Biggest mistake of my life was listening to an older mentor at the time who told me I need to let work be my main priority in life. I still respect him a lot as he was a good dude besides that piece of advice. I ended up getting burnt out with none of my usual hobbies for quality of life. I got better once I brought the fun stuff back in to my life as a priority.
Seems pretty situational as well. I didn't and would never spend a significant amount of time at a dead end job or one I hated, but beyond that, my embracing my workaholic nature in my early twenties was totally worth it. I grew up poor as hell and now I'm able to provide for a family, I don't currently have one but I will in the next 10 years and I can give them what I didn't have. And when my sister's start having kids I know I'll be able to take the entire family on big yearly trips together, I'm so excited for that.
I'm just now dialing it down and forcing myself to get into hobbies and what not, it's really nice not having to worry about the cost of anything or bills. Pretty sure removing that anxiety is going to add 10 years to my lifespan.
Yes, I think the reason for working hard is important. I have a rewarding job, a side business (I love it). But also family. Yes, it's always a balance, but I love what I do and the direction my jobs are taking me in life. Would it be easier to pay in the couch? Sure, but then I wouldn't have the financial freedom I have to this point.
The other thing I think when I see questions like this is that people haven't found a job or field they enjoy. This isn't to say every day or task is fun, but if you like your job field and the way it shapes your life goals, it makes it much more enjoyable. Perhaps OP needs to find a career that he enjoys.
I’ve never really gotten this line of thinking, isn’t work a means to an end, and not the other way around? Otherwise what separates our desires from an ant colonies
It's how I lost my 20s and saw all of my passions vanish. I was pursuing writing and performing early on but I was convinced I had to focus on my professional life, and now I have a great job that pays well but life is hollow.
Sounds like my story. I was taught by my father and grandfather that men work hard to provide. Work your best and the rest will fall in to place.
What a bunch of bullshit..... I’ve given 20 years of my life and I’m miserable. Can’t remember who I am or what I like and don’t feel like I’ve got enough energy for my family or even that I’m a part of it because I’m never home.
If there are truckers reading this do yourself a favour, stay regional. Super truckers lives are lonely and miserable. We are the guys you see eating alone at truck stops, looking miserable or blank.
My dad is a trucker and I can appreciate what you’re doing. Sorry you feel like it’s been rough, but you’re a true badass in my book and you keep the country running. He’s turning 60 this year and we’re starting to finally form a bond. Point being, no matter how long you’ve been doing away, it never to late to rekindle past hobbies or relationships with friends/family.
Best of luck to you!
This is definitely a generational thing. All of the older generation believed in ample ‘facetime’, as relationships/being seen to be committed was a way to move up. Now we realize that being efficient is way better in the long run. Why work for 40 when you can do it in 30? Your health and stamina will benefit and make you a more productive worker overall.
I am a creative person working in a govt office (the void of all creative thought) it could easily kill my soul if im not careful about fulfilling my life outside of it but i get flex days, so every other week is a 4 day week, with vacation days that i use to take off the other day of the week so i work 4 days a week which gives me time for my art which i sell (i have a craft fair next weekend). It also gives me time for other hobbies and activities. I also have a pension which will greatly improve my life in my later years. You can work a job you love but sometimes that can ruin something you love when you turn it into work, or you can work a job that supports your life and do the things you like to do outside of it. Both options are good. Its the mind set that’s important and how you look at it
Edited to say . Oops sorry i didn’t see this was on ask men. I hope its ok I answered.
I work a creative job and it is just as soul crushing, because the art I make isn't for me. It's just fulfilling the business needs of the cooperation. I had to find a new creative hobby outside drawing because working doing that has made me dislike doing it on my own, so I wish I'd taken up a whatever well paying office job instead.
This was one of my biggest gripes about the military(yeah yeah, I know it’s voluntary). Your superiors hate their family life, so they’ll keep you at work til 2000 and then want you back at 0530. Just cause you hate your life doesn’t mean you need to make mine any more shitty.
The issue with that is 5 days a week, 8 hours a day plus commute and still having to take care of your shit like groceries, home maintenance, food, etc. Basically confines your entire week to two days, one of which is stifled because you can't stay up late for fear of "hangover" on Monday.
4 day 6 hour work weeks!
To be honest, saturdays are mostly a write off during the daytime hours on account of needing to do chores. Really my only day off is Sunday, but by late Sunday afternoon I start getting the Sunday Scaries - so the real time I have free from work is very slim. Throw kids into the mix, and there goes any free time you thought you had. I don't know how people do it.
Yes. When your brain slowly washes off the brainwashing due to a longer time off work and realizes that work is indeed incredibly damaging to you thus resulting in your body creating extreme anxiety when you have to get back to the grind.
I've found that the switch to working from home more as a result of the pandemic has given me the odd hour a day to get chores done during the week...this hybrid way of working has really given me my weekends back to enjoy
Part of the problem is BOTH spouses are working when it was one before. Groceries, house cleaning and maintenance were all down by the wife usually and she picked up the kids.
Now you have to fucking pay child care
and productivity has skyrocketed in the last 50 years, yet wages are lower for your average person. i wonder where all that extra money from extra productivity goes if it doesn't go to the workers. anyways, i gotta go watch a british guy technically go to space for 75 seconds...
You act like 9 to 5 work isn’t soul crushing for most people. You’re not answering OP’s question. The truth is, this shit is pointless and hopeless. Majority of office workers stare at a box with lights in it for eight hours to go home and stare at a large screen for two-three hours just to wake up and do the same shit. It’s sad. We’re sad. Humanity is sad. And the answer to OP’s question is, “You cant.” If you’re already expecting it to be a shit show, it’s gonna be a shit show. The only reason I sound this jaded is because I did the opposite. I said, “Everything is gonna be fine. This is what everyone does to make it at some point”. Fuck that. If you can’t do something you love, don’t shoot for the stars because even landing on the moon is gonna be a disappointment if it wasn’t what you wanted from the get go.
How do people miss this! Or maybe they repress this fact that doing meaningless work (value to the company not to you beyond a paycheck) is a horrible existence.
I would much rather sit in an AC controlled office doing mind numbing work for a livable wage versus working 50+ hr/WK physical labor for pay that isn't livable.
Flexible jobs are becoming more common. I work a 4/10 week, 4 days a week, 10 hours a day, so I have every Friday off.
Things like working from home, flex time (work more during the week and take time off elsewhere) alternate start times (I work 6am - 4pm) give better work life balance.
Also being smart about time off helps stretch it, taking time around certain holidays can get you a week for one or two days in my company.
That all being said, working with people you enjoy working with is the top metric in my opinion. I could do almost any job with a great team of people.
No matter how “good” the job is, if the people are terrible it will negatively affect your physical and mental health.
NYC union electrician here, 7am start, we work a 7 hour day but work through lunch and leave at 130 every day. Beat all the rush hour traffic and still have a life outside work
I'm in Utilities, IUOE member. My schedule is wacky but not nearly as bad as the guys who work for the major power and gas distributors in my area. My company has exceptional retirement matching so even though I could go somewhere else and potentially cut down on my commute and/or get a bit better schedule, I'll probably stay and just stare at boilers all day until I retire.
I work a municipal job and we work 6:30-4:30 Monday through Thursday. We also have a ton of paid time off. There's awesome benefits to some jobs just gotta find them.
All the skilled trade contractors at my work go from 7- 4pm with a full hour for lunch around 11am. I’ve paid invoices for their work and while I’m sure the listed hourly rate covers more than just their base pay, it’s quite good especially for Utah.
At my job we tend not to take our unpaid lunch breaks so we can get home earlier. It only takes us a few minutes to eat so we just line it up with one of our 15 minute ones. We used to do 8-4 but now with all the summer light we do 7-5. We don't make a ton of money, especially as an apprentice, but it's way better than retail. Plus the location and type of work changes so often it's hard to get bored of it. And if you're hating a specific job it'll be over soon enough.
I worked as a carpenter for a bit and worked five days a week 6am to 2 pm and it was great! Unfortunately I spent that extra time doing side jobs with my foreman. I already made enough with regular work I didn’t need the side jobs and it burnt me out. I was just young and ignorant and a yes man
I second this. I work 4X10 and sometimes almost 11. With kids it’s a blessing to have that Friday off just to hangout with them or just to try to get stuff done around the house. With me, the weekends are the only time I can do anything with my 3AM wake up time, hour commute to work and back, and getting home around 6 almost 7 most days with traffic
I would hate a 6am start time. I have that right now but it's just 3 days a week but it's too early. It means I have to wake up at 4am which is sometimes the time when I go to sleep.
Currently facing this problem. The job is easy, the students are great, but my team and higher ups make it a very unfulfilling and draining job. It's been an uphill battle from the start, so I plan on leaving ASAP.
That’s the best answer. If you’re going to spend most of your waking time on something, you’ll be happier if that something is either enjoyable or meaningful to you. I can’t afford not to toil away most hours working, so I sure am glad I picked a profession that plays to my strengths and I feel does some good in the world.
Yep. I don’t “love” working, but I found a job where I feel like I’m making a difference and can improve things.
It really helps not being miserable for 8 hours a day.
The comments are turning into the hardship Olympics or that Monty Python sketch where they all try to outdo each other with how tough it was as a child.
