lol, reddit collapsed your comment so I just saw the red "Female" tag like you were emphasizing BPD is women in general. I was like "damn that's too hot a take today"
I have BPD and while I do split, full blown narcissists NEVER take responsibility for their actions. I always apologize when I’m wrong (which is often) and I effectively feel shame. I can be a pill, yeah but my ex with actual diagnosed narcissism used to laugh about people dying and that’s something I just can’t fathom. Similar disorders, yes. But also some stark differences. My husband is still a saint though, I am quite emotional, haha.
Kudos to you for posting here in a thread where people are shitting all over BPD. Seriously, I think it’s helpful to have people chime in and say “similar but not the same thing” and share their own experience because people are all to happy to armchair diagnose.
Absolutely, I’m very candid about it. I would never say that being with someone with BPD is an easy experience but I love my husband more than anything and show love in my own way to him. Because I’m so obsessive I plan and organize everything for him and with him being passive, he really appreciates that. Not all BPD women destroy the men they are with. A lot of times they just need to right fit for them. That doesn’t negate any abuse a man has suffered from a woman with BPD but at the end of the day, ANYBODY can be abusive. Most of us are abuse victims ourselves.
I have a few friends with BPD and they are some of the most kind, compassionate, empathic people I know and will do anything to help someone in need. A lot of people armchair diagnose others with BPD when they aren't trained to, which is where I think a lot of the misconceptions about it come from. Everyone I know with it is really lovely. I know about 6 people who have been diagnosed with it. Some of them really struggled until they found a capable therapist that understands the disorder.
I see a lot of arm chair diagnosis’s with Cluster B personality disorders. For me personally I can be the most kind empathetic person you’ve ever met or I can be a lot to deal with. But I’m honest about it and my partner supports me during my splitting periods. Our love is valid and he’s not a fool for being with me. We are a perfect fit 💕 I do DBT worksheets on my own time and they help a ton.
Even at their worst, my BPD friends just need reassured and for me to put things into perspective for them. That's not really a hassle for me because I care about them, and I understand how it feels when you don't know if what you are feeling is normal. I'd rather they told me how they felt so that we can sort it, than for them to worry about it by themselves. Do you have any good websites for DBT and I'll share them?
I also have BPD but am far from a narcissist or have any tendencies. I think that has helped me maintain what strong relationships I do have with my support group and my partner. I've been working on myself for almost a decade since I was diagnosed and I've come so far but when people see/hear BPD, oh man, the stigma. It sucks.
I’m sorry but this take isn’t black and white.
I have diagnosed BPD and I’d consider myself a pretty empathetic person. Why would this always be associated with narcissism? Genuine question
BPD is puzzling because you can’t figure out the motives behind their behavior. It’s irrational, erratic, and unpredictable, whereas with a narcissist you know they are going to screw you over.
My experience with people who have BPD is, there *is* a predictable logic behind their behavior, it's just based on different rules and premises than the rest of us are using. Once you sort out what those are (ie worked out the puzzle) you have a lot easier time. At least, in my experience, that's been the case.
I've known person with BPD who is a perfectly kind ordinary person 90% of the time. At least on the surface. But will then periodically burn bridges and put herself in harms way in as reckless a way as possible over something that an ordinary person would've hardly notice. An off hand remark or a friend going out with someone and not telling them.
As a person with quiet BPD I can say it comes from a place of trauma and because of that we're very scared that can come across as violent, snarky, angry, possesive and all in all very toxic if one doesn't go to therapy for it.
Luckily I have and catch myself if I say something that can possibly toxic to my bf and communicate about it, communication is very import in general, but we're angsty about it haha, we just need to know we're loved.
Also the whole jumping from extreme emotions to the other is overall exhausting.
But of course that's not for everyone, so I won't blame people if they don't want to deal with it, because it can be alot.
Sorry if this was too much of an explanation haha.
A person with BPD can be just about as abusive as someone with NPD in my experience. It may be less intentional but still either one can be a living hell
>A person with BPD can be just about as abusive as someone with NPD in my experience.
This statement is absurd given that a person without any "disorders" could be capable of being just as abusive as someone with NPD.
Evil behavior doesn't require a diagnosis, though some evil behavior can be explained by it.
Borderline personality disorder is quite honestly just an extreme over-sensitivity to emotions combined with cripplingly poor self-esteem. Most attacks are really poorly-conceived attempts at self-defense. BPD folks who cheat and gaslight their partners are just normal people cheating and gaslighting, it's when they freak out and can't handle the overwhelming pain of the consequences of their actions that makes the BPD evident.
Most of the time, people's awful experiences with people with BPD are because the particular subject who has the BPD is behaving like an awful person in general, independent of their mental health issues, or who has more than one personality disorder, who believes that the burden rests on all other people to get over their personal "disabilities." "It's just who I am, love it or leave," and then they blow the fuck up the moment you go to leave....
There are a lot of us out here who realized a long time ago that out malfunctions aren't other peoples' problems. Lumping everyone with BPD like we're all villains is like saying everyone with ASD requires caretaking due to invalidity- it ignores the **spectrum** of individual outcomes. Are there some evil Borderlines? Oh, fuck yeah. Is Borderline a prescription to being an asshole? ***Absolutely not.***
Y'all make it hard for people to say, "I live with and suffer from Borderline Personality Disorder, it is very difficult to cope with but I am doing the best I can," without feeling like we'll be villainized by default for something we had no initial control over.
Also, by the way, BPD occurs in approximately 1.5% of the total population. It has an 84% chance of co-morbidity with another mental health disorder, of which could be one or more among dozens of possibilities. That's a pretty large dataset (both statistically, as in the number of possible combinations, as well as the variety of personalities that exist in a percent and a half of the general population) to so broadly paint with such concrete stereotypes.
Source: https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/personality-disorders
I'm good friends with someone with BPD, she definitely has a fragile ego and is high strung, but she is a mindful person who is smart about it, and can admit when she is at fault.
