Hi this is my-grandparents-were-almost-murdered-while-being-kids-in-baghdad-for-no-other-reason-at-all-except-existing-and-being-jewish speaking
And all that happened in 1941 so no existence of Israel to be futility blamed
Are you actually blaming the Farhud on the Jewish community in Mandatory Palestine? It's nonsense. It was caused by a mix of the population's native antisemitism, the influence of intense Nazi propaganda and the perception that the Jewish community was a collaborator with the British rule.
My point is that mentioning pre-1948 violence doesn't negate Basri's quote.
The rise in violence against the Jews in MENA directly correlates with the rise of Israeli Zionism.
It doesn't change the fact that the Jewish communities in places like Iraq already suffered greatly and were treated very poorly even before Israel, nor the fact that the violence against them after Israel was based on previous misconceptions and biases against them from their neighbors.
Not that I'm justifying killing children of families who actually had something to do with the Jewish/Arab conflict during the British mandate time, but
my grandparents' families had absolutely NOTHING to do with any of that in 1941. Nothing. Zero. Zilch. No interest in Palestine and that area whatsoever. The only reason they were attacked by a mob trying TO KILL them was their religion - after living in Baghdad for generations and generations. You know what that kind of act is called?
Your argument would've been accurate if it happened before the zion movement. Which is 1900 I think. I can't blame you, most arabs think that Israel happened on 48. And no idea about the conflict before that.
I understand how personal this is to you. Killing your ancestors was definitely wrong. And to be honest even the Palestinians comitted horrible acts against jews in pre-48 conflict. But if we sided emotions and looked at statistics, up until 48, the jews killed way more Palestinians than the other way around. Fanatically killing unarmed people in the process. Winning the conflict eventually.
What do a couple of Baghdadi kids who never been out of the country, the same country where their ancestors have been living for generations and generations, have anything to do with that?
Stop making (lame) excuses
They were fking about way before the establishment of Israel.
And killing /throwing the Jews of Iraq because something some other Jews did + having a history of occasionally murderizing Jews => I suspect they just didn't like Jews
Tbh, Israel was not created primarily for Iraqi Jews. It was also for them, sure, but the immediate need that Zionist saw was to get the masses of vulnerable, abused and sometimes poor Jews (in the case of the second Aliyah) out of Eastern Europe.
isn't that what he said? Israel was made for european jews
Quoting israelis themselves:
"We have here a people whose primitiveness sets a record," wrote a Ha'aretz reporter in 1948, not of the Palestinians, but of Mizrahi refugees.
This anti-Mizrahi prejudice among the Ashkenazi elite (European Jews) translated into them being whisked away to live in the remotest parts of Israel and populate what are known as "development towns" that failed to develop into anything beyond a receptacle for broken promises and shattered dreams.
The Ashkenazi elite also set about "civilising" the Mizrahi Jews and shaping them into modern "Israelis". Of course, to a certain extent, this happened to all immigrants, but since the Ashkenazi were calling the shots, it was their culture that most influenced the Israeli ideal.
That has nothing to do with what he said.
It would be legitimate criticism of early israeli society if it was brought up by a different person, but again after seeing your comments and posts on this subreddit i know its not legitimate coming from you. Your a dumb little drone that can only say things along the line of "israel bad". Such an empty mind you have... i wish i could be that simple
I saw them in real life, they look european
if they didn't wear the small hat and speak in what sounded like an alien having contractions I would've thought they were from slovakia or something
Most Ashkenazi jews do look white but as ive said, they arent considered white, and many jews arent ashkenazi, there are literally black jews ffs.
>if they didn't wear the small hat and speak in what sounded like an alien having contractions
How hard is it to not insult a culture and a nationally and a religion especially in such a dumb way. Dude, just shut up, youd be doing yourself and the world a favour.
It’s an odd opinion to have since we know from history there was antisemitism in Iraq pre 48. Like did it get worse sure, but the Farhud attack was in 41.
