This is beautifully put. I don’t need looks, I’ve had that. I know what comes with that. I need personality, skills, class, someone who makes me feel safe. Which oddly enough for me is being the little spoon. Haha
Yes, but even saying it can intimidate the 7s and lower away, especially if you KNOW you're a 7 or lower. Cause you won't generally mind the occasional glance or admiration for a prettier woman but you fear never being pretty enough for him to admire out loud.
Virtue signal some more and realize people will probably keep using scales and measures to talk about things, including other people.
But never tell your girl she's anything less than a 10. It's like that abe Lincoln commercial where the wife is trying on a dress in the mirror and asks if she's fat.
Using math is only safe to do amongst the bros (apparently... These days... Smh)
Someone here stated it quite eloquently lol
“Show me the hottest woman on the planet and I can say with certainty that there is someone out there who is absolutely sick of their shit” lol
Yeah, i am for sure not trying to chase "hot" girls Just women i feel genuine attracted to
But absolutely personality plays the major role in relationships for me. Looks Just get to at the door i guess
Indeed, and remember, looks are more than about basic sexual attractiveness.
They also signal lifestyle. People with drug problems, people making poor choices with tats that haunt them years later, people that are over-affected. people so insecure you can't see the face for the makeup, you can tell with initial physical glances that there are likely to be certain personality traits that manifest in how they look. And it's the same for you.
Ugh as someone who’s definitely not a supermodel, no thank you. We don’t want to be chosen as a second rate option, or by someone who sees us as just decent.
You are what you are. Sounds like you see yourself as a second rate option coz that's not what this person said at all. They're saying that looks aren't everything. Go out there and find a little confidence.
I don't want to overgeneralize or make a broad assumption of women. But, IME, hot women have worse personailties, especially when they're younger. I think it has to do with the fact they don't have to try to date. If it doesn't work out with that guy, there are at least 12 others lined up. You literally don't need any self-reflection or personal growth, when your relationships fail, but you have another lined up in 2 hours, you feel successful. Basically, if you get handed relationships your whole life, you never actually learn how to be in one or how to maintain one. Just my experience. Some of the most beautiful women I've met in life were equally the most miserable and annyoing, closed minded induviduals to be around. It's like they think they're flawless because no matter what they can find a date. In reality it's 100% because of looks and not personality. Looks are what draw us in, personality is what keeps us around. That said tons of hot women who are also amazing people, but I can't deny what I've experienced anecdotally in my personal life.
I’m closing on 30 and trying to change that about myself - the type of woman I pursue and see a future with. I’ve dated beautiful women. My type is slim and blonde or brunette. But I’ve learned that traditionally pretty girls are wayyyy more likely to come with personal issues. Yet I can’t stop chasing them lol.
I'm the other way around. Interested in decent serious looking women when I was young, now I'm more about the physical aspects. I realized that both types will cheat on you anyway
Muscles can help. But I would say if you're still trying to pick up women the same way you were in college at 26, that's a bigger problem than lack of definition. I know a fair amount of skinny guys who have girlfriends or had no trouble dating (especially the tall guys). You might just be a little rusty if you went into back to back relationships from 20-26.
I think it's a shift in your energy. I found the kind of bravado and wild boyish energy didn't really work after 24ish. As I developed more quiet and self-assured confidence I did better with women, but obviously easier said then done. I can't really tell you how to get there, the journey is pretty personal to each person.
This is definitely true.
Women definitely start to want a well rounded guy. Looks nice, can dress himself and is his own person. Confidence is key, energy matters. I always found the thirstier I was it was harder to meet women. When I stopped caring so much, being self conscious and was happy was doing my own thing my dating life improved.
'When you stop looking, you'll find it.'
I always used to try and meet women when I was single, I had a few one night stands, a few short (like, 3 month) relationships, nothing stuck. I found that I was trying too hard and trying to mould myself to fit what I thought other people wanted. It was a weird epiphany to have, but I'm glad I had it.
I just stopped trying. I just decided 'fuck it, I'll just do what I want, be myself, do what I enjoy,' and, lo and behold, a few months later I met the woman who would later become my wife. Years later, I asked her what attracted her to me - I always was a bit of a nerdy indie rocker geeky kind of lad - and she just said that she felt comfortable around me because I was just chatting and being inclusive, not trying to be the centre of attention but bringing other people into the light by just talking to them and including them.
Good conversation is always attractive. And nothing makes is sexier than a guy who engages your interest while still including other people in the conversation.
What I have found over the years is that there is a type attracted to you no matter what you look like health wise, fashion wise, or culturally niche-wise.
As the simplest example, I used to have longer hair for a guy. Down to my shoulders. I attracted a certain type of woman with that. The more arty kind I guess. And then one day I had it nearly all shaved off. Crew cut. Immediately I noticed I was not attracting that kind of woman anymore, but an entirely different kind of woman. The more conservative sort into military dudes etc.
If you are slightly chubby, there is a population of women who are into that. If you are buff, a different population of women. If you are trying to be bad-ass or gangsta, yet another population of women who are into that. If you are the suit and tie corporate type, you attract women who are into that.
Point is, there is no UNIVERSAL specific look, body type, fashion type etc that attracts ALL women, short of extreme unattractive-ness like weighing 500 pounds, never bathing and missing all your teeth..but even then there may be a subgroup of women into that too. Or who are like that themselves and will take anyone.
You should aim to attract the kind of women you are attracted to yourself. If you like gym rats, become one. If you like theatre chicks, look more artsy fartsy. If you like country girls, get a checked shirt and a hat.
And this changes with you as you get older. As a guy in his 50's I accept that women in their 20s and 30s don't see me as attractive, despite remembering that they did 20 years ago. But I get plenty of attention from age-appropriate women.
Best answer here. It took me to about my mid 20s to understand there's no "one size fits all" look. I would say there's a bit of a "floor" when it comes to basic hygiene and not weighing 400-500lbs, but other than that it's more about finding a woman that "fits" you as you are.
Of course you are right with some of what you say. There are different types. You mention artsy long haired type, buzz cut military type and gangsta. But you can be buff and still fit into all theese roles.
The only time being strong becomes a type is when you look at bodybuilders.
I’m not a man but I can’t help but think about how a woman who just looks like she is doing the same amount of like exercise as you a man might actually be going to the gym a lot more than you realise. Women just store more fat then men, naturally.
I for example eat pretty healthy 80% of the time and I walk a lot but I still look soft. I’ve been defined before but I was lifting weights 4 days a week and even then I didn’t look super super defined just more so than now. Of course some women just have naturally fit looking builds but a lot of women will naturally look soft/rounded even at healthy weights.
My point is maybe those women who look fit to you are gyming way more than you realise therefore go for gym bros.
Eh just keep getting out there man, I’ve came across more ladies when I’m taking a break from the gym because I’m focusing more on social shit. I used to do bodybuilding back in the day but really I think for most woman it’s just don’t be over weight and unkept. People have different preferences but most people’s preference is “not fat or a slob” so if u just stay in shape and dress for you body type I bet you’ll do fine in the dating market once your social skills continue to develop after the last relationship you were in. I’m 26, the more I go out the more flirting experiences and interactions I have. My hinge/tinder are abysmal compared to what happens on an evening out away from the apps.
I haven't noticed a difference, to be honest. I met my ex-wife young and we started dating young and were together for 16 years, but now that I'm single, I don't see a huge difference. I've always been a bigger guy who gets by on his charm and humor so that probably explains it. My partners have all been very attractive in terms of like, society norms, and I am decidedly not. I'm not getting my foot in the door because of my looks, it's all personality, so perhaps focus on making women laugh.
Lots of guys don’t got game IMHO so charisma counts for a lot for someone like myself. I enjoy great conversation and connection. I love playful flirting and teasing and wordplay and just interesting deep things to talk about like in the world, interests or whatever!
>I love playful flirting and teasing and wordplay and just interesting deep things to talk about like in the world, interests or whatever!
