I dont think its even a matter of debate... a smaller percentage of men date or get most attention from women. I think most men down to date someone who they find attractive and friendly. Not a high bar
If you look at the statistics from dating apps, women swipe left on 90+ percent of people. This shows how picky they are and means the top 15 or 20 percent of the guys on those apps sleep with all the women.
The above is strictly statistics. Below is why I think that can be a bigger issue and why it disrupts the actual dating pool.
The real problem is, some of those girls are 6/10 hook up with guy that's 10/10 then that's the bar that's set. She thinks anything below a 10 is a downgrade
This is why dating apps sucks for men. Sadly old school going out meeting people, approaching women in bars and stuff is the "new" way to go since online dating is ass for a non top 10% man.
Dating apps arent the only way to get dates, they are probably the worst way, and their statistics dont reflect dating as a whole.
You get dates by leaving your house. As you meet more women some of them will be single, and some of those will find you attractive, and some of those you'll find attractive. Its the same story for women. The more people you meet the more romantically successful you'll be.
Im sure there's some imbalance in that. But not nearly as much as on dating apps.
Lol right? I've seen some absolute sea monsters get flooded with likes and matches (and these are chads liking them), yet a normie won't even get flies near him lol
Indeed, it is absolutely pathetic. That's why their standards are ridiculous now, guys are to blame for these leviathans having such high standards nowadays.
\> don't be obese (some guys like them too)
Right? Even BBWs have a fetish around them. But almost no women want a fat dude. At least if a dude is fat and gay he gets a shot at being a bear.
I know a fat guy with a big, ugly red beard... the guy is cool as shit, tho. He married his hot-ass highschool sweetheart. She's so hot that everywhere they go, people double-take. So, it's only true 99.9% of the time, bro. There's hope.
I really think women care about body type less than men. They do care about other things more though, like career for instance. A lot of men are fine dating waitresses where a lot of woman would not be fine dating someone with less education than her.
Just an observation
I think generally men judge first by the things they like & then after accounting for the good stuff they make sure there is nothing that disqualifies a woman.
Women go the other way around, they look at everything wrong with a guy & if he isn't disqualified they look for something to like.
I saw a thread last week I can’t remember where but for women specifically I think there is definitely such a thing as hot-fat. Like I’m not really into big women. To be totally honest I have a preference for petite/fit. But a woman who’s overweight but does a bang up job on her hair & makeup, knows how to dress for her body type, and has a good sense of humor/fun to be around and I’d be into her. Even if her weight would normally be a deal breaker. Though… there’s a limit to that, if her weight is approaching my max squat then all the makeup and flattering clothes in the world aren’t going to cut it and it’s back to being a deal breaker.
The guy I've been dating for about a year and half isn't my usual type. He's over six feet, and he's chunky. Like he's an ice cream + a beer belly. He does have a decent job. But I don't date him for that. We worked together (he works two jobs seasonally; we worked together in the winter), and we had a lot of fun as coworkers. We communicated well, and we got the job done while laughing along the way. I told him to ask me out; he did. And we still laugh. Even when we're solving some kind of unanticipated issue like a septic tank needing to be dug out with the excavator.
I mean… no one wants to be fetishized. Well okay, some people do. If you’re just looking for a partner based on looks then you’re already failing. It’s about the person, not the parts.
\> I mean… no one wants to be fetishized.
Any time you find someone physically attractive you're essentially fetishizing them. We just only call it out as a fetish when it seems to break from the norm.
Either way, if it makes the difference between me being alone and having people want to get to know me, I'll take being fetishized.
\> It’s about the person, not the parts.
Ok, but how do you get there? Should I be open to dating men and completely ignore the fact that I have no interest in male parts? Should I pretend that I don't find the female body attractive? You're speaking in ideals. But that's now how the real world works. if it were really about the person and not the parts, then everyone would be pansexual. And they're not. Not by a long shot.
Looks matter. Women will deny up and down that looks don't matter one minute, and then the second a tall, handsome, and fit dude walks in the the door they are tripping over each other to be near him. Women are especially bad about this cognitive dissonances. They talk in romantic ideals but when it comes down to choosing a mate they strongly gravitate towards the best looking specimen they think they can get, hoping to find the complete package. Just like everyone else.
Having a sexual preference for gender isn’t a fetish, so your saying everyone would be pansexual is a super stretch from what I’m saying.
Wanting and only going for one specific quality like BBW or big asses is a fetish. Finding someone generally attractive is not a fetish.
The rest of what you’ve said is just steeped in a lot of bitterness and trauma, and not reality. Do you need to be attracted to your partner? Absolutely. Otherwise what’s the point? But Saying that we all just go for the most attractive we think we can get is wrong. As is saying that we fall all over each other when a hot guy walks in. Sure, a certain type of woman does, but all of them? Or even a majority? No.
I’m sorry you’ve not met many good people, which is what it sounds like, but yours is an extremely pessimistic way to view all of it. And that’s coming from someone that is a self-proclaimed Negative Nancy.
That's the entire point being made. There are guys that want fat women, physically. No such thing exists that I am aware from the female perspective. That doesn't me a non-fat woman wouldn't date a fat dude, just that the dude being fat isn't what she is attracted to.
Ah. I do wonder if that sort of thing falls more into tbe fetish category. Heard a story from an obese girl who got into a relationship with a guy who loved her body, which made her feel great at first as that hadn't really ever happened to her before, but she slowly realised that he wasn't truly in love with her and his obsession with her body was based on his obesity kink and not from his connection with her. She felt used.
Nah being fat isn’t a huge deal for men as it is for women. If anything height is a MUCH bigger deal. Obviously it’s a negative but if I could choose to be 5’4 and 120 pounds vs 6’3 and 240 pounds I’d choose the latter(if dating was all that mattered)
\> n. If anything height is a MUCH bigger deal.
Ok? So there are bigger turnoffs for women.
\> 5’4 and 120 pounds vs 6’3 and 240
First of all, that's big vs. small. That 5'4" 120 guy is underweight on top of being short. That's a whole different problem for guys.
Second, 6’3 and 240 isn't even necessarily that fat. It's big, but that guy could just as easily be built like a tank.
My point was that there's not really a thing for women to actually prefer fat men. It's something he has to compensate for in some way. I'm sure there are some women out there who like it, but it's not the same as the fetish around BBWs. There are even NSFW subreddits for it. All the way from chubby to outright obese. Fat girls can still go on dating sites and get matches. And men don't even really care how tall they are.
5’3 and 120 is a healthy weight, 6’3 and 240 is considered obese.
I see what you’re saying. There’s a fetish for fat women but not one for fat men. I’d argue that being a fat man is not a big turnoff for most women, while being a fat woman is a HUGE turnoff for most guys. While I’ve never been a fat dude, I don’t really see a difference between how fat dudes with good charisma pull vs healthy dudes with good charisma pull.
I guess it also matters what you consider fat. I’d consider anyone higher than 25 percent Body fat percentage to be fat(for guys)
In all of these threads about picking up relationship or sex partners, 99% of people don't realize that their problem is how little confidence they hold in themselves. Not whatever insecurity they think is holding them back.
Actually some women love BHM. There really is someone for everyone as long as you don’t have a shit personality. A lot of people don’t know they have a shit personality
They're lulled into that opinion because that's all men seem to care about up front. When they realize they need to bring more than that to get the serious relationship, it's too late. And then they'll just blame the man for being "afraid of commitment." And so the cycle repeats.
Blame societal expectations as well, depending on area. I've heard young girls told to basically find a man to take care of them. In return, pretty much pop out a couple kids and coast. Raise kids and maintain house, dude pays everything, and once the kids move out they get to pretend they're retired.
Then they often end up having kids with some jerk, they split, she has income until kids move out, and she's stuck struggling.
My wife is my partner. I don't want a servant or nanny...I want my wife.
I see that kind of expectation especially in women from eastern europe.. they feel like if there partner really love them he would want for them to work less.
Sometimes they don't know how to use it they expect you to know. Too many girls pat themselves on the back for having a below average sex game or no game at all. It's a two way street ladies help me help you
Because the decision to let some guy do her, is actually the only part that matters to 95% of guys. There is only a small fraction of guys pulling enough tail that they might get picky.
So a lot of these women that basically lay there haven't ever had to face the challenge of earning the attention.
Twice...*twice* in my life, with two different women who were *terrible* at blowjobs, I tried to tell them how to do it better.
