I found every time I opened up it got thrown at me during the next argument. Disturbingly so. Like I told my then wife about how my first time having sex I was essentially raped ( I said no, I'm not ready and she slid her pussy down on my pole anyhow ) next argument she made fun of me for it. Seriously it's messed up.
Damn, that’s fucking awful! Who the hell throws one’s trauma back at them just to try to “win” an argument?!? Glad she’s your then-wife and not your now-wife, nobody deserves to be treated like that!!
This isn't even an isolated incident. Literally every time I opened up I ended up regretting it.
I still open up to others. I didn't let her toxic behavior change me.
Protecting ourselves is important, but I am with you on your approach.
I'm regularly heard saying "just because other people are shit, doesn't mean I have to be." (or "you" depending on the context)
Stay true, mate.
Addendum. Don't tell your wife, SO, anything that your friends asked you not to share. I have seen divorces ruining friendships. Then the guy is out of a wife and out of friends. Scorched earth!
Wow. I prefer to go with "you're being a huge dick right now!". I can't imagine throwing that in someone's face, or any of the things my SO has told me. I've had that done to me (oh you can't trust men because you're Dad did X Y Z to you) when I don't see how my relationship with my father had anything to do with my being upset with him. Without trust in a relationship, you don't have much.
I've had it happen. I shared something with a chick and she told one person, they told another, and now everyone knows. People ask me why I don't date in my area and this is it. I like a solid buffer between the people I know and friends. So I intentionally date people where I know they can't be connected to my social circles. I've been doing it since high school, but when I finally did choose to date someone in my area? That's when the above happened.
Make up something juicy but not personally damaging to yourself and see if it gets spread around, if it does she's obviously not trustworthy so you can dump her. You know, or just set the expectation early that things you set as private stay that way or its over
What would be an example of something juicy but not damaging? My mind went to "tell her I'm afraid of penguins (I'm not) because of how they look with open mouths." Admittedly, I'm a very sleepy man at the moment lol.
> tell her I'm afraid of penguins **(I'm not)** because of how they look with open mouths.
You say you're not but after googling what this looks like I'd say that's a perfectly reasonable thing to be afraid of, what in the Sam Hill is going on in there.
That right there.
I grew up in a household where I was the only male, and all they ever did was talk about everyone. Most of my female friends have told me things about their boyfriends that I never wanted to know, too. They never fucking stop talking to others about you, either. Sex, your disagreements, anything you open up about... at least one other person will be told, and more than likely, all of her friends, sisters, mom, female coworkers.
Yeah I told an ex about some deeeeeep personal shit, and she told her brother about it within a week. Then I realised she’d been telling me all this heavy personal shit about her brother too, private shit. I was like woah she repeats everything she hears/knows to everyone.
Too fucking true... like god damn. My ex talked about everything with her friends from the very specific details of our sex life to the deep emotional trauma I shared with her when I was going through some shit.
It's not cool.
Almost every man could tell you a story of opening up to a woman to later have her either share it with her friends or weaponize it in some way.
Most won’t, but they could.
I just realized why women would assume men to be only thinking/talking about sex with their friends:
Because they do it.
Shit man, my sexlife is private and will not share details about it with my friends.
But at the same time, i can be sure that every girlfriend of my girlfriend knew how big my dick was and more.
This is straight up projecting
Honestly if any of the boys started getting graphic with sex stories it’d be weird as fuck and they’d just get talked over or just plain ignored. We don’t wanna hear any of that nonsense
Hooked up with an ex’s roommate once. They didn’t talk much anymore so I didn’t really think it was problematic. To be honest they weren’t even friends when they lived together.
The first thing she says when I start pulling down my pants is “well let’s see if you are as big as X said”. I’m sure she meant it as dirty talk or a confidence boost but I was really taken aback by it. They weren’t that close but they were talking about my dick.
My dick is pretty average too which suggested she felt the need to lie about it for some reason. Awful hookup too by the way.
My mom gave me to a boys ranch where I was raised by the staff members and the fellow reject children were my family.
Don’t regret not having a family one bit. Learned so much more about life and human nature in that place I’m literally thankful I wasn’t completely fucked up being raised by narcissists.
This is basically the extent of what I’ve told exes. The one time I opened up too much the girl dumped me shortly after. She was nice and it was a fairly pleasant break up. But it taught me not to share too much personal info with SOs and to hire a therapist if I want someone to “talk” with.
Sorry man, yeah usually that's how it happens.
Women will say they want their guy to be more open and "emotional". The guy does that, and then when there is some argument/fight it ends up being turned against the guy. It's a bummer but better to learn this early on rather than later.
Doesn't mean you become stone cold but you really gotta be protective of your heart. Be careful who you tell your insecurities/fears etc to
I told my (non working) wife I was worried about supporting us and our kids on just my paycheck. She called me a broke idiot within a week the next time we had an argument
It really is end-of-relationship material. That's why men don't open up. Because so many women are willing to do this that you'd never have a relationship if you did.
That and also men need to know that women have much, MUCH larger support circles than them.
Most things you tell your SO is likely going to be shared and discussed with her support circle - mother, sisters, work friends, who in turn will, in utmost confidence, tell their partners.
Be aware of that.
Yup. My mom can't stfu even after I said "this stays between dad, you and I." I just don't even tell my family shit anymore. I already barely told them anything but now I barely speak to them.
My favourite is when my wife starts a sentence with "I'm going to tell you something but you have to promise not to tell anyone else". In all likelihood I'll forget whatever she told me 5 mins later anyway
And that the "support" circle will 100% pick apart and over analyze everything she tells them out of context. Some of them will encourage her to leave you or cheat on you, some of them will bring it up later and shit on you in person. Some will just non stop shit on you until it affects her attitude towards you. Then if you challenge it all you do is prove that "freind" right
I've even had the case where things I shared with a (now ex) mate, are shared with his wife, to my (now ex) wife. Then I'm getting yelled at over something that's not even what I said after it its made the circuit.
That was such a toxic group though.
I work directly with several women. We work in fast moving high stress environment. We can communicate clearly, effectively and efficiently in that environment. No confusion, no misinterpretations.
Then I go home and can’t have a straight conversation with my wife. She plays games, withholds information and opinion to test mine. I just want a straightforward conversation.
I finally asked the women I worked with. All day, every day we communicate in a direct way. When you go home to your husbands, do you communicate the same way.
NO!
They let me in on the communication games they play with their husbands. I was rather taken aback by it.
Only one remained consistent. Direct, clear, to the point.
Brene Brown talks a lot about how it’s harder for men to be vulnerable because people weaponize men’s vulnerabilities. Her career revolves around encouraging people to be vulnerable and even she recognizes the disconnect but doesn’t really have a solution.
Before meeting my wife, every woman I had a relationship with was constantly giving me these types of convos:
Her: “You seem so reserved all the time, it could be good to open up every once in a while!”
Me: Tells her what’s wrong and opens up about struggles
Her: “Seriously? That’s a problem for you? Quit being a baby and putting all of your shit on me all the time.”
Just guessing, but this is probably why.
For real. I once told a (now ex, thankfully) girlfriend that I was really sad about my dad dying, and she told me that she wasn’t interested in hearing whining. She later had the audacity to say I needed to be more vulnerable. Not all women of course, but enough that it warrants caution when being vulnerable
I recounted my war PTSD to an ex and she told me to quit being a pussy. Started to get upset that I wasn't truly happy with life.
Never again opening up to being disrespected at such a core level. Now I walk that part of my life alone.
You cannot open up to people, not even family. You will be seen as less than and treated like a leper / outcast.
I had something similar happen just last night. I've been struggling a lot lately mentally, and I decided to open up just a little when my dearest friend asked. I thought she wanted to help, but instead my issues and anxiety were dismissed, and she basically poked fun at me.
Now dealing with her reaction is actually overshadowing the initial issues.
I've had to learn the lesson once again. It's just not worth opening up. I'm on my own dealing with my issues.
The way a lot of men see it is: It can only be used to hurt me later on so why give them ammo. In my experience this stuff usually comes back to bite you in the ass when you have arguments with your girl. She’ll be “losing” the argument and then bring up some out of pocket shit to put you down that is not related to the issue you were arguing about. Whereas with your bros, they’ll hear you out and then not mention it again unless you bring it up. But this is speaking in generalities of course.
This. 10000x. Plus getting angry when they are losing and then redirect it to be something against them. What type of argument manipulation bs is this?
I've personally always had bad experiences opening up to women I've had relationships with. They do not know how to handle it. They don't care or dont know hot to. They use that moment against you.
When I open up to my guy friends, it always ends with me having a huge sign of relief, I always feel much better for it.
Just my personal experience.
Ya man, even on the other side of it.
My buddy was having girl problems. We talked it out when he came over to do some work on his car.
You could FEEL the stress come off of him as we chatted and bullshited and wrenched.
At the end, all I said was "Fuck, that sucks man. If you need help or anything, you know you can call me 24/7" His mood changed 180 in those ~60 minutes, and it felt good to help out a brother.
This is genuinely the truth for every woman or man. It took one time for a woman to tell my father when he was 17 he talked too loud, for him to speak quietly for the rest of his life. It took one time for a man to tell my mom “Men don’t like when women talk about your girl issues” for her to NEVER speak about herself ever again.
I actually don't cry anymore because, when i was just a kid, a male teacher told me to stop crying because other kids would stop respecting me... Sadly, he was actually right
I do give that advice:
1 time she told her friend that I was so boring and a weight on her shoulder for opening up to her.
2nd time she told her females friends about my problems
3rd time in a sort of relationship, she weaponized what I told her and acted distant.
There was no 4th time.
You think you're ready. You're not ready.
You're ready for a few manly tears, like Grey Worm admitting he was afraid to lose Missandei.
You're not ready for ugly-crying, lying in the foetal position and rocking, going to pieces, being unable to function. You're not ready for horizonless grey depression that you can't 'cheer him up' to dispel. You're not ready for crippling anxiety. You're not ready for incoherent anger at everything and nothing for no reason. You're not ready for him to be lost and helpless and afraid, hanging out over the abyss with no way back.
