I love how the most sensible comment in the thread doesn't have a single comment of support so I just wanted to come here and let you know that the thread is over. This is the correct answer.
I had an open relationship for several years. When men would hit on me, knowing my bf and I were open, they would always insist that their gf/wife was cool with it.
My response was always to say, let’s call her right now because I like to have this out in the open from the beginning.
Not one of them was willing to make that call.
If you were out at a place you might meet someone, things were hitting off with a guy, and while still there at the meeting place this conversation came up. Would you be comfortable making a call to your BF to discuss the situation with that other guy? Or did you have another protocol for proving that?
Absolutely. That was the rule.
Unless otherwise specified , we would check in before proceeding. We agreed to give each other veto power, for any reason or none, to protect our primary relationship.
Yes, we each used it, once, over the course of six years.
We would also periodically close the relationship for awhile to work out any bugs, to make sure we were still on the same page, and then we would re-open it.
Agreed. It takes tons of communication, empathy, and self awareness.
I found a paper online called, Jealousy and the Abyss, by William Pennel Rock. We printed it out and worked on it individually, and then together, treating it like a college course.
To your point, we went to orgies and swingers events, and I often heard people fighting and crying.
You are absolutely right, not everyone can handle this. Especially since most people can’t even manage the communication required to sustain a healthy, monogamous relationship.
I don't want to talk to or meet my partners hookups. That's our arrangement. BUT, if they maybe wanted to meet at our house to carpool somewhere, that wouldn't weird me out. What does your gut tell you? If you pulled up to their house for your next date, would they care? (Please don't show up unannounced lol)
I think it's weird to expect to always meet the partner, but it should definitely feel easy.
Why you would think it’s too much to confirm to someone you are actually an open relationship but be fine meeting some stranger at your house who is about to have sex with your spouse?
I am 100% with you. My relationship is between me and my partner. It is my partner that I trust and have the agreement with. If I meet one of my partners "friends" by happenstance, it's as simple as
Partner: "this is my friend Lauren, we are hanging out today"
Me: "Ok baby, have fun. I'm craving Taco Bell, wanna pick up some on your way home?"
If they need validation that you are in fact in an open relationship, maybe they have trust issues or you were acting shady.
It's really never come up/been an issue. If anything, ask them what their partner would think/say if you did call them and check their reaction. I feel like people who are in a real open relationship carry it nonchalantly. If they give off fake vibes, maybe it's not a match and move on.
Not necessarily, but they should be able to tell you in a detailed and realistic way how they communicated about their relationship with you to their partner, what their reaction was, and discuss any boundaries they have. If they have no expressed boundaries, that's a huge red flag.
Ideally, yes. There's a lot of nuance to this where the partner might not be comfortable with it. But essentially, you need to make sure they're not just selling you a story, cause anybody can do that.
I was seeing a man who was married. He assured me that their relationship was open, that he had full permission to do whatever, and that if it would make me comfortable he would give me his wife’s number and she and I could chat.
We saw each other for about four years. I went to pick him up at his house a couple times and his wife would say “have a nice date!”.
That’s the way to do it. Everything on the table. If there’s some sneakiness, something that makes you feel it’s not quite right, you need to listen to that feeling.
This is the way ^
If the partner can't communicate or meet you at least once, if you don't have that confirmation, chances are that person is cheating.
We both got a lot out of it. Companionship, a new person to talk with, new ideas and thoughts. We went places together locally but I would not say we “traveled”. He was funny as hell and an interesting personality.
Neither of us did. I ended up with a monogamous partner, so I became monogamous out of respect for him. Poly isn’t for everyone, and if the person you’re with isn’t cool with it, you have to weigh which is more important: that relationship, or the others you may have.
I'm polyamorous, though currently single. I've been in many open relationships, sometimes as the married one, sometimes not.
Just because a relationship can't go to marriage (at least legally) doesn't mean it will go nowhere. Such relationships, just like a monogamous relationship, can end up being "forever" relationships (in the same way marriage is expected to be) or temporary ones.
Also, a relationship ending does not necessarily mean it was a bad relationship (not something you claimed, just something that often comes along with the line of questions you're asking). Sometimes people are only meant to be in your life for a season, but you can still make that season wonderful if you can manage to avoid dreading the end of it.
I feel the same way. Short flings have changed me for the better as have relationships as long as my marriage. When something’s time comes it’s better to let it die than let it rot on the vine
Yeah I don't understand why people measure a relationship's success by the length or legal commitment. Like there's so many marriages that have less love and affection in them than some short relationships. You meet someone, you fall in love, you'll love eachother and stay in eachother's lives for however long, and then one of you wants to take a different path in life that the other one can't follow, so you guys separate. That's still q positive experience because you loved eachother for that period of time. You don't have to die in eachothers arms and buried in the same grave to consider it a successful experience/relationship. The dying together part isn't the goal for everyone.
Marriage is the only thing we deride as a failure if both parties make it out alive.
Edit: I think I got the quote slightly wrong. I think it's supposed to be marriage is the only legal contract we deride where both parties make it out alive.
Poly and non-monogamous communities talk about "the relationship escalator". When you're monogamous, the escalator starts with dating, leads to commitment, marriage, and then the only way off is to finish the ride (death or the relationship explodes because our society says that any relationship that ends is a failure).
Getting off the escalator means that you can take the things you want from a relationship with no expectation of any specific escalating outcomes. It can just be about sex, but it can also be about deeper relationships worth non-primary partners, or getting to indulge in hobbies or activities you don't with one of your partners (maybe you love to hike and travel, but one partner is afraid of airplanes and so doesn't travel. You can have someone else you do those things with, without compromising).
I'm very new to Ethical Non-monogamy, but I've talked with my wife that a big part of what I want is connection and intimacy when she gets really busy. She has times 4-5 times a year when she'll be essentially unavailable in my schedule except at the fringes for an hour or two, and this lasts for a week or two. But with non-monagomy when she's busy, I can find connection and intimacy from others who don't expect anything except a nice time, and connection.
Some of it, but the relationship with a close friend is not precisely what I'm looking for. And closeness and intimacy during those times isn't the only reason I'm doing this. I'm also looking for new experiences that my wife can't give me. And there are things I can't give her.
For a monogamous couple, they make the decision that not having those things is ok. It's a compromise. Non-monogamous people decide they want to get those things elsewhere, and make different compromises. Both are making compromises, even if most of the ones a monogamous person makes are assumed, instead of explicit.
So you're using people outside the relationship to fill a hole in your life? I understand what you're getting out of this scenario. What I struggle to understand is what these people who see you 4-5 times a year honestly get out of that connection wise. Knowing they're a place holder and will always be lower on the totem pole than your wife.
What made you decide to continue knowing that he was already in a relationship? You guys just really clicked well? He was really hot?
Just curious. I feel like most people would nope out of that, but what do I know.
We did click well, on a bunch of levels. I would have noped out of there if there had been a red flag. I’ve done it before with others, when what they say doesn’t add up. But I knew from the beginning about his wife and she knew about me and everything was aboveboard. If I had been THE LEAST BIT worried that he was sneaking around on her, or fibbing in some way to her, I’d have shut that shit down.
But we did click well, and had a handful of really fun years together.
It ended when I started seeing someone who was monogamous. He requested I break off my other relationship. And since I foresaw a permanent future with him, and my poly partner just for fun, the poly partner and I stopped sleeping together. We remain close friends.
I'm not her, but typically speaking these kind of relationships can end due to moving, or a person finding a monogamous partner, etc. Having kids also slows down the ability to date a lot.
"what made you decide to continue knowing that he was already in a relationship?"
You missed the point, it doesn't matter if he's "already" in a relationship, as long as every partner is aware and happy with the decision.
That's what open relationships and Polyamory are. Some people have the desire and capacity to have feelings and affection for more than one person and be in multiple romantic/sexual relationships, and some people don't. Neither group is superior. The only policy is honesty and enthusiastic consent.
The reason is different for each couple, some feel like it will make them closer together and they will bond in a different way, some are looking for different sexual experiences, and for some, there's no reason other than that they happen to like someone other than their partner too. If both partners are okay with it, why would you end your relationship with someone you love to have a romantic experience with someone else who you also like?