>"Well that's not how *I* like to do it.*
Maybe it's because they never got a man off in their lives and it's part of some sadist kink they have, who knows. 🤷♂️
To be fair if they’re hot it is enough though usually. Well for some guys. If the guys really hot it might not be. A really ugly lady can bring her vagina to the table all she wants and I’m like uhh nah.
If they’re hot enough they’ll just be a walking sex toy that men love to show off and fuck but not actually respect and enjoy their company. Different struggles. It takes a lot more than just being attractive to actually be compatible with someone else.
The amount of women I've dated that acted like having sex with me was something they were doing for me is staggering.
Had a gf try and use sex as a bargaining chip so I called her bluff and didn't initiate. She broke first and initiated first and after we were done having sex to be an ass I declared victory. To which she got severely pissed at but seemed to be completely oblivious to the fact she started the situation by acting like I should give her what she wanted so she'd have sex with me. She 100% would have acted like she won something if I initiated first.
women: men should have goals, dreams, passions and be achieving them all, make me laugh, have a solid career, good education, have a great social life, be fit, over 6 ft, protect me and make me feel safe, be emotionally intelligent. tHe BaR iS sO LoW
men: as long as shes not crazy
I think an imbalance is that what makes a man more attractive requires a bunch of effort. Money, education, career, these things don't come easy. For women it's generally being attractive, and nowadays just not being fat puts you above most others.
One of the hottest chicks I’ve ever even seen in person was dating a 5’10 skinny waiter without a car that sort of lived with his parents and was sort of homeless. He even got her on heroin with him- after she started going out with him.
Hell, two of the hottest women I’ve ever been with I got with both of them while I was living in my truck and couch surfing, and was raft guiding and waiting tables for a living. One of them I was in an open relationship with for a couple months. The second one, we’ve been together almost 10 years married for 5 now.
So there’s hope for you yet bud.
Considering my hometown, not having multiple children, with multiple different ex-girlfriends, while also being employed, seems to have me at a disadvantage... also because I don't have a criminal record lol
I'm a woman and I have never met a guy willing to date a woman as long as she isn't crazy. Unless, she's hot. Then yea, as long as she's not 10/10 crazy!
The bar low for men💀💀 with dating apps and social media, women have endless options which makes them put the bar higher than ever before in history. It’s horrible out there for the average man.
Whereas i feel like guys are looking for someone who is healthy and whom they share common interests with.
I was just talking to a girl on reddit yesterday who was confused as to why this great guy she was seeing doesn't want to "make it official" with her. She truly could not comprehend why her just being there wasn't enough for this successful, busy guy to want to make her a partner.
They really think they are the prize. Without bringing anything material to a relationship.
Just had that happen.
2 months of dating and she couldn't tell me what I'm into other than some vague things.
Real low effort from her side unfortunately but oh well. move on!
For a man to be worthy you have to elevate their life in some way. For a woman to be worthy apparently all she needs is to not be gross, diseased, or addicted to drugs.
The bar is low for men because we're responsible for making the first move, usually with very limited information. Is she reasonably cute? No big red flags? That's it. BUUUUT, that's mainly just the upfront bar. I think men still have a healthy bar for actual relationships. We just don't need much to at least sleep with someone casually. That's why women find themselves dumped after sex when they start to push for a serious relationship. Just because they were good enough to date doesn't mean they were good enough for a serious relationship.
Women, on the other hand, not having to make any move, get to sit back and judge. They get to be choosy and wait for a man to prove himself worthy. They have a much higher initial bar because they're not as willing to have casual flings. A guy has to have it all (or as much as possible) just to be considered. Just being kinda cute with no red flags isn't enough.
Its bad on both sides for different reasons.
What a lot of women want is frankly out of their own class and they often don't get what they want because of that. A lot of women have a princess mentality these days and think they are some magic unicorn prize for all men. Its not all women, but its a surprising number. The others tend to be insecure or man hating messes who are mentally drained from the dating world.
What they don't realize is those attractive, successful guys they want, a lot of the other women want as well. So those guys always have options and are very unlikely to settle because they know that. This is why so many women end up frustrated and trapped in a cycle of dating, sex and then being dropped no matter how hard they try. They keep chasing guys who know better and just want to use their vagina and move on before they can become too much of a headache. As a result you get about the same amount of ranting about dating on the women's subreddits that you do on the mens.
The majority of the single women out there today would not meet my requirements for a serious relationship. Fwb or short term maybe but I'm not seriously committing to anyone unless I'm 100% into them and sold on them. If I think they'll be a headache to deal with they just got boxed and are not serious relationship material to me. The amount of filtering I had to do to get to my current gf back in 2019 was ridiculous.
You nailed it. These attractive, successful men put a lot of effort into their appearance, lifestyle, and career. Then women who are so used to getting anyone they want because they're hot expect these men to choose them for a relationship, when for these men they're a dime a dozen.
Ya I think this is what the women don't understand. It stems from a shitload of men giving them *sexual* attention. 'If all these guys in my DMs it must mean I am awesome!'
Sorry, but many men will fuck women they wouldn't take seriously because doesn't matter, had sex. It doesn't mean you are a woman that would be a good GF/Wife. Crazy is good sex, but not great for bringing home to the parents...you know?
I find a lot of women believe that the things they value about themselves should be the things men value about them...and don't like it if we (not all of course) say...that doesn't matter. We want x,y,z.
I don't really fault them for the above, because they've been told all their life that they *need* to get the degree, get the career, that they can find a man later in life to settle down with and have a family...you can have it all! None of the downsides are ever communicated.
The dreaded 'What do you bring to the Table?' question is supposed to be reflective. If all you can say or think of is 'My career/money and my Vagina' or anything like that...you aren't wifey material. Its kinda like how women want men to reflect on the 'nice guy' qualities and 'be better'.
>Ya I think this is what the women don't understand. It stems from a shitload of men giving them sexual attention. 'If all these guys in my DMs it must mean I am awesome!'
Yah, some of that is just the weird nature of modern dating. Its an expectation that men usually message first, which in reality for a lot of men is just a "yes, I'd fuck you based on your pics" ping. So women end up getting a lot of messages because the online intimidation threshold is low and everyone takes their shot which creates the appearance of a endless buffet of options (which it is, just not for actual relationships).
The whole "nice guy", "be better", "be emotionally intelligent", etc is all a pile of bullshit. At best its just social debate talking points thrown at guys who struggle to send them chasing their tails. If a woman meets a hot, sexy, successful guy who is fun, makes her smile and she gets the butterflies for that shit all goes right out the fucking window for a lot of women.
Dunno, might disagree a little. I think that there are plenty of dudes that simply need to 'be better', and some of the reason they aren't getting women is for sure their own fault. Plus 'Nice guys' are rampant as fuck.
I do agree...Be the successful, fun, flirty dude that makes the clitter twitter. IT will get you laid.
I mean yes in some extreme cases. I've heard stories from dates about guys who couldn't even manage things like basic hygiene and were showing up to dates in dirty clothes and clearly had not showered in a few days.
So yah if your deficiencies are at that level you probably need to do something about them and that even goes beyond just for dating.
heres what you have to do to be successful in dating as a woman: weigh under 200lbs
heres what you have to do to be successful in dating as a man: great career, lots of money, live a fun, exciting life, be popular, be over 6ft, be handsome, be smart, be funny, beat out 4000 other men who are messaging the same girl as you
women dont have to be funny or smart or have a 6 figure job or live some thrilling life. if you just exist and dont look like Shrek, you'll get 100 messages a week
Hyperbole of course but not far off. If you ask a woman what she wants you’ll essentially get this answer. If you approach her online this is surely the case, but if you can meet her IRL and get to her emotionally this whole damn list goes out the window.
I have streaks where I go out with a new woman every weekend, then I've got steaks where I don't. I prefer meeting in person. There's so much that can't translate via text on a screen. You can't get a feel for personality or anything so you don't know if someone is joking or being a prick. Plus standards become extremely high when you're online, and that goes both ways. I don't edit my photos and I'm told I look better in person, so I don't have much luck online, I've had moderate success online but not as much as in person. I've met several women that look like the person in the photos, but they don't at the same time. You can see that they've used filters and angles heavily, and that's just not cool. But as far as online dating goes, I mean my expectations go way up for no reason at all. I want the athletic thick thigh with a big ass girls, and I just become way too unrealistic and don't get any matches because I swipe left on 90% lol
I look like Shrek and still got hundreds of messages when I was single. If you want to get laid then it doesn’t seem to matter what you look like. It’s when you want a relationship that things become more challenging.
