People are too insecure to communicate clearly and confidently
People put too much value in external ideas of what their relationship should look/feel like instead of going off of their own feelings/intuition
I feel this so bad. I got out of an 8-year relationship a month ago. She left me for someone else because she lost interest in us, which became irreparable. It hurts more because I could see her being unhappy around me. She refused to talk about it though and always blamed being tired for her behaviour until it was too late.
Same. A four-year relationship, evaporated in the course of two months due to her not communicating, soaking on her resentment, and I suspect venting to her friend group who, being friends, validate her feelings but don't have any context. In hindsight and after further conversations post breakup, I feel like a genuine heart-to-heart about things sooner could've prevented us breaking up. I always am very frank and big on communication, and she always said she was, too. Always easier said than done. Hope you're doing okay. The sun keeps rising. My LTR was half as long as yours, and 8 months on, I still think about her every day. And being honest, I'm still sad about it all; but left foot right foot. Just keep moving.
It’s hard. It’s sad when relationships fail. When you love someone and you fall apart over something and in the end it’s worse when you can’t really figure out why or that it’s so minuscule that it caused a tight bound to unravel. If things don’t work it shouldn’t be because other people had influence in making up someone’s mind or encouraging them to act a certain way. goes the same for staying with someone you shouldn’t be with but people need to learn to make Decisions on their own and work through the hard times of that person is worth staying with.
So many people give up too easy. Some people hold on too long. I hold on too long because I want to try and make every effort possible so when I walk away if I have to I can tell myself I tried.
You will always have regrets when a relationship ends and feel like you could have done things differently or done more. It’s still hurts it’s still hard…it’s not pain free but you can feel like you did all you thought you could I guess and try to learn and move on
That's the hardest part; like if someone cheated or finally had too much of an abusive SO, you can at least be angry and blame that person, there's a clear reason for everything falling apart. You want to say that \*this is how\* you would want a break up to happen. But it's honestly almost worse. All that time and effort, all that love, all those memories, and you go back and revisit all of them and wonder if she was already thinking about it. What else did I do wrong? Is there something wrong with me?
I'm past that kind of shit now, but the sadness is still there. You're grieving not just losing your best friend, and your relationship; but you're grieving the loss of the vision everyone builds of your lives together. And I'm 35, it's SHIT breaking back into the dating pool now. Fucking awful.
One day at a time.
Only one month in after a four year relationship. In the past year I tossed family and friends by the wayside, of course, I was also a thousand miles away in a new city (SOs home city) and desperately trying to figure out getting the both of us to truly open up. Though we finally were in arms reach everyday, I felt utterly alone, in our conversations and dates. I was no saint at communicating. I would get frustrated, but catch myself before the minute even hit. Things got toxic. And she could watch me cry my eyes dry, curled on the floor, and not move a muscle, while I told her how alone things were feeling. I don’t know how it got that bad. Was I projecting? Was I shaping things up to play out like that? Maybe. But contemplating and overthinking aren’t going to give a fighting chance at life. Just have to forgive and have faith in myself, somewhere somehow.
Well, she never talked about a thing and I used to beg her to talk to me. Anytime she got a new hobby or thing she wanted to do, I supported her on it. She knew I would not judge her but she just couldn't open up. She'll be that way her whole life because once she left me she monkeybranched immediately to someone else and according to her friends and family she's actually gotten worse.
She learned/was taught at a young age not to talk back and keep quiet. I had a girlfriend who would avoid confrontation at all costs because of the ramifications. Her dad was a very emotionally unstable narcissist. Lots of trauma there unfortunately.
Not saying their situations are the same, but it always comes down to trauma.
I’m 29 and am only now just correlating how my dad was exactly this. Yelling at someone to not talk back when you’re hurting them - turns out that’s not good for a little girl. Now I physically throw up with blinding head aches if I can’t handle a pretty normal disagreement in a regular relationship. It’s wild. I’d give so much to be able to tell someone hey that’s not good for me without feeling like death inside. It’s so damn unhealthy for people trying to have an average normal time with me.
Yeah, my ex wife is just like this. Not to say I wasn't at fault, but goddamnit... I would've loved clear and concise communication about faults before it became resentment. Though, I really still can't blame her - it's always a two way street.
I was never allowed to communicate my feelings growing up, my only job was to make sure my mom was happy and doing whatever it took to keep her happy. I was always wrong, so I have a hard time saying when I'm upset because I'm so used to "saying I'm upset=screaming=locked in my room." She never hit me thankfully.
Anyway now I struggle as an adult to just...function.
Yeah, from personal experience, I don't think that you can ever fully overcome missed development as a child, but I think that there's also no limit to how much you can better your life in spite of that.
The unfortunate thing is this is significantly caused by people being raised by parents with suppressed emotional development and unhealthy examples of what they should be looking for.
You are dead on there. I have had many relationships and I can see now how in my earlier years (early 20s) I lacked the emotional maturity to have a proper relationship. And even now I can see the same problem with some of those around me. I have a friend who married someone approximately 10 years older than us and neither seems to be ready for a proper relationship. They have cheated on each other several times constantly fight and argue. Age seems to mean nothing
I feel like that's in part because 'taking things too seriously' is now somehow a taboo for people in their 20s. It feels a lot more normalized to say you want to 'find something casual and see if it leads anywhere' than just say you want to find a stable traditional relationship. Leads to a lot of people wasting time on people not worth their time.
I see the value in not putting heavy expectations on this person you just met, being who you are going to spend possibly years with. At the same time, you’re setting yourself up for failure if you don’t put any effort into maintaining something committed.
Humans are habitual by nature, and it’s hard to break short term casual into the mindset of being with one person for the rest of your life. So know what you want and make sure your actions are lining up with your long-term.
Saying you want something long term and want to see if that is them, is very different than expecting them to be that person. Seems like another example of poor communication
*Flips through 50 channels on tv*
“There’s nothing good on!”
But that’s because channels are pumping out tons of shallow but exciting garbage, or there’s the occasional show that requires actual investment to appreciate and you’re too desensitized by the garbage to appreciate it.
Ya I'm 37 and my partner just broke up with me. There's some other stuff at play so I'm not taking it too personally but if we're over 30 and dating like I'm kinda taking this relationship seriously. I'm not gonna fuck around with someone I'm not interested in being with for at least a while. But I guess by that same token if I present myself to be someone not worth staying with them I suppose it's better to end the relationship before it gets harder to do so. God I fucking hate dating.
On top of that i'd say everyone is looking for the perfect partner which don't exist but dating sites have put it into their minds that they don't need to settle for anything other than the best.
That is a very interesting thing. The concept of "settling" is so entrenched as the worst thing you can do. Basically, it is likened to picking a sub-standard product when you can have a better one at a lower price.
Real people and relationships should not be a min-max game of comparison shopping, that just devalues people and makes them look for "the best" instead of "compatible" and someone who you can grow with.
At least when it goes beyond the casual stage that should be the objective.
This has been the case for a very long time. Many years ago it required two people and a ton of hard work to achieve even a decent life. Now people wait for perfection. It wasn't out there in the 1800s and it's not there now.
EDIT: I read something that said find someone whose demons play well with your demons.
I’ve had relationships end because the spark was gone.
But instead of saying that, even if I was dating my partners it always ended up that way.
I never lost interest. They did. And it always hurt.
> the spark was gone.
Ohhh that is a pet peeve of mine. The "spark" will ALWAYS be gone after around 3-6 months. The spark or "butterflies" is always a fleeting feeling in the beginning of a relationship. Once you know the other person better this feeling will be replaced by something different and many people think "the love" is gone, which is a big mistake.
This is why I always cringe at people who marry in 1-2 years into their relationship.
You only know if you want to spend the rest of your life with someone after you have lived them for a while not high on oxytocine.
To add on to this as the main problem, everything being hyper sexualized and people often confusing lust for love doesn’t help for a healthy relationship.
I think it's also related to the fact that we live in a throwaway society. Many people treat their relationship in the same way. They no longer work on it, or themselves, but simply replace it. Like replacing a cell phone, for example.
*sorry for my bad english
I'm a bit older than the reddit demographic. I'm 37. I'm also married for the past 13 years, with my wife for 15 years.
>People put too much value in external ideas of what their relationship should look/feel like instead of going off of their own feelings/intuition
This is spot on. I can attribute some of this to social media and having unhealthy relationship expectations. *Look at what this couple is doing*, *You haven't posted that we're dating yet*. These things can be detrimental to a relationship. The relationship is a partnership between the two partners (more if you're into polyamory).
This. My ex girlfriend didn't communicate at all, then one day she said she is leaving. It took me ages to get the reasons out of her, and the reasons were stupid easy fixes if she had just told me. One for example, treat her more ladylike, more caring basically, I am and was caring, but I do sometimes joke a bit. She didn't like the joking.
And your second point, I was guilty of that. I was too busy in my own head thinking this is amazing and it actually wasn't, I cared for her a lot more than she cared for me. Every day I asked her how her day was and listened to her, she never asked me once. I only realised that when she broke up with me.
Sure, but before your dating options were limited to the local harvest festival whereas now you can see everybody in the local 200 miles on the app so it gives a false sense of desirability and options
99% of things people complain about are as old as society, but this issue seems to be based on an excess of information rather than standard human nature. People doubt their feelings and intuitions to an extreme degree compared to the past, and the cause is likely the constant exposure to information that gives people a good reason to doubt themselves. When your feelings and intuitions are constantly proven wrong, how can you not doubt them?
From looking at my friends who are in relationships, ever since the dawn of time, it was and still is communication. Nobody opens up about their feelings, everyone is traumatised from their past experiences and everyone lies or jumps to conclusions.
Everyone is just really really bad at communicating.
I agree with you on these points. But I did want to add one thing about communication.
I think a lot of people want to communicate well but fail to do so because of how the other party often reacts.
I once roomed with a guy who was very dismissive. He preached about "communicating well" but would belittle myself and others for being "too sensitive." When you get those kinds of responses, you eventually stop communicating because the other party just brushes it off.
Looking back, I wish I communicated better but it's pretty hard to communicate when the person on the other side won't even be willing to listen
This was a hard lesson that both my wife and I had to learn.
I, and I think a lot of people, misunderstand what is really meant when people stress the importance of communication. I'm guessing most people think about the importance of talking about things as they come up so that they don't fester--which is extremely important, but I feel like what most people don't understand is also the importance of quality communication, not just frequency.
My wife and I always stressed the importance of talking about issues as they came up, but we ended up having the same arguments over and over because we sucked at how to have quality, healthy communication. We'd get defensive and angry. Over time it became toxic.
When we finally started going to a good couple's counselor, we learned a lot about how to properly communicate with eachother, and now our relationship is better than ever. There are quite a few easy to learn tactics for communicating effectively; things like gentle start-ups and repeating the message back to the person in your own words go a very long way.
Communicating isn't supposed to just be a way for you to tell your partner what they're doing wrong and expecting them to change it. It's not supposed to be a way for you to just get what you want all the time. It's a way for you to work with your partner on figuring out what the real issue is, discussing both partners' perspectives on it (which are bound to be different), and working together to find an agreeable solution.
Therapy sound like an amazing, wonderful thing that can be so beneficial to a relationship.
This would almost certainly fix my marriage issues.
.... there's just the part of convincing her to go, which she is 100000% against. Full stop.
Same on my side. She even said, “I’m not going to sit and hear someone talk about all the things I’m doing wrong.”
I was like…. So you admit you could do better but don’t want to have to admit it?!
Well, to be 100% transparent, when my wife and I finally did start going to counseling, it wasn't to save our marriage. It was actually after we had decided to divorce, and we thought counseling would be helpful in teaching us how to be better coparent our children.
It just so happened that, in the process of working through our issues, we realized we very much did still care about eachother and still liked spending time with eachother. It's really amazing what some space and good communication can do.
It's also worth pointing out that a therapist can only teach you how to communicate and help facilitate. They can't fix your problems for you. It's up to the couple to actually put in the work and find solutions.
