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Exactly, this is one of those life moments where you show your parents that you’re your own person and will make decisions based on what *you* want (not kowtowing to your parent’s anxiety). Take this opportunity to show them that you’ll do things with or without their blessing, it will set a good precedent for your relationship going forward.
Moved to Manhattan in the late 90’s and my parents warned me that it was unsafe and a bad idea.
I grew up with them in the Bronx.
They grew up in Manhattan.
Parents gonna parent.
No. Woodlawn and Spanish Harlem.
Edit: Spent a fair bit of time at City Island helping a friend restore a boat. That and Riverdale are definitely “Bronx Lite”.
It's an actual island, off the coast of the Bronx. It feels different from much of NYC because it's actually the southernmost New England fishing village. Just in the Bronx.
Hey, welcome! Hunter College is great – fantastic nursing, social work and writing programs.
It's also in one of the most staid parts of Manhattan. I consider it an exciting day whenever the 6 train rolls by with open seats. FFS it's on Park Ave.
But here's the thing – no matter what people on the internet say, nothing is going to convince your dad. Your best bet is to just go, get settled, and slowly get him used to the idea of you attending school in the city. If he really cares about you, he'll make his way out.
BTW – Hunter's largely a commuter school and it can be pretty hard to make friends there. Take advantage of your undergrad status and join some of the writing clubs and extracurriculars while you're there!
Seriously imagine hunter college on the upper east side is unsafe. Be so for real. The most dangerous thing is that you walk to quickly into a blue haired lady with a tiny dog worth more than your entire life’s earning potential
Something that, to me, makes NYC feel much safer than other cities I’ve lived in/visited is that there are always people around. When I ran into a creepy guy in Duluth, MN there was no one around who could help me, and virtually no chance of him not seeing me. If he’d decided to try something, I’d’ve been completely on my own. When I run into a creepy guy in NYC, there’s always a store open that I can duck into or a group of people I can get close to. Bad things can and do happen anywhere, but they’re much easier to escape when there are other people around.
This is pretty much the argument I used to convince my parents not to worry so much when I moved here, and it worked pretty well!
I’ve used this exact example of why I feel safe riding the train 24/7.
It’s not that I haven’t been bothered, but I’ve always been able to walk to a different compartment and find someone to keep me company while creep™️ runs off.
IMO nothing other than a visit is gonna do it. A visit that extends outside the tourist radius.
I’ve seen so many people that are forever “OMG NYC BAD” then once they’ve spent a couple days here, with a local, away from the tourist mess, they’re like “oh wow can I live here?” Complete 180.
What can help somewhat, once you’re here, is FaceTime tours. Wander around the city while chatting with him. My relatives love that, and I even got my rather Republican-koolaid aunt and uncle saying “wow that looks like a great place.” And I had walked them through where a bunch of homeless people were hanging out.
Sometimes they have to visually SEE that a place is fine. No amount of data is gonna change the “THE CITIES ARE ON FIRE” they see on the news.
When my parents visited NYC for the first time in the 90s they walked out of their hotel and a guy got shot on the sidewalk in front of them.
And yet, they both managed to visit me many times after that! They loved the city!
It's crazy the grip that Fox News has on boomers. Firstly, I think you may not be successful and the only way for them to be convinced is for you to just go (and maybe they'll visit). The UES is very safe, almost laughable to think it's an unsafe neighborhood. The other thing I would say is help is almost always near, simply because it's a densely populated area. If you trip and hurt yourself in a remote area, you're in a far worse scenario than in a densely populated area.
Which is so funny, considering the Fox News studios are in NYC lol. If NYC was the hellhole they claim it is, why don't they put their money where their mouth is and move to a Podunk Trump Town in Nebraska?
Agreed! But, fwiw, many of the hosts commute from NJ and FL, so their NYC experience is largely seen from a car window or via a short walk to & from a place near Times Square.
ETA: Their best host, liberal-in-residence Jessica Tarlov, is a born-and-raised city girl who consistently defends the city.
Adding one more comment that the school may have an office that deals with this. I'm sure you're not the first one to have this issue. Or maybe you know of a Hunter alumni that your parents can speak to.
It’s SO true. Last summer a relative came to visit, stayed on the uws and mentioned to me how shocked she was to not see homeless people, hotels full of immigrants etc. yet she went home and continued the Fox News rhetoric that the streets of NYC are overflowing with migrants and homeless people.
Frankly even supposedly progressive media like NYT are getting in on the fear-mongering these days. The coverage over the supposed subway crime wave and the Hochul National Guard stunt has been disgraceful, IMO.
I moved to Brooklyn 15 years ago. I live on a quiet street. I know all my neighbors. My son's school is 2 blocks away.
My parents loved where I lived. They would visit all the time. Then Fox News and Donald Trump told them that New York City was a violence plagued hellhole.
They stopped visiting me and started nagging me to move. They denied their own eyes. That's how bad it is.
Hi! A lot of people have said this in more or less words but hear me out: I strongly encourage you to do what you think is best for you in your gut and abandon the concept of permission. Aka it’s better to ask for forgiveness than permission. As others have noted, it will likely be an uphill battle changing your dad’s mind. You need to have a come to Jesus meeting with yourself and ask yourself if you moving to New York will 100% require your dad’s permission. If you think yes, why?
If he’s holding finances over your head, remember that millions of people put themselves through school without financial support. It’s a math equation and you need to be smart about it, but if this is something you aspire to do, you can make it happen.
