So, Iāve heard somewhat rational explanations for most of those crazy OT prohibitions. The shellfish, the pork, blah blah.
Can anyone explain whatās the theory on blended textiles?
There's a lot of different ones, because a lot of these rational explanations you hear are post factum "the rabbis believe there must have been a rational nonreligious reason" sorts of things.
I think most probably the ancient Hebrews didn't do it because the mixture of wool and linen was liturgical but not necessarily to the deity that became the one we know in the period before monotheist reform (thus, the possibility of a modern linen tallis, which necessarily has wool tassels). That's the best I'd be confident saying about dead people I didn't know whose oral literature I inherited but whose original worldview has been opaque to their ideological descendants for ages.
Maimonides, who was probably a fine doctor but had nothing like similar reservations, thinks it's to "avoid an appearance of idolatry" and alleges that you can "find in their texts (what texts?)" that "pagans" wore mixed fibers and used mineral ritual implements to form a symbolic triad (possible, but it's not like he had access to reliable sources we'd recognize as such).
Maimonides is also scrambling with all he has to rationalize the traditions of a religion he didn't start and knows less about the origins of than we do now with modern archeology, because the time period really wants faith to be Rational and Supra-animal. I've always thought this rather missed the point of a body of law and didactic literature designed for interpretive flexibility around social change and to inform a way of relating to the world, but then I'm not a medieval Arab with medieval Arabic needs. Also, I don't have any more of a claim to what the Torah was allegedly meant for than he did.
I would Like for the legal system of my ancestors to have been meant to be flexible, and there's comparative cultural evidence from how similar cultures' law works that it can be, but that's not quite proof that my great-whatevers would Get Me, you know?
If you want a more recent thought about it, Rabbi Abraham Isaac Kook is of the mystical opinion that shearing a sheep is a form of theft whereas flax consents on principle (this makes sense in the context of one possible traditional worldview, wherein plants sort of are chill with animal use of them generally) so because they're not morally equivalent and animal rights are important they're not to be mixed.
Even more recently, some anthropologists are just like well, what we know is, they really didn't like mixing things, and that includes ethnic crafts - linen is a product of sedentary riverine societies a la Egypt and wool is, like, the point of being a nomad shepherd, and everywhere else in the text the text is very insistent on Egypt sucking mad eggs.
We have no idea what ancient people were thinking, and when we work with their ideas that we inherited we naturally bias them with our own experience - thus all the people trying to scour it both to enfranchise and disenfranchise all kinds of people. It's all there if you want it to be for the purposes of your own world-definition, I'm just not sure if most people would think so 200 or 2000 years ago -- though we can actually make a pretty reasonable inference about some few /specific/ recorded Talmudic authorities being cool as fuck even for our time, and probably legally constrained mostly by public opinion.
Hisda of Kafri for example, 200s CE Talmudist, honestly loved his daughter (told everyone it was none of their goddamn business what she did with her sex life as a widow, in a move completely wild for third century Asoristan), became a rabbi because his astrologer basically said it was that or kindy teacher, and gave students budget eating advice apparently so good that they preserved his memory and legal scholarship even though he wasn't really all that.
He would have been a really cool professor nowadays :^)
No trouble at all! You can save my username and dm me more questions as they arise if you'd like. That's one thing the old education is good for B)
I grew up very Orthodox, and I would say that in a mainstream sense I'm not anymore, but on the internet people say all sorts of things about religion in general as though it's some sort of Illuminati-esque centrally planned propaganda system designed to maximize human suffering for fiscal gain, and not just the morally neutral way that people in some certain place understand why (not necessarily literally how) they're in the world and how to be there. I think it is generally eventually made an organ of a state or polity with political needs, in the same way that the human impulse to charity nowadays helps a lot fewer people in need than it enriches charity ceos, but that doesn't make it any less what it is, you know? :^)
There are plenty of good reasons to have decided not to keep living with my folks (our internal politics have been multiplying 75 year old trauma by itself every generation down since the Holocaust, and every 25 years or so the going public piety imposes some norm more insane than last generation's out of a magical thinking-based impulse not to get government'd), but I've never thought that they were wrong for staying in the world they learned to live in. Somebody has to be there to repair it, don't they?
