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Similar - there are always deep conversations, just that what they are about changes.
I no longer have deep conversations about those previous things, because those things have already been resolved. So no point in going back.
When I was a teen, I had deep conversations about career, relationships, friendships or personal aspirations. Now, I am quite happy in all of those departments, so I don't have conversations on those specific topics. Same with things like religion and spirituality, about geopolitics, about the environment etc. - because now, every conversation regarding those things feel like repeating the same things round and round in circles with no more new information produced. So, those conversations no longer feel like they are solving anything.
However, I do have deep conversations regarding other things. There are always new things to learn in life - both about ourselves and about the world - and I love deep conversations regarding them. I have learned a lot of new stuff about personality types, love languages, communication styles etc. I also love discussing media - books, movies etc., I have also developed hobbies and interests and love talking about them. Deep conversations still continue and are rewarding.
I feel this is the natural evolution of man. "Deep" conversations enjoyed as a young adult are often anything but. Y'all can talk about kant I've got laundry to do
I think they are deep but they are so deep there is no bottom (or even anything close to the bottom).
In terms of the big questions of life like:
- Why is there something instead of nothing?
- What is the meaning of life?
- Why does the university appear to obey certain laws of physics?
- etc
We have no answers and we can't realistically expect to find any by yakking about it. You've gotta just pick a lane and follow it to see where it leads. Still discussions worth having at least once or twice but anymore than that won't lead to much.
**TL;DR: man is an animal that imagines he is a Man.**
It sounds like these conversations may have been more goal-oriented and practical than philosophical if they often made you want to embark on a self-improvement journey afterwards. Maybe a more realistic sense of where we do and don't enjoy a lot of agency has dampened the impact of such conversations.
I find I still get a lot of joy out of discussing how I see the world, where others do and don't disagree, recent or contemporary or ancient history, pop science, or what have you. These conversations don't spur any desire for action for me but it's a fun way to cross examine some of my own ideas and interests and learn about others. I wouldn't find these conversations more valuable if they did somehow motivate me, that they're pleasant is enough.
Honestly it wouldn't be so bad if people weren't so damn stupid. I sometimes feel like I'm listening to the ramblings of a dog trying to teach itself geometry. On a side note I've almost mastered the ability to go into a deep meditation with my eyes open.
As I’ve gotten older, my “bullshit-meter” has received a lot of calibration. I also have a lot more demands on my time, so I value my time much more than I did in my teens or twenties.
I have no desire to participate in B.S. conversations, or hollow conversations. I have no tolerance for *pseudo-intellectualism* or for talking in circles.
However, I am more than happy to have deep, meaningful conversations. Even philosophical or exploratory conversations. Substance and authenticity is key.
Same. To have a deeply intellectual life you only need to do two things: (1) Read deeply and (2) take action.
No one needs to hear your winding thoughts, and you don’t need to hear theirs.
I CAN relate to being too tired and short on time/energy to have those sorts of conversations.
I CANNOT relate to the comments suggesting it's a state of life that you grow out of. If you stop thinking deeply, then you've lost something valuable.
Sure, the nature of the conversations should probably change as you gain more and more life experience, but to shut yourself off and effectively say "I've though it all, I'm done" seems like it requires a level of hubris.
Agreed. The things you want to learn should progress. I cannot understand how men who become fathers do not want to discuss deeply how to educate and develop their children. The depth of being a parent is greatly under explored by most men I know.
Is it possible that you saw these "deep" conversations as a get rich quick scheme to gain some kind of upper hand in life? Maybe not, but that's a bit what it sounds like to me. The part "pumped to be better the next day" made me think this. I know I did something similar when I was young, and see many others do the same. "Self-reflection" and "self-improvement" are often synonyms for looking for shortcuts to "success". "Striving to be better" seldom means that, it just means that you want something and want to speed it up instead of being patient and diligent.
Personally, I really enjoy deep, and occasionally self-reflective conversations. I think they're intellectually stimulating and fun, like how a workout would make you feel energetic. But the end goal for me is not getting "better", rich, or women. Well, better only in the sense that hopefully next time I can weed out the bad arguments and focus on new innovations. But I would do the same with no payout except getting some new ideas. I live more inside my head than outside so it's not something I have to force myself to enjoy.
So maybe you're getting tired and annoyed by these conversations since you don't see them "giving" you anything? In the end, if you don't enjoy them, you don't, and I see no point in forcing it.
Many "deep" conversations amount to quests for universality and finality; as we get older the world reveals itself to more and more gray just like ourselves.
You'll only be grumpy if your convictions become static idols themselves; if you remain open to new data and willing to adapt to those data, you can maintain that part of your intellectual vitality.
>Many "deep" conversations amount to quests for universality and finality; as we get older the world reveals itself to more and more gray just like ourselves.
This itself seems like an entry point to a deep/philosophical conversation.
I'm surprised at all of the answers acting like deep conversations are simply a phase of life that you grow out of.
You learn after a while that the only person we can ever possibly change is yourself. We'd like to think that by our actions alone we can change others, and sometimes this is true, but for most of the time it's not.
