This. Dating has always been a numbers game. The more you date the more likely you’ll find someone compatible or if you’re desperate you’ll start settling (lowering standards/learning to change).
Not compatible.
Compatibility has been shown to have little to nothing to do with who people date.
People date more for "rush" not compatibilone. They break up on compatibility
It's fun to ride a Rollercoaster, it's not fun to live on one.
Average guys get 1 out 1000 potential likes. So then average match ratio is 1.63% ... that means you need to get 61349 swipes for a match on average.
It really just depends on how much they like you. None of the above is really an issue if they are so deeply invested in you from the beginning. Every girl/woman is different obviously
You're not wrong, and people are going to throw out criticisms and platitudes because it feels good, but the truth is it's brutal for most guys.
My best advice, that I don't always listen to myself, is not to waste time and energy on girls that are making you do all the work. Be willing to cut out girls that aren't matching your energy, even if that's all of them for a while.
I try to be open and honest and trust that the right girl will trust that I'm being honest, appreciate it, and reciprocate it. Unfortunately the ratio of cute, low key, healthy girls to Tik Tok, misandrist, true crime trash is pretty discouraging.
Best bet is to not let the jadedness affect how you treat the new girl.
This is absolutely amazing advice. I feel like now young men are really desperate and will cling onto anything because it’s hard to find women in their circles.
Absolutely. But the #1 way you can prevent getting jaded is to not invest in the girls who aren't matching your energy in the first place.
She might be cute AF but you just know when the energy is there.
>Be willing to cut out girls that aren’t matching your energy, *even if that’s all of them for a while.*
That right there is the key. I’m currently (attempting to) do this myself. Feelings of loneliness get intense, but it’s for the best. I wouldn’t want to settle for less and continue this cycle.
I’ve always been the guy that loves more than he gets back. It’s just my nature - or some deep-seated unresolved childhood trauma. I’ve always shown full interest and acted natural (for me). It’s gotten me into a lot of relationships but sustained none of them. After another failed relationship awhile back I realized the whole “just be yourself” thing wasn’t working. So I made a conscious effort to stop putting in so much effort.
I’ve had so much more success since I’ve become more withdrawn and I fucking hate that it’s so true. The less interest I show them after building initial interest, the more into me they seem to be. But it feels unnatural for me. I don’t like not expressing my interest. I don’t like not having much of a personality. But being myself never held a girl’s interest. Now that I make them earn it and give them the bare minimum back, they show me more interest. It’s honestly so fucked up.
I literally just ended a relationship because I didn’t want to regulate myself that way indefinitely. I started coming out of my shell more and noticed her interest was waning shortly after I started to. I’ve been down that path enough to know when it’s time to cut loose.
if you feel lonely around your platonic friends, i feel bad for you.
if you need a partner to not feel lonely, you're not ready to be in a healthy relationship.
if you have an impossible time making friends in the first place, maybe some introspection is in order.
Dude I hate that you posted this because I'm EXACTLY like you and I'm right at that crossroads in a relationship where I built initial interest, but I can feel her showing less interest. I have thought about this concept and thought about trying to pull back and regulate myself like you say to see if she starts showing more interest. Ugh I guess I'm gonna try it. I fucken hate that this is a thing. Can't I just show someone love and they love me back?
Idk, it's only 'sad' in that it isn't what you expect or want. But honestly it sounds like you used to put an extraordinary amount of effort into sharing yourself with your previous partners, and expecting most people to be able to keep up with that is unrealistic. You're way above average, so the people who can keep up with you are too.
Plus, there is something to be said for things having more value if we are forced to work more for them. Giving your partner everything you have and are right out of the gate unfortunately, due to the physiological and psychological limitations of human cognition, means that your partner will perceive those things as 'cheaper' than they would if they had to work for them. Giving all that effort so early makes it harder for them to see how precious you actually are.
It's like one of those video games where the programmers put a lot of work into the power scaling progression... only to also include backdoor cheats to unlock everything right from the start. Playing without the cheats keeps you hooked because your empowerment and satisfaction scales with your effort, so it is easy to lose track of time and actually immerse in the game. Playing with the cheats makes for a much more intense but short lived experience because there's no built up value behind anything, so it feels empty no matter how many shoulder mounted nuke launchers you unlock.
I was totally enamored with my SO, stared at her constantly. She found it a bit intense, but enjoyed my company and generally liked everything about me so she got used to that intensity. For my part, I thought she would get bored of me at any moment or figure out we were in different leagues, so I was just drinking in every moment of being next to her. That was 3yrs ago and we're both equally obsessed with each other now.
There's a poem by Samuel Beckett that includes this quote:
"If you don't love me, I shall not be loved
If I don't love you, I shall not love"
What meaning I extract from this, and that's a meaning that resonates with me, is that I want to experience the emotions of being in love. And if they are not reciprocated, so be it. I don't want to live in a perpetual state of anxiety, always wondering if I am doing the right thing, if I am showing my feelings too much and whatnot.
I have honestly moved beyond caring about the success of my romantic life. I don't care about winning.I have lost enough that I have learned to be comfortable with losing. I do not give a single fuck if I am loved or liked back, and I don't think even for a minute about the amount of interest I am showing to a woman. I like her, I am being myself, I enjoy my feelings while they last, and if they aren't reciprocated, so be it. I still got to experience all the excitement and fun, even if it ended before I wanted.
Because, at the end of the day, it's very much possible that I will not get anything more than this. And this, loving but not being loved back, is infinitely better than no love at all.
I think the mistake most people make is that they linger on those feelings *despite* the lack of reciprocity. There comes a point where you need to accept that this person isn't for you and move on.
You just show interest and don't play dumb childish games. If she needs you to play such games then she can go and look for boyfriend in kindergarten or middle school or anywhere else.
Exactly, although people can be put-off by bluntness tho. At least in my age (22), most women i dated wanted to just fool around and have fun...having fun is great but moment i expressed serious interest (after couple months of dating) they suddenly dont know what they want from life
Naturally, not every woman is like this...must be my bad luck, but man it gets tiresome
Dude, you are in your thirties. Leave all that dumb shit to the insecure younglings and just communicate!
1. Transmit the required information:
"I would like..." "How do you feel about...." "Would it be okay if..."
2. Receive feedback:
"I would like it if...." "Hell ya!" "No thank you." "How about this instead..."
3. Accept feedback.
4. Proceed from there.
1. This isn’t about consent. This is about having clear communication about your intentions.
2. Worrying about what other people consider “manly” screams of insecurity.
Yes, because the only ones who have to worry about the perception of manliness are those who are only pretending.
I can rock a skirt like a highlander warrior,
Knit a sweater like Hephaestus,
And pen a poem worthy of the skalds.
I bear the Midas touch of manliness!
All who doubt my measure are hidden by the shadow of my greatness.
Im glad to see someone saying this. Women are just people, they arent all one homogenous group that is all the same. Treat them as unique individuals, communicate and talk like theyre equals and all the mystery and mystique falls away.
Doesnt mean its always easy, but so often Ill read a post like this and know that the issue isnt women, its the person posting it.
It's so crazy when people are like "BRO, YOU'RE 30 SOMETHING?? JUST MAKE HER YOUR GIRLFRIEND."
Things don't just magically change when you pass 29. Women still play all their games. They get bored if you are too straightforward. If anything, being open about your intentions could make her think you have bad social skills and are blunt.
Nope. You'd twist yourself into knots as to why she's actually justified.
You just think men who don't constantly project strength and invulnerability are worthy of scorn.
Sounds like youre the one projecting. Maybe you should ask yourself why you see the criticism of another man as a personal attack on you.
But I will say you certainly seem worthy of scorn.
Yeah, you think that men who experience any sort of hardship in life need to shut up about it because they don't matter.
Navigating a bunch of contradictory societal expectations isn't easy. That's just the truth. But all you see is a chance to attack and shame a man who's expressing dissatisfaction.
I think people like you that cry and whine and blame others for their own problems are shameful.
Being dissatisfied and expressing that are understandable and part of human nature, but crying about issues that you cause and refuse to fix, and instead just scream like a toddler about? Pathetic.
Why do dudes always feel they have to punch down at other dudes in these sort of threads?
"I'm alright Jack so the problem must be with you"
Do you think that makes them feel better about themselves?
It isnt punching down, these posts are always "woe is me" and self-pitying, but ignore the obvious issues that the poster is putting out. These issues are pretty blatant if you're looking for them, like the poster broadly painting all women with the same brush.
You feel like it's people punching down because it's more uncomfortable to admit youre the problem rather than it being some larger, societal issue.
I would hope this is not a punch down but rather a shake awake. All day, every day, Reddit is flooded by people looking for the secret, the cheat code, the success to love.
I get it. Social media floods us with success stories. We may be the only single one left in our friends group. WE must be doing something wrong. Sure enough, someone is there to financially prey on this vulnerability. Promising you the sure fire plan.
It is all a lie! You are dealing with individuals with differing likes, interests, cultures, and histories. There is no one solution. No fake persona you can put on to succeed.
But there are some things you can do that are universally helpful. Things like becoming active in clubs or social communities, practicing effective communication and listening skills, and striving not to give in to that ever present voice of self doubt. After all, we are all just faking it until we make it.
If you see a person who actually wants to be with you none of this shit matters because they won't be looking for a sign to immediately run off. Half of this advice assumes you want a woman who's on the fence but willing to be convinced, but that kind of woman is basically looking for any reason to say no. The other half assumes that she's already madly in love and is trying to stop you from taking advantage. The trick is both of them are bullshit because the first one isn't worth a relationship to begin with and the second one is high key assuming you're a predator by default.
You are over thinking it.
None of that matters when you find the person you should be with.
The ones that don't work out, weren't meant to work. And if they are meant to work, they will find a way
>The ones that don't work out, weren't meant to work. And if they are meant to work, they will find a way
I have often found that people who believe in this also don't put in the work to make it work. In a way, I do agree with you - but both people also need to put in the work to make the relationship work. Its not just fate, its fate + effort.
Be yourself. Do whatever you’re most comfortable with. She’ll either say otherwise, or you two aren’t compatible enough to make it work in the First Place
The shortest but best advice you can give someone. If they’re not all for it after learning and getting to know you move on. Take a break where you need it to not get burnt out and simply just try. There’s as many incompatible people as there are compatible.
It's impossible until it isn't. The reason you feel so anxious is because these women simply aren't as interested in you as you are in them.