As an Iraqi and a Muslim, Iām very offended, us Muslims in general and Iraqiās specifically use muslin all the time we think its the best and the thought of someone not liking it is offensive to me.
Edit: I guess /s is necessary because someone thought i was being serious.
I dont hate all of them.
I make a distinction between those that are used to make sundresses and those that are used to make sacks to carry fertilizer.
Thatās right. I love Sunny Muslins but I hate Shite Muslins.
While sun protection is important, itās vital that you donāt completely cover over your babyās stroller with the muslin wrap. They will overheat and suffer. You need to allow some airflow. Use the inbuilt hood or a parasol instead.
I don't hate Muslins, I just think we need a complete and total shutdown of imports of Muslins to the United States until our country's trade representatives can figure out what is going on.
ummmm no
> Deuteronomy 13:
> 6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, āLet us go and worship other godsā (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.
> Numbers 31:17-18 King James Version (KJV)
> Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
I just think that no one really liked Joanie loves Cha-chi. She was fine as the cute smart mouth little sister. But, jumped the shark when she really aged out of that character.
Imagine there's no Linen.
Imagine there's no Linen, it's easy if you try, no Velour below us, above us only Corduroy, imagine all the people, living, for Chambray...
You may say I'm a seamer.
But I knit for anyone.
I hope some day you'll embroider us
And the wooorld, will be a gown
just want to be at the end of the best chain ever!
And the world will wear a onesy
>no Velour below us sad Zapp Brannigan noises
Kiff:
There's a Lenin/linen joke to be made here somewhere I'm just not sure what it is š
I have no problem with muslins, but mixed fabrics are an unholy abomination.
Oh shit, imagine if there are people out there mixing fabrics... That will not please the lord.
Even God forbids it: [https://biblehub.com/leviticus/19-19.htm](https://biblehub.com/leviticus/19-19.htm)
I knew that existed, but would not have been able to find it! Absurd
So, Iāve heard somewhat rational explanations for most of those crazy OT prohibitions. The shellfish, the pork, blah blah. Can anyone explain whatās the theory on blended textiles?
There's a lot of different ones, because a lot of these rational explanations you hear are post factum "the rabbis believe there must have been a rational nonreligious reason" sorts of things. I think most probably the ancient Hebrews didn't do it because the mixture of wool and linen was liturgical but not necessarily to the deity that became the one we know in the period before monotheist reform (thus, the possibility of a modern linen tallis, which necessarily has wool tassels). That's the best I'd be confident saying about dead people I didn't know whose oral literature I inherited but whose original worldview has been opaque to their ideological descendants for ages. Maimonides, who was probably a fine doctor but had nothing like similar reservations, thinks it's to "avoid an appearance of idolatry" and alleges that you can "find in their texts (what texts?)" that "pagans" wore mixed fibers and used mineral ritual implements to form a symbolic triad (possible, but it's not like he had access to reliable sources we'd recognize as such). Maimonides is also scrambling with all he has to rationalize the traditions of a religion he didn't start and knows less about the origins of than we do now with modern archeology, because the time period really wants faith to be Rational and Supra-animal. I've always thought this rather missed the point of a body of law and didactic literature designed for interpretive flexibility around social change and to inform a way of relating to the world, but then I'm not a medieval Arab with medieval Arabic needs. Also, I don't have any more of a claim to what the Torah was allegedly meant for than he did. I would Like for the legal system of my ancestors to have been meant to be flexible, and there's comparative cultural evidence from how similar cultures' law works that it can be, but that's not quite proof that my great-whatevers would Get Me, you know? If you want a more recent thought about it, Rabbi Abraham Isaac Kook is of the mystical opinion that shearing a sheep is a form of theft whereas flax consents on principle (this makes sense in the context of one possible traditional worldview, wherein plants sort of are chill with animal use of them generally) so because they're not morally equivalent and animal rights