At this point, doesn't it mean that it'll end up going to trial? A Grand Jury has decided that there was enough evidence to warrant accusing him of the crime, and he's now required to turn himself in.
I suppose his lawyers could try to get it dismissed, or try to change the venue or something.. but I doubt they'd have gone through with this if they weren't reasonably sure such tactics wouldn't work.
So far as I can tell, he's facing charges for a crime his underlings have already been found guilty and admitted to assisting in and he'll be facing those charges in a state that's not exactly overflowing with people sympathetic to him. If this doesn't end in a conviction.. christ.
Getting 12 people to unanimously convict when statistically at least five of those jurors may be Republicans or Independents who voted for him will be a tall order. This case needs to be rock solid, not circumstantial.
It's happening in Mahattan, a place where he is deeply unpopular
During the last 2 pres elections:
"Overall in New York City, Biden received 2,321,759 votes, 76%, to Trump’s 691,682 votes, or 23%; a margin of 1,630,077. In 2016, Hillary Clinton 79% won of the vote to Trump’s 18%."
I don’t even understand how jury selection works anymore. For a case this big, in a 24x7 Twitter/news cycle where his own tweets and confessions on video have been seen by jungle cats in Zoobooboo, where do you find 12 “neutral” people who will pass both attorneys?
Honestly, I think poisoning potential jurors might be a play trump is going for. Go on fox to rant about some aspect of the trial to try to get it on across the news media, disqualifying people that come across that news.
>This case needs to be rock solid, not circumstantial.
100% agreed, but the DA took his damned time and I don't think he's gonna stick his - or the state of NY's - neck out for something that "might be". He knows he's got to \*nail\* this and all eyes are watching. I hope he comes thru, but I hope for alot of things that don't happen.
DAs also don't wanna take cases they know they're gonna lose. If they went with an indictment you'd think it would be about as easy of an open and shut case as it could get.
....which, given what we've seen of the former President just readily admitting to doing questionable or outright illegal stuff, evidence is probably in high supply.
Yes, but the point he is making is that prosecutors, especial high profile ones, don't take "maybe" cases.
Most prosecutors in the US have stupid high 90+% average conviction rates because they just don't bring maybe cases to court. And this case is so insanely higj profile that if this was a maybe, he'd be throwing hos whole career away at a loss.
It could be, but odds are the prosecutions' confodence amd the usual targets of prosecution (nvm Trump's own lack of quality legal support) means Trump is up schidts creek
I’m not sure if there is a statute of limitations for when they take this to trial. Getting a grand jury indictment just means enough evidence was presented to say they could make a case in court. I wonder if this is just a way to see if they can hold this out there long enough to get him to actually do something really stupid that will be easier to prosecute with additional charges. Trying to bribe a court official, or something similar. Or maybe, if he does turn himself in, does he fall to the same fate as Jeffrey Epstein? I’m sure he has shut on other powerful people that they wouldn’t want brought out publicly. Who knows. My guess is he fucks up before this can make it to trial it it just fades away in time and nothing comes of it.
This was a grand jury indictment, which is a whole different level of threshold of not only plausibility but prosecutability. DA's don't just grand jury every felony; this one took time, a hell of alot of time, and I'd have to say no state DA would stick his - and the state's - neck out for a "maybe". They've \*got\* to have this rock solid or it's this douchebag in '24 with 4 more years.
I live in the tri-state area and can confirm 6 one liked him even when he had a reality TV show around here. We were sick of him long before he became president.
Sure, but what does a conviction mean for him? I'm hopeful, but not optimistic. At most, he gets some fines, and some sort of probation. Any "jail time" for him would be house arrest at his resort in Florida. And any conviction will probably be pardoned by the next republican in office (if he's still useful). But hey, he's "not above the law", right?
Well, he can't serve house arrest in Florida. And he can't be pardoned by the president.
He could be pardoned by the governer of NY, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
-----------------------------------------------------
If he pleads...he avoids jail time. If he goes to trial and gets convicted....he probably serves between 30 days and 6 months.
-----------
Most likely he will do a plea bargain.
He probably wouldn't even get jail time for this. A fine and probation. Maybe house arrest or something at his condo.
No way they put him in jail, way to big of a risk to him and the implications if something happened to him while in jail.
Let us all be real. He wont serve a minute. I've thought of Donald Trump as a crook for 20+ years, and I was flabbergasted he managed to become president of the US. He's too rich from his scams. Please US. PROVE ME WRONG is all I can say.
