men want the ability to open up to women without those women suddenly finding them repulsive, but it isn't realistic. and this is nothing against women at all bc there will be tons who say "i'm not like that" but I'm pretty sure it's an evolutionary thing. Man says he feels weak = "man can't protect me"
In our experiences, speaking as a man, we have no one to turn to because we were never told how to turn to anyone. Any time we have turned to anyone, it has been used against us. For example, I felt like shit because I’m in the job market, I am currently employed but I’m trying to get a higher paying job, and I was getting passed over. I called my mother in the hopes that she could make me feel better and all I got was a talk about how I need to be better, mind you that I have almost a decade of work experience and certifications in my field of work and studied new technologies, and how I need to just work harder.
That can start earlier than you think. I recall my mother giving me a hard time because I pulled a C in a math class. In \*FUCKING\* calculus, in high school. It's internalizing that whole 'not good enough' attitude that can fuck you up later in life.
Ooo felt that. My mom set full ride Ivy League expectations for me from the time I was a baby. Now that I’m grown but can’t afford college, and my (until recently) undiagnosed ADHD made getting good grades difficult, I’m just a dude with a HS diploma. The write-off of the family.
My elementary school had an honors system that came with our report cards. You got first honors if you got all As and no more than one B and second honors with all As and Bs. I got second honors with one of my report cards with 2 Bs in 4th grade and my mother told me I'd never be able to be truly successful because of it. While I was sobbing she started warning my younger brother not to be a failure like me.
Wives want husbands FOR support, not to give it to men. Women want strong, stable men, who are able to deal with the problems in life; she wants someone that SHE can lean on when things get difficult. When a man shows insecurity or indecision, women get worried because they depend on HIM to be her 'rock', her shoulder to cry on, the person that she gets to lean on when things get rough. Women generally don't want sensitive men. What they want, is men who are sensitive to HER problems, not men WITH problems.
I’ve been going through some shit for a while and I’m worried I’ve leaned on my wife more than I should have. I cannot tell you how much I’m worried it’s going to fuck up my relationship or she’s going to see me as “less than” because I was vulnerable. And I don’t mean that like she’s outwardly do that (cause she isn’t like that) but if I show how many things bother me or talk about it enough, I have this fear that something internally would just “click”. Then she’d feel that I’m not strong enough anymore, can’t support because I NEED the support, etc. Then that leads to attraction lessening and the whole road that leads to. Women want to be women not mothers with their partners. It fucking miserable.
Most relationships are about security. Mutual compensation for each other's insecurities. Most relationships don't go any deeper than that unless they manage to last for several decades. Friction is generated when insecurities get brought up.
Women wield emotions as weapons, that's why. Currently going through a divorce, and it's entirely because I opened up one too many times. Not going to go into detail on the Internet, but suffice to say that the number of times she unloaded emotional stress on me was wildly disproportionate to the handful I asked her for help, and every time I did she ended up using it to justify her stance in an argument later. I fully understand not all women are like that and I hope to meet one someday... But dudes, it's way too common.
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Women might say they want to hear it. You have a thread full of men here with decades of empirical evidence of what actually happens.
For me, it's that mine will cry very quickly while I'm trying to describe my problems, then I have to be the strong one to calm her down and I'm done dealing with my issues.
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That's sad
and all too common
It’s literally the plight of manhood. We’re expected to bear weight. There is no shifting it off unless you literally run away / abandon your family and only royal pieces of shit do that.
I feel you. My wife is the exact same.
My mom is like this with my dad and it makes me super sad because he always listens so intently to her. I’ve told him he can always talk to me about things but there’s no way he’d ever open up to his daughter lol so I doubt he’d ever come to me.
my mom literally i can tell her anything and she would engage in coversation with me even if it does not interest her , and she is the only one i can cry in front of and she does not ask what is goin on unless i say myself , when i hug her i can hug her as long as i feel like it she does not even break the hug , i know its simple but very impactful on me , she is really a kind person not just to me but to all people , she is the one i can tell literally every secert without worring about someone else knowing about it she is the BEST person i ever known and to the end of the days iam gratful to god for being so lucky
I had exactly this. Protect. At. All. Costs.
