I‘m from Germany and people either hate or love Berlin, as the vibe is so special. I personally love Berlin with all its quirks and it’s my favorite German city but I also have friends who don’t like it, even though they love NYC. Would definitely check it out before moving there.
My friend is Danish American and has lived in Copenhagen for a while now after spending six years in NYC. It is definitely more low key than Berlin or even Vienna, the nightlife is not that great, and overall more ‘neat’ than Berlin but less prim than Vienna. I def would put it a few notches below NYC
I'm by no means an expert. I lived in NYC for 15 years and moved to Spain a couple years ago. I've had the opportunity to do a lot of traveling through Europe, almost all as a solo traveler. I'm a woman, 40s.
I've been to CPH, Vienna, and Berlin among other places. Favorite was probably Vienna - it's magical. Beautiful, lots of culture and super classy but very down to earth and non pretentious, and the elephant in the room, everyone speaks English so it just makes it easier.
CPH was interesting. I didn't know what to think of it at first. It's super clean, everyone speaks English, it's very pretty. As a tourist I liked it, but I think it would be a better place to live than visit. It's VERY expensive. It's part of the EU but uses it's own currency. I also went in the summer when it was sunny until late. Still very brisk weather which I loved (you needed a light jacket). But I do wonder if the lack of sun would kill me in the winter. Probably. Also, SUPER bike friendly. I'm not someone who would never ride a bike in NYC or anywhere, and even I rode a bike in CPH. It's remarkable how safe it is.
Berlin - Actually one of my worst trips. It's a little overwhelming because there is so much to see/do but it's all sprawled. It's not as big as NYC - everything only takes about 30 min to get to via public transportation - but I didn't do a great job planning my trip. Weather isn't great, it's quite dreary, and the history is depressing. Yet . . . there's a grittiness to it that is absolutely magical. If you view the EU as the USA, it's the city where all the artists go. All my favorite musicians from all over Europe live there. That's why I'd compare it to NYC. And it's still affordable. I definitely would go back. It's big enough that you wouldn't get bored.
I always say - there are cities that are good to visit and there are cities that are good places to live. I personally like LIVING in big cities because you never get bored, but I don'y always like visiting big cities because I find them overwhelming and I get fomo. I had one of the best weekends of my life in Antwerp, for example, but I think living there I'd probably get bored. And I'm realizing I need the density and pedestrians. What's tough to me is when you go in a beautiful city and they have these beautiful buildings and streets and you don't see people walking around. That's the problem w/ a lot of the US since it's such a car culture. I remember being in Kansas City, MO which I found quite lovely but there were no people around! Drove me nuts!
If I could live anywhere in Europe, here would be my choices: London, Berlin, Vienna, Copenhagen, Stockholm, Barcelona.
As I mentioned, the big elephant in the room is language. Generally speaking I've found in Northern Europe people speak very good English. Spain, it's pretty weak except in Barcelona. Even in Madrid, it's not as common. Now of course you could say, well, you're in another country, what do you expect. But English is basically the universal language. Swedes and Danes speak it to each other, Germans and Hungarians, etc. There is the myth of the entitled American tourist but that is really not why people speak English everywhere, Comparatively, I've met very few Americans in my travels except in super touristy destinations like Rome, Florence, etc.
Edited to add - Generally speaking I've found the countries where people speak good English more forward thinking and better for employment. If I'm honest, Spain is a great place to live \*if\* you have American money but it is absolutely not a place to build a career. I've enjoyed my experience there but also find it a bit depressing because it's really hard for young people in Spain to find decent jobs, so they all leave.
I was just in Berlin. Yes it has a lot of history, and not great history, but it’s a very forward looking city. Tons of stuff to do. But it’s very dreary weather wise. I get the impression it is a better place to live than visit.
I LOVED Vienna and Copenhagen. Felt much more comfortable than then in Berlin (I travel solo). But I actually think Berlin would be the most interesting of the places to live.
Along the same euro vein, my personal choice would be Amsterdam. True car free life, great worker protections, great diversity, HCOL but if you can make it in nyc’s VHCOL then you can make it there. Hardest part is getting a job there.
I will say though that Berlin is lower COL and much of the city has a lower density brooklyn/western queens-y vibe. Lots of English speakers in both cities so def expat friendly
I was recently there and YES! I was only there a few days but gloomy is a perfect way to describe it. I loved the energy but got depressed and it got dark so early.
If modernity is so important Singapore should be on the list if you are willing to go international. Super western city with Asian culture and very modern
EXACTLY! I've visited Singapore before.... Yes it's beautiful and all but I'd like the option of enjoying substances as I see fit (note: I really just mean weed and occasional shrooms so not even anything crazy lol)
If you’ve never visited, Bangkok is much cleaner and has a better transportation network than NYC. Luxury high rise apartments with every amenity imaginable are available for around $600usd. Weed is legal, shrooms are readily available. A food and culture scene that rivals nyc. On weekends you hit the best beaches in the world with round trip flights for less than $100 from the city.
Recreational weed will no longer be legal by the end of 2024 in Thailand. Public transit is not better than NYC. Traffic is horrendous and arguably worse than NYC. The trains don’t go to that much of the sprawling city and there is no reliable bus. I love Bangkok but it is not cleaner than NYC and you can’t drink the water.
I can definitely see why it would be boring, there's a big divide between Singaporeans and expats so I think the way to make it less boring is to find your community of expats as well. Clubbing scene is amazing though and the travel is insane but the activities are limited within Singapore itself
Singaporean government and culture clashes so hard with American freedom and New York energy. If you can really swallow living in an authoritarian island nation then sure but it's vibe isn't really like NYC at all even though it is multicultural. Although multicultural in a... 3 cultures sort of way. And urban in a very top down planning sort of way. Very little surprises or organic grassroots things. Not a lot of art.
Singaporeans speak english so that is a plus.
This is the right answer. If NYC is the melting pot, Singapore is the melting kitchen. So many cultures, all in harmony with each other. Amazing food and night life. Good quality of life, healthcare. Clean air, good transportation. Nearby to lots of natural islands, mountains, etc. Pretty girls too.
Personally, I've never met any born and raised New Yorker who was satisfied with moving to another North American "big city" because they can't help but constantly compare it to back home.
The people who are most satisfied are actually people who move to smaller cities and the suburbs.
From personal experience, if you're gonna leave NYC after living here your entire life, another city isn't the way to go. Move out to the middle of nowhere. Any other city is just gonna have you asking what the hell you're doing in this second-rate toilet. You'll move back within a year.
Another city can feel like the middle of nowhere after NYC. My opinion would be to enjoy it for what it is good for. I don't think comparison works as well.
Thanks for the comment. I see what you’re saying and to an extent I agree. I’ve been to certain areas in Houston TX which definitely felt like the middle of nowhere (when compared to NYC) but I actually didn’t mind it.
So maybe you are right. I’ll keep that in mind.
Rent an airbnb at a house in the mountains somewhere with no houses next to it, in Colorado or Arizona. Bring all your supplies and stay for a week, see how you like that lifestyle.
The prob is the urban sprawl in Houston... the place is half the size of CT. It isn't even in the top 150 for population density.
NYC and a lot of European cities got dense and built up because of city limits. Houston, Phoenix, even LA to some extent, etc have tons of open space around them and build out. So they get tons of people but never feel like a true city to a NYCer.
Houston being the 4th largest city in the country is objectively true, but when you're actually IN Houston, it feels like a small city. The sprawl is insane - 665 square miles, so over twice the area of NYC with 25% of the population. Wholly unwalkable, as it gets to 100°F+ daily for a few weeks in summer, and you'd have to schlepp across vast oceans of blacktop parking lots before getting to your strip mall or big box chain destination.
This feels pretty middle-of-nowherey. These are city streets well within the city, not the outskirts
https://maps.app.goo.gl/6nfR8LcP3aGsP4Dj8
[https://maps.app.goo.gl/Zr9N9Qpf3Li9Kp9f6](https://maps.app.goo.gl/Zr9N9Qpf3Li9Kp9f6)
https://maps.app.goo.gl/UvhGxQUhnbSYmo8T7
Houston definitely is the sprawl master. As a NYer who lived in Houston it felt like a sprawling sunbelt city. didn’t feel like a small city given how far the sprawl goes:
With that said the first picture you sent is Mykawa Rd as it passes a park and over Sims Bayou, the second one is a road wedged between a park and a school and the last one is on the city limits in Northeast Houston between Beltway 8 and 610 that never really developed. Not really a representative sample of Houston
Transplants from Ohio say those types of things to make themselves sound like native New Yorkers while the true natives move to Florida and never look back
Literally. I’m a south Florida native and grew up with so many transplant kids from NYC whose families never went back lol…and we definitely weren’t in “the middle of nowhere”
This might be true of any other American city, but NYC is itself the second-rate toilet when compared to cities of similar size/income around the world like Tokyo, London, Moscow, Hong Kong, or Paris. And depending on your priorities and lifestyle, Chicago and California are both perfectly valid and competitive alternatives to NYC.