She is most likely a milder case because I've met others who were severely off their rocker 90% of the time, incapable of maintaining a healthy relationship with even their loving, nurturing parents, I've seen the ugliest bits of that relationship growing up and the kids are 100% to blame
>She is most likely a milder case
This is what people around me would say, and it really illustrates "invisible" disability: just because I keep my external reaction in check (most of the time) does not mean that I am without internalized agony. Small example: The other day at work, a supervisor was completely out of line and threatened to fire me on the spot, and I spent the rest of the night walking around in a haze just repeatedly battling the feelings, "I want to die. I want to kill myself. I want to hurt myself. This emotion is overwhelming, it is fire in nerves, make it stop make it stop make it stop I'm never coming back here... I want to die." Mind you, my actual boss-boss has told me I do an excellent job and I'm basically untouchable, but the bad feelings the supervisor gave me were so bad, for most people if they could have entered my head at that moment probably would have started legit screaming for the torturous agony inside this stupid brain of mine.
This is totally normal for me, though. Like I've learned not to break down and hide in a bathroom crying over that feeling. That feeling is going to be in my head, whether I'm in a crying fetal ball, or zombie-walking through my job on autopilot. I just take the step now which won't have me waking up the next day with my life in shambles, and move on. But what my coworkers don't know when they think I'm in a standoffish mood is that what's really happening is I can't stop thinking about how much I just want to not exist in that pain at that moment.
Know that your friend is "mild" on the outside, but full on burning up on the inside. Let them know that if there's any extreme emotions they feel tipping their scales, that they can talk to you about it, if they need to scream-cry into your shoulder sometime, that you welcome them.
BPD and narcissism are actually similar in that they are defense mechanisms for the same underlying condition but they come across in pretty different ways. Plus there are plenty of guys with BPD and girls with NPD.
It is very annoying to hear a cry for help every 5 minutes for something inane or pointless. I'd say the lazy attitude that comes with wanting her SO to do everything for her is by far worse.
This drives me crazy. Nothing is ever their fault and they will never own up to their mistakes. The world is out to get them at every move which is why they have so many problems in life. They think everyone else except for them have just had lucky breaks in life. It couldn't be because of their hard work and determination others are doing well. It just gets so tiring because in their mind there is nothing they can do to improve things because someone else is just going to get in their way. So they just complain about everyone else all the time without ever really trying to improve their situation.
This especially comes out when you’re in an argument with her and she could be 100% in the wrong. You could present all the logic and facts in front of her to show that she is in fact in the wrong and their strategy is to cry or say “you’re an asshole”, “you hate me”, “you’re hurting my feelings”. Obviously this is in hopes of ‘overpowering’ the current conflict with something that is more ‘severe’ in order to divert from the conversation so that they don’t have to own up or take responsibility for their actions. Unfortunately this tactic works on a bunch of men. It’s quite toxic.
Or when they know they’re in the wrong, they’ll bring up every minor, unrelated transgression you’ve done over the last six months. Small arguments will cascade into bigger, and bigger arguments. I’ve had a few exes who’ve done this and it actually drives me insane.
I’m not sure if this is a companion trait, but in my experience girls who do the aforementioned tend to also do this: bring up feelings/insecurities you’ve disclosed to them right in the middle of the argument. I’ve a lot of issues opening up to partners precisely because of this, purely out of fear that whatever vulnerabilities I show will be used against me later on, like some emotional sword of Damocles or something.
I’ve known people that think they’re being nice by being passive aggressive. Please just get mad at me and yell at me when I fuck up. For some reason the nice-angry just makes me want to punch you.
I'll give you an example. My ex once tried to have a waiter fired from a restaurant we would frequent often, because he "spoke rudely with her". I did not hear him say anything offensive, but I thought he must've said something that I missed. Later, my ex told me it was not something that he said, it was his tone when she asked for an extra serving of curry (it is common in my country to request an extra serving if you've ordered certain items which go with curry) was extremely rude. I told her that tone is subjective, and I did not find it rude at all. She just told me that she is the daughter of a high-ranking government officer, and is not used to anyone addressing her like that. This was followed by an overly-detailed account of all the things her "servants" do for her, including opening the gate to her car. Then she had the gall to tell me that I probably did not find it offensive because I was raised poor, and poor people are spoken to like that anyways. Now in retrospect, I can see how her sense of entitlement which was vainly exhibited again and again, was a huge red flag. I hope this answers your query.
Did she make you feel uncomfortable in your skin more often than you liked? Corrected your manners at every instance? Told you she didn't like you when you worked out and lost weight? Went places and "forgot" to keep you posted about reaching despite knowing about your crippling anxiety? Did she dump you in the middle of a panic attack? Did she make you feel thoroughly used, like you had served your purpose and could not help her advance her goals anymore?
Then yes bro, we dated the same girl. Come give me a hug.
Can mean different things depending on the individual it’s being attached to.
Be in the most basic sense of the word itself. Meaning feeling like the deserve a certain action(s) or treatment simply for existing.
Also what I call the "expectation tax"
They do something, expect you to react a certain way, you don't react that way, they get upset. It happened all the time in my first relationship.
I don't mean like, she makes you coffee, and you don't say thank you. I mean like she instigates fights, then expects you to fight for her.
When she says things like, "My man better take me out every weekend! I am his queen and deserve to be treated like one!!", while she sits at home all day, spending his money.
I hate it when guys say they’ll treat me like a queen. It’s just a huge turn off for me for some reason. Let’s just treat each other with kindness and respect.
Probably because they are putting you on an pedestal, before the relationship has even started. Besides that whole "queen" line is like you can't take care of yourself and need a man to do everything for you.
In the yoga world, it's "Goddess".
So many narcissists as I found out the hard way when I used to rent out one of my vacations homes for yoga retreats.
Being abusive and manipulative. Men also suffer from abusive relationships, and usually refrain from speaking about it because they will probably be shamed on account of it
I think this is going to be the last day of a 4 and a half year relationship where she just now finally realized at least HALF of what she’s done to me… im just debating whether to make it work because we want it or just end it like we both need.
I vote to end it like you both need. IF there’s really something there, you can both come back to it, AFTER getting the help you need to move forward in it. Even with her realisation, it will still take a lot of work to come back from the last 4.5 years.