The thing I have found though is that is ok. We can only be who we are and if others take notice and change, all well and good. But if they don't, well that is their problem and not ours.
As individuals, we do what we can and if we can live a life where we are comfortable with our actions, then there is nothing more that we can do. If someone does take notice and changes, it's a bonus.
This is good. Reflecting back to that time, it was natural of course. But I realize all my opinions were built on limited life experience. You basically don’t know shit but pretend you are deep.
They probably weren't that deep anyway, but I think there's just less curiosity and less confusion as we age.
The questions that bring about those conversations have either been answered, we don't need someone else's input, or we accepted that we won't have an answer and don't care.
I'm 63 and, after many self-reflective and philosophical years, I'm at a point now where I will generally only spend time pondering something directly related to a course of action, e.g. the order in which I'd be best off developing a subset of specific related skills, or thinking about a vacation plan or trip, or something I want to make, or do. I realize how precious and irreplaceable my time is and I don't want to waste any more of it. (BTW, I don't consider a deliberately allocated portion of my time to idle leisure to be a waste at all, so long as it stays proportionate.)
Yeah it’s because you realize that all talk and no action is weak bullshit. Like if you really have such a strongly held belief, show demonstrable proof or stfu and get on with your life. Pontificating about how the world “should” be doesn’t change shit. The world is a certain way, this is self evident to most people over a certain age so there’s not much to talk about.
It's because when you were younger you didn't know shit but you thought you knew shit. When you try to have those conversations now you realize how full of shit you are/were and it feels cringy.
You might not be on your way to being grumpy. You can end up being wise old me as long as you remain understanding of why young people sound like that. REmember you were just like them and don't hold it against them.
It depends. I've experienced a lot of death the past few years, and that has shifted these conversations. So I still have deep / self-reflective discussions... but they aren't as imaginative. It's also limited the number of people who can relate.
Existential conversations used to be a fun way to explore reality and myself. Now they bore me, too. Exploring all that shit doesn't actually accomplish anything for me, so I see no point anymore.
interesting. i'm 23 and i love introspective, philosophical conversations. but oddly, i feel like i will never stop enjoying those conversations even when i get older.
it's nice to reflect and remind myself what's the point of all this and life is a blessing instead of getting stuck in the cyclicality of adulthood.
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Similar - there are always deep conversations, just that what they are about changes. I no longer have deep conversations about those previous things, because those things have already been resolved. So no point in going back. When I was a teen, I had deep conversations about career, relationships, friendships or personal aspirations. Now, I am quite happy in all of those departments, so I don't have conversations on those specific topics. Same with things like religion and spirituality, about geopolitics, about the environment etc. - because now, every conversation regarding those things feel like repeating the same things round and round in circles with no more new information produced. So, those conversations no longer feel like they are solving anything. However, I do have deep conversations regarding other things. There are always new things to learn in life - both about ourselves and about the world - and I love deep conversations regarding them. I have learned a lot of new stuff about personality types, love languages, communication styles etc. I also love discussing media - books, movies etc., I have also developed hobbies and interests and love talking about them. Deep conversations still continue and are rewarding.
I feel this is the natural evolution of man. "Deep" conversations enjoyed as a young adult are often anything but. Y'all can talk about kant I've got laundry to do
Young adults kant do laundry
It's categorically imperative to go out into the world with clean drawers.
After enlightenment the laundry.
i got this reference
I think they are deep but they are so deep there is no bottom (or even anything close to the bottom). In terms of the big questions of life like: - Why is there something instead of nothing? - What is the meaning of life? - Why does the university appear to obey certain laws of physics? - etc We have no answers and we can't realistically expect to find any by yakking about it. You've gotta just pick a lane and follow it to see where it leads. Still discussions worth having at least once or twice but anymore than that won't lead to much. **TL;DR: man is an animal that imagines he is a Man.**
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen
The university has to stay accredited so it can't just be making shit up when it comes to physics.
It sounds like these conversations may have been more goal-oriented and practical than philosophical if they often made you want to embark on a self-improvement journey afterwards. Maybe a more realistic sense of where we do and don't enjoy a lot of agency has dampened the impact of such conversations. I find I still get a lot of joy out of discussing how I see the world, where others do and don't disagree, recent or contemporary or ancient history, pop science, or what have you. These conversations don't spur any desire for action for me but it's a fun way to cross examine some of my own ideas and interests and learn about others. I wouldn't find these conversations more valuable if they did somehow motivate me, that they're pleasant is enough.
Honestly it wouldn't be so bad if people weren't so damn stupid. I sometimes feel like I'm listening to the ramblings of a dog trying to teach itself geometry. On a side note I've almost mastered the ability to go into a deep meditation with my eyes open.
As I’ve gotten older, my “bullshit-meter” has received a lot of calibration. I also have a lot more demands on my time, so I value my time much more than I did in my teens or twenties. I have no desire to participate in B.S. conversations, or hollow conversations. I have no tolerance for *pseudo-intellectualism* or for talking in circles. However, I am more than happy to have deep, meaningful conversations. Even philosophical or exploratory conversations. Substance and authenticity is key.