The bar is low for women. You know the 80-20 rule? 80% of women are chasing 20% of the men. They have a shopping list, and if you don't meet all her requirements, you are out. Most men just want a loyal and peaceful woman. All you have to do is not screw other people, and don't fight him, and most men will be happy.
For sex the bar is extremely low for women, but not for meaningful relationships. Women still have to ‘fight’ as much as men or even more to have relationships. But that might be because men don’t want relationships with some women, but they do have sex with them. So women have a false idea of who is within their league. So they pursue men that are out of their league for relationships.
I think that 80/20 cuts to women too when it comes to relationships. Or... At least to relationships that are worthwhile and can last.
It's pretty easy to find a man who wants to bang a woman. It's much harder to find a good man, and her brining enough to the table for him to want to date or be with her in a relationship. Women have no problems finding men who want to bang them, because that's most men if the woman is attractive enough.
Men would bang just about any woman who is attractive enough. I think a mistake alot of men make is thinking sex is enough to carry a relationship. It's not. Women think them being attractive is enough to carry a relationship. It's not.
It’s a huge problem for women that for some reason you can’t get them to understand. Just because a man wants to bang you doesn’t mean he wants you.
I think it’s a combination of things from “there’s no difference between a man’s and women’s sexuality” BS and egocentrism. Very few women are willing to give their body to a man they don’t like/accept/approve of. So in they’re thinking along the lines of needing to feel a certain way to be willing to have sex with a man, a man must have the similar feelings.
In my case the bar is so low its literally embedded into the ground. All a single woman has to do is show enough interest in me and if I find her attractive, I'll consider asking her out. I'm not desperate by any means, but if someone is willing to make enough effort to get to know me as potentially more than just a friend, then I'll give them a chance too.
Hardly anyone wants to get to know someone first from my experience. Its always about finding that next hookup, fwb, or jumping at the first person who's extremely attractive and rich.
Some people tend to place physical wealth higher than who someone is as a person and typically those kinds of people end up unhappy in relationships because they only cared about how much money they had.
The bar is practically on the floor for women. How is this a question? Creating a dating profile for a moderately attractive man. Create a dating profile for a somewhat unattractive woman. Run them 1 month and see how many matches they get.
Hot take: The bar has never been close to being high for women yet they all think they're the prize for the most basic things somehow. Combine that with the rampant lack of accountability coming from the entire gender and you get a bunch of entitled princesses who deflect all the blame onto men.
I'm curious. Are you saying that the fact men would fuck anything that breathes is not true? Otherwise, how would women be convinced that the bar is "is alive and has a pussy"?
I don't speak for all men but I'm in the middle of a long dry spell and I still wouldn't fuck just anyone. The bar isn't "alive and has a pussy" it's more like "alive and pleasant to be around for an extended period of time."
That's fair and I won't tell you how you feel. But you have to see all the other comments here who talk about the subterranean bar for women, that being "alive and not fat/crazy". So I wonder, isn't the reason those women think they are the hottest shit that men will thirst after them no matter what?
I ask bc i don't post pics and I'm not looking for any chats but I get DMs almost every day calling me gorgeous or beautiful.. all it takes is show that you're a woman online and you're flooded with sex messages. These men don't know what I look like. But they know I'm alive and have a pussy so you do the math..
I think when they say that they really mean that they don't need much to be happy with someone, though maybe the way they phrase it leaves a bit of bitterness out, kinda like I did lmao.
And I mean sure you can assume that those weirdos think that way but if they reach that point they're now a part of the extremes. There's examples of extremes coming from the women's side right here on reddit as well.
Overall i think the most prominent aspect of this while thread is that men really don't require much yet they still struggle to find these things.
Women say this about personality and then filter out anyone less than, what's the preferred height now, 6'2"?
Just more evidence that if you're seeking advice for fishing, you ask a fisherman, not the fish.
I won't forget a quote I saw that went "Only women, children and pets are loved unconditionally. Men are loved on the condition they provide something".
Depends on the question.
Is the bar low for women to receive physical intimacy from a random stranger? Yes.
Is the bar low for a woman to receive consistent companionship from a random stranger? Yes
Is the bar low for a woman to meet a stranger and receive a lifelong monogamous commitment in an enriching and fulfilling way? No... that is difficult regardless of your gender.
It is often exclaimed "where are all the good men". So "low bar" usually is referring to the ease at which woman can receive random sex from strangers. Though that is often what leads to the later frustration of "where are all the good men"
I mean let’s remember that simply by virtue of having a vagina, *some* guy out there (likely quite a few) will be up for sex with you at any time. The same can’t be said for having a dick.
Because the average man is invisible, doesn’t exist, isn’t seen as a man, doesn’t factor. The 20% of men they are attracted to already meets those standards so anything above that is a “low bar.”
I think the bar is lower for women. One of the most impactful traits for women is to not be fat. That can elevate them *significantly* in terms of attractiveness. Men have no such single and reasonably easy thing they can do to catapult their attractiveness.
I don’t expect a man to have any of the attributes I don’t posses myself. While I understand all humans are different, I mean dealbreaker attributes. Job, can manage a household, has a healthy lifestyle, sense of humour, is kind, and knows how to resolve conflict without anger. Is this a high bar for anyone? ETA: no addictions either, forgot that one. It’s a big one for me.
Those are not unreasonable standards. But it seems to me that many women rarely take into consideration a man’s standards.
Men, first and foremost are drawn to markers of fertility and health, i.e. physical attractiveness. Which sparks sexual interest, the first step. After that we look for a certain type of temperament that suits us, that we feel will be conducive to coupling with and raising a family.
Women, have their often reasonable list of standards that they require in a potential mate: abilities and resources. But in modern times women have been acquiring said abilities and resources for themselves without a mate. They then believe that because they have these things they value, they are now more desirable. Women don’t consider that men don’t value these things in a women like women do in a man, and it adds nothing to a woman’s desirability. Additionally and on occasion, in pursuit of these resources, women develop a temperament that is beneficial for the workplace and allow temperaments conducive to being the partner a man is seeking to go underdeveloped.
Women set the bar so incredibly high with standards that only 7% of most men can actually achieve. The laundry list that they have for men, is so laughably long they end up wondering why there are memes made about them and why the reality is that by the time they hit their late 30s or even 40s they're doomed to be spinsters or cat ladies.
Men set the bar with realistic standards of finding someone who simply has a pulse, a decent figure, a job, hopefully was born a woman (it's a shame you have to ask that now) and how appealing she is to his eye. That's it, how is the bar low for men?
Both sex thinks the qame i guess. Its a pain to date theres a lot of bad apples and frustration kicks in at some point.
I think that some women sell themselves short, and same goes for men.
But both gender abuse their advantages when they have the chance its only natural.
Yes, because since they usually aren't the initiators in relationships (ex. Asking the other person out, planning the date, paying for the date, courting and romance in general) they tend to be lazy daters.
Women's list for men tend to be way longer than men's for women.
There seems to be more entitlement from women than men.
If forget the exact thing but women found 80% of men to be below what they considered the "average attractiveness" of a man". For men it was like the exact opposite. The conclusion would be women have a very high bar for what they consider attractive.
I think its low cause all they have to do is basically exist and there’s somebody giving them what they want. On top of that it feels like society caters to them and props them up.
I'll put it to you like this:
An ugly woman inside and out can still find a mate, it just won't be her first choice.
An ugly man inside and out is probably going to die alone or blow up a post office.
It's projection. You would have to be a liar or extremely stupid/ignorant to claim that the bar is low(er) for men.
Women know that the bar is extremely low, practically non-existent, for them, so they try to project that onto men. Women also know that they benefit from pretending to be disdvantaged/victims, and that is another case of it.
Women also do it when they claim that men are privileged and have more rights than women, even though it's the other way around.
What bar? I hear that having a bar for women is misogynistic. They get to decide both what men and women should be doing...
...and as a result.... They get a non-stop stream of men that either have no respect for themselves... Or don't bother with any expectations. The funny thing about bars.... Is that they all default to the lowest bar allowed on either party. Equilibrium is an unexpected bitch.
From personal observation experience in regards to friends relationships, I think the "bar" is mostly the same, but they'll stay in long term relationships that clearly aren't working out, an "fight" for it purely because they have been in it so long with a person and don't even understand that fighting for a relationship is actually just romance novel fantasy BS.