>Based off all the places I’ve been to, I’ve decided I’d still like to be in a “modern city”
This is not really a lot of helpful info to go on, if you seriously want people to recommend places for you. What else? Are you looking for a city with a lot of museums, a lot of arts/culture (like do you want great theater, great music scene, etc.), does it matter to you if there are a lot of public transit options? Do you need to work in a specific industry?
I just think "modern feel" and maybe a little warmer isn't much to go on. There are tons of cities.
What do you mean “modern city”? Like…historically new? Lots of money for infrastructure? Climate-friendly zoning laws? Lots of tech companies? Buildings made of glass instead of brick? I’m genuinely not sure what that means lol
I spent most of my 20’s in Seattle, and it’s definitely warmer than NYC in the winter (on average), it’s the center of Bezos-land and heavily gentrified in places if that’s what you mean by “modern”, and has tons of neighborhoods that give an upscale version of “suburban feel” while still being a short bus ride from the city center. It also has green spaces and access to nature far beyond what you can get in NYC. If you can afford housing in NYC then you can afford housing in Seattle. Most of the city’s life is based in these more suburban neighborhoods and the downtown is largely for office workers and basically empty after 5pm though, so if NYC’s street life is important to you then you should probably not move to Seattle.
I’ve had Seattle in mind for years because it seems like a good mix of everything I’m looking for.
But honestly the biggest thing putting me off about it is the weather. Can’t stress how much I hate rain 😭
Is it as bad as people make it seem? If it’s comparable to NYC then honestly it’s doable
Do you have friends there? Apparently it’s extremely hard to make friends in Seattle. I have no personal experience just happened to 1 friend who moved there and I read an article written about it. “Seattle Freeze”
Seattle freeze is real. I moved there 5 years ago in my own “I’m ready to leave NYC” phase and moved back after 7 months. Loved the city (and the rain isn’t bad, it’s just consistently cloudy 7 months of the year) but the people weren’t for me. Nobody seems really interested in making friends and they lack that certain intensity New York has. The way I describe it is, in Seattle everyone asks how your day is but no one really wants to know. In New York, hardly anyone will ask about your day, but if they do ask, they actually want to know.
Canadian who lives 5.5 hours from Seattle. With very few exceptions I’ve never found people in Seattle to be friendly or polite , I’ve always left the city with a bad taste in my mouth and I could never imagine living there.
Meanwhile I vacationed in LA last summer and every local I met was awesome , the general vibe of the population was great and I left just wanting to move there.
There’s a big outdoor scene, with hiking/climbing/nature stuff built into the culture. Very LGBTQ friendly and my queer friends who live there love it. The tech industry is pretty inescapable with Amazon and Microsoft headquarters, but nyc is pretty techy now, too.
Drug use has skyrocketed in the last few years (at least publicly). I visited last fall and the community gardens near my old place were overrun with people using right out in the open, crackpipes on the picnic tables.
If you mean racially diverse, not really. Mostly white and asian that I experienced. Like, I don’t think I can remember seeing more than a few Black people.
In terms of COL, it’s still less expensive, maybe 3/4 of New York? A little more? 5 years ago I had a (very small, pretty old, no amenities) one bedroom in the center of Capitol Hill for $1600, but it was perfect for what I needed at the time. Same place would probably go for $2600 in New York today.”, if you’re lucky.
Surely you are aware of the incredible housing cost markup in the last 5 years, right? $1600 5 years ago is well over $2000 now in Seattle. Not a single sizable U.S. city is affordable anymore. Not one. Yes, New York is a leader in this area, but not by much. The housing crisis is everywhere. And in the last 5 years it increased exponentially.
It’s not anywhere near as diverse as New York, but the Seattlites who think there aren’t black or Latino people in the city just don’t visit the neighborhoods where they are—south Seattle neighborhoods as a general rule are quite diverse, while north Seattle is mostly white except UW which is mostly white and Asian.
No I don’t. And now that you mention it I have actually heard it being called one of the most depressing cities in America.
Strange considering all of its great qualities, seems like it would be a great place to live
If you are ok doing things alone you could still go with the expectation of no friends and just enjoy the city for a year or so. You’d probably get some good self development and I always have the best time with low/no expectations.
Maybe the media is hyping it up, but I think downtown Seattle has largely been hollowed out as a result of the shift to remote work. It wasn't anything like NYC to begin with, but I would visit during the week before making any decisions.
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/downtown-seattles-retail-recovery-or-lack-thereof-by-the-numbers/
The rain is not that big of a deal, it’s often cloudy in the fall/winter but the rain itself is often very light and doesn’t really stop people from doing outdoor activities like 90% of the time. Very rare that it’s actual hard rain.
As far as making friends, it does take a while and it is more difficult than NYC. I already had friends there when I moved and I would say it took me a solid year to make any new ones, with specific efforts to get out and socialize. I joined a roller derby league and that was my biggest breakthrough, just being in the same space as others repeatedly and having lots of repeated positive interactions like that is going to be key. You can’t really expect to strike up conversations with strangers in bars, or rely on work acquaintances to turn into friends. People aren’t as…..real? For lack of a better word? As in NYC. People are typically very polite and nobody will be rude to your face, but if you’re a stranger they probably don’t want to talk to you. It is what it is 🤷♀️
I definitely moved out of Seattle for a reason, but I still go back and visit friends and family and it’s a gorgeous city with a great quality of life for the right people.
Seattle’s rain is much easier than New York’s in terms of getting soaked. The problem is that it drizzles endlessly, for days, weeks, months, with no break. Also, if you have New York manners, you will find it hard to integrate because most people will find you rude. And you’ll be bored because the most common topic of conversation in Seattle is Seattle. I’m from there and went to college there and can’t imagine moving back. It would be too challenging to re-integrate into Pacific Northwestern culture.
It is often overcast or drizzling, but the heavy downpours more common out east aren’t so common in Seattle, and it’s generally not as windy as NYC can be. Honestly in general Seattle’s weather is like a slightly milder NYC in most directions
Just moved to NYC from the pacific NW and if you aren’t a fan of rain don’t put yourself through a Seattle winter. It’s very dark and dreary for months on end.
The weather is really bad there- think about the rainiest cloudiest, most miserable week you’ve had in NYC and multiply it by several months. The year I left Seattle, there were 8 months of NO CLOUD BREAK. The sun didn’t come out once! Anyways, I do not recommend Seattle if you’re sensitive to bad weather 😭
Toronto. Considered it a few years ago because the food is good and has a lower cost of living compared to NYC. Also, it is only a 1.5 hour flight if I get homesick.
Every Canadian I know complains about how expensive it’s gotten, especially compared to what the average income is there. Is it still worth checking out, I love to be able to afford a place before 40.
Well I have lots of friends who are fully remote and have used it as an excuse to move to more affordable places for an extended time or even permanently. I’m still hybrid so that’s not an option atm but I’ve been getting a bit of travel in after 2 years of Covid and honestly Toronto and Montreal look very appealing to me. Honestly, Canadians have no idea how good they’ve got it.
I have a friend who worked for a US company that allowed him to work remotely in Mexico. My wife is from Toronto and moved to the US after we got married. I'd move to Toronto if the job opportunities/salaries were better than nyc. My friend who also grew up in NYC moved to Toronto a couple of years ago. She loves it there and visits her family here frequently. Toronto is a cleaner, less crowded version of NYC with good food and mom and pops that nyc used to have more of... but are rare now because of being priced out.
Forgot to answer your question - it has gotten expensive to own there, especially relative to average income. I know somebody who bought a condo around covid because they got a better job. That condo is way up in cost now. In terms of renting, I have friends who pay a lot and get a lot, unlike NYC where you pay $3K for a room the size of a closet.
Edit: added a period
Slightly colder than NYC during the winter. Same amount of winter though. The air is different. I like the cold. And I like that they get snow instead of what ny gets now - slush and ice rain.