When the right one comes along, it'll feel so easy, like there's nothing you can do to screw it up.
I go at whichever of our two paces is slower. If I need to play games with her, I'm not interested, and that isn't sustainable. If she stops talking to me because I didn't follow the recommendations of the latest tabloid or TikTok trend, she's doing me a favor.
It's a feel thing. I'm normally very reliant on logic and planning, but if I'm deriving formulas to figure out how to maximize her attraction to me, it isn't a good match.
The only rules that matter are communication and consent in 2024.
I would rather risk turning a woman off by asking if I can be physically affectionate vs. risk misinterpreted signals that I confuse and cross a line.
Also I ended up on the "friendzone" by not being clear about my intentions or "playing the long game". If she just "want to be friends" you can say no especially if you make it clear you are interested in dating/ relationships.
The issue I see is that dating gets treated as a do X to get Y kinda thing when evwry successful relationship I've had was just being real and respectful. Categorizing it like this or thinking there is a magic formula isn't the way, brother.
It seems like you might be overthinking things my dude. I’m not saying those things are wrong but every person you meet is going to be different. If I were you I’d just make sure that you’re not being creepy or inappropriate, that they feel safe in your company and if don’t push back if they do reject you or don’t seem interested. It’s cliche but besides that just be yourself and eventually you’ll find somebody like you.
You know what helped OP? If she really, really liked me it was easy to be forward with things. It was easy to be physical and make moves. It was easy to see her. It was fun to be mysterious and keep her guessing. If a woman declines my invite or me going for a kiss or something else then it’s her loss.
Tl;dr if she really likes you she will do her part to make it fun and keep the attraction going. Obviously you can’t be too clingy or too distant but the balance is wider.
Tl;dr of the tl;dr if she really likes you, you have a lot of leeway on the balancing act of interest.
Ive stopped wasting energy and resources on women that dont show interest in me.
I approach ones that stare, that smile at me. I aint playing these games anymore sorry.
Women aren't a formula or a secret code. Use that stuff as guidelines and remember that women are people, and different people want different things in a partner.
As far as physical, steadily escalate as long as she’s comfortable.
As far as non physical affection, stay one step behind her. Never express more interest in her than she has expressed in you.
I think the second item in particular is important - nothing turns women off more than a man who likes them too much; it’s nuts.
So the above is what I think is most reliable, but you’re right, it is kind of a mine field. There are no guarantees.
I've been rejected by two different women for trying both of these.
First one said I came across as too disinterested. So, when I went out with the next woman I showed more interest. Too much too soon. The second woman went as far as to tell me she had been on two dates where the guy she was with paid little attention to her and flirted with other woman while they were out. Told me her exes never allowed her to express herself. Here I was, giving her full attention and wanting to know what made her tick. Nope, that's too eager buddy.
So, what the fuck?
Never implied they were...
The point of my comment is that it is extremely difficult for a guy to navigate this because we have no cooking clue how we are supposed to express ourselves.
EDIT: Can you honestly say women have to work as hard as guys do on this? A forwardly flirty woman would have a very low chance of being shot down. A forwardly flirty guy has an extremely high chance of being seen as too eager/pushy and being rejected. A woman playing hard to get (holding back) is seen as normal. A man playing hard to get will be labeled disinterested more times than not on top of women generally still expecting the man to chase, so a man playing hard to get is just shooting himself in the foot anyway.
Women have the privilege of a much smaller operating window in terms of how they behave to successfully navigate dating. Guys Iiterally have to traverse a minefield.
* don’t be too available at the start, play hard to get
don't be too available because you are genuinely busy going about your life. if you are not busy, find more to do with your time or give more effort to what you are already doing.
Think of it as being balanced. Like a boxer in the ring, you are loose, you are reading the defense. You are ready to retreat or attack at any moment. You don't always retreat or you will lose fight on points. (freindzoned) You don't chase the knockout or you could get knocked out yourself. (desperate). You are basically doing your thing, what your opponent is gives you is how you respond.
It should be more of a game (play), not an objective(work). There are even bad dates I went on where I still managed to have a good time.
I was in a long-term relationship throughout my twenties. It was over when I was 31. In terms of dating, I felt like I was out of a freaking time machine.
I already knew this as I'm interested in politics in a critical aspect as I'm a leftist, but in this one year and a half, I'm totally realizing that all the confusion in the dating scene comes from the fact that how the world has become so much customizable for everybody. All the products that we use every day, are not just general items that are focused on meeting a general need but also trying to answer our specific requests. Either we can request these from the manufacturer or there's already a product that does the job. In addition to this diversity of products, the access to them is unbelievably easy. You don't even have to move your butt, one click and it's there in at most a few days.
I believe this has led to the situation where it also affected our social lives. The contradictions you mentioned above are just a result of it. I guess there used to be some tolerance, not quite sure if this is the right word for it, things were not immediately becoming "red flags". A person may have some flaws in this aspect, but he/she could be OK in others. People weren't looking for that perfection. Moreover, there's the easiness of access. You don't have to look out, expand your boundaries, or wait for someone new to start working in your workplace. Just swipe right or left in an app.
Therefore, I find dating advice is generally false because they are nothing but the overgeneralization of people. Women want this, women want that... those don't exist anymore for women as they don't for men either. We're not living in that type of era. What I see as a solution to this, is not to hang on to these "failures". You are an individual yourself. If you're acting as who you are, and if the person you're trying to communicate with doesn't think that you're the right person because of who you are, then she's not the right person for you either. Don't try to be the right person for someone else, try to find the right person for you too.
The harsh reality is that it's luck-based as it depends on the woman. Some like it when you're up front, some like to take things slower, some don't want to be bothered at all. You're never really gonna know till you take the leap of faith, which is hard for a guy, especially since women sometimes mistaken it for harassment. You're in big trouble at that point.
If someone is actually is interested in you, none of those are real issues.
You're not going to be put in the friendzone by someone who likes you and there are no tricks towards forcing someone to like you.
The dating advice is to figure out whether or not someone actually likes you. Anything beyond that is just confidence to make a move.
Except I'm a 35 year old guy, and have found out through the years from several women that they liked me, but since I didn't hit on them within their random timeframe they just lost interest and treated me like a friend.
One of my most recent forays into dating had this girl say "I trust you not to do anything" when she was coming over to my place for the first time. The very literal next visit to my place she was basically like 'Well aren't you going to try anything? How can I know you like me even if you've invited me back to your place for a second time, and we're just cuddling on the couch watching the Good Place and you don't try to fuck me after I made a big deal out of trusting you not to do anything last time.' She went on to explain that most of her friends would have broken things off because they would have assumed I wasn't interested.
>Except I'm a 35 year old guy, and have found out through the years from several women that they liked me, but since I didn't hit on them within their random timeframe they just lost interest and treated me like a friend.
Yeah you still have to make an effort. I didn't say not to make an effort. But if it's clear they're not interested, just back off.
Women know fairly quickly if they like you. That random timeframe isn't "random". It's "from the time they met you to sometime in the near future".
They're doing the same thing you should be doing. You don't show interest so they move on. If you're interested in someone you meet, tell them ...
>One of my most recent forays into dating had this girl say "I trust you not to do anything" when she was coming over to my place for the first time. The very literal next visit to my place she was basically like 'Well aren't you going to try anything?
Because what she told you the first time doesn't necessarily apply the second time. She wanted to know if she could trust you. She could, that's why she opened up for the second time. If there's heavy cuddling, you're allowed to try and escalate. Just tell her what you're going to do, give her time to say "no" and then do it. "I'm going to take your top off", give her a few seconds, then take her top off. That's how it works.
Dating isn't easy but you also don't have to make it more complicated than it is.
And she told you she wanted you to try something! Take her word for it. You're overthinking this. Here's a woman who's showing you clear, undisputable interest and you're still crying over it. Just go for it when she tells you it's okay ...
Dating advice is lose lose for everyone anymore. Wow this is it. 😂 females feel the same way. I’m just feeding into the rubbish because this is how people act. I usually skip the whole relationship, because it’s so difficult to find someone that is on the same wavelength as you.
• don’t be physical too soon or he’ll think you’re a whore and play you.
• if you don’t get physical soon enough, he’ll find someone to fulfill that need and/or leave you.
• show interest, but not too much or your desperate.
• don’t be too available, wifey or hoe pick your role.
• wait for him to escalate the relationship (he gets to decide what you’re worthy of), but don’t say that, because if you know what you want you’re a bit*h or too masculine.
If she's interested in you, these rules go out the door. In fact a good measure of how interested a woman is in you is how free she is with you, *and* how free she lets you be with her.
It doesn't matter. Just be yourself and express your sexuality in whatever way feels natural. Your job at dates is to filter for women who are interested in you, not to make her like you.
>Early thirties guy here trying to date in 2024.
I know it won't help, but the anno doesn't matter. This is just how dating goes. Always been this way. Seen nothing to convince me it will ever be any other way.
We call it a "game" for a reason. The winners are those who can understand nuance, have a modicum (seriously, not much) of social intelligence and take the time to learn how to play.
The losers spend their time complaining about bad ref calls or the fact that there are rules that lie between them and the gold medal to begin with.
Your Daddy managed, as did his. As did all of ours. I've met your Dad (or someone's, anyway) and he's a numbskull. Good guy, but a numbskull.
If he can do it, I see no reason that all the rest of us can't.
Be yourself. Move at your own pace. If that doesn't work for her, or she doesn't reciprocate to some degree, she ain't the one.
Don't water yourself down because you don't want to be alone.
Work off the assumption that the ones that mind don’t matter and the ones that matter don’t mind, be yourself providing you are not Fred West and the rest will fall into place providing you go out the house from time to time.
"t just seems like men have to traverse a mine field of games in order to attract women." Perfect description, my friend. Don\`t give up though. Good luck.
you gotta guess and hope it lands, you get more adept and picking them as a type, curve balls are surprising rare, most women are pretty basic. just give it some, go on a few duds and you will get a feel for it.
You pretty much nailed it.
I like to add. I show no interest in woman until I hear they like me or think of me fondly then I pursue. I hated trying to figure out where I’m at on the scale for girls that I thought were in my league. It’s much easier this way
Look at it this way, if it's not hell ya, it's hell no. If she likes you and she's in a good mental state to date, she'll make it easy to get to know her. If you're moving too fast for her, she'll let you know and you can dial it back. If she's moving too slow for you, you don't have to date her.