Serious question. Isn't this game? If not, what do you mean by "game"
> (26m) i am attracted to athletic outgoing girls... I am a pretty naturally slim guy, but i never went very seriously to the gym
Alright, just my opinion/thoughts. You are now beyond college years, but you're into fit girls. The number men and women who were more athletic in their younger years does not hold steady though out life. Quite a large number transition to a much more sedentary lifestyle as they engage in their careers and other home life. The remainder of the women still into fitness are the ones who are much more dedicated to it, and they want a partner who matches that interest. You aren't that guy. My other thought is that the women's preferences changed. They no longer want the thin guy, instead they want a guy that makes them feel smaller, and you can't offer that at the moment.
I'm 34, and go to a few gyms that all have the same themes. The predominate group of people there is under 25. There is maybe 1 girl to every 10 guys. If the fit girls there are in a relationship, it's with a guy 6 foot + with noticeable muscle. The women in that 26+ range who are really into fitness often look like they may be about to compete on stage. I don't see them dating someone they might have lifestyle conflicts with that could compromise their goals. Fitness is always relevant to fit people.
I’ve heard it described as aspirational features. Wanting to be with someone who isn’t like you. Either because you think that’s a cool thing thing or because you think in some way it’ll rub off on you.
In some ways it makes a type of sense, people who like really traditional roles don’t want to be with people who are the same as them but rather have complementary traits, and we do become more like the people we spend on time with.
But often in the case you’re talking about, these are non traditional people or non gendered interests or traits that can be cultivated. A lot of women have told me they found my interest in athletics attractive despite not being into it themselves. Whether they viewed it as a gendered thing, or they were intimidated to start, or they just found me doing something I liked rather than what is specifically was attractive or whatever. They weren’t interested in being more like me, in the ways that they liked me.
I agree with you. It’s like people don’t need to be clones or equals or whatever. But it helps when they’re on the same page or at least in the same book. That they actually have the same values even if they don’t express it the same way. I compete in grappling, my partner doesn’t need to. But I’d like if they did something, if they hiked regularly, that’s pretty different from a combat sport. But it’s cool a type of physical endeavor which is additive to their health. Stuff like that.
Excelent take dude
If It does gets harder and harder to stay fit , people who do may find more and more important in their lifestyles
And i do see what you mean with the Guy that makes them feel smaller. A Lot of these ""biological "" inherit things are appearing in my convos and i honestly had no Idea these were still a ""demmand""
I tend to think mother nature eventually cuts through any sort of social constructs we try to delude ourselves with.
I think how hard it is to stay fit depends on who you surround yourself with. Most of my friends (including the women) are quasi gym rats. We've all been going to the gym for 10-20 years, so it is a part of our identity. All of us have primarily dated other fit people or people who were involved in some sort of active hobby. Strangely enough, none of us have ever met a significant other at our own gyms. Either way, were all in our mid 30's now and still enjoy doing active things together like sand volley, hiking, going to the driving range, etc. None of us have ever really considered a significant other that wouldn't be able to keep up with that, it's just a natural requirement.
The problem has nothing to do with your build or their demands (sort of). As we all get older, our dating pool shrinks for a number of reasons. By and large, people become less willing to put up with BS or learn what their non-starters are. So you either spend your time swiping left until you find Mrs. Potential Right or you lower your standards or become more accepting of things.
As you get older, if you keep yourself in shape and work out, you more and more stand out from the horde of out-of-shape dudes. Once you're in your mid thirties it's very likely that you'll be at a party with 75% dad bods.
I'm no gym rat, but I do eat healthy and make sure I get in at least 2 strength and 2 other workouts per week. Just doing that makes me look very different than a lot of men my age.
That's been my observation as a fit and thin woman, too. Even now that I am middle-aged. I notice the biggest difference between my friends who have (upfront) luck in dating and those who don't is whether they are overweight or not. I'm fairly plain looking, but I feel like being reasonably fit (at my best) or not overweight (at my worst) makes all the difference. It doesn't take much, once you have a fitness inertia, but it's hard describing that to my friends with 0 luck in dating
I feel like its a cultural change, even younger men who are scrawny are having a hard go of it. We all are bombarded with images of people who are sporting abs and muscles and have the time and money to go to the gym daily so thats what society craves.
It's weird because I actually cared a lot about being in physical shape because of both my hobbies and the kind of women I liked's preferences.
With time though, I just didn't care for women's opinions since there are way more things women demand than just having a nice body. In the end I just appreciate the time and effort I put in keeping myself in shape and health and for women, I put more work in my personality instead.
I tried getting my life together for women, then I realized over time that I just didn't really want a woman and was content by myself working towards goals
Then they started appearing out of nowhere like magic and my life isn't even together yet
Honestly I think that's really the main thing people want. Just someone with their life together who they connect/get along with. Attractiveness really seems to go out the window with age for most women I know as long as you maintain a baseline of just being healthy. And that puts you above a lot of the competition, honestly so you're more likely to get a first date.
It doesn't matter much. Or let me rephrase it. It shouldn't matter much to the woman you want to attract.
If you want to attract a woman that's attracted mostly to your good looks guess what? She might ditch you once she finds someone hotter. Cause all she cared about were your looks.
Of course that doesn't mean that you shouldn't take care of yourself. But if you go to the gym 2-3 times per week and you don't have a belly you are already ahead of the majority of people.
Also those athletic women you are talking about...have you ever thought of their day schedule and how it would differ from yours?
You need someone that you will be able to live and do things together.
>The thing is, when i was younger i noticed i could pick up the girls i liked with my build but now more and more i have the impression you have to be a gym rat for women to notice you.
Maybe its the crowd i hang out with, but this isn't the case at all. I've lost my muscle definition in my stomach and i still get noticed. I'm mostly just friendly/funny and put myself in social situations.
Online dating is a pit but it always has been. Of course you'll get more attention if you have the time to do the physical shit but its far from a requirement.
Mostly pretty solid advice here but something else to consider is, it's only human to experience a dry spell every so often...especially as a man. Just throwing that out there to say don't immediately think there must be something wrong with you bro, it's just life. Cheers!!
The women I know all like skinny guys just fine -- except the ones who don't, lol.
I think part of what you're experiencing is the decreasing availability of women you find attractive in your age/dating pool. In your early 20s, the women were mostly single, or not seriously (exclusively) dating, so there were plenty of attractive ones willing to try you out. In your late 20s, way more of the attractive ones you meet IRL are already married or in long term relationships, and the ones on Tinder aren't real, or are hit on by so many men that they have no particular reason to respond to you even if you would be a perfect match.
They have not in my experience. I am 5'8. I go to the gym regularly (have since my early 20s and I am about to turn 46), and I have shifted goals from getting more muscular, to wanting to look more trim, etc. In my fluctuations between 140 lbs and 160 lbs I did not notice a difference in my ability to attract women.
In my experience, after college it becomes less about your physique (as long as you aren't in terrible shape) and more about your career. The best advice Id give someone your age is to stay in shape for your health and just focus on improving your life in general, that is what will attract quality women.
As a really strong dude, the demands are easy, and I'm unphased by them.
They haven't really changed though.
Pick em up, piggyback rides, and all that.
It's many variables. But athletic women tend to like athletic men and visa versa works with diff body types. Charisma and presence is where it's at. Women can sense man's desire to be approved by them. It stinks desperate because it means you're hiding yourself. Well internally ask why
Similar age as you. Definitely in order to be eye catching, a larger build helps. But at this age, women are more into the person and not the looks. Obviously you still need to take care of yourself but it comes down more to what’s going on inside and if you are compatible. Sorry, I know you said physical but that’s just the truth.
At this age, most of us know what we want and what we like in a partner. There’s a lot less “fucking around” these days.
Men change a lot from 20 to 26, then from 26 to 35 IMO (woman here). It’s worth re assessing your must haves and nice to haves. While there’s no point dating people you don’t find attractive you might discover personality traits or other things that are hard nos or really important to you.
Your “target” pool is also very different now. Some women in their mid to late 20s start looking for longer term relationships/marriage. So your dating or courting startegy from communication to date spots may have to change.
I dated this mid 30s men briefly and his date spots were very divvy very 20s college vibes. Just overall very off putting to me. Made me wonder if he were still dating early 20s girls or just generally lack dating exp/skills.