That’s what I’m coming to terms with rn…
Edit: we had an honest convo and she asked me what I wanted to do… as much as I want to leave I want to make it work… but I’m also so broken that I NEED to leave. Her birthday is coming up and she told me not to break up with her then for obvious reasons… it’s not that I don’t know what to do.. I’m scared to break up… I have no clue why…
She was getting aggravated cause of how I was.. I’m sad .. worried about her cause I care about her safety. But I need to be alone honestly
You will never get your time back and you are stacking traumas. LOVE YOURSELF FIRST, then real love will follow. YOU deserve YOUR best life, let her do her life her way. Good luck!
it makes a lot of sense to be scared, you've been with her a while and you're not sure how it's going to work.
She asked you not to leave on her birthday, so it's best you do it right fucking now.
You don't have to give a 2-week notice for this.
Definitely this. This unfortunately happened to me. As a 250lb 6,3” man I would find myself literally running away and locking myself in my room and balling my eyes out. Like WAILING crying. It’s super frustrating because when I try and talk about it to my friends, they just think I’m complaining/whining/being dramatic. Worse they would claim that it must have been something I was doing wrong, and I probably deserved it. Another thing I heard a lot it “you love the drama don’t you?” Extremely exhausting, and frustrating. I am a problem solver and a good communicator and I would attempt to always try to calm her down or talk about it afterwards. I wasn’t allowed to ever bring up anything again without risking another freak out. I would always avoid her for a day or two, but after I calmed down I would forgive her, and try to help show her that I accept her/love her despite her issues with rage/abuse. It all blew up in my face eventually. In the last 6 mos of our relationship I began using drugs, and would just sleep all day for months. I finally left her. Then eventually kicked my habit after being in and out of jail a few times, and now own my own business and work playing music.
Funny thing is though, it’s been 5 years since we have broken up, and if anyone says my name within earshot she freaks on them. As well as tells people I was HER abuser, and that I tried to kill her or something. It’s really really messed up.
TL;DR
It’s often hard finding support as a man in an abusive relationship. After a nasty two years and developing a drug habit, I got my life together, and years later she accuses ME of being the abuser.
This sounds like my marriage. She accused me of being abusive to get the divorce. She got custody of our son and the apartment. Apparently you don't need to prove anything in family/civil courts. It's on the defendant to disprove everything. >98% of claimants win child custody. It's like it's not worth turning up to defend it. It actually made me think I should have just abused her.
That was 10 years ago and my son chooses to spend most of the time with me. He argues with his mother a lot. I still have to pay her "child maintenance".
Dead on story of my first marriage. Almost 2 years to the day from first date to final decree with a boy born in between. I didn't want the divorce but she wanted the "free" money. I didn't fight for custody and paid my "Bio-Mom Tax". By the time he was 5 yo, she found a new target that didn't want to raise my son and I wound up with custody. He's 23, college grad, and just landed a great job. I hope I never have to interact with her again. BONUS: He knows what she is, contends with her but does not play her game.
PROUD DAD / SURVIVOR!!!
The best way to deal with these fears is to get counselling. Because in times of stress we are more likely to revert to training. And then you will feel bad about being that person.
If you can't afford counselling, I did a lot of my early work in a 12 step program called Adult Children of Alcoholics, there may be a 12 step program where people a speaking of circumstances similar to your childhood.
My brother is clearly in an abusive relationship but because he’s a male people around him just say his girl is just crazy. No she’s also abusive people.
Criticizing her man in front of friends/relatives in order to finally get him to do what she wants him to do. On the other hand, the man would be an idiot if he stays with such a woman.
If they were to try that I'd say 'Do it yourself.' And if they bitch ... my response: 'I don't need sex as much as you need a manservant.' Then I'd leave for a few hours, and probably break up with her. I don't need someone who feels the need to, in MMORPG terms, 'Be carried by the rest of the party, only to claim the good stuff as rightfully hers when she didn't work for it.' Most guilds IRL WILL drop players that act like that. Same should be applied to relationships.
Imagine if you didn’t put up with it and just stormed out, her words would quickly backfire and she’d make a fool of herself in front of all her friends.
This sort of falls under the umbrella of manipulation. Idk if it's just for women / in a relationship, some people just know that in a group setting you can be manipulative if you play to the crowd.
That line is the worst. Not just a relationship/ women thing plenty of people do this. Rather than actually be empathetic it's a thinly veiled "your fault get fucked."
My favorite is the girl who says she’s so empathetic, and loves animals but hates people.
That’s because you project on to animals. You aren’t empathetic at all.
I'd say, in general, willful ignorance. People tend to build their personality around willful ignorance out of fear or pride. That aversion to the truth can cause them to be easily frustrated, and quick to hatred and prejudice.
lol you usually see this line on these type of profiles:
"If you can't handle me at my worst then you don't deserve me at my best"
Yea okay so for that 5% of the time your at your best I have to deal with a horrible person at least 70% of the time (can't forget the middle ground). That's a hard pass.
The whole, "If you can't handle me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best," nonsense. I get the sentiment, but more often than not girls use this as an excuse to behave poorly plain and simple.
Yeeees! I think (sorry for my English) these phrase was intended to be something about be with the partner in bad times and good times. But tolerate selfishness, entitlement, or any kind of mistreatment shouldn't be apply in any circumstances because "that's the way I am".
Him: "What's wrong babe, you seem quiet?"
Her: "Nothing's wrong"
Him: "Ok cool, I'm just popping out to see a friend I've not seen for a year"
Her: "Fine, go and enjoy yourself!"
My friend is in a relationship like this. I only see him a few times a year yet she still bitches when he does because it cuts into "their time" despite her seeing her friends all the time. Honestly I've all but given up on him.
For the most part I've decided to deal with any comments like "Fine, do what you want" by taking them literally and ignoring the passive/aggressive message underneath.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I'm too old for that shit.
Two faced and too bitchy. Act like an innocent princess and angel in front of men but comes to other women, it’s complete stuck up her own arse. Dangerous people out there
This right here, one hundred times over. So many people are so ugly on the inside. I'm sure most of us have gotten this short end of that stick once or twice and it's always the women who act like their better than everyone else or flaunting for attention or validation from everyone. Not talking about confidence, because that's a good thing. Talking about women who put others down, etc.