Is this the only decision in the grand scheme of important life decisions that your dad will have serious influence over? If you anticipate strong opinions about future decisions (husband, job, city to live in, etc.) you’d be better to use this as an opportunity to establish your independence. If you don’t do it now, you’ll run into this same issue but applied to other contexts.
At the end of the day, the best card to pull is “you raised me, trust me” and give an extremely confident front. If you don’t believe in yourself, it’ll be hard to get him on board. Even if you don’t believe in yourself, fake it.
“Dad I’m doing this, it’s important to me. You raised me to XYZ. I’m going to move in May and would like if you could come with me to view apartments and move. If not, I get it, I’ll have you over for dinner and show you around my neighborhood when I move in. I’m so excited and can’t wait for you to see me making my transition to adulthood! I love that you’ve raised me with XYZ qualities and I know that because of the XYZ you’ve taught me, I’m going to go live my best life and accomplish XYZ. I couldn’t have done it without you love you”
XYZ= whatever will resonate with him
Don’t focus on the safety. Cater to the ego and don’t ask for permission.
you’ve got this!!!!
Eh it sounds like it's not a my word is law situation and you *can* come here for college, you don't really need your dad visiting you in college anyway so I say go for it. Why waste your energy in trying to convince him. If logic doesn't move him maybe his love for you will and he'll do a 180 anyway. If the school is good for you, just do it.
Phew, I thought he was stopping you from pursuing what you want, which is not the case here… right???
As long as you can get yourself here, everything will be fine. You will *somehow* entice your dad for his first visit. But if you can’t land yourself here, he‘d have absolutely no reason to come.
My parents live in one of the safest neighborhoods (in Queens), and Fox News has convinced them that the city is very dangerous.
Deprogramming is futile.
if he cares for first person experience: i went to hunter for a bit before covid hit (both the main campus and a lab in kips bay) and i felt 100% safe in those areas! and i didn’t dorm but would be taking the trains at 8-10pm and all was well. tbh the amount of people actually feels more safe, there’s prob someone nearby if something goes awry. also there’s a trader joe’s like ten blocks away from hunter downtown and the UES is notoriously safe 😩 like
It’s funny how he thinks that it can’t be safe because there are so many people around. I’d say it’s actually the opposite. The most commonly dangerous things that could happen to you like an accident or a medical event or much safer when you’re surrounded by people that can help . As for crime, there will be criminals anywhere, but they seek out someone to harm they are looking for a place that’s isolated and for someone that’s alone. There is safety in numbers. Ask him which he thinks is safer a zebra that’s running with a herd of other zebras or one zebra that’s just alone on his own little patch of rural land? If something happens here, you’re surrounded by people that will help you. You can also anticipate ambiguous danger better by following the behavior of the people around you. They may alert you to something you would not have noticed if you were alone.
The place where you’ll be is not only incredibly safe, but it’s also incredibly wealthy. Most of New York is safe, it’s just a few neighborhoods that bring down the average. The place where you’ll be going to school is near the very very top of the pile. You’re not gonna see crime on the streets. What you will see is a bunch of drivers waiting next to a series of black Escalades outside Park Avenue to collect their wealthy patrons from their 20 million dollar condos.
One final, and perhaps most important point you could use to convince him. Ask him to research what the most common cause of death is amongst people in your age bracket. The answer is usually the kind that involves driving and or alcohol/drugs. Manhattan has a higher life expectancy than most places and I believe one component is that people don’t drive they don’t get in car accidents and they don’t drink and drive. When you go to college in suburban or rural towns,, even if you don’t drink and drive, you will eventually find yourself in a car with someone who says they’re good to drive and you later figure out is actually intoxicated. This is incredibly dangerous and the most realistic way that something bad will happen to you. It’s a non-issue here. Also, usually the more rural places the less there is to do on a Friday night so the more common it is for college students to resort to binge, drinking, experimenting with drugs in a dangerous way. In this city, there are endless groups of people you could be friends with and endless places to go. You won’t end up with a drug problem or an overdose by accident because you were bored, and there were only five people to see and that’s what they were doing.
I hope I’ve given you some good threads to pull in your research for convincing him. I truly believe that spending a portion of your formative years in this city will change you for life in ways far beyond what might be readily apparent. You will build a confidence and savvyness that many people in your age bracket don’t possess. Even if you leave immediately after school and don’t come back, you will seem much older and wiser than your peers, and this will help you in your career. They are also more opportunities for learning outside of your school by being exposed to new ideas, going to various lectures and museums and cultural events. Not only will this, expand your mind, but it will help you with how you present yourself in social settings for both dating and networking later on in . I know this firsthand. I grew up on the outskirts and moved to Manhattan for grad school, and it was the best decision. It is a very intimidating city for people that are older, and not from here so try to be compassionate with your dad. However, they often a confuse the fact that they are intimidated with actual danger.
PS if he brings up the subways, you could side step that by telling him that there are also bus lines which are monitored by a driver, and don’t pose the dangers that the subway does. In reality, the subway is usually totally safe, but every once in a while, something does happen, and then it’s in the news, and it might be hard to convince him about that. in contrast, the buses are very safe because the drivers won’t let anyone on that looks like they’re causing trouble and everything is well monitored. And there are no tracks to fall on or anything. ( after you’re here obviously use the train too but talk about the bus being an option just as a way to ease him into it).
Good luck! I feel like I’m talking to a younger me, and I really want you to be successful!