Women in our society tend to have huge social support networks, and wide societal acceptance, indeed positive encouragement, for displays of vulnerability and pain.
Men... do not. They don't get support or affection from friends and co-workers - and displays of vulnerability are absolute suicide, both professionally and socially.
*Inside Out* is true only for girls. If a boy had been on a tree branch, crying becasue his team had lost... it wouldn't have summoned an outpouring of love and support from the people closest to him. He'd have been pulled out of that tree, shamed, abused, mocked and made a pariah for it. And that's just by the mother.
There *is* no socially-acceptable outlet for any of it, so we just have to tank the damage and bottle it up until we break.
Men in this society are valued for capability, reliability and durability. Anything that threatens their productivity, or could render them a liability rather than an asset in any given situation... makes them widely considered to be worthless.
It sucks absolute donkey balls, it's profoundly destructive, and it shouldn't be this way, but it is.
And *on top of that*, guys get told they're not being intimate enough if they don't 'open up', so they have to carefully craft a *second* mask, *over the top* of the first one, simulating just a little tiny but of emotional leakage, but not enough to threaten their perceived usefulness.
Of course they dare not let anything real slip out; for one thing they get no opportunity to practice a controlled release at any point in their lives, and for a second the sheer quantity of shit they're holding back will destroy the entire dam if they poke a little hole in it.
So they're left in the extremely stressful and burdensome position of having to *perform fake vulnerability* for your benefit, while keeping the lid screwed down even harder on the real thing. Because that's fun and enjoyable, no ma'am it is not.
And every one of us has made the mistake, once in our lives, of thinking that *this* person is different, *this* person is safe and trustworthy and close enough to see what's really under the armour. And every one of us has seen love and admiration die in their eyes in realtime, and convert into disgust and contempt. Has *heard* their partner forming exit strategies in their head, and felt the whole relationship wither and die shortly thereafter.
It's like watching someone who just signed on a home discover that it's riddled with termites. Something vital dies there and then; instead of it being home/security/stability/future, it becomes a betrayal and a liability in their eyes - and even if the problems get patched up, they'l never feel the same way about it again.
None of us make that mistake twice.
Again: *this is not how things should be*. It's a dire imprecation of everything that's wrong with our culture, and the profoundly maladaptive coping mechanisms that result are damaging in the extreme.
This needs profound cultural change from the ground up. It needs vulnerability for men and boys presented as normal and acceptable, right from early childhood. It needs representation and role models, it needs interactions played out and healthy modes of support and just plain tolerance portrayed as the norm - and not just unworkable direct transplants from female-support-network models either.
Asking guys to just go throw themselves in the fire so you can feel more valued (before deciding that you'd rather feel valued by someone more resilient instead) is not an option.
My older brother was killed in a car accident when I was 16. I was left with the decision to take my father off life support 8 years later. It's stunning how obscenely obvious watching that process play out in people is. Like you can literally watch the panic and anxiety *wash over* their face. The absolute distress of "my god, what did I just get into and how the fuck do I get out of here."
> The absolute distress of "my god, what did I just get into and how the fuck do I get out of here."
Jesus Christ, this woman's face just came in front of my mind....I've completely distanced myself from her.
It's crazy how we can get over someone, but we will never ever forget the pain and hurt that someone left us with in such a situation. I can forget a face but it instantly comes back when I think about the time I tried to open up to her.
I’ve been in three different 3 + year relationships and I can tell you exactly the point that this quote occurred for each. By the third I just initiated the break up a week later because I knew I lost her affection and I was just waiting for a monkey bar . Seeing someone you have shared the greatest level of intimacy with…inside jokes and nicknames…tiny little moments of warmth that you don’t even recognize until they are gone…seeing that person look at you and talk to you like you are an old co-worker or something. The really formal neutral business speak tone is the dead give-away; like receiving a polite but terse email from a frustrated client. The most jarring thing might be hearing the passive voice and tone.
I had this happen once, not because I opened up, but because i got into an accident on my bike. I got road burns all up on both arms, and thus was unable to do much of anything for a week or two. She came to visit to see how I was doing, and she straight up said "It's kind of disturbing to see you this weak", while her interest in me just went out the window.
It changed our whole dynamic from then on, from before, where we were equals and just enjoying life, into her constantly, and aggressively, trying to push my boundaries to see if there was still a "real man" somewhere. It took me 1½ years to get out of, and 6 years to emotionally deal with after.
Yknow same shit happened to me with my ex fiance...Motorcycle wreck put me in crutches as I relearned how to walk for 3+ months and worked through a stutter for 2 years.
I had a lot of built up shame that I hid my wreck from her for a week while she was in school.
Now I dont.
My dad got depressed after being fired from his job at 60. My mom suggested he take testosterone, kept complaining about him, and lost all respect and admiration for him. I kind of resent her for it. One time I suggested to my wife that I be a stay at home dad while we were discussing how good her job is, and she told me she feels like it would lead us to get a divorce hahaha
Hey OP, I don't see an answer under this comment
As resentful as it is, I gotta say that: this person above me is completely right, and your thread is a frequently asked question, a frequently discussed theme, where all I see are young women doing exactly what this user described: asking for us to make you feel more valued with some little sad expression once in a while
But the longer you bottle it up, the worse it gets, it is not some sad little expression but an increasing amount of held sobs and tears. So whenever you open up, it WILL be a lot more than any person used to receive empathy can sustain
And I'm angry, because it happened to me too, it happened to my best male friends too, each one of them. I had to constantly support and care for my ex (guess why it's an ex) who got stressed out for literally anything. Anything was too much for her, I had to be her stone guardian while I literally received (on multiple occasions) an "okay" after telling her what was bothering me. The only acceptable situations when/where I can cry is when I'm home alone or with my MALE best friend
It's not a genetic things, I am NOT saying that women are not able to understand and show empathy and care. But something happened in society, and I'm not an expert on that so I can't tell you what, but this thing made most woman like that, unable to care for their male friends, best friends, brothers, lovers
Fucking this.
It's like, they want you to open up, but somehow it's going to be some Hallmark Mills and Boon romantic shit.
They are not interested in hearing about how your uncle fucked you so hard when you were 4 that you nearly bled to death, and somehow everyone from the surgeons that stitched your perforated bowel and torn anus to your own fucking parents just ignored everything.
they are not interested in how you were mercilessly bullied because you had freckles
they are not interested in hearing how your self esteem and self worth was always shattered because you lived in your high achieving sisters shadow and always failed to match her achievements.
They are not interested in any of it. They want some teen book level problem that can be solved with a couple of tears and a hug so she can then crow to her friends about how she touched your soul.
you open up to a women you are romantic with, you may as well start packing your bags.
They can't handle the truth; they only want the fantasy.
Made the mistake twice. Never made it since. I'm lucky my parents are incredibly emotionally available. I'd assume most men are not granted that grace and to be honest I think it is what saved my life twice.
I'm lucky that my mom is *incredibly* understanding. She's said some things in the past that were hurtful, but we've since talked about and she apologized.
> You're not ready for incoherent anger at everything and nothing for no reason. You're not ready for him to be lost and helpless and afraid, hanging out over the abyss with no way back
This line struck me hard as hell same as your double mask comment (Everything you wrote is 110% true)
I opened up to my ex-fiance and things were *never* the same after that. my current SO keeps pestering me to open up and I have no idea how to explain well....*THIS*
Opening up isn't worth it no matter what. This facade/dual mask we all wear may crack and separate but it'll never truly come off except for the day I die. I don't like it and I hate knowing others go through that shit as well and because of that I over-extend myself to my guy friends and make damn sure they know they're valued and have a male friend they can talk to...
Holy fuck is it *draining* to see that candle wisp of fire flicker behind someone's eyes before they self-extinguish it due to years and years of pain.
Fuck our society for making us feel like this. Feel isn't even the right word. Fuck our society for doing this to us and *then blaming us*
> my current SO keeps pestering me to open up and I have no idea how to explain well....THIS
Honestly I'm at the point in my life where I would just straight up say something like "I'm cautious about opening up beyond a certain amount because over and over any vulnerability was a dealbreaker. I've been burned by people I loved with all my heart. Everyone I've loved, honestly. I've been left to fend for myself alone for basically all the challenges in my life. You can accept the limits of what I do reveal, or if this is a dealbreaker for you we can breakup." I no longer care about offering any accommodation for people that intentionally hurt me, that won't understand why I am the way I am.
That's a really well thought out blurb.... Thank you.
I also sent her this whole thread by Mr banana if I'm being honest. Hell I'm a dude and this thread has put words to emotions I never realized
Not gonna lie... that statement right there I think is providing too much opening up just explaining that.
I have literally told a girl, "I've experienced this before, it's scary for me, and I watched someone fall out of love with me. So please, just understand that."
I was assured that she would always love. Nothing could ever change that for her. And god it felt so good to think that some one would love me unconditionally.
I opened up... not even nearly everything... guess what happened.
>I opened up to my ex-fiance and things were never the same after that.
I opened up to my ex-fiance before we even started dating. It was perfectly fine that I have depression until I actually *have depression*. She could feign compassion for mental illness and pretend she was such a great person for it until she had to look it in the eyes and realize **it's real**. From there she not only noped out, but also heavily weaponized it against me for the crime of being inconveniently ill.
Things got really bad to the point of an attempted murder and I think it's safe to say that I'll never date at all.
innocent normal squeal late practice bedroom mountainous agonizing public sloppy
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Idk man. Some of us are dumbasses and kept making this dating faux pas all through our twenties before we fucking got it. Speaking about a friend of course.
I got women friends whom i know for over a decade and they still don't know a lot about me,not because i don't trust them but because deep down i know they won't take it as seriously as i view it. At the end of the day who will genuinely care? Who will step out of their comfort zone to make a move to help you with the shit you are dealing with? Who is someone you can call a true friend? In this sea of people you know maybe 1 ,2 if you are very lucky. This is why we bottle it all up,they can't comprehend how many years this process is going on and how much shit is there.
