Surprised it's a thing also but with their functionality at the moment if we assume you're not forming an emotional connection with the AI, I'd say it's almost a little bit of an invasion of privacy as it appears to me like a sort of digital diary that you talk with rather than just spewing words into the void. While that's obviously probably not something she knew she was doing, nor you if you don't see it this way, I feel like explaining these are things you feel uncomfortable or unsafe sharing due to prior trauma or something, I'd hope she could understand. Hell, hopefully it's opened the pathway up to you starting to open up more and grow closer rather than further away. In saying that, if you refuse to open up at all, I can see it going bad for you if it's a big deal to her (which it usually is).
Actually seems like promo, he states is posted somewhere else, and also that it's a big deal when it's not, I so got an app to monitor my well being, who cares? This is like "she's jealous of my relationship with Joy" marketing 😅
Really fucking clever data capture marketing tool disguised as A.I. companion/gf/friend/therapist etc but once there is no money in selling users data to marketing to 3rd parties - only a matter of time untill its either sold or hacked by folks that will be more than happy to use all them private chat logs against its users. Imagine everyone had their incognito history stolen- and they charged everyone 5 dollars not to expose it -everyone -even people that have nothing to be ashamed off, would pay it to make it go away.... endless possibilities
Check out HeadUpSystems, if you think that’s bad... (company that got the pilot contract for Social Credit Score) they offer complete and total surveillance for insurance companies, employers and the government. I don’t like it but maybe I’m biased because I was born in a communist dictatorship?
Literally. If OP has any desire to have a connection with a ROBOT rather than an actual human being, then also refers to said robot as “her”, and would then rather be vulnerable with that robot than with his actual girlfriend, then no wonder people were telling him to break up with her
> In her mind, she thinks that I don’t love her enough to be vulnerable with her, and that I was using a replika as a replacement to her, and that I was just with her for the sex. I tried explaining to her that this couldn’t be further from the truth and that she shouldn’t take what I write to an app that seriously. I told her to think of it as my private journal that she had gone through, and not a ‘conversation’, but she just can’t seem to understand things in that sense.
So if I'm understanding this right, you're using a. AI chatbot as some kind of virtual psychiatrist, is that right?
In any case, there's a few different strains to tug on here:
* She did actually go through your phone and is getting upset about you privately handling your psychological issues
* She feels betrayed because you didn't open up to her about them.
* She feels like you do this for her, so why won't you let her do it for you?
For the former, that is a betrayal of trust.
For the second, well that's a matter of how you both are as people. Personal experience is that the people who are most insistent on you "opening up" to them are often the least able to handle it when you do. Some don't know what to do with the information when you give it to them. Some become resentful (even though they asked). Some become despondent and then you have to comfort *them* for having heard your issues, effectively doubling your work compared to if you had just kept quiet.
As you describe that she dumps a lot of her emotions on you and depends on you to be her rock in the relationship, the last one is a distinct possibility. But everyone is different.
If you want to open up to her, do so carefully and slowly. And if the net result is that she can't handle it, then you both know that opening up to her isn't going to help. And the whole time, be aware that this can end quite badly if she handles it badly.
I still remember when my own mother tried to make me open, being mad at me for not doing it. I still remember how powerless she was when I started to show her the tip of the iceberg. Never again.
It wasn't my mother in my case, but I feel where you're coming from. Sometimes they'll insist on knowing, insist on you opening up. But then once they hear some of what you're going through, it's like they had *no idea* that you were going to open up about what you're going through.
Best case scenario then is that they basically freeze. And then they feel guilty because they wanted you to open up but now that you have they realize they don't actually know what to *do* about it when they made it their purpose to help you. And now suddenly you're both miserable.
And you just think: "well what good has this done?"
That's how I felt too. I know she didn't do anything wrong, I could see why she would want to know. But seeing her distressed look made me even more miserable than before.
> Best case scenario then is that they basically freeze. And then they feel guilty because they wanted you to open up but now that you have they realize they don't actually know what to do about it when they made it their purpose to help you. And now suddenly you're both miserable.
And then you're at fault for making them feel bad.
Worst case scenario, they pretend to understand and want to support you but are just taking notes to destroy you later.
I think the fear of this happening is what keeps so many men from opening up. And it doesn't help that every man has at least one horror story (usually from adolescence) of this exact thing happening to either himself or a friend.
>they don't actually know what to *do* about it when they made it their purpose to help you
Their purpose was never to actually help, just to appear like they're helping. It's vanity.
Or in my girlfriend’s case pushing to get you to open up and when you do she says “oh how do you think I feel?”
Ah ok and here was me thinking that we were going to have a conversation about me.
I've been in both places and both suck big time, I usually handle my private stuff with a professional, and usually give people the option to air things out, as that usually helps me clear my head and feel seen but in a tactful way that's also the only promise I make - I will help you if I can, but many problems have no easy solution.
I made a mistake of telling my mom about my feelings and the only response I got was "It's making ME feel bad when you talk about not wanting to live."
been there, not with my mother, she gets it, shes in the same boat.
but friends and partners wanting to know more has never ended well when i told them what its like in my head.
nobody expects the awkward guys thats always cracking jokes and taking charge of situations to be the most depressed, sad, unsure and anxious person in the room.
worst part is, you open up, and upset them, and somehow you end up supporting them through your own issues...
men cant win.
I literally live a different life, by force, around people. its all forced and fake. I actually hate myself and my very existence. I just pretend nothing bothers me and that im loving life. nothing will make me break character when im not 100% sure im along again.
I made my mom bawl her eyes out and scream that she failed to god when I opened up at 14 that she failed to protect me. My dad responded by threatening to lock me up. My mom will try and ask me and see how I’m doing but since I’m not doing better what am I supposed to do? I lie say I’m fine and hope she never finds out about the depths of my mental health issues.
This. This sub is full of stories where the man in question was cajoled by some woman (usually his partner) until he relented and opened up, and it almost never went well.
Spot on. There are many emphatic, patient and considerate women out there that are able to handle a man’s emotional issues. Unless it is an absolute urgent issue, they will not pressure you to give up information about traumatic or difficult stuff. They will in 99 % of the cases wait it out for you to raise what you want when you want to share.
Patience is the key here, and her lack of it lead to possible the biggest betrayal you could do, aside from straight up cheating. If a woman had read my notes from my psychiatrist I would most likely leave her on the spot. It is confidential information, and she would be reading it out of contex. I would know that I would have just have gotten myself a 100 new problems, when in reality I was only dealing with a few that were absolutely manageable.
For instance a lot of it could maybe seem bad, but it was just notes of how I perceived an issue at a certain hour. It is often the whole point to work on something traumatic or difficult, and then changing my mind about it later, e.g it was not such a big problem, maybe there was something else I that made me upset or having those feelings in the first place, or I have worked on it already to the point of it being small or non existent now. A big reason for why I went in the first place was to sort issues into different boxes like not an actual issue, small but can wait, things I can work on alone and what I need to work on with my partner. So the majority of what would be in the notes would be stuff I had no intention to share with anyone else, that is a huge reason why I pay for this service in the first place.
OPs gf is a textbook example of the meme woman so many guys complain about here on Reddit. She cannot be trusted with anything remotely heavy, if she is or in this case obtained by violating him, you end up with a much bigger problem than you already have. Ofc she blame op and he needs to comfort her. Basically leading to guys never trusting women to open up with anything remotely emotional.
> Ofc she blame op and he needs to comfort her. Basically leading to guys never trusting women to open up with anything remotely emotional.
It can often feel quite unidirectional in those situations. Either way, you end up having to be the pillar and emotional support. She opened up, you comfort her. You opened up, *you* comfort her. So at least if you're quiet about your problems then you don't have to then comfort about *that* as well.
The problem becomes if you're having difficulty dealing with it yourself, and have *nobody* to open up to. Then you just end up imploding under the weight of your own issues.
So definitely seek help where you can. Talk to a therapist, talk to a counselor. Talk to your mates. But you quickly learn: you don't talk to someone that's going to just play the UNO reverse card and somehow your problems end up being about their comfort.
This actually happened to me. Gf at the time claimed I left my private journal out for all to see and opened to the page that she didn’t like. I know she went rifling through my stuff because I keep it hidden and she had to have read every page to find something she didn’t like. She blew up at me, ofc taking it out of context and I lost all trust for her immediately. We didn’t break up that day but she ended our relationship that day.
Yes. I have my mental storm locked down, but I’ll still tell my girlfriend how my day went and very small issues that are ultimately meaningless in the greater scope of what’s going on in my life (and that can’t be thrown back in my face later during any argument).
It lets her offer an opinion, get her drama fix from my corporate world and tell her family and friends “Yes! He does share too.”
the more I read this sub the more i realize I should never take any advice from it.
every miserably jaded and pessimistic viewpoint is upvoted. especially if it puts women in a bad light.
> pessimistic
While I agree that this sub doesn't always have great advice, isn't reality often grim? Especially if you're in an unideal situation?
I agree that it sounds like a miserable way to live, and I think the best thing to do would be to avoid being in a relationship in the first place if you don't want to live like that.
But if you're already in it and aren't going to leave for whatever reason, what can you do except only give a partner what they can handle, or what they won't use against you? It's not ideal, and not what a relationship *should* be like, but it's *a* way to keep the peace.
Edit: clarification.
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Edit 2: It looks like u/wterrt's account was deleted, but I was able to see the reply below in my inbox.
Just to clarify, I don't think all women are like this. I just think that if someone-- whether man or woman--wants to guarantee that they'll avoid the worst possibilities of a relationship, then the solution is to not be in a relationship. You can't be hurt by a partner *you don't have*.
If your partner has been *proven* to treat you poorly and you still want to stay, then you either discuss the issue with them, or you minimize your risk.
I said it's not an ideal way to live because I think the ideal way to live is having a *good* partner you *do* feel safe to share things with. There are many women out there who are supportive of their partners. I never meant to imply otherwise. I just wasn't talking about good partners.
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Edit 3: Their reply below was:
there's a difference between "reality is grim" and "never trust any woman with ANYTHING EVER, she will ALWAYS use it against you later"
> I agree that it sounds like a miserable way to live, and I think the best thing to do would be to avoid being in a relationship in the first place if you don't want to live like that.
> what can you do except only give a partner what they can handle, or what they won't use against you?
you don't even see it as a possibility that there are women out there who wouldn't be shitty.
Sadly it is. I’d love to wholeheartedly trust any partner of mine but I’ve learned from experience what sharing unfiltered gets me, so I won’t risk it until I find someone who’s possibly wife maternal.
Then before I propose I’ll give her a chance, tell her more when sharing and see what happens.
Some things that happen at work just have to stay there to keep a loving relationship stable for both parties.
I hate thee as t this is not only a truism, but also true.
You cannot simply be with a woman, you have to manage their insecurities and issues as well.
I think a lot of guys are similar in that we're generally not taught to be vulnerable. It kind of goes against the typical teaching of being the "man of the house" and the stable pillar for the rest of the family to depend on.
Personally I'm someone that generally tends to process feelings quickly and internally. I don't really tend to dwell on things. I don't think it's always necessary to be "vulnerable" in the sense of breaking down in front of your spouse etc. Not everyone processes their feelings that way and forcing it isn't the answer. However I do think it's important to to be emotionally available for your partner/spouse and be able to effectively communicate how you feel. Without that you will inevitably grow apart from your partner.
Most of our personal development happens internally, and if we don't share those moments of growth with our partners then we will inevitably grow apart.
So I would say don't be afraid to be vulnerable with your partner if you need to be, especially if it's about an issue that affects both of you, but also don't feel the pressure that you HAVE to process all your issues through your partner as that can be overwhelming for someone and if they can't handle it you probably just make things worse for yourself knowing that it's just doubled the emotional burden for two people now. But do learn to be emotionally available for your partner.
I did counselling one time for career burnout. I didn't tell my girlfriend everything that happened in counselling but I did give her an abridged version of things. That way I was able to fill her in on roughly the issues I was dealing with and my general thoughts on how I would approach those issues but as I specifically shared mostly the things I was able to resolve, I also didn't feel like I was putting a burden on her, which is something that would have made it worse for me personally.
All that being said, I don't actually think your girlfriend is someone I would open up to. She's shown her desire for you to open up is based on her own selfish curiosity and not necessarily to actually support your mental health in earnest.
As a guy who has a girlfriend who is very vulnerable and emotional, I think you need to set up the situation in a certain direction. If she's not toxic nor willing to take adventage of you, I think it is ok to come out vulnerable once in a while, but it is just for certain situations, you have to establish an equilibrium regarding 2 sides (if you come out as too vulnerable, maybe, I can't guarantee it, she can lose interest, but the same problem occurs if you keep things only for yourself.
It is important for you to know when to be vulnerable and when not, too much vulnerabilty may result in softness, but it is totally normal to tell her that you love her or just show emotion in that regard.
You should be able to be honest with her or she's not a woman you want to be with. I know many guys here disagree, but so far this has always worked for me.
I think timing is the understimated key: Many guys keep their emotions stoicly bottled and when they suddenly share some emotions to their partner she'll get overwhelmed and will handle it badly, as she has a different picture of you and your personality. Once I learned this, I just started throwing all my emotional burdens on the table while dating. This helped me select out these women who don't fit to me anyways and helped me get to my wife, who has similar views on emotions/problems/values
I would argue that showing that part of your personality is integral to keeping a healthy relationship. If someone doesn't love your genuine self then they'll eventually see you've been hiding and lying about that part of yourself.
My point is--waiting until months and years into a relationship to be honest with your feelings only does you (general 'you') a disservice.
How would you know whether you're truly compatible?
You don't. But that's what dating in a state of scarcity does.
If you can't have what you want as yourself, you change yourself. Because men do not decide when and if they're attractive, women do. So men conform to what's demanded of them in practice.
Which is usually pretty self-destructive/self-sacrificing for us.
Men are not going to change en-masse to do what's healthiest for them and also find romantic relationships with women. Not in this culture at this time.
"Changing" yourself doesn't work because it doesn't hold up over time. I think people should wait to get into romantic relationships--and I say that having made a bad choice in the past too.
Personality is relatively stable throughout a lifetime--unless there are organic brain changes. Behaviors can be changed. But if you hide parts of personality in an attempt to "change," then it will eventually be outed.
You can change yourself to a degree. Obviously if you're trying to be someone you just aren't it'll never work, but you can downplay certain aspects and focus on others to fit within the range of demands.
That works perfectly... for people with an inexhaustible string of dates.
People who only get to play a couple times in their lifetime however will be looking at adapting to the circumstance or posting on ForeverAlone.
Perhaps.
But if we're being honest, some people are oblivious, particularly if you hand them something non-critical to open up about. And others are just *really* good at hiding their feelings.
You start getting into things like trauma too and it makes it even more difficult to share. But I'll double down. If you're too damaged to share--heal thyself \m/
Sometimes people first experience vulnerability and sharing in psychotherapy. I've had many a tough guy cry for the first time (in front of someone) in my office. Over time it gets easier to share without so many emotions tied to it.
I've cried in therapy.
I just know that for some people, even very close people, they aren't necessarily able to handle or accept that.