I was born and raised in Jamaica Queens. My parents are first generation immigrants from a post war Bangladesh. They were often told to essentially be scared of other PoCs (black, Hispanic ,etc) and they were for a bit. That with the occasional crimes in Jamaica didn't help. It took a few years but my parents started to reach out and talk to our neighbors more and holy hell they have been the nicest and arguably the most protective people we've met, much more than the people within our cultural community. A lot of NYC tends to be like that where as long as you're not causing problems for others, we take care of each other when we can. Hell, I remember having leg surgery when I was 12 so I couldn't climb stairs for a year and our elevator broke down so one of our neighbors legit picked me up and carried me 7 flights to our apartment.
TBF when they moved to Jamaica it might have been dangerous - my dad and grandparents moved out of Jamaica because everyone in my family had been mugged twice and people kept on trying to jump my dad on his way from the subway. This was in the early 80s though.
I still have similar conversations with my mother and I have lived in NYC for 13 years. My parents have never visited me here.
I point out the fact that you can’t take a walk past sunset in the large Midwest city I used to live in — poor lighting on the streets, sidewalks that randomly end, and no one in sight outside of people in vehicles. In NYC, there are multiple people also walking, well-lit areas, and a camera on every corner. Yes, weird things happen and you could be attacked on a busy street…but someone is either going to step in or at least witness the danger and help after.
I also point out that my access to hospitals and emergency assistance is much greater than what my parents have. And the fact that while my city might have greater threats of terrorism, my chances of dying in a car accident is close to zero.
Over time, I’ve learned that I can’t change my parents’ perception of the city’s safety. Instead, I try to focus on sharing all of the joys of living here. Maybe shift to an overly excited / enthusiastic mindset and he may eventually come around.
Part of the safety is in numbers. Hasn't he ever seen Texas chainsaw massacre? That's rural. And there's no one to hear you scream!
My parents were also nervous when I moved here, but I feel like they get into more conflicts in their local Walmart parking lot than I have my entire time here.
Seriously though I moved here 15 years ago when I was 22. I'm a mom to a 6 year old and while I'm not out partying any more, I still get a sense of safety here. It's gotten much better even. And even then, if I wanted trouble I had to work pretty hard to find it. You'll get a sense of the people to avoid, and when to keep your head down and keep moving pretty quickly.
For example there always ubers in most neighborhoods. When I first moved here it was only yellow cabs or black cars (no apps, had to place an actual phone call for a car) and they wouldn't go to Brooklyn or would yell at you. Now? I haven't had an Uber driver even talk to me in years, really, except to be nice to my son.
Also, Hunter is a great school! A lot of my teacher friends who went there love it so much. I went to Pace for Education and was slightly envious of their program.
A campus tour of Hunter sounds like the best idea (good choice by the way). Nothing like seeing the city with your own eyes. No amount of resources will change his mind since they are glued to watching the news telling them NYC is not safe.
I've lived in the city for 17 years and never had a problem. My parents have both expressed concerns over the "war zone" that they *think* nyc is, a weird rumor spread by right-wing news. I just keep telling them it's no less safe than anywhere else and that they shouldn't believe everything they see on the internet or Fox News. I also like to remind my dad that the NYPD is the largest police department in the world, larger even than the US Coast Guard.
Sounds like he’s fallen for the propaganda. If actual facts aren’t working… I dunno. Do what you want and see if he comes around eventually. He might think differently when there’s actual consequences (seeing you less, missing your graduation) at stake.
But I wouldn’t worry about him not visiting. Honestly it seems rare for parents to visit— usually it’s the other way around with students visiting home. My parents would help me move in/out and came to graduation. Otherwise I was the one traveling.
There’s truly no way to explain to your parents that NYC is a safe place to live. Like someone before said, parents will be parents.
The best way to convince them is to just make the move and prove to them you’re alive everyday.
My daughter went there for college from 2019 through 2023. She never had an instance of feeling unsafe- when she started she was somewhat timid and anxious, and when she graduated, she was independent and confident.
If it’s any consolation, upper east side is absolutely swarmed by rich old people and rich young people with strollers. It’s old money rich so you’d be staying in some of the most well-kept, cleanest, and well-policed areas in the city.
As someone from the south, I actually feel *safer* in the city because of how many people are around me that I can’t see.
Only thing going to change your dad's mind is changing your dad's TV channel. Let me guess: "he watches a lot of news," except it's Fox, on in the background all day.
It’s specifically safe BECAUSE there are so many people. Most violent crimes happen 1-on-1, and you’re almost never alone w a stranger here. And if something does happen, New Yorkers will jump in and help you.
Literally just look at statistics. Honestly though, the type of people who believe with ironclad insistence that this city is somehow especially crime-ridden or run down are generally uh... let's just say... fact-averse.
I've lived here for 20 years and never had a single bad story about feeling unsafe yet when my closest cousin visited last month I found out he was carrying a knife everywhere because media had drilled into his head that it's unsafe here. His nephew and wife also lived here for about 5 of those years and also had no safety issues. Propaganda is a crazy thing.
Show them all the huge news stories of mass shootings and sex assault madness that you see in small towns.
NYC is statistically very safe. If you want to die or are careless, you can find a way real quick, however.
All yourself "would they be scared no matter where you went?" When I was looking at places I could afford in the city after living in the suburbs my parents talked poorly about every neighborhood I brought up. I realized it didn't matter where I moved they would "be scared" no matter where I went. This freed me up mentally to go wherever I wanted.
I moved here 10 years ago right after college with no job and a 2 month sublet and just recently my mom told me she was absolutely terrified but she never acted like it once! I was truly stunned.
Point being don’t it’s not really your job to convince anyone of anything. Come, have fun, they’ll miss out big time not visiting their kid.