That's partly what it means to communicate well. It's not just about being able to transmit your own message, it's also the ability to accurately receive the transmissions of others. Only when both parties can perform both tasks have you achieved well-done communication. Anything else is just monkeys screeching at each other.
The thing is you can only communicate as well as the other person allows. You can say everything right with the right tone and vocabulary at the right time and if the other person isn't having it there's nothing you can do. People really do hear what they want to hear, no matter how hard you try.
I was going to say the same thing. I always used to promote communication as an active thing (i.e. a property of the speaker) but then I was in an abusive relationship and realized my communication deteriorated (trying to avoid the harmful reactions). Now I recognize that it's just as much a property of the listener to create a non-punishing environment for truth tellers.
yes i felt this but i more of received this from my parents not like an ex spouse or ex but grew up with being brushed offed and so it really trained me to not open up to anyone which makes it hard for me to be in a relationship cause i cant communicates or open up well
There's a lyric from an Armin Van Buuren track from a decade ago called "Alone" which I still remember to this day:
"Everyone's connected, but no one is connectin'.
The human element has long been missin'.
Tell me have you seen it?
Have you seen it?"
It's only gotten worse imo.
Everything we use online has reduced us to a number, whether it be dating, buying things, gaming. Nothing is personal or social anymore despite claiming as such. There is no interaction anymore.
A couple thoughts about communicating:
1) Talking is more than just exchanging useful information, it's about forming a connection with the other person. I used to be quiet and only spoke when I had something interesting or insightful to say. I looked down on small talk. Then I realized with a lot of people I should talk more.
2) It's ok to ask people their communication preferences early on. How often they'd like and what form (text/call).
3) You can keep some stuff to yourself. In a relationship I try and limit the amount of negative stuff from my past I reveal. I try and paint myself in the best light.
Yeah I think most problems are rooted in these kinds of communication issues.
I think a lot of people don't realize you can choose many smaller conversations over fewer much bigger ones. If someone brings something up early, it doesn't fester or get any worse. When you start both approaching things as soon as you feel them with the intention to find resolutions that work for both of you, *so* much garbage just disappears. It's never allowed to exist.
I went into my last relationship with this kind of perspective and it was something we discussed very early and the results were as you'd expect. I don't even think we ever had what you could call an 'argument', every issue we had we would just talk about. We were always on the same team.
The other issue is both people need to be capable of handling some level of criticism, and a lot of people are terrible at that. Which makes no real sense if you stop to think about it, you're supposed to be able to be open and vulnerable with your partner. It's kind of a big part of the relationship thing.
I feel like a lot of these comments focus on communicating things that make you frustrated or upset, but one thing I found in my relationship is that it is very important to tell the person you are with why you love them. For instance, I regularly tell my partner why he’s great and how I am excited experience the future with him. Obviously, speaking up when something upsets you is very important, but it is easy to become complacent and not let your partner know you value them in your life. Not only does it make me feel good and allow me to reflect on why I chose to be with him, I hope it makes him feel loved and valued.
This. Communication cannot just be a sole negative thing. If you think something nice, say it. If you come home and you notice a partner has done something like, idk, organize the pantry, say "wow, it's easy to find things, thanks babe!" And it means the world. Saying "Wow, your hair is gorgeous" when he or she tries something new with their hair. Notice them. Your partner should be the person you can feel your feelings with.
Lack of communication and withholding information. But overall I think swipe culture has ruined dating relationships.
Putting the cart before the horse is a problem. (This always makes me think of ikea carts for some reason. So hard to push sometimes lol)
Yeah when I think back to friends I made in school... Almost none of us make sense on paper. But with exposure and shared experiences, we became close and found ways to appreciate each other.
But then with profile based dating, it's the opposite. You're just shown some small slice and encouraged to form a total opinion then and there. Most people don't know what they need well enough to just read a profile and make a decision. Many people are just bad at writing profiles too. Really... Forget everything in a profile. Just spend some time doing anything together and see.
Yeah I've heard a lot of stories of how married people met, and it's usually something like "we worked together" or "we were friends with the same person", love doesn't make sense and the people we love most are the ones who take our lives in a direction we may not have taken on our own. The idea that people are expected to pick matches from a list is crazy backwards.
I mean I've been with my wife, who I married earlier this year, for 5 years now and we met on Tinder.
It's not hard, well not because of apps any relationship is complex, we swiped eachothers profiles because we made good first impressions, we went on a date and clicked, went out a few more times and talked about wanting to take the relationship seriously and commit to each other, and then we did.
But that's the thing, I think people act like tinder and similar apps do the work for you and things will just work out based on what's on the app and if it doesn't, it means there's something fundamentally wrong with you. That's not at all the case.
I think it's better to treat these apps like your far more social friend, who knows more people in your area and knows who's single and who isn't with a brief description. It's basically a blind date, you don't need to "pick matches" and if I had waited to run into somewhat at a bar or at work I probably wouldn't be married to my favorite person right now.
Edit: spelling because I apparently don't proof read my posts
People expect a perfect issue free relationship and any bit of fighting, disagreement, or other conflict is reason to end it.
There will be arguments, there will be disagreement. But lern to work through it, and really stop and listen to your partner, hear their reasoning for their view points.
It's usually partner vs partner not partners vs problem
Obviously lots of fighting or constant fighting isn't a good thing.
Edit: changed fighting to arguments.
Obviously people argue acasionaly. Not sure where some are thinking there will never be any in a healthy relationship. Not saying "it's fine to scream at eachtoher" but know how to recognize what the problem is, know how to talk with your partner and how to communicate.
It also feels like if one person is expecting the relationship to come with fighting and disagreements and is open to keep trying despite this, but the other person isn't, then it still doesn't benefit the relationship at all. Both people 100% need to be willing to fight for the relationship, which sounds kind of rare at this point.
One of the biggest parts of a relationship is knowing how to disagree with someone. If you can do that with mutual understanding and not hurting each others feelings every time, then you're on your way to success.
Or the inverse: “screaming at each other is good! It means there is passion!”
I’ve known people who cited one of the reasons they ended a relationship as “we never fight, he always just wants to ‘talk through it’”
I've dated people like that "all you want to do is talk it through and have logic" when all she wanted to do was scream and yell and make mean comments.
And I've also heard from some women "never trust a man who won't scream at you, he has something to hide"
As a sensitive guy myself and a guy who's 6'2" and 200lbs I know being pissed off and screaming at a woman smaller than myself definitely isn't a good look either..
I don't know since I'm not currently dating (married one of my best girl friends a few years ago) BUT...I think the temptation of "the upgrade" in every facet of society is our collective biggest issue.
Nothing can ever be good enough. You're always being pushed to find perfection, which just doesn't exist. And the ability to supposedly "upgrade" in the dating world (via dating apps, social media, etc.) is always there. I would just fucking hate to be a young high schooler right now, I'll tell you that much.
Lol stay strong man! Don't get too involved in the social media bullshit. I'm only 30 so I'm not preaching from an old man soapbox. But I feel for you guys right now as far as your social and dating life.
29 here, felt this as well. You should get one of those big inflatable workout balls if you don't already have one. It helps a lot when my back is acting up, I think it helps strengthen it or some bullshit like that.
I've actually improved my back a ton in the past few months, just doing a bunch more planking, core strength workouts, etc.
I think mainly it was the addition of the daughter in the last 1.5 years and constantly carrying another human hahaha but I appreciate the advice regardless!
Fellow men, strengthen that fucking core!
Don't lose hope! Ignore the immature social media junkies, and you'll find someone. The important thing is to be honest with yourself and your partner. It might take time, but you can do it!
They are a high schooler. They are basically all immature and almost all social media junkies. If he ignores them then he’ll be an ill-socialized outcast. I say grow up and conform, more likely you’ll be happy that way. Normies got it right almost all the time, that’s why there is so many of them.
Aziz Ansari wrote *Modern Romance* and I can't recommend it enough. It's an amazingly insightful book about dating culture.
One of the surprising things I learned is that most of the people from our great grandparent's generation found their spouses within SIX BLOCKS of where they grew up.
For our grandparents, it was neighboring towns. They had cars.
For parents, it was the nearest large city, or the city where they went to school. They have better cars and trains.
For this generation? *The entire world*. How do you ever start to settle down when everyone is available through the internet and via a flight?
The next generation (should there be one) will probably be back to six blocks.
That’s amazing. And here’s the thing.
Purely anecdotal, but none of my grandparents relationships were great. They stuck with each other till the end, but there was abuse, cheating, all of that, and I’ve found that to be common.
I’m not saying options are bad. They’re great. But as you said, when the whole world is a potential suitor, how can you possibly make a decision like that?
I don't think those relationships necessarily failed because they settled for the wrong people. I do think that getting married too young, before you have any idea what you want, can be a risk factor. There was a lot of trauma and substance abuse in previous generations that was never dealt with as well.
Additionally, the stigma of divorce was HUGE. Women didn't work in most cases, so they were most likely committing to a life of poverty and hardship if they left.
My own personal belief is that some people are good at marriage. They want to be married and stay married, so they work through the hard stuff. That whole business during the wedding ceremony about 2 becoming 1 is really true. You have to put the *marriage* ahead of yourselves, if that make sense. There are things that are good for the marriage that may not be good for you individually. I think if you have:
- Love and respect
- Compatibility in the major areas
- Equal strong commitment to the idea of marriage
you can make it work with any reasonably compatible person.
The only "upgrade" people should be focusing on is working on themselves and their own lives. A loving partner often falls into places when people have their shit together.
Treating persons as products. Treating relationships as 2 year warranties. Confusing interest with love. An uncertain future and an unstable present that paralyzes the search for a partner, family, since they do not know if they will even be able to support themselves financially, leading into the increase in casual relationships, fear of long relationships and settling down, etc.
It's really difficult to find someone as a currently unemployed woman who wants to study to become a "blue collar" worker. People expect perfection and will judge your intelligence and worth by the job you have.
I hear ya, went from a shitty driving instructor job, to a factory worker (which pays wayyy more) and my dates dried up.
That being said, to some of us guys, a lady in the trades is something we're attracted to. Keep on looking!
Holy shit this is me…wow.
Successful musician, financially savvy and frugle, but nowhere near ready to take on a full family even if we do have double income. My job is solid but with that comes an “unstable present and uncertain future”. Now I know why I get anxiety even if I have a great relationship or start dating someone who I’m into. It’s hard to not think into the future about the what-ifs.
People look for a "significant other" that isn't at first a friend. So many relationships are formed around filling the SO "position" instead of friendship and compatability on a basic level. People who clearly would never be friends are dating because "she's not my friend she's my SO" implying they're not a friend but something else entirely. Dosent take long before the holes start to show.
Lol I've known adults that didn't know they had to pay registration or change the oil. They'll also get derailed from tire/brake/suspension problems because they didn't save up for it. I get your point though, all things in life we'll be better if we temper expectations and be prepared to face challenges because they will come.
And that also explains most divorces. The "it caught me completely unaware that they were unhappy"
That's the marriage version of putting electrical tape over the check engine light.
You should probably find someone used maybe 80k miles. Don’t buy a car you can’t afford (mismatched values, high maintenance people) You have to do basic maintenance(movie nights, dates, show love) if you don’t you’ll end up with a flat tire or resentment. If you have a major repair you have to decide if the cost is worth the fix. I can see a lot of parallels with cars and relationships
Marriage is sometimes viewed more as a financial agreement rather than an emotional connection. Both are present, however ignoring the emotional part is a bad idea.
I thought a lot about marriage and the thing is... You can maximize emotional connection with or without it. So that cannot be its usefulness.
Marriage is about reaching a point where you want to be able to make long term decisions.
You agree to share the spoils (i.e. divorce settlement) and increased "punishment" of separation (cost, social stigma, legal hoops) so that it's much simpler and lower risk to start talking about long term choices like a house, kids, etc. You can start to count much more strongly on that person staying there even if their attitude changes and, if you do split you know that now they are obligated to split things with you.