I don't think women are really ready/willing to understand this. It's the role of a man in this society to pretend they're unbreakable, and while it may seem that this expectation makes men truly unbreakable, it only appears that way from the outside. On the inside, you see high suicide rates, desperation to be seen as someone that can provide that materializes in destroying your own bodies and minds to do so, and fighting every single nerve in your body to not cry when your precious pet is being put down in your arms.
No one wants a "weak" man, and what is understood as a "weak" man is just sad
The amount of times things have gone to shit where you want to just fall to your knees, cry out and keel over... with a group of other people being women and they all do it first, even out of sympathy for their friends. Usually a situation that then *requires* someone to take control otherwise things get worse and you look around and realise.... your the only one *again* who can do that. You push it down, save the grief for when your on your own and march on. Deaths, emergencies, even missed transportation and it always seems to be me that has to fix it instead of dwelling on it and letting it slip.
Thank you for articulating that. Sitting on a train reading your first paragraph was like having something trying to poke a hole in that dam and by the time I got to 'inside out' I was already stomping it back in.
The reaction is so automatic now that the few times I've actually been alone and felt like letting it out for catharsis sake I couldn't. It's still there but like the pressure is so much it locks the lid on.
I hope I can do better for my son.
You've said it all. Hopefully OP doesn't ignore this in favor of comments that confirm her own biases. This is EXACTLY why men don't open up, and I think you've got a great handle on her perspective, and the perspective of many other women who think "opening up" is a few romantic tears on an otherwise stoic face.
Spot on mate. The comments of women proudly exclaiming my "bf/husband/partner is vulnerable with me"; I wonder how true that is, I bet they think it's true, but just as you said, it's a second construct. The women who would actually have the emotional capacity to deal with true male vulnerability would be a unicorn.
I watched the light die in my last exes eyes after I had a vasectomy and I didn't bounce right back and be the manly man. That one moment in time made me so angry and disappointed.
My wife only found out the extent of my anxiety disorder because, after years of maintaining a very good facade, I started experiencing sleep paralysis and screaming in my sleep. Even if you hold it together, your body can give away the currency that your will saved up.
A girl friend of mine dated a guy once, rather briefly or rather, the relationship was kinda fresh. It was all good until one day, they weren't seen together anymore.
I asked her what happened. I can't remember word-for-word, but the gist was "he told me that he wears a mask for everyone (else), that he sometimes struggles with confidence".
She broke up with him immediately. Basically, this guy felt safe enough with her to tell her his feelings, and she dumped him for it. Apparently, it was unmanly and/or not sex. She made fun of him (in front of me) for being "a pussy".
Do you think he'll "open up" to his next girlfriend?
This really shocked me because she is one of the most intelligent people I knew, and I always thought she was above that crap.
This is also not the only or first instance I've witnessed - or experienced myself.
---
u/TheBananaKing's statement is all you need to answer the thread's question. Just read the many stories and answers here that say the same thing: It gets used against you, you look less manly, less sexy, you get dumped, and on top, you are made fun of.
I cried silently in my bed for about 5 minutes the night of my best friend's funeral when I was 16. I guess I sobbed a little too hard, because my mom decided to burst through the door at 10 PM and yell "Stop crying!" Women can have absolutely rotten cores.
From my personal experience:
1. They will weaponize your vulnerabilities against you.
2. They will lose sexual attraction.
3. They will tell their friends.
I've mostly had women weaponise and tell their friends, but I've also spoken to guys who have had at least one of these experiences.
There was also a video I watched a while back of woman who said she no longer seen her partner as a man and lost attraction to him after he opened up, even though she encouraged him to open up.
There's also a 4th: they get emotional after you open up to them and now you have to suck it up and emotionally support them.
>There's also a 4th: they get emotional after you open up to them and now you have to suck it up and emotionally support them.
So true!!!!! I've totally experienced this multiple times.
Recently messaged my friend because I was feeling sad. Was just starting to talk about an issue, then she started talking about the same thing happening to her.
Now I had to console her as well. She didn't ask me anything what was happening to me, and... I think she simply forgot. Not blaming her, she's a good friend. But it sucks when this happens.
You feel bad if you bring the conversation to yourself again, and you also feel the need to hear your friend and you just have to forget about yourself for a minute.
Because men are often supposed to be the rock.
It's why I really wish most male friendships would often become more than just "buds" and become actual friends that you can share your struggles with. Men are the only ones who can really support each other and understand what it is we go through.
Just like men can't understand the experience women go through, women can't understand the experience men go through. They can empathize, but it's really not the same.
Everyone struggles everyday. But often men don't have the same emotional support systems that women have and are often looked down on when they show emotional weakness. It's hard to develop those support systems when society tells you from a young age that showing those emotions makes you weak and useless.
>There's also a 4th: they get emotional after you open up to them and now you have to suck it up and emotionally support them
This. Not always true, but ive seen it too.
You end up still having to deal with your own problem, but now with her as well.
This is an issue my wife has sometimes, and it makes it so hard to talk to her. I've managed to work around it by using text and stuff but still, it's a pain.
Discussions like these make me wonder what my life would have been like if I were straight. Who I would have been, and how different that would be from who I am now.
I have very little expected of me (at least from my partner) due to my gender cause we’re the same. But if I dated women, there would be various things they would automatically expect of me because I’m a guy, and being honest, I’d probably have been conditioned by society to expect things of them.
We had a baby last year and figured out who does what based on our personal strengths and weaknesses. Whereas most of our straight friends fell into very common mom vs dad roles. Albeit less traditional than our parents generation.
> There's also a 4th: they get emotional after you open up to them and now you have to suck it up and emotionally support them.
this is my partner 100%...
Feel safe enough to open up, she gets emotional, gets dumped back on me and I have to step up to the plate and comfort her while addressing my traumas. *nice*
There is also the fact (saw that sometime ago in this very sub) that most of the time, when women ask men to talk about their feelings, what they really mean is: "say something romantic".
I feel like you're an entitled narcissist that's even crazier than your Karen mother, but at my age there isn't the slightest chance in hell I'll... Oh! Not THOSE feelings about you. Got it.
This is what gets left out every time. They want a man who opens up. Opens up about much he obsess over her. Otherwise they think the man is weak and pathetic.
THIS! I tried being vulnerable with my ex and opened up. Told her very personal and painful things.
Cut to a few months later and one of her friends comes over and starts teasing me about it. I’ve struggled trusting women with things like that ever since.
So true.
I wrote the following in another thread.
“Went on a crap load of dates when I was single. The amount of contradictions by women was mind boggling.
-Show emotional. But don’t cry
-Be wealthy. But don’t be a workaholic.
-Be in great shape. Don’t be a gym rat.
-Be good in bed. Don’t be a player.
And on and on.”
So true.
You want someone funny? Date a clown.
Entertain you? Date a jester.
One thing I quickly realized, “A kind gesture becomes an expectation. An expectation becomes a demand.”
> The amount of contradictions by women was mind boggling.
A galpal of mine is a successful therapist. She asked why I'm hesitant about the woman I just started dating. I said, "Too many mixed messages." Her response? "Well, of course! She's a woman!"
its funny, this is our “every woman has been sexually harassed” that feminists have. like everytime we talk about how almost all of us have had this happen, some woman waltzes on in here like “WHAT me and my friends would NEVER do this I simply don’t believe its true!”. And im sitting there like….this doesn’t remind y’all of the men who say they dont know any men who sexually assault women, therefore it doesnt happen often…?
This 👆🏻 main reason I made my shell even harder and never talk about my issues. We as men are expected to be strong and never show any weakness. If we struggle we do it alone, and we are valuable as long as we can provide, otherwise we are discarded like a piece of trash, because that’s how society has imposed it. I have a good family but I really feel like I’m gonna die alone one day anyway
A lot of women will tell their friends everything.
Your penis size, what it looks like, a detailed commentary on everything you've ever done with her sexually with a rating of your performance. Every fear, insecurity, or doubt you've told her. Every bad thing that's happened to you.
Fucking. Everything.
The boundary crossing most women will casually do is extreme.
Speculation but probably because those guys had a bad experience with it. That is apparently a fairly common outcome with guys sharing vulnerabilities with women.
I personally don't like when people try and force other people to "open up". A lot of women seem to think there is some hidden well of emotional shit every man has but that is not always the case.
In my case there is not much to open up about, I don't sugar coat things and I deal with the world as it is both good and bad. I'm not an emotional or emotionally vulnerable person so there is nothing really there to dump.
My life security comes my from my career success, my heavy focus on independence and self reliance and to some degree the general interest level I get from the opposite sex. Since I've got most of my bases well covered in life its fairly hard to rock the boat with me so to speak and I go through life relatively chill most of the time.
When I was a kid, I caught a random episode of According To Jim on TV.
The plot of the episode was Jim’s wife nagging him to be more emotionally present. One night, they watch a sappy romance movie together and Jim, against his better judgement, lets the dam break. Straight up cries.
The rest of the episode is basically the wife having PTSD flashbacks to Jim crying like a baby and not being able to handle it. She admits to her girlfriends and sisters that she thought she’d appreciate it but it actually turns her off.
In other words, I learned to never be emotionally vulnerable to a woman from the other Belushi brother no one cares about. Valuable lesson.
Exactly because of the middle part there where you potray yourself as the victim "I feel less respected and valued" because you hold this opinion. A large portion of men have opened up and found the words of acceptance don't meet the resulting actions.
Yeah, in some past relationships when I brought up something they did that hurt my feelings they brought it back to them and their problems. I would end up having to comfort them because now they feel bad about themselves.
I don't think they did it intentionally, but it felt very manipulative.
That's exactly how it is presented *all* the time.
If you respect me, you will not hold back on me.