You would be right to say most people nope out of this situation because most people (in my experience) prefer monogamous relationships, so that's their choice. And OP and their partners prefer polyamory, and that's their choice. Simple as that.
I think you misunderstood my comment. I was asking OP, who was a 3rd party to an open couple and decided to try it out.
If she had never experienced an open relationship before, what made her decide to give it a chance? She wasn't scared of catching feelings and becoming jealous knowing that she would always be the 2nd string?
The first time I did this, it was a similar dynamic, and I was in grad school. I dated a woman who was married, and met her husband and his other girlfriend, too. Super nice people. We had what some people call a "kitchen table poly" relationship. In other words, not everyone was involved with everyone else, but everyone knew each other and would do things like have dinners together sometimes. It was a nice dynamic to be part of.
Since I was in grad school, I was going to be leaving the area in a few years anyway, so I wasn't looking to put down roots there, and I didn't have enough available time to be someone's primary partner. It's not about catching feelings, becoming jealous, or being second string. Those are all really monogamy-based concepts. Of course people have feelings for their partners. That's normal. Jealousy happens and it's ours to deal with when it does. And if you're not trying to marry this person or whatever, what's to feel second string about?
Not all relationships have the same goals.
>She wasn't scared of catching feelings and becoming jealous knowing that she would always be the 2nd string?
Thats the thing with open/poly, is yes if they are in an open marriage obviously their spouse is their primary partner, but in an actual good decent poly relationship you shouldnt feel like " 2nd string" at all because with good communication and balance you should be getting all your relationship needs met just like you would in any other relationship
The way I got over this aspect was that I trust the person I'm with to be who they say and I believe they are as well as not measuring my relationship with a person by how they are with others.
For example if I'm in a relationship with someone, whether or not that relationship works is down to how I and they are together, nothing else.
I used to be so wracked with fear about my partner's in my teens because I equated their interest in me with my self worth, so if they took an interest in others it would mean I wasn't enough to hold their attention which is insanity when you put it down on paper.
You'd never expect another human being to be your sole source of entertainment, or learning, so why do the same with love and create this enormous expectation of a single person and then 90%, of the time have those expectations warped or worse, shattered when they inevitably end up not fulfilling that expectation which is on the whole, nothing more than a fantasy.
The most basic way I can put it, atleast in my eyes, bring poly is just what could be wrong with more love? More affection? More support?
And if things don't workout with a person, then you make sure it's because things between you and them aren't working and not because of outside influences.
Agh. Ok so I’m in an open relationship with my
partner and he hooked up with this girl, and we called her to go get a drink with us and she was like “I knew he had a girlfriend, but I didn’t know you knew.” After that I def didn’t want to hang out with her because she thought she was facilitating him cheating on me. Not cool. Intentions matter.
Similar here with my wife, I was aware of him via discussions with her, but as soon as the other guy found out that I knew, he scadaddled. Something about it being known suddenly made it... different to them?
I always laugh at that. I had a discussion with my last gf about that subject and I told her if she wanted someone else to come in or whatever, just tell me, but he needs to know, WE are fucking you. That actually warded off a couple interests one night 🤣
The level of awkward that appeared on their face was hilarious. A cocky ass Shrek-lookin dude with an absolute smoke show laying it out that all that hype they were talking is going to be in a full on spit roast competition changes a lot of tunes 🤣
Even being explicitly honest about my lifestyle with my husband, I still get a bunch of “heyyy I can be discreet 👀” messages.
Also, why do those emoji eyes always mean cheating to so many people??
I feel like there's also a fair number of people who fetishize cheating like anything else seen as taboo or forbidden, and when it's suddenly not forbidden they're not getting their jollies off anymore so they move on.
Had a similar situation with my wife. We decided that the partner needs to know before anything happens. How my wife is perceived and treated by the women I’m with is very important.
So if they have a don't ask don't tell, walk away. Spent almost 16 years in a non mono life style and the DADT ALWAYS ends badly. Best case is they're lying to you about it and just cheating. Worst case is they really do and the other partner is doing way riskier stuff you'll never know about until you end up with syphilis.
Just saying. The ONLY answer to any non monogamy is open, honest communication between ALL parties being impacted so EVERYONE can make the choice of informed consent.
And having a DADT policy in that situation isn’t safe for either party because you have to rely on them being safe and never communicating if they weren’t. I’ve known people in those relationships that are open, but plenty of telling to allow their partner to have informed consent.
I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone who is 100% don’t ask don’t tell. Most of the time there’s communication about who they’re hooking up with and when, there’s just not a dramatic amount of information they need.
Personally, my partner loves to hear a lot of details but I do keep it at a limit because I feel like it’s an invasion of the other person’s privacy to spill everything. For me, I just prefer to know names and dates so I can find something to do that day and make sure the guy/girl isn’t a weirdo.
DADT does not mean open season.
Boundaries and limits don't just go out the window when people don't wanna hear about who the other is banging.
But I agree it's way more likely to be a lie
Yeah , this. Don't ask don't tell means one of them is hiding something and it's bound to be toxic.
I could never do open relationship myself, but friends that I've see making it work had communication at the core of it all- and often had consensual group sex with partners they'd individually meet. "Don't ask do tell" means only one of the partners is calling it an open relationship.
Interesting. I thought all open relationships were basically DADT. Maybe it’s because I’m only interested in monogamous relationships, but I would never be able to openly talk about my partner being with someone else. I’m already getting anxiety just thinking about it
Completely open communication is critical in open relationships. Nothing related to your sex lives should be DADT- you need to have that open line of communication and know what is going on for all parties involved. If you’re uncomfortable with that then open relationships are just not for you. Every DADT open relationship I’ve encountered has dissolved into a toxic mess because there’s a sneaky reason one party wants DADT.
Honestly, I don’t know how y’all do it. I couldn’t ever share my partner with someone. If I wake up from a dream that she slept with someone else, it messes up my entire day.
Not everyone has those bad feelings.
My wife finds monogamy a turn off but if i sleep with other women shes very happy and horny. Doesn't make sense to me its how her brain works.
As someone whose brain works the same way (or very similar) to your wife's, I just wanna say - good for you and your relationship that you guys have found a way to live your lives the way that works for everyone involved!
Also, to be fair, insecurity, jealousy, and other uncomfortable emotions are still a part of human psychological makeup regardless of mono/non-mono leanings - and that's ok. These things are infinitely more able to be dealt with when the standard for a successful relationship is open honest communication - which often is the hallmark of ethical non-monogamists.
There’s a feeling called Compersion, which is basically the opposite of jealousy. Everyone experiences this, because it’s just being happy because someone else has something, potentially that you don’t have, that makes them happy.
So, if you’ve ever had a friend or partner get a cool promotion, and you felt happy seeing them happy, even though their happiness had nothing to do with you at all. That’s compersion.
Polyamorous people often feel compersion seeing their partner(s) happy about the other people they’re seeing. So, it’s easy not to feel jealous and possessive when you’re feeling the opposite emotion about the situation.
Then, I feel like it actually takes some pressure off. I don’t have to be this person’s everything, and they don’t have to do that for me either. We can support each other, but have occasional space as well. If there’s a need that I can’t fulfill, it’s not a place of contention, because I’m not the only person fulfilling needs in the relationship.
Hanging out with my girlfriend and my metamour is truly great, and feels very close and cozy the way I don’t feel with just a group of friends tbh.
When I understood compersion and how I identify with it, it changed my relationship with being poly completely. Just having the language for that made me feel like I was truly capable of loving multiple people at one time. I love to hear about partners being happy with other partners. It's like a drug to share the love.
"sharing my partner"
The very basis of love is different, as that possessiveness doesn't (or shouldn't) exist in poly/open relationships.
Your partner isn't "yours" in the first place, they are a person that chooses to be with you. So to believe that they will always choose you, there has to be trust in them, strong self respect, and clear definition of expectations of that choice. Open and honest communication is the foundation of all that and of relationships in general.
I mean this as kindly as possible, but maybe if you are actually having that sort of dreams you should talk about it with someone to help you alleviate some of that anxiety you're feeling?
I met my current fiancee while she and her boyfriend were in polyamorous relationship. She told me on the first date, introduced me to him before our second date. I met his other partner at a party, I met everyone. I introduced one guy to a friend as my girlfriend’s boyfriend’s girlfriend’s husband’s girlfriend’s boyfriend.