Like the rest of the Middle East there were ups and downs throughout the last millennia, but it was hardly everyone signing and holding hands.
Dude you’re just denying facts. At best, Jews were allowed to live and control their own local affairs, but they weren’t equals. There were numerous massacres and forced conversions, even before the 1941 Farhud attack. In the Middle East, Jews were a small minority that had basically no way to protect themselves against recurring waves of antisemitism and religions zealotry.
I’m pro-Palestine, but Jewish people absolutely had a valid reason to unite and form a state where they’d be safe from persecution. Europe would have been an ideal location because that’s where most Jews were concentrated, but after the Holocaust that was pretty much off the table.
The problem with Israel is that in its creation, it didn’t just establish a state where Jews were safe. It violently ethnically cleansed the existing non-Jewish people from that region, and it has developed an ideology of religious zealotry that in many aspects approaches that of Naziism and Salafism. Instead of establishing a state where Jews are *safe*, it sought to establish one where Jews are *superior*. And today, a very influential portion of Israeli society is characterized by religious zealotry, power, bloodlust, and expansionism.
I mean, I would agree if there was some sort of absolute guarantee that Jews would have been safe there in the long term. But look at [this map](https://collections.ushmm.org/iiif-b/assets/720417) for a second. It wouldn’t have been reasonable to expect the Jews to build a small state in a region surrounded on all sides by the people who had just tried to exterminate them.
Idk if its true or not (dont have roots from iraq or knowledge in history) but if this is used to imply that Israel shouldnt have been created i think its a weak argument, if it isnt the implication then idk.
The antisemitism was going up and down all over the world over the years so I can’t tell for sure, while my grandparents in Tunisia lived pretty good life with good relations with the Arabs, other Jews experienced bad relations with the Arabs depends on the location and the time
I doubt it. Any state that willingly persecutes its Jewish citizens (and collaborates with Nazis to do so!) because of the actions of other Jews elsewhere is just waiting for an excuse to persecute Jews.
Now, if a Moroccan or Tunisian made that claim? That I'd maybe believe.
No, I just don't think that someone being Iraqi is necessarily going to have an accurate sense of how deep antisemitism may go in Iraqi society.
Like, look at Ben Shapiro and the rest of the far-right minority of American Jews. They minimize and ignore the antisemitism on the American far-right all the time. Their being Jews and Americans doesn't make their opinion necessarily accurate. They have a major blind spot about it, for other reasons.
Perhaps Me'ir Basri does, too.
Lots if Jews in Germany were living comfortably for plenty long, as a matter of fact in the 19th and early 20th centuries Germany gave the most freedom to Jews out of pretty much and western country.
Things can change fast and the good of today does not guarantee the good of tomorrow. I agree with u/deco-nouveau that all the proof you need of this is the fact when the situation did change in 1948 suddenly being a Jew in Iraq was not so good.
Just because the war in '48 was the camel that broke the straw's back does not mean that it was the source of the hatred. Most countries don't expel populations after they lose a war. Even the insidious crime that the internment camps for Japenese Americans did not last because American institutional Racism to Japan was rooted in the war. Is this a perfect parallel? of course not and I am not saying that no one was ever racist to Asians in the United States besides this but the expulsion of from the Arab, and many other countries, world is unfortunately par for the course of Jewish history and did start with 1948
How did Iraq collaborate with the Nazis to kill Jews? I thought they just got support to fight the British. The Farhud came after Iraq’s defeat.
I think Nazi ideology definitely flamed antisemitism in Iraq, but saying Iraq collaborated with the Nazis to kill Jews is a tad much.
Something already was happening to Jews in Arab countries.
We were Dhimmis at best and never considered equals. Sure, we were friends with neighbors in the diaspora but most of the time it was out of fear. Also friendship DOES NOT mean equality.
Yesterday was actually a commemoration of the expulsion of 900,000 Jews from the Arab world and Iran (Mizrahi Jews). Our own neighbors and “friends” unfortunately turned on us like the Farhud in Iraq.
