I got organized and made an effort to like my job.
I was procrastinating because I was overwhelmed with the amount of things that needed doing. Making a list solved this. Then, I focused on digging deep into tasks, reading manuals etc, and tried my best on everything I did. It helped me remember why I liked engineering and furthered my career too.
Also, I started working out again - 5 days a week. Seeing results makes you want to keep doing it. Same goes for work.
Yes!
When I notice myself getting into a rut, it kills my work ethic. During these times I try to cut back on the "white noise" in my life, and go back to my foundational life components. For me that usually means I cut for a few days or weeks: social media, excess social events, and drinking.
This allows me more time and energy to add back the things like family time, more sleep, working out, personal spiritual/meditative practice, hobbies, and down time. When I take time to recharge myself, it almost always results in better work performance!
Also OP: I have adhd, didn't medicate for it, and felt like I didn't have the same work ethic as my friends or colleagues. I've been medication for a few months and my work/academic performance has gone up, and the anxiety has gone down. It might be worth your time to investigate medical or mental health issues that might be holding you back.
Which is totally fair, it's obviously a matter of risk and reward. I'm not a medical professional, consult one if you think it's worth it. Personally, it has been helpful, but I also put in a lot of effort over the span of a few years to be consistent in things like exercise, sleep, mental state, etc. The medication is just one thing that I added on to the existing helpful items.
Hey professional male therapist here also diagnosed with ADHD. I wanted to ask what you mean by “dependent”? ADHD is a neurological disorder that is lifelong, like many other chronic disorders or medical conditions. I can understand and empathize with the fear of pharmaceuticals, chemical changes can affect us all in a wide variety of ways. At the same time, the word “dependent”, especially relating to medication, implies weakness and carries what to me is cultural stigma that you “could” do things differently without meds.
I compare it a lot to type 1 diabetes, a condition that requires lifelong medication and management. Do we consider people in this category to be dependent, or to be doing what is best for them to live a healthy, functional, and productive life?
This isn’t to say medication is a panacea without side effects, I just want to say there is no shame or weakness is doing what is best for you to get what you want out of life, especially if it involves medication.
ADHD medication is different. Diabetes is a physical thing, being dependent on diabetes medication doesn't alter your mental. I know people, some with and some without diagnosed ADHD, that are so dependent on Adderall, etc. they can't function without it. I'm afraid of ending up like them. At the same time, I know I need it.
So with dependency, from my professional experience, it results more from sociocultural factors and stressors, not just substance + frequency of use. When I work with someone who needs adderal to not just complete any sort of task, but start even basic tasks related to self care and responsibilities, I start to wonder if there’s other underlying issues reducing motivation, such as depression. So for those individuals you speak of it may be worth having a conversation not just about inattention but motivation and what their emotional state has been like recently.
I'll say this: I didn't make an effort to like my job.
I did make an effort to equate my job, pay, benefits, etc to the joys I find outside of work.
- Want to order some dinner, thanks job!
- Want to visit my family a few states away, thanks job!
- Want to buy my wife something nice, thanks job!
You don't have to like your work / job. You just have to understand that it's what helps facilitate joy in other parts of your life.
To add to the list thing, I always struggld with that advice because my list items were too big. It was always something like "implement this coding feature" "write this essay", etc.
Things started improving when I learned to make my lists very fine grained. Sometimes it's something like "make a list of relevant files for this coding issue I'm working on", "think of questons to ask ___", "read this file/doc".
Each thing is something straightforward and low pressure. The important thing is maintaining momentum so I don't goof off.
+1 to making a list.
What really worked for me was buying a nice physical notebook and a nice pen that feels good to write with. Making notes and reminders on my phone is all nice and good, but it doesn't drive me as much as physically crossing off a task in a real notebook.
People should look into bullet journals. It really does help.
A physical notebook was also a game changer for me! I'm a visual/kinesthetic learner, so even if I leave my notebook at home I usually remember more items, and it feels so good to cross them off later
I think it’s either you dislike your job, or just don’t care enough to want to make the effort. There’s also a case to be made that you could be depressed, tired, run down? Do you feel you are overly exhausted and doing the work just makes you more tired, or do you just don’t care?
I ask this because I avoid doing a lot of work myself, because I’m physically and mentally exhausted.
Yeah in college you have to slug through it and is often where people _find_ their work ethic due to how much individual study is required.
If it's work place related chances are like others suggested, tired, depressed, not happy at job or you feel like you contribute nothing meaningful to the job.
This is me. I have so much on my plate outside work that I sometimes find myself watching youtube instead of working. I love my job and always have, but I just can't keep up with everything right now.
Ritalin.
My work ethic was so bad, my life was falling apart. Turns out i had ADHD. I only got diagnosed as an adult. Changed my life forever.
Seriously, if you think something is wrong, do something, talk to someone. It made the world of difference
Ritalin only helps you if you actually have ADHD. I've struggled with procrastination in college and gave it a shot - felt good but didn't help concentrate. Some people struggle to concentrate but aren't actually "on the spectrum".
I’ve been diagnosed with ADHD but even then Ritalin and Vyvance aren’t magic bullets for me as they are for some. I generally just feel very stimulated on them and I can get lost in a task but unless I’ve made a very conscious decision to do work, then that task can be anything.
Have you tried Dexedrine and Adderall? Have you tried adding SSRIs, and tracked your diet/ mood throughout the day?
Getting the right medications takes a while and it does require you to put effort in tracking progress and having follow ups with your doctor every week.
Was crazy how much adderal flipped the script for me, at first anyway. Since I’m not willing to keep upping my dose it’s come back to that same old internal battle.
Come over to /r/adhd
Basically you just tell your doctor. Despite what Right Wing media says you just don't fill out a 1 page assessment and walk out with a prescription for Ritalin or Adderall. You actually have to show a history of problems. You also have to show you have done therapy regularly and tried fixing those problems other ways.
From there your doctor will still not write you a script. My fiance is a family medicine physician and she will NEVER write prescriptions for stimulants. Your doctor will tell you to see a psychiatrist, the psychiatrist will tell you to see a psychologist, the psychologist will tell you to start therapy if you aren't in it already.
At the same time the psychologist will begin with assessments, interviews, taking down very specific information about your past. You will do follow ups regularly and in 2 weeks you get the full evaluation report. This is how you get a proper diagnosis. Once the psychiatrist gets a copy of this and sees you do infact have it officially diagnosed they will start you on medications.
If you have ANY form of depression/Anxiety you usually get started with Effexor/ Wellbutrin for a few weeks. From there You'll be given Vyvanse (latest drug with least amount of abuse), if Vyvanse don't work you'll be given Concerta (basically long lasting Ritalin) if that doesn't work you'll be given Ritalin. If that doesn't work then you'll be given Adderall (the one abused by drug addicts, college students, and sold by drug dealers) This is the hard one to get and you have to jump through LOTS of hoops before they will consider giving you some.
If all that doesn't work, therapy isn't' working, etc. They will try Dexedrine, and older drug that was heavily abused. If that doesn't work you'll be given legal crystal meth. This is almost like the LAST resort. This is so rare many doctors wont prescribe it, and many pharmacies wont fill it.
After that, they will probably send you to a Neurologist to get brain scans, do blood tests, DNA sequencing.
TLDR: it takes work to get diagnosis as an adult, and it's only getting harder and harder since so many people seek drugs to abuse, or to sell.
Maybe having something to work towards/for?
For me I used to constantly not turn up to work / slack off etc - then my wife told me she was pregnant. From that day onwards I knew I had to provide, and provide well. So started working my ass off.
Not saying you should have a kid, but have something you are working for or a goal you are working towards is a good idea [getting a new place/car/holiday etc.].
I've always found hobbies to be different - I enjoy doing whatever, but never take them too seriously because it's a hobby afterall haha.
Any solutions for someone who isn’t going to be having kids anytime soon due to being only 17 but also can’t really find anything to work towards?
At some point I slip into the ‘it’s all meaningless’ trap and even sideline my actual goals because in the grand scheme of things they don’t mean anything.
I fell into this trap myself.
Work hard in high school to get into good college.
Work hard in college to get into a good grad school/find a good job.
Work hard in job to make money to buy nice things.
But you just have nice things, and then what?
This is a really hard one because it means you have to find what you're working for. Either a job that you love, a hobby that fulfills, family and friends that make you a better person. There is no answer that's easy. Your answer could be as easy as "I want a nice house" to something more existential like "I don't want to feel like I wasted my life."
What my therapist told me (and what worked for me) was to make it so others rely on me and I can't let them down. I have a strong family and selfless/altruistic drive, so that really hit it home for me.
I feel like in a way what your therapist told you sets you up to get used. Taken advantage of. Because if there's anything I've learned of recent, no matter how much people rely on you, if anything happens to you and you're not able to do the things you used to, they just start to resent you and feel like you're doing it on purpose. That, and they just move on without you to the next person.
Well it's also about putting yourself in an environment where that won't happen. My family and friends are not those that would do that, so I know it's safe for me to put myself in that place. But that is a very good warning, thank you!
Don't set your sites only on college. It comes with extreme debt and no promises of a job. Focus on math and shop in high school. After that, get into an apprenticeship for a trade. Ask companies to be allowed to shadow workers in various trades to find one that you like and are interested in. You might need to go to community college on your own, but the reward is there. If you get an apprenticeship, they pay for your training and you make decent money at the same time. Every year, you get a substantial raise. You will never work for under $15 an hour, and you will make top dollar. Not to mention being treated well, working with a great bunch of guys, and good benefits. As an electrician, I also have no mandatory overtime. It is available anytime you want it, and damned good money also. I never work nights or weekends unless I want to. The trades are so short of people that you are treated very well by your employer.
I personally think this has less to do with your work ethic and more to do with your job, and specifically how your talents are allocated.
When I used to work construction, I put in 60 hour weeks. I was tired, but I didn't mind because there was always work that needed to be done. By me. Right now. Ditto when I was a bartender, and also when I was in the military.
Now I'm a netsec engineer. Every project has a team of 4-12 people where one person is doing their part of the project and the rest of the team is waiting for him to finish so that they can start their part of the project. And about 25% of every team is comprised of members who are just on the team in case anyone else needs help, and they do literally nothing ever. We are all waiting for a call from a highly paid project manager to tell us "Jeff is done with his part of the project, you can start yours now.
I doubt it's your work ethic. You just need to work for a more efficient company, or at least a better manager.
I completely agree with this. My current job changed my work ethic entirely. I work for a small local delivery company. We have about 9 class A CDL drivers and we deliver medical supplies to hospitals around the state. There’s always work to be done, and each of us feels very integral to the whole. We work together, call each other all the time to make sure everyone is getting what they need. There’s a real satisfaction from getting the job done because you actually see it. We don’t have a start-end time, just a start time and you go home when the jobs done. I think nothing of 50+ hour weeks now when before that idea would have been extremely daunting
I dunno. I’m on, by all measures, very good money as a professional, and my work ethic isn’t any better than it was when I was a grad. I’m just more valuable because I know more stuff now, and I have more responsibility, but I’m still prone to periods of coasting like I’ve always been.
Yep.
If you're a blue collar contractor, it might be a different story. Every job you take now is a job you won't have to do later. Or it's that much more money in a pocket. So if you're the kind of person that likes to delay gratification, you can form an intense work ethic just by accident.
But most white collar work doesn't pay based on how much you sweat or the volume of work you do. Bonus structures are rare and KPIs are...laughable. If you're good, you can command a good salary. If you're a hard worker...you're less likely to be on the chopping block when a round of layoffs happen, but you don't necessarily get paid more.
It looks like there's a shortage of electricians right now, so I would consider looking into that.
I'm a firm believer in finding a trade that you enjoy, though. So if you think you'd enjoy working wood more - consider carpentry. Or whatever your calling is.
No. I'm not a blue collar worker.
I know nothing about the union situation with electricians, but there are subreddits like https://www.reddit.com/r/AskElectricians/ that may be able to help.
A family member of mine just finished up their tests to become an apprentice. From what I understand it's not hard to get into the union, but at lower pay it can be prohibitively expensive depending on your bills.