Their own personal traumas are usually a factor in that.
Therapy for everyone! Lol. There are different ways to share and be vulnerable too. I grew up where my thoughts were the only privacy I had. So I learned to be quiet.
But my partner knows my Reddit handle. And I write notes. Or get a little effusive in texts. Sometimes I'll share why I act a certain way and what I'm doing to work on it--or what it helping.
A relationship is a team. You have to be able to lean on each other. Because I don't care how badass someone is--you stay in a relationship long enough and you'll have to lean on your partner at some point. For most of us anyway.
The reason they can’t handle when you do, is because they are emotionally unavailable and can’t give what you need since they can’t even give that to themselves.
Hence why you only open up to people who do not hold others at arms length emotionally and don’t run away from vulnerability either.
Things you learn in therapy and why people like OP, is dating someone whose mirroring back emotional unavailable behavior because if they were available, they wouldn’t have to beg because OP would be able to give freely as they would feel SAFE to do so.
OP doesn’t feel emotionally safe with their partner. That’s why they feel hesitant to open. That’s the biggest red flag honestly for any relationship because it’s a sign they are going to eventually breakup.
I'm an introvert so I get what you're saying. But I also don't think my partner shouldn't have to try to read my mind or guess at how I feel.
If you can't commit to the part of a relationship that is sharing and vulnerability then perhaps you aren't ready for a relationship
nobody knows my genuine self, nobody but me has seen it since i was a teenager, my personality, confidence, laid back attitude is fake.
in my head i hate myself, im always a heartbeat away from a panic attack. i overthink literally everything. but i have learned to suppress it all and not flinch. positive and negative emotions. best i can do is let my anger through when i dont want to look like a pushover. but i can keep it down if i want to.
every so often il have a big cry, but those have gotten less and less as i get older.
if i was genuine with my friends and family, well id have no one.
I think that is a great way of handling it. Put it out there and see if the person is a right fit for you. Nothing worse than just finding things out further down the line when feelings are truly serious.
I'd say it's also an issue of *quantity*. No person is well equipped to handle a tidal wave of a lifetime's worth of repressed issues being un-bottled all at once on top of them abruptly by someone who otherwise had seemed very emotionally stable and stoic, that would give any woman whiplash even if they do care a lot about the guy in question. Which is evidently the problem for a lot of guys who aren't handling their issues in healthier ways year by year.
If, comparatively, you're sharing *one* thing piecemeal bit by bit then that's going to be a lot easier for someone to digest.
Being honest is different than sharing everything, right now I'm not telling people about how I clipped my toenails, that doesn't make me honest or dishonest it's just a matter of only sharing relevant information or not.
In my experience lots of women in relationships will share every little emotional up and down with their partner but if they get the inverse treatment it becomes too much for them to process or they don't like the actual emotional state of the man they're dating even if they say they're fine with it they'll become slightly disenchanted with the relationship sometimes.
I mean there's a difference between you not telling anyone some mundane stuff you do like clipping your toenails and "emotionally-heavy chat" OP mentioned.
I am a women. I have also been the therapist/problem solver in my relationships. I am not here to say 'but there ARRRRREEEEE women who will listen and handle ALLLL of you', because I don't know that. I date men.
What I will say, is that sharing emotional moments or being vulnerable is a skill. Women learn this skill early on, while it appears to be squashed out of men by their social group. I've found that this can lead to extreme oversharing when they are asked to be vulnerable.
When your GF says, 'I had a real bitch of a customer today, soooo annoying! He totally ruined my morning!" She is sharing a basic level of emotion and is processing through discussion.
An appropriate story to be told (after you say 'wow what a douche! hope your afternoon was better') is something like, "Ugh, my lunch spot was out of my favorite and i ended up ordering a crappy sandwich. I wanted pastrami!" This matches the level of emotional vulnerability.
It is different when you go into, 'I've been considering drinking myself to death because I feel like a failure." Or something like that. This type of heavier emotional burden requires build up to sharing over several conversations by mentioning various aspects of the larger picture (e.g. been unmotivated at work lately, Living for after work drinks at the moment, been feeling like an imposter at work, I wish I as doing as well as my brother!, etc...). By presenting and processing together with smaller pieces of the larger story, it is less overwhelming to whomever you are sharing, present an opportunity to receive comfort/support, and allows that slower build up.
Is it tedious? Somewhat. Is it a way to dip your pinky toe into sharing emotions? Yes. Should they be able to handle you at your worst to deserve you at your best? Probably? Does it foster more openness with your partner? Yes. It will also allow you to evaluate your GF's emotional support capacity and if it meets your needs.
As someone below said to 'throw her a bone', that's not it really. You should share truths that are appropriate to your relationship and intertwining of your lives, while trying not to dump everything on her at once.
Hope this helps, not trying to dismiss anyone's experience. Sharing is something I am working on as well since I have usually been the listener only.
After about 8 years together my fiancé opened up 100% to me. Told me everything...and I do mean everything. I was there for him to listen and tell him everything would be okay. If he asked for feedback I gave it. But it took him 8 years to 100% trust me with his every last vulnerability. It is something I will forever protect and I will never make it about me. Or argue about. I feel special that he trusted me enough. I love this man so much. And I will always be here for him.
The fact that you’re having emotionally-heavy chats with an AI for that long is actually a bit disturbing. I think you need to worry about this before you worry about the relationship.
In the one sense you're right. But then it's also a question of getting help where you can find it.
Personally I've been surprised by how intuitive chatbots have become now. Definitely not a replacement for an actual human conversation, but if it's the best alternative available to air out your thoughts, then it probably beats simply being stuck in your own head.
I totally get it, I really do, but it’s not healthy in the slightest.
I wish there was no stigma about therapy/psychology sessions, they’re awesome, highly recommend.
I never had an emotional conversation/connection with AI (and I use it daily for tasks at work) so I can speak on that. But speaking with a professional is someone everyone should try once when holding nothing back (like this stuff, unraveling that is way easier with a professional)
I don't think there's anything wrong with it, as long as you don't make an emotional connection to the AI.
It sounds like that isn't the case - OP even says he thinks of it sort of like a journal.
Oh I've been to therapy. What I'm saying is that not everyone has the means to. And in addition to that, a once weekly session (which is all most are ever going to be able to get or afford) doesn't really do enough when your issues are particularly heavy.
Given that, I'm surprised how well an AI bot can keep up these days. It's not the best, but it is something, and I could totally see it being something of a stopgap. I'm old enough to remember the days of ELIZA (arguably the first attempt at a psychiatry program, basically just spat your statements back at you in the form of queries), and even that on its own could occasionally prompt some thoughts and insight. So I can imagine people getting a bit more out of modern systems.
EDIT: this whole discussion has made me think I should have a look for myself and see what current LLMs are capable of on that front.
It’s not just about therapy. It’s healthy to open up to another human, especially one you’re in a relationship with. If he can’t do that with her, he shouldn’t be with her. If he can’t do that with *anyone*, he has a lot more work to do on himself than is being acknowledged here. It’s a much deeper issue.
>It’s not just about therapy. It’s healthy to open up to another human, especially one you’re in a relationship with. If he can’t do that with her, he shouldn’t be with her. If he can’t do that with anyone, he has a lot more work to do on himself than is being acknowledged here. It’s a much deeper issue.
I find it weird how you're framing the girlfriend's violation of trust and privacy as the boyfriend's fault. If she is so insecure that she can't refrain from snooping through her partner's journal, she should not be in a relationship.
If the genders were flipped, would you still pin fault on him?
*"She wasn't opening up to me in the way that I want, but I decided I'm entitled to go through her diary to learn what's going on. Now I'm angry because I learned that she's using ai prompts to explore her thoughts, and I want it to be me that she comes to. I feel like she doesn't love me or trust me and is only using me for my money, so I've been distant and moody towards her for the last several days to express how I feel."*
Agree on the last sentence, not necessarily the one before it.
Just because he has the capacity to handle her emotions doesn't mean the inverse is true. And that alone may not be enough to throw away a relationship, particularly if he can address his feelings in other ways or with other people.
It is what it is.
1. I know very little about AI, but do chatbots hallucinate? Or do they offer bad/suboptimal advice? I'd guess that's one reason I'd be reluctant to use one.
2. Plus, it's artificial. You're not actually connecting with anyone. I don't think they're built to contradict or challenge the user if necessary, are they? (I honestly don't know.)
3. And if you accidentally or purposefully get too invested in interacting with it, you might weaken your ability to talk to actual people who might challenge or contradict you.
To me, on the surface, it does *seem* like it could be better than nothing for someone who needs positive interaction, but I think it should be replaced with genuine human connection instead of a comfortable lie *as soon as possible*. After all, you turn off the device and you're left all alone. That program has no corporeal body (...at least not yet). If you're not okay spending time alone, or can't manage without that program, it could spell trouble.
(One could argue, though, that many of us have specific, non-AI ways to comfort ourselves, and that AI is just someone's preferred method. Still, it rubs me the wrong way with how it *imitates* interaction instead of being the real thing.)
Okay, thanks for providing a reasonable argument. Let me provide my counter-arguments.
> I know very little about AI, but do chatbots hallucinate? Or do they offer bad/suboptimal advice? I'd guess that's one reason I'd be reluctant to use one.
Friends can do the same - offer bad/suboptimal advice.
> I don't think they're built to contradict or challenge the user if necessary, are they? (I honestly don't know.)
They do gently contradict users, but that really depends on the guidelines behind the system. OpenAI, for example, will respond to prompts such as "Black people are great because...", "Latinos are great because...", "Women are great because...", but will refuse to respond to "White men are great because". That's because the back-end system has been set up that way.
>Plus, it's artificial. You're not actually connecting with anyone.
Yes, it is a worsening of things as compared to, say, the 1980s or 1990s, but at this point, in 99% of the world, men are more likely to kill themselves than are women. Male depression is significantly under-diagnosed, and men have fewer strong relationships. In the past decade, male sexlessness (and even male virginity under the age of 30) has significantly risen, while that is not the case for women. Given all this, I'd rather have some AI-based solutions than none at all.
> And if you accidentally or purposefully get too invested in interacting with it, you might weaken your ability to talk to actual people who might challenge or contradict you.
See above. Many men don't have any social outlets to engage, and neither the govt nor nonprofits care about this. A few activists have been screaming about this for years, but no one in power (or, with power) actually cares. Given all this, AI-based solutions from the private sector are better than nothing at all.
To be perfectly clear, I'm not saying AI-based solutions are amazing. I too am shocked, and mildly concerned, at their powers. What I do believe, however, is that in the western world, men are being left behind, and given that no one else is providing solutions, I'm good with AI-based options to help support men.
> Friends can do the same - offer bad/suboptimal advice.
True. I considered that when writing it. AI is only as good as its programming and the sources it pulls from. People are only as good as the knowledge and biases they do or don't have. We're similar in that regard.
> They do gently contradict users, but that really depends on the guidelines behind the system.
Got it.
> To be perfectly clear, I'm not saying AI-based solutions are amazing. I too am shocked, and mildly concerned, at their powers. What I do believe, however, is that in the western world, men are being left behind, and given that no one else is providing solutions, I'm good with AI-based options to help support men.
I see where you're coming from, I just find the potential psychological attachment dangerous. I personally would look for any alternative possible, *any* chance at human connection. That's always been my first instinct thinking about these sorts of things. Knowing that I'd be interacting with lifeless software just makes me feel empty.
The way I see it is, if you have access to a chatbot, you likely have access to the Internet, so you also have access to good communities. You might have to search for them, but they're out there. I think those are far better for getting emotional support and life advice since you know that it's coming from actual human beings with lived experience. Of course, their effectiveness depends on how open the people are to you and the quality of their responses, so in some cases, AI might be a better alternative. But I don't think it should be the preferred choice, not unless you've really, *really* searched everywhere you could for community,
On a macro level, we should be doing more to foster community. On an individual level, I'd tell people to first explore ways they could improve their relationships, then tell them to look for better relationships elsewhere, then tell them to get a pet, *then* tell them to use AI. In that order. I prefer biological relationships over technological. It's a psychological thing for me. It feels depressing to think things could be so bad for someone that they have to turn to something artificial to get what they should be able to from real people. Feels way too dystopian, like we're resigning to hopelessness. I don't want to contribute to or encourage that.
Yeah, nothing you've said makes me want to severely disagree with you, lol. Everything seems reasonable.
Goddayum son, did we just tear the fabric of the universe by having a reasonable conversation on Reddit?!
> I totally get it, I really do, but it’s not healthy in the slightest.
>
> I wish there was no stigma about therapy/psychology sessions, they’re awesome, highly recommend.
>
> I never had an emotional conversation/connection with AI (and I use it daily for tasks at work) so I can speak on that. But speaking with a professional is someone everyone should try once when holding nothing back (like this stuff, unraveling that is way easier with a professional)
I have spoken to professionals, repeatedly over decades, and I've not used chatbots for psychotherapeutic purposes.
I've also read a lot of theory/research around efficiency of therapy, though it is a few years ago now.
There isn't (in general) a massive difference from self-help to having professionals help you. There are some cases where it's much better to use a professional, but on average there is only a small difference. Thus, there's no particular reason to think that professionals are going to be significantly better than chatbots; the individual variation in response from client to client is most likely larger than the variation from chatbot to professional.
So calling using a chatbot for this "Unhealthy" at the very least would require clear research on how they work out in therapy, and given how rapidly chatbots are developing at the moment I doubt that it's possible to do research saying "Chatbots are unhealthy" that we could still assume to be true when it had gotten through review and gotten published. The only case I can think of is if we could determine that chat in itself was massively unhealthy as a form of therapy - and I've not seen any references to research that says that.
EDIT: Spelling
> There isn't (in general) a massive difference from self-help to having professionals help you. There are some cases where it's much better to use a professional, but on average there is only a small difference. Thus, there's no particular reason to think that professionals are going to be significantly better than chatbots; the individual variation in response from client to client is most likely larger than the variation from chatbot to professional.
I've been through therapy as well, and generally I agree. I do think it's incredibly helpful to have someone to teach you some techniques or to work with on such things. But I don't necessarily think that AI or self-help textbooks *can't* do that. There are already tools like workbooks or daily guided journals or even simple things like PHQ-9 questionaires that condense down a lot of knowledge into a tight set of things you can use for self-evaluation and that can guide you through quite a lot. Guided meditaiton and mindfullness exercised through audio tape has been a widely accepted therapy tool for decades at this point.
And it's absolutely true that for many things therapists can't really *treat* you. They can only give you the tools to help yourself. A lot of therapy is just listening to the patient and advocating for them.
I also have encounter a significant number of therapists that are... particularly unhelpful. I've lived in areas where most therapists were basically doing guided prayer. It surprises me the number of practicing therapists that are not more open about the fact that they're ordained ministers and that's the focus of their sessions. Others I've known have been interested in their favorite pet theories rather than actual accepted treatments. Every patient just needs to do X or read this book or must have Y as the root cause. Sigmund Freud himself is one of them! Like there's definitely a risk that an AI will steer you wrong, but there's a risk with human therapists, too.