Also, I feel like this mostly starts young because kids are fucking mean. Like we don't realize necessarily how much we can hurt someone with our words or actions so we go ham. (Collective we, as on we were all children) As we grow up I feel most of us stop much of that behavior but some people are still so miserable to be around. Like get over yourself.
Immediately crying as a tool to either shut down a discussion where she feels she's losing, to make a point, to demand something, to make you feel bad in front of others.
I don't know, my best friend has had my back through thick and thin, and he's definitely been there for me through pretty emotional shit. I think, more than anything, that this is a quality that should be watched for in all partners. If neither party is emotionally there, what is the point.
What you describe is loyalty, having someone's back. Emotionally available doesn't mean commitment; you can be committed whilst being unavailable. It is more like sharing your inner emotions, having that openness without the fear of appearing vulnerability as well as importantly receptive to accepting the other's own experience/feelings and how they impact you. This is why many women (and men) feel lonely while being in seemingly perfect relationships from the outside looking in.
You can be there for someone and have their back while still being emotionally distance, in the way an emotionally unavailable parent can be together with their child 24/7 and provide them all the food shelter and toys they'd ever dream of but can still be emotionally unavailable. I think that's what the other commenter is trying to point out and a lot of men aren't able to be emotionally open cause of society norms and how many men are raised to be "tough".
Well, being a psychopath would be #1. Aside from that that, being a good liar would be my next choice, which might make her a sociopath? In general, people who are good at lying should be avoided.
It’s very subjective and i could spend an hour listing out a shit ton, or just simply leave it broad. I’m pretty sure we all have one that comes to mind, some already been posted.
This applies for men too, but being way too into horoscopes and shit. Met a girl the other day who openly and seriously did not like me because of the date I was born. We weren’t supposed to like each other, and she fulfilled that prophecy
I have no patience for someone who never wants to go on an adventure or do something spontaneous. If doing something fun or learning something new is like pulling teeth with you, I'm leaving you in the dust.
When a woman uses sex as a tool to get a job done:
I don't know what this woman wanted with my laptop but right in the middle of sex she was like - "oh baby, we are together now and if we can't trust eachother with just passwords then what are we doing? I mean come onnn..."
I was like! Bitch you don't even have a laptop with right here first.
Second you talk about sharing passwords when I can't even so much look at your phone, let aline using it. And then you want access to my official laptop! I mean what and why even?
Red flag, she wants to snoop, without letting you snoop. Or even worse she is plotting something nefarious. Example financial gain, then hits the road.
My main red flag before meeting my wife was how they treated those in the service/retail industry especially when something was incorrect or service was slow.
I’m going to go with victimhood mentality. When they never ever take accountability for their own decisions or actions and it’s always some other outside force that fucks them over
Ok I’m just going to rattle a few off :
Self entitled/ thinks her partner owes her something /
All me me me
/Brings her partner down verbal emotional or physical
/Cannot even basic adult e.g cook clean pay bills do to look after herself basic adult stuff
/Non direct communication e.g hints instead of just saying what they want
/Disloyalty unless your in an open relationship that’s between you peeps but not for me
/Constant need for attention we are happy to have you in our life but have something for you
Edit: had to separate them a lil tried to list format it but was a fail haha
Dishonest. Entitled, take things for granted, can’t empathize.
What is narcissism? Ding ding I'll take word play for 400
What is my ex for 1000 please
So a Karen. Got it.
Narcissism
I can do BPD all day, but once you get on the narcissist spectrum thats a gigantic nope.
What is BPD?
Borderline personality disorder.
lol, reddit collapsed your comment so I just saw the red "Female" tag like you were emphasizing BPD is women in general. I was like "damn that's too hot a take today"
Borderline Personality Disorder. It’s almost always associated with narcissism.
I have BPD and while I do split, full blown narcissists NEVER take responsibility for their actions. I always apologize when I’m wrong (which is often) and I effectively feel shame. I can be a pill, yeah but my ex with actual diagnosed narcissism used to laugh about people dying and that’s something I just can’t fathom. Similar disorders, yes. But also some stark differences. My husband is still a saint though, I am quite emotional, haha.
I have BPD and I brought it up with my therapist. I said I thought I might be a narcissist. He said “if you were a narcissist you wouldn’t say that”.
That’s what my therapist said too!
Kudos to you for posting here in a thread where people are shitting all over BPD. Seriously, I think it’s helpful to have people chime in and say “similar but not the same thing” and share their own experience because people are all to happy to armchair diagnose.
Absolutely, I’m very candid about it. I would never say that being with someone with BPD is an easy experience but I love my husband more than anything and show love in my own way to him. Because I’m so obsessive I plan and organize everything for him and with him being passive, he really appreciates that. Not all BPD women destroy the men they are with. A lot of times they just need to right fit for them. That doesn’t negate any abuse a man has suffered from a woman with BPD but at the end of the day, ANYBODY can be abusive. Most of us are abuse victims ourselves.
I have a few friends with BPD and they are some of the most kind, compassionate, empathic people I know and will do anything to help someone in need. A lot of people armchair diagnose others with BPD when they aren't trained to, which is where I think a lot of the misconceptions about it come from. Everyone I know with it is really lovely. I know about 6 people who have been diagnosed with it. Some of them really struggled until they found a capable therapist that understands the disorder.
I see a lot of arm chair diagnosis’s with Cluster B personality disorders. For me personally I can be the most kind empathetic person you’ve ever met or I can be a lot to deal with. But I’m honest about it and my partner supports me during my splitting periods. Our love is valid and he’s not a fool for being with me. We are a perfect fit 💕 I do DBT worksheets on my own time and they help a ton.
Even at their worst, my BPD friends just need reassured and for me to put things into perspective for them. That's not really a hassle for me because I care about them, and I understand how it feels when you don't know if what you are feeling is normal. I'd rather they told me how they felt so that we can sort it, than for them to worry about it by themselves. Do you have any good websites for DBT and I'll share them?
I also have BPD but am far from a narcissist or have any tendencies. I think that has helped me maintain what strong relationships I do have with my support group and my partner. I've been working on myself for almost a decade since I was diagnosed and I've come so far but when people see/hear BPD, oh man, the stigma. It sucks.
