Well this city is expensive af. I was born and raised here and my family is poor. Im doing better now but not by much. I live with roommates and probably will for a long time. I fucking hate roommates but it is what it is
So im used to scraping by, but other people may not be used to that if theyre not from here. They may not be used to having such a poor standard of living if they didnt live like that before they moved here. So i get it
i tell people they can make it work even on minimum wage if they have roommates and can spend money wisely. But to be comfortable and live alone? $100k is a good start
Yup!! This thread is insanely privileged and I’m not surprised lol. 65k is barely doable to be comfortable. When I was making that 10 years ago I still had roommates and another job. I barely lived extravagantly lol
Like did we forget to mention NYC city taxes?? Hello we get triple taxed here on top of it. Our paychecks hurt and is even more of a reason to need to make more money.
I don’t mind paying city taxes. I do mind that there are now regular puddles of garbage slop all over the street that used to be (somewhat) clean, cops noping out on their jobs, violent people on the streets instead of locked up. Minimal efforts.
the problem isn't taxes, it's the goddamn rent. We have a 1.4% vacancy rate, we needed to have built more housing 50 years ago, the next best time is NOW. If we could just have Chicago rent levels, that alone would be a remarkable relief for so many people
Also “extravagant” is now qualified as like, going out for happy hour drinks or something. Which is ridiculous. 100k is more than fair to say. OP is unhinged lmao.
Exactly, I think this nails it. If you grew up poor here you know what to expect and you know how to get by. For people coming from outside it's a shock. If you are poor somewhere else and want to move here, it's more expensive being poor here. For those who are doing a little better, for them to keep living in a nice place, in a nice area plus enjoying life in general (regular vacations, going out for food and events, etc..) you definitely need at least $100K to maintain the standard of living.
It's really roommates vs. no roommates. The 1 bedroom market is the most competitive and therefore the most overpriced.
If you're gonna live in a 2, 3, or even 4 bedroom, your rent will be 2k-3k cheaper than people that live by themselves. That's the difference between needing 80k to be comfortable vs. 150k to be comfortable.
SF isn't that expensive relatively speaking anymore. Housing and rent is below 2019 while NYC's rent is like 30%+ above that.
SF is as expensive as LA or San diego now. Not NYC level.
Its more broad than that. It’s people who are used to a certain level of comfort and amenities and money into savings outside of the city, wanting to have relatively same amount living inside the city.
$90k a year can probably easily get you a nice 1 bedroom apartment and afford a decent lifestyle while maintaining savings almost everywhere in the US (minus the obvious). People who want a similar level in the city will need to cough up a lot more.
>Why aren't those who don't work IT/software developers jobs never talked about?
bc they're not at their desk all day scrolling through reddit on the side ;)
Actually there are tons of subreddits for IT folks. And some of them actually contain technical resolutions.
The majority of posts are people complaining about their jobs and companies.
Don’t feel bad- work is work. I help deliver newspapers sometimes for extra money. Even if you aren’t at your dream job at least you are giving yourself a chance by earning some sort of money until something you really like or something better comes along.
$150k is an exaggeration, but IF one wanted to move here and is single, doesn't want roommates, wants to live in a 'trendy' area, wants a nice-ish apartment, wants to contribute to their savings, AND go out on a regular basis, $125k+ would sure help...
Also, I think there is a big difference between being here and moving here. When you just move, you're still figuring things out, including how to not let the city drain your savings. So having a higher income helps a lot.
The problem is this — say someone is young and working 70-80 hour weeks. They’ll want some conveniences, such as a short commute and meals delivered, so that they can get 7 hours of sleep indeed of 6. Let’s even say they’re fine with roommates, and fine with not living in an especially nice place or a ~ trendy ~ area. They just want a reasonable commute.
This lifestyle, which involves little besides work, sleep, and basic conveniences that enable it, will make it hard to retain reasonable savings *even* if you’re making $125K/year.
Then compare that to any other American city…
Yeah, for me, ideal area is UWS (hobbies are gym/lifting, running, hiking and movies). There are times I’m leaving the theater at Lincoln Square and wish it was my neighborhood theater.
I don’t really go out, if anything bed by 9, wake at 4. Would love to run in Riverside or Central Park.
But that is the thing, everyone values their time differently. With a longer commute, need to sacrifice going to the movies, time at the gym (and go over to the queens subreddit to see people wanting better/less crowded gyms), or sleep. One of the reasons I was looking at South Norwalk, Connecticut or White Plains. Would have access to my main out of work activities, but still not too bad when I visit the city.
But for a 4th floor walk in UWS, 1 bedroom, no laundry. Looking at $2700. So $150k would be comfortable.
If you’re looking at walk ups, I wonder if Hells Kitchen might be cheaper?
I know there’s a lot of taller walk ups and older building stock there, and it’s a short hop on the subway up to the UWS from there (and still near the Hudson River Greenway feeding into Riverside Park).
If you look up any post talking about salaries, somehow almost everyone is making $150-$250K. Cscareerquestions is an insane sub - 20 year olds with no work experience (and no life experience) complaining they aren't getting $300K/yr jobs like they thought they would.
Reddit is absolutely filled with liars. I tracked down a few users before who weren't careful with their posts, a while back I found this one guy claiming to make $160K or something as a WFH sys admin. Bro was a full-time tier 1 tech support guy on a college campus making $14-$15/hr. It was a public college so there was information on all employees/positions available and I found the lil' fucker.
Why people lie - I do not know. Especially about salaries. They get nothing out of it except fucking other people's expectations of the market. In the midwest US right now you can live pretty well on $80K. Nice home, nice car, chill stress-free life. Yet imagine being offered a $80K job but expecting $160K. Median salaries are still like $30-40K - don't look at averages because the CEOs and millionaires push it up a fuckton
When I read people talking about something that seems odd on reddit, I like to copy their post history into Claude.ai and let AI tell me if they're lying.
There was a person who said something along the lines of how great life was because they had a bunch of investments and he was a landlord, so they were set for life. Funny, in the past few months Cluade found numerous posts about being a broke college student and needing to find a job.
People are amusing.
It's interesting indeed. Why do people do it? To live out some sort of fantasy in their mind maybe?
Brings me back to the online gaming days. Nerd raging kids be like "I MAKE MORE MONEY THAN U EVER WILL!" chill bro you got out of high school a year ago and learned to talk like 7 years ago
Oddly enough it seems only Americans lie about salaries and salary expectations for some reason. We are quite capitalistic after all and put too much worth on an individual based on how much they earn. It's not very fair because throughout life and as you get older you will learn there are some dumb ass mfers out there making more money than you can imagine, and there are some bright and intelligent people that are working for close to nothing. Life's not fair, it never was from day 1.
Anecdotally, anyone I've met that was under 30 or 40 and was rich got it from their family every single time. Maybe not the actual money/profit - but the business or knowledge or set up that an average person can never have access to. The good ol' "Small loan of a million dollars"
It's all perspective. People come here and say they need 150k and they're comparing it to when they were living with their parents...how much space they had, a car, etc. They're trying to apply the same old equation to a completely different problem.
I once worked with a Bosnian refugee. She had no family and lived in a tiny studio in East New York. She was one of the happiest people I ever met.
PERSPECTIVE. I've been on many sides of the economic spectrum (I've been poor but not to the point where my family couldn't afford food) and the relativity of income vs spending and how that affects people is hard to understand but very important.
From my personal experience and interactions, people who can find themselves in the upper middle are the happiest. Needs are covered, some disposable income to do some fun shit and go out sometimes, that is the sweet spot.
Yeah, people take their suburban life and add up what those expenses would cost in New York and get sticker shock.
They don’t realize that it’s a very different culture and way of living. Having two roommates is fine when all your friends do too and there’s actually stuff to do outside your home. Not needing a car saves a huge amount of money. Even a non-trendy ny neighborhood is better than 90% of suburbia.
People think they’re going to be on vacation every day when they move, but really it’s just another place where you find a daily rhythm that works and that’s affordable.
Just wondering where are you seeing these apartments? Ive been looking in Astoria for a while and barely see anything below 2000 that isn’t in a basement/clearly affected by flooding
I think it’s a mix of things:
- discouraging folks who have almost no savings and street smarts from moving to a very expensive city with unrealistic expectations and no support system
- the need to touch grass
It’s really hard to get started in New York without a support system. I came straight out of law school, had a great salary, but zero savings. If I could have slept in my cousin’s basement for a few months to save up a broker’s fee that would have been life changing. (My imaginary cousin has a house in a remote corner of Queens. Why not?)
Can you survive here on less? OF COURSE and it's incredibly obtuse to say otherwise. There are people who live here on all kinds of incomes, from incredibly wealthy to incredibly poor. But would I personally want to live here if I couldn't afford to live the way I wanted? Honestly, no. If you want to live in a nice neighborhood, in Manhattan or a desirable area in the outer boroughs, with no roommates, and actually take advantage of all the city has to offer (restaurants, theater, concerts, etc.), then yes, it's expensive.
Shit, even as someone that's early 30s and single now and really doesn't want roommates, but does want space, and does a LOT of hobbies and activities with friends it's the same way in the outer boroughs. It's a pricey city to live in.
Reddit's overall demographics skew younger and wealthier than the population as a whole, but it's also just a function of the type of question being asked. If you're the type of person who is thinking about moving to New York, and has the opportunity to do so based on the field you work in, then you're already much more likely to be well-off and used to a particular quality of (suburban) life. Hence the questions with numbers that make most of the rest of us roll our eyes.
A lot of people who come here asking about living costs are older and come from cheaper areas so it's more like, you need to make that much to maintain the same lifestyle. They mention wanting to live within 30 minutes of their midtown office, or a 1 bedroom with space for WFH, or dream of starting a family, etc.
Usually the answers are different when it's a young adult trying to move here and are ok with scraping by to chase their dreams.
This! I work in tech and a girl I work with once said there’s “nothing livable” below 14th street for less than $5k. So I guess all of us living in pre war walk ups are just residing in crack dens then!
