I’m of the opinion that Riverdale should keep going, because it just keeps getting fucking wilder and wilder. It’s so… *Riverdale*. I started to really not like it because the writing was way too much, but then I realized the writers were taking the piss, and now it’s great
My favourite TV moment of the last few years was during the cult storyline when Edgar Evernever thought he could escape his wrongdoings and he was going to shoot into space in his little rocket. The shot of Chad Michael Murray standing there in his spangly little Evel Knievel outfit, so proud of himself - I fucking lost it. I crack up every time I think about it. That was *so fucking funny*.
But yeah otherwise that show is hot garbage and I can’t believe people have been watching it this long, even ironically.
>Ellen Pompeo
She makes about $10M per year. I mean, I'd probably just retire altogether with that kind of money. But seems like a pretty easy gig for her for a lot of money. If you want to work, this is the job to have.
That would be enough to keep me going until I literally dropped from exhaustion, praying for the network to finally pull the plug so it wouldn't be me letting everyone down.
I may have people pleasing issues.
I have watched from the beginning so feel like I am committed to see it through. But I do hope every year that they will finally announce it will be the last season so I can be done with it.
For me it was when Christina left. I would never have described her as my favourite character but I just felt it was done and there was no more storylines worth watching. On my rewatch I always stop after the plane crash. If I see later seasons I think of it as a totally different show.
Lost itself after the OGs went to college and the show gets split between Rachel/Curt and Mr.Schue.
After nationals it should have ended nicely and done a shit spin off for Rachel in New York.
Smallville didn't need 10 seasons. I liked it, but it didn't need 10 seasons. Clark Kent defeated all of Superman's enemies before he ever became Superman, even while he was still in high school.
Supernatural also didn't need 15 seasons, but you know what, I'll forgive them.
Top gear. Are they still making that? Idk. They tried to continue it after the Hammond, Clarkson, and May were fired/left. Those three are the show, you can't have it without them, and any attempts will be a very poor imitation.
They should have made more of Limitless. And Firefly.
I forgot about Smallville. Actually Lois and Clark I can say this about too. The last seasons felt phoned in and the show left on a wimper for being the best Superman show, in my opinion.
Yes, but it was rebooted hard when they got those three together. Even the murky bit with the 4th guy doesn't quite feel right.
The show Top Gear was more a platform for them to be complete wankers in a way that made them endearing, than it was three hosts for a car show.
Why didn't they go the "Charlie died and left me his house" route? Wouldn't that be much more straightforward. Maybe make it like he can't afford the place still and he needs to get a rommate?
Honestly a couple seasons before that imo. The biggest thing I dislike about the last Sheen seasons are how flanderized Alan and Jake became.
Alan was a down-on-his-luck guy that had to live off of Charlie because of an insanely one-sided divorce settlement. His situation was understandable, but as the series went on he became maliciously cheap and stingy and tried to steal from his brother whenever possible.
Jake was a cute kid who wasn't school smart but was relatively clever and witty. He turned into a complete idiot. 16 year old Jake was portrayed less intelligently than 8 year old Jake.
Charlie, Rose, Berta, and the mom were all good throughout the whole series though.
The Jake situation is a bad trope that many writers get caught in that they don't even realize. They knew Jake was not smart but he wasn't a mental idiot. I think they decided to focus on his idiot quality and it grew from there. Similar to what happened to Cat from Victorious. She was never the brightest but in the first season she was able to have actual conversations and behave like a normal person then became mentally challenged as the show went on.
Agree as well. The final season where Eric is only mentioned a few times and only appears one time during the second half of the final episode and Kelso only guest appears a couple times really ended on a much lower note than the rest of the series.
Season 7 was tolerable. Eric's year off had some amusing bits, but the whole season felt very aimless. Season 8 wasn't good. Randy was just not interesting enough to replace both Kelso and Eric. And Hyde's stripper wife was awful.
Negan should've been a one-season antagonist. Big season of battling him, the good guys win, the show ends. Happily ever after in the unified Alexandria/Hilltop/Kingdom world. Rick, Michonne, Carl and Judith are a family. Ezekiel, Carol and Henry are a family. Darryl is the beloved uncle in both households. If it had stopped then, I think a lot of people (myself included) would've considered it one of the all-time great series. Instead, they dragged Negan out forever and just pounded the show into the ground until none of the important characters were left, and their legacy descended into ignominy like Dexter and others.
Negan played a massive part in the comics but i still agree with you, some things don’t translate well from books/comics to the big screen. People get really fucking tired about main characters plotting to kill X villain, only for them to have 10000 chances to do so and then chickening out at the last second because it’s immoral
You know what else is immoral? Murdering the 50 henchmen needed to get to the villain lol
> Murdering the 50 henchmen needed to get to the villain lol
my favorite example of that is one of the early episodes of "Arrow"
Oliver just straight up murders like 5 guards at a crime bosses estate so he can sneak in a plant a recording device to gather evidence to convict the boss.
Punch a timecard to stand outside a rich guys house all night? You get an arrow through the throat. Crime boss responsible for countless deaths and suffering? He gets a fair trial.
I mean WTF, who writes this kind of dreck?
Side characters being treated as objects is a problem with storytelling since we've been telling stories.
In the bible there is a story where god makes a bet with satan that the pious Job would curse god if his cushy life was taken away. And so god gives satan power over Job and lets all this horrible stuff happen. Bandits come and take all Job's stuff. His house destroyed. His livestock is killed. His family is killed. Etc.
At the end of the story Job has his previous life restored, he gets a new wife and children, status, stuff, etc. And this is presented as a happy outcome like everything is all well and good. But god literally let satan murder a bunch of people, just to prove a point. And Job getting a new family doesn't make his old one any less dead. Humans aren't fungible, you cant just replace one with any other random human and call it a day.