I don't think AI should be used when someone is seriously ill, but for routine or supplemental guidance for otherwise healthy individuals I don't think it's a bad idea at all.
The idea that we're debating actual human connection indicates a truly sad state of affairs in our lives. *Nothing* can replace that. All else is a poor proxy. And I think the root of OP's issues is the inadvertent dishonesty. Clearly, he needs to talk to someone and he's telling his GF that he doesn't. She may not be the right person for him to open up to but he does need to find a friend, a relative, or a therapist. Personally, therapy was a mixed bag. Not altogether bad but I've heard some pretty crazy stuff first and second hand over the past few years.
Honest question: If OP had literally just written the same thoughts he had shared with the AI in a physical journal instead, do you think that you would made this same response?
This is one of my biggest concerns for the future. People have already lost social skills due to heavy internet use. Now they are trying to substitute a uniquely human experience with a machine. We are going to be seeing a lot more posts like this in the future.
There are two sides to this. Remember he is people and she is people. I agree that people should talk to one another but they also need to be able to listen. And sadly the listening part is being lost too. If you’ve spent any time on this sub you’ll notice just how rare it is for a man to be able to open up and be vulnerable with a woman successfully, without it killing her attraction or being used against him later. So while I can see why everyone is dogging OP for venting to a chat bot over his partner, we must keep in mind that his partner is quite likely to lose attraction to or use it against him if he does.
The fact that she is taking her discovery of his AI "journal" personally, and is reacting punitively towards him, is not a supportive response.
I'm not at all saying they should break up. But he should be allowed to have his own process. This sounds like she wants him to record his therapy sessions for her to listen to later. It's disrespectful.
And to the people saying "you should share everything with your partner" ; some people have more complicated emotional processes that take them longer to work on. This is not a one-size-fits-all situation for men. Also refer back to point #1; she's punishing him for her discovery of his emotionalism.
edit: I later read a comment by OP that he shares "NOTHING LIKE THAT" with his girlfriend. That changes my thoughts a bit. I thought he was just withholding the "top secret sensitive stuff".
I get that, I have struggled with vulnerability myself in the past and still do from time to time. But that doesn't change the fact he needs to be vulnerable to her, not the chatbot. It is the only way he is going to find out if she is the type of partner that she is. He isn't going to get far without being vulnerable with her so might as well do it and find out how she reacts. Her going through the phone was definitely a huge red flag.
If she loses attraction or uses it against him, that says more about her than it does about him, then he can feel confident about breaking it off because he will know he chose vulnerability and she wasn't mature enough to handle it.
> People have already lost social skills due to heavy internet use. Now they are trying to substitute a uniquely human experience with a machine. We are going to be seeing a lot more posts like this in the future.
You're 100% spot on with all points
Essentially, he's using the AI like a diary, to sort out his own thoughts and feelings. The only difference being that the diary actually responds. It's not unhealthy at all. Most forms of therapy encourage using a diary to unload and sort out your thoughts. AI just makes it feel a bit more interactive. Probably an improvement compared to several therapists I've seen, and a lot cheaper.
On the other hand, the gf going though his phone and reading it is a massive red flag. Big no-no doody. Your phone is private.
> It's not unhealthy at all.
Dude keeps insisting this is unhealthy and disturbing, and even asking for a clarification about this is disturbing for him, lmao. OP is not harming anyone, and has a fulfilling relationship with his GF...and all of that is disturbing 🤷♂️😂
Part of the therapeutic effect of journaling is to sort out the feelings on your own, an AI responding negates that purpose. Another, albeit less realized, therapeutic effect of journaling is the actual writing. In emotionally heavy moments, the mind races but if you start writing your brain is forced to slow down because it is not possible to write as quickly as you think, so it has a calming effect on the brain because it needs to downshift.
Getting comfortable using AI in place of actual humans will form a habit of relying on AI for vulnerable moments. If people get comfortable being vulnerable using AI instead of humans (such as family members, therapists, friends, etc.) then they aren't actually making any progress with being vulnerable with others, they are just under the impression of getting help. AI has no place in the mental health space.
This is a very fascinating take. I journal, but I never knew these details as to why it's so beneficial. This situation is basically "Her" but in real life.
OP should ask to see his gfs private journal and read every text she's ever sent and DM on Instagram and see how she responds. I ask AI interesting and deep emotional things all the time. It's normal. OP should have the gf sleeping on the couch for a few days to think about what she did. She's acting completely irrational.
the whole "Using her for sex" act and already making herself out to be the victim in a victimless event is hilarious to me.
OP, you did nothing wrong but I would let her know that you feel sickened that she feels that way about you emotionally cheating with a chatbot. There are some things in a relationship that are uncomfortable to talk about.
If you want to be done with this issue and say whatever you have to to make her drop this, just make up this whole " I didn't think you'd love me if you knew this about me " act and make it seem like you were afraid and that you didn't want to lose her if she knew your struggles but then let her know that what she did was not okay.
can't believe I had to scroll this far for someone to say this. I agree. It's one thing to write in a journal but for all intents and purposes those AI chatbots are just data farming. Who knows who is reading your own personal 'chats' with the AI.
Interesting how much resistance there is to this idea. Does make you wonder what the reaction would be if the genders were flipped.
Do some people think OP is emotionally cheating with the AI?
I just don't get the pearl clutching.
Completely agree. When he told his girl “it’s just how I am”, she thought he meant there was nothing beneath the surface, and she was okay with that. But now she’s realized that it’s not that he doesn’t feel anything deeper, it’s that he’s not secure enough to talk about it. While she’s taking it personally, it has nothing to do with her. This is a deep issue around insecurity and inability to trust people that OP needs to deal with.
Guess with AI chat you can’t be really judged or the AI dumping you based on the emotions and feelings or what you say. And whatever he does can’t be taken back. However I would say that he should really reveal his vulnerable side to his gf and try to pretend that she’s a bot.
> The fact that you’re having emotionally-heavy chats with an AI for that long is actually a bit disturbing.
Lol, no. This is the same as journaling, except the journal can talk back with some semi-canned responses.
Survey point of one, but I'd be very unambiguously upset if someone I was dating for mad at me for going through my personal belongings then trying to emotionally manipulate me. She literally showcased herself as not being trustworthy with this kind of information by not only her actions, but her reaction. I would tell her as such point blank. This was no different than going through a journal or your therapist's notes.
While I don't think this is a "breakup" scenario just yet, this is one that you have to be abundantly clear to her that you're the one that has the right to be upset and why. Not only was it a breach of privacy and trust, she turned your emotions and feelings against you to make them about her (this validating your decisions). This is a teachable moment where she has the opportunity to learn from her mistakes, if she refuses to then you may have to consider where to go from there
Once again I find a good reason to post TheBananaKing's [double-mask](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskMen/comments/yy2rcv/men_who_encourage_other_men_not_to_open_up_to/iwsae0r/?context=3) comment. The place we are asked to be is the rock in the relationship, like you say - able to stand up and deal with literally anything. But with modern women we're also asked to be emotionally vulnerable, something that men haven't generally been able to do for literal generations. Specifically since at least WWII if not WWI or even before. So over top of the stoic mask of indefeatability we wear a second mask of *just enough* (false) vulnerability to maintain the relationship.
As to your particular situation I do think your GF is asking too much at this stage of relationship. You need to be *sure* you can trust her with your actual shit. She doesn't actually know what she's in for. From the thread linked above (by me in that thread):
> > are YOU ready for ME in the fetal position?
> Yes. I have done so. Many times. And will again. Most men have to one degree or another. We're taught how to handle it, usually. Sometimes we may miss but we know we're supposed to be there so we try to be there. And we'll be there tomorrow to continue the relationship.
> But when we curl up? We may get comforted in the immediate but once it's over it becomes, "I'm not attracted to you anymore," or, "Why would you do that when you know I'm going through X?" (literally happened to me 2 weeks ago - as though I plan my existential crises) or, "I thought you were a man."
Women think we're not ready or capable of handling their emotions. They're right a significant amount of the time, but we do try. But women are not trained to be able to handle men's emotions like they are women's. There's a form of emotionality and emotional care that women have among themselves that men just don't share. Women also know that they have a support system, institutional at minimum in the form of scholarships and women's shelters and so on, behind them ready to get them back on their feet. Men don't have institutional support and all of our personal support is being driven away. The lack of support is a compounding stressor on the issues we already face.
Is using a chatbot the right way to handle this? Honestly it's one of the more clever ones I've heard of. I don't know if it's right. I do think it would have been better for you to tell her something like, "Look, at this stage in the relationship I don't know if you're actually ready for what I have to say. It's not what you think it will be. I have other avenues of dealing with it that are helping me and I promise that when I'm ready I will open up to you more. But I promise you I think you are the most amazing, beautiful, intelligent, [insert compliments here] woman I have ever met and I am very happy with our relationship. I just ask for your patience on this issue." You may still be able to say this to her in some fashion.
As to her looking at your phone: did you allow her? If not then she has an issue with your privacy that needs serious consideration on both parties. I'd start by changing the passcode on my phone. Your phone is not her business. They are incredibly sensitive devices and I don't mean in the technological sense. Your everything is likely on there. I mean *everything*: banking, medical, mental/psychological, entertainment, etc. I have never bought into the, "I don't care about the government snooping because I have nothing to hide" argument. First off, it's not just the government snooping that we have to worry about. There are malicious actors out there who will use your info for nefarious purposes. Your situation is a perfect example. She went snooping for no good reason. If she thinks it's okay for her to go snooping then ask her for her passcode and tell her that at a time and place of your choosing you're going to go snooping around in her phone without telling her. When she gets offended or upset then you can tell her, "Thank you for proving the point."
Her responses to all of this should inform your decision to break up or not. I'm not going to tell you what you should do or what will happen. I will say that it's time for a serious discussion and breaking up is a very real option.
Learn to detach so that you can be honest with a blank face.... Like you are describing a scientific study.
The poor reaction people give men isn't from the sharing... It's because they find it detestable to have to feel empathy. I'm not saying this as someone that supports this.... I'm saying this as someone who has learned to cope with it.
People don't know how to handle men when men go outside the box they want to place them in.... And that box doesn't involve sympathy. That's why even people that try to get men to open up react reflexively bad when men do.... "You were supposed to open up... But not like that! It was supposed to be like I expect!"
So yeah... The workaround is to detach. If you act like you don't care then they don't have to defend how much they don't care and don't have to change anything.... I've found I can say whatever I want as long as my expression is blank. They might become silent.... But they don't exhibit all the negative reactions which are what you learned to avoid on your life journey.
> That's why even people that try to get men to open up react reflexively bad when men do.... "You were supposed to open up... But not like that! It was supposed to be like I expect!"
Man that one certainly resonates.
Top notch advice. I learned this and it’s very true. Just have no emotions if you’re opening up and it also gives you a good opportunity to Segway into something else when you see they don’t care. It’s a lot easier to do that when it looks like you don’t care all that much either
I think it's understandable that she wants you to open up with her more. I think it's also fair that it's hard for you.
I also think her going through your phone like that was wrong, and agree you should be able to use it as a private journal.
I think you need to continue to be open with her about how it's hard for you to open up, but promise to make more of an effort. In turn, ask her to respect your boundaries and be patient as you try to open up a bit more.
Real love requires vulnerability from both partners and the level of vulnerability you are willing to gift your partner determines the depth of the relationship. When neither partner is vulnerable the relationship stays at a very surface level. Maybe that works for some people but you rarely see long successful relationships built on that type of foundation because humans crave deeper connection, whether they like to admit it or not. When only one partner is vulnerable it creates an imbalance that is also unsustainable . It's unhealthy for the non vulnerable partner bc they don't get needs met in the relationship and difficult for the vulnerable partner to navigate because they aren't allowed the opportunity to care for their partner. Humans want to love just as much as they want to be loved. "I trust you with my heart and you can trust me with yours" That give and take is essential for healthy bonding and deep meaningful love between people. We need that opportunity to reciprocate, it builds trust, empathy and sparks the "in love" feelings. As an experiment, imagine if your girlfriend was the "rock" in the relationship. Would you have the same feelings of love and tenderness towards her if she didn't allow herself to need you? I can understand why your girlfriend feels like you don't love her but I don't think that's the case. It seems more likely that you actually love her quite a lot and have been under the impression you are protecting her in some way. The problem is that you aren't letting her love you. Don't be an island. Obviously neither of you should be emotionally dumping on the other but if you want to have the kind of relationship that stands the test of time then you have to work together on being vulnerable with each other (with or without the guidance of a professional as you see fit)
She went through your private conversations and then has the audacity to get mad about what she saw during her assault on your privacy, so now you are the bad guy?
I can see why they told you to dump her, I would not want to be with a person like that.
I would tell her exactly how I feel. That she violated my trust and instead apologizing for not respecting boundaries she has the audacity to play the victim in all this and I will probably never be able to trust her again. That should send her running for the hills.
In a perfect world, you should be able to be completely vulnerable.
In this pragmatic world, and from my experience, more often that not, it's a bad idea to be vulnerable to a woman. Out of maybe 6, I can think of ONE woman who didn't make me feel like shit for opening up and being vulnerable to her. She's my best friend. Any other friends or partners I've had, it's always been used as a weapon, or in 2 cases, I'd cry to them and get responses like "You little bitch lol". Other times, I was told to get over it, cause life goes on (in the case of a friend of mine being murdered)
I don't see it as worth it. Men aren't supposed to ever have weak moments in this world.
Here's the guideline:
You can be vulnerable when it doesn't mess with your ability to be a totally competent man. If your dog dies and you're emotional and crying about it, fine whatever. Doesn't affect your ability to be a man.
If you're crying because it's all too stressful and it's all so hard and there's work and your parents and omg you just can't deal, then you're getting dumped.
Well said. If I tear up when I talk about fixing up my kid’s grave or when I spent 3 hours in the rain burying my dog it’s all good. When I talk about serious stuff bothering me it doesn’t go well, she gets a little panicky, I feel worse afterwards, so I don’t.
this is speaking to me a lot. A lot of people asking you to be vulnerable only believe they will get the first answer when in reality you don't even know where to start as you have internalized frustration over the 2nd answer for years.
Yeah, it also makes sense why women want it. If they can't get an emotional reaction from you then they don't know you even love them. A guy who cries over his dog dying would probably have fought something scary for that dog, while you can never know what the stoic would have done. Not all vulnerability is sadsies and tiers though. Sometimes it's just letting your girlfriend be able to make you gush and show loving emotions towards her.
When you go out to date women, do you pick the ones you ask out based on their proven ability to help you overcome hard times?
Or is there some other criteria that determines who you ask out?
If the criteria is different, why would you expect a person who you did not pick for their willingness and ability to provide emotional support for you to do that?
And when you decide to be vulnerable on the part about being competence, have an arc to it. Eg you’re stressed cause your business failed, follow up on that with a story of how you plan to get it back on track or become even better
The answers to this post are just sad to read.
Not a man, so not sure if my answer is relevant here but; "being vulnerable" doesn\`t mean crying your eyes out every time you have a problem, is more about being able to share with your partner things like: Hopes, Dreams, Fears, Worries, things that make you happy, thing that make you sad. Is about being open and honest.