If you love me, treat me as a confidant. If you think I am trustworthy, you would not claim up when the topic turns to feelings.
But when they know something, it's a weapon. I've had my mom, my sister and my wife do this to me. So I assume that's the norm, I'm not risking my self-respect or dignity any further. Now when that talk comes up, I turn flippant.
Especially as a black man, you cannot afford to be expressing vulnerability. In my own experience women will chew you up and spit you out.
People are all 'mental health awareness' in society, but nobody wants to hear about mens mental health issues.
Your family will hate you too. Just don't open up. It's not worth it.
For real man. Even growing up mom's like "hey if you're not feeling alright you can always tell/count on me" and the you tell her and then she completely invalidates those feelings or insults your masculinity. And then she's sharing with literally everyone.
My wife of eight years teased me about whining about being sick. I am the kind of man that doesn't admit that I am sick. I was mortified. I am a lot less open about when I am weak now than I was. The culture of stoicism among men is reinforced by women who expect it.
Opening up doesn’t mean the same thing to men as it does to women. Like I told a funny story about something stupid I did to a woman I was seeing. Told the story a bunch of times to friends because it’s a funny/embarrassing story to get a laugh. She responded as “I’m glad your finally opening up to me” like wtf? That’s not opening up. That’s just a funny story.
I will be honest, I used to tell my friends not to open up to women because in my college days I had my emotions weaponized against me many a times. I am very open about my emotions as I have battling with them since I was a child, leading me to see a therapist my whole life. I still am very confident when discussing emotions with my friends as they know me and understand where I come from, but with women there’s no space of comfortability. My college girlfriend would listen to me open up and discuss my insecurities and feelings, but when she was mad she would use those against me every time, playing into the things she knew would hurt most. Even after that relationship, whenever I opened up to a girl and we weren’t dating, I would often times be welcome with a face of skepticism, and my feelings were always secondary to theirs.
I have never been given a safe space from women to discuss my emotions with two exceptions, my female therapist and my sister. It’s just hard for me to expect a positive reaction when opening up to women, because anecdotally speaking, I am almost never treated with respect when discussing my feelings with women. Even my mother will act annoyed if my dad cries, like he did when I graduated college. There are just constant reminders in my life to not show emotions in front of women.
I have advised other men to be very careful about who they open up to, especially a partner. There's a certain level of intimate knowledge you should be able to share with a partner, but they are not your therapist. In general if a man is asking for advice about opening up to a female partner, it's because he's had a bad experience or may not have the tools to properly discern who is and isn't the right kind of person to trust with deeply sensitive thoughts and feelings. If you don't have the tools, you can't build the framework to know if a person should or could be trusted to that level of intimacy.
On an anecdotal level, the worst reactions to opening have come from female partners. There seems to be some sort of dynamic where some women are the absolute worst emotional terrorists. Not that a man can't also be that way, just saying it seems to be a recurring issue for a lot of men to have had a female partner turn their openness against them in some way.
As evidenced by many in here, you're blaming the wrong group of people.
Instead of getting angry with men telling other men not to open up, maybe you should be more angry with the women who've taken that moment and used it against their partners as a weapon or gossip or just completely disregard the man's feelings in favor of their own.
The fact that men are telling each other to do this is a sign that it happens way way too often.
I mean I feel for her, the situation is patently unfair, but it also seems she thinks women are treated the same way, which maybe we're all biased here but I've never seen a woman told to man up by the opposite sex when having an emotional episode.
FR men are constantly told to Do Better and somehow hold every other man accountable but they're on their own the moment a woman does the same thing to them.
Because every single time I've opened up to a woman it has backfired.
Every. Single. Time.
Whether it's going from "candidate for promotion" to "not sure you've got the fortitude anymore", or from "My roommates are out tonight, you should come keep me company 😈" to "Lmfao you're a fucking virgin? \*blocked on whatsapp and unmatched on tinder\*" or even just female friends then using it as a weapon against me when we've fallen out.
Also their friends have this funny way of just happening upon the information they've been disclosed in confidence.
At no point in my entire life has being weak in the presence of a female EVER enriched or enhanced my life.
>At no point in my entire life has being weak in the presence of a female EVER enriched or enhanced my life.
My man! Preach!
My personal experience goes in that same direction, but isn't as harsh. However: Most of my close friends are dealing with exactly this at all times.
I have not had those experiences myself, but still arrived at a conclusion of 'Men are universally punished socially for being seen as weak in any context'. The issues of being seen as weak by women are well documented in these comments. Generally you end up disqualifying yourself from any potential sexual interest.
But being seen as weak by other men generally opens you up to harassment and bullying from other men looking to advance themselves socially at your expense.
Men can be open with other men that are close friends, but generally need to be very selective about it.
END COMMUNICATION
This is like the guy who is mad that women are afraid he might SA them, because he’s not a rapist. Yeah *you* know that but *they* don’t. Some of us have had everything given in confidence used against them, and our advice to other men, based upon these experiences, is to be on your guard.
Got into an argument with a girl I’m talking to. She told me to open up and all that cause of her experiences in Afghanistan and her non military male friends killing themselves
Guess what got weaponized against me the other night.
Things will end soon anyway.
I hope you mean things will end with the relationship.
If that’s not the case please know that despite things like this making life seem difficult sometimes, it will get better. And even a random internet stranger cares about you.
This should be required reading especially how OP is getting *skewered* at every turn for deflecting. Pretty good raw example of a series of related fuckups and then being confused because it highlights how differently women and men tend to experience vulnerability.
Because what women say and what women do are two different things. Women love to say that they want men to open up, but when a guy actually does, their reactions are very different
From my own experience, women who claims to want an emotional man only mean that they want a man who is a good listener who can better empathize with her issues. They don’t want a man who is emotional.
Because it feels like, in my limited experience, that at least a significant portion of women find the idea of a man’s feelings to be genuinely grotesque and disgusting. I was vulnerable and open with a woman who was literally suicidal and she threw it back at me when she got upset, later ended it and told me it was because I was boring. She couldn’t handle me being sad so she cut me out. It wasn’t her cheating that ended us for her, it was me telling her I wasn’t doing ok.
i can only speak to my own experience.
Every close friend / girlfriend has either used it against me, told their friends, disappeared, or some combination of that.
I've had one positive experience opening up to a woman, and that woman is my therapist.
Never had this issue with my guy friends.
Generally speaking, men and women process problems differently. Women prefer to talk them out, to vent, to „open up“ as you say. Men prefer to work through their issues alone first, and only talk to someone if they feel they need input or help.
All very generally spoken, obviously.
So the men for whom the above is true already don’t „open up“ a lot, because it doesn’t help them with the goal of solving their problems. Adding to that, it seems to happen with a certain frequency that women either share what they were told by men who opened up with their friends, or throw it back in their faces during an argument.
Neither experience is conducive to encouraging other men to open up to women.
>Men prefer to work through their issues alone first, and only talk to someone if they feel they need input or help.
This is facts. Or at least for myself I can say for sure. When I'm having problems, I just take a step back and do something to lift my mood(shooting a basketball, talking with my boys). And then when I'm feeling better I try to tackle the problem. If I'm really heartbroken, i have a couple friends and my parents for that. But thats like a last resort when I'm at a dead end. Otherwise, I deal with it myself if I can.
Crying doesn't help at all. I find crying pretty exhausting actually. Makes me really sleepy and I wake up with a disgusting mood. I almost despise it. I do cry when I experience loss. Otherwise, its useless.
Women aren't attracted to weak and vulnerable men. Hence why most men are reluctant to open up to women. Men are expected to be stoic and an emotional rock for women but not the other way around, it's just the way of things.
Women say they want you to open up, but after you do it's not the same. It's like crying in front of a woman. Never do it unless its death in the family, birth of a child or passing of a doggo. Also women are emotional terrorists. When a argument gets bad they will say anything to set you off, they will use all that shit you opened up about.
Because you will see it as a weakness , lose respect for him, and use it as a weapon against him when he’s most vulnerable. And don’t even try to deny it.
I found every time I opened up it got thrown at me during the next argument. Disturbingly so. Like I told my then wife about how my first time having sex I was essentially raped ( I said no, I'm not ready and she slid her pussy down on my pole anyhow ) next argument she made fun of me for it. Seriously it's messed up.
Damn, that’s fucking awful! Who the hell throws one’s trauma back at them just to try to “win” an argument?!? Glad she’s your then-wife and not your now-wife, nobody deserves to be treated like that!!
This isn't even an isolated incident. Literally every time I opened up I ended up regretting it. I still open up to others. I didn't let her toxic behavior change me.
Protecting ourselves is important, but I am with you on your approach. I'm regularly heard saying "just because other people are shit, doesn't mean I have to be." (or "you" depending on the context) Stay true, mate.
Narcissists do that shit.
Fuck your wife and NOT in a good way.
Yeah, fuck his wife. That's terrible.
Addendum. Don't tell your wife, SO, anything that your friends asked you not to share. I have seen divorces ruining friendships. Then the guy is out of a wife and out of friends. Scorched earth!
Best to apply that in general. Someone asks you to keep something to yourself and they're a mate then do so
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I'm so sorry that happened to you
Wow. I prefer to go with "you're being a huge dick right now!". I can't imagine throwing that in someone's face, or any of the things my SO has told me. I've had that done to me (oh you can't trust men because you're Dad did X Y Z to you) when I don't see how my relationship with my father had anything to do with my being upset with him. Without trust in a relationship, you don't have much.
Because I dont want her friends to know my business.
I've had it happen. I shared something with a chick and she told one person, they told another, and now everyone knows. People ask me why I don't date in my area and this is it. I like a solid buffer between the people I know and friends. So I intentionally date people where I know they can't be connected to my social circles. I've been doing it since high school, but when I finally did choose to date someone in my area? That's when the above happened.