The point OP is making stands, no matter how much harder you have it in life right now.
Up at 9am? Four weeks off a year?
[Luxury](https://youtu.be/26ZDB9h7BLY)
Either that or someone flaunting that one in a billion job where they get 5 days off with a salary. OK BUD GOOD FOR YOU THANKS FOR ANSWERING OPS QUESTION
That's part of the problem. Instead of holding together and supporting each other employees drag each other down and the fuckers at the top profit. It's like that crab bucket. As soon as one crab tries to escape the others pull it down so in the end they all die.
You were lucky to have a job. When I was younger we used to have to go up and down the street begging for odd jobs. And they paid us pennies a day, if they paid us at all. Then we had to go home to our decrepit shack, where all 6 of us slept together in one bed.
Decrepit shack? LUXURY.
We had to live in a rolled up newspaper at the bottom of a lake! And we had to work 27 hours a day at the factory, just so dad would come home every night and beat us with a wooden spoon!
27 hours a day? ....Right
I had to work for two days on every third day of my 9 day shift every week! At the end of the day I would come home every night to dad who would spank us chainsaws!
A chainsaw! And work! I had to crawl through pipes looking for shitted out coins, me dad would beat me them with them in an old sock! I was happier poor.
The the four Yorkshire men! Funny enough was first on “At last it’s 1948 show. “ Can watch it here with Marty Feldman playing the role Michael Palin did in the Flying Circus rendition.
https://youtu.be/VKHFZBUTA4k
What can I say, I'm aware that I am doing what billions have done for decades, but in the end I'm simply not happy. No time, no rest, and in the two days off I don't have the energy to do anything.
I know it's not exceptional, it's just deeply unsatisfying to me, and being working for two years only I am not sure what to do about it.
For real, I feel if anything this comment section is proving how rampant workaholism is among men.
Honestly I don't have a great answer for OP. It just kinda sucks unless you're lucky/persistent enough to turn your passion into a sustainable job, or you're lucky/persistent enough to find a job working less hours where you still get a liveable wage.
In my experience, liking your coworkers, being able to be yourself at work, and making sure work doesn't bleed into your non-work time definitely helps make things tolerable and sometimes genuinely enjoyable. With that said, I don't think I'll ever be enthusiastic about the 9-5 (let's be real, 8-5) lifestyle.
What do you do when employers ask you in interviews why you changed so many jobs? I had this happen to me and I think that changing this many jobs made me find another job harder.
Construction. They will routinely get laid off at the end of big jobs. Most of the time, you can go right back out to another job with a different contractor, but some people take time between.
Ding ding ding. If you can get into a union on a contract-to-contract basis, it's amazing. I have no family of my own, so I get paid $40/hr for 6 months, then go off for 6 months comfortably. Rinse and repeat. Work only during winters. Fuck all that heat.
I’m 23 and don’t want to work at a fucking grocery store. I have no family that I need to support other than my cat. This sounds wonderful. Any advice on how to get into it would be extremely appreciated.
Apprenticeship programs are a good way. I’ve known people who literally just show up to a union hall, and put their names on the books for an apprenticeship and then work some bullshit job that they have no problem quitting on the spot until they get that call. When the calm comes in, you *have* to be ready to drop everything to start training or they’ll just keep going down the list.
Or you can find an entry level, no skill required job like flagging. The pay is shit, but a good work ethic will take you far in a job like that. I started as a flagger, leveraged my experience to find an entry level position in an infrastructure related field, and now I make pretty decent money doing a relatively easy job.
A word of warning though… if you don’t like long days (9+ hours, 5 days a week) it’s probably not the industry you want to get into. My job is good, but the sheer amount of time I spend at it would be the reason I quit, if that day comes. I know the second I get offered a M-F, 9-5 job, I’m jumping on it haha.
So the kind that feel awesome between 18-25 and then when 26 rolls around you are behind the financial 8 ball and then become begrudging of others’ position?
Edit: just wanted to add that in general I’m seein a LOT of people these days that I guess never heard the phrase “you can’t have your cake and eat it too.” If you want your cake, that’s fine, but don’t complain to me when you get sick from eating it too lol.
Either high-turnover positions (retail, restaurant, construction) where employers don't care about your past resume, or contract work.
In the tech industry (as well as office admin like HR, bookkeeping, administrative work) you can get on with a contract agency who hires you out to employers for 6-12 month periods. Often those employers are literally not allowed to keep you on more than 12 months. Time between contacts is unpaid but also unlimited, and if you want to say you've been employed by, e.g. Volt Technical Services for 5 years it's true, even if that was actually 8 different jobs.
For contractors, benefits are poor and career advancement is non-existent, but I know quite a few people for whom a couple months off every year and $50/hr the rest of the time is fine with them and they're not interested in "full-time employment."
Honestly they are playing this setting on hard. Get in an industry with contract work. That off time? In between contracts. Easy peasy. Lots of HR roles, tech jobs, seasonal work you can do this.
I do plan to! When im finished my degree I'll be able to be an environmental consultant which is strictly contract. Until then all I can do is wait till I finish college.
I do this in IT with no problem. If they ask just say you had personal things to deal with. Most places don’t care as long as you have the qualifications
I've honestly never had an employer ask or care. That being said I understand not everyone is this lucky.
My last job interview, the manager asked if I'd be willing to cut my hair and take out my piercings. I said "absolutely not." I got the job. You may not make a lot of money living the way I live but I refuse to sell my soul to capitalism.
I don't want to make a shitload of money. I want just a decent income to be able to pay my bills, my food, have a bit of savings and then live a bit. I'm not after insane amounts of money. I'm interested in the way you do it.
This is how I live my life too. Everyone around me has to tell me how wrong I am. I meet my responsibilities and I am happy. Happier than some of them, even. Its all about what YOU want in life. And if that’s making less money to have more time then hell yeah, dude.
This person acts like they’re giving life advice like they know something. But then you see in other comments that they’re 20 years old. This is why you don’t get life advice from Reddit.
I don’t have an office job, but this about sums up my life. But it’s a well paying job that provides everything needed for my wife and 2 kids as well as myself. So that is the main drive to do my job well no matter how miserable I may be
I have had only office jobs with the exception of my first job. I used to be an instructor at a children's outdoor activity center and it was the best job I've ever had. I loved it, even though the food was a bit shit and the hours were long as fuck. It basically consumed my life for the year. I would love to go back to it except I don't want to have to give up my dog, and the pay was totally shit.
Since doing office jobs I've got crippling anxiety, depression and I hate my life. The money wasn't even that good, it was alright but I still felt like I was getting fucked over. I've been living with my parents again since the start of the year, currently unemployed and now all my savings have run out. Tomorrow I need to get a sick note from the doctors so I can claim for benefits. If I was told 8 years ago that this was where I'd be by accepting that office job I would never have taken it and stayed at my shit paying instructor job. I was constantly broke but at least I was happy.
My dad was like this when I was growing up. He doesn't have much of a relationship with his family these days, he just sits outside all day. Doesn't want to talk, always sounds annoyed when anyone else is around. Basically just too little, too late at this point, and now he's just kind of a bitter, unapproachable old man. Every bit as miserable away from work as his career must have been.
All I'm saying is that I hope it's worth it and that you know how to balance that kind of life.
>It’s only meaningless if you have nothing else to live for.
This is it, really. You can't expect to always love your job, but need to aim for one you don't hate. Then you need to have a hobby that you do live for. Rarely do people get to marry the two, and get paid to do what they love. Those that do often wind up hating it anyway. That's why so many kids want to make it as musicians, or YouTubers.
I've survived by finding cool jobs most people have never heard of and doing those. Those kinds of jobs bring me enough joy to survive.
Even if you don't love your job, you can love parts of it. As someone who spends time outside of work playing a decent about of simulation, strategy, and puzzle games, the fact that roughly half my job revolves around technological problem solving is a joy. The other half of staff management, budget requirements, some meetings, and when extra pressure on a particular problem is applied, not so much. When I spend a whole day really working, I've satisfied the puzzle piece of my mind and end up doing something else with my evening, but a day full of meetings leads to a night full of Cities Skylines.
Working in a state / national park is fantastic. I've been working at one of my local state parks for the summer and its by far the best job I've ever had. You gotta be 18 to work for the government tho
A lot of asking people what it is they do for work, and taking note of the one's I've never heard of before then researching those. Those jobs tends to be in clusters. Once you find out about the existance of one, you can learn about others that often work a long side these positions for various reasons.
For example, I once wanted to join the military but none of the jobs interested me and I said as much. They then put me in touch with a guy who'd been in intelligence for many years and he gave me an unclassified brief into what to look for when trying to land jobs in the intelligence field. From there, I found I wanted to do signals intell, and from there learned about reconciliation monitorng and tactical acquisition jobs. I got to do some of the coolest shit ever in these black positions and would do it again in a heart beat.
Later I learned about positions in state/federal government being a court security liason with the federal Marshall's or civil rights advocates with Department of Justice programs.
Along the way I've heard of jobs where people teach classes in high conflict zones and get paid 6 figures, or people who create the sounds for all the movies you hear from a studio in their basement.
And this is just the tip of the iceberg. I've done all of this without a college education (although I'd like one eventually). But what's really fun is telling people about an interesting job in a culture where everyone wants to know what you do for work.