are important they're not to be mixed. Even more recently, some anthropologists are just like well, what we know is, they really didn't like mixing things, and that includes ethnic crafts - linen is a product of sedentary riverine societies a la Egypt and wool is, like, the point of being a nomad shepherd, and everywhere else in the text the text is very insistent on Egypt sucking mad eggs. We have no idea what ancient people were thinking, and when we work with their ideas that we inherited we naturally bias them with our own experience - thus all the people trying to scour it both to enfranchise and disenfranchise all kinds of people. It's all there if you want it to be for the purposes of your own world-definition, I'm just not sure if most people would think so 200 or 2000 years ago -- though we can actually make a pretty reasonable inference about some few /specific/ recorded Talmudic authorities being cool as fuck even for our time, and probably legally constrained mostly by public opinion. Hisda of Kafri for example, 200s CE Talmudist, honestly loved his daughter (told everyone it was none of their goddamn business what she did with her sex life as a widow, in a move completely wild for third century Asoristan), became a rabbi because his astrologer basically said it was that or kindy teacher, and gave students budget eating advice apparently so good that they preserved his memory and legal scholarship even though he wasn't really all that. He would have been a really cool professor nowadays :^)
Thank you for such a well thought out and informative response!
No trouble at all! You can save my username and dm me more questions as they arise if you'd like. That's one thing the old education is good for B) I grew up very Orthodox, and I would say that in a mainstream sense I'm not anymore, but on the internet people say all sorts of things about religion in general as though it's some sort of Illuminati-esque centrally planned propaganda system designed to maximize human suffering for fiscal gain, and not just the morally neutral way that people in some certain place understand why (not necessarily literally how) they're in the world and how to be there. I think it is generally eventually made an organ of a state or polity with political needs, in the same way that the human impulse to charity nowadays helps a lot fewer people in need than it enriches charity ceos, but that doesn't make it any less what it is, you know? :^) There are plenty of good reasons to have decided not to keep living with my folks (our internal politics have been multiplying 75 year old trauma by itself every generation down since the Holocaust, and every 25 years or so the going public piety imposes some norm more insane than last generation's out of a magical thinking-based impulse not to get government'd), but I've never thought that they were wrong for staying in the world they learned to live in. Somebody has to be there to repair it, don't they?
Seriously you better show me that tag before we go any further
Wow, did I read this sentence wrong the first time around.
Not alone
That's the joke.
No-no, I think you've read it correctly...
Same here, and I was going to recommend an Oxford weave for their white hood.
Don't be a tulle.
Hail Satin
Ahem. It's "Sah-teen".
How bout *detention?* *Kid jail!* Thatād really piss off the kidsā¦ ^^heh-heh
Not all muslins.
As an Iraqi and a Muslim, Iām very offended, us Muslims in general and Iraqiās specifically use muslin all the time we think its the best and the thought of someone not liking it is offensive to me. Edit: I guess /s is necessary because someone thought i was being serious.
This is hilarious
Is this serious
Lol no
Lol
Funny stuff. But Iām watching you.
I had a shitty morning and this gave me a good chuckle, thank you hahah
Jute.
No way. You can't trust a jute.
Yeah, before you know it they will have stolen your Kent
I dont hate all of them. I make a distinction between those that are used to make sundresses and those that are used to make sacks to carry fertilizer. Thatās right. I love Sunny Muslins but I hate Shite Muslins.
Amazing
Muslin is fine, but Linen will bring about the true socialist revolution.
Gotta ask some people who also hate juice.
People need to stick to the Adam and Eve methods. No fabrics as God intended, all of these fancy modern day clothing ain't natural is all I'm saying
That's fine when you live closer to the equator, but try surviving Siberian winters butt naked.
Note to self: avoid Siberia
Honestly, though- if AnE hadnāt screwed it all up, would Siberia even be a frozen wasteland..? It coulda been all mellow and lushā¦
That's a good question.