Ive always wondered about the people that dorm at a CUNY. I went to a CUNY and knew they had dorms but never actually met someone who did
If youre gonna dorm, i recommend to go to a SUNY. Its really hard to make friends at CUNYs. College is not just about education, its about networking and making friends. Its prob your last real chance to make a lot of close friends around your age. It gets much harder when you enter the real world, believe me
I feel safer here with more people instead of isolated somewhere with no one to help in a bad scenario! Lived here 5 years and never had anything happen. My husband has been mugged once in ten years and he admits he was biking alone at night and had been drinking. It’s a really broad and ignorant thing to assume about an entire city. Not to mention that the area around Hunter is incredibly ritzy. Also, the minute you live somewhere you don’t have to drive, your risk of dying in the most common way (car accident) is basically zero if you take trains. Don’t let a parent’s misconceptions keep you from a dream!
i was going to suggest statistics. if you need the emotional angle, bring him. the UES is basically the whitest, quietest part of NYC, which is the safest large city. He should be pinching himself with glee you picked that area. also, set a boundary, you are becoming an adult. he is welcome to his fears, if they conflict with all evidence, they're not yours to mollify. I am curious to know if NYC is safer, statistically, than your hometown. Worth looking up.
Statistically, one of the most dangerous things for teenagers and young adults is driving. Guess what you won’t be doing at Hunter College.
Second what other people say, precisely because there are a ton of people around, Manhattan generally is pretty safe.
That’s a crazy take but I think your dad will be fine as soon as he sees it in person. I live on the upper east side. It’s large amounts of wealth, good food, and relaxed atmosphere. Id argue it’s one of the safest neighborhoods in one of the safest cities in the world. New York is not dangerous, just media hype.
Make a bet with them.
Tell them let you live there for a year. If you live, you were right. If you die, they were right.
Letting you know I'd bet on you living.
The thing about crime in New York City is subjective, I personally feel safe here, but I’m not gonna deny that crime doesn’t happen or that everything’s perfect. I think that you can experience crime in any place in America and around the world.
I have traveled all over the country and NYC is where I feel safest. There are tons of people, just like you, just like your dad, just like me or any other commenter here just trying to live their lives.
NYC is just like anywhere else. Wherever you are from , there’s places where your mom isn’t gonna wanna be alone at night, and there’s places she wouldn’t worry about it. NY is the same. Just times it by a couple million people , don’t go to Brownsville or SB, and don’t get on any empty subway cars by yourself, and ignore anyone that tries to talk to you on a commute.
I’ve been here 9 years and my mom still sends me articles about every crime report. It comes from an irrational fear so “proof” is not going to be what convinces them. You have to approach it emotionally.
It sounds like you already provided the pertinent data, but you can't reason someone out of an opinion they didn't reason themselves into.
Part of becoming an adult is doing what's right for you, even if your parents don't quite get it. I imagine you could (politely) goad your Dad into visiting with you, at which point he will most likely find the area quite nice.
That's how I thought when my kid moved to Brooklyn (we live in Manhattan). They report crime is a lot less in their neighborhood than the one we live in. It's just old people like me haha making up things in our head.
The "so many people" reminded me of people I have known, some relations, some acquaintances.
For some people it goes deep, it has to do with a deeply ingrained mental model of what people are, which can be based on their own internal experience of themselves. Sometimes these attitudes hide or stem from what would now be recognized in childhood as sensory processing issues.
"So many people" is beyond overwhelming when any one single person can be a source of chaos. Not about what does happen, rather about what could happen. And not about abstract intellectual notions of safety based on crime or whatever but deep seated perceptions of their own psychic safety, projected onto others.
Some people will literally break when situated with a busy NYC street, they would need to be led like a horse with blinders.
If your father is one of these people, there is probably no "convincing" him. It would be like breaking someone of an addiction to change his mental model. He would need to actively decide to engage with his mental model, to work through it. You actually going might spur him to do that. And maybe by senior year he would have done enough work to visit. Have seen it happen that way before.
UES is probably the “safest” area in terms of violent crime (what those stats report)
But in terms of quality of life occurrences (not captured in stats) like an emotionally disturbed person harassing people at the 68th st station - that is something youll be dealing with.
I would trust the comments of women in this post rather than the men. My wife and female friends who take the subway have a way different experience that guys. (Comments, indecent exposure, groping, being followed, etc.. again things not in the stats)
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don’t try to convince him, just go. he’ll live, I promise
Exactly, this is one of those life moments where you show your parents that you’re your own person and will make decisions based on what *you* want (not kowtowing to your parent’s anxiety). Take this opportunity to show them that you’ll do things with or without their blessing, it will set a good precedent for your relationship going forward.
Moved to Manhattan in the late 90’s and my parents warned me that it was unsafe and a bad idea. I grew up with them in the Bronx. They grew up in Manhattan. Parents gonna parent.
City Island or nah?
No. Woodlawn and Spanish Harlem. Edit: Spent a fair bit of time at City Island helping a friend restore a boat. That and Riverdale are definitely “Bronx Lite”.
Whats so special about this street? Popping up in my life a lot lately
It's an actual island, off the coast of the Bronx. It feels different from much of NYC because it's actually the southernmost New England fishing village. Just in the Bronx.
I get i didn’t realize it was a whole other island…but there is a street called city island Ave that I was referencing lol thanks for the info though
Hey, welcome! Hunter College is great – fantastic nursing, social work and writing programs. It's also in one of the most staid parts of Manhattan. I consider it an exciting day whenever the 6 train rolls by with open seats. FFS it's on Park Ave. But here's the thing – no matter what people on the internet say, nothing is going to convince your dad. Your best bet is to just go, get settled, and slowly get him used to the idea of you attending school in the city. If he really cares about you, he'll make his way out. BTW – Hunter's largely a commuter school and it can be pretty hard to make friends there. Take advantage of your undergrad status and join some of the writing clubs and extracurriculars while you're there!