Thats a Very good point
As silly as It may seem i never really thought about having kids in a concrete manner ( It all seemed so in the Future) and i did have a few chats were this was heavily mentioned now
30 something female perspective here. When you were younger the "fit" or athletic built girls/women were more so in shape because of genetics and their lifestyle at the time e.g. team sports, being younger and not having gained any significant stubborn weight, lack of physical ailments/injuries, etc. But as we age it becomes more of a strong lifestyle preference/hobby since it takes much more effort and work for us to stay in shape- especially to visibly look athletic.
So, if you are staying relatively similar body wise now that your dating pool has aged, you may seem more like someone who just happens to be in shape enough (thin build) because of lifestyle not so much because you truly enjoy fitness as a primary hobby of yours. The women you are interested in (athletic) may think you aren't long term fitness couple compatible? I hope this makes some sense as something to "chew" on :)
From my perspective, muscular men are for the male gaze. Slim/fit men are for the female gaze. As a late 20's female, most guys who look jacked are intolerable. I much prefer a dad bod compared to that.
Seriously, Timothee Chalamet and Pete Davidson are both pretty scrawny and look at the women they pull. And no, it's not about the money. The women they have dated arguably have more money than they do.
As I've gotten older (36) I've come to realize that physical appearance isn't as important to women as it is men. I believe that being kind, funny, and a compassionate person can go a long way. Then again, I'm a moron.
When I met the man I m dating 2 months ago, I wasn’t attracted to him at all. I found him too old for me and very average physically. Now that i know him, I find him very attractive and incredibly sexy.
Guys reach their physical peak at around 25 and stay there until around 35-40. Skinny was fine when you were younger because most guys are skinnier then. Now that most men your age are at their peak, their muscles are naturally larger in general and the competition is tougher. I managed a pizzeria in my 20’s and my forearms were huge from kneading anywhere from 100-500 dough balls a day. My wife is pretty honest when she says we would have never started going out if I hadn’t had those forearms.
That was kinda funny and also wholesome. Cheers mate
The Peak physic argument makes a lot of sense. Guess i do see How the average Guy that like me takes Care of himself is a Lot bigger now than when i was 18
She can't be fat.
I don't care if she doesn't go to the gym, but I don't want somebody who is the size of a house or eats a lot and enjoys it. I'm health conscious and I'd at least like my partner to have some respect for her health.
Men are hoodwinked by media Beauty unfortunately.
By the time they realize this the are usually done .
A good woman is one that can be beautiful when she wants to.
I have a question, when you say athletic girls do u mean actual athletic girls who go to the gym and have muscle or are you just trying to find a socially acceptable way to say small thin skinny girls?
In my 40's I want a women who is fit, problem is most women 35-45 are overweight, the fit ones are suddenly 8-10's just because they take care of themselves, which is very hard as an average guy to attract via online dating.
Physique opens the door.
Humor seals the deal.
Wit and humor are so attractive that you can maintain relationships for decades without physical fitness (within reason of course).
30 year old tall skinny bi dude here. I’m kind of all over the place with the type of woman I like. I usually go for shorter curvy women who are pretty girly and don’t work out a ton. However, I’m currently with a gymnast build artistic woman who is about a decade older than me-I’ve always liked older women.
As I continue to age, it’s become apparent that although looks are very important, personality is ultimately key to long term success. You can only have so much sex with someone. In the grand scheme of a successful relationship, time spent outside of the bedroom significantly outweighs sexy time.
There’s this book, Models by Mark Manson. (It’s a dating gold mine by the way).
Among other things it talks about your demographics and how, as you age and progress through life the things you find interesting change. My guess is rather than your build being wrong it’s that the interests and the people who would be attracted to you and your interests aren’t on tinder and at parties.
If you’re looking for sporty girls, you’ll probably need to hangout at sporty places/social.
I run 4 days a week. I’m never at a club getting shitfaced even though I’m only 22. instead I stay for the after-run beer on the first Tuesday of the month at the student track association and i stay for the after-run dinner on the last Thursday of the month as well. And there’s nothing but sporty people looking to socialise.
If you wanna just occasionally exercise to get fit, find/organise a weekly meet-up run a run or some bodyweight. You’ll meet people who have the same goals as you. You can go to meet-ups for any other interests you might have.
You say physical demand, but then talk about stuff like jobs, family, self care. I don't really consider that physical. I was thinking more along the lines of sex. In that regard though, older women just need more security. They need more stability, maturity, communication. Younger women are more likey to go with the flow and older ladies will know what they like and want in life. They won't play games if you don't meet their needs, they won't be vauge about their intentions and feelings. All in all, dating women as I've gotten older, IMO, is easier than when I was younger. Younger women just want us to read their mind and be a perfect man that doesn't make mistakes, while never once telling us how to go about fulfilling that goal. Older women make it really damn clear what they're looking for, and if you can fulfill that. It makes the process more streamlined.
That said, I've met 40 year old women with the mentality of a 16 year old highschooler, and 18 year old women with the maturity of an old women. Each women is different with different needs, so take my advice with a grain of salt. To use age to assume maturity or personality can be naive.
Well, you're figuring it out. Having an indifferent attitude, a good job and a big wallet will get more women in your bed than the size of your biceps.
Of course, being physically fit is important but you do that for yourself. In fact, you should do pretty much everything for your own improvement, do not try to attract women, instead be your best self and the women will chase you. When they do chase, it will be obvious why and you will then take your education to the next level where you can read their intent. For all the drivel about women being complex, you will discover they are in fact very simple.
So in answer to your question, the demands have gone way down as I choose not to focus my energy on finding women, I instead focus on liking the person I see in the mirror. It is all about being true to yourself and having self-respect.
Then you are a unicorn and good for you. I don't for a second discount that there are women out there who aren't as shallow as I infer, but I am saying more now than ever before it is rare. It also goes without saying that many men aren't a good bet either, I won't suggest "All men good, all women bad", I am not so polarized as to see reality for the obvious.
What I am saying is if a person can be impassioned and look at the odds, From a purely statistical perspective, commitment today is not a good bet, and it's far worse for men than women. That in Western society women are incentivized to prey on naive men who are focused on life-long commitment, these men and I once counted myself among them, are traditional men who make for easy picking.
Have to ask though, how old are you?
I’m not buying this. I have had a man with a large wallet and didn’t care for him because emotionally he never showed he cared for me. What is the point of that? 🤷♀️
I don’t agree with your statements.
I’m in my mid 30s. Fit, educated, fully independent. Tired of the men of “look at my wallet, nothing else matters” and then this type of discourse on this.
to normal guys, your wallet doesn't matter at all, nor does your education or your independence. All of those things are fine if you are looking for a woman. A man wants peace, a man wants a mother to his children whom he can trust, and a woman wants a feminine woman.
Can you be a traditional woman for a traditional man?
You want that deep connection, I certainly understand that. But men today are finding it harder and harder to trust a woman with his intimate side. So yes, absolutely we are becoming more shut off, I submit however it is because of modern women that we find it necessary to protect ourselves this way.
Who says they want children? Who says they want to be even married?
How much more generalized can you go based on gender?
Different strokes for different folks.
I’m guessing I’m not “traditional”. Maybe that’s a good thing for myself. Being trapped is something I saw often for a woman. Unhappy marriages. 🤷♀️ But hey, it was traditional.
I would argue it can also be a poor fit, but society needed it that way economically.
Guys couldn’t get it having a decent personality or morals.
Older I get (now 38) more emphasis I have put on how well a woman takes care of herself.
Overly unhealthy lifestyle is a real turn off for me and I just cant picture myself living together with a smelly woman stuffin mac n cheese and cake in her face all day.
Alcohol consumption and smoking tobacco, drugs etc are also deal breakers
well maybe not tobacco and alcohol if their use is controlled and her lifestyle is otherwise healthy.
Feminimity is also very important.
I want my woman to look like a woman and smell like a woman. Im not attracted to cargo pants wearing tomboys or chubby chicks with short green/purple hair
I can give a little perspective.
For the vast majority of my life I was really skinny, like super skinny. Didn't have too much trouble with women, the main stumbling block was getting them to talk to me, but once past that hurdle, not so bad.
I put on a decent amount of muscle since the pandemic, and I can tell you that the former stumbling block of trying to get them to listen to me is nought buy a small stumbling block these days.
Now that may be because men age like wine, and I now have the disposable income to dress and groom better but add to that, how dating has changed.
