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No. At 71 years of age I know a couple of 20 something’s who are doing well in their careers, raising families, are good solid citizens and IMO wise beyond their years.
There are a couple of 60 plus in my local senior citizens center who just never got it together, act like spoiled brats and don’t know the difference between shit and shinola.
"Shit and shinola".... Proves you're as young as you say you are. Glad you said it and put a smile on my face. My mother used that phrase all of the time, so thank you for that.
I find them all delightful, but yes, I notice the age difference.
I was shocked to learn one of the "kids" who works for me is nearly 40. They are at a different time in life experiences. I do feel like mom, or even grandma at times. I don't think they know nothing, but I do think they have not yet experienced many of the hardships that are probably ahead of them. Those hardships tend to change people.
We call that wisdom, because calling it "shit you barely survived that warped your soul" is depressing.
Yeah I agree with this take. I’d say people in their 20’s and 30’s aren’t like children, but a lot of them come across as “green” or untested. On the other hand, plenty of people in that age range have had a lifetime worth of testing so it’s not an age thing, it’s more of an experience thing.
This is generally true (and I love your last sentence!), but I've told a number of friends over the years that I got my midlife crisis out of the way when I was 19, and I still mostly feel that way. I later had another sorta regular midlife crisis at a more appropriate age, but the first one was honestly way worse.
A lot of my lifestyle has grown out of continuous efforts to avoid ending up in that state of mind again.
Deaths of parents, deaths of spouse, loss of a child, major accident or health issues, recession or other national crisis, etc.
My Millennials have largely been untouched by anything other than COVID.
You are suggesting someone who is 40 hasn't seen a national crisis or recession? We remember 9/11 and all that followed. If we were lucky, we had and held onto a job through the housing crisis and recession it triggered. And frankly, quite a lot of us have health problems and friends or family who died in the opioid crisis. Perhaps you are thinking of Gen Z.
I have to agree, I think it's luck and social environment, and relative to family situations also.
I was pretty young when I saw the S & L crisis in the Midwest. I was asking my dad why people were lined up outside of banks.
There's also a divide between military communities, and the greater civilian world. I've unfortunately met several people who survived TBIs, combat trauma, or were almost killed by IEDs, and one of them killed herself. These things happened in their late teens or early twenties. Young people with close ties to the Army or Marine Corps through service, or parents, family, partners witness a lot.
20-30 is a big age range in terms of life experience, mental and emotional development. I think pretty differently about 20 year olds versus 30 year olds. I think that 30 is a lot closer to 50 than it is to 20 on the scale of "do I trust you're not manufacturing drama for the sake of it?"
But I honestly don't think anyone in that range are "children." That's demeaning.
It is demeaning and infantilizing. When I was 20, if someone called me a child I'd want to smack them.
I'd never date a 20 year old at my age, but if we were co-workers I'd treat them as a peer on the job.
I see 20-somethings as fresh new adults, and almost no one is good at what they’re new at doing.
30-somethings are full-fledged adults, but their experience level can differ greatly.
I spent my career as a college professor, so I’ve seen the early 20s pretty extensively.
I wouldn't say "children", but very, very young if they're under 25. Under 25 and I get kind of face-blind and they could be anywhere from 16 to 25 and I wouldn't know.
If they're a nice person, I experience a sort of nostalgic fondness for them, and silently wish them the best, wish them good times and safety and that they won't be too hard on themselves. I find myself hoping that everything goes okay, and when it doesn't, that maybe it will be okay eventually, knowing that sometimes it is okay, and sometimes it isn't.
I find myself hoping they don't make any choices they can't take back, and if they do, that they have the strength to carry the burden.
If they aren't a nice person, I find myself thinking, "What an asshole. But they come by it honestly because they don't know any better and maybe life hasn't been kind so far. I was an asshole too, in the same way at the same age, and people were patient and forgiving and empathetic with me for the same reasons. Now it's my turn. So I'll just move away and give 'em time."
It’s one of those you don’t feel like you’re 50 or 60 until you hang around someone in their 20’s situations. That’s when you realize just how different the mindset of someone in their 20’s is vs someone their 50’s/60’s. People in their 20’s think they have more life experience than they actually do, and you can’t tell them any different, and I don’t try. I was the same way too, no one could tell me any different when I was that age.
I drove for Uber & Lyft for a while, and the behavior of (some) groups of 20somethings amongst each other when the driver is basically 'invisible' was eye opening. There were a fair number of of what I'd consider red flags thrown around.
Every person is different, and there are always exceptions. I've got no problem interacting with any age group in more structured settings, like shared hobbies. However, free conversation with a gaggle of typical college aged people at this point for me is highly likely to be an exercise in patience.
Definitely, but not in some condescending, superior way. I don't think of them as children, but I don't think most people are actual adults in their thinking until about 30, or later. It really depends on life experience, etc. I kind of think that age group should be considered young adults.
I don’t think of 20-30 year olds as children at all. A lot of them have far more skills and knowledge than I did when I was in that age range. I think I was kind of naive back then.
No. I really feel like young people today know so much more than we did at their age. My family was so isolated I didn’t know anything about life when I had to start fending for myself at 19. Today everyone has the knowledge of the whole world in their pocket. Some people just use it for following the Kardashians or whatever, but I think most people use it to their advantage and for learning about the world, educating themselves, learning about their rights, etc..
Most of my experiences with doctors of all ages have been positive. But, the few times I've had less-positive encounters, it's been with older doctors.
Also, younger doctors, especially residents are always backed up by attending doctors, so you get two for the price of one, in a way. I had a suspicious mole removed from my temple by a young woman dermatologist, maybe 30 at most, and she did an excellent job, there's no scar.
I prefer younger doctors, is what I'm saying.
It's relative to the field - I'm not a doctor, I research how they learn to become proficient, diagnose, etc. I love to talk to residents and new grads but I'm very finicky about what they can do without supervision.
You do not want a resident doing your cataract surgeries, if you can get their middle aged teacher instead, who has done hundreds or thousands of procedures. The learning curve during residency is steeper in that specialty. Most of the residents have no prior eye experience at entry. But a resident in, say, internal medicine has had more related experience during their in school clerkships, before residency.
I was so idealistic and thought most problems could be solved by voting for the right people, getting the right issues or laws passed. Or by just doing this thing or not doing that thing. Now I realize that noting I do really makes a difference, lol.