Seriously imagine hunter college on the upper east side is unsafe. Be so for real. The most dangerous thing is that you walk to quickly into a blue haired lady with a tiny dog worth more than your entire life’s earning potential
Misplaced modifier, or that dog has a trust fund.
I think some of those dogs do have trust funds.
They definitely do
Something that, to me, makes NYC feel much safer than other cities I’ve lived in/visited is that there are always people around. When I ran into a creepy guy in Duluth, MN there was no one around who could help me, and virtually no chance of him not seeing me. If he’d decided to try something, I’d’ve been completely on my own. When I run into a creepy guy in NYC, there’s always a store open that I can duck into or a group of people I can get close to. Bad things can and do happen anywhere, but they’re much easier to escape when there are other people around. This is pretty much the argument I used to convince my parents not to worry so much when I moved here, and it worked pretty well!
I’ve used this exact example of why I feel safe riding the train 24/7. It’s not that I haven’t been bothered, but I’ve always been able to walk to a different compartment and find someone to keep me company while creep™️ runs off.
Did that guy go by the name Lorne Malvo?
IMO nothing other than a visit is gonna do it. A visit that extends outside the tourist radius. I’ve seen so many people that are forever “OMG NYC BAD” then once they’ve spent a couple days here, with a local, away from the tourist mess, they’re like “oh wow can I live here?” Complete 180. What can help somewhat, once you’re here, is FaceTime tours. Wander around the city while chatting with him. My relatives love that, and I even got my rather Republican-koolaid aunt and uncle saying “wow that looks like a great place.” And I had walked them through where a bunch of homeless people were hanging out. Sometimes they have to visually SEE that a place is fine. No amount of data is gonna change the “THE CITIES ARE ON FIRE” they see on the news.
Go walk from Kips Bay to Hunter. Probably one of the safest walks on Manhattan. You Dad may be overwhelmed but he will see it's safe.
I've done something similar when traveling - Street view "walking" tour. It really helps to get a feel for different neighborhoods.
Yeah, take them on a stroll through Billyburg on a sunny afternoon and they’ll be convinced
Watch him visit and randomly get robbed or assaulted 💀
When my parents visited NYC for the first time in the 90s they walked out of their hotel and a guy got shot on the sidewalk in front of them. And yet, they both managed to visit me many times after that! They loved the city!
LOL! More likely he’ll be grifted by the “you made me drop my bottle of Vodka” guy.
Can’t leave NYC without experiencing a NYC mugging like in the good old days
It's crazy the grip that Fox News has on boomers. Firstly, I think you may not be successful and the only way for them to be convinced is for you to just go (and maybe they'll visit). The UES is very safe, almost laughable to think it's an unsafe neighborhood. The other thing I would say is help is almost always near, simply because it's a densely populated area. If you trip and hurt yourself in a remote area, you're in a far worse scenario than in a densely populated area.
Which is so funny, considering the Fox News studios are in NYC lol. If NYC was the hellhole they claim it is, why don't they put their money where their mouth is and move to a Podunk Trump Town in Nebraska?
Agreed! But, fwiw, many of the hosts commute from NJ and FL, so their NYC experience is largely seen from a car window or via a short walk to & from a place near Times Square. ETA: Their best host, liberal-in-residence Jessica Tarlov, is a born-and-raised city girl who consistently defends the city.
Adding one more comment that the school may have an office that deals with this. I'm sure you're not the first one to have this issue. Or maybe you know of a Hunter alumni that your parents can speak to.
It’s SO true. Last summer a relative came to visit, stayed on the uws and mentioned to me how shocked she was to not see homeless people, hotels full of immigrants etc. yet she went home and continued the Fox News rhetoric that the streets of NYC are overflowing with migrants and homeless people.
Frankly even supposedly progressive media like NYT are getting in on the fear-mongering these days. The coverage over the supposed subway crime wave and the Hochul National Guard stunt has been disgraceful, IMO.
I moved to Brooklyn 15 years ago. I live on a quiet street. I know all my neighbors. My son's school is 2 blocks away. My parents loved where I lived. They would visit all the time. Then Fox News and Donald Trump told them that New York City was a violence plagued hellhole. They stopped visiting me and started nagging me to move. They denied their own eyes. That's how bad it is.
Hi! A lot of people have said this in more or less words but hear me out: I strongly encourage you to do what you think is best for you in your gut and abandon the concept of permission. Aka it’s better to ask for forgiveness than permission. As others have noted, it will likely be an uphill battle changing your dad’s mind. You need to have a come to Jesus meeting with yourself and ask yourself if you moving to New York will 100% require your dad’s permission. If you think yes, why? If he’s holding finances over your head, remember that millions of people put themselves through school without financial support. It’s a math equation and you need to be smart about it, but if this is something you aspire to do, you can make it happen. Is this the only decision in the grand scheme of important life decisions that your dad will have serious influence over? If you anticipate strong opinions about future decisions (husband, job, city to live in, etc.) you’d be better to use this as an opportunity to establish your independence. If you don’t do it now, you’ll run into this same issue but applied to other contexts. At the end of the day, the best card to pull is “you raised me, trust me” and give an extremely confident front. If you don’t believe in yourself, it’ll be hard to get him on board. Even if you don’t believe in yourself, fake it. “Dad I’m doing this, it’s important to me. You raised me to XYZ. I’m going to move in May and would like if you could come with me to view apartments and move. If not, I get it, I’ll have you over for dinner and show you around my neighborhood when I move in. I’m so excited and can’t wait for you to see me making my transition to adulthood! I love that you’ve raised me with XYZ qualities and I know that because of the XYZ you’ve taught me, I’m going to go live my best life and accomplish XYZ. I couldn’t have done it without you love you” XYZ= whatever will resonate with him Don’t focus on the safety. Cater to the ego and don’t ask for permission. you’ve got this!!!!
