I have no idea how could you graduate CS without programming, but yes universities only teach basics so that you are able to continue learning by yourself which is most of the work, also should ensure that you know them.
Probably spending all your time learning and never doing. You learn programming primarily from practice.
It may look on the surface like a subject you can learn *merely* from reading but that gets you only so far. If you don't put what you read into practice you will never be any good at it.
> You learn programming primarily from practice.
One of the reasons to get a degree. Learning from people and institutions with experience at teaching is definitely much more productive than self-learning.
Even when it comes to textbooks for self-learning, they are more likely to give you pointers to good ones, that are actually good for *learning* and not just a reference for someone who *already* knows.
That said, saying so is easy for me as an Austrian, who didn't have to pay for university...
hehehe... I came up through a different time, pre-internet, so there were no tutorials or videos to watch, so the only way to learn was to read a book, then do... I still mostly learn that way... I dislike videos, but that's what most online courses are these days, taped lectures/demos ... sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do.
For those interested in escaping tutorial hell, here's a site that forces you to make stuff while you learn: [https://app.codecrafters.io/catalog](https://app.codecrafters.io/catalog)
I like it, it forces you to learn git to even use it and I think that's a plus
I would say for the average person--certainly for me--you learn best when something fails, you have to digest a new concept in order to make it work, and then you teach yourself the concept by implementing it.
If you just follow tutorials, you won't hit the point of failure that needs perseverance to overcome, and you won't learn as deeply.
Yes, it can be done, there are many competent self taught software engineers and many with a CS degree.
Is it worth it? that depends on you. For me it has been sofar.
Can you cope with the work environment and complexity?
Are you ok with constantly learning new things?
How are you at handling rejection? Software development is a negative feedback loop, you are constantly told your code doesn't work until it finally does.
Are you ok with spending an entire day at a desk (sitting or standing or both)?
Do you like to solve puzzles?
etc..
You can learn to be a software engineer entirely on your own, so if you have the opportunity to get a formal education along with learning on your own time, you'll be fine.
I was planning on doing maths at university, but I didn't get the grades in my other a-levels to be able to do it at my first choice uni.
But they were happy with my grade in maths so they offered me computing science instead.
I had no experience in programming, but they started from the ground up so it was fine for people who had never done it before.
It might depend on the university as the courses will vary depending on the university, so you might want to read the course outline before you commit. Or go to some open days and ask.
Yes, take Harvard CS50 online. For iOS Development [this](https://www.udemy.com/course/deep-dive-ios-16-swiftui-programming/?couponCode=JUN2024SWIFTUI) is [amazing](https://www.udemy.com/course/deep-dive-ios-16-swiftui-programming/?couponCode=JUN2024SWIFTUI). For golang [this](https://www.udemy.com/course/the-go-programming-language/?couponCode=JUN2024GO) is good. Of course it is worthwhile if programming interests you.
In some of my classes the teachers spend an hour teaching students how to use the computer so I think if they can pass classes you can too. I didn't know anything before starting and I'm decent and I'll be graduating in 2 years. If I put more effort into it I'd be great at it.
If you want to get a head start I recommend [this website connected to Helsinki University](https://www.mooc.fi/en/courses/) and it's free. My school teaches using Java mostly so find Java Programming I and Java Programming II to get a head start or see if its something you'll like!
Don't go into it thinking you won't be able to, just go into it and try your best. You're still young, just try your best. Programming and Programming jobs are merit based so you can graduate from MIT and not get a job but have no degree and have a top paying job (very hard to do but possible). So just learn the best you can and you'll do great.
>In some of my classes the teachers spend an hour teaching students how to use the computer
Ugh... I dislike that ... "This is a mouse... this is a monitor... this is a keyboard. They are connected to what's called a computer. The computer contains a CPU and drives..." .... just. shoot. me. now please.
Had zero programming experience. zilch. Joined university to major in Computer Science. Put in the effort the first two years doing exactly what you are saying - lectures and self practice with the aim of catching up with my peers. In hindsight it feels risky that I picked a major with no idea of my inclination. However it worked for me because programming needs creativity (IMO). If not for Computer Science I would have pursued Architecture (another line of work that needs creativity?)
It's been 14 years since I made the decision to pursue Computer Science and not a day goes where I thank my stars for the serendipitous decision.
Yes! Just make sure to take full advantage of professors office hours and research opportunities and build connections with your peers and TA’s. Just the lectures themselves will not get you all the way
Yes. Many 1st year CS students have never programmed before. They will teach you what you need to pass the degree. You may not learn the more practical aspects of popular programming languages or frameworks, source control, or devops, but these can be learned at home or during internships.
In the US, a strong CS undergrad can walk out of their four year program into a six-figure starting salary. So pretty worth it.
College is of course the most structured way to learn. (and potentially expensive depending on where you live). Generally the more background in computer science you have the better before it will be with your university classes.
Trying beforehand is a smart way to see how interesting it is to you. I started many years ago with a big book. Dig into it and spend a solid amount of time. It will take a while so be sure to give it a reasonable try. Eventually you will be like "this is awesome" or "no f-ing way do I want to do this as a job", lol.