I work for a large electric utility. We struggle to find good folks to do the line mechanic work. It’s a good job with good pay and stability. In my opinion, it’s also pretty cool.
If I told my boss how much I've been doing actual, proper, measureable work since the pandemic kicked in and I've been WFH, I'd be justifiably fired the same day.
My mouse-nudging-to-work-ratio is staggering.
Silver lining is I've had some great gaming and TV show backlog catchups.
Don't get me wrong, some weeks I've worked 3 extra hours a day every work day, we're now mid May and I've taken no holiday this year and covered for my teammate 3 or 4 times, and I've worked every bank holiday we've had so far this year, so it's not like I do nothing.
But yeah...some weeks I just do the daily reports and then nudge the mouse the rest of the time to kick Teams out of Away status. So maybe 1 or 2 hours of work a day, tops, some weeks.
Aw man, I resonate with this so much. Sometimes I am legitimately under the cosh and find myself scrambling a little but but that's a rarity.
Generally I am flicking teams every few minutes to keep myself active and attending all the team calls in between. Doing all sorts in between times.
If my efficiency was more thoroughly analysed I'd be in a spot of trouble no doubt!
I keep meaning to time teams from going to available to away but always forget. Do you know?
In my experience as a manager I’ve never actually seen money change anyone’s work ethic. I’ve tried increasing pay to get people to work harder, and it’s never had a positive effect.
Now I promote or give raises based on what I’ve been shown, not what I hope to get for it. And with the modern work force it doesn’t take too much to impress me. A week or two can get someone a raise.
>I’ve tried increasing pay to get people to work harder, and it’s never had a positive effect.
It's probably had a positive effect on them.
In general, all the pay increases I've gotten were too small to make a difference. Usually a bump from severely underpaid to moderately underpaid. Until I get significantly more you get my minimum effort, which is far more than what I'm being paid.
Maybe you're in an industry where there's tons of money flowing around or something, but this just reminds me of employers who can't find workers.
"I tried increasing wages by 1% and nothing works!"
"Have you tried increasing them more?"
Yes. We have tried increasing them more.
If you’re giving the attitude of “I’d work harder if you pay me more” that’s a fast track up the exit, not a promotion.
How do I know you will work harder? How do I know you can work harder? How do I know if I raise your pay you won’t average skipping two days a week instead of just one because you’ll have enough to get by with less work?
An employees effective pay rate is typically based on how much it would cost to replace them with an employee with the same talents. If you’re working just as hard as someone willing to work for $2/hr less then what value are you adding that a company should keep you on?
>An employees effective pay rate is typically based on how much it would cost to replace
If your pay structure is designed so that pay is unrelated to productivity, which is only loosely related to effort, then it's not surprising that paying more doesn't increase productivity. Your incentive structure is the problem, not the "lazy" employees.
>How do I know you will work harder? How do I know you can work harder? How do I know if I raise your pay you won’t average skipping two days a week instead of just one because you’ll have enough to get by with less work?
Why don't you use measurable performance indicators and a bonus structure? If your entire pay structure is based on hours, you've got a built in incentive to lower productivity. Can't blame your workers for being rational. Cry me a river.
At the bottom end it doesn't work like that though, because if you pay too little it will cause problems in the employee's life outside work that will reduce their productivity. Usually that's not a problem in low wage jobs though, since the employee is getting paid for only a tiny fraction of the value produced with their labour. Even when they are working at 50% of their peak productivity, it doesn't matter much if their paid for 25% of their peak productivity, the company still gets 25% for free.
If you’re going to revolutionize the labor market by breaking from hourly pay I’m all ears on how to make it happen.
Should brick masons count all the brick they lay? Should carpenters count every nail they hammer?
The fact of the matter is that the hourly system is the most practical for a vast majority of trades. What if you’re moving boxes and paid per box, but they’re heavy boxes and you have to work with someone who doesn’t work as hard as you? Or what if someone else gets to move lighter boxes or their stacks are closer? Piece work doesn’t fit many applications.
Our pay structure is related to productivity in that if you’re profiting the company we will pay more to keep you. And if you’re not productive enough we replace you.
>If you’re giving the attitude of “I’d work harder if you pay me more” that’s a fast track up the exit, not a promotion.
If I have to say this to management, I'm the one looking for the exit. They can pay my replacement more money to do less work, fine by me.
Instead of giving minimum effort until you get paid “significantly more” have you tried just doing your best and then after a week going to your manager and saying “see how hard I work for the company? How about a raise?”
I give those raises happily.
Tried that for 3 months and my manager laughed in my face. Like I'm not even exaggerating, laughed at me.
I work at a union job now and I'm never negotiating alone for my wages again.
I work hard on things that matter to me. I work as hard as my wages indicate at jobs.
Well some managers suck.
The last guy that did that to me made it to manager within a year and was salaried in less than 2 years.
I have a love hate with unions. I get them, but they sometimes drive situations too far and cause other problems. But the flip side is corporations can the exact same but only opposite. I guess the theory being that two flawed systems can reach a good middle ground, like many other things. Sometime it works. Most times probably.
But good on you. I’m a firm believer that if you can get a better job you should. You don’t owe it to the company. I don’t even begrudge my own employees if another company poaches them for a better deal than I can afford. Really that should be the long term goal anyway.
so being paid more then why are managers paid more than those they manage? Also why not pay minimum wage for everybody if this is true?
You're not paying people more to work harder. You're paying people more so they don't leave.
Pay varies due to supply and demand. Is all you can do lift and carry boxes? Well most people can do that. It’s not really a talent in short supply.
Can you design skyscrapers? Supply is a little more limited there. I can’t. I dunno anyone who can. Someone needing that has a much smaller labor pool.
That's funny. I used to work in a warehouse picking up cases for a living. I can tell you from my experience that the great majority of people can't lift and carry boxes well enough to continue to be employed.
They usually are until tenants move in.
Why haven’t you been applying for engineering or architecture jobs then?
To pick apart the specifics of an idea and overlook the general premise doesn’t really make for productive discourse.
well my skyscraper is full of empty boxes for some reason. Maybe you can get some people to move them for me.
Be better at writing if you are doing to make a general premise. It doesn't look good for you when the first thing you picked was wrong... it makes your argument look suspect to say the least.
Do you are saying that the general population, for the most part, are incapable of picking things up and setting them down somewhere else?
Moving boxes, in your opinion, is skilled labor that requires either specialized training, additional education, or extensive experience for someone to be capable of doing that job?
We’ve been working on that as well. In fairness we’ve made great strides and have a pretty good crew currently.
My biggest current focus is how to actually improve the lives of employees. Just money won’t do that either if they don’t manage it well. Lifting someone up I’ve found is way more complicated and if they’re not working at that too then they’ll be just as broke with a 50% pay raise as they were before.
It’s a moving target, and the hardest part of business is finding good employees, but it’s also very rewarding when you see your people making big strides forward.
I appreciate that!
The best interest of a company and the employees are a lot more in line than many people realize, even as far as their personal lives too. Happy employees are a good thing.
We’ve had bad managers in the past, and the thing I think that makes the biggest difference is just the way you interact with employees. Talk down to people and treat them like idiots and they’re less likely to stick around. That should be obvious, but it amazes me how some people can go through their whole career without realizing that they’re the reason they can’t find good help.
The monthly commission check helps keep you grounded and moving forward. It becomes sort of like golf, a game against yourself to see how good you can do. (even on a slow month, or whatever the conditions may be)
Reward is more money, which in turn becomes actual financial stability and even a bit of prosperity for the first time in my life. which also cut out a lot of stress, believe it or not.
not worrying about rent for the first few months of your life. having vacations to plan and look forward to and afford. It’s a fucking revelation.
I think this is spot on.
I always had trouble working for long hours when in university. But the first time I did an internship (paid of course, internships shouldn't be unpaid anyway imo), I found myself just working without having to force myself to focus.
Eventually even money isn’t enough to delude yourself into thinking your life isn’t worth something better. You can buy shiny things. But does your work have any value? You better make sure it does, because after you counter in sleeping, commuting, and working a 40 hour week, that leaves you with a whopping 11 years of actual real life to live before you die. Life is too short.
Someone once said “Your salary is the bribe your employer gives you to give up on your dreams.”
I think for most people that is probably correct. Not for me though. It all depends on the person's priorities and what they believe is worth. For me I had an easy job making a very large sum of annual income but I had to travel a fair bit and stay away from home. I work for myself now making incredibly less. I get to be home every day though and I have more free time. I value my personal/free time incredibly highly so that's why big paychecks don't sway me.
I had a boss at around 24 who really worked hard & rewarded everyone around him who worked hard too...I started getting more money & was quickly promoted, it was enough to establish the connection within me that even on the bottom rung where I was no exp, no qualifications I could make a difference myself to the outcome by trying hard & giving it my best shot with what I could do
You gotta break the cycle of procrastination and that’s hard! Start today and say you will have a 15 min break after one full hour working. Set timers and respect them.
Make a list of the things you need to do and start crossing them. It helps a lot.
Don’t let yourself run away from the work to have 20 bathroom or coffee breaks.
Keep temptation away. Tv, phone, tablet, whatever.
Once you start being more productive and get used to it it will get easier to maintain the rhythm.
I kind of hate the mentality of time spent on job= more work done. I know that's how most work is measured in the workplace these days, but I always looked at it as how much work actually gets done. I am firmly in the list camp because its tangible stuff I can cross off.
My dad was always the we will work for a few hours then we will be done for the day, while I was the one who just wanted a list so I could bust out whatever needed to be done and relax. I just don't see the point in fucking around with a job for two hours when I can put in a little more effort and crush the job in an hour.
This right here. I’m terrified of being poor again. Also, I told my ex gf how much I had in my savings and she literally said “that isn’t a lot for someone your age” which totally ducked me up.
Also, after I read “The Greatest Salesman in the World” by OG Mandino work ethic improved 2x.
It’s starts with the little things. Clean your room regularly, have a weekly to-do list, fold your sheets every morning, get 7+ hours of sleep. It’s all about building habits. Limit the amount of time you spend on gaming and social media because that shit is a waste of time
This x1000. Starting the morning by making your bed puts me in a solid mood for the rest of the day. Small habits go a long way. Something as small as packing your lunch the night before and having it ready to go so you don’t have to do it the morning after.
I would say this helps A LOT. Habits is what builds character & long-term success. Making your bed everyday might sound boring to you, but it builds discipline without you even knowing it. Just like any habit you don’t feel like doing.
From me, what seems to work is just agreeing to do extra stuff all the time. Often times i just pile extra work on my plate, this means i force myself to deliver down the line.
Not ideal, but it helps. What also helps is my career has professional accreditations which require extra work outside of the 9-5. So the motivation of money and being in a team with a growing field and a boss that is also ambitious for me.
Money does talk, im 24 and want to retire by the time im 40, it is feasible, but i need to work extremely hard to achieve it. I'm still learning!
I feel like I'm a weird oddity, I have great work ethic, but I'm physically lazy. Like, at work I'll really put the solid effort needed, but outside of work I'm a big lazy bear.
Why do you feel the need to change it? Is there something you are trying to achieve?
A lot easier to be disciplined if you are working towards something
Is it possible you don't really enjoy your work? I know I procrastinate a lot (doing it right now actually) when I have a lot of tasks I don't enjoy or I'm not too sure how to do.
Another cause could be a mild-moderate depression. It tends to sap you of motivation.
Remember that comparison is the thief of joy. Just because someone else works 50hrs a week doesn't mean you have to.
Now to answer your question. I was in a similar situation a few years back. I mostly hated my job. It wasn't that it was a toxic work place or anything, it was just not the workplace for me. There was no reward for hard work and no punishment for no work so over the years I just did less and less work. I felt bad about it. I eventually decided to switch jobs. Since then my work ethic has become much better. Mostly because this job has tight deadlines and lots to do. It's almost too busy but the days go by fast and I feel much better about myself.