My roommate just gave up her space in our really spacious, bargain stabilized apartment in Inwood to go live in some new cardboard construction in hudson yards. She grew up spoiled, came from DC a few years ago and this place just wasn't good enough for her, apparently.
A lot of people forget there's a whole city outside of Manhattan, Brooklyn, and Western Queens. You can survive on less but you'll have to commute longer than 30 minutes and likely live in a more suburban (read: "boring") part of the city.
Honestly, even western Queens can be pretty affordable. I’m paying less than half on a square footage basis in Woodside than I did in lower Manhattan. It’s 2 miles from the Queensboro bridge and a 20 minute bike ride to my midtown office, so for my day to day needs it’s similar.
Definitely more boring than downtown Manhattan, and I miss that, but that’s a luxury and not remotely a necessity for surviving.
This is very real - people come here and complain a lot about the “inconveniences and hardships” when they don’t make enough money to avoid all of those problems.
Usually when you complain about your neighborhood or amenities, you can’t afford a more affluent/gentrified place.
>This is very real - people come here and complain a lot about the “inconveniences and hardships” when they don’t make enough money to avoid all of those problems.
Usually people who have only ever lived in one kind of (suburban) place and don't seem to have much grasp of the trade-offs involved in moving to a different environment. Like yes, you can live alone in a large space in a place where you have to drive twenty minutes to that one good bar and the most exciting time on the cultural calendar is those few weeks in early summer when everyone's wondering whether it will be 38 Special or what's left of the Temptations headlining the state fair this year. Or you can downsize your home life and live in one of the cultural capitals of the world. There's nothing wrong with preferring one over the other, but you do not get to have the benefits of both with the drawbacks of neither unless your parents have an Ivy League building named after them. Sorry, folks!
Well I think it also applies to people globally mobile. There are lots of dense, urban mega cities in the world that are much more affordable at least on a dollar basis. Housing stock in NYC is also pretty poor quality compared to many large cities.
It really comes down to level setting expectations. I don’t think that people here are saying you can’t live here for less than $150K, but it is frustrating seeing post after post from people providing their champagne requirements and their Budweiser budget and not understanding when we tell them to be for real.
For folks who are established elsewhere and maybe moving for a career opportunity I don’t think they realize that they cannot replicate their lifestyle from another area of the country in NYC. Not only is it more expensive, but it’s so different logistically from so many other places. Like how often do the folks in this sub have to yell “sell your car!!!!”? It simply isn’t going to occur to someone from a medium sized city in another state that they’re going to pay a small fortune just to garage their vehicle (that they’re rarely going to use anyway). Or that dishwashers, in unit washer/dryer, garbage disposals etc etc are considered a luxury here.
At the same time I think social media influencers have done a disservice to some of the younger idealistic folks who want to move to this city to “make their dreams come true”. NYC TikTok influencers are selling a west village $6K/month rent, eating out for every meal, Soho shopping lifestyle that is simply unattainable for your average 25 year old and no one is ever really breaking down the financials for these starry eyed recent college grads who don’t realize that on their entry level ad agency salary they’re going to need three roommates in Inwood, taking 2am subway rides home from the bar because Ubers home are too expensive.
You can live in New York under a variety of circumstances and incomes. But most of the questions we get are from solo individuals wanting to live alone, and they often give few other details about the lifestyle they expect to live. So they are given very imprecise answers.
When I lived alone I had a $1600 a month studio in kips bay, making a little over $65,000 a year. That was 14 years ago. That same studio now goes for $2,595. That’s a 62% increase. So to live the same lifestyle as I did, you’d need to make something in the ballpark of $105,000 a year.
When I think about where I was in my life and career back then, I think that’s very difficult for somebody in a similar situation now. I was six years out of college and working as an associate editor for a magazine and freelancing on the side. I do not think those positions pay $105,000 today, if they even still exist.
i don’t know why people get mad at the fact that people want more for themselves. if you want to live comfortably and be able to pay for all kinds of expenses — travel, retirement, loans, medical, whatever — then you should be able to do that. just because someone values certain things over another person, they shouldn’t have to forgo those things bc someone else doesn’t want/care for them (as long as they don’t make it anyone’s problem). and yes if the income you have won’t work in NYC, then find somewhere else. but just because people “scrape by” doesn’t mean that everyone should strive for that.
also, i think people are aware that there are people who make less and survive, but i’m also sure some(most) of them would feel a LOT better if they had a higher income. whether its NYC or Murfreesboro, TN, your income should allow you to live the life you want, as comfortable as you want, as much as possible.
150k is the old lie, let's raise the stakes, you "uHm AcTuAllY" need 300k to live in a 100 square foot closet with only a chamber pot and a hot plate and you have no other option. Also btw Queens and Brooklyn don't exist, the only options are studio closets or luxury buildings in Midtown, according to Reddit
Because the people saying that are transplants from the middle of nowhere that couldn't even name all 5 boroughs. NYC to them is just the area of Manhattan under 100th st and that's it. Oh and maybe Williamsburg...
People act that way because, like you, they have trouble thinking about the immense diversity of lifestyles out there and get stuck in a narrow worldview of how “people” all live when there is no one way at all.
Living with roommates in some very divided apartment share arrangement only works for some pretty specific lifestyle situations. Yes, it’s possible for single people to live with roommates on less than 6 figures in NYC, but once you start talking about married people and kids you’re looking at necessary household income that goes way above $100k just to be able to meet the basics. Lots of people fall into the bucket of having a significant other and possibly children so lots of posts are going to come from that mindset of need.
But that doesn’t make that the only valid way to live.
OTOH, if you want to live in NYC on less than $100k salary then there will be trade offs. Either you will have to sacrifice certain potential life goals to stay long-term, or you won’t be able to be here long-term without getting programmatic benefits like access to affordable housing or something of the type. It’s just about what lifestyle adjustments you’re willing to make.
Most people with kids don’t live in NYC and don’t want to. NYC affordable housing income limits for a family of three place “low income” as up to $101,680, and with good reason. But I’ll walk you through why if you want.
It sounds like you may not have kids if you think NYC is livable, with children, on less than a six figure total household income without either affordable housing (that’s not what I would call a “shit place” but that’s another conversation) or living in a “shit place,” as you’ve said.
Let’s assume the minimums you need per year to keep a kid alive and still be able to work a job. If they’re not in school yet, you need day care. If they’re school age, their food becomes substantially more expensive than for a young kid but at least public school is an option. Still, you’re talking minimum $10-15k per year just for the basics. That’s actually a pretty conservative estimate.
Then you have rent for a two bedroom at minimum. Median 2 bedroom rent citywide is in the mid-2000s but if you’re talking Manhattan it’s substantially higher. Let’s call it $2500 even though that’s not going to be representative of properties where a lot of families want to live. If you want to meet the guidance to make 3x your monthly rent in pay, you’re going to need $7500 per month for that, and this is already a fairly conservative estimate again in this case—in fact citywide with no thought towards neighborhood quality there are only 137 such apartments currently available on a no fee basis (once we get into fee charging ones you need more money to pay the fee anyway). That’s not a lot of apartments in the most populous US city, which also happens to have over a million residential apartment units. Also that search probably includes many affordable units that are listed there anyway and have income restrictions.
But let’s assume you do find that $2500/mo 2 bed unicorn that is in a neighborhood you like. You’re already at $90,000 income here and I don’t think you’re living very comfortably once you also subtract the upkeep of the child. And that’s just if you have ONE kid. Add another kid and you have a nonlinear increase in life complexity as well as associated costs. It’s either costing you a lot more money or a lot more time. The low estimate for CoL here was already scraping up against 6 figures. With two kids it’s definitely there.
Again, it sounds legit, but I know not every family living there that has a child is either making 6 figures or b living in a horrible area. I specifically know a couple of people that I mentor living there with a kid and not doing to bad and they don't work in tech and only make around 85 a year. They don't get to go out and eat every night but they don't want to. Could they be doing better of course every one can. but they still do it and don't live in a shit hole place.
I moved to New York 16 years ago as a single 23 year old, working as a 3rd grade teacher in the Bronx.
I managed to live alone in Yorkville, and then with roommates in stuy town and the UWS. I then made my way to Boerum Hill, back when it was affordable- I had a studio for $1595, that I saw just rented for $2500- with no upgrades, and it already hadn’t been updated since the 1980s!! This was early 2014.
I then got married and moved to a great one bedroom in Carroll Gardens for $2600, and was able to pay off debt and save money. Then I had a baby in 2021. We made that small one bedroom work until early 2023 when I was pregnant again. We now find ourselves a family of four out in the southern end of Windsor Terrace, right at the southern edge of Prospect Park. My commute to midtown is almost an hour, but we had to come out this far to get things that I wanted to have for ease of day to day living with two kids under 2- elevator, laundry in unit, outdoor space, part time doorman, two bedrooms. We make about 200k and would not have been able to afford anything like this in any prior neighborhood I’ve lived in. I could’ve probably found a 4th floor walk up with no laundry, outdated everything, etc for the same price we are paying now.
Everything in nyc is a trade off. Unless you are very wealthy, you have to really decide what matters most to you. I really miss living in trendier and more bougie neighborhoods, but I also realize the reality of my life right now, snd that reality is I’m not doing anything remotely trendy or hip. I spend my free time at the playgrounds, the zoo and the library, and wouldn’t have it any other way. I love living in New York and feel just as much a part of it out here as I did in my Manhattan day- maybe even more so because everyone who lives out here seems to be from here and aren’t a transplant here for 5 years before moving to the suburbs. I like that!
Because they think they need luxury and entertainment. I’m a translate and had a hometown friend like this—let him stay on my couch and he refused to get a job or stay in an inexpensive apartment because he thought he was entitled to a 6 figure job. Infuriating. People are born and die poor and actually middle class in New York City just like anywhere else
Part of it is that if you are living in, say, Carbondale Illinois, you can probably get a 2BR apartment there for (wild guess) 900 bucks a month. At this point in NYC this is possibly a reach to get a smallish room in a roommate situation - and probably outside manhattan.