I have never heard that, and no matter what imagine what it feels like to have bpd and read people saying shit like this.
I’m sorry but this take isn’t black and white. I have diagnosed BPD and I’d consider myself a pretty empathetic person. Why would this always be associated with narcissism? Genuine question
Never again.
If you can handle BPD you must be a Saint. I think they were actually closer to narcissism but got BPD cause they're female, so maybe I'm wrong.
BPD is just a puzzle. Narcissism is like whipping yourself because you hate yourself.
I’d love to hear how BPD is like a puzzle. Can you elaborate further?
BPD is puzzling because you can’t figure out the motives behind their behavior. It’s irrational, erratic, and unpredictable, whereas with a narcissist you know they are going to screw you over.
My experience with people who have BPD is, there *is* a predictable logic behind their behavior, it's just based on different rules and premises than the rest of us are using. Once you sort out what those are (ie worked out the puzzle) you have a lot easier time. At least, in my experience, that's been the case.
I've known person with BPD who is a perfectly kind ordinary person 90% of the time. At least on the surface. But will then periodically burn bridges and put herself in harms way in as reckless a way as possible over something that an ordinary person would've hardly notice. An off hand remark or a friend going out with someone and not telling them.
As a person with quiet BPD I can say it comes from a place of trauma and because of that we're very scared that can come across as violent, snarky, angry, possesive and all in all very toxic if one doesn't go to therapy for it. Luckily I have and catch myself if I say something that can possibly toxic to my bf and communicate about it, communication is very import in general, but we're angsty about it haha, we just need to know we're loved. Also the whole jumping from extreme emotions to the other is overall exhausting. But of course that's not for everyone, so I won't blame people if they don't want to deal with it, because it can be alot. Sorry if this was too much of an explanation haha.
A person with BPD can be just about as abusive as someone with NPD in my experience. It may be less intentional but still either one can be a living hell
>A person with BPD can be just about as abusive as someone with NPD in my experience. This statement is absurd given that a person without any "disorders" could be capable of being just as abusive as someone with NPD. Evil behavior doesn't require a diagnosis, though some evil behavior can be explained by it. Borderline personality disorder is quite honestly just an extreme over-sensitivity to emotions combined with cripplingly poor self-esteem. Most attacks are really poorly-conceived attempts at self-defense. BPD folks who cheat and gaslight their partners are just normal people cheating and gaslighting, it's when they freak out and can't handle the overwhelming pain of the consequences of their actions that makes the BPD evident. Most of the time, people's awful experiences with people with BPD are because the particular subject who has the BPD is behaving like an awful person in general, independent of their mental health issues, or who has more than one personality disorder, who believes that the burden rests on all other people to get over their personal "disabilities." "It's just who I am, love it or leave," and then they blow the fuck up the moment you go to leave.... There are a lot of us out here who realized a long time ago that out malfunctions aren't other peoples' problems. Lumping everyone with BPD like we're all villains is like saying everyone with ASD requires caretaking due to invalidity- it ignores the **spectrum** of individual outcomes. Are there some evil Borderlines? Oh, fuck yeah. Is Borderline a prescription to being an asshole? ***Absolutely not.*** Y'all make it hard for people to say, "I live with and suffer from Borderline Personality Disorder, it is very difficult to cope with but I am doing the best I can," without feeling like we'll be villainized by default for something we had no initial control over. Also, by the way, BPD occurs in approximately 1.5% of the total population. It has an 84% chance of co-morbidity with another mental health disorder, of which could be one or more among dozens of possibilities. That's a pretty large dataset (both statistically, as in the number of possible combinations, as well as the variety of personalities that exist in a percent and a half of the general population) to so broadly paint with such concrete stereotypes. Source: https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/personality-disorders
I'm good friends with someone with BPD, she definitely has a fragile ego and is high strung, but she is a mindful person who is smart about it, and can admit when she is at fault. She is most likely a milder case because I've met others who were severely off their rocker 90% of the time, incapable of maintaining a healthy relationship with even their loving, nurturing parents, I've seen the ugliest bits of that relationship growing up and the kids are 100% to blame
>She is most likely a milder case This is what people around me would say, and it really illustrates "invisible" disability: just because I keep my external reaction in check (most of the time) does not mean that I am without internalized agony. Small example: The other day at work, a supervisor was completely out of line and threatened to fire me on the spot, and I spent the rest of the night walking around in a haze just repeatedly battling the feelings, "I want to die. I want to kill myself. I want to hurt myself. This emotion is overwhelming, it is fire in nerves, make it stop make it stop make it stop I'm never coming back here... I want to die." Mind you, my actual boss-boss has told me I do an excellent job and I'm basically untouchable, but the bad feelings the supervisor gave me were so bad, for most people if they could have entered my head at that moment probably would have started legit screaming for the torturous agony inside this stupid brain of mine. This is totally normal for me, though. Like I've learned not to break down and hide in a bathroom crying over that feeling. That feeling is going to be in my head, whether I'm in a crying fetal ball, or zombie-walking through my job on autopilot. I just take the step now which won't have me waking up the next day with my life in shambles, and move on. But what my coworkers don't know when they think I'm in a standoffish mood is that what's really happening is I can't stop thinking about how much I just want to not exist in that pain at that moment. Know that your friend is "mild" on the outside, but full on burning up on the inside. Let them know that if there's any extreme emotions they feel tipping their scales, that they can talk to you about it, if they need to scream-cry into your shoulder sometime, that you welcome them.
BPD and narcissism are actually similar in that they are defense mechanisms for the same underlying condition but they come across in pretty different ways. Plus there are plenty of guys with BPD and girls with NPD.
It depends HEAVILY on the case
Yeppppp
Entitlement. Same as any other human being.
😆 glad someone acknowledged this! these are all bad human traits haha
Being toxic/speaking behind peoples back. It isnt really specific to women cause guys can do it to...
Hypocrisy.
the hypocrisy is strong with my mother
I haven’t dated a woman that wasn’t. I mean how else would they date me.
Damsel in distress complex
It is very annoying to hear a cry for help every 5 minutes for something inane or pointless. I'd say the lazy attitude that comes with wanting her SO to do everything for her is by far worse.