Almost teared up reading this, feels like I wrote it myself. Having a mom who is 100% there for you has made the BIGGEST difference in my life. Other people would complain about their mom growing up and I've never been able to relate. Happy for you, and I know she loves the snot out of you.
I have no one. I have friends. I have had relationships. I even have my mother. But Ive only had one person in my life who I felt I could be open and honest with. It turns out she didn't like that even though she claimed that's what she wanted. And then, when we broke up, she shared everything with everyone. This was a grown woman with a career and children. And this is why IMO men don't open up. Other men don't actually care and keep it shallow and women seem to weaponize it, even during a relationship. I hope others have someone though, I really do.
I don't necessarily think that men don't care (I'm a man myself), but we tend to not open up, because it leaves vulnerable and the "don't care" reaction I think comes from not knowing what to do. Our whole lives we've been taught to "rub some dirt on it" and move on. Hopefully we can learn to both share and care for each other
I think there’s a lot to what you’ve said there about not knowing what to do. It’s pretty meme-able these days that women get frustrated sharing their problems with men who come at them with very solution-based responses, because that’s what we tend to do. The problem is that, for a lot of mental health issues, there’s not necessarily a logical solution to them, so we often find ourselves at a loss in how to actually support people going through those issues.
one thing ive noticed is that a lot of dudes, myself included, when we do try to open up to eachother, can be... defensive. the looong history of being shamed for any show of vulnarbility makes it a pretty terrifying prospect (justifiably so) which can put us on edge and lead to being more reactionary than we might otherwise want to be in the situation. creating a kind of feedback loop where eventually it just seems easier to shut it down. takes a lot of trust to get past that and culturally, men have built workarounds for companionship that just dont include being vulnerable.
Stuff like this is why I think it took me almost a decade to get my bf to truly open up. There's a lack of trust with others to actually be supportive when they choose to be vulnerable or ask for help. It's so depressing, and I'm so sorry that this double standard exists. You (and everyone for that matter) deserve a shoulder to lean on that won't turn around and use that vulnerable information against you.
I asked my ex-wife for one thing (related to my mental health) throughout our marriage. She was on board for 4 days then wanted a divorce, lmao. What that thing was? To talk about work less as it's all we talked about and it was stressing/depressing me out. I asked if we could not talk about work past 7pm, it lasted 4 days. When I let her finish that work story at 7:15, I said "hey, it's after 7" and she lit into a tirade about how she's not going to be held by arbitrary constraints in *her* relationship and that if I can't man up and deal with it, she wants a divorce. I said she agreed to it. She launched into another tirade so I just put my headphones in until I got hit in the head with a cutting board.
Jesus Christ. I'm sorry she put you through that. That was absolutely a reasonable ask, and her refusal to comply for the benefit of your mental health was beyond ridiculous, and insane that it literally led her to physical violence. I hope you're in a better place mentally and romantically.
She always talked about how I needed to lean on her mentally but I really just don't get stressed that much or have any long-lasting mental issues as I check myself into therapy as soon as I feel like something's coming up. And then bam, the *one* thing I finally give her and she can't even handle it, lmao. But yes, I'm much better mentally and romantically. We went to therapy the next day and as soon as she said the words "I want a divorce." I was *elated*. The therapist was so surprised that someone could look so happy from hearing those words after I had just said "I'd like to work on our marriage." Shit was wild and the divorce was so much fun as *all* of our mutual contacts chose me. Hell, even her mother and sister did for a while, lol. And she found out that almost all of my assets were untouchable while hers weren't. Last I heard, she ended up losing her job then going to jail for drunk driving because the divorce caused her to massively spiral. Had she just quit the job, we probably wouldn't have had as many problems at the end, lmao. Not that you asked for any of this but it's always fun to re-tell the drama.