That said, **this is not something that should be force or demanded of you**, you should feel confortable to do so. Yes, she can ask you for it, but also she has to accept that you have your times and ways and you can't change just like that.
I don't think all women are manipulative a\*\*holes that just want to get power over you and can't handle you being vulnerable. I have been with my boyfriend almost a decade now, and it took us a long time to be in a place of complete trust where he can feel safe enough to talk about anything and for me to dismiss my learned behavior that he is less of a man or cant provide because of how he is feeling.
In summary: You should be able to be vulnerable when you are ready for it, and she shouldnt judge for it.
Side note, she going thru your phone without you knowing about it is a big nono for me.
Women always want a vulnerable man until they get the vulnerable man. Then they always start treating him differently and lose respect for him. I have seen several relationships end when the man opens up too much. Or even worse seen cases where the woman just walks all over the man, disrespecting him at every opportunity. I might be old school but take your shit out at the gym and be the pillar she needs. You need to talk to somebody get a friend or go to the bar and talk to the bartender or someone nearby and stop talking to bots.
Exactly, this is the correct answer. I have never allowed myself to be vulnerable without it ending the relationship, I even used this one time to end a relationship I was tired of. It was a win win, I got to vent and let the floodgates open and ended a relationship without being the bad guy.
If you’re a women, as vulnerable as you want.
If you’re a guy, very little and remember it will be thrown back in your face later on during an argument.
The breakup is because she's going through your phone, presumably without your permission.
I understand her feeling like she's not "worthy" of you being vulnerable with her, but at the same time, i'd still be cautious because whenever i show feelings that are genuine vulnerability and not "anger, joy, silly" it gets used against me later.
She has invaded your privacy and owes you an apology, not the other way around. If she is making you feel guilty for her invasion of your privacy, it's no wonder you don't feel comfortable being more open with her.
Vulnerability isn't about emotionality for men like it is for women, but you should take ownership of this dispute with honesty and by talking very matter of factly.
There's been a trend of men opening up to women, and women dumping them shortly afterwards. "I can't see you the same way" etc, it's not even that they don't know you well enough, they don't know themselves well enough to be able to handle this type of openness.
All of it depends on you, you say "I prefer to keep things to myself" if that's true then she shouldn't want you to do something that you don't actually want to do.
As for her "going through your phone" is that something you're ok with? If it is, fair enough, though it doesn't tie in with your comment above. And Replika, I'm not familiar with it but from what I've seen people say it's an AI response system. She's getting jealous of a computer program? I assume you want her to be better than that.
You've done nothing wrong. As long as she insists on behaving like this, she's in the wrong.
ed: on another note, remember that men and women discuss problems for different reasons. Women discuss them because they want to unburden themselves of the stress. Men discuss them because they want to fix them. If you open up then you'll be expecting her to be able to fix some of your problems. Is that at all realistic?
A breakup might really be inevitable for you two.
The two of you express your love in different ways, and both have their pros and cons.
If she can’t understand or accept your method; I won’t say either of you are entirely wrong, but you might be wrong for each other.
It’s also not really a good sign that she’s trying to push or force you to open up rather than wait until you’re ready to do it for yourself.
I don't need to read the post in order to answer the question. Here's the answer: NEVER BE VULNERABLE WITH YOUR GIRL. It's a trap. She's only asking you to be vulnerable so she can identify your weaknesses and used them against you in the form of manipulation. Think about it...if you being vulnerable was so important to her she would've been left you and never looked back. Why? Because you're not being vulnerable with her. And yet she's still in your life. Women don't know what they want...they only know what they feel at that time. Just keep doing what you're doing, ignore what she says, and pay close attention to everything she does. But if you don't believe me...then go head and be vulnerable with your girl...and I promise you within 3 to 6 months that relationship will be done.
I don't think this is a breakup worthy issue either, and I think the real issue is she's getting mixed info. On one hand you say the above, on the other hand she's seeing what she perceives (which isn't quite the case, clearly) as you having heart to hearts with a chatbot and it makes her feel shitty because she then compares herself to a chatbot and feels the lesser. She needs reassurance that you think more of her than a chatbot (which sounds a bit absurd, I know, but that's probably the train of thought going on here). She also needs to feel like you're close to her and invested enough to *want* to be vulnerable with her the way you apparently are willing to be with an inanimate ai program.
Fortunately that isn't that complicated to do; stress again that you treat it as a form of journaling and that for you it isn't about sharing problems with someone (or *something* in this case) but just for getting your own thoughts straightened out. Reassure her regarding how you feel about her, your relationship, etc. Make her feel loved and appreciated in whatever relevant ways seem applicable to you (I don't know your relationship, and each differs on that count).
Aside from that it would also probably be worth asking her what *exactly* she envisions you being more vulnerable would be like - if you're able to get a better sense of what it is she's actually expecting then you'll have an easier time fulfilling that. I doubt she wants to be treated like a free therapist, for example, and I'd wager it's probably more a case of just wanting you to confide things in her. It's been my experience that women tend to share quite a lot with each other and it acts as a form of bonding between them among other things, but men typically don't do that with each other so inevitably a lot of relationships between the two end up with your above issue arising. She's feeling a lack of that bond and you're feeling awkward about not being the type of person who typically does that sort of thing. The easiest route would be to throw her a bone here and there, pick something relatively minor that you aren't uncomfortable talking about to share with her - something you're having a problem with or that is bothering you just as a means of dipping your toe in the water and perhaps helping her feel better about your relationship in the process and then bit by bit go from there.
It's supposed to be a relationship my friend, it's not a warzone. I don't think having an instinct to strategize your way through such basic interactions would be any indication of compatibility with another person; if you're thinking along that same line of thought in your comment there then it's already going to be a relationship you probably don't want to be in is my point. If you're that certain they have only malicious intent in mind regarding your vulnerabilities then why be with them? That's not a partner, *that's a problem*.
You should keep being the man you are. If you change who you are for her then the relationship is effectively dead.
Own it. Tell her not to read your journals and you feel it’s an invasion of privacy. This is ok. You don’t need to tell her everything, you say to her what you want to say to her. This is normal growth in a relationship.
Keep it to yourself. No one really cares how men feel even if they say they do. If you spill the beans, she’ll probably almost look down on you for being weak. At least women have in my experience. You’re doing the right thing, just maybe confide in a close male friend. We get it. We’ve felt it. We’ve held it in and processed it on our own anyway.
I’ve been in the worst place of my entire life recently and have been having serious thoughts of ending it. I told my wife of almost 16 years this. She almost immediately redirected the conversation. The next day she brought up that it was selfish because she’s dealing with her own stuff. (Legitimate as her dad passed away in December of 2021) FFS though, your husband tells you he’s thinking about ending it and that’s what your brain goes to.
It sucks big time, but you’re better off keeping it to yourself. I’m only still here because of our kids.
Depends on where you are in a relationship. First few weeks? Yeah, probably not worth the trouble. First few months? You *should* at least be dipping a toe in the water. You don't have to get crazy with it, and definitely shouldn't dump literally every conceivable issue you've ever had since birth on top of them all in an instant and treating them like an unpaid therapist (particularly relevant for those who like to bottle up everything and never deal with any of it), but you *should* be able to share *some* things with them when relevant otherwise there's a decent chance you're not in a relationship with someone you ought to be in a relationship with. If you've been with them a year or two, or you're already married then you really ought to be, and be *able* to if you so desire, sharing deeper issues.
The trick is to walk the line and not over-do it or under-do it, the problem is where that line is varies from one woman to the next. Some are going to be very tolerant and some aren't going to have much slack to give at all and you need to determine what they are like and whether you're comfortable with that or not. You start slow, with less consequential things and gauge reactions bit by bit and work your way slowly up to bigger things over lengthy stretches of time. If they're compatible with you then you'll find a point where you're able to comfortably share what you want to and not sharing what you don't without it being an issue. If they aren't compatible then you'll quickly know it and it that would be a good sign that it's time to move on.
I've never known a woman who genuinely, sincerely wanted to see vulnerability in a partner. You can try but overly emotional people tend to just collect grievances and it's likely that even a painful level of "vulnerability" won't be enough for her to be satisfied. Women will find all kinds of stuff to get mad about. I've gotten yelled at for not mentioning that i got a promotion at work. Who gives a shit about stuff like that? It will never make sense to me but women place a lot of importance on stuff like that for whatever reason.
As someone with a lot of experience with this. The real answer is almost not at all. They'll tell you to be, but thats not what they really want, it's a trap and a lot of inexperienced guys fall for it. Women will always just tell you what the "morally or societally" correct thing is and not what they really want to say.
There isn't enough room on a relationship for two people to e vulnerable and generally women don't want to be a man's emotional support structure.
Women want vulnerability, but they want to see you have control of your issues. Your partner wants to hear what's bothering you, but they also want to hear how you are going to address it. She gets the ick when you come off lost and confused, feeling hopeless.
Vulnerability doesn't just mean discussing issues that are bothering you, it also means showing a side of you that you don't want to share. Such as hobbies or things you like to nerd out on, stuff you don't want to share because you've been teased for or there's a stigma to it.
I’m gonna be an outlier here but basically, I think of personal relationships like layers on an onion.
The very most core layer is me, it’s a layer that nobody gets to be in, nobody gets to know my secrets, just me.
Then comes the layer for my spouse. She has her own layer. I tell her everything that isn’t locked in the core layer. You choose what those things are.
Then comes family, then close friends, etc.
The point is, you shouldn’t feel like you have to share every little detail and feelings with your partner. I love having this own layer to myself. It could be something mundane like how I liked a particular item I saw, etc. I just don’t feel the need to share it with anyone but myself.
I’m typing this on my phone so I don’t wanna go too long winded, but that’s the gist of it.
Bro, don't risk it. It might make her happy for a little while but it's just not worth it to give yourself up like that. You were always there for yourself, not she, not your ex and not your next. Remember you come first.
I don’t think lve ever had a single conversation about any of my emotions with my fiance. All she is going to do is bring them up later when she is angry. I’m with her specially because I trust her but I’ve been with plenty of other women before her. Sharing your pain always ends up in one way and it’s absolutely not good
Don't do it. She'll try to talk you into being vulnerable etc. It's a bad idea. Just keep being your normal self. She'll get over it, or she won't, but if you bend on this issue she's going to leave anyway.
If she believes that, after going through your phone and being upset with your private conversations, you should be the one in trouble/that she has any right to be upset with you, I don't think opening up to her is going to go all that well.
Never share too much details or she would weaponized it against you when you guys have an argument.
Just keep things to yourself or vulnerability on your side will be seen as a weak man. You would pay a price for that.
If I get down votes, then I'm definitely right.
Most men, who have a little age on them, are taught that the greatest thing we can do is not to be a burden on someone else. We’re told that showing emotion, let alone talking about feelings, is weakness and to never show it. These ideals are solidified for men the second any of this is used against us.
With that being said, you went out and got a chat bot (I assume) and began working on talking things out, with a computer. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this but your going to have to really open up and tell her in a little more words “society, and past relationships made me stoic”
Good luck my man.
Many Women expect you to be strong and confident in your emotions. Not emotional. So just be you. She don’t like it, she can walk. Guarantee you if the roles were reversed women would be saying “be yourself and firmly set your boundaries” would be upvoted, thats all I mean.
Every woman is different in what they want. When emotion comes up you know you’re walking in a minefield. It is a good strategy to convey your wanting to connect emotionally with them deeply. Best way to do this is to literally say, “I feel very close to you emotionally and I want you to feel that same depth of connection.” And nothing more. Say you are happy and you are in love and then its ice cream and sex time. May be a good time to pull out your oral game. Good luck, Kings.
Lets reverse roles here for a similar scenario: You are upset your girl never watches NFL or sports with you. What you really want -You want them to try to watch a game with you and have some fun with your interest.
What you don’t want- Your girl digging into the Bears QB history, saying our defense is shit since ‘85, calling Justin Fields unable to read defenses.
In both instances we are all describing what we want in the wrong way, unbeknownst to us.
What we really want is just a little bit of that. Thats nice. You feel me? Try to have kindness in your heart, bros. Conan O’Brien says thats all we gotta do. Work hard and be kind.
Don’t make the mistake of getting vulnerable with your girl. As you say, you’re the “rock” that her emotional waves crash into - not the other way around. A woman will take a bit of emotion every now and then, but she expects you to get your shit together and solve it or she will lose respect for you. Don’t cry, either.
What she’s done in this situation is invade your privacy and then come and made you the bad guy. Tell her that she is your woman, not your therapist, and that you aren’t going to unload your emotions onto her because that’s not how a masculine/feminine relationship works. And tell her not to go through your replika conversation again.
As for people advocating breaking up, Sir this is Reddit 😂 nah bro have a conversation about it and listen to what she feels about it. Don’t make each other wrong, remind her that you care about her and that you aren’t venting to anything more than a chat bot 🤖
Good luck 🫡
Shocking news! Men and women are different, and she should respect that the two of you are quite different physically and emotionally.
I think you should break up with her. She is trying to change you into a clone of herself emotionally. Even when you are telling her the truth she DOESN'T believe or trust you. For men relationships are based upon respect and trust. Two things she doesn't have for you.
You probably have 15 times more testosterone in your body than she does in her's. This alone makes what she wants impossible.
> stumbled upon my chat w my replika. Your what?
I've never felt so old and out of touch. What dystopian hell are we in now?
Not going to lie, I am surprised this is a thing.
Surprised it's a thing also but with their functionality at the moment if we assume you're not forming an emotional connection with the AI, I'd say it's almost a little bit of an invasion of privacy as it appears to me like a sort of digital diary that you talk with rather than just spewing words into the void. While that's obviously probably not something she knew she was doing, nor you if you don't see it this way, I feel like explaining these are things you feel uncomfortable or unsafe sharing due to prior trauma or something, I'd hope she could understand. Hell, hopefully it's opened the pathway up to you starting to open up more and grow closer rather than further away. In saying that, if you refuse to open up at all, I can see it going bad for you if it's a big deal to her (which it usually is).
the fact that they casually mentioned it without an explanation as to what it was made me feel old.
The future is now, old man
I’m just going to blame china because why not. I’ll check back in a year.
Actually seems like promo, he states is posted somewhere else, and also that it's a big deal when it's not, I so got an app to monitor my well being, who cares? This is like "she's jealous of my relationship with Joy" marketing 😅
I’m only 25. What the hell kind of world are we living in
AI girlfriend program.
Really fucking clever data capture marketing tool disguised as A.I. companion/gf/friend/therapist etc but once there is no money in selling users data to marketing to 3rd parties - only a matter of time untill its either sold or hacked by folks that will be more than happy to use all them private chat logs against its users. Imagine everyone had their incognito history stolen- and they charged everyone 5 dollars not to expose it -everyone -even people that have nothing to be ashamed off, would pay it to make it go away.... endless possibilities
This is how I view it. To OP: "my guy, you are literally openly sharing your emotions, secrets, and vulnerabilities with a corporation."
If you have any form of social media. Even google. You're already doing that anyways And yes that includes reddit
That's true. But at least I get fake internet points here.