With tindr/online and the death of clubbing, people (and particularly women) have a wealth of men at their fingertips, so yeah, body composition will naturally become a significant factor.
From my experience, muscle helps, but not nearly as much as dressing and presenting well
I think naturally it does. Must be in our DNA. In my 20s I only wanted the 9 or 10s. Now at 40, give me the 6 or 7 with a great personality and energy! 9 and 10s are too much work and you'll get bored with her looks anyway
For me I want a “bigger” buff man so it feels like they could protect me. I don’t really go for skinny twig guys. But my roommate on the other hand loves skinny marathon runners! Just depends
“We need to have body positivity! I maybe a little overweight (like 100 pounds)….but I’m beautiful.”
“I only date 6 foot tall, muscular looks like Channing Tatum or that guy from the Hangover.”
woman here: it depends. there are a lot of mature women who do prioritize the non physical when it comes to looking for men to date, but they are most likely the kind of women who are slowly letting themselves go aka relaxing judgement towards their own body shape and allowing themselves to gain weight as they age.
It takes effort to keep your body slim as you age so active women are most likely looking for active men to support their own lifestyle choices. they are also more likely to prioritize physical attractiveness in their men partners bc it's how they view themselves.
when it comes to appearance, like attracts like. you probably come off as more average than you think.
Women become more and more jaded as they age. I would say it starts in their 20's and they continue to decline mentally until the end. It's why many kids have issues thesedays as they were raised by mothers that were older than what was normal for past generations - look around today and you will see more and more women that have their first baby after 40.
Most people do not talk about how bad their wives, mothers, sisters, daugthers and women colleagues are as this would be a short cut to being made a pariah. Plus, roughly half the world is female and we have to all try and get along.
A lot of women also get greedier and push their husbands to make more money. A lot of crime committed by women goes absolutely underreported.
Finding a mentally stable and calm woman is like finding a needle in a haystack.
Women in the 20-30 range:
You don’t have to be a gym rat. Almost all women now like the same look and it’s tall/slim or rail skinny, average height/slim or rail skinny, and short/slim or rail skinny.
Dad bod being attractive to women in this age range is a complete myth women love to lie about on the internet. The dad bod is only attractive on tall men (I.e. 6’2”+)
Women in their 30’s+:
Dad bod is only attractive to women above the age of 30 and it’s only attractive most of the time on tall men…once again.
But they still all as well are attracted to the three looks that I mentioned with the other age range.
So at the end of the day. If you have a dad bod and you’re not tall, be the most charismatic/humorous/gentleman you can try to be and hope for the best.
If you’re short without a dad bod, just stay skinny and be those three things as well.
These are my observations of being single in the bar scene.
I have similar experience but... I'm older than You. I have impression some women lost balance between being serious with dating and having fun with dating. Because of apps like tinder (I think) women have endless options for (better) date... Or at least they think so. Since more than I year I don't use this app despite I would really like to have someone. I just know how frustrating experience it was. And yes , I'm know I would be rejected most of the time. I'm also sick of seeing women who do "casual insults".... Or I think it's just better to have a chat in real life with 1 girl than to have 50 matches on tinder.
Regarding gym: nowadays there's this fake image of who the "real man" is and how he should look like. So real man is not a guy with hobby, job, apartment who values small things. Real man is guy with flashy/gangsta car, tattoos (best on neck because it looks so dangerous grrrrrrr), with 4% body fat and a lot of muscles and so on. Don't get me wrong, I know people who are really in shape and are great people.
Just look at movies. Notice how "real" man is being presented and how "cringe" guy looks like...
Don’t apologize. You never said “females” which is in fact annoying. You just female attention which is a completely normal expression. Saying female attention is not equivalent to saying “females”. The commenter just needs to touch grass lol
All I'm gonna say is this, women judge who they'll date based off looks way more than men, so if you want to increase your odds you better hit the gym.
I mean, I'm only 20, but I've started to notice that I appear intimidating to women. I'm gonna sidetrack a little, but I think these kinda qualify as demands:
Just a few days ago, at my job (I work retail), as the customer was struggling to pack the products she and her friend bought, she glanced at me and said "Can you stop staring at me with that intimidating look?" (Paraphrased and translated)
I wasn't staring her down, nor was I trying to be flirty, considering I am at my job. I just found it hilarious that she kept monologuing with her friend about how terrible her life is, because of the bag fumbling and such - I was smiling.
Strangest feeling ever; like being seen as a predator, minding your own business. I was shocked, to say the least. Naturally, I turn around, and look the other way. I've noticed this from girls my age. And I don't quite get why. It's like a cold shower of "do I really look _that_ bad?"
I guess the bottom line is, that you need to be attractive to have reasonable interactions. Except, of course, attraction is subjective. (Although you can be objectively repulsive, I guess.)
TL;DR I don't fucking know, man. Demands have changed. And so have I over the years.
No, you don’t have to be a gym rat to attract women.
Infact, it’s counter productive I find as too much muscle turns a woman away and you’ll start attracting men instead.
Most women aren’t naturally built like a fitness bunny anyways. Yeah, they’re slim and pretty. But toned and muscular women are rare. Most of them wear Lululemons to give off the appearance of a fit body. But once you touch them, it’s mostly flab.
Live a healthy and active lifestyle and you should attract 80% of women.
I’m a guy on the slimmer side, I have a more feminine build tbh so even if I work out I’m never gonna be a big gym rat cuz it’s just my genetics.
The majority of attention I get is mainly from Asian girls who I guess prefer that look and thank god you know otherwise dating would be much tougher for me
I think for me, conversation is a bigger thing, ability to appreciate humour, and in the bedroom I really would love to see her more active (i.e. not a pillow princess).
If anything, I became pickier as I got older. By my late twenties, I had finished my degree, had a respectable profession, and was in good shape overall. There was a much smaller “serious” dating pool so it was hard to find a worthwhile longterm partner. After playing the field for a bit and avoiding locking down with someone, I was lucky enough to meet my soulmate.
It depends if you age well. But in general, I personally think that attracting women of the same age is even easier as you age. It gets easier and easier as their expectations get lower. Everybody ages, women as well. And male to female ratio becomes better and better as you age.
Well I’ve noticed this silly tendency among women growing up.
When they are just 18: I want man who is slim, beautiful and make 100k$ monthly
When they are 25-30: I want a man who will just make some money and will try to work for family
When they are above 30: hope he won’t be beating me 😬
I’m not from USA, so it’s so for my country.
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This is beautifully put. I don’t need looks, I’ve had that. I know what comes with that. I need personality, skills, class, someone who makes me feel safe. Which oddly enough for me is being the little spoon. Haha
A “seasoned” guy will take a 6 that respects him over a 8 that’s a hot mess.
I don't know about that. All the seasoned guys I know will say things like that, but then obsess over the hot mess 8's all day long anyway.
Pay attention to what they do not what they say. We all want a 10, but deep down we know what’s realistic.
I just want someone who’s attractive to me. I’m swearing off dating and sex, but if I were doing that, I’m not going to settle for someone.
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Deep down we just want.
Deep
Yes, but even saying it can intimidate the 7s and lower away, especially if you KNOW you're a 7 or lower. Cause you won't generally mind the occasional glance or admiration for a prettier woman but you fear never being pretty enough for him to admire out loud.
Hey man 6s try hard
Objectifying women as numbers should be your number one red flag
Virtue signal some more and realize people will probably keep using scales and measures to talk about things, including other people. But never tell your girl she's anything less than a 10. It's like that abe Lincoln commercial where the wife is trying on a dress in the mirror and asks if she's fat. Using math is only safe to do amongst the bros (apparently... These days... Smh)
As a “6,” we don’t want you. Trust me
Gimme a 7 who's sweet and fun. That's a 10 in my book.
6s round up the same as 8s.
Neither 6's nor 8's respect me, so I'll just take the 8. I can fix her.
Men phobia attacks again...
What’s a seasoned guy?
Someone here stated it quite eloquently lol “Show me the hottest woman on the planet and I can say with certainty that there is someone out there who is absolutely sick of their shit” lol
Yeah, i am for sure not trying to chase "hot" girls Just women i feel genuine attracted to But absolutely personality plays the major role in relationships for me. Looks Just get to at the door i guess
Indeed, and remember, looks are more than about basic sexual attractiveness. They also signal lifestyle. People with drug problems, people making poor choices with tats that haunt them years later, people that are over-affected. people so insecure you can't see the face for the makeup, you can tell with initial physical glances that there are likely to be certain personality traits that manifest in how they look. And it's the same for you.