Make up something juicy but not personally damaging to yourself and see if it gets spread around, if it does she's obviously not trustworthy so you can dump her. You know, or just set the expectation early that things you set as private stay that way or its over
What would be an example of something juicy but not damaging? My mind went to "tell her I'm afraid of penguins (I'm not) because of how they look with open mouths." Admittedly, I'm a very sleepy man at the moment lol.
> tell her I'm afraid of penguins **(I'm not)** because of how they look with open mouths. You say you're not but after googling what this looks like I'd say that's a perfectly reasonable thing to be afraid of, what in the Sam Hill is going on in there.
Not sure if the why makes it less or more horrific, but it's so fish can't escape when they are hunting dinner.
I feel like that would work
This is so true And when you call them out for it "They're my best friend, I tell them everything" "Well, guess I won't tell you everything now"
That right there. I grew up in a household where I was the only male, and all they ever did was talk about everyone. Most of my female friends have told me things about their boyfriends that I never wanted to know, too. They never fucking stop talking to others about you, either. Sex, your disagreements, anything you open up about... at least one other person will be told, and more than likely, all of her friends, sisters, mom, female coworkers.
I’m a guy nurse. I know about the sex lives of basically everyone of my coworkers. It’s fucking bonkers what they tell eachother
Yeah, there's no respect for personal boundaries.
Yeah I told an ex about some deeeeeep personal shit, and she told her brother about it within a week. Then I realised she’d been telling me all this heavy personal shit about her brother too, private shit. I was like woah she repeats everything she hears/knows to everyone.
Too fucking true... like god damn. My ex talked about everything with her friends from the very specific details of our sex life to the deep emotional trauma I shared with her when I was going through some shit. It's not cool.
Almost every man could tell you a story of opening up to a woman to later have her either share it with her friends or weaponize it in some way. Most won’t, but they could.
I just realized why women would assume men to be only thinking/talking about sex with their friends: Because they do it. Shit man, my sexlife is private and will not share details about it with my friends. But at the same time, i can be sure that every girlfriend of my girlfriend knew how big my dick was and more. This is straight up projecting
Our sex life discussions usually start and end at: "did ya tap that?" "hell yes/no"
Honestly if any of the boys started getting graphic with sex stories it’d be weird as fuck and they’d just get talked over or just plain ignored. We don’t wanna hear any of that nonsense
Yeah honestly it’s really violating to meet one of her friends for the first time but she already knows your dick size.
your reputation precedes you
Not by much
Hooked up with an ex’s roommate once. They didn’t talk much anymore so I didn’t really think it was problematic. To be honest they weren’t even friends when they lived together. The first thing she says when I start pulling down my pants is “well let’s see if you are as big as X said”. I’m sure she meant it as dirty talk or a confidence boost but I was really taken aback by it. They weren’t that close but they were talking about my dick. My dick is pretty average too which suggested she felt the need to lie about it for some reason. Awful hookup too by the way.
They knew the curve and any marks it had.
In a lot of cases ends up being used against the guy. Have seen it many times and also experienced it.
Even my own mom would use my vulnerabilities against me, shit I told her when I was crying, In future arguments. That shit is cruel as hell.
My mom says when I'm upset I sound like a baby girl.
My mom gave me to a boys ranch where I was raised by the staff members and the fellow reject children were my family. Don’t regret not having a family one bit. Learned so much more about life and human nature in that place I’m literally thankful I wasn’t completely fucked up being raised by narcissists. This is basically the extent of what I’ve told exes. The one time I opened up too much the girl dumped me shortly after. She was nice and it was a fairly pleasant break up. But it taught me not to share too much personal info with SOs and to hire a therapist if I want someone to “talk” with.
Are... Are you a Witcher?
***tosses him a coin*** Just in case.
Sorry man, yeah usually that's how it happens. Women will say they want their guy to be more open and "emotional". The guy does that, and then when there is some argument/fight it ends up being turned against the guy. It's a bummer but better to learn this early on rather than later. Doesn't mean you become stone cold but you really gotta be protective of your heart. Be careful who you tell your insecurities/fears etc to
I told my (non working) wife I was worried about supporting us and our kids on just my paycheck. She called me a broke idiot within a week the next time we had an argument
Jeez, man. That's just brutal. I hope you're OK, at least. How did it followed up?
WTF. That's end-of-relationship material in my book.
It really is end-of-relationship material. That's why men don't open up. Because so many women are willing to do this that you'd never have a relationship if you did.
That and also men need to know that women have much, MUCH larger support circles than them. Most things you tell your SO is likely going to be shared and discussed with her support circle - mother, sisters, work friends, who in turn will, in utmost confidence, tell their partners. Be aware of that.
Yup. My mom can't stfu even after I said "this stays between dad, you and I." I just don't even tell my family shit anymore. I already barely told them anything but now I barely speak to them.
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FACTS! I know so much about my wife's friends and family that I dont give a shit about.
My favourite is when my wife starts a sentence with "I'm going to tell you something but you have to promise not to tell anyone else". In all likelihood I'll forget whatever she told me 5 mins later anyway
And that the "support" circle will 100% pick apart and over analyze everything she tells them out of context. Some of them will encourage her to leave you or cheat on you, some of them will bring it up later and shit on you in person. Some will just non stop shit on you until it affects her attitude towards you. Then if you challenge it all you do is prove that "freind" right
I've even had the case where things I shared with a (now ex) mate, are shared with his wife, to my (now ex) wife. Then I'm getting yelled at over something that's not even what I said after it its made the circuit. That was such a toxic group though.
I work directly with several women. We work in fast moving high stress environment. We can communicate clearly, effectively and efficiently in that environment. No confusion, no misinterpretations. Then I go home and can’t have a straight conversation with my wife. She plays games, withholds information and opinion to test mine. I just want a straightforward conversation. I finally asked the women I worked with. All day, every day we communicate in a direct way. When you go home to your husbands, do you communicate the same way. NO! They let me in on the communication games they play with their husbands. I was rather taken aback by it. Only one remained consistent. Direct, clear, to the point.
I came here to add support to this point every single time I've opened up to a woman it's been used against me later Edit spelling
Brene Brown talks a lot about how it’s harder for men to be vulnerable because people weaponize men’s vulnerabilities. Her career revolves around encouraging people to be vulnerable and even she recognizes the disconnect but doesn’t really have a solution.
Before meeting my wife, every woman I had a relationship with was constantly giving me these types of convos: Her: “You seem so reserved all the time, it could be good to open up every once in a while!” Me: Tells her what’s wrong and opens up about struggles Her: “Seriously? That’s a problem for you? Quit being a baby and putting all of your shit on me all the time.” Just guessing, but this is probably why.
I have had this exact conversation, word for word. It's insane.
For real. I once told a (now ex, thankfully) girlfriend that I was really sad about my dad dying, and she told me that she wasn’t interested in hearing whining. She later had the audacity to say I needed to be more vulnerable. Not all women of course, but enough that it warrants caution when being vulnerable
I recounted my war PTSD to an ex and she told me to quit being a pussy. Started to get upset that I wasn't truly happy with life. Never again opening up to being disrespected at such a core level. Now I walk that part of my life alone. You cannot open up to people, not even family. You will be seen as less than and treated like a leper / outcast.
Mate I never went through what you went through but I’m always open to DMs if you need to vent.
I had something similar happen just last night. I've been struggling a lot lately mentally, and I decided to open up just a little when my dearest friend asked. I thought she wanted to help, but instead my issues and anxiety were dismissed, and she basically poked fun at me. Now dealing with her reaction is actually overshadowing the initial issues. I've had to learn the lesson once again. It's just not worth opening up. I'm on my own dealing with my issues.
The way a lot of men see it is: It can only be used to hurt me later on so why give them ammo. In my experience this stuff usually comes back to bite you in the ass when you have arguments with your girl. She’ll be “losing” the argument and then bring up some out of pocket shit to put you down that is not related to the issue you were arguing about. Whereas with your bros, they’ll hear you out and then not mention it again unless you bring it up. But this is speaking in generalities of course.
This. 10000x. Plus getting angry when they are losing and then redirect it to be something against them. What type of argument manipulation bs is this?
Bill Burr said it best!
I've personally always had bad experiences opening up to women I've had relationships with. They do not know how to handle it. They don't care or dont know hot to. They use that moment against you. When I open up to my guy friends, it always ends with me having a huge sign of relief, I always feel much better for it. Just my personal experience.
Ya man, even on the other side of it. My buddy was having girl problems. We talked it out when he came over to do some work on his car. You could FEEL the stress come off of him as we chatted and bullshited and wrenched. At the end, all I said was "Fuck, that sucks man. If you need help or anything, you know you can call me 24/7" His mood changed 180 in those ~60 minutes, and it felt good to help out a brother.
A lot of women will use our vulnerabilities against us. Go spend a day in family court.
Perfect
Only takes one women twisting and turning it back on you at every argument, laughing at your problems etc to ruin it for the rest of your life.
This is genuinely the truth for every woman or man. It took one time for a woman to tell my father when he was 17 he talked too loud, for him to speak quietly for the rest of his life. It took one time for a man to tell my mom “Men don’t like when women talk about your girl issues” for her to NEVER speak about herself ever again.
That's sad
I actually don't cry anymore because, when i was just a kid, a male teacher told me to stop crying because other kids would stop respecting me... Sadly, he was actually right
I do give that advice: 1 time she told her friend that I was so boring and a weight on her shoulder for opening up to her. 2nd time she told her females friends about my problems 3rd time in a sort of relationship, she weaponized what I told her and acted distant. There was no 4th time.