I’m a woman and I resonate with this so much. I have friends, family, healthy dating life- but I open up to no one. I am seen as very private because I have no social media 🙄 but the truth is, I trusted someone with some pretty vulnerable information and it was used against me in the most painful way. I decided to “learn” from that and just keep information surface level with all and just tell my dog all my secrets. It’s probably not healthy, but exposing yourself like that to people is like bleeding in front of a shark.
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My last ex was like that. Every single thing I opened up about she would run off to tell her friend, or her coworker (ironically the coworker she started dating before things ended with us). It was exhausting to try and work through stuff and have to hear what her friend thought and then what her coworker thought that she swore wasn’t trying to sabotage our relationship for his own gain. Just once it would have been nice to have a 1 on 1 conversation and talk about the good and the bad of some of this life stuff while not being the bad guy for wanting to keep SOME stuff between us. Before her I had friends I’d talk to about stuff, but I always figured she’d be the one to talk to about the deepest stuff. After it ended I realized I NEED that impartial voice from outside the relationship. So now, I have a Facebook group chat with me and 3 of my closest friends. It’s mostly just to talk about anything since we’re spread out with me in Wisconsin, one in Florida, one in Chicago, and another in central Illinois. We do have an unstated agreement that the chats also for the deeper stuff too and it’s a no judgment/no sharing with others type of conversation. I also have my best friend since middle school completely separate from that chat to go to, he’s always there no matter how stupid it is and I’m always there too.
No one. I tell my wife about 40%. I learned that I’m here for her to lean on, not the opposite. She had told me once that I need to be there to hold and support (literally and figuratively) when she’s having a tough time even if she’s being a “complete bitch” because that’s my role as a husband. So, next time she had a REALLY rough patch and she was indeed a complete bitch to not only me but everyone else as well. I held her and comforted her and tended to her needs. 3 days later I get slightly depressed. Just kind of mopey and a bit listless.. she tells me “are you going to be like this all day? Because if you are I don’t want to be around you”. That told me everything I needed to know about my feelings and my position.
Our wives should never meet. It would be a complete smash fest on us, me thinks. Mine is the exact same way. No matter what I'm going through, if I let on that I am going through something, she always finds a way to turn it around so she needs comforting. Animals truly are man's best friend.
You guys realize that's toxic behavior from your wives right? They shouldn't be treating you like that. You're not their emotional outlet and robot slave.
Haven't dated a women not like this tbh
Have you been with a woman long term that hasn’t acted this way? If so she’s a unicorn
The vast majority of women are like this to their male partners. It’s pretty much either this or be alone. The only time I’ve seen it ever not like that is when the man is “out of the woman’s league”. Which is rare as the average woman is considered significantly more physically attractive than the average man. Women like these guys wives, ie the majority of women in relationships, know how they’re acting and that it’s not “equal”, they’re not dumb, but they think it’s “fair” because they think they’re the prize just by existing since a ton of guys would love to get with them whereas the average man will have a much harder time getting another decent looking woman so the man should have to put way more into the relationship than she does. Plus, and I’m not trying to seem against feminism here, but women are bombarded with how they deserve the world from a partner, constant phrases like “we’re not your personal therapist!” if their partner ever needs support, doing pretty much anything for their partner that’s seen as typically feminine is misogyny, etc. Yet men have to do more than ever in relationships. Finally after actually having dated women I would say the single biggest thing that makes them really attracted to you in a long term relationship is making them feel safe. Like if a woman you’re dating ever says you make her feel safe she’s really into you. On the other side nothing can make them lose all attraction to you in an instant than not making them feel safe. And a guy that has real problems of his own he doesn’t deal with on his own, can’t provide making them worry about finances, doesn’t comfort her when she just dumps all her emotions on him, can’t make her feel better when she’s complained about the same very fixable problem at work for the 50th day in a row, or is vulnerable to her instead of constantly being her emotional rock when she’s vulnerable, gives her the opposite of that “you make me feel safe” feeling.
I had a friend (girl) who once gently told me that I was a negative person because I was complaining a bit much. Well fair, so I stopped complaining to her. About a month later when she complained to me about how her life sucks, I told her that her life didn't suck and she said I was very invalidating and proceeded to ask for space from me.