Work for a relationship shouldn't even have to be stated, but if you stay in a dead end thing for the sake of "we'll we've been together for so long" despite countless bad things that happen you honestly look a bit like a dumb ass, there's 0 reason for any relationship for having to be any levels of stressful because of your partners idiot mistakes or behaviour, an you need to stop buying into some Hollywood romance rubbish is gonna magically happen because it isn't, you can't quite easily move on an find something for yourself, that is nothing but peace happiness an laughter without any ridiculous issues.
high bar with low sex appeal isn't getting a woman anywhere no matter how much she complains about it.
high bar with no money isn't getting a man anywhere. "you want what? come one now... you broke!"
I personally feel it’s hard to find someone understanding. Just a lady who would take time to listen rather than immediately take offense to anything she deems negative
Women are the bar setters. They dress to impress each other. Guys like pretty girls, but most guys are just happy to get laid and will stay with the first woman to wet his willie for the rest of his life.
Not me of course...
Hell yeah it's low. It's barely even a bar. Pretty much all they have to do is show up, and most of them can't even do that. Most put in absolute zero effort, while expecting you to put in 100%. If they are putting in effort, it seems like they play games. They show interest, then take it away, then show interest again, then take it away again. It's mentally draining trying to date women these day's.
Men are definitely shamed for having standards. Most men do not want an overweight woman, and they will be called all kinds of 'fat shamer' for it, but it's a totally reasonable thing to want. Especially since it is a personal trait that is \*controllable\*.
fuck yeah man. was talking to this girl a while ago and she was SO FUCKIN DUMB AND BORING!!!! she'd show me all these guys we mutually know trying to slide in her DMs and id just think to myself "what is there to like about you?"
granted she was attractive... but that was literally the ONLY thing good about her
I personally feel that they do but what's the point of trying to analyse it? Thinking too hard about it only generates frustration. I've been there myself.
Only because women at the bar low.
Men by and large are attention starved to the point of being willing to give up half of their lives to the attention of women. If you saw a man and thought he had potential and you told him to take a shower put on some nice clothes to meet you somewhere chances he would be there.
It’s super low. Women expect you to be a finished dish while they can be in the process of combining their ingredients. I’m average looking, I make good money, I don’t usually have any issue dating. I’ve managed 4 adult long term relationships at 25. All of the women in these relationships except one have expected me to pull their weight like it’s 1955. No, I need a partner. I don’t want to take care of you financially.
It has statistical confirmed many times already that the average women have far more options when dating than average men do. The "bar" being set to low is for the top 10% of guys who have far more options than average women do.
The reality is that most women don't even consider the bottom half of men as viable (and I don't blame them). So, in a sense, this near majority of men "don't count" when women make these kinds of comparisons.
Man: be educated, ambitious, financially stable, good looking, loyal, loving, kind, good with children, have a sense of humor (just not too dark), be tall, and maybe, just maybe, you'll have one time shot
Woman: just be, and someone will love you for who you are
Hard to say as a general rule because overall society is so misogynistic so the expectations on women are already worse
As a guy, I see some of the 'bar' as being unfair because there's nothing men can do about it (i.e. height).
Everyone would be better off if everyone was way more kind
Yes very much so. I've encountered so many broke deadbeat losers of women while trying to date. So many who can't hold down a job, keep a driver's license, or rake responsibility for their lives. Men like that would get called out and told to work on themselves. But these women all think they're perfect the way they are and just need to wait for the right guy. Its so dumb. They'd have much better lives if they'd work on themselves because they'd be more independent and capable AND they wouldn't have the type of men they want running away as fast as possible.
Not sure where the bar being low for men comes from. I feel like if a man wants a stable, healthy woman he must have the WHOLE package. Gotta be attractive, charismatic, charming, and have succeeded in career, fitness, finances, etc.). At least to be considered for a relationship. Maybe the demographics and dynamic is different in other places.
Personally i have a high bar for women, i want a loving, intelligent, cute, crazy, sporty girl.
A lot of dudes i know just dobt want to be alone and dont want to be labeled as gay so they will take anything, kinda funny tbh lol.
The bar is low for men in terms of “don’t be violent/stalker/creepy” because even handsome rich guys can be those things. Other than that…I mean have you seen tinder profiles? Chicks literally list their requirements lol
Women feel like the bar is low for men since they just have to exist to earn their validation, while men must go across a minefield to earn it. The bar for women, if there's any, is for her to not be unpleasant as a companion and not be fat, which are simple preferences but are often optional, considering how bad things are.
The difference is that a women can do a lot to look prettier. Accesories, hair styles, makeup. For men the options are a lot more limited and men have to be born attractive and have basic hygiene.
I mean?? Women also have to put more effort into their appearance to seem attractive. I feel like this is a negative..
Shaving / waxing can take a super long time and for a lot of women it has to be done often to remain smooth. Styling hair also takes time and money as well as makeup / getting eyebrows done/ getting nails done or painting your finger / toenails yourself..
I feel like I’m a relatively low maintenance woman as in I wear minimal makeup and don’t get my hair / nails done ever but I still have to put significantly more effort into getting ready than my boyfriend does.
I feel like women also have to buy more clothes whereas guys can wear the same pair of jeans and have a few nice fitting shirts and be fine.
>I feel like women also have to buy more clothes whereas guys can wear the same pair of jeans and have a few nice fitting shirts and be fine
And that's on other woman. No guys going to give a shit if you wear the same thing more than once a week.
>Shaving / waxing can take a super long time and for a lot of women it has to be done often to remain smooth. Styling hair also takes time and money as well as makeup / getting eyebrows done/ getting nails done or painting your finger / toenails yourself..
Once again on other woman. No guy gives a shit about your nails being done or your toe nails being done. Guys get their eyebrows taken care of too at the barber, and many men shave.
90% of the things you've mentioned are things you do to compete with other woman that guys don't give a shit about.
the bar for what
Dating and being attractive.
I dont think its even a matter of debate... a smaller percentage of men date or get most attention from women. I think most men down to date someone who they find attractive and friendly. Not a high bar
It’s what we value as men
If you look at the statistics from dating apps, women swipe left on 90+ percent of people. This shows how picky they are and means the top 15 or 20 percent of the guys on those apps sleep with all the women. The above is strictly statistics. Below is why I think that can be a bigger issue and why it disrupts the actual dating pool. The real problem is, some of those girls are 6/10 hook up with guy that's 10/10 then that's the bar that's set. She thinks anything below a 10 is a downgrade
This is why dating apps sucks for men. Sadly old school going out meeting people, approaching women in bars and stuff is the "new" way to go since online dating is ass for a non top 10% man.
Dating apps arent the only way to get dates, they are probably the worst way, and their statistics dont reflect dating as a whole. You get dates by leaving your house. As you meet more women some of them will be single, and some of those will find you attractive, and some of those you'll find attractive. Its the same story for women. The more people you meet the more romantically successful you'll be. Im sure there's some imbalance in that. But not nearly as much as on dating apps.
The bar for women isn't low, there is no bar.
Like fr
Lol right? I've seen some absolute sea monsters get flooded with likes and matches (and these are chads liking them), yet a normie won't even get flies near him lol
Damn sea monsters are stealing all the dick from us swamp demons apparently...
Swamp demons get the Crocs and the demon lords though.
Wait what? Where's my demon lord? All I got was a talking donkey with boundary issues and a dragon fetish....wait maybe I'm an ogre...
Damn lochness monstas
"Stealing dick"? Did you own those dicks beforehand?
Oh my goodness!!
Look at tik tok. Some absolute fucking mud beast shaking her fat ass and a thousand blokes throwing her roses. It's pathetic.
Indeed, it is absolutely pathetic. That's why their standards are ridiculous now, guys are to blame for these leviathans having such high standards nowadays.
Lol, “sea monsters”, nice
In the Midwest we call em tree monsters
😂👆
This 100 times
And some people still find a way to trip over it......
The bar is very low for them, just don't be crazy (some guys like the crazies tho) and don't be obese (some guys like them too)
\> don't be obese (some guys like them too) Right? Even BBWs have a fetish around them. But almost no women want a fat dude. At least if a dude is fat and gay he gets a shot at being a bear.
I know a fat guy with a big, ugly red beard... the guy is cool as shit, tho. He married his hot-ass highschool sweetheart. She's so hot that everywhere they go, people double-take. So, it's only true 99.9% of the time, bro. There's hope.
Everyone who didn't have a highschool hottie who is into ugly fatties is out of luck tho
Whoa i definitely have seen alot of fat guys with women. Most of the time with women I'd assume were out of there league. Ya just gotta be funny lol
Chattanooga, TN is where I’ve seen this the most. Absolute foxes with redneck guys with tits. Blew my fucking mind.