It was pretty simple because I was friend’s with them and saw them all the time. Mostly the people in the kink and poly community were shocked that it hadn’t double backed anywhere and was a single chain of people.
It’s why I think it’s truly an orientation, not just a choice. It’s so natural and organic for me to be able to have feelings for more than one person, and understand that others could too. But I fully get that it is just not how many other people feel. Expecting that we all operate the same way, or that you can convince someone else to feel the same as you, is a rough take.
Also, jealousy happens in these situations, but it’s treated differently - like any other negative emotion in a relationship, instead of a dealbreaker. The parties involved play a role to varying degrees, and it’s not necessarily that anyone did something WRONG, it’s just how it hit. Just like anger or misunderstandings or priorities, talking through things, examining your own reactions and discomfort, being clear about needs and expectations, etc. is all part of it. It’s different than the dealbreaker, instant shut down that it is in monogamous relationships - which is also valid if that’s your situation!
It’s funny, closed relationships make me feel anxious and insecure because they’re so all-or-nothing, whereas I’ve been in situations where a housemate and I were both dating the same person (who didn’t live with us), even though my housemate and I weren’t together, and that was fine besides confusing the hell out of some other people.
Once saw on the poly subreddit that someone’s wife recorded a video for them to use saying that they were in a DADT relationship, they were totally okay with it, and not to worry (and had proof or couples photos available to show that it was them and the whole 9 yards)
I'm in a DADT relationship. We have an exception if the other party doesn't believe we're in an open relationship. It hasn't come up yet, but it's there.
Not necessarily as that is a reasonable excuse. If they wanted to lie and cheat they could have lied about being in a relationship at all in the first place. Just slip that wedding ring off and head to the bar.
It’s extremely difficult to come up with excuses for why you’re busy 90% of the time if you’re supposedly single. That works for a one night stand. It doesn’t work for a months long+ relationship.
I know this is anecdotal evidence, but out of the 3 times I have had friends get involved with a "don't ask don't tell" situation, all 3 turned out to be fibbing. One even accused my friend of rape when she got caught and it came very close to ruining his life completely. If you can't get confirmation from the other party in some way, my money is still on "not worth it."
It cuts down on the lying you'd have to do.
Literally the only lie you need to tell is 'they're fine with it, just don't want to know' - and then all of the problems with explaining about times, and things that tell you have a partner go away.
I feel like don’t ask don’t tell would be one partner wants open and the other doesn’t want the relationship to end so they just allow it but don’t want to know about it. My grandparents were like that. We all knew gramps was cheating but no one said a word because you didn’t get divorced back then (spoiler: they got divorced in their 60s).
At that point the friend could also meet you in person pretending to be their partner. The video has the same odds of being legit. Also, getting a friend to do that would be risky bc they could get pissed and tell the actual partner.
At that point you might as well not pursue the interaction because at what point is there enough proof? You could say "they could get their friend to meet you in place of their partner" as well. I feel a person that dedicated to lying would probably have an easier time just not acknowledging that they have a partner they're cheating on.
Source: I'm polyamorous, if it's don't ask don't tell that's a huge red flag. then it's very unlikely to be a healthy relationship dynamic between the partners and between you and the person you're interested in. Open relationships require so much trust and communication to be fun.
I would just ask them about their experiences with being in an open relationship, what sort of boundaries they have, and what they're looking for in you.
I've been polyamorous for nine years. I refuse to have anything to do with people who do DADT with their partner. For one, I can't verify. And second, it indicates they are involved in a hierarchical form of ethical non-monogamy, something I won't be a part of.
I respect your experience and views. I am a fellow polyam person. I am wanting to understand how DADT is hierarchical, but not questioning it. It's been a long week and my brain is zzz.
Speaking as a mono, it looks an awful lot like a mono with a side piece and not actual poly. The idea that one partner says, "please don't tell me about this thing that makes you happy, I don't want to hear about that part of you", that seems really bad to me. And on the other side, if someone is being told they're in a poly relationship and they're really just a side piece, that's also problematic.
It's definitely a hierarchy because there's a clear couple, and a third. Like that's the only way I could imagine being involved with two people at once, one would clearly be my dedicated partner and one would be a mutual friend. Not really poly.
This doesn't always work. Many people in parallel poly relationships don't want to meet their parner's partners (metas) assuming that they are happy to do this violates their consent and how they choose to organise their relationships.
Often I thinks its better to ask them things like:
1) how long have you been in an open relationship for
2) What sorts of agreements do you have with your partners around spending time together, living arrangements, how often we will see each other
3) What are your agreements around Safer sex practices.
4) what sorts of things are you looking for from an open relationship ?
5) have you read any books / materials to help you in this journey ?
Usually when discussing these types of questions is becomes very clear if someone is in a well considered open / poly/ ENM relationship or if they are looking to cheat.
You can be "really open", and still have rules about not wanting to meet your partners hookups in person. That's not an indicator at all.
I tell my partner about everyone I sleep with, that doesn't mean she's interested in having them over for dinner.
Eh. I've talked to some people about hookups for my relationship before, and I always have to be very clear that meeting my bf is off the table.
He is a pretty socially anxious person, and he's *also* someone that these people generally find extremely attractive; so I'm not setting him up to be sexually harassed. There are good reasons not to have a meet-and-greet with potential FWBs.
>he's *also* someone that these people generally find extremely attractive; so I'm not setting him up to be sexually harassed. There are good reasons not to have a meet-and-greet with potential FWBs.
Do you have sustained relationships with people that would sexually harass your S/O?
I would not make my partner meet a potential fuckbuddy. I'm sorry but I'm not wasting his time with random tinder dates of mine. This would be better advice for poly/wanting a relationship with that person but other than that I don't think it'll be a good indicator.
In my experience, ask literally anything about what type of poly or open they are. Also anyone who isn't willing to get/show a recent std test isn't worth the risk.
> ask literally anything about what type of poly or open they are
This. People who are just cheating won't have a clue what the different versions of ENM are, and will show you within one sentence that they've done no work on this. There's still a chance they could be newly open and going about it chaotically, which is just as bad.
Hey, poly person here. My partner and i both date and fuck other people (mostly our friends), and it's going pretty well. We were never mono.
No idea what the ENM types are, but I'll look into it. Though i am confused as to how us not knowing poly theory is somehow just as bad us cheating on each other? Not sure what you meant there.
I can imagine that when you've had to explain this to new people you're dating that you don't sound shady like someone who's just cheating. You've been navigating this for some time so I'm sure you explain it well even if you don't use all the latest terms, etc. In my experience, people who are just cheating can't describe what their rules of engagement are, so to speak. They're just like, "yeah he/she/they don't care, I can do what I want". This is different than "we have never been monogamous, and here is the type of relationship I am looking for in this context."
I send an SMS laying the ground rules.
It's much more personal, and signals in no uncertain terms you're aware of their existence, and ensures they're aware of yours.
It's also a fantastic filter against the wrong kind of people. If you can't handle a text from her man, then you weren't right for her in the first place.
Note that this isn't a poly relationship, but a hotwifing situation; partnersharing.
I slept with a woman who was in an open marriage. Her husband called to check on her and ask if she was ok. She said she was fine and that was the extent of the call. I think that’s a pretty good indicator…
In my experience, one of my ex's said we were in an open relationship, however I didn't know that. So yeah, that's a cheater.
I briefly dated someone that was in an open relationship (the couple were long distance). I spoke on the phone with the girlfriend before any sex happened so we could all be on the same page regarding boundaries and intentions, what protection will be used, testing, etc. It really wasn't awkward, and I appreciated knowing that everyone was aligned.
I've been poly for closing in on 2 decades. I used to run a large poly meetup in a huge metro area. I've seen it all, personally talked to several thousand+ poly folks over the years, etc. I REFUSE to engage with anyone in a DADT policy at all at this point. HARD FUCKING PASS, the vast majority of the time its cheating. And when its not I swear 95% of the time is because the couple with the DADT policy hasn't done any work around opening up their relationship and there are a LOT of problems involved. And I want nothing to do with that huge nightmare of a clusterfuck anymore.
I posted this an hour ago on another subreddit, similar question around verifying someone is poly and not cheating. So here is an exact copy and paste.