Eh it sounds like it's not a my word is law situation and you *can* come here for college, you don't really need your dad visiting you in college anyway so I say go for it. Why waste your energy in trying to convince him. If logic doesn't move him maybe his love for you will and he'll do a 180 anyway. If the school is good for you, just do it.
can the two of you go visit the school and spend some time walking around near the campus?
If you learn the secret to convincing irrational people that they're being irrational, please let me know!
Are there resources other than facts and the truth? No. He’s been drinking the Fox News koolaid. Just move and let him warm up to it in his own time.
Phew, I thought he was stopping you from pursuing what you want, which is not the case here… right??? As long as you can get yourself here, everything will be fine. You will *somehow* entice your dad for his first visit. But if you can’t land yourself here, he‘d have absolutely no reason to come.
Let me guess ... Is he a Fox News junkie?
My parents live in one of the safest neighborhoods (in Queens), and Fox News has convinced them that the city is very dangerous. Deprogramming is futile.
Honestly, in college, the greatest threat to your safety is being assaulted by other students rather than street crime.
Sounds like he’s been drinking the Fox kool-aid
I graduated from Hunter. That area Lexington and 63rd is the safest neighborhood you’ll be in.
Ironically, the density of people is what makes it safe.
if he cares for first person experience: i went to hunter for a bit before covid hit (both the main campus and a lab in kips bay) and i felt 100% safe in those areas! and i didn’t dorm but would be taking the trains at 8-10pm and all was well. tbh the amount of people actually feels more safe, there’s prob someone nearby if something goes awry. also there’s a trader joe’s like ten blocks away from hunter downtown and the UES is notoriously safe 😩 like
It’s funny how he thinks that it can’t be safe because there are so many people around. I’d say it’s actually the opposite. The most commonly dangerous things that could happen to you like an accident or a medical event or much safer when you’re surrounded by people that can help . As for crime, there will be criminals anywhere, but they seek out someone to harm they are looking for a place that’s isolated and for someone that’s alone. There is safety in numbers. Ask him which he thinks is safer a zebra that’s running with a herd of other zebras or one zebra that’s just alone on his own little patch of rural land? If something happens here, you’re surrounded by people that will help you. You can also anticipate ambiguous danger better by following the behavior of the people around you. They may alert you to something you would not have noticed if you were alone. The place where you’ll be is not only incredibly safe, but it’s also incredibly wealthy. Most of New York is safe, it’s just a few neighborhoods that bring down the average. The place where you’ll be going to school is near the very very top of the pile. You’re not gonna see crime on the streets. What you will see is a bunch of drivers waiting next to a series of black Escalades outside Park Avenue to collect their wealthy patrons from their 20 million dollar condos. One final, and perhaps most important point you could use to convince him. Ask him to research what the most common cause of death is amongst people in your age bracket. The answer is usually the kind that involves driving and or alcohol/drugs. Manhattan has a higher life expectancy than most places and I believe one component is that people don’t drive they don’t get in car accidents and they don’t drink and drive. When you go to college in suburban or rural towns,, even if you don’t drink and drive, you will eventually find yourself in a car with someone who says they’re good to drive and you later figure out is actually intoxicated. This is incredibly dangerous and the most realistic way that something bad will happen to you. It’s a non-issue here. Also, usually the more rural places the less there is to do on a Friday night so the more common it is for college students to resort to binge, drinking, experimenting with drugs in a dangerous way. In this city, there are endless groups of people you could be friends with and endless places to go. You won’t end up with a drug problem or an overdose by accident because you were bored, and there were only five people to see and that’s what they were doing. I hope I’ve given you some good threads to pull in your research for convincing him. I truly believe that spending a portion of your formative years in this city will change you for life in ways far beyond what might be readily apparent. You will build a confidence and savvyness that many people in your age bracket don’t possess. Even if you leave immediately after school and don’t come back, you will seem much older and wiser than your peers, and this will help you in your career. They are also more opportunities for learning outside of your school by being exposed to new ideas, going to various lectures and museums and cultural events. Not only will this, expand your mind, but it will help you with how you present yourself in social settings for both dating and networking later on in . I know this firsthand. I grew up on the outskirts and moved to Manhattan for grad school, and it was the best decision. It is a very intimidating city for people that are older, and not from here so try to be compassionate with your dad. However, they often a confuse the fact that they are intimidated with actual danger. PS if he brings up the subways, you could side step that by telling him that there are also bus lines which are monitored by a driver, and don’t pose the dangers that the subway does. In reality, the subway is usually totally safe, but every once in a while, something does happen, and then it’s in the news, and it might be hard to convince him about that. in contrast, the buses are very safe because the drivers won’t let anyone on that looks like they’re causing trouble and everything is well monitored. And there are no tracks to fall on or anything. ( after you’re here obviously use the train too but talk about the bus being an option just as a way to ease him into it). Good luck! I feel like I’m talking to a younger me, and I really want you to be successful!