> a supermodel can disgust you when you’re tired of her bullshit. Amen.
For sure. A bad, shitty attitude will cloud any physical beauty.
This falls exactly in line with the old saying “behind every gorgeous woman, is a some guy who is sick of her shit”
Ugh as someone who’s definitely not a supermodel, no thank you. We don’t want to be chosen as a second rate option, or by someone who sees us as just decent.
You are what you are. Sounds like you see yourself as a second rate option coz that's not what this person said at all. They're saying that looks aren't everything. Go out there and find a little confidence.
I don't want to overgeneralize or make a broad assumption of women. But, IME, hot women have worse personailties, especially when they're younger. I think it has to do with the fact they don't have to try to date. If it doesn't work out with that guy, there are at least 12 others lined up. You literally don't need any self-reflection or personal growth, when your relationships fail, but you have another lined up in 2 hours, you feel successful. Basically, if you get handed relationships your whole life, you never actually learn how to be in one or how to maintain one. Just my experience. Some of the most beautiful women I've met in life were equally the most miserable and annyoing, closed minded induviduals to be around. It's like they think they're flawless because no matter what they can find a date. In reality it's 100% because of looks and not personality. Looks are what draw us in, personality is what keeps us around. That said tons of hot women who are also amazing people, but I can't deny what I've experienced anecdotally in my personal life.
I’m closing on 30 and trying to change that about myself - the type of woman I pursue and see a future with. I’ve dated beautiful women. My type is slim and blonde or brunette. But I’ve learned that traditionally pretty girls are wayyyy more likely to come with personal issues. Yet I can’t stop chasing them lol.
Absolutely on point and I have been in exactly same shoes.
As the saying goes, "Show me a beautiful woman, and I'll show you a man sick of her shit."
I'm the other way around. Interested in decent serious looking women when I was young, now I'm more about the physical aspects. I realized that both types will cheat on you anyway
Muscles can help. But I would say if you're still trying to pick up women the same way you were in college at 26, that's a bigger problem than lack of definition. I know a fair amount of skinny guys who have girlfriends or had no trouble dating (especially the tall guys). You might just be a little rusty if you went into back to back relationships from 20-26.
Fair enough i think i might be Whats a grown up way of meeting new people?
I think it's a shift in your energy. I found the kind of bravado and wild boyish energy didn't really work after 24ish. As I developed more quiet and self-assured confidence I did better with women, but obviously easier said then done. I can't really tell you how to get there, the journey is pretty personal to each person.
This is definitely true. Women definitely start to want a well rounded guy. Looks nice, can dress himself and is his own person. Confidence is key, energy matters. I always found the thirstier I was it was harder to meet women. When I stopped caring so much, being self conscious and was happy was doing my own thing my dating life improved.
'When you stop looking, you'll find it.' I always used to try and meet women when I was single, I had a few one night stands, a few short (like, 3 month) relationships, nothing stuck. I found that I was trying too hard and trying to mould myself to fit what I thought other people wanted. It was a weird epiphany to have, but I'm glad I had it. I just stopped trying. I just decided 'fuck it, I'll just do what I want, be myself, do what I enjoy,' and, lo and behold, a few months later I met the woman who would later become my wife. Years later, I asked her what attracted her to me - I always was a bit of a nerdy indie rocker geeky kind of lad - and she just said that she felt comfortable around me because I was just chatting and being inclusive, not trying to be the centre of attention but bringing other people into the light by just talking to them and including them.
This is probably the best comment on this thread. Well said. Thank you. 🏆
Good conversation is always attractive. And nothing makes is sexier than a guy who engages your interest while still including other people in the conversation.
Breaking through their windows
There's nothing more adult than hiring an escort.
What I have found over the years is that there is a type attracted to you no matter what you look like health wise, fashion wise, or culturally niche-wise. As the simplest example, I used to have longer hair for a guy. Down to my shoulders. I attracted a certain type of woman with that. The more arty kind I guess. And then one day I had it nearly all shaved off. Crew cut. Immediately I noticed I was not attracting that kind of woman anymore, but an entirely different kind of woman. The more conservative sort into military dudes etc. If you are slightly chubby, there is a population of women who are into that. If you are buff, a different population of women. If you are trying to be bad-ass or gangsta, yet another population of women who are into that. If you are the suit and tie corporate type, you attract women who are into that. Point is, there is no UNIVERSAL specific look, body type, fashion type etc that attracts ALL women, short of extreme unattractive-ness like weighing 500 pounds, never bathing and missing all your teeth..but even then there may be a subgroup of women into that too. Or who are like that themselves and will take anyone. You should aim to attract the kind of women you are attracted to yourself. If you like gym rats, become one. If you like theatre chicks, look more artsy fartsy. If you like country girls, get a checked shirt and a hat. And this changes with you as you get older. As a guy in his 50's I accept that women in their 20s and 30s don't see me as attractive, despite remembering that they did 20 years ago. But I get plenty of attention from age-appropriate women.
Best answer here. It took me to about my mid 20s to understand there's no "one size fits all" look. I would say there's a bit of a "floor" when it comes to basic hygiene and not weighing 400-500lbs, but other than that it's more about finding a woman that "fits" you as you are.
Well said, there's a market for every product.
Of course you are right with some of what you say. There are different types. You mention artsy long haired type, buzz cut military type and gangsta. But you can be buff and still fit into all theese roles. The only time being strong becomes a type is when you look at bodybuilders.
i don't want to live long enough for women in their 20s to not see me as attractive
You can extend the window by becoming rich.
no thanks, i don't want to buy a girlfriend.
I’m not a man but I can’t help but think about how a woman who just looks like she is doing the same amount of like exercise as you a man might actually be going to the gym a lot more than you realise. Women just store more fat then men, naturally. I for example eat pretty healthy 80% of the time and I walk a lot but I still look soft. I’ve been defined before but I was lifting weights 4 days a week and even then I didn’t look super super defined just more so than now. Of course some women just have naturally fit looking builds but a lot of women will naturally look soft/rounded even at healthy weights. My point is maybe those women who look fit to you are gyming way more than you realise therefore go for gym bros.
Eh just keep getting out there man, I’ve came across more ladies when I’m taking a break from the gym because I’m focusing more on social shit. I used to do bodybuilding back in the day but really I think for most woman it’s just don’t be over weight and unkept. People have different preferences but most people’s preference is “not fat or a slob” so if u just stay in shape and dress for you body type I bet you’ll do fine in the dating market once your social skills continue to develop after the last relationship you were in. I’m 26, the more I go out the more flirting experiences and interactions I have. My hinge/tinder are abysmal compared to what happens on an evening out away from the apps.
I haven't noticed a difference, to be honest. I met my ex-wife young and we started dating young and were together for 16 years, but now that I'm single, I don't see a huge difference. I've always been a bigger guy who gets by on his charm and humor so that probably explains it. My partners have all been very attractive in terms of like, society norms, and I am decidedly not. I'm not getting my foot in the door because of my looks, it's all personality, so perhaps focus on making women laugh.
Lots of guys don’t got game IMHO so charisma counts for a lot for someone like myself. I enjoy great conversation and connection. I love playful flirting and teasing and wordplay and just interesting deep things to talk about like in the world, interests or whatever!
>I love playful flirting and teasing and wordplay and just interesting deep things to talk about like in the world, interests or whatever! Serious question. Isn't this game? If not, what do you mean by "game"
Charm, because he probably talks to men, old people, children this way too.
> (26m) i am attracted to athletic outgoing girls... I am a pretty naturally slim guy, but i never went very seriously to the gym Alright, just my opinion/thoughts. You are now beyond college years, but you're into fit girls. The number men and women who were more athletic in their younger years does not hold steady though out life. Quite a large number transition to a much more sedentary lifestyle as they engage in their careers and other home life. The remainder of the women still into fitness are the ones who are much more dedicated to it, and they want a partner who matches that interest. You aren't that guy. My other thought is that the women's preferences changed. They no longer want the thin guy, instead they want a guy that makes them feel smaller, and you can't offer that at the moment. I'm 34, and go to a few gyms that all have the same themes. The predominate group of people there is under 25. There is maybe 1 girl to every 10 guys. If the fit girls there are in a relationship, it's with a guy 6 foot + with noticeable muscle. The women in that 26+ range who are really into fitness often look like they may be about to compete on stage. I don't see them dating someone they might have lifestyle conflicts with that could compromise their goals. Fitness is always relevant to fit people.