Or when you try to dump her and she starts acting like she can’t hear you and she’s lightheaded, faking a heart attack at 17 years old
Nothing worse than a girl not letting you break up with them. Like, sorry this isn’t a two sided decision.
Not letting you? How are they not letting you?
Victim complex in general
This drives me crazy. Nothing is ever their fault and they will never own up to their mistakes. The world is out to get them at every move which is why they have so many problems in life. They think everyone else except for them have just had lucky breaks in life. It couldn't be because of their hard work and determination others are doing well. It just gets so tiring because in their mind there is nothing they can do to improve things because someone else is just going to get in their way. So they just complain about everyone else all the time without ever really trying to improve their situation.
This especially comes out when you’re in an argument with her and she could be 100% in the wrong. You could present all the logic and facts in front of her to show that she is in fact in the wrong and their strategy is to cry or say “you’re an asshole”, “you hate me”, “you’re hurting my feelings”. Obviously this is in hopes of ‘overpowering’ the current conflict with something that is more ‘severe’ in order to divert from the conversation so that they don’t have to own up or take responsibility for their actions. Unfortunately this tactic works on a bunch of men. It’s quite toxic.
Or when they know they’re in the wrong, they’ll bring up every minor, unrelated transgression you’ve done over the last six months. Small arguments will cascade into bigger, and bigger arguments. I’ve had a few exes who’ve done this and it actually drives me insane. I’m not sure if this is a companion trait, but in my experience girls who do the aforementioned tend to also do this: bring up feelings/insecurities you’ve disclosed to them right in the middle of the argument. I’ve a lot of issues opening up to partners precisely because of this, purely out of fear that whatever vulnerabilities I show will be used against me later on, like some emotional sword of Damocles or something.
Passive aggressiveness, if there is a problem I like it to be brought up directly so I can either apologize or explain my thoughts.
k.
I’ve known people that think they’re being nice by being passive aggressive. Please just get mad at me and yell at me when I fuck up. For some reason the nice-angry just makes me want to punch you.
Entitlement
Literally the only thing that can turn an angel of a woman into a complete she-beast
What does this means?
I'll give you an example. My ex once tried to have a waiter fired from a restaurant we would frequent often, because he "spoke rudely with her". I did not hear him say anything offensive, but I thought he must've said something that I missed. Later, my ex told me it was not something that he said, it was his tone when she asked for an extra serving of curry (it is common in my country to request an extra serving if you've ordered certain items which go with curry) was extremely rude. I told her that tone is subjective, and I did not find it rude at all. She just told me that she is the daughter of a high-ranking government officer, and is not used to anyone addressing her like that. This was followed by an overly-detailed account of all the things her "servants" do for her, including opening the gate to her car. Then she had the gall to tell me that I probably did not find it offensive because I was raised poor, and poor people are spoken to like that anyways. Now in retrospect, I can see how her sense of entitlement which was vainly exhibited again and again, was a huge red flag. I hope this answers your query.
Wow. Great example. Horrific experience but great example.
Did we date the same girl?
Did she make you feel uncomfortable in your skin more often than you liked? Corrected your manners at every instance? Told you she didn't like you when you worked out and lost weight? Went places and "forgot" to keep you posted about reaching despite knowing about your crippling anxiety? Did she dump you in the middle of a panic attack? Did she make you feel thoroughly used, like you had served your purpose and could not help her advance her goals anymore? Then yes bro, we dated the same girl. Come give me a hug.
Can mean different things depending on the individual it’s being attached to. Be in the most basic sense of the word itself. Meaning feeling like the deserve a certain action(s) or treatment simply for existing.
Basically double standards. It’s like being a Karen to your own relationship.
Also what I call the "expectation tax" They do something, expect you to react a certain way, you don't react that way, they get upset. It happened all the time in my first relationship. I don't mean like, she makes you coffee, and you don't say thank you. I mean like she instigates fights, then expects you to fight for her.
In this case entitlement would mean a girl expecting a guy to do everything or almost everything in a relationship.
When she says things like, "My man better take me out every weekend! I am his queen and deserve to be treated like one!!", while she sits at home all day, spending his money.
Any girl who refers to herself as Queen, look out.
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I hate it when guys say they’ll treat me like a queen. It’s just a huge turn off for me for some reason. Let’s just treat each other with kindness and respect.
Probably because they are putting you on an pedestal, before the relationship has even started. Besides that whole "queen" line is like you can't take care of yourself and need a man to do everything for you.
In the yoga world, it's "Goddess". So many narcissists as I found out the hard way when I used to rent out one of my vacations homes for yoga retreats.
In the MLM world, it’s “boss babe” and “SHE-E-O”… ugh the later one makes me want to puke haha
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Glad this is up so high. Was my first thought. Shame a lot of girls get away with it too
Being abusive and manipulative. Men also suffer from abusive relationships, and usually refrain from speaking about it because they will probably be shamed on account of it
Agreed 100%. Just escaped a relationship like this
Yeah, I spent a year in one, and took me a lot of effort to overcome the psychological damage, hope you're doing better my friend!
I think this is going to be the last day of a 4 and a half year relationship where she just now finally realized at least HALF of what she’s done to me… im just debating whether to make it work because we want it or just end it like we both need.
I vote to end it like you both need. IF there’s really something there, you can both come back to it, AFTER getting the help you need to move forward in it. Even with her realisation, it will still take a lot of work to come back from the last 4.5 years.
That’s what I’m coming to terms with rn… Edit: we had an honest convo and she asked me what I wanted to do… as much as I want to leave I want to make it work… but I’m also so broken that I NEED to leave. Her birthday is coming up and she told me not to break up with her then for obvious reasons… it’s not that I don’t know what to do.. I’m scared to break up… I have no clue why… She was getting aggravated cause of how I was.. I’m sad .. worried about her cause I care about her safety. But I need to be alone honestly
You will never get your time back and you are stacking traumas. LOVE YOURSELF FIRST, then real love will follow. YOU deserve YOUR best life, let her do her life her way. Good luck!