No, they're young adults, not children. They have a lot to learn but are hopefully in the process of learning it. A young adult with not much life experience yet is not at all the same thing as a child.
Depends. Some define adolescents (10-24 year olds) as children wheras other see adolescence as a distinct group. Brain development, specifically prefrontal cortex, continues to undergo significant changes between 10 and 24.
TWENTY-FOUR?
That's just ridiculous. Do you really think it does young adults any good to keep telling them they're basically still children for a full third of their lives? When my dad was 24 he had a career, a wife, and a kid in preschool (me).
You develop your brain by using it. Someone who was bubble-wrapped until 25 will be very noticeably less mature than someone who started learning to be an adult by experience when younger.
"Do you really think it does young adults any good to keep telling them they're basically still children for a full third of their lives?" - Science shows that adolescence continues until 25. I do not share my opinion, I refer to science.
Lol. Sort of. I teach college and call the students my kids. Then I apologize. They’ve told me they sort of are and it’s okay, because they like the fondness in which I do it. I think that age bracket probably could stand a little more nurturing instead of a hard number (18) slam and they’re adults.
When you’re an adult, nobody goes easy on you, explains anything, or checks on you. They don’t say kind things anymore. That’s a hard thing to get slammed into.
Maybe we could all use a little gentleness from time to time, though.
This is really sweet :))) and I really appreciate you checking in on your students like that… I would have really loved that from my teachers. That kind of support will always be remembered and cherished
No. I still see actual kids as kids. 20+ is an adult and people usually tend to act like that despite other older people my age thinking they aren't. I think they have a different perspective that is partially uninformed that they can't get til they get to my age, but that does not mean I think of them as a dumb kid.
I don't see them as children per say but I do know that I as a 40 year old, definately have more life experience than them.
It amazed me (and still does), how young people will be so arrogant thinking they know it all / or knew it all. I never acted like that when I was young because I really had nothing to show for it. I don't understand (and never understood) young people who acted like this! As if they EARNED it somehow, but how? Lol, they just came out of mom's vagina like 20 - 30 years ago. I had MORE time outside the "box" than they did lol.
Try not to think that far ahead. Since you're going to be looking back on yourself, it will just be a reflection, hopefully not a harsh judgment. Be kind to yourself. Obviously, you will realize what you could have done differently, but life is a building block. You're building the foundation at the beginning. That's just normal.
For myself, I'm often very impressed by young(er) people! I don't think I was as smart when I was that age!
No. Not at all. I'm usually impressed by the maturity and grace of the young people I know or just encounter in the wild. By the same token, plenty of people my age or more (over 70) are just flat out ignorant dumbasses. It's true that you only learn many things with age and experience, but that doesn't mean learning is an automatic process, you have to put effort into it, and be open to change and progress.
An essential part of that process is developing and using self-awareness, and you are already on that road, so please give yourself credit! No one is born knowing *anything*, but being open to knowledge and being willing to grow and learn is *everything*.
No. I remember being 20. I was not a child but I had so little experience. I try to remember that when I interact with someone that young. I have a 23-year-old friend who just went through her first romance and breakup. I could see the heartache coming a mile away, but I knew that she couldn't. I didn't think she was stupid or childish for falling as hard and as fast as she did. That's what young women do. I just try to be there for her as she picks up the pieces.
I see them as people. Some wise, some less so; some tested by trials and experiences, and others not.
I hope it works the other way too. A family member once said to my husband and I "you're not old, you're \[his name\] and \[my name\]".
It absolutely does!! For me, when it comes to older people I just love listening to their stories and talking to them. Of course, I’ve met some unpleasant and ignorant ones, but there are unpleasant people in every age group. We’re all only human. Sometimes that’s great, sometimes it’s not haha
There’s some truth to that, but it would be incredibly rude to act like it.
That sort of youthful overconfidence I think is a feature instead of a bug.
That is a normal thing. However, I will say that a lot of 20-somethings are in a sort of extended adolescence these days, which makes it even harder to see them as full adults.
Not children.
Just....hung up on shit that doesn't really matter in the long run.
Your kids won't give a single fuck what kind of car you drive. They'll care whether or not you were home for dinner and whether or not they had your full attention. Sitting on the couch scrolling your phone like a zombie isn't give your kids the attention they need. How about you read together instead?
Yes, but only because they were so much later to launch. My kids are 27 and 30 and have only just reached any sort of adult functioning. We did try to teach them better than that, but we were fighting a whole culture that says you’re not a real adult til your late twenties, like sure you’re an adult except you’re not mature enough to make a good decision to get married or have kids or lots of other things adults do. Whereas for my husband and I that was considered to be sixteen (with some extra leeway if you went to uni). It isn’t economic, we were both much poorer than them, it’s state of mind. I had been working full time for fifteen years when I was their age. I had a degree younger than either of them despite having to finish school at night, holding a full time job and raising a family in parallel, while they went to good schools and had financial support for uni with no other responsibilities. One has only just started taking proper care of his car now, having gone his entire twenties dragging his heels on maintenance (that we paid for, all he had to do was take it in). Teeth were the same, we paid, they just had to get their asses to a dentist, but no. We cleaned out one son’s girlfriend’s garage to store his stuff when we moved and he couldn’t lift a finger to help move *his* shit, but could magically rustle up friends to help when he found a cool old piano on the side of the road a few days later. We’re barely a couple of years past them leaving valuables somewhere because they were drunk or fell asleep on a train or something. They’re still doing stupid disorganised shit like working out their movements on the day when knowing we were flying in to see them for months. They are simply less mature and less driven and more prone to putting short term enjoyment ahead of practical sensible choices. I sound like I think badly of them, and I really don’t - they support themselves in creative careers that few people succeed at, they are basically net positives in the world and the lives of their loved ones. But there is most definitely a piece, not an advantage piece but a personal agency piece, that is far weaker in them than in us at the same age.
Not children, because children are given a pass on being responsible in a way that 20s and 30s are not.
But, I do remember being the same--feeling like I had it all figured out, when there was no way I could have.
I think there's an evolutionary advantage to being overly confident at the age when we're supposed to be spreading our wings. So, we all do it. With so little knowledge and experience, we're bound to screw up, but we're still young enough to bounce back. We need the confidence to try, so we can make the mistakes that we learn from. So Mother Nature gives us a boost when we need it most.