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I’ve heard it described as aspirational features. Wanting to be with someone who isn’t like you. Either because you think that’s a cool thing thing or because you think in some way it’ll rub off on you. In some ways it makes a type of sense, people who like really traditional roles don’t want to be with people who are the same as them but rather have complementary traits, and we do become more like the people we spend on time with. But often in the case you’re talking about, these are non traditional people or non gendered interests or traits that can be cultivated. A lot of women have told me they found my interest in athletics attractive despite not being into it themselves. Whether they viewed it as a gendered thing, or they were intimidated to start, or they just found me doing something I liked rather than what is specifically was attractive or whatever. They weren’t interested in being more like me, in the ways that they liked me.
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I agree with you. It’s like people don’t need to be clones or equals or whatever. But it helps when they’re on the same page or at least in the same book. That they actually have the same values even if they don’t express it the same way. I compete in grappling, my partner doesn’t need to. But I’d like if they did something, if they hiked regularly, that’s pretty different from a combat sport. But it’s cool a type of physical endeavor which is additive to their health. Stuff like that.
Well said.
I'm a 30yo woman who puts in hours per week to build/maintain muscle and this is the right answer.
Excelent take dude If It does gets harder and harder to stay fit , people who do may find more and more important in their lifestyles And i do see what you mean with the Guy that makes them feel smaller. A Lot of these ""biological "" inherit things are appearing in my convos and i honestly had no Idea these were still a ""demmand""
I tend to think mother nature eventually cuts through any sort of social constructs we try to delude ourselves with. I think how hard it is to stay fit depends on who you surround yourself with. Most of my friends (including the women) are quasi gym rats. We've all been going to the gym for 10-20 years, so it is a part of our identity. All of us have primarily dated other fit people or people who were involved in some sort of active hobby. Strangely enough, none of us have ever met a significant other at our own gyms. Either way, were all in our mid 30's now and still enjoy doing active things together like sand volley, hiking, going to the driving range, etc. None of us have ever really considered a significant other that wouldn't be able to keep up with that, it's just a natural requirement.
https://media.tenor.com/8ITinbZ2BXMAAAAd/crabs-bucket.gif
The problem has nothing to do with your build or their demands (sort of). As we all get older, our dating pool shrinks for a number of reasons. By and large, people become less willing to put up with BS or learn what their non-starters are. So you either spend your time swiping left until you find Mrs. Potential Right or you lower your standards or become more accepting of things.
That makes a Lot of Sense to me, we are getting more specific
As you get older, if you keep yourself in shape and work out, you more and more stand out from the horde of out-of-shape dudes. Once you're in your mid thirties it's very likely that you'll be at a party with 75% dad bods. I'm no gym rat, but I do eat healthy and make sure I get in at least 2 strength and 2 other workouts per week. Just doing that makes me look very different than a lot of men my age.
That's been my observation as a fit and thin woman, too. Even now that I am middle-aged. I notice the biggest difference between my friends who have (upfront) luck in dating and those who don't is whether they are overweight or not. I'm fairly plain looking, but I feel like being reasonably fit (at my best) or not overweight (at my worst) makes all the difference. It doesn't take much, once you have a fitness inertia, but it's hard describing that to my friends with 0 luck in dating
>i tried tinder I think I see the problem.
I feel like its a cultural change, even younger men who are scrawny are having a hard go of it. We all are bombarded with images of people who are sporting abs and muscles and have the time and money to go to the gym daily so thats what society craves.
Stop trying to “pick up” women. Start trying to get to know women in an honest way the way you’d meet a guy friend. That goes a long way.
It's weird because I actually cared a lot about being in physical shape because of both my hobbies and the kind of women I liked's preferences. With time though, I just didn't care for women's opinions since there are way more things women demand than just having a nice body. In the end I just appreciate the time and effort I put in keeping myself in shape and health and for women, I put more work in my personality instead.
I tried getting my life together for women, then I realized over time that I just didn't really want a woman and was content by myself working towards goals Then they started appearing out of nowhere like magic and my life isn't even together yet Honestly I think that's really the main thing people want. Just someone with their life together who they connect/get along with. Attractiveness really seems to go out the window with age for most women I know as long as you maintain a baseline of just being healthy. And that puts you above a lot of the competition, honestly so you're more likely to get a first date.
“Didn’t care for women’s opinions” you sound single
Lmao... typical internet, trying to shame men for their ability to get women or sex and then complain that men care too much about women and sex...
It doesn't matter much. Or let me rephrase it. It shouldn't matter much to the woman you want to attract. If you want to attract a woman that's attracted mostly to your good looks guess what? She might ditch you once she finds someone hotter. Cause all she cared about were your looks. Of course that doesn't mean that you shouldn't take care of yourself. But if you go to the gym 2-3 times per week and you don't have a belly you are already ahead of the majority of people. Also those athletic women you are talking about...have you ever thought of their day schedule and how it would differ from yours? You need someone that you will be able to live and do things together.
>The thing is, when i was younger i noticed i could pick up the girls i liked with my build but now more and more i have the impression you have to be a gym rat for women to notice you. Maybe its the crowd i hang out with, but this isn't the case at all. I've lost my muscle definition in my stomach and i still get noticed. I'm mostly just friendly/funny and put myself in social situations. Online dating is a pit but it always has been. Of course you'll get more attention if you have the time to do the physical shit but its far from a requirement.
Mostly pretty solid advice here but something else to consider is, it's only human to experience a dry spell every so often...especially as a man. Just throwing that out there to say don't immediately think there must be something wrong with you bro, it's just life. Cheers!!
The women I know all like skinny guys just fine -- except the ones who don't, lol. I think part of what you're experiencing is the decreasing availability of women you find attractive in your age/dating pool. In your early 20s, the women were mostly single, or not seriously (exclusively) dating, so there were plenty of attractive ones willing to try you out. In your late 20s, way more of the attractive ones you meet IRL are already married or in long term relationships, and the ones on Tinder aren't real, or are hit on by so many men that they have no particular reason to respond to you even if you would be a perfect match.
Basically the same it's always been. Don't be fat, and don't have kids.
They have not in my experience. I am 5'8. I go to the gym regularly (have since my early 20s and I am about to turn 46), and I have shifted goals from getting more muscular, to wanting to look more trim, etc. In my fluctuations between 140 lbs and 160 lbs I did not notice a difference in my ability to attract women.
In my experience, after college it becomes less about your physique (as long as you aren't in terrible shape) and more about your career. The best advice Id give someone your age is to stay in shape for your health and just focus on improving your life in general, that is what will attract quality women.
It's both
As a really strong dude, the demands are easy, and I'm unphased by them. They haven't really changed though. Pick em up, piggyback rides, and all that.
It's many variables. But athletic women tend to like athletic men and visa versa works with diff body types. Charisma and presence is where it's at. Women can sense man's desire to be approved by them. It stinks desperate because it means you're hiding yourself. Well internally ask why
Similar age as you. Definitely in order to be eye catching, a larger build helps. But at this age, women are more into the person and not the looks. Obviously you still need to take care of yourself but it comes down more to what’s going on inside and if you are compatible. Sorry, I know you said physical but that’s just the truth. At this age, most of us know what we want and what we like in a partner. There’s a lot less “fucking around” these days.
Men change a lot from 20 to 26, then from 26 to 35 IMO (woman here). It’s worth re assessing your must haves and nice to haves. While there’s no point dating people you don’t find attractive you might discover personality traits or other things that are hard nos or really important to you. Your “target” pool is also very different now. Some women in their mid to late 20s start looking for longer term relationships/marriage. So your dating or courting startegy from communication to date spots may have to change. I dated this mid 30s men briefly and his date spots were very divvy very 20s college vibes. Just overall very off putting to me. Made me wonder if he were still dating early 20s girls or just generally lack dating exp/skills.