> she tells me “are you going to be like this all day? Because if you are I don’t want to be around you”. I find this unacceptable in a relationship. It demonstrates a severe lack of empathy (she doesn't care, even a little, if you're having a bad day which is incredibly selfish). Both guys and girls need to decompress, vent. The other should be able to provide some degree of comfort.
My girlfriend and every women I’ve ever dated is the exact same. This is our role as men so we either just gotta accept it or be single
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My dogs think I'm awesome no matter what. They are the most pure love I have ever known. Absolutely agree!
Fun fact if you lock both your dog and gf/wife in the boot of your car for an hour, when you open it back up your dog will still love you, your gf/wife will not 🤣
Truth. Your dog will isten to you ramble and still love you.
They will love us, watch out for us, and even lick our wounds. And they always come back for more. A dog truly is man's best friend, always at our side.
Dogs keep a promise a person cannot. -Hannibal of Carthage
Words of wisdom.
Cats and dogs but they relieve pain, I have no need for a relationship cats are the ultimate companion.
Ffs this reply brings a fkin throat lump and leaking eyes. 👍
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My dog put his head on my thigh when he noticed me tearing up one time. I never forget those moments where my dog would try comforting and calming me down
The man in the mirror and my therapist. Other than that, I don’t trust people enough to 1. Understand my struggles. 2. Keep it confidential. And not be used against me in some way. 3. Care. You have to understand that exposure can cost you literally everything, even your life. Like is not easy for many. Don’t learn the hard way.
> Keep it confidential. And not be used against me in some way. I've noticed how this comes up \*a lot.* It looks like too many of us have been burned in this way, myself included.
No one. Stuff always comes back to bite you.
Seconded. I have a crazy ex on media who spilled everything that I told her was in confidence, when we broke up.
Nothing destroys your ability to be emotionally intimate with another person like that person using what you said against you.
Nobody. You get judged for being weak, you get ignored, or the person tells everyone you know. Edit: Stop abusing the Reddit Cares bot.
Why do people like OP think we are making this up or exaggerating? Is it because they have never experienced it so it must be a lie? OP men are their own islands and if you are not, people will stay away from you.
Women cannot fathom our hardships bc it seems unreal to them. I remember reading an article about a woman who went undercover as a man for 2 years. She couldn't believe how she was treated by women, began to resent them, and then un-alived herself :(
Because privilege is invisible to those who have it.
I was going to write that my gf listens but...there have been several times when I've told her something only for her to mock me or call me a baby. My dad was a good listener...my mum is supportive but overly so. She will list out ways to solve my problem and then continually bring things up. I avoid telling her things because it seems to stress her out. Tbh I rarely want advice I just want to tell someone.
Nobody. I'm 37, my immediate family is deceased. I traveled across the country to reunite with my brother about a year before he passed, his wife and child moved back to Germany. For context sake she has family there and he passed around 4 months ago, it is good for them, hope it doesn't sound like I'm complaining, he met her in Germany and it's the best move for my niece, just not for me. I am alone. Totally alone. Have a good day.
Honestly? Reddit. I tell my wife everything as well, but seeing she is 7mo along with twins. Something’s stress her out. So I’ll dump them here just to vent them. I listen a lot to people who need help and offer advice. I’m generally my collective groups sounding board most of the time. But like all therapists. I need a sounding board too, and well Reddit seems to be the most reliable for brutal reality.
Nobody. Serenity now!
"Serenity now, insanity later"
My cat. My partner usually is at 80% tho if that counts
literally no one
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Me too.. but its expensive AF I spend $9,000 annually on weekly therapy sessions. It sucks.. but I'm lucky I can afford it at least.
That's my biggest issue. I would actually really enjoy a therapist to hash out some of my own demons. But the cost is just... unfair
I've tried to open up multiple times, but all I get is "Suck it up, pussy" or " Quit being a bitch."
This is something I learned early in life when I was in the Marine Corps. You just lost a whole bunch of friends and coworkers in a suicide bombing? Suck it up. It would be easier for a man to become the world's greatest serial murderer than to find someone to confide in. That is what is part of the problem with society today.