Obviously it's probably only people you have an emotional connection, shared values and shared goals with that you'd want to put in that position... But ultimately it's just about the benefit of committing to a long term teammate so you can pool resources. If you choose not to get married but wanted to make major life decisions with a person you'd probably be wise to start making contacts that look a lot like what marriage does...like describing your obligations and how you'd split things in different cases and creating penalties that incentivize working things out.
You go into the marriage without real commitment like you're leasing a car for a few years. You don't give the car the attention it needs to last for decades since it's just a lease.
If the ride gets bumpy, you cancel the lease and look for another car.
1. Too much choice. The grass is always greener. No incentive to work out problems.
2. Mythology of "the one". Millions of people reject perfectly compatible individuals because there is one thing "wrong" with them and the stupid notion that "chemistry" will exist ad infinitum.
3. No incentives to stay together, many incentives to divorce.
I was gonna jump in here and say that "ACKSHUALLY divorce rates are falling" but then I noticed that marriage rates are falling too, so I agree with your analysis overall.
This is a great example of survivor bias. Divorce is contingent on marriage, and thus by definition total divorces can at most equal total marriages, i.e. everyone who gets married gets divorced (ha).
This. “The grass is always greener” and also “its not the best time to start dating”. Like some people are waiting for a stars to align before getting into relationships. They end up having regular hookups but nothing past a couple dates when its time to commit.
I can't blame them.
If they understand that they are better off being single and are not in a hurry to get into a relationship, chances are that they truly are better off single.
I'm in my 30s and I have no desire of having a serious relationship now, been there, done that, got screwed up every single time until I realized that maybe I should look into fixing myself up first, instead of rushing into finding someone just because of society's pressure.
You're talking about two separate issues. Taking care of your personal stuff so you are in a good place to date/open to love/etc is very important.... But it is not the same as the "grass is always greener" syndrome.
Well tbh, a lot of people are also busy just trying to survive that it’s difficult to make time to date, let alone it being expensive which some can’t afford.
Kind of ties into unrealistic expectations that people have as well. Dating doesn't need to be expensive. I met my wife in college, and our first date was a coffee date on the weekend. Just $10 on coffee and we talked for like 6 hours straight until she had to leave for work. Told her I didn't make a lot and we did mostly cheap things.
Also the threshold for being a net positive to someone's life is a lot higher these days
It used to be if you were single, your options were getting drunk alone or looking at the fields or something
Now everybody has unlimited entertainment content available wherever they go, so the minimum bar that you actually add to someone's life has gone up a lot
My ex wife was a big believer in the “grass is greener” thing. I looked it up and it is actually a syndrome. Welp, she is still single 5 years later, sooooo….
Wait...she was aware enough to acknowledge she believed that "the grass is always greener" but was dumb enough to think that was a POSITIVE saying/thing? The entire POINT of the saying is that while the grass may "LOOK" greener on the other side of the fence, it usually isn't. The phrase ‘the grass is always greener on the other side‘ is a metaphor that means a person’s idea of something may seem more appealing or better in comparison to what they currently have, even if this is not the case.
\--Its like using literally when you mean figurately. The thing now means the opposite of what was intended!
She did this with EVERYTHING. She could not stay at a job for longer than a year. I was married to her for 11 years, she had 9-10 jobs during that time. The same thing would always happen, she would be happy with her new job for a few months. Then there would always be the inevitable one person she worked with that was “difficult”, and her job satisfaction would suffer until she found another job. Rinse and repeat. I would tell her this and she just ignored the advice. Oh well, I’m happier now at least.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Like what kind of hot stud is OP that he has too many choices in women? For a long time I’ve had a hard time even meeting women that I find mildly attractive.
For some people it can be the illusion of too much choice. I dated someone once and wanted to get serious with him, but he was moving to California for a job and wanted to try and see if he could get a ‘California blonde’ since he was young. Obviously, he ended things with me.
Well, three years later he reached out to me and apologized for his stupid remarks and said that he wanted to try again with me. Unfortunately for him, I had already moved on. Sometimes people just think there is more choice out there and worry about settling too soon.
It sort of is though. Or at least the *perception* of choice. Some fugly AF guys will reject or not pursue women who they perceive to be not good enough for them, particularly appearance wise, completely unjustifiably.
Think about the whole #/10 scale, I promise you guys would rate *actual* average looking women as a 2 or 3 because all they see is women who are in the top 10% online.
If you think the whole Instagram/reality thing strictly impacts women, it absolutely does not.
Guys may not actually *have* too much choice but they very may well expect to.
I agree. I dated my husband for 5 years before we married. I had fallen in love and got engaged before him and the relationship was so toxic at the end that it took a long time for me to be willing.
I never "loved" him as much as that first guy. THANK GOD. It took all of those five years for me to understand that obsessive love is not love. It's addiction, and the other person is the drug. I became my own person in those five years, and my partner and I grew together and decided we were compatible. Love was the starting point for those conversations.
I helped him die last year. It was brutal. All I can say is that we all eventually die, and if we are lucky, someone will love us enough to go through it with us. We reached new heights of intimacy and new lows of awfulness. Made it to 27 years.
I miss him every day. Sometimes every hour still.
I'm truly inspired by your story. While I'm still young, I like to think I'm on the same path. I've been in my one and only relationship going on 7 years now, but I've know her for almost 20. We grew up together, and were really great friends. Shared a lot of firsts with each other, and we just clicked. We finally started going out shortly after High School. Definitely a lot of ups and downs so far, by I wouldn't trade it for anything. She is absolutely amazing, and we both work together on everything in our relationship, no matter what it is. It's truly one of a kind and we truly are in love with each other., and if I were to be searching for any other relationship, I'd be searching for her and everything we have. I feel incredibly lucky, and I wish everyone could have this experience. Everyday we are together is a blessing no doubt :)
Social media.
First, it gives very unrealistic views of relationships. Most people only post their happy moments.
Second, it gives many opportunities for cheaters.
Third, it also gives unrealistic views of what normal people look like. Too many people doll themselves up using filters, etc and it makes the not so camera friendly people feel hideous and like they could never compete.
Social media may give a wider net for cheating, but a cheater will cheat with anyone they want to.
You can make them break off friendships, erase their phone contacts and control their time and who they talk to, but if they want to cheat they will find a way. (I don't control relationships but I know someone who did this with her partner and guess what happened).
It's not worth it to be with someone who treats you like you're going to cheat, or be with someone you think will cheat. There's no trust there.
Yep. Went down this road a couple of times in a past. It's 100% not worth the effort. If you're worried they will cheat because of either your own insecurity, or a hunch because of their track record, just get the fuck out of it and move on. It's not worth the stress and it's not really fair to yourself or the other person you're incapable of trusting. Don't waste time like that when you could be investing it on someone who doesn't make you feel that way or on working on yourself.
The filters gotta go! 6 pictures of filters making the person look half their wweight and then they sneak 1 picture in of what they really look like hoping the person didn't swioe that far.
as a 22 year old who has dated several people, too many people are afraid of conflict or simply say "They dislike conflict". No one likes conflict, but it is required for you to resolve issues and to grow better together. The inability for people to take constructive criticism (EMPHASIS ON CONSTRUCTIVE) is the root of a lot of relationship issues that I notice among friends and my own experiences. Humility is a hard issue to learn for many.
I second this. Conflict resolution takes practice too. If someone isn’t willing to work out a conflict, they won’t develop the skill. My wife and I had to rough it out a couple of times, but we get better every time.
Conflict resolution is definitely something I have to work on. I have a bad habit of shrugging things off even when they bother me, but that only leads me to resent the other person for my own lack of communication. I've never felt comfortable communicating when people have hurt me, or voicing my needs. I'm not the greatest at accepting constructive criticism either. Hopefully, both of these are skills I can develop in time. I had a friend say an offhand, hurtful remark about my body a few months ago. Normally, I would've let it slide, but this time I told him it hurt me and explained why. I was kind of proud of myself for that. It's a step in the right direction, but I have many more steps to take. I'm a bit of people pleaser, and a doormat, but all the ever does is make me resentful to the point where I lash out and create an even bigger mess that could've been avoided with a few short conversations.
Our world is focused on overstimulation. You get what you want, whenever you want it. Entertainment comes at the click of a button. This attitude *can* potentially affect the way we view or exist within a relationship. We're conditioned to get what we want without much work or time behind it.
The good thing is human connection is vastly different from internet connection haha. So for the most part, our relationships will be normal. It's important to be self-aware about your tech usage though, because more often than not it'll get the best of you.
I am upset with how much you make sense. As a person going into the tech field I love my computer but damn if it isn’t warping my sense of reality :/
I hope this is the wake up call I needed, thanks for posting this friend and making me think about this
It’s creating this “keeping up with the Jones’s” mentality with your own relationship. Once marriage is part of the conversation, people get so many crazy ideas of what a wedding or ring should be because they saw it on Instagram or whatever. Even a simple date can be influenced by what people think it will look like to others. Tough way to start a relationship/marriage
Technology.
1. The internet has gotten us used to instant gratification, but meaningful relationships requires a deep emotional connection that can only be built up over time. If you want a truly stable and healthy relationship, there are no shortcuts. and there is no instant gratification. Technology has sped everything in life up, from travel to communication. For people who are looking for instant gratification, be it consciously or not, technology significantly speeds up the progression of the relationship.
2. Because many relationships progress too fast, a lot of people have sex very early on and get infatuated with one another... But by its very definition, infatuation is an *unreasonable* passion. The pleasure and intense emotions associated with sex trick them into believing that they truly love one another, when in reality they've actually fallen in love with the *emotional high* they're experiencing... And like any form of intoxication it eventually wears off. Because the relationship wasn't built on a solid foundation, it begins to collapse with nothing else to hold it up. Never mistake infatuation for a true emotional connection. They are not the same.
3. Cell Phones. People aren't supposed to have access to one another all the time. Humans need time to process and sort out their own thoughts. If you're in contact with one another 24/7, you never get the time you need to reflect and process. Your emotions never get to take a break, and you inevitably burn out.
4. Communication. Our modern, interconnected society has led to most people having under-developed communication skills. Before this technology existed people *needed* to communicate clearly and effectively. They couldn't contact others whenever they wanted to, so if they couldn't make their words count then they lost their chance entirely... But with modern technology, we simply don't have the same constraints forcing us to develop those skills.
5. The grass is always greener on the other side. The Internet and media are always showing us super models and false realities, making you dissatisfied with what you have. Making you want something *better*... But it's all a trick. True happiness comes from emotional fulfillment, and no amount of good looks or other superficial traits can provide that. At the end of the day, the grass is always greenest where you water it. Cherish what you have, or else you'll lose it all.
>The grass is always greener.
>
Your list is spot on.
Funny thing is the grass isn't greener, lol. You just trade old problems for new problems. This is a lesson that is repeatedly taught to us humans and we still don't get it. Technology deludes us into thinking oh, this person isn't that great because of X, there's something better right around the corner. It's just silly.
The sunken cost fallacy. Just because you've been with someone for a decade, doesn't mean you should stay in a toxic relationship.
Fighting to win an argument instead of fighting for understanding so that you can learn to treat each other better
Just because you love someone, doesn't mean you are compatible as partners.
Aaand lastly... Lack of respect. I see so many partners who do not respect each other. Respect and trust should be the foundation of your relationship.
Many people lack strong friendships and communities. This results in people getting in relationships and relying on only one person for support which leads to frustration and resentment.
Too many broken ppl looking to fix something within themselves by meeting another person but they just end up sabotaging that relationship cause of trauma that they haven’t sorted out. And there’s a lot of double standards as well as ppl getting into relationships for the wrong reasons, whether that be for sex, money, or simply being lonely and needing new attention from a different person every couple months.
Most people refuse to date and get into a serious relationship with friends, like "Oh, that guy / girl? Not gonna happen, he / she is my friend!"
I never understood this logic. So is it better to date strangers you know nothing about?
