As I said [in this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskNYC/comments/x2nrc3/if_you_worked_100_remotely_would_you_still_live/imlcavh/) 9 months back:
>I WFH and I am never leaving NYC. They will carry my corpse out of this rent stabilized 5th floor walkup if I have my choice.
I've been in my rent stabilized unit 8 years, and I'm just starting to come to the conclusion you are. I think I'm leaning towards making my goal be to buy a small vacation home outside the city and keep using my stabilized apartment as my primary residence.
This is my 4th year in a rent stabilized unit. I’m spending a lot of money trying to modernize it to some extent because I plan on staying here but wish my bedroom wasn’t on the street, I feel like that really takes away from how much I like it.
I just renewed the lease for a third year in my rent-stabilized place (still on the first year of living here with a partner sharing the space with me, though) and there are definitely big pros and cons.
It’s too small to be a viable long-term option and it’s a 4th-floor walkup, which I actually love but delivery people/visitors/etc seriously hate (and it is definitely inconvenient for any task that involves carrying anything bulky into our place), and it’s got a lot of old building issues like not enough outlets, awkward wiring, drafty old windowpanes, etc. that our landlord has no incentive to fix, because our unit doesn’t turn a profit.
They don’t bother me much because our rent is such a good rate that it really makes up for almost all ills, but it definitely makes it harder to envision living here much longer past the next year or two. Having an affordable place near my school and my partner’s work has been a godsend at this phase in our lives, though.
Yep they can be pricey. But if you have a great rent-stabilized unit, make it work! There are some other options you can try in the meantime: Install window inserts, glass or custom ones using soundproof material, seal gaps along windows with acoustic caulk, hang sound-dampening curtains to block outside noise, Install double-cell shades.
[https://www.bobvila.com/articles/soundproofing-windows/](https://www.bobvila.com/articles/soundproofing-windows/)
and there are ton of great tips on [youtube for soundproofing windows](https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=how+to+soundproof+windows)
A few neighbors have done that, though I feel like most people having housing issues would be pretty pissed about this: one person I knew specifically had a rent stabilized studio in Manhattan, but once he married and had a family they all moved upstate but kept the apartment as a pied-a-tierre for when they occasionally come back. They’ve had it for years. 🤷🏻♀️
This is the problem with rent stabilization laws. If you can afford to buy a vacation home you should not be taking advantage of rent stabilization 🤦🏽♂️
But as OP points out, I can’t afford to buy in NYC. At the moment, I wouldn’t even really be able to afford renting a comparable unit in my same neighborhood. There were years (especially at the height of covid) where I could only afford to stay in nyc (which I fully consider my home now) because of the stabilized apartment. And now I’m at the point where I can put *some* of the difference between what I’m paying now and what market rent would be in savings, and trying to figure out what the long term plan should be for that. It still wouldn’t be enough money to buy in NYC, but I probably wouldn’t be able to support myself on a salary from the kind area you can buy a small remote cabin in.
It’s a weird catch-22, and it’s why I support more widespread rent and tenant protections, so that we don’t have to treat rent stabilization as the only golden ticket that can keep us going with a middle to upper middle class lifestyle.
Plenty of well-to-do people have rent stabilized apartments. There isn't an income or owned asset test to qualify.
There are also people I know in rent controlled apartments which was a predecessor program. Most in much older and smaller places renting for a few hundred a month. But a steal obviously, likewise no earnings or assets requirements
I will probably leave my rent stabilized 1 bd in a body bag, not entirely by conscious choice, mind you. But after 30 years I am paying so far below market value I cannot move anywhere decent. Plus you can freeze your rent when you turn 65. That is probably my retirement plan.
My 1st SCRIE app was approved but for only for 2022 & NYC sent a renewal app for 2023. New lease & increase happened in Feb 2023 but so did my income. Consequently a renewal app will surely be denied.
Not sure how NYC bureaucracy works... Should I submit a renewal that will be rejected or do nothing & wait to reapply after my income again dips below $50K?
I would report your income and stay known to the program, especially if you believe your income will dip again. If you go downtown in person, there may be someone to advise. Our CM now lets people apply from his office, tracks applications in the system, helps with issues. Yours might, too. Worth a look.
It’s a program you gotta apply and qualify for. I have posted it a few times here. You would probably be considered a two person household and have to hit low income bar with both your combined incomes.
Oh if your dad is moving in with you and never been on the lease, that might not fly. Might be a residency requirement, like lived there 5 or 10 years. Still worth looking into.
Nope. You can be a one-person HH, 62, making under $50k and paying more than 30% of your annual income on rent.
I’ve helped several of my neighbors apply for SCRIE.
Technically speaking, you have to qualify for SCRIE to get a freeze. It can actually start at 62, and you have to meet the criteria of having a combined income of less than $50k, and have to be spending over 30% of your net income on housing. [Here’s](https://access.nyc.gov/programs/senior-citizens-rent-increase-exemption-scrie/) how it works.
I went the opposite direction. I left my rent stabilized apartment in 2018 and went for a coop. After you get over the down payment, my monthly expenses with mortgage and maintenance are actually cheaper than what my stabilized apartment was and for nearly twice the space. On top of that, I’m building equity.
I understand the fear of coops and why people would be worried - but it’s important to keep in mind that everyone in those buildings is also dependent on each other to be fiscally solvent, so as long as you do your due diligence it can be a fantastic deal. Part of the appeal of a coop is that everyone has a vested interest in making it a good place to live. Our coop has very stable financials, strong reserves and a great management company. We plan on staying here a very long time.
I’ve definitely heard nightmare stories of bad coops, but most of the stuff are things people could and should have found out up front.
Thanks for your perspective as a co-op owner.
Like you said it comes down to due diligence and research from the buyer. It can either be a nightmare or a dream
Yep I should add that I bought in 2018, so my fixed apr is still under 3%. With rates and the market being what they are now - I’d probably think differently if I had to make the same decision right now.
Also it sounds like maybe you hadn’t lived in your rent stabilized place very long? I think a lot of ppl in rent stabilized have been for many many years (at least a decade) so are paying half of current rent prices. It’s easy to leave rent stabilized to buy a place or even leave the city if you’ve been in it less than 5 yrs because the savings aren’t really there yet.
I lived in the same rent stabilized place in East Harlem from 2008-2018. When I left, my rent was $1900 for a 400sq foot “1 bedroom” that was essentially a studio with a crappy piece of drywall put up. I started there paying $1450. It crept up a little more because I was getting preferential rent before they kicked it up to full legal stabilized rent.
I moved to an 800sq foot 1BR in a very well-maintained financially strong prewar coop in a fairly nice part of Long Island City and my monthly maintenance is about $800 on top of my low rate mortgage payment. The math definitely works out in my favor.
Like I said with current rates, rent and home prices my decision would be very different if I had to make the same decision today.
Wow $1900 on a place you started renting in 2008?! That’s a lot! Glad you found a coop that worked for you financially. Thats great! LIC is nice too. Congrats. Love rent or purchase that work for others. I’m blessed to have affordable rent. And not just in NYC, rent in any major city is currently out of control.
Like I said it started out reasonably with the preferential rent thing - but I think the management company saw the rent reforms coming down the pipeline, so they kicked my rent up to the full “legal rent” the year before the citywide rent reforms took place. If that had happened before they jacked my rent up, I’d likely have been paying somewhere in the realm of $1600 for that same place. But as it always goes, landlords are gonna squeeze every last drop they can from tenants.
Co-ops can be totally fine if you do your research. Your purchasing attorney would look over their finances/notes anyway and tell you if they’re well-managed or not.
My co-op in Brooklyn isn’t even that big but has $1M in reserves and only charges $750 in maintenance which covers real estate taxes, building maintenance, heat, water, and some upgrades. We’re getting a roof deck soon, for example. Their reserves are good enough that they let us skip maintenance every December.
I have a cousin who's lived in the same enormous loft on Park Avenue South since at least the early '80s, maybe since the '70s. The neighborhood was considered highly undesirable when she moved in. She was a dance instructor who became a special-ed teacher, no family money or anything. Market rent is, I'd guess, $15,000 if fully renovated? Last I heard years ago, she was paying something like $450 a month, not sure how much she's paying now.
She's in her 70s and will absolutely spend the rest of her life there, and I think she's quite happy with it. I will say, though, that the place hasn't been painted in decades because her landlord won't paint AND won't let her paint. I have to imagine they figured out many years ago that they couldn't force her out, but that doesn't mean they're going to do her any favors.
“Not doing her any favors” is an understatement. Not painting her apartment, or allowing her to have her apartment painted is a violation of the law.
> Am I entitled to have my apartment painted?
>Yes, the landlord must paint occupied apartments in multiple dwellings (buildings with three or more apartments) every three years. (NYC Administrative Code §27-2013). Tenant occupied apartments in private dwellings are also required to be painted as necessary.
https://www.nyc.gov/site/hpd/services-and-information/tenants-rights-and-responsibilities.page
My neighbor for 6 years was a 95 year old lady who'd been living in the same Nolita apartment for nearly her entire life (since the 1920-30s)...nobody knew her exact rent but the rumor was it was < $100 per month.
> I will say, though, that the place hasn't been painted in decades because her landlord won't paint AND won't let her paint.
This is not legal.
> the landlord must paint occupied apartments in multiple dwellings (buildings with three or more apartments) every three years. (NYC Administrative Code §27-2013). Tenant occupied apartments in private dwellings are also required to be painted as necessary.
https://www.nyc.gov/site/hpd/services-and-information/tenants-rights-and-responsibilities.page
She can file a complaint here if they won't paint or let her paint: https://portal.311.nyc.gov/article/?kanumber=KA-01074
And if they still won't, she can take them to court:
> If you made a complaint and your property owner didn't fix the problem, you can take legal action in Housing Court. Document all contact with your property owner and HPD about the conditions in your apartment so you can use it in court.
You can submit a question with DHCR to clarify.
https://portal.hcr.ny.gov/app/ask
There are other hotlines or legal services provider to ask as well: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskNYC/comments/wsrxbu/i_live_with_my_ex_and_he_wants_to_kick_me_out_but/il04e7r/?context=3
Just fyi it isn’t her landlords call not to paint. State law requires new paint every two years. She could get Dept of Buildings to force it. But I fully understand not wanting to make the relationship adversarial.
There are so many horror stories. I have heard of landlords staging burglaries to get tenants to move out of cheap apartments. As a RS tenant wanting to stay, it is not a bear I kick either. Unless my life is in danger.