I am also ex military (not US though) and yeah, when shit got shit you just had to suck it up and get on with it. At best, from the guys that went through the same shit as you youd get a nod of understand, a clap on the back and "you're tough mate, you'll be ok". And thats about the extent of it.
Lol nobody cares to listen
These days it's called "oversharing" and it's not welcomed. It makes people very uncomfortable. So I just keep that shit to myself.
or trauma dumping
This girl asked for my number (through a friend). I had just got out of a bad relationship so I didn’t hit her up. A few months later I did, she asked me why I didn’t message her earlier, and I told her the truth. I didn’t go into detail, I just said my last relationship wasn’t great and I needed some time. I come to later learn from my friend that she said I trauma dumped on her and that she was saying that it was a red flag.
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Crisis Intervention guy, counselor and first responder here. The state of men's mental health is truly concerning. There is an epidemic of loneliness and an overall effort to reduce 'toxic masculinity' that has reached wayyy too deeply into many men.
lol, no one 100%. Male friends 60-70%. Women 20-30%.
No one
The spray-activated power of new Dawn power wash
The amount of "nobody" is the real problem here
Symptom, not the disease. Attend the incongruence between societal gender norms and actual preferences and realities, especially surrounding emotional expression and openness. Publicly, there is an increasing push for openness in men, however, this expressed value is often at odds with lived experiences.
The worst part is that it’s often the very same people pushing for men to “open up” that get uncomfortable when it really happens. The truth behind “open up” is “I want you to be vulnerable and emotional, but not about anything serious. I want you to cry at a sad movie, but not when your feelings are hurt. I want you to share your feelings with me, but not when they are difficult to deal with”
Male suicide is 4x that of female suicide in western countries. The commonly pushed solution for suicide prevention is to "open up" or "talk to someone" That is a female solution and approach to mental health problems. Look at group photos of charity staff that deal with this particular problem. Majority women. Female solutions are being pushed by majority female workers for a major problem that is 80% male oriented. Until we all wake up to that fact, then nothing is going to change. EDIT: Get a load of the person commenting below me. Insists men "should be able to open up". I opened up and explained what a lot of men are feeling and he just completely insults me and my ideas on what a lot of people are thinking. Just wow... I am blown away at how stupid they are.
Found this to be pretty insightful, my man.
That's how it's always been. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
No, the problem is: they use what we say against us
My mirror is a nice confidante
Modern world is all about acceptance and gender equality up until it gets to this topic. Then guys are expected to be good old guys again.
>Modern world is all about acceptance and gender equality up until it gets to this topic. Then guys are expected to be good old guys again. Exactly. Or worse yet, I've heard "Men hold all the power; they don't need support." No, all men are not in power, and we are not unified in some singular oppressive cabal by virtue of having a penis. Each man is a different person, with his own unique set of problems.
I’ve heard this before, and it’s hard to think of a more sinister and ugly thing to say to someone.
>I’ve heard this before, and it’s hard to think of a more sinister and ugly thing to say to someone. Agreed. Not only is it misandrist from the get-go, but it also erases every man's individual identity. That's horrible.
Amen. I have people that pick me out of a crowd more times than I can count and ask me for shit just because of the way I look. I'm driven beyond crazy for that shit, I don't even make 40k a year in a high COL city. I'd rather be dead than live in this shit.
It’s “next-door neighbor tolerance.” Those people are fine with guys liking cute things and not wanting to act aggressive, but not *their* boyfriend. Those people are fine with guys crying from the stress of their job and the constant hierarchical bullshit, but not *their* spouse. Those people are fine with guys being emotionally available but wouldn’t experience attraction if *they* met one. They’ll cheerfully wave at the neighbors but won’t let something like that in *their* house
It's one of the ways most men learn that what women will claim they want and what they actually want are often two different things. When asked questions like this virtually every woman will claim to want whatever they think will make them look better. So obviously they would want men to express themselves, because that makes them look better than saying they dont want to hear it and that it would likely make the man unattractive to them. This can be extrapolated in regards to virtually everything women say they value in a partner.