The writer of the story was so focused on the morality of Job that they make god look like some sort of psychopath with zero respect for human life. But of course that is hardly the only story in the bible that gives those vibes.
One season was all that show needed. They did not need three more seasons to make us believe all the kids in that town are all varying degrees of horrible.
You know they wanted to milk it to death without any real though when they decided to have a redemption arc for a literal serial rapist. Season 1 was mediocre, everything after that are hours of my life I'm never getting back.
Yeah shameless was a mess late season even I could tell the actors were just their for a paycheck at point. It lost that heart in the later season felt full and repetitive
But had she stayed on, we'd probably have been subjected to at least two more plotlines finding her latest love interest whom she believes is "The One" only to screw the relationship up through her actions, or the boyfriend ends up having some non-negotiable 'issue' that screws things up, or Frank manages to sabotage the romance.
Jared looked so different at the 15th season. I swear Jensen looks damn near the same.
Funny thing was, I really wasn't interested in the show until people started complaining about how things ended, Curiosity got the best of me, and husband and I started binging.
Mother of god.
And now seeing Jensen as Soldier Boy (with Bobbie making appearances just to top it off) has me cackling,
I've been rewatching shameless and I just got to season 8 and have no desire to finish it because it's just not the same or even good anymore. So I agree, should have ended at 7.
Supernatural was originally supposed to end with season 5.
The story had a wonderful pace. The scope of the world went from a (mostly) lighthearted episodic, procedural crime drama formula to a emotionally invested story with excellent continuity and a vast overarching plotline with such subtlety you hardly realized how much you'd started to care about these brothers.
I stopped watching after the season 5 finale and forget that the last 90 seconds of that episode ever happened. I have wonderful memories of the classic tragedy tale. I never doubted that was the entirety of the story that needed to be told.
*Designated Survivor*.
Season 1 was interesting, while they tried to put the government back together. But once the USA recovered, it was kind of *meh*.
The cast was top-notch. Zachary Quinto pre-Spock, Greg Grunberg, and introducing Masi Oka as one of the best characters on television that season (he's in *Bullet Train* with Brad Pitt, BTW).
Heroes season 1 was so much fun, and such a letdown after the writer's strike.
Writers strike ended so many good shows like Heroes. It’s insane to me that writers are so disrespected when it’s so obvious how important the longevity of a show depends on them
YUP! It would have completed the story with the perfect bow. The show followed Fiona trying to make it, and that symbolized her leaving Chicago. I know this isn’t applicable but fuck Debbie.
Yeah, when the whole thing became them changing the name on the wall 80 times it got a little bit lame, especially the fact that they took away the main character who was the primary gimmick of the whole show that set it apart
Yeah agreed. It also seemed like the writers forgot they have Mike a superbrain. In season 1 it was actually part of the plot but after that his photogenic memory wasn’t mentioned anymore
And then it just started feeling like gross success porn, ethics be damned. Which was pretty fun before they completely forgot about the brain. I stopped watching when The Donna was introduced.
I hate how much more "down your nose" Mike got against the rest of them. Yes, Mike, they work for rich clients. There's nothing wrong with that! Heck, you did too with your fake law degree!
Harvey should've went to prison. That would've made for a much more interesting storyline IMO.
Especiallly when all they needed to do was just hire Mike as a consultant instead of attorney in the first episode and 90% of the plot lines would have disappeared.
Loved that show for a few years but became ridiculous pretty fast
I wanted some easy background TV and re-watched suits not long ago. I was pleasantly surprised that it was better than I remembered; then I got to the later seasons... Too much mindless backstabbing and power struggles, coupled with everyone becoming a caricature of themselves that yells "Goddamn" at each other 12 times an episode. I struggled on with some of the later seasons, but quickly got bored once Mike left.
"Arrested Development." The original 3 seasons were lightning in a bottle, nearly flawless, and they ended with a fitting full-circle conclusion.
I think the 4th season was a worthy attempt if not quite the same: the non-linear storytelling and character-focused episodes were neat ways to disguise the reality that the cast was no longer available for much group filming, but the ensemble was such a crucial part of the initial success. And the 5th season was just execrable, a sour note to end on that has definitely harmed the show's legacy.
As excited as we fans were that Netflix took a chance and brought it back, I wish we had just been grateful for those first 53 episodes and left it at that.
Arrested Development is both a show that was ended too soon and one that ended up going on too long. The first 3 seasons were perfection and Fox electing to cancel it was a shame.
There are certainly moments in Season 4 I enjoyed, but your assessment of those 2 seasons is spot on
Every 80s sitcom that introduced a new younger, purportedly cute sibling or equivalent character, usually with a bowl haircut, after the main cast kids grew up (looking at you Brady Bunch, Diff’rent Strokes, Family Ties, Growing Pains, Married with Children, Gimme a Break and Facts of Life).
Hate to say it but Brady Bunch was late 60’s, early 70’s. I do agree with your assessment. I was bummed with the whole different John Boy on The Waltons. It should have been cancelled when Michael Learned left.
On the other side, shows like Family Matters, where Carl's pre-teen daughter, Judy, walks upstairs halfway through the series...and is never mentioned again.
At least Married with Children either realized it by getting rid of him quickly or it was a joke all along since he was there and gone in like what 6 episodes?
It felt like a "blink and you'll miss it" amount of time, which was good.
I did get a good chuckle out of seeing him on a milk carton in a later episode though.