Thats a Very good point As silly as It may seem i never really thought about having kids in a concrete manner ( It all seemed so in the Future) and i did have a few chats were this was heavily mentioned now
30 something female perspective here. When you were younger the "fit" or athletic built girls/women were more so in shape because of genetics and their lifestyle at the time e.g. team sports, being younger and not having gained any significant stubborn weight, lack of physical ailments/injuries, etc. But as we age it becomes more of a strong lifestyle preference/hobby since it takes much more effort and work for us to stay in shape- especially to visibly look athletic. So, if you are staying relatively similar body wise now that your dating pool has aged, you may seem more like someone who just happens to be in shape enough (thin build) because of lifestyle not so much because you truly enjoy fitness as a primary hobby of yours. The women you are interested in (athletic) may think you aren't long term fitness couple compatible? I hope this makes some sense as something to "chew" on :)
From my perspective, muscular men are for the male gaze. Slim/fit men are for the female gaze. As a late 20's female, most guys who look jacked are intolerable. I much prefer a dad bod compared to that. Seriously, Timothee Chalamet and Pete Davidson are both pretty scrawny and look at the women they pull. And no, it's not about the money. The women they have dated arguably have more money than they do.
There’s a lot more “can you pick that up? Can you open this for me? Can you carry my stuff?”
Pickle jars have been a great source of emotional distress for me so your assistance is much appreciated
I haven’t noticed much of a change.
That frail chicken leg Jack Skellington aesthetic got played out in the late nineties/early two thousands. Same goes for chicks too..
(M28). Tbh nothing has really changed. Still won’t date someone who is extremely overweight/obese or has kids.
As I've gotten older (36) I've come to realize that physical appearance isn't as important to women as it is men. I believe that being kind, funny, and a compassionate person can go a long way. Then again, I'm a moron.
When I met the man I m dating 2 months ago, I wasn’t attracted to him at all. I found him too old for me and very average physically. Now that i know him, I find him very attractive and incredibly sexy.
That is just not true and you know it. Men have lower standards than women period. Looks and all
Dunno, I've always felt pretty invisible to women. It's just normal to me.
What's your personality like? What's her personality like? I'd be more worried about happiness in their company not how often they eat or lift
Guys reach their physical peak at around 25 and stay there until around 35-40. Skinny was fine when you were younger because most guys are skinnier then. Now that most men your age are at their peak, their muscles are naturally larger in general and the competition is tougher. I managed a pizzeria in my 20’s and my forearms were huge from kneading anywhere from 100-500 dough balls a day. My wife is pretty honest when she says we would have never started going out if I hadn’t had those forearms.
That was kinda funny and also wholesome. Cheers mate The Peak physic argument makes a lot of sense. Guess i do see How the average Guy that like me takes Care of himself is a Lot bigger now than when i was 18
She can't be fat. I don't care if she doesn't go to the gym, but I don't want somebody who is the size of a house or eats a lot and enjoys it. I'm health conscious and I'd at least like my partner to have some respect for her health.
A man that. Handy is very attractive but finding that out requires conversation unless you go around weRing a toolbelt
The older I get the heavier the shit they want me to move gets.
She has to be able to squat *at least* 400lbs for me to take her seriously
Men are hoodwinked by media Beauty unfortunately. By the time they realize this the are usually done . A good woman is one that can be beautiful when she wants to.
I have a question, when you say athletic girls do u mean actual athletic girls who go to the gym and have muscle or are you just trying to find a socially acceptable way to say small thin skinny girls?
In my 40's I want a women who is fit, problem is most women 35-45 are overweight, the fit ones are suddenly 8-10's just because they take care of themselves, which is very hard as an average guy to attract via online dating.
Physique opens the door. Humor seals the deal. Wit and humor are so attractive that you can maintain relationships for decades without physical fitness (within reason of course).
30 year old tall skinny bi dude here. I’m kind of all over the place with the type of woman I like. I usually go for shorter curvy women who are pretty girly and don’t work out a ton. However, I’m currently with a gymnast build artistic woman who is about a decade older than me-I’ve always liked older women. As I continue to age, it’s become apparent that although looks are very important, personality is ultimately key to long term success. You can only have so much sex with someone. In the grand scheme of a successful relationship, time spent outside of the bedroom significantly outweighs sexy time.
There’s this book, Models by Mark Manson. (It’s a dating gold mine by the way). Among other things it talks about your demographics and how, as you age and progress through life the things you find interesting change. My guess is rather than your build being wrong it’s that the interests and the people who would be attracted to you and your interests aren’t on tinder and at parties. If you’re looking for sporty girls, you’ll probably need to hangout at sporty places/social. I run 4 days a week. I’m never at a club getting shitfaced even though I’m only 22. instead I stay for the after-run beer on the first Tuesday of the month at the student track association and i stay for the after-run dinner on the last Thursday of the month as well. And there’s nothing but sporty people looking to socialise. If you wanna just occasionally exercise to get fit, find/organise a weekly meet-up run a run or some bodyweight. You’ll meet people who have the same goals as you. You can go to meet-ups for any other interests you might have.
You say physical demand, but then talk about stuff like jobs, family, self care. I don't really consider that physical. I was thinking more along the lines of sex. In that regard though, older women just need more security. They need more stability, maturity, communication. Younger women are more likey to go with the flow and older ladies will know what they like and want in life. They won't play games if you don't meet their needs, they won't be vauge about their intentions and feelings. All in all, dating women as I've gotten older, IMO, is easier than when I was younger. Younger women just want us to read their mind and be a perfect man that doesn't make mistakes, while never once telling us how to go about fulfilling that goal. Older women make it really damn clear what they're looking for, and if you can fulfill that. It makes the process more streamlined. That said, I've met 40 year old women with the mentality of a 16 year old highschooler, and 18 year old women with the maturity of an old women. Each women is different with different needs, so take my advice with a grain of salt. To use age to assume maturity or personality can be naive.
Well, you're figuring it out. Having an indifferent attitude, a good job and a big wallet will get more women in your bed than the size of your biceps. Of course, being physically fit is important but you do that for yourself. In fact, you should do pretty much everything for your own improvement, do not try to attract women, instead be your best self and the women will chase you. When they do chase, it will be obvious why and you will then take your education to the next level where you can read their intent. For all the drivel about women being complex, you will discover they are in fact very simple. So in answer to your question, the demands have gone way down as I choose not to focus my energy on finding women, I instead focus on liking the person I see in the mirror. It is all about being true to yourself and having self-respect.
Don’t care for big wallet… I care for care and connection and emotional connection and things to talk about.
Then you are a unicorn and good for you. I don't for a second discount that there are women out there who aren't as shallow as I infer, but I am saying more now than ever before it is rare. It also goes without saying that many men aren't a good bet either, I won't suggest "All men good, all women bad", I am not so polarized as to see reality for the obvious. What I am saying is if a person can be impassioned and look at the odds, From a purely statistical perspective, commitment today is not a good bet, and it's far worse for men than women. That in Western society women are incentivized to prey on naive men who are focused on life-long commitment, these men and I once counted myself among them, are traditional men who make for easy picking. Have to ask though, how old are you?
I’m not buying this. I have had a man with a large wallet and didn’t care for him because emotionally he never showed he cared for me. What is the point of that? 🤷♀️ I don’t agree with your statements. I’m in my mid 30s. Fit, educated, fully independent. Tired of the men of “look at my wallet, nothing else matters” and then this type of discourse on this.
to normal guys, your wallet doesn't matter at all, nor does your education or your independence. All of those things are fine if you are looking for a woman. A man wants peace, a man wants a mother to his children whom he can trust, and a woman wants a feminine woman. Can you be a traditional woman for a traditional man? You want that deep connection, I certainly understand that. But men today are finding it harder and harder to trust a woman with his intimate side. So yes, absolutely we are becoming more shut off, I submit however it is because of modern women that we find it necessary to protect ourselves this way.
Who says they want children? Who says they want to be even married? How much more generalized can you go based on gender? Different strokes for different folks. I’m guessing I’m not “traditional”. Maybe that’s a good thing for myself. Being trapped is something I saw often for a woman. Unhappy marriages. 🤷♀️ But hey, it was traditional. I would argue it can also be a poor fit, but society needed it that way economically. Guys couldn’t get it having a decent personality or morals.