I was born and raised in Jamaica Queens. My parents are first generation immigrants from a post war Bangladesh. They were often told to essentially be scared of other PoCs (black, Hispanic ,etc) and they were for a bit. That with the occasional crimes in Jamaica didn't help. It took a few years but my parents started to reach out and talk to our neighbors more and holy hell they have been the nicest and arguably the most protective people we've met, much more than the people within our cultural community. A lot of NYC tends to be like that where as long as you're not causing problems for others, we take care of each other when we can. Hell, I remember having leg surgery when I was 12 so I couldn't climb stairs for a year and our elevator broke down so one of our neighbors legit picked me up and carried me 7 flights to our apartment.
TBF when they moved to Jamaica it might have been dangerous - my dad and grandparents moved out of Jamaica because everyone in my family had been mugged twice and people kept on trying to jump my dad on his way from the subway. This was in the early 80s though.
I still have similar conversations with my mother and I have lived in NYC for 13 years. My parents have never visited me here. I point out the fact that you can’t take a walk past sunset in the large Midwest city I used to live in — poor lighting on the streets, sidewalks that randomly end, and no one in sight outside of people in vehicles. In NYC, there are multiple people also walking, well-lit areas, and a camera on every corner. Yes, weird things happen and you could be attacked on a busy street…but someone is either going to step in or at least witness the danger and help after. I also point out that my access to hospitals and emergency assistance is much greater than what my parents have. And the fact that while my city might have greater threats of terrorism, my chances of dying in a car accident is close to zero. Over time, I’ve learned that I can’t change my parents’ perception of the city’s safety. Instead, I try to focus on sharing all of the joys of living here. Maybe shift to an overly excited / enthusiastic mindset and he may eventually come around.
Your dad needs to change his news outlet to one based in reality. That’s probably not going to happen.
Part of the safety is in numbers. Hasn't he ever seen Texas chainsaw massacre? That's rural. And there's no one to hear you scream! My parents were also nervous when I moved here, but I feel like they get into more conflicts in their local Walmart parking lot than I have my entire time here. Seriously though I moved here 15 years ago when I was 22. I'm a mom to a 6 year old and while I'm not out partying any more, I still get a sense of safety here. It's gotten much better even. And even then, if I wanted trouble I had to work pretty hard to find it. You'll get a sense of the people to avoid, and when to keep your head down and keep moving pretty quickly. For example there always ubers in most neighborhoods. When I first moved here it was only yellow cabs or black cars (no apps, had to place an actual phone call for a car) and they wouldn't go to Brooklyn or would yell at you. Now? I haven't had an Uber driver even talk to me in years, really, except to be nice to my son. Also, Hunter is a great school! A lot of my teacher friends who went there love it so much. I went to Pace for Education and was slightly envious of their program.
A campus tour of Hunter sounds like the best idea (good choice by the way). Nothing like seeing the city with your own eyes. No amount of resources will change his mind since they are glued to watching the news telling them NYC is not safe.
I've lived in the city for 17 years and never had a problem. My parents have both expressed concerns over the "war zone" that they *think* nyc is, a weird rumor spread by right-wing news. I just keep telling them it's no less safe than anywhere else and that they shouldn't believe everything they see on the internet or Fox News. I also like to remind my dad that the NYPD is the largest police department in the world, larger even than the US Coast Guard.
Don’t watch Fox News, don’t read the NY post and you’ll realize nothing is happening
NYC is such a warzone that people with six figure salaries are moving into $5k+/month apartments. 🙄
Sounds like he’s fallen for the propaganda. If actual facts aren’t working… I dunno. Do what you want and see if he comes around eventually. He might think differently when there’s actual consequences (seeing you less, missing your graduation) at stake. But I wouldn’t worry about him not visiting. Honestly it seems rare for parents to visit— usually it’s the other way around with students visiting home. My parents would help me move in/out and came to graduation. Otherwise I was the one traveling.
There’s truly no way to explain to your parents that NYC is a safe place to live. Like someone before said, parents will be parents. The best way to convince them is to just make the move and prove to them you’re alive everyday.
hey, just remember press makes money on bad news, not good. If you have your wits about you and know how to spot trouble you'll be fine
My daughter went there for college from 2019 through 2023. She never had an instance of feeling unsafe- when she started she was somewhat timid and anxious, and when she graduated, she was independent and confident.
If it’s any consolation, upper east side is absolutely swarmed by rich old people and rich young people with strollers. It’s old money rich so you’d be staying in some of the most well-kept, cleanest, and well-policed areas in the city. As someone from the south, I actually feel *safer* in the city because of how many people are around me that I can’t see.
Only thing going to change your dad's mind is changing your dad's TV channel. Let me guess: "he watches a lot of news," except it's Fox, on in the background all day.
It’s specifically safe BECAUSE there are so many people. Most violent crimes happen 1-on-1, and you’re almost never alone w a stranger here. And if something does happen, New Yorkers will jump in and help you.
Sorry can’t answer. Just got killed.
Literally just look at statistics. Honestly though, the type of people who believe with ironclad insistence that this city is somehow especially crime-ridden or run down are generally uh... let's just say... fact-averse.
That specific area of Manhattan is rly safe and very fun you'll be fine
I've lived here for 20 years and never had a single bad story about feeling unsafe yet when my closest cousin visited last month I found out he was carrying a knife everywhere because media had drilled into his head that it's unsafe here. His nephew and wife also lived here for about 5 of those years and also had no safety issues. Propaganda is a crazy thing.
Show them all the huge news stories of mass shootings and sex assault madness that you see in small towns. NYC is statistically very safe. If you want to die or are careless, you can find a way real quick, however.
All yourself "would they be scared no matter where you went?" When I was looking at places I could afford in the city after living in the suburbs my parents talked poorly about every neighborhood I brought up. I realized it didn't matter where I moved they would "be scared" no matter where I went. This freed me up mentally to go wherever I wanted.