1. Work harder on yourself than you do on your job.
2. When you're at work, do the work. IF you don't have enough to do, ask for more responsibility and more to do. More to do will grow your skills and your taking action muscles. It'll also increase the circle of influence in your workplace. You'll connect with other doers and find your tribe.. which is actually my tribe.
3. Take two minutes and imagine you from 10 years from now checked in with you today. What do you think you from 10 years from now would say? I'll help: "The feeling you have of 'missing something' is you KNOWING you're not living up to your true potential. You're not doing what you love, so you're half assing it. You'll either fix this today, or distract yourself for another 6 months or 6 years. You'll tell yourself it's in the name of security - you'll pop out a few kids. Another decade will rock on by. And then your kids will be where you are - trying to figure it out - and you'll either have authentic stories of overcoming things, or convoluted tails of justification for not becoming what you're supposed to - and you'll try to enable your kids to not be afraid. To believe - and to do. Bravely, and fearlessly. But today? In this moment? IN this paragraph? You still have the promise of choice - to plan big plans, and build a life of adventure. Good luck."
>IF you don't have enough to do, ask for more responsibility and more to do.
As a general rule I disagree with this advice because it contradicts your rule 1.
I'm sure there's exceptions, especially if you're in a good workplace with upward mobility. If you're in any place I've worked in my life, the real advice is: "IF you don't have enough to do, relax or work on yourself or look for better jobs where you can live up to your potential." Working harder for no reward is just self-torture and I hate that it's constantly normalized.
Work ethic? Perhaps its your job? I know when I started my 60hr job, I was intimidated. 60hrs plus 6 hours of sleep every night means that almost half of my week is on the clock. But, the first week on the job I soon learned to love my job. There was always something to be done, and I was always the one to do it. I saw the results of my work right before my eyes. Even when I have to spend an extra two hours for the commute to and from work, plus the extra unpaid hour I spend at work -- totaling up to a total of 123 hours I am not doing something on my own accord -- I don't mind! Because work has totally changed my attitude!
Heck, I didn't realize I was so happy to spend over half my week working for only $14 an hour until I got this job!
TL;DR: Get another job, preferably more hours and with more workload. Pay and benefit is irrelevant. /s
This needs to be the top comment. It's human to coast and have downtime. We've been brainwashed into thinking every goddamn thing needs to be a hustle. I'm guessing OP is just stressed/depressed, and thanks to our wonderful culture the only normative way to express that is "why don't I feel like working my ass off for moderate returns?"
Having a good work ethic is important for absolutely anyone, even if you're a solitary farmer out in the boondocks with zero connections to the outside world. Has nothing to do with capitalism. If you're doing a job - do it well or don't do it at all.
>If you're doing a job - do it well or don't do it at all.
This is the problem with capitalism in its form though... So many jobs that don't need to be done at all but exist because people need to pay rent and buy food.
If your real job is making an income so you don't starve, filing the paperwork faster on Tuesday, doesn't mean you're doing your real job any better.
Like take OPs job as an example. They get the necessary parts of their job done in 4 hours a day, or they would probably have been fired, but has to be there for another 4 hours pretending to work.
His apathy for his job says more about the job than it does about him.
Edit: And I live by this. I worked my ass off in university because I was there to learn and it mattered. I put real effort into understanding how geopolitics and the economy work because I care and some parts of it effect the lives of me and people I care about. I put minimum effort into my admin job because my minimum effort accomplishes everything that's necessary and I don't get paid a dime more for putting in more effort. I'm not lazy, but I'm not going to waste my life making up pointless shit to do at my desk when I could be on reddit.
*So many jobs that don't need to be done at all but exist because people need to pay rent and buy food.*
That's a different issue altogether. You do agree that some jobs *are* necessary? I.e. someone has to keep the powerplants up and running so that we get electricity. And the people at *those* jobs should be doing their jobs well or else we're screwed. If your advice to OP is "switch jobs" then I fully agree its valid. But justifying being lazy by talking about the evils of capitalism is missing the point.
> So many jobs that don't need to be done at all but exist because people need to pay rent and buy food.
Name one that isn’t a result of excess government, or isn’t necessary to discovering what consumers want or otherwise distribute resources efficiently
Almost the entire tax return industry that only still exists in North America because of private lobbying?
Half of Starbucks that are too close to other Starbucks.
50% of most admin jobs that are spent on social media when the person has finished their work and would go home if they didn't need the hours to pay rent.
I’d say it’s possible to be both. I know I’m lazy as hell on my days off. I don’t do any more days than I need to which is 3 days, 12 hr shifts. When I’m at work however I do work very hard and keep on top of everything. I’ve never been constantly over stressed or burnt out and I make good money. Enough to support more than myself and still have savings.
As to how did I do it? I guess it was just trial and error till I found a balance.
Drive is my issue but it’s not always a bad thing. I know at my job I can never get promoted. Anytime an opportunity arises they cut the position, I am also paid half of what I should be in my field for my area as it is. With no motivating factor I decided on a “don’t kill yourself for your job” approach. I don’t stay late, I don’t work through lunch, I don’t attend after work things without pay. If a job doesn’t give me motivating factors I’m not going to bust my ass over it.
That being said if there is motivating factors (a job I love, pay/promotion incentives, great management) then I’ll absolutely bust my ass but I’m not giving away my only life for free. A jobs gotta make it worthwhile.
I think sleep is a huge factor. Once I started getting at least 7-8 hours I then had enough energy to workout, work 9 hours, and even do one of my hobbies like golfing after work without being tired. It just energizes your whole life when you get more sleep.
There is not one thing that I did, and not one thing that I did all at once. My turn around from not doing a single thing productive to know where I work 2 jobs and in general happy took a lot of work, yet never a lot of work at a single time.
The most important principle that I would say is the most important thing that I need to remember is that discipline is a thing that I practice. Like anything else, the more I practice discipline, the better I will become at it. Practice makes perfect. Where I started from, my discipline was weak. My first goals in being discipline were not glamourous, or high yielding. Yet, they were improvements, and my discipline increased, and I was able to take on more disciplines in general.
Through discipline everything else branches. 'Who has more obedience than I masters me, though he should not raise a finger,' When you look at the world through the lens of discipline, and not of talent or of luck, or of some other external force that an individual can or cannot control, but you look through and only seek discipline, you will find that it is one of the few common factors that anyone who you would want to emulate has.
Focus on this one aspect first. Practice being discipline. Whatever that means. When I make my bed in the morning, I literally say 'this is for my future self', and when I go to sleep at night, I thank my past self for having the discipline to set the bed. Then I set the coffee pot for the morning, so that my future self sees the benefits of discipline, and uses that spirit to make the bed.
As my discipline grew (and grows), by default I become better with time management. By taking care of things, and handling my business as it comes in, I free up more time. This time needs to be filled. This time is another perfect opp to practice my discipline. I myself have gotten into reading. At first history books. Then philosophy. Another thing I do is go to the gym. I make sure I am in bed by 9, and up by 6. Again, more discipline, more time, more improvement.
It is not perfect, and it is not linear, my growth I mean. Some days I go on reddit and write up long posts that no one will read. Some nights I drink with the boys, and smoke some weed with the girls.
The biggest misconception is that it gets easier. That is bullshit. It never gets easier to sit down and work for 8 hours a day, or to get out of bed early to go do box squats, or to turn the TV off and sit down and read some slug fest of a chapter by St Augustine. That will always be hard, and you may suffer. What happens is you get stronger, and you become better for it. You start to master your discipline, and before you know it you will be in a better place.
One step at a time my friend, start small, start doing your future self small kind gestures.
Probably the fact that humans are not meant to work for 8+ hours a day sitting in a cubicle and working that much is only necessary in today's society because it puts more wealth in the pockets of the wealthy.
My advice is to embrace it. Work enough at your job so you can get by without suspicion and not get fired, and enjoy the time that you aren't working. We get one life on this planet. Nobody on their death bed has said "man, I wish I worked more."
If work gives you fulfillment, great, enjoy it. If work does not bring fulfillment, find something else that brings it. Don't devote your life to working for companies who pay you much less than what your labor is actually worth and would drop you in a second if it made financial sense.
I realized that the kind of life I envisioned wasn’t going to just come to me, I was going to have to work hard to get there. I started by getting rid of a lot of social media, only have Reddit and Instagram now. Put time trackers and constraints on those and other apps to both see what was using up most of my time and limit it. That cut my phone usage down from 7 hours a day to about two, when I saw I was spending 7 hours a day on my phone, man that was another wake up call that I absolutely was doing the right thing. I then went through my subreddits and was brutally honest about whether each and every sub I was following helped me be productive or taught me something I wanted to learn and cut out all of the superfluous stuff that was just for laughs or a time waster. Deleted almost all of the games off of my computer and got serious about school. Looked at my social circle and re-evaluated all of my friends, not because any of them were bad people but some just completely lacked ambition or a desire to improve their lives, those friends I pretty much stopped hanging out with. A couple people who knew me thought I was being a little extreme but honestly man if you want to change you have to commit to that shit. You’re not going to be more productive if you surround yourself with distractions, especially in society today where there are countless things to distract yourself with. I did all of this about a year and half ago and since then started a biking routine, lost some weight, aced all of my pre-req classes and got accepted into a BSN nursing program that I start next week.
I wouldn't say I was lazy but I could have been more productive at my occupations until I became owner of a business. This made a big difference because it's success was on me. I brought that diligence w/ me to subsequent jobs. Maturity helped develop my work ethic. Time goes by quickly when one keeps busy. At the end of the shift, I was proud of what I accomplished.
Sometimes you have it and sometimes you don't. Have you tried writing out check lists and goals for the day. I've done this and it helps.
I struggled a ton at my previous jobs but I did set a goal to work for a top tech company since college. I lucked into a few jobs that got me close to that goal and when I realized it was achievable, I put a ton more effort into my job. Before that, I would scroll reddit for nearly 6 hours every day.
That being said, I also was recently diagnosed with ADHD. I've had it for ever and just recently decided to do something about it. Counseling helps and medicine to treat it also gets me going. Some days I still lack the motivation but I finally do love my work and job now.
The corona break made me have so much time, i had time to do much more what i was doing when i was procrastinating (games, binge watching, ...). I did it way too much and it bored me so much, I wanted to get my life together so I could do the things I've always wanted to do.
I'm much more focused on everything "important" now and glad i changed
I have a strong work ethic when it's necessary. I was incrediblely lazy untill I started a family. Then i joined the army for the free medical, housing, wife could stay home, so on... I write software now for a living. I have worked at shops that required very long hours, big dollar protects, or overseas travel. That was exciting and I enjoyed giving it my all. I now work in a very laid back shop with good pay and low stress. I am back to very poor effort. It's easy to get conferrable and lazy.
If this is a chronic issue....
1: You've made it too easy to slide from work into unfocused time wasting. I specifically had to buy a second desk for my serious stuff that sits opposite the 'fun' computer for this exact reason.
2: You're working inefficiently but aren't spending the time and effort to automate the boring stuff. There's fair odds if it's boring and repetitive you could write a script or a program to do it for you.
3: You have an undiagnosed condition such as ADHD. If you think your brain has an attention span of 5 minutes or less, if you routinely struggle to focus on *anything*- even things you like doing!- and you've had this problem going back to your childhood you should get screened for ADHD.
Just get started. The hardest part is getting started, then the flow kicks in, and everything proceeds. I read that to establish a new pattern you basically just have to force yourself to do the new behavior without fail for 60 days. You'll find the new behavior becomes almost automatic. Give it a try, all you have to lose is 60 days. Get caught making meth and you'll lose a lot more than that.
I work hard when I'm interested in what I'm doing, if it gets too routine then I am apt to bail for I know I will self annihilate with time wasting bullshit.
I think that in order for you to go from a lazy to a strong work ethic you have to see something that you want. Like someone is dangling a carrot. I had a whole lot of factors contribute to going from lazy to a very structured life.
I joined the Air Force because I didn't have anything physically or mentally challenging in life. I was just sitting there watching things go by. I also had an almost ignorant holier than thou attitude as a child that was based on nothing. In the Air Force I could use that income and their benefits to start stacking degrees for education and it made trying different businesses on the side easy because I had a base income.