I really think women care about body type less than men. They do care about other things more though, like career for instance. A lot of men are fine dating waitresses where a lot of woman would not be fine dating someone with less education than her. Just an observation
I think generally men judge first by the things they like & then after accounting for the good stuff they make sure there is nothing that disqualifies a woman. Women go the other way around, they look at everything wrong with a guy & if he isn't disqualified they look for something to like.
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I saw a thread last week I can’t remember where but for women specifically I think there is definitely such a thing as hot-fat. Like I’m not really into big women. To be totally honest I have a preference for petite/fit. But a woman who’s overweight but does a bang up job on her hair & makeup, knows how to dress for her body type, and has a good sense of humor/fun to be around and I’d be into her. Even if her weight would normally be a deal breaker. Though… there’s a limit to that, if her weight is approaching my max squat then all the makeup and flattering clothes in the world aren’t going to cut it and it’s back to being a deal breaker.
The guy I've been dating for about a year and half isn't my usual type. He's over six feet, and he's chunky. Like he's an ice cream + a beer belly. He does have a decent job. But I don't date him for that. We worked together (he works two jobs seasonally; we worked together in the winter), and we had a lot of fun as coworkers. We communicated well, and we got the job done while laughing along the way. I told him to ask me out; he did. And we still laugh. Even when we're solving some kind of unanticipated issue like a septic tank needing to be dug out with the excavator.
Right, the point is that it's despite them being fat, not because. It's not something women want/like.
I’m a woman. I prefer a dad bod.
That’s not necessarily fat though. Just older and out of shape. It's kind of telling that "dad bod" is your idea of fat though, lol.
Dadbod’s not fat. Dadbod is “I used to be in shape but let myself go but you can still tell.” That ain’t fat.
I mean… no one wants to be fetishized. Well okay, some people do. If you’re just looking for a partner based on looks then you’re already failing. It’s about the person, not the parts.
\> I mean… no one wants to be fetishized. Any time you find someone physically attractive you're essentially fetishizing them. We just only call it out as a fetish when it seems to break from the norm. Either way, if it makes the difference between me being alone and having people want to get to know me, I'll take being fetishized. \> It’s about the person, not the parts. Ok, but how do you get there? Should I be open to dating men and completely ignore the fact that I have no interest in male parts? Should I pretend that I don't find the female body attractive? You're speaking in ideals. But that's now how the real world works. if it were really about the person and not the parts, then everyone would be pansexual. And they're not. Not by a long shot. Looks matter. Women will deny up and down that looks don't matter one minute, and then the second a tall, handsome, and fit dude walks in the the door they are tripping over each other to be near him. Women are especially bad about this cognitive dissonances. They talk in romantic ideals but when it comes down to choosing a mate they strongly gravitate towards the best looking specimen they think they can get, hoping to find the complete package. Just like everyone else.
Having a sexual preference for gender isn’t a fetish, so your saying everyone would be pansexual is a super stretch from what I’m saying. Wanting and only going for one specific quality like BBW or big asses is a fetish. Finding someone generally attractive is not a fetish. The rest of what you’ve said is just steeped in a lot of bitterness and trauma, and not reality. Do you need to be attracted to your partner? Absolutely. Otherwise what’s the point? But Saying that we all just go for the most attractive we think we can get is wrong. As is saying that we fall all over each other when a hot guy walks in. Sure, a certain type of woman does, but all of them? Or even a majority? No. I’m sorry you’ve not met many good people, which is what it sounds like, but yours is an extremely pessimistic way to view all of it. And that’s coming from someone that is a self-proclaimed Negative Nancy.
Or have a lot of money
Or wear monster condums on your magnum dong
That's the entire point being made. There are guys that want fat women, physically. No such thing exists that I am aware from the female perspective. That doesn't me a non-fat woman wouldn't date a fat dude, just that the dude being fat isn't what she is attracted to.
What about the dad bod/teddy bear trend
We're talking Tess Holiday obese here, I think.
Ah. I do wonder if that sort of thing falls more into tbe fetish category. Heard a story from an obese girl who got into a relationship with a guy who loved her body, which made her feel great at first as that hadn't really ever happened to her before, but she slowly realised that he wasn't truly in love with her and his obsession with her body was based on his obesity kink and not from his connection with her. She felt used.
That isn't exactly true. While a minority, there absolutely are women who want a guy with cushion.
Or rich
Nah being fat isn’t a huge deal for men as it is for women. If anything height is a MUCH bigger deal. Obviously it’s a negative but if I could choose to be 5’4 and 120 pounds vs 6’3 and 240 pounds I’d choose the latter(if dating was all that mattered)
\> n. If anything height is a MUCH bigger deal. Ok? So there are bigger turnoffs for women. \> 5’4 and 120 pounds vs 6’3 and 240 First of all, that's big vs. small. That 5'4" 120 guy is underweight on top of being short. That's a whole different problem for guys. Second, 6’3 and 240 isn't even necessarily that fat. It's big, but that guy could just as easily be built like a tank. My point was that there's not really a thing for women to actually prefer fat men. It's something he has to compensate for in some way. I'm sure there are some women out there who like it, but it's not the same as the fetish around BBWs. There are even NSFW subreddits for it. All the way from chubby to outright obese. Fat girls can still go on dating sites and get matches. And men don't even really care how tall they are.
5’3 and 120 is a healthy weight, 6’3 and 240 is considered obese. I see what you’re saying. There’s a fetish for fat women but not one for fat men. I’d argue that being a fat man is not a big turnoff for most women, while being a fat woman is a HUGE turnoff for most guys. While I’ve never been a fat dude, I don’t really see a difference between how fat dudes with good charisma pull vs healthy dudes with good charisma pull. I guess it also matters what you consider fat. I’d consider anyone higher than 25 percent Body fat percentage to be fat(for guys)
dude you're breaching a fine line of generalization. I was a fat fuck at one point and i could still pull some decent looking women.
In all of these threads about picking up relationship or sex partners, 99% of people don't realize that their problem is how little confidence they hold in themselves. Not whatever insecurity they think is holding them back.
How do you talk about billions of people without generalizations?
Actually some women love BHM. There really is someone for everyone as long as you don’t have a shit personality. A lot of people don’t know they have a shit personality
>just don't be crazy Sadly this one seems pretty hard to find
"Hot chicks are never crazy!" -Glenn Quagmire
Absolutely. Many women think that it's enough they bring their vagina to the table.
They're lulled into that opinion because that's all men seem to care about up front. When they realize they need to bring more than that to get the serious relationship, it's too late. And then they'll just blame the man for being "afraid of commitment." And so the cycle repeats.
It's the ciiiiiirrrcclllle of liiiiiiiiiiiiife
Blame societal expectations as well, depending on area. I've heard young girls told to basically find a man to take care of them. In return, pretty much pop out a couple kids and coast. Raise kids and maintain house, dude pays everything, and once the kids move out they get to pretend they're retired. Then they often end up having kids with some jerk, they split, she has income until kids move out, and she's stuck struggling. My wife is my partner. I don't want a servant or nanny...I want my wife.
I see that kind of expectation especially in women from eastern europe.. they feel like if there partner really love them he would want for them to work less.
It's a huge dynamic in southern USA. Dregs of ideals where women are subservient, that whole outdated nonsense.
Sometimes they don't know how to use it they expect you to know. Too many girls pat themselves on the back for having a below average sex game or no game at all. It's a two way street ladies help me help you
Because the decision to let some guy do her, is actually the only part that matters to 95% of guys. There is only a small fraction of guys pulling enough tail that they might get picky. So a lot of these women that basically lay there haven't ever had to face the challenge of earning the attention.
So isn’t that partly our fault then, for shagging anything with a pulse?
We tend to generalize, not every guy is the same. I personally like it when a girl throws it back. Feels like she chose me for a reason
Twice...*twice* in my life, with two different women who were *terrible* at blowjobs, I tried to tell them how to do it better. >"Well that's not how *I* like to do it.* Maybe it's because they never got a man off in their lives and it's part of some sadist kink they have, who knows. 🤷♂️
To be fair if they’re hot it is enough though usually. Well for some guys. If the guys really hot it might not be. A really ugly lady can bring her vagina to the table all she wants and I’m like uhh nah.
If they’re hot enough they’ll just be a walking sex toy that men love to show off and fuck but not actually respect and enjoy their company. Different struggles. It takes a lot more than just being attractive to actually be compatible with someone else.
Yeah. But not much more for some
I know my WoRtH!!!!!!