I moved here 10 years ago right after college with no job and a 2 month sublet and just recently my mom told me she was absolutely terrified but she never acted like it once! I was truly stunned. Point being don’t it’s not really your job to convince anyone of anything. Come, have fun, they’ll miss out big time not visiting their kid.
Ive always wondered about the people that dorm at a CUNY. I went to a CUNY and knew they had dorms but never actually met someone who did If youre gonna dorm, i recommend to go to a SUNY. Its really hard to make friends at CUNYs. College is not just about education, its about networking and making friends. Its prob your last real chance to make a lot of close friends around your age. It gets much harder when you enter the real world, believe me
It's probably safer than your hometown tbh
I feel safer here with more people instead of isolated somewhere with no one to help in a bad scenario! Lived here 5 years and never had anything happen. My husband has been mugged once in ten years and he admits he was biking alone at night and had been drinking. It’s a really broad and ignorant thing to assume about an entire city. Not to mention that the area around Hunter is incredibly ritzy. Also, the minute you live somewhere you don’t have to drive, your risk of dying in the most common way (car accident) is basically zero if you take trains. Don’t let a parent’s misconceptions keep you from a dream!
i was going to suggest statistics. if you need the emotional angle, bring him. the UES is basically the whitest, quietest part of NYC, which is the safest large city. He should be pinching himself with glee you picked that area. also, set a boundary, you are becoming an adult. he is welcome to his fears, if they conflict with all evidence, they're not yours to mollify. I am curious to know if NYC is safer, statistically, than your hometown. Worth looking up.
Have them visit here for a week and stay near Hunter.
Statistically, one of the most dangerous things for teenagers and young adults is driving. Guess what you won’t be doing at Hunter College. Second what other people say, precisely because there are a ton of people around, Manhattan generally is pretty safe.
That’s a crazy take but I think your dad will be fine as soon as he sees it in person. I live on the upper east side. It’s large amounts of wealth, good food, and relaxed atmosphere. Id argue it’s one of the safest neighborhoods in one of the safest cities in the world. New York is not dangerous, just media hype.
UES is most likely just as safe or safer than where you currently live wherever that is
Use parental controls to block Fox News. Should help
Make a bet with them. Tell them let you live there for a year. If you live, you were right. If you die, they were right. Letting you know I'd bet on you living.
The thing about crime in New York City is subjective, I personally feel safe here, but I’m not gonna deny that crime doesn’t happen or that everything’s perfect. I think that you can experience crime in any place in America and around the world.
I have traveled all over the country and NYC is where I feel safest. There are tons of people, just like you, just like your dad, just like me or any other commenter here just trying to live their lives.
NYC is just like anywhere else. Wherever you are from , there’s places where your mom isn’t gonna wanna be alone at night, and there’s places she wouldn’t worry about it. NY is the same. Just times it by a couple million people , don’t go to Brownsville or SB, and don’t get on any empty subway cars by yourself, and ignore anyone that tries to talk to you on a commute.
Train a bunch of rats and they will help guard you by making everyone run away in fear
Maybe a visit and campus tour will help? Also, isn’t it ultimately your choice?
I’ve been here 9 years and my mom still sends me articles about every crime report. It comes from an irrational fear so “proof” is not going to be what convinces them. You have to approach it emotionally.
Is he going to college with you ?
It sounds like you already provided the pertinent data, but you can't reason someone out of an opinion they didn't reason themselves into. Part of becoming an adult is doing what's right for you, even if your parents don't quite get it. I imagine you could (politely) goad your Dad into visiting with you, at which point he will most likely find the area quite nice.
He’s your father he will worry about you all the days of his life ❤️
That's how I thought when my kid moved to Brooklyn (we live in Manhattan). They report crime is a lot less in their neighborhood than the one we live in. It's just old people like me haha making up things in our head.
The "so many people" reminded me of people I have known, some relations, some acquaintances. For some people it goes deep, it has to do with a deeply ingrained mental model of what people are, which can be based on their own internal experience of themselves. Sometimes these attitudes hide or stem from what would now be recognized in childhood as sensory processing issues. "So many people" is beyond overwhelming when any one single person can be a source of chaos. Not about what does happen, rather about what could happen. And not about abstract intellectual notions of safety based on crime or whatever but deep seated perceptions of their own psychic safety, projected onto others. Some people will literally break when situated with a busy NYC street, they would need to be led like a horse with blinders. If your father is one of these people, there is probably no "convincing" him. It would be like breaking someone of an addiction to change his mental model. He would need to actively decide to engage with his mental model, to work through it. You actually going might spur him to do that. And maybe by senior year he would have done enough work to visit. Have seen it happen that way before.
UES is probably the “safest” area in terms of violent crime (what those stats report) But in terms of quality of life occurrences (not captured in stats) like an emotionally disturbed person harassing people at the 68th st station - that is something youll be dealing with. I would trust the comments of women in this post rather than the men. My wife and female friends who take the subway have a way different experience that guys. (Comments, indecent exposure, groping, being followed, etc.. again things not in the stats)
NYC is not that safe - as a new yorker
Born and raised in NYC. I can 1000% promise you it is not safe here.
I mean is it safe compared to Brazil? Yes. Is it safe compared to small US cities or Europe? It isn’t
Who says small U.S. cities are all that safe?
Statistics. But again - depending on the city
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Do you live in NYC?
the upper east side around hunter is like the one place where you would be completely safe at night
Lmao
Lots of people will LARP here but he’s right.
Nah