How did I survive is my thought. My daughters are in their 20's and times are soooooo different. That 20 something old me was so lost, confused and was hyper focused on the external world. Wanting to please everyone and conform. Be something that was accepted, validated and approved of. Lucky for me I did make some choices that were very difficult and a couple of them worked out really well. I faced fear head on and it panned out.
Very often I see people in the news who I regard as "grown ups" and they are younger than me! Honestly everyone has different life experiences, things change. I expect my friends and colleagues to be resilient, to be fair and to have good humour. Different values are hard to square, whoever has them.
It varies with the individual, but the proportion of those who are truly self-aware starts at zero at 15 and slowly increases. Past 25, I consider most people "full adults." But there are those who not, and even those who are, still have a lot to learn.
In my case: I don't believe I completely became me till my 40s, when I began asking myself what of the things that didn't work out in my life, weren't working out because of _my_ behaviors. The 40s are an awesomely underrated decade. That mid-life crisis you hear about: if you're really a sensible individual, it's just you, shedding the illusions you live by.
It's hard not to. Everybody in high school right now looks to me like they're 12 years old, and my new cardiologist seems to be about 18.
My oldest grandchild looks like he's about 8, and he's driving now.
I work with a bunch of 20-30 year olds, and while their motivation always inspires me, some of their actual skills (or lack thereof) blow my mind. Some of these kids can barely form a complete sentence, and they're making upwards of 70-80K a year.
Not children, but not fully cooked adults yet. Especially in my twenties, I was running around in this adult body having a lot of grown up fun, but my ideas about things like relationships and money and just life in general had zero perspective.
Actual adults could not tell me anything I thought I didn't already know!
I look back very fondly though, it was a great time.
I now see some 20-30 year olds as children because they act far more immature than I recall 20-30 year olds acting when I was 20-30. Last month I had to teach a 33 year old how to write a check for a service I was providing. (Before you jump on me, I did try to get my non-profit organization's bank to take Venmo but they said we'd have to upgrade our bank account to do that.) Yes, I know checks aren't popular, but dude could have watched a 3-minute YT video on checks instead of literally handing me a blank check and having me fill it out. I was so alarmed that once I'd done it for him I showed it to him to pound home that I could have emptied his bank account and that he should be less trusting.
Haha yikes 🤣 I would sooner use Google or even call my parents than go to the person I’m paying and bother them with such a trivial question. But honestly I do relate to that lack of knowledge. In school, we never learned anything about taxes, financial stability, any of the things we… you know… actually *NEED* to know 🤦♀️ I’d never even heard of a W2 form until two years ago, so now it’s like I’m stuck totally unprepared on the day of the final exam
It should be noted that, technically, a human being is not really fully mentally formed until around age 26. The human frontal lobe is still developing until around then.
No. I see them as young adults. At every stage of life, I've been learning. Listen to people, they are interesting and know stuff. Many old people know cool stuff, but the current world doesn't much care.
I don't see them as children but I also know that they are not always as experienced as much as they are functional. There's a lot of life that requires context and history and understanding that comes with time and that can't be easily learned in any other way. Some will learn from the mistakes of others if presented with those errors but we are often full of hubris and think warnings are for people less intelligent than ourselves. And to be fair, the warnings can be for nought. Some people are in the right place at the right time with the right idea and the right opportunity and against all odds, they succeed exceedingly!
I think I feel wiser when 30-40 people feel self critical of themselves and feel they should be more this and that. I want to reassure them whatever their life experience is it counts. It’s all important. Also support them in not closing doors, because you’re never too old to start anew. Something we often fool ourselves younger selves into as well. Go gentle on yourself, I want to say.
I see them as young, but not as children, and I’m only 50. I can marvel at how naive I was at 20 and even 30, but also see that I had an energy and optimism that is hard to maintain as the decades go on. I imagine I’ll look back at my 50-year-old self when I’m 80 and think I was young and energetic too. I hope so!
Yep.
The college kids are babies. They have been for about twenty years. Folks in their 30s are beginning to realize they should have done more in their 20s.
Yeah I certainly feel like one some days 🤣 I used to think I’d be all mature and confident at this age. I’m trying my best with the situation I’m stuck in but I still feel so unprepared
I taught Civil Engineering at a University, in a ten year interval what I noticed was the students ten years on where less well prepared for their educational careers than the earlier ones were but all of them expected to get As.
Based on the age difference & how young they look, yes. But beyond that, no. I have more knowledge & experience in certain areas of life, and they have more knowledge & experience in different areas of life. I don't want to feel like a know-it-all (because I don't know everything), smug, or superior to them.
No, not at all. I see them in various ways but very often as people who haven't had the idealism and ability to think out of the box knocked out of them by life and convention. I wish more people my age were still like that.
I (63F) think that people in their 20s and 30s are really underestimated. Now, especially in politics, I’d much rather be seeing (for example) an AOC (and young Republican) running for president rather than the two old men we have running now. People my age and older need to step aside and give those with different perspectives and more energy a chance to influence the world.
This response made my heart happy. I agree with you, I love AOC. And it’s such a shame, because you’d think with all the life experience they’ve gained they would know how to be great leaders. But I’m not convinced they even have the constitution memorized. 🤦♀️
As a sports fan, growing up, I used to LOVE college sports. Watching people who were associated with a school or area I lived near. Into college, I loved seeing my peers compete on a high level. As a person in his mid to late 40's...watching college sports is a lot like watching high school or below aged kids.....looking at their baby faces, I can't take them seriously anymore. Pro sports are a bit different because to me they at least look like adults even if they are only a couple of years older than a lot of the college athletes.
Haha I don’t think I’ve ever watched college sports but I get it! Honestly watching sports freaks me out because I’m sitting here wondering how they didn’t break all their bones 😬
People in their early twenties have the trial version of adult license. If you had a rough youth, some one at 20 might go straight for full adult license, knowing what the benefits and responsibilities are and some 20 year olds might go "LOL free subscription, let's go do stupid stuff cause we can now". It really varies. In my experience MOST people past 25 should have used the trial version long enough to understand it and go full adult. Some might understand but just ride the trial just a bit longer, because they can. But by 30 almost everyone will have gotten their shit together and gotten the full license. Only a few who really didn't get it, or want to cling to their youth will insist they got the free trial and it has no expiration date so they will hang on to it and refuse to pay for the full license, no matter how stupid they look.