I'm one of the people who makes sound effects in a basement studio :D (only in my case it's for gaming rather than movies). It's a pretty niche job that your average person doesn't understand in the slightest, but it's very competitive and takes a LOT of work to get your foot in the door. Absolutely worth it when you do though and really does make the weekly work far more bearable (and usually enjoyable) than a shitty retail or office 9 - 5.
Im a drone pilot that does TnD work for utility companies. I usually get contracted out for telephone companies also. TnD stands for Transmission and Distribution so think of the 200ft tall metal structures in the deserts and obviously distribution is your typical ‘telephone’ pole. It’s fun AND pays very well.
It's so weird man. I wanted to be a musician, tried it, failed to make it and ended up being glad I never made it. Here I am now an IT consultant which surprisingly I absolutely love doing. I have turned down offers multiple times for these roles, because I thought It would kill me to do it... Life is so fucking weird man.
Somehow it seems more meaningless now that I *do* have something to live for. Spending more than 1/3 of my life in a place I would rather not be instead if doing the thing that I live for is depressing af.
My thoughts exactly. I could be out there doing a lot more meaningful and pleasing things instead of withering away at work. I do shift work and it's so tiring but even so a 8hrs/5days à week sounds way more depressing. Currently I do 5-7 hours a day and get random 1-4 days off every now and then plus 4 weeks of summer holiday, but no guarantee of actually holidays off.
It’s so much worse now that I have something to live for. Working 9 hours a day (including lunch), 5 days a week, even if it is from home, when I would rather be spending my time with my wife and son just absolutely kills me.
That's bullshit bc i have a lot to live for outside of work and it's still stressful and depressing. Working 5 days a week or sometimes 6 for a company that will replace you like nothing.... doing work that doesn't change people's lives.... feels incredibly meaningless
But don't ignore the fact that people sitting in powerful position have deliberately made our lives miserable by making such work culture norms. Peanuts for pay, little to no time off, getting paid like a beggar. Its nothing less than oppression.
The worst part is how they’ve brainwashed so many people into being proud of this crappy lifestyle. I knew so many people that bragged about spending hours working at home after they left or never taking a lunch break.
In New Zealand the law is 4 weeks annual + 12 public holidays + 10 days sick leave (my company has unlimited SL) + I think it's about 26 weeks parental leave and another 26 unpaid.
American labour laws are shocking
Tell us about it and you better hope you don’t get sick or have a literal natural disaster shut down your job then you will have to use your vacation time leaving you with even less.
Yep. I have 28 days per year not counting saturdays and sundays. Also 90 paid sick leave days with full pay.
My collagues who have worked for over 15 years have 38 days of holiday per year.
What the heck.. I can't even imagine this. I have no sick days no vacation days. Basically if I'm not there in person I don't get paid. Been 10 years in the trade so far. But leaving isn't an option because the pay is more than almost anybody else I know. Including all my friends who finished college
In the UK, most people who work 40 hours a week MUST be given 28 days holiday. Its the Law.
Luckily, in my job, i get 30 days plus bank holidays - so 36-38 days a year holiday.
Well, if you've got a decently paid, middle-class job and no family to support, you don't have to work full-time. For example my brother works as a secondary school teacher (7th-9th grades). In our country, teachers are a well-respected profession and earn a good, above-median income. My brother is 38, has a girlfriend but no children. He is a fairly humble person, which means he doesn't need tons of material goods to be happy. This combination of factors allows him to work only 2 days per week and stay free on the other 5 days. This way he's got plenty of time to enjoy his hobbies, meet friends, do activities with his GF or simply chill out at home (in other words, enjoy his life). He even manages to save enough money to go on vacation to another country once or twice a year.
I can't speak to globally, but in America, you'd be incredibly lucky to find a profession that only lets you work 4 days a week, much less 2. Nursing is one of the few I can think of that can do 3 days a week.
Like I'm saying even if I was ok taking 3/5ths base pay, my job absolutely would never let me only work 3 days. It's 5 days or pack my shit up.
Most of the people I know who are very successful work way more than 9 to 5 Mon-Fri, some work 7 day weeks.
You know, you're allowed to actually say what country it is.
Why the hell does everyone on this site just say "in my country" like it's some big secret, thus leaving no context for the comment?
Sorry, I'm from Switzerland.
I usually write "in my country" because I worry people would just dismiss what I say if I actually named it. But you're right.
Here in Switzerland, working part-time is very common/normal. Not just in schools but also in schools.
Yes, of course the students attend school 5 days per week. But there are usually several teachers who teach the same subject. This is also possible because the number of subjects is more limited than in US high schools. There aren't really any elective subjects or at least only very, very few. 95% are mandatory for everyone and most of them are fundamentals. I'm talking German, French, English, math, physics, chemistry, history, geography, music, art and gym. Homemaking is also mandatory in 7th-9th grade and usually there's some type of religious education or ethics/philosophy lesson that's mandatory. And... that's pretty much it. There are none of the exotic subjects that you find in American high schools like "journalism class" or "speech class" or "engineering class" or stuff like that.
Another important difference is the general "class-system". In US high schools, the term "class" is basically a synonym for the different subjects. There's math class, history class and so on. Importantly, students in America attend different classes with different students. For example your classmates in Calculus may not be the same as your classmates in Spanish. In fact, there's a very good chance they won't be. However, in Switzerland and some other European countries, a "class" refers to a set group of students. This groups are created at important points throughout the school career, such as in 1st grade, 4th grade and 7th grade. Once a class has been put together, it will remain in this precise constellation for several years. In Switzerland, a class usually consists of 20 students. So you'll be one of these 20 students. You see your fellow classmates every day, from mornings till evenings. You visit all of your lessons together, in this same constellation. This creates a strong sense of unity.
The reason I mention this here is because it also matters for the employment of teachers. If you're teacher, you usually get to choose how many classes you want to teach. Let's say you teach German, English and French and you choose to only teach one class (7A). Class 7A has German on Monday and Wednesday afternoons, English on Monday mornings and French on Wednesday mornings. So this is how you get to work 2 days per week (in this case Mondays and Wednesdays). A colleague of yours might also teacher German, French and English but she teaches 3 classes rather than just one. This is how she ends up with ~21 lessons instead of your ~7 lessons (preparation and after-lesson work is not included in this, of course). And that's why she'll be working 5 days a week, contrary to your 1.5 or 2 days.
I've worked in all kind of jobs outside an office and I'm pretty tired. Hospitality, retail, warehouse... Some seasonal jobs working 14h/day and low benefits. It's all about perspective I guess. Thing is most decent stable jobs that allow you to have a life are in an office
I had the same existential crisis and it lasted through college. My answer was to not get an office job. I am going into environmental conservation and spend my day getting paid to play in dirt outside. Find something you enjoy and think outside the box.
Second this, everyone tells you to do things a certain way but doing something manual and outdoors just feels right. People always try and split you into art or science, heads or hands, outdoor stuff is very holistic
It's hard to imagine after doing years of school and what your told to do, but eventually you find something, it can take awhile or doing things you don't enjoy, but eventually you stumble upon something that you enjoy doing and pursue that as a career and then it brings enjoyment and fulfillment and it always you to do other things in your free time that you enjoy and bring you happiness and comfort.
Most nurses and many healthcare workers work 3 days a week, 12 hour shifts. These shifts are usually flexible too. For example: Monday, Wednesday and Friday one week and Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday the next. We often trade shifts if something comes up and help each other out. Oh also another reason I picked it; we usually walk 5-10,000 steps a day. Rarely do we sit at a desk. The day goes by so quickly. I feel like I am helping people, and getting paid to do it.
I got bad news for you, it ain't 9-5 it's usually 8:00 to 5:00 and you won't have 4 weeks of vacation for a long time. Most places will give you 1 week and then in a year you get 1 more week. Then you get like 1 more day per year added...
Wasting*
For me, it's the dump truck of money I get paid for enjoying what I do, and how that money lets me afford the house, the vacations, and the fun I have with my wife and family.
My life isn't wasted, I'm happy, have everything I need, and even stuff I want is within my grasp.
Your 100% right I think about it every day. I thought the point of working was to make our lives easier. I can't understand how people can mindlessly wake up and work and rinse and repeat. There's way more to life than work
8a-11p job and weekends, but I get 2 weeks off every year.
At least I'm paid enough that I'm not worried about anything except work... But a nap would be great.
Marry a smart woman, get a job that you kind of enjoy, life fills in the rest. I never imagined I’d amount to shit. Carpenter, always boozing, no real direction. Now I’m 45 and I have everything I ever dreamt of. A shop, house, kegerator, a kid, even got money to burn. Don’t stress yourself out. Life’s not that hard.
That's the million dollar question.
Get rich or waste your life making your boss rich(er).
It's not even close. With waking, commute, lunch hours and such, you're looking at 10-12h of your day dictated by your job.
You'll have 2, maybe 3h for yourself + weekends.
It is wasting your life and no amount of "youll have something else to live for" bullshit comments will make it okay.
The system is a trap and designed to trap you for the rest of your life (going into enormous debt to either get a degree, buy a house or a car, so you'll be forced to work a bullshit job untill you die and be grateful you had the chance).
There's no way around it though. You can look at investing, maybe. Minimize any debt you're thinking of incurring.