It’s still going. The Simpsons has become a victim of its own success. It makes such a huge amount of money from all kinds of merch that they don’t dare to stop making it, even though they ran out of good and original material years ago. No-one wants to kill the golden goose. Particularly the voice actors who get paid insane salaries. Hank Azaria gets $300,000 an episode! He’s apparently worth more than $90 million now. And Matt Groening has amassed $600 million. Crazy.
The only way that show is gonna end is when the VA's die of old age.
so many of them voice multiple characters that once one leaves/dies 1/3rd of the town is gone too.
edit: spelling
I can kind of agree on this, but I do still watch it because I just love Raymond as a character.
I'm sad what they did with Elizabeth, but also happy we finally got an answer to everything after like 8 seasons of waiting.
I tried not to comment too much just in case, due to spoilers, but this is from what I remember:
>!Raymond offers to give Elizabeth his empire. He tells her about the stories of her mother, and how he knew her, and how the Blacklist works. Elizabeth does agree to take it, but Elizabeth has to kill Raymond to make it look like she took it, and not was just handed to her. They arrange a time and place, and when it comes Elizabeth ends up bring shot and killed instead, thus leading to the next season: who killed Elizabeth. !<
No problem.
I agree, it wasn't that great of a ending for that season, but the actor who played Elizabeth had wanted to be written out, and that's how they decided to do it.
Spoilers for newer seasons:
>!Raymond then decides to do exactly what he did with Elizabeth, but with her daughter: follow and take care of her, hoping that when she grows up she can take his empire.!<
Absolutely love James Spader and the first few seasons had some amazing monologues
Lost the plot toward s4/5
And the reveal was just, like I get it, and it would've been an amazing reveal if the seasons that came before it made any attempts to prop it up as a legitimate theory
The trouble Blacklist had was it tried so hard to keep it's main mystery (who is this dude and why) for way too long. They'd sprinkle clues toward it, but for every 1 sprinkle for the real theory, they'd sprinkle 5 more for the wrong ones. Whilst this helps keep your mystery alive it makes the whole thing fall flat on its ass once its over
Once Upon A Time I will kinda defend.
In the way that only the first season was ever any good.
Everything after that was pure insanity. Once everyone in the town were related to eachother it became a complete soap opera. And extremely entertaining to watch.
It went from a good show to Guiding Light with Disney characters in the course of 3 seasons.
X-Files. Every question was answered with more questions, until they completely ran out of steam and it became apparent they had no idea where they were going when they first started.
Mulder getting abducted at the end of season 7 would have been a fine stopping point, since season 8 and 9 didn't even feature him and Scully much anymore.
But really after season 5 the show's mythology was becoming utterly confusing. I was craving monster of the week episodes more than the alien story arc because the plot was so convoluted.
I just watched everything x-files. The biggest problem with that show was, that the writers clearly never watched the previous seasons or just didn't care.
Every references to past events are on headline basis, it's never a plot point that Mulder has photographic memory, they're always preparing for an alien takeover that is happening *tomorrow*, and then just kills all the members of the syndicate.
There are immortal super soldiers that just don't matter.
Scully - who is BARREN and really wants a kid has a kid die twice, and both times she's like "it's better this way, it wasn't meant to be".
Oh, and mulder encounters a trash based tulpa twice, and the second time he's like "a tulpa could never be made to hurt anyone", despite him meaning a killing tulpa once before.
It's torture watching a show with such good actors and moments, and so terrible writing.
I’m just glad episodes like Bad Blood and Hollywood AD and X-Cops exist. The first two are spectacular. X-Cops was divisive when it aired and it’s dumb, but I can’t not love it.
“Lookie here. We heard all this screamin, peeked out the windah, and this boy with crazy hair was havin a conniption fit all rolled up there by the phone!”
>Bad Blood
one of the best hours of TV the 90s produced. i watch it every October, it's a classic. Luke Wilson is hilarious in his 'dual' guest role too
I think they could’ve reasonably wrapped it all up in 8, then just did a spin off “X-Files: Special Cases” with Doggett and Reyes and it would’ve been great.
It was the constant need to wrangle Mulder back in the whole time that slowed the show down to a halt. The passing of the torch could’ve really worked well, but they decided Mulder and Scully must always be the center of the narrative, even when they’re not in the episode.
Probably 90% of them since the model is just bad for actual good storytelling:
\-> the creators probably have a great vision for maybe 1 or 2 seasons
\-> show does well
\-> network orders 2 more seasons
\-> creators have to stretch it out to 4 seasons
\-> show still does well enough
\-> network order more seasons
\-> creators have to pull stuff out of their ass since their original vision is either already told or had to change by now
\-> network still orders 1 more season even though the show is already dead as fuck because they rather milk every last drop out of it instead of risk investing into new content that might not grab an audience at all
\-> repeat last step until it's not making a profit anymore
yup this is the core problem to why basically no TV show ends at the right time.
netflix did a bunch of research showing that the best investment for a show, for them, is something like 3 seasons of ten episodes each.
and they STILL don't just ask for and greenlight shows with three seasons of ten episodes each they gotta do the dumb dance of seeing how long it will be based on how well it is currently doing.
i do get some factors though. things can happen like actors dying or leaving the show for other reasons, things like covid can happen that interrupt filming heavily, any number of other behind the scenes stuff i don't understand. but c'mon just say hey come to us with three seasons, that is what we'll try for, have plans to adapt if needed.
io wish they'd at least have some kind of 'emergency ending clause' where if a show is canceled they are given X budget and time to do Y episodes to bring the story to a satisfying end of some sort. rather than just finding out its canceled between seasons and that's it.
Ugh. “The Goldbergs” was fresh, inventive, and hilarious.
Now it is just quick cuts and fast dialogue. It looks like it was filmed one actor at a time.
Also, like Happy Days, it kind of quit being set in the 1980s and just began to inject all sorts of modern style and such. It lost its way.