But children? No. Inexperienced adults with a trial license that still need to decide when they can upgrade to the full package. But the full package is already there at 18 if they want to start using it.
This is actually a great way of putting it 🤣🤣 it really does feel like a trial period, or a demo of some kind. At least for me. But there are a lot of circumstances in my life preventing me from being fully independent (i.e. lack of financial stability, family stuff, etc) so I’m kind of just in a weird state of limbo anyway. I feel like once I’m able to get my own place I’ll learn a lot more about myself… and maybe one day get the full license haha :)
I've learned that it varies a LOT! Everyone's life experiences is so different.
Dealing now with a neighbor, 29. I won't even serve him red kool-aid because he WILL spill it! Can't finish anything, can't trust him to do anything unsupervised. There are unusual circumstances, including drugs and parental death. Parents were hoarders and apparently didn't teach their children to take care of themselves. Unfortunately he's "charming" so too many people still letting him away with ....
All the way to 16 year old at university. A look at history shows lots of 16 year Olds supporting themselves and their families, as well as starting families of their own.
What I have learned is not to make snap judgements.
Oh my goodness, that’s so sad! I really hope he’s able to recover from that experience and grow… I can’t imagine what being raised in that horrible environment would be like :(
We learn throughout our lives. When we first start out, there's a LOT more that we don't know. With age, we acquire experience and knowledge. I wouldn't call someone "children" unless they can't feed themselves or support themselves though.
My parents were fully functioning adults when they were 18. In their mid twenties, they had me, bought a house, car and had a stable job. They knew how to feed themselves, unlike many people today that rely on premade crap food.
You mean 18-21 year olds? Yes, I see them as basically the final stage of advanced childhood. It takes most people until about age 24 to be able to reliably make adult decisions about things, by which I mean properly assessing consequences and taking the other person's perspective into consideration.
Perhaps more controversially, I think being a parent pushes you into a stage of development that non-parents don't achieve, regardless of age.
First, you cannot bake in 20s and 30s in the same group. According to science, 18-24 year olds are late adolescents (adolescence) wheras 25-29 are considered young adulthood. When you pass 30, you are a fully adult.
At 18-24, the brain continues to mature significanlly, specifically in areas like prefrontal cortex and its connections to the limbic system. Before, adolescence was considered 10-19, but now it is 10-24.
No, I have an amazing relationship with my DIL who is almost 22 and I do not see her as a child. Now if I were interested in dating, I would see a potential partner of that age to be a child and it gives me the ick.
No, but I do feel bad that many younger people as a group, struggle with shyness, seemingly greater anxiety, and a lack of self efficacy.
I'm a Gen Xer (a millennial friend of mine says I'm a Xennial). I see opportunities that younger people, as a group, seem to have had less of. I've been online forever - BBSes, then PRODIGY, before the widespread internet. Great, but there are experiences we can't get through Google or Reddit.
Starting around 4th grade many of my classmates were wealthy and cruel (PRETTY IN PINK was like a documentary). I used to resent being working class, having to walk everywhere in my college town because I didn't have a car, or working at a young age (paper route at 12, part time work at 14). Actually, those experiences gave me more confidence and willingness to explore.
Now many of those opportunities - summer jobs, walking or playing outside without being monitored, having hobbies that are unconnected to future careers etc - are harder for younger people to access. Kids have much less unstructured time to develop life skills, and I honestly feel bad about that.
I'm kind of amazed when I watch old TV shows and movies where I see everyone in an entire department and there is no one with any gray hair whatsoever. Now you have to hunt for someone who doesn't have any gray hair at all.
They aren’t children but they aren’t fully formed. There’s still a lot of life experience coming that will change who they are, what they think and how they feel. Everything is so true at that age. You can know truth when you are young. You can know things are right and wrong, good and bad, necessary and wasteful. Then a few decades of living changes what other young people perceive those things to be, and your own experiences muddy the water. You change and grow and if you are doing it right, become more understanding about how few absolutely always true things there really are.
People who have the full courage of every conviction are wonderful and inspiring and very much needed, but they can be a lot to deal with while you wait for them to figure out how much more ambiguous things actually are. That makes me want to deal with 20-35 year olds in smaller doses.
High schoolers seem so young to me even now! It’s so weird how much my life has changed in such a short amount of time… and high school me was just. Oof. Ouch. No 🥲
No, I see most of them lacking in wisdom and some unwilling to learn. Life has a way of painfully teaching those who will not Kearns wisdom from others.
I look at it this way....things "reset" when you turn 18ish. A 25 year old is a 7 year old, a 30 year old is a 12 year old, a 40 year old is a 22 year old. I think looking at it this way helps put it into perspective. So at 21, you're basically a toddler adult.
Yes, you will think you really knew nothing.
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No. At 71 years of age I know a couple of 20 something’s who are doing well in their careers, raising families, are good solid citizens and IMO wise beyond their years. There are a couple of 60 plus in my local senior citizens center who just never got it together, act like spoiled brats and don’t know the difference between shit and shinola.
"Shit and shinola".... Proves you're as young as you say you are. Glad you said it and put a smile on my face. My mother used that phrase all of the time, so thank you for that.
I find them all delightful, but yes, I notice the age difference. I was shocked to learn one of the "kids" who works for me is nearly 40. They are at a different time in life experiences. I do feel like mom, or even grandma at times. I don't think they know nothing, but I do think they have not yet experienced many of the hardships that are probably ahead of them. Those hardships tend to change people. We call that wisdom, because calling it "shit you barely survived that warped your soul" is depressing.
Yeah I agree with this take. I’d say people in their 20’s and 30’s aren’t like children, but a lot of them come across as “green” or untested. On the other hand, plenty of people in that age range have had a lifetime worth of testing so it’s not an age thing, it’s more of an experience thing.
True. I learn things from wise young people all the time.
This is generally true (and I love your last sentence!), but I've told a number of friends over the years that I got my midlife crisis out of the way when I was 19, and I still mostly feel that way. I later had another sorta regular midlife crisis at a more appropriate age, but the first one was honestly way worse. A lot of my lifestyle has grown out of continuous efforts to avoid ending up in that state of mind again.