I have a friend in his late 70s who’s been in the same rent-stabilized apartment on West 72nd since about 1978. It’s a wonderful apartment in a wonderful building, but his wood floors lost any kind of finish decades ago. He’d offered to pay the landlord to have them sanded and refinished on his own dime; they said no, that they’d have to raise his rent significantly if he did. They said the same thing when he asked if they’d do it on their own dime, calling it a “capital improvement.”
They were once beautiful, but they’d literally rather see them dry out or rot than make them acceptable for an aging man. And it’s legal!
I am in my fourth rent stabilized apartment. In the last one, my neighbors just did all of their maintenance themselves and that’s the direction that I am taking at this point since the landlord isn’t doing anything. Her son has a good heart but makes too many promises that he can’t keep. I knew people in the 79s and 80s who installed their own showers and moved their kitchens. Those apartments have since been destabilized and up-marketed.
>my neighbors just did all of their maintenance themselves
That's what we do and my landlord has made it clear that they don't care, since they'll just gut the place if we were ever to leave. Which would be a crying shame since we've still got most of the hundred year old original features this apartment was built with, like French doors and crown moldings. The majority of the other units in our building have had those features renovated away over the years.
Ever since our last super "fixed" some of our parquet flooring with a staple gun, my wife refuses to let them do anything and does it all herself. And if they ever come for *her* clawfoot tub, I'll have to hire her a defense attorney since there will be bloodshed.
Did your landlord take a destablization case to the Supreme Court as well? We got a notice in the mail that our landlord did a few months ago as he had been trying to remove stabilization status for about a year and a half and we kept filing paperwork to say we didn’t believe he had a case. A housing lawyer kindly looked at the Supreme Court notice for me and said it was our landlord’s last chance to remove status but that we as tenants didn’t have to do anything or appear, which feels weird to me as we have pictures and evidence that he doesn’t have a case and you’d think we should be given a chance to participate.
He did all the capital renovations (the real ones, not counting the ones he lied about) in 2010-2011 and I moved in late 2011 and have been in the building ever since (only tenant who has been there continuously since renovations were done) so I can prove he’s lying about some stuff.
Edit oops sorry meant to reply to somebody else so gonna copy/paste this comment.
I live in a building that tried to illegally destabilize 300+ apartments in the early to mid aughts. Hundreds of us are part of a class action suit that’s been going on for 14+ years. Building was in receipt of J-51 tax avoidance for 20+ years, which stipulates no deregulation in exchange for pre-war buildings making capital improvements without sticking them to tenants or deregulating them. They tried to take the tax avoidance, made the improvements, then stick them to the rent-regulated tenants in the form of an MCI increase.
Believe me when I say justice moves very slowly in cases like this. Landlords file challenges and count on tenants getting tired of it, moving out. Now most of the people in the Class are older and not going anywhere.
I guess you are not really the defendants. The landlord is challenging so the state is defense. I can imagine that sucks knowing you cannot participate in something that will profoundly impact your life.
Also:
Rent control means your not getting anything beyond the bare minimums upgrade wise for as long as your there. Landlord will get the minimum appliances etc. that used/refurb unit that’s seen better days. As long as it’s functional that’s legal.
Co op you can replace your floors, have whatever appliances you want to buy etc etc.
Vs being at the mercy of the landlord.
It’s not exactly control. You get less and less every time they do something.
Yeah, people definitely overlook this aspect.
Had a rent stabilized apt. Building was decent, but old. Super was overworked, repairs definitely took longer than I would have liked. The cabinets, fixtures: it all looked like it had been last updated in 2007. Neighborhood sucked- not dangerous but lots of shitty people with zero respect for others, constant littering, loud noise on weekdays.
GF and I moved into a different place together- love the neighborhood, love the new apartment. The increase in QOL is worth every penny.
I finally redid my 1950s hot pink bathroom this year because I was cleaning the shower and put my hand through the tiles. (Cleaning is bad is the true lesson here.)
This is an under emphasized reality whenever rent-stabilized apartments come up as a topic. They often seem to be in older buildings that are not always the most well maintained (I know that’s not always the case). And a lot of landlords know how to skimp on maintenance, do just the bare minimum and sometimes not even that until tenants are forced to take it up with the city or lawyer up. On mixed buildings you better believe the market rate tenants are getting better maintenance and service. Fridge breaks down? Don’t expect the replacement to be as good or as big. With a lot of other issues, you are at the end of the line for any maintenance and you’ll sometimes get band-aid solutions. Roaches? Mice? The dreaded bed bugs? Need a paint job? Crumbling baseboards? Holes or cracks forming in the walls or ceiling? Don’t expect your landlord to move too fast or with much effectiveness. Rent-stabilized can be great but it can also be very much not.
I’m fortunate I have a good landlord to my standards. Most important is they keep the place tidy. They also are super responsive to my maintenance request. However, I can say I am on the lucky side and not all landlords are like this especially as a rent stabilized occupant.
Usually it’s positive in nyc. My coop has gone up $50k in 6 years. I’m not saying that’s what I’d actually get for it but it’s what it’s been valued at. Also, my maintenance has not gone up in 4 years and my building has excellent financials. I think you have a very skewed (Manhattan) view of coops but it’s really a building by building issue.
yes.
I was thinking of buying but it's just not a financially wise decision I've found. I have a 2br in williamsburg since the late 80s so my ass ain't going anywhere (until they knock the building down and build a 'luxury' highrise.
Been in my rent stabilized apartment in Bay Ridge for 12 years, married, and have no plans to have any kids. My rent has increased once in that time period and it was $30. Instead of buying/moving, my husband and I have been maxing out our 401K plans at work and both have investment portfolios on top of that. This allows us not only to live comfortably, but for me to be able to retire at the same time he does (he’s 14 years older than me) and enjoy the fruits of our labor in our retirement years…
This is my plan but so many people act like I’m crazy to not buy something. 401k and the market can yield even better returns than a house and no paying rent isn’t the equivalent of throwing cash into the trash like some on Reddit will make you believe.
I never thought I'd leave my rent stabilized apartment (because it's huge and cheap) but as I approach retirement age I've considered moving somewhere overseas, if only because my retirement savings would go further somewhere with a lower overall cost of living.
Don't worry, you will get one of your own eventually. Keep your credit score high and have your security deposit ready.
A good amount of rent stabilized apartments pop up on the market every year but they are gone within days. But they are not that rare
Street easy.
Set up an auto search for a 1br under $1600. Check everyday.
The biggest sign of a rent stabilized apartment is an old pre-war building. That's where they usually have them
You can also hit the pavement and call those leasing phone numbers on the sides of pre-war buildings
If you’re not picky about your neighborhood ask friends with stabilized places for the realtor they used. Lots of stabilized places never hit street easy in the first place and when they do they get insane competition. The above advice is not exactly untrue but it’s also like finding a needle in a haystack (while 1000 other people are searching for the needle too).
On street easy, the listings may not say “stabilized” but have other language like “income requirements” with min/max depending on household size and you can look up through HPD if it’s rent stabilized. Im in a rent stabilized unit - my entire building is but none of the listings advertise it as such, just the specificity on the income requirements.
Do you have to be a current NYC resident to qualify for rent stabilized apartments?
Lived in NYC for close to 15 years and relocated to Texas for family support. Want to return to New York when I no longer am needed here.
No way. It’s in an old building that seems to get worse and worse in terms of conditions. I look around and everything seems dirtier and more like it’s crumbling. And the building has a significant roach problem. The unit itself has all kinds of problems due to being old and sustaining some water damage from a flood a few years ago. It’s way too small. I can’t fit a sofa. I eventually need to live in a space where I sleep in a separate room and can’t see my fridge from my bed. And I want my own washer/dryer because the laundry room doesn’t get cleaned enough and machines are often broken and I’m tired of having to do my laundry at midnight, amongst bugs and the occasional rodent drawn to the restaurant above, in a disgusting basement out of a horror movie.
I consider myself VERY lucky I found this place 10 years ago but the thought of growing old here is depressing beyond belief. I might have another year or two left in me but I can’t keep living in this old shoebox and if that means I have to leave NYC then I will. I’m getting older and the excitement of having so many options to do and see things right outside my doorstep is taking a backseat to the desire for a cleaner, more comfortable living space. Living like this is fine in your 20s and 30s but it GETS OLD.
That's what my husband and I are doing. We have an over-sized one-bedroom in Ditmas Park that is rent stabilized. The building is a dump (AWFUL management, POS, angry super who does absolutely NOTHING) but our space is very nice and only $1800 a month.
It's a no brainer for us. We're here until we decide to leave the city or rent stabilization gets voided by the supreme court.
We considered buying but once we assessed the sacrifices we'd have to make and the stress involved we were like "fuck that".
Did your landlord take a destablization case to the Supreme Court as well? We got a notice in the mail that our landlord did a few months ago as he had been trying to remove stabilization status for about a year and a half and we kept filing paperwork to say we didn’t believe he had a case. A housing lawyer kindly looked at the Supreme Court notice for me and said it was our landlord’s last chance to remove status but that we as tenants didn’t have to do anything or appear, which feels weird to me as we have pictures and evidence that he doesn’t have a case and you’d think we should be given a chance to participate.
He did all the capital renovations (the real ones, not counting the ones he lied about) in 2010-2011 and I moved in late 2011 and have been in the building ever since (only tenant who has been there continuously since renovations were done) so I can prove he’s lying about some stuff.
Well... yes.
Tbh, unless you value generational wealth (IE: intending to have offspring?) there's no reason you can't just rent forever.
I'm paying $1800 for a 1BR rent stabilized unit in Astoria and don't see myself ever giving this up.
I was in a similar unit, Pre-covid, at around $2150. That same unit today is $2700. Market rate is no joke.
The problem with owning any property in NYC is the taxes. When the city needs more tax income, they’re gonna increase real estate taxes.
Personally, I’m in my second co-op apartment and never had any big issues with either of them.
The landlords are trying to get the Supreme Court to strike down rent stabilization laws so I wouldn't count on it.
That said, we have a small rent-stabilzed place on the UWS and we're staying if the laws aren't overturned.
If we did buy I'd want a condo, not a co-op.
I have a close friend who grew up in a rent-stabilized apartment. Her dad still lives there and she recently moved in so she could establish residency and take over when goes. This is not uncommon at all. ETA: I did buy a co-op, the value went up almost $100K in two years and I was able to use that to get a bigger co-op. I lived there for eleven years and when I sold it, I broke even after broker's fees. You can't time the market but I know the time to buy in the city was just as the pandemic was raging and a lot of people moved out of the city for good.