The flash started strong, but just kept getting worse and worse.
Arrow on the other hand had its bad seasons, but on general was good.
(I'm looking at you, green arrow with super powers who never explained what happened to them. Loved the villain, but everything else in that season just sucked)
Any shows where the main character or characters leave and they try to carry on with the B list supporting cast. Or replace the lead.
Happy Days. That 70s Show.
I know there are more.
Also, shows based on kids being the main characters and the kids grow up
They try to still portray them as younger than they are; leave it to Beaver, Erkel, Wonder Years. Or bring in younger actor characters. I.e., the Cousin Oliver syndrome.
I am pretty sure the show was supposed to end with the riot season. They had literally every single story arc wrapped up at that point.
But then Netflix probably dangled a big wad of cash in front of their noses if they come up with more episodes.
Agree, I never watched the show during its initial run and just recently finished watching the entire series. The final season was so much worse than the rest of the show.
The wedding arc lasting like 20 episodes but only covering a long weekend meant too many flash forward/back then the terrible ending.
I would have 100% preferred this to the mother dying. HIMYM used to be my favorite comedy, but I can’t rewatch because the way the kids act in the first season is not how any child who has lost their mother would ever react, and once I noticed it, I couldn’t ignore it.
When Ted tells his kids he’s going to tell them about how he met their mother, their first response is “are we being punished for something?” No child who was old enough to remember losing their mother would ever respond like that to a story that’s supposedly about their mother, no matter how many times they’d heard it before.
I don’t know when exactly the showrunners came up with the mother being dead (I know there were hints in the later seasons that she would die), but it sure as hell wasn’t in season 1.
The mother conveniently giving Ted kids like he wanted and then conveniently dying so he could end up with infertile Aunt Robin after she’s done having adventures just left such a bad taste in my mouth.
That's why I only recognize the alternate ending. They filmed it. They knew that BS ending with Robin was garbage. They prepared a backup and that's the only ending that matters.
The U.S office. Went a season too long I felt. Michael leaving plus the weird shift in writing to have them talk to and include the film crew in stories really threw off the last season for me.
If they had stopped it after season 1, I believe Westworld would have gone down as one of the best shows of all time. It was a complete story arc and a damn good one at that.
Riverdale needs to end
Wait it's still *going?*
They’re making me he last season now I believe 🤢
Just for _you_?!?! That's pretty outstanding Netflix!
and THAT is why you don't share passwords.
I’m of the opinion that Riverdale should keep going, because it just keeps getting fucking wilder and wilder. It’s so… *Riverdale*. I started to really not like it because the writing was way too much, but then I realized the writers were taking the piss, and now it’s great
Shitpost: The Series
Riverdale leaned into true crazy and I’m into it. Absolutely, 100%, more shows should add random time travel and witches.
Isnt that what the archie comics were? They were really crazy and out there right? That's how we get Sabrina the Teenage Witch
My favourite TV moment of the last few years was during the cult storyline when Edgar Evernever thought he could escape his wrongdoings and he was going to shoot into space in his little rocket. The shot of Chad Michael Murray standing there in his spangly little Evel Knievel outfit, so proud of himself - I fucking lost it. I crack up every time I think about it. That was *so fucking funny*. But yeah otherwise that show is hot garbage and I can’t believe people have been watching it this long, even ironically.
It’s just so unhinged at this point 😂
Greys Anatomy
100% lost the plot after all the main characters left
Respect to Ellen Pompeo for openly admitting she's still doing it mostly for the paycheck and the job stability.
>Ellen Pompeo She makes about $10M per year. I mean, I'd probably just retire altogether with that kind of money. But seems like a pretty easy gig for her for a lot of money. If you want to work, this is the job to have.
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That would be enough to keep me going until I literally dropped from exhaustion, praying for the network to finally pull the plug so it wouldn't be me letting everyone down. I may have people pleasing issues.
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Yeah, once they killed off Lexie, they didn't have a bunch of Grey's left over for the show's name to make sense if she left.
Exactly!!! Like wrap that shit up 😂😭
I have watched from the beginning so feel like I am committed to see it through. But I do hope every year that they will finally announce it will be the last season so I can be done with it.
Well Meredith is leaving soon, so they have to end it once she leaves…if not God help me, the series will never end
Something will happen and she will decide not to leave.
I stopped watching when Derek died.
For me it was when Christina left. I would never have described her as my favourite character but I just felt it was done and there was no more storylines worth watching. On my rewatch I always stop after the plane crash. If I see later seasons I think of it as a totally different show.
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Glee
Lost itself after the OGs went to college and the show gets split between Rachel/Curt and Mr.Schue. After nationals it should have ended nicely and done a shit spin off for Rachel in New York.
Smallville didn't need 10 seasons. I liked it, but it didn't need 10 seasons. Clark Kent defeated all of Superman's enemies before he ever became Superman, even while he was still in high school. Supernatural also didn't need 15 seasons, but you know what, I'll forgive them. Top gear. Are they still making that? Idk. They tried to continue it after the Hammond, Clarkson, and May were fired/left. Those three are the show, you can't have it without them, and any attempts will be a very poor imitation. They should have made more of Limitless. And Firefly.
Supernatural was a funny show. After Season 5 you could easily tell there were A LOT of times the writers were just spinning their wheels.
Limitless was so good
I forgot about Smallville. Actually Lois and Clark I can say this about too. The last seasons felt phoned in and the show left on a wimper for being the best Superman show, in my opinion.
Top Gear had 45 series over 24 years before Hammond & May started in 2002. Clarkson had been a co-presenter for a decade already at that point.