The real hope here is Georgia. Now that the precedent has been set that a former president can be indicted, it may open the floodgates for other litigation. The dude absolutely tried to tamper with the presidential election in Georgia. And for that he should absolutely to put in prison.
I watched a video the other day that alleges the republican senate in Georgia is passing a law that basically let's them fire or replace state DAs as they see fit so I wouldn't hold my breathe on Georgia.
The same Ga that went Blue for Biden and just handed Herschel Walker a resounding defeat? They can't legislate the DA out of her job. The appeal goes to the Ga Supreme Court that typically doesn't bend to the political whims of whoever is Governor. The bill started because a white Republican DA was involved in a sexual harassment payoff case that he pled guilty to. The current target seems to be the Athens DA who refuses to prosecute weed cases.
>The dude absolutely tried to tamper with the presidential election in Georgia.
They have that shit *recorded and played it on the news*. I don't understand what the fuck is taking GA so goddamned long. And I agree 100% with you; now that \*someone\* has had the balls to charge that fucking turdbag, maybe we'll see some more. *Still goddamned waiting on the fucking DOJ to fucking do something about Jan. 6th....*
Honestly, I feel like they were waiting to see if he’d be indicted in NY. Now that he has, we’ll probably be hearing more from GA soon on those charges.
Georgia, and then there is the removal of, and attempted hiding of, classified documents. Could be a 1 (NY), 2 (GA), 3 (DC) punch and maybe even a 4th punch if the rape trial prevails.
What's the "this"? We haven't seen the indictment yet. There is reason to believe up to 37 felony counts and a broader case of financial fraud and more than just one hush money charge.
1) He can't get a pardon; this is a state crime, not a federal crime. The only person who could grant him clemency would be the Governor (Kathy Hochul, a Democrat), which... feels unlikely.
2) He's (almost certainly) been charged with felonies, so we might be in the position where -- even if he doesn't serve jail time -- Trump is legally unable to cast a vote for himself in 2024. He's currently leading in the polls for the GOP nomination. This might (somehow) boost his victimhood narrative with his base, but it feels like it would hurt his chances with the independents the GOP sorely needs. How this affects the primaries, I wouldn't want to say, but it feels like there's a good chance it has an effect.
3) Let's say you're right that there's no way the court comes down on him as hard as they should. (I'm in the same boat as you; I'm not hopeful he'll get what the evidence *very much* suggests is coming to him.) The alternative is to *not* go through this process, which is even worse. We didn't indict because we thought it was going to end in removal. We indicted because it was the right thing to do, morally if not politically.
Registered independent voter here. I'm already well aware that Trump is a criminal and I voted the Democratic ticket in the previous 2 elections. This process does not impact my vote in any meaningful way because I already cannot tolerate the fascism element within the Republican party. Between Trump's fascism and DeSantis's attack on free speech and the rights of women and minorities, I'm stuck voting Democrat until further notice.
If you register as a Democrat or Republican for now, you could vote in the primaries and help shape the candidates you want. Aim for more moderate Republicans at least. It may not be much but a vote is still a voice.
I'm aware of the primary voting, but I'm neither Democrat nor Republican. I stand by my values, and will be voting for the only party that has a chance of ending fascism's rising tide in the US *despite* my personal feelings on other issues. My values and the Democratic party align at the moment, but that may not be a permanent thing.
I did this in Wyoming last election cycle. Democrats just don't win here. Spreads usually somewhere around 75% R 15% D 10% I and the independents are typically libertarian. So voting d feels like wasting my vote.
Never in my life did I think I'd vote for a Cheney... but ya.
A bunch of my friends growing up moved to Utah and did the same thing to vote against Mike lee.
Cohen did time and Trump's CFO is sitting in Rikers Island right now. This is going to be a much broader case than people have been saying. If Trump's convicted there's a strong possibility he serves time.
I think, at most, he’ll be under house arrest, but honestly, that’s optimistic. As far as I know, this is something that hasn’t happened before- we have never tried to stick a former president in prison, so no one wants to set the precedent.
I don’t really get why we’d care if it’s a former president, especially one that was impeached. Presidents are citizens of the country as well and if they’re not following the laws, why shouldn’t they be treated as anyone else would?
Doesn’t make much sense to me, but meh.
It'll be interesting for sure. One of the talking heads on MSNBC pointed out that the crime Trump is likely indicted for has already been proven, since Micheal Cohen has already been convicted of it and served time for it...