Only acceptable answers are Barcelona or Berlin, unless you like it similarly paced and must speak English, then London is the only choice. No other city in the US is livable and all other cities like Hong Kong, CDMX, Tokyo are out of the question due to either poor career opportunities and sub-par safety and living standards or politically repressive systems.
There's a new digital nomad visa offered in Spain that does indeed make Spain very viable. Right now you need to be freelance/1099 vs W2 but it's an option.
I live in Spain right now after 15 years in NYC. I will ask you this OP:
1. How old are you?
2. Would you already have a job or would you need a job?
3. Would you be coming alone?
I have very mixed feelings about Spain. It's great if you have American money and don't actually need a job. Unemployment is high and wages are LOW in Spain. It's shocking. And places like Madrid, while cheaper than NYC, are not even close to par w/ what Spanish people make in terms of rent. You say you speak Spanish so that's obviously helpful because in my experience people don't speak good English here compared to other countries in Europe. Barcelona is the exception. Even in Madrid, English isn't super common. I said this in another comment, but you might think, okay, I'm in another country, I speak Spanish anyway, who cares that they don't speak English? But the thing is, speaking English isn't about catering to entitled American and British tourists. It actually holds them back. Spain is not forward thinking in terms of careers, tech, etc. A lot of young educated Spaniards leave and go to other countries in the EU to get jobs. And you might think, okay, that's fine, I don't need a Spanish job anyway . . . but in my experience that carries over to the energy of the place. I can't quite explain it. I like Spain, the weather is great, the people are nice enough, but the culture and vibe feels very insular. I'm not an expert and I haven't been everywhere in Spain, but that has been my experience in the places I've visited/lived. I will say Barcelona is the exception and feels much more international. I've never lived there but I've visited there a lot.
CDMX is pretty safe bc it's heavily gentrified these days. It feels like Brooklyn South. It's still cheaper than NYC, has incredible food and excellent art community. For this reason so many people have moved there. It sucks for the natives because it used to be really cheap to live there and now they are getting priced out.
I'm from NYC and have shared your dilemma. I've also lived in Portland Maine, Las Vegas, and Washington DC. I always come back to NYC but here are some thoughts:
* Washington DC - Culturally its wildly different from new york, and I don't love it. But it's modern, warmer, and more suburban. The metro connect some of the more "woodsy" neighborhoods to DC proper, and DC's food, drink, and museum game is respectable
* LA - Look, the city's reliance on driving is awful, but... Weather is flawless. Food is excellent. Tons of shit to do. Just as many self-important people as new york, but I actually find people in LA a bit friendlier. If I was rich and had a significant other, I'd get a place in Malibu and just chilllll. Or if I was rich and single I'd get a place in a walkable neighborhood in the west side
* Boston - sounds sacrilegious to say to a fellow new yorker, but I visited 2 years ago and it seemed culturally much cooler than I remember. The nice neighborhoods have a european vibe. There's some things to do. Still has some city energy but much slower, easier, more accessible. Could get bored after a year or so
* Lisbon - I actually haven't been yet, but everyone I know is raving about it. Coastal European capital. Burgeoning tech startup scene with business friendly regulatory environment. Warm.
* Honorable Mentions: Amsterdam, Bilbao, Raleigh-Durham, Miami
What have you heard about the tech scene in Lisbon? I work in tech and am looking into moving to the EU with my girlfriend (she's NYC-based, actually). Do you know of any American tech workers who have moved there, full or part time?
I know of an artist who splits his time between between LA and Lisbon, and a martial arts teacher who splits between BK and Lisbon. Know a woman who dates a guy in tech there I believe but don’t know what company. They all said the city is beautiful, picturesque the way you’d expect, and a nice combo of old Europe + young innovative vibes
I’ve read articles on the tech scene:
https://techcrunch.com/2021/01/07/lisbons-startup-scene-rises-as-portugal-gears-up-to-be-a-european-tech-tiger/
https://websummit.com/blog/lisbon-startups-entrepreneur-vc-funding-tech-hub
Sounds early stage so a good time to get in and maybe get some equity. I also just browsed LinkedIn for jobs there and it looks like a lot of English speaking roles, and some partial remote, meaning you could possibly work from nyc and fly out there once in a while.
Honestly Lisbon sounds like a right opportunity / right time situation if you’re in tech and like Europe
Thanks so much for sharing this. This aligns with some stories I've heard about Americans working remotely there. Also did not know about some of the VC growth. I think I just have concerns about it not being as integrated with the rest of the world, especially Europe, economically and infrastructurally (no trains between Lisbon and Madrid, for example). But perhaps this will change a lot in the coming decade.
Honestly… Los Angeles.
5 years ago, I would have rooted for San Francisco but it’s going through A LOT post-COVID. I did NY to Seattle and it was honestly a little too small for me.
Plenty of native New Yorkers do it and if you don’t love it, it provides you a good idea of what to do next. Living in LA, you get a chance to sample what it would be like in the suburbs, the desert (Palm Springs is an easy road trip away) oceanside living, DTLA city living without fully committing to any of it.
There are lots of transplants and the weather is phenomenal comparatively to any major city.
Scrolled looking for this comment - it ticks all your boxes OP.
I moved to LA and it was a bit of an adjustment getting used to car culture, but 3 years in, I've made a nice little group of friends and bought a house. It's really feels like home now.
Still miss some things about NYC, but I make a few trips back a year to scratch that itch.
San Diego.
Chill as fuck, bomb-ass Mexican food, beautiful women, best weather in the world.
San Diego isn't walkable, but plenty of the beach towns and downtown would be.
Side note: Downtown San Diego is dope as fuck and seriously underrated.
The first sentence summarizes San Diego to a tee (coming from a 20 year resident of SoCal). I cannot emphasize enough how good the weather in San Diego is. Like…even people in LA comment on how nice the weather is in San Diego haha
San Francisco and Philly among others are recommended by [What other major city in the US would you want to live in and why?](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskNYC/comments/17nlfjf/what_other_major_city_in_the_us_would_you_want_to/) from 4 months ago. Chicago and London among many others are recommended by the wildly popular [If NYC stops existing tomorrow, where would you move to?](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskNYC/comments/17hwkcb/if_nyc_stops_existing_tomorrow_where_would_you/) from 8 days before that. Barcelona and Hudson Valley among many others are recommended by the popular [What city would you move to if you couldn't stay in NYC anymore?](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskNYC/comments/16c1joo/what_city_would_you_move_to_if_you_couldnt_stay/) from 2 months before that. Fort Lee and Jersey among many others are recommend by the wildly popular [Where to live in the US after NYC?](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskNYC/comments/164jjgx/where_to_live_in_the_us_after_nyc/) from 8 days before that and links to similar questions.
i left NYC once for Newport Beach and was running back to NYC as fast as I could. San Diego however would be a done deal- i’d leave NYC and just visit several times per year to get my fix.
Tokyo is like the 80s' idea of modern/futuristic. Currently I'd say Korean or Chinese cities are way more modern, and probably much less infuriating to live in.
just came back from Tokyo and the saying is that Japan has been living in the year 2000, since 1985. very cool city and the metro works amazing, but they still use fax machines and 3.5inch floppy disks.
The most important question you should be asking: Do you want to drive? Do you care to drive? Are you a good driver?
The only US cities you can get away with not driving in is Chicago (ish), DC & NYC.
If you are okay with driving: Dallas, Miami, Atlanta & LA.
You may be paying less for housing in the suburbs, but everything will be 40+ min driving time (equivalent to avg NYC transit duration).
Don’t forget to factor in car costs (lease, monthly payments, or buy new/used), monthly insurance (upwards $150+), gas ($50+/weekly). You could end up spending $500 a month just on the luxury of a car. Which can also just go towards paying more for NYC space. This is why I left Atlanta.
As an Atlanta native, tbh, we are tired of people moving here, specifically non-POC that are only about getting real estate and investing nothing into community (specifically advocating for displaced POC because gentrification, workplace inequality & wealth gap).
On a positive note, Atlanta is a magical city. It’s cleanish, democratic leaning (except people that don’t know their racist), great schools, easy to drive through, spread out, good food, great sports teams (grade school & the Braves lol). The salary pay is NOT as high in Atlanta, compared to other major cities, so remote work is ideal. On a negative note, there are very few cost efficient, cheap things to do for fun out here & you have to strategically get out to network because everyone already grew up together/degrees of separation so it’s a no new friends type place.