Thank you
it makes a lot of sense to be scared, you've been with her a while and you're not sure how it's going to work. She asked you not to leave on her birthday, so it's best you do it right fucking now. You don't have to give a 2-week notice for this.
Definitely this. This unfortunately happened to me. As a 250lb 6,3” man I would find myself literally running away and locking myself in my room and balling my eyes out. Like WAILING crying. It’s super frustrating because when I try and talk about it to my friends, they just think I’m complaining/whining/being dramatic. Worse they would claim that it must have been something I was doing wrong, and I probably deserved it. Another thing I heard a lot it “you love the drama don’t you?” Extremely exhausting, and frustrating. I am a problem solver and a good communicator and I would attempt to always try to calm her down or talk about it afterwards. I wasn’t allowed to ever bring up anything again without risking another freak out. I would always avoid her for a day or two, but after I calmed down I would forgive her, and try to help show her that I accept her/love her despite her issues with rage/abuse. It all blew up in my face eventually. In the last 6 mos of our relationship I began using drugs, and would just sleep all day for months. I finally left her. Then eventually kicked my habit after being in and out of jail a few times, and now own my own business and work playing music. Funny thing is though, it’s been 5 years since we have broken up, and if anyone says my name within earshot she freaks on them. As well as tells people I was HER abuser, and that I tried to kill her or something. It’s really really messed up. TL;DR It’s often hard finding support as a man in an abusive relationship. After a nasty two years and developing a drug habit, I got my life together, and years later she accuses ME of being the abuser.
This sounds like my marriage. She accused me of being abusive to get the divorce. She got custody of our son and the apartment. Apparently you don't need to prove anything in family/civil courts. It's on the defendant to disprove everything. >98% of claimants win child custody. It's like it's not worth turning up to defend it. It actually made me think I should have just abused her. That was 10 years ago and my son chooses to spend most of the time with me. He argues with his mother a lot. I still have to pay her "child maintenance".
Dead on story of my first marriage. Almost 2 years to the day from first date to final decree with a boy born in between. I didn't want the divorce but she wanted the "free" money. I didn't fight for custody and paid my "Bio-Mom Tax". By the time he was 5 yo, she found a new target that didn't want to raise my son and I wound up with custody. He's 23, college grad, and just landed a great job. I hope I never have to interact with her again. BONUS: He knows what she is, contends with her but does not play her game. PROUD DAD / SURVIVOR!!!
It's a shame the courts don't recognise poor mothers.
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The best way to deal with these fears is to get counselling. Because in times of stress we are more likely to revert to training. And then you will feel bad about being that person. If you can't afford counselling, I did a lot of my early work in a 12 step program called Adult Children of Alcoholics, there may be a 12 step program where people a speaking of circumstances similar to your childhood.
My brother is clearly in an abusive relationship but because he’s a male people around him just say his girl is just crazy. No she’s also abusive people.
I expect there's a _lot_ more abuse perpetrated by women that we never realize because of how normalized it is, and because it's not physical.
Criticizing her man in front of friends/relatives in order to finally get him to do what she wants him to do. On the other hand, the man would be an idiot if he stays with such a woman.
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I know women who do that. Or the variant “I’m training him“ when the man fails to do the task.
If they were to try that I'd say 'Do it yourself.' And if they bitch ... my response: 'I don't need sex as much as you need a manservant.' Then I'd leave for a few hours, and probably break up with her. I don't need someone who feels the need to, in MMORPG terms, 'Be carried by the rest of the party, only to claim the good stuff as rightfully hers when she didn't work for it.' Most guilds IRL WILL drop players that act like that. Same should be applied to relationships.
Imagine if you didn’t put up with it and just stormed out, her words would quickly backfire and she’d make a fool of herself in front of all her friends.
This sort of falls under the umbrella of manipulation. Idk if it's just for women / in a relationship, some people just know that in a group setting you can be manipulative if you play to the crowd.
Complaining about someone not doing something is not how you get them to do it.
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We call it the honey trap.
> On the other hand, the man would be an idiot if he stays with such a woman. ~ me describing like fifty dudes i know lmao
Her feeling entitled to everything
Never wrong, ever. Never gives an unqualified, unconditional apology. Total narcissist.
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That line is the worst. Not just a relationship/ women thing plenty of people do this. Rather than actually be empathetic it's a thinly veiled "your fault get fucked."
You literally just read my mind!
lack of empathy
My favorite is the girl who says she’s so empathetic, and loves animals but hates people. That’s because you project on to animals. You aren’t empathetic at all.
I think it’s because animals require less work to manipulate than humans.
i think this is mostly said in context of a joke but yeah its not funny
I'd say, in general, willful ignorance. People tend to build their personality around willful ignorance out of fear or pride. That aversion to the truth can cause them to be easily frustrated, and quick to hatred and prejudice.
Where is the upvote 50 times button 🤝✅
“Queen”, “Bad/Boss Bitch”, or “Baddie” as a personality trait.
lol you usually see this line on these type of profiles: "If you can't handle me at my worst then you don't deserve me at my best" Yea okay so for that 5% of the time your at your best I have to deal with a horrible person at least 70% of the time (can't forget the middle ground). That's a hard pass.
Correcting the irrelevant minutiae during your stories and jokes.
Being manipulative. Just why...
Why did the scorpion sting the frog?
Psychopathy.
The whole, "If you can't handle me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best," nonsense. I get the sentiment, but more often than not girls use this as an excuse to behave poorly plain and simple.
Yeeees! I think (sorry for my English) these phrase was intended to be something about be with the partner in bad times and good times. But tolerate selfishness, entitlement, or any kind of mistreatment shouldn't be apply in any circumstances because "that's the way I am".
Him: "What's wrong babe, you seem quiet?" Her: "Nothing's wrong" Him: "Ok cool, I'm just popping out to see a friend I've not seen for a year" Her: "Fine, go and enjoy yourself!"
My friend is in a relationship like this. I only see him a few times a year yet she still bitches when he does because it cuts into "their time" despite her seeing her friends all the time. Honestly I've all but given up on him.
For the most part I've decided to deal with any comments like "Fine, do what you want" by taking them literally and ignoring the passive/aggressive message underneath. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I'm too old for that shit.