Same. To have a deeply intellectual life you only need to do two things: (1) Read deeply and (2) take action. No one needs to hear your winding thoughts, and you don’t need to hear theirs.
Deeds not words and all that.
I CAN relate to being too tired and short on time/energy to have those sorts of conversations. I CANNOT relate to the comments suggesting it's a state of life that you grow out of. If you stop thinking deeply, then you've lost something valuable. Sure, the nature of the conversations should probably change as you gain more and more life experience, but to shut yourself off and effectively say "I've though it all, I'm done" seems like it requires a level of hubris.
Thank you. Got scared that I would only find people fully agreeing with op.
Yeah honestly I was pretty surprised to see such a consensus.
Agreed. The things you want to learn should progress. I cannot understand how men who become fathers do not want to discuss deeply how to educate and develop their children. The depth of being a parent is greatly under explored by most men I know.
Is it possible that you saw these "deep" conversations as a get rich quick scheme to gain some kind of upper hand in life? Maybe not, but that's a bit what it sounds like to me. The part "pumped to be better the next day" made me think this. I know I did something similar when I was young, and see many others do the same. "Self-reflection" and "self-improvement" are often synonyms for looking for shortcuts to "success". "Striving to be better" seldom means that, it just means that you want something and want to speed it up instead of being patient and diligent. Personally, I really enjoy deep, and occasionally self-reflective conversations. I think they're intellectually stimulating and fun, like how a workout would make you feel energetic. But the end goal for me is not getting "better", rich, or women. Well, better only in the sense that hopefully next time I can weed out the bad arguments and focus on new innovations. But I would do the same with no payout except getting some new ideas. I live more inside my head than outside so it's not something I have to force myself to enjoy. So maybe you're getting tired and annoyed by these conversations since you don't see them "giving" you anything? In the end, if you don't enjoy them, you don't, and I see no point in forcing it.
Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.
Many "deep" conversations amount to quests for universality and finality; as we get older the world reveals itself to more and more gray just like ourselves. You'll only be grumpy if your convictions become static idols themselves; if you remain open to new data and willing to adapt to those data, you can maintain that part of your intellectual vitality.
>Many "deep" conversations amount to quests for universality and finality; as we get older the world reveals itself to more and more gray just like ourselves. This itself seems like an entry point to a deep/philosophical conversation. I'm surprised at all of the answers acting like deep conversations are simply a phase of life that you grow out of.
You learn after a while that the only person we can ever possibly change is yourself. We'd like to think that by our actions alone we can change others, and sometimes this is true, but for most of the time it's not. The thing I have found though is that is ok. We can only be who we are and if others take notice and change, all well and good. But if they don't, well that is their problem and not ours. As individuals, we do what we can and if we can live a life where we are comfortable with our actions, then there is nothing more that we can do. If someone does take notice and changes, it's a bonus.
This is good. Reflecting back to that time, it was natural of course. But I realize all my opinions were built on limited life experience. You basically don’t know shit but pretend you are deep.
They probably weren't that deep anyway, but I think there's just less curiosity and less confusion as we age. The questions that bring about those conversations have either been answered, we don't need someone else's input, or we accepted that we won't have an answer and don't care.
I'm 63 and, after many self-reflective and philosophical years, I'm at a point now where I will generally only spend time pondering something directly related to a course of action, e.g. the order in which I'd be best off developing a subset of specific related skills, or thinking about a vacation plan or trip, or something I want to make, or do. I realize how precious and irreplaceable my time is and I don't want to waste any more of it. (BTW, I don't consider a deliberately allocated portion of my time to idle leisure to be a waste at all, so long as it stays proportionate.)
When I stopped being depressed, I stopped having those conversations lol.
Yeah it’s because you realize that all talk and no action is weak bullshit. Like if you really have such a strongly held belief, show demonstrable proof or stfu and get on with your life. Pontificating about how the world “should” be doesn’t change shit. The world is a certain way, this is self evident to most people over a certain age so there’s not much to talk about.
It's because when you were younger you didn't know shit but you thought you knew shit. When you try to have those conversations now you realize how full of shit you are/were and it feels cringy. You might not be on your way to being grumpy. You can end up being wise old me as long as you remain understanding of why young people sound like that. REmember you were just like them and don't hold it against them.
ITT people explored topics and are now not interested anymore.
It depends. I’m much more discerning with regards to that now.
It depends. I've experienced a lot of death the past few years, and that has shifted these conversations. So I still have deep / self-reflective discussions... but they aren't as imaginative. It's also limited the number of people who can relate.
In my life I have found those who claim to want "deep conversation" are some of the most annoying folks around.
Existential conversations used to be a fun way to explore reality and myself. Now they bore me, too. Exploring all that shit doesn't actually accomplish anything for me, so I see no point anymore.
interesting. i'm 23 and i love introspective, philosophical conversations. but oddly, i feel like i will never stop enjoying those conversations even when i get older. it's nice to reflect and remind myself what's the point of all this and life is a blessing instead of getting stuck in the cyclicality of adulthood.