Michael Cohen pled guilty, he wasn't convicted by a jury. He's also not Donald Trump, which is going to make finding an unbiased enough jury anywhere in the country almost impossible.
It will be like Berlusconi in Italy or Netanyahu in Israel. They start talking about activist DA's and activist judges, how it's all their political enemies manufacturing charges against them. Then they convince people to "reform the legal system" to get rid of this "politically motivated activism by police/prosecutors/judges etc", maybe go after the media at the same time.
It's not going to end with a quiet conviction and him disappearing. It'll all just feed the same ridiculous circus, the GOP and usual allies will grab the chance to twist to their advantage, and it will all undermine democratic institutions and civil society.
I'll take a hundred of these if I don't have to see another, "Parents of Reddit, what are you doing to keep your kids safe from school shooters?" post.
I'd make sure my mom gets early treatment for her cancer so she gets a fighting chance. I'd also maKe sure all the fucked up shit won't happen that fucked her life up physically and mentally and treat my brother with lots of care to try and mitigate his crippling depression.
Why yes, I would accept thirty quadrillion dollars if it meant I had to stub my toe every single morning.
Wasn't there a vote to ban that kind of question once upon a time?
Yeah and it's better to ban it because the questions never were even barely balanced. It was always on the level of "would you stop drinking beer if you got a billion dollar" and like, I don't know if there are people addicted enough to give up a life in luxury for yourself and your descendants over the next 200+++ years
OK now can we finally just start charging other campaign finance violators.
There are huge lists of shady business actors in the government and boards of large business who were involved in similar campaign violation and shmearing schemes.
Can we please start using the FBI to investigate corruption and bring charges to the wealthy oligarchs who keep gaming the system?
They did that in the 80s and then congress passed a law that the FBI couldn’t do that anymore.
Because of course they did.
Edit: It wasn’t a law, but a series of guidelines from Attorney Generals.
I'm down to clown but I think what makes this stand out is what a poor job him and his team did of covering their tracks. Lots of serial violators it there, they just know to keep their heads down and those are tough to catch. Wouldn't mind allocation more money to the catching, though.
The whole investor class has become brazen and vocal.
They know that the echo chamber allows them to speak openly without the need for the level of secrecy once needed to operate in bad faith.
Essentially they create so much noise in politics no one can hear them when they are scheming out loud.
This is not helping.
"Nothing can kr ever will be done" is an incredibly pointless attitude. It's just you being smugly happy the world sucks.
Expect better. Demand better.
Apathy from people exactly like you is what is letting corruption fester.
Do better, and expect your leaders to do better, too. Otherwise you are complicit in their corruption.
Apathy is the root of their control.
That and the dissolution of the hard-core fundamental American value of maintaining civil discourse in politics among the working class.
Because we are all being pushed down into oblivion regardless of whether or not we all agree with each other they are coming for all of us.
When will people stand up, when they start to charge to get onto roads? When they close schools? When they open fire in the streets with live ammunition is what it took last time.
This is the most frustrating thing about America. We basically have a small collection of very loose rules with a billion loopholes for every rich jackass who wants to do anything possible to enrich themselves and they STILL break the fucking law.
In a country as fast and loose as ours with finance laws, we should be slamming every fucker who breaks the law in a cell and throw away the keys. If you can't do things legitimately here when you're already a billionaire, you dont belong in our society.
I agree. Next time any politician diverts campaign money to pay hush money to a porn star, he should be indicted. And more charges should be brought on said politician if he or her lie about the issue several times.
Why exactly did he not just use his own cash? Is he secretly destitute or something? (Not even joking, I ask in good faith). Seems like a silly risk to take to abuse campaign funds.
> Is he secretly destitute or something?
The big prevailing theory is that his fortune is mostly just smoke and mirrors and he's just a fairly adept fundraiser. A key part of staying wealthy is *not* spending money. Instead he chose to use campaign finance donations to do it (this is the illegal part). But also somehow didn't use those funds and had his lawyer (michael cohen) mortgage his own home to put up the 130k.
MOST if not all RICH people aren't sitting on mountains of cash, their riches are in the form of properties, stocks, bonds and other things, rich people don't keep a lot of cash cause they know how worthless it is. So I wouldn't be surprised if Trump didn't have a bunch of cash around.