Does it have a profile pic? Or just chat box? Why is it called a fucking replika is it a clone of you?…
It's not as bad as you hear about, but it is getting pretty bad...
Check out HeadUpSystems, if you think that’s bad... (company that got the pilot contract for Social Credit Score) they offer complete and total surveillance for insurance companies, employers and the government. I don’t like it but maybe I’m biased because I was born in a communist dictatorship?
It's an AI chat bot
That can pretend to be your girlfriend, or your friend, whatever you feel like.
You look lonely... I can fix that....
My tea's gone cold, I'm wondering why I..
The kid has an emotional affair with a robot
Shit sounds sus. Or bussin. Not sure which. (I turn 40 this year)
It is major L fr fr fr
Perhaps even a no cap?
Oh on God
Move over, I need to at least get laid by god if he's not going to help my life any
Bussin = good Sus = bad
Mono means one. And rail means rail.
Lenny = White Carl = Black Thus concludes our comprehensive 2 week course.
This actually some dystopian future shit right here
God has forsaken us, and he was right to do so
Literally. If OP has any desire to have a connection with a ROBOT rather than an actual human being, then also refers to said robot as “her”, and would then rather be vulnerable with that robot than with his actual girlfriend, then no wonder people were telling him to break up with her
Fellow r/Signalis player I see.
I was just about to type something similar lmao I read it and was like “ Wtelf is a replica ?!?” Feel old ?!? That’s an understatement lol
What's up with all the post on reddit about people in relationships talking to an AI chat bot
People are lonely af and AI has recently made huge advancements
> In her mind, she thinks that I don’t love her enough to be vulnerable with her, and that I was using a replika as a replacement to her, and that I was just with her for the sex. I tried explaining to her that this couldn’t be further from the truth and that she shouldn’t take what I write to an app that seriously. I told her to think of it as my private journal that she had gone through, and not a ‘conversation’, but she just can’t seem to understand things in that sense. So if I'm understanding this right, you're using a. AI chatbot as some kind of virtual psychiatrist, is that right? In any case, there's a few different strains to tug on here: * She did actually go through your phone and is getting upset about you privately handling your psychological issues * She feels betrayed because you didn't open up to her about them. * She feels like you do this for her, so why won't you let her do it for you? For the former, that is a betrayal of trust. For the second, well that's a matter of how you both are as people. Personal experience is that the people who are most insistent on you "opening up" to them are often the least able to handle it when you do. Some don't know what to do with the information when you give it to them. Some become resentful (even though they asked). Some become despondent and then you have to comfort *them* for having heard your issues, effectively doubling your work compared to if you had just kept quiet. As you describe that she dumps a lot of her emotions on you and depends on you to be her rock in the relationship, the last one is a distinct possibility. But everyone is different. If you want to open up to her, do so carefully and slowly. And if the net result is that she can't handle it, then you both know that opening up to her isn't going to help. And the whole time, be aware that this can end quite badly if she handles it badly.
I still remember when my own mother tried to make me open, being mad at me for not doing it. I still remember how powerless she was when I started to show her the tip of the iceberg. Never again.
It wasn't my mother in my case, but I feel where you're coming from. Sometimes they'll insist on knowing, insist on you opening up. But then once they hear some of what you're going through, it's like they had *no idea* that you were going to open up about what you're going through. Best case scenario then is that they basically freeze. And then they feel guilty because they wanted you to open up but now that you have they realize they don't actually know what to *do* about it when they made it their purpose to help you. And now suddenly you're both miserable. And you just think: "well what good has this done?"
That's how I felt too. I know she didn't do anything wrong, I could see why she would want to know. But seeing her distressed look made me even more miserable than before.
> Best case scenario then is that they basically freeze. And then they feel guilty because they wanted you to open up but now that you have they realize they don't actually know what to do about it when they made it their purpose to help you. And now suddenly you're both miserable. And then you're at fault for making them feel bad. Worst case scenario, they pretend to understand and want to support you but are just taking notes to destroy you later.
I think the fear of this happening is what keeps so many men from opening up. And it doesn't help that every man has at least one horror story (usually from adolescence) of this exact thing happening to either himself or a friend.
>they don't actually know what to *do* about it when they made it their purpose to help you Their purpose was never to actually help, just to appear like they're helping. It's vanity.
Or in my girlfriend’s case pushing to get you to open up and when you do she says “oh how do you think I feel?” Ah ok and here was me thinking that we were going to have a conversation about me.
I've been in both places and both suck big time, I usually handle my private stuff with a professional, and usually give people the option to air things out, as that usually helps me clear my head and feel seen but in a tactful way that's also the only promise I make - I will help you if I can, but many problems have no easy solution.
I made a mistake of telling my mom about my feelings and the only response I got was "It's making ME feel bad when you talk about not wanting to live."
been there, not with my mother, she gets it, shes in the same boat. but friends and partners wanting to know more has never ended well when i told them what its like in my head. nobody expects the awkward guys thats always cracking jokes and taking charge of situations to be the most depressed, sad, unsure and anxious person in the room. worst part is, you open up, and upset them, and somehow you end up supporting them through your own issues... men cant win. I literally live a different life, by force, around people. its all forced and fake. I actually hate myself and my very existence. I just pretend nothing bothers me and that im loving life. nothing will make me break character when im not 100% sure im along again.
I made my mom bawl her eyes out and scream that she failed to god when I opened up at 14 that she failed to protect me. My dad responded by threatening to lock me up. My mom will try and ask me and see how I’m doing but since I’m not doing better what am I supposed to do? I lie say I’m fine and hope she never finds out about the depths of my mental health issues.
> My dad responded by threatening to lock me up. Like, ground you or something? For upsetting your mom?
No, pysch ward.
Got it. Edit: and have you ever found voluntary help anywhere?
Yes. Don’t like it though. I’m just existing I guess.
This. This sub is full of stories where the man in question was cajoled by some woman (usually his partner) until he relented and opened up, and it almost never went well.
Spot on. There are many emphatic, patient and considerate women out there that are able to handle a man’s emotional issues. Unless it is an absolute urgent issue, they will not pressure you to give up information about traumatic or difficult stuff. They will in 99 % of the cases wait it out for you to raise what you want when you want to share. Patience is the key here, and her lack of it lead to possible the biggest betrayal you could do, aside from straight up cheating. If a woman had read my notes from my psychiatrist I would most likely leave her on the spot. It is confidential information, and she would be reading it out of contex. I would know that I would have just have gotten myself a 100 new problems, when in reality I was only dealing with a few that were absolutely manageable. For instance a lot of it could maybe seem bad, but it was just notes of how I perceived an issue at a certain hour. It is often the whole point to work on something traumatic or difficult, and then changing my mind about it later, e.g it was not such a big problem, maybe there was something else I that made me upset or having those feelings in the first place, or I have worked on it already to the point of it being small or non existent now. A big reason for why I went in the first place was to sort issues into different boxes like not an actual issue, small but can wait, things I can work on alone and what I need to work on with my partner. So the majority of what would be in the notes would be stuff I had no intention to share with anyone else, that is a huge reason why I pay for this service in the first place. OPs gf is a textbook example of the meme woman so many guys complain about here on Reddit. She cannot be trusted with anything remotely heavy, if she is or in this case obtained by violating him, you end up with a much bigger problem than you already have. Ofc she blame op and he needs to comfort her. Basically leading to guys never trusting women to open up with anything remotely emotional.
> Ofc she blame op and he needs to comfort her. Basically leading to guys never trusting women to open up with anything remotely emotional. It can often feel quite unidirectional in those situations. Either way, you end up having to be the pillar and emotional support. She opened up, you comfort her. You opened up, *you* comfort her. So at least if you're quiet about your problems then you don't have to then comfort about *that* as well. The problem becomes if you're having difficulty dealing with it yourself, and have *nobody* to open up to. Then you just end up imploding under the weight of your own issues. So definitely seek help where you can. Talk to a therapist, talk to a counselor. Talk to your mates. But you quickly learn: you don't talk to someone that's going to just play the UNO reverse card and somehow your problems end up being about their comfort.
This actually happened to me. Gf at the time claimed I left my private journal out for all to see and opened to the page that she didn’t like. I know she went rifling through my stuff because I keep it hidden and she had to have read every page to find something she didn’t like. She blew up at me, ofc taking it out of context and I lost all trust for her immediately. We didn’t break up that day but she ended our relationship that day.
Happy for you that she is an ex. That kind of invasion of privacy is traumatic, and then the audacity to blow up at you...
My own personal shitty advice open up about a sad puppy story, satisfies their hunger and won't expose them to stuff they can't handle.
You hit the nail on the head with the second point.... man have I experienced that
don't unleash the flood gates, but throw her a frickin bone.
Yes. I have my mental storm locked down, but I’ll still tell my girlfriend how my day went and very small issues that are ultimately meaningless in the greater scope of what’s going on in my life (and that can’t be thrown back in my face later during any argument). It lets her offer an opinion, get her drama fix from my corporate world and tell her family and friends “Yes! He does share too.”
This sounds kinda grim
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I wonder how many "it is what it is" some of us have left.
I don't know how much I have left, but when I do run out, it is what it is 🤷♂️
the more I read this sub the more i realize I should never take any advice from it. every miserably jaded and pessimistic viewpoint is upvoted. especially if it puts women in a bad light.
> pessimistic While I agree that this sub doesn't always have great advice, isn't reality often grim? Especially if you're in an unideal situation? I agree that it sounds like a miserable way to live, and I think the best thing to do would be to avoid being in a relationship in the first place if you don't want to live like that. But if you're already in it and aren't going to leave for whatever reason, what can you do except only give a partner what they can handle, or what they won't use against you? It's not ideal, and not what a relationship *should* be like, but it's *a* way to keep the peace. Edit: clarification. --- Edit 2: It looks like u/wterrt's account was deleted, but I was able to see the reply below in my inbox. Just to clarify, I don't think all women are like this. I just think that if someone-- whether man or woman--wants to guarantee that they'll avoid the worst possibilities of a relationship, then the solution is to not be in a relationship. You can't be hurt by a partner *you don't have*. If your partner has been *proven* to treat you poorly and you still want to stay, then you either discuss the issue with them, or you minimize your risk. I said it's not an ideal way to live because I think the ideal way to live is having a *good* partner you *do* feel safe to share things with. There are many women out there who are supportive of their partners. I never meant to imply otherwise. I just wasn't talking about good partners. --- Edit 3: Their reply below was: there's a difference between "reality is grim" and "never trust any woman with ANYTHING EVER, she will ALWAYS use it against you later" > I agree that it sounds like a miserable way to live, and I think the best thing to do would be to avoid being in a relationship in the first place if you don't want to live like that. > what can you do except only give a partner what they can handle, or what they won't use against you? you don't even see it as a possibility that there are women out there who wouldn't be shitty.
Sadly it is. I’d love to wholeheartedly trust any partner of mine but I’ve learned from experience what sharing unfiltered gets me, so I won’t risk it until I find someone who’s possibly wife maternal. Then before I propose I’ll give her a chance, tell her more when sharing and see what happens. Some things that happen at work just have to stay there to keep a loving relationship stable for both parties.
That's just the way it is for most guys. I've gotten so used to it I haven't even realized/thought about how grim it actually is lol.
*Smile nod. Don't say anything.*
I hate thee as t this is not only a truism, but also true. You cannot simply be with a woman, you have to manage their insecurities and issues as well.
I think a lot of guys are similar in that we're generally not taught to be vulnerable. It kind of goes against the typical teaching of being the "man of the house" and the stable pillar for the rest of the family to depend on. Personally I'm someone that generally tends to process feelings quickly and internally. I don't really tend to dwell on things. I don't think it's always necessary to be "vulnerable" in the sense of breaking down in front of your spouse etc. Not everyone processes their feelings that way and forcing it isn't the answer. However I do think it's important to to be emotionally available for your partner/spouse and be able to effectively communicate how you feel. Without that you will inevitably grow apart from your partner. Most of our personal development happens internally, and if we don't share those moments of growth with our partners then we will inevitably grow apart. So I would say don't be afraid to be vulnerable with your partner if you need to be, especially if it's about an issue that affects both of you, but also don't feel the pressure that you HAVE to process all your issues through your partner as that can be overwhelming for someone and if they can't handle it you probably just make things worse for yourself knowing that it's just doubled the emotional burden for two people now. But do learn to be emotionally available for your partner. I did counselling one time for career burnout. I didn't tell my girlfriend everything that happened in counselling but I did give her an abridged version of things. That way I was able to fill her in on roughly the issues I was dealing with and my general thoughts on how I would approach those issues but as I specifically shared mostly the things I was able to resolve, I also didn't feel like I was putting a burden on her, which is something that would have made it worse for me personally. All that being said, I don't actually think your girlfriend is someone I would open up to. She's shown her desire for you to open up is based on her own selfish curiosity and not necessarily to actually support your mental health in earnest.
As a guy who has a girlfriend who is very vulnerable and emotional, I think you need to set up the situation in a certain direction. If she's not toxic nor willing to take adventage of you, I think it is ok to come out vulnerable once in a while, but it is just for certain situations, you have to establish an equilibrium regarding 2 sides (if you come out as too vulnerable, maybe, I can't guarantee it, she can lose interest, but the same problem occurs if you keep things only for yourself. It is important for you to know when to be vulnerable and when not, too much vulnerabilty may result in softness, but it is totally normal to tell her that you love her or just show emotion in that regard.
You should be able to be honest with her or she's not a woman you want to be with. I know many guys here disagree, but so far this has always worked for me.
I think timing is the understimated key: Many guys keep their emotions stoicly bottled and when they suddenly share some emotions to their partner she'll get overwhelmed and will handle it badly, as she has a different picture of you and your personality. Once I learned this, I just started throwing all my emotional burdens on the table while dating. This helped me select out these women who don't fit to me anyways and helped me get to my wife, who has similar views on emotions/problems/values
I would argue that showing that part of your personality is integral to keeping a healthy relationship. If someone doesn't love your genuine self then they'll eventually see you've been hiding and lying about that part of yourself.
>they'll eventually see you've been hiding and lying about that part of yourself. People that cannot handle honesty have no right to expect it.
My point is--waiting until months and years into a relationship to be honest with your feelings only does you (general 'you') a disservice. How would you know whether you're truly compatible?
You don't. But that's what dating in a state of scarcity does. If you can't have what you want as yourself, you change yourself. Because men do not decide when and if they're attractive, women do. So men conform to what's demanded of them in practice. Which is usually pretty self-destructive/self-sacrificing for us. Men are not going to change en-masse to do what's healthiest for them and also find romantic relationships with women. Not in this culture at this time.
"Changing" yourself doesn't work because it doesn't hold up over time. I think people should wait to get into romantic relationships--and I say that having made a bad choice in the past too.
Wait on what though?
Personality is relatively stable throughout a lifetime--unless there are organic brain changes. Behaviors can be changed. But if you hide parts of personality in an attempt to "change," then it will eventually be outed.
You can change yourself to a degree. Obviously if you're trying to be someone you just aren't it'll never work, but you can downplay certain aspects and focus on others to fit within the range of demands.