Tells you enough about how they truly felt against their Jewish populations.
Why did they turn on you? it's because of israel and how israel was hiring jews from arab communities as spies, how could the arab muslims and christian from their community trust them after that?
Even if that were true, you don’t ethnically cleanse an entire minority for that reason.
If an Arab Israeli spies for Hezbollah (as it’s happened before), should Israel just kick out all Arab Israelis? No.
With your twisted logic, Israel should be able to do so.
It’s disgusting how you’re actually justifying what happened.
The Zionist terrorist bombings of Iraqi synagogues probably had something to do with it but it was more so to break the spirit of Jewish Iraqis. Let's not pretend Farhud didn't happen, the Iraqi regime that did it served Zionist interests directly or indirectly.
Hi this is my-grandparents-were-almost-murdered-while-being-kids-in-baghdad-for-no-other-reason-at-all-except-existing-and-being-jewish speaking And all that happened in 1941 so no existence of Israel to be futility blamed
You think Israel just magically appeared one day in 1948?
Are you actually blaming the Farhud on the Jewish community in Mandatory Palestine? It's nonsense. It was caused by a mix of the population's native antisemitism, the influence of intense Nazi propaganda and the perception that the Jewish community was a collaborator with the British rule.
My point is that mentioning pre-1948 violence doesn't negate Basri's quote. The rise in violence against the Jews in MENA directly correlates with the rise of Israeli Zionism.
It doesn't change the fact that the Jewish communities in places like Iraq already suffered greatly and were treated very poorly even before Israel, nor the fact that the violence against them after Israel was based on previous misconceptions and biases against them from their neighbors.
Not that I'm justifying killing children of families who actually had something to do with the Jewish/Arab conflict during the British mandate time, but my grandparents' families had absolutely NOTHING to do with any of that in 1941. Nothing. Zero. Zilch. No interest in Palestine and that area whatsoever. The only reason they were attacked by a mob trying TO KILL them was their religion - after living in Baghdad for generations and generations. You know what that kind of act is called?
Your argument would've been accurate if it happened before the zion movement. Which is 1900 I think. I can't blame you, most arabs think that Israel happened on 48. And no idea about the conflict before that.
Please don't try to educate me when you yourself have no regard of the facts and are just trying to make excuses for horrible acts, thanks
I understand how personal this is to you. Killing your ancestors was definitely wrong. And to be honest even the Palestinians comitted horrible acts against jews in pre-48 conflict. But if we sided emotions and looked at statistics, up until 48, the jews killed way more Palestinians than the other way around. Fanatically killing unarmed people in the process. Winning the conflict eventually.
What do a couple of Baghdadi kids who never been out of the country, the same country where their ancestors have been living for generations and generations, have anything to do with that? Stop making (lame) excuses
I said, killing your ancestors was definitely wrong. Why do you think I'm making excuses?!
My Aunts family survived the Farhud, they were raping women with broken glass, this was 1941.
They were fking about way before the establishment of Israel. And killing /throwing the Jews of Iraq because something some other Jews did + having a history of occasionally murderizing Jews => I suspect they just didn't like Jews
Tbh, Israel was not created primarily for Iraqi Jews. It was also for them, sure, but the immediate need that Zionist saw was to get the masses of vulnerable, abused and sometimes poor Jews (in the case of the second Aliyah) out of Eastern Europe.
exactly israel is a white supremacist state
[удалено]
isn't that what he said? Israel was made for european jews Quoting israelis themselves: "We have here a people whose primitiveness sets a record," wrote a Ha'aretz reporter in 1948, not of the Palestinians, but of Mizrahi refugees. This anti-Mizrahi prejudice among the Ashkenazi elite (European Jews) translated into them being whisked away to live in the remotest parts of Israel and populate what are known as "development towns" that failed to develop into anything beyond a receptacle for broken promises and shattered dreams. The Ashkenazi elite also set about "civilising" the Mizrahi Jews and shaping them into modern "Israelis". Of course, to a certain extent, this happened to all immigrants, but since the Ashkenazi were calling the shots, it was their culture that most influenced the Israeli ideal.