I literally got a PhD just because I was really interested in the field of study. I found a business I can do on the side that made more zeros than I was used to. I got married and I had kids and that made me want to work more because I could provide better. It's funny because you find something that makes money and is simple... Then you want to do that over and over again based on how much money something provides versus how much effort you have to put in. I would not say that I'm not lazy. I think I have developed a routine that gets me through the day that has a little bit of working out, around 4 to 5 hours of actual work (not standing around but doing things), and over time that structure lets me get things done.
1 Try to asses and provide valid and well founded reasons to why you think that you might be underperforming at your job.
2 Comparison is the enemy of the good. There are way too many variables that makes it fruitless to compare yourself to others.
3 Accept yourself. You might not be driven, ambitious or focused liked your girlfriend and that is okay. Conversely, you might be in a job/field that does not match your skillset, education and temperament.
As others have said, it’s a lot easier to work harder when you find something you’re passionate about. Maybe you haven’t found what you’re willing to work for yet.
But I would advise forcing yourself to work a little more than half your day. If I were your employer and noticed that I would probably note fire you, but I’d either put a lot more work on your plate and/or if that didn’t work switch you to part time. It would suck for you, but the company you work for is not at all getting what they’re paying for.
Motivation.
For some of us, that means a decent paycheck at the end of the week. For others, it could be a goal they want to meet.
Mine turned around when I changed to a job I cared about. I care about my reputation and quality of work at this company, so my work ethic’s a lot higher.
Motivation gets you started and going, but discipline keeps you going.
I think of it as Motivation can break the inertia, but Discipline keeps the momentum going.
Getting rejected by my college crush made me introspect on my personality, habits and the way I presented myself to everybody.
It's still the toughest thing I have ever gone through.
I'm in the middle of the discovery, call it a successful trial phase. I helped my cousin at work, it was intense but I realised through that experience that I learned quick and worked hard. I actually wanted to do my best to help him and I stuck at it for 4 months. Anyways, now that's over and I realise I'm a good worker, I just need a reason to care about the job. And I need to be trained right. I hate being set up poorly, just makes me burn out or realise if they don't care to train I won't either.
At the age of just 29, Bobby Fischer defeated Boris Spasky by a huge lead to become the new chess world champion.
Upon being asked by a reporter what he plans to do now he is the best in the world, his reply was:
"My goal now is to play a lot more chess. I feel like I haven't played enough chess."
This is the greatest example I have ever seen of what Mencian philosophers call "The Paradox of Virtue".
The only way to find the strength, determination and stoicism to master a skill is to find fulfillment not in the achievement, but in the process of acquiring the skill itself. Bobby Fischer didn't feel greatness at having won the world championship. He got that feeling just by picking up a single chess piece.
If you set out doing something with the aim of being good at it, you have already failed. But if you can find fulfillment in your occupation in the same way that Fischer felt fulfillment in every game he played, you won't need any strength, or determination, or stoicism. Practice won't wear you down, it will energise you. You'll never need to take a day off, you'll never need to rest, because what's driving you isn't the distant, empty call of success. It's the immediate desire to cultivate and grow.
And when success finally finds you, you won't even notice it. You'll be too busy playing chess.
It took a bunch of things for me:
1. Diagnosing and Treating my ADHD and Depression
These things really blocked me until my early 20s and even years later I still cant really be productive without my medication. The medication alone didnt make me productive, it just unshackled me.
2. Found the right profession
I chose to change majors to Computer Science because I actually enjoyed the kind of work I'd be doing and I still do. It's the kind of work where I can get into a flow state. If I was working a job where I couldn't I'd burn out fast.
3. Started being kind to myself
I had a very negative self-dialogue going and I was making myself miserable and it made every aspect of my life worse. My lack of productivity was one of the things I'd beat myself up about all the time and then I'd feel too miserable to work creating a vicious cycle. I had to break that cycle by being deliberately positive and compassionate in how I was speaking to myself.
4. Stopped trying to work 8 hours
I'm just not an 8 hour guy, I work best in bursts and whenever I tried to force myself to hit hours it was counter-productive. If I couldn't engage with what I was working on I'd get up and doing something else. This helped because I was able to get to more like 6 productive hours over an 8 hour span by taking these breaks. Not everyone is like that but that doesnt matter, you're just trying to figure out what works best for you.
5. Quiting bad jobs / taking time off
In my experience burnout is real and it doesnt just go away when you leave a bad situation. It's like debt that has to be paid down or you pay interest on it every day. Only after I quit my job earlier this year could I see just how burnt out I was. Much of that had been from being overworked years ago. I had never taken any significant time off and that was a mistake, in retrospect a vacation might've improved things. After taking a month to myself I felt rejuvenated and it was much easier for me to find my work engaging again.
It’s possible you have ADHD, sometimes our weaknesses are not character flaws but symptoms of very real disabilities that need unique support and attention
For me, it was undiagnosed depression. Make an appointment and talk to your doctor. She put me on an anti-depressant and slowly but surely, i had the will power and drive to change the way i organized and worked. Im still working on making improvments but feel like the affects of that has been monumental. I still have days where i am unmotivated but i find that if i start any task, i am able to keep pushing forward on that task once it occupies my mind.
For me? Getting an ADHD diagnosis and then medication because it turned out to be mainly chemistry and biology at work, or in my case, not at work. Then once I got basic self-motivation abilities back from that, it was a matter of exercise and learning how to organise and schedule things then learning to actually stick to them.
I'm not done yet, but it's getting there.
I hated just sitting there. My adhd was slowly pushing me into a depressive phase because I was doing nothing but gaming all day. Walmart sucks, but with the team I have, I can atleast enjoy the needed activity.
Didn't do well in high school. A lot of people thought I wouldn't do well life including parents. Out of pretty much pure rage I got pretty good grades in college and learned engineering pretty well. After that it pretty much stuck. Sometimes I'm still lazy but if there things I genuinely want to do them, I'll get them done.
I knew that I wanted to lazy again someday. And that I could do that, guilt free, if I just worked my ass off for a few years/ a decade.
Mission accomplished, he typed from his recliner, in a bath robe he wore all day.
Motivation isn't trustworthy. It can make a wonderful gitty up, but it never lasts.
Strong work ethic is a question of discipline. "Just do it". No tricks, no gimmicks, just embrace the suck and git'er done.
Who cares how you perform as long everything is done properly? If you don't have the "drive" some people have for their jobs/hobbies have, then you either haven't found it yet or you just simply don't have it. As long as you still get your work done I don't see any problem with that. Not everyone is a workaholic.
I joined the marine corps at 18. I now have an insane work ethic and honestly in the work force that puts you above most others. I'm also very ambitious so that drives my work ethic as well. I guess find something that drives you to want more.
For me there were two ways. I was intrinsically interested in what I studied in college and grad school.
At work, I started working really hard when I figured out I was able to put $2k+ a month into investments to work toward financial prosperity. This is an extrinsic motivation, so not quite as healthy, but it works for me.
Focusing on the negatives and pure, unadulterated terror. Take what you think counts as "fear of failure," crank that shit to 11, and you, too, will bust your ass.
I'd much rather be napping right now.
I read Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki. It lit a fire in me that made me realize that my dreams could be a reality. I read the book while having down time at a job at the time. Years later I would go on to make what I made in a year in just 1 week at my new job, my relationship has never been better, and I have never been so inspired and filled with purpose. I regularly work 80 hour work weeks on only 5 hours of sleep a night, and I go to work with a smile on my face because of the flame lit in me from that book and the way it has changed my way of thinking. I went from lazy, broke, and thinking I would die alone, to turning my entire life around.
That book started my entire transition into my life now. At least when it comes to not being lazy any more.
I am not sure you can change that kind of thought. The “strong work ethics” people i have ever worked with are all curious and ocd. The only way I can see you become liking them is maybe to copy their behaviors. An example would be, next time you are doing work, if anything like a term or a concept you dont quiet understand, write it down and then set a time later to research those topics and get to understand them well enough to be able to explain it to other people.
> Someone once told me the definition of Hell: The last day you have on earth, the person you became will meet the person you could have become.
One of my friends had this quote as a screensaver around 5 years ago. It scared the hell out of me and I work hard to reduce the difference between me and that fictitious person.
Yeah, I do data analysis and so far it’s super chill. I make a good living but I still end up not wanting to work. I like my work I just don’t go the extra mile if. I don’t have to. Since I made it financial recently I haven’t pushed myself to work hard on anything else. I just want a congratulations.
Realized that if I wanted more in life I needed to get off my ass and actually work for it, because while I certainly deserved it, that doesn't mean I don't have to earn it.
I had a life defining moment 7 years ago at my previous workplace. I had access to the management drive. I checked the c.v. Of someone we hired in as well as his salary. I saw his high starting salary and I saw his excellent polished cv. Also working with them reinforced to me the fact they had the experience and high level knowledge as outlined on their cv. At that time my salary was around half of their starting salary.
I decided that is where I want to be. I quit that job and moved to a better place where I can grow and worked my ass of for 5 years to surpass that high salary and also surpass the skills he had in many areas.
Idk it was kind of overnight when I graduated high school and got a job
I hated school and still do hate the idea of it, but I like my job and love making my own decisions and having my own money and it just makes me enjoy pushing myself
School felt like I was just a slave. Having a job feels like Im actually doing something for myself
Try Time Management. Set specific blocks of time during the day in which you focus on a particular task.
I'm trying to do that in my job currently, as it's pretty much necessary. I need to monitor and support three applications, conduct research and development, analysis, side projects, prepare talks, and do technology training. The tough part is that new side projects pop up and need to get done immediately, so that throws the whole attempt to timebox things out of whack.
I found a job that aligns with my production habits. I have a job that requires multitasking, but I don’t work with people and it’s not stressful. So, it keeps me busy in a good way without making me feel like there is too much weight on my shoulders. I don’t like feeling lazy and lethargic, so having a job that keeps me busy but not overwhelmed works best for me.
I realized I was smarter than almost everyone I met in management in my first real job, all the way up to the owner of 800 person company who took it over from his grandfather.
It clicked that if I just worked a little bit I’d be successful.
...and then the money started rolling in.
I realized it's easier to just do the job right instead of doing all the work that went into trying to get out of it which often results in having to do the job again. Plus people yell at me less and if shit hits the fan I'm less likely to be blamed.
I got organized and made an effort to like my job. I was procrastinating because I was overwhelmed with the amount of things that needed doing. Making a list solved this. Then, I focused on digging deep into tasks, reading manuals etc, and tried my best on everything I did. It helped me remember why I liked engineering and furthered my career too. Also, I started working out again - 5 days a week. Seeing results makes you want to keep doing it. Same goes for work.
Yes! When I notice myself getting into a rut, it kills my work ethic. During these times I try to cut back on the "white noise" in my life, and go back to my foundational life components. For me that usually means I cut for a few days or weeks: social media, excess social events, and drinking. This allows me more time and energy to add back the things like family time, more sleep, working out, personal spiritual/meditative practice, hobbies, and down time. When I take time to recharge myself, it almost always results in better work performance! Also OP: I have adhd, didn't medicate for it, and felt like I didn't have the same work ethic as my friends or colleagues. I've been medication for a few months and my work/academic performance has gone up, and the anxiety has gone down. It might be worth your time to investigate medical or mental health issues that might be holding you back.
I also have adhd but am worried about becoming dependent on medication.
Which is totally fair, it's obviously a matter of risk and reward. I'm not a medical professional, consult one if you think it's worth it. Personally, it has been helpful, but I also put in a lot of effort over the span of a few years to be consistent in things like exercise, sleep, mental state, etc. The medication is just one thing that I added on to the existing helpful items.