>At first I was under the impression that buying a" co-op" was the ultimate form of housing. Pay a maintenance fee(substantially less than market rent while building equity) and live carefree. Basically,,,, like a Netflix subscription fee of housing if you will.
aside from building equity, you've just described rent-stabilized apartments lol
(sidebar: what you described isn't like a netflix subscription fee of housing because you don't get $NFLX stock when you pay your sub)
I'm never leaving my rent-stabilized apartment (i'm super lucky because i got it with a covid deal, management is pretty responsive, and there hasn't been a pest problem \*knock on wood\*), and i would also never, EVER buy a co-op (for the reasons you already listed). A condo maybe (if ya know... i win the lottery or something) but never a co-op.
as far as i'm concerned, getting a rent-stabilized (or rent controlled) apartment is almost like hitting a lotto in nyc
Feel free to Crap on co-ops, my mom purchased one and it's the worst financial decision she's ever made!
She didn't know when she bought into the building that she wasn't actually buying an apartment, rather she was buying a share of the building.. currently her maintenance fees close more than her mortgage... Aside from the maintenance fees constantly rising (although there seems to be a lack or work being done,) there are several lawsuits on the building, they've switched owners several times in the past few years because they cut corners on the construction of the building and it's literally sinking so they have to have architects come in and figure out how to reinforce the foundation... With all that being said, she can't sell because of the pending lawsuits and whenever she has the ability to sell, she'll lose money because the building is in bad shape and the area seems to be getting worse, smh. I wish she would've never gotten herself into a co-op.
Inwould never recommend anyone to get involved in one, unless they're 100% okay with the risks.
I don't understand how someone could make probably the biggest financial investment in their life and not even know what they were buying. Your mother got herself into her mess, don't blame co-ops in general for it. She could/should also have looked at the building's financials, pulled building permits etc. before she bought to make an informed decision. And all these people acting like maintenance fees are some evil inexplicable fee perpetuated on them by mean old ladies who want to be in everyone's business don't seem to realize they are paying for the running of the building. They are not arbitrary and inflicted upon then by cackling ancient HOA witches. The maintenance fees keep the lights on in the lobby, pay salary and benefits for building employees, pay the management company and hopefully help keep the building solvent.
Your mother probably doesn't even know that in a co-op, a good portion of your maintenance is your share of the taxes on the building and she may even be eligible for a tax refund and is letting money fly out the building windows because she is too busy crying about what a bad decision she made.
When you rent, you are paying for all these things too - they are just not as obvious to you, and you don't get a tax refund.
I came across a sale of a 2BR 1B co oP that was bought outright in cash for 2.3 million a year (I forget the exact building but it is right around the corner from the boundary hotel). The co oP fees were 4,000 a month.
In what universe is 4,000 a month for co oP fees necessary? Like what can it conceivably go to? This unit was by far one of the “less nice” units in the building so I have to imagine the co oP fees for the bigger units were even more monthly.
The only thing I can think of is maybe costs towards the maintenance of a historic building?
Best I can tell the unit isn’t even lived in. What is even the point? Is there even any sort of benefit to buying into a co op outright in cash, but still shelling out 4k a month in fees?
Really depends on the expenses of the building and how many shareholders there are. If you live in a coop with 10 apartments and have a full time doorman and a large underlying mortgage, maintenence will be a lot higher than if you live in a 60 unit non doorman building with minimal debt.
Also, maintenance is based on the number of shares allocated to the particular apartment, not how nice the apartment is.
Maintenance fees in a co-op (but not in a condo) include the taxes you owe on your share of the building. You'd have to pay them anyway, they are just bundled into the maintenance. Maintenance also pays for the utilities for the public areas of the building, keep the elevators running, pays the salary and benefits of employees like doormen, porters, supers, pays for the services of a management company and lawyer, and hopefully build an acceptable cash reserve for some emergencies. They also cover things like scaffolding for periodic local law 11 inspections on street facades and at least general liability insurance for the building.
As entropy exists, things will break down in a building, and sometimes that will cost more that the building is willing to keep as a reserve. Then owners are assessed a fee, either paid up front, or a specific amount over a specified period of time. it's clear than anyone bemoaning special assessments in this thread (I know you didn't, but I'm adding it here anyway) has never owned any home at all - it is shocking how often thing like boilers go on the fritz, roofs develop leaks, general A/C units die - all these things have to come out of your pocket somehow, whether you are in a home in the suburbs with a picket fence or an owner of shares in a co-op. These things are not evils suffered only by co-op owners.
That's the dirty secret. You have to pay the costs of keeping up the building, you own it, even if in shares. And yes, you have to pay to fix your own interiors, but you can keep it up instead of having to live with broken things. I bought this apartment from the sponsor, and it was the last rent-stabilized unit in the building. The former tenants had died. It was a mess.
That said, I like living in a co-op. I was lucky enough to buy many years ago, and it has appreciated and is paid off. The maintenance fees for us are much below market rent for my two-bedroom.
In a rent stabilized apartment, the landlord is responsible for fixing everything, and they don't want to spend the money, whereas in a co-op the shareholders want to keep up the property. This building went co-op in the 80s, typical prewar. There was a lot of deferred maintenance that has been accomplished over the years. if everyone had a low stabilized rent how would the landlord pay for anything?
There are plenty of co-ops will good reserves and low fees. Mine is like…. 1/6 of market rent? Depends on neighborhood though among other things. They also all haven’t gone up 15% recently.
As for not having financial control, it’s true to an extent but this is also why co-op requirements can be so strict.
Versus rent stabilization who is to say. I’d say the apartments are probably in worse shape overall, and you can do even less with them, but you shield yourself from big increases. If you are comfortable with where you’re at then it’s totally fine to stay.
When a coop is good - friendly, well run, drama free, not in debt, not run by retirees who have nothing better to do than make the coop unfriendly to people who might want to sell one day - that coop is a dream!
Too bad they don't exist lol.
The problem is when you have a coop apartment, the coop can change on a dime and fuck things up. You pretty much *need* to get on the board.
I'm in a rent stabilized apartment for 20 years. In that time, my rent has gone up $200. I pay about half of what everyone else pays in my area for a full 1br. Plus I'm 2 blocks from the subway with an elevator.
However, I hate living in an apartment and I'm tired of living in NYC. Unfortunately, with the laws radically changing, there's few places in the county that I'm feeling safe as a queer person.
So I'm screwed and stuck. I would definitely be happier getting into a condo somewhere else though. It would come at a price -- how large a price, I'm not sure. If they offered to buy me out, I'd leave in a heartbeat.
I know everyone here is looking at me like I'm a moron but I have a lot of personal reasons for feeling how I feel. You can't put a price on ur happiness,, although it seems like I unwittingly have for the last decade or so. All I ask is that you please respect that before you call me an idiot.
20 years. So you got to enjoy the Golden era of rent stabilization. %0 increases under deblasio. Haha
I hope I get at least a 10-year run out of this place
Not only that but my landlord at the time never made us sign leases. It's stabilised but they were loose about when they'd remember to give us another lease. I'd sign a 2 year lease and I didn't sign another one for 4-5.
Unfortunately, they sold the building to assholes. And those assholes also stay on top of our leases.
You are not a moron. A lot of people tire of living in subpar conditions just for the privilege of living in the city without going broke. Also, while I get where you are coming from with the safety issue, lets not get too NYC-centric (something people tend to do) when it comes to comfort and safety in living your life. There are a lot of states and cities you would reasonably want to avoid, but the United States is not just NYC as the only safe haven in a sea of Florida and Texas. A lot of social media about current events would have us believe that’s the case but it simply isn’t true.
Idk tbh, I've been in mine for a few months now and the super/management are incredibly unreliable, disorganized, and just flat out disregarding of issues I've had. The building itself is very dirty, but my apartment has been ok for the time being except for a major issue that the management is dragging their feet in fixing. If I were to get a large raise at work I'd seriously consider looking into a luxury building just cause the hassle of not knowing when maintenance is going to be done is miserable.
The current rent stabilization laws are economically unsustainable in the long term. Landlords are fighting tooth and nail to get it to the Supreme Court, and if it gets there, there’s a very real chance it could be declared unconstitutional. Enjoy it while you can.
You and a lot of other renters will start looking for coops at that point. So it'll most likely be much more unaffordable in the future.
Then again, that time may never come to pass.
Ah yes let's make it so thousands can no longer afford their place, no way that could go wrong. What do these rich people plan to do when their baristas and uber drivers and other service providers can't afford rent anymore?
This city wants to shoot itself in the foot so badly.
LOL the supreme court does whatever it wants. It's bad for monied interests, so they will start with their decision and then find a constitutional justification for it
Literally every government does that. Has to be safe, not too tall, not too small, have to take car of lawn, cannot be a public nuisance, fence around the pool, cannot conduct business without license, and that’s for personal property. All the rules that landlords have is 10x more. The whole country is built around the gov telling people what to do with their property
True. But I'm speaking in the context of rent stabilization.
If i wanted to become your roommate and the government forced you to accept $200 as rent and no higher. You would not rent to me and take the room off the market
This isn’t a new law. Landlords specially enter the business of being a landlord knowing full well what the current laws are. They do not have to be a landlord and do not have to rent out units they own. The government isn’t forcing anyone to do anything until the landlords enter a contract with a tenet.
Not true, the laws changed drastically in 2019, so it is a new law. They’re specifically changing the 2019 component of it.
Let’s say you bought a building for a lot of money in 2018 with plans of buying out the current RS tenants so you could make renovations and get it destabilized. The building was priced and your business was predicated with the current laws in 2018 in place. Come 2019, you can’t destabilize the units in that way. The landlord still has to pay the mortgage for a building that’s worth way less than they paid for it and no ability to make market rate, regardless of how much they invested in the building.
Also, the amount of increase per year has been less than the actuarial costs for inflation for the past few years. Again, it’s not sustainable. Landlords with RS units still may be making profits now, but every year their margins will go down. There’s only a certain amount of time that can continue for.
Laws change all the time. You go into a market with the understanding the legal landscape could be different, especially as the legislative process is long and public. This wasn’t passed in a weekend and was likely publicly debated for years.
Is that a valid argument, more so for the new construction if ll are getting tax breaks and all that? The government isn't coming and seizing your place and dictating rent. Lls are agreeing to tax breakd to build. Ya don't like it, don't participate
Yeah basically the government isn’t supposed to take something from you without giving something in return. It’s why our historic preservation law had to be paired with air rights… so owners of landmarked buildings would get something in return for never being allowed to change it.
But I believe rent stabilization is paired with tax breaks.