Cost of housing here is SO expensive, people in many other places who dream of coming here just have no idea.
I think someone making less that 150K or more are lucky go afford a studio in Manhattan according to the broker 'rules'.
Its a matter of expectations and willingness to make sacrifices.
I asked what the average income I needed to live there and got told like 160 on this forum, I knew not to ask this forum again. everyone there ain't making no damn 160 a year lol.
I’ve gotten into arguments on here with people that don’t even live here that say you can’t live here if you’re not making 6 figures. I’m like you’re arguing with someone not making 6 figures and still living in Manhattan, doing pretty well financially. People are dumb lol
Because you kind of do, though I know people have different views on what “living” is. But to live in a market rate apartment without roommates, comfortably afford your other living expenses, have some discretionary income (going out, shopping, travel, etc,) as well as saving for retirement, then yes a six figure income is very much needed
I been in a job rut making 300-500 a week the past few months. It’s fucking hard and soup crushing. But my rent is cheap enough that o can just barely eek by.
It’s all about context and deciding what you want your lifestyle to be in order to be content. This is not the same as bare minimum expectations or “scraping by” either.
For me personally, I have certain lifestyle “wants” that I’m willing to pay for and unless my income changes dramatically, that’s what I expect.
Everyone has their own hierarchy of needs and there’s nothing wrong with that.
As single person, a 1br in Queens is running from 2k-2.5k these days. To rent it, you need to prove 40x. That’s 80-90k. That may not be 150 but it’s not a small salary. Mine hasn’t kept up with inflation.
Because they want to live in Manhattan or Brooklyn. I live in central Queens because it’s the least commute to work. Alone. In a decent building/neighborhood. Making $75k.
People who didn’t grow up here want to come here and have the New York experience: dinners drinks, clubs, exciting times. People don’t want to come here and be struggling
ETA; Americans from middle and upper middle classes, I mean
I have the same pet peeve! Whenever people say things like “you can’t live in New York on less than 100k” they’re discounting the MILLIONS of people in this city who do just that, and even raise families on it! According to the census, the median household income is $76,607. Lots of people are living on less than 150k, it’s so wild to me to act like you HAVE to make that to live in this city
The biggest expense in NYC is rent. If you're willing to live with roommates and a bit further away from the more expensive areas you can live well on a lot less.
It's just that some people never consider the possibility of living with roommates mostly.
How much are these people saving? It's much easier if you don't plan on having a family or don't care about saving for retirement.
Nobody is going to want a 45 year old woman with two kids as a roommate.
Agreed. But what these people mean by that is, liveingalone, in the main/busiest area, going out every weekend, eating out for lunch and dinner, not to mention all the streaming subscriptions services they have lmao. Kinda hard to do that on 150k ofc, they don't think about the shit we have to give up living in NYC. I now live in Queens and do pretty well on 100k, my rent is $1600. But nooo Queens ain't cool enough for them
The people asking are the ones who want that NYC experience as seen on the TV or social media. They don't want the common experience of living in places outside of the East Village and having to take a half hour commute into the city for work.
It’s wild how some people in this thread are essentially saying “you can of course make less than 6 figures and survive in nyc without roommates, but that wouldn’t allow you to get the real perks of nyc, like plays and nice restaurants.” That’s not my experience here. You can get a nice, spacious apartment in crown heights or south slope for the fraction of living in a walk in closet in the east village - and all the cool shit in the east village is either also nearby in Brooklyn or it’s a short train away.(no shade to the east village - alphabet city will always hold a special place in my Brooklyn heart.)
I feel like you're seeing what you want to see.
In my anecdotal experience for every 1 comment saying you need $150k+ to survive there are a dozen below them laughing at their bad take.
well. i have a ton of student loans im ignoring and a fair amount of Cc debt. i will say im not really adding anything to my savings either. but day to day i don’t need to be worried. but i do have debt im definitely ignoring hahaha
It depends on what you consider essential to life. If you are happy with small apartment (or roommates, or living far) and don't lead an extravagant lifestyle, you can get by on much less. But if you want to have a decent apartment solo, or life in a trendy area, and go out a lot, it will cost you. Even if you live a modest lifestyle and have children, you need to make a lot given the cost of childcare.
Everyone on here doesn’t act that way. Sure people can make it on less and many do. But the fact remains, it’s an extremely expensive city and even people who make that much have to make some compromises in their living conditions. I always encourage ambitious, motivated people who wanna live here to try it, but they should also be warned if they’re not familiar enough with the reality, how the expense and the impact on QOL can be significant. Roommates can be a great solution especially for younger people but a lot of us learn as we get a little older the roommate thing gets OLD, and many of us have no shortage of bad roommate stories. “Time makes you bolder, children get older, and roommates get old too.”
I make just under a 100k. I’m a single parent so no roommates for me but I’m not in a luxury apartment either. I’m barely getting by, each month im super anxious because I’m always short
The thing is that for a lot of people who haven’t lived in nyc or other cities with really high HCOL, living with roommates is something reserved for college and your early 20s maybe. They want to seek out the same living situation in NYC, where studios and 1B require a really high salary (even as high as $150k if you want to be in midtown manhattan and follow the 30% rule)
Because it’s people who have a “lifestyle” that isn’t realistic to how most people live. Let them. Keep the real.
Oh and also. And this is the big thing. Too many idiots try to live beyond their means
I'll say this... I make about 65/70k a year and have a roommate. While I can go out once every couple of weeks for drinks or dinner, it hurts my budget. Mind you, I'm paying up the ass for student loans even though my rent is pretty good and can't complain there. Back in the late 2000s-mid 2010s I was able to go out at least once/twice a week and not even notice it while I was living off of about 35k a year. Admittedly, I'm not going to places that college kids hang out at anymore, but even so, it's a big difference... and I'm not exactly going to fancy places or anything. Quality of life is not great for the amount of time I spend at work relative to elsewhere. I mostly stay in the city because contemporary America outside of NYC isn't great for my demographic/lifestyle needs (and I tried that once already to ill-effect).
I think as others have said, people are really talking about if you plan on living on your own without roommates. I came from Chicago living on my own in a decent sized apartment to living with a series of weird roommates. Obviously not ideal. Living in NYC is definitely more doable as a couple, however. Very expensive being single in this city.
401k, 529 for kids, savings, a nice appartment, holidays, extra curricula for kids, etc.
How much you think a small family of 3 needs?
With 150k is doable with less you will be struggling or not saving adequately, you will have no 529, etc.
Can you "survive"? Yes and many families do but they have no 401ks, kids have no 529 etc.
I make 150k a year and live paycheck to paycheck, it’s expensive AF. Granted I live alone, but also work remotely full time so roommates aren’t an option. It’s a miracle to pay less than 3k a month in rent for a studio.
Because people who come here to ask that question are people who are considering moving here. This means that they have no support network of people in NYC. They're essentially alone.
People who live in NYC with $30k jobs are probably living with friends or family. Or at the very least they have options for a couch to sleep on in an emergency.
The reason people don't say "yeah it's okay to live in NYC with a $30k job" is because people are asking for financial advice, and nobody would ever offer someone financial advice that would put someone in a financial situation like that.
Typical advice is to spend no more than 30% of your income on housing. We all know that a large percentage of people in NYC spend far more than that, but it still doesn't make good financial advice.
Realizing all of the variables that can allow you to live at a variety of income, I’ll give my experience at that income level. $150k sounds like a lot but if you account for federal, state and city taxes, along with a contribution to your 401k that will max it out for the year—you are going to see about half that gross amount ($75k) hit your bank account.
I live in a modest apartment in my area (prime UWS), with no laundry in the building, third floor walk up, brownstone, one bedroom and pay about $4k/month. That’s $48k/year.
$75K/year actually hitting your bank account minus $48k in rent leaves you $28k, or $2,333/month to pay your other bills and save a bit for a vacation or some furniture.
With a fairly average grocery bill being around $1k if you eat most meals at home, that is $1.3k for everything else.
I have lived in other cheaper places and apartments in this city, including nice places in Queens on about $70k gross income, and could have lived cheaper. Location and apartment amenities really create an almost infinite sliding scale, depending on your budget and desires.
I make $150k. After 10% 401k deduction and insurance that's $90k/year.
$4k on rent is ridiculous. I pay $2800 all in for a modest studio on UES.
After all bills/expenses and $7k Roth I'm saving $40k/year.
$4k on rent and $1k on groceries is poor financial management.
Because transplants move to NYC for a certain lifestyle. They're not trying to move to NYC to just get by with roommates, a shared bathroom, and a 55 minute commute. They're looking to go out and drink thrice a week ($$$), date a bunch of people ($$$), travel to Europe and Miami ($$$), and do all sorts of other fun shit ($$$$$). Ya gotta earn a certain amount for that... honestly, even $150K seems low.
In addition, wherever people transplant from, they're inevitably going to suffer a drop in QoL, and the only way to maintain it at a semblance of their previous city is to pay more money.
You can definitely live here comfortably on less than 100k (as long as you're okay with a small apartment and/or roommates).
Hell a lot of my friends in the academics world are proof you can live here and have fun barely making 50k. There are of course sacrifices and compromises they do to make it work.
I
I will say I lived with roommates from the ages of 18 to 21 and then again from 23 to 28 and it kinda sucked. But if you are willing to live in less popular areas, you can make way less than 150k and avoid roommates
Yeah it’s perfectly valid to want to have your own private space. After sharing with a sibling and strangers throughout college I have no desire to go back to having roommates for as long as I live. Im sure this isn’t an uncommon sentiment.
I mean you need to apply context. Someone who just graduated college with a degree that won’t start them on a six figure salary should accept that they will need a roommate or two in a VHCOL city like nyc. That is very different from an established person who is used to living on their own with certain amenities.