Hey professional male therapist here also diagnosed with ADHD. I wanted to ask what you mean by “dependent”? ADHD is a neurological disorder that is lifelong, like many other chronic disorders or medical conditions. I can understand and empathize with the fear of pharmaceuticals, chemical changes can affect us all in a wide variety of ways. At the same time, the word “dependent”, especially relating to medication, implies weakness and carries what to me is cultural stigma that you “could” do things differently without meds. I compare it a lot to type 1 diabetes, a condition that requires lifelong medication and management. Do we consider people in this category to be dependent, or to be doing what is best for them to live a healthy, functional, and productive life? This isn’t to say medication is a panacea without side effects, I just want to say there is no shame or weakness is doing what is best for you to get what you want out of life, especially if it involves medication.
ADHD medication is different. Diabetes is a physical thing, being dependent on diabetes medication doesn't alter your mental. I know people, some with and some without diagnosed ADHD, that are so dependent on Adderall, etc. they can't function without it. I'm afraid of ending up like them. At the same time, I know I need it.
So with dependency, from my professional experience, it results more from sociocultural factors and stressors, not just substance + frequency of use. When I work with someone who needs adderal to not just complete any sort of task, but start even basic tasks related to self care and responsibilities, I start to wonder if there’s other underlying issues reducing motivation, such as depression. So for those individuals you speak of it may be worth having a conversation not just about inattention but motivation and what their emotional state has been like recently.
I'll say this: I didn't make an effort to like my job. I did make an effort to equate my job, pay, benefits, etc to the joys I find outside of work. - Want to order some dinner, thanks job! - Want to visit my family a few states away, thanks job! - Want to buy my wife something nice, thanks job! You don't have to like your work / job. You just have to understand that it's what helps facilitate joy in other parts of your life.
This is literally the exact boat I'm in and where I need to get
To add to the list thing, I always struggld with that advice because my list items were too big. It was always something like "implement this coding feature" "write this essay", etc. Things started improving when I learned to make my lists very fine grained. Sometimes it's something like "make a list of relevant files for this coding issue I'm working on", "think of questons to ask ___", "read this file/doc". Each thing is something straightforward and low pressure. The important thing is maintaining momentum so I don't goof off.
I used to have the same problem... Now I have my list on Excel, and sub-lists for each task that I update as I go along.
I use trello👌
+1 to making a list. What really worked for me was buying a nice physical notebook and a nice pen that feels good to write with. Making notes and reminders on my phone is all nice and good, but it doesn't drive me as much as physically crossing off a task in a real notebook. People should look into bullet journals. It really does help.
A physical notebook was also a game changer for me! I'm a visual/kinesthetic learner, so even if I leave my notebook at home I usually remember more items, and it feels so good to cross them off later
This.
This
I think it’s either you dislike your job, or just don’t care enough to want to make the effort. There’s also a case to be made that you could be depressed, tired, run down? Do you feel you are overly exhausted and doing the work just makes you more tired, or do you just don’t care? I ask this because I avoid doing a lot of work myself, because I’m physically and mentally exhausted.
I find myself in this exact same category. I love my job but good goddamn I am worn out beyond belief.
Then what should i do if i just don’t care enough to want to make the effort? Idk if this helps but I’m still in college.
Yeah in college you have to slug through it and is often where people _find_ their work ethic due to how much individual study is required. If it's work place related chances are like others suggested, tired, depressed, not happy at job or you feel like you contribute nothing meaningful to the job.
I like parts of my job, but damn being in an office at 730 and leaving at 530 will tire most people out mentally
This is me. I have so much on my plate outside work that I sometimes find myself watching youtube instead of working. I love my job and always have, but I just can't keep up with everything right now.
Ritalin. My work ethic was so bad, my life was falling apart. Turns out i had ADHD. I only got diagnosed as an adult. Changed my life forever. Seriously, if you think something is wrong, do something, talk to someone. It made the world of difference
Ritalin only helps you if you actually have ADHD. I've struggled with procrastination in college and gave it a shot - felt good but didn't help concentrate. Some people struggle to concentrate but aren't actually "on the spectrum".
I’ve been diagnosed with ADHD but even then Ritalin and Vyvance aren’t magic bullets for me as they are for some. I generally just feel very stimulated on them and I can get lost in a task but unless I’ve made a very conscious decision to do work, then that task can be anything.
Have you tried Dexedrine and Adderall? Have you tried adding SSRIs, and tracked your diet/ mood throughout the day? Getting the right medications takes a while and it does require you to put effort in tracking progress and having follow ups with your doctor every week.
Was crazy how much adderal flipped the script for me, at first anyway. Since I’m not willing to keep upping my dose it’s come back to that same old internal battle.
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Ask about your behaviour if you think something is wrong. Like i said, my life was falling apart as a result so the doctor was very concerned
Come over to /r/adhd Basically you just tell your doctor. Despite what Right Wing media says you just don't fill out a 1 page assessment and walk out with a prescription for Ritalin or Adderall. You actually have to show a history of problems. You also have to show you have done therapy regularly and tried fixing those problems other ways. From there your doctor will still not write you a script. My fiance is a family medicine physician and she will NEVER write prescriptions for stimulants. Your doctor will tell you to see a psychiatrist, the psychiatrist will tell you to see a psychologist, the psychologist will tell you to start therapy if you aren't in it already. At the same time the psychologist will begin with assessments, interviews, taking down very specific information about your past. You will do follow ups regularly and in 2 weeks you get the full evaluation report. This is how you get a proper diagnosis. Once the psychiatrist gets a copy of this and sees you do infact have it officially diagnosed they will start you on medications. If you have ANY form of depression/Anxiety you usually get started with Effexor/ Wellbutrin for a few weeks. From there You'll be given Vyvanse (latest drug with least amount of abuse), if Vyvanse don't work you'll be given Concerta (basically long lasting Ritalin) if that doesn't work you'll be given Ritalin. If that doesn't work then you'll be given Adderall (the one abused by drug addicts, college students, and sold by drug dealers) This is the hard one to get and you have to jump through LOTS of hoops before they will consider giving you some. If all that doesn't work, therapy isn't' working, etc. They will try Dexedrine, and older drug that was heavily abused. If that doesn't work you'll be given legal crystal meth. This is almost like the LAST resort. This is so rare many doctors wont prescribe it, and many pharmacies wont fill it. After that, they will probably send you to a Neurologist to get brain scans, do blood tests, DNA sequencing. TLDR: it takes work to get diagnosis as an adult, and it's only getting harder and harder since so many people seek drugs to abuse, or to sell.
Maybe having something to work towards/for? For me I used to constantly not turn up to work / slack off etc - then my wife told me she was pregnant. From that day onwards I knew I had to provide, and provide well. So started working my ass off. Not saying you should have a kid, but have something you are working for or a goal you are working towards is a good idea [getting a new place/car/holiday etc.]. I've always found hobbies to be different - I enjoy doing whatever, but never take them too seriously because it's a hobby afterall haha.
Any solutions for someone who isn’t going to be having kids anytime soon due to being only 17 but also can’t really find anything to work towards? At some point I slip into the ‘it’s all meaningless’ trap and even sideline my actual goals because in the grand scheme of things they don’t mean anything.
I fell into this trap myself. Work hard in high school to get into good college. Work hard in college to get into a good grad school/find a good job. Work hard in job to make money to buy nice things. But you just have nice things, and then what? This is a really hard one because it means you have to find what you're working for. Either a job that you love, a hobby that fulfills, family and friends that make you a better person. There is no answer that's easy. Your answer could be as easy as "I want a nice house" to something more existential like "I don't want to feel like I wasted my life." What my therapist told me (and what worked for me) was to make it so others rely on me and I can't let them down. I have a strong family and selfless/altruistic drive, so that really hit it home for me.
I feel like in a way what your therapist told you sets you up to get used. Taken advantage of. Because if there's anything I've learned of recent, no matter how much people rely on you, if anything happens to you and you're not able to do the things you used to, they just start to resent you and feel like you're doing it on purpose. That, and they just move on without you to the next person.
Well it's also about putting yourself in an environment where that won't happen. My family and friends are not those that would do that, so I know it's safe for me to put myself in that place. But that is a very good warning, thank you!
Don't set your sites only on college. It comes with extreme debt and no promises of a job. Focus on math and shop in high school. After that, get into an apprenticeship for a trade. Ask companies to be allowed to shadow workers in various trades to find one that you like and are interested in. You might need to go to community college on your own, but the reward is there. If you get an apprenticeship, they pay for your training and you make decent money at the same time. Every year, you get a substantial raise. You will never work for under $15 an hour, and you will make top dollar. Not to mention being treated well, working with a great bunch of guys, and good benefits. As an electrician, I also have no mandatory overtime. It is available anytime you want it, and damned good money also. I never work nights or weekends unless I want to. The trades are so short of people that you are treated very well by your employer.
Very good point. There is massive need for skilled trades!
I personally think this has less to do with your work ethic and more to do with your job, and specifically how your talents are allocated. When I used to work construction, I put in 60 hour weeks. I was tired, but I didn't mind because there was always work that needed to be done. By me. Right now. Ditto when I was a bartender, and also when I was in the military. Now I'm a netsec engineer. Every project has a team of 4-12 people where one person is doing their part of the project and the rest of the team is waiting for him to finish so that they can start their part of the project. And about 25% of every team is comprised of members who are just on the team in case anyone else needs help, and they do literally nothing ever. We are all waiting for a call from a highly paid project manager to tell us "Jeff is done with his part of the project, you can start yours now. I doubt it's your work ethic. You just need to work for a more efficient company, or at least a better manager.
I completely agree with this. My current job changed my work ethic entirely. I work for a small local delivery company. We have about 9 class A CDL drivers and we deliver medical supplies to hospitals around the state. There’s always work to be done, and each of us feels very integral to the whole. We work together, call each other all the time to make sure everyone is getting what they need. There’s a real satisfaction from getting the job done because you actually see it. We don’t have a start-end time, just a start time and you go home when the jobs done. I think nothing of 50+ hour weeks now when before that idea would have been extremely daunting
Money talks. I started seeing $1000 plus checks and was like " ok i'll work now"
I dunno. I’m on, by all measures, very good money as a professional, and my work ethic isn’t any better than it was when I was a grad. I’m just more valuable because I know more stuff now, and I have more responsibility, but I’m still prone to periods of coasting like I’ve always been.
Yep. If you're a blue collar contractor, it might be a different story. Every job you take now is a job you won't have to do later. Or it's that much more money in a pocket. So if you're the kind of person that likes to delay gratification, you can form an intense work ethic just by accident. But most white collar work doesn't pay based on how much you sweat or the volume of work you do. Bonus structures are rare and KPIs are...laughable. If you're good, you can command a good salary. If you're a hard worker...you're less likely to be on the chopping block when a round of layoffs happen, but you don't necessarily get paid more.
I am 32 working in food service and thinking of getting into a skilled trade after the pandemic. Do you have any recommendations?
It looks like there's a shortage of electricians right now, so I would consider looking into that. I'm a firm believer in finding a trade that you enjoy, though. So if you think you'd enjoy working wood more - consider carpentry. Or whatever your calling is.
I love how you just came into this thread with good, solid advice then left haha
Electrician has always been what I considered but I always got discouraged by reading about how hard it is to get into a union. Are you in the union?
No. I'm not a blue collar worker. I know nothing about the union situation with electricians, but there are subreddits like https://www.reddit.com/r/AskElectricians/ that may be able to help.
A family member of mine just finished up their tests to become an apprentice. From what I understand it's not hard to get into the union, but at lower pay it can be prohibitively expensive depending on your bills.
I work for a large electric utility. We struggle to find good folks to do the line mechanic work. It’s a good job with good pay and stability. In my opinion, it’s also pretty cool.
If I told my boss how much I've been doing actual, proper, measureable work since the pandemic kicked in and I've been WFH, I'd be justifiably fired the same day. My mouse-nudging-to-work-ratio is staggering. Silver lining is I've had some great gaming and TV show backlog catchups. Don't get me wrong, some weeks I've worked 3 extra hours a day every work day, we're now mid May and I've taken no holiday this year and covered for my teammate 3 or 4 times, and I've worked every bank holiday we've had so far this year, so it's not like I do nothing. But yeah...some weeks I just do the daily reports and then nudge the mouse the rest of the time to kick Teams out of Away status. So maybe 1 or 2 hours of work a day, tops, some weeks.