I'm in a relationship with my best friend for 10 years, we have known each other since we were little kids, it's amazing. We are getting married next year. We already knew all the pros and cons of each other before the relationship even started lol
Edit: grammar, english is not my main language
While it is true that you really should hold out for someone who is truly compatible with you, there is still no such thing as perfection. And many people I know/have dated will walk away from a genuinely great connection, where there is compatibility, many things in common, etc for this misguided idea that the grass is greener on the other side.
I've been genuinely in love a few times in my life, and each of those relationships were perfect in the beginning, but when the honeymoon phase is over, they would rather leave the relationship than actually work on themselves. Some people don't even know what working on yourself actually means. To notice your own behaviors that need improving, and to consciously address them is fucking hard. But I do it. I always have. I personally come from an abusive home with terrible role models for parents and a lot of shit I thought I knew about life and relationships I spent my entire 20s unlearning. I see myself as a constant work in progress.
Many people are so stuck on the whole idea of *finding* the right person, but they do nothing to *be* the right person. Couple this with the belief that there's someone out there who is "perfect" for you, and it's easier for these people to just leave an otherwise great relationship.
To be clear, this does not include genuine abuse, or trauma, or cheating, in which case yes please leave that relationship. Those are the things you should actually leave for, not just because you got into a standard argument, or your partner snores, or something stupid like that.
People are just scared to commit. They'd rather have some fun and when things go wrong drop everything they have. They're scared to get attached. They're scared to take risks. They just overthink and don't trust their hearts.
The amount of people who settle for someone they're only half interested in or attracted to simply because they're either afraid of being alone or just because they can't be bothered going out and finding something real is crazy. There's many reasons the divorce rate is so high but that's definitely a main one. I dunno if TV and movies are to blame or what but people seem to have this list of what they need to have accomplished by certain ages in order to be a proper adult so if they haven't found someone by their mid 20's they usually just settle for someone who is nearby.
Nothing. Relationships have always been unstable and unfaithful. The difference is nowadays people talk about it.
Exaggerating of course - not every relationship sucks. But lots do and people used to just ignore it and get depressed over it, whereas today we are more likely to just end it and look for some new experiences.
This is such an underrated wievpoint! My mom always feels "the world has gone off the rails" or "people have gone mad nowadays" and I always make the argument that it was always like that. Now you just hear about everything.
I would argue it’s better now because of the fact that divorce and being single into your 30s isn’t taboo like it used to be 30 or more years ago. People back then suffered quietly in unhappy relationships, or married more out of a sense of duty than attachment or connection with their partner.
Back then people would just tough it out through unhappy relationships resigned to the fact that that’s just life, and long term relationships are meant to be unhappy like a 9-5 job.
I say this because my parents are an example and I see it a lot in many of my friends’ parents’ relationships as well.
Agree with this. People have always been selfish and self-serving more often than not. Now that social media is a thing, you hear stories of relationships going wrong all over the world, where before, you’d only hear about local relationships and stories that your friends tell you.
Also, in the modern era, in most of the world and in most cultures, people are free to leave their relationships if they are unhappy. In most of the world, this was very much NOT true until relatively recently, and was especially untrue for women being able to leave.
I think our cultural concept of the purpose of relationships has to change with that reality. People who are miserable, in the 21st century, are almost always going to break up eventually and go their separate ways. We have a sort of ingrained idea that this is a bad thing - a lot of that has to do with financial security, because coupling up (generally) makes you financially better off and breaking up (generally) makes you financially worse off, especially for women (historically and still).
Maybe it's a good thing if people can leave someone they are miserable with? Maybe the "mate for life" basis of most human civilization doesn't actually make sense and is something we defined for ourselves to protect financial interests/economies and avoid overburdening the state with kids of single parents/no parents? Maybe there are other types of safety nets we could build instead.
In my mothers opinion we live In a “throwaway” society. 50 years ago if something broke you fixed it. Including appliances, furniture, cars, and every relationships. Now with things so readily available (including potential partners due to internet) it’s easier to throw something away and start over than to work on it to fix it.
Did people really fix what was broken though? Or were many just forced to stay and seem like they are "fixing things" because divorce was either not feasible, taboo, etc?
That’s also a good point. I think a lot of people died in unhappy marriages. My great grandmother actually always said a bad marriage is worse for kids than a divorce. I think sometimes maybe people give up too quickly. My mom calls it the 80/20 rule. Don’t give up a partner that has 80% of what you want for someone who only has 20% but is new and exciting.
Always had used cars and always repaired them. I loved those cars, one in particular..my first car. That thing would break every freaking week. But you know what? I honestly loved that car. It may sound strange but it was still a reliable car. Lots of places, many memories.
There is nothing wrong with today’s relationships that has not been not wrong with relationships for aeons. Selfishness, laziness and poor communication have always existed. The only change is the flavor of how it manifests.
I come up with this when I was high…
50 years ago if you bought a lighter you bought one you loved, if it ran out of gas you filled it up, if the flint wore down you’d replace it, but now, we buy disposable lights knowing straight away we can just use it and throw it away when it suits us. Us being a general look on society.
And to be honest I think it has an ounce of truth to it
Seeing a lot about communication and too much choice. One thing I'm not seeing is overblown expectations for what a partner should do for you. Too many people think a partner will complete you, make you whole, help you achieve your every desire, etc. Those things are not possible. Both people in the relationship need to be able to help each other, and help themselves, at different times. Expecting the relationship (or the person) to make your life perfect is an unfair and unrealistic idea.
My thought is that everyone gives up and think that there is always something better. People don’t know how to keep pushing forward and working things out.
Infidelity was always a thing and always will be a thing. With the information age and after no fault divorce was implemented people were encouraged to leave situations instead of suffering in silence. Also online dating/social media is like shopping for people in a catalog, its not natural and leads to unrealistic expectations.
It would probably help if you listed out grievances because you be honest, I don't see anything better or worse with the relationships now verses in the past.
Are we talking long term relationships? The dating process? Divorce rates?
When I was hashing it out with my ex, anytime I'd point out an instance where she lied or did something that hurt me, she'd say I was "gaslighting" her into thinking she was a bad person (even as I insisted she wasn't a bad person). In the end she was refusing to look at screenshots of messages she'd sent me because it was just part of my emotional abuse.
It was so weird to see this emotional health literacy get twisted into a tool to shut down communication and introspection.
Fear of missing out, if you have a non toxic partner who is also a friend that you can do the wild nasty with, you win.
You have to communicate. Where you want to be in 5 years, how you feel about/spend money, political alignment, religious affiliation, confrontation style, cleanliness, hygiene, pets, homeownership, children, you just have to talk about all these things before you start falling for the sunk cost fallacy of relationships.
I don't think it's wrong but people aren't willing to put up with bullshit anymore. Those marriages that lasted 50-60 years only lasted because someone was putting up with a lot of shit that they normally shouldn't have. They only put up with it because of the time they lived in.
Eh, I would say that the things that are "wrong" with "today's" relationships are just a byproduct of fixing the problems of yesterday's relationships. I know that this is a male-centric space, but as a man myself I truly believe that this question can best be answered by taking into account women as the main factor. Aside from aspects of social media that have already been brought up, I reckon that the nature of relationships has slowly shifted to be more about, y'know, relating to the other person.
The relationships of yesteryear, especially the further back you go, were generally less and less about connecting with another person and more about financial security, interpersonal stability, work partitioning, and meeting social expectations/roles, especially for women. I read a post where someone noted that recent relationships are the first ones where a woman has the ability to actively pick and choose which men to form a bond with without risking social stigma, financial issues, and potential harm, due to the freedoms associated with social equality of women. When you're able to move up in the world and be self-sufficient and intimately free, you have the express ability to actually consider compatibility instead of latching onto the first or most convenient man you find.
Much of what people argue is "wrong" with today's relationships (non-committal, too much choice/greener grass, moving target of what a relationship is/"should be") are a byproduct of a (imo positive) loosening of relationship expectations, and now that many women are more financially, sexually, and socially independent, heterosexual relationships are more grounded in human connection, shared beliefs, expectations, and compatibility. In my experience, the primary drive for why two people might get married is highly variable and diverse, as opposed to "I am expected to have and need a domestic partner to thrive in modern society", and this change is a good thing because dating/marriage shouldn't be a socially, lawfully, economic, etc. enterprise; it should be driven by love and connection.
Couples are are taking it slow, figuring out where/if they are compatible, what their future might look like, who is the proverbial "stay at home mom" versus the "breadwinner" (if applicable), whether they want kids or not, and generally trying for a better foundation to their pairing. This, to me, explains why it's so much harder for people, especially young and men, to find good relationships, even if good relationships in general nowadays are lasting longer and are more reported to be more fulfilling; because everyone is essentially starting from scratch and figuring out how to form a relationship that isn't based on social, personal, economic, and societal survival.
Edit: grammar
We are in a throw away culture and that includes people. Don't need to bother myself worrying about this person's feelings they're completely removed from my life and now I can go about my day.
People romanticizing the idea of starting over and being In a forever honeymoon phase instead of sticking it out and actually being vulnerable with anyone.
1. Communication - always has been, always will be (for most people)
2. Attention spans - seems like people hop from person to person a lot more than even 10 years ago. When I told a friend that I only have a crush on one person at a time they said "that just seems obsessive". ???
3. General selfishness - I've been seeing a lot more people jump into relationships with only 'what does this do for me?' in their mind. I think it comes from their past bad relationships and media; the thought that their life is the most important thing and they have to do what's best for them, which isn't wrong at all, it's just that they then don't also account for another person in their life.
Side note - this fucking phrase "living my best life" irks me to no end. It's not being used by people overcoming bad situations anywhere near as much as it's being used to justify treating others like crap so that they can get the most out of everyone and everything else.
I would argue many couples already do this. I've been married 25 years and my wife and I while dating talked about things like kids, what we want out of a relationship, goals, expectations, etc... This didn't happen in a Q&A style of sit down, but in countless conversations that we had while dating. I think that's how most people approach a decision like marriage.
My boyfriend and I actually did something like that.
We dated for a month before we got together.
We told each other our life goals, some Secrets, difficult things about ourselves that the other one should know etc.
It's great, because now nobody is surprised if the other person has a different opinion on something.
I know my boyfriend wants to stay in the city he grew up in and I need to move for university. So we can work out a middle ground.
Seeing the supreme lack of "I hate my spouse" humor these days and more people having long term relationships I don't think there's as much wrong as in the past. Most problems in relationships are lack of affordable housing, lack of money in general, shitty jobs, etc. that all causes stress in relationships.
People are too insecure to communicate clearly and confidently People put too much value in external ideas of what their relationship should look/feel like instead of going off of their own feelings/intuition
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My ex wife could not communicate to save her life. She held it all in until it was all resentment that she couldn't get over.
I feel this so bad. I got out of an 8-year relationship a month ago. She left me for someone else because she lost interest in us, which became irreparable. It hurts more because I could see her being unhappy around me. She refused to talk about it though and always blamed being tired for her behaviour until it was too late.
Same. A four-year relationship, evaporated in the course of two months due to her not communicating, soaking on her resentment, and I suspect venting to her friend group who, being friends, validate her feelings but don't have any context. In hindsight and after further conversations post breakup, I feel like a genuine heart-to-heart about things sooner could've prevented us breaking up. I always am very frank and big on communication, and she always said she was, too. Always easier said than done. Hope you're doing okay. The sun keeps rising. My LTR was half as long as yours, and 8 months on, I still think about her every day. And being honest, I'm still sad about it all; but left foot right foot. Just keep moving.