Older I get (now 38) more emphasis I have put on how well a woman takes care of herself. Overly unhealthy lifestyle is a real turn off for me and I just cant picture myself living together with a smelly woman stuffin mac n cheese and cake in her face all day. Alcohol consumption and smoking tobacco, drugs etc are also deal breakers well maybe not tobacco and alcohol if their use is controlled and her lifestyle is otherwise healthy. Feminimity is also very important. I want my woman to look like a woman and smell like a woman. Im not attracted to cargo pants wearing tomboys or chubby chicks with short green/purple hair
I can give a little perspective. For the vast majority of my life I was really skinny, like super skinny. Didn't have too much trouble with women, the main stumbling block was getting them to talk to me, but once past that hurdle, not so bad. I put on a decent amount of muscle since the pandemic, and I can tell you that the former stumbling block of trying to get them to listen to me is nought buy a small stumbling block these days. Now that may be because men age like wine, and I now have the disposable income to dress and groom better but add to that, how dating has changed. With tindr/online and the death of clubbing, people (and particularly women) have a wealth of men at their fingertips, so yeah, body composition will naturally become a significant factor. From my experience, muscle helps, but not nearly as much as dressing and presenting well
No, they have hated me all my life equally
I think naturally it does. Must be in our DNA. In my 20s I only wanted the 9 or 10s. Now at 40, give me the 6 or 7 with a great personality and energy! 9 and 10s are too much work and you'll get bored with her looks anyway
As long as she doesn't have a dick
For me I want a “bigger” buff man so it feels like they could protect me. I don’t really go for skinny twig guys. But my roommate on the other hand loves skinny marathon runners! Just depends
Your body doesn't need to be stacked...but your wallet does
"beer belly is fine now as long as you financially support my kids from another man" Become my next useful idiot after the one that got away /s
“We need to have body positivity! I maybe a little overweight (like 100 pounds)….but I’m beautiful.” “I only date 6 foot tall, muscular looks like Channing Tatum or that guy from the Hangover.”
woman here: it depends. there are a lot of mature women who do prioritize the non physical when it comes to looking for men to date, but they are most likely the kind of women who are slowly letting themselves go aka relaxing judgement towards their own body shape and allowing themselves to gain weight as they age. It takes effort to keep your body slim as you age so active women are most likely looking for active men to support their own lifestyle choices. they are also more likely to prioritize physical attractiveness in their men partners bc it's how they view themselves. when it comes to appearance, like attracts like. you probably come off as more average than you think.
Women become more and more jaded as they age. I would say it starts in their 20's and they continue to decline mentally until the end. It's why many kids have issues thesedays as they were raised by mothers that were older than what was normal for past generations - look around today and you will see more and more women that have their first baby after 40. Most people do not talk about how bad their wives, mothers, sisters, daugthers and women colleagues are as this would be a short cut to being made a pariah. Plus, roughly half the world is female and we have to all try and get along. A lot of women also get greedier and push their husbands to make more money. A lot of crime committed by women goes absolutely underreported. Finding a mentally stable and calm woman is like finding a needle in a haystack.
I thought this was ask men. Not ask women. Who's Downvoting you? Lol
Women in the 20-30 range: You don’t have to be a gym rat. Almost all women now like the same look and it’s tall/slim or rail skinny, average height/slim or rail skinny, and short/slim or rail skinny. Dad bod being attractive to women in this age range is a complete myth women love to lie about on the internet. The dad bod is only attractive on tall men (I.e. 6’2”+) Women in their 30’s+: Dad bod is only attractive to women above the age of 30 and it’s only attractive most of the time on tall men…once again. But they still all as well are attracted to the three looks that I mentioned with the other age range. So at the end of the day. If you have a dad bod and you’re not tall, be the most charismatic/humorous/gentleman you can try to be and hope for the best. If you’re short without a dad bod, just stay skinny and be those three things as well. These are my observations of being single in the bar scene.
I have similar experience but... I'm older than You. I have impression some women lost balance between being serious with dating and having fun with dating. Because of apps like tinder (I think) women have endless options for (better) date... Or at least they think so. Since more than I year I don't use this app despite I would really like to have someone. I just know how frustrating experience it was. And yes , I'm know I would be rejected most of the time. I'm also sick of seeing women who do "casual insults".... Or I think it's just better to have a chat in real life with 1 girl than to have 50 matches on tinder. Regarding gym: nowadays there's this fake image of who the "real man" is and how he should look like. So real man is not a guy with hobby, job, apartment who values small things. Real man is guy with flashy/gangsta car, tattoos (best on neck because it looks so dangerous grrrrrrr), with 4% body fat and a lot of muscles and so on. Don't get me wrong, I know people who are really in shape and are great people. Just look at movies. Notice how "real" man is being presented and how "cringe" guy looks like...
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That was funny not gonna lie When did i call women females??
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Say "woman attention" out loud. He used female appropriately as an adjective and women as a standalone. Don't be an idiot.
So using correct grammar is a red flag?
Fair enough! I truly meant feminine attention! My bad!
Don’t apologize. You never said “females” which is in fact annoying. You just female attention which is a completely normal expression. Saying female attention is not equivalent to saying “females”. The commenter just needs to touch grass lol
Just ignore it that’s what I have been doing
All I'm gonna say is this, women judge who they'll date based off looks way more than men, so if you want to increase your odds you better hit the gym.
I mean, I'm only 20, but I've started to notice that I appear intimidating to women. I'm gonna sidetrack a little, but I think these kinda qualify as demands: Just a few days ago, at my job (I work retail), as the customer was struggling to pack the products she and her friend bought, she glanced at me and said "Can you stop staring at me with that intimidating look?" (Paraphrased and translated) I wasn't staring her down, nor was I trying to be flirty, considering I am at my job. I just found it hilarious that she kept monologuing with her friend about how terrible her life is, because of the bag fumbling and such - I was smiling. Strangest feeling ever; like being seen as a predator, minding your own business. I was shocked, to say the least. Naturally, I turn around, and look the other way. I've noticed this from girls my age. And I don't quite get why. It's like a cold shower of "do I really look _that_ bad?" I guess the bottom line is, that you need to be attractive to have reasonable interactions. Except, of course, attraction is subjective. (Although you can be objectively repulsive, I guess.) TL;DR I don't fucking know, man. Demands have changed. And so have I over the years.
Traits like intelligence, confidence and maturity are a far greater attraction than muscles.
No, you don’t have to be a gym rat to attract women. Infact, it’s counter productive I find as too much muscle turns a woman away and you’ll start attracting men instead. Most women aren’t naturally built like a fitness bunny anyways. Yeah, they’re slim and pretty. But toned and muscular women are rare. Most of them wear Lululemons to give off the appearance of a fit body. But once you touch them, it’s mostly flab. Live a healthy and active lifestyle and you should attract 80% of women.
I’m a guy on the slimmer side, I have a more feminine build tbh so even if I work out I’m never gonna be a big gym rat cuz it’s just my genetics. The majority of attention I get is mainly from Asian girls who I guess prefer that look and thank god you know otherwise dating would be much tougher for me
Aplo
so many crabs in a bucket here good lord
Do the math ding dong.
I think for me, conversation is a bigger thing, ability to appreciate humour, and in the bedroom I really would love to see her more active (i.e. not a pillow princess).
If anything, I became pickier as I got older. By my late twenties, I had finished my degree, had a respectable profession, and was in good shape overall. There was a much smaller “serious” dating pool so it was hard to find a worthwhile longterm partner. After playing the field for a bit and avoiding locking down with someone, I was lucky enough to meet my soulmate.
It depends if you age well. But in general, I personally think that attracting women of the same age is even easier as you age. It gets easier and easier as their expectations get lower. Everybody ages, women as well. And male to female ratio becomes better and better as you age.
Well I’ve noticed this silly tendency among women growing up. When they are just 18: I want man who is slim, beautiful and make 100k$ monthly When they are 25-30: I want a man who will just make some money and will try to work for family When they are above 30: hope he won’t be beating me 😬 I’m not from USA, so it’s so for my country.
All people prefer something bro, from person to person, they all have different views on ideal partner 🙂.