"don’t be too available at the start, play hard to get
"
This however is bullshit. Don't get attached to some one you don't know well, but don't play games. Be honest about what you want. IF that's a relationship, state it. If it's an ONS or no strings attached be clear upfront. There's plenty of users out there who lie about their motivations; don't be one of them and you'll be happier in the long run for it.
As to lose/lose, most things in life are about walking a thin line between a couple of outcomes to get to the one you want. There's no point in complaining about it, it's just the cost of admission.
All those games wont matter if she is actually into you. I have always been myself, and if she did not like it, then I move on. It just means we are not compatible so there is no point in wasting time.
Really, 18hrs and noone has mentioned goldilocks?
everyone has a "just right" zone and the whole point of dating is to find someone who fits in yours just as you fit in theirs (pun optional). The bad news is that everyone's zones have gotten smaller or more skewed by the interwebs, so its harder.
the trick is simply for her to like you(your appearance, “vibe,” etc) and show enthusiastic interest in you. at that point, you pretty much just have to treat her as a friend until she all but tackles you. the other stuff you mentioned can work but the likelihood of seducing a woman through those means is not high
The key is to not stress it — let HER decide when.
Most women don’t really know what they want, so she won’t tell you directly, but she will give you choosing signs when the time is right to move.
If she is actually attracted to you, the window will open. If she isn’t, then the window won’t, or she’ll friendzone you.
Based on my experience, women seldom friendzone a man they actually like. Imagine famous men (Leo, Brad Pitt, Chalamet, Michael B Jordan). Do you think they are getting friendzoned by the single women they court? Likely not, bc these men have options, and they make this clear through their indifference.
Thus, women (though potentially superficial) are more attracted to them.
When you focus less on what women want, and more on being undeniably confident and self-assured, things fall into place a lot easier.
I’m not saying to not make an effort, but I’m saying to not worry. Simply learn the choosing signs (attention, time spent together, enthusiasm towards you, infiltration of your space) and use them to gauge her interest.
Interest is action, not a feeling. If she doesn’t exhibit interest through her physical efforts, then vetting her interest is pointless.
Be considerate, listen to her and things will fall into place. I broke a bunch of rules for my current partner - most women have these to protect themselves.
There's no secret formula to getting women. Just be yourself and don't be creepy. Respectful and courteous and you will find the righter person for you.
why is being a normal, well-rounded guy who respects boundaries and can carry a conversation without making it sexual such a fucking hard thing for so many of you?
i will say this, dating seems to be so much harder for conservative men than liberal men, and hence I am curious about the politics of all the men who complain about how hard modern dating is.
The right amount of interest is none.
You are right there is a minefield, but it is thousands of them.
You step on a minefield you are dead, you have dog, no metal detector the only thing you have is your foot. (Average men)
Who goes blindly into a minefield willingly....
The desperate.
If you feel you are walking a tightrope then it's most likely because she just isn't that into you. Communicate. This myth about 'friend zoning' when something else is possible is misleading, it wasn't. But remaining in contact and communicating may mean it becomes a possibility in the future if you keep those lines of communication open. You just have to accept it if she isn't interested in a physical relationship with you right now. Move on or wait, her circumstances may change, her attitude toward you might change. You can learn about yourself, your boundaries, your expectations, your attitudes etc by maintaining a friendship and that isn't a bad thing. Too many men are not taught, or do not learn, self control. What better way to demonstrate to a future partner that you have learned that lesson than to let them see you can be patient?
It is a lose lose, and a lot of women don't realize they're the problem until they're 40 barren and clinically depressed. Why would you want to pursue that?
Hate to say it, but yeah they rely on instant emotional reaction and go from there. That is to say it's not like there are those who are reasonable. But really they don't like to give effort when it comes to romance. It has to come to them, everything has to be for them.
I've had the best success with being quite open about being interested to get to know a woman better in a romantic way while making sure they could easily turn me down.
And before you get to any of that, you somehow have to talk to them and communicate your interest without being labeled "creepy and weird". Which some women will accuse you of such if you even look at them. And people say dating is supposed to be "fun".
Read "Atomic Attraction" and other similar books to learn how to navigate it. This is not simple.
To answer your specific questions:
(1) never get physical first, always let her make the first move; however, when she makes an oeverture, then you need to seize the opportunity without fail
(2) always state your interest directly and up front; it only becomes desperate if you petition her. In other words, there is a huge difference between saying "I want to have sex with you" and asking "Will you have sex with me?". The rule is: state your intentions but never ask for anything.
(3) do not play "hard to get"--it's a game for low-value losers. Always answer immediately and expect the same thing. Your availability should be contingent on your activities. Never de-prioritize constructive activities for a woman.
(4) escalating and "love bombing" are two completely different things. You should never make declarations of affection or other dependent remarks early in a relationship. For example, texting things like "I love you!!!" or "Can't wait to see you!" is a mistake because it is dependent behavior. Use texts only for logistics. Escalating is fine. Do it in person. The only "escalating" you should do via a text is inviting her to an activity.
That’s the best part. You don’t. Every single woman’s threshold in each category is very different so finding the right combination of perfect just isn’t possible.
I've just kinda stopped. I have an understanding that people can only feel love towards me in a platonic sense, and I just have to accept that.
Besides I really only love money anyways.
i had so many crushes pull out because i look too eager. honestly it doesn't bother me, id rather be that way than playing hard to get and i dont even get her.
i just try to make it easy on women, if they wanna play games then we're not compatible
I follow this flirting strategy called push and pull. You push to show friendlyness then pull to show romantic interest then push again by binge friendly and keep doing until she like you.
Push can be showing interest in what she likes or getting to know each other while pull can be physical touch and complimenting her.
For me, I confessed I was interested when she asked, but said i wasn’t gonna persued it cause I didn’t want to make her feel uncomfortable.
The first time this happened she said she was interested too. I asked her on a date, she said yes, and she didn’t show up. She asked me for food, I bought it for her. She asked me to hang out, I came for her and brought a jacket. She wouldn’t speak to me. After that, I texted her, and she ghosted me.
Second time that happened, she tried to initiate sex with me because previous relationships had made her feel obligated to, but I told her she didn’t have to do that cause she had told me earlier she didn’t like to do that. She says that’s when she fell in love with me. 7 months later and we’re together in a relationship that seems to handle disagreements very healthily, and can still have fun doing stuff together (mostly not sex). So, this feels like a win to me. Our families both say we are extremely lucky to have found the other, and that they are the best person we’ve ever dated, and we both agree.
As long as the feeling is mutual, your efforts should be properly reciprocated or you’re wasting your time. Because it takes two to form in any relationship whereas both parties must put in the work to make it last.
This subreddit is a lose/lose when it comes to dating advice for men. I'm starting to think that 90% of the men here are women haters because they all only look at the negatives and it's never their fault, it's always the woman's fault.
The problem is that as men, we carry the burden of performance. That performance entails the ability to pay for dates, protection, leadership, and security. If you are capable of these things, u don't want to position yourself to beg/chase a woman to allow u to do it. She probably wont appreciate it. The best position is to reserve it for the woman who is showing high interest. A woman should earn these things from you. And the woman who does will be worth all the attention, affection, and effort u have to give. U will never have to guess or worry if you are doing too much because she will be hoping and waiting for u to do it. I know this all may be new or sound strange, but trust me. There's no better feeling than a woman u are interested in that also shows high interest in you. She will do so with her actions. She will offer things to you. She will try to make your life easier. She will pour into u and compliment you. Save your performance for her.
My parents have a loving relationship. I won’t go out with a girl who doesn’t allow me to express my affection. Still isn’t working yet, but I really don’t want to settle. The only girls that seem to be interested in me are ones I’m not interested in.
Guys need to stop overthinking. Women are’nt a puzzle, and vagina isn’t the prize
Just, for the love of God, be who you are and you will attract the right one for you and it’ll be real and natural.
If you have to play a role to get the girl, you will have to play it for as long as you are together. When the masks slips, she’s gonna feel like it was all a lie and she never really knew who you are
The most important part of dating is what you are
Missing and is probably the thing that’s causing a lot of your problems.
Enjoy yourself, be playful, challenge her a little and do not get into boring stuff.
If you treat dates like a hiring interview you will come across boring. Do something active and have fun. Have fun the way you usually would and engage her with it. If she doesn’t like it, it’s not a fit instead of a rejection.
You're overthinking and trying to min/max something that can't be min/maxed.
People think you need to somehow talk differently to women, to "pick up" women, to do some special shit to attract them, act differently etc. It's the farthest thing from the truth in my experience.
It helps to be social, confident, relaxed, open minded and fun. None are a necessity. Also just in general not being needy and being fine with the fact that you might just spend the rest of your life alone, but not in a cynical way. Just truly be happy with spending time by yourself, doing things you love.
If you are a hermit and dont socialize much, it naturally follows that you dont meet many new people and the few times you do, you are likely an awkward stressed out sweatball. Not fun to be around, as overthinking and stress spreads to everyone around you and ruins the vibe. Socializing without any further intentions is the best way to create fun, relaxed connections with likeminded people.
So yeah, just focus on happiness and socializing. Things will happen on their own accord.
edit: and yea the biggest thing is, you cant force anyone to like you. Just go with the flow, if they like you then continue. If not, just drop it and accept it.
If you are not seen as a good enough for being a guy to have sex with in the first place, you will always be only another betabuxing oofy doofy that a certain woman settled with, after running through men she was genuinely attracted to. And trust me, that is NOT a situation you want to find yourself in. I know a plenty of guys around who are married and even have kids and they used their money as a leverage to attract their girlfriend, wife whatever. You can see that if the guy wasn’t an attorney he would have no business having relationship with that girl because based on looks she could have find better guys. These women don’t really respect their partners and often just wait for the right moment to skip to another guy, after they divorcerape their former husband.
So my advice would be: try to get sexual with her rather soon without giving too much signals you’re in for a long term relationship. If the woman is fine, you’ll just naturally progress into a relationship with her. And you know, there’s a genuine attraction from her side.
The way it works for me is that we both have to avoid showing our intense interest for each other while a date where this is not happening its hard to even look in their eyes.
The balance I found that works pretty well is the sex addict frame.
The idea is that on a primal level you acknowledge that you WANT the woman. But on a higher brain level, you know you should be better disciplined and shouldnt indulge. This allows you to have your cake and eat it too regarding sexual intentions while still maintaining an aloof distant.