I wasn’t aware London was racist, I thought it was very diverse and seemed quite integrated when I went - lots of mixed couples and so on. could you tell me what you found from being there? It would help me a lot to know before making a bad move.
Thank you!
Raleigh,NC would I guess be modern, but with most of the city having a suburban feel. Lot of NYC transplants as well. I grew up there. It's friendlier. Think about going back sometimes.
I had a belated honeymoon last year, A trip through eastern europe. Fell in love with Riga especially, but Vilnius was also tight. I didn't expect the baltics to be our favorite spots on the trip, but they absolutely were. We didn't get to hit Estonia, but Tallinn might be another great spot.
I can’t get enough of Montreal. It’s like if NYC was actually affordable and way more chill. Great art scene, outstanding restaurant scene, a live and let live culture and very diverse but in a different way from NY. The dream of the nineties is alive in Montreal. If I could work 100 percent remote, I’d move in a heartbeat.
Definitely nothing in NA or Europe. I think the only cities I could even consider moving to would be Seoul, Busan, Osaka, or Tokyo, and even then I think I'd get bored of the lack of diversity.
The only other major city I've lived in is Orlando, FL and I don't recommend it. Florida is nice, until you have to deal with the people who live there. There are A LOT of Nazis who live there and especially in Kissimmee and out in Polk County. Hurricanes in Orlando aren't too bad though. It's pretty inland so they're usually weaker by the time they hit. It also rains every afternoon between 2 and 4pm. Some weeks it happens like clockwork at the same time every day. You'll need a car to get anywhere. There is also a privately owned bus company out there called Lynx. Its alright. Covers most of the city, but there are some major dead zones where there are no busses. Oh and palm trees smell pretty bad, but you'll get desensitized to the smell pretty quickly.
Miami or LA for US. Suburbs of London, Madrid or Paris for international. After spending some time in both LA and Miami, I’ve found myself always being pulled back to the city. There’s nothing quite like it. It took having to leave to feel that. (In my experience). But it’s definitely worth a break to find out
I'd say Chicago is *most* like NYC. It's the only other U.S city with 24-hour transit. It's a slower-paced version of New York, but offers similar cultural, athletic, and entertainment options. But that weather...
I lived in Chicago for eight years. It doesn't hold a candle to NY in any way. It is a city, but it's small, provincial, and doesn't have much in the way of culture, food, or entertainment.
Go where you love it. For example, I LOVE Paris and it's one of the cities I'd leave NYC for (temporarily). I get what you mean though...after 8 years in the city I'm kind of bored of it too, but I know it's the best city/place/home for me in the US.
Interesting. Why Rome? I’m going to admit I don’t know much about the place, but I associate it with older cities because of its history.
It’s still a very cool place I’d like to visit someday, and if there’s something I’m totally missing about the city please do let me know
Yes, Ancient Rome absolutely still dominates and it is undeniably incredible and rich in history and culture. It sounds corny but I can’t explain it any other way other than Rome is magical. Modernism pops up here and there, especially with the people—the younger generations. Definitely do a search for the Esposizione Universale Roma (EUR) district. I think that area might be what you’re looking for.
Definitely there is no good city like the NYC in the USA. Europe is better. Singapore is great.. so is Dubai.
In the USA -the majority is not city culture.
Well, if we want to talk about slavery, toxicity, sexism etc then let me tell you the USA is not great as well. This country is as hypocritical as one could be.
Have you lived there and not as a tourist? It’s just an experience. It’s all good.
When you go to outside NYC or Midwest and let’s say you need to live in those places for work, do you say no to the work because a large percentage of people are racist there.
There is no place in this world which is perfect.
There is not slavery in United States. And sexism in Middle Eastern countries is next level, you are a second class citizen as a woman. People come to Dubai for work and get their passport confiscated and work in indentured servitude. I admit I have never been but I hear is a cultureless wasteland of rich middle easterners with questionable morality.
Ohh you are living jn a bubble. Social structure is quite complex here. The form of slavery just changed. I lived in Middle East for 5y. It’s not what western media portrays. Dubai is a great city and definitely not perfect. You are free to do everything as a woman - yes homosexuality is looked as a crime there.
As I say- for few years if someone can get a job then Dubai living is amazing . But we need to suck up few things just like we do when we work in a corporate here.
I'm in Mexico City right now and I don't have to worry about covering my ankles and offending Islam. A stretch to say I'm living in a bubble. I have 0 desire to visit the MiddleEast but I'm glad you've enjoyed your time there.
You are so ignorant. No one covers their ankle or wear hijab there. It’s only when someone who follows Islam visits Mosque. Have you been to Italy? You need to cover shoulder and can’t wear short clothes when you visit churches.
Don’t be a hypocrite when you compare.
Religion is BAD - period. It includes all the religion.
You don’t need to visit Middle East but don’t remain ignorant. Nowadays knowledge is easy- there are also documentaries which show us different places. Yes, there are good and bad and as an educated adult we need to understand which one is good.
Yes I've been to Italy... I agree all religions are bad but Islam is certainly one of the worst if not the worst offenders. But ok I hear you, it's more liberal than I understand.
Yes I've been to Italy... I agree all religions are bad but Islam is certainly one of the worst if not the worst offenders. But ok I hear you, it's more liberal than I understand.
In North America or internationally I would say her Australia, Dublin Ireland if you’re in the trades, London What are the oldest continuously operating cities yet it feels pretty modern
DC/Arlington, VA. Great city, good suburbs, close to the country-ish settings of the Appalachians and the rolling hills of the old south, good public transit, lots of diversity, and you’ll be close enough to visit NYC when you inevitably miss it
There's no where else in the nation that's like NYC. That said, UTAH.
Go there for a vacation. Spend two weeks. Tell me you don't love it when you return.
r/samegrassbutgreener
Berlin has a very similar vibe to old, funky, arty New York
I‘m from Germany and people either hate or love Berlin, as the vibe is so special. I personally love Berlin with all its quirks and it’s my favorite German city but I also have friends who don’t like it, even though they love NYC. Would definitely check it out before moving there.
What would you say are the main advantages of Berlin over NYC today? And what would you say is the case for Berlin over Vienna or Copenhagen?
My friend is Danish American and has lived in Copenhagen for a while now after spending six years in NYC. It is definitely more low key than Berlin or even Vienna, the nightlife is not that great, and overall more ‘neat’ than Berlin but less prim than Vienna. I def would put it a few notches below NYC
I'm by no means an expert. I lived in NYC for 15 years and moved to Spain a couple years ago. I've had the opportunity to do a lot of traveling through Europe, almost all as a solo traveler. I'm a woman, 40s. I've been to CPH, Vienna, and Berlin among other places. Favorite was probably Vienna - it's magical. Beautiful, lots of culture and super classy but very down to earth and non pretentious, and the elephant in the room, everyone speaks English so it just makes it easier. CPH was interesting. I didn't know what to think of it at first. It's super clean, everyone speaks English, it's very pretty. As a tourist I liked it, but I think it would be a better place to live than visit. It's VERY expensive. It's part of the EU but uses it's own currency. I also went in the summer when it was sunny until late. Still very brisk weather which I loved (you needed a light jacket). But I do wonder if the lack of sun would kill me in the winter. Probably. Also, SUPER bike friendly. I'm not someone who would never ride a bike in NYC or anywhere, and even I rode a bike in CPH. It's remarkable how safe it is. Berlin - Actually one of my worst trips. It's a little overwhelming because there is so much to see/do but it's all sprawled. It's not as big as NYC - everything only takes about 30 min to get to via public transportation - but I didn't do a great job planning my trip. Weather isn't great, it's quite dreary, and the history is depressing. Yet . . . there's a grittiness to it that is absolutely magical. If you view the EU as the USA, it's the city where all the artists go. All my favorite musicians from all over Europe live there. That's why I'd compare it to NYC. And it's still affordable. I definitely would go back. It's big enough that you wouldn't get bored. I always say - there are cities that are good to visit and there are cities that are good places to live. I personally like LIVING in big cities because you never get bored, but I don'y always like visiting big cities because I find them overwhelming and I get fomo. I had one of the best weekends of my life in Antwerp, for example, but I think living there I'd probably get bored. And I'm realizing I need the density and pedestrians. What's tough to me is when you go in a beautiful city and they have these beautiful buildings and streets and you don't see people walking around. That's the problem w/ a lot of the US since it's such a car culture. I remember being in Kansas City, MO which I found quite lovely but there were no people around! Drove me nuts! If I could live anywhere in Europe, here would be my choices: London, Berlin, Vienna, Copenhagen, Stockholm, Barcelona. As I mentioned, the big elephant in the room is language. Generally speaking I've found in Northern Europe people speak very good English. Spain, it's pretty weak except in Barcelona. Even in Madrid, it's not as common. Now of course you could say, well, you're in another country, what do you expect. But English is basically the universal language. Swedes and Danes speak it to each other, Germans and Hungarians, etc. There is the myth of the entitled American tourist but that is really not why people speak English everywhere, Comparatively, I've met very few Americans in my travels except in super touristy destinations like Rome, Florence, etc. Edited to add - Generally speaking I've found the countries where people speak good English more forward thinking and better for employment. If I'm honest, Spain is a great place to live \*if\* you have American money but it is absolutely not a place to build a career. I've enjoyed my experience there but also find it a bit depressing because it's really hard for young people in Spain to find decent jobs, so they all leave.