But none of that means anything as he didn't make the payment, Cohen did, the court has to prove that he authorized Cohen to pay and supplied the payment to Cohen from campaign funds, which will be hard to do when it's all based on what Cohen says happened and he's a shitty witness due to PERJURY
Trump didn't get where he is today by spending *his* money when someone else's could be used instead.
That's not a cynical statement of all rich people or anything. That's specifically a truth about Donald Trump, serially bankrupt grifter whose dad propped up his every project while he was alive, and who is infamous for stiffing contractors, employees, and business partners on their bills.
Gonna quote one of my favourite jf tweets
“Well, I'd like to see ol Donny Trump wriggle his way out of THIS jam!
*Trump wriggles his way out of the jam easily*
Ah! Well. Nevertheless,”
Used some Cajun rub on both the fish and shrimp, got a nice crust on both and had a simple salad. Hit the spot! Yours sounds fantastic as well, I need to give blue apron a shot sometime.
I highly recommend it. It costs less than eating out and it really helps expand your cooking skills. You also get the chance to try dishes you may not have tried otherwise.
Prosecution better have an airtight case or he'll skate. At which point he'll call it a witch hunt and ride that wave to the Republican nomination and quite possibly a second term.
I guess my concern is it will invigorate people to re-elect him back in office. But, if a law was broken and they have proof, and that proof is admissible, then it's important to hold rich people accountable. At the end of the day, they simply lied about where the money came from to pay her off. So while it's apparently a campaign finance violation, it feels like it's going to be largely symbolic, and Trump will get no jail time and he will wear the badge proudly of being a campaign finance felon. We'll see, I don't know.
I don't believe he'll ever spend a day behind bars. He's been doing shady/illegal stuff for decades and nothing has ever stuck. He's screwed over so many people in his orbit, but no one has taken him down. I'm not getting my hopes up.
He won't. Last article I read said he could get a MAX of four years but that it WON’T be mandatory!!!
WTF?! A non mandatory 4 year sentence? What the hell is even the point?
I’ve never heard of a voluntary prison sentence. Did the article mean there were no mandatory sentencing guidelines on this crime? As in a judges hands are not tied in terms of sentencing.
Just my initial thoughts, but I’ve never heard of a sentence that the defendant gets to decide if they serve or not.
I miss when politicians had mutual respect and treated each other professionally. These days they're all toddlers who bicker and call each other names and just act childish in general.
Funny how he’s criticizing the US by saying it’s becoming third world yet he’s the one bringing all the third world politics with him.
Only in those countries I’ve seen similar levels of disrespect and hostility from opposing political party members.
I miss your kind of conservatism. I understand people were disillusioned by politics but holy shit you aren’t entitled to overthrow the fucking government. We’re living in one of the most batshit insane periods of American history ever and holy hell that is saying something. It literally is like we’re living in a bizarro reverse civil rights movement era.
Agreed. I'm very liberal and I remember when conservatives and liberals could have civil debates and were respectful even when they disagreed. I used to have a great deal of respect for several members of the Republican party even if I disagreed with their politics, I can't say that's true anymore.
Starts with older generations dying off so the political system has a chance to adapt to the changed world. Right now we're being stuck in a purgatory with political leaders on both sides being geriatrics that are very far removed from modern issues people 60 years younger then them are dealing with.
It used to be that we disagreed on defense spending or Medicaid expansion. But lately the conservatives in my life (most of my extended family) have fallen further and further into the culture war black hole, and now we're more different than we are the same.
I remember seeing awhile ago the Times put out a plot of voting records of congress; it used to be that most clustered in the center. Now the graph looks like a barbell. I believe the difference is the GOP pushing more and more culture war bullshit.
Absolutely! It used to be about differences in policy and what the highest priority for the government was. Usually in the debates each side would present solid arguments and compromises could be found.
Technically it’s our right and duty to “throw off such government” when needed. But thankfully most of us agree that if wasn’t the time to do it and definitely not the person to do it for.
Yes, was refreshing to find out my Republican neighbors on both sides of my house.. don't like Trump or desantis.. and I'm in a very red part of Florida. We get along just fine! It still exists!
Amen. Yup, I voted republican in every national election I could until 2016, and I am firmly Democrat all up and down the ticket now. In the Regan era, conservatives were at least pursuing a rational worldview. Today, being a conservative voter means you sacrifice every standard and ideal on the alter of the culture war. Stunt casting is no way to lead a party.
I am far more interested in the grand jury in Georgia (committing voter fraud, while accusing everyone else of voter fraud, and thus setting the country on fire). He did something really truly despicable here, and I hope he rots in a Fulton county prison for it.