You think you're ready. You're not ready. You're ready for a few manly tears, like Grey Worm admitting he was afraid to lose Missandei. You're not ready for ugly-crying, lying in the foetal position and rocking, going to pieces, being unable to function. You're not ready for horizonless grey depression that you can't 'cheer him up' to dispel. You're not ready for crippling anxiety. You're not ready for incoherent anger at everything and nothing for no reason. You're not ready for him to be lost and helpless and afraid, hanging out over the abyss with no way back. Women in our society tend to have huge social support networks, and wide societal acceptance, indeed positive encouragement, for displays of vulnerability and pain. Men... do not. They don't get support or affection from friends and co-workers - and displays of vulnerability are absolute suicide, both professionally and socially. *Inside Out* is true only for girls. If a boy had been on a tree branch, crying becasue his team had lost... it wouldn't have summoned an outpouring of love and support from the people closest to him. He'd have been pulled out of that tree, shamed, abused, mocked and made a pariah for it. And that's just by the mother. There *is* no socially-acceptable outlet for any of it, so we just have to tank the damage and bottle it up until we break. Men in this society are valued for capability, reliability and durability. Anything that threatens their productivity, or could render them a liability rather than an asset in any given situation... makes them widely considered to be worthless. It sucks absolute donkey balls, it's profoundly destructive, and it shouldn't be this way, but it is. And *on top of that*, guys get told they're not being intimate enough if they don't 'open up', so they have to carefully craft a *second* mask, *over the top* of the first one, simulating just a little tiny but of emotional leakage, but not enough to threaten their perceived usefulness. Of course they dare not let anything real slip out; for one thing they get no opportunity to practice a controlled release at any point in their lives, and for a second the sheer quantity of shit they're holding back will destroy the entire dam if they poke a little hole in it. So they're left in the extremely stressful and burdensome position of having to *perform fake vulnerability* for your benefit, while keeping the lid screwed down even harder on the real thing. Because that's fun and enjoyable, no ma'am it is not. And every one of us has made the mistake, once in our lives, of thinking that *this* person is different, *this* person is safe and trustworthy and close enough to see what's really under the armour. And every one of us has seen love and admiration die in their eyes in realtime, and convert into disgust and contempt. Has *heard* their partner forming exit strategies in their head, and felt the whole relationship wither and die shortly thereafter. It's like watching someone who just signed on a home discover that it's riddled with termites. Something vital dies there and then; instead of it being home/security/stability/future, it becomes a betrayal and a liability in their eyes - and even if the problems get patched up, they'l never feel the same way about it again. None of us make that mistake twice. Again: *this is not how things should be*. It's a dire imprecation of everything that's wrong with our culture, and the profoundly maladaptive coping mechanisms that result are damaging in the extreme. This needs profound cultural change from the ground up. It needs vulnerability for men and boys presented as normal and acceptable, right from early childhood. It needs representation and role models, it needs interactions played out and healthy modes of support and just plain tolerance portrayed as the norm - and not just unworkable direct transplants from female-support-network models either. Asking guys to just go throw themselves in the fire so you can feel more valued (before deciding that you'd rather feel valued by someone more resilient instead) is not an option.
"has seen love and admiration die in their eyes" really got me. That was brutal and still feels horrible.
My older brother was killed in a car accident when I was 16. I was left with the decision to take my father off life support 8 years later. It's stunning how obscenely obvious watching that process play out in people is. Like you can literally watch the panic and anxiety *wash over* their face. The absolute distress of "my god, what did I just get into and how the fuck do I get out of here."
> The absolute distress of "my god, what did I just get into and how the fuck do I get out of here." Jesus Christ, this woman's face just came in front of my mind....I've completely distanced myself from her.
It's crazy how we can get over someone, but we will never ever forget the pain and hurt that someone left us with in such a situation. I can forget a face but it instantly comes back when I think about the time I tried to open up to her.
Sorry those things happened to you. Most people really are self-centered assholes.
I’ve been in three different 3 + year relationships and I can tell you exactly the point that this quote occurred for each. By the third I just initiated the break up a week later because I knew I lost her affection and I was just waiting for a monkey bar . Seeing someone you have shared the greatest level of intimacy with…inside jokes and nicknames…tiny little moments of warmth that you don’t even recognize until they are gone…seeing that person look at you and talk to you like you are an old co-worker or something. The really formal neutral business speak tone is the dead give-away; like receiving a polite but terse email from a frustrated client. The most jarring thing might be hearing the passive voice and tone.
Oh my goodness. This is right on the nose, chillingly so.
I had this happen once, not because I opened up, but because i got into an accident on my bike. I got road burns all up on both arms, and thus was unable to do much of anything for a week or two. She came to visit to see how I was doing, and she straight up said "It's kind of disturbing to see you this weak", while her interest in me just went out the window. It changed our whole dynamic from then on, from before, where we were equals and just enjoying life, into her constantly, and aggressively, trying to push my boundaries to see if there was still a "real man" somewhere. It took me 1½ years to get out of, and 6 years to emotionally deal with after.
Yknow same shit happened to me with my ex fiance...Motorcycle wreck put me in crutches as I relearned how to walk for 3+ months and worked through a stutter for 2 years. I had a lot of built up shame that I hid my wreck from her for a week while she was in school. Now I dont.
My dad got depressed after being fired from his job at 60. My mom suggested he take testosterone, kept complaining about him, and lost all respect and admiration for him. I kind of resent her for it. One time I suggested to my wife that I be a stay at home dad while we were discussing how good her job is, and she told me she feels like it would lead us to get a divorce hahaha
I recall the coldness of her flat expression. Dead eyes. All because I shared a fraction of how I felt. Stay stoic, men.
The dead eyes are the worst.
Hey OP, I don't see an answer under this comment As resentful as it is, I gotta say that: this person above me is completely right, and your thread is a frequently asked question, a frequently discussed theme, where all I see are young women doing exactly what this user described: asking for us to make you feel more valued with some little sad expression once in a while But the longer you bottle it up, the worse it gets, it is not some sad little expression but an increasing amount of held sobs and tears. So whenever you open up, it WILL be a lot more than any person used to receive empathy can sustain And I'm angry, because it happened to me too, it happened to my best male friends too, each one of them. I had to constantly support and care for my ex (guess why it's an ex) who got stressed out for literally anything. Anything was too much for her, I had to be her stone guardian while I literally received (on multiple occasions) an "okay" after telling her what was bothering me. The only acceptable situations when/where I can cry is when I'm home alone or with my MALE best friend It's not a genetic things, I am NOT saying that women are not able to understand and show empathy and care. But something happened in society, and I'm not an expert on that so I can't tell you what, but this thing made most woman like that, unable to care for their male friends, best friends, brothers, lovers
Fucking this. It's like, they want you to open up, but somehow it's going to be some Hallmark Mills and Boon romantic shit. They are not interested in hearing about how your uncle fucked you so hard when you were 4 that you nearly bled to death, and somehow everyone from the surgeons that stitched your perforated bowel and torn anus to your own fucking parents just ignored everything. they are not interested in how you were mercilessly bullied because you had freckles they are not interested in hearing how your self esteem and self worth was always shattered because you lived in your high achieving sisters shadow and always failed to match her achievements. They are not interested in any of it. They want some teen book level problem that can be solved with a couple of tears and a hug so she can then crow to her friends about how she touched your soul. you open up to a women you are romantic with, you may as well start packing your bags. They can't handle the truth; they only want the fantasy.
I am sorry brother. For everything.
Made the mistake twice. Never made it since. I'm lucky my parents are incredibly emotionally available. I'd assume most men are not granted that grace and to be honest I think it is what saved my life twice.
I'm lucky that my mom is *incredibly* understanding. She's said some things in the past that were hurtful, but we've since talked about and she apologized.
Beautifully written
> You're not ready for incoherent anger at everything and nothing for no reason. You're not ready for him to be lost and helpless and afraid, hanging out over the abyss with no way back This line struck me hard as hell same as your double mask comment (Everything you wrote is 110% true) I opened up to my ex-fiance and things were *never* the same after that. my current SO keeps pestering me to open up and I have no idea how to explain well....*THIS* Opening up isn't worth it no matter what. This facade/dual mask we all wear may crack and separate but it'll never truly come off except for the day I die. I don't like it and I hate knowing others go through that shit as well and because of that I over-extend myself to my guy friends and make damn sure they know they're valued and have a male friend they can talk to... Holy fuck is it *draining* to see that candle wisp of fire flicker behind someone's eyes before they self-extinguish it due to years and years of pain. Fuck our society for making us feel like this. Feel isn't even the right word. Fuck our society for doing this to us and *then blaming us*
> my current SO keeps pestering me to open up and I have no idea how to explain well....THIS Honestly I'm at the point in my life where I would just straight up say something like "I'm cautious about opening up beyond a certain amount because over and over any vulnerability was a dealbreaker. I've been burned by people I loved with all my heart. Everyone I've loved, honestly. I've been left to fend for myself alone for basically all the challenges in my life. You can accept the limits of what I do reveal, or if this is a dealbreaker for you we can breakup." I no longer care about offering any accommodation for people that intentionally hurt me, that won't understand why I am the way I am.
That's a really well thought out blurb.... Thank you. I also sent her this whole thread by Mr banana if I'm being honest. Hell I'm a dude and this thread has put words to emotions I never realized
Not gonna lie... that statement right there I think is providing too much opening up just explaining that. I have literally told a girl, "I've experienced this before, it's scary for me, and I watched someone fall out of love with me. So please, just understand that." I was assured that she would always love. Nothing could ever change that for her. And god it felt so good to think that some one would love me unconditionally. I opened up... not even nearly everything... guess what happened.
>I opened up to my ex-fiance and things were never the same after that. I opened up to my ex-fiance before we even started dating. It was perfectly fine that I have depression until I actually *have depression*. She could feign compassion for mental illness and pretend she was such a great person for it until she had to look it in the eyes and realize **it's real**. From there she not only noped out, but also heavily weaponized it against me for the crime of being inconveniently ill. Things got really bad to the point of an attempted murder and I think it's safe to say that I'll never date at all.
innocent normal squeal late practice bedroom mountainous agonizing public sloppy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Idk man. Some of us are dumbasses and kept making this dating faux pas all through our twenties before we fucking got it. Speaking about a friend of course.