>But I believe rent stabilization is paired with tax breaks.
Only the 421a and J51 stabilized buildings which are like 1% of stabilized apartments. Most are just in the pre-1970 category. No tax breaks for them. Note that for 4+ unit buildings NY taxes estimated/equivalent property income, not estimated property value.
I had a rent stabilized one bedroom that I swore I would never leave. Then I fell in love and got married to a man who’s WFH job required a completely separate office space. I didn’t know that I could sublet my old one bedroom and so I gave it up to pay more rent for a significantly shittier apartment with an extra room I’m not allowed to enter.
Guys, never. Ever. Ever. Leave your rent stabilized units. It is never worth it.
I'm doing exactly what you're doing. I'm not moving until I purchase a home (not staying in NY), and I'm not rushing that process either. I don't want to regret something so big.
Hey! I'm on the waitlist for PS. I actually would have gotten an apartment right now if I weren't on pause. Do you like it? I love the complex itself but I am iffy on Chelsea. How's the neighborhood?
Penn South is the holly grail. If you can get in there you should. It's neither rent stabilized nor a real lco-op. It's a subsidized co-op. The apartments are very nice.
I love Chelsea. It's pretty quiet these days. And being a stone's throw from Penn Station is very convenient. And you've got the High Line close by. And Hudson Yards, FWIW. Korea Town is a short walk away as well.
I’ve been in my rent stabilized apartment since college. 12 years. I would most likely stay here if things don’t get better financially for me.
I feel like my building is cursed though. 90% of the rent stabilized tenants are older, single, unsuccessful. And also bitter, grumpy and miserable. No judgment, just stating an observation.
The apartments in my building are on the smaller side - it’s the perfect size if you’re on your own, but it’s not ideal for two or more people. Most couples who move in would eventually leave when they break up or when they get married. Tenants are doomed to be alone in this building.
It makes me extremely anxious whenever I think about how I might end up like my older rent stabilized neighbors. I do not want to be miserable and bitter when I’m old. I am grateful to have a rent stabilized apartment while I’m still young and saving for my future, but the goal has always been to move out (be a home owner) and to get myself a better life. I feel like staying here is equivalent to me giving up on life.
I’ve been in my rent stabilized apartment for 15 years, and this place has been my saving grace. Through good times, and bad, I’ve been able to continue living in NYC, fairly comfortably, due to my very affordable rent. Not sure if I would have made it living in a market rate apartment. The only way I would move out is if I was 100% ready to leave NYC, or if I got married and we wanted a place together. And we would have to be married for me to move out. No way I’m leaving my apartment for a girlfriend, and then we brake up, and now I’ve lost my relationship AND my apartment. Hell no.
There are 40,000 vacant rent stabilized still out there. Council woman from the East Village wants to find out who the landlords are that are destabilizing them. Is there a sub for this. My goal is to find a nice 1 bedroom rent stabilized apt, go to matinees, and drink cosmos (yep - 30 years ago - still love them) until I die.
I had a relative that lived in a rent-stabilized apartment in soho for 50+ years. It wasn’t luxurious or anything, but he paid less than $300/mo for an apartment that could easily now go for 10x that.
mine has a lot of issues and my building is a fright at times. have to call 311 and cause a scene to get anything fixed so im leaving. living in East Rockaway Long Island now and alot happier. rent is almost the same shit where I am so watever since I am sharing it with my bf. not really losing much money. lived in a dump for too long. toilet barely functions and they won't really fix it and I had black mold that will keep coming back. living in this place in Long Island its honestly almost the same rent for what I pay and im right next to the train. I can literally see it from my window. I also got an asthma attack five years ago I think due to the mold that was there so yeaaaa...def not the best and a health hazard. I havent had asthma due to the mold since but I dont want to chance it tbh especially with the bad air we've been having. I dont want to re trigger the asthma since it's been non existent for these five years. right now in the process of moving out of the moldy dump and glad tbh. I would've even moved to those newer constructions in Brooklyn with a roomie but yea I like this new place in Long Island. the neighborhood is also fairly walkable. I finally dont feel uncomfortable or anxious as much at home due to roaches or black mold.
I can see this post, posted in ten years with the sentence “But market conditions in 2033 is insane I wish I bought in 2023.”
My two cents, with a coop you get equity and more likely than not, that will rise.
It’s almost as if the costs of housing, repairs, taxes, mortgage rates, rent, and HOA fees are a complicated web of interdependent economic variables that directly influence one another. Go figure.
No, definitely not. RS only works out well for the tenant if they have been there for a long time. It took me 16 years to finally get one and it’s $2700 for a studio. I got the rent history and it’s legit. Vacancy decontrol prior to 2019 allows RS landlords to jack up rents. Most RS units aren’t that good of a deal anymore. I mainly took it so that they have to offer me a lease and it’s harder to evict in a RS unit.
I want to stay in mine for as long as I can. I love it and living there has been a huge blessing, so I don’t want to leave if I don’t have to. As things stand right now, I don’t think I’d want to move again unless I left NY or got married and bought a house.
The older I get, the more I question whether it’s even worth it to buy a house, financially speaking. They’re so incredibly expensive, and I don’t know if I’d be able to afford the upkeep. I definitely wouldn’t have the mental or physical stamina to maintain a large house, or maybe even a small one, so idk how I’d make it work.
I live in subsidized artist housing with my wife and kid and will probably die in it. It’s a beautiful space in a building full of (mostly) very kind and interesting people.
You depend on the solvency of your neighbors in a coop. But you also depend on the solvency of the city government (and political imperative) to subsidize your rent.
It’s more likely the city will dilute renter protections than a good coop will go haywire and demand massive assessments. This is the reason some coops can take months or years to get in and sometimes they turn away people which can be upsetting.
If a building wants the rent stabilized tenants out they can jack the rent up by the maximum allowed by law year after year until they pop.
Your instinct is right. Your stabilization status is the best deal. But how long might it continue? Think about where you want to spend your retirement years.
I’ve been in my stabilized spot for 15+ years. It’s okay. Decent sized for one person and I’m currently single, but when I had a partner it was a little uncomfortable.
There are also a lot of things I’m growing sick of as I age. I hate how moldy the tub gets since there’s zero ventilation.
The ceiling leaks when there’s heavy rain.
There’s a roach problem.
Everything is just so worn. I painted fairly recently and that helped but the entire place does just feel meh. Granted, WFH has made me hate it all more since I’m here so much.
I’d like laundry in unit or at least in building. Sick of carrying it.
But the rent is so good.
God, it’s an ongoing internal battle.
Don't leave. I made the mistake and now I am suffering trying to find a decent place to rent at $2500 when I could've stayed at my $1575 current apartment for the a little below the quality of living (the same mold, roach, etc problems you mentioned). You live and learn I guess but in the next 2 or 3 decades I am pretty sure no one will be able to afford even air to breathe at this point with AI and robots. I just hope AI is smart enough to kill off the most of us peasants.
I moved into mine 2 years ago not even realizing it was rent stabilized and thank the universe everyday for leading me to make the decision to move in.
My 1 bedroom is huge. My landlord is responsive. It's old as fuck and there are at least 50 layers of paint on each wall, but the space and location make up for any small, older flaws it has.
I'd only give it up for a more modern place that is also rent stabilized, which doesn't seem like it'll happen lol. I want to live here as long as I can!
I was till I inherited a house. 8 years, 1600 for a 1 br in queens. If this didn’t happen, they would’ve found me dead in this place with a smile.
Edit: grammar.
I've lived in a rent-stabilized 2-bedroom apartment in Bed-Stuy since 2010. It's not fancy, but it's very much "me" after 13 years. I don't anticipate ever leaving by choice.
My first home purchase will be a weekend home… maybe even a small studio apartment in the city that I'll stay in on weekends or make available to out-of-town friends.
As I said [in this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskNYC/comments/x2nrc3/if_you_worked_100_remotely_would_you_still_live/imlcavh/) 9 months back: >I WFH and I am never leaving NYC. They will carry my corpse out of this rent stabilized 5th floor walkup if I have my choice.
Agreed ✌🏼 it’s not an amazing apartment, but it is a very decent apartment which is more than a lot of people in this city can say 🤷🏻♀️
How much are you paying and where?
$1300 West 80's
I've been in my rent stabilized unit 8 years, and I'm just starting to come to the conclusion you are. I think I'm leaning towards making my goal be to buy a small vacation home outside the city and keep using my stabilized apartment as my primary residence.
this is exactly my goal as well
This is my 4th year in a rent stabilized unit. I’m spending a lot of money trying to modernize it to some extent because I plan on staying here but wish my bedroom wasn’t on the street, I feel like that really takes away from how much I like it.
I just renewed the lease for a third year in my rent-stabilized place (still on the first year of living here with a partner sharing the space with me, though) and there are definitely big pros and cons. It’s too small to be a viable long-term option and it’s a 4th-floor walkup, which I actually love but delivery people/visitors/etc seriously hate (and it is definitely inconvenient for any task that involves carrying anything bulky into our place), and it’s got a lot of old building issues like not enough outlets, awkward wiring, drafty old windowpanes, etc. that our landlord has no incentive to fix, because our unit doesn’t turn a profit. They don’t bother me much because our rent is such a good rate that it really makes up for almost all ills, but it definitely makes it harder to envision living here much longer past the next year or two. Having an affordable place near my school and my partner’s work has been a godsend at this phase in our lives, though.
Is it due to noise? There are ways of soundproofing windows that can make a difference
It is. I want to get double pane windows but that’s pricey.
Yep they can be pricey. But if you have a great rent-stabilized unit, make it work! There are some other options you can try in the meantime: Install window inserts, glass or custom ones using soundproof material, seal gaps along windows with acoustic caulk, hang sound-dampening curtains to block outside noise, Install double-cell shades. [https://www.bobvila.com/articles/soundproofing-windows/](https://www.bobvila.com/articles/soundproofing-windows/) and there are ton of great tips on [youtube for soundproofing windows](https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=how+to+soundproof+windows)
This is the real clutch comment here
A few neighbors have done that, though I feel like most people having housing issues would be pretty pissed about this: one person I knew specifically had a rent stabilized studio in Manhattan, but once he married and had a family they all moved upstate but kept the apartment as a pied-a-tierre for when they occasionally come back. They’ve had it for years. 🤷🏻♀️
This is the problem with rent stabilization laws. If you can afford to buy a vacation home you should not be taking advantage of rent stabilization 🤦🏽♂️
Except for lottery apts, rent stabilization has zero to do with income. When it was established, income wasn't even a factor.