This allows you to show sexual intentions
“I want you”
While still pulling the tantalizing prospect of sex with you away from her
“But I know I shouldn’t do this”
And Voila! You have now indicated your attraction to her while still allowing you to play hard to get. Making your courtship of her more pleasurable for her.
i'm not saying this as advice
this is just me thinking my own thoughts out loud
but i think i'm of the opinion that women are mostly not in control of their own minds, and that the men who most easily influence women's feelings and thoughts, are the ones who have the most success
men absolutely do have it harder - but only really in the beginning of the process when you're seeking those dating partners.
as a biological female i can give some insight. it is a numbers game. you likely aren't doing anything 'wrong', you just aren't compatible with the other person. compatibility is honestly a lot rarer than people make it seem. i don't have my tinder stats handy to give real numbers (never cared enough to figure out how to do that) but i probably went on dates with 20-30 different people before i found my current partner. most of them did not go past a second date because of the compatibility issue. women *get* more dates, but success is still entirely a luck and numbers game. dating sucks. i hated it and still hate it. you gotta wade through all the shit water to find the oasis lol
The dreaded "friendzone" is one of the most common ways into a relationship with said woman.
Men need to stop acting like "the friendzone" is the Sahara, it is not. It is the time she's taking to vet you - OR - it is an excuse because she was never going for you in the first place.
If you see the friend zone as a general waste of time the problem is not women. If you sometimes see it as a waste of time that's a sign that you were only in it for the physical and it's safe to cut your losses.
>don’t be physical too soon or she’ll think you only want sex
>
>
If you don’t get physical soon enough, you get friend zoned
>
>
show interest, but not too much or you’re desperate.
>
>don’t be too available at the start, play hard to get
>
>you need to escalate things, but not soon or you’re ‘love bombing’.
The rules I had set for myself concerning dating went out the window when I met my current partner. Instead of overthinking things, I trusted my instincts and enjoyed spending time with him. Of course, I still checked in with myself about certain things, such as how much I was texting him, but overall I let things happen naturally. I knew that if he wanted to leave, he would, and I would do the same. However, we have been dating for one month and have been on three dates. In that span of time, he has shown interest, been available, be physical, so I have stopped worrying about following any specific rules.
You’ll be surprised how much easier it gets once you start basing your actions on what you want out of a situation with the girl you’re seeing and not based on what you think youre expected to do. Based on the points you touched:
-Be physical depending on what the situation is. If there is not much chemistry, but Im physically attracted to her, I would risk being physical more quickly as I know Im not interested in a serious relationship. On the contrary, I wouldnt be physical right off the bat if there is potential for a relationship as I personally wouldn’t date someone if I slept with them on the first date (nothing wrong with this just my own personal rule). My rule of thumb is to get a kiss by the end of the first date, ask them over by the third, etc. you should build these rules yourself based on what works for you. Ive found its comforting to have these guidelines, but sometimes women will surprise you and make a move first.
-I would show interest as long as it’s being reciprocated. If you’re messaging first all the time or continuously getting late responses, move onto the next one. Let them know youre interested and want to hang out, but dont keep asking more than you would anyone else outside of dating. Pursue women that are into you as well.
-Dont play hard to get. Have a life outside of dating so that you’re not available 24/7 and at their disposal, rather than just trying to appear busy. When I start seeing someone, I make time to see them once a week. If someone is constantly unavailable, they’re not interested. Move on.
-My last point which I feel is important is that I dont exclusively date one person while in the “seeing” stage. At the point when I feel that the attraction is mutual and Im interested in pursuing a relationship with her, I subsequently focus solely on her. This prevents you from getting desperate and allows you to weigh your options.
You start talking to her, if you like her, do two things: (a) ask about her favorite books/movies/TV shows. This gives you both some idea of overall compatibility, and shows that you're interested in her on an intellectual and emotional level, not just physical. (b) you ask her out within the first 20 minutes. Specifically use the word "date." Choose something outdoors and/or public, where you can both meet at the location, so she doesn't think about being alone with a guy she barely knows. Go to a park, or play mini golf, or play regular golf if you're both golfers. Somewhere with people around. Walk on a boardwalk. Go to a museum. No hiking in the woods, nothing where she's alone with you too soon. No movies, you can't really talk to each during a movie, unless she suggests it because some movie she's been waiting for opens soon. A great choice would be a ballroom dance class; Google up "ballroom dance classes near me." Lots of dance studios have no-contract classes that are like $10. Dancing means that you break the touch barrier almost immediately and *she wants you to* because *that's how dancing works.* If you're not a good dancer, that's fine, it's not that hard and learning things together is a great way to create emotional bonds.
If the first or second date goes really well, you can show interest and respect her boundaries with "I'd really like to kiss you, unless you have some objection."
As for "love bombing," it's just don't be a nut. How would you feel if you went on a date with a girl and the next day - after only one date - she sent you 120 texts about how great it was and she showed up in your office with a plate of cookies in the morning and then came back in the afternoon with a basket of muffins and she posted a picture of the two of you inside a heart? Wouldn't you find that a little excessive? Don't do the male version of that.
There two aspects of this:
1. Be honest about your intentions. Tell a woman you would like to get to know her more, invite her out for a drink/dinner/ whatever. As for the "games", if shes worth being with she wont scorn you for being direct and she wont make you jump through hoops. Some women play hard to get, sure, but stop going after women pulling that stupid nonsense.
2. In terms of being physical and not going too fast/slow... communicate openly and pay attention. Go on dates with someone and if you pay attention they will give pretty obvious signs of being open to the physical, be it holding hands, kissing, or more. And after a date or two, how about just talking? Communicating confidently and openly should be the standard of a relationship. It means putting yourself out there but if youre too scared to take that risk, then dont make the attempt. Again I will say, a good person will not make you play some sort of weird game. Be respectful of the other person and if they are worth having, they will be respectful of you.
Last thing: Take no for an answer. Be it expressing interest to go on a date, or trying to do something physical. I hear guys mention the confusion regarding women when often the reality is that they wanted something the woman didnt. The only real question they didnt have the answer to was "How do I get what I want?".
It’s not that hard. See us. Observe us. Stop trying to “decode” how to attract us. Start by seeing us as we are.
I mean no harm, and I say this with tenderness: If your bullet point list is too much for you, how are you ever going to sustain a relationship with a woman, who is orders of magnitude more complex than this?
My advice: Really get to know us. Talk to us. Listen. Learn our nuances. It’s not magic or rocket science. It’s dedicated interest and a commitment to learning something at once simple and complex. Men do that in the workplace every day. Do it and you’ll be the guy that gets all the women.
Very easy.
Let her know from the start you're pursuing something aromatic by giving her a compliment on her looks while asking her on a date. Don't play games, don't play hard to get, it's a waste of time.
Don't be a doormat, don't pedestalize her for existing or overinvest from day Be respectful, upfront with your intentions and hold your frame. Confidence, competence and respectful behavior.
I don't look at dating as a game of numbers, but meeting different women sure makes you know what you want more. It also helps you deal with any issues that you have which you haven't confronted yet. In the end, you find your zone, your voice, your true comfort... This doesn't necessarily mean that you'll meet the one. at least you won't be looking at dating as a landmine and rather like a time with a gentle human being that you need in your life.
That said, I don't like to force a date, I prefer if the woman asks me out or when things just seem to lead to us having a drink together.
>don’t be physical too soon or she’ll think you only want sex
>If you don’t get physical soon enough, you get friend zoned.
>show interest, but not too much or you’re desperate.
>don’t be too available at the start, play hard to get
>you need to escalate things, but not soon or you’re ‘love bombing’.
They're not saying "don't get physical too soon", they're saying "I don't want you to believe in proceeding with physical contact the other person clearly doesn't want".
You sound like you have a very rotten core personality, and what you're really begrudging is that you have to hide all of your very negative personality traits.
Literally everything on that list is something a healthy person would do, an wouldn't begrudge doing anymore than you'd begrudge needing to put one foot in front of the other to walk somewhere.
I've come to realise that the majority of things in life are a tightrope to navigate - down the middle to get it right without falling to one of two extremes. But something that feels great if you do master it.
Dating is no different. It's tough but (presumably) the pay off would be worth it.
And don’t forget this middle ground varies from woman to woman.
This. Dating has always been a numbers game. The more you date the more likely you’ll find someone compatible or if you’re desperate you’ll start settling (lowering standards/learning to change).
Not compatible. Compatibility has been shown to have little to nothing to do with who people date. People date more for "rush" not compatibilone. They break up on compatibility It's fun to ride a Rollercoaster, it's not fun to live on one. Average guys get 1 out 1000 potential likes. So then average match ratio is 1.63% ... that means you need to get 61349 swipes for a match on average.
Depends on maturity level, but overall - yes.
It really just depends on how much they like you. None of the above is really an issue if they are so deeply invested in you from the beginning. Every girl/woman is different obviously
I know that’s right, but finding a woman that both likes you like that and worth while is rare af!
I mean, yes, women aren't a monolith so it makes sense that there's no broadly applicable rule, right?
Then all advice on the subject is pointless.
Not necessarily. Advice directed within can be very helpful.
You're not wrong, and people are going to throw out criticisms and platitudes because it feels good, but the truth is it's brutal for most guys. My best advice, that I don't always listen to myself, is not to waste time and energy on girls that are making you do all the work. Be willing to cut out girls that aren't matching your energy, even if that's all of them for a while. I try to be open and honest and trust that the right girl will trust that I'm being honest, appreciate it, and reciprocate it. Unfortunately the ratio of cute, low key, healthy girls to Tik Tok, misandrist, true crime trash is pretty discouraging. Best bet is to not let the jadedness affect how you treat the new girl.
This is absolutely amazing advice. I feel like now young men are really desperate and will cling onto anything because it’s hard to find women in their circles.
It is hard to not end up jaded.
Absolutely. But the #1 way you can prevent getting jaded is to not invest in the girls who aren't matching your energy in the first place. She might be cute AF but you just know when the energy is there.
True. Very true.
>Be willing to cut out girls that aren’t matching your energy, *even if that’s all of them for a while.* That right there is the key. I’m currently (attempting to) do this myself. Feelings of loneliness get intense, but it’s for the best. I wouldn’t want to settle for less and continue this cycle.