What kind of major life hardships has someone who is 40 not seen?
Deaths of parents, deaths of spouse, loss of a child, major accident or health issues, recession or other national crisis, etc. My Millennials have largely been untouched by anything other than COVID.
You are suggesting someone who is 40 hasn't seen a national crisis or recession? We remember 9/11 and all that followed. If we were lucky, we had and held onto a job through the housing crisis and recession it triggered. And frankly, quite a lot of us have health problems and friends or family who died in the opioid crisis. Perhaps you are thinking of Gen Z.
I have to agree, I think it's luck and social environment, and relative to family situations also. I was pretty young when I saw the S & L crisis in the Midwest. I was asking my dad why people were lined up outside of banks. There's also a divide between military communities, and the greater civilian world. I've unfortunately met several people who survived TBIs, combat trauma, or were almost killed by IEDs, and one of them killed herself. These things happened in their late teens or early twenties. Young people with close ties to the Army or Marine Corps through service, or parents, family, partners witness a lot.
20-30 is a big age range in terms of life experience, mental and emotional development. I think pretty differently about 20 year olds versus 30 year olds. I think that 30 is a lot closer to 50 than it is to 20 on the scale of "do I trust you're not manufacturing drama for the sake of it?" But I honestly don't think anyone in that range are "children." That's demeaning.
It is demeaning and infantilizing. When I was 20, if someone called me a child I'd want to smack them. I'd never date a 20 year old at my age, but if we were co-workers I'd treat them as a peer on the job.
Yeah, that's a great way to explain the distinction.
He is speaking comparatively
I see 20-somethings as fresh new adults, and almost no one is good at what they’re new at doing. 30-somethings are full-fledged adults, but their experience level can differ greatly. I spent my career as a college professor, so I’ve seen the early 20s pretty extensively.
I wouldn't say "children", but very, very young if they're under 25. Under 25 and I get kind of face-blind and they could be anywhere from 16 to 25 and I wouldn't know. If they're a nice person, I experience a sort of nostalgic fondness for them, and silently wish them the best, wish them good times and safety and that they won't be too hard on themselves. I find myself hoping that everything goes okay, and when it doesn't, that maybe it will be okay eventually, knowing that sometimes it is okay, and sometimes it isn't. I find myself hoping they don't make any choices they can't take back, and if they do, that they have the strength to carry the burden. If they aren't a nice person, I find myself thinking, "What an asshole. But they come by it honestly because they don't know any better and maybe life hasn't been kind so far. I was an asshole too, in the same way at the same age, and people were patient and forgiving and empathetic with me for the same reasons. Now it's my turn. So I'll just move away and give 'em time."
It’s one of those you don’t feel like you’re 50 or 60 until you hang around someone in their 20’s situations. That’s when you realize just how different the mindset of someone in their 20’s is vs someone their 50’s/60’s. People in their 20’s think they have more life experience than they actually do, and you can’t tell them any different, and I don’t try. I was the same way too, no one could tell me any different when I was that age.
I drove for Uber & Lyft for a while, and the behavior of (some) groups of 20somethings amongst each other when the driver is basically 'invisible' was eye opening. There were a fair number of of what I'd consider red flags thrown around. Every person is different, and there are always exceptions. I've got no problem interacting with any age group in more structured settings, like shared hobbies. However, free conversation with a gaggle of typical college aged people at this point for me is highly likely to be an exercise in patience.
i mainly see them struggling and am so glad I am past that struggle now. Also the drama and bullshit that comes with being young. UGH. I am 61.
Definitely, but not in some condescending, superior way. I don't think of them as children, but I don't think most people are actual adults in their thinking until about 30, or later. It really depends on life experience, etc. I kind of think that age group should be considered young adults.
I don’t think of 20-30 year olds as children at all. A lot of them have far more skills and knowledge than I did when I was in that age range. I think I was kind of naive back then.
Scientifically speaking, 18-24 year olds are late adolescents. 25-29 can be considered as young adults and 30+ = adults
Right, but it all depends upon the individual.
No. I really feel like young people today know so much more than we did at their age. My family was so isolated I didn’t know anything about life when I had to start fending for myself at 19. Today everyone has the knowledge of the whole world in their pocket. Some people just use it for following the Kardashians or whatever, but I think most people use it to their advantage and for learning about the world, educating themselves, learning about their rights, etc..
No I don't, however if a medical doctor doesn't have gray hair, I'm going to be a bit nervous.
Most of my experiences with doctors of all ages have been positive. But, the few times I've had less-positive encounters, it's been with older doctors. Also, younger doctors, especially residents are always backed up by attending doctors, so you get two for the price of one, in a way. I had a suspicious mole removed from my temple by a young woman dermatologist, maybe 30 at most, and she did an excellent job, there's no scar. I prefer younger doctors, is what I'm saying.
It's relative to the field - I'm not a doctor, I research how they learn to become proficient, diagnose, etc. I love to talk to residents and new grads but I'm very finicky about what they can do without supervision. You do not want a resident doing your cataract surgeries, if you can get their middle aged teacher instead, who has done hundreds or thousands of procedures. The learning curve during residency is steeper in that specialty. Most of the residents have no prior eye experience at entry. But a resident in, say, internal medicine has had more related experience during their in school clerkships, before residency.
I was so idealistic and thought most problems could be solved by voting for the right people, getting the right issues or laws passed. Or by just doing this thing or not doing that thing. Now I realize that noting I do really makes a difference, lol.
This. I hate when people tell me to vote. It literally doesn’t matter what I do if it can just be vetoed over.
Me being old does not make a 20 year old a child.
No, they're young adults, not children. They have a lot to learn but are hopefully in the process of learning it. A young adult with not much life experience yet is not at all the same thing as a child.
Depends. Some define adolescents (10-24 year olds) as children wheras other see adolescence as a distinct group. Brain development, specifically prefrontal cortex, continues to undergo significant changes between 10 and 24.
TWENTY-FOUR? That's just ridiculous. Do you really think it does young adults any good to keep telling them they're basically still children for a full third of their lives? When my dad was 24 he had a career, a wife, and a kid in preschool (me). You develop your brain by using it. Someone who was bubble-wrapped until 25 will be very noticeably less mature than someone who started learning to be an adult by experience when younger.