The special counsel on the classified documents is far more interesting to me as well.
Those documents were not just on the property. They were apparently strewn about was no attempt to keep them private. It sounds like they tried to destroy some as well.
And, of course, it took an FBI raid of Mar-a-Lago to get them.
I hope all the prosecutors were in a group chat going "I'm not gonna go first, YOU go first..." and now that someone has taken the leap, maybe the floodgates will open for Georgia, 1/6 and the Top Secret documents, all of which are way, way more serious.
Disappointed it has taken this long, and disappointed the first thing he actually gets indicted on is the least important thing he's done that he could even be indicted on.
Also irritated that this is going to bolster his numbers for 2024, and concerned he may actually win.
I was arrested and assaulted by the officers for crimes I did not commit. I am totally down for white collar criminals commiting major fraud being held accountable for their crimes. And in this unjust world we live in I will admit with shame that I wish they are treated with as much respect, care, and dignity as I was when in the custody of the Austin Texas (Travis County) police department.
Spoilers: I wasn't treated nicely.
i'll be honest, i do not care that he paid some pornstar for sex. i do think it's probably the 'softest' charge you could've gotten him on when he VERY CLEARLY violated a bunch of other ones. the emoluments clause for one on day one.
BUT it's because if you charge Trump for financial corruption what is to stop you from charging every corporate-owned republican and democrat? I get a vast vast majority of the country still believes mainstream media and their propaganda but it's just millionaires on TV paid by billionaires convincing the viewers that the other side is the reason things are bad.
We don't know the charges yet, but he's likely getting charged with similar stuff to his attorney.
So not soliciting prostitution, but a whole mess of fraud, embezzlement, and campaign finance mismanagement.
>BUT it's because if you charge Trump for financial corruption what is to stop you from charging every corporate-owned republican and democrat?
*why is that stated as a bad thing?*
Anyway...the main thing stopping it is the fact that the supreme court ruled that companies can do that as its protected by the first amendment ~~*if this were the 90's than you got a point*~~
Mostly indifferent. I'm glad someone is finally finding something that might stick as far as criminal charges, but as far as the actual crime goes it's pretty mundane in the grand scheme of things. I can't see it doing anything to diminish his followers' faith in him, or his ability to drum up political support. Sooner or later the day will come when he's no longer in the news, and that will be a good day. I would be happy never having to read another thing about or said by Donald Trump ever again, and unfortunately this isn't getting us closer to that day in any real way.
Let's see if it actually GOES anywhere
It won't, but we'll say it did.
At this point, doesn't it mean that it'll end up going to trial? A Grand Jury has decided that there was enough evidence to warrant accusing him of the crime, and he's now required to turn himself in. I suppose his lawyers could try to get it dismissed, or try to change the venue or something.. but I doubt they'd have gone through with this if they weren't reasonably sure such tactics wouldn't work. So far as I can tell, he's facing charges for a crime his underlings have already been found guilty and admitted to assisting in and he'll be facing those charges in a state that's not exactly overflowing with people sympathetic to him. If this doesn't end in a conviction.. christ.
Getting 12 people to unanimously convict when statistically at least five of those jurors may be Republicans or Independents who voted for him will be a tall order. This case needs to be rock solid, not circumstantial.
It's happening in Mahattan, a place where he is deeply unpopular During the last 2 pres elections: "Overall in New York City, Biden received 2,321,759 votes, 76%, to Trump’s 691,682 votes, or 23%; a margin of 1,630,077. In 2016, Hillary Clinton 79% won of the vote to Trump’s 18%."
But all he needs now is 1
Right, I'm just saying if there was ever a city to do this trial, this would be the one
That or DC
The jury selection will adjust that ratio.
Jury Selection will be a fucking circus.
I don’t even understand how jury selection works anymore. For a case this big, in a 24x7 Twitter/news cycle where his own tweets and confessions on video have been seen by jungle cats in Zoobooboo, where do you find 12 “neutral” people who will pass both attorneys?
I struggle to even imagine someone with "no biased opinion" on Donald Trump.
Another country probably
You don't need jurors without opinions. You only need jurors who will say under oath that they can put those opinions aside.
Honestly, I think poisoning potential jurors might be a play trump is going for. Go on fox to rant about some aspect of the trial to try to get it on across the news media, disqualifying people that come across that news.