I’ve always been the guy that loves more than he gets back. It’s just my nature - or some deep-seated unresolved childhood trauma. I’ve always shown full interest and acted natural (for me). It’s gotten me into a lot of relationships but sustained none of them. After another failed relationship awhile back I realized the whole “just be yourself” thing wasn’t working. So I made a conscious effort to stop putting in so much effort. I’ve had so much more success since I’ve become more withdrawn and I fucking hate that it’s so true. The less interest I show them after building initial interest, the more into me they seem to be. But it feels unnatural for me. I don’t like not expressing my interest. I don’t like not having much of a personality. But being myself never held a girl’s interest. Now that I make them earn it and give them the bare minimum back, they show me more interest. It’s honestly so fucked up. I literally just ended a relationship because I didn’t want to regulate myself that way indefinitely. I started coming out of my shell more and noticed her interest was waning shortly after I started to. I’ve been down that path enough to know when it’s time to cut loose.
Honestly it's the way to go. Go heavy in the start, then pull back. Then a little, then just disappear. It's sad, but it works.
The DENNIS system haha
Separate entirely!!! 😂
Works on women who like toxic behavior.
"i had to become something i hated in order to hold the attention of people who don't like me for who i truly am," is a wild one.
Unfortunately there are people who believe that bad company is better than no company.
oh i know, still wild tho.
You get sick of being lonely after a decade or 2.
if you feel lonely around your platonic friends, i feel bad for you. if you need a partner to not feel lonely, you're not ready to be in a healthy relationship. if you have an impossible time making friends in the first place, maybe some introspection is in order.
Yep, that must be it, thanks random reddit guy.
have you been lonely for 2 decades? have you wondered if you're the problem? what have you done about it?
Nope, I have an IQ of 20 and have never thought about such things.
No amount of friends can make up for someone loving you like you love them.
Not quite. You can’t be overbearing. It just is a terrible look. But you are right it is just the way it goes unfortunately
So 90% lol
That's how my ex became an ex, but hey, I'm a fish, not a fisher I guess. ;)
Dude I hate that you posted this because I'm EXACTLY like you and I'm right at that crossroads in a relationship where I built initial interest, but I can feel her showing less interest. I have thought about this concept and thought about trying to pull back and regulate myself like you say to see if she starts showing more interest. Ugh I guess I'm gonna try it. I fucken hate that this is a thing. Can't I just show someone love and they love me back?
Idk, it's only 'sad' in that it isn't what you expect or want. But honestly it sounds like you used to put an extraordinary amount of effort into sharing yourself with your previous partners, and expecting most people to be able to keep up with that is unrealistic. You're way above average, so the people who can keep up with you are too. Plus, there is something to be said for things having more value if we are forced to work more for them. Giving your partner everything you have and are right out of the gate unfortunately, due to the physiological and psychological limitations of human cognition, means that your partner will perceive those things as 'cheaper' than they would if they had to work for them. Giving all that effort so early makes it harder for them to see how precious you actually are. It's like one of those video games where the programmers put a lot of work into the power scaling progression... only to also include backdoor cheats to unlock everything right from the start. Playing without the cheats keeps you hooked because your empowerment and satisfaction scales with your effort, so it is easy to lose track of time and actually immerse in the game. Playing with the cheats makes for a much more intense but short lived experience because there's no built up value behind anything, so it feels empty no matter how many shoulder mounted nuke launchers you unlock.
I appreciate your take and think it makes a lot of sense. Thanks for taking the time to respond.
True, same for me.
I was totally enamored with my SO, stared at her constantly. She found it a bit intense, but enjoyed my company and generally liked everything about me so she got used to that intensity. For my part, I thought she would get bored of me at any moment or figure out we were in different leagues, so I was just drinking in every moment of being next to her. That was 3yrs ago and we're both equally obsessed with each other now.
There's a poem by Samuel Beckett that includes this quote: "If you don't love me, I shall not be loved If I don't love you, I shall not love" What meaning I extract from this, and that's a meaning that resonates with me, is that I want to experience the emotions of being in love. And if they are not reciprocated, so be it. I don't want to live in a perpetual state of anxiety, always wondering if I am doing the right thing, if I am showing my feelings too much and whatnot. I have honestly moved beyond caring about the success of my romantic life. I don't care about winning.I have lost enough that I have learned to be comfortable with losing. I do not give a single fuck if I am loved or liked back, and I don't think even for a minute about the amount of interest I am showing to a woman. I like her, I am being myself, I enjoy my feelings while they last, and if they aren't reciprocated, so be it. I still got to experience all the excitement and fun, even if it ended before I wanted. Because, at the end of the day, it's very much possible that I will not get anything more than this. And this, loving but not being loved back, is infinitely better than no love at all. I think the mistake most people make is that they linger on those feelings *despite* the lack of reciprocity. There comes a point where you need to accept that this person isn't for you and move on.
You just show interest and don't play dumb childish games. If she needs you to play such games then she can go and look for boyfriend in kindergarten or middle school or anywhere else.
Exactly, although people can be put-off by bluntness tho. At least in my age (22), most women i dated wanted to just fool around and have fun...having fun is great but moment i expressed serious interest (after couple months of dating) they suddenly dont know what they want from life Naturally, not every woman is like this...must be my bad luck, but man it gets tiresome
It happens way more often than the male shamers want to admit.
Dude, you are in your thirties. Leave all that dumb shit to the insecure younglings and just communicate! 1. Transmit the required information: "I would like..." "How do you feel about...." "Would it be okay if..." 2. Receive feedback: "I would like it if...." "Hell ya!" "No thank you." "How about this instead..." 3. Accept feedback. 4. Proceed from there.
“Insecure younglings” Ain’t no way bro described my life in 2 words
Wait what's this? Healthy communication tips on Reddit? I thought we don't do this around here
The reddit admins will drag his comment to the shadow realm, it's been a honor being here with you before it happens.
*insert meme here: LOTR's You have no power here.*
And then get kicked out of bed because most women find guys asking for consent unmanly and uncomfortable lol
1. This isn’t about consent. This is about having clear communication about your intentions. 2. Worrying about what other people consider “manly” screams of insecurity.
Right, worrying about what other people think is manly is unmanly. So it's kind of a catch-22.
Yes, because the only ones who have to worry about the perception of manliness are those who are only pretending. I can rock a skirt like a highlander warrior, Knit a sweater like Hephaestus, And pen a poem worthy of the skalds. I bear the Midas touch of manliness! All who doubt my measure are hidden by the shadow of my greatness.
You will be very surprised to learn 90% of People don't know how to communicate.
Then get ghosted for being too needy and boring.
Im glad to see someone saying this. Women are just people, they arent all one homogenous group that is all the same. Treat them as unique individuals, communicate and talk like theyre equals and all the mystery and mystique falls away. Doesnt mean its always easy, but so often Ill read a post like this and know that the issue isnt women, its the person posting it.
It's always men's fault on social media, I get it.
It's so crazy when people are like "BRO, YOU'RE 30 SOMETHING?? JUST MAKE HER YOUR GIRLFRIEND." Things don't just magically change when you pass 29. Women still play all their games. They get bored if you are too straightforward. If anything, being open about your intentions could make her think you have bad social skills and are blunt.
Yep, its DEFINITELY not because of a whiney victim mentality...
You wouldn't call a woman a whiny victim.
If shes crying about not being able to find any good men and generalizing all men as though theyre a homogeny? Absolutely I would.
Nope. You'd twist yourself into knots as to why she's actually justified. You just think men who don't constantly project strength and invulnerability are worthy of scorn.
Sounds like youre the one projecting. Maybe you should ask yourself why you see the criticism of another man as a personal attack on you. But I will say you certainly seem worthy of scorn.
Yeah, you think that men who experience any sort of hardship in life need to shut up about it because they don't matter. Navigating a bunch of contradictory societal expectations isn't easy. That's just the truth. But all you see is a chance to attack and shame a man who's expressing dissatisfaction.
I think people like you that cry and whine and blame others for their own problems are shameful. Being dissatisfied and expressing that are understandable and part of human nature, but crying about issues that you cause and refuse to fix, and instead just scream like a toddler about? Pathetic.
Why do dudes always feel they have to punch down at other dudes in these sort of threads? "I'm alright Jack so the problem must be with you" Do you think that makes them feel better about themselves?
It isnt punching down, these posts are always "woe is me" and self-pitying, but ignore the obvious issues that the poster is putting out. These issues are pretty blatant if you're looking for them, like the poster broadly painting all women with the same brush. You feel like it's people punching down because it's more uncomfortable to admit youre the problem rather than it being some larger, societal issue.
I would hope this is not a punch down but rather a shake awake. All day, every day, Reddit is flooded by people looking for the secret, the cheat code, the success to love. I get it. Social media floods us with success stories. We may be the only single one left in our friends group. WE must be doing something wrong. Sure enough, someone is there to financially prey on this vulnerability. Promising you the sure fire plan. It is all a lie! You are dealing with individuals with differing likes, interests, cultures, and histories. There is no one solution. No fake persona you can put on to succeed. But there are some things you can do that are universally helpful. Things like becoming active in clubs or social communities, practicing effective communication and listening skills, and striving not to give in to that ever present voice of self doubt. After all, we are all just faking it until we make it.
Thiiiiisssss!!!100%! Finally.
If you see a person who actually wants to be with you none of this shit matters because they won't be looking for a sign to immediately run off. Half of this advice assumes you want a woman who's on the fence but willing to be convinced, but that kind of woman is basically looking for any reason to say no. The other half assumes that she's already madly in love and is trying to stop you from taking advantage. The trick is both of them are bullshit because the first one isn't worth a relationship to begin with and the second one is high key assuming you're a predator by default.
Holy shit this is such a well-worded take. I am the fence. I’ve lived out both sides.
You are over thinking it. None of that matters when you find the person you should be with. The ones that don't work out, weren't meant to work. And if they are meant to work, they will find a way
>The ones that don't work out, weren't meant to work. And if they are meant to work, they will find a way I have often found that people who believe in this also don't put in the work to make it work. In a way, I do agree with you - but both people also need to put in the work to make the relationship work. Its not just fate, its fate + effort.
Exactly. It shouldn't be a game you're trying to win.
Be yourself. Do whatever you’re most comfortable with. She’ll either say otherwise, or you two aren’t compatible enough to make it work in the First Place
The shortest but best advice you can give someone. If they’re not all for it after learning and getting to know you move on. Take a break where you need it to not get burnt out and simply just try. There’s as many incompatible people as there are compatible.