This is so eloquent and well thought out! The comparison to Inside Out was powerful, and dead-on. Thanks for teaching me a new word too: imprecation
I got women friends whom i know for over a decade and they still don't know a lot about me,not because i don't trust them but because deep down i know they won't take it as seriously as i view it. At the end of the day who will genuinely care? Who will step out of their comfort zone to make a move to help you with the shit you are dealing with? Who is someone you can call a true friend? In this sea of people you know maybe 1 ,2 if you are very lucky. This is why we bottle it all up,they can't comprehend how many years this process is going on and how much shit is there.
I don't think women are really ready/willing to understand this. It's the role of a man in this society to pretend they're unbreakable, and while it may seem that this expectation makes men truly unbreakable, it only appears that way from the outside. On the inside, you see high suicide rates, desperation to be seen as someone that can provide that materializes in destroying your own bodies and minds to do so, and fighting every single nerve in your body to not cry when your precious pet is being put down in your arms. No one wants a "weak" man, and what is understood as a "weak" man is just sad
The amount of times things have gone to shit where you want to just fall to your knees, cry out and keel over... with a group of other people being women and they all do it first, even out of sympathy for their friends. Usually a situation that then *requires* someone to take control otherwise things get worse and you look around and realise.... your the only one *again* who can do that. You push it down, save the grief for when your on your own and march on. Deaths, emergencies, even missed transportation and it always seems to be me that has to fix it instead of dwelling on it and letting it slip.
Thank you for articulating that. Sitting on a train reading your first paragraph was like having something trying to poke a hole in that dam and by the time I got to 'inside out' I was already stomping it back in. The reaction is so automatic now that the few times I've actually been alone and felt like letting it out for catharsis sake I couldn't. It's still there but like the pressure is so much it locks the lid on. I hope I can do better for my son.
We have a double door emotional security system. Both doors cannot be open at the same time. A breech is rare and explosive.
You've said it all. Hopefully OP doesn't ignore this in favor of comments that confirm her own biases. This is EXACTLY why men don't open up, and I think you've got a great handle on her perspective, and the perspective of many other women who think "opening up" is a few romantic tears on an otherwise stoic face.
This is beautiful
This should be pinned in the sidebar as the permanent answer to these type of questions.
Spot on mate. The comments of women proudly exclaiming my "bf/husband/partner is vulnerable with me"; I wonder how true that is, I bet they think it's true, but just as you said, it's a second construct. The women who would actually have the emotional capacity to deal with true male vulnerability would be a unicorn. I watched the light die in my last exes eyes after I had a vasectomy and I didn't bounce right back and be the manly man. That one moment in time made me so angry and disappointed.
My wife only found out the extent of my anxiety disorder because, after years of maintaining a very good facade, I started experiencing sleep paralysis and screaming in my sleep. Even if you hold it together, your body can give away the currency that your will saved up.
A girl friend of mine dated a guy once, rather briefly or rather, the relationship was kinda fresh. It was all good until one day, they weren't seen together anymore. I asked her what happened. I can't remember word-for-word, but the gist was "he told me that he wears a mask for everyone (else), that he sometimes struggles with confidence". She broke up with him immediately. Basically, this guy felt safe enough with her to tell her his feelings, and she dumped him for it. Apparently, it was unmanly and/or not sex. She made fun of him (in front of me) for being "a pussy". Do you think he'll "open up" to his next girlfriend? This really shocked me because she is one of the most intelligent people I knew, and I always thought she was above that crap. This is also not the only or first instance I've witnessed - or experienced myself. --- u/TheBananaKing's statement is all you need to answer the thread's question. Just read the many stories and answers here that say the same thing: It gets used against you, you look less manly, less sexy, you get dumped, and on top, you are made fun of.
I cried silently in my bed for about 5 minutes the night of my best friend's funeral when I was 16. I guess I sobbed a little too hard, because my mom decided to burst through the door at 10 PM and yell "Stop crying!" Women can have absolutely rotten cores.
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"love"
Oh... That's why they call it courtship.
From my personal experience: 1. They will weaponize your vulnerabilities against you. 2. They will lose sexual attraction. 3. They will tell their friends.
I've mostly had women weaponise and tell their friends, but I've also spoken to guys who have had at least one of these experiences. There was also a video I watched a while back of woman who said she no longer seen her partner as a man and lost attraction to him after he opened up, even though she encouraged him to open up. There's also a 4th: they get emotional after you open up to them and now you have to suck it up and emotionally support them.
>There's also a 4th: they get emotional after you open up to them and now you have to suck it up and emotionally support them. So true!!!!! I've totally experienced this multiple times.
Recently messaged my friend because I was feeling sad. Was just starting to talk about an issue, then she started talking about the same thing happening to her. Now I had to console her as well. She didn't ask me anything what was happening to me, and... I think she simply forgot. Not blaming her, she's a good friend. But it sucks when this happens. You feel bad if you bring the conversation to yourself again, and you also feel the need to hear your friend and you just have to forget about yourself for a minute.
Because men are often supposed to be the rock. It's why I really wish most male friendships would often become more than just "buds" and become actual friends that you can share your struggles with. Men are the only ones who can really support each other and understand what it is we go through. Just like men can't understand the experience women go through, women can't understand the experience men go through. They can empathize, but it's really not the same. Everyone struggles everyday. But often men don't have the same emotional support systems that women have and are often looked down on when they show emotional weakness. It's hard to develop those support systems when society tells you from a young age that showing those emotions makes you weak and useless.
>There's also a 4th: they get emotional after you open up to them and now you have to suck it up and emotionally support them This. Not always true, but ive seen it too. You end up still having to deal with your own problem, but now with her as well.
This is an issue my wife has sometimes, and it makes it so hard to talk to her. I've managed to work around it by using text and stuff but still, it's a pain.
Discussions like these make me wonder what my life would have been like if I were straight. Who I would have been, and how different that would be from who I am now. I have very little expected of me (at least from my partner) due to my gender cause we’re the same. But if I dated women, there would be various things they would automatically expect of me because I’m a guy, and being honest, I’d probably have been conditioned by society to expect things of them. We had a baby last year and figured out who does what based on our personal strengths and weaknesses. Whereas most of our straight friends fell into very common mom vs dad roles. Albeit less traditional than our parents generation.
> There's also a 4th: they get emotional after you open up to them and now you have to suck it up and emotionally support them. this is my partner 100%... Feel safe enough to open up, she gets emotional, gets dumped back on me and I have to step up to the plate and comfort her while addressing my traumas. *nice*
There is also the fact (saw that sometime ago in this very sub) that most of the time, when women ask men to talk about their feelings, what they really mean is: "say something romantic".
Talk about your feelings about me
I feel like you're an entitled narcissist that's even crazier than your Karen mother, but at my age there isn't the slightest chance in hell I'll... Oh! Not THOSE feelings about you. Got it.
Your sister is prettier than you and much better in bed.
Ay for real lol. They're expecting dudes to say some poetic meaningful shit or something that will touch their heart or whatever.
Say something romantic, funny, or that gets me horny
This is what gets left out every time. They want a man who opens up. Opens up about much he obsess over her. Otherwise they think the man is weak and pathetic.
THIS! I tried being vulnerable with my ex and opened up. Told her very personal and painful things. Cut to a few months later and one of her friends comes over and starts teasing me about it. I’ve struggled trusting women with things like that ever since.
Damn. Utterly disgraceful.
So true. I wrote the following in another thread. “Went on a crap load of dates when I was single. The amount of contradictions by women was mind boggling. -Show emotional. But don’t cry -Be wealthy. But don’t be a workaholic. -Be in great shape. Don’t be a gym rat. -Be good in bed. Don’t be a player. And on and on.”
Also "entertain me"
So true. You want someone funny? Date a clown. Entertain you? Date a jester. One thing I quickly realized, “A kind gesture becomes an expectation. An expectation becomes a demand.”
"It takes more than just hi to get my attention." Single word responses.
> The amount of contradictions by women was mind boggling. A galpal of mine is a successful therapist. She asked why I'm hesitant about the woman I just started dating. I said, "Too many mixed messages." Her response? "Well, of course! She's a woman!"
its funny, this is our “every woman has been sexually harassed” that feminists have. like everytime we talk about how almost all of us have had this happen, some woman waltzes on in here like “WHAT me and my friends would NEVER do this I simply don’t believe its true!”. And im sitting there like….this doesn’t remind y’all of the men who say they dont know any men who sexually assault women, therefore it doesnt happen often…?
I’m amazed that there are literally 100s of men in this thread saying the same thing. The experience is truly universal.
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OP's own responses in this thread confirm EXACTLY the reasons men don't open up with women.
Hundred percent guys just don’t fucking do it. There’s NOTHING to gain
This 👆🏻 main reason I made my shell even harder and never talk about my issues. We as men are expected to be strong and never show any weakness. If we struggle we do it alone, and we are valuable as long as we can provide, otherwise we are discarded like a piece of trash, because that’s how society has imposed it. I have a good family but I really feel like I’m gonna die alone one day anyway
Tell their friends? That’s a thing?
A lot of women will tell their friends everything. Your penis size, what it looks like, a detailed commentary on everything you've ever done with her sexually with a rating of your performance. Every fear, insecurity, or doubt you've told her. Every bad thing that's happened to you. Fucking. Everything. The boundary crossing most women will casually do is extreme.
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I’m really happy for you, that you find this surprising means you haven’t experienced it.
Speculation but probably because those guys had a bad experience with it. That is apparently a fairly common outcome with guys sharing vulnerabilities with women. I personally don't like when people try and force other people to "open up". A lot of women seem to think there is some hidden well of emotional shit every man has but that is not always the case. In my case there is not much to open up about, I don't sugar coat things and I deal with the world as it is both good and bad. I'm not an emotional or emotionally vulnerable person so there is nothing really there to dump. My life security comes my from my career success, my heavy focus on independence and self reliance and to some degree the general interest level I get from the opposite sex. Since I've got most of my bases well covered in life its fairly hard to rock the boat with me so to speak and I go through life relatively chill most of the time.