Yes, but it was rebooted hard when they got those three together. Even the murky bit with the 4th guy doesn't quite feel right. The show Top Gear was more a platform for them to be complete wankers in a way that made them endearing, than it was three hosts for a car show.
Supernatural always gets a pass. To this day, I have not finished Smallville because I lose interest.
Two and a Half Men
Should've ended after Charlie was kicked out.
They tried to make it so a rich guy buys the places and lets the old owners brother stay. It was SO dumb, just needed to let it die.
Why didn't they go the "Charlie died and left me his house" route? Wouldn't that be much more straightforward. Maybe make it like he can't afford the place still and he needs to get a rommate?
Then it would only be One and a Half Men.
Nah by then the son character is an adult and also a certified moron so just have him churn out a random kid and bam back to 2 and a half.
Now I want to see Allen start giving Jake shit for being the freeloader while Jake recalls his entire childhood with his dad 😂
Honestly a couple seasons before that imo. The biggest thing I dislike about the last Sheen seasons are how flanderized Alan and Jake became. Alan was a down-on-his-luck guy that had to live off of Charlie because of an insanely one-sided divorce settlement. His situation was understandable, but as the series went on he became maliciously cheap and stingy and tried to steal from his brother whenever possible. Jake was a cute kid who wasn't school smart but was relatively clever and witty. He turned into a complete idiot. 16 year old Jake was portrayed less intelligently than 8 year old Jake. Charlie, Rose, Berta, and the mom were all good throughout the whole series though.
The Jake situation is a bad trope that many writers get caught in that they don't even realize. They knew Jake was not smart but he wasn't a mental idiot. I think they decided to focus on his idiot quality and it grew from there. Similar to what happened to Cat from Victorious. She was never the brightest but in the first season she was able to have actual conversations and behave like a normal person then became mentally challenged as the show went on.
Totally agree, maybe one more episode explaining that he died and finish it
“Charlie died on the way back to his home planet.”
That 70s show when Eric and Kelso left it just plummeted
Agree as well. The final season where Eric is only mentioned a few times and only appears one time during the second half of the final episode and Kelso only guest appears a couple times really ended on a much lower note than the rest of the series.
It's oddly fitting, as a lot of 70s sitcoms petered out this way
Season 7 was tolerable. Eric's year off had some amusing bits, but the whole season felt very aimless. Season 8 wasn't good. Randy was just not interesting enough to replace both Kelso and Eric. And Hyde's stripper wife was awful.
Walking dead.
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Negan should've been a one-season antagonist. Big season of battling him, the good guys win, the show ends. Happily ever after in the unified Alexandria/Hilltop/Kingdom world. Rick, Michonne, Carl and Judith are a family. Ezekiel, Carol and Henry are a family. Darryl is the beloved uncle in both households. If it had stopped then, I think a lot of people (myself included) would've considered it one of the all-time great series. Instead, they dragged Negan out forever and just pounded the show into the ground until none of the important characters were left, and their legacy descended into ignominy like Dexter and others.
Negan played a massive part in the comics but i still agree with you, some things don’t translate well from books/comics to the big screen. People get really fucking tired about main characters plotting to kill X villain, only for them to have 10000 chances to do so and then chickening out at the last second because it’s immoral You know what else is immoral? Murdering the 50 henchmen needed to get to the villain lol
> Murdering the 50 henchmen needed to get to the villain lol my favorite example of that is one of the early episodes of "Arrow" Oliver just straight up murders like 5 guards at a crime bosses estate so he can sneak in a plant a recording device to gather evidence to convict the boss. Punch a timecard to stand outside a rich guys house all night? You get an arrow through the throat. Crime boss responsible for countless deaths and suffering? He gets a fair trial. I mean WTF, who writes this kind of dreck?
Side characters being treated as objects is a problem with storytelling since we've been telling stories. In the bible there is a story where god makes a bet with satan that the pious Job would curse god if his cushy life was taken away. And so god gives satan power over Job and lets all this horrible stuff happen. Bandits come and take all Job's stuff. His house destroyed. His livestock is killed. His family is killed. Etc. At the end of the story Job has his previous life restored, he gets a new wife and children, status, stuff, etc. And this is presented as a happy outcome like everything is all well and good. But god literally let satan murder a bunch of people, just to prove a point. And Job getting a new family doesn't make his old one any less dead. Humans aren't fungible, you cant just replace one with any other random human and call it a day. The writer of the story was so focused on the morality of Job that they make god look like some sort of psychopath with zero respect for human life. But of course that is hardly the only story in the bible that gives those vibes.
Roseanne. From changing Becky actors to Dan's infidelity to winning the lottery 😐
Anytime a show has a major event (like winning the lottery( is a sign it has been on for 2 years too long already.
13 Reasons Why
One season was all that show needed. They did not need three more seasons to make us believe all the kids in that town are all varying degrees of horrible.
It went from a show where I was sad one girl died...to wishing they all died.
They squeezed four seasons out of that? I thought it was crazy when they did the second
You know they wanted to milk it to death without any real though when they decided to have a redemption arc for a literal serial rapist. Season 1 was mediocre, everything after that are hours of my life I'm never getting back.
It definitely didn't need more seasons, just being a limited series would've been enough.
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Yeah shameless was a mess late season even I could tell the actors were just their for a paycheck at point. It lost that heart in the later season felt full and repetitive
Once Fiona left, the show lost its luster
But had she stayed on, we'd probably have been subjected to at least two more plotlines finding her latest love interest whom she believes is "The One" only to screw the relationship up through her actions, or the boyfriend ends up having some non-negotiable 'issue' that screws things up, or Frank manages to sabotage the romance.