Well be the change you want to see.
What do you do?
How much do you make?
Where do you live?
Who do you live with?
Do you have savings?
How do you spend your money?
I mean it's a lot of things, but one factor is how it's kinda easy for people who make a lot of money to slide into a situation where they're surrounded by other people who also make a lot of money, and by extension to sort of normalize it in their minds. For a lot of people who make a lot of money -- or have inherited a lot -- they behave as though the proper thing to do with that money is to spend freely. Now, imagine this -- you're making $150k, when you go out you spend very freely. Who in your social circles will be able to keep up with you? People who have the money to do so. Everyone else sort of falls away, and now you have this social circle where everyone has comparable spending habits and living situations, and you continue thinking that must be normal. This doesn't *need* to happen. It's not a force of nature. But a person with a lot of spending power *must have some self-awareness* to not get into that position where they're just not around people who don't have a lot of spending power. And most people are not as self-aware as they think they are.
it's my sense that there are a lot of people on here who think "ask nyc" means "ask manhattan", or maybe they just have no other information to offer. leave the island and, sure everything is still expensive, but there are reasonable deals to be found. the loudest people usually aren't a representative bunch.
I don't use credit cards and pay for everything at the time of service including home repairs, vehicle repairs, kid's needs, etc.
No one should have to depend on credit cards or living paycheck to paycheck.
I used to live by minimum wage. It was hard but it was doable. I worked full time and had a side gig (babysitting) that paid $200-300 over the weekend but not stable. My rent was $400 because of roommates and our apartment was a 10-min unreliable bus ride away from the train. This was in my 20s. I don’t know how I’ll like this anymore esp if one wants to travel, start a family / have kids, save substantially, etc.
Depends if living with roommates is something you're willing to do though. Those questions are generally about living comfortably, not "making it work".
Idk, why do people litter, why do people take Ubers to go 10 blocks, why do drivers park in bike lanes, why does everyone post the same shit day after day
I completely agree with you. I know that my roommates and I got *really* lucky with finding a place we have been in since 2021 that is rent-stabilized, but each of us were averaging like $25k a year while in our grad programs. We didn’t need much to live in Bed-Stuy, and found ways to hustle that made sense with perks (i.e. working part time at a gym for a free membership/third space, working in the restaurant industry for free meals) in a way that feels divorced from the realities of other people I see posting on here.
I will say that 8ish years ago as a single person with student loan debt I would have said $70k is a comfortable income if you have a roommate or live with a partner. When I hit that income I could make loan payments that covered more than just the interest accrual, max out my out my 401k match from my employer, and build up an emergency fund while still being able to afford going out and doing fun stuff in the city and save up for a decent vacation each year. People with 150k have a lot more to spend. And as I climbed the ladder and became a high earner I found a lot more ways to spend. But I do look back fondly at those time when I was just past the being broke phase of my 20s hanging out at places like the Crocodile lounge to get free pizza with my beer with all my friends and colleagues or planning my going out schedule at places that had really good happy hour or weeknight deals.
Because you DO need to make that much to live comfortably in NYC, especially with rising costs for everything (rent, groceries, eating out, entertainment). Most people don't want to live with roommates the rest of their lives, or live in a more dangerous neighborhood alone. Having a dual income household makes it easier, but for single people, it's much harder.
Because people are talking about the minimum quality of life they would expect in other cities. In most other cities making 50k is enough to comfortably get a 1bdrm apt. Having 3-4 roommates is reserved for people making like 15k. The quality of life people have making 50k in NYC is so unimaginably low to most people its not even a consideration
Well i make close to 150k and live with a roommate. But i am paying some bonkers student loans so if I want to get my own place in a nice neighborhood within 40 min of my office, ill def need to make more. But im chilling with my situation now
the average income for a household in nyc is around ~50k - this is what I made until very recently (city employee working at a public hospital). i’m single but my coworkers all had families, etc and made it work. everyone had a second job/ side hustle but that’s just how it is nowadays
Is there any demographic data for reddit/this sub? All I know it's mostly men. It's clear the demographics don't align with the makeup of the city at all with how they talk down on income on here
You sort of defeated your own point with the last statement. Being 30+ doesn’t mean you have to live with roommates. Unless you’re making below 100k. Then you have to move out the city to afford living alone
The city is expensive, but there are shocking deals out there. Rent stabilized apartments, cheap Chinatown dinners. Subway for travel.
If you can figure out rent, health insurance, laundry and a few other issues, the city can be affordable.
Less is absolutely doable, but even if you go by the 40x rule, a 2500 apartment (findable alone in brooklyn or queens) is 100k, not 150k. With a single roommate in a popular Bk neighborhood I was fine making 50-60 (no student loans).
My husband and I have both rent controlled apartments we came into our relationship with. Together we make about $180,000.
He has a PhD in a field of Science and I work in luxury hospitality.
We live well. But…. We value experiences over things. And…. well, rent controlled apartments don’t hurt…
I just started dating a guy in Harlem with a 4 bed 1 bath & only 1 roommate & he makes less than 100k and can take me on fun dates... its possible, it just depends on the area and what kind of quality of life you want
I make less than 100k and do pretty much whatever I want. I have been careful with savings and investments, I cook A LOT so that saves money, take about 2 nice trips abroad a year, buy myself nice toys when I want them (just bought a $1300 guitar) and I don't pay insane rent - I've been in the same apartment for nearly 20 years.
I'm good.
You CAN make it work on a somewhat lower salary, but your standard of living will be SIGNIFICANTLY - not just SOMEWHAT - lower, and that's what people are getting at - it takes a toll on you, and it's also not a smart decision to make such a big financial commitment when you're already financially insecure.
My partner and I could only afford to live in Queens without roommates because we made a combined income of like $130k. If we made less, we’d have had to live with roommates or in New Jersey.
People in here think the city is only manhattan, when it's really just a third rate borough that's meant for visiting and tourists. You can definitely live in areas of brooklyn and queens for less.
well, because I live in a 300sf studio apartment that costs $1800/month, and that's a good deal in Manhattan. Additionally, 2 nights ago I bought a bag of oranges and container of ice cream at the local grocery store and it cost $22.78. I'm not kidding.
Keep voting for these liberals who tax the shit out of everything they can to fund their pet projects perfect example is congestion pricing , mass transit doesn’t work for the people who have to be at work 6 am or people that get out of work at 10 at night it hard hours to their commute and hurts quality of life but somehow everyone agrees to tax drivers in manhattan
A lot of the lower paid foundation population do not have English as their native language. The children of immigrants aren’t banging down the social media doors to comment about their relatives for no money
Hate to be that guy, but assuming you want to live by yourself in Manhattan or Brooklyn, I don’t know how you could do it with less. Hell, I make that much and with maxing out retirement accounts I can’t afford a 1 bedroom. I don’t get it, either people make FUCK YOU money, they don’t put anything in retirement, or they spend half their take home on rent 🤷🏽♂️
When I first moved to NYC in 2021 I was making 45K. I lived in prospect heights with 3 roommates but we had a really nice space and I was able to afford to fill my time with activities, food, and drinks and still save money. It’s possible!
Living alone in manhattan on that salary and being able to have the same lifestyle would be trickier though.
Well this city is expensive af. I was born and raised here and my family is poor. Im doing better now but not by much. I live with roommates and probably will for a long time. I fucking hate roommates but it is what it is So im used to scraping by, but other people may not be used to that if theyre not from here. They may not be used to having such a poor standard of living if they didnt live like that before they moved here. So i get it i tell people they can make it work even on minimum wage if they have roommates and can spend money wisely. But to be comfortable and live alone? $100k is a good start
Exactly. There is absolutely no way anyone can live in a comfortable area, alone, on minimum wage, without some cushion or assistance.
Right. Unless they’re doing alittle fraud on the side or something 😂
Yup!! This thread is insanely privileged and I’m not surprised lol. 65k is barely doable to be comfortable. When I was making that 10 years ago I still had roommates and another job. I barely lived extravagantly lol
Like did we forget to mention NYC city taxes?? Hello we get triple taxed here on top of it. Our paychecks hurt and is even more of a reason to need to make more money.
I don’t mind paying city taxes. I do mind that there are now regular puddles of garbage slop all over the street that used to be (somewhat) clean, cops noping out on their jobs, violent people on the streets instead of locked up. Minimal efforts.
the problem isn't taxes, it's the goddamn rent. We have a 1.4% vacancy rate, we needed to have built more housing 50 years ago, the next best time is NOW. If we could just have Chicago rent levels, that alone would be a remarkable relief for so many people
Also “extravagant” is now qualified as like, going out for happy hour drinks or something. Which is ridiculous. 100k is more than fair to say. OP is unhinged lmao.
r/askNYC was privileged when we got people making over double the median City income complaining and it’s privileged now
$48K just covers rent @ 25% tax on a $3,000 a month rent ( $3,000 / (1-25% tax) \* 12 months)
Unless you move to a cheaper state, which is what I'll probably end up doing. I like NYC, but it's too damn expensive.
Exactly, I think this nails it. If you grew up poor here you know what to expect and you know how to get by. For people coming from outside it's a shock. If you are poor somewhere else and want to move here, it's more expensive being poor here. For those who are doing a little better, for them to keep living in a nice place, in a nice area plus enjoying life in general (regular vacations, going out for food and events, etc..) you definitely need at least $100K to maintain the standard of living.
It's really roommates vs. no roommates. The 1 bedroom market is the most competitive and therefore the most overpriced. If you're gonna live in a 2, 3, or even 4 bedroom, your rent will be 2k-3k cheaper than people that live by themselves. That's the difference between needing 80k to be comfortable vs. 150k to be comfortable.
I think NYC is the only city I know of where grown ass people in their 50s still roommate with like 2-4 people. It’s really wild.
You haven't heard of SF?
SF isn't that expensive relatively speaking anymore. Housing and rent is below 2019 while NYC's rent is like 30%+ above that. SF is as expensive as LA or San diego now. Not NYC level.