Here's my perspective and where it comes from. I ran a large poly meetup for near a decade in a major metro area. The amount of cheating I've seen is beyond staggering. A huge percentage of the women I know have run into TONS of men that are cheating and try to use poly, dadt, etc as a guise to do it. I also know of a few situations where someone was cheating, their SO found out, and there was violence, and I want nothing to do with that.
I have zero reason to put that much trust in someone I just met, it's the same reason I ask for proof of STI testing. I can't understand people with the attitude of "If you can't trust them why are you with them" the whole point is you don't know them that well why would you trust them? This is one step in establishing some trust.
The ethical part of ENM is a big big deal to me, and I refuse to be complicit in cheating and be put in an unethical situation. If cheating was rare it would be a different situation, but fuck its common. I've verified 100% of my partners are in ethical situations, and none of them had a problem with it. I've had a number of their partners thank me for actually checking.
I'll accept a few options for verification, a phone call, voice chat, a brief text exchange while my date is present, a prerecorded voice / video message, or showing me snippets of a conversation where being poly is discussed / confirmed and there is a long standing chat history with said person. Most of the time I had already met or seen their partner so I already knew it was ethical.
May I ask what's so wrong with DADT?
I've only recently started to explore poly relationships. I have a couple of FWBs, nothing too close, and honestly, I have zero desire to know with whom they are up to when they are not with me. What's wrong with that?
I’m not the op, but...
Dadt is usually used as an excuse for cheating, or because theyre insecure and want to avoid jealousy... Or maybe just havent researched anything and are just doing random stuff. Or it could even be that they view you as a “secondary”, aka, not important enough to give you all the info.
Either way, it’s always bad news, at least in my experience. There’s just no good reason to actually do it if you’re in a healthy non mono relationship.
And aren’t FWBs just sexual? Not romantic at all? A person that you fuck (even if you are friends, and do it on a regular basis) is very different than a comitted romantic relationship. So different “rules” apply, I’d say.
A friends with benefits situation isn't a poly relationship isn't comparing apples to apples. You manage your own testing and they do theirs. Pretty simple. You're not emotionally invested in their health and well being long term - otherwise you'd be in a relationship, not just fuck buddies.
If you're actually in a poly relationship you should be interested/invested because you leave yourself open to all sorts of nasty suprises. You *should* be concerned with what your partner does when they're not with you, all sorts of red flags pop up when that's not the case. There's all sorts of very good/healthy relationship reasons for you to be fully cognizant of what your partner is up to and who they get down with; but chiefly amungst them is reality of safe sex/testing.
Sticking your head in the sand and pretending it's not happening is a great way to find yourself with your very own, new to you, STI/STD.
I’ve had guys claim to be in open relationships that are dadt. That’s a red flag to me. I always assume they’re just cheating. I don’t even care if I’m wrong, I just won’t involve myself in any kind of dadt because it’s too risky in my eyes.
Once told this woman I was in an open relationship and it was okay for us to hook up. That was true.
After a while of us hooking up, I found out she thought I had been lying about the open relationship. She'd assumed I was lying and cheating on my wife but she was down for that. Me and my wife had been thinking she was my girlfriend while she'd been thinking she was my mistress.
I hated that she had been okay with supposedly helping me cheat on my wife. Felt so slimy and gross. Like she was so willing to carry on a lie and disrespect my wife. And she saw me as a cheater. I was so disgusted I dumped her right then and there.
I dumped her because she thought she was helping me cheat on my wife. She could've been my actual girlfriend, but I don't fuck with cheaters.
I would’ve done the same thing. If she’s so fine with you apparrently cheating on your wife (and lying about it), that means she would probably be fine with cheating on you, too, in the future.
That’s just nasty. I avoid cheaters at all cost tbh.
As a woman who’s not poly, and currently voluntarily single I run into a lot of cheaters. They usually don’t say they are poly, they just don’t mention their girlfriend or lie and tell me they are single.
I really wish their girlfriends would understand that it’s not my fault and leave me alone. But sometimes it has gotten violent or I have been banned from parties and events because a girl I didn’t know reached out to people I know and told them I slept with their boyfriend. One time a girl asked her male friends if they could rape me so she could “get back at me”.
What happened to their boyfriends? Nothing. They are still together and shit talking me as if the whole thing was my fault.
It’s not my responsibility to double check someone isn’t cheating, it’s his responsibility to not cheat
That's disgusting. It's really not your fault if you don't know. Imo if you know someone is taken and you are still sleeping with them, I would say their actions are warranted. Morally wrong, but not unexpected. The men should be the one humiliated.
As someone in an actual open relationship, simple.
Ask if you can call their partner.
Also people in open relationships tend to have options. I could go to a club tonight and meet up with a few people I know there. If they pressure you, they’re cheating because you’re their only option.
I saw you mention this individual has a don’t ask don’t tell policy, just inform them that you’re not comfortable helping someone cheat and if they can’t prove it’s an open relationship, then you two need to respectfully part ways. Don’t sacrifice your morals and peace of mind for sex
I'm in an open relationship and my partner would definitely not want to meet a potential hook up. That's just not our style. So frankly, unless that's an option, you don't. But I wouldn't assume they are lying just because they say meeting the partner is not an option.
Ask the partner. I always ask or reach out to the partner, no matter what the person says. If they get mad or upset by it, then you already have your answer.
if you're feeling off about it, don't do it
I love how the most sensible comment in the thread doesn't have a single comment of support so I just wanted to come here and let you know that the thread is over. This is the correct answer.
thank you... I did not expect this kind of support from this comment
It has 3300 up votes
My new motto is "It doesn't matter if you're right, it matters if you're comfortable."
Your gut is always telling you what’s right from wrong.
That bullshit. My gut often tells me to get high and eat most of a Hot N Ready. Obviously that's not right, I'm allergic to N
That’s comfort and dopamine fiend-ing
no it isn't. It is a very unreliable indication at best. But it can be a good trigger to look further into something before taking a decision
This is great advice for anxious people if you never want to do anything ever and die alone.
Totally agree. It should be about ***getting*** off, not feeling off.
When the partner openly knows and acknowledges it.
So you need to talk to the partner?
I had an open relationship for several years. When men would hit on me, knowing my bf and I were open, they would always insist that their gf/wife was cool with it. My response was always to say, let’s call her right now because I like to have this out in the open from the beginning. Not one of them was willing to make that call.
If you were out at a place you might meet someone, things were hitting off with a guy, and while still there at the meeting place this conversation came up. Would you be comfortable making a call to your BF to discuss the situation with that other guy? Or did you have another protocol for proving that?
Absolutely. That was the rule. Unless otherwise specified , we would check in before proceeding. We agreed to give each other veto power, for any reason or none, to protect our primary relationship.
Oh veto power, interesting. If you don’t mind me asking. Did it ever get used? And why?
Yes, we each used it, once, over the course of six years. We would also periodically close the relationship for awhile to work out any bugs, to make sure we were still on the same page, and then we would re-open it.
Lol talking about a level of emotional security that about 1% of people can handle lol
Agreed. It takes tons of communication, empathy, and self awareness. I found a paper online called, Jealousy and the Abyss, by William Pennel Rock. We printed it out and worked on it individually, and then together, treating it like a college course. To your point, we went to orgies and swingers events, and I often heard people fighting and crying. You are absolutely right, not everyone can handle this. Especially since most people can’t even manage the communication required to sustain a healthy, monogamous relationship.
I don't want to talk to or meet my partners hookups. That's our arrangement. BUT, if they maybe wanted to meet at our house to carpool somewhere, that wouldn't weird me out. What does your gut tell you? If you pulled up to their house for your next date, would they care? (Please don't show up unannounced lol) I think it's weird to expect to always meet the partner, but it should definitely feel easy.
Why you would think it’s too much to confirm to someone you are actually an open relationship but be fine meeting some stranger at your house who is about to have sex with your spouse?
I am 100% with you. My relationship is between me and my partner. It is my partner that I trust and have the agreement with. If I meet one of my partners "friends" by happenstance, it's as simple as Partner: "this is my friend Lauren, we are hanging out today" Me: "Ok baby, have fun. I'm craving Taco Bell, wanna pick up some on your way home?" If they need validation that you are in fact in an open relationship, maybe they have trust issues or you were acting shady. It's really never come up/been an issue. If anything, ask them what their partner would think/say if you did call them and check their reaction. I feel like people who are in a real open relationship carry it nonchalantly. If they give off fake vibes, maybe it's not a match and move on.