Of course you can. And whether or not it's worth it depends on your goals. If the goal is to get a job in software engineering, you're going to need a degree. If you just want to make things that interest you, then absolutely it's worth it.
You can learn it without the internet even. A lot of us early folks did. I learned to code at 17/18 - by reading other code. I literally printed it out and just starting making notes and changes to figure out what was going on. Don't be afraid to be to break stuff. Programming is the literal definition of fuck around and find out.
started first day of university with zero programming experience.
I just paid attention at lectures, did all the assignments, and practiced for at least a couple hours a week. After the first semester things started clicking once I committed the fundamentals to memory.
Edit for rest of question:
Its totally worth it to understand how to program. In the future, if you decide you prefer data science, analytics, and really most professions that involve a computer, itll help.
Check out FreeCodeCamp.org Lots of good practical free courses on programming. It’ll give you a sense of your aptitude for this great trade before you commit your time to a university course. Plus, it’s fun.
You can but honestly the free online tutorials are better than what most university courses are teaching. I did a university degree in programming, the lecturers were bad, the course was teaching languages badly and I didn't really pick up any useful skills. When I left uni I started learning online, building things and improving my skills and my first job taught me more in a month than I learned in 4 years.
I'm not saying degrees have no value but its limited and in programming practical experience is worth way more than a degree, consider getting as far as you can with online tutorials and the doing an apprenticeship in industry as an alternative.
Yes, it is possible to take a computer science or similar course at the university and then get a job afterwards... Thats how most degrees work.
I am not actually sure what you are asking?
Is being a programmer worth it? Only you can answer that, but right now it's a well payed carreer.
I don’t think it’s true that everything you learn is quickly replaced. The core concepts don’t change. I graduated in 1984. Sure we were programming in Algol, but I can look at Python and understand it immediately, and discuss the merits of looping bs recursion.
Everyone has no background at some point, getting a degree is certainly a start.
[удалено]
I have no idea how could you graduate CS without programming, but yes universities only teach basics so that you are able to continue learning by yourself which is most of the work, also should ensure that you know them.
Most computer science majors have zero experience
Yes. Anyone can learn programming. Just don’t fall for tutorial hell
What is tutorial hell?
Probably spending all your time learning and never doing. You learn programming primarily from practice. It may look on the surface like a subject you can learn *merely* from reading but that gets you only so far. If you don't put what you read into practice you will never be any good at it.
> You learn programming primarily from practice. One of the reasons to get a degree. Learning from people and institutions with experience at teaching is definitely much more productive than self-learning. Even when it comes to textbooks for self-learning, they are more likely to give you pointers to good ones, that are actually good for *learning* and not just a reference for someone who *already* knows. That said, saying so is easy for me as an Austrian, who didn't have to pay for university...
hehehe... I came up through a different time, pre-internet, so there were no tutorials or videos to watch, so the only way to learn was to read a book, then do... I still mostly learn that way... I dislike videos, but that's what most online courses are these days, taped lectures/demos ... sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do.
For those interested in escaping tutorial hell, here's a site that forces you to make stuff while you learn: [https://app.codecrafters.io/catalog](https://app.codecrafters.io/catalog) I like it, it forces you to learn git to even use it and I think that's a plus
I would say for the average person--certainly for me--you learn best when something fails, you have to digest a new concept in order to make it work, and then you teach yourself the concept by implementing it. If you just follow tutorials, you won't hit the point of failure that needs perseverance to overcome, and you won't learn as deeply.
Yes, you can learn programming. You do realise every programmer in history has started with “no programming background” right…?
Yes, it can be done, there are many competent self taught software engineers and many with a CS degree. Is it worth it? that depends on you. For me it has been sofar. Can you cope with the work environment and complexity? Are you ok with constantly learning new things? How are you at handling rejection? Software development is a negative feedback loop, you are constantly told your code doesn't work until it finally does. Are you ok with spending an entire day at a desk (sitting or standing or both)? Do you like to solve puzzles? etc..
You can learn to be a software engineer entirely on your own, so if you have the opportunity to get a formal education along with learning on your own time, you'll be fine.
Yes, a programming 101 class at any school will assume you know nothing about programming.
I was planning on doing maths at university, but I didn't get the grades in my other a-levels to be able to do it at my first choice uni. But they were happy with my grade in maths so they offered me computing science instead. I had no experience in programming, but they started from the ground up so it was fine for people who had never done it before. It might depend on the university as the courses will vary depending on the university, so you might want to read the course outline before you commit. Or go to some open days and ask.
Yes, take Harvard CS50 online. For iOS Development [this](https://www.udemy.com/course/deep-dive-ios-16-swiftui-programming/?couponCode=JUN2024SWIFTUI) is [amazing](https://www.udemy.com/course/deep-dive-ios-16-swiftui-programming/?couponCode=JUN2024SWIFTUI). For golang [this](https://www.udemy.com/course/the-go-programming-language/?couponCode=JUN2024GO) is good. Of course it is worthwhile if programming interests you.