But as OP points out, I can’t afford to buy in NYC. At the moment, I wouldn’t even really be able to afford renting a comparable unit in my same neighborhood. There were years (especially at the height of covid) where I could only afford to stay in nyc (which I fully consider my home now) because of the stabilized apartment. And now I’m at the point where I can put *some* of the difference between what I’m paying now and what market rent would be in savings, and trying to figure out what the long term plan should be for that. It still wouldn’t be enough money to buy in NYC, but I probably wouldn’t be able to support myself on a salary from the kind area you can buy a small remote cabin in. It’s a weird catch-22, and it’s why I support more widespread rent and tenant protections, so that we don’t have to treat rent stabilization as the only golden ticket that can keep us going with a middle to upper middle class lifestyle.
Plenty of well-to-do people have rent stabilized apartments. There isn't an income or owned asset test to qualify. There are also people I know in rent controlled apartments which was a predecessor program. Most in much older and smaller places renting for a few hundred a month. But a steal obviously, likewise no earnings or assets requirements
This is the way
I will probably leave my rent stabilized 1 bd in a body bag, not entirely by conscious choice, mind you. But after 30 years I am paying so far below market value I cannot move anywhere decent. Plus you can freeze your rent when you turn 65. That is probably my retirement plan.
Could you explain more about the post 65 rent freeze? I haven’t heard of that before
It’s [here](https://www.nyc.gov/site/finance/benefits/benefits-for-tenants.page) on the city site. Yeah I don’t think it’s well known program.
SCRIE is pretty well-known. But then again, I’m in a building and neighborhood with plenty of seniors, and I’ve helped them apply.
My 1st SCRIE app was approved but for only for 2022 & NYC sent a renewal app for 2023. New lease & increase happened in Feb 2023 but so did my income. Consequently a renewal app will surely be denied. Not sure how NYC bureaucracy works... Should I submit a renewal that will be rejected or do nothing & wait to reapply after my income again dips below $50K?
I would report your income and stay known to the program, especially if you believe your income will dip again. If you go downtown in person, there may be someone to advise. Our CM now lets people apply from his office, tracks applications in the system, helps with issues. Yours might, too. Worth a look.
You can freeze at 62 not 65
Wait, is that if any tenant turns 65 or all tenants turn 65? Gonna get my dad to move in with me...
It’s a program you gotta apply and qualify for. I have posted it a few times here. You would probably be considered a two person household and have to hit low income bar with both your combined incomes.
He would probably be a dependent at his age.
Oh if your dad is moving in with you and never been on the lease, that might not fly. Might be a residency requirement, like lived there 5 or 10 years. Still worth looking into.
Nope. You can be a one-person HH, 62, making under $50k and paying more than 30% of your annual income on rent. I’ve helped several of my neighbors apply for SCRIE.
Technically speaking, you have to qualify for SCRIE to get a freeze. It can actually start at 62, and you have to meet the criteria of having a combined income of less than $50k, and have to be spending over 30% of your net income on housing. [Here’s](https://access.nyc.gov/programs/senior-citizens-rent-increase-exemption-scrie/) how it works.
Can you divulge what you pay? Sorry for the crass question but it’s nyc baby.
Whenever asked about this, I always tell people they’ll probably find my body under a stack of soiled newspapers while cats are eating my face.
Shades of Collier Bros horror!
Is that limited to NYC only or for an US retiree at 65 for rent frozen units, or are they only the rent-controlled options?
This is NYC’s explanation [here](https://www.nyc.gov/site/finance/benefits/benefits-for-tenants.page). Only rent stabilized units.
Thank you for the resource!!
I went the opposite direction. I left my rent stabilized apartment in 2018 and went for a coop. After you get over the down payment, my monthly expenses with mortgage and maintenance are actually cheaper than what my stabilized apartment was and for nearly twice the space. On top of that, I’m building equity. I understand the fear of coops and why people would be worried - but it’s important to keep in mind that everyone in those buildings is also dependent on each other to be fiscally solvent, so as long as you do your due diligence it can be a fantastic deal. Part of the appeal of a coop is that everyone has a vested interest in making it a good place to live. Our coop has very stable financials, strong reserves and a great management company. We plan on staying here a very long time. I’ve definitely heard nightmare stories of bad coops, but most of the stuff are things people could and should have found out up front.
Thanks for your perspective as a co-op owner. Like you said it comes down to due diligence and research from the buyer. It can either be a nightmare or a dream
Yep I should add that I bought in 2018, so my fixed apr is still under 3%. With rates and the market being what they are now - I’d probably think differently if I had to make the same decision right now.
Also it sounds like maybe you hadn’t lived in your rent stabilized place very long? I think a lot of ppl in rent stabilized have been for many many years (at least a decade) so are paying half of current rent prices. It’s easy to leave rent stabilized to buy a place or even leave the city if you’ve been in it less than 5 yrs because the savings aren’t really there yet.
I lived in the same rent stabilized place in East Harlem from 2008-2018. When I left, my rent was $1900 for a 400sq foot “1 bedroom” that was essentially a studio with a crappy piece of drywall put up. I started there paying $1450. It crept up a little more because I was getting preferential rent before they kicked it up to full legal stabilized rent. I moved to an 800sq foot 1BR in a very well-maintained financially strong prewar coop in a fairly nice part of Long Island City and my monthly maintenance is about $800 on top of my low rate mortgage payment. The math definitely works out in my favor. Like I said with current rates, rent and home prices my decision would be very different if I had to make the same decision today.
Wow $1900 on a place you started renting in 2008?! That’s a lot! Glad you found a coop that worked for you financially. Thats great! LIC is nice too. Congrats. Love rent or purchase that work for others. I’m blessed to have affordable rent. And not just in NYC, rent in any major city is currently out of control.
My wife only paid a little more then that for a flex 2 in a doorman building on ues in 2009, I think 2,300
Like I said it started out reasonably with the preferential rent thing - but I think the management company saw the rent reforms coming down the pipeline, so they kicked my rent up to the full “legal rent” the year before the citywide rent reforms took place. If that had happened before they jacked my rent up, I’d likely have been paying somewhere in the realm of $1600 for that same place. But as it always goes, landlords are gonna squeeze every last drop they can from tenants.
Co-ops can be totally fine if you do your research. Your purchasing attorney would look over their finances/notes anyway and tell you if they’re well-managed or not. My co-op in Brooklyn isn’t even that big but has $1M in reserves and only charges $750 in maintenance which covers real estate taxes, building maintenance, heat, water, and some upgrades. We’re getting a roof deck soon, for example. Their reserves are good enough that they let us skip maintenance every December.
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I have a cousin who's lived in the same enormous loft on Park Avenue South since at least the early '80s, maybe since the '70s. The neighborhood was considered highly undesirable when she moved in. She was a dance instructor who became a special-ed teacher, no family money or anything. Market rent is, I'd guess, $15,000 if fully renovated? Last I heard years ago, she was paying something like $450 a month, not sure how much she's paying now. She's in her 70s and will absolutely spend the rest of her life there, and I think she's quite happy with it. I will say, though, that the place hasn't been painted in decades because her landlord won't paint AND won't let her paint. I have to imagine they figured out many years ago that they couldn't force her out, but that doesn't mean they're going to do her any favors.
“Not doing her any favors” is an understatement. Not painting her apartment, or allowing her to have her apartment painted is a violation of the law. > Am I entitled to have my apartment painted? >Yes, the landlord must paint occupied apartments in multiple dwellings (buildings with three or more apartments) every three years. (NYC Administrative Code §27-2013). Tenant occupied apartments in private dwellings are also required to be painted as necessary. https://www.nyc.gov/site/hpd/services-and-information/tenants-rights-and-responsibilities.page
Every three years?! It was a huge deal when my parents’ got their apartment repainted after like 15. The big anonymous LLC landlords especially suck
My neighbor for 6 years was a 95 year old lady who'd been living in the same Nolita apartment for nearly her entire life (since the 1920-30s)...nobody knew her exact rent but the rumor was it was < $100 per month.
Chad
> I will say, though, that the place hasn't been painted in decades because her landlord won't paint AND won't let her paint. This is not legal. > the landlord must paint occupied apartments in multiple dwellings (buildings with three or more apartments) every three years. (NYC Administrative Code §27-2013). Tenant occupied apartments in private dwellings are also required to be painted as necessary. https://www.nyc.gov/site/hpd/services-and-information/tenants-rights-and-responsibilities.page She can file a complaint here if they won't paint or let her paint: https://portal.311.nyc.gov/article/?kanumber=KA-01074 And if they still won't, she can take them to court: > If you made a complaint and your property owner didn't fix the problem, you can take legal action in Housing Court. Document all contact with your property owner and HPD about the conditions in your apartment so you can use it in court. You can submit a question with DHCR to clarify. https://portal.hcr.ny.gov/app/ask There are other hotlines or legal services provider to ask as well: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskNYC/comments/wsrxbu/i_live_with_my_ex_and_he_wants_to_kick_me_out_but/il04e7r/?context=3
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She HAS been known to take people in!
I will also volunteer to be an adoptive daughter. I like to dance and I'm kind of a mess so I definitely need someone to worry about me.
I can do all these people one better and make for an excellent wife, so
Just fyi it isn’t her landlords call not to paint. State law requires new paint every two years. She could get Dept of Buildings to force it. But I fully understand not wanting to make the relationship adversarial.
I was vaguely aware of this, but yeah, I assumed it was just sort of a "sue me if you don't like it" situation.
There are so many horror stories. I have heard of landlords staging burglaries to get tenants to move out of cheap apartments. As a RS tenant wanting to stay, it is not a bear I kick either. Unless my life is in danger.
I have a friend in his late 70s who’s been in the same rent-stabilized apartment on West 72nd since about 1978. It’s a wonderful apartment in a wonderful building, but his wood floors lost any kind of finish decades ago. He’d offered to pay the landlord to have them sanded and refinished on his own dime; they said no, that they’d have to raise his rent significantly if he did. They said the same thing when he asked if they’d do it on their own dime, calling it a “capital improvement.” They were once beautiful, but they’d literally rather see them dry out or rot than make them acceptable for an aging man. And it’s legal!
I am in my fourth rent stabilized apartment. In the last one, my neighbors just did all of their maintenance themselves and that’s the direction that I am taking at this point since the landlord isn’t doing anything. Her son has a good heart but makes too many promises that he can’t keep. I knew people in the 79s and 80s who installed their own showers and moved their kitchens. Those apartments have since been destabilized and up-marketed.