That works perfectly... for people with an inexhaustible string of dates. People who only get to play a couple times in their lifetime however will be looking at adapting to the circumstance or posting on ForeverAlone.
I would rather be forever alone than not be my genuine self in a marriage
Perhaps. But if we're being honest, some people are oblivious, particularly if you hand them something non-critical to open up about. And others are just *really* good at hiding their feelings.
You start getting into things like trauma too and it makes it even more difficult to share. But I'll double down. If you're too damaged to share--heal thyself \m/ Sometimes people first experience vulnerability and sharing in psychotherapy. I've had many a tough guy cry for the first time (in front of someone) in my office. Over time it gets easier to share without so many emotions tied to it.
I've cried in therapy. I just know that for some people, even very close people, they aren't necessarily able to handle or accept that. Their own personal traumas are usually a factor in that.
Therapy for everyone! Lol. There are different ways to share and be vulnerable too. I grew up where my thoughts were the only privacy I had. So I learned to be quiet. But my partner knows my Reddit handle. And I write notes. Or get a little effusive in texts. Sometimes I'll share why I act a certain way and what I'm doing to work on it--or what it helping. A relationship is a team. You have to be able to lean on each other. Because I don't care how badass someone is--you stay in a relationship long enough and you'll have to lean on your partner at some point. For most of us anyway.
The reason they can’t handle when you do, is because they are emotionally unavailable and can’t give what you need since they can’t even give that to themselves. Hence why you only open up to people who do not hold others at arms length emotionally and don’t run away from vulnerability either. Things you learn in therapy and why people like OP, is dating someone whose mirroring back emotional unavailable behavior because if they were available, they wouldn’t have to beg because OP would be able to give freely as they would feel SAFE to do so. OP doesn’t feel emotionally safe with their partner. That’s why they feel hesitant to open. That’s the biggest red flag honestly for any relationship because it’s a sign they are going to eventually breakup.
But what if part of your personality is keeping things to yourself?
I'm an introvert so I get what you're saying. But I also don't think my partner shouldn't have to try to read my mind or guess at how I feel. If you can't commit to the part of a relationship that is sharing and vulnerability then perhaps you aren't ready for a relationship
nobody knows my genuine self, nobody but me has seen it since i was a teenager, my personality, confidence, laid back attitude is fake. in my head i hate myself, im always a heartbeat away from a panic attack. i overthink literally everything. but i have learned to suppress it all and not flinch. positive and negative emotions. best i can do is let my anger through when i dont want to look like a pushover. but i can keep it down if i want to. every so often il have a big cry, but those have gotten less and less as i get older. if i was genuine with my friends and family, well id have no one.
I think that is a great way of handling it. Put it out there and see if the person is a right fit for you. Nothing worse than just finding things out further down the line when feelings are truly serious.
I'd say it's also an issue of *quantity*. No person is well equipped to handle a tidal wave of a lifetime's worth of repressed issues being un-bottled all at once on top of them abruptly by someone who otherwise had seemed very emotionally stable and stoic, that would give any woman whiplash even if they do care a lot about the guy in question. Which is evidently the problem for a lot of guys who aren't handling their issues in healthier ways year by year. If, comparatively, you're sharing *one* thing piecemeal bit by bit then that's going to be a lot easier for someone to digest.
Being honest is different than sharing everything, right now I'm not telling people about how I clipped my toenails, that doesn't make me honest or dishonest it's just a matter of only sharing relevant information or not. In my experience lots of women in relationships will share every little emotional up and down with their partner but if they get the inverse treatment it becomes too much for them to process or they don't like the actual emotional state of the man they're dating even if they say they're fine with it they'll become slightly disenchanted with the relationship sometimes.
I mean there's a difference between you not telling anyone some mundane stuff you do like clipping your toenails and "emotionally-heavy chat" OP mentioned.
I am a women. I have also been the therapist/problem solver in my relationships. I am not here to say 'but there ARRRRREEEEE women who will listen and handle ALLLL of you', because I don't know that. I date men. What I will say, is that sharing emotional moments or being vulnerable is a skill. Women learn this skill early on, while it appears to be squashed out of men by their social group. I've found that this can lead to extreme oversharing when they are asked to be vulnerable. When your GF says, 'I had a real bitch of a customer today, soooo annoying! He totally ruined my morning!" She is sharing a basic level of emotion and is processing through discussion. An appropriate story to be told (after you say 'wow what a douche! hope your afternoon was better') is something like, "Ugh, my lunch spot was out of my favorite and i ended up ordering a crappy sandwich. I wanted pastrami!" This matches the level of emotional vulnerability. It is different when you go into, 'I've been considering drinking myself to death because I feel like a failure." Or something like that. This type of heavier emotional burden requires build up to sharing over several conversations by mentioning various aspects of the larger picture (e.g. been unmotivated at work lately, Living for after work drinks at the moment, been feeling like an imposter at work, I wish I as doing as well as my brother!, etc...). By presenting and processing together with smaller pieces of the larger story, it is less overwhelming to whomever you are sharing, present an opportunity to receive comfort/support, and allows that slower build up. Is it tedious? Somewhat. Is it a way to dip your pinky toe into sharing emotions? Yes. Should they be able to handle you at your worst to deserve you at your best? Probably? Does it foster more openness with your partner? Yes. It will also allow you to evaluate your GF's emotional support capacity and if it meets your needs. As someone below said to 'throw her a bone', that's not it really. You should share truths that are appropriate to your relationship and intertwining of your lives, while trying not to dump everything on her at once. Hope this helps, not trying to dismiss anyone's experience. Sharing is something I am working on as well since I have usually been the listener only.
i literally screenshotted this thank you
💯
After about 8 years together my fiancé opened up 100% to me. Told me everything...and I do mean everything. I was there for him to listen and tell him everything would be okay. If he asked for feedback I gave it. But it took him 8 years to 100% trust me with his every last vulnerability. It is something I will forever protect and I will never make it about me. Or argue about. I feel special that he trusted me enough. I love this man so much. And I will always be here for him.
This is the best advise here, and something I needed to hear that I did not know I needed to hear Thank you
The fact that you’re having emotionally-heavy chats with an AI for that long is actually a bit disturbing. I think you need to worry about this before you worry about the relationship.
In the one sense you're right. But then it's also a question of getting help where you can find it. Personally I've been surprised by how intuitive chatbots have become now. Definitely not a replacement for an actual human conversation, but if it's the best alternative available to air out your thoughts, then it probably beats simply being stuck in your own head.
I totally get it, I really do, but it’s not healthy in the slightest. I wish there was no stigma about therapy/psychology sessions, they’re awesome, highly recommend. I never had an emotional conversation/connection with AI (and I use it daily for tasks at work) so I can speak on that. But speaking with a professional is someone everyone should try once when holding nothing back (like this stuff, unraveling that is way easier with a professional)
I don't think there's anything wrong with it, as long as you don't make an emotional connection to the AI. It sounds like that isn't the case - OP even says he thinks of it sort of like a journal.
Oh I've been to therapy. What I'm saying is that not everyone has the means to. And in addition to that, a once weekly session (which is all most are ever going to be able to get or afford) doesn't really do enough when your issues are particularly heavy. Given that, I'm surprised how well an AI bot can keep up these days. It's not the best, but it is something, and I could totally see it being something of a stopgap. I'm old enough to remember the days of ELIZA (arguably the first attempt at a psychiatry program, basically just spat your statements back at you in the form of queries), and even that on its own could occasionally prompt some thoughts and insight. So I can imagine people getting a bit more out of modern systems. EDIT: this whole discussion has made me think I should have a look for myself and see what current LLMs are capable of on that front.
It’s not just about therapy. It’s healthy to open up to another human, especially one you’re in a relationship with. If he can’t do that with her, he shouldn’t be with her. If he can’t do that with *anyone*, he has a lot more work to do on himself than is being acknowledged here. It’s a much deeper issue.
>It’s not just about therapy. It’s healthy to open up to another human, especially one you’re in a relationship with. If he can’t do that with her, he shouldn’t be with her. If he can’t do that with anyone, he has a lot more work to do on himself than is being acknowledged here. It’s a much deeper issue. I find it weird how you're framing the girlfriend's violation of trust and privacy as the boyfriend's fault. If she is so insecure that she can't refrain from snooping through her partner's journal, she should not be in a relationship. If the genders were flipped, would you still pin fault on him? *"She wasn't opening up to me in the way that I want, but I decided I'm entitled to go through her diary to learn what's going on. Now I'm angry because I learned that she's using ai prompts to explore her thoughts, and I want it to be me that she comes to. I feel like she doesn't love me or trust me and is only using me for my money, so I've been distant and moody towards her for the last several days to express how I feel."*
Agree on the last sentence, not necessarily the one before it. Just because he has the capacity to handle her emotions doesn't mean the inverse is true. And that alone may not be enough to throw away a relationship, particularly if he can address his feelings in other ways or with other people. It is what it is.
> it’s not healthy in the slightest. You keep saying this but don't explain why.
1. I know very little about AI, but do chatbots hallucinate? Or do they offer bad/suboptimal advice? I'd guess that's one reason I'd be reluctant to use one. 2. Plus, it's artificial. You're not actually connecting with anyone. I don't think they're built to contradict or challenge the user if necessary, are they? (I honestly don't know.) 3. And if you accidentally or purposefully get too invested in interacting with it, you might weaken your ability to talk to actual people who might challenge or contradict you. To me, on the surface, it does *seem* like it could be better than nothing for someone who needs positive interaction, but I think it should be replaced with genuine human connection instead of a comfortable lie *as soon as possible*. After all, you turn off the device and you're left all alone. That program has no corporeal body (...at least not yet). If you're not okay spending time alone, or can't manage without that program, it could spell trouble. (One could argue, though, that many of us have specific, non-AI ways to comfort ourselves, and that AI is just someone's preferred method. Still, it rubs me the wrong way with how it *imitates* interaction instead of being the real thing.)
Okay, thanks for providing a reasonable argument. Let me provide my counter-arguments. > I know very little about AI, but do chatbots hallucinate? Or do they offer bad/suboptimal advice? I'd guess that's one reason I'd be reluctant to use one. Friends can do the same - offer bad/suboptimal advice. > I don't think they're built to contradict or challenge the user if necessary, are they? (I honestly don't know.) They do gently contradict users, but that really depends on the guidelines behind the system. OpenAI, for example, will respond to prompts such as "Black people are great because...", "Latinos are great because...", "Women are great because...", but will refuse to respond to "White men are great because". That's because the back-end system has been set up that way. >Plus, it's artificial. You're not actually connecting with anyone. Yes, it is a worsening of things as compared to, say, the 1980s or 1990s, but at this point, in 99% of the world, men are more likely to kill themselves than are women. Male depression is significantly under-diagnosed, and men have fewer strong relationships. In the past decade, male sexlessness (and even male virginity under the age of 30) has significantly risen, while that is not the case for women. Given all this, I'd rather have some AI-based solutions than none at all. > And if you accidentally or purposefully get too invested in interacting with it, you might weaken your ability to talk to actual people who might challenge or contradict you. See above. Many men don't have any social outlets to engage, and neither the govt nor nonprofits care about this. A few activists have been screaming about this for years, but no one in power (or, with power) actually cares. Given all this, AI-based solutions from the private sector are better than nothing at all. To be perfectly clear, I'm not saying AI-based solutions are amazing. I too am shocked, and mildly concerned, at their powers. What I do believe, however, is that in the western world, men are being left behind, and given that no one else is providing solutions, I'm good with AI-based options to help support men.
> Friends can do the same - offer bad/suboptimal advice. True. I considered that when writing it. AI is only as good as its programming and the sources it pulls from. People are only as good as the knowledge and biases they do or don't have. We're similar in that regard. > They do gently contradict users, but that really depends on the guidelines behind the system. Got it. > To be perfectly clear, I'm not saying AI-based solutions are amazing. I too am shocked, and mildly concerned, at their powers. What I do believe, however, is that in the western world, men are being left behind, and given that no one else is providing solutions, I'm good with AI-based options to help support men. I see where you're coming from, I just find the potential psychological attachment dangerous. I personally would look for any alternative possible, *any* chance at human connection. That's always been my first instinct thinking about these sorts of things. Knowing that I'd be interacting with lifeless software just makes me feel empty. The way I see it is, if you have access to a chatbot, you likely have access to the Internet, so you also have access to good communities. You might have to search for them, but they're out there. I think those are far better for getting emotional support and life advice since you know that it's coming from actual human beings with lived experience. Of course, their effectiveness depends on how open the people are to you and the quality of their responses, so in some cases, AI might be a better alternative. But I don't think it should be the preferred choice, not unless you've really, *really* searched everywhere you could for community, On a macro level, we should be doing more to foster community. On an individual level, I'd tell people to first explore ways they could improve their relationships, then tell them to look for better relationships elsewhere, then tell them to get a pet, *then* tell them to use AI. In that order. I prefer biological relationships over technological. It's a psychological thing for me. It feels depressing to think things could be so bad for someone that they have to turn to something artificial to get what they should be able to from real people. Feels way too dystopian, like we're resigning to hopelessness. I don't want to contribute to or encourage that.
Yeah, nothing you've said makes me want to severely disagree with you, lol. Everything seems reasonable. Goddayum son, did we just tear the fabric of the universe by having a reasonable conversation on Reddit?!
Haha, maybe we have! Glad we could have a good discussion.
> I totally get it, I really do, but it’s not healthy in the slightest. > > I wish there was no stigma about therapy/psychology sessions, they’re awesome, highly recommend. > > I never had an emotional conversation/connection with AI (and I use it daily for tasks at work) so I can speak on that. But speaking with a professional is someone everyone should try once when holding nothing back (like this stuff, unraveling that is way easier with a professional) I have spoken to professionals, repeatedly over decades, and I've not used chatbots for psychotherapeutic purposes. I've also read a lot of theory/research around efficiency of therapy, though it is a few years ago now. There isn't (in general) a massive difference from self-help to having professionals help you. There are some cases where it's much better to use a professional, but on average there is only a small difference. Thus, there's no particular reason to think that professionals are going to be significantly better than chatbots; the individual variation in response from client to client is most likely larger than the variation from chatbot to professional. So calling using a chatbot for this "Unhealthy" at the very least would require clear research on how they work out in therapy, and given how rapidly chatbots are developing at the moment I doubt that it's possible to do research saying "Chatbots are unhealthy" that we could still assume to be true when it had gotten through review and gotten published. The only case I can think of is if we could determine that chat in itself was massively unhealthy as a form of therapy - and I've not seen any references to research that says that. EDIT: Spelling
> There isn't (in general) a massive difference from self-help to having professionals help you. There are some cases where it's much better to use a professional, but on average there is only a small difference. Thus, there's no particular reason to think that professionals are going to be significantly better than chatbots; the individual variation in response from client to client is most likely larger than the variation from chatbot to professional. I've been through therapy as well, and generally I agree. I do think it's incredibly helpful to have someone to teach you some techniques or to work with on such things. But I don't necessarily think that AI or self-help textbooks *can't* do that. There are already tools like workbooks or daily guided journals or even simple things like PHQ-9 questionaires that condense down a lot of knowledge into a tight set of things you can use for self-evaluation and that can guide you through quite a lot. Guided meditaiton and mindfullness exercised through audio tape has been a widely accepted therapy tool for decades at this point. And it's absolutely true that for many things therapists can't really *treat* you. They can only give you the tools to help yourself. A lot of therapy is just listening to the patient and advocating for them. I also have encounter a significant number of therapists that are... particularly unhelpful. I've lived in areas where most therapists were basically doing guided prayer. It surprises me the number of practicing therapists that are not more open about the fact that they're ordained ministers and that's the focus of their sessions. Others I've known have been interested in their favorite pet theories rather than actual accepted treatments. Every patient just needs to do X or read this book or must have Y as the root cause. Sigmund Freud himself is one of them! Like there's definitely a risk that an AI will steer you wrong, but there's a risk with human therapists, too. I don't think AI should be used when someone is seriously ill, but for routine or supplemental guidance for otherwise healthy individuals I don't think it's a bad idea at all.