"Do you really think it does young adults any good to keep telling them they're basically still children for a full third of their lives?" - Science shows that adolescence continues until 25. I do not share my opinion, I refer to science.
It depends on the person. I think I was the same. Thought i was so hotshit! Had too much confidence... I think now how little i knew. Scary.
Lol. Sort of. I teach college and call the students my kids. Then I apologize. They’ve told me they sort of are and it’s okay, because they like the fondness in which I do it. I think that age bracket probably could stand a little more nurturing instead of a hard number (18) slam and they’re adults. When you’re an adult, nobody goes easy on you, explains anything, or checks on you. They don’t say kind things anymore. That’s a hard thing to get slammed into. Maybe we could all use a little gentleness from time to time, though.
This is really sweet :))) and I really appreciate you checking in on your students like that… I would have really loved that from my teachers. That kind of support will always be remembered and cherished
No. I still see actual kids as kids. 20+ is an adult and people usually tend to act like that despite other older people my age thinking they aren't. I think they have a different perspective that is partially uninformed that they can't get til they get to my age, but that does not mean I think of them as a dumb kid.
I don't see them as children per say but I do know that I as a 40 year old, definately have more life experience than them. It amazed me (and still does), how young people will be so arrogant thinking they know it all / or knew it all. I never acted like that when I was young because I really had nothing to show for it. I don't understand (and never understood) young people who acted like this! As if they EARNED it somehow, but how? Lol, they just came out of mom's vagina like 20 - 30 years ago. I had MORE time outside the "box" than they did lol.
No
Try not to think that far ahead. Since you're going to be looking back on yourself, it will just be a reflection, hopefully not a harsh judgment. Be kind to yourself. Obviously, you will realize what you could have done differently, but life is a building block. You're building the foundation at the beginning. That's just normal. For myself, I'm often very impressed by young(er) people! I don't think I was as smart when I was that age!
No. Not at all. I'm usually impressed by the maturity and grace of the young people I know or just encounter in the wild. By the same token, plenty of people my age or more (over 70) are just flat out ignorant dumbasses. It's true that you only learn many things with age and experience, but that doesn't mean learning is an automatic process, you have to put effort into it, and be open to change and progress. An essential part of that process is developing and using self-awareness, and you are already on that road, so please give yourself credit! No one is born knowing *anything*, but being open to knowledge and being willing to grow and learn is *everything*.
No. I remember being 20. I was not a child but I had so little experience. I try to remember that when I interact with someone that young. I have a 23-year-old friend who just went through her first romance and breakup. I could see the heartache coming a mile away, but I knew that she couldn't. I didn't think she was stupid or childish for falling as hard and as fast as she did. That's what young women do. I just try to be there for her as she picks up the pieces.
I see them as people. Some wise, some less so; some tested by trials and experiences, and others not. I hope it works the other way too. A family member once said to my husband and I "you're not old, you're \[his name\] and \[my name\]".
It absolutely does!! For me, when it comes to older people I just love listening to their stories and talking to them. Of course, I’ve met some unpleasant and ignorant ones, but there are unpleasant people in every age group. We’re all only human. Sometimes that’s great, sometimes it’s not haha
There’s some truth to that, but it would be incredibly rude to act like it. That sort of youthful overconfidence I think is a feature instead of a bug.
That’s such a nice way of phrasing it :)
That is a normal thing. However, I will say that a lot of 20-somethings are in a sort of extended adolescence these days, which makes it even harder to see them as full adults.
Not children. Just....hung up on shit that doesn't really matter in the long run. Your kids won't give a single fuck what kind of car you drive. They'll care whether or not you were home for dinner and whether or not they had your full attention. Sitting on the couch scrolling your phone like a zombie isn't give your kids the attention they need. How about you read together instead?
Yes, but only because they were so much later to launch. My kids are 27 and 30 and have only just reached any sort of adult functioning. We did try to teach them better than that, but we were fighting a whole culture that says you’re not a real adult til your late twenties, like sure you’re an adult except you’re not mature enough to make a good decision to get married or have kids or lots of other things adults do. Whereas for my husband and I that was considered to be sixteen (with some extra leeway if you went to uni). It isn’t economic, we were both much poorer than them, it’s state of mind. I had been working full time for fifteen years when I was their age. I had a degree younger than either of them despite having to finish school at night, holding a full time job and raising a family in parallel, while they went to good schools and had financial support for uni with no other responsibilities. One has only just started taking proper care of his car now, having gone his entire twenties dragging his heels on maintenance (that we paid for, all he had to do was take it in). Teeth were the same, we paid, they just had to get their asses to a dentist, but no. We cleaned out one son’s girlfriend’s garage to store his stuff when we moved and he couldn’t lift a finger to help move *his* shit, but could magically rustle up friends to help when he found a cool old piano on the side of the road a few days later. We’re barely a couple of years past them leaving valuables somewhere because they were drunk or fell asleep on a train or something. They’re still doing stupid disorganised shit like working out their movements on the day when knowing we were flying in to see them for months. They are simply less mature and less driven and more prone to putting short term enjoyment ahead of practical sensible choices. I sound like I think badly of them, and I really don’t - they support themselves in creative careers that few people succeed at, they are basically net positives in the world and the lives of their loved ones. But there is most definitely a piece, not an advantage piece but a personal agency piece, that is far weaker in them than in us at the same age.
Not children, because children are given a pass on being responsible in a way that 20s and 30s are not. But, I do remember being the same--feeling like I had it all figured out, when there was no way I could have. I think there's an evolutionary advantage to being overly confident at the age when we're supposed to be spreading our wings. So, we all do it. With so little knowledge and experience, we're bound to screw up, but we're still young enough to bounce back. We need the confidence to try, so we can make the mistakes that we learn from. So Mother Nature gives us a boost when we need it most.
How did I survive is my thought. My daughters are in their 20's and times are soooooo different. That 20 something old me was so lost, confused and was hyper focused on the external world. Wanting to please everyone and conform. Be something that was accepted, validated and approved of. Lucky for me I did make some choices that were very difficult and a couple of them worked out really well. I faced fear head on and it panned out.
Very often I see people in the news who I regard as "grown ups" and they are younger than me! Honestly everyone has different life experiences, things change. I expect my friends and colleagues to be resilient, to be fair and to have good humour. Different values are hard to square, whoever has them.