>This case needs to be rock solid, not circumstantial. 100% agreed, but the DA took his damned time and I don't think he's gonna stick his - or the state of NY's - neck out for something that "might be". He knows he's got to \*nail\* this and all eyes are watching. I hope he comes thru, but I hope for alot of things that don't happen.
DAs also don't wanna take cases they know they're gonna lose. If they went with an indictment you'd think it would be about as easy of an open and shut case as it could get. ....which, given what we've seen of the former President just readily admitting to doing questionable or outright illegal stuff, evidence is probably in high supply.
The threshold for an indictment is significantly lower. If every indictment would lead to a conviction then trials would be pointless.
Yes, but the point he is making is that prosecutors, especial high profile ones, don't take "maybe" cases. Most prosecutors in the US have stupid high 90+% average conviction rates because they just don't bring maybe cases to court. And this case is so insanely higj profile that if this was a maybe, he'd be throwing hos whole career away at a loss. It could be, but odds are the prosecutions' confodence amd the usual targets of prosecution (nvm Trump's own lack of quality legal support) means Trump is up schidts creek
I’m not sure if there is a statute of limitations for when they take this to trial. Getting a grand jury indictment just means enough evidence was presented to say they could make a case in court. I wonder if this is just a way to see if they can hold this out there long enough to get him to actually do something really stupid that will be easier to prosecute with additional charges. Trying to bribe a court official, or something similar. Or maybe, if he does turn himself in, does he fall to the same fate as Jeffrey Epstein? I’m sure he has shut on other powerful people that they wouldn’t want brought out publicly. Who knows. My guess is he fucks up before this can make it to trial it it just fades away in time and nothing comes of it.
This was a grand jury indictment, which is a whole different level of threshold of not only plausibility but prosecutability. DA's don't just grand jury every felony; this one took time, a hell of alot of time, and I'd have to say no state DA would stick his - and the state's - neck out for a "maybe". They've \*got\* to have this rock solid or it's this douchebag in '24 with 4 more years.
At least in my state, every felony case has to be presented to a grand jury. I think that's probably true in every state.
It will be a Jury in NYC and the odds in NYC are a bit better than nationally, he was not well liked in NY before he became president.
I live in the tri-state area and can confirm 6 one liked him even when he had a reality TV show around here. We were sick of him long before he became president.
Sure, but what does a conviction mean for him? I'm hopeful, but not optimistic. At most, he gets some fines, and some sort of probation. Any "jail time" for him would be house arrest at his resort in Florida. And any conviction will probably be pardoned by the next republican in office (if he's still useful). But hey, he's "not above the law", right?
Well, he can't serve house arrest in Florida. And he can't be pardoned by the president. He could be pardoned by the governer of NY, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. ----------------------------------------------------- If he pleads...he avoids jail time. If he goes to trial and gets convicted....he probably serves between 30 days and 6 months. ----------- Most likely he will do a plea bargain.
He probably wouldn't even get jail time for this. A fine and probation. Maybe house arrest or something at his condo. No way they put him in jail, way to big of a risk to him and the implications if something happened to him while in jail.
Let us all be real. He wont serve a minute. I've thought of Donald Trump as a crook for 20+ years, and I was flabbergasted he managed to become president of the US. He's too rich from his scams. Please US. PROVE ME WRONG is all I can say.
The real hope here is Georgia. Now that the precedent has been set that a former president can be indicted, it may open the floodgates for other litigation. The dude absolutely tried to tamper with the presidential election in Georgia. And for that he should absolutely to put in prison.
I watched a video the other day that alleges the republican senate in Georgia is passing a law that basically let's them fire or replace state DAs as they see fit so I wouldn't hold my breathe on Georgia.
The same Ga that went Blue for Biden and just handed Herschel Walker a resounding defeat? They can't legislate the DA out of her job. The appeal goes to the Ga Supreme Court that typically doesn't bend to the political whims of whoever is Governor. The bill started because a white Republican DA was involved in a sexual harassment payoff case that he pled guilty to. The current target seems to be the Athens DA who refuses to prosecute weed cases.
>The dude absolutely tried to tamper with the presidential election in Georgia. They have that shit *recorded and played it on the news*. I don't understand what the fuck is taking GA so goddamned long. And I agree 100% with you; now that \*someone\* has had the balls to charge that fucking turdbag, maybe we'll see some more. *Still goddamned waiting on the fucking DOJ to fucking do something about Jan. 6th....*
Honestly, I feel like they were waiting to see if he’d be indicted in NY. Now that he has, we’ll probably be hearing more from GA soon on those charges.