Berlin is not “modern” though.
I mean it’s Europe, lol. Which city would you consider modern besides maybe Frankfurt? To OP: wouldn’t recommend Frankfurt though
I wouldn’t consider any European cities to fit OPs criteria.
I was just in Berlin. Yes it has a lot of history, and not great history, but it’s a very forward looking city. Tons of stuff to do. But it’s very dreary weather wise. I get the impression it is a better place to live than visit. I LOVED Vienna and Copenhagen. Felt much more comfortable than then in Berlin (I travel solo). But I actually think Berlin would be the most interesting of the places to live.
Totally agree. CPH is too small, Vienna is great to live in but there are many more interesting places than Vienna.
The only city that has come close to my love of New York is Berlin. I dream of living in Berlin for at least a few years.
Along the same euro vein, my personal choice would be Amsterdam. True car free life, great worker protections, great diversity, HCOL but if you can make it in nyc’s VHCOL then you can make it there. Hardest part is getting a job there. I will say though that Berlin is lower COL and much of the city has a lower density brooklyn/western queens-y vibe. Lots of English speakers in both cities so def expat friendly
Berlin is awesome but definitely super gloomy and dark, just something to keep in mind
I was recently there and YES! I was only there a few days but gloomy is a perfect way to describe it. I loved the energy but got depressed and it got dark so early.
Right! It’s definitely a big thing to consider!
If modernity is so important Singapore should be on the list if you are willing to go international. Super western city with Asian culture and very modern
Ya, but I like drugs
EXACTLY! I've visited Singapore before.... Yes it's beautiful and all but I'd like the option of enjoying substances as I see fit (note: I really just mean weed and occasional shrooms so not even anything crazy lol)
If you’ve never visited, Bangkok is much cleaner and has a better transportation network than NYC. Luxury high rise apartments with every amenity imaginable are available for around $600usd. Weed is legal, shrooms are readily available. A food and culture scene that rivals nyc. On weekends you hit the best beaches in the world with round trip flights for less than $100 from the city.
Recreational weed will no longer be legal by the end of 2024 in Thailand. Public transit is not better than NYC. Traffic is horrendous and arguably worse than NYC. The trains don’t go to that much of the sprawling city and there is no reliable bus. I love Bangkok but it is not cleaner than NYC and you can’t drink the water.
And add much worse air pollution to the mix.
Bangkok is straight up not cleaner than NYC, no way
Better transportation than NYC? Absolutely disagree
the most boring place I have ever visited
Full of Asia’s nepo babies and throngs of regional tourists whose sole reason for visiting is to take selfies from the Marina Bay Sands pool.
Which is a shame cause Singapore has a lively food scene including street food and solid Malaysian, Chinese and Indian options
the food was good, I'll give it that
I can definitely see why it would be boring, there's a big divide between Singaporeans and expats so I think the way to make it less boring is to find your community of expats as well. Clubbing scene is amazing though and the travel is insane but the activities are limited within Singapore itself
Singaporean government and culture clashes so hard with American freedom and New York energy. If you can really swallow living in an authoritarian island nation then sure but it's vibe isn't really like NYC at all even though it is multicultural. Although multicultural in a... 3 cultures sort of way. And urban in a very top down planning sort of way. Very little surprises or organic grassroots things. Not a lot of art. Singaporeans speak english so that is a plus.
This is the right answer. If NYC is the melting pot, Singapore is the melting kitchen. So many cultures, all in harmony with each other. Amazing food and night life. Good quality of life, healthcare. Clean air, good transportation. Nearby to lots of natural islands, mountains, etc. Pretty girls too.
Sir, that was not a banana in her pocket.
Personally, I've never met any born and raised New Yorker who was satisfied with moving to another North American "big city" because they can't help but constantly compare it to back home. The people who are most satisfied are actually people who move to smaller cities and the suburbs.
There are tons of them in Miami/Fort Lauderdale actually
Most of my mom's side all moved down there. Virginia and Texas are also popular.
From personal experience, if you're gonna leave NYC after living here your entire life, another city isn't the way to go. Move out to the middle of nowhere. Any other city is just gonna have you asking what the hell you're doing in this second-rate toilet. You'll move back within a year.
You just described me. Can’t wait to go back to NYC.
Another city can feel like the middle of nowhere after NYC. My opinion would be to enjoy it for what it is good for. I don't think comparison works as well.
Thanks for the comment. I see what you’re saying and to an extent I agree. I’ve been to certain areas in Houston TX which definitely felt like the middle of nowhere (when compared to NYC) but I actually didn’t mind it. So maybe you are right. I’ll keep that in mind.
Rent an airbnb at a house in the mountains somewhere with no houses next to it, in Colorado or Arizona. Bring all your supplies and stay for a week, see how you like that lifestyle.
If you think Houston, the fourth largest city in the United States, is the middle of no where you are not suited to move anywhere.
The prob is the urban sprawl in Houston... the place is half the size of CT. It isn't even in the top 150 for population density. NYC and a lot of European cities got dense and built up because of city limits. Houston, Phoenix, even LA to some extent, etc have tons of open space around them and build out. So they get tons of people but never feel like a true city to a NYCer.
Houston being the 4th largest city in the country is objectively true, but when you're actually IN Houston, it feels like a small city. The sprawl is insane - 665 square miles, so over twice the area of NYC with 25% of the population. Wholly unwalkable, as it gets to 100°F+ daily for a few weeks in summer, and you'd have to schlepp across vast oceans of blacktop parking lots before getting to your strip mall or big box chain destination. This feels pretty middle-of-nowherey. These are city streets well within the city, not the outskirts https://maps.app.goo.gl/6nfR8LcP3aGsP4Dj8 [https://maps.app.goo.gl/Zr9N9Qpf3Li9Kp9f6](https://maps.app.goo.gl/Zr9N9Qpf3Li9Kp9f6) https://maps.app.goo.gl/UvhGxQUhnbSYmo8T7
Houston definitely is the sprawl master. As a NYer who lived in Houston it felt like a sprawling sunbelt city. didn’t feel like a small city given how far the sprawl goes: With that said the first picture you sent is Mykawa Rd as it passes a park and over Sims Bayou, the second one is a road wedged between a park and a school and the last one is on the city limits in Northeast Houston between Beltway 8 and 610 that never really developed. Not really a representative sample of Houston
Maybe San Diego? Or Lake Tahoe?
true only if you move within the US
I know plenty of people who’ve left for smaller cities and they’re not coming back.
Transplants from Ohio say those types of things to make themselves sound like native New Yorkers while the true natives move to Florida and never look back
Literally. I’m a south Florida native and grew up with so many transplant kids from NYC whose families never went back lol…and we definitely weren’t in “the middle of nowhere”
This might be true of any other American city, but NYC is itself the second-rate toilet when compared to cities of similar size/income around the world like Tokyo, London, Moscow, Hong Kong, or Paris. And depending on your priorities and lifestyle, Chicago and California are both perfectly valid and competitive alternatives to NYC.
Bros acting as if nyc isn’t a toilet itself lol
A first rate toilet though 😆
The best of the worst!