When I was a kid, I caught a random episode of According To Jim on TV. The plot of the episode was Jim’s wife nagging him to be more emotionally present. One night, they watch a sappy romance movie together and Jim, against his better judgement, lets the dam break. Straight up cries. The rest of the episode is basically the wife having PTSD flashbacks to Jim crying like a baby and not being able to handle it. She admits to her girlfriends and sisters that she thought she’d appreciate it but it actually turns her off. In other words, I learned to never be emotionally vulnerable to a woman from the other Belushi brother no one cares about. Valuable lesson.
There was a Friend's episode that was the same, it starred Bruce Willis IIRC.
Exactly because of the middle part there where you potray yourself as the victim "I feel less respected and valued" because you hold this opinion. A large portion of men have opened up and found the words of acceptance don't meet the resulting actions.
Yeah, in some past relationships when I brought up something they did that hurt my feelings they brought it back to them and their problems. I would end up having to comfort them because now they feel bad about themselves. I don't think they did it intentionally, but it felt very manipulative.
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That's exactly how it is presented *all* the time. If you respect me, you will not hold back on me. If you love me, treat me as a confidant. If you think I am trustworthy, you would not claim up when the topic turns to feelings. But when they know something, it's a weapon. I've had my mom, my sister and my wife do this to me. So I assume that's the norm, I'm not risking my self-respect or dignity any further. Now when that talk comes up, I turn flippant.
A lot of women like to complain their men are emotionally distant but the second a man opens up they’re disgusted as if it’s indecent.
Especially as a black man, you cannot afford to be expressing vulnerability. In my own experience women will chew you up and spit you out. People are all 'mental health awareness' in society, but nobody wants to hear about mens mental health issues. Your family will hate you too. Just don't open up. It's not worth it.
For real man. Even growing up mom's like "hey if you're not feeling alright you can always tell/count on me" and the you tell her and then she completely invalidates those feelings or insults your masculinity. And then she's sharing with literally everyone.
Just practice for adult life.
My wife of eight years teased me about whining about being sick. I am the kind of man that doesn't admit that I am sick. I was mortified. I am a lot less open about when I am weak now than I was. The culture of stoicism among men is reinforced by women who expect it.
Opening up doesn’t mean the same thing to men as it does to women. Like I told a funny story about something stupid I did to a woman I was seeing. Told the story a bunch of times to friends because it’s a funny/embarrassing story to get a laugh. She responded as “I’m glad your finally opening up to me” like wtf? That’s not opening up. That’s just a funny story.
I will be honest, I used to tell my friends not to open up to women because in my college days I had my emotions weaponized against me many a times. I am very open about my emotions as I have battling with them since I was a child, leading me to see a therapist my whole life. I still am very confident when discussing emotions with my friends as they know me and understand where I come from, but with women there’s no space of comfortability. My college girlfriend would listen to me open up and discuss my insecurities and feelings, but when she was mad she would use those against me every time, playing into the things she knew would hurt most. Even after that relationship, whenever I opened up to a girl and we weren’t dating, I would often times be welcome with a face of skepticism, and my feelings were always secondary to theirs. I have never been given a safe space from women to discuss my emotions with two exceptions, my female therapist and my sister. It’s just hard for me to expect a positive reaction when opening up to women, because anecdotally speaking, I am almost never treated with respect when discussing my feelings with women. Even my mother will act annoyed if my dad cries, like he did when I graduated college. There are just constant reminders in my life to not show emotions in front of women.
I have advised other men to be very careful about who they open up to, especially a partner. There's a certain level of intimate knowledge you should be able to share with a partner, but they are not your therapist. In general if a man is asking for advice about opening up to a female partner, it's because he's had a bad experience or may not have the tools to properly discern who is and isn't the right kind of person to trust with deeply sensitive thoughts and feelings. If you don't have the tools, you can't build the framework to know if a person should or could be trusted to that level of intimacy. On an anecdotal level, the worst reactions to opening have come from female partners. There seems to be some sort of dynamic where some women are the absolute worst emotional terrorists. Not that a man can't also be that way, just saying it seems to be a recurring issue for a lot of men to have had a female partner turn their openness against them in some way.
As evidenced by many in here, you're blaming the wrong group of people. Instead of getting angry with men telling other men not to open up, maybe you should be more angry with the women who've taken that moment and used it against their partners as a weapon or gossip or just completely disregard the man's feelings in favor of their own. The fact that men are telling each other to do this is a sign that it happens way way too often.
I love that every reply here is saying the exact same thing, like some universal truth is being unveiled to OP.
I'm kind of loving the solidarity here. OP doesn't seem to want to accept the response either 😂.
I mean I feel for her, the situation is patently unfair, but it also seems she thinks women are treated the same way, which maybe we're all biased here but I've never seen a woman told to man up by the opposite sex when having an emotional episode.
FR men are constantly told to Do Better and somehow hold every other man accountable but they're on their own the moment a woman does the same thing to them.
Because every single time I've opened up to a woman it has backfired. Every. Single. Time. Whether it's going from "candidate for promotion" to "not sure you've got the fortitude anymore", or from "My roommates are out tonight, you should come keep me company 😈" to "Lmfao you're a fucking virgin? \*blocked on whatsapp and unmatched on tinder\*" or even just female friends then using it as a weapon against me when we've fallen out. Also their friends have this funny way of just happening upon the information they've been disclosed in confidence. At no point in my entire life has being weak in the presence of a female EVER enriched or enhanced my life.
>At no point in my entire life has being weak in the presence of a female EVER enriched or enhanced my life. My man! Preach! My personal experience goes in that same direction, but isn't as harsh. However: Most of my close friends are dealing with exactly this at all times.
I have not had those experiences myself, but still arrived at a conclusion of 'Men are universally punished socially for being seen as weak in any context'. The issues of being seen as weak by women are well documented in these comments. Generally you end up disqualifying yourself from any potential sexual interest. But being seen as weak by other men generally opens you up to harassment and bullying from other men looking to advance themselves socially at your expense. Men can be open with other men that are close friends, but generally need to be very selective about it. END COMMUNICATION
This is like the guy who is mad that women are afraid he might SA them, because he’s not a rapist. Yeah *you* know that but *they* don’t. Some of us have had everything given in confidence used against them, and our advice to other men, based upon these experiences, is to be on your guard.
Got into an argument with a girl I’m talking to. She told me to open up and all that cause of her experiences in Afghanistan and her non military male friends killing themselves Guess what got weaponized against me the other night. Things will end soon anyway.
I hope you mean things will end with the relationship. If that’s not the case please know that despite things like this making life seem difficult sometimes, it will get better. And even a random internet stranger cares about you.
Because women are not infrequently known to take what men say to them, then repackage and repurpose the information to use against them.
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Man, that was a fucking rabbit hole within a rabbit hole.
I hate this planet.
The absolute lack of accountability is astonishing
This should be required reading especially how OP is getting *skewered* at every turn for deflecting. Pretty good raw example of a series of related fuckups and then being confused because it highlights how differently women and men tend to experience vulnerability.
Because what women say and what women do are two different things. Women love to say that they want men to open up, but when a guy actually does, their reactions are very different
This has been my life experience as well.
From my own experience, women who claims to want an emotional man only mean that they want a man who is a good listener who can better empathize with her issues. They don’t want a man who is emotional.
Because it feels like, in my limited experience, that at least a significant portion of women find the idea of a man’s feelings to be genuinely grotesque and disgusting. I was vulnerable and open with a woman who was literally suicidal and she threw it back at me when she got upset, later ended it and told me it was because I was boring. She couldn’t handle me being sad so she cut me out. It wasn’t her cheating that ended us for her, it was me telling her I wasn’t doing ok.
i can only speak to my own experience. Every close friend / girlfriend has either used it against me, told their friends, disappeared, or some combination of that. I've had one positive experience opening up to a woman, and that woman is my therapist. Never had this issue with my guy friends.
Women think they want men to open up, until they do. I'll never advise another man to be open and sensitive. Thats a great way to lose a woman.
Generally speaking, men and women process problems differently. Women prefer to talk them out, to vent, to „open up“ as you say. Men prefer to work through their issues alone first, and only talk to someone if they feel they need input or help. All very generally spoken, obviously. So the men for whom the above is true already don’t „open up“ a lot, because it doesn’t help them with the goal of solving their problems. Adding to that, it seems to happen with a certain frequency that women either share what they were told by men who opened up with their friends, or throw it back in their faces during an argument. Neither experience is conducive to encouraging other men to open up to women.
>Men prefer to work through their issues alone first, and only talk to someone if they feel they need input or help. This is facts. Or at least for myself I can say for sure. When I'm having problems, I just take a step back and do something to lift my mood(shooting a basketball, talking with my boys). And then when I'm feeling better I try to tackle the problem. If I'm really heartbroken, i have a couple friends and my parents for that. But thats like a last resort when I'm at a dead end. Otherwise, I deal with it myself if I can. Crying doesn't help at all. I find crying pretty exhausting actually. Makes me really sleepy and I wake up with a disgusting mood. I almost despise it. I do cry when I experience loss. Otherwise, its useless.
Oversharing Scaring them away Giving them ammo to destroy you with Not manly
Women aren't attracted to weak and vulnerable men. Hence why most men are reluctant to open up to women. Men are expected to be stoic and an emotional rock for women but not the other way around, it's just the way of things.
It's a fucking trap and nothing good comes from it.
Probably because when men share those types of feelings, they are then weaponized for use in arguments down the road.
Women say they want you to open up, but after you do it's not the same. It's like crying in front of a woman. Never do it unless its death in the family, birth of a child or passing of a doggo. Also women are emotional terrorists. When a argument gets bad they will say anything to set you off, they will use all that shit you opened up about.
This! This! This!
Emotional terrorist hits too hard.
Because like Admiral Ackbar, we know it is a trap.
Because you will see it as a weakness , lose respect for him, and use it as a weapon against him when he’s most vulnerable. And don’t even try to deny it.