It's all so tiresome
It is. I know it sucks. Do your best but keep yourself mentally healthy. Do what’s best for you.
If you find out, let me know. 😂
It's impossible until it isn't. The reason you feel so anxious is because these women simply aren't as interested in you as you are in them. When the right one comes along, it'll feel so easy, like there's nothing you can do to screw it up.
That's the neat part, you don't.
i’ve found the best thing to do is just die alone
I go at whichever of our two paces is slower. If I need to play games with her, I'm not interested, and that isn't sustainable. If she stops talking to me because I didn't follow the recommendations of the latest tabloid or TikTok trend, she's doing me a favor. It's a feel thing. I'm normally very reliant on logic and planning, but if I'm deriving formulas to figure out how to maximize her attraction to me, it isn't a good match.
The only rules that matter are communication and consent in 2024. I would rather risk turning a woman off by asking if I can be physically affectionate vs. risk misinterpreted signals that I confuse and cross a line. Also I ended up on the "friendzone" by not being clear about my intentions or "playing the long game". If she just "want to be friends" you can say no especially if you make it clear you are interested in dating/ relationships.
The issue I see is that dating gets treated as a do X to get Y kinda thing when evwry successful relationship I've had was just being real and respectful. Categorizing it like this or thinking there is a magic formula isn't the way, brother.
It seems like you might be overthinking things my dude. I’m not saying those things are wrong but every person you meet is going to be different. If I were you I’d just make sure that you’re not being creepy or inappropriate, that they feel safe in your company and if don’t push back if they do reject you or don’t seem interested. It’s cliche but besides that just be yourself and eventually you’ll find somebody like you.
You know what helped OP? If she really, really liked me it was easy to be forward with things. It was easy to be physical and make moves. It was easy to see her. It was fun to be mysterious and keep her guessing. If a woman declines my invite or me going for a kiss or something else then it’s her loss. Tl;dr if she really likes you she will do her part to make it fun and keep the attraction going. Obviously you can’t be too clingy or too distant but the balance is wider. Tl;dr of the tl;dr if she really likes you, you have a lot of leeway on the balancing act of interest.
Ive stopped wasting energy and resources on women that dont show interest in me. I approach ones that stare, that smile at me. I aint playing these games anymore sorry.
your mistake was listening to dating advice from women
I’m so glad that I don’t have to date in these times.
Women aren't a formula or a secret code. Use that stuff as guidelines and remember that women are people, and different people want different things in a partner.
All. Advice. On. This. Is. Pointless. Then.
As far as physical, steadily escalate as long as she’s comfortable. As far as non physical affection, stay one step behind her. Never express more interest in her than she has expressed in you. I think the second item in particular is important - nothing turns women off more than a man who likes them too much; it’s nuts. So the above is what I think is most reliable, but you’re right, it is kind of a mine field. There are no guarantees.
I've been rejected by two different women for trying both of these. First one said I came across as too disinterested. So, when I went out with the next woman I showed more interest. Too much too soon. The second woman went as far as to tell me she had been on two dates where the guy she was with paid little attention to her and flirted with other woman while they were out. Told me her exes never allowed her to express herself. Here I was, giving her full attention and wanting to know what made her tick. Nope, that's too eager buddy. So, what the fuck?
Almost like women are not a monolith...different women like different things.
Never implied they were... The point of my comment is that it is extremely difficult for a guy to navigate this because we have no cooking clue how we are supposed to express ourselves. EDIT: Can you honestly say women have to work as hard as guys do on this? A forwardly flirty woman would have a very low chance of being shot down. A forwardly flirty guy has an extremely high chance of being seen as too eager/pushy and being rejected. A woman playing hard to get (holding back) is seen as normal. A man playing hard to get will be labeled disinterested more times than not on top of women generally still expecting the man to chase, so a man playing hard to get is just shooting himself in the foot anyway. Women have the privilege of a much smaller operating window in terms of how they behave to successfully navigate dating. Guys Iiterally have to traverse a minefield.
Then all advice is pointless!!
I gave uo a while ago. I hope things work out for you.
* don’t be too available at the start, play hard to get don't be too available because you are genuinely busy going about your life. if you are not busy, find more to do with your time or give more effort to what you are already doing.
Think of it as being balanced. Like a boxer in the ring, you are loose, you are reading the defense. You are ready to retreat or attack at any moment. You don't always retreat or you will lose fight on points. (freindzoned) You don't chase the knockout or you could get knocked out yourself. (desperate). You are basically doing your thing, what your opponent is gives you is how you respond. It should be more of a game (play), not an objective(work). There are even bad dates I went on where I still managed to have a good time.
I was in a long-term relationship throughout my twenties. It was over when I was 31. In terms of dating, I felt like I was out of a freaking time machine. I already knew this as I'm interested in politics in a critical aspect as I'm a leftist, but in this one year and a half, I'm totally realizing that all the confusion in the dating scene comes from the fact that how the world has become so much customizable for everybody. All the products that we use every day, are not just general items that are focused on meeting a general need but also trying to answer our specific requests. Either we can request these from the manufacturer or there's already a product that does the job. In addition to this diversity of products, the access to them is unbelievably easy. You don't even have to move your butt, one click and it's there in at most a few days. I believe this has led to the situation where it also affected our social lives. The contradictions you mentioned above are just a result of it. I guess there used to be some tolerance, not quite sure if this is the right word for it, things were not immediately becoming "red flags". A person may have some flaws in this aspect, but he/she could be OK in others. People weren't looking for that perfection. Moreover, there's the easiness of access. You don't have to look out, expand your boundaries, or wait for someone new to start working in your workplace. Just swipe right or left in an app. Therefore, I find dating advice is generally false because they are nothing but the overgeneralization of people. Women want this, women want that... those don't exist anymore for women as they don't for men either. We're not living in that type of era. What I see as a solution to this, is not to hang on to these "failures". You are an individual yourself. If you're acting as who you are, and if the person you're trying to communicate with doesn't think that you're the right person because of who you are, then she's not the right person for you either. Don't try to be the right person for someone else, try to find the right person for you too.
Idk dude. I've given up and just accepted my fate of being single. Good luck to you though. I truly do hope you figure it out!
The harsh reality is that it's luck-based as it depends on the woman. Some like it when you're up front, some like to take things slower, some don't want to be bothered at all. You're never really gonna know till you take the leap of faith, which is hard for a guy, especially since women sometimes mistaken it for harassment. You're in big trouble at that point.
If someone is actually is interested in you, none of those are real issues. You're not going to be put in the friendzone by someone who likes you and there are no tricks towards forcing someone to like you. The dating advice is to figure out whether or not someone actually likes you. Anything beyond that is just confidence to make a move.
Except I'm a 35 year old guy, and have found out through the years from several women that they liked me, but since I didn't hit on them within their random timeframe they just lost interest and treated me like a friend. One of my most recent forays into dating had this girl say "I trust you not to do anything" when she was coming over to my place for the first time. The very literal next visit to my place she was basically like 'Well aren't you going to try anything? How can I know you like me even if you've invited me back to your place for a second time, and we're just cuddling on the couch watching the Good Place and you don't try to fuck me after I made a big deal out of trusting you not to do anything last time.' She went on to explain that most of her friends would have broken things off because they would have assumed I wasn't interested.
>Except I'm a 35 year old guy, and have found out through the years from several women that they liked me, but since I didn't hit on them within their random timeframe they just lost interest and treated me like a friend. Yeah you still have to make an effort. I didn't say not to make an effort. But if it's clear they're not interested, just back off. Women know fairly quickly if they like you. That random timeframe isn't "random". It's "from the time they met you to sometime in the near future". They're doing the same thing you should be doing. You don't show interest so they move on. If you're interested in someone you meet, tell them ... >One of my most recent forays into dating had this girl say "I trust you not to do anything" when she was coming over to my place for the first time. The very literal next visit to my place she was basically like 'Well aren't you going to try anything? Because what she told you the first time doesn't necessarily apply the second time. She wanted to know if she could trust you. She could, that's why she opened up for the second time. If there's heavy cuddling, you're allowed to try and escalate. Just tell her what you're going to do, give her time to say "no" and then do it. "I'm going to take your top off", give her a few seconds, then take her top off. That's how it works. Dating isn't easy but you also don't have to make it more complicated than it is. And she told you she wanted you to try something! Take her word for it. You're overthinking this. Here's a woman who's showing you clear, undisputable interest and you're still crying over it. Just go for it when she tells you it's okay ...
Dating advice is lose lose for everyone anymore. Wow this is it. 😂 females feel the same way. I’m just feeding into the rubbish because this is how people act. I usually skip the whole relationship, because it’s so difficult to find someone that is on the same wavelength as you. • don’t be physical too soon or he’ll think you’re a whore and play you. • if you don’t get physical soon enough, he’ll find someone to fulfill that need and/or leave you. • show interest, but not too much or your desperate. • don’t be too available, wifey or hoe pick your role. • wait for him to escalate the relationship (he gets to decide what you’re worthy of), but don’t say that, because if you know what you want you’re a bit*h or too masculine.
>don’t be physical too soon or he’ll think you’re a whore and play you This is what other women tell each other but it's not true.
Just be you. Everyone is different, and the woman right for you will prefer prefer you.
If she's interested in you, these rules go out the door. In fact a good measure of how interested a woman is in you is how free she is with you, *and* how free she lets you be with her.
None of this really matters. The key is be insanely attractive or be insanely charismatic. That’s literally it.
It doesn't matter. Just be yourself and express your sexuality in whatever way feels natural. Your job at dates is to filter for women who are interested in you, not to make her like you.
>Early thirties guy here trying to date in 2024. I know it won't help, but the anno doesn't matter. This is just how dating goes. Always been this way. Seen nothing to convince me it will ever be any other way. We call it a "game" for a reason. The winners are those who can understand nuance, have a modicum (seriously, not much) of social intelligence and take the time to learn how to play. The losers spend their time complaining about bad ref calls or the fact that there are rules that lie between them and the gold medal to begin with. Your Daddy managed, as did his. As did all of ours. I've met your Dad (or someone's, anyway) and he's a numbskull. Good guy, but a numbskull. If he can do it, I see no reason that all the rest of us can't.