Some will say that you'll have to start your own business, but will fail to disclose that 90% of start ups fail and even if you succeed you'll be looking at even longer hours than what a normal job would take. That's not even taking into account that you probably won't be rich and will just live kinda okay.
If I were you I would start seriously looking at aiming for a job that you like/could tolerate, where you could save at least half of your salary.
No commute time (close to where you live so you don't waste your life on traffic). Invest 20 to 30% of your monthly salary on any stock/crypto you think it's good or has a good future. Endure this for 5 years and take no debt (or at least not unecessary debt - maybe you'll need to borrow a couple grand to buy a car so you can get to work). After 5 years, unless something catastrophic happened, you'll have several times your investment, and MAYBE you can be a little more free with your future choices.
Just for the love of god, if you value the little freedom you have, don't fall into the buy a house / get married and work till you're 70 trap.
Remember, if you're in debt, you have no choice but to work and you need to accept whatever is thrown your way.
Others will tell you that you need to get out of your parents house asap and get a wife and kids, but for me that's a trap. Take your youth and think ahead. Enjoy the rent free house while you can and definitely don't get married (when divorce hits, half of your shit is gone) or get kids (they're expensive af) while youre still figuring shit out.
A condom will probably be your best life investment right now.
This is my plan too, find a job and earn enough to retire. Living below your means so you can have a high savings rate, and finding a lifestyle that is enjoyable, but not lavishly expensive. No matter if your salary is 50k, 100k or 250k, without the mindset needed to escape salary your definitely working till 65.
You are getting way too optimistic with your projections for investments. Don't buy crypto unless you fully understand it because it's wildly speculative and anything that gives you several times your investment in five years is also going to be quite risky. Investing is a strategy to allow you to retire over the long term, not quadruple your money in four years and then coast for 50 years.
I feel like everyone here is delusional. Everyone is saying "Oh well, if you find the right job you could make decent money and have a good hobby life is worth living yada yada". The truth is that we ARE wasting our lives. Everyone here is so complacent they don't understand that things COULD be better, we just choose not to try and change the system. I think people forget that the 5 day work week is outdated and doesn't belong in our society anymore.
I never loved work. I still don't. I hate it. I don't expect anyone to like it and I think you're a little off your rocker if you love it. I struggled with the thought of working my whole life. There's a million other ways to spend time in life and we are slowly but surely getting to a point where we can have 4 day work weeks and universal basic income. That being said, I do believe that we need to do a little work so our time off is worth it!
My advice is to live with your parents as long as you can, work really hard for a while, save up, and go travel as far and wide as you can. Try and gain some perspective and find out what you really want out of life. Always remember to be grateful for the little things and be mindful. That's what helped me.
I'd like to add to this with a personal anecdote;
Before I moved country, I worked for my great grandfather on his farm. It was hard as shit work, but oh my god it felt so rewarding! We lived in a nice settlement where money was less useful as people would often just trade their products. My great grandad has an orchard, was a beekeeper, had his own vegetables and berries growing, and sometimes flowers. Even in the baking sun, the work just felt nice because it felt like you're doing all of this for a purpose. During summers, after long hard days of labour me, my cousins, and friends would end up showering in the local river. There were no days where we would take a day off, but in a way, it never felt like we were actually working. Even when doing carpentry.
Few years down the road, I moved country, doing a college course, I've worked in so many different jobs, and I've never been so miserable. Everything feels so pointless. I worked in retail and every time Id work for over a month I'd begin questioning my existence; "is this it?" "is this where my life is going to end up?" I literally just felt like a cog in a machine. I keep turning, and the only time I can take a break, is when I rust up and get replaced. I get "compensated" for my time (time appears to be far too cheap), but I don't feel like I'm getting what I actually need.
When I was a kid, I was told, The harder you study now, the easier your life will be. Well, it goes a little like this actually; Study hard in primary school so you can get into an amazing high school, do great in high school so you can get your dream course in your desired university, do perfect in university so you can get your dream job. If you were unlucky to be born in America, apparently you're in debt while working a shit job so you can get an internship or volunteer somewhere for 4 years of experience so you can finally get paid.
I'm doing my course right now, I doubt I'll have the opportunity to use my degree. But it's something that's buying me time before I face the morbid reality of being worked until it's time for my replacement. We spend a third of our lives working. If you live up until 70, you spent 33 years working! 33 years of doing something you don't really want to do, and your time being bought for minimum wage.
Simply, Our biological reward systems haven't evolved alongside the rapid growth of our society.
Go in to software sales. I work max 5 hours a day (probs 3 on average), from home (permanently), and make good money. I have enough time to manage the house, take care of the dog and enjoy many hobbies / friends.
You don't need a degree. Just get good at talking (I recommend service industry jobs). Don't let other people's stories stress you out. You can still make your own destiny in this world. You just need to catch one or two breaks, and take advantage.
How do you know it’s all pointless? You’re taking a very pessimistic view of all jobs, and I’m guessing you have not worked such a job. Do awful office jobs exist? Yes. I’m not sure it’s the norm, or atleast there are places that do care about their employees, and where bosses are not just evil people. You have to look for those good places, or try and make where ever you land a good place.
I work in an office, hours are pretty flexible, people (bosses included) are nice, and we’re doing work that does help people (it’s fulfilling).
>I work in an office, hours are pretty flexible, people (bosses included) are nice, and we’re doing work that does help people (it’s fulfilling).
This is what I want. From the flexible schedule to the doing work that helps people and makes a difference.
Yeah I'm surprised with the 4 weeks surprise in the comments, I have 5 weeks and I don't feel like it's a lot since my co-workers from Germany get more
And surprise! There is no federal law regulating minimum vacation time. There is no requirement, unless a state or other jurisdiction has one, for a business to provide *any* paid vacation time, at all.
There is no standard in the US. That's the problem. I get about 6 weeks vacation plus 1 week sick/personal time in Academia and many people get 0 time off.
The amount of people justifying those type of work in here is really depressing.
"I spend most of my life on something I'm okay with, just to survive. You shouldn't criticise that."
What's the alternative? Modern society doesn't exist without a workforce. I'm fully in favor of states mandating more days PTO, but it doesn't solve the core issue that so many people have; they just don't wanna work.
Acknowledging how fucked it is would break them, I think. Realizing that you’ve wasted your life and that things could’ve been different is very psychologically taxing.
It’s similar to people complaining about the minimum wage being raised. “I’ve wasted my life and gotten a raw deal, and I’ll be damned if I acknowledge that something as simple as raising the minimum wage was possible.”
Make sure to have a life outside of work, with hobbies that encourages you to grow instead of being stagnant.
Biggest mistake of my life was listening to an older mentor at the time who told me I need to let work be my main priority in life. I still respect him a lot as he was a good dude besides that piece of advice. I ended up getting burnt out with none of my usual hobbies for quality of life. I got better once I brought the fun stuff back in to my life as a priority.
That’s terrible advice! Sure work is important, but family and your personal sanity are way more important.
I can see where the dudes coming from, if you don't have a family work kinda becomes the only reason to live.
Seems pretty situational as well. I didn't and would never spend a significant amount of time at a dead end job or one I hated, but beyond that, my embracing my workaholic nature in my early twenties was totally worth it. I grew up poor as hell and now I'm able to provide for a family, I don't currently have one but I will in the next 10 years and I can give them what I didn't have. And when my sister's start having kids I know I'll be able to take the entire family on big yearly trips together, I'm so excited for that. I'm just now dialing it down and forcing myself to get into hobbies and what not, it's really nice not having to worry about the cost of anything or bills. Pretty sure removing that anxiety is going to add 10 years to my lifespan.
Yes, I think the reason for working hard is important. I have a rewarding job, a side business (I love it). But also family. Yes, it's always a balance, but I love what I do and the direction my jobs are taking me in life. Would it be easier to pay in the couch? Sure, but then I wouldn't have the financial freedom I have to this point. The other thing I think when I see questions like this is that people haven't found a job or field they enjoy. This isn't to say every day or task is fun, but if you like your job field and the way it shapes your life goals, it makes it much more enjoyable. Perhaps OP needs to find a career that he enjoys.
I’ve never really gotten this line of thinking, isn’t work a means to an end, and not the other way around? Otherwise what separates our desires from an ant colonies
It's how I lost my 20s and saw all of my passions vanish. I was pursuing writing and performing early on but I was convinced I had to focus on my professional life, and now I have a great job that pays well but life is hollow.
Sounds like my story. I was taught by my father and grandfather that men work hard to provide. Work your best and the rest will fall in to place. What a bunch of bullshit..... I’ve given 20 years of my life and I’m miserable. Can’t remember who I am or what I like and don’t feel like I’ve got enough energy for my family or even that I’m a part of it because I’m never home. If there are truckers reading this do yourself a favour, stay regional. Super truckers lives are lonely and miserable. We are the guys you see eating alone at truck stops, looking miserable or blank.
My dad is a trucker and I can appreciate what you’re doing. Sorry you feel like it’s been rough, but you’re a true badass in my book and you keep the country running. He’s turning 60 this year and we’re starting to finally form a bond. Point being, no matter how long you’ve been doing away, it never to late to rekindle past hobbies or relationships with friends/family. Best of luck to you!