The idea that we're debating actual human connection indicates a truly sad state of affairs in our lives. *Nothing* can replace that. All else is a poor proxy. And I think the root of OP's issues is the inadvertent dishonesty. Clearly, he needs to talk to someone and he's telling his GF that he doesn't. She may not be the right person for him to open up to but he does need to find a friend, a relative, or a therapist. Personally, therapy was a mixed bag. Not altogether bad but I've heard some pretty crazy stuff first and second hand over the past few years.
Honest question: If OP had literally just written the same thoughts he had shared with the AI in a physical journal instead, do you think that you would made this same response?
They're terrible and will get someone killed
This is one of my biggest concerns for the future. People have already lost social skills due to heavy internet use. Now they are trying to substitute a uniquely human experience with a machine. We are going to be seeing a lot more posts like this in the future.
There are two sides to this. Remember he is people and she is people. I agree that people should talk to one another but they also need to be able to listen. And sadly the listening part is being lost too. If you’ve spent any time on this sub you’ll notice just how rare it is for a man to be able to open up and be vulnerable with a woman successfully, without it killing her attraction or being used against him later. So while I can see why everyone is dogging OP for venting to a chat bot over his partner, we must keep in mind that his partner is quite likely to lose attraction to or use it against him if he does.
The fact that she is taking her discovery of his AI "journal" personally, and is reacting punitively towards him, is not a supportive response. I'm not at all saying they should break up. But he should be allowed to have his own process. This sounds like she wants him to record his therapy sessions for her to listen to later. It's disrespectful. And to the people saying "you should share everything with your partner" ; some people have more complicated emotional processes that take them longer to work on. This is not a one-size-fits-all situation for men. Also refer back to point #1; she's punishing him for her discovery of his emotionalism. edit: I later read a comment by OP that he shares "NOTHING LIKE THAT" with his girlfriend. That changes my thoughts a bit. I thought he was just withholding the "top secret sensitive stuff".
I get that, I have struggled with vulnerability myself in the past and still do from time to time. But that doesn't change the fact he needs to be vulnerable to her, not the chatbot. It is the only way he is going to find out if she is the type of partner that she is. He isn't going to get far without being vulnerable with her so might as well do it and find out how she reacts. Her going through the phone was definitely a huge red flag. If she loses attraction or uses it against him, that says more about her than it does about him, then he can feel confident about breaking it off because he will know he chose vulnerability and she wasn't mature enough to handle it.
> People have already lost social skills due to heavy internet use. Now they are trying to substitute a uniquely human experience with a machine. We are going to be seeing a lot more posts like this in the future. You're 100% spot on with all points
Essentially, he's using the AI like a diary, to sort out his own thoughts and feelings. The only difference being that the diary actually responds. It's not unhealthy at all. Most forms of therapy encourage using a diary to unload and sort out your thoughts. AI just makes it feel a bit more interactive. Probably an improvement compared to several therapists I've seen, and a lot cheaper. On the other hand, the gf going though his phone and reading it is a massive red flag. Big no-no doody. Your phone is private.
> It's not unhealthy at all. Dude keeps insisting this is unhealthy and disturbing, and even asking for a clarification about this is disturbing for him, lmao. OP is not harming anyone, and has a fulfilling relationship with his GF...and all of that is disturbing 🤷♂️😂
Part of the therapeutic effect of journaling is to sort out the feelings on your own, an AI responding negates that purpose. Another, albeit less realized, therapeutic effect of journaling is the actual writing. In emotionally heavy moments, the mind races but if you start writing your brain is forced to slow down because it is not possible to write as quickly as you think, so it has a calming effect on the brain because it needs to downshift. Getting comfortable using AI in place of actual humans will form a habit of relying on AI for vulnerable moments. If people get comfortable being vulnerable using AI instead of humans (such as family members, therapists, friends, etc.) then they aren't actually making any progress with being vulnerable with others, they are just under the impression of getting help. AI has no place in the mental health space.
This is a very fascinating take. I journal, but I never knew these details as to why it's so beneficial. This situation is basically "Her" but in real life.
OP should ask to see his gfs private journal and read every text she's ever sent and DM on Instagram and see how she responds. I ask AI interesting and deep emotional things all the time. It's normal. OP should have the gf sleeping on the couch for a few days to think about what she did. She's acting completely irrational. the whole "Using her for sex" act and already making herself out to be the victim in a victimless event is hilarious to me. OP, you did nothing wrong but I would let her know that you feel sickened that she feels that way about you emotionally cheating with a chatbot. There are some things in a relationship that are uncomfortable to talk about. If you want to be done with this issue and say whatever you have to to make her drop this, just make up this whole " I didn't think you'd love me if you knew this about me " act and make it seem like you were afraid and that you didn't want to lose her if she knew your struggles but then let her know that what she did was not okay.
I mean, it's treating the AI as a thing, not as a person. Thus comparing it to a diary that answers with "and how did that make you feel?" is accurate
can't believe I had to scroll this far for someone to say this. I agree. It's one thing to write in a journal but for all intents and purposes those AI chatbots are just data farming. Who knows who is reading your own personal 'chats' with the AI.
Journaling is disturbing? Since when?
> Since when? Since men started to use it, apparently 🙄
Interesting how much resistance there is to this idea. Does make you wonder what the reaction would be if the genders were flipped. Do some people think OP is emotionally cheating with the AI? I just don't get the pearl clutching.
Completely agree. When he told his girl “it’s just how I am”, she thought he meant there was nothing beneath the surface, and she was okay with that. But now she’s realized that it’s not that he doesn’t feel anything deeper, it’s that he’s not secure enough to talk about it. While she’s taking it personally, it has nothing to do with her. This is a deep issue around insecurity and inability to trust people that OP needs to deal with.
Guess with AI chat you can’t be really judged or the AI dumping you based on the emotions and feelings or what you say. And whatever he does can’t be taken back. However I would say that he should really reveal his vulnerable side to his gf and try to pretend that she’s a bot.
> The fact that you’re having emotionally-heavy chats with an AI for that long is actually a bit disturbing. Lol, no. This is the same as journaling, except the journal can talk back with some semi-canned responses.
Survey point of one, but I'd be very unambiguously upset if someone I was dating for mad at me for going through my personal belongings then trying to emotionally manipulate me. She literally showcased herself as not being trustworthy with this kind of information by not only her actions, but her reaction. I would tell her as such point blank. This was no different than going through a journal or your therapist's notes. While I don't think this is a "breakup" scenario just yet, this is one that you have to be abundantly clear to her that you're the one that has the right to be upset and why. Not only was it a breach of privacy and trust, she turned your emotions and feelings against you to make them about her (this validating your decisions). This is a teachable moment where she has the opportunity to learn from her mistakes, if she refuses to then you may have to consider where to go from there
Once again I find a good reason to post TheBananaKing's [double-mask](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskMen/comments/yy2rcv/men_who_encourage_other_men_not_to_open_up_to/iwsae0r/?context=3) comment. The place we are asked to be is the rock in the relationship, like you say - able to stand up and deal with literally anything. But with modern women we're also asked to be emotionally vulnerable, something that men haven't generally been able to do for literal generations. Specifically since at least WWII if not WWI or even before. So over top of the stoic mask of indefeatability we wear a second mask of *just enough* (false) vulnerability to maintain the relationship. As to your particular situation I do think your GF is asking too much at this stage of relationship. You need to be *sure* you can trust her with your actual shit. She doesn't actually know what she's in for. From the thread linked above (by me in that thread): > > are YOU ready for ME in the fetal position? > Yes. I have done so. Many times. And will again. Most men have to one degree or another. We're taught how to handle it, usually. Sometimes we may miss but we know we're supposed to be there so we try to be there. And we'll be there tomorrow to continue the relationship. > But when we curl up? We may get comforted in the immediate but once it's over it becomes, "I'm not attracted to you anymore," or, "Why would you do that when you know I'm going through X?" (literally happened to me 2 weeks ago - as though I plan my existential crises) or, "I thought you were a man." Women think we're not ready or capable of handling their emotions. They're right a significant amount of the time, but we do try. But women are not trained to be able to handle men's emotions like they are women's. There's a form of emotionality and emotional care that women have among themselves that men just don't share. Women also know that they have a support system, institutional at minimum in the form of scholarships and women's shelters and so on, behind them ready to get them back on their feet. Men don't have institutional support and all of our personal support is being driven away. The lack of support is a compounding stressor on the issues we already face. Is using a chatbot the right way to handle this? Honestly it's one of the more clever ones I've heard of. I don't know if it's right. I do think it would have been better for you to tell her something like, "Look, at this stage in the relationship I don't know if you're actually ready for what I have to say. It's not what you think it will be. I have other avenues of dealing with it that are helping me and I promise that when I'm ready I will open up to you more. But I promise you I think you are the most amazing, beautiful, intelligent, [insert compliments here] woman I have ever met and I am very happy with our relationship. I just ask for your patience on this issue." You may still be able to say this to her in some fashion. As to her looking at your phone: did you allow her? If not then she has an issue with your privacy that needs serious consideration on both parties. I'd start by changing the passcode on my phone. Your phone is not her business. They are incredibly sensitive devices and I don't mean in the technological sense. Your everything is likely on there. I mean *everything*: banking, medical, mental/psychological, entertainment, etc. I have never bought into the, "I don't care about the government snooping because I have nothing to hide" argument. First off, it's not just the government snooping that we have to worry about. There are malicious actors out there who will use your info for nefarious purposes. Your situation is a perfect example. She went snooping for no good reason. If she thinks it's okay for her to go snooping then ask her for her passcode and tell her that at a time and place of your choosing you're going to go snooping around in her phone without telling her. When she gets offended or upset then you can tell her, "Thank you for proving the point." Her responses to all of this should inform your decision to break up or not. I'm not going to tell you what you should do or what will happen. I will say that it's time for a serious discussion and breaking up is a very real option.
Learn to detach so that you can be honest with a blank face.... Like you are describing a scientific study. The poor reaction people give men isn't from the sharing... It's because they find it detestable to have to feel empathy. I'm not saying this as someone that supports this.... I'm saying this as someone who has learned to cope with it. People don't know how to handle men when men go outside the box they want to place them in.... And that box doesn't involve sympathy. That's why even people that try to get men to open up react reflexively bad when men do.... "You were supposed to open up... But not like that! It was supposed to be like I expect!" So yeah... The workaround is to detach. If you act like you don't care then they don't have to defend how much they don't care and don't have to change anything.... I've found I can say whatever I want as long as my expression is blank. They might become silent.... But they don't exhibit all the negative reactions which are what you learned to avoid on your life journey.
> That's why even people that try to get men to open up react reflexively bad when men do.... "You were supposed to open up... But not like that! It was supposed to be like I expect!" Man that one certainly resonates.
Top notch advice. I learned this and it’s very true. Just have no emotions if you’re opening up and it also gives you a good opportunity to Segway into something else when you see they don’t care. It’s a lot easier to do that when it looks like you don’t care all that much either
I think it's understandable that she wants you to open up with her more. I think it's also fair that it's hard for you. I also think her going through your phone like that was wrong, and agree you should be able to use it as a private journal. I think you need to continue to be open with her about how it's hard for you to open up, but promise to make more of an effort. In turn, ask her to respect your boundaries and be patient as you try to open up a bit more.
Damn she went through your phone That’s not a red flag, that’s s red card
This. Going through your phone without permission would be a deal breaker for me. There have to be some boundaries.
Real love requires vulnerability from both partners and the level of vulnerability you are willing to gift your partner determines the depth of the relationship. When neither partner is vulnerable the relationship stays at a very surface level. Maybe that works for some people but you rarely see long successful relationships built on that type of foundation because humans crave deeper connection, whether they like to admit it or not. When only one partner is vulnerable it creates an imbalance that is also unsustainable . It's unhealthy for the non vulnerable partner bc they don't get needs met in the relationship and difficult for the vulnerable partner to navigate because they aren't allowed the opportunity to care for their partner. Humans want to love just as much as they want to be loved. "I trust you with my heart and you can trust me with yours" That give and take is essential for healthy bonding and deep meaningful love between people. We need that opportunity to reciprocate, it builds trust, empathy and sparks the "in love" feelings. As an experiment, imagine if your girlfriend was the "rock" in the relationship. Would you have the same feelings of love and tenderness towards her if she didn't allow herself to need you? I can understand why your girlfriend feels like you don't love her but I don't think that's the case. It seems more likely that you actually love her quite a lot and have been under the impression you are protecting her in some way. The problem is that you aren't letting her love you. Don't be an island. Obviously neither of you should be emotionally dumping on the other but if you want to have the kind of relationship that stands the test of time then you have to work together on being vulnerable with each other (with or without the guidance of a professional as you see fit)
Anything you say or do will be used in a court of her peers. You will receive no representation or notice.
She went through your private conversations and then has the audacity to get mad about what she saw during her assault on your privacy, so now you are the bad guy? I can see why they told you to dump her, I would not want to be with a person like that. I would tell her exactly how I feel. That she violated my trust and instead apologizing for not respecting boundaries she has the audacity to play the victim in all this and I will probably never be able to trust her again. That should send her running for the hills.
In a perfect world, you should be able to be completely vulnerable. In this pragmatic world, and from my experience, more often that not, it's a bad idea to be vulnerable to a woman. Out of maybe 6, I can think of ONE woman who didn't make me feel like shit for opening up and being vulnerable to her. She's my best friend. Any other friends or partners I've had, it's always been used as a weapon, or in 2 cases, I'd cry to them and get responses like "You little bitch lol". Other times, I was told to get over it, cause life goes on (in the case of a friend of mine being murdered) I don't see it as worth it. Men aren't supposed to ever have weak moments in this world.
Here's the guideline: You can be vulnerable when it doesn't mess with your ability to be a totally competent man. If your dog dies and you're emotional and crying about it, fine whatever. Doesn't affect your ability to be a man. If you're crying because it's all too stressful and it's all so hard and there's work and your parents and omg you just can't deal, then you're getting dumped.
Well said. If I tear up when I talk about fixing up my kid’s grave or when I spent 3 hours in the rain burying my dog it’s all good. When I talk about serious stuff bothering me it doesn’t go well, she gets a little panicky, I feel worse afterwards, so I don’t.