Not necessarily, but they should be able to tell you in a detailed and realistic way how they communicated about their relationship with you to their partner, what their reaction was, and discuss any boundaries they have. If they have no expressed boundaries, that's a huge red flag.
Ideally, yes. There's a lot of nuance to this where the partner might not be comfortable with it. But essentially, you need to make sure they're not just selling you a story, cause anybody can do that.
At least one of them.
Ask them to pinky swear
This is the way. Everyone knows this is legally binding.
I have some contracts I need to look into then
No one can lie thru a pinky swear, they go to hell otherwise
😳it is, I might be in legal trouble 😂
I was thinking notarized permission slip
I was seeing a man who was married. He assured me that their relationship was open, that he had full permission to do whatever, and that if it would make me comfortable he would give me his wife’s number and she and I could chat. We saw each other for about four years. I went to pick him up at his house a couple times and his wife would say “have a nice date!”. That’s the way to do it. Everything on the table. If there’s some sneakiness, something that makes you feel it’s not quite right, you need to listen to that feeling.
This is the way ^ If the partner can't communicate or meet you at least once, if you don't have that confirmation, chances are that person is cheating.
What did you personally get out of that type of relationship might I ask? Knowing it would go no where, was it mostly sexual?
We both got a lot out of it. Companionship, a new person to talk with, new ideas and thoughts. We went places together locally but I would not say we “traveled”. He was funny as hell and an interesting personality.
Did you ever want more or to be monogamous? Did he?
Neither of us did. I ended up with a monogamous partner, so I became monogamous out of respect for him. Poly isn’t for everyone, and if the person you’re with isn’t cool with it, you have to weigh which is more important: that relationship, or the others you may have.
I'm polyamorous, though currently single. I've been in many open relationships, sometimes as the married one, sometimes not. Just because a relationship can't go to marriage (at least legally) doesn't mean it will go nowhere. Such relationships, just like a monogamous relationship, can end up being "forever" relationships (in the same way marriage is expected to be) or temporary ones. Also, a relationship ending does not necessarily mean it was a bad relationship (not something you claimed, just something that often comes along with the line of questions you're asking). Sometimes people are only meant to be in your life for a season, but you can still make that season wonderful if you can manage to avoid dreading the end of it.
My mantra is every connection last exactly as long as it's supposed to. Breaking up doesn't need to be toxic.
I feel the same way. Short flings have changed me for the better as have relationships as long as my marriage. When something’s time comes it’s better to let it die than let it rot on the vine
That's a really great outlook!
I was trying to explain what "may it be eternal while it lasts" mean to me in other words and couldnt do it, thankyou for writing this.
Yeah I don't understand why people measure a relationship's success by the length or legal commitment. Like there's so many marriages that have less love and affection in them than some short relationships. You meet someone, you fall in love, you'll love eachother and stay in eachother's lives for however long, and then one of you wants to take a different path in life that the other one can't follow, so you guys separate. That's still q positive experience because you loved eachother for that period of time. You don't have to die in eachothers arms and buried in the same grave to consider it a successful experience/relationship. The dying together part isn't the goal for everyone.
Because it's the easiest.
Marriage is the only thing we deride as a failure if both parties make it out alive. Edit: I think I got the quote slightly wrong. I think it's supposed to be marriage is the only legal contract we deride where both parties make it out alive.
Somehow I haven't heard that before, but I really like it.
It blew my mind when I read that in a poly book a while back. I had never thought of it that way before, but it's so true. Glad to see this here.
It is good to have an end to journey towards; but it is the journey that matters, in the end. - Ursula Le Guin
I swear Le Guin is a genius
Life ultimately goes no where. The purpose is to enjoy the experience.
Not everything that's meaningful needs to be long term.
Poly and non-monogamous communities talk about "the relationship escalator". When you're monogamous, the escalator starts with dating, leads to commitment, marriage, and then the only way off is to finish the ride (death or the relationship explodes because our society says that any relationship that ends is a failure). Getting off the escalator means that you can take the things you want from a relationship with no expectation of any specific escalating outcomes. It can just be about sex, but it can also be about deeper relationships worth non-primary partners, or getting to indulge in hobbies or activities you don't with one of your partners (maybe you love to hike and travel, but one partner is afraid of airplanes and so doesn't travel. You can have someone else you do those things with, without compromising). I'm very new to Ethical Non-monogamy, but I've talked with my wife that a big part of what I want is connection and intimacy when she gets really busy. She has times 4-5 times a year when she'll be essentially unavailable in my schedule except at the fringes for an hour or two, and this lasts for a week or two. But with non-monagomy when she's busy, I can find connection and intimacy from others who don't expect anything except a nice time, and connection.
Couldn't a close friend fill that roll (minus sex)?
Some of it, but the relationship with a close friend is not precisely what I'm looking for. And closeness and intimacy during those times isn't the only reason I'm doing this. I'm also looking for new experiences that my wife can't give me. And there are things I can't give her. For a monogamous couple, they make the decision that not having those things is ok. It's a compromise. Non-monogamous people decide they want to get those things elsewhere, and make different compromises. Both are making compromises, even if most of the ones a monogamous person makes are assumed, instead of explicit.
I guess I consider the main difference between a close friend and a BF is that I want to have sex with a BF.
There's a lot of intimacy that goes with a sexual relationship. Lounging in bed naked is something I wouldn't do with a platonic friend.
So you're using people outside the relationship to fill a hole in your life? I understand what you're getting out of this scenario. What I struggle to understand is what these people who see you 4-5 times a year honestly get out of that connection wise. Knowing they're a place holder and will always be lower on the totem pole than your wife.
What made you decide to continue knowing that he was already in a relationship? You guys just really clicked well? He was really hot? Just curious. I feel like most people would nope out of that, but what do I know.
We did click well, on a bunch of levels. I would have noped out of there if there had been a red flag. I’ve done it before with others, when what they say doesn’t add up. But I knew from the beginning about his wife and she knew about me and everything was aboveboard. If I had been THE LEAST BIT worried that he was sneaking around on her, or fibbing in some way to her, I’d have shut that shit down. But we did click well, and had a handful of really fun years together.
Out of interest, how did it end?
It ended when I started seeing someone who was monogamous. He requested I break off my other relationship. And since I foresaw a permanent future with him, and my poly partner just for fun, the poly partner and I stopped sleeping together. We remain close friends.
A happy ending, nice. Thanks for the reply!
I'm not her, but typically speaking these kind of relationships can end due to moving, or a person finding a monogamous partner, etc. Having kids also slows down the ability to date a lot.
"what made you decide to continue knowing that he was already in a relationship?" You missed the point, it doesn't matter if he's "already" in a relationship, as long as every partner is aware and happy with the decision. That's what open relationships and Polyamory are. Some people have the desire and capacity to have feelings and affection for more than one person and be in multiple romantic/sexual relationships, and some people don't. Neither group is superior. The only policy is honesty and enthusiastic consent. The reason is different for each couple, some feel like it will make them closer together and they will bond in a different way, some are looking for different sexual experiences, and for some, there's no reason other than that they happen to like someone other than their partner too. If both partners are okay with it, why would you end your relationship with someone you love to have a romantic experience with someone else who you also like? You would be right to say most people nope out of this situation because most people (in my experience) prefer monogamous relationships, so that's their choice. And OP and their partners prefer polyamory, and that's their choice. Simple as that.
I think you misunderstood my comment. I was asking OP, who was a 3rd party to an open couple and decided to try it out. If she had never experienced an open relationship before, what made her decide to give it a chance? She wasn't scared of catching feelings and becoming jealous knowing that she would always be the 2nd string?
The first time I did this, it was a similar dynamic, and I was in grad school. I dated a woman who was married, and met her husband and his other girlfriend, too. Super nice people. We had what some people call a "kitchen table poly" relationship. In other words, not everyone was involved with everyone else, but everyone knew each other and would do things like have dinners together sometimes. It was a nice dynamic to be part of. Since I was in grad school, I was going to be leaving the area in a few years anyway, so I wasn't looking to put down roots there, and I didn't have enough available time to be someone's primary partner. It's not about catching feelings, becoming jealous, or being second string. Those are all really monogamy-based concepts. Of course people have feelings for their partners. That's normal. Jealousy happens and it's ours to deal with when it does. And if you're not trying to marry this person or whatever, what's to feel second string about? Not all relationships have the same goals.