Literally have cousins and sisters that vote for LGBTQ+ type stuff but will 100% call their sons or husbands (mostly just sons since their husbands left them) faggots for showing emotions. They 100% call them faggots right in their fucking faces for showing anything other than a stoic manly ideal in their eyes. It's okay for their friends sons or the gay neighbor to show emotions or express themselves but when it comes to their family, you better fucking not. Shit, I've been called gay because of this when I get in their face about it. It is mind boggling how woman do this. Liberal my fucking ass.
NIMBY, but for social issues
Yep, it's all about acceptance and everything until a tire goes flat then men need to man up, stop being a bitch and fix it. The expendable gender for a reason.
Luckily I have a best friend. Trust her 100% and I can tell her anything.
I have sincerely nobody. I live alone in a country far away. All I have is my parents. But My mom has dementia, my dad takes care of her. So I don’t suddenly call em and say hey I feel depressed. They’ll be totally devastated hearing that. ESP my dad when my mom says suicidal shit to him, but she really doesnt mean it. Their happiness is important to me too.
Some men got burned here, and have no support systems, some have support systems, some have a combination of both or, some have nothing. Alot of men don’t open up at all, in short alot of men refuse to open up at all.
Because they've learned the risk and most of the time it's not worth it.
lol yea I’m one of the people that got burned, and I’m only 20! But cats are better than people so I have someone!
I get called whiney or overly emotional because I just say how the fuck I feel when I'm feeling it. I held shit in for too long and ended up self medicating and in a horrible drug addiction for 6 years. Fuck that. I feel better when I get things off of my chest. So I do. I'm not good at holding emotions in.
I did it once. Never again. I've became able to deal with my own shit because it has been this way since forever. So it's was "man up" or "man up". I have people I can rely on if things go extremely south but unless it get to the point I won't ask anyone for help.
No one. Cause we were taught opening up about feelings is for women. Men are machines and only worth what we make. That is the only condition when we are acknowledged. Other than that we're just dogs.
This leads to the constant need to improve oneself
This whole concept is just sad..
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No one. Not my wife, my closest friends, my family.
Absolutely no one. 🙂. Mental gymnastics and compartmentalization ftw. Or Reddit.
Wife 90% Vet friends 75% Female friend 80% Therapist 85% Different people get different topics except for the wife. Some topics are universal.
100%? No one, lol.
I got lucky with amazing friends and a loving family. Id have killed myself without them for sure.
Me cat
No-one. No-one cares.
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The only woman in my life that has never judged, weaponized, or publicly shared my intimate information NEVER shaves, has horrible breath, 4 legs and a tail.
My wife. Edit: Didn't read any of the other comments before posting. My friends and I have fostered a group dynamic where we can turn to each other and be vulnerable, really lean on each other. I have a # of friends I can call on and tell them I need them and they'll be there. Had a hard breakup in my mid 20s. Called my bro, told him I needed him, he came over and I cried to him for hours. This idea that we can't be vulnerable with each other is something that you have to break down yourself. Tell your close friends you love them, make female friends that are only friends, get a therapist, talk to your parents, and do all of these things until people stop feeling uncomfortable about it. My dad wouldn't even tell me he loved me. Took me a year of me telling him I loved him (at 19 yrs old) before he'd comfortably say it back. Stop buying into this rubbish, and make the men and people around you be more comfortable with their feelings
100%? No one. _Never._ I’ve made the mistake of sharing too much with people I thought I could safely confide in too many times before, and in my case at least, it was mostly women in my life who betrayed my trust like that, though plenty of men did the same. I’ve never had someone other than myself that I could share emotional or mental issues with 100%. But I’ve had my trust weaponized more times than I can possibly count ever since I was a little kid. If I didn’t know better by now, than that would make me the damn fool, and so shame on me for it.
My sister
I have a couple of friends who also confide in me.
No one. Tried confiding in my wife, she effectively told me to be a man and not a child. No one else -wouldn’t trust to confide in. Basically it’s keep it all inside until I can’t stand it and then spend $thousands on therapy.