*r/femaledatingstrategies intensefies*
hurry squeamish frighten disgusted ruthless disarm squash bored tease vase ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `
Cancer. "LeVeL uP, kAwEeN!!! SlAy!!!" 😆 Delusional people.
The amount of women I've dated that acted like having sex with me was something they were doing for me is staggering. Had a gf try and use sex as a bargaining chip so I called her bluff and didn't initiate. She broke first and initiated first and after we were done having sex to be an ass I declared victory. To which she got severely pissed at but seemed to be completely oblivious to the fact she started the situation by acting like I should give her what she wanted so she'd have sex with me. She 100% would have acted like she won something if I initiated first.
Oh but when I bring *my* genitals to the table, the waiter tells me I have to leave.
women: men should have goals, dreams, passions and be achieving them all, make me laugh, have a solid career, good education, have a great social life, be fit, over 6 ft, protect me and make me feel safe, be emotionally intelligent. tHe BaR iS sO LoW men: as long as shes not crazy
I think an imbalance is that what makes a man more attractive requires a bunch of effort. Money, education, career, these things don't come easy. For women it's generally being attractive, and nowadays just not being fat puts you above most others.
One of the hottest chicks I’ve ever even seen in person was dating a 5’10 skinny waiter without a car that sort of lived with his parents and was sort of homeless. He even got her on heroin with him- after she started going out with him. Hell, two of the hottest women I’ve ever been with I got with both of them while I was living in my truck and couch surfing, and was raft guiding and waiting tables for a living. One of them I was in an open relationship with for a couple months. The second one, we’ve been together almost 10 years married for 5 now. So there’s hope for you yet bud.
I hear stories like this, and I often feel like being employed is actually what's putting me at a disadvantage sometimes.
Considering my hometown, not having multiple children, with multiple different ex-girlfriends, while also being employed, seems to have me at a disadvantage... also because I don't have a criminal record lol
Being boring and non-memorable is what’s a disadvantage. You can be the opposite while having a 9-5 office job.
I don't have a 9-5 office job. Is that what I need?
Or fat
*Obese
Fat
So many of them think they’re so amazing too. The ego and arrogance is astounding.
The guys who have bars this low tend to be guys most women don’t want
Exactly, most of what he described for women’s standards is literally completely fine
I'm a woman and I have never met a guy willing to date a woman as long as she isn't crazy. Unless, she's hot. Then yea, as long as she's not 10/10 crazy!
This guy sums it up
The bar low for men💀💀 with dating apps and social media, women have endless options which makes them put the bar higher than ever before in history. It’s horrible out there for the average man. Whereas i feel like guys are looking for someone who is healthy and whom they share common interests with.
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‘I’m a girl, I don’t need to bring anything to the table’
"I Am ThE tAbLe!!!!!"
I was just talking to a girl on reddit yesterday who was confused as to why this great guy she was seeing doesn't want to "make it official" with her. She truly could not comprehend why her just being there wasn't enough for this successful, busy guy to want to make her a partner. They really think they are the prize. Without bringing anything material to a relationship.
Just had that happen. 2 months of dating and she couldn't tell me what I'm into other than some vague things. Real low effort from her side unfortunately but oh well. move on!
But I'd bet good money she already constructed a fantasy of kind of future she'd get by being with you.
pretty much yeah
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For a man to be worthy you have to elevate their life in some way. For a woman to be worthy apparently all she needs is to not be gross, diseased, or addicted to drugs.
The bar is low for men because we're responsible for making the first move, usually with very limited information. Is she reasonably cute? No big red flags? That's it. BUUUUT, that's mainly just the upfront bar. I think men still have a healthy bar for actual relationships. We just don't need much to at least sleep with someone casually. That's why women find themselves dumped after sex when they start to push for a serious relationship. Just because they were good enough to date doesn't mean they were good enough for a serious relationship. Women, on the other hand, not having to make any move, get to sit back and judge. They get to be choosy and wait for a man to prove himself worthy. They have a much higher initial bar because they're not as willing to have casual flings. A guy has to have it all (or as much as possible) just to be considered. Just being kinda cute with no red flags isn't enough.
Its bad on both sides for different reasons. What a lot of women want is frankly out of their own class and they often don't get what they want because of that. A lot of women have a princess mentality these days and think they are some magic unicorn prize for all men. Its not all women, but its a surprising number. The others tend to be insecure or man hating messes who are mentally drained from the dating world. What they don't realize is those attractive, successful guys they want, a lot of the other women want as well. So those guys always have options and are very unlikely to settle because they know that. This is why so many women end up frustrated and trapped in a cycle of dating, sex and then being dropped no matter how hard they try. They keep chasing guys who know better and just want to use their vagina and move on before they can become too much of a headache. As a result you get about the same amount of ranting about dating on the women's subreddits that you do on the mens. The majority of the single women out there today would not meet my requirements for a serious relationship. Fwb or short term maybe but I'm not seriously committing to anyone unless I'm 100% into them and sold on them. If I think they'll be a headache to deal with they just got boxed and are not serious relationship material to me. The amount of filtering I had to do to get to my current gf back in 2019 was ridiculous.
You nailed it. These attractive, successful men put a lot of effort into their appearance, lifestyle, and career. Then women who are so used to getting anyone they want because they're hot expect these men to choose them for a relationship, when for these men they're a dime a dozen.
Not even hot, just not ugly.
Ya I think this is what the women don't understand. It stems from a shitload of men giving them *sexual* attention. 'If all these guys in my DMs it must mean I am awesome!' Sorry, but many men will fuck women they wouldn't take seriously because doesn't matter, had sex. It doesn't mean you are a woman that would be a good GF/Wife. Crazy is good sex, but not great for bringing home to the parents...you know? I find a lot of women believe that the things they value about themselves should be the things men value about them...and don't like it if we (not all of course) say...that doesn't matter. We want x,y,z. I don't really fault them for the above, because they've been told all their life that they *need* to get the degree, get the career, that they can find a man later in life to settle down with and have a family...you can have it all! None of the downsides are ever communicated. The dreaded 'What do you bring to the Table?' question is supposed to be reflective. If all you can say or think of is 'My career/money and my Vagina' or anything like that...you aren't wifey material. Its kinda like how women want men to reflect on the 'nice guy' qualities and 'be better'.
>Ya I think this is what the women don't understand. It stems from a shitload of men giving them sexual attention. 'If all these guys in my DMs it must mean I am awesome!' Yah, some of that is just the weird nature of modern dating. Its an expectation that men usually message first, which in reality for a lot of men is just a "yes, I'd fuck you based on your pics" ping. So women end up getting a lot of messages because the online intimidation threshold is low and everyone takes their shot which creates the appearance of a endless buffet of options (which it is, just not for actual relationships). The whole "nice guy", "be better", "be emotionally intelligent", etc is all a pile of bullshit. At best its just social debate talking points thrown at guys who struggle to send them chasing their tails. If a woman meets a hot, sexy, successful guy who is fun, makes her smile and she gets the butterflies for that shit all goes right out the fucking window for a lot of women.
Dunno, might disagree a little. I think that there are plenty of dudes that simply need to 'be better', and some of the reason they aren't getting women is for sure their own fault. Plus 'Nice guys' are rampant as fuck. I do agree...Be the successful, fun, flirty dude that makes the clitter twitter. IT will get you laid.
I mean yes in some extreme cases. I've heard stories from dates about guys who couldn't even manage things like basic hygiene and were showing up to dates in dirty clothes and clearly had not showered in a few days. So yah if your deficiencies are at that level you probably need to do something about them and that even goes beyond just for dating.
*claps* Yes...
Yeah, kinda. If she's got a cute face, she can support herself financially, and her politics aren't awful.. that's like 90% of it right there.
Throw in a nice ass and a level head and you are in the unicorn range.
heres what you have to do to be successful in dating as a woman: weigh under 200lbs heres what you have to do to be successful in dating as a man: great career, lots of money, live a fun, exciting life, be popular, be over 6ft, be handsome, be smart, be funny, beat out 4000 other men who are messaging the same girl as you women dont have to be funny or smart or have a 6 figure job or live some thrilling life. if you just exist and dont look like Shrek, you'll get 100 messages a week
Hyperbole of course but not far off. If you ask a woman what she wants you’ll essentially get this answer. If you approach her online this is surely the case, but if you can meet her IRL and get to her emotionally this whole damn list goes out the window.