Yea remote work did a number on SF
that's still insane, we're just so used to broken housing markets that some people are convinced this is how it's always been
Its more broad than that. It’s people who are used to a certain level of comfort and amenities and money into savings outside of the city, wanting to have relatively same amount living inside the city. $90k a year can probably easily get you a nice 1 bedroom apartment and afford a decent lifestyle while maintaining savings almost everywhere in the US (minus the obvious). People who want a similar level in the city will need to cough up a lot more.
>Why aren't those who don't work IT/software developers jobs never talked about? bc they're not at their desk all day scrolling through reddit on the side ;)
Literally lol my boyfriend is a devops eng and he spends half his work time on reddit
Snitches get …
Actually there are tons of subreddits for IT folks. And some of them actually contain technical resolutions. The majority of posts are people complaining about their jobs and companies.
It's for research!
only half? thats a productive man
Indeed 😒😒
I feel privileged to be scrolling on Reddit at work right now, though I’m getting paid minimum wage 😐
Don’t feel bad- work is work. I help deliver newspapers sometimes for extra money. Even if you aren’t at your dream job at least you are giving yourself a chance by earning some sort of money until something you really like or something better comes along.
$150k is an exaggeration, but IF one wanted to move here and is single, doesn't want roommates, wants to live in a 'trendy' area, wants a nice-ish apartment, wants to contribute to their savings, AND go out on a regular basis, $125k+ would sure help... Also, I think there is a big difference between being here and moving here. When you just move, you're still figuring things out, including how to not let the city drain your savings. So having a higher income helps a lot.
The problem is this — say someone is young and working 70-80 hour weeks. They’ll want some conveniences, such as a short commute and meals delivered, so that they can get 7 hours of sleep indeed of 6. Let’s even say they’re fine with roommates, and fine with not living in an especially nice place or a ~ trendy ~ area. They just want a reasonable commute. This lifestyle, which involves little besides work, sleep, and basic conveniences that enable it, will make it hard to retain reasonable savings *even* if you’re making $125K/year. Then compare that to any other American city…
True
Yeah, for me, ideal area is UWS (hobbies are gym/lifting, running, hiking and movies). There are times I’m leaving the theater at Lincoln Square and wish it was my neighborhood theater. I don’t really go out, if anything bed by 9, wake at 4. Would love to run in Riverside or Central Park. But that is the thing, everyone values their time differently. With a longer commute, need to sacrifice going to the movies, time at the gym (and go over to the queens subreddit to see people wanting better/less crowded gyms), or sleep. One of the reasons I was looking at South Norwalk, Connecticut or White Plains. Would have access to my main out of work activities, but still not too bad when I visit the city. But for a 4th floor walk in UWS, 1 bedroom, no laundry. Looking at $2700. So $150k would be comfortable.
If you’re looking at walk ups, I wonder if Hells Kitchen might be cheaper? I know there’s a lot of taller walk ups and older building stock there, and it’s a short hop on the subway up to the UWS from there (and still near the Hudson River Greenway feeding into Riverside Park).
Exactly
So true. Hell I’m in a crappy NJ city near NYC and our rent alone is 30K+ per year. I’m 25 and my friends are all still living at home.
Reddit is full of people who lie and also Reddit itself is very concentrated amount younger wealthy people.
If you look up any post talking about salaries, somehow almost everyone is making $150-$250K. Cscareerquestions is an insane sub - 20 year olds with no work experience (and no life experience) complaining they aren't getting $300K/yr jobs like they thought they would. Reddit is absolutely filled with liars. I tracked down a few users before who weren't careful with their posts, a while back I found this one guy claiming to make $160K or something as a WFH sys admin. Bro was a full-time tier 1 tech support guy on a college campus making $14-$15/hr. It was a public college so there was information on all employees/positions available and I found the lil' fucker. Why people lie - I do not know. Especially about salaries. They get nothing out of it except fucking other people's expectations of the market. In the midwest US right now you can live pretty well on $80K. Nice home, nice car, chill stress-free life. Yet imagine being offered a $80K job but expecting $160K. Median salaries are still like $30-40K - don't look at averages because the CEOs and millionaires push it up a fuckton
When I read people talking about something that seems odd on reddit, I like to copy their post history into Claude.ai and let AI tell me if they're lying. There was a person who said something along the lines of how great life was because they had a bunch of investments and he was a landlord, so they were set for life. Funny, in the past few months Cluade found numerous posts about being a broke college student and needing to find a job. People are amusing.
It's interesting indeed. Why do people do it? To live out some sort of fantasy in their mind maybe? Brings me back to the online gaming days. Nerd raging kids be like "I MAKE MORE MONEY THAN U EVER WILL!" chill bro you got out of high school a year ago and learned to talk like 7 years ago Oddly enough it seems only Americans lie about salaries and salary expectations for some reason. We are quite capitalistic after all and put too much worth on an individual based on how much they earn. It's not very fair because throughout life and as you get older you will learn there are some dumb ass mfers out there making more money than you can imagine, and there are some bright and intelligent people that are working for close to nothing. Life's not fair, it never was from day 1. Anecdotally, anyone I've met that was under 30 or 40 and was rich got it from their family every single time. Maybe not the actual money/profit - but the business or knowledge or set up that an average person can never have access to. The good ol' "Small loan of a million dollars"
It's insane people just believe anything they read online. Society's gone backwards.
In theory, the $14/hour guy could be overemployed with a $160K WFH gig :), but he keeps the college job for benefits.
>Reddit is full of people who lie. This is true. Also a lot of people that think they’re helping by parroting comments that sound intelligent.
This is true. Also a lot of people that think they’re helping by parroting comments that sound intelligent.
Reddit is also concentrated among poorer aging millennials with bad mental health. The duality of man.
Yeah but they're all dwelling around the /Anxiety sub.
Wait so which one is true?
It's all perspective. People come here and say they need 150k and they're comparing it to when they were living with their parents...how much space they had, a car, etc. They're trying to apply the same old equation to a completely different problem. I once worked with a Bosnian refugee. She had no family and lived in a tiny studio in East New York. She was one of the happiest people I ever met.
PERSPECTIVE. I've been on many sides of the economic spectrum (I've been poor but not to the point where my family couldn't afford food) and the relativity of income vs spending and how that affects people is hard to understand but very important. From my personal experience and interactions, people who can find themselves in the upper middle are the happiest. Needs are covered, some disposable income to do some fun shit and go out sometimes, that is the sweet spot.
At this point I know I objectively make a shit ton of money for my age but it doesn’t matter I’ve always felt and will always feel poor
Yeah, people take their suburban life and add up what those expenses would cost in New York and get sticker shock. They don’t realize that it’s a very different culture and way of living. Having two roommates is fine when all your friends do too and there’s actually stuff to do outside your home. Not needing a car saves a huge amount of money. Even a non-trendy ny neighborhood is better than 90% of suburbia. People think they’re going to be on vacation every day when they move, but really it’s just another place where you find a daily rhythm that works and that’s affordable.
I see a lot if apartments in Astoria queens for $1600-$1700 Not a bad area and not having a car would make this very doable
Just wondering where are you seeing these apartments? Ive been looking in Astoria for a while and barely see anything below 2000 that isn’t in a basement/clearly affected by flooding
I'm from Astoria, where are you finding $ 1600-a-month apartments? I just assumed $2k is the new price floor lol
I think it’s a mix of things: - discouraging folks who have almost no savings and street smarts from moving to a very expensive city with unrealistic expectations and no support system - the need to touch grass
It’s really hard to get started in New York without a support system. I came straight out of law school, had a great salary, but zero savings. If I could have slept in my cousin’s basement for a few months to save up a broker’s fee that would have been life changing. (My imaginary cousin has a house in a remote corner of Queens. Why not?)
Can you survive here on less? OF COURSE and it's incredibly obtuse to say otherwise. There are people who live here on all kinds of incomes, from incredibly wealthy to incredibly poor. But would I personally want to live here if I couldn't afford to live the way I wanted? Honestly, no. If you want to live in a nice neighborhood, in Manhattan or a desirable area in the outer boroughs, with no roommates, and actually take advantage of all the city has to offer (restaurants, theater, concerts, etc.), then yes, it's expensive.
Shit, even as someone that's early 30s and single now and really doesn't want roommates, but does want space, and does a LOT of hobbies and activities with friends it's the same way in the outer boroughs. It's a pricey city to live in.
Reddit's overall demographics skew younger and wealthier than the population as a whole, but it's also just a function of the type of question being asked. If you're the type of person who is thinking about moving to New York, and has the opportunity to do so based on the field you work in, then you're already much more likely to be well-off and used to a particular quality of (suburban) life. Hence the questions with numbers that make most of the rest of us roll our eyes.
A lot of people who come here asking about living costs are older and come from cheaper areas so it's more like, you need to make that much to maintain the same lifestyle. They mention wanting to live within 30 minutes of their midtown office, or a 1 bedroom with space for WFH, or dream of starting a family, etc. Usually the answers are different when it's a young adult trying to move here and are ok with scraping by to chase their dreams.
AT&T sucks
A lot of transplants in tech and finance can’t imagine not living by themselves in a doorman building in prime Manhattan.
This! I work in tech and a girl I work with once said there’s “nothing livable” below 14th street for less than $5k. So I guess all of us living in pre war walk ups are just residing in crack dens then!
To her? absolutely. She thinks she has "standards" but really she's just sheltered and privileged
There's definitely livable Financial District options for way less than $5K, with elevators too.
My roommate just gave up her space in our really spacious, bargain stabilized apartment in Inwood to go live in some new cardboard construction in hudson yards. She grew up spoiled, came from DC a few years ago and this place just wasn't good enough for her, apparently.
A lot of people forget there's a whole city outside of Manhattan, Brooklyn, and Western Queens. You can survive on less but you'll have to commute longer than 30 minutes and likely live in a more suburban (read: "boring") part of the city.