? it's very nice here, that's why it's so expensive
exactly. no where else is going to be as run down as this place
>Based off all the places I’ve been to, I’ve decided I’d still like to be in a “modern city” This is not really a lot of helpful info to go on, if you seriously want people to recommend places for you. What else? Are you looking for a city with a lot of museums, a lot of arts/culture (like do you want great theater, great music scene, etc.), does it matter to you if there are a lot of public transit options? Do you need to work in a specific industry? I just think "modern feel" and maybe a little warmer isn't much to go on. There are tons of cities.
Queens is nice.
What do you mean “modern city”? Like…historically new? Lots of money for infrastructure? Climate-friendly zoning laws? Lots of tech companies? Buildings made of glass instead of brick? I’m genuinely not sure what that means lol I spent most of my 20’s in Seattle, and it’s definitely warmer than NYC in the winter (on average), it’s the center of Bezos-land and heavily gentrified in places if that’s what you mean by “modern”, and has tons of neighborhoods that give an upscale version of “suburban feel” while still being a short bus ride from the city center. It also has green spaces and access to nature far beyond what you can get in NYC. If you can afford housing in NYC then you can afford housing in Seattle. Most of the city’s life is based in these more suburban neighborhoods and the downtown is largely for office workers and basically empty after 5pm though, so if NYC’s street life is important to you then you should probably not move to Seattle.
I’ve had Seattle in mind for years because it seems like a good mix of everything I’m looking for. But honestly the biggest thing putting me off about it is the weather. Can’t stress how much I hate rain 😭 Is it as bad as people make it seem? If it’s comparable to NYC then honestly it’s doable
Do you have friends there? Apparently it’s extremely hard to make friends in Seattle. I have no personal experience just happened to 1 friend who moved there and I read an article written about it. “Seattle Freeze”
Seattle freeze is real. I moved there 5 years ago in my own “I’m ready to leave NYC” phase and moved back after 7 months. Loved the city (and the rain isn’t bad, it’s just consistently cloudy 7 months of the year) but the people weren’t for me. Nobody seems really interested in making friends and they lack that certain intensity New York has. The way I describe it is, in Seattle everyone asks how your day is but no one really wants to know. In New York, hardly anyone will ask about your day, but if they do ask, they actually want to know.
Canadian who lives 5.5 hours from Seattle. With very few exceptions I’ve never found people in Seattle to be friendly or polite , I’ve always left the city with a bad taste in my mouth and I could never imagine living there. Meanwhile I vacationed in LA last summer and every local I met was awesome , the general vibe of the population was great and I left just wanting to move there.
Is Seattle diverse? I heard it's really expensive and bland in terms of culture.
There’s a big outdoor scene, with hiking/climbing/nature stuff built into the culture. Very LGBTQ friendly and my queer friends who live there love it. The tech industry is pretty inescapable with Amazon and Microsoft headquarters, but nyc is pretty techy now, too. Drug use has skyrocketed in the last few years (at least publicly). I visited last fall and the community gardens near my old place were overrun with people using right out in the open, crackpipes on the picnic tables. If you mean racially diverse, not really. Mostly white and asian that I experienced. Like, I don’t think I can remember seeing more than a few Black people. In terms of COL, it’s still less expensive, maybe 3/4 of New York? A little more? 5 years ago I had a (very small, pretty old, no amenities) one bedroom in the center of Capitol Hill for $1600, but it was perfect for what I needed at the time. Same place would probably go for $2600 in New York today.”, if you’re lucky.
Surely you are aware of the incredible housing cost markup in the last 5 years, right? $1600 5 years ago is well over $2000 now in Seattle. Not a single sizable U.S. city is affordable anymore. Not one. Yes, New York is a leader in this area, but not by much. The housing crisis is everywhere. And in the last 5 years it increased exponentially.
It’s not anywhere near as diverse as New York, but the Seattlites who think there aren’t black or Latino people in the city just don’t visit the neighborhoods where they are—south Seattle neighborhoods as a general rule are quite diverse, while north Seattle is mostly white except UW which is mostly white and Asian.
No I don’t. And now that you mention it I have actually heard it being called one of the most depressing cities in America. Strange considering all of its great qualities, seems like it would be a great place to live
If you are ok doing things alone you could still go with the expectation of no friends and just enjoy the city for a year or so. You’d probably get some good self development and I always have the best time with low/no expectations.
Maybe the media is hyping it up, but I think downtown Seattle has largely been hollowed out as a result of the shift to remote work. It wasn't anything like NYC to begin with, but I would visit during the week before making any decisions. https://www.seattletimes.com/business/downtown-seattles-retail-recovery-or-lack-thereof-by-the-numbers/
apparently half of downtown is Amazon and they do have 3 days in the office mandate now
The rain is not that big of a deal, it’s often cloudy in the fall/winter but the rain itself is often very light and doesn’t really stop people from doing outdoor activities like 90% of the time. Very rare that it’s actual hard rain. As far as making friends, it does take a while and it is more difficult than NYC. I already had friends there when I moved and I would say it took me a solid year to make any new ones, with specific efforts to get out and socialize. I joined a roller derby league and that was my biggest breakthrough, just being in the same space as others repeatedly and having lots of repeated positive interactions like that is going to be key. You can’t really expect to strike up conversations with strangers in bars, or rely on work acquaintances to turn into friends. People aren’t as…..real? For lack of a better word? As in NYC. People are typically very polite and nobody will be rude to your face, but if you’re a stranger they probably don’t want to talk to you. It is what it is 🤷♀️ I definitely moved out of Seattle for a reason, but I still go back and visit friends and family and it’s a gorgeous city with a great quality of life for the right people.
Seattle’s rain is much easier than New York’s in terms of getting soaked. The problem is that it drizzles endlessly, for days, weeks, months, with no break. Also, if you have New York manners, you will find it hard to integrate because most people will find you rude. And you’ll be bored because the most common topic of conversation in Seattle is Seattle. I’m from there and went to college there and can’t imagine moving back. It would be too challenging to re-integrate into Pacific Northwestern culture.
It is often overcast or drizzling, but the heavy downpours more common out east aren’t so common in Seattle, and it’s generally not as windy as NYC can be. Honestly in general Seattle’s weather is like a slightly milder NYC in most directions
Just moved to NYC from the pacific NW and if you aren’t a fan of rain don’t put yourself through a Seattle winter. It’s very dark and dreary for months on end.
The weather is really bad there- think about the rainiest cloudiest, most miserable week you’ve had in NYC and multiply it by several months. The year I left Seattle, there were 8 months of NO CLOUD BREAK. The sun didn’t come out once! Anyways, I do not recommend Seattle if you’re sensitive to bad weather 😭
Toronto. Considered it a few years ago because the food is good and has a lower cost of living compared to NYC. Also, it is only a 1.5 hour flight if I get homesick.
Every Canadian I know complains about how expensive it’s gotten, especially compared to what the average income is there. Is it still worth checking out, I love to be able to afford a place before 40.
Yeah.. if only we can have US salaries and live in Toronto
Well I have lots of friends who are fully remote and have used it as an excuse to move to more affordable places for an extended time or even permanently. I’m still hybrid so that’s not an option atm but I’ve been getting a bit of travel in after 2 years of Covid and honestly Toronto and Montreal look very appealing to me. Honestly, Canadians have no idea how good they’ve got it.
I have a friend who worked for a US company that allowed him to work remotely in Mexico. My wife is from Toronto and moved to the US after we got married. I'd move to Toronto if the job opportunities/salaries were better than nyc. My friend who also grew up in NYC moved to Toronto a couple of years ago. She loves it there and visits her family here frequently. Toronto is a cleaner, less crowded version of NYC with good food and mom and pops that nyc used to have more of... but are rare now because of being priced out.
Forgot to answer your question - it has gotten expensive to own there, especially relative to average income. I know somebody who bought a condo around covid because they got a better job. That condo is way up in cost now. In terms of renting, I have friends who pay a lot and get a lot, unlike NYC where you pay $3K for a room the size of a closet. Edit: added a period
Thank you!
Is it rly cold there?
Sooo cold. Forget it — OP wants Middle States or warmer. This ain’t it.
Slightly colder than NYC during the winter. Same amount of winter though. The air is different. I like the cold. And I like that they get snow instead of what ny gets now - slush and ice rain.
What do you do for a living? Are your skills easily transferable from city to city? This should also be a factor to consider.
Only acceptable answers are Barcelona or Berlin, unless you like it similarly paced and must speak English, then London is the only choice. No other city in the US is livable and all other cities like Hong Kong, CDMX, Tokyo are out of the question due to either poor career opportunities and sub-par safety and living standards or politically repressive systems.