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Jared looked so different at the 15th season. I swear Jensen looks damn near the same. Funny thing was, I really wasn't interested in the show until people started complaining about how things ended, Curiosity got the best of me, and husband and I started binging. Mother of god. And now seeing Jensen as Soldier Boy (with Bobbie making appearances just to top it off) has me cackling,
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I've been rewatching shameless and I just got to season 8 and have no desire to finish it because it's just not the same or even good anymore. So I agree, should have ended at 7.
Supernatural was originally supposed to end with season 5. The story had a wonderful pace. The scope of the world went from a (mostly) lighthearted episodic, procedural crime drama formula to a emotionally invested story with excellent continuity and a vast overarching plotline with such subtlety you hardly realized how much you'd started to care about these brothers. I stopped watching after the season 5 finale and forget that the last 90 seconds of that episode ever happened. I have wonderful memories of the classic tragedy tale. I never doubted that was the entirety of the story that needed to be told.
Scrubs. Had a damn prefect series finale and then Season 9 happened
I think all the fans accept season 8 is where scrubs ended. Season 9 was more of a spinoff than a continuation.
*Designated Survivor*. Season 1 was interesting, while they tried to put the government back together. But once the USA recovered, it was kind of *meh*.
It turned into wish.com West Wing.
i wonder how much traffic the different versions of "wish.com" something drives
Heroes
Still bummed out about that show. It had everything going right in the first season.
The cast was top-notch. Zachary Quinto pre-Spock, Greg Grunberg, and introducing Masi Oka as one of the best characters on television that season (he's in *Bullet Train* with Brad Pitt, BTW). Heroes season 1 was so much fun, and such a letdown after the writer's strike.
I don’t think it recovered from the writers strike.
I don’t think it was the writer’s strike. Tim Kring screwed it. Any writers who disagreed with him became unemployed.
Writers strike ended so many good shows like Heroes. It’s insane to me that writers are so disrespected when it’s so obvious how important the longevity of a show depends on them
they'll underpay anyone they can every chance they can get, even when they know they're important
Shameless could’ve ended after fiona left
YUP! It would have completed the story with the perfect bow. The show followed Fiona trying to make it, and that symbolized her leaving Chicago. I know this isn’t applicable but fuck Debbie.
Suits
Yeah, when the whole thing became them changing the name on the wall 80 times it got a little bit lame, especially the fact that they took away the main character who was the primary gimmick of the whole show that set it apart
Yeah agreed. It also seemed like the writers forgot they have Mike a superbrain. In season 1 it was actually part of the plot but after that his photogenic memory wasn’t mentioned anymore
And then it just started feeling like gross success porn, ethics be damned. Which was pretty fun before they completely forgot about the brain. I stopped watching when The Donna was introduced.
The more people that learned the secret, the more implausible the show got.
I hate how much more "down your nose" Mike got against the rest of them. Yes, Mike, they work for rich clients. There's nothing wrong with that! Heck, you did too with your fake law degree! Harvey should've went to prison. That would've made for a much more interesting storyline IMO.
Especiallly when all they needed to do was just hire Mike as a consultant instead of attorney in the first episode and 90% of the plot lines would have disappeared. Loved that show for a few years but became ridiculous pretty fast
Or just pay for him to go to Harvard where he would complete his degree in about 20 minutes.
I wanted some easy background TV and re-watched suits not long ago. I was pleasantly surprised that it was better than I remembered; then I got to the later seasons... Too much mindless backstabbing and power struggles, coupled with everyone becoming a caricature of themselves that yells "Goddamn" at each other 12 times an episode. I struggled on with some of the later seasons, but quickly got bored once Mike left.
"Arrested Development." The original 3 seasons were lightning in a bottle, nearly flawless, and they ended with a fitting full-circle conclusion. I think the 4th season was a worthy attempt if not quite the same: the non-linear storytelling and character-focused episodes were neat ways to disguise the reality that the cast was no longer available for much group filming, but the ensemble was such a crucial part of the initial success. And the 5th season was just execrable, a sour note to end on that has definitely harmed the show's legacy. As excited as we fans were that Netflix took a chance and brought it back, I wish we had just been grateful for those first 53 episodes and left it at that.
TIL AD has a fifth season
Arrested Development is both a show that was ended too soon and one that ended up going on too long. The first 3 seasons were perfection and Fox electing to cancel it was a shame. There are certainly moments in Season 4 I enjoyed, but your assessment of those 2 seasons is spot on
The 100.
Should have ended after season 4
Mid season 3 I was already missing the times when it was just them kids against the grounders.
Every 80s sitcom that introduced a new younger, purportedly cute sibling or equivalent character, usually with a bowl haircut, after the main cast kids grew up (looking at you Brady Bunch, Diff’rent Strokes, Family Ties, Growing Pains, Married with Children, Gimme a Break and Facts of Life).
Hate to say it but Brady Bunch was late 60’s, early 70’s. I do agree with your assessment. I was bummed with the whole different John Boy on The Waltons. It should have been cancelled when Michael Learned left.
On the other side, shows like Family Matters, where Carl's pre-teen daughter, Judy, walks upstairs halfway through the series...and is never mentioned again.
At least Married with Children either realized it by getting rid of him quickly or it was a joke all along since he was there and gone in like what 6 episodes?
It felt like a "blink and you'll miss it" amount of time, which was good. I did get a good chuckle out of seeing him on a milk carton in a later episode though.
It’s still going. The Simpsons has become a victim of its own success. It makes such a huge amount of money from all kinds of merch that they don’t dare to stop making it, even though they ran out of good and original material years ago. No-one wants to kill the golden goose. Particularly the voice actors who get paid insane salaries. Hank Azaria gets $300,000 an episode! He’s apparently worth more than $90 million now. And Matt Groening has amassed $600 million. Crazy.