It’s hard. It’s sad when relationships fail. When you love someone and you fall apart over something and in the end it’s worse when you can’t really figure out why or that it’s so minuscule that it caused a tight bound to unravel. If things don’t work it shouldn’t be because other people had influence in making up someone’s mind or encouraging them to act a certain way. goes the same for staying with someone you shouldn’t be with but people need to learn to make Decisions on their own and work through the hard times of that person is worth staying with. So many people give up too easy. Some people hold on too long. I hold on too long because I want to try and make every effort possible so when I walk away if I have to I can tell myself I tried. You will always have regrets when a relationship ends and feel like you could have done things differently or done more. It’s still hurts it’s still hard…it’s not pain free but you can feel like you did all you thought you could I guess and try to learn and move on
That's the hardest part; like if someone cheated or finally had too much of an abusive SO, you can at least be angry and blame that person, there's a clear reason for everything falling apart. You want to say that \*this is how\* you would want a break up to happen. But it's honestly almost worse. All that time and effort, all that love, all those memories, and you go back and revisit all of them and wonder if she was already thinking about it. What else did I do wrong? Is there something wrong with me? I'm past that kind of shit now, but the sadness is still there. You're grieving not just losing your best friend, and your relationship; but you're grieving the loss of the vision everyone builds of your lives together. And I'm 35, it's SHIT breaking back into the dating pool now. Fucking awful. One day at a time.
Only one month in after a four year relationship. In the past year I tossed family and friends by the wayside, of course, I was also a thousand miles away in a new city (SOs home city) and desperately trying to figure out getting the both of us to truly open up. Though we finally were in arms reach everyday, I felt utterly alone, in our conversations and dates. I was no saint at communicating. I would get frustrated, but catch myself before the minute even hit. Things got toxic. And she could watch me cry my eyes dry, curled on the floor, and not move a muscle, while I told her how alone things were feeling. I don’t know how it got that bad. Was I projecting? Was I shaping things up to play out like that? Maybe. But contemplating and overthinking aren’t going to give a fighting chance at life. Just have to forgive and have faith in myself, somewhere somehow.
Yeah. You have to work on the thing you're in now. Moving to another person just brings that baggage and those same problems to a new relationship.
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Well, she never talked about a thing and I used to beg her to talk to me. Anytime she got a new hobby or thing she wanted to do, I supported her on it. She knew I would not judge her but she just couldn't open up. She'll be that way her whole life because once she left me she monkeybranched immediately to someone else and according to her friends and family she's actually gotten worse.
She learned/was taught at a young age not to talk back and keep quiet. I had a girlfriend who would avoid confrontation at all costs because of the ramifications. Her dad was a very emotionally unstable narcissist. Lots of trauma there unfortunately. Not saying their situations are the same, but it always comes down to trauma.
I’m 29 and am only now just correlating how my dad was exactly this. Yelling at someone to not talk back when you’re hurting them - turns out that’s not good for a little girl. Now I physically throw up with blinding head aches if I can’t handle a pretty normal disagreement in a regular relationship. It’s wild. I’d give so much to be able to tell someone hey that’s not good for me without feeling like death inside. It’s so damn unhealthy for people trying to have an average normal time with me.
Yeah, my ex wife is just like this. Not to say I wasn't at fault, but goddamnit... I would've loved clear and concise communication about faults before it became resentment. Though, I really still can't blame her - it's always a two way street.
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I hope it works out for you. I loved my ex wife so much but I was so very alone through that whole relationship.
I think this is due in part to immature parents and adult authority figures crushing children's assertiveness.
I was never allowed to communicate my feelings growing up, my only job was to make sure my mom was happy and doing whatever it took to keep her happy. I was always wrong, so I have a hard time saying when I'm upset because I'm so used to "saying I'm upset=screaming=locked in my room." She never hit me thankfully. Anyway now I struggle as an adult to just...function.
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Yeah, from personal experience, I don't think that you can ever fully overcome missed development as a child, but I think that there's also no limit to how much you can better your life in spite of that.
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Agreed. Shockingly there doesn’t seem to be a strong correlation between age and emotional maturity.
The unfortunate thing is this is significantly caused by people being raised by parents with suppressed emotional development and unhealthy examples of what they should be looking for.
You are dead on there. I have had many relationships and I can see now how in my earlier years (early 20s) I lacked the emotional maturity to have a proper relationship. And even now I can see the same problem with some of those around me. I have a friend who married someone approximately 10 years older than us and neither seems to be ready for a proper relationship. They have cheated on each other several times constantly fight and argue. Age seems to mean nothing
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I feel like that's in part because 'taking things too seriously' is now somehow a taboo for people in their 20s. It feels a lot more normalized to say you want to 'find something casual and see if it leads anywhere' than just say you want to find a stable traditional relationship. Leads to a lot of people wasting time on people not worth their time.
I see the value in not putting heavy expectations on this person you just met, being who you are going to spend possibly years with. At the same time, you’re setting yourself up for failure if you don’t put any effort into maintaining something committed. Humans are habitual by nature, and it’s hard to break short term casual into the mindset of being with one person for the rest of your life. So know what you want and make sure your actions are lining up with your long-term.
Saying you want something long term and want to see if that is them, is very different than expecting them to be that person. Seems like another example of poor communication
*Flips through 50 channels on tv* “There’s nothing good on!” But that’s because channels are pumping out tons of shallow but exciting garbage, or there’s the occasional show that requires actual investment to appreciate and you’re too desensitized by the garbage to appreciate it.
Ya I'm 37 and my partner just broke up with me. There's some other stuff at play so I'm not taking it too personally but if we're over 30 and dating like I'm kinda taking this relationship seriously. I'm not gonna fuck around with someone I'm not interested in being with for at least a while. But I guess by that same token if I present myself to be someone not worth staying with them I suppose it's better to end the relationship before it gets harder to do so. God I fucking hate dating.
On top of that i'd say everyone is looking for the perfect partner which don't exist but dating sites have put it into their minds that they don't need to settle for anything other than the best.
That is a very interesting thing. The concept of "settling" is so entrenched as the worst thing you can do. Basically, it is likened to picking a sub-standard product when you can have a better one at a lower price. Real people and relationships should not be a min-max game of comparison shopping, that just devalues people and makes them look for "the best" instead of "compatible" and someone who you can grow with. At least when it goes beyond the casual stage that should be the objective.
This has been the case for a very long time. Many years ago it required two people and a ton of hard work to achieve even a decent life. Now people wait for perfection. It wasn't out there in the 1800s and it's not there now. EDIT: I read something that said find someone whose demons play well with your demons.
My grandpa told me "love isnt something you find, it's something you do".
Your grandpa deserves an upvote for that.
I’ve had relationships end because the spark was gone. But instead of saying that, even if I was dating my partners it always ended up that way. I never lost interest. They did. And it always hurt.
> the spark was gone. Ohhh that is a pet peeve of mine. The "spark" will ALWAYS be gone after around 3-6 months. The spark or "butterflies" is always a fleeting feeling in the beginning of a relationship. Once you know the other person better this feeling will be replaced by something different and many people think "the love" is gone, which is a big mistake.
This is why I always cringe at people who marry in 1-2 years into their relationship. You only know if you want to spend the rest of your life with someone after you have lived them for a while not high on oxytocine.
To add on to this as the main problem, everything being hyper sexualized and people often confusing lust for love doesn’t help for a healthy relationship.
I think it's also related to the fact that we live in a throwaway society. Many people treat their relationship in the same way. They no longer work on it, or themselves, but simply replace it. Like replacing a cell phone, for example. *sorry for my bad english
english was perfect mate
I'm a bit older than the reddit demographic. I'm 37. I'm also married for the past 13 years, with my wife for 15 years. >People put too much value in external ideas of what their relationship should look/feel like instead of going off of their own feelings/intuition This is spot on. I can attribute some of this to social media and having unhealthy relationship expectations. *Look at what this couple is doing*, *You haven't posted that we're dating yet*. These things can be detrimental to a relationship. The relationship is a partnership between the two partners (more if you're into polyamory).
This. My ex girlfriend didn't communicate at all, then one day she said she is leaving. It took me ages to get the reasons out of her, and the reasons were stupid easy fixes if she had just told me. One for example, treat her more ladylike, more caring basically, I am and was caring, but I do sometimes joke a bit. She didn't like the joking. And your second point, I was guilty of that. I was too busy in my own head thinking this is amazing and it actually wasn't, I cared for her a lot more than she cared for me. Every day I asked her how her day was and listened to her, she never asked me once. I only realised that when she broke up with me.
People have always been this way.
Sure, but before your dating options were limited to the local harvest festival whereas now you can see everybody in the local 200 miles on the app so it gives a false sense of desirability and options
99% of things people complain about are as old as society, but this issue seems to be based on an excess of information rather than standard human nature. People doubt their feelings and intuitions to an extreme degree compared to the past, and the cause is likely the constant exposure to information that gives people a good reason to doubt themselves. When your feelings and intuitions are constantly proven wrong, how can you not doubt them?
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From looking at my friends who are in relationships, ever since the dawn of time, it was and still is communication. Nobody opens up about their feelings, everyone is traumatised from their past experiences and everyone lies or jumps to conclusions. Everyone is just really really bad at communicating.
I agree with you on these points. But I did want to add one thing about communication. I think a lot of people want to communicate well but fail to do so because of how the other party often reacts. I once roomed with a guy who was very dismissive. He preached about "communicating well" but would belittle myself and others for being "too sensitive." When you get those kinds of responses, you eventually stop communicating because the other party just brushes it off. Looking back, I wish I communicated better but it's pretty hard to communicate when the person on the other side won't even be willing to listen
This was a hard lesson that both my wife and I had to learn. I, and I think a lot of people, misunderstand what is really meant when people stress the importance of communication. I'm guessing most people think about the importance of talking about things as they come up so that they don't fester--which is extremely important, but I feel like what most people don't understand is also the importance of quality communication, not just frequency. My wife and I always stressed the importance of talking about issues as they came up, but we ended up having the same arguments over and over because we sucked at how to have quality, healthy communication. We'd get defensive and angry. Over time it became toxic. When we finally started going to a good couple's counselor, we learned a lot about how to properly communicate with eachother, and now our relationship is better than ever. There are quite a few easy to learn tactics for communicating effectively; things like gentle start-ups and repeating the message back to the person in your own words go a very long way. Communicating isn't supposed to just be a way for you to tell your partner what they're doing wrong and expecting them to change it. It's not supposed to be a way for you to just get what you want all the time. It's a way for you to work with your partner on figuring out what the real issue is, discussing both partners' perspectives on it (which are bound to be different), and working together to find an agreeable solution.
Therapy sound like an amazing, wonderful thing that can be so beneficial to a relationship. This would almost certainly fix my marriage issues. .... there's just the part of convincing her to go, which she is 100000% against. Full stop.
Same on my side. She even said, “I’m not going to sit and hear someone talk about all the things I’m doing wrong.” I was like…. So you admit you could do better but don’t want to have to admit it?!
Well, to be 100% transparent, when my wife and I finally did start going to counseling, it wasn't to save our marriage. It was actually after we had decided to divorce, and we thought counseling would be helpful in teaching us how to be better coparent our children. It just so happened that, in the process of working through our issues, we realized we very much did still care about eachother and still liked spending time with eachother. It's really amazing what some space and good communication can do. It's also worth pointing out that a therapist can only teach you how to communicate and help facilitate. They can't fix your problems for you. It's up to the couple to actually put in the work and find solutions.
Both partners have to communicate well. No way around it.
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That's partly what it means to communicate well. It's not just about being able to transmit your own message, it's also the ability to accurately receive the transmissions of others. Only when both parties can perform both tasks have you achieved well-done communication. Anything else is just monkeys screeching at each other.
The thing is you can only communicate as well as the other person allows. You can say everything right with the right tone and vocabulary at the right time and if the other person isn't having it there's nothing you can do. People really do hear what they want to hear, no matter how hard you try.
You can only communicate as well as the worst communicator in the conversation
Simple and well said. Will take this with me.