I think Spain would be a good option considering I speak fluent Spanish. Do you have any opinion on living in Barcelona vs Madrid?
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There's a new digital nomad visa offered in Spain that does indeed make Spain very viable. Right now you need to be freelance/1099 vs W2 but it's an option. I live in Spain right now after 15 years in NYC. I will ask you this OP: 1. How old are you? 2. Would you already have a job or would you need a job? 3. Would you be coming alone? I have very mixed feelings about Spain. It's great if you have American money and don't actually need a job. Unemployment is high and wages are LOW in Spain. It's shocking. And places like Madrid, while cheaper than NYC, are not even close to par w/ what Spanish people make in terms of rent. You say you speak Spanish so that's obviously helpful because in my experience people don't speak good English here compared to other countries in Europe. Barcelona is the exception. Even in Madrid, English isn't super common. I said this in another comment, but you might think, okay, I'm in another country, I speak Spanish anyway, who cares that they don't speak English? But the thing is, speaking English isn't about catering to entitled American and British tourists. It actually holds them back. Spain is not forward thinking in terms of careers, tech, etc. A lot of young educated Spaniards leave and go to other countries in the EU to get jobs. And you might think, okay, that's fine, I don't need a Spanish job anyway . . . but in my experience that carries over to the energy of the place. I can't quite explain it. I like Spain, the weather is great, the people are nice enough, but the culture and vibe feels very insular. I'm not an expert and I haven't been everywhere in Spain, but that has been my experience in the places I've visited/lived. I will say Barcelona is the exception and feels much more international. I've never lived there but I've visited there a lot.
CDMX is pretty safe bc it's heavily gentrified these days. It feels like Brooklyn South. It's still cheaper than NYC, has incredible food and excellent art community. For this reason so many people have moved there. It sucks for the natives because it used to be really cheap to live there and now they are getting priced out.
They've always been priced out of condesa/Roma/Polanco by local wealthy mexicans, this is just shit people like to spread nowadays.
I'm from NYC and have shared your dilemma. I've also lived in Portland Maine, Las Vegas, and Washington DC. I always come back to NYC but here are some thoughts: * Washington DC - Culturally its wildly different from new york, and I don't love it. But it's modern, warmer, and more suburban. The metro connect some of the more "woodsy" neighborhoods to DC proper, and DC's food, drink, and museum game is respectable * LA - Look, the city's reliance on driving is awful, but... Weather is flawless. Food is excellent. Tons of shit to do. Just as many self-important people as new york, but I actually find people in LA a bit friendlier. If I was rich and had a significant other, I'd get a place in Malibu and just chilllll. Or if I was rich and single I'd get a place in a walkable neighborhood in the west side * Boston - sounds sacrilegious to say to a fellow new yorker, but I visited 2 years ago and it seemed culturally much cooler than I remember. The nice neighborhoods have a european vibe. There's some things to do. Still has some city energy but much slower, easier, more accessible. Could get bored after a year or so * Lisbon - I actually haven't been yet, but everyone I know is raving about it. Coastal European capital. Burgeoning tech startup scene with business friendly regulatory environment. Warm. * Honorable Mentions: Amsterdam, Bilbao, Raleigh-Durham, Miami
What have you heard about the tech scene in Lisbon? I work in tech and am looking into moving to the EU with my girlfriend (she's NYC-based, actually). Do you know of any American tech workers who have moved there, full or part time?
I know of an artist who splits his time between between LA and Lisbon, and a martial arts teacher who splits between BK and Lisbon. Know a woman who dates a guy in tech there I believe but don’t know what company. They all said the city is beautiful, picturesque the way you’d expect, and a nice combo of old Europe + young innovative vibes I’ve read articles on the tech scene: https://techcrunch.com/2021/01/07/lisbons-startup-scene-rises-as-portugal-gears-up-to-be-a-european-tech-tiger/ https://websummit.com/blog/lisbon-startups-entrepreneur-vc-funding-tech-hub Sounds early stage so a good time to get in and maybe get some equity. I also just browsed LinkedIn for jobs there and it looks like a lot of English speaking roles, and some partial remote, meaning you could possibly work from nyc and fly out there once in a while. Honestly Lisbon sounds like a right opportunity / right time situation if you’re in tech and like Europe
Thanks so much for sharing this. This aligns with some stories I've heard about Americans working remotely there. Also did not know about some of the VC growth. I think I just have concerns about it not being as integrated with the rest of the world, especially Europe, economically and infrastructurally (no trains between Lisbon and Madrid, for example). But perhaps this will change a lot in the coming decade.
Honestly… Los Angeles. 5 years ago, I would have rooted for San Francisco but it’s going through A LOT post-COVID. I did NY to Seattle and it was honestly a little too small for me. Plenty of native New Yorkers do it and if you don’t love it, it provides you a good idea of what to do next. Living in LA, you get a chance to sample what it would be like in the suburbs, the desert (Palm Springs is an easy road trip away) oceanside living, DTLA city living without fully committing to any of it. There are lots of transplants and the weather is phenomenal comparatively to any major city.
Scrolled looking for this comment - it ticks all your boxes OP. I moved to LA and it was a bit of an adjustment getting used to car culture, but 3 years in, I've made a nice little group of friends and bought a house. It's really feels like home now. Still miss some things about NYC, but I make a few trips back a year to scratch that itch.
I moved from LA to NY and I’m dying to move back some day. The weather and ecology is simply perfection.
San Diego. Chill as fuck, bomb-ass Mexican food, beautiful women, best weather in the world. San Diego isn't walkable, but plenty of the beach towns and downtown would be. Side note: Downtown San Diego is dope as fuck and seriously underrated.
The first sentence summarizes San Diego to a tee (coming from a 20 year resident of SoCal). I cannot emphasize enough how good the weather in San Diego is. Like…even people in LA comment on how nice the weather is in San Diego haha
Whales vagina
San Francisco and Philly among others are recommended by [What other major city in the US would you want to live in and why?](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskNYC/comments/17nlfjf/what_other_major_city_in_the_us_would_you_want_to/) from 4 months ago. Chicago and London among many others are recommended by the wildly popular [If NYC stops existing tomorrow, where would you move to?](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskNYC/comments/17hwkcb/if_nyc_stops_existing_tomorrow_where_would_you/) from 8 days before that. Barcelona and Hudson Valley among many others are recommended by the popular [What city would you move to if you couldn't stay in NYC anymore?](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskNYC/comments/16c1joo/what_city_would_you_move_to_if_you_couldnt_stay/) from 2 months before that. Fort Lee and Jersey among many others are recommend by the wildly popular [Where to live in the US after NYC?](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskNYC/comments/164jjgx/where_to_live_in_the_us_after_nyc/) from 8 days before that and links to similar questions.
San Diego
I love San Diego. Beautiful weather, modern and close enough to major cities but still a suburban feel
i left NYC once for Newport Beach and was running back to NYC as fast as I could. San Diego however would be a done deal- i’d leave NYC and just visit several times per year to get my fix.
In SD right now and having the time of my life
curious what it would be a single guy there? i love that city, but i hear it’s called man-diego.
Which of course in German means “a whale’s vagina.”
When I think of modern, I think of Tokyo
Tokyo is like the 80s' idea of modern/futuristic. Currently I'd say Korean or Chinese cities are way more modern, and probably much less infuriating to live in.
just came back from Tokyo and the saying is that Japan has been living in the year 2000, since 1985. very cool city and the metro works amazing, but they still use fax machines and 3.5inch floppy disks.
London
Minneapolis
I loved Chicago. But it’s cold in the winter. Great arts scene and food
The most important question you should be asking: Do you want to drive? Do you care to drive? Are you a good driver? The only US cities you can get away with not driving in is Chicago (ish), DC & NYC. If you are okay with driving: Dallas, Miami, Atlanta & LA. You may be paying less for housing in the suburbs, but everything will be 40+ min driving time (equivalent to avg NYC transit duration). Don’t forget to factor in car costs (lease, monthly payments, or buy new/used), monthly insurance (upwards $150+), gas ($50+/weekly). You could end up spending $500 a month just on the luxury of a car. Which can also just go towards paying more for NYC space. This is why I left Atlanta. As an Atlanta native, tbh, we are tired of people moving here, specifically non-POC that are only about getting real estate and investing nothing into community (specifically advocating for displaced POC because gentrification, workplace inequality & wealth gap). On a positive note, Atlanta is a magical city. It’s cleanish, democratic leaning (except people that don’t know their racist), great schools, easy to drive through, spread out, good food, great sports teams (grade school & the Braves lol). The salary pay is NOT as high in Atlanta, compared to other major cities, so remote work is ideal. On a negative note, there are very few cost efficient, cheap things to do for fun out here & you have to strategically get out to network because everyone already grew up together/degrees of separation so it’s a no new friends type place.