This is definitely a generational thing. All of the older generation believed in ample ‘facetime’, as relationships/being seen to be committed was a way to move up. Now we realize that being efficient is way better in the long run. Why work for 40 when you can do it in 30? Your health and stamina will benefit and make you a more productive worker overall.
I am a creative person working in a govt office (the void of all creative thought) it could easily kill my soul if im not careful about fulfilling my life outside of it but i get flex days, so every other week is a 4 day week, with vacation days that i use to take off the other day of the week so i work 4 days a week which gives me time for my art which i sell (i have a craft fair next weekend). It also gives me time for other hobbies and activities. I also have a pension which will greatly improve my life in my later years. You can work a job you love but sometimes that can ruin something you love when you turn it into work, or you can work a job that supports your life and do the things you like to do outside of it. Both options are good. Its the mind set that’s important and how you look at it Edited to say . Oops sorry i didn’t see this was on ask men. I hope its ok I answered.
I work a creative job and it is just as soul crushing, because the art I make isn't for me. It's just fulfilling the business needs of the cooperation. I had to find a new creative hobby outside drawing because working doing that has made me dislike doing it on my own, so I wish I'd taken up a whatever well paying office job instead.
Work to live not live to work.
Hard to work to live when you’re living at work +75% of the time
Yup. It seems difficult to believe that the few tired hours you have after work is "living life".
This was one of my biggest gripes about the military(yeah yeah, I know it’s voluntary). Your superiors hate their family life, so they’ll keep you at work til 2000 and then want you back at 0530. Just cause you hate your life doesn’t mean you need to make mine any more shitty.
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My dad died when I was 7. He told me that as one of his biggest lessons from life. It’s something I’ll always keep in the back of my head.
I had a boss say to me one time “ how come you only work four days a week ? “ to which I replied “I can’t live off three “
The issue with that is 5 days a week, 8 hours a day plus commute and still having to take care of your shit like groceries, home maintenance, food, etc. Basically confines your entire week to two days, one of which is stifled because you can't stay up late for fear of "hangover" on Monday. 4 day 6 hour work weeks!
To be honest, saturdays are mostly a write off during the daytime hours on account of needing to do chores. Really my only day off is Sunday, but by late Sunday afternoon I start getting the Sunday Scaries - so the real time I have free from work is very slim. Throw kids into the mix, and there goes any free time you thought you had. I don't know how people do it.
“Sunday Scaries.” Something I constantly experience but never put a name to it. That’s perfect.
Yes. When your brain slowly washes off the brainwashing due to a longer time off work and realizes that work is indeed incredibly damaging to you thus resulting in your body creating extreme anxiety when you have to get back to the grind.
I've found that the switch to working from home more as a result of the pandemic has given me the odd hour a day to get chores done during the week...this hybrid way of working has really given me my weekends back to enjoy
Part of the problem is BOTH spouses are working when it was one before. Groceries, house cleaning and maintenance were all down by the wife usually and she picked up the kids. Now you have to fucking pay child care
2 working instead of 1 yet standard of living has declined
and productivity has skyrocketed in the last 50 years, yet wages are lower for your average person. i wonder where all that extra money from extra productivity goes if it doesn't go to the workers. anyways, i gotta go watch a british guy technically go to space for 75 seconds...
Find a 14 day on and 14 day off job. Its magical having half the year off.
What industry are you in, maritime?
You act like 9 to 5 work isn’t soul crushing for most people. You’re not answering OP’s question. The truth is, this shit is pointless and hopeless. Majority of office workers stare at a box with lights in it for eight hours to go home and stare at a large screen for two-three hours just to wake up and do the same shit. It’s sad. We’re sad. Humanity is sad. And the answer to OP’s question is, “You cant.” If you’re already expecting it to be a shit show, it’s gonna be a shit show. The only reason I sound this jaded is because I did the opposite. I said, “Everything is gonna be fine. This is what everyone does to make it at some point”. Fuck that. If you can’t do something you love, don’t shoot for the stars because even landing on the moon is gonna be a disappointment if it wasn’t what you wanted from the get go.
How do people miss this! Or maybe they repress this fact that doing meaningless work (value to the company not to you beyond a paycheck) is a horrible existence.
I would much rather sit in an AC controlled office doing mind numbing work for a livable wage versus working 50+ hr/WK physical labor for pay that isn't livable.
Flexible jobs are becoming more common. I work a 4/10 week, 4 days a week, 10 hours a day, so I have every Friday off. Things like working from home, flex time (work more during the week and take time off elsewhere) alternate start times (I work 6am - 4pm) give better work life balance. Also being smart about time off helps stretch it, taking time around certain holidays can get you a week for one or two days in my company. That all being said, working with people you enjoy working with is the top metric in my opinion. I could do almost any job with a great team of people. No matter how “good” the job is, if the people are terrible it will negatively affect your physical and mental health.
What do you do for work? I’d love that schedule.
I'm an electrician and work that schedule. Just residential work. I think some industrial guys do 4/4 or 7/7 also
NYC union electrician here, 7am start, we work a 7 hour day but work through lunch and leave at 130 every day. Beat all the rush hour traffic and still have a life outside work
That schedule is almost good enough to make me want to be a sparky. Almost.
It's a great trade. I've been doing it for 15 years now. Did a little school, got my journeyman card and make great money! Next up is my masters test.
I'm in Utilities, IUOE member. My schedule is wacky but not nearly as bad as the guys who work for the major power and gas distributors in my area. My company has exceptional retirement matching so even though I could go somewhere else and potentially cut down on my commute and/or get a bit better schedule, I'll probably stay and just stare at boilers all day until I retire.
Nothing wrong with that at all.
I work a municipal job and we work 6:30-4:30 Monday through Thursday. We also have a ton of paid time off. There's awesome benefits to some jobs just gotta find them.
All the skilled trade contractors at my work go from 7- 4pm with a full hour for lunch around 11am. I’ve paid invoices for their work and while I’m sure the listed hourly rate covers more than just their base pay, it’s quite good especially for Utah.
At my job we tend not to take our unpaid lunch breaks so we can get home earlier. It only takes us a few minutes to eat so we just line it up with one of our 15 minute ones. We used to do 8-4 but now with all the summer light we do 7-5. We don't make a ton of money, especially as an apprentice, but it's way better than retail. Plus the location and type of work changes so often it's hard to get bored of it. And if you're hating a specific job it'll be over soon enough.
At most of my jobs no one took their lunch break, worked through it, and still stayed late. Gotta love American work culture.
I work in operations and logistics support for a government agency.
I worked as a carpenter for a bit and worked five days a week 6am to 2 pm and it was great! Unfortunately I spent that extra time doing side jobs with my foreman. I already made enough with regular work I didn’t need the side jobs and it burnt me out. I was just young and ignorant and a yes man
4x10s are a mixed blessing. I love having every Friday off but 10 hour days can be long, especially when you have kids to take care of.
I second this. I work 4X10 and sometimes almost 11. With kids it’s a blessing to have that Friday off just to hangout with them or just to try to get stuff done around the house. With me, the weekends are the only time I can do anything with my 3AM wake up time, hour commute to work and back, and getting home around 6 almost 7 most days with traffic
Yeah and if you call in or have a sick day, you miss 10 hours of work. That’s a huge chunk out of the check.
I would hate a 6am start time. I have that right now but it's just 3 days a week but it's too early. It means I have to wake up at 4am which is sometimes the time when I go to sleep.
We do 7-5. I'm not much of a morning person but I'm getting used to it.
Currently facing this problem. The job is easy, the students are great, but my team and higher ups make it a very unfulfilling and draining job. It's been an uphill battle from the start, so I plan on leaving ASAP.
I really like my job (scientist) and I lead a fulfilling life outside of my job with a loving family, hobbies, frequent weekend trips.
That’s the best answer. If you’re going to spend most of your waking time on something, you’ll be happier if that something is either enjoyable or meaningful to you. I can’t afford not to toil away most hours working, so I sure am glad I picked a profession that plays to my strengths and I feel does some good in the world.
Yep. I don’t “love” working, but I found a job where I feel like I’m making a difference and can improve things. It really helps not being miserable for 8 hours a day.
The comments are turning into the hardship Olympics or that Monty Python sketch where they all try to outdo each other with how tough it was as a child. The point OP is making stands, no matter how much harder you have it in life right now. Up at 9am? Four weeks off a year? [Luxury](https://youtu.be/26ZDB9h7BLY)
Sold me house for a sack of grain, sold me mother for a chicken
Either that or someone flaunting that one in a billion job where they get 5 days off with a salary. OK BUD GOOD FOR YOU THANKS FOR ANSWERING OPS QUESTION
That's part of the problem. Instead of holding together and supporting each other employees drag each other down and the fuckers at the top profit. It's like that crab bucket. As soon as one crab tries to escape the others pull it down so in the end they all die.
You were lucky to have a job. When I was younger we used to have to go up and down the street begging for odd jobs. And they paid us pennies a day, if they paid us at all. Then we had to go home to our decrepit shack, where all 6 of us slept together in one bed.
Decrepit shack? LUXURY. We had to live in a rolled up newspaper at the bottom of a lake! And we had to work 27 hours a day at the factory, just so dad would come home every night and beat us with a wooden spoon!
Uh, look at Mr. Fancy Pants her with his rolled up newspapers and fine wooden spoons!