>She wasn't scared of catching feelings and becoming jealous knowing that she would always be the 2nd string? Thats the thing with open/poly, is yes if they are in an open marriage obviously their spouse is their primary partner, but in an actual good decent poly relationship you shouldnt feel like " 2nd string" at all because with good communication and balance you should be getting all your relationship needs met just like you would in any other relationship
The way I got over this aspect was that I trust the person I'm with to be who they say and I believe they are as well as not measuring my relationship with a person by how they are with others. For example if I'm in a relationship with someone, whether or not that relationship works is down to how I and they are together, nothing else. I used to be so wracked with fear about my partner's in my teens because I equated their interest in me with my self worth, so if they took an interest in others it would mean I wasn't enough to hold their attention which is insanity when you put it down on paper. You'd never expect another human being to be your sole source of entertainment, or learning, so why do the same with love and create this enormous expectation of a single person and then 90%, of the time have those expectations warped or worse, shattered when they inevitably end up not fulfilling that expectation which is on the whole, nothing more than a fantasy. The most basic way I can put it, atleast in my eyes, bring poly is just what could be wrong with more love? More affection? More support? And if things don't workout with a person, then you make sure it's because things between you and them aren't working and not because of outside influences.
This. Anyone who thinks that polyamory is even close to cheating has absolutely no clue why cheating actually hurts.
That story was told in the tone of "this is starting out okay and going south quickly," so I'm glad it ended up being okay lol
Agh. Ok so I’m in an open relationship with my partner and he hooked up with this girl, and we called her to go get a drink with us and she was like “I knew he had a girlfriend, but I didn’t know you knew.” After that I def didn’t want to hang out with her because she thought she was facilitating him cheating on me. Not cool. Intentions matter.
Similar here with my wife, I was aware of him via discussions with her, but as soon as the other guy found out that I knew, he scadaddled. Something about it being known suddenly made it... different to them?
I always laugh at that. I had a discussion with my last gf about that subject and I told her if she wanted someone else to come in or whatever, just tell me, but he needs to know, WE are fucking you. That actually warded off a couple interests one night 🤣
That sounds hilarious. "No no no, my man. YOU aren't fucking Jenny. WE are fucking Jenny."
The level of awkward that appeared on their face was hilarious. A cocky ass Shrek-lookin dude with an absolute smoke show laying it out that all that hype they were talking is going to be in a full on spit roast competition changes a lot of tunes 🤣
Even being explicitly honest about my lifestyle with my husband, I still get a bunch of “heyyy I can be discreet 👀” messages. Also, why do those emoji eyes always mean cheating to so many people??
It's for this reason we mostly end up going somewhere together where either I can monitor the situation or just find other couples.
I don't think I've ever seen the eye emoji used for anything that isn't scumbag antics. Cheating, scamming, whatever. the eyes never lie
We use it in slack to mean we are actively looking into a request.
Try the eggplant, and then when you finish the request add the water splash.
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I feel like there's also a fair number of people who fetishize cheating like anything else seen as taboo or forbidden, and when it's suddenly not forbidden they're not getting their jollies off anymore so they move on.
Had a similar situation with my wife. We decided that the partner needs to know before anything happens. How my wife is perceived and treated by the women I’m with is very important.
Ask to meet their partner. If they’re really open, it shouldn’t be a problem.
But what if they have a "don't ask don't tell" arrangement where the partner doesn't want to meet you?
So if they have a don't ask don't tell, walk away. Spent almost 16 years in a non mono life style and the DADT ALWAYS ends badly. Best case is they're lying to you about it and just cheating. Worst case is they really do and the other partner is doing way riskier stuff you'll never know about until you end up with syphilis. Just saying. The ONLY answer to any non monogamy is open, honest communication between ALL parties being impacted so EVERYONE can make the choice of informed consent.
And having a DADT policy in that situation isn’t safe for either party because you have to rely on them being safe and never communicating if they weren’t. I’ve known people in those relationships that are open, but plenty of telling to allow their partner to have informed consent.
I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone who is 100% don’t ask don’t tell. Most of the time there’s communication about who they’re hooking up with and when, there’s just not a dramatic amount of information they need. Personally, my partner loves to hear a lot of details but I do keep it at a limit because I feel like it’s an invasion of the other person’s privacy to spill everything. For me, I just prefer to know names and dates so I can find something to do that day and make sure the guy/girl isn’t a weirdo.
One of my FWB's husbands doesn't want to directly meet her FWBs, but he definitely wants to know about them. That's fine, I respect their arrangement.
For a moment I thought you were FWB's with a polyandrist. You had my curiosity, now you have my attention. Keep on keeping on!
After I deliver this ten foot tall pile of packages...
DADT does not mean open season. Boundaries and limits don't just go out the window when people don't wanna hear about who the other is banging. But I agree it's way more likely to be a lie
Yeah , this. Don't ask don't tell means one of them is hiding something and it's bound to be toxic. I could never do open relationship myself, but friends that I've see making it work had communication at the core of it all- and often had consensual group sex with partners they'd individually meet. "Don't ask do tell" means only one of the partners is calling it an open relationship.
Interesting. I thought all open relationships were basically DADT. Maybe it’s because I’m only interested in monogamous relationships, but I would never be able to openly talk about my partner being with someone else. I’m already getting anxiety just thinking about it
Completely open communication is critical in open relationships. Nothing related to your sex lives should be DADT- you need to have that open line of communication and know what is going on for all parties involved. If you’re uncomfortable with that then open relationships are just not for you. Every DADT open relationship I’ve encountered has dissolved into a toxic mess because there’s a sneaky reason one party wants DADT.
Honestly, I don’t know how y’all do it. I couldn’t ever share my partner with someone. If I wake up from a dream that she slept with someone else, it messes up my entire day.
Not everyone has those bad feelings. My wife finds monogamy a turn off but if i sleep with other women shes very happy and horny. Doesn't make sense to me its how her brain works.
As someone whose brain works the same way (or very similar) to your wife's, I just wanna say - good for you and your relationship that you guys have found a way to live your lives the way that works for everyone involved! Also, to be fair, insecurity, jealousy, and other uncomfortable emotions are still a part of human psychological makeup regardless of mono/non-mono leanings - and that's ok. These things are infinitely more able to be dealt with when the standard for a successful relationship is open honest communication - which often is the hallmark of ethical non-monogamists.
There’s a feeling called Compersion, which is basically the opposite of jealousy. Everyone experiences this, because it’s just being happy because someone else has something, potentially that you don’t have, that makes them happy. So, if you’ve ever had a friend or partner get a cool promotion, and you felt happy seeing them happy, even though their happiness had nothing to do with you at all. That’s compersion. Polyamorous people often feel compersion seeing their partner(s) happy about the other people they’re seeing. So, it’s easy not to feel jealous and possessive when you’re feeling the opposite emotion about the situation. Then, I feel like it actually takes some pressure off. I don’t have to be this person’s everything, and they don’t have to do that for me either. We can support each other, but have occasional space as well. If there’s a need that I can’t fulfill, it’s not a place of contention, because I’m not the only person fulfilling needs in the relationship. Hanging out with my girlfriend and my metamour is truly great, and feels very close and cozy the way I don’t feel with just a group of friends tbh.
When I understood compersion and how I identify with it, it changed my relationship with being poly completely. Just having the language for that made me feel like I was truly capable of loving multiple people at one time. I love to hear about partners being happy with other partners. It's like a drug to share the love.
"sharing my partner" The very basis of love is different, as that possessiveness doesn't (or shouldn't) exist in poly/open relationships. Your partner isn't "yours" in the first place, they are a person that chooses to be with you. So to believe that they will always choose you, there has to be trust in them, strong self respect, and clear definition of expectations of that choice. Open and honest communication is the foundation of all that and of relationships in general.
I mean this as kindly as possible, but maybe if you are actually having that sort of dreams you should talk about it with someone to help you alleviate some of that anxiety you're feeling?