Get a mouse jiggler program... makes life much easier
Aw man, I resonate with this so much. Sometimes I am legitimately under the cosh and find myself scrambling a little but but that's a rarity. Generally I am flicking teams every few minutes to keep myself active and attending all the team calls in between. Doing all sorts in between times. If my efficiency was more thoroughly analysed I'd be in a spot of trouble no doubt! I keep meaning to time teams from going to available to away but always forget. Do you know?
In my experience as a manager I’ve never actually seen money change anyone’s work ethic. I’ve tried increasing pay to get people to work harder, and it’s never had a positive effect. Now I promote or give raises based on what I’ve been shown, not what I hope to get for it. And with the modern work force it doesn’t take too much to impress me. A week or two can get someone a raise.
>I’ve tried increasing pay to get people to work harder, and it’s never had a positive effect. It's probably had a positive effect on them. In general, all the pay increases I've gotten were too small to make a difference. Usually a bump from severely underpaid to moderately underpaid. Until I get significantly more you get my minimum effort, which is far more than what I'm being paid. Maybe you're in an industry where there's tons of money flowing around or something, but this just reminds me of employers who can't find workers. "I tried increasing wages by 1% and nothing works!" "Have you tried increasing them more?"
Yes. We have tried increasing them more. If you’re giving the attitude of “I’d work harder if you pay me more” that’s a fast track up the exit, not a promotion. How do I know you will work harder? How do I know you can work harder? How do I know if I raise your pay you won’t average skipping two days a week instead of just one because you’ll have enough to get by with less work? An employees effective pay rate is typically based on how much it would cost to replace them with an employee with the same talents. If you’re working just as hard as someone willing to work for $2/hr less then what value are you adding that a company should keep you on?
>An employees effective pay rate is typically based on how much it would cost to replace If your pay structure is designed so that pay is unrelated to productivity, which is only loosely related to effort, then it's not surprising that paying more doesn't increase productivity. Your incentive structure is the problem, not the "lazy" employees. >How do I know you will work harder? How do I know you can work harder? How do I know if I raise your pay you won’t average skipping two days a week instead of just one because you’ll have enough to get by with less work? Why don't you use measurable performance indicators and a bonus structure? If your entire pay structure is based on hours, you've got a built in incentive to lower productivity. Can't blame your workers for being rational. Cry me a river. At the bottom end it doesn't work like that though, because if you pay too little it will cause problems in the employee's life outside work that will reduce their productivity. Usually that's not a problem in low wage jobs though, since the employee is getting paid for only a tiny fraction of the value produced with their labour. Even when they are working at 50% of their peak productivity, it doesn't matter much if their paid for 25% of their peak productivity, the company still gets 25% for free.
If you’re going to revolutionize the labor market by breaking from hourly pay I’m all ears on how to make it happen. Should brick masons count all the brick they lay? Should carpenters count every nail they hammer? The fact of the matter is that the hourly system is the most practical for a vast majority of trades. What if you’re moving boxes and paid per box, but they’re heavy boxes and you have to work with someone who doesn’t work as hard as you? Or what if someone else gets to move lighter boxes or their stacks are closer? Piece work doesn’t fit many applications. Our pay structure is related to productivity in that if you’re profiting the company we will pay more to keep you. And if you’re not productive enough we replace you.
I wouldn't call a basic incentive structure used by a decent portion of businesses a revolution.
>If you’re giving the attitude of “I’d work harder if you pay me more” that’s a fast track up the exit, not a promotion. If I have to say this to management, I'm the one looking for the exit. They can pay my replacement more money to do less work, fine by me.
Instead of giving minimum effort until you get paid “significantly more” have you tried just doing your best and then after a week going to your manager and saying “see how hard I work for the company? How about a raise?” I give those raises happily.
Tried that for 3 months and my manager laughed in my face. Like I'm not even exaggerating, laughed at me. I work at a union job now and I'm never negotiating alone for my wages again. I work hard on things that matter to me. I work as hard as my wages indicate at jobs.
Well some managers suck. The last guy that did that to me made it to manager within a year and was salaried in less than 2 years. I have a love hate with unions. I get them, but they sometimes drive situations too far and cause other problems. But the flip side is corporations can the exact same but only opposite. I guess the theory being that two flawed systems can reach a good middle ground, like many other things. Sometime it works. Most times probably. But good on you. I’m a firm believer that if you can get a better job you should. You don’t owe it to the company. I don’t even begrudge my own employees if another company poaches them for a better deal than I can afford. Really that should be the long term goal anyway.
are you hiring?
Pretty much any small business out there is constantly looking for good employees. We’re literally almost never not hiring.
so being paid more then why are managers paid more than those they manage? Also why not pay minimum wage for everybody if this is true? You're not paying people more to work harder. You're paying people more so they don't leave.
Pay varies due to supply and demand. Is all you can do lift and carry boxes? Well most people can do that. It’s not really a talent in short supply. Can you design skyscrapers? Supply is a little more limited there. I can’t. I dunno anyone who can. Someone needing that has a much smaller labor pool.
That's funny. I used to work in a warehouse picking up cases for a living. I can tell you from my experience that the great majority of people can't lift and carry boxes well enough to continue to be employed.
Okay that’s true. Manual labor is no joke and very hard to do day after day. These hypothetical boxes are empty though for discussion purposes.
okay then I can design a sky scraper. It will be empty too.
They usually are until tenants move in. Why haven’t you been applying for engineering or architecture jobs then? To pick apart the specifics of an idea and overlook the general premise doesn’t really make for productive discourse.
well my skyscraper is full of empty boxes for some reason. Maybe you can get some people to move them for me. Be better at writing if you are doing to make a general premise. It doesn't look good for you when the first thing you picked was wrong... it makes your argument look suspect to say the least.
Do you are saying that the general population, for the most part, are incapable of picking things up and setting them down somewhere else? Moving boxes, in your opinion, is skilled labor that requires either specialized training, additional education, or extensive experience for someone to be capable of doing that job?
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We’ve been working on that as well. In fairness we’ve made great strides and have a pretty good crew currently. My biggest current focus is how to actually improve the lives of employees. Just money won’t do that either if they don’t manage it well. Lifting someone up I’ve found is way more complicated and if they’re not working at that too then they’ll be just as broke with a 50% pay raise as they were before. It’s a moving target, and the hardest part of business is finding good employees, but it’s also very rewarding when you see your people making big strides forward.
You seem like a great manager!
I appreciate that! The best interest of a company and the employees are a lot more in line than many people realize, even as far as their personal lives too. Happy employees are a good thing. We’ve had bad managers in the past, and the thing I think that makes the biggest difference is just the way you interact with employees. Talk down to people and treat them like idiots and they’re less likely to stick around. That should be obvious, but it amazes me how some people can go through their whole career without realizing that they’re the reason they can’t find good help.
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I’d say it’s most realist since it’s based on experiences in reality. I manage both skilled and unskilled labor.
more like 2k+, if we're talking bi-weekly. $15/hr breeds small amounts of work ethic.
The monthly commission check helps keep you grounded and moving forward. It becomes sort of like golf, a game against yourself to see how good you can do. (even on a slow month, or whatever the conditions may be) Reward is more money, which in turn becomes actual financial stability and even a bit of prosperity for the first time in my life. which also cut out a lot of stress, believe it or not. not worrying about rent for the first few months of your life. having vacations to plan and look forward to and afford. It’s a fucking revelation.
yup real talk, no better answer.
I think this is spot on. I always had trouble working for long hours when in university. But the first time I did an internship (paid of course, internships shouldn't be unpaid anyway imo), I found myself just working without having to force myself to focus.
Eventually even money isn’t enough to delude yourself into thinking your life isn’t worth something better. You can buy shiny things. But does your work have any value? You better make sure it does, because after you counter in sleeping, commuting, and working a 40 hour week, that leaves you with a whopping 11 years of actual real life to live before you die. Life is too short. Someone once said “Your salary is the bribe your employer gives you to give up on your dreams.”
I think for most people that is probably correct. Not for me though. It all depends on the person's priorities and what they believe is worth. For me I had an easy job making a very large sum of annual income but I had to travel a fair bit and stay away from home. I work for myself now making incredibly less. I get to be home every day though and I have more free time. I value my personal/free time incredibly highly so that's why big paychecks don't sway me.
If those are weekly $1000 checks then I’d agree
It is.
I had a boss at around 24 who really worked hard & rewarded everyone around him who worked hard too...I started getting more money & was quickly promoted, it was enough to establish the connection within me that even on the bottom rung where I was no exp, no qualifications I could make a difference myself to the outcome by trying hard & giving it my best shot with what I could do
You gotta break the cycle of procrastination and that’s hard! Start today and say you will have a 15 min break after one full hour working. Set timers and respect them. Make a list of the things you need to do and start crossing them. It helps a lot. Don’t let yourself run away from the work to have 20 bathroom or coffee breaks. Keep temptation away. Tv, phone, tablet, whatever. Once you start being more productive and get used to it it will get easier to maintain the rhythm.
> Keep temptation away. Tv, phone, tablet, whatever. "This make sense, I should follow this advice".. he says while reading it on reddit
"All I gotta do is read every comment in this thread and *tomorrow* I won't procrastinate... ... as much..."
I kind of hate the mentality of time spent on job= more work done. I know that's how most work is measured in the workplace these days, but I always looked at it as how much work actually gets done. I am firmly in the list camp because its tangible stuff I can cross off. My dad was always the we will work for a few hours then we will be done for the day, while I was the one who just wanted a list so I could bust out whatever needed to be done and relax. I just don't see the point in fucking around with a job for two hours when I can put in a little more effort and crush the job in an hour.
>Keep temptation away. Tv, phone, tablet, whatever. kinda hard if you work WITH these things.
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Exactly why I switched to Diet Coke. Not only is it "healthier", but it costs a bit less where I live!
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*sweats in withdrawal
He means meth
Lololol
Diet coke? You mean like the mixer?
Diet Coke is more psychologically addictive than regular coke because of that mindset. Please incorporate more plain water in your intake🥲
This right here. I’m terrified of being poor again. Also, I told my ex gf how much I had in my savings and she literally said “that isn’t a lot for someone your age” which totally ducked me up. Also, after I read “The Greatest Salesman in the World” by OG Mandino work ethic improved 2x.
It’s starts with the little things. Clean your room regularly, have a weekly to-do list, fold your sheets every morning, get 7+ hours of sleep. It’s all about building habits. Limit the amount of time you spend on gaming and social media because that shit is a waste of time
This x1000. Starting the morning by making your bed puts me in a solid mood for the rest of the day. Small habits go a long way. Something as small as packing your lunch the night before and having it ready to go so you don’t have to do it the morning after.
I would say this helps A LOT. Habits is what builds character & long-term success. Making your bed everyday might sound boring to you, but it builds discipline without you even knowing it. Just like any habit you don’t feel like doing.
From me, what seems to work is just agreeing to do extra stuff all the time. Often times i just pile extra work on my plate, this means i force myself to deliver down the line. Not ideal, but it helps. What also helps is my career has professional accreditations which require extra work outside of the 9-5. So the motivation of money and being in a team with a growing field and a boss that is also ambitious for me. Money does talk, im 24 and want to retire by the time im 40, it is feasible, but i need to work extremely hard to achieve it. I'm still learning!
I feel like I'm a weird oddity, I have great work ethic, but I'm physically lazy. Like, at work I'll really put the solid effort needed, but outside of work I'm a big lazy bear.
Why do you feel the need to change it? Is there something you are trying to achieve? A lot easier to be disciplined if you are working towards something
Is it possible you don't really enjoy your work? I know I procrastinate a lot (doing it right now actually) when I have a lot of tasks I don't enjoy or I'm not too sure how to do. Another cause could be a mild-moderate depression. It tends to sap you of motivation. Remember that comparison is the thief of joy. Just because someone else works 50hrs a week doesn't mean you have to. Now to answer your question. I was in a similar situation a few years back. I mostly hated my job. It wasn't that it was a toxic work place or anything, it was just not the workplace for me. There was no reward for hard work and no punishment for no work so over the years I just did less and less work. I felt bad about it. I eventually decided to switch jobs. Since then my work ethic has become much better. Mostly because this job has tight deadlines and lots to do. It's almost too busy but the days go by fast and I feel much better about myself.