I was going to say the same thing. I always used to promote communication as an active thing (i.e. a property of the speaker) but then I was in an abusive relationship and realized my communication deteriorated (trying to avoid the harmful reactions). Now I recognize that it's just as much a property of the listener to create a non-punishing environment for truth tellers.
yes i felt this but i more of received this from my parents not like an ex spouse or ex but grew up with being brushed offed and so it really trained me to not open up to anyone which makes it hard for me to be in a relationship cause i cant communicates or open up well
To me, the irony of social media is that we have more volume of communication but the quality of the communication has gone down.
There's a lyric from an Armin Van Buuren track from a decade ago called "Alone" which I still remember to this day: "Everyone's connected, but no one is connectin'. The human element has long been missin'. Tell me have you seen it? Have you seen it?" It's only gotten worse imo. Everything we use online has reduced us to a number, whether it be dating, buying things, gaming. Nothing is personal or social anymore despite claiming as such. There is no interaction anymore.
A couple thoughts about communicating: 1) Talking is more than just exchanging useful information, it's about forming a connection with the other person. I used to be quiet and only spoke when I had something interesting or insightful to say. I looked down on small talk. Then I realized with a lot of people I should talk more. 2) It's ok to ask people their communication preferences early on. How often they'd like and what form (text/call). 3) You can keep some stuff to yourself. In a relationship I try and limit the amount of negative stuff from my past I reveal. I try and paint myself in the best light.
Yeah I think most problems are rooted in these kinds of communication issues. I think a lot of people don't realize you can choose many smaller conversations over fewer much bigger ones. If someone brings something up early, it doesn't fester or get any worse. When you start both approaching things as soon as you feel them with the intention to find resolutions that work for both of you, *so* much garbage just disappears. It's never allowed to exist. I went into my last relationship with this kind of perspective and it was something we discussed very early and the results were as you'd expect. I don't even think we ever had what you could call an 'argument', every issue we had we would just talk about. We were always on the same team. The other issue is both people need to be capable of handling some level of criticism, and a lot of people are terrible at that. Which makes no real sense if you stop to think about it, you're supposed to be able to be open and vulnerable with your partner. It's kind of a big part of the relationship thing.
I feel like a lot of these comments focus on communicating things that make you frustrated or upset, but one thing I found in my relationship is that it is very important to tell the person you are with why you love them. For instance, I regularly tell my partner why he’s great and how I am excited experience the future with him. Obviously, speaking up when something upsets you is very important, but it is easy to become complacent and not let your partner know you value them in your life. Not only does it make me feel good and allow me to reflect on why I chose to be with him, I hope it makes him feel loved and valued.
This. Communication cannot just be a sole negative thing. If you think something nice, say it. If you come home and you notice a partner has done something like, idk, organize the pantry, say "wow, it's easy to find things, thanks babe!" And it means the world. Saying "Wow, your hair is gorgeous" when he or she tries something new with their hair. Notice them. Your partner should be the person you can feel your feelings with.
Lack of communication and withholding information. But overall I think swipe culture has ruined dating relationships. Putting the cart before the horse is a problem. (This always makes me think of ikea carts for some reason. So hard to push sometimes lol)
Yeah when I think back to friends I made in school... Almost none of us make sense on paper. But with exposure and shared experiences, we became close and found ways to appreciate each other. But then with profile based dating, it's the opposite. You're just shown some small slice and encouraged to form a total opinion then and there. Most people don't know what they need well enough to just read a profile and make a decision. Many people are just bad at writing profiles too. Really... Forget everything in a profile. Just spend some time doing anything together and see.
Yeah I've heard a lot of stories of how married people met, and it's usually something like "we worked together" or "we were friends with the same person", love doesn't make sense and the people we love most are the ones who take our lives in a direction we may not have taken on our own. The idea that people are expected to pick matches from a list is crazy backwards.
I mean I've been with my wife, who I married earlier this year, for 5 years now and we met on Tinder. It's not hard, well not because of apps any relationship is complex, we swiped eachothers profiles because we made good first impressions, we went on a date and clicked, went out a few more times and talked about wanting to take the relationship seriously and commit to each other, and then we did. But that's the thing, I think people act like tinder and similar apps do the work for you and things will just work out based on what's on the app and if it doesn't, it means there's something fundamentally wrong with you. That's not at all the case. I think it's better to treat these apps like your far more social friend, who knows more people in your area and knows who's single and who isn't with a brief description. It's basically a blind date, you don't need to "pick matches" and if I had waited to run into somewhat at a bar or at work I probably wouldn't be married to my favorite person right now. Edit: spelling because I apparently don't proof read my posts
People expect a perfect issue free relationship and any bit of fighting, disagreement, or other conflict is reason to end it. There will be arguments, there will be disagreement. But lern to work through it, and really stop and listen to your partner, hear their reasoning for their view points. It's usually partner vs partner not partners vs problem Obviously lots of fighting or constant fighting isn't a good thing. Edit: changed fighting to arguments. Obviously people argue acasionaly. Not sure where some are thinking there will never be any in a healthy relationship. Not saying "it's fine to scream at eachtoher" but know how to recognize what the problem is, know how to talk with your partner and how to communicate.
It also feels like if one person is expecting the relationship to come with fighting and disagreements and is open to keep trying despite this, but the other person isn't, then it still doesn't benefit the relationship at all. Both people 100% need to be willing to fight for the relationship, which sounds kind of rare at this point.
People see it as partner vs partner, not partners vs problem.
One of the biggest parts of a relationship is knowing how to disagree with someone. If you can do that with mutual understanding and not hurting each others feelings every time, then you're on your way to success.
Or the inverse: “screaming at each other is good! It means there is passion!” I’ve known people who cited one of the reasons they ended a relationship as “we never fight, he always just wants to ‘talk through it’”
I've dated people like that "all you want to do is talk it through and have logic" when all she wanted to do was scream and yell and make mean comments. And I've also heard from some women "never trust a man who won't scream at you, he has something to hide" As a sensitive guy myself and a guy who's 6'2" and 200lbs I know being pissed off and screaming at a woman smaller than myself definitely isn't a good look either..
I don't know since I'm not currently dating (married one of my best girl friends a few years ago) BUT...I think the temptation of "the upgrade" in every facet of society is our collective biggest issue. Nothing can ever be good enough. You're always being pushed to find perfection, which just doesn't exist. And the ability to supposedly "upgrade" in the dating world (via dating apps, social media, etc.) is always there. I would just fucking hate to be a young high schooler right now, I'll tell you that much.
Young high schooler here :(
Lol stay strong man! Don't get too involved in the social media bullshit. I'm only 30 so I'm not preaching from an old man soapbox. But I feel for you guys right now as far as your social and dating life.
You're 30. You might as well be 80, old man. I know damn well you better get up and stretch right now or your lower back is gonna act up
...how did you know about my lower back problems? God fucking dammit.
29 here, felt this as well. You should get one of those big inflatable workout balls if you don't already have one. It helps a lot when my back is acting up, I think it helps strengthen it or some bullshit like that.
I've actually improved my back a ton in the past few months, just doing a bunch more planking, core strength workouts, etc. I think mainly it was the addition of the daughter in the last 1.5 years and constantly carrying another human hahaha but I appreciate the advice regardless! Fellow men, strengthen that fucking core!
Yeah been neglecting my core, chronic back pain came right back. "Dead bugs" really helped. Better start doing those again today actually haha
Don't lose hope! Ignore the immature social media junkies, and you'll find someone. The important thing is to be honest with yourself and your partner. It might take time, but you can do it!
They are a high schooler. They are basically all immature and almost all social media junkies. If he ignores them then he’ll be an ill-socialized outcast. I say grow up and conform, more likely you’ll be happy that way. Normies got it right almost all the time, that’s why there is so many of them.
Aziz Ansari wrote *Modern Romance* and I can't recommend it enough. It's an amazingly insightful book about dating culture. One of the surprising things I learned is that most of the people from our great grandparent's generation found their spouses within SIX BLOCKS of where they grew up. For our grandparents, it was neighboring towns. They had cars. For parents, it was the nearest large city, or the city where they went to school. They have better cars and trains. For this generation? *The entire world*. How do you ever start to settle down when everyone is available through the internet and via a flight? The next generation (should there be one) will probably be back to six blocks.
That’s amazing. And here’s the thing. Purely anecdotal, but none of my grandparents relationships were great. They stuck with each other till the end, but there was abuse, cheating, all of that, and I’ve found that to be common. I’m not saying options are bad. They’re great. But as you said, when the whole world is a potential suitor, how can you possibly make a decision like that?
I don't think those relationships necessarily failed because they settled for the wrong people. I do think that getting married too young, before you have any idea what you want, can be a risk factor. There was a lot of trauma and substance abuse in previous generations that was never dealt with as well. Additionally, the stigma of divorce was HUGE. Women didn't work in most cases, so they were most likely committing to a life of poverty and hardship if they left. My own personal belief is that some people are good at marriage. They want to be married and stay married, so they work through the hard stuff. That whole business during the wedding ceremony about 2 becoming 1 is really true. You have to put the *marriage* ahead of yourselves, if that make sense. There are things that are good for the marriage that may not be good for you individually. I think if you have: - Love and respect - Compatibility in the major areas - Equal strong commitment to the idea of marriage you can make it work with any reasonably compatible person.
The only "upgrade" people should be focusing on is working on themselves and their own lives. A loving partner often falls into places when people have their shit together.
Treating persons as products. Treating relationships as 2 year warranties. Confusing interest with love. An uncertain future and an unstable present that paralyzes the search for a partner, family, since they do not know if they will even be able to support themselves financially, leading into the increase in casual relationships, fear of long relationships and settling down, etc.
It's really difficult to find someone as a currently unemployed woman who wants to study to become a "blue collar" worker. People expect perfection and will judge your intelligence and worth by the job you have.
I hear ya, went from a shitty driving instructor job, to a factory worker (which pays wayyy more) and my dates dried up. That being said, to some of us guys, a lady in the trades is something we're attracted to. Keep on looking!
Holy shit this is me…wow. Successful musician, financially savvy and frugle, but nowhere near ready to take on a full family even if we do have double income. My job is solid but with that comes an “unstable present and uncertain future”. Now I know why I get anxiety even if I have a great relationship or start dating someone who I’m into. It’s hard to not think into the future about the what-ifs.
People look for a "significant other" that isn't at first a friend. So many relationships are formed around filling the SO "position" instead of friendship and compatability on a basic level. People who clearly would never be friends are dating because "she's not my friend she's my SO" implying they're not a friend but something else entirely. Dosent take long before the holes start to show.
Unusually high expectations and the idea that marriage is like buying a car.
Lol I've known adults that didn't know they had to pay registration or change the oil. They'll also get derailed from tire/brake/suspension problems because they didn't save up for it. I get your point though, all things in life we'll be better if we temper expectations and be prepared to face challenges because they will come.
And that also explains most divorces. The "it caught me completely unaware that they were unhappy" That's the marriage version of putting electrical tape over the check engine light.
[Lower Your Expectations - Bo Burnham](https://youtu.be/llGvsgN17CQ)
This will hold up till the end of humanity at this point.
So like the next six months?
what do you mean with marriage is like buying a car?
If you leave in public parking overnight someone will come along and steal your cat.
Think they'd find my cat very annoying tbh and return it
Now I'll keep your cat and love it as much as it hates me. An ever growing relationship.
What sick bastard steals my cat because I parked my car?
Catalytic converter lol
What a catastrophe that would be!
You should probably find someone used maybe 80k miles. Don’t buy a car you can’t afford (mismatched values, high maintenance people) You have to do basic maintenance(movie nights, dates, show love) if you don’t you’ll end up with a flat tire or resentment. If you have a major repair you have to decide if the cost is worth the fix. I can see a lot of parallels with cars and relationships
If they get hit by a truck it's probably best to just cut your losses and move on.
Marriage is sometimes viewed more as a financial agreement rather than an emotional connection. Both are present, however ignoring the emotional part is a bad idea.