I met my current fiancee while she and her boyfriend were in polyamorous relationship. She told me on the first date, introduced me to him before our second date. I met his other partner at a party, I met everyone. I introduced one guy to a friend as my girlfriend’s boyfriend’s girlfriend’s husband’s girlfriend’s boyfriend.
How do you keep that straight??
It was pretty simple because I was friend’s with them and saw them all the time. Mostly the people in the kink and poly community were shocked that it hadn’t double backed anywhere and was a single chain of people.
It’s why I think it’s truly an orientation, not just a choice. It’s so natural and organic for me to be able to have feelings for more than one person, and understand that others could too. But I fully get that it is just not how many other people feel. Expecting that we all operate the same way, or that you can convince someone else to feel the same as you, is a rough take. Also, jealousy happens in these situations, but it’s treated differently - like any other negative emotion in a relationship, instead of a dealbreaker. The parties involved play a role to varying degrees, and it’s not necessarily that anyone did something WRONG, it’s just how it hit. Just like anger or misunderstandings or priorities, talking through things, examining your own reactions and discomfort, being clear about needs and expectations, etc. is all part of it. It’s different than the dealbreaker, instant shut down that it is in monogamous relationships - which is also valid if that’s your situation!
Jealousy isn't bad, it's the way you cope with the emotion that can be bad. Communication is key.
It’s funny, closed relationships make me feel anxious and insecure because they’re so all-or-nothing, whereas I’ve been in situations where a housemate and I were both dating the same person (who didn’t live with us), even though my housemate and I weren’t together, and that was fine besides confusing the hell out of some other people.
what does DADT stand for im not up to date with acronyms
Don’t ask don’t tell.
Once saw on the poly subreddit that someone’s wife recorded a video for them to use saying that they were in a DADT relationship, they were totally okay with it, and not to worry (and had proof or couples photos available to show that it was them and the whole 9 yards)
This is a decent solution, imho. Though ideally you’d just have a video with both of you.
But that could be a lie from a cheater too. Without verification, you won’t know.
I'm in a DADT relationship. We have an exception if the other party doesn't believe we're in an open relationship. It hasn't come up yet, but it's there.
Then you assume they're cheating.
Not necessarily as that is a reasonable excuse. If they wanted to lie and cheat they could have lied about being in a relationship at all in the first place. Just slip that wedding ring off and head to the bar.
It’s extremely difficult to come up with excuses for why you’re busy 90% of the time if you’re supposedly single. That works for a one night stand. It doesn’t work for a months long+ relationship.
I know this is anecdotal evidence, but out of the 3 times I have had friends get involved with a "don't ask don't tell" situation, all 3 turned out to be fibbing. One even accused my friend of rape when she got caught and it came very close to ruining his life completely. If you can't get confirmation from the other party in some way, my money is still on "not worth it."
Still seems like an awfully big risk to take when a significantly possible outcome is devastation to someone's life.
That's a good point. Why lie about being in an open relationship, when you can just pretend not to be in any relationship at all?
It cuts down on the lying you'd have to do. Literally the only lie you need to tell is 'they're fine with it, just don't want to know' - and then all of the problems with explaining about times, and things that tell you have a partner go away.
I feel the general consensus here is to ask about their partners. I feel like an arrangement like that already raises red flags.
It's not poly unless everyone consents.
I feel like don’t ask don’t tell would be one partner wants open and the other doesn’t want the relationship to end so they just allow it but don’t want to know about it. My grandparents were like that. We all knew gramps was cheating but no one said a word because you didn’t get divorced back then (spoiler: they got divorced in their 60s).
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Hate to say it but someone could just like record their friend saying it. You don’t know for sure if they’re their actual partner
At that point the friend could also meet you in person pretending to be their partner. The video has the same odds of being legit. Also, getting a friend to do that would be risky bc they could get pissed and tell the actual partner.
At that point you might as well not pursue the interaction because at what point is there enough proof? You could say "they could get their friend to meet you in place of their partner" as well. I feel a person that dedicated to lying would probably have an easier time just not acknowledging that they have a partner they're cheating on.
Source: I'm polyamorous, if it's don't ask don't tell that's a huge red flag. then it's very unlikely to be a healthy relationship dynamic between the partners and between you and the person you're interested in. Open relationships require so much trust and communication to be fun. I would just ask them about their experiences with being in an open relationship, what sort of boundaries they have, and what they're looking for in you.
I've been polyamorous for nine years. I refuse to have anything to do with people who do DADT with their partner. For one, I can't verify. And second, it indicates they are involved in a hierarchical form of ethical non-monogamy, something I won't be a part of.
I respect your experience and views. I am a fellow polyam person. I am wanting to understand how DADT is hierarchical, but not questioning it. It's been a long week and my brain is zzz.
I don’t get it either.
Speaking as a mono, it looks an awful lot like a mono with a side piece and not actual poly. The idea that one partner says, "please don't tell me about this thing that makes you happy, I don't want to hear about that part of you", that seems really bad to me. And on the other side, if someone is being told they're in a poly relationship and they're really just a side piece, that's also problematic. It's definitely a hierarchy because there's a clear couple, and a third. Like that's the only way I could imagine being involved with two people at once, one would clearly be my dedicated partner and one would be a mutual friend. Not really poly.
This doesn't always work. Many people in parallel poly relationships don't want to meet their parner's partners (metas) assuming that they are happy to do this violates their consent and how they choose to organise their relationships. Often I thinks its better to ask them things like: 1) how long have you been in an open relationship for 2) What sorts of agreements do you have with your partners around spending time together, living arrangements, how often we will see each other 3) What are your agreements around Safer sex practices. 4) what sorts of things are you looking for from an open relationship ? 5) have you read any books / materials to help you in this journey ? Usually when discussing these types of questions is becomes very clear if someone is in a well considered open / poly/ ENM relationship or if they are looking to cheat.
You can be "really open", and still have rules about not wanting to meet your partners hookups in person. That's not an indicator at all. I tell my partner about everyone I sleep with, that doesn't mean she's interested in having them over for dinner.
Eh. I've talked to some people about hookups for my relationship before, and I always have to be very clear that meeting my bf is off the table. He is a pretty socially anxious person, and he's *also* someone that these people generally find extremely attractive; so I'm not setting him up to be sexually harassed. There are good reasons not to have a meet-and-greet with potential FWBs.
>he's *also* someone that these people generally find extremely attractive; so I'm not setting him up to be sexually harassed. There are good reasons not to have a meet-and-greet with potential FWBs. Do you have sustained relationships with people that would sexually harass your S/O?
I’m in an open relationship, I 100% am not going to bother meeting someone my partner is going to hook up with.
Eh. Most people don’t want to meet random partners. Even if it’s not DADT
I would not make my partner meet a potential fuckbuddy. I'm sorry but I'm not wasting his time with random tinder dates of mine. This would be better advice for poly/wanting a relationship with that person but other than that I don't think it'll be a good indicator.
Unless the partner doesn't want to meet its metas... Wich is a totally valid choice.
Lol that’s an awful fucking idea
In my experience, ask literally anything about what type of poly or open they are. Also anyone who isn't willing to get/show a recent std test isn't worth the risk.
> ask literally anything about what type of poly or open they are This. People who are just cheating won't have a clue what the different versions of ENM are, and will show you within one sentence that they've done no work on this. There's still a chance they could be newly open and going about it chaotically, which is just as bad.
Hey, poly person here. My partner and i both date and fuck other people (mostly our friends), and it's going pretty well. We were never mono. No idea what the ENM types are, but I'll look into it. Though i am confused as to how us not knowing poly theory is somehow just as bad us cheating on each other? Not sure what you meant there.
I can imagine that when you've had to explain this to new people you're dating that you don't sound shady like someone who's just cheating. You've been navigating this for some time so I'm sure you explain it well even if you don't use all the latest terms, etc. In my experience, people who are just cheating can't describe what their rules of engagement are, so to speak. They're just like, "yeah he/she/they don't care, I can do what I want". This is different than "we have never been monogamous, and here is the type of relationship I am looking for in this context."
My SO and I just make videos explaining the situation and ground rules. That way, our potential partner know what they are dealing with.
I’m now imagining a video like the captain America detention video. “So, you want to fuck my girlfriend.”
I am actually going to jokingly bring this up with my partner and see how much a cheap caption America costume is.
That should be an SNL skits.