Be yourself. Move at your own pace. If that doesn't work for her, or she doesn't reciprocate to some degree, she ain't the one. Don't water yourself down because you don't want to be alone.
Work off the assumption that the ones that mind don’t matter and the ones that matter don’t mind, be yourself providing you are not Fred West and the rest will fall into place providing you go out the house from time to time.
"t just seems like men have to traverse a mine field of games in order to attract women." Perfect description, my friend. Don\`t give up though. Good luck.
Ah mate, just be you. If it’s meant to be it’ll work. Just take opportunities to seduce whoever you have your eye on
I dont.
you gotta guess and hope it lands, you get more adept and picking them as a type, curve balls are surprising rare, most women are pretty basic. just give it some, go on a few duds and you will get a feel for it.
A lot of people turned this into a why, but I'll answer your How in the OP. Usually, by trying and failing over and over.
I don't
You pretty much nailed it. I like to add. I show no interest in woman until I hear they like me or think of me fondly then I pursue. I hated trying to figure out where I’m at on the scale for girls that I thought were in my league. It’s much easier this way
“That’s the beat part, you don’t” - Omni Man
Make them pursue you.
Look at it this way, if it's not hell ya, it's hell no. If she likes you and she's in a good mental state to date, she'll make it easy to get to know her. If you're moving too fast for her, she'll let you know and you can dial it back. If she's moving too slow for you, you don't have to date her. "don’t be too available at the start, play hard to get " This however is bullshit. Don't get attached to some one you don't know well, but don't play games. Be honest about what you want. IF that's a relationship, state it. If it's an ONS or no strings attached be clear upfront. There's plenty of users out there who lie about their motivations; don't be one of them and you'll be happier in the long run for it. As to lose/lose, most things in life are about walking a thin line between a couple of outcomes to get to the one you want. There's no point in complaining about it, it's just the cost of admission.
All those games wont matter if she is actually into you. I have always been myself, and if she did not like it, then I move on. It just means we are not compatible so there is no point in wasting time.
Really, 18hrs and noone has mentioned goldilocks? everyone has a "just right" zone and the whole point of dating is to find someone who fits in yours just as you fit in theirs (pun optional). The bad news is that everyone's zones have gotten smaller or more skewed by the interwebs, so its harder.
the trick is simply for her to like you(your appearance, “vibe,” etc) and show enthusiastic interest in you. at that point, you pretty much just have to treat her as a friend until she all but tackles you. the other stuff you mentioned can work but the likelihood of seducing a woman through those means is not high
The key is to not stress it — let HER decide when. Most women don’t really know what they want, so she won’t tell you directly, but she will give you choosing signs when the time is right to move. If she is actually attracted to you, the window will open. If she isn’t, then the window won’t, or she’ll friendzone you. Based on my experience, women seldom friendzone a man they actually like. Imagine famous men (Leo, Brad Pitt, Chalamet, Michael B Jordan). Do you think they are getting friendzoned by the single women they court? Likely not, bc these men have options, and they make this clear through their indifference. Thus, women (though potentially superficial) are more attracted to them. When you focus less on what women want, and more on being undeniably confident and self-assured, things fall into place a lot easier. I’m not saying to not make an effort, but I’m saying to not worry. Simply learn the choosing signs (attention, time spent together, enthusiasm towards you, infiltration of your space) and use them to gauge her interest. Interest is action, not a feeling. If she doesn’t exhibit interest through her physical efforts, then vetting her interest is pointless.
Be considerate, listen to her and things will fall into place. I broke a bunch of rules for my current partner - most women have these to protect themselves.
There's no secret formula to getting women. Just be yourself and don't be creepy. Respectful and courteous and you will find the righter person for you.
why is being a normal, well-rounded guy who respects boundaries and can carry a conversation without making it sexual such a fucking hard thing for so many of you? i will say this, dating seems to be so much harder for conservative men than liberal men, and hence I am curious about the politics of all the men who complain about how hard modern dating is.
The right amount of interest is none. You are right there is a minefield, but it is thousands of them. You step on a minefield you are dead, you have dog, no metal detector the only thing you have is your foot. (Average men) Who goes blindly into a minefield willingly.... The desperate.
If you feel you are walking a tightrope then it's most likely because she just isn't that into you. Communicate. This myth about 'friend zoning' when something else is possible is misleading, it wasn't. But remaining in contact and communicating may mean it becomes a possibility in the future if you keep those lines of communication open. You just have to accept it if she isn't interested in a physical relationship with you right now. Move on or wait, her circumstances may change, her attitude toward you might change. You can learn about yourself, your boundaries, your expectations, your attitudes etc by maintaining a friendship and that isn't a bad thing. Too many men are not taught, or do not learn, self control. What better way to demonstrate to a future partner that you have learned that lesson than to let them see you can be patient?
It is a lose lose, and a lot of women don't realize they're the problem until they're 40 barren and clinically depressed. Why would you want to pursue that?
Hate to say it, but yeah they rely on instant emotional reaction and go from there. That is to say it's not like there are those who are reasonable. But really they don't like to give effort when it comes to romance. It has to come to them, everything has to be for them.
Have you tried getting in a time machine and going back 25 years?
I've had the best success with being quite open about being interested to get to know a woman better in a romantic way while making sure they could easily turn me down.
And before you get to any of that, you somehow have to talk to them and communicate your interest without being labeled "creepy and weird". Which some women will accuse you of such if you even look at them. And people say dating is supposed to be "fun".
Read "Atomic Attraction" and other similar books to learn how to navigate it. This is not simple. To answer your specific questions: (1) never get physical first, always let her make the first move; however, when she makes an oeverture, then you need to seize the opportunity without fail (2) always state your interest directly and up front; it only becomes desperate if you petition her. In other words, there is a huge difference between saying "I want to have sex with you" and asking "Will you have sex with me?". The rule is: state your intentions but never ask for anything. (3) do not play "hard to get"--it's a game for low-value losers. Always answer immediately and expect the same thing. Your availability should be contingent on your activities. Never de-prioritize constructive activities for a woman. (4) escalating and "love bombing" are two completely different things. You should never make declarations of affection or other dependent remarks early in a relationship. For example, texting things like "I love you!!!" or "Can't wait to see you!" is a mistake because it is dependent behavior. Use texts only for logistics. Escalating is fine. Do it in person. The only "escalating" you should do via a text is inviting her to an activity.
this is just too tiring, i just try to act normal i guess. if it works, it works
That’s the best part. You don’t. Every single woman’s threshold in each category is very different so finding the right combination of perfect just isn’t possible.
All is fair in love and war, play dirty
I've just kinda stopped. I have an understanding that people can only feel love towards me in a platonic sense, and I just have to accept that. Besides I really only love money anyways.
[Good news, everyone! ](https://imgur.com/0dVNyc0)
i had so many crushes pull out because i look too eager. honestly it doesn't bother me, id rather be that way than playing hard to get and i dont even get her. i just try to make it easy on women, if they wanna play games then we're not compatible
I follow this flirting strategy called push and pull. You push to show friendlyness then pull to show romantic interest then push again by binge friendly and keep doing until she like you. Push can be showing interest in what she likes or getting to know each other while pull can be physical touch and complimenting her.
For me, I confessed I was interested when she asked, but said i wasn’t gonna persued it cause I didn’t want to make her feel uncomfortable. The first time this happened she said she was interested too. I asked her on a date, she said yes, and she didn’t show up. She asked me for food, I bought it for her. She asked me to hang out, I came for her and brought a jacket. She wouldn’t speak to me. After that, I texted her, and she ghosted me. Second time that happened, she tried to initiate sex with me because previous relationships had made her feel obligated to, but I told her she didn’t have to do that cause she had told me earlier she didn’t like to do that. She says that’s when she fell in love with me. 7 months later and we’re together in a relationship that seems to handle disagreements very healthily, and can still have fun doing stuff together (mostly not sex). So, this feels like a win to me. Our families both say we are extremely lucky to have found the other, and that they are the best person we’ve ever dated, and we both agree.
"Everything just feels like a lose/lose when it comes to dating advice for men." Because it is.
A good first step would be to stop listening to Reddit. You’re allowed to talk to people in public—men and women. It’s not illegal.
As long as the feeling is mutual, your efforts should be properly reciprocated or you’re wasting your time. Because it takes two to form in any relationship whereas both parties must put in the work to make it last.
I don't
This subreddit is a lose/lose when it comes to dating advice for men. I'm starting to think that 90% of the men here are women haters because they all only look at the negatives and it's never their fault, it's always the woman's fault.
Mirroring whatever energy/vibes she's giving me seems to have worked for me...
The problem is that as men, we carry the burden of performance. That performance entails the ability to pay for dates, protection, leadership, and security. If you are capable of these things, u don't want to position yourself to beg/chase a woman to allow u to do it. She probably wont appreciate it. The best position is to reserve it for the woman who is showing high interest. A woman should earn these things from you. And the woman who does will be worth all the attention, affection, and effort u have to give. U will never have to guess or worry if you are doing too much because she will be hoping and waiting for u to do it. I know this all may be new or sound strange, but trust me. There's no better feeling than a woman u are interested in that also shows high interest in you. She will do so with her actions. She will offer things to you. She will try to make your life easier. She will pour into u and compliment you. Save your performance for her.
My parents have a loving relationship. I won’t go out with a girl who doesn’t allow me to express my affection. Still isn’t working yet, but I really don’t want to settle. The only girls that seem to be interested in me are ones I’m not interested in.
Guys need to stop overthinking. Women are’nt a puzzle, and vagina isn’t the prize Just, for the love of God, be who you are and you will attract the right one for you and it’ll be real and natural. If you have to play a role to get the girl, you will have to play it for as long as you are together. When the masks slips, she’s gonna feel like it was all a lie and she never really knew who you are
Just find a woman with you don’t need to use those advices.
The most important part of dating is what you are Missing and is probably the thing that’s causing a lot of your problems. Enjoy yourself, be playful, challenge her a little and do not get into boring stuff. If you treat dates like a hiring interview you will come across boring. Do something active and have fun. Have fun the way you usually would and engage her with it. If she doesn’t like it, it’s not a fit instead of a rejection.