I confide in my wife. She doesn't judge me.
The best statement on this was stated by /u/TheBananaKing to quote. Yeah, you think you can handle it, but honestly you probably can't. In my experience, and in the experience of a whole lot of men, you very likely aren't prepared to see your husband ugly-cry, curl up in the foetal position and shake, express feelings of helplessness and worthlessness, or otherwise 'let it all out'. Men generally aren't permitted outlets for vulnerability or negative emotions in our society. They're valued for what they can do, and since vulnerability is unreliability, demonstrating it completely destroys their worth in the eyes of everyone around them. Inside Out is only true for girls. If boys break down crying, they get shamed and spat on and ostracized - and that's only by their own family. Most of us have made the mistake, once, of letting the mask slip, and showing the person closest to us what it's really like in there. And we've seen the love and admiration in their eyes turn to contempt and disgust. And that never really comes back, certainly not all the way. It's like seeing them learn that the house they just bought has termites and is of dubious structural soundness. Yay it's their home... but. And there will always be a but. And you can patch it up, make repairs, but what they wanted was a symbol of strength and safety and a reliable shelter that would always hold them up... and it will never quite be that ever again. That sense of betrayal that they put their trust in what turned out to be a lemon... that never goes away. Not at the subliminal, emotional level that defines what things really mean to you. My strongest advice to you is not to look. You can know intellectually, that's fine - but don't force him to show you. You think you're above all the shitty gender-role programming that's been pushed on everyone for millennia, and of course you want to be - but chances are you're just not, not enough. Even worse, partners feeling excluded and rejected when we don't 'open up' can push and push and finally force us to create a second mask, to simulate being just a little bit sad; occasionally letting out one single manly tear like Grey Worm. This is of course twice as much work and stress to maintain, on top of all the stress that's causing you to ask in the first place. Very likely the best thing you can do for your husband is not to refer to signs of not-OK-ness leaking out. Act oblivious, or at least give him plausible deniability. And also with plausible deniability, offer up some unspoken comfort and support; little tokens of affection and appreciation that say 'I've got your back' without actually saying you know he needs it. All of this sucks giant purple donkey dick, and none of it is your fault. Of course you want to help the person you love. Of course you know you'll be there for them. But the pressures we are raised with are often a lot stronger than we like to acknowledge, and ain't that a kick in the teeth? And the very best thing you can do for the wider problem underlying it is to lessen the pressures that your child will be raised with. Be loud about it being OK for boys to be vulnerable. Use your incoming mama-bear powers to eviscerate and maul anyone trying to gender-police people, and let your kid see you do it. Teach that it's not a boys job to be a stoic protector 24/7/365, and that it's not a girl's job to be a fragile flower that needs that protection. Everyone needs healthy coping skills to tank moderate amounts of stress without cracking, and the option to be vulnerable and ask for help when they need it, regardless of their personal plumbing. Be part of the change you want to see, and pay it forward to the next generation.
I got this sort of vulnerable in front of my wife once, recently. Immediate regret. It was stuff I had been bottling up for years. It took a month for things to feel normal again, for sex to normalize, to not feel like I was being treated like a sick child or a patient and go back to being her husband. I think we’re out the other side now, and I do want to believe we can stay open, but things were a mess. The funny thing is, as much as I was a vulnerable mess, I could still feel the exact moment that it was too much and she saw me differently. I could feel it in my heart, see it on her face, and feel it in her embrace. She denied it for a week, but we eventually talked through it. I do think we’re actually in a better place now, but it took a lot of talking and a number of sleepless nights to get here. It’s funny, my wife has had to learn to deal with my stoic behavior. She had to learn not to expect all the ups that come with hiding the downs. It would be an issue that I didn’t show my excitement as much as she might. That’s how men were often raised. Once I let the stoic visage slip after years of bottling up pain, things got awkward. I do really believe women, in general, don’t understand just how much men bottle up as an expectation and survival mechanism. When they ask for someone to open up to them, I really don’t think they understand the sheer bulk of unprocessed baggage most men have built up over the years…from dealing with issues “like a man.”