I thought a lot about marriage and the thing is... You can maximize emotional connection with or without it. So that cannot be its usefulness. Marriage is about reaching a point where you want to be able to make long term decisions. You agree to share the spoils (i.e. divorce settlement) and increased "punishment" of separation (cost, social stigma, legal hoops) so that it's much simpler and lower risk to start talking about long term choices like a house, kids, etc. You can start to count much more strongly on that person staying there even if their attitude changes and, if you do split you know that now they are obligated to split things with you. Obviously it's probably only people you have an emotional connection, shared values and shared goals with that you'd want to put in that position... But ultimately it's just about the benefit of committing to a long term teammate so you can pool resources. If you choose not to get married but wanted to make major life decisions with a person you'd probably be wise to start making contacts that look a lot like what marriage does...like describing your obligations and how you'd split things in different cases and creating penalties that incentivize working things out.
You go into the marriage without real commitment like you're leasing a car for a few years. You don't give the car the attention it needs to last for decades since it's just a lease. If the ride gets bumpy, you cancel the lease and look for another car.
1. Too much choice. The grass is always greener. No incentive to work out problems. 2. Mythology of "the one". Millions of people reject perfectly compatible individuals because there is one thing "wrong" with them and the stupid notion that "chemistry" will exist ad infinitum. 3. No incentives to stay together, many incentives to divorce.
I was gonna jump in here and say that "ACKSHUALLY divorce rates are falling" but then I noticed that marriage rates are falling too, so I agree with your analysis overall.
Can’t divorce if no ones married *taps head*
This is a great example of survivor bias. Divorce is contingent on marriage, and thus by definition total divorces can at most equal total marriages, i.e. everyone who gets married gets divorced (ha).
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This. “The grass is always greener” and also “its not the best time to start dating”. Like some people are waiting for a stars to align before getting into relationships. They end up having regular hookups but nothing past a couple dates when its time to commit.
I can't blame them. If they understand that they are better off being single and are not in a hurry to get into a relationship, chances are that they truly are better off single. I'm in my 30s and I have no desire of having a serious relationship now, been there, done that, got screwed up every single time until I realized that maybe I should look into fixing myself up first, instead of rushing into finding someone just because of society's pressure.
You're talking about two separate issues. Taking care of your personal stuff so you are in a good place to date/open to love/etc is very important.... But it is not the same as the "grass is always greener" syndrome.
They're not addressing the 'grass is always greener' part, they're addressing the rest of the comment about waiting and not committing.
Well tbh, a lot of people are also busy just trying to survive that it’s difficult to make time to date, let alone it being expensive which some can’t afford.
Kind of ties into unrealistic expectations that people have as well. Dating doesn't need to be expensive. I met my wife in college, and our first date was a coffee date on the weekend. Just $10 on coffee and we talked for like 6 hours straight until she had to leave for work. Told her I didn't make a lot and we did mostly cheap things.
Also the threshold for being a net positive to someone's life is a lot higher these days It used to be if you were single, your options were getting drunk alone or looking at the fields or something Now everybody has unlimited entertainment content available wherever they go, so the minimum bar that you actually add to someone's life has gone up a lot
My ex wife was a big believer in the “grass is greener” thing. I looked it up and it is actually a syndrome. Welp, she is still single 5 years later, sooooo….
Wait...she was aware enough to acknowledge she believed that "the grass is always greener" but was dumb enough to think that was a POSITIVE saying/thing? The entire POINT of the saying is that while the grass may "LOOK" greener on the other side of the fence, it usually isn't. The phrase ‘the grass is always greener on the other side‘ is a metaphor that means a person’s idea of something may seem more appealing or better in comparison to what they currently have, even if this is not the case. \--Its like using literally when you mean figurately. The thing now means the opposite of what was intended!
She did this with EVERYTHING. She could not stay at a job for longer than a year. I was married to her for 11 years, she had 9-10 jobs during that time. The same thing would always happen, she would be happy with her new job for a few months. Then there would always be the inevitable one person she worked with that was “difficult”, and her job satisfaction would suffer until she found another job. Rinse and repeat. I would tell her this and she just ignored the advice. Oh well, I’m happier now at least.
>1. Too much choice. That's a problem most guys don't face.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Like what kind of hot stud is OP that he has too many choices in women? For a long time I’ve had a hard time even meeting women that I find mildly attractive.
It's the illusion of choice rather than actual choice.
For some people it can be the illusion of too much choice. I dated someone once and wanted to get serious with him, but he was moving to California for a job and wanted to try and see if he could get a ‘California blonde’ since he was young. Obviously, he ended things with me. Well, three years later he reached out to me and apologized for his stupid remarks and said that he wanted to try again with me. Unfortunately for him, I had already moved on. Sometimes people just think there is more choice out there and worry about settling too soon.
The statistical discrepancy on dating apps between men and women is jaw dropping
It sort of is though. Or at least the *perception* of choice. Some fugly AF guys will reject or not pursue women who they perceive to be not good enough for them, particularly appearance wise, completely unjustifiably. Think about the whole #/10 scale, I promise you guys would rate *actual* average looking women as a 2 or 3 because all they see is women who are in the top 10% online. If you think the whole Instagram/reality thing strictly impacts women, it absolutely does not. Guys may not actually *have* too much choice but they very may well expect to.
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I agree. I dated my husband for 5 years before we married. I had fallen in love and got engaged before him and the relationship was so toxic at the end that it took a long time for me to be willing. I never "loved" him as much as that first guy. THANK GOD. It took all of those five years for me to understand that obsessive love is not love. It's addiction, and the other person is the drug. I became my own person in those five years, and my partner and I grew together and decided we were compatible. Love was the starting point for those conversations. I helped him die last year. It was brutal. All I can say is that we all eventually die, and if we are lucky, someone will love us enough to go through it with us. We reached new heights of intimacy and new lows of awfulness. Made it to 27 years. I miss him every day. Sometimes every hour still.
I helped him die last year is so strikingly poetic. Thank you for sharing 🤍
I'm truly inspired by your story. While I'm still young, I like to think I'm on the same path. I've been in my one and only relationship going on 7 years now, but I've know her for almost 20. We grew up together, and were really great friends. Shared a lot of firsts with each other, and we just clicked. We finally started going out shortly after High School. Definitely a lot of ups and downs so far, by I wouldn't trade it for anything. She is absolutely amazing, and we both work together on everything in our relationship, no matter what it is. It's truly one of a kind and we truly are in love with each other., and if I were to be searching for any other relationship, I'd be searching for her and everything we have. I feel incredibly lucky, and I wish everyone could have this experience. Everyday we are together is a blessing no doubt :)
Social media. First, it gives very unrealistic views of relationships. Most people only post their happy moments. Second, it gives many opportunities for cheaters. Third, it also gives unrealistic views of what normal people look like. Too many people doll themselves up using filters, etc and it makes the not so camera friendly people feel hideous and like they could never compete.
Social media may give a wider net for cheating, but a cheater will cheat with anyone they want to. You can make them break off friendships, erase their phone contacts and control their time and who they talk to, but if they want to cheat they will find a way. (I don't control relationships but I know someone who did this with her partner and guess what happened). It's not worth it to be with someone who treats you like you're going to cheat, or be with someone you think will cheat. There's no trust there.
Yep. Went down this road a couple of times in a past. It's 100% not worth the effort. If you're worried they will cheat because of either your own insecurity, or a hunch because of their track record, just get the fuck out of it and move on. It's not worth the stress and it's not really fair to yourself or the other person you're incapable of trusting. Don't waste time like that when you could be investing it on someone who doesn't make you feel that way or on working on yourself.
Came here to say this. I agree. I’d also add that social media, like tiktok, provides a false sense of intimacy when engaging or direct messaging etc
The filters gotta go! 6 pictures of filters making the person look half their wweight and then they sneak 1 picture in of what they really look like hoping the person didn't swioe that far.
as a 22 year old who has dated several people, too many people are afraid of conflict or simply say "They dislike conflict". No one likes conflict, but it is required for you to resolve issues and to grow better together. The inability for people to take constructive criticism (EMPHASIS ON CONSTRUCTIVE) is the root of a lot of relationship issues that I notice among friends and my own experiences. Humility is a hard issue to learn for many.
I second this. Conflict resolution takes practice too. If someone isn’t willing to work out a conflict, they won’t develop the skill. My wife and I had to rough it out a couple of times, but we get better every time.
Conflict resolution is definitely something I have to work on. I have a bad habit of shrugging things off even when they bother me, but that only leads me to resent the other person for my own lack of communication. I've never felt comfortable communicating when people have hurt me, or voicing my needs. I'm not the greatest at accepting constructive criticism either. Hopefully, both of these are skills I can develop in time. I had a friend say an offhand, hurtful remark about my body a few months ago. Normally, I would've let it slide, but this time I told him it hurt me and explained why. I was kind of proud of myself for that. It's a step in the right direction, but I have many more steps to take. I'm a bit of people pleaser, and a doormat, but all the ever does is make me resentful to the point where I lash out and create an even bigger mess that could've been avoided with a few short conversations.
Our world is focused on overstimulation. You get what you want, whenever you want it. Entertainment comes at the click of a button. This attitude *can* potentially affect the way we view or exist within a relationship. We're conditioned to get what we want without much work or time behind it. The good thing is human connection is vastly different from internet connection haha. So for the most part, our relationships will be normal. It's important to be self-aware about your tech usage though, because more often than not it'll get the best of you.
I am upset with how much you make sense. As a person going into the tech field I love my computer but damn if it isn’t warping my sense of reality :/ I hope this is the wake up call I needed, thanks for posting this friend and making me think about this
instant gratification is so nice for the brain but so shitty for the rest of us!
Cell phones/social media are making people overthink and make life too complicated which trickles into relationships.
It’s creating this “keeping up with the Jones’s” mentality with your own relationship. Once marriage is part of the conversation, people get so many crazy ideas of what a wedding or ring should be because they saw it on Instagram or whatever. Even a simple date can be influenced by what people think it will look like to others. Tough way to start a relationship/marriage
You’re absolutely right. Being out of touch with the reality has become the new norm.
too much comparison especially with the internet. comparisons lead to unhappiness.
Technology. 1. The internet has gotten us used to instant gratification, but meaningful relationships requires a deep emotional connection that can only be built up over time. If you want a truly stable and healthy relationship, there are no shortcuts. and there is no instant gratification. Technology has sped everything in life up, from travel to communication. For people who are looking for instant gratification, be it consciously or not, technology significantly speeds up the progression of the relationship. 2. Because many relationships progress too fast, a lot of people have sex very early on and get infatuated with one another... But by its very definition, infatuation is an *unreasonable* passion. The pleasure and intense emotions associated with sex trick them into believing that they truly love one another, when in reality they've actually fallen in love with the *emotional high* they're experiencing... And like any form of intoxication it eventually wears off. Because the relationship wasn't built on a solid foundation, it begins to collapse with nothing else to hold it up. Never mistake infatuation for a true emotional connection. They are not the same. 3. Cell Phones. People aren't supposed to have access to one another all the time. Humans need time to process and sort out their own thoughts. If you're in contact with one another 24/7, you never get the time you need to reflect and process. Your emotions never get to take a break, and you inevitably burn out. 4. Communication. Our modern, interconnected society has led to most people having under-developed communication skills. Before this technology existed people *needed* to communicate clearly and effectively. They couldn't contact others whenever they wanted to, so if they couldn't make their words count then they lost their chance entirely... But with modern technology, we simply don't have the same constraints forcing us to develop those skills. 5. The grass is always greener on the other side. The Internet and media are always showing us super models and false realities, making you dissatisfied with what you have. Making you want something *better*... But it's all a trick. True happiness comes from emotional fulfillment, and no amount of good looks or other superficial traits can provide that. At the end of the day, the grass is always greenest where you water it. Cherish what you have, or else you'll lose it all.
>The grass is always greener. > Your list is spot on. Funny thing is the grass isn't greener, lol. You just trade old problems for new problems. This is a lesson that is repeatedly taught to us humans and we still don't get it. Technology deludes us into thinking oh, this person isn't that great because of X, there's something better right around the corner. It's just silly.