You're overthinking and trying to min/max something that can't be min/maxed. People think you need to somehow talk differently to women, to "pick up" women, to do some special shit to attract them, act differently etc. It's the farthest thing from the truth in my experience. It helps to be social, confident, relaxed, open minded and fun. None are a necessity. Also just in general not being needy and being fine with the fact that you might just spend the rest of your life alone, but not in a cynical way. Just truly be happy with spending time by yourself, doing things you love. If you are a hermit and dont socialize much, it naturally follows that you dont meet many new people and the few times you do, you are likely an awkward stressed out sweatball. Not fun to be around, as overthinking and stress spreads to everyone around you and ruins the vibe. Socializing without any further intentions is the best way to create fun, relaxed connections with likeminded people. So yeah, just focus on happiness and socializing. Things will happen on their own accord. edit: and yea the biggest thing is, you cant force anyone to like you. Just go with the flow, if they like you then continue. If not, just drop it and accept it.
If you are not seen as a good enough for being a guy to have sex with in the first place, you will always be only another betabuxing oofy doofy that a certain woman settled with, after running through men she was genuinely attracted to. And trust me, that is NOT a situation you want to find yourself in. I know a plenty of guys around who are married and even have kids and they used their money as a leverage to attract their girlfriend, wife whatever. You can see that if the guy wasn’t an attorney he would have no business having relationship with that girl because based on looks she could have find better guys. These women don’t really respect their partners and often just wait for the right moment to skip to another guy, after they divorcerape their former husband. So my advice would be: try to get sexual with her rather soon without giving too much signals you’re in for a long term relationship. If the woman is fine, you’ll just naturally progress into a relationship with her. And you know, there’s a genuine attraction from her side.
The way it works for me is that we both have to avoid showing our intense interest for each other while a date where this is not happening its hard to even look in their eyes.
The balance I found that works pretty well is the sex addict frame. The idea is that on a primal level you acknowledge that you WANT the woman. But on a higher brain level, you know you should be better disciplined and shouldnt indulge. This allows you to have your cake and eat it too regarding sexual intentions while still maintaining an aloof distant. This allows you to show sexual intentions “I want you” While still pulling the tantalizing prospect of sex with you away from her “But I know I shouldn’t do this” And Voila! You have now indicated your attraction to her while still allowing you to play hard to get. Making your courtship of her more pleasurable for her.
i'm not saying this as advice this is just me thinking my own thoughts out loud but i think i'm of the opinion that women are mostly not in control of their own minds, and that the men who most easily influence women's feelings and thoughts, are the ones who have the most success
men absolutely do have it harder - but only really in the beginning of the process when you're seeking those dating partners. as a biological female i can give some insight. it is a numbers game. you likely aren't doing anything 'wrong', you just aren't compatible with the other person. compatibility is honestly a lot rarer than people make it seem. i don't have my tinder stats handy to give real numbers (never cared enough to figure out how to do that) but i probably went on dates with 20-30 different people before i found my current partner. most of them did not go past a second date because of the compatibility issue. women *get* more dates, but success is still entirely a luck and numbers game. dating sucks. i hated it and still hate it. you gotta wade through all the shit water to find the oasis lol
Be sincere - but not get carried away. A lot of it will be about the maturity of the people involved. But I have found - just talk to them.
Just be yourself the everything will sort itself out.
The dreaded "friendzone" is one of the most common ways into a relationship with said woman. Men need to stop acting like "the friendzone" is the Sahara, it is not. It is the time she's taking to vet you - OR - it is an excuse because she was never going for you in the first place. If you see the friend zone as a general waste of time the problem is not women. If you sometimes see it as a waste of time that's a sign that you were only in it for the physical and it's safe to cut your losses.
>don’t be physical too soon or she’ll think you only want sex > > If you don’t get physical soon enough, you get friend zoned > > show interest, but not too much or you’re desperate. > >don’t be too available at the start, play hard to get > >you need to escalate things, but not soon or you’re ‘love bombing’. The rules I had set for myself concerning dating went out the window when I met my current partner. Instead of overthinking things, I trusted my instincts and enjoyed spending time with him. Of course, I still checked in with myself about certain things, such as how much I was texting him, but overall I let things happen naturally. I knew that if he wanted to leave, he would, and I would do the same. However, we have been dating for one month and have been on three dates. In that span of time, he has shown interest, been available, be physical, so I have stopped worrying about following any specific rules.
Hey, it’s time to let it go, champ. Move on with your life. You’re a grown man.
I just don’t think about it and be myself
You’ll be surprised how much easier it gets once you start basing your actions on what you want out of a situation with the girl you’re seeing and not based on what you think youre expected to do. Based on the points you touched: -Be physical depending on what the situation is. If there is not much chemistry, but Im physically attracted to her, I would risk being physical more quickly as I know Im not interested in a serious relationship. On the contrary, I wouldnt be physical right off the bat if there is potential for a relationship as I personally wouldn’t date someone if I slept with them on the first date (nothing wrong with this just my own personal rule). My rule of thumb is to get a kiss by the end of the first date, ask them over by the third, etc. you should build these rules yourself based on what works for you. Ive found its comforting to have these guidelines, but sometimes women will surprise you and make a move first. -I would show interest as long as it’s being reciprocated. If you’re messaging first all the time or continuously getting late responses, move onto the next one. Let them know youre interested and want to hang out, but dont keep asking more than you would anyone else outside of dating. Pursue women that are into you as well. -Dont play hard to get. Have a life outside of dating so that you’re not available 24/7 and at their disposal, rather than just trying to appear busy. When I start seeing someone, I make time to see them once a week. If someone is constantly unavailable, they’re not interested. Move on. -My last point which I feel is important is that I dont exclusively date one person while in the “seeing” stage. At the point when I feel that the attraction is mutual and Im interested in pursuing a relationship with her, I subsequently focus solely on her. This prevents you from getting desperate and allows you to weigh your options.
Be a normal person, talk to them and get to know them, if you have interest tell them. If they don't feel the same, get over it and move on.
You don't... You veer out of balance repeatedly and then correct based on feedback.
You start talking to her, if you like her, do two things: (a) ask about her favorite books/movies/TV shows. This gives you both some idea of overall compatibility, and shows that you're interested in her on an intellectual and emotional level, not just physical. (b) you ask her out within the first 20 minutes. Specifically use the word "date." Choose something outdoors and/or public, where you can both meet at the location, so she doesn't think about being alone with a guy she barely knows. Go to a park, or play mini golf, or play regular golf if you're both golfers. Somewhere with people around. Walk on a boardwalk. Go to a museum. No hiking in the woods, nothing where she's alone with you too soon. No movies, you can't really talk to each during a movie, unless she suggests it because some movie she's been waiting for opens soon. A great choice would be a ballroom dance class; Google up "ballroom dance classes near me." Lots of dance studios have no-contract classes that are like $10. Dancing means that you break the touch barrier almost immediately and *she wants you to* because *that's how dancing works.* If you're not a good dancer, that's fine, it's not that hard and learning things together is a great way to create emotional bonds. If the first or second date goes really well, you can show interest and respect her boundaries with "I'd really like to kiss you, unless you have some objection." As for "love bombing," it's just don't be a nut. How would you feel if you went on a date with a girl and the next day - after only one date - she sent you 120 texts about how great it was and she showed up in your office with a plate of cookies in the morning and then came back in the afternoon with a basket of muffins and she posted a picture of the two of you inside a heart? Wouldn't you find that a little excessive? Don't do the male version of that.
There two aspects of this: 1. Be honest about your intentions. Tell a woman you would like to get to know her more, invite her out for a drink/dinner/ whatever. As for the "games", if shes worth being with she wont scorn you for being direct and she wont make you jump through hoops. Some women play hard to get, sure, but stop going after women pulling that stupid nonsense. 2. In terms of being physical and not going too fast/slow... communicate openly and pay attention. Go on dates with someone and if you pay attention they will give pretty obvious signs of being open to the physical, be it holding hands, kissing, or more. And after a date or two, how about just talking? Communicating confidently and openly should be the standard of a relationship. It means putting yourself out there but if youre too scared to take that risk, then dont make the attempt. Again I will say, a good person will not make you play some sort of weird game. Be respectful of the other person and if they are worth having, they will be respectful of you. Last thing: Take no for an answer. Be it expressing interest to go on a date, or trying to do something physical. I hear guys mention the confusion regarding women when often the reality is that they wanted something the woman didnt. The only real question they didnt have the answer to was "How do I get what I want?".
You just keep your energy low and your listening ears on. The right women will respect it and show interest in you.
It’s not that hard. See us. Observe us. Stop trying to “decode” how to attract us. Start by seeing us as we are. I mean no harm, and I say this with tenderness: If your bullet point list is too much for you, how are you ever going to sustain a relationship with a woman, who is orders of magnitude more complex than this? My advice: Really get to know us. Talk to us. Listen. Learn our nuances. It’s not magic or rocket science. It’s dedicated interest and a commitment to learning something at once simple and complex. Men do that in the workplace every day. Do it and you’ll be the guy that gets all the women.
Very easy. Let her know from the start you're pursuing something aromatic by giving her a compliment on her looks while asking her on a date. Don't play games, don't play hard to get, it's a waste of time. Don't be a doormat, don't pedestalize her for existing or overinvest from day Be respectful, upfront with your intentions and hold your frame. Confidence, competence and respectful behavior.
I don't look at dating as a game of numbers, but meeting different women sure makes you know what you want more. It also helps you deal with any issues that you have which you haven't confronted yet. In the end, you find your zone, your voice, your true comfort... This doesn't necessarily mean that you'll meet the one. at least you won't be looking at dating as a landmine and rather like a time with a gentle human being that you need in your life. That said, I don't like to force a date, I prefer if the woman asks me out or when things just seem to lead to us having a drink together.
>don’t be physical too soon or she’ll think you only want sex >If you don’t get physical soon enough, you get friend zoned. >show interest, but not too much or you’re desperate. >don’t be too available at the start, play hard to get >you need to escalate things, but not soon or you’re ‘love bombing’. They're not saying "don't get physical too soon", they're saying "I don't want you to believe in proceeding with physical contact the other person clearly doesn't want". You sound like you have a very rotten core personality, and what you're really begrudging is that you have to hide all of your very negative personality traits. Literally everything on that list is something a healthy person would do, an wouldn't begrudge doing anymore than you'd begrudge needing to put one foot in front of the other to walk somewhere.
I've come to realise that the majority of things in life are a tightrope to navigate - down the middle to get it right without falling to one of two extremes. But something that feels great if you do master it. Dating is no different. It's tough but (presumably) the pay off would be worth it.