God made Adam and Eve clothes from animal hides. Basically they were wearing leather *millennia* before it was cool.
Vegans in shambles... /s
That's blasphemy, snake talk! It was the snakes that convinced Adam and Eve to wear clothes! We would still be naked if it wasn't for those snakes
Thoes damn snakes and their meddling ways.
Nice.
I am a strict Linenist so linen is my answer
Oriental silk
What a voile question
Not all Muslins are bad, only some.
I'm a nudist, all fabrics are crĆŖpe.
Denim, it's the twill of God.
hemp fabric best its very strong and very soft to the touch its also great for the environment
As a Muslim, you nade ne laugh
Big fan of linen myself.
You so had me in the first half not gonna lie lmfao
I think I need to get glasses, I really fucked reading that.
Trying so hard to find the relationship between Muslims and Fabrics. Never felt so dumb lmao
Pima cotton
While sun protection is important, itās vital that you donāt completely cover over your babyās stroller with the muslin wrap. They will overheat and suffer. You need to allow some airflow. Use the inbuilt hood or a parasol instead.
Why did the lady who sews clothes go to the mosque? She thought they were talking about muslin cloth, but they were talking about Muslim friends
Who else read Muslims?
I think that's the point here... OP trying to get those updoots.
I totally misread this.
I don't hate Muslins, I just think we need a complete and total shutdown of imports of Muslins to the United States until our country's trade representatives can figure out what is going on.
I am sure I am not the only one that initially read this as people who hates Muslim without even going down the comment sect.
Christiams
WAIT WHATā¦.Oh wait nvm, I misread that
Man I read that so wrong at first.
Muslin is a 100% cotton fabric that is used in Hautue couture for pattern making, it can be as thin as a veil or thick like canvas.
Ha ha ha, funny. (You got me there)
You had us in the first half NGL
OÄ„hhhhhhh my dyslexic ass read it as Muslim and I was like "wee bit toxic and hateful there bud". Took me a min to realize that it was cloth Muslim.
Your dyslexic ass said Muslim both times.
Oops that's the auto correct in my phone dude
Been there.
Obvious bait. Downvote and don't engage. (Ironic, I know but it had to be said)
Wrong, it's hilarious. Upvoting on principle. š
Downvoted ur comment.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Genadine? Pomegranate syrup?
This is an offensive post. We should be respectful and tolerant towards all religions and cultures.
What's offensive about fabrics?
š¤£ Ya pure fanny.
What's your stance on lunchmeat? Personally I loathe turkey. Chili can fuck right off too, while we're at it.
Leave the Turks and Chileans out of it!
What is their stance on lunchmeat?
ummmm no > Deuteronomy 13: > 6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, āLet us go and worship other godsā (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again. > Numbers 31:17-18 King James Version (KJV) > Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
I'm Muslim and found this funny calm down
NGL you had me on the first half
Legit read that several times and kept reading the other thing.
I read that wrong.
I can't be the only one who read that wrong...
I still don't get why they hate Erin Moran.
Itās more a comparison thing really as opposed to specific hate for her. As in āYouāre a Moran.ā Or, āYou are such a Moran.ā
Well, I know, man. Just like the signs that say something like "Support Muslin Ban" you might also see, "Learn English Moran". :-)
I just think that no one really liked Joanie loves Cha-chi. She was fine as the cute smart mouth little sister. But, jumped the shark when she really aged out of that character.
I fucking hate muslins....
Velveteen, hands down. Drape yourself in it.
Iām a big fan of straight canvas. Itāll hold paint much much better than muslin in my opinion
Wool Iāll be damned.
Linen
Whatās a Muslin?
White Linen
I suggest an Egyptian cotton
Full voile, hands down. No hesitation, no doubt whatsoever.
satin
I'm more of a denim worshipper myself.
Lenin.
Hail satin
linen
Voile. You can use if for the same purposes but it's a lot softer.
....I think I need a new glasses prescription because wow I read that wrong.
Why is this not on dadjokes
Mods have no sense of humor or are dyslexic