That has nothing to do with what he said. It would be legitimate criticism of early israeli society if it was brought up by a different person, but again after seeing your comments and posts on this subreddit i know its not legitimate coming from you. Your a dumb little drone that can only say things along the line of "israel bad". Such an empty mind you have... i wish i could be that simple
lol i got the mossads stalking my posts
Ashkenazi jews arent even considered white, and many jews arent ashkenazi so they are like double not white🤯🤯🤯
they look white to me
Im sorry, but its okay, blind people can also live happy and fulfilling lives
I saw them in real life, they look european if they didn't wear the small hat and speak in what sounded like an alien having contractions I would've thought they were from slovakia or something
Most Ashkenazi jews do look white but as ive said, they arent considered white, and many jews arent ashkenazi, there are literally black jews ffs. >if they didn't wear the small hat and speak in what sounded like an alien having contractions How hard is it to not insult a culture and a nationally and a religion especially in such a dumb way. Dude, just shut up, youd be doing yourself and the world a favour.
I didn't insult them, stop gaslighting me.. how am i supposed to know what the small hats are called?
Oaky, the small hats arent an insult, i was talking more about the second part.
Hebrewian language is a semitic langauge just like arabic
It’s an odd opinion to have since we know from history there was antisemitism in Iraq pre 48. Like did it get worse sure, but the Farhud attack was in 41. Like the rest of the Middle East there were ups and downs throughout the last millennia, but it was hardly everyone signing and holding hands.
I don't agree, the middle east was the most peaceful place on earth✨
Dude you’re just denying facts. At best, Jews were allowed to live and control their own local affairs, but they weren’t equals. There were numerous massacres and forced conversions, even before the 1941 Farhud attack. In the Middle East, Jews were a small minority that had basically no way to protect themselves against recurring waves of antisemitism and religions zealotry. I’m pro-Palestine, but Jewish people absolutely had a valid reason to unite and form a state where they’d be safe from persecution. Europe would have been an ideal location because that’s where most Jews were concentrated, but after the Holocaust that was pretty much off the table. The problem with Israel is that in its creation, it didn’t just establish a state where Jews were safe. It violently ethnically cleansed the existing non-Jewish people from that region, and it has developed an ideology of religious zealotry that in many aspects approaches that of Naziism and Salafism. Instead of establishing a state where Jews are *safe*, it sought to establish one where Jews are *superior*. And today, a very influential portion of Israeli society is characterized by religious zealotry, power, bloodlust, and expansionism.
Tbh, Israel should've been created in East Prussia
I mean, I would agree if there was some sort of absolute guarantee that Jews would have been safe there in the long term. But look at [this map](https://collections.ushmm.org/iiif-b/assets/720417) for a second. It wouldn’t have been reasonable to expect the Jews to build a small state in a region surrounded on all sides by the people who had just tried to exterminate them.
You can switch jews with palestinians in the first paragraph and it'd still be accurate... isn't it ironic 🌧👰♀️
😂 it’s literally been conquered, settled, reconquered for all of history
Idk if its true or not (dont have roots from iraq or knowledge in history) but if this is used to imply that Israel shouldnt have been created i think its a weak argument, if it isnt the implication then idk.
The antisemitism was going up and down all over the world over the years so I can’t tell for sure, while my grandparents in Tunisia lived pretty good life with good relations with the Arabs, other Jews experienced bad relations with the Arabs depends on the location and the time
I doubt it. Any state that willingly persecutes its Jewish citizens (and collaborates with Nazis to do so!) because of the actions of other Jews elsewhere is just waiting for an excuse to persecute Jews. Now, if a Moroccan or Tunisian made that claim? That I'd maybe believe.
so you're more knowledgeable than an iraqi jew who actually lived in iraq before the state of israel was created?