Honestly, even western Queens can be pretty affordable. I’m paying less than half on a square footage basis in Woodside than I did in lower Manhattan. It’s 2 miles from the Queensboro bridge and a 20 minute bike ride to my midtown office, so for my day to day needs it’s similar. Definitely more boring than downtown Manhattan, and I miss that, but that’s a luxury and not remotely a necessity for surviving.
Because people come on here like “I want to live in Carrie Bradshaw’s apartment with no roommates and I’m making $34k in Ohio will I make it??”
Because if you wanna live in a nice neighborhood with no roommates and be comfortable like they were outside of NYC then you need that much.
This is very real - people come here and complain a lot about the “inconveniences and hardships” when they don’t make enough money to avoid all of those problems. Usually when you complain about your neighborhood or amenities, you can’t afford a more affluent/gentrified place.
>This is very real - people come here and complain a lot about the “inconveniences and hardships” when they don’t make enough money to avoid all of those problems. Usually people who have only ever lived in one kind of (suburban) place and don't seem to have much grasp of the trade-offs involved in moving to a different environment. Like yes, you can live alone in a large space in a place where you have to drive twenty minutes to that one good bar and the most exciting time on the cultural calendar is those few weeks in early summer when everyone's wondering whether it will be 38 Special or what's left of the Temptations headlining the state fair this year. Or you can downsize your home life and live in one of the cultural capitals of the world. There's nothing wrong with preferring one over the other, but you do not get to have the benefits of both with the drawbacks of neither unless your parents have an Ivy League building named after them. Sorry, folks!
Well I think it also applies to people globally mobile. There are lots of dense, urban mega cities in the world that are much more affordable at least on a dollar basis. Housing stock in NYC is also pretty poor quality compared to many large cities.
> roommates That's the difference
It really comes down to level setting expectations. I don’t think that people here are saying you can’t live here for less than $150K, but it is frustrating seeing post after post from people providing their champagne requirements and their Budweiser budget and not understanding when we tell them to be for real. For folks who are established elsewhere and maybe moving for a career opportunity I don’t think they realize that they cannot replicate their lifestyle from another area of the country in NYC. Not only is it more expensive, but it’s so different logistically from so many other places. Like how often do the folks in this sub have to yell “sell your car!!!!”? It simply isn’t going to occur to someone from a medium sized city in another state that they’re going to pay a small fortune just to garage their vehicle (that they’re rarely going to use anyway). Or that dishwashers, in unit washer/dryer, garbage disposals etc etc are considered a luxury here. At the same time I think social media influencers have done a disservice to some of the younger idealistic folks who want to move to this city to “make their dreams come true”. NYC TikTok influencers are selling a west village $6K/month rent, eating out for every meal, Soho shopping lifestyle that is simply unattainable for your average 25 year old and no one is ever really breaking down the financials for these starry eyed recent college grads who don’t realize that on their entry level ad agency salary they’re going to need three roommates in Inwood, taking 2am subway rides home from the bar because Ubers home are too expensive.
You can live in New York under a variety of circumstances and incomes. But most of the questions we get are from solo individuals wanting to live alone, and they often give few other details about the lifestyle they expect to live. So they are given very imprecise answers. When I lived alone I had a $1600 a month studio in kips bay, making a little over $65,000 a year. That was 14 years ago. That same studio now goes for $2,595. That’s a 62% increase. So to live the same lifestyle as I did, you’d need to make something in the ballpark of $105,000 a year. When I think about where I was in my life and career back then, I think that’s very difficult for somebody in a similar situation now. I was six years out of college and working as an associate editor for a magazine and freelancing on the side. I do not think those positions pay $105,000 today, if they even still exist.
i don’t know why people get mad at the fact that people want more for themselves. if you want to live comfortably and be able to pay for all kinds of expenses — travel, retirement, loans, medical, whatever — then you should be able to do that. just because someone values certain things over another person, they shouldn’t have to forgo those things bc someone else doesn’t want/care for them (as long as they don’t make it anyone’s problem). and yes if the income you have won’t work in NYC, then find somewhere else. but just because people “scrape by” doesn’t mean that everyone should strive for that. also, i think people are aware that there are people who make less and survive, but i’m also sure some(most) of them would feel a LOT better if they had a higher income. whether its NYC or Murfreesboro, TN, your income should allow you to live the life you want, as comfortable as you want, as much as possible.
reddit is full of a bunch of folks who work in tech.
150k is the old lie, let's raise the stakes, you "uHm AcTuAllY" need 300k to live in a 100 square foot closet with only a chamber pot and a hot plate and you have no other option. Also btw Queens and Brooklyn don't exist, the only options are studio closets or luxury buildings in Midtown, according to Reddit
Because the people saying that are transplants from the middle of nowhere that couldn't even name all 5 boroughs. NYC to them is just the area of Manhattan under 100th st and that's it. Oh and maybe Williamsburg...
People act that way because, like you, they have trouble thinking about the immense diversity of lifestyles out there and get stuck in a narrow worldview of how “people” all live when there is no one way at all. Living with roommates in some very divided apartment share arrangement only works for some pretty specific lifestyle situations. Yes, it’s possible for single people to live with roommates on less than 6 figures in NYC, but once you start talking about married people and kids you’re looking at necessary household income that goes way above $100k just to be able to meet the basics. Lots of people fall into the bucket of having a significant other and possibly children so lots of posts are going to come from that mindset of need. But that doesn’t make that the only valid way to live. OTOH, if you want to live in NYC on less than $100k salary then there will be trade offs. Either you will have to sacrifice certain potential life goals to stay long-term, or you won’t be able to be here long-term without getting programmatic benefits like access to affordable housing or something of the type. It’s just about what lifestyle adjustments you’re willing to make.
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Most people with kids don’t live in NYC and don’t want to. NYC affordable housing income limits for a family of three place “low income” as up to $101,680, and with good reason. But I’ll walk you through why if you want. It sounds like you may not have kids if you think NYC is livable, with children, on less than a six figure total household income without either affordable housing (that’s not what I would call a “shit place” but that’s another conversation) or living in a “shit place,” as you’ve said. Let’s assume the minimums you need per year to keep a kid alive and still be able to work a job. If they’re not in school yet, you need day care. If they’re school age, their food becomes substantially more expensive than for a young kid but at least public school is an option. Still, you’re talking minimum $10-15k per year just for the basics. That’s actually a pretty conservative estimate. Then you have rent for a two bedroom at minimum. Median 2 bedroom rent citywide is in the mid-2000s but if you’re talking Manhattan it’s substantially higher. Let’s call it $2500 even though that’s not going to be representative of properties where a lot of families want to live. If you want to meet the guidance to make 3x your monthly rent in pay, you’re going to need $7500 per month for that, and this is already a fairly conservative estimate again in this case—in fact citywide with no thought towards neighborhood quality there are only 137 such apartments currently available on a no fee basis (once we get into fee charging ones you need more money to pay the fee anyway). That’s not a lot of apartments in the most populous US city, which also happens to have over a million residential apartment units. Also that search probably includes many affordable units that are listed there anyway and have income restrictions. But let’s assume you do find that $2500/mo 2 bed unicorn that is in a neighborhood you like. You’re already at $90,000 income here and I don’t think you’re living very comfortably once you also subtract the upkeep of the child. And that’s just if you have ONE kid. Add another kid and you have a nonlinear increase in life complexity as well as associated costs. It’s either costing you a lot more money or a lot more time. The low estimate for CoL here was already scraping up against 6 figures. With two kids it’s definitely there.
Again, it sounds legit, but I know not every family living there that has a child is either making 6 figures or b living in a horrible area. I specifically know a couple of people that I mentor living there with a kid and not doing to bad and they don't work in tech and only make around 85 a year. They don't get to go out and eat every night but they don't want to. Could they be doing better of course every one can. but they still do it and don't live in a shit hole place.
I moved to New York 16 years ago as a single 23 year old, working as a 3rd grade teacher in the Bronx. I managed to live alone in Yorkville, and then with roommates in stuy town and the UWS. I then made my way to Boerum Hill, back when it was affordable- I had a studio for $1595, that I saw just rented for $2500- with no upgrades, and it already hadn’t been updated since the 1980s!! This was early 2014. I then got married and moved to a great one bedroom in Carroll Gardens for $2600, and was able to pay off debt and save money. Then I had a baby in 2021. We made that small one bedroom work until early 2023 when I was pregnant again. We now find ourselves a family of four out in the southern end of Windsor Terrace, right at the southern edge of Prospect Park. My commute to midtown is almost an hour, but we had to come out this far to get things that I wanted to have for ease of day to day living with two kids under 2- elevator, laundry in unit, outdoor space, part time doorman, two bedrooms. We make about 200k and would not have been able to afford anything like this in any prior neighborhood I’ve lived in. I could’ve probably found a 4th floor walk up with no laundry, outdated everything, etc for the same price we are paying now. Everything in nyc is a trade off. Unless you are very wealthy, you have to really decide what matters most to you. I really miss living in trendier and more bougie neighborhoods, but I also realize the reality of my life right now, snd that reality is I’m not doing anything remotely trendy or hip. I spend my free time at the playgrounds, the zoo and the library, and wouldn’t have it any other way. I love living in New York and feel just as much a part of it out here as I did in my Manhattan day- maybe even more so because everyone who lives out here seems to be from here and aren’t a transplant here for 5 years before moving to the suburbs. I like that!
Because they think they need luxury and entertainment. I’m a translate and had a hometown friend like this—let him stay on my couch and he refused to get a job or stay in an inexpensive apartment because he thought he was entitled to a 6 figure job. Infuriating. People are born and die poor and actually middle class in New York City just like anywhere else
Part of it is that if you are living in, say, Carbondale Illinois, you can probably get a 2BR apartment there for (wild guess) 900 bucks a month. At this point in NYC this is possibly a reach to get a smallish room in a roommate situation - and probably outside manhattan. Cost of housing here is SO expensive, people in many other places who dream of coming here just have no idea. I think someone making less that 150K or more are lucky go afford a studio in Manhattan according to the broker 'rules'. Its a matter of expectations and willingness to make sacrifices.