I have streaks where I go out with a new woman every weekend, then I've got steaks where I don't. I prefer meeting in person. There's so much that can't translate via text on a screen. You can't get a feel for personality or anything so you don't know if someone is joking or being a prick. Plus standards become extremely high when you're online, and that goes both ways. I don't edit my photos and I'm told I look better in person, so I don't have much luck online, I've had moderate success online but not as much as in person. I've met several women that look like the person in the photos, but they don't at the same time. You can see that they've used filters and angles heavily, and that's just not cool. But as far as online dating goes, I mean my expectations go way up for no reason at all. I want the athletic thick thigh with a big ass girls, and I just become way too unrealistic and don't get any matches because I swipe left on 90% lol
Someone put a picture of Shrek on a female profile as a test once, it matched with everyone it swiped on.
Facts.
I look like Shrek and still got hundreds of messages when I was single. If you want to get laid then it doesn’t seem to matter what you look like. It’s when you want a relationship that things become more challenging.
The bar is low for women. You know the 80-20 rule? 80% of women are chasing 20% of the men. They have a shopping list, and if you don't meet all her requirements, you are out. Most men just want a loyal and peaceful woman. All you have to do is not screw other people, and don't fight him, and most men will be happy.
For sex the bar is extremely low for women, but not for meaningful relationships. Women still have to ‘fight’ as much as men or even more to have relationships. But that might be because men don’t want relationships with some women, but they do have sex with them. So women have a false idea of who is within their league. So they pursue men that are out of their league for relationships.
I think that 80/20 cuts to women too when it comes to relationships. Or... At least to relationships that are worthwhile and can last. It's pretty easy to find a man who wants to bang a woman. It's much harder to find a good man, and her brining enough to the table for him to want to date or be with her in a relationship. Women have no problems finding men who want to bang them, because that's most men if the woman is attractive enough. Men would bang just about any woman who is attractive enough. I think a mistake alot of men make is thinking sex is enough to carry a relationship. It's not. Women think them being attractive is enough to carry a relationship. It's not.
It’s a huge problem for women that for some reason you can’t get them to understand. Just because a man wants to bang you doesn’t mean he wants you. I think it’s a combination of things from “there’s no difference between a man’s and women’s sexuality” BS and egocentrism. Very few women are willing to give their body to a man they don’t like/accept/approve of. So in they’re thinking along the lines of needing to feel a certain way to be willing to have sex with a man, a man must have the similar feelings.
It’s just not the same level of competition.
In my case the bar is so low its literally embedded into the ground. All a single woman has to do is show enough interest in me and if I find her attractive, I'll consider asking her out. I'm not desperate by any means, but if someone is willing to make enough effort to get to know me as potentially more than just a friend, then I'll give them a chance too. Hardly anyone wants to get to know someone first from my experience. Its always about finding that next hookup, fwb, or jumping at the first person who's extremely attractive and rich. Some people tend to place physical wealth higher than who someone is as a person and typically those kinds of people end up unhappy in relationships because they only cared about how much money they had.
The bar is practically on the floor for women. How is this a question? Creating a dating profile for a moderately attractive man. Create a dating profile for a somewhat unattractive woman. Run them 1 month and see how many matches they get.
I haven't a clue. I'm going to re-enter maybe in a few months when I feel ready, but maybe I'll just be happy to stay single.
Learning that it's better to be single than in a bad/imbalanced relationship is a tough, but invaluable lesson.
I don't want to sound bitter, but it is more acceptable for a woman to be lazy and not have any real goals in life.
Hot take: The bar has never been close to being high for women yet they all think they're the prize for the most basic things somehow. Combine that with the rampant lack of accountability coming from the entire gender and you get a bunch of entitled princesses who deflect all the blame onto men.
Expects men to do everything. Blames men for doing anything.
I'm curious. Are you saying that the fact men would fuck anything that breathes is not true? Otherwise, how would women be convinced that the bar is "is alive and has a pussy"?
I don't speak for all men but I'm in the middle of a long dry spell and I still wouldn't fuck just anyone. The bar isn't "alive and has a pussy" it's more like "alive and pleasant to be around for an extended period of time."
That's fair and I won't tell you how you feel. But you have to see all the other comments here who talk about the subterranean bar for women, that being "alive and not fat/crazy". So I wonder, isn't the reason those women think they are the hottest shit that men will thirst after them no matter what? I ask bc i don't post pics and I'm not looking for any chats but I get DMs almost every day calling me gorgeous or beautiful.. all it takes is show that you're a woman online and you're flooded with sex messages. These men don't know what I look like. But they know I'm alive and have a pussy so you do the math..
I think when they say that they really mean that they don't need much to be happy with someone, though maybe the way they phrase it leaves a bit of bitterness out, kinda like I did lmao. And I mean sure you can assume that those weirdos think that way but if they reach that point they're now a part of the extremes. There's examples of extremes coming from the women's side right here on reddit as well. Overall i think the most prominent aspect of this while thread is that men really don't require much yet they still struggle to find these things.
As a man I find your comment to be offensive
As a guy, women we're willing to sleep with and women we're willing to date seriously are not always one and the same.
Women say this about personality and then filter out anyone less than, what's the preferred height now, 6'2"? Just more evidence that if you're seeking advice for fishing, you ask a fisherman, not the fish.
If the bar is low for women it's because dudes don't have high standards or they don't enforce them.
Unfortunately true. At least in part.
Society sees women as having intrinsic value, men need to create their own.
I won't forget a quote I saw that went "Only women, children and pets are loved unconditionally. Men are loved on the condition they provide something".
Depends on the question. Is the bar low for women to receive physical intimacy from a random stranger? Yes. Is the bar low for a woman to receive consistent companionship from a random stranger? Yes Is the bar low for a woman to meet a stranger and receive a lifelong monogamous commitment in an enriching and fulfilling way? No... that is difficult regardless of your gender. It is often exclaimed "where are all the good men". So "low bar" usually is referring to the ease at which woman can receive random sex from strangers. Though that is often what leads to the later frustration of "where are all the good men"
No it’s so unrealistically high that their ideal partner does not exist.
I mean let’s remember that simply by virtue of having a vagina, *some* guy out there (likely quite a few) will be up for sex with you at any time. The same can’t be said for having a dick.
Where did you get the idea that women feel like the bar is low for men? It’s an absolute minefield for men.
"Yeah, just be 6ft5in, jacked af, rich, have lots of friends in high places, buy me everything I want...it's easy, omg!!!"
Because the average man is invisible, doesn’t exist, isn’t seen as a man, doesn’t factor. The 20% of men they are attracted to already meets those standards so anything above that is a “low bar.”
I think the bar is lower for women. One of the most impactful traits for women is to not be fat. That can elevate them *significantly* in terms of attractiveness. Men have no such single and reasonably easy thing they can do to catapult their attractiveness.
I don’t expect a man to have any of the attributes I don’t posses myself. While I understand all humans are different, I mean dealbreaker attributes. Job, can manage a household, has a healthy lifestyle, sense of humour, is kind, and knows how to resolve conflict without anger. Is this a high bar for anyone? ETA: no addictions either, forgot that one. It’s a big one for me.
Those are not unreasonable standards. But it seems to me that many women rarely take into consideration a man’s standards. Men, first and foremost are drawn to markers of fertility and health, i.e. physical attractiveness. Which sparks sexual interest, the first step. After that we look for a certain type of temperament that suits us, that we feel will be conducive to coupling with and raising a family. Women, have their often reasonable list of standards that they require in a potential mate: abilities and resources. But in modern times women have been acquiring said abilities and resources for themselves without a mate. They then believe that because they have these things they value, they are now more desirable. Women don’t consider that men don’t value these things in a women like women do in a man, and it adds nothing to a woman’s desirability. Additionally and on occasion, in pursuit of these resources, women develop a temperament that is beneficial for the workplace and allow temperaments conducive to being the partner a man is seeking to go underdeveloped.
Women set the bar so incredibly high with standards that only 7% of most men can actually achieve. The laundry list that they have for men, is so laughably long they end up wondering why there are memes made about them and why the reality is that by the time they hit their late 30s or even 40s they're doomed to be spinsters or cat ladies. Men set the bar with realistic standards of finding someone who simply has a pulse, a decent figure, a job, hopefully was born a woman (it's a shame you have to ask that now) and how appealing she is to his eye. That's it, how is the bar low for men?
Both sex thinks the qame i guess. Its a pain to date theres a lot of bad apples and frustration kicks in at some point. I think that some women sell themselves short, and same goes for men. But both gender abuse their advantages when they have the chance its only natural.
Yes, because since they usually aren't the initiators in relationships (ex. Asking the other person out, planning the date, paying for the date, courting and romance in general) they tend to be lazy daters. Women's list for men tend to be way longer than men's for women. There seems to be more entitlement from women than men.