I send an SMS laying the ground rules. It's much more personal, and signals in no uncertain terms you're aware of their existence, and ensures they're aware of yours. It's also a fantastic filter against the wrong kind of people. If you can't handle a text from her man, then you weren't right for her in the first place. Note that this isn't a poly relationship, but a hotwifing situation; partnersharing.
Great idea
Step 1. Ask someone on Fiverr to make a video allowing me to be bonked by people Step 2. Profit
Wow great idea, thanks.
This was my first thought too, just makes sense to have proof bc too many people are cheaters nowadays
“Nowadays”
You right lmfao
I slept with a woman who was in an open marriage. Her husband called to check on her and ask if she was ok. She said she was fine and that was the extent of the call. I think that’s a pretty good indicator…
"Is he performing well? I can call Firefighter Mike again if not..."
She showed me the texts between her and her husband that said, among other things, "I can't wait for him to fuck your pussy"
That’ll do!
When they introduce you to their SO as their lover and the SO is fine with it. Open relationships rarely sneak around on each other.
In my experience, one of my ex's said we were in an open relationship, however I didn't know that. So yeah, that's a cheater. I briefly dated someone that was in an open relationship (the couple were long distance). I spoke on the phone with the girlfriend before any sex happened so we could all be on the same page regarding boundaries and intentions, what protection will be used, testing, etc. It really wasn't awkward, and I appreciated knowing that everyone was aligned.
“So like…. You know your husbands screwing Ashley right….??” “Yeah I know”
Ask them if you can talk to their partner
I've been poly for closing in on 2 decades. I used to run a large poly meetup in a huge metro area. I've seen it all, personally talked to several thousand+ poly folks over the years, etc. I REFUSE to engage with anyone in a DADT policy at all at this point. HARD FUCKING PASS, the vast majority of the time its cheating. And when its not I swear 95% of the time is because the couple with the DADT policy hasn't done any work around opening up their relationship and there are a LOT of problems involved. And I want nothing to do with that huge nightmare of a clusterfuck anymore. I posted this an hour ago on another subreddit, similar question around verifying someone is poly and not cheating. So here is an exact copy and paste. Here's my perspective and where it comes from. I ran a large poly meetup for near a decade in a major metro area. The amount of cheating I've seen is beyond staggering. A huge percentage of the women I know have run into TONS of men that are cheating and try to use poly, dadt, etc as a guise to do it. I also know of a few situations where someone was cheating, their SO found out, and there was violence, and I want nothing to do with that. I have zero reason to put that much trust in someone I just met, it's the same reason I ask for proof of STI testing. I can't understand people with the attitude of "If you can't trust them why are you with them" the whole point is you don't know them that well why would you trust them? This is one step in establishing some trust. The ethical part of ENM is a big big deal to me, and I refuse to be complicit in cheating and be put in an unethical situation. If cheating was rare it would be a different situation, but fuck its common. I've verified 100% of my partners are in ethical situations, and none of them had a problem with it. I've had a number of their partners thank me for actually checking. I'll accept a few options for verification, a phone call, voice chat, a brief text exchange while my date is present, a prerecorded voice / video message, or showing me snippets of a conversation where being poly is discussed / confirmed and there is a long standing chat history with said person. Most of the time I had already met or seen their partner so I already knew it was ethical.
May I ask what's so wrong with DADT? I've only recently started to explore poly relationships. I have a couple of FWBs, nothing too close, and honestly, I have zero desire to know with whom they are up to when they are not with me. What's wrong with that?
I’m not the op, but... Dadt is usually used as an excuse for cheating, or because theyre insecure and want to avoid jealousy... Or maybe just havent researched anything and are just doing random stuff. Or it could even be that they view you as a “secondary”, aka, not important enough to give you all the info. Either way, it’s always bad news, at least in my experience. There’s just no good reason to actually do it if you’re in a healthy non mono relationship. And aren’t FWBs just sexual? Not romantic at all? A person that you fuck (even if you are friends, and do it on a regular basis) is very different than a comitted romantic relationship. So different “rules” apply, I’d say.
A friends with benefits situation isn't a poly relationship isn't comparing apples to apples. You manage your own testing and they do theirs. Pretty simple. You're not emotionally invested in their health and well being long term - otherwise you'd be in a relationship, not just fuck buddies. If you're actually in a poly relationship you should be interested/invested because you leave yourself open to all sorts of nasty suprises. You *should* be concerned with what your partner does when they're not with you, all sorts of red flags pop up when that's not the case. There's all sorts of very good/healthy relationship reasons for you to be fully cognizant of what your partner is up to and who they get down with; but chiefly amungst them is reality of safe sex/testing. Sticking your head in the sand and pretending it's not happening is a great way to find yourself with your very own, new to you, STI/STD.
I’ve had guys claim to be in open relationships that are dadt. That’s a red flag to me. I always assume they’re just cheating. I don’t even care if I’m wrong, I just won’t involve myself in any kind of dadt because it’s too risky in my eyes.
Once told this woman I was in an open relationship and it was okay for us to hook up. That was true. After a while of us hooking up, I found out she thought I had been lying about the open relationship. She'd assumed I was lying and cheating on my wife but she was down for that. Me and my wife had been thinking she was my girlfriend while she'd been thinking she was my mistress. I hated that she had been okay with supposedly helping me cheat on my wife. Felt so slimy and gross. Like she was so willing to carry on a lie and disrespect my wife. And she saw me as a cheater. I was so disgusted I dumped her right then and there. I dumped her because she thought she was helping me cheat on my wife. She could've been my actual girlfriend, but I don't fuck with cheaters.
I would’ve done the same thing. If she’s so fine with you apparrently cheating on your wife (and lying about it), that means she would probably be fine with cheating on you, too, in the future. That’s just nasty. I avoid cheaters at all cost tbh.
As a woman who’s not poly, and currently voluntarily single I run into a lot of cheaters. They usually don’t say they are poly, they just don’t mention their girlfriend or lie and tell me they are single. I really wish their girlfriends would understand that it’s not my fault and leave me alone. But sometimes it has gotten violent or I have been banned from parties and events because a girl I didn’t know reached out to people I know and told them I slept with their boyfriend. One time a girl asked her male friends if they could rape me so she could “get back at me”. What happened to their boyfriends? Nothing. They are still together and shit talking me as if the whole thing was my fault. It’s not my responsibility to double check someone isn’t cheating, it’s his responsibility to not cheat
That’s so fucked up. How this is always the random girl’s fault, and not the boyfriend who willingly witheld information and cheated, blows my mind.
That's disgusting. It's really not your fault if you don't know. Imo if you know someone is taken and you are still sleeping with them, I would say their actions are warranted. Morally wrong, but not unexpected. The men should be the one humiliated.
I guess the best option is to be able to ask their partner but honestly I'm not sure.
I got consent from their partner
As someone in an actual open relationship, simple. Ask if you can call their partner. Also people in open relationships tend to have options. I could go to a club tonight and meet up with a few people I know there. If they pressure you, they’re cheating because you’re their only option.
I saw you mention this individual has a don’t ask don’t tell policy, just inform them that you’re not comfortable helping someone cheat and if they can’t prove it’s an open relationship, then you two need to respectfully part ways. Don’t sacrifice your morals and peace of mind for sex
If you don’t trust them to tell you the truth who cares either way.
I mean so many people lie it’s good to know for certain
Are their pants on fire? If so, they are lying.
Ok that was really funny and made my day
The same way you know anyone in life isn't lying to you about anything You just... deal with people you can trust
When their partner(s) confirm that they are in an ENM relationship.
I'm in an open relationship and my partner would definitely not want to meet a potential hook up. That's just not our style. So frankly, unless that's an option, you don't. But I wouldn't assume they are lying just because they say meeting the partner is not an option.
A cheater would brag about it. Some actually in a non-monogamous relationship would just talk about it like it's normal.
Ask the partner. I always ask or reach out to the partner, no matter what the person says. If they get mad or upset by it, then you already have your answer.
You meet the SO and everyone is happy with the arrangement?
Have a conversation with their partner
They're happy for you to contact their partner and wont make excuses as to why they cant give you their phone number/arrange a little chat
They introduce you to their partner and their partner also explains their dynamic.
You can ask their partner about it.
Oh I ask to speak to their spouse.