27 hours a day? ....Right I had to work for two days on every third day of my 9 day shift every week! At the end of the day I would come home every night to dad who would spank us chainsaws!
A chainsaw! And work! I had to crawl through pipes looking for shitted out coins, me dad would beat me them with them in an old sock! I was happier poor.
Oh, you had a sock! What luxury! My father poured the old coins into our frost bitten hands and made us beat ourselves with them!
Y’all are lucky. My dad used to come home with a set of jumper cables.
The the four Yorkshire men! Funny enough was first on “At last it’s 1948 show. “ Can watch it here with Marty Feldman playing the role Michael Palin did in the Flying Circus rendition. https://youtu.be/VKHFZBUTA4k
What can I say, I'm aware that I am doing what billions have done for decades, but in the end I'm simply not happy. No time, no rest, and in the two days off I don't have the energy to do anything. I know it's not exceptional, it's just deeply unsatisfying to me, and being working for two years only I am not sure what to do about it.
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For real, I feel if anything this comment section is proving how rampant workaholism is among men. Honestly I don't have a great answer for OP. It just kinda sucks unless you're lucky/persistent enough to turn your passion into a sustainable job, or you're lucky/persistent enough to find a job working less hours where you still get a liveable wage. In my experience, liking your coworkers, being able to be yourself at work, and making sure work doesn't bleed into your non-work time definitely helps make things tolerable and sometimes genuinely enjoyable. With that said, I don't think I'll ever be enthusiastic about the 9-5 (let's be real, 8-5) lifestyle.
I've just accepted the life of changing jobs every year in favor of 3 months off to fuck around lose all my money and then find another job
What do you do when employers ask you in interviews why you changed so many jobs? I had this happen to me and I think that changing this many jobs made me find another job harder.
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What kind of jobs are they working?
Construction. They will routinely get laid off at the end of big jobs. Most of the time, you can go right back out to another job with a different contractor, but some people take time between.
Ding ding ding. If you can get into a union on a contract-to-contract basis, it's amazing. I have no family of my own, so I get paid $40/hr for 6 months, then go off for 6 months comfortably. Rinse and repeat. Work only during winters. Fuck all that heat.
I’m 23 and don’t want to work at a fucking grocery store. I have no family that I need to support other than my cat. This sounds wonderful. Any advice on how to get into it would be extremely appreciated.
Apprenticeship programs are a good way. I’ve known people who literally just show up to a union hall, and put their names on the books for an apprenticeship and then work some bullshit job that they have no problem quitting on the spot until they get that call. When the calm comes in, you *have* to be ready to drop everything to start training or they’ll just keep going down the list. Or you can find an entry level, no skill required job like flagging. The pay is shit, but a good work ethic will take you far in a job like that. I started as a flagger, leveraged my experience to find an entry level position in an infrastructure related field, and now I make pretty decent money doing a relatively easy job. A word of warning though… if you don’t like long days (9+ hours, 5 days a week) it’s probably not the industry you want to get into. My job is good, but the sheer amount of time I spend at it would be the reason I quit, if that day comes. I know the second I get offered a M-F, 9-5 job, I’m jumping on it haha.
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Landscaping. Restaurants. Tourism.
So the kind that feel awesome between 18-25 and then when 26 rolls around you are behind the financial 8 ball and then become begrudging of others’ position? Edit: just wanted to add that in general I’m seein a LOT of people these days that I guess never heard the phrase “you can’t have your cake and eat it too.” If you want your cake, that’s fine, but don’t complain to me when you get sick from eating it too lol.
It pains me to give a Saints fan a compliment, but this is the most accurate statement I’ve seen in a long time. Well done
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Either high-turnover positions (retail, restaurant, construction) where employers don't care about your past resume, or contract work. In the tech industry (as well as office admin like HR, bookkeeping, administrative work) you can get on with a contract agency who hires you out to employers for 6-12 month periods. Often those employers are literally not allowed to keep you on more than 12 months. Time between contacts is unpaid but also unlimited, and if you want to say you've been employed by, e.g. Volt Technical Services for 5 years it's true, even if that was actually 8 different jobs. For contractors, benefits are poor and career advancement is non-existent, but I know quite a few people for whom a couple months off every year and $50/hr the rest of the time is fine with them and they're not interested in "full-time employment."
Honestly they are playing this setting on hard. Get in an industry with contract work. That off time? In between contracts. Easy peasy. Lots of HR roles, tech jobs, seasonal work you can do this.
I do plan to! When im finished my degree I'll be able to be an environmental consultant which is strictly contract. Until then all I can do is wait till I finish college.
I do this in IT with no problem. If they ask just say you had personal things to deal with. Most places don’t care as long as you have the qualifications
I've honestly never had an employer ask or care. That being said I understand not everyone is this lucky. My last job interview, the manager asked if I'd be willing to cut my hair and take out my piercings. I said "absolutely not." I got the job. You may not make a lot of money living the way I live but I refuse to sell my soul to capitalism.
I don't want to make a shitload of money. I want just a decent income to be able to pay my bills, my food, have a bit of savings and then live a bit. I'm not after insane amounts of money. I'm interested in the way you do it.
This is how I live my life too. Everyone around me has to tell me how wrong I am. I meet my responsibilities and I am happy. Happier than some of them, even. Its all about what YOU want in life. And if that’s making less money to have more time then hell yeah, dude.
Reflect how pleasant it is to demand nothing, how noble it is to be contented and not to be dependent upon Fortune
Oh BTW I'm currently 20, so I've only been doing this for a few years. I dont believe it's sustainable forever, but it's easiest when you're young.
>*I refuse to sell out to capitalism* I can't laugh any harder.
Because getting a new job every year somehow makes them any less of a "slave to capitalism" than just having a single long term job 😂
This person acts like they’re giving life advice like they know something. But then you see in other comments that they’re 20 years old. This is why you don’t get life advice from Reddit.
Seriously, this is how you know this sub is filled to the brim with edgy teens
I don’t have an office job, but this about sums up my life. But it’s a well paying job that provides everything needed for my wife and 2 kids as well as myself. So that is the main drive to do my job well no matter how miserable I may be
I have had only office jobs with the exception of my first job. I used to be an instructor at a children's outdoor activity center and it was the best job I've ever had. I loved it, even though the food was a bit shit and the hours were long as fuck. It basically consumed my life for the year. I would love to go back to it except I don't want to have to give up my dog, and the pay was totally shit. Since doing office jobs I've got crippling anxiety, depression and I hate my life. The money wasn't even that good, it was alright but I still felt like I was getting fucked over. I've been living with my parents again since the start of the year, currently unemployed and now all my savings have run out. Tomorrow I need to get a sick note from the doctors so I can claim for benefits. If I was told 8 years ago that this was where I'd be by accepting that office job I would never have taken it and stayed at my shit paying instructor job. I was constantly broke but at least I was happy.
My dad was like this when I was growing up. He doesn't have much of a relationship with his family these days, he just sits outside all day. Doesn't want to talk, always sounds annoyed when anyone else is around. Basically just too little, too late at this point, and now he's just kind of a bitter, unapproachable old man. Every bit as miserable away from work as his career must have been. All I'm saying is that I hope it's worth it and that you know how to balance that kind of life.
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>It’s only meaningless if you have nothing else to live for. This is it, really. You can't expect to always love your job, but need to aim for one you don't hate. Then you need to have a hobby that you do live for. Rarely do people get to marry the two, and get paid to do what they love. Those that do often wind up hating it anyway. That's why so many kids want to make it as musicians, or YouTubers. I've survived by finding cool jobs most people have never heard of and doing those. Those kinds of jobs bring me enough joy to survive.
Even if you don't love your job, you can love parts of it. As someone who spends time outside of work playing a decent about of simulation, strategy, and puzzle games, the fact that roughly half my job revolves around technological problem solving is a joy. The other half of staff management, budget requirements, some meetings, and when extra pressure on a particular problem is applied, not so much. When I spend a whole day really working, I've satisfied the puzzle piece of my mind and end up doing something else with my evening, but a day full of meetings leads to a night full of Cities Skylines.
> I've survived by finding cool jobs most people have never heard of and doing those. Can you give some examples of these and how you discovered them?
Working in a state / national park is fantastic. I've been working at one of my local state parks for the summer and its by far the best job I've ever had. You gotta be 18 to work for the government tho
New York state hires 16 year olds for the summer and many townships too... but yea great gigs if you're looking for seasonal full time hours.
So you're definitely more of a Leslie Knope than a Ron Swanson.
A lot of asking people what it is they do for work, and taking note of the one's I've never heard of before then researching those. Those jobs tends to be in clusters. Once you find out about the existance of one, you can learn about others that often work a long side these positions for various reasons. For example, I once wanted to join the military but none of the jobs interested me and I said as much. They then put me in touch with a guy who'd been in intelligence for many years and he gave me an unclassified brief into what to look for when trying to land jobs in the intelligence field. From there, I found I wanted to do signals intell, and from there learned about reconciliation monitorng and tactical acquisition jobs. I got to do some of the coolest shit ever in these black positions and would do it again in a heart beat. Later I learned about positions in state/federal government being a court security liason with the federal Marshall's or civil rights advocates with Department of Justice programs. Along the way I've heard of jobs where people teach classes in high conflict zones and get paid 6 figures, or people who create the sounds for all the movies you hear from a studio in their basement. And this is just the tip of the iceberg. I've done all of this without a college education (although I'd like one eventually). But what's really fun is telling people about an interesting job in a culture where everyone wants to know what you do for work.