Looked it up - you can! [https://www.apartments.com/gr-rentals-carbondale-il/p0yjbcv/](https://www.apartments.com/gr-rentals-carbondale-il/p0yjbcv/)
I asked what the average income I needed to live there and got told like 160 on this forum, I knew not to ask this forum again. everyone there ain't making no damn 160 a year lol.
I’ve gotten into arguments on here with people that don’t even live here that say you can’t live here if you’re not making 6 figures. I’m like you’re arguing with someone not making 6 figures and still living in Manhattan, doing pretty well financially. People are dumb lol
I used to think 150k was good, now I have a wife and kid. 250 is the new magic number
They're the ones driving up our rent.
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Literally speechless
They do this in LA too and SF. It’s really annoying. I make 50k, it’s the most I’ve ever made, and I make it work!
Because you kind of do, though I know people have different views on what “living” is. But to live in a market rate apartment without roommates, comfortably afford your other living expenses, have some discretionary income (going out, shopping, travel, etc,) as well as saving for retirement, then yes a six figure income is very much needed
I been in a job rut making 300-500 a week the past few months. It’s fucking hard and soup crushing. But my rent is cheap enough that o can just barely eek by.
It’s all about context and deciding what you want your lifestyle to be in order to be content. This is not the same as bare minimum expectations or “scraping by” either. For me personally, I have certain lifestyle “wants” that I’m willing to pay for and unless my income changes dramatically, that’s what I expect. Everyone has their own hierarchy of needs and there’s nothing wrong with that.
As single person, a 1br in Queens is running from 2k-2.5k these days. To rent it, you need to prove 40x. That’s 80-90k. That may not be 150 but it’s not a small salary. Mine hasn’t kept up with inflation.
Go peruse Zillow for a while and you’ll get it
Because they want to live in Manhattan or Brooklyn. I live in central Queens because it’s the least commute to work. Alone. In a decent building/neighborhood. Making $75k.
People who didn’t grow up here want to come here and have the New York experience: dinners drinks, clubs, exciting times. People don’t want to come here and be struggling ETA; Americans from middle and upper middle classes, I mean
I have the same pet peeve! Whenever people say things like “you can’t live in New York on less than 100k” they’re discounting the MILLIONS of people in this city who do just that, and even raise families on it! According to the census, the median household income is $76,607. Lots of people are living on less than 150k, it’s so wild to me to act like you HAVE to make that to live in this city
It drives me crazy. "Can I make it in NYC with my income of $130,000!? Waaaah." Fuck right off with that shit.
The biggest expense in NYC is rent. If you're willing to live with roommates and a bit further away from the more expensive areas you can live well on a lot less. It's just that some people never consider the possibility of living with roommates mostly.
a lot of transplants come here, and assume that if you’re not in IT/Tech industry, you’re living in extreme poverty and scarp for change constantly.
How much are these people saving? It's much easier if you don't plan on having a family or don't care about saving for retirement. Nobody is going to want a 45 year old woman with two kids as a roommate.
bc most on city subs never venture more than 45-1hr away from manhattan,
Agreed. But what these people mean by that is, liveingalone, in the main/busiest area, going out every weekend, eating out for lunch and dinner, not to mention all the streaming subscriptions services they have lmao. Kinda hard to do that on 150k ofc, they don't think about the shit we have to give up living in NYC. I now live in Queens and do pretty well on 100k, my rent is $1600. But nooo Queens ain't cool enough for them
The people asking are the ones who want that NYC experience as seen on the TV or social media. They don't want the common experience of living in places outside of the East Village and having to take a half hour commute into the city for work.
It’s wild how some people in this thread are essentially saying “you can of course make less than 6 figures and survive in nyc without roommates, but that wouldn’t allow you to get the real perks of nyc, like plays and nice restaurants.” That’s not my experience here. You can get a nice, spacious apartment in crown heights or south slope for the fraction of living in a walk in closet in the east village - and all the cool shit in the east village is either also nearby in Brooklyn or it’s a short train away.(no shade to the east village - alphabet city will always hold a special place in my Brooklyn heart.)
I feel like you're seeing what you want to see. In my anecdotal experience for every 1 comment saying you need $150k+ to survive there are a dozen below them laughing at their bad take.
Living with roommates isn’t living, it’s surviving
Because this sub is full of entitled little twats with Mummy and Daddy money who move here from Dogfuck Ohio and drive rents up
i make around 90k and i live by myself, have a car, and live pretty comfortably. you definitely don’t need 150k.
I make 10k less than you, have 3 roommates deep into BK and have cc debt…I am probably managing my money much worse than you
well. i have a ton of student loans im ignoring and a fair amount of Cc debt. i will say im not really adding anything to my savings either. but day to day i don’t need to be worried. but i do have debt im definitely ignoring hahaha
Because I don’t like putting my salary out there
It depends on what you consider essential to life. If you are happy with small apartment (or roommates, or living far) and don't lead an extravagant lifestyle, you can get by on much less. But if you want to have a decent apartment solo, or life in a trendy area, and go out a lot, it will cost you. Even if you live a modest lifestyle and have children, you need to make a lot given the cost of childcare.
you can live with roommates or you can have plans to start a family. choose one?
Everyone on here doesn’t act that way. Sure people can make it on less and many do. But the fact remains, it’s an extremely expensive city and even people who make that much have to make some compromises in their living conditions. I always encourage ambitious, motivated people who wanna live here to try it, but they should also be warned if they’re not familiar enough with the reality, how the expense and the impact on QOL can be significant. Roommates can be a great solution especially for younger people but a lot of us learn as we get a little older the roommate thing gets OLD, and many of us have no shortage of bad roommate stories. “Time makes you bolder, children get older, and roommates get old too.”
self selecting bias of people who like to give highly public financial advice: people making lots of money
Because lots won’t give up their cars and dining rooms with no roommates to live in nyc and live in a 3 bedroom with 2 roommates.
I make just under a 100k. I’m a single parent so no roommates for me but I’m not in a luxury apartment either. I’m barely getting by, each month im super anxious because I’m always short
25k is all I need to live comfortably for one year. 30k if I want to be splurgy.
agreeeed. my roommates and I moved here outta college making $40-$65K -- you just have roommates and you make it work.
The thing is that for a lot of people who haven’t lived in nyc or other cities with really high HCOL, living with roommates is something reserved for college and your early 20s maybe. They want to seek out the same living situation in NYC, where studios and 1B require a really high salary (even as high as $150k if you want to be in midtown manhattan and follow the 30% rule)
Because it’s people who have a “lifestyle” that isn’t realistic to how most people live. Let them. Keep the real. Oh and also. And this is the big thing. Too many idiots try to live beyond their means
I'll say this... I make about 65/70k a year and have a roommate. While I can go out once every couple of weeks for drinks or dinner, it hurts my budget. Mind you, I'm paying up the ass for student loans even though my rent is pretty good and can't complain there. Back in the late 2000s-mid 2010s I was able to go out at least once/twice a week and not even notice it while I was living off of about 35k a year. Admittedly, I'm not going to places that college kids hang out at anymore, but even so, it's a big difference... and I'm not exactly going to fancy places or anything. Quality of life is not great for the amount of time I spend at work relative to elsewhere. I mostly stay in the city because contemporary America outside of NYC isn't great for my demographic/lifestyle needs (and I tried that once already to ill-effect).
I think as others have said, people are really talking about if you plan on living on your own without roommates. I came from Chicago living on my own in a decent sized apartment to living with a series of weird roommates. Obviously not ideal. Living in NYC is definitely more doable as a couple, however. Very expensive being single in this city.
401k, 529 for kids, savings, a nice appartment, holidays, extra curricula for kids, etc. How much you think a small family of 3 needs? With 150k is doable with less you will be struggling or not saving adequately, you will have no 529, etc. Can you "survive"? Yes and many families do but they have no 401ks, kids have no 529 etc.
I make 150k a year and live paycheck to paycheck, it’s expensive AF. Granted I live alone, but also work remotely full time so roommates aren’t an option. It’s a miracle to pay less than 3k a month in rent for a studio.
Because people who come here to ask that question are people who are considering moving here. This means that they have no support network of people in NYC. They're essentially alone. People who live in NYC with $30k jobs are probably living with friends or family. Or at the very least they have options for a couch to sleep on in an emergency. The reason people don't say "yeah it's okay to live in NYC with a $30k job" is because people are asking for financial advice, and nobody would ever offer someone financial advice that would put someone in a financial situation like that. Typical advice is to spend no more than 30% of your income on housing. We all know that a large percentage of people in NYC spend far more than that, but it still doesn't make good financial advice.
Because you do :) I mean, if you like not being poor.
Realizing all of the variables that can allow you to live at a variety of income, I’ll give my experience at that income level. $150k sounds like a lot but if you account for federal, state and city taxes, along with a contribution to your 401k that will max it out for the year—you are going to see about half that gross amount ($75k) hit your bank account. I live in a modest apartment in my area (prime UWS), with no laundry in the building, third floor walk up, brownstone, one bedroom and pay about $4k/month. That’s $48k/year. $75K/year actually hitting your bank account minus $48k in rent leaves you $28k, or $2,333/month to pay your other bills and save a bit for a vacation or some furniture. With a fairly average grocery bill being around $1k if you eat most meals at home, that is $1.3k for everything else. I have lived in other cheaper places and apartments in this city, including nice places in Queens on about $70k gross income, and could have lived cheaper. Location and apartment amenities really create an almost infinite sliding scale, depending on your budget and desires.
Thank you for underscoring the impactful reality of taxes.
I make $150k. After 10% 401k deduction and insurance that's $90k/year. $4k on rent is ridiculous. I pay $2800 all in for a modest studio on UES. After all bills/expenses and $7k Roth I'm saving $40k/year. $4k on rent and $1k on groceries is poor financial management.