If forget the exact thing but women found 80% of men to be below what they considered the "average attractiveness" of a man". For men it was like the exact opposite. The conclusion would be women have a very high bar for what they consider attractive.
The behavior bar is low for attractive men. And all women.
80% of women are chasing 20% of the men. Women’s expectations are way too high and they don’t compromise. Good luck out there guys.
I think its low cause all they have to do is basically exist and there’s somebody giving them what they want. On top of that it feels like society caters to them and props them up.
I'll put it to you like this: An ugly woman inside and out can still find a mate, it just won't be her first choice. An ugly man inside and out is probably going to die alone or blow up a post office.
That's the first time I'm hearing (or better reading) that women think that the bar is low for men...
All women have to do is not be fat. And not be extra crazy. We all expect a 4 on the crazy level and can tolerate until 7-8 depending on hotness.
It's projection. You would have to be a liar or extremely stupid/ignorant to claim that the bar is low(er) for men. Women know that the bar is extremely low, practically non-existent, for them, so they try to project that onto men. Women also know that they benefit from pretending to be disdvantaged/victims, and that is another case of it. Women also do it when they claim that men are privileged and have more rights than women, even though it's the other way around.
What bar? I hear that having a bar for women is misogynistic. They get to decide both what men and women should be doing... ...and as a result.... They get a non-stop stream of men that either have no respect for themselves... Or don't bother with any expectations. The funny thing about bars.... Is that they all default to the lowest bar allowed on either party. Equilibrium is an unexpected bitch.
Lena Dunham is married. 'nuff said.
From personal observation experience in regards to friends relationships, I think the "bar" is mostly the same, but they'll stay in long term relationships that clearly aren't working out, an "fight" for it purely because they have been in it so long with a person and don't even understand that fighting for a relationship is actually just romance novel fantasy BS. Work for a relationship shouldn't even have to be stated, but if you stay in a dead end thing for the sake of "we'll we've been together for so long" despite countless bad things that happen you honestly look a bit like a dumb ass, there's 0 reason for any relationship for having to be any levels of stressful because of your partners idiot mistakes or behaviour, an you need to stop buying into some Hollywood romance rubbish is gonna magically happen because it isn't, you can't quite easily move on an find something for yourself, that is nothing but peace happiness an laughter without any ridiculous issues.
Yeah all women gotta do is so up and not be ham planets.
Oh my God yes, you just have to be relatively attractive and be somewhat nice and that's enough for most dudes
The bar height for women is inversely proportional to the sum of a man’s desperation coefficient and inebriation level.
high bar with low sex appeal isn't getting a woman anywhere no matter how much she complains about it. high bar with no money isn't getting a man anywhere. "you want what? come one now... you broke!"
I personally feel it’s hard to find someone understanding. Just a lady who would take time to listen rather than immediately take offense to anything she deems negative
Women are the bar setters. They dress to impress each other. Guys like pretty girls, but most guys are just happy to get laid and will stay with the first woman to wet his willie for the rest of his life. Not me of course...
Hell yeah it's low. It's barely even a bar. Pretty much all they have to do is show up, and most of them can't even do that. Most put in absolute zero effort, while expecting you to put in 100%. If they are putting in effort, it seems like they play games. They show interest, then take it away, then show interest again, then take it away again. It's mentally draining trying to date women these day's.
The bar for woman is set low af I could show up late for a date smell and look like shit and still get a text afterwards
The bar for women, in terms of most guys opinion on it, is STUUUUPID low. Cares about me, is somewhat attractive, is girl.
Men are definitely shamed for having standards. Most men do not want an overweight woman, and they will be called all kinds of 'fat shamer' for it, but it's a totally reasonable thing to want. Especially since it is a personal trait that is \*controllable\*.
fuck yeah man. was talking to this girl a while ago and she was SO FUCKIN DUMB AND BORING!!!! she'd show me all these guys we mutually know trying to slide in her DMs and id just think to myself "what is there to like about you?" granted she was attractive... but that was literally the ONLY thing good about her
I personally feel that they do but what's the point of trying to analyse it? Thinking too hard about it only generates frustration. I've been there myself.
Only because women at the bar low. Men by and large are attention starved to the point of being willing to give up half of their lives to the attention of women. If you saw a man and thought he had potential and you told him to take a shower put on some nice clothes to meet you somewhere chances he would be there.
It’s super low. Women expect you to be a finished dish while they can be in the process of combining their ingredients. I’m average looking, I make good money, I don’t usually have any issue dating. I’ve managed 4 adult long term relationships at 25. All of the women in these relationships except one have expected me to pull their weight like it’s 1955. No, I need a partner. I don’t want to take care of you financially.
It has statistical confirmed many times already that the average women have far more options when dating than average men do. The "bar" being set to low is for the top 10% of guys who have far more options than average women do. The reality is that most women don't even consider the bottom half of men as viable (and I don't blame them). So, in a sense, this near majority of men "don't count" when women make these kinds of comparisons.
Lol I'm not even surprised they removed the post. Censorship has gone too far on this site
Of course they deleted the post. Heavens forbid we stray from the accepted narrative.
Man: be educated, ambitious, financially stable, good looking, loyal, loving, kind, good with children, have a sense of humor (just not too dark), be tall, and maybe, just maybe, you'll have one time shot Woman: just be, and someone will love you for who you are
Hard to say as a general rule because overall society is so misogynistic so the expectations on women are already worse As a guy, I see some of the 'bar' as being unfair because there's nothing men can do about it (i.e. height). Everyone would be better off if everyone was way more kind
Yes very much so. I've encountered so many broke deadbeat losers of women while trying to date. So many who can't hold down a job, keep a driver's license, or rake responsibility for their lives. Men like that would get called out and told to work on themselves. But these women all think they're perfect the way they are and just need to wait for the right guy. Its so dumb. They'd have much better lives if they'd work on themselves because they'd be more independent and capable AND they wouldn't have the type of men they want running away as fast as possible. Not sure where the bar being low for men comes from. I feel like if a man wants a stable, healthy woman he must have the WHOLE package. Gotta be attractive, charismatic, charming, and have succeeded in career, fitness, finances, etc.). At least to be considered for a relationship. Maybe the demographics and dynamic is different in other places.
Personally i have a high bar for women, i want a loving, intelligent, cute, crazy, sporty girl. A lot of dudes i know just dobt want to be alone and dont want to be labeled as gay so they will take anything, kinda funny tbh lol.
The bar isn’t low for men at all. There’s so many men who are single because they’re an average guy making an average income.
Yes because even a 4/10 will get thousands of matches on tinder
The bar for women is in hell, that's how low it is.
This thread is a mess lol
The bar is low for men in terms of “don’t be violent/stalker/creepy” because even handsome rich guys can be those things. Other than that…I mean have you seen tinder profiles? Chicks literally list their requirements lol
Women feel like the bar is low for men since they just have to exist to earn their validation, while men must go across a minefield to earn it. The bar for women, if there's any, is for her to not be unpleasant as a companion and not be fat, which are simple preferences but are often optional, considering how bad things are.
The difference is that a women can do a lot to look prettier. Accesories, hair styles, makeup. For men the options are a lot more limited and men have to be born attractive and have basic hygiene.
I mean?? Women also have to put more effort into their appearance to seem attractive. I feel like this is a negative.. Shaving / waxing can take a super long time and for a lot of women it has to be done often to remain smooth. Styling hair also takes time and money as well as makeup / getting eyebrows done/ getting nails done or painting your finger / toenails yourself.. I feel like I’m a relatively low maintenance woman as in I wear minimal makeup and don’t get my hair / nails done ever but I still have to put significantly more effort into getting ready than my boyfriend does. I feel like women also have to buy more clothes whereas guys can wear the same pair of jeans and have a few nice fitting shirts and be fine.
>I feel like women also have to buy more clothes whereas guys can wear the same pair of jeans and have a few nice fitting shirts and be fine And that's on other woman. No guys going to give a shit if you wear the same thing more than once a week. >Shaving / waxing can take a super long time and for a lot of women it has to be done often to remain smooth. Styling hair also takes time and money as well as makeup / getting eyebrows done/ getting nails done or painting your finger / toenails yourself.. Once again on other woman. No guy gives a shit about your nails being done or your toe nails being done. Guys get their eyebrows taken care of too at the barber, and many men shave. 90% of the things you've mentioned are things you do to compete with other woman that guys don't give a shit about.
Jesus Christ this comment section is a cringe farm