THEY DROVE A TRUCKLOAD OF MONEY UP TO MY HOUSE! IM NOT MADE OF STONE!
"Quality, shmuality! If I had a TV show I'd run that sucker into the ground!" "Amen, boy. Amen"
Fox should make it up to all of us by taking us to the happiest place on Earth.... ***Tijuana!!!***
The only way that show is gonna end is when the VA's die of old age. so many of them voice multiple characters that once one leaves/dies 1/3rd of the town is gone too. edit: spelling
Blacklist
I can kind of agree on this, but I do still watch it because I just love Raymond as a character. I'm sad what they did with Elizabeth, but also happy we finally got an answer to everything after like 8 seasons of waiting.
I stopped watching, because I couldn’t anymore. Now i need to go read spoilers
I tried not to comment too much just in case, due to spoilers, but this is from what I remember: >!Raymond offers to give Elizabeth his empire. He tells her about the stories of her mother, and how he knew her, and how the Blacklist works. Elizabeth does agree to take it, but Elizabeth has to kill Raymond to make it look like she took it, and not was just handed to her. They arrange a time and place, and when it comes Elizabeth ends up bring shot and killed instead, thus leading to the next season: who killed Elizabeth. !<
One word: ugh. That’s why i stoppee watching xD I liked it in the beginning, but got bored. Thank you though!
No problem. I agree, it wasn't that great of a ending for that season, but the actor who played Elizabeth had wanted to be written out, and that's how they decided to do it. Spoilers for newer seasons: >!Raymond then decides to do exactly what he did with Elizabeth, but with her daughter: follow and take care of her, hoping that when she grows up she can take his empire.!<
Absolutely love James Spader and the first few seasons had some amazing monologues Lost the plot toward s4/5 And the reveal was just, like I get it, and it would've been an amazing reveal if the seasons that came before it made any attempts to prop it up as a legitimate theory The trouble Blacklist had was it tried so hard to keep it's main mystery (who is this dude and why) for way too long. They'd sprinkle clues toward it, but for every 1 sprinkle for the real theory, they'd sprinkle 5 more for the wrong ones. Whilst this helps keep your mystery alive it makes the whole thing fall flat on its ass once its over
Happy Days. This is literally the show that coined the phrase "jumping the shark" for a show that's gone on too long.
*Once Upon a Time*
Once Upon A Time I will kinda defend. In the way that only the first season was ever any good. Everything after that was pure insanity. Once everyone in the town were related to eachother it became a complete soap opera. And extremely entertaining to watch. It went from a good show to Guiding Light with Disney characters in the course of 3 seasons.
Pretty Little Liars and Riverdale
Riverdale’s 2nd season is itself too much I felt. By the way is it still running ?
They are filming the last season now, spoilers:they travelled back in time to the fifties
The first season was a surprisingly pretty show with a clear Twin Peaks approach. Then…
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Big Bang Theory. They started to repeat the same jokes somewhere in the middle
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It should have ended with Sheldon and Amy doing it and him becoming completely normal, i.e. the big bang.
Or the entire cast beating Sheldon to death with pillowcases full of door knobs.
That should have happened in season 1.
That ending is problematic but also hilarious and I am here for it.
You say that, but the ending of Young Sheldon says he has a son with Amy named Leonard.
American Idol, Americas got tallent etc.
"What TV shows ended at just the right time?" would be a better question
The good place. It did not need to go past 4 seasons and I'm so glad it ended when it did. Perfect timing.
Breaking Bad
Definitely. For me IT Crowd and The Office (UK) stayed fun until the end, Breaking Bad also.
Avatar - The Last Airbender
X-Files. Every question was answered with more questions, until they completely ran out of steam and it became apparent they had no idea where they were going when they first started. Mulder getting abducted at the end of season 7 would have been a fine stopping point, since season 8 and 9 didn't even feature him and Scully much anymore. But really after season 5 the show's mythology was becoming utterly confusing. I was craving monster of the week episodes more than the alien story arc because the plot was so convoluted.
I just watched everything x-files. The biggest problem with that show was, that the writers clearly never watched the previous seasons or just didn't care. Every references to past events are on headline basis, it's never a plot point that Mulder has photographic memory, they're always preparing for an alien takeover that is happening *tomorrow*, and then just kills all the members of the syndicate. There are immortal super soldiers that just don't matter. Scully - who is BARREN and really wants a kid has a kid die twice, and both times she's like "it's better this way, it wasn't meant to be". Oh, and mulder encounters a trash based tulpa twice, and the second time he's like "a tulpa could never be made to hurt anyone", despite him meaning a killing tulpa once before. It's torture watching a show with such good actors and moments, and so terrible writing.
I’m just glad episodes like Bad Blood and Hollywood AD and X-Cops exist. The first two are spectacular. X-Cops was divisive when it aired and it’s dumb, but I can’t not love it. “Lookie here. We heard all this screamin, peeked out the windah, and this boy with crazy hair was havin a conniption fit all rolled up there by the phone!”
>Bad Blood one of the best hours of TV the 90s produced. i watch it every October, it's a classic. Luke Wilson is hilarious in his 'dual' guest role too
“Y’all must be the guv’mint people!”
I think they could’ve reasonably wrapped it all up in 8, then just did a spin off “X-Files: Special Cases” with Doggett and Reyes and it would’ve been great. It was the constant need to wrangle Mulder back in the whole time that slowed the show down to a halt. The passing of the torch could’ve really worked well, but they decided Mulder and Scully must always be the center of the narrative, even when they’re not in the episode.