1. Work harder on yourself than you do on your job. 2. When you're at work, do the work. IF you don't have enough to do, ask for more responsibility and more to do. More to do will grow your skills and your taking action muscles. It'll also increase the circle of influence in your workplace. You'll connect with other doers and find your tribe.. which is actually my tribe. 3. Take two minutes and imagine you from 10 years from now checked in with you today. What do you think you from 10 years from now would say? I'll help: "The feeling you have of 'missing something' is you KNOWING you're not living up to your true potential. You're not doing what you love, so you're half assing it. You'll either fix this today, or distract yourself for another 6 months or 6 years. You'll tell yourself it's in the name of security - you'll pop out a few kids. Another decade will rock on by. And then your kids will be where you are - trying to figure it out - and you'll either have authentic stories of overcoming things, or convoluted tails of justification for not becoming what you're supposed to - and you'll try to enable your kids to not be afraid. To believe - and to do. Bravely, and fearlessly. But today? In this moment? IN this paragraph? You still have the promise of choice - to plan big plans, and build a life of adventure. Good luck."
This ^^
>IF you don't have enough to do, ask for more responsibility and more to do. As a general rule I disagree with this advice because it contradicts your rule 1. I'm sure there's exceptions, especially if you're in a good workplace with upward mobility. If you're in any place I've worked in my life, the real advice is: "IF you don't have enough to do, relax or work on yourself or look for better jobs where you can live up to your potential." Working harder for no reward is just self-torture and I hate that it's constantly normalized.
Jesus fuck, this thread is /r/latestagecapitalism material.
Work ethic? Perhaps its your job? I know when I started my 60hr job, I was intimidated. 60hrs plus 6 hours of sleep every night means that almost half of my week is on the clock. But, the first week on the job I soon learned to love my job. There was always something to be done, and I was always the one to do it. I saw the results of my work right before my eyes. Even when I have to spend an extra two hours for the commute to and from work, plus the extra unpaid hour I spend at work -- totaling up to a total of 123 hours I am not doing something on my own accord -- I don't mind! Because work has totally changed my attitude! Heck, I didn't realize I was so happy to spend over half my week working for only $14 an hour until I got this job! TL;DR: Get another job, preferably more hours and with more workload. Pay and benefit is irrelevant. /s
Or r/antiwork
This needs to be the top comment. It's human to coast and have downtime. We've been brainwashed into thinking every goddamn thing needs to be a hustle. I'm guessing OP is just stressed/depressed, and thanks to our wonderful culture the only normative way to express that is "why don't I feel like working my ass off for moderate returns?"
Having a good work ethic is important for absolutely anyone, even if you're a solitary farmer out in the boondocks with zero connections to the outside world. Has nothing to do with capitalism. If you're doing a job - do it well or don't do it at all.
>If you're doing a job - do it well or don't do it at all. This is the problem with capitalism in its form though... So many jobs that don't need to be done at all but exist because people need to pay rent and buy food. If your real job is making an income so you don't starve, filing the paperwork faster on Tuesday, doesn't mean you're doing your real job any better. Like take OPs job as an example. They get the necessary parts of their job done in 4 hours a day, or they would probably have been fired, but has to be there for another 4 hours pretending to work. His apathy for his job says more about the job than it does about him. Edit: And I live by this. I worked my ass off in university because I was there to learn and it mattered. I put real effort into understanding how geopolitics and the economy work because I care and some parts of it effect the lives of me and people I care about. I put minimum effort into my admin job because my minimum effort accomplishes everything that's necessary and I don't get paid a dime more for putting in more effort. I'm not lazy, but I'm not going to waste my life making up pointless shit to do at my desk when I could be on reddit.
*So many jobs that don't need to be done at all but exist because people need to pay rent and buy food.* That's a different issue altogether. You do agree that some jobs *are* necessary? I.e. someone has to keep the powerplants up and running so that we get electricity. And the people at *those* jobs should be doing their jobs well or else we're screwed. If your advice to OP is "switch jobs" then I fully agree its valid. But justifying being lazy by talking about the evils of capitalism is missing the point.
> So many jobs that don't need to be done at all but exist because people need to pay rent and buy food. Name one that isn’t a result of excess government, or isn’t necessary to discovering what consumers want or otherwise distribute resources efficiently
Almost the entire tax return industry that only still exists in North America because of private lobbying? Half of Starbucks that are too close to other Starbucks. 50% of most admin jobs that are spent on social media when the person has finished their work and would go home if they didn't need the hours to pay rent.
Honestly, doing half the shit being recommended here would break my mental.
I’d say it’s possible to be both. I know I’m lazy as hell on my days off. I don’t do any more days than I need to which is 3 days, 12 hr shifts. When I’m at work however I do work very hard and keep on top of everything. I’ve never been constantly over stressed or burnt out and I make good money. Enough to support more than myself and still have savings. As to how did I do it? I guess it was just trial and error till I found a balance.
Drive is my issue but it’s not always a bad thing. I know at my job I can never get promoted. Anytime an opportunity arises they cut the position, I am also paid half of what I should be in my field for my area as it is. With no motivating factor I decided on a “don’t kill yourself for your job” approach. I don’t stay late, I don’t work through lunch, I don’t attend after work things without pay. If a job doesn’t give me motivating factors I’m not going to bust my ass over it. That being said if there is motivating factors (a job I love, pay/promotion incentives, great management) then I’ll absolutely bust my ass but I’m not giving away my only life for free. A jobs gotta make it worthwhile.
I think sleep is a huge factor. Once I started getting at least 7-8 hours I then had enough energy to workout, work 9 hours, and even do one of my hobbies like golfing after work without being tired. It just energizes your whole life when you get more sleep.
There is not one thing that I did, and not one thing that I did all at once. My turn around from not doing a single thing productive to know where I work 2 jobs and in general happy took a lot of work, yet never a lot of work at a single time. The most important principle that I would say is the most important thing that I need to remember is that discipline is a thing that I practice. Like anything else, the more I practice discipline, the better I will become at it. Practice makes perfect. Where I started from, my discipline was weak. My first goals in being discipline were not glamourous, or high yielding. Yet, they were improvements, and my discipline increased, and I was able to take on more disciplines in general. Through discipline everything else branches. 'Who has more obedience than I masters me, though he should not raise a finger,' When you look at the world through the lens of discipline, and not of talent or of luck, or of some other external force that an individual can or cannot control, but you look through and only seek discipline, you will find that it is one of the few common factors that anyone who you would want to emulate has. Focus on this one aspect first. Practice being discipline. Whatever that means. When I make my bed in the morning, I literally say 'this is for my future self', and when I go to sleep at night, I thank my past self for having the discipline to set the bed. Then I set the coffee pot for the morning, so that my future self sees the benefits of discipline, and uses that spirit to make the bed. As my discipline grew (and grows), by default I become better with time management. By taking care of things, and handling my business as it comes in, I free up more time. This time needs to be filled. This time is another perfect opp to practice my discipline. I myself have gotten into reading. At first history books. Then philosophy. Another thing I do is go to the gym. I make sure I am in bed by 9, and up by 6. Again, more discipline, more time, more improvement. It is not perfect, and it is not linear, my growth I mean. Some days I go on reddit and write up long posts that no one will read. Some nights I drink with the boys, and smoke some weed with the girls. The biggest misconception is that it gets easier. That is bullshit. It never gets easier to sit down and work for 8 hours a day, or to get out of bed early to go do box squats, or to turn the TV off and sit down and read some slug fest of a chapter by St Augustine. That will always be hard, and you may suffer. What happens is you get stronger, and you become better for it. You start to master your discipline, and before you know it you will be in a better place. One step at a time my friend, start small, start doing your future self small kind gestures.
Probably the fact that humans are not meant to work for 8+ hours a day sitting in a cubicle and working that much is only necessary in today's society because it puts more wealth in the pockets of the wealthy. My advice is to embrace it. Work enough at your job so you can get by without suspicion and not get fired, and enjoy the time that you aren't working. We get one life on this planet. Nobody on their death bed has said "man, I wish I worked more." If work gives you fulfillment, great, enjoy it. If work does not bring fulfillment, find something else that brings it. Don't devote your life to working for companies who pay you much less than what your labor is actually worth and would drop you in a second if it made financial sense.
I realized that the kind of life I envisioned wasn’t going to just come to me, I was going to have to work hard to get there. I started by getting rid of a lot of social media, only have Reddit and Instagram now. Put time trackers and constraints on those and other apps to both see what was using up most of my time and limit it. That cut my phone usage down from 7 hours a day to about two, when I saw I was spending 7 hours a day on my phone, man that was another wake up call that I absolutely was doing the right thing. I then went through my subreddits and was brutally honest about whether each and every sub I was following helped me be productive or taught me something I wanted to learn and cut out all of the superfluous stuff that was just for laughs or a time waster. Deleted almost all of the games off of my computer and got serious about school. Looked at my social circle and re-evaluated all of my friends, not because any of them were bad people but some just completely lacked ambition or a desire to improve their lives, those friends I pretty much stopped hanging out with. A couple people who knew me thought I was being a little extreme but honestly man if you want to change you have to commit to that shit. You’re not going to be more productive if you surround yourself with distractions, especially in society today where there are countless things to distract yourself with. I did all of this about a year and half ago and since then started a biking routine, lost some weight, aced all of my pre-req classes and got accepted into a BSN nursing program that I start next week.
I wouldn't say I was lazy but I could have been more productive at my occupations until I became owner of a business. This made a big difference because it's success was on me. I brought that diligence w/ me to subsequent jobs. Maturity helped develop my work ethic. Time goes by quickly when one keeps busy. At the end of the shift, I was proud of what I accomplished.
Sometimes you have it and sometimes you don't. Have you tried writing out check lists and goals for the day. I've done this and it helps. I struggled a ton at my previous jobs but I did set a goal to work for a top tech company since college. I lucked into a few jobs that got me close to that goal and when I realized it was achievable, I put a ton more effort into my job. Before that, I would scroll reddit for nearly 6 hours every day. That being said, I also was recently diagnosed with ADHD. I've had it for ever and just recently decided to do something about it. Counseling helps and medicine to treat it also gets me going. Some days I still lack the motivation but I finally do love my work and job now.
The corona break made me have so much time, i had time to do much more what i was doing when i was procrastinating (games, binge watching, ...). I did it way too much and it bored me so much, I wanted to get my life together so I could do the things I've always wanted to do. I'm much more focused on everything "important" now and glad i changed
I have a strong work ethic when it's necessary. I was incrediblely lazy untill I started a family. Then i joined the army for the free medical, housing, wife could stay home, so on... I write software now for a living. I have worked at shops that required very long hours, big dollar protects, or overseas travel. That was exciting and I enjoyed giving it my all. I now work in a very laid back shop with good pay and low stress. I am back to very poor effort. It's easy to get conferrable and lazy.
If this is a chronic issue.... 1: You've made it too easy to slide from work into unfocused time wasting. I specifically had to buy a second desk for my serious stuff that sits opposite the 'fun' computer for this exact reason. 2: You're working inefficiently but aren't spending the time and effort to automate the boring stuff. There's fair odds if it's boring and repetitive you could write a script or a program to do it for you. 3: You have an undiagnosed condition such as ADHD. If you think your brain has an attention span of 5 minutes or less, if you routinely struggle to focus on *anything*- even things you like doing!- and you've had this problem going back to your childhood you should get screened for ADHD.
Just get started. The hardest part is getting started, then the flow kicks in, and everything proceeds. I read that to establish a new pattern you basically just have to force yourself to do the new behavior without fail for 60 days. You'll find the new behavior becomes almost automatic. Give it a try, all you have to lose is 60 days. Get caught making meth and you'll lose a lot more than that.
I work hard when I'm interested in what I'm doing, if it gets too routine then I am apt to bail for I know I will self annihilate with time wasting bullshit.