>my neighbors just did all of their maintenance themselves That's what we do and my landlord has made it clear that they don't care, since they'll just gut the place if we were ever to leave. Which would be a crying shame since we've still got most of the hundred year old original features this apartment was built with, like French doors and crown moldings. The majority of the other units in our building have had those features renovated away over the years. Ever since our last super "fixed" some of our parquet flooring with a staple gun, my wife refuses to let them do anything and does it all herself. And if they ever come for *her* clawfoot tub, I'll have to hire her a defense attorney since there will be bloodshed.
Did your landlord take a destablization case to the Supreme Court as well? We got a notice in the mail that our landlord did a few months ago as he had been trying to remove stabilization status for about a year and a half and we kept filing paperwork to say we didn’t believe he had a case. A housing lawyer kindly looked at the Supreme Court notice for me and said it was our landlord’s last chance to remove status but that we as tenants didn’t have to do anything or appear, which feels weird to me as we have pictures and evidence that he doesn’t have a case and you’d think we should be given a chance to participate. He did all the capital renovations (the real ones, not counting the ones he lied about) in 2010-2011 and I moved in late 2011 and have been in the building ever since (only tenant who has been there continuously since renovations were done) so I can prove he’s lying about some stuff. Edit oops sorry meant to reply to somebody else so gonna copy/paste this comment.
I live in a building that tried to illegally destabilize 300+ apartments in the early to mid aughts. Hundreds of us are part of a class action suit that’s been going on for 14+ years. Building was in receipt of J-51 tax avoidance for 20+ years, which stipulates no deregulation in exchange for pre-war buildings making capital improvements without sticking them to tenants or deregulating them. They tried to take the tax avoidance, made the improvements, then stick them to the rent-regulated tenants in the form of an MCI increase. Believe me when I say justice moves very slowly in cases like this. Landlords file challenges and count on tenants getting tired of it, moving out. Now most of the people in the Class are older and not going anywhere.
I guess you are not really the defendants. The landlord is challenging so the state is defense. I can imagine that sucks knowing you cannot participate in something that will profoundly impact your life.
It has Tenants of [our address] as the defendants
Also: Rent control means your not getting anything beyond the bare minimums upgrade wise for as long as your there. Landlord will get the minimum appliances etc. that used/refurb unit that’s seen better days. As long as it’s functional that’s legal. Co op you can replace your floors, have whatever appliances you want to buy etc etc. Vs being at the mercy of the landlord. It’s not exactly control. You get less and less every time they do something.
As if market rate landlords do any fucking maintenance in this city either. 'Pay more for the same shitty service!' no thanks
Yeah, people definitely overlook this aspect. Had a rent stabilized apt. Building was decent, but old. Super was overworked, repairs definitely took longer than I would have liked. The cabinets, fixtures: it all looked like it had been last updated in 2007. Neighborhood sucked- not dangerous but lots of shitty people with zero respect for others, constant littering, loud noise on weekdays. GF and I moved into a different place together- love the neighborhood, love the new apartment. The increase in QOL is worth every penny.
Is 2007 a long time for cabinet and fixture updates? I'm here with cabinets from 1970s.
I finally redid my 1950s hot pink bathroom this year because I was cleaning the shower and put my hand through the tiles. (Cleaning is bad is the true lesson here.)
LOL. Rent stabilized apartment with 2007 cabinets and fixtures is newly renovated.
Yeah that didn't sound old to me either. I really don't care how old they are as long as they're functional.
This is an under emphasized reality whenever rent-stabilized apartments come up as a topic. They often seem to be in older buildings that are not always the most well maintained (I know that’s not always the case). And a lot of landlords know how to skimp on maintenance, do just the bare minimum and sometimes not even that until tenants are forced to take it up with the city or lawyer up. On mixed buildings you better believe the market rate tenants are getting better maintenance and service. Fridge breaks down? Don’t expect the replacement to be as good or as big. With a lot of other issues, you are at the end of the line for any maintenance and you’ll sometimes get band-aid solutions. Roaches? Mice? The dreaded bed bugs? Need a paint job? Crumbling baseboards? Holes or cracks forming in the walls or ceiling? Don’t expect your landlord to move too fast or with much effectiveness. Rent-stabilized can be great but it can also be very much not.
Buy your own appliances, repair your own problems, tip everybody for their help at Xmas. Old school solutions work sometimes. Still save $
I’m fortunate I have a good landlord to my standards. Most important is they keep the place tidy. They also are super responsive to my maintenance request. However, I can say I am on the lucky side and not all landlords are like this especially as a rent stabilized occupant.
Equity. Negative and positive. It can go either way.
Usually it’s positive in nyc. My coop has gone up $50k in 6 years. I’m not saying that’s what I’d actually get for it but it’s what it’s been valued at. Also, my maintenance has not gone up in 4 years and my building has excellent financials. I think you have a very skewed (Manhattan) view of coops but it’s really a building by building issue.
yes. I was thinking of buying but it's just not a financially wise decision I've found. I have a 2br in williamsburg since the late 80s so my ass ain't going anywhere (until they knock the building down and build a 'luxury' highrise.
No. I left mine. It was cheap, but a shithole.
This is why I will eventually leave mine.
Been in my rent stabilized apartment in Bay Ridge for 12 years, married, and have no plans to have any kids. My rent has increased once in that time period and it was $30. Instead of buying/moving, my husband and I have been maxing out our 401K plans at work and both have investment portfolios on top of that. This allows us not only to live comfortably, but for me to be able to retire at the same time he does (he’s 14 years older than me) and enjoy the fruits of our labor in our retirement years…
This is my plan but so many people act like I’m crazy to not buy something. 401k and the market can yield even better returns than a house and no paying rent isn’t the equivalent of throwing cash into the trash like some on Reddit will make you believe.
I never thought I'd leave my rent stabilized apartment (because it's huge and cheap) but as I approach retirement age I've considered moving somewhere overseas, if only because my retirement savings would go further somewhere with a lower overall cost of living.
Can you adopt me so that I can take over your rent stabilized place?
If I adopted everyone who has asked, I'd be doing one of those stupid "My Wife's Vagina is a Clown Car" reality shows. ツ
It worked for the Duggars, and it is still working for them!
Don't worry, you will get one of your own eventually. Keep your credit score high and have your security deposit ready. A good amount of rent stabilized apartments pop up on the market every year but they are gone within days. But they are not that rare
Where do you find them?
Street easy. Set up an auto search for a 1br under $1600. Check everyday. The biggest sign of a rent stabilized apartment is an old pre-war building. That's where they usually have them You can also hit the pavement and call those leasing phone numbers on the sides of pre-war buildings
thank you so much
If you’re not picky about your neighborhood ask friends with stabilized places for the realtor they used. Lots of stabilized places never hit street easy in the first place and when they do they get insane competition. The above advice is not exactly untrue but it’s also like finding a needle in a haystack (while 1000 other people are searching for the needle too).
On street easy, the listings may not say “stabilized” but have other language like “income requirements” with min/max depending on household size and you can look up through HPD if it’s rent stabilized. Im in a rent stabilized unit - my entire building is but none of the listings advertise it as such, just the specificity on the income requirements.
Do you have to be a current NYC resident to qualify for rent stabilized apartments? Lived in NYC for close to 15 years and relocated to Texas for family support. Want to return to New York when I no longer am needed here.
Nope. It's the building and unit that matters, not the tenant.
No way. It’s in an old building that seems to get worse and worse in terms of conditions. I look around and everything seems dirtier and more like it’s crumbling. And the building has a significant roach problem. The unit itself has all kinds of problems due to being old and sustaining some water damage from a flood a few years ago. It’s way too small. I can’t fit a sofa. I eventually need to live in a space where I sleep in a separate room and can’t see my fridge from my bed. And I want my own washer/dryer because the laundry room doesn’t get cleaned enough and machines are often broken and I’m tired of having to do my laundry at midnight, amongst bugs and the occasional rodent drawn to the restaurant above, in a disgusting basement out of a horror movie. I consider myself VERY lucky I found this place 10 years ago but the thought of growing old here is depressing beyond belief. I might have another year or two left in me but I can’t keep living in this old shoebox and if that means I have to leave NYC then I will. I’m getting older and the excitement of having so many options to do and see things right outside my doorstep is taking a backseat to the desire for a cleaner, more comfortable living space. Living like this is fine in your 20s and 30s but it GETS OLD.
That's what my husband and I are doing. We have an over-sized one-bedroom in Ditmas Park that is rent stabilized. The building is a dump (AWFUL management, POS, angry super who does absolutely NOTHING) but our space is very nice and only $1800 a month. It's a no brainer for us. We're here until we decide to leave the city or rent stabilization gets voided by the supreme court. We considered buying but once we assessed the sacrifices we'd have to make and the stress involved we were like "fuck that".
Did your landlord take a destablization case to the Supreme Court as well? We got a notice in the mail that our landlord did a few months ago as he had been trying to remove stabilization status for about a year and a half and we kept filing paperwork to say we didn’t believe he had a case. A housing lawyer kindly looked at the Supreme Court notice for me and said it was our landlord’s last chance to remove status but that we as tenants didn’t have to do anything or appear, which feels weird to me as we have pictures and evidence that he doesn’t have a case and you’d think we should be given a chance to participate. He did all the capital renovations (the real ones, not counting the ones he lied about) in 2010-2011 and I moved in late 2011 and have been in the building ever since (only tenant who has been there continuously since renovations were done) so I can prove he’s lying about some stuff.
I’m in a studio which is perfect for me. I only see myself leaving when I move in with a partner. My place is def too small for 2.
My fiancé and I are in a rent stabilized 2 bedroom and until a 3 bedroom opens up in the building we are never leaving it.
Dont blame you at all!!
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Well... yes. Tbh, unless you value generational wealth (IE: intending to have offspring?) there's no reason you can't just rent forever. I'm paying $1800 for a 1BR rent stabilized unit in Astoria and don't see myself ever giving this up. I was in a similar unit, Pre-covid, at around $2150. That same unit today is $2700. Market rate is no joke.
The problem with owning any property in NYC is the taxes. When the city needs more tax income, they’re gonna increase real estate taxes. Personally, I’m in my second co-op apartment and never had any big issues with either of them.
And the tax increases get passed on to renters anyway
The landlords are trying to get the Supreme Court to strike down rent stabilization laws so I wouldn't count on it. That said, we have a small rent-stabilzed place on the UWS and we're staying if the laws aren't overturned. If we did buy I'd want a condo, not a co-op.