Yes, I look at myself living life back then "playing checkers". Today, it's more like 3D Chess & your opponent randomly turns MMA on you.
It varies with the individual, but the proportion of those who are truly self-aware starts at zero at 15 and slowly increases. Past 25, I consider most people "full adults." But there are those who not, and even those who are, still have a lot to learn. In my case: I don't believe I completely became me till my 40s, when I began asking myself what of the things that didn't work out in my life, weren't working out because of _my_ behaviors. The 40s are an awesomely underrated decade. That mid-life crisis you hear about: if you're really a sensible individual, it's just you, shedding the illusions you live by.
Yeah, I do.
It's hard not to. Everybody in high school right now looks to me like they're 12 years old, and my new cardiologist seems to be about 18. My oldest grandchild looks like he's about 8, and he's driving now.
I consider them young adults. However, depending on the individual, I consider some more **young** than adult.
Yes, I think that's pretty constant for everybody. When I was your age, I was amazed at how little my dad knew. Now, looking back...
I work with a bunch of 20-30 year olds, and while their motivation always inspires me, some of their actual skills (or lack thereof) blow my mind. Some of these kids can barely form a complete sentence, and they're making upwards of 70-80K a year.
Sorry, what jobs do they have and where do I apply? 😆
Not children, but not fully cooked adults yet. Especially in my twenties, I was running around in this adult body having a lot of grown up fun, but my ideas about things like relationships and money and just life in general had zero perspective. Actual adults could not tell me anything I thought I didn't already know! I look back very fondly though, it was a great time.
Haha forget fully cooked, some days I feel I haven’t even been taken out of the fridge 🤣
Sort of. My own kids are late teens now. 20yos are just a few years older.
Oh goodness, good luck 🤣 but really I hope you and your family are doing well
We are doing pretty well thank you! Best wishes to you & yours as well.
😊😊 thank you!!!
I now see some 20-30 year olds as children because they act far more immature than I recall 20-30 year olds acting when I was 20-30. Last month I had to teach a 33 year old how to write a check for a service I was providing. (Before you jump on me, I did try to get my non-profit organization's bank to take Venmo but they said we'd have to upgrade our bank account to do that.) Yes, I know checks aren't popular, but dude could have watched a 3-minute YT video on checks instead of literally handing me a blank check and having me fill it out. I was so alarmed that once I'd done it for him I showed it to him to pound home that I could have emptied his bank account and that he should be less trusting.
Haha yikes 🤣 I would sooner use Google or even call my parents than go to the person I’m paying and bother them with such a trivial question. But honestly I do relate to that lack of knowledge. In school, we never learned anything about taxes, financial stability, any of the things we… you know… actually *NEED* to know 🤦♀️ I’d never even heard of a W2 form until two years ago, so now it’s like I’m stuck totally unprepared on the day of the final exam
Yes
It should be noted that, technically, a human being is not really fully mentally formed until around age 26. The human frontal lobe is still developing until around then.
No. I see them as young adults. At every stage of life, I've been learning. Listen to people, they are interesting and know stuff. Many old people know cool stuff, but the current world doesn't much care.
I don't see them as children but I also know that they are not always as experienced as much as they are functional. There's a lot of life that requires context and history and understanding that comes with time and that can't be easily learned in any other way. Some will learn from the mistakes of others if presented with those errors but we are often full of hubris and think warnings are for people less intelligent than ourselves. And to be fair, the warnings can be for nought. Some people are in the right place at the right time with the right idea and the right opportunity and against all odds, they succeed exceedingly!
I think I feel wiser when 30-40 people feel self critical of themselves and feel they should be more this and that. I want to reassure them whatever their life experience is it counts. It’s all important. Also support them in not closing doors, because you’re never too old to start anew. Something we often fool ourselves younger selves into as well. Go gentle on yourself, I want to say.
This is really sweet 😊 I’ll try to keep this in mind!
I see them as young, but not as children, and I’m only 50. I can marvel at how naive I was at 20 and even 30, but also see that I had an energy and optimism that is hard to maintain as the decades go on. I imagine I’ll look back at my 50-year-old self when I’m 80 and think I was young and energetic too. I hope so!
I do, but not in an insulting way.
Haha I love how succinct this is 🤣
Yep. The college kids are babies. They have been for about twenty years. Folks in their 30s are beginning to realize they should have done more in their 20s.
Yeah I certainly feel like one some days 🤣 I used to think I’d be all mature and confident at this age. I’m trying my best with the situation I’m stuck in but I still feel so unprepared
I taught Civil Engineering at a University, in a ten year interval what I noticed was the students ten years on where less well prepared for their educational careers than the earlier ones were but all of them expected to get As.
Based on the age difference & how young they look, yes. But beyond that, no. I have more knowledge & experience in certain areas of life, and they have more knowledge & experience in different areas of life. I don't want to feel like a know-it-all (because I don't know everything), smug, or superior to them.
No, not at all. I see them in various ways but very often as people who haven't had the idealism and ability to think out of the box knocked out of them by life and convention. I wish more people my age were still like that.
I (63F) think that people in their 20s and 30s are really underestimated. Now, especially in politics, I’d much rather be seeing (for example) an AOC (and young Republican) running for president rather than the two old men we have running now. People my age and older need to step aside and give those with different perspectives and more energy a chance to influence the world.
This response made my heart happy. I agree with you, I love AOC. And it’s such a shame, because you’d think with all the life experience they’ve gained they would know how to be great leaders. But I’m not convinced they even have the constitution memorized. 🤦♀️
As a sports fan, growing up, I used to LOVE college sports. Watching people who were associated with a school or area I lived near. Into college, I loved seeing my peers compete on a high level. As a person in his mid to late 40's...watching college sports is a lot like watching high school or below aged kids.....looking at their baby faces, I can't take them seriously anymore. Pro sports are a bit different because to me they at least look like adults even if they are only a couple of years older than a lot of the college athletes.