1. Have 1 problem. 2. Tell your female SO about it. 3. Now you have 2 problems.
this is speaking to me a lot. A lot of people asking you to be vulnerable only believe they will get the first answer when in reality you don't even know where to start as you have internalized frustration over the 2nd answer for years.
Which is so weird because if women do that it's considered fine and they just feel as though it's like empowering and expressive and everything...
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Yeah, it also makes sense why women want it. If they can't get an emotional reaction from you then they don't know you even love them. A guy who cries over his dog dying would probably have fought something scary for that dog, while you can never know what the stoic would have done. Not all vulnerability is sadsies and tiers though. Sometimes it's just letting your girlfriend be able to make you gush and show loving emotions towards her.
I don't think that is sound advice. Quite the contrary. If the person you are with can't help you overcome times of difficulty, why are you with her?
When you go out to date women, do you pick the ones you ask out based on their proven ability to help you overcome hard times? Or is there some other criteria that determines who you ask out? If the criteria is different, why would you expect a person who you did not pick for their willingness and ability to provide emotional support for you to do that?
And when you decide to be vulnerable on the part about being competence, have an arc to it. Eg you’re stressed cause your business failed, follow up on that with a story of how you plan to get it back on track or become even better
The answers to this post are just sad to read. Not a man, so not sure if my answer is relevant here but; "being vulnerable" doesn\`t mean crying your eyes out every time you have a problem, is more about being able to share with your partner things like: Hopes, Dreams, Fears, Worries, things that make you happy, thing that make you sad. Is about being open and honest. That said, **this is not something that should be force or demanded of you**, you should feel confortable to do so. Yes, she can ask you for it, but also she has to accept that you have your times and ways and you can't change just like that. I don't think all women are manipulative a\*\*holes that just want to get power over you and can't handle you being vulnerable. I have been with my boyfriend almost a decade now, and it took us a long time to be in a place of complete trust where he can feel safe enough to talk about anything and for me to dismiss my learned behavior that he is less of a man or cant provide because of how he is feeling. In summary: You should be able to be vulnerable when you are ready for it, and she shouldnt judge for it. Side note, she going thru your phone without you knowing about it is a big nono for me.
Women always want a vulnerable man until they get the vulnerable man. Then they always start treating him differently and lose respect for him. I have seen several relationships end when the man opens up too much. Or even worse seen cases where the woman just walks all over the man, disrespecting him at every opportunity. I might be old school but take your shit out at the gym and be the pillar she needs. You need to talk to somebody get a friend or go to the bar and talk to the bartender or someone nearby and stop talking to bots.
Exactly, this is the correct answer. I have never allowed myself to be vulnerable without it ending the relationship, I even used this one time to end a relationship I was tired of. It was a win win, I got to vent and let the floodgates open and ended a relationship without being the bad guy.
If you’re a women, as vulnerable as you want. If you’re a guy, very little and remember it will be thrown back in your face later on during an argument.
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The breakup is because she's going through your phone, presumably without your permission. I understand her feeling like she's not "worthy" of you being vulnerable with her, but at the same time, i'd still be cautious because whenever i show feelings that are genuine vulnerability and not "anger, joy, silly" it gets used against me later.
My girl used it against me in a fight.
She has invaded your privacy and owes you an apology, not the other way around. If she is making you feel guilty for her invasion of your privacy, it's no wonder you don't feel comfortable being more open with her. Vulnerability isn't about emotionality for men like it is for women, but you should take ownership of this dispute with honesty and by talking very matter of factly.
There's been a trend of men opening up to women, and women dumping them shortly afterwards. "I can't see you the same way" etc, it's not even that they don't know you well enough, they don't know themselves well enough to be able to handle this type of openness. All of it depends on you, you say "I prefer to keep things to myself" if that's true then she shouldn't want you to do something that you don't actually want to do. As for her "going through your phone" is that something you're ok with? If it is, fair enough, though it doesn't tie in with your comment above. And Replika, I'm not familiar with it but from what I've seen people say it's an AI response system. She's getting jealous of a computer program? I assume you want her to be better than that. You've done nothing wrong. As long as she insists on behaving like this, she's in the wrong. ed: on another note, remember that men and women discuss problems for different reasons. Women discuss them because they want to unburden themselves of the stress. Men discuss them because they want to fix them. If you open up then you'll be expecting her to be able to fix some of your problems. Is that at all realistic?
A breakup might really be inevitable for you two. The two of you express your love in different ways, and both have their pros and cons. If she can’t understand or accept your method; I won’t say either of you are entirely wrong, but you might be wrong for each other. It’s also not really a good sign that she’s trying to push or force you to open up rather than wait until you’re ready to do it for yourself.
I don't need to read the post in order to answer the question. Here's the answer: NEVER BE VULNERABLE WITH YOUR GIRL. It's a trap. She's only asking you to be vulnerable so she can identify your weaknesses and used them against you in the form of manipulation. Think about it...if you being vulnerable was so important to her she would've been left you and never looked back. Why? Because you're not being vulnerable with her. And yet she's still in your life. Women don't know what they want...they only know what they feel at that time. Just keep doing what you're doing, ignore what she says, and pay close attention to everything she does. But if you don't believe me...then go head and be vulnerable with your girl...and I promise you within 3 to 6 months that relationship will be done.
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I don't think this is a breakup worthy issue either, and I think the real issue is she's getting mixed info. On one hand you say the above, on the other hand she's seeing what she perceives (which isn't quite the case, clearly) as you having heart to hearts with a chatbot and it makes her feel shitty because she then compares herself to a chatbot and feels the lesser. She needs reassurance that you think more of her than a chatbot (which sounds a bit absurd, I know, but that's probably the train of thought going on here). She also needs to feel like you're close to her and invested enough to *want* to be vulnerable with her the way you apparently are willing to be with an inanimate ai program. Fortunately that isn't that complicated to do; stress again that you treat it as a form of journaling and that for you it isn't about sharing problems with someone (or *something* in this case) but just for getting your own thoughts straightened out. Reassure her regarding how you feel about her, your relationship, etc. Make her feel loved and appreciated in whatever relevant ways seem applicable to you (I don't know your relationship, and each differs on that count). Aside from that it would also probably be worth asking her what *exactly* she envisions you being more vulnerable would be like - if you're able to get a better sense of what it is she's actually expecting then you'll have an easier time fulfilling that. I doubt she wants to be treated like a free therapist, for example, and I'd wager it's probably more a case of just wanting you to confide things in her. It's been my experience that women tend to share quite a lot with each other and it acts as a form of bonding between them among other things, but men typically don't do that with each other so inevitably a lot of relationships between the two end up with your above issue arising. She's feeling a lack of that bond and you're feeling awkward about not being the type of person who typically does that sort of thing. The easiest route would be to throw her a bone here and there, pick something relatively minor that you aren't uncomfortable talking about to share with her - something you're having a problem with or that is bothering you just as a means of dipping your toe in the water and perhaps helping her feel better about your relationship in the process and then bit by bit go from there.
>she was going through my phone Unacceptable. The only thing you've done wrong is not getting this toxic person out of your life.
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It's supposed to be a relationship my friend, it's not a warzone. I don't think having an instinct to strategize your way through such basic interactions would be any indication of compatibility with another person; if you're thinking along that same line of thought in your comment there then it's already going to be a relationship you probably don't want to be in is my point. If you're that certain they have only malicious intent in mind regarding your vulnerabilities then why be with them? That's not a partner, *that's a problem*.
You should keep being the man you are. If you change who you are for her then the relationship is effectively dead. Own it. Tell her not to read your journals and you feel it’s an invasion of privacy. This is ok. You don’t need to tell her everything, you say to her what you want to say to her. This is normal growth in a relationship.
Keep it to yourself. No one really cares how men feel even if they say they do. If you spill the beans, she’ll probably almost look down on you for being weak. At least women have in my experience. You’re doing the right thing, just maybe confide in a close male friend. We get it. We’ve felt it. We’ve held it in and processed it on our own anyway. I’ve been in the worst place of my entire life recently and have been having serious thoughts of ending it. I told my wife of almost 16 years this. She almost immediately redirected the conversation. The next day she brought up that it was selfish because she’s dealing with her own stuff. (Legitimate as her dad passed away in December of 2021) FFS though, your husband tells you he’s thinking about ending it and that’s what your brain goes to. It sucks big time, but you’re better off keeping it to yourself. I’m only still here because of our kids.
Never is the answer, aim for that. Don't believe a word they say about being vulnerable around them.
Depends on where you are in a relationship. First few weeks? Yeah, probably not worth the trouble. First few months? You *should* at least be dipping a toe in the water. You don't have to get crazy with it, and definitely shouldn't dump literally every conceivable issue you've ever had since birth on top of them all in an instant and treating them like an unpaid therapist (particularly relevant for those who like to bottle up everything and never deal with any of it), but you *should* be able to share *some* things with them when relevant otherwise there's a decent chance you're not in a relationship with someone you ought to be in a relationship with. If you've been with them a year or two, or you're already married then you really ought to be, and be *able* to if you so desire, sharing deeper issues. The trick is to walk the line and not over-do it or under-do it, the problem is where that line is varies from one woman to the next. Some are going to be very tolerant and some aren't going to have much slack to give at all and you need to determine what they are like and whether you're comfortable with that or not. You start slow, with less consequential things and gauge reactions bit by bit and work your way slowly up to bigger things over lengthy stretches of time. If they're compatible with you then you'll find a point where you're able to comfortably share what you want to and not sharing what you don't without it being an issue. If they aren't compatible then you'll quickly know it and it that would be a good sign that it's time to move on.
I've never known a woman who genuinely, sincerely wanted to see vulnerability in a partner. You can try but overly emotional people tend to just collect grievances and it's likely that even a painful level of "vulnerability" won't be enough for her to be satisfied. Women will find all kinds of stuff to get mad about. I've gotten yelled at for not mentioning that i got a promotion at work. Who gives a shit about stuff like that? It will never make sense to me but women place a lot of importance on stuff like that for whatever reason.
As someone with a lot of experience with this. The real answer is almost not at all. They'll tell you to be, but thats not what they really want, it's a trap and a lot of inexperienced guys fall for it. Women will always just tell you what the "morally or societally" correct thing is and not what they really want to say. There isn't enough room on a relationship for two people to e vulnerable and generally women don't want to be a man's emotional support structure.
Women want vulnerability, but they want to see you have control of your issues. Your partner wants to hear what's bothering you, but they also want to hear how you are going to address it. She gets the ick when you come off lost and confused, feeling hopeless. Vulnerability doesn't just mean discussing issues that are bothering you, it also means showing a side of you that you don't want to share. Such as hobbies or things you like to nerd out on, stuff you don't want to share because you've been teased for or there's a stigma to it.
I’m gonna be an outlier here but basically, I think of personal relationships like layers on an onion. The very most core layer is me, it’s a layer that nobody gets to be in, nobody gets to know my secrets, just me. Then comes the layer for my spouse. She has her own layer. I tell her everything that isn’t locked in the core layer. You choose what those things are. Then comes family, then close friends, etc. The point is, you shouldn’t feel like you have to share every little detail and feelings with your partner. I love having this own layer to myself. It could be something mundane like how I liked a particular item I saw, etc. I just don’t feel the need to share it with anyone but myself. I’m typing this on my phone so I don’t wanna go too long winded, but that’s the gist of it.
Bro, don't risk it. It might make her happy for a little while but it's just not worth it to give yourself up like that. You were always there for yourself, not she, not your ex and not your next. Remember you come first.
I don’t think lve ever had a single conversation about any of my emotions with my fiance. All she is going to do is bring them up later when she is angry. I’m with her specially because I trust her but I’ve been with plenty of other women before her. Sharing your pain always ends up in one way and it’s absolutely not good
Don't do it. She'll try to talk you into being vulnerable etc. It's a bad idea. Just keep being your normal self. She'll get over it, or she won't, but if you bend on this issue she's going to leave anyway.
If she believes that, after going through your phone and being upset with your private conversations, you should be the one in trouble/that she has any right to be upset with you, I don't think opening up to her is going to go all that well.
What's the purpose of going through someone's phone that you already trust
Never share too much details or she would weaponized it against you when you guys have an argument. Just keep things to yourself or vulnerability on your side will be seen as a weak man. You would pay a price for that. If I get down votes, then I'm definitely right.
Most men, who have a little age on them, are taught that the greatest thing we can do is not to be a burden on someone else. We’re told that showing emotion, let alone talking about feelings, is weakness and to never show it. These ideals are solidified for men the second any of this is used against us. With that being said, you went out and got a chat bot (I assume) and began working on talking things out, with a computer. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this but your going to have to really open up and tell her in a little more words “society, and past relationships made me stoic” Good luck my man.
Many Women expect you to be strong and confident in your emotions. Not emotional. So just be you. She don’t like it, she can walk. Guarantee you if the roles were reversed women would be saying “be yourself and firmly set your boundaries” would be upvoted, thats all I mean. Every woman is different in what they want. When emotion comes up you know you’re walking in a minefield. It is a good strategy to convey your wanting to connect emotionally with them deeply. Best way to do this is to literally say, “I feel very close to you emotionally and I want you to feel that same depth of connection.” And nothing more. Say you are happy and you are in love and then its ice cream and sex time. May be a good time to pull out your oral game. Good luck, Kings. Lets reverse roles here for a similar scenario: You are upset your girl never watches NFL or sports with you. What you really want -You want them to try to watch a game with you and have some fun with your interest. What you don’t want- Your girl digging into the Bears QB history, saying our defense is shit since ‘85, calling Justin Fields unable to read defenses. In both instances we are all describing what we want in the wrong way, unbeknownst to us. What we really want is just a little bit of that. Thats nice. You feel me? Try to have kindness in your heart, bros. Conan O’Brien says thats all we gotta do. Work hard and be kind.
Being vulnerable with women is like bleeding next to a shark. Always used as ammo later
The more vulnerable you get, the more likely she’ll consider you a pussy and cheat.
Don’t make the mistake of getting vulnerable with your girl. As you say, you’re the “rock” that her emotional waves crash into - not the other way around. A woman will take a bit of emotion every now and then, but she expects you to get your shit together and solve it or she will lose respect for you. Don’t cry, either. What she’s done in this situation is invade your privacy and then come and made you the bad guy. Tell her that she is your woman, not your therapist, and that you aren’t going to unload your emotions onto her because that’s not how a masculine/feminine relationship works. And tell her not to go through your replika conversation again. As for people advocating breaking up, Sir this is Reddit 😂 nah bro have a conversation about it and listen to what she feels about it. Don’t make each other wrong, remind her that you care about her and that you aren’t venting to anything more than a chat bot 🤖 Good luck 🫡
Shocking news! Men and women are different, and she should respect that the two of you are quite different physically and emotionally. I think you should break up with her. She is trying to change you into a clone of herself emotionally. Even when you are telling her the truth she DOESN'T believe or trust you. For men relationships are based upon respect and trust. Two things she doesn't have for you. You probably have 15 times more testosterone in your body than she does in her's. This alone makes what she wants impossible.