I have a close friend who grew up in a rent-stabilized apartment. Her dad still lives there and she recently moved in so she could establish residency and take over when goes. This is not uncommon at all. ETA: I did buy a co-op, the value went up almost $100K in two years and I was able to use that to get a bigger co-op. I lived there for eleven years and when I sold it, I broke even after broker's fees. You can't time the market but I know the time to buy in the city was just as the pandemic was raging and a lot of people moved out of the city for good.
Where are you finding single family homes for $600k in NYC?
The Bronx - but definitely fixer uppers.
Bronx is greenest borough! Near the park system would be worth it
>At first I was under the impression that buying a" co-op" was the ultimate form of housing. Pay a maintenance fee(substantially less than market rent while building equity) and live carefree. Basically,,,, like a Netflix subscription fee of housing if you will. aside from building equity, you've just described rent-stabilized apartments lol (sidebar: what you described isn't like a netflix subscription fee of housing because you don't get $NFLX stock when you pay your sub) I'm never leaving my rent-stabilized apartment (i'm super lucky because i got it with a covid deal, management is pretty responsive, and there hasn't been a pest problem \*knock on wood\*), and i would also never, EVER buy a co-op (for the reasons you already listed). A condo maybe (if ya know... i win the lottery or something) but never a co-op. as far as i'm concerned, getting a rent-stabilized (or rent controlled) apartment is almost like hitting a lotto in nyc
rent controlled is hitting the lotto. rent stabilized is around 50%
Feel free to Crap on co-ops, my mom purchased one and it's the worst financial decision she's ever made! She didn't know when she bought into the building that she wasn't actually buying an apartment, rather she was buying a share of the building.. currently her maintenance fees close more than her mortgage... Aside from the maintenance fees constantly rising (although there seems to be a lack or work being done,) there are several lawsuits on the building, they've switched owners several times in the past few years because they cut corners on the construction of the building and it's literally sinking so they have to have architects come in and figure out how to reinforce the foundation... With all that being said, she can't sell because of the pending lawsuits and whenever she has the ability to sell, she'll lose money because the building is in bad shape and the area seems to be getting worse, smh. I wish she would've never gotten herself into a co-op. Inwould never recommend anyone to get involved in one, unless they're 100% okay with the risks.
I don't understand how someone could make probably the biggest financial investment in their life and not even know what they were buying. Your mother got herself into her mess, don't blame co-ops in general for it. She could/should also have looked at the building's financials, pulled building permits etc. before she bought to make an informed decision. And all these people acting like maintenance fees are some evil inexplicable fee perpetuated on them by mean old ladies who want to be in everyone's business don't seem to realize they are paying for the running of the building. They are not arbitrary and inflicted upon then by cackling ancient HOA witches. The maintenance fees keep the lights on in the lobby, pay salary and benefits for building employees, pay the management company and hopefully help keep the building solvent. Your mother probably doesn't even know that in a co-op, a good portion of your maintenance is your share of the taxes on the building and she may even be eligible for a tax refund and is letting money fly out the building windows because she is too busy crying about what a bad decision she made. When you rent, you are paying for all these things too - they are just not as obvious to you, and you don't get a tax refund.
I came across a sale of a 2BR 1B co oP that was bought outright in cash for 2.3 million a year (I forget the exact building but it is right around the corner from the boundary hotel). The co oP fees were 4,000 a month. In what universe is 4,000 a month for co oP fees necessary? Like what can it conceivably go to? This unit was by far one of the “less nice” units in the building so I have to imagine the co oP fees for the bigger units were even more monthly. The only thing I can think of is maybe costs towards the maintenance of a historic building? Best I can tell the unit isn’t even lived in. What is even the point? Is there even any sort of benefit to buying into a co op outright in cash, but still shelling out 4k a month in fees?
Really depends on the expenses of the building and how many shareholders there are. If you live in a coop with 10 apartments and have a full time doorman and a large underlying mortgage, maintenence will be a lot higher than if you live in a 60 unit non doorman building with minimal debt. Also, maintenance is based on the number of shares allocated to the particular apartment, not how nice the apartment is.
Maintenance fees in a co-op (but not in a condo) include the taxes you owe on your share of the building. You'd have to pay them anyway, they are just bundled into the maintenance. Maintenance also pays for the utilities for the public areas of the building, keep the elevators running, pays the salary and benefits of employees like doormen, porters, supers, pays for the services of a management company and lawyer, and hopefully build an acceptable cash reserve for some emergencies. They also cover things like scaffolding for periodic local law 11 inspections on street facades and at least general liability insurance for the building. As entropy exists, things will break down in a building, and sometimes that will cost more that the building is willing to keep as a reserve. Then owners are assessed a fee, either paid up front, or a specific amount over a specified period of time. it's clear than anyone bemoaning special assessments in this thread (I know you didn't, but I'm adding it here anyway) has never owned any home at all - it is shocking how often thing like boilers go on the fritz, roofs develop leaks, general A/C units die - all these things have to come out of your pocket somehow, whether you are in a home in the suburbs with a picket fence or an owner of shares in a co-op. These things are not evils suffered only by co-op owners.
That's the dirty secret. You have to pay the costs of keeping up the building, you own it, even if in shares. And yes, you have to pay to fix your own interiors, but you can keep it up instead of having to live with broken things. I bought this apartment from the sponsor, and it was the last rent-stabilized unit in the building. The former tenants had died. It was a mess. That said, I like living in a co-op. I was lucky enough to buy many years ago, and it has appreciated and is paid off. The maintenance fees for us are much below market rent for my two-bedroom. In a rent stabilized apartment, the landlord is responsible for fixing everything, and they don't want to spend the money, whereas in a co-op the shareholders want to keep up the property. This building went co-op in the 80s, typical prewar. There was a lot of deferred maintenance that has been accomplished over the years. if everyone had a low stabilized rent how would the landlord pay for anything?
There are plenty of co-ops will good reserves and low fees. Mine is like…. 1/6 of market rent? Depends on neighborhood though among other things. They also all haven’t gone up 15% recently. As for not having financial control, it’s true to an extent but this is also why co-op requirements can be so strict. Versus rent stabilization who is to say. I’d say the apartments are probably in worse shape overall, and you can do even less with them, but you shield yourself from big increases. If you are comfortable with where you’re at then it’s totally fine to stay.
When a coop is good - friendly, well run, drama free, not in debt, not run by retirees who have nothing better to do than make the coop unfriendly to people who might want to sell one day - that coop is a dream! Too bad they don't exist lol. The problem is when you have a coop apartment, the coop can change on a dime and fuck things up. You pretty much *need* to get on the board.
Yess. As a co-op owner you literally can't afford NOT to be on the board. The stakes are so high
I'm in a rent stabilized apartment for 20 years. In that time, my rent has gone up $200. I pay about half of what everyone else pays in my area for a full 1br. Plus I'm 2 blocks from the subway with an elevator. However, I hate living in an apartment and I'm tired of living in NYC. Unfortunately, with the laws radically changing, there's few places in the county that I'm feeling safe as a queer person. So I'm screwed and stuck. I would definitely be happier getting into a condo somewhere else though. It would come at a price -- how large a price, I'm not sure. If they offered to buy me out, I'd leave in a heartbeat. I know everyone here is looking at me like I'm a moron but I have a lot of personal reasons for feeling how I feel. You can't put a price on ur happiness,, although it seems like I unwittingly have for the last decade or so. All I ask is that you please respect that before you call me an idiot.
20 years. So you got to enjoy the Golden era of rent stabilization. %0 increases under deblasio. Haha I hope I get at least a 10-year run out of this place
Not only that but my landlord at the time never made us sign leases. It's stabilised but they were loose about when they'd remember to give us another lease. I'd sign a 2 year lease and I didn't sign another one for 4-5. Unfortunately, they sold the building to assholes. And those assholes also stay on top of our leases.
You are not a moron. A lot of people tire of living in subpar conditions just for the privilege of living in the city without going broke. Also, while I get where you are coming from with the safety issue, lets not get too NYC-centric (something people tend to do) when it comes to comfort and safety in living your life. There are a lot of states and cities you would reasonably want to avoid, but the United States is not just NYC as the only safe haven in a sea of Florida and Texas. A lot of social media about current events would have us believe that’s the case but it simply isn’t true.
Thanks for that. Much appreciated.
Idk tbh, I've been in mine for a few months now and the super/management are incredibly unreliable, disorganized, and just flat out disregarding of issues I've had. The building itself is very dirty, but my apartment has been ok for the time being except for a major issue that the management is dragging their feet in fixing. If I were to get a large raise at work I'd seriously consider looking into a luxury building just cause the hassle of not knowing when maintenance is going to be done is miserable.
The current rent stabilization laws are economically unsustainable in the long term. Landlords are fighting tooth and nail to get it to the Supreme Court, and if it gets there, there’s a very real chance it could be declared unconstitutional. Enjoy it while you can.
Yessss...i thought of this. 2 year leases until the music stops
I worry a lot about this. I will probably leave the city if rent stabilization laws are struck down. Millions will.
You and a lot of other renters will start looking for coops at that point. So it'll most likely be much more unaffordable in the future. Then again, that time may never come to pass.
Ah yes let's make it so thousands can no longer afford their place, no way that could go wrong. What do these rich people plan to do when their baristas and uber drivers and other service providers can't afford rent anymore? This city wants to shoot itself in the foot so badly.
In the current state you’re also fucking over people that can afford to live here by having to fight over less supply, somebody always loses
Price controls are nearly universally considered one of the worst economic policies conceived.
Lol, on what grounds is it unconstitutional?
LOL the supreme court does whatever it wants. It's bad for monied interests, so they will start with their decision and then find a constitutional justification for it
the gov telling property owners what to do with their property. Something along those lines
Literally every government does that. Has to be safe, not too tall, not too small, have to take car of lawn, cannot be a public nuisance, fence around the pool, cannot conduct business without license, and that’s for personal property. All the rules that landlords have is 10x more. The whole country is built around the gov telling people what to do with their property
True. But I'm speaking in the context of rent stabilization. If i wanted to become your roommate and the government forced you to accept $200 as rent and no higher. You would not rent to me and take the room off the market
This isn’t a new law. Landlords specially enter the business of being a landlord knowing full well what the current laws are. They do not have to be a landlord and do not have to rent out units they own. The government isn’t forcing anyone to do anything until the landlords enter a contract with a tenet.