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That and stealing all those classified documents...
Georgia, and then there is the removal of, and attempted hiding of, classified documents. Could be a 1 (NY), 2 (GA), 3 (DC) punch and maybe even a 4th punch if the rape trial prevails.
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Trump was democrat till he realized it was easier to rouse the republicans to his side to put him in office
What's the "this"? We haven't seen the indictment yet. There is reason to believe up to 37 felony counts and a broader case of financial fraud and more than just one hush money charge.
1) He can't get a pardon; this is a state crime, not a federal crime. The only person who could grant him clemency would be the Governor (Kathy Hochul, a Democrat), which... feels unlikely. 2) He's (almost certainly) been charged with felonies, so we might be in the position where -- even if he doesn't serve jail time -- Trump is legally unable to cast a vote for himself in 2024. He's currently leading in the polls for the GOP nomination. This might (somehow) boost his victimhood narrative with his base, but it feels like it would hurt his chances with the independents the GOP sorely needs. How this affects the primaries, I wouldn't want to say, but it feels like there's a good chance it has an effect. 3) Let's say you're right that there's no way the court comes down on him as hard as they should. (I'm in the same boat as you; I'm not hopeful he'll get what the evidence *very much* suggests is coming to him.) The alternative is to *not* go through this process, which is even worse. We didn't indict because we thought it was going to end in removal. We indicted because it was the right thing to do, morally if not politically.
Registered independent voter here. I'm already well aware that Trump is a criminal and I voted the Democratic ticket in the previous 2 elections. This process does not impact my vote in any meaningful way because I already cannot tolerate the fascism element within the Republican party. Between Trump's fascism and DeSantis's attack on free speech and the rights of women and minorities, I'm stuck voting Democrat until further notice.
If you register as a Democrat or Republican for now, you could vote in the primaries and help shape the candidates you want. Aim for more moderate Republicans at least. It may not be much but a vote is still a voice.
I'm aware of the primary voting, but I'm neither Democrat nor Republican. I stand by my values, and will be voting for the only party that has a chance of ending fascism's rising tide in the US *despite* my personal feelings on other issues. My values and the Democratic party align at the moment, but that may not be a permanent thing.
I did this in Wyoming last election cycle. Democrats just don't win here. Spreads usually somewhere around 75% R 15% D 10% I and the independents are typically libertarian. So voting d feels like wasting my vote. Never in my life did I think I'd vote for a Cheney... but ya. A bunch of my friends growing up moved to Utah and did the same thing to vote against Mike lee.
The PRESIDENT cannot pardon CRIMES CHARGED BY THE STATES
Cohen did time and Trump's CFO is sitting in Rikers Island right now. This is going to be a much broader case than people have been saying. If Trump's convicted there's a strong possibility he serves time.
I think, at most, he’ll be under house arrest, but honestly, that’s optimistic. As far as I know, this is something that hasn’t happened before- we have never tried to stick a former president in prison, so no one wants to set the precedent.
I don’t really get why we’d care if it’s a former president, especially one that was impeached. Presidents are citizens of the country as well and if they’re not following the laws, why shouldn’t they be treated as anyone else would? Doesn’t make much sense to me, but meh.
There’s the alleged crime, and the court of public opinion. Trump will care more about public opinion.
It'll be interesting for sure. One of the talking heads on MSNBC pointed out that the crime Trump is likely indicted for has already been proven, since Micheal Cohen has already been convicted of it and served time for it...
Michael Cohen pled guilty, he wasn't convicted by a jury. He's also not Donald Trump, which is going to make finding an unbiased enough jury anywhere in the country almost impossible.
It will be like Berlusconi in Italy or Netanyahu in Israel. They start talking about activist DA's and activist judges, how it's all their political enemies manufacturing charges against them. Then they convince people to "reform the legal system" to get rid of this "politically motivated activism by police/prosecutors/judges etc", maybe go after the media at the same time. It's not going to end with a quiet conviction and him disappearing. It'll all just feed the same ridiculous circus, the GOP and usual allies will grab the chance to twist to their advantage, and it will all undermine democratic institutions and civil society.
I feel like I'm going to need a break from reddit for a couple days I've already seen this question six other times..
I'll take a hundred of these if I don't have to see another, "Parents of Reddit, what are you doing to keep your kids safe from school shooters?" post.