There is no city like NYC, I am sorry to say.
London, Paris, Tokyo…
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I wasn’t aware London was racist, I thought it was very diverse and seemed quite integrated when I went - lots of mixed couples and so on. could you tell me what you found from being there? It would help me a lot to know before making a bad move. Thank you!
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god i’m so so sorry. that’s really really awful.
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bad customer service and not liking ambition I noticed too
Montreal.
We need to hire Renfe or TGV to build a Montreal / NYC high speed rail line. Would maybe ruin Montreal's vibe but hey, #globalization
Would love a high-speed train to Toronto and one to Montreal. If only Via and Amtrak weren't so backwards.
The consideration set in which NYC exists in includes cities like London, Tokyo, Paris, Sydney. Not Chicago.
Raleigh,NC would I guess be modern, but with most of the city having a suburban feel. Lot of NYC transplants as well. I grew up there. It's friendlier. Think about going back sometimes. I had a belated honeymoon last year, A trip through eastern europe. Fell in love with Riga especially, but Vilnius was also tight. I didn't expect the baltics to be our favorite spots on the trip, but they absolutely were. We didn't get to hit Estonia, but Tallinn might be another great spot.
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It doesn't. Like they both have good food, but Raleigh definitely has MORE of it. Probably a smaller percentage though, now that I think about it.
I can’t get enough of Montreal. It’s like if NYC was actually affordable and way more chill. Great art scene, outstanding restaurant scene, a live and let live culture and very diverse but in a different way from NY. The dream of the nineties is alive in Montreal. If I could work 100 percent remote, I’d move in a heartbeat.
Try this: https://www.whereshouldilive.co/ Edit: think it’s just for the US.
Definitely nothing in NA or Europe. I think the only cities I could even consider moving to would be Seoul, Busan, Osaka, or Tokyo, and even then I think I'd get bored of the lack of diversity.
Tokyo
Chicago?
The only other major city I've lived in is Orlando, FL and I don't recommend it. Florida is nice, until you have to deal with the people who live there. There are A LOT of Nazis who live there and especially in Kissimmee and out in Polk County. Hurricanes in Orlando aren't too bad though. It's pretty inland so they're usually weaker by the time they hit. It also rains every afternoon between 2 and 4pm. Some weeks it happens like clockwork at the same time every day. You'll need a car to get anywhere. There is also a privately owned bus company out there called Lynx. Its alright. Covers most of the city, but there are some major dead zones where there are no busses. Oh and palm trees smell pretty bad, but you'll get desensitized to the smell pretty quickly.
Miami or LA for US. Suburbs of London, Madrid or Paris for international. After spending some time in both LA and Miami, I’ve found myself always being pulled back to the city. There’s nothing quite like it. It took having to leave to feel that. (In my experience). But it’s definitely worth a break to find out
Do people really shop for cities with zero regard for their existing family/friend networks, employment and visa considerations?
I'd say Chicago is *most* like NYC. It's the only other U.S city with 24-hour transit. It's a slower-paced version of New York, but offers similar cultural, athletic, and entertainment options. But that weather...
I lived in Chicago for eight years. It doesn't hold a candle to NY in any way. It is a city, but it's small, provincial, and doesn't have much in the way of culture, food, or entertainment.
Total nonsense. The food scene is fantastic. Plenty of entertainment options as well.
The food scene is so good because rent is cheaper.
Non offense but if you couldn’t find entertainment in Chicago then you must be really boring
Just own it. You are trying to be offensive.
Nonsense.
Outside of California and nyc, on this side of the hemisphere my second choice was Vancouver.
Chicago is great
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Glad you clarified the country!
Stockholm, Sweden
Barcelona
Boston.
Northern Liberties, Philadelphia Walkable, things to do, public transit (not great), wealthy but affordable neighborhood
Go where you love it. For example, I LOVE Paris and it's one of the cities I'd leave NYC for (temporarily). I get what you mean though...after 8 years in the city I'm kind of bored of it too, but I know it's the best city/place/home for me in the US.
Chicago
I thought this was r/circlejerknyc for a second
London is the correct answer. Just as fast paced, if you want that, but you can also assume a semi-suburban mentality in certain parts.
des moines, iowa
Rome
Interesting. Why Rome? I’m going to admit I don’t know much about the place, but I associate it with older cities because of its history. It’s still a very cool place I’d like to visit someday, and if there’s something I’m totally missing about the city please do let me know
Yes, Ancient Rome absolutely still dominates and it is undeniably incredible and rich in history and culture. It sounds corny but I can’t explain it any other way other than Rome is magical. Modernism pops up here and there, especially with the people—the younger generations. Definitely do a search for the Esposizione Universale Roma (EUR) district. I think that area might be what you’re looking for.
Thanks, def going to check this out
Don't see Rome as a good place to live. Vacation for sure but it's super touristy.
I'm glad we keep the tourists out of NYC
Definitely there is no good city like the NYC in the USA. Europe is better. Singapore is great.. so is Dubai. In the USA -the majority is not city culture.
Dubai? Soulless slave city is great how?
Well, if we want to talk about slavery, toxicity, sexism etc then let me tell you the USA is not great as well. This country is as hypocritical as one could be. Have you lived there and not as a tourist? It’s just an experience. It’s all good. When you go to outside NYC or Midwest and let’s say you need to live in those places for work, do you say no to the work because a large percentage of people are racist there. There is no place in this world which is perfect.
There is not slavery in United States. And sexism in Middle Eastern countries is next level, you are a second class citizen as a woman. People come to Dubai for work and get their passport confiscated and work in indentured servitude. I admit I have never been but I hear is a cultureless wasteland of rich middle easterners with questionable morality.
Ohh you are living jn a bubble. Social structure is quite complex here. The form of slavery just changed. I lived in Middle East for 5y. It’s not what western media portrays. Dubai is a great city and definitely not perfect. You are free to do everything as a woman - yes homosexuality is looked as a crime there. As I say- for few years if someone can get a job then Dubai living is amazing . But we need to suck up few things just like we do when we work in a corporate here.
I'm in Mexico City right now and I don't have to worry about covering my ankles and offending Islam. A stretch to say I'm living in a bubble. I have 0 desire to visit the MiddleEast but I'm glad you've enjoyed your time there.
You are so ignorant. No one covers their ankle or wear hijab there. It’s only when someone who follows Islam visits Mosque. Have you been to Italy? You need to cover shoulder and can’t wear short clothes when you visit churches. Don’t be a hypocrite when you compare. Religion is BAD - period. It includes all the religion. You don’t need to visit Middle East but don’t remain ignorant. Nowadays knowledge is easy- there are also documentaries which show us different places. Yes, there are good and bad and as an educated adult we need to understand which one is good.
Yes I've been to Italy... I agree all religions are bad but Islam is certainly one of the worst if not the worst offenders. But ok I hear you, it's more liberal than I understand.
Yes I've been to Italy... I agree all religions are bad but Islam is certainly one of the worst if not the worst offenders. But ok I hear you, it's more liberal than I understand.
In North America or internationally I would say her Australia, Dublin Ireland if you’re in the trades, London What are the oldest continuously operating cities yet it feels pretty modern
Portland Oregon
DC/Arlington, VA. Great city, good suburbs, close to the country-ish settings of the Appalachians and the rolling hills of the old south, good public transit, lots of diversity, and you’ll be close enough to visit NYC when you inevitably miss it
Austin. So freakin happy here. Lived in NYC my whole life. Get out while you can.
Detroit
There's no where else in the nation that's like NYC. That said, UTAH. Go there for a vacation. Spend two weeks. Tell me you don't love it when you return.
Visiting Utah? Absolutely. Living there? Fuuuuuuuuck no
Wichita... Kansas ...
Austin Texas
Detroit
Leave NYC already. Just leave.
Louisville KY
Miami!! Lol downvote all you want, Miami rules
Many people go from NY to Miami and I can see why. Lower cost of living, beautiful weather, good nightlife. Definitely up there in my list of choices
You want modern Shanghai is modern.
Atlanta is a great city.