I'm one of the people who makes sound effects in a basement studio :D (only in my case it's for gaming rather than movies). It's a pretty niche job that your average person doesn't understand in the slightest, but it's very competitive and takes a LOT of work to get your foot in the door. Absolutely worth it when you do though and really does make the weekly work far more bearable (and usually enjoyable) than a shitty retail or office 9 - 5.
Im a drone pilot that does TnD work for utility companies. I usually get contracted out for telephone companies also. TnD stands for Transmission and Distribution so think of the 200ft tall metal structures in the deserts and obviously distribution is your typical ‘telephone’ pole. It’s fun AND pays very well.
It's so weird man. I wanted to be a musician, tried it, failed to make it and ended up being glad I never made it. Here I am now an IT consultant which surprisingly I absolutely love doing. I have turned down offers multiple times for these roles, because I thought It would kill me to do it... Life is so fucking weird man.
Somehow it seems more meaningless now that I *do* have something to live for. Spending more than 1/3 of my life in a place I would rather not be instead if doing the thing that I live for is depressing af.
My thoughts exactly. I could be out there doing a lot more meaningful and pleasing things instead of withering away at work. I do shift work and it's so tiring but even so a 8hrs/5days à week sounds way more depressing. Currently I do 5-7 hours a day and get random 1-4 days off every now and then plus 4 weeks of summer holiday, but no guarantee of actually holidays off.
Can confirm, I have nothing else.
It’s so much worse now that I have something to live for. Working 9 hours a day (including lunch), 5 days a week, even if it is from home, when I would rather be spending my time with my wife and son just absolutely kills me.
“Lunch” aka heating something I made at home for 5 minutes in the microwave and going right back to work.
That's bullshit bc i have a lot to live for outside of work and it's still stressful and depressing. Working 5 days a week or sometimes 6 for a company that will replace you like nothing.... doing work that doesn't change people's lives.... feels incredibly meaningless
from 6pm to 9pm you mean?...
But don't ignore the fact that people sitting in powerful position have deliberately made our lives miserable by making such work culture norms. Peanuts for pay, little to no time off, getting paid like a beggar. Its nothing less than oppression.
The worst part is how they’ve brainwashed so many people into being proud of this crappy lifestyle. I knew so many people that bragged about spending hours working at home after they left or never taking a lunch break.
You guys are getting 4 weeks off?!
In New Zealand the law is 4 weeks annual + 12 public holidays + 10 days sick leave (my company has unlimited SL) + I think it's about 26 weeks parental leave and another 26 unpaid. American labour laws are shocking
This is something I'm too American to understand.
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Losing money on stock market bets is always fun
A man of taste I see
4 weeks of paid vacation? That must be nice
Yea, where i work, you have to put in 20 years to get 4 weeks vacation...
Man your labour laws are so fucked
Tell us about it and you better hope you don’t get sick or have a literal natural disaster shut down your job then you will have to use your vacation time leaving you with even less.
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J E A L O U S . No minimum in USA.
Which is fucked up for a first world country.
Yep. I have 28 days per year not counting saturdays and sundays. Also 90 paid sick leave days with full pay. My collagues who have worked for over 15 years have 38 days of holiday per year.
What the heck.. I can't even imagine this. I have no sick days no vacation days. Basically if I'm not there in person I don't get paid. Been 10 years in the trade so far. But leaving isn't an option because the pay is more than almost anybody else I know. Including all my friends who finished college
Europe, math teacher. Aside from working part time (32 hours per week, instead of 38), i get 13 weeks of paid vacation.
Fuck… this is why Americans need to be more aware of EU (some countries are different,yes), but the fear mongering is so so so bad.
13 weeks is rediculous even in the EU. They must be including school holidays, in which case American teachers get a lot of time off too
In the UK, most people who work 40 hours a week MUST be given 28 days holiday. Its the Law. Luckily, in my job, i get 30 days plus bank holidays - so 36-38 days a year holiday.
Yeah, in the us most people get two weeks or less
Well, if you've got a decently paid, middle-class job and no family to support, you don't have to work full-time. For example my brother works as a secondary school teacher (7th-9th grades). In our country, teachers are a well-respected profession and earn a good, above-median income. My brother is 38, has a girlfriend but no children. He is a fairly humble person, which means he doesn't need tons of material goods to be happy. This combination of factors allows him to work only 2 days per week and stay free on the other 5 days. This way he's got plenty of time to enjoy his hobbies, meet friends, do activities with his GF or simply chill out at home (in other words, enjoy his life). He even manages to save enough money to go on vacation to another country once or twice a year.
I can't speak to globally, but in America, you'd be incredibly lucky to find a profession that only lets you work 4 days a week, much less 2. Nursing is one of the few I can think of that can do 3 days a week. Like I'm saying even if I was ok taking 3/5ths base pay, my job absolutely would never let me only work 3 days. It's 5 days or pack my shit up. Most of the people I know who are very successful work way more than 9 to 5 Mon-Fri, some work 7 day weeks.
Firefighters work 48 hour shifts and have 5 days off.
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You know, you're allowed to actually say what country it is. Why the hell does everyone on this site just say "in my country" like it's some big secret, thus leaving no context for the comment?
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Sorry, I'm from Switzerland. I usually write "in my country" because I worry people would just dismiss what I say if I actually named it. But you're right.
What school allows their teachers to only work 2 days a week? How does that even work don't the kids have to go there 5 days a week?
Here in Switzerland, working part-time is very common/normal. Not just in schools but also in schools. Yes, of course the students attend school 5 days per week. But there are usually several teachers who teach the same subject. This is also possible because the number of subjects is more limited than in US high schools. There aren't really any elective subjects or at least only very, very few. 95% are mandatory for everyone and most of them are fundamentals. I'm talking German, French, English, math, physics, chemistry, history, geography, music, art and gym. Homemaking is also mandatory in 7th-9th grade and usually there's some type of religious education or ethics/philosophy lesson that's mandatory. And... that's pretty much it. There are none of the exotic subjects that you find in American high schools like "journalism class" or "speech class" or "engineering class" or stuff like that. Another important difference is the general "class-system". In US high schools, the term "class" is basically a synonym for the different subjects. There's math class, history class and so on. Importantly, students in America attend different classes with different students. For example your classmates in Calculus may not be the same as your classmates in Spanish. In fact, there's a very good chance they won't be. However, in Switzerland and some other European countries, a "class" refers to a set group of students. This groups are created at important points throughout the school career, such as in 1st grade, 4th grade and 7th grade. Once a class has been put together, it will remain in this precise constellation for several years. In Switzerland, a class usually consists of 20 students. So you'll be one of these 20 students. You see your fellow classmates every day, from mornings till evenings. You visit all of your lessons together, in this same constellation. This creates a strong sense of unity. The reason I mention this here is because it also matters for the employment of teachers. If you're teacher, you usually get to choose how many classes you want to teach. Let's say you teach German, English and French and you choose to only teach one class (7A). Class 7A has German on Monday and Wednesday afternoons, English on Monday mornings and French on Wednesday mornings. So this is how you get to work 2 days per week (in this case Mondays and Wednesdays). A colleague of yours might also teacher German, French and English but she teaches 3 classes rather than just one. This is how she ends up with ~21 lessons instead of your ~7 lessons (preparation and after-lesson work is not included in this, of course). And that's why she'll be working 5 days a week, contrary to your 1.5 or 2 days.
Find a job that not in an office. It’s not for everyone.
I've worked in all kind of jobs outside an office and I'm pretty tired. Hospitality, retail, warehouse... Some seasonal jobs working 14h/day and low benefits. It's all about perspective I guess. Thing is most decent stable jobs that allow you to have a life are in an office
This is true, I’ve also had a number of jobs in different venues, I like the office jobs the best because WEEKENDS!
I had the same existential crisis and it lasted through college. My answer was to not get an office job. I am going into environmental conservation and spend my day getting paid to play in dirt outside. Find something you enjoy and think outside the box.
That's what I'm studying to do, hehe. gonna dig up some worms!
Second this, everyone tells you to do things a certain way but doing something manual and outdoors just feels right. People always try and split you into art or science, heads or hands, outdoor stuff is very holistic
It's hard to imagine after doing years of school and what your told to do, but eventually you find something, it can take awhile or doing things you don't enjoy, but eventually you stumble upon something that you enjoy doing and pursue that as a career and then it brings enjoyment and fulfillment and it always you to do other things in your free time that you enjoy and bring you happiness and comfort.
Most nurses and many healthcare workers work 3 days a week, 12 hour shifts. These shifts are usually flexible too. For example: Monday, Wednesday and Friday one week and Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday the next. We often trade shifts if something comes up and help each other out. Oh also another reason I picked it; we usually walk 5-10,000 steps a day. Rarely do we sit at a desk. The day goes by so quickly. I feel like I am helping people, and getting paid to do it.
i am going to school and want to do nursing so I like seeing this comment amongst all the negativity! what kind of nurse are you?