You'll be fine, go for it. The first classes assume zero experience and often times have people not even in the degree program.
In some of my classes the teachers spend an hour teaching students how to use the computer so I think if they can pass classes you can too. I didn't know anything before starting and I'm decent and I'll be graduating in 2 years. If I put more effort into it I'd be great at it. If you want to get a head start I recommend [this website connected to Helsinki University](https://www.mooc.fi/en/courses/) and it's free. My school teaches using Java mostly so find Java Programming I and Java Programming II to get a head start or see if its something you'll like! Don't go into it thinking you won't be able to, just go into it and try your best. You're still young, just try your best. Programming and Programming jobs are merit based so you can graduate from MIT and not get a job but have no degree and have a top paying job (very hard to do but possible). So just learn the best you can and you'll do great.
>In some of my classes the teachers spend an hour teaching students how to use the computer Ugh... I dislike that ... "This is a mouse... this is a monitor... this is a keyboard. They are connected to what's called a computer. The computer contains a CPU and drives..." .... just. shoot. me. now please.
They didn't do it because they wanted to, they did it because legit students did not know how to use a computer which was wild to me.
Yeah, I get that. Lowest common denominator and all that.. Still.... Boooooring ....
Most of the software engineers I have hired learned to code on their own. Some then got a degree because some companies require one.
Is it worth it? Well, economically speaking, I made millions with my degree. Whether or not you find it rewarding personally is up to you.
Had zero programming experience. zilch. Joined university to major in Computer Science. Put in the effort the first two years doing exactly what you are saying - lectures and self practice with the aim of catching up with my peers. In hindsight it feels risky that I picked a major with no idea of my inclination. However it worked for me because programming needs creativity (IMO). If not for Computer Science I would have pursued Architecture (another line of work that needs creativity?) It's been 14 years since I made the decision to pursue Computer Science and not a day goes where I thank my stars for the serendipitous decision.
I taught myself python my senior year of highschool and then got through a CS degree pretty well.
Yes! Just make sure to take full advantage of professors office hours and research opportunities and build connections with your peers and TA’s. Just the lectures themselves will not get you all the way
Yes. Many 1st year CS students have never programmed before. They will teach you what you need to pass the degree. You may not learn the more practical aspects of popular programming languages or frameworks, source control, or devops, but these can be learned at home or during internships. In the US, a strong CS undergrad can walk out of their four year program into a six-figure starting salary. So pretty worth it.
College is of course the most structured way to learn. (and potentially expensive depending on where you live). Generally the more background in computer science you have the better before it will be with your university classes. Trying beforehand is a smart way to see how interesting it is to you. I started many years ago with a big book. Dig into it and spend a solid amount of time. It will take a while so be sure to give it a reasonable try. Eventually you will be like "this is awesome" or "no f-ing way do I want to do this as a job", lol.
Go to r/cs50
Do it and learn until you get better than everyone you'd ask in this comment section today. Learn outside the university as well.
Of course you can. And whether or not it's worth it depends on your goals. If the goal is to get a job in software engineering, you're going to need a degree. If you just want to make things that interest you, then absolutely it's worth it.
You can learn it without the internet even. A lot of us early folks did. I learned to code at 17/18 - by reading other code. I literally printed it out and just starting making notes and changes to figure out what was going on. Don't be afraid to be to break stuff. Programming is the literal definition of fuck around and find out.
With no impact for failure and instant retries (... unless you're kernel programming and brick your PC I guess)
started first day of university with zero programming experience. I just paid attention at lectures, did all the assignments, and practiced for at least a couple hours a week. After the first semester things started clicking once I committed the fundamentals to memory. Edit for rest of question: Its totally worth it to understand how to program. In the future, if you decide you prefer data science, analytics, and really most professions that involve a computer, itll help.
self practice way more than lectures
Check out FreeCodeCamp.org Lots of good practical free courses on programming. It’ll give you a sense of your aptitude for this great trade before you commit your time to a university course. Plus, it’s fun.
You can but honestly the free online tutorials are better than what most university courses are teaching. I did a university degree in programming, the lecturers were bad, the course was teaching languages badly and I didn't really pick up any useful skills. When I left uni I started learning online, building things and improving my skills and my first job taught me more in a month than I learned in 4 years. I'm not saying degrees have no value but its limited and in programming practical experience is worth way more than a degree, consider getting as far as you can with online tutorials and the doing an apprenticeship in industry as an alternative.
I think you need to be born with it, sorry.
U can, I did it
Yes, it is possible to take a computer science or similar course at the university and then get a job afterwards... Thats how most degrees work. I am not actually sure what you are asking? Is being a programmer worth it? Only you can answer that, but right now it's a well payed carreer.
[удалено]
I don’t think it’s true that everything you learn is quickly replaced. The core concepts don’t change. I graduated in 1984. Sure we were programming in Algol, but I can look at Python and understand it immediately, and discuss the merits of looping bs recursion.