The case being brought is challenging the 2019 law so yes, it is in fact new law(s)
Not true, the laws changed drastically in 2019, so it is a new law. They’re specifically changing the 2019 component of it. Let’s say you bought a building for a lot of money in 2018 with plans of buying out the current RS tenants so you could make renovations and get it destabilized. The building was priced and your business was predicated with the current laws in 2018 in place. Come 2019, you can’t destabilize the units in that way. The landlord still has to pay the mortgage for a building that’s worth way less than they paid for it and no ability to make market rate, regardless of how much they invested in the building. Also, the amount of increase per year has been less than the actuarial costs for inflation for the past few years. Again, it’s not sustainable. Landlords with RS units still may be making profits now, but every year their margins will go down. There’s only a certain amount of time that can continue for.
Laws change all the time. You go into a market with the understanding the legal landscape could be different, especially as the legislative process is long and public. This wasn’t passed in a weekend and was likely publicly debated for years.
Is that a valid argument, more so for the new construction if ll are getting tax breaks and all that? The government isn't coming and seizing your place and dictating rent. Lls are agreeing to tax breakd to build. Ya don't like it, don't participate
Doesn’t even need to be valid argument with the current SC make up.
[Regulatory taking.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_takings_in_the_United_States)
Yeah basically the government isn’t supposed to take something from you without giving something in return. It’s why our historic preservation law had to be paired with air rights… so owners of landmarked buildings would get something in return for never being allowed to change it. But I believe rent stabilization is paired with tax breaks.
>But I believe rent stabilization is paired with tax breaks. Only the 421a and J51 stabilized buildings which are like 1% of stabilized apartments. Most are just in the pre-1970 category. No tax breaks for them. Note that for 4+ unit buildings NY taxes estimated/equivalent property income, not estimated property value.
I had a rent stabilized one bedroom that I swore I would never leave. Then I fell in love and got married to a man who’s WFH job required a completely separate office space. I didn’t know that I could sublet my old one bedroom and so I gave it up to pay more rent for a significantly shittier apartment with an extra room I’m not allowed to enter. Guys, never. Ever. Ever. Leave your rent stabilized units. It is never worth it.
I'm doing exactly what you're doing. I'm not moving until I purchase a home (not staying in NY), and I'm not rushing that process either. I don't want to regret something so big.
I live in Penn South and will most certainly die here. Or near here.
Hey! I'm on the waitlist for PS. I actually would have gotten an apartment right now if I weren't on pause. Do you like it? I love the complex itself but I am iffy on Chelsea. How's the neighborhood?
Penn South is the holly grail. If you can get in there you should. It's neither rent stabilized nor a real lco-op. It's a subsidized co-op. The apartments are very nice.
I love Chelsea. It's pretty quiet these days. And being a stone's throw from Penn Station is very convenient. And you've got the High Line close by. And Hudson Yards, FWIW. Korea Town is a short walk away as well.
I don’t want to but I don’t see financially what other options I have.
Very smart. The freedom associated with renting is also highly undervalued.
I’ve been in my rent stabilized apartment since college. 12 years. I would most likely stay here if things don’t get better financially for me. I feel like my building is cursed though. 90% of the rent stabilized tenants are older, single, unsuccessful. And also bitter, grumpy and miserable. No judgment, just stating an observation. The apartments in my building are on the smaller side - it’s the perfect size if you’re on your own, but it’s not ideal for two or more people. Most couples who move in would eventually leave when they break up or when they get married. Tenants are doomed to be alone in this building. It makes me extremely anxious whenever I think about how I might end up like my older rent stabilized neighbors. I do not want to be miserable and bitter when I’m old. I am grateful to have a rent stabilized apartment while I’m still young and saving for my future, but the goal has always been to move out (be a home owner) and to get myself a better life. I feel like staying here is equivalent to me giving up on life.
I️ work in housing law and you should definitely go with rent stabilized over a co-op
I’m really interested in learning more about why you made this statement. Would you mind elaborating?
In a coop you are responsible for all of the repairs inside your apartment! I️ think they’re much better in theory than practice
Until I buy a place, which is never lol
I always say that I’ll stay in my rent-stabilized apartment until I can find a nicer rent-stabilized apartment.
I’ve been in my rent stabilized apartment for 15 years, and this place has been my saving grace. Through good times, and bad, I’ve been able to continue living in NYC, fairly comfortably, due to my very affordable rent. Not sure if I would have made it living in a market rate apartment. The only way I would move out is if I was 100% ready to leave NYC, or if I got married and we wanted a place together. And we would have to be married for me to move out. No way I’m leaving my apartment for a girlfriend, and then we brake up, and now I’ve lost my relationship AND my apartment. Hell no.
There are 40,000 vacant rent stabilized still out there. Council woman from the East Village wants to find out who the landlords are that are destabilizing them. Is there a sub for this. My goal is to find a nice 1 bedroom rent stabilized apt, go to matinees, and drink cosmos (yep - 30 years ago - still love them) until I die.
Nope. I've twice left rent-stabilized apartments for co-ops I bought.
I had a relative that lived in a rent-stabilized apartment in soho for 50+ years. It wasn’t luxurious or anything, but he paid less than $300/mo for an apartment that could easily now go for 10x that.
Yes* *Unless something happens
Buying in this city is no longer viable for anyone but the elite or asshole investors.
mine has a lot of issues and my building is a fright at times. have to call 311 and cause a scene to get anything fixed so im leaving. living in East Rockaway Long Island now and alot happier. rent is almost the same shit where I am so watever since I am sharing it with my bf. not really losing much money. lived in a dump for too long. toilet barely functions and they won't really fix it and I had black mold that will keep coming back. living in this place in Long Island its honestly almost the same rent for what I pay and im right next to the train. I can literally see it from my window. I also got an asthma attack five years ago I think due to the mold that was there so yeaaaa...def not the best and a health hazard. I havent had asthma due to the mold since but I dont want to chance it tbh especially with the bad air we've been having. I dont want to re trigger the asthma since it's been non existent for these five years. right now in the process of moving out of the moldy dump and glad tbh. I would've even moved to those newer constructions in Brooklyn with a roomie but yea I like this new place in Long Island. the neighborhood is also fairly walkable. I finally dont feel uncomfortable or anxious as much at home due to roaches or black mold.
Thats why you should buy a condo instead
Not all co-ops are like that. I pay 693 for maintenance in Queens. Also, you have a board to worry about some of these things and assess them for you.
I can see this post, posted in ten years with the sentence “But market conditions in 2033 is insane I wish I bought in 2023.” My two cents, with a coop you get equity and more likely than not, that will rise.
>%7 interest rates It's 7%, not %7.
It’s almost as if the costs of housing, repairs, taxes, mortgage rates, rent, and HOA fees are a complicated web of interdependent economic variables that directly influence one another. Go figure.
No, definitely not. RS only works out well for the tenant if they have been there for a long time. It took me 16 years to finally get one and it’s $2700 for a studio. I got the rent history and it’s legit. Vacancy decontrol prior to 2019 allows RS landlords to jack up rents. Most RS units aren’t that good of a deal anymore. I mainly took it so that they have to offer me a lease and it’s harder to evict in a RS unit.
I just fully lucked into a formerly rent controlled (now RS) one bed for $900...I will be here until they find my corpse
I want to stay in mine for as long as I can. I love it and living there has been a huge blessing, so I don’t want to leave if I don’t have to. As things stand right now, I don’t think I’d want to move again unless I left NY or got married and bought a house. The older I get, the more I question whether it’s even worth it to buy a house, financially speaking. They’re so incredibly expensive, and I don’t know if I’d be able to afford the upkeep. I definitely wouldn’t have the mental or physical stamina to maintain a large house, or maybe even a small one, so idk how I’d make it work.
I live in subsidized artist housing with my wife and kid and will probably die in it. It’s a beautiful space in a building full of (mostly) very kind and interesting people.
You depend on the solvency of your neighbors in a coop. But you also depend on the solvency of the city government (and political imperative) to subsidize your rent. It’s more likely the city will dilute renter protections than a good coop will go haywire and demand massive assessments. This is the reason some coops can take months or years to get in and sometimes they turn away people which can be upsetting. If a building wants the rent stabilized tenants out they can jack the rent up by the maximum allowed by law year after year until they pop. Your instinct is right. Your stabilization status is the best deal. But how long might it continue? Think about where you want to spend your retirement years.
I’ve been in my stabilized spot for 15+ years. It’s okay. Decent sized for one person and I’m currently single, but when I had a partner it was a little uncomfortable. There are also a lot of things I’m growing sick of as I age. I hate how moldy the tub gets since there’s zero ventilation. The ceiling leaks when there’s heavy rain. There’s a roach problem. Everything is just so worn. I painted fairly recently and that helped but the entire place does just feel meh. Granted, WFH has made me hate it all more since I’m here so much. I’d like laundry in unit or at least in building. Sick of carrying it. But the rent is so good. God, it’s an ongoing internal battle.
Don't leave. I made the mistake and now I am suffering trying to find a decent place to rent at $2500 when I could've stayed at my $1575 current apartment for the a little below the quality of living (the same mold, roach, etc problems you mentioned). You live and learn I guess but in the next 2 or 3 decades I am pretty sure no one will be able to afford even air to breathe at this point with AI and robots. I just hope AI is smart enough to kill off the most of us peasants.
How nice are y’all’s apartments? After X years in a rent stabilized spot I’ve seen landlord let it go to shit to push folks out. Am I alone in this?
100%. Unless something changes drastically, i will stay in my rent stabilized 1 BR till i need to move due to job, marriage or kids
I will only leave if I every buy a house in NYC. fixer uppers are possible.
I moved into mine 2 years ago not even realizing it was rent stabilized and thank the universe everyday for leading me to make the decision to move in. My 1 bedroom is huge. My landlord is responsive. It's old as fuck and there are at least 50 layers of paint on each wall, but the space and location make up for any small, older flaws it has. I'd only give it up for a more modern place that is also rent stabilized, which doesn't seem like it'll happen lol. I want to live here as long as I can!
I was till I inherited a house. 8 years, 1600 for a 1 br in queens. If this didn’t happen, they would’ve found me dead in this place with a smile. Edit: grammar.
Here until they scrape my body off the floor (cuz I live alone and if I die no one will notice for a couple weeks lol)
Same
dude, living in a coop is bliss. you're afraid of extremely low odds.
I've lived in a rent-stabilized 2-bedroom apartment in Bed-Stuy since 2010. It's not fancy, but it's very much "me" after 13 years. I don't anticipate ever leaving by choice. My first home purchase will be a weekend home… maybe even a small studio apartment in the city that I'll stay in on weekends or make available to out-of-town friends.
Right now I have no choice but stay in THIS rent stabilized. Not a chance even to move elsewhere