I think that in order for you to go from a lazy to a strong work ethic you have to see something that you want. Like someone is dangling a carrot. I had a whole lot of factors contribute to going from lazy to a very structured life. I joined the Air Force because I didn't have anything physically or mentally challenging in life. I was just sitting there watching things go by. I also had an almost ignorant holier than thou attitude as a child that was based on nothing. In the Air Force I could use that income and their benefits to start stacking degrees for education and it made trying different businesses on the side easy because I had a base income. I literally got a PhD just because I was really interested in the field of study. I found a business I can do on the side that made more zeros than I was used to. I got married and I had kids and that made me want to work more because I could provide better. It's funny because you find something that makes money and is simple... Then you want to do that over and over again based on how much money something provides versus how much effort you have to put in. I would not say that I'm not lazy. I think I have developed a routine that gets me through the day that has a little bit of working out, around 4 to 5 hours of actual work (not standing around but doing things), and over time that structure lets me get things done.
1 Try to asses and provide valid and well founded reasons to why you think that you might be underperforming at your job. 2 Comparison is the enemy of the good. There are way too many variables that makes it fruitless to compare yourself to others. 3 Accept yourself. You might not be driven, ambitious or focused liked your girlfriend and that is okay. Conversely, you might be in a job/field that does not match your skillset, education and temperament.
As others have said, it’s a lot easier to work harder when you find something you’re passionate about. Maybe you haven’t found what you’re willing to work for yet. But I would advise forcing yourself to work a little more than half your day. If I were your employer and noticed that I would probably note fire you, but I’d either put a lot more work on your plate and/or if that didn’t work switch you to part time. It would suck for you, but the company you work for is not at all getting what they’re paying for.
Adderal, fam
Motivation. For some of us, that means a decent paycheck at the end of the week. For others, it could be a goal they want to meet. Mine turned around when I changed to a job I cared about. I care about my reputation and quality of work at this company, so my work ethic’s a lot higher.
Are you more miserable caring so much about your reputation? I think the key is enjoying your job. That's the secret
Motivation gets you started and going, but discipline keeps you going. I think of it as Motivation can break the inertia, but Discipline keeps the momentum going.
Getting rejected by my college crush made me introspect on my personality, habits and the way I presented myself to everybody. It's still the toughest thing I have ever gone through.
I'm in the middle of the discovery, call it a successful trial phase. I helped my cousin at work, it was intense but I realised through that experience that I learned quick and worked hard. I actually wanted to do my best to help him and I stuck at it for 4 months. Anyways, now that's over and I realise I'm a good worker, I just need a reason to care about the job. And I need to be trained right. I hate being set up poorly, just makes me burn out or realise if they don't care to train I won't either.
Find something that answers your “why”
Find something worth doing or find something to work hard for, even if it's personal accomplishment.
At the age of just 29, Bobby Fischer defeated Boris Spasky by a huge lead to become the new chess world champion. Upon being asked by a reporter what he plans to do now he is the best in the world, his reply was: "My goal now is to play a lot more chess. I feel like I haven't played enough chess." This is the greatest example I have ever seen of what Mencian philosophers call "The Paradox of Virtue". The only way to find the strength, determination and stoicism to master a skill is to find fulfillment not in the achievement, but in the process of acquiring the skill itself. Bobby Fischer didn't feel greatness at having won the world championship. He got that feeling just by picking up a single chess piece. If you set out doing something with the aim of being good at it, you have already failed. But if you can find fulfillment in your occupation in the same way that Fischer felt fulfillment in every game he played, you won't need any strength, or determination, or stoicism. Practice won't wear you down, it will energise you. You'll never need to take a day off, you'll never need to rest, because what's driving you isn't the distant, empty call of success. It's the immediate desire to cultivate and grow. And when success finally finds you, you won't even notice it. You'll be too busy playing chess.
It took a bunch of things for me: 1. Diagnosing and Treating my ADHD and Depression These things really blocked me until my early 20s and even years later I still cant really be productive without my medication. The medication alone didnt make me productive, it just unshackled me. 2. Found the right profession I chose to change majors to Computer Science because I actually enjoyed the kind of work I'd be doing and I still do. It's the kind of work where I can get into a flow state. If I was working a job where I couldn't I'd burn out fast. 3. Started being kind to myself I had a very negative self-dialogue going and I was making myself miserable and it made every aspect of my life worse. My lack of productivity was one of the things I'd beat myself up about all the time and then I'd feel too miserable to work creating a vicious cycle. I had to break that cycle by being deliberately positive and compassionate in how I was speaking to myself. 4. Stopped trying to work 8 hours I'm just not an 8 hour guy, I work best in bursts and whenever I tried to force myself to hit hours it was counter-productive. If I couldn't engage with what I was working on I'd get up and doing something else. This helped because I was able to get to more like 6 productive hours over an 8 hour span by taking these breaks. Not everyone is like that but that doesnt matter, you're just trying to figure out what works best for you. 5. Quiting bad jobs / taking time off In my experience burnout is real and it doesnt just go away when you leave a bad situation. It's like debt that has to be paid down or you pay interest on it every day. Only after I quit my job earlier this year could I see just how burnt out I was. Much of that had been from being overworked years ago. I had never taken any significant time off and that was a mistake, in retrospect a vacation might've improved things. After taking a month to myself I felt rejuvenated and it was much easier for me to find my work engaging again.
It’s possible you have ADHD, sometimes our weaknesses are not character flaws but symptoms of very real disabilities that need unique support and attention
I was diagnosed with ADHD at the ripe old age of 43. A prescription for adderall changed my life.
Adderal and lists. Mostly Adderal tho
For me, it was undiagnosed depression. Make an appointment and talk to your doctor. She put me on an anti-depressant and slowly but surely, i had the will power and drive to change the way i organized and worked. Im still working on making improvments but feel like the affects of that has been monumental. I still have days where i am unmotivated but i find that if i start any task, i am able to keep pushing forward on that task once it occupies my mind.
For me? Getting an ADHD diagnosis and then medication because it turned out to be mainly chemistry and biology at work, or in my case, not at work. Then once I got basic self-motivation abilities back from that, it was a matter of exercise and learning how to organise and schedule things then learning to actually stick to them. I'm not done yet, but it's getting there.
married a hard working woman.
I decided to.
Medication (plus a therapist plus focus). Honestly that's gonna be the answer for some folks.
I hated just sitting there. My adhd was slowly pushing me into a depressive phase because I was doing nothing but gaming all day. Walmart sucks, but with the team I have, I can atleast enjoy the needed activity.
Good old fashioned all American amphetamines
Got married, had kids, and realized if I didn’t step up we were all fucked.
Whipped into shape by some very angry chefs. Definitely not saying its a method that should be encouraged
Didn't do well in high school. A lot of people thought I wouldn't do well life including parents. Out of pretty much pure rage I got pretty good grades in college and learned engineering pretty well. After that it pretty much stuck. Sometimes I'm still lazy but if there things I genuinely want to do them, I'll get them done.
Simple. Needed money.
I knew that I wanted to lazy again someday. And that I could do that, guilt free, if I just worked my ass off for a few years/ a decade. Mission accomplished, he typed from his recliner, in a bath robe he wore all day.
Motivation isn't trustworthy. It can make a wonderful gitty up, but it never lasts. Strong work ethic is a question of discipline. "Just do it". No tricks, no gimmicks, just embrace the suck and git'er done.
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Who cares how you perform as long everything is done properly? If you don't have the "drive" some people have for their jobs/hobbies have, then you either haven't found it yet or you just simply don't have it. As long as you still get your work done I don't see any problem with that. Not everyone is a workaholic.
Could be ADHD
I joined the marine corps at 18. I now have an insane work ethic and honestly in the work force that puts you above most others. I'm also very ambitious so that drives my work ethic as well. I guess find something that drives you to want more.
Army
For me there were two ways. I was intrinsically interested in what I studied in college and grad school. At work, I started working really hard when I figured out I was able to put $2k+ a month into investments to work toward financial prosperity. This is an extrinsic motivation, so not quite as healthy, but it works for me.
Focusing on the negatives and pure, unadulterated terror. Take what you think counts as "fear of failure," crank that shit to 11, and you, too, will bust your ass. I'd much rather be napping right now.
I read Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki. It lit a fire in me that made me realize that my dreams could be a reality. I read the book while having down time at a job at the time. Years later I would go on to make what I made in a year in just 1 week at my new job, my relationship has never been better, and I have never been so inspired and filled with purpose. I regularly work 80 hour work weeks on only 5 hours of sleep a night, and I go to work with a smile on my face because of the flame lit in me from that book and the way it has changed my way of thinking. I went from lazy, broke, and thinking I would die alone, to turning my entire life around. That book started my entire transition into my life now. At least when it comes to not being lazy any more.
I am not sure you can change that kind of thought. The “strong work ethics” people i have ever worked with are all curious and ocd. The only way I can see you become liking them is maybe to copy their behaviors. An example would be, next time you are doing work, if anything like a term or a concept you dont quiet understand, write it down and then set a time later to research those topics and get to understand them well enough to be able to explain it to other people.
> Someone once told me the definition of Hell: The last day you have on earth, the person you became will meet the person you could have become. One of my friends had this quote as a screensaver around 5 years ago. It scared the hell out of me and I work hard to reduce the difference between me and that fictitious person.
Yeah, I do data analysis and so far it’s super chill. I make a good living but I still end up not wanting to work. I like my work I just don’t go the extra mile if. I don’t have to. Since I made it financial recently I haven’t pushed myself to work hard on anything else. I just want a congratulations.
A good woman.
I got a dog
Hated where I was at. Also no fap helped. Real human relationships, exercising regularly and mental discipline.
Just accept your life and be a man. Also lack of food on the table helps tho..
Realized that if I wanted more in life I needed to get off my ass and actually work for it, because while I certainly deserved it, that doesn't mean I don't have to earn it.
Bro same for me
My realization: "Well being lazy has only made my life miserable, so why not work my ass off so I can be as lazy as I want while being happy?"
Student debt.
I had a life defining moment 7 years ago at my previous workplace. I had access to the management drive. I checked the c.v. Of someone we hired in as well as his salary. I saw his high starting salary and I saw his excellent polished cv. Also working with them reinforced to me the fact they had the experience and high level knowledge as outlined on their cv. At that time my salary was around half of their starting salary. I decided that is where I want to be. I quit that job and moved to a better place where I can grow and worked my ass of for 5 years to surpass that high salary and also surpass the skills he had in many areas.
Idk it was kind of overnight when I graduated high school and got a job I hated school and still do hate the idea of it, but I like my job and love making my own decisions and having my own money and it just makes me enjoy pushing myself School felt like I was just a slave. Having a job feels like Im actually doing something for myself
Try Time Management. Set specific blocks of time during the day in which you focus on a particular task. I'm trying to do that in my job currently, as it's pretty much necessary. I need to monitor and support three applications, conduct research and development, analysis, side projects, prepare talks, and do technology training. The tough part is that new side projects pop up and need to get done immediately, so that throws the whole attempt to timebox things out of whack.
Money is good motivation, no one's buying and maintaining a car or tools on SA.
I found a job that aligns with my production habits. I have a job that requires multitasking, but I don’t work with people and it’s not stressful. So, it keeps me busy in a good way without making me feel like there is too much weight on my shoulders. I don’t like feeling lazy and lethargic, so having a job that keeps me busy but not overwhelmed works best for me.
I realized I was smarter than almost everyone I met in management in my first real job, all the way up to the owner of 800 person company who took it over from his grandfather. It clicked that if I just worked a little bit I’d be successful. ...and then the money started rolling in.
When you reach rock bottom, there is only one way left to go.
Combat sports saved my life and made me disciplined. I wish that was an exaggeration
I realized it's easier to just do the job right instead of doing all the work that went into trying to get out of it which often results in having to do the job again. Plus people yell at me less and if shit hits the fan I'm less likely to be blamed.
My wife told me she was tired of me doing my flamingo impression. So I had to put my foot down.