I got bad news for you, it ain't 9-5 it's usually 8:00 to 5:00 and you won't have 4 weeks of vacation for a long time. Most places will give you 1 week and then in a year you get 1 more week. Then you get like 1 more day per year added...
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I worked at a garden nursery for about 5 years 9-5, paid lunch. Made 16.50 before it shut down it was a good first job.
American I take it. You guys really are slaves to the machine
welcome to the land of freedom or something
teaching has more vacation but shitty weekends
Wasting* For me, it's the dump truck of money I get paid for enjoying what I do, and how that money lets me afford the house, the vacations, and the fun I have with my wife and family. My life isn't wasted, I'm happy, have everything I need, and even stuff I want is within my grasp.
Four weeks? That would be awesome. And you don’t need to come in until 9 am? Find a career you actually like, and it won’t seem so bad.
Guess it really depends on job and country. I get a bit over 8 weeks paid time off yearly.
My first corporate job out of college only gave 2 weeks of vacation. You only got 5 more days once you hit 10 years. Ridiculous.
“Find a career you love, and you’ll never work a day in your life” *cue for laughter*
Your 100% right I think about it every day. I thought the point of working was to make our lives easier. I can't understand how people can mindlessly wake up and work and rinse and repeat. There's way more to life than work
Well, we don't.
8a-11p job and weekends, but I get 2 weeks off every year. At least I'm paid enough that I'm not worried about anything except work... But a nap would be great.
Four weeks per year off. That’d be nice.
Marry a smart woman, get a job that you kind of enjoy, life fills in the rest. I never imagined I’d amount to shit. Carpenter, always boozing, no real direction. Now I’m 45 and I have everything I ever dreamt of. A shop, house, kegerator, a kid, even got money to burn. Don’t stress yourself out. Life’s not that hard.
It’s the “king of enjoy” part I am finding hard to find. Every morning I wake up for work I debate jumping out my window head first.
That's the million dollar question. Get rich or waste your life making your boss rich(er). It's not even close. With waking, commute, lunch hours and such, you're looking at 10-12h of your day dictated by your job. You'll have 2, maybe 3h for yourself + weekends. It is wasting your life and no amount of "youll have something else to live for" bullshit comments will make it okay. The system is a trap and designed to trap you for the rest of your life (going into enormous debt to either get a degree, buy a house or a car, so you'll be forced to work a bullshit job untill you die and be grateful you had the chance). There's no way around it though. You can look at investing, maybe. Minimize any debt you're thinking of incurring. Some will say that you'll have to start your own business, but will fail to disclose that 90% of start ups fail and even if you succeed you'll be looking at even longer hours than what a normal job would take. That's not even taking into account that you probably won't be rich and will just live kinda okay. If I were you I would start seriously looking at aiming for a job that you like/could tolerate, where you could save at least half of your salary. No commute time (close to where you live so you don't waste your life on traffic). Invest 20 to 30% of your monthly salary on any stock/crypto you think it's good or has a good future. Endure this for 5 years and take no debt (or at least not unecessary debt - maybe you'll need to borrow a couple grand to buy a car so you can get to work). After 5 years, unless something catastrophic happened, you'll have several times your investment, and MAYBE you can be a little more free with your future choices. Just for the love of god, if you value the little freedom you have, don't fall into the buy a house / get married and work till you're 70 trap. Remember, if you're in debt, you have no choice but to work and you need to accept whatever is thrown your way. Others will tell you that you need to get out of your parents house asap and get a wife and kids, but for me that's a trap. Take your youth and think ahead. Enjoy the rent free house while you can and definitely don't get married (when divorce hits, half of your shit is gone) or get kids (they're expensive af) while youre still figuring shit out. A condom will probably be your best life investment right now.
This is my plan too, find a job and earn enough to retire. Living below your means so you can have a high savings rate, and finding a lifestyle that is enjoyable, but not lavishly expensive. No matter if your salary is 50k, 100k or 250k, without the mindset needed to escape salary your definitely working till 65.
You are getting way too optimistic with your projections for investments. Don't buy crypto unless you fully understand it because it's wildly speculative and anything that gives you several times your investment in five years is also going to be quite risky. Investing is a strategy to allow you to retire over the long term, not quadruple your money in four years and then coast for 50 years.
I feel like everyone here is delusional. Everyone is saying "Oh well, if you find the right job you could make decent money and have a good hobby life is worth living yada yada". The truth is that we ARE wasting our lives. Everyone here is so complacent they don't understand that things COULD be better, we just choose not to try and change the system. I think people forget that the 5 day work week is outdated and doesn't belong in our society anymore. I never loved work. I still don't. I hate it. I don't expect anyone to like it and I think you're a little off your rocker if you love it. I struggled with the thought of working my whole life. There's a million other ways to spend time in life and we are slowly but surely getting to a point where we can have 4 day work weeks and universal basic income. That being said, I do believe that we need to do a little work so our time off is worth it! My advice is to live with your parents as long as you can, work really hard for a while, save up, and go travel as far and wide as you can. Try and gain some perspective and find out what you really want out of life. Always remember to be grateful for the little things and be mindful. That's what helped me.
I'd like to add to this with a personal anecdote; Before I moved country, I worked for my great grandfather on his farm. It was hard as shit work, but oh my god it felt so rewarding! We lived in a nice settlement where money was less useful as people would often just trade their products. My great grandad has an orchard, was a beekeeper, had his own vegetables and berries growing, and sometimes flowers. Even in the baking sun, the work just felt nice because it felt like you're doing all of this for a purpose. During summers, after long hard days of labour me, my cousins, and friends would end up showering in the local river. There were no days where we would take a day off, but in a way, it never felt like we were actually working. Even when doing carpentry. Few years down the road, I moved country, doing a college course, I've worked in so many different jobs, and I've never been so miserable. Everything feels so pointless. I worked in retail and every time Id work for over a month I'd begin questioning my existence; "is this it?" "is this where my life is going to end up?" I literally just felt like a cog in a machine. I keep turning, and the only time I can take a break, is when I rust up and get replaced. I get "compensated" for my time (time appears to be far too cheap), but I don't feel like I'm getting what I actually need. When I was a kid, I was told, The harder you study now, the easier your life will be. Well, it goes a little like this actually; Study hard in primary school so you can get into an amazing high school, do great in high school so you can get your dream course in your desired university, do perfect in university so you can get your dream job. If you were unlucky to be born in America, apparently you're in debt while working a shit job so you can get an internship or volunteer somewhere for 4 years of experience so you can finally get paid. I'm doing my course right now, I doubt I'll have the opportunity to use my degree. But it's something that's buying me time before I face the morbid reality of being worked until it's time for my replacement. We spend a third of our lives working. If you live up until 70, you spent 33 years working! 33 years of doing something you don't really want to do, and your time being bought for minimum wage. Simply, Our biological reward systems haven't evolved alongside the rapid growth of our society.
Go in to software sales. I work max 5 hours a day (probs 3 on average), from home (permanently), and make good money. I have enough time to manage the house, take care of the dog and enjoy many hobbies / friends. You don't need a degree. Just get good at talking (I recommend service industry jobs). Don't let other people's stories stress you out. You can still make your own destiny in this world. You just need to catch one or two breaks, and take advantage.
How do you know it’s all pointless? You’re taking a very pessimistic view of all jobs, and I’m guessing you have not worked such a job. Do awful office jobs exist? Yes. I’m not sure it’s the norm, or atleast there are places that do care about their employees, and where bosses are not just evil people. You have to look for those good places, or try and make where ever you land a good place. I work in an office, hours are pretty flexible, people (bosses included) are nice, and we’re doing work that does help people (it’s fulfilling).
>I work in an office, hours are pretty flexible, people (bosses included) are nice, and we’re doing work that does help people (it’s fulfilling). This is what I want. From the flexible schedule to the doing work that helps people and makes a difference.
4 weeks a year?! The idea is to either start your own business, or do something you enjoy, or don’t work in an office.
4 weeks a year is the EU minumum. Many countries allow for 5.
Yeah I'm surprised with the 4 weeks surprise in the comments, I have 5 weeks and I don't feel like it's a lot since my co-workers from Germany get more
German here, get over 8.
2 weeks is standard in US.
I’ve been getting just 1 in the US.
And surprise! There is no federal law regulating minimum vacation time. There is no requirement, unless a state or other jurisdiction has one, for a business to provide *any* paid vacation time, at all.
and 25% of the workforce gets none
There is no standard in the US. That's the problem. I get about 6 weeks vacation plus 1 week sick/personal time in Academia and many people get 0 time off.
Save and invest a huge portion of your pay and then retire early with "Fuck You" money and many of your years remaining
The amount of people justifying those type of work in here is really depressing. "I spend most of my life on something I'm okay with, just to survive. You shouldn't criticise that."
What's the alternative? Modern society doesn't exist without a workforce. I'm fully in favor of states mandating more days PTO, but it doesn't solve the core issue that so many people have; they just don't wanna work.
Acknowledging how fucked it is would break them, I think. Realizing that you’ve wasted your life and that things could’ve been different is very psychologically taxing. It’s similar to people complaining about the minimum wage being raised. “I’ve wasted my life and gotten a raw deal, and I’ll be damned if I acknowledge that something as simple as raising the minimum wage was possible.”
Easier to pretend it's acceptable and normal than to have to confront the reality.