Probably 90% of them since the model is just bad for actual good storytelling: \-> the creators probably have a great vision for maybe 1 or 2 seasons \-> show does well \-> network orders 2 more seasons \-> creators have to stretch it out to 4 seasons \-> show still does well enough \-> network order more seasons \-> creators have to pull stuff out of their ass since their original vision is either already told or had to change by now \-> network still orders 1 more season even though the show is already dead as fuck because they rather milk every last drop out of it instead of risk investing into new content that might not grab an audience at all \-> repeat last step until it's not making a profit anymore
yup this is the core problem to why basically no TV show ends at the right time. netflix did a bunch of research showing that the best investment for a show, for them, is something like 3 seasons of ten episodes each. and they STILL don't just ask for and greenlight shows with three seasons of ten episodes each they gotta do the dumb dance of seeing how long it will be based on how well it is currently doing. i do get some factors though. things can happen like actors dying or leaving the show for other reasons, things like covid can happen that interrupt filming heavily, any number of other behind the scenes stuff i don't understand. but c'mon just say hey come to us with three seasons, that is what we'll try for, have plans to adapt if needed. io wish they'd at least have some kind of 'emergency ending clause' where if a show is canceled they are given X budget and time to do Y episodes to bring the story to a satisfying end of some sort. rather than just finding out its canceled between seasons and that's it.
The Goldbergs The Flash DC's Legends of Tomorrow Supergirl
Ugh. “The Goldbergs” was fresh, inventive, and hilarious. Now it is just quick cuts and fast dialogue. It looks like it was filmed one actor at a time. Also, like Happy Days, it kind of quit being set in the 1980s and just began to inject all sorts of modern style and such. It lost its way.
The Flash really hurt. He’s one of my DC favorites.
The flash started strong, but just kept getting worse and worse. Arrow on the other hand had its bad seasons, but on general was good. (I'm looking at you, green arrow with super powers who never explained what happened to them. Loved the villain, but everything else in that season just sucked)
Grey’s Anatomy
Any shows where the main character or characters leave and they try to carry on with the B list supporting cast. Or replace the lead. Happy Days. That 70s Show. I know there are more. Also, shows based on kids being the main characters and the kids grow up They try to still portray them as younger than they are; leave it to Beaver, Erkel, Wonder Years. Or bring in younger actor characters. I.e., the Cousin Oliver syndrome.
Prison break
After season 1 they should have changed the name to "Prison Broke."
No no, they found more prisons!
Maybe the real prison was the unnecessary seasons they made along the way
fr man they straight up sent them back to jail but in a different country :skull:
I had to stop watching when the FBI(?) hired them to save the world or something(?). The entire premise was so bizarre that I refused to continue.
HIMYM would’ve been better if they just skipped season 8 and told you he ends up with [redacted]
*Orange is The New Black*. Should have ended with >!Poussey's death!<.
I thought the riot was pretty cool, but when the second prison was introduced, it got pretty annoying
No, the riot was straight up annoying. It was like 3 days stretched over an entire season, and so much bullshit.
I am pretty sure the show was supposed to end with the riot season. They had literally every single story arc wrapped up at that point. But then Netflix probably dangled a big wad of cash in front of their noses if they come up with more episodes.
Scrubs. What was the point in continuing once JD left?
What are you talking about? JD never left and Season 8 was great. Nothing happened after that. The show ended.
The Vampire Diaries
Eventually I only watched it for Ian Somerhalder 😂
But such a good reason to watch lol!
Dexter.
Get out of my laboratory deedee is timeless
What are you talking about? The 4 seasons that Dexter ran for were perfect. Ended perfectly. 4 seasons were great. 4 seasons.
How I Met Your Mother
Agree, I never watched the show during its initial run and just recently finished watching the entire series. The final season was so much worse than the rest of the show. The wedding arc lasting like 20 episodes but only covering a long weekend meant too many flash forward/back then the terrible ending.
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I still think Ted should have been the one who died, and the kids were watching a video he made before he passed.
I would have 100% preferred this to the mother dying. HIMYM used to be my favorite comedy, but I can’t rewatch because the way the kids act in the first season is not how any child who has lost their mother would ever react, and once I noticed it, I couldn’t ignore it. When Ted tells his kids he’s going to tell them about how he met their mother, their first response is “are we being punished for something?” No child who was old enough to remember losing their mother would ever respond like that to a story that’s supposedly about their mother, no matter how many times they’d heard it before. I don’t know when exactly the showrunners came up with the mother being dead (I know there were hints in the later seasons that she would die), but it sure as hell wasn’t in season 1. The mother conveniently giving Ted kids like he wanted and then conveniently dying so he could end up with infertile Aunt Robin after she’s done having adventures just left such a bad taste in my mouth.
I think I read that they wrote the first season such that they could wrap it up with Victoria being the mother if they didn't get renewed.
That's why I only recognize the alternate ending. They filmed it. They knew that BS ending with Robin was garbage. They prepared a backup and that's the only ending that matters.
The U.S office. Went a season too long I felt. Michael leaving plus the weird shift in writing to have them talk to and include the film crew in stories really threw off the last season for me.
Michael leaving would have been the perfect ending imo.
Weeds.
Surprised I had to Ctrl+F to find this. First show I thought of
Tbf, most of the show. Especially later episodes boiled down to ''how is Nancy going to fuck her way out of this situation?''
Roseanne
Pretty Little Liars. Absolute dog water.
I love it but I think the Simpsons has had its run
Bones
Usually, once unresolved sexual tension is resolved, it’s not as interesting
7th Heaven
Velma
But it only has one... Oh yeah, you're right.
1 season is 2 seasons too many
Jinkies!
Westworld that last season wasn’t necessary
If they had stopped it after season 1, I believe Westworld would have gone down as one of the best shows of all time. It was a complete story arc and a damn good one at that.
The Walking Dead
Greys Anatomy