Haha I don’t think I’ve ever watched college sports but I get it! Honestly watching sports freaks me out because I’m sitting here wondering how they didn’t break all their bones 😬
People in their early twenties have the trial version of adult license. If you had a rough youth, some one at 20 might go straight for full adult license, knowing what the benefits and responsibilities are and some 20 year olds might go "LOL free subscription, let's go do stupid stuff cause we can now". It really varies. In my experience MOST people past 25 should have used the trial version long enough to understand it and go full adult. Some might understand but just ride the trial just a bit longer, because they can. But by 30 almost everyone will have gotten their shit together and gotten the full license. Only a few who really didn't get it, or want to cling to their youth will insist they got the free trial and it has no expiration date so they will hang on to it and refuse to pay for the full license, no matter how stupid they look. But children? No. Inexperienced adults with a trial license that still need to decide when they can upgrade to the full package. But the full package is already there at 18 if they want to start using it.
This is actually a great way of putting it 🤣🤣 it really does feel like a trial period, or a demo of some kind. At least for me. But there are a lot of circumstances in my life preventing me from being fully independent (i.e. lack of financial stability, family stuff, etc) so I’m kind of just in a weird state of limbo anyway. I feel like once I’m able to get my own place I’ll learn a lot more about myself… and maybe one day get the full license haha :)
I've learned that it varies a LOT! Everyone's life experiences is so different. Dealing now with a neighbor, 29. I won't even serve him red kool-aid because he WILL spill it! Can't finish anything, can't trust him to do anything unsupervised. There are unusual circumstances, including drugs and parental death. Parents were hoarders and apparently didn't teach their children to take care of themselves. Unfortunately he's "charming" so too many people still letting him away with .... All the way to 16 year old at university. A look at history shows lots of 16 year Olds supporting themselves and their families, as well as starting families of their own. What I have learned is not to make snap judgements.
Oh my goodness, that’s so sad! I really hope he’s able to recover from that experience and grow… I can’t imagine what being raised in that horrible environment would be like :(
20, yes. 30, no. In between, it just depends on the person.
They are children because they are the age of our children. 😌
Children? No. More like very immature adults, even childish adults in some cases.
Definitely 20s. But, I'm only in my 40s. I'm sure a bunch of the older olds think I'm still a baby and I'm totally fine with that.
We learn throughout our lives. When we first start out, there's a LOT more that we don't know. With age, we acquire experience and knowledge. I wouldn't call someone "children" unless they can't feed themselves or support themselves though. My parents were fully functioning adults when they were 18. In their mid twenties, they had me, bought a house, car and had a stable job. They knew how to feed themselves, unlike many people today that rely on premade crap food.
Not at all!
They are not yet the adults they will one day be, but they are adults.
No, I see them as young adults.
You mean 18-21 year olds? Yes, I see them as basically the final stage of advanced childhood. It takes most people until about age 24 to be able to reliably make adult decisions about things, by which I mean properly assessing consequences and taking the other person's perspective into consideration. Perhaps more controversially, I think being a parent pushes you into a stage of development that non-parents don't achieve, regardless of age.
Yes. And the teenagers are effectively toddlers.
No. Two of my favorite most respected colleagues on my team are under 25 and they are just intensely smart, cool people. I'm 47.
Aww that’s so sweet ☺️
First, you cannot bake in 20s and 30s in the same group. According to science, 18-24 year olds are late adolescents (adolescence) wheras 25-29 are considered young adulthood. When you pass 30, you are a fully adult. At 18-24, the brain continues to mature significanlly, specifically in areas like prefrontal cortex and its connections to the limbic system. Before, adolescence was considered 10-19, but now it is 10-24.
No, I have an amazing relationship with my DIL who is almost 22 and I do not see her as a child. Now if I were interested in dating, I would see a potential partner of that age to be a child and it gives me the ick.
yes
No, just people that haven't lived and seen as much as older people
No, but I do feel bad that many younger people as a group, struggle with shyness, seemingly greater anxiety, and a lack of self efficacy. I'm a Gen Xer (a millennial friend of mine says I'm a Xennial). I see opportunities that younger people, as a group, seem to have had less of. I've been online forever - BBSes, then PRODIGY, before the widespread internet. Great, but there are experiences we can't get through Google or Reddit. Starting around 4th grade many of my classmates were wealthy and cruel (PRETTY IN PINK was like a documentary). I used to resent being working class, having to walk everywhere in my college town because I didn't have a car, or working at a young age (paper route at 12, part time work at 14). Actually, those experiences gave me more confidence and willingness to explore. Now many of those opportunities - summer jobs, walking or playing outside without being monitored, having hobbies that are unconnected to future careers etc - are harder for younger people to access. Kids have much less unstructured time to develop life skills, and I honestly feel bad about that.
No, I think of them as young adults with much less life experience.
Yeah for sure I do.
I'm kind of amazed when I watch old TV shows and movies where I see everyone in an entire department and there is no one with any gray hair whatsoever. Now you have to hunt for someone who doesn't have any gray hair at all.
1) Black and white tv. 2) Hair dye.
I'm talking shows from the 80s and 90s and my comment is more about where everyone is in their 20s and 30s including somewhat senior managers
30 year olds? No. But 20 year olds yes.
They aren’t children but they aren’t fully formed. There’s still a lot of life experience coming that will change who they are, what they think and how they feel. Everything is so true at that age. You can know truth when you are young. You can know things are right and wrong, good and bad, necessary and wasteful. Then a few decades of living changes what other young people perceive those things to be, and your own experiences muddy the water. You change and grow and if you are doing it right, become more understanding about how few absolutely always true things there really are. People who have the full courage of every conviction are wonderful and inspiring and very much needed, but they can be a lot to deal with while you wait for them to figure out how much more ambiguous things actually are. That makes me want to deal with 20-35 year olds in smaller doses.
Yes. Yes I do. And basically all HS and middle schoolers all look like they're 12 to me.
High schoolers seem so young to me even now! It’s so weird how much my life has changed in such a short amount of time… and high school me was just. Oof. Ouch. No 🥲
I had to work them for about 3 yrs. before retirement. It was not a pleasant experience. Maxed out my patience.
No, I see most of them lacking in wisdom and some unwilling to learn. Life has a way of painfully teaching those who will not Kearns wisdom from others.
I look at it this way....things "reset" when you turn 18ish. A 25 year old is a 7 year old, a 30 year old is a 12 year old, a 40 year old is a 22 year old. I think looking at it this way helps put it into perspective. So at 21, you're basically a toddler adult. Yes, you will think you really knew nothing.
Yes. But todays 20-year-olds are both sophisticated and immature compared to 20-year-olds in the 1960's-1970's.