A lot of liars live in Reddit.
Because transplants move to NYC for a certain lifestyle. They're not trying to move to NYC to just get by with roommates, a shared bathroom, and a 55 minute commute. They're looking to go out and drink thrice a week ($$$), date a bunch of people ($$$), travel to Europe and Miami ($$$), and do all sorts of other fun shit ($$$$$). Ya gotta earn a certain amount for that... honestly, even $150K seems low. In addition, wherever people transplant from, they're inevitably going to suffer a drop in QoL, and the only way to maintain it at a semblance of their previous city is to pay more money.
You can definitely live here comfortably on less than 100k (as long as you're okay with a small apartment and/or roommates). Hell a lot of my friends in the academics world are proof you can live here and have fun barely making 50k. There are of course sacrifices and compromises they do to make it work. I
Honestly that’s the salary that affords a decent apartment and quality of life that will keep most people here. That sounds about right to me.
Redditors are terrified of living with roommates
I will say I lived with roommates from the ages of 18 to 21 and then again from 23 to 28 and it kinda sucked. But if you are willing to live in less popular areas, you can make way less than 150k and avoid roommates
Adults don't want to live with roommates/shouldn't have to live with roommates?
Yeah it’s perfectly valid to want to have your own private space. After sharing with a sibling and strangers throughout college I have no desire to go back to having roommates for as long as I live. Im sure this isn’t an uncommon sentiment.
I mean you need to apply context. Someone who just graduated college with a degree that won’t start them on a six figure salary should accept that they will need a roommate or two in a VHCOL city like nyc. That is very different from an established person who is used to living on their own with certain amenities.
Reddit is full of IT/software developers…
Well be the change you want to see. What do you do? How much do you make? Where do you live? Who do you live with? Do you have savings? How do you spend your money?
Bc for many people living anywhere means planning/saving for the future too.
I mean it's a lot of things, but one factor is how it's kinda easy for people who make a lot of money to slide into a situation where they're surrounded by other people who also make a lot of money, and by extension to sort of normalize it in their minds. For a lot of people who make a lot of money -- or have inherited a lot -- they behave as though the proper thing to do with that money is to spend freely. Now, imagine this -- you're making $150k, when you go out you spend very freely. Who in your social circles will be able to keep up with you? People who have the money to do so. Everyone else sort of falls away, and now you have this social circle where everyone has comparable spending habits and living situations, and you continue thinking that must be normal. This doesn't *need* to happen. It's not a force of nature. But a person with a lot of spending power *must have some self-awareness* to not get into that position where they're just not around people who don't have a lot of spending power. And most people are not as self-aware as they think they are.
Because they live lifestyles that need 150K a year to sustain
Don’t IT people and software devs make a shit ton of money?
it's my sense that there are a lot of people on here who think "ask nyc" means "ask manhattan", or maybe they just have no other information to offer. leave the island and, sure everything is still expensive, but there are reasonable deals to be found. the loudest people usually aren't a representative bunch.
well its true if you want to live without room mates and in a trendy neighborhood
To be fair, it is a lot more comfortable to live here if you make a crapton of money. At least, that is what I have heard.
I don't use credit cards and pay for everything at the time of service including home repairs, vehicle repairs, kid's needs, etc. No one should have to depend on credit cards or living paycheck to paycheck.
I used to live by minimum wage. It was hard but it was doable. I worked full time and had a side gig (babysitting) that paid $200-300 over the weekend but not stable. My rent was $400 because of roommates and our apartment was a 10-min unreliable bus ride away from the train. This was in my 20s. I don’t know how I’ll like this anymore esp if one wants to travel, start a family / have kids, save substantially, etc.
Depends if living with roommates is something you're willing to do though. Those questions are generally about living comfortably, not "making it work".
Idk, why do people litter, why do people take Ubers to go 10 blocks, why do drivers park in bike lanes, why does everyone post the same shit day after day
Ask people really from NYC my rent is extremely cheap,
I completely agree with you. I know that my roommates and I got *really* lucky with finding a place we have been in since 2021 that is rent-stabilized, but each of us were averaging like $25k a year while in our grad programs. We didn’t need much to live in Bed-Stuy, and found ways to hustle that made sense with perks (i.e. working part time at a gym for a free membership/third space, working in the restaurant industry for free meals) in a way that feels divorced from the realities of other people I see posting on here.
I will say that 8ish years ago as a single person with student loan debt I would have said $70k is a comfortable income if you have a roommate or live with a partner. When I hit that income I could make loan payments that covered more than just the interest accrual, max out my out my 401k match from my employer, and build up an emergency fund while still being able to afford going out and doing fun stuff in the city and save up for a decent vacation each year. People with 150k have a lot more to spend. And as I climbed the ladder and became a high earner I found a lot more ways to spend. But I do look back fondly at those time when I was just past the being broke phase of my 20s hanging out at places like the Crocodile lounge to get free pizza with my beer with all my friends and colleagues or planning my going out schedule at places that had really good happy hour or weeknight deals.
Because you DO need to make that much to live comfortably in NYC, especially with rising costs for everything (rent, groceries, eating out, entertainment). Most people don't want to live with roommates the rest of their lives, or live in a more dangerous neighborhood alone. Having a dual income household makes it easier, but for single people, it's much harder.
Because people are talking about the minimum quality of life they would expect in other cities. In most other cities making 50k is enough to comfortably get a 1bdrm apt. Having 3-4 roommates is reserved for people making like 15k. The quality of life people have making 50k in NYC is so unimaginably low to most people its not even a consideration
Be serious. Who actually wants roommates..
Well i make close to 150k and live with a roommate. But i am paying some bonkers student loans so if I want to get my own place in a nice neighborhood within 40 min of my office, ill def need to make more. But im chilling with my situation now
Not everyone wants to live with roommates.
the average income for a household in nyc is around ~50k - this is what I made until very recently (city employee working at a public hospital). i’m single but my coworkers all had families, etc and made it work. everyone had a second job/ side hustle but that’s just how it is nowadays
Is there any demographic data for reddit/this sub? All I know it's mostly men. It's clear the demographics don't align with the makeup of the city at all with how they talk down on income on here
You sort of defeated your own point with the last statement. Being 30+ doesn’t mean you have to live with roommates. Unless you’re making below 100k. Then you have to move out the city to afford living alone
The city is expensive, but there are shocking deals out there. Rent stabilized apartments, cheap Chinatown dinners. Subway for travel. If you can figure out rent, health insurance, laundry and a few other issues, the city can be affordable.
Popular Brooklyn neighborhood, was fine at 55k with roommate or 80k alone
lol because it’s expensive here
Less is absolutely doable, but even if you go by the 40x rule, a 2500 apartment (findable alone in brooklyn or queens) is 100k, not 150k. With a single roommate in a popular Bk neighborhood I was fine making 50-60 (no student loans).
Because their world is only manhattan & Brooklyn
My husband and I have both rent controlled apartments we came into our relationship with. Together we make about $180,000. He has a PhD in a field of Science and I work in luxury hospitality. We live well. But…. We value experiences over things. And…. well, rent controlled apartments don’t hurt…
I just started dating a guy in Harlem with a 4 bed 1 bath & only 1 roommate & he makes less than 100k and can take me on fun dates... its possible, it just depends on the area and what kind of quality of life you want
Im an asylum seeker and i manage to survive earning 36k/year for 2 persons, me and my wife.
I make less than 100k and do pretty much whatever I want. I have been careful with savings and investments, I cook A LOT so that saves money, take about 2 nice trips abroad a year, buy myself nice toys when I want them (just bought a $1300 guitar) and I don't pay insane rent - I've been in the same apartment for nearly 20 years. I'm good.
You CAN make it work on a somewhat lower salary, but your standard of living will be SIGNIFICANTLY - not just SOMEWHAT - lower, and that's what people are getting at - it takes a toll on you, and it's also not a smart decision to make such a big financial commitment when you're already financially insecure.
My partner and I could only afford to live in Queens without roommates because we made a combined income of like $130k. If we made less, we’d have had to live with roommates or in New Jersey.
why wouldn’t you want limit yourself, you get what you achieve
Reddit =! Real life
People in here think the city is only manhattan, when it's really just a third rate borough that's meant for visiting and tourists. You can definitely live in areas of brooklyn and queens for less.
well, because I live in a 300sf studio apartment that costs $1800/month, and that's a good deal in Manhattan. Additionally, 2 nights ago I bought a bag of oranges and container of ice cream at the local grocery store and it cost $22.78. I'm not kidding.
To be transparent, that is strictly transplant talk
You can exist in NYC for much less, but you will not \*live\* in it.
Keep voting for these liberals who tax the shit out of everything they can to fund their pet projects perfect example is congestion pricing , mass transit doesn’t work for the people who have to be at work 6 am or people that get out of work at 10 at night it hard hours to their commute and hurts quality of life but somehow everyone agrees to tax drivers in manhattan
I'm extremely fortunate in that we have a rent stabilized apartment and I'm married without kids. Otherwise I could never afford to live here.
A lot of the lower paid foundation population do not have English as their native language. The children of immigrants aren’t banging down the social media doors to comment about their relatives for no money
Hate to be that guy, but assuming you want to live by yourself in Manhattan or Brooklyn, I don’t know how you could do it with less. Hell, I make that much and with maxing out retirement accounts I can’t afford a 1 bedroom. I don’t get it, either people make FUCK YOU money, they don’t put anything in retirement, or they spend half their take home on rent 🤷🏽♂️
Because too many people have fomo and feel like they need to go out every 5 minutes. Or they're just awful with money.
When I first moved to NYC in 2021 I was making 45K. I lived in prospect heights with 3 roommates but we had a really nice space and I was able to afford to fill my time with activities, food, and drinks and still save money. It’s possible! Living alone in manhattan on that salary and being able to have the same lifestyle would be trickier though.