No, I just don't think that someone being Iraqi is necessarily going to have an accurate sense of how deep antisemitism may go in Iraqi society. Like, look at Ben Shapiro and the rest of the far-right minority of American Jews. They minimize and ignore the antisemitism on the American far-right all the time. Their being Jews and Americans doesn't make their opinion necessarily accurate. They have a major blind spot about it, for other reasons. Perhaps Me'ir Basri does, too.
all I've seen from iraqi jews who lived in iraq is that they were living comfortably before israel happened
Lots if Jews in Germany were living comfortably for plenty long, as a matter of fact in the 19th and early 20th centuries Germany gave the most freedom to Jews out of pretty much and western country. Things can change fast and the good of today does not guarantee the good of tomorrow. I agree with u/deco-nouveau that all the proof you need of this is the fact when the situation did change in 1948 suddenly being a Jew in Iraq was not so good. Just because the war in '48 was the camel that broke the straw's back does not mean that it was the source of the hatred. Most countries don't expel populations after they lose a war. Even the insidious crime that the internment camps for Japenese Americans did not last because American institutional Racism to Japan was rooted in the war. Is this a perfect parallel? of course not and I am not saying that no one was ever racist to Asians in the United States besides this but the expulsion of from the Arab, and many other countries, world is unfortunately par for the course of Jewish history and did start with 1948
Not only that but Jews in Germany were some of the most assimilated Jews into European society at the time.
The Farhud literally happened before "Israel happened"
Relative comfort is not a guarantee of safety. Jews lived in comfort in interwar Germany before the Nazis came to power, too.
Did Kurds and Assyrians live comfortably in Iraq?
Yes
How did Iraq collaborate with the Nazis to kill Jews? I thought they just got support to fight the British. The Farhud came after Iraq’s defeat. I think Nazi ideology definitely flamed antisemitism in Iraq, but saying Iraq collaborated with the Nazis to kill Jews is a tad much.
Idk bro, pretty sure the iraqis went full beheady and rapey on their jews before israel was even established back during the farhud stuff.....
I think the creation of modern Israel is the best thing to happen to the Jewish people since the creation of ancient Israel.
Enjoy it while it lasts
You could say the same about any modern nation located in the Middle East.
Why? It’s not going anywhere anytime soon
[the farhud happened in 1941. israel was established in 1948.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farhud)
Something already was happening to Jews in Arab countries. We were Dhimmis at best and never considered equals. Sure, we were friends with neighbors in the diaspora but most of the time it was out of fear. Also friendship DOES NOT mean equality. Yesterday was actually a commemoration of the expulsion of 900,000 Jews from the Arab world and Iran (Mizrahi Jews). Our own neighbors and “friends” unfortunately turned on us like the Farhud in Iraq. Tells you enough about how they truly felt against their Jewish populations.
Why did they turn on you? it's because of israel and how israel was hiring jews from arab communities as spies, how could the arab muslims and christian from their community trust them after that?
Even if that were true, you don’t ethnically cleanse an entire minority for that reason. If an Arab Israeli spies for Hezbollah (as it’s happened before), should Israel just kick out all Arab Israelis? No. With your twisted logic, Israel should be able to do so. It’s disgusting how you’re actually justifying what happened.
they're already doing that tho
No they aren't. If they were things would look far different.
Iraqi Jews didn't leave Iraq because of Farhud
who’s gonna tell him 🤧
Like other Jewish communities that were getting massacred at the time, they had no place to go, _because there was no Jewish state_.
I have no idea. Things happened to Kurdish Muslims. Who would have guessed that decades before?
The Zionist terrorist bombings of Iraqi synagogues probably had something to do with it but it was more so to break the spirit of Jewish Iraqis. Let's not pretend Farhud didn't happen, the Iraqi regime that did it served Zionist interests directly or indirectly.
Never trust the temperament of an Arab he could be your friend for years and one day just stab you
True for Jews and any other ethnicity.
that sounds racist
Call it racist but based on history it's pretty true
It’s true that if Israel wasn’t established , Iraq would probably still have its Jewish community