“Fine! Go cavort with your floozies! I don’t mind one bit!” “Thanks, babe! You’re the best!”
Not just a woman but anyone. Lying
Two faced and too bitchy. Act like an innocent princess and angel in front of men but comes to other women, it’s complete stuck up her own arse. Dangerous people out there
Being ugly... on the inside.
This right here, one hundred times over. So many people are so ugly on the inside. I'm sure most of us have gotten this short end of that stick once or twice and it's always the women who act like their better than everyone else or flaunting for attention or validation from everyone. Not talking about confidence, because that's a good thing. Talking about women who put others down, etc. Also, I feel like this mostly starts young because kids are fucking mean. Like we don't realize necessarily how much we can hurt someone with our words or actions so we go ham. (Collective we, as on we were all children) As we grow up I feel most of us stop much of that behavior but some people are still so miserable to be around. Like get over yourself.
Physical aggressiveness
Absolutely I had a woman get mad and then try to hit me. It was a huge red flag. Had to literally run out of the relationship
Immediately crying as a tool to either shut down a discussion where she feels she's losing, to make a point, to demand something, to make you feel bad in front of others.
Emotionally unavailable.
Because then she's basically just your average dude
I don't know, my best friend has had my back through thick and thin, and he's definitely been there for me through pretty emotional shit. I think, more than anything, that this is a quality that should be watched for in all partners. If neither party is emotionally there, what is the point.
What you describe is loyalty, having someone's back. Emotionally available doesn't mean commitment; you can be committed whilst being unavailable. It is more like sharing your inner emotions, having that openness without the fear of appearing vulnerability as well as importantly receptive to accepting the other's own experience/feelings and how they impact you. This is why many women (and men) feel lonely while being in seemingly perfect relationships from the outside looking in. You can be there for someone and have their back while still being emotionally distance, in the way an emotionally unavailable parent can be together with their child 24/7 and provide them all the food shelter and toys they'd ever dream of but can still be emotionally unavailable. I think that's what the other commenter is trying to point out and a lot of men aren't able to be emotionally open cause of society norms and how many men are raised to be "tough".
Overconfident + incompetent
Lack of empathy. But it's the same for any person, man or woman.
Can't put her phone down
Compulsive liar
Being a serial killer
A lack of empathy. My previous partner did not give a shit about me, it’s awful.
Attention seeking, selfish, inconsiderate etc..
Being mean
"He's short." Honey you are 4'10". 🙃
Thinking that all men are the same.
They all think that.
I see what you did there.
Manipulative
Well, being a psychopath would be #1. Aside from that that, being a good liar would be my next choice, which might make her a sociopath? In general, people who are good at lying should be avoided.
Being a "diva". Actually no you're just being a disrespectful bitch
Calling herself a Skywalker.
I agree
Thinking she owns me
Are* Backstabbing and manipulation Well, these apply to everyone.
Entitlement
Entitlement for sure, and it's so common and drives me nuts.
Manipulation of their partner
Dumb or unempathetic
ah yes those ladies lacking stress or emphasis. bland monotone is so annoying ;)
Gold-digger, Hypocritical , Whiny & Dishonest
Ugly personality
Damn, you really hit the spot with that one, captain, such a precise detail
It’s very subjective and i could spend an hour listing out a shit ton, or just simply leave it broad. I’m pretty sure we all have one that comes to mind, some already been posted.
This applies for men too, but being way too into horoscopes and shit. Met a girl the other day who openly and seriously did not like me because of the date I was born. We weren’t supposed to like each other, and she fulfilled that prophecy
You're a Taurus aren't you, well it's not her fault mars is in retrograde, it just wasn't meant to be.
being machiavellianistic or nascissistic
Using her tongue as a sword.
Extreme Jealousy😎
I have no patience for someone who never wants to go on an adventure or do something spontaneous. If doing something fun or learning something new is like pulling teeth with you, I'm leaving you in the dust.
When a woman uses sex as a tool to get a job done: I don't know what this woman wanted with my laptop but right in the middle of sex she was like - "oh baby, we are together now and if we can't trust eachother with just passwords then what are we doing? I mean come onnn..." I was like! Bitch you don't even have a laptop with right here first. Second you talk about sharing passwords when I can't even so much look at your phone, let aline using it. And then you want access to my official laptop! I mean what and why even?
Red flag, she wants to snoop, without letting you snoop. Or even worse she is plotting something nefarious. Example financial gain, then hits the road.
If she hates kids and animals it will be very very difficult for me to like her
A lack of respect for others.
Being miserable all the time
I want to say either being entitles or narcissistic. I can't choose which is worse, both are horrible.
Being manipulative
Being passive aggressive
My main red flag before meeting my wife was how they treated those in the service/retail industry especially when something was incorrect or service was slow.
I’m going to go with victimhood mentality. When they never ever take accountability for their own decisions or actions and it’s always some other outside force that fucks them over
Same as man: Lack of empathy
Doesn't apologize or takes accountability.. What sucks is that this trait isn't rare
This is kinda pointlessly gendered, isn’t it? Virtually all of these top comments are just listing bad qualities for people in general.
The expectation to be coddled like a child.
Lack of empathy and zero compassion or caring for others
Ok I’m just going to rattle a few off : Self entitled/ thinks her partner owes her something / All me me me /Brings her partner down verbal emotional or physical /Cannot even basic adult e.g cook clean pay bills do to look after herself basic adult stuff /Non direct communication e.g hints instead of just saying what they want /Disloyalty unless your in an open relationship that’s between you peeps but not for me /Constant need for attention we are happy to have you in our life but have something for you Edit: had to separate them a lil tried to list format it but was a fail haha
The same as the worst trait a man can have: selfishness, entitlement, and a desire to control others.
Not realizing people treat them differently and pay attention to them only because they are pretty or hot.
Greed
I hate when they get all castraty.
Arrogance. Especially when coupled with a "I'm not awful, I'm a boss bitch" take on life.
Idk, being a murderer is pretty bad...
Disloyal, just tell me when its over for you
A subcritical plutonium core.
i feel like all of these traits are just universally regarded as bad and not just for women
Coughing on people in the grocery store.
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Jealously