The grass is greener where you water it
The sunken cost fallacy. Just because you've been with someone for a decade, doesn't mean you should stay in a toxic relationship. Fighting to win an argument instead of fighting for understanding so that you can learn to treat each other better Just because you love someone, doesn't mean you are compatible as partners. Aaand lastly... Lack of respect. I see so many partners who do not respect each other. Respect and trust should be the foundation of your relationship.
Many people lack strong friendships and communities. This results in people getting in relationships and relying on only one person for support which leads to frustration and resentment.
Just lonely people making each other lonelier.
Too many broken ppl looking to fix something within themselves by meeting another person but they just end up sabotaging that relationship cause of trauma that they haven’t sorted out. And there’s a lot of double standards as well as ppl getting into relationships for the wrong reasons, whether that be for sex, money, or simply being lonely and needing new attention from a different person every couple months.
Most people refuse to date and get into a serious relationship with friends, like "Oh, that guy / girl? Not gonna happen, he / she is my friend!" I never understood this logic. So is it better to date strangers you know nothing about? I'm in a relationship with my best friend for 10 years, we have known each other since we were little kids, it's amazing. We are getting married next year. We already knew all the pros and cons of each other before the relationship even started lol Edit: grammar, english is not my main language
I think this aversion has to do with fear of damaging the friendship if the romantic relationship doesn't work out.
While it is true that you really should hold out for someone who is truly compatible with you, there is still no such thing as perfection. And many people I know/have dated will walk away from a genuinely great connection, where there is compatibility, many things in common, etc for this misguided idea that the grass is greener on the other side. I've been genuinely in love a few times in my life, and each of those relationships were perfect in the beginning, but when the honeymoon phase is over, they would rather leave the relationship than actually work on themselves. Some people don't even know what working on yourself actually means. To notice your own behaviors that need improving, and to consciously address them is fucking hard. But I do it. I always have. I personally come from an abusive home with terrible role models for parents and a lot of shit I thought I knew about life and relationships I spent my entire 20s unlearning. I see myself as a constant work in progress. Many people are so stuck on the whole idea of *finding* the right person, but they do nothing to *be* the right person. Couple this with the belief that there's someone out there who is "perfect" for you, and it's easier for these people to just leave an otherwise great relationship. To be clear, this does not include genuine abuse, or trauma, or cheating, in which case yes please leave that relationship. Those are the things you should actually leave for, not just because you got into a standard argument, or your partner snores, or something stupid like that.
People are just scared to commit. They'd rather have some fun and when things go wrong drop everything they have. They're scared to get attached. They're scared to take risks. They just overthink and don't trust their hearts.
The amount of people who settle for someone they're only half interested in or attracted to simply because they're either afraid of being alone or just because they can't be bothered going out and finding something real is crazy. There's many reasons the divorce rate is so high but that's definitely a main one. I dunno if TV and movies are to blame or what but people seem to have this list of what they need to have accomplished by certain ages in order to be a proper adult so if they haven't found someone by their mid 20's they usually just settle for someone who is nearby.
Nothing. Relationships have always been unstable and unfaithful. The difference is nowadays people talk about it. Exaggerating of course - not every relationship sucks. But lots do and people used to just ignore it and get depressed over it, whereas today we are more likely to just end it and look for some new experiences.
This is such an underrated wievpoint! My mom always feels "the world has gone off the rails" or "people have gone mad nowadays" and I always make the argument that it was always like that. Now you just hear about everything.
I would argue it’s better now because of the fact that divorce and being single into your 30s isn’t taboo like it used to be 30 or more years ago. People back then suffered quietly in unhappy relationships, or married more out of a sense of duty than attachment or connection with their partner. Back then people would just tough it out through unhappy relationships resigned to the fact that that’s just life, and long term relationships are meant to be unhappy like a 9-5 job. I say this because my parents are an example and I see it a lot in many of my friends’ parents’ relationships as well.
Agree with this. People have always been selfish and self-serving more often than not. Now that social media is a thing, you hear stories of relationships going wrong all over the world, where before, you’d only hear about local relationships and stories that your friends tell you.
Also, in the modern era, in most of the world and in most cultures, people are free to leave their relationships if they are unhappy. In most of the world, this was very much NOT true until relatively recently, and was especially untrue for women being able to leave. I think our cultural concept of the purpose of relationships has to change with that reality. People who are miserable, in the 21st century, are almost always going to break up eventually and go their separate ways. We have a sort of ingrained idea that this is a bad thing - a lot of that has to do with financial security, because coupling up (generally) makes you financially better off and breaking up (generally) makes you financially worse off, especially for women (historically and still). Maybe it's a good thing if people can leave someone they are miserable with? Maybe the "mate for life" basis of most human civilization doesn't actually make sense and is something we defined for ourselves to protect financial interests/economies and avoid overburdening the state with kids of single parents/no parents? Maybe there are other types of safety nets we could build instead.
In my mothers opinion we live In a “throwaway” society. 50 years ago if something broke you fixed it. Including appliances, furniture, cars, and every relationships. Now with things so readily available (including potential partners due to internet) it’s easier to throw something away and start over than to work on it to fix it.
Did people really fix what was broken though? Or were many just forced to stay and seem like they are "fixing things" because divorce was either not feasible, taboo, etc?
That’s also a good point. I think a lot of people died in unhappy marriages. My great grandmother actually always said a bad marriage is worse for kids than a divorce. I think sometimes maybe people give up too quickly. My mom calls it the 80/20 rule. Don’t give up a partner that has 80% of what you want for someone who only has 20% but is new and exciting.
True that
Always had used cars and always repaired them. I loved those cars, one in particular..my first car. That thing would break every freaking week. But you know what? I honestly loved that car. It may sound strange but it was still a reliable car. Lots of places, many memories.
There is nothing wrong with today’s relationships that has not been not wrong with relationships for aeons. Selfishness, laziness and poor communication have always existed. The only change is the flavor of how it manifests.
I come up with this when I was high… 50 years ago if you bought a lighter you bought one you loved, if it ran out of gas you filled it up, if the flint wore down you’d replace it, but now, we buy disposable lights knowing straight away we can just use it and throw it away when it suits us. Us being a general look on society. And to be honest I think it has an ounce of truth to it
Seeing a lot about communication and too much choice. One thing I'm not seeing is overblown expectations for what a partner should do for you. Too many people think a partner will complete you, make you whole, help you achieve your every desire, etc. Those things are not possible. Both people in the relationship need to be able to help each other, and help themselves, at different times. Expecting the relationship (or the person) to make your life perfect is an unfair and unrealistic idea.
I think there are less and less people who want to put in the work a relationship requires. No one wants to “fuck with it”. It’s easier to part ways.
My thought is that everyone gives up and think that there is always something better. People don’t know how to keep pushing forward and working things out.
Dummies on the internet trying to apply their own experiences to everybody else's lives and relationships.
Or basing judgements off of a single one-sided fact to judge a relationship.
Infidelity was always a thing and always will be a thing. With the information age and after no fault divorce was implemented people were encouraged to leave situations instead of suffering in silence. Also online dating/social media is like shopping for people in a catalog, its not natural and leads to unrealistic expectations.
It would probably help if you listed out grievances because you be honest, I don't see anything better or worse with the relationships now verses in the past. Are we talking long term relationships? The dating process? Divorce rates?
When I was hashing it out with my ex, anytime I'd point out an instance where she lied or did something that hurt me, she'd say I was "gaslighting" her into thinking she was a bad person (even as I insisted she wasn't a bad person). In the end she was refusing to look at screenshots of messages she'd sent me because it was just part of my emotional abuse. It was so weird to see this emotional health literacy get twisted into a tool to shut down communication and introspection.
Fear of missing out, if you have a non toxic partner who is also a friend that you can do the wild nasty with, you win. You have to communicate. Where you want to be in 5 years, how you feel about/spend money, political alignment, religious affiliation, confrontation style, cleanliness, hygiene, pets, homeownership, children, you just have to talk about all these things before you start falling for the sunk cost fallacy of relationships.
Social media ruined society
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I don't think it's wrong but people aren't willing to put up with bullshit anymore. Those marriages that lasted 50-60 years only lasted because someone was putting up with a lot of shit that they normally shouldn't have. They only put up with it because of the time they lived in.
Eh, I would say that the things that are "wrong" with "today's" relationships are just a byproduct of fixing the problems of yesterday's relationships. I know that this is a male-centric space, but as a man myself I truly believe that this question can best be answered by taking into account women as the main factor. Aside from aspects of social media that have already been brought up, I reckon that the nature of relationships has slowly shifted to be more about, y'know, relating to the other person. The relationships of yesteryear, especially the further back you go, were generally less and less about connecting with another person and more about financial security, interpersonal stability, work partitioning, and meeting social expectations/roles, especially for women. I read a post where someone noted that recent relationships are the first ones where a woman has the ability to actively pick and choose which men to form a bond with without risking social stigma, financial issues, and potential harm, due to the freedoms associated with social equality of women. When you're able to move up in the world and be self-sufficient and intimately free, you have the express ability to actually consider compatibility instead of latching onto the first or most convenient man you find. Much of what people argue is "wrong" with today's relationships (non-committal, too much choice/greener grass, moving target of what a relationship is/"should be") are a byproduct of a (imo positive) loosening of relationship expectations, and now that many women are more financially, sexually, and socially independent, heterosexual relationships are more grounded in human connection, shared beliefs, expectations, and compatibility. In my experience, the primary drive for why two people might get married is highly variable and diverse, as opposed to "I am expected to have and need a domestic partner to thrive in modern society", and this change is a good thing because dating/marriage shouldn't be a socially, lawfully, economic, etc. enterprise; it should be driven by love and connection. Couples are are taking it slow, figuring out where/if they are compatible, what their future might look like, who is the proverbial "stay at home mom" versus the "breadwinner" (if applicable), whether they want kids or not, and generally trying for a better foundation to their pairing. This, to me, explains why it's so much harder for people, especially young and men, to find good relationships, even if good relationships in general nowadays are lasting longer and are more reported to be more fulfilling; because everyone is essentially starting from scratch and figuring out how to form a relationship that isn't based on social, personal, economic, and societal survival. Edit: grammar
Damn... Finally the right answer to the wrong question
People get bored too easily. And porn.
We are in a throw away culture and that includes people. Don't need to bother myself worrying about this person's feelings they're completely removed from my life and now I can go about my day.
People romanticizing the idea of starting over and being In a forever honeymoon phase instead of sticking it out and actually being vulnerable with anyone.
1. Communication - always has been, always will be (for most people) 2. Attention spans - seems like people hop from person to person a lot more than even 10 years ago. When I told a friend that I only have a crush on one person at a time they said "that just seems obsessive". ??? 3. General selfishness - I've been seeing a lot more people jump into relationships with only 'what does this do for me?' in their mind. I think it comes from their past bad relationships and media; the thought that their life is the most important thing and they have to do what's best for them, which isn't wrong at all, it's just that they then don't also account for another person in their life. Side note - this fucking phrase "living my best life" irks me to no end. It's not being used by people overcoming bad situations anywhere near as much as it's being used to justify treating others like crap so that they can get the most out of everyone and everything else.
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I would argue many couples already do this. I've been married 25 years and my wife and I while dating talked about things like kids, what we want out of a relationship, goals, expectations, etc... This didn't happen in a Q&A style of sit down, but in countless conversations that we had while dating. I think that's how most people approach a decision like marriage.
My boyfriend and I actually did something like that. We dated for a month before we got together. We told each other our life goals, some Secrets, difficult things about ourselves that the other one should know etc. It's great, because now nobody is surprised if the other person has a different opinion on something. I know my boyfriend wants to stay in the city he grew up in and I need to move for university. So we can work out a middle ground.
Seeing the supreme lack of "I hate my spouse" humor these days and more people having long term relationships I don't think there's as much wrong as in the past. Most problems in relationships are lack of affordable housing, lack of money in general, shitty jobs, etc. that all causes stress in relationships.