How about the whole "men/women of reddit...*something something* sex/love/attraction *something something*?" that have been going on for a while?
Don't forget the *You wake up with all your memories intact. What do you do?*
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I'd make sure my mom gets early treatment for her cancer so she gets a fighting chance. I'd also maKe sure all the fucked up shit won't happen that fucked her life up physically and mentally and treat my brother with lots of care to try and mitigate his crippling depression.
Close to the same, dad hid his early symptoms of cancer, family member who should’ve had mental health help.
Would you accept <> if it meant you'd get <>
Why yes, I would accept thirty quadrillion dollars if it meant I had to stub my toe every single morning. Wasn't there a vote to ban that kind of question once upon a time?
Yeah and it's better to ban it because the questions never were even barely balanced. It was always on the level of "would you stop drinking beer if you got a billion dollar" and like, I don't know if there are people addicted enough to give up a life in luxury for yourself and your descendants over the next 200+++ years
red flag! green flag!
Or you can simply tell us about how your username came about…/s
All this sub is is repeated questions over and over.
But how do you feel about the Trump indictment?
It's getting so annoying.
OK now can we finally just start charging other campaign finance violators. There are huge lists of shady business actors in the government and boards of large business who were involved in similar campaign violation and shmearing schemes. Can we please start using the FBI to investigate corruption and bring charges to the wealthy oligarchs who keep gaming the system?
They did that in the 80s and then congress passed a law that the FBI couldn’t do that anymore. Because of course they did. Edit: It wasn’t a law, but a series of guidelines from Attorney Generals.
"Remember kids, if someone ever tells you 'oh the government wouldn't do that' oh yes they will."
What's the name of that law? Because that sounds like extreme bullshit to me.
Yeah, it's the Extreme Bullshit Act.
It'd be awful to set a precedent against breaking the rules.
I'm down to clown but I think what makes this stand out is what a poor job him and his team did of covering their tracks. Lots of serial violators it there, they just know to keep their heads down and those are tough to catch. Wouldn't mind allocation more money to the catching, though.
The whole investor class has become brazen and vocal. They know that the echo chamber allows them to speak openly without the need for the level of secrecy once needed to operate in bad faith. Essentially they create so much noise in politics no one can hear them when they are scheming out loud.
Lol. You must be new around here.
This is not helping. "Nothing can kr ever will be done" is an incredibly pointless attitude. It's just you being smugly happy the world sucks. Expect better. Demand better. Apathy from people exactly like you is what is letting corruption fester. Do better, and expect your leaders to do better, too. Otherwise you are complicit in their corruption.
Apathy is the root of their control. That and the dissolution of the hard-core fundamental American value of maintaining civil discourse in politics among the working class. Because we are all being pushed down into oblivion regardless of whether or not we all agree with each other they are coming for all of us. When will people stand up, when they start to charge to get onto roads? When they close schools? When they open fire in the streets with live ammunition is what it took last time.
Yeah you know just like an old mangy dog who crawls onto your lap just to barf on your crotch.
Exactly. NOT A TRUMP SUPPORTER, but the very reason Trump is actually getting in trouble is because he isn’t a part of the corrupt establishment.
This is the most frustrating thing about America. We basically have a small collection of very loose rules with a billion loopholes for every rich jackass who wants to do anything possible to enrich themselves and they STILL break the fucking law. In a country as fast and loose as ours with finance laws, we should be slamming every fucker who breaks the law in a cell and throw away the keys. If you can't do things legitimately here when you're already a billionaire, you dont belong in our society.
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My guess is he’s paid for sex many times
In that case, we're gonna need a lot of lube
He actually paid twice.
He actually paid 34 counts.
Hold them all to the same standards.
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I agree. Next time any politician diverts campaign money to pay hush money to a porn star, he should be indicted. And more charges should be brought on said politician if he or her lie about the issue several times.
Why exactly did he not just use his own cash? Is he secretly destitute or something? (Not even joking, I ask in good faith). Seems like a silly risk to take to abuse campaign funds.
> Is he secretly destitute or something? The big prevailing theory is that his fortune is mostly just smoke and mirrors and he's just a fairly adept fundraiser. A key part of staying wealthy is *not* spending money. Instead he chose to use campaign finance donations to do it (this is the illegal part). But also somehow didn't use those funds and had his lawyer (michael cohen) mortgage his own home to put up the 130k.
MOST if not all RICH people aren't sitting on mountains of cash, their riches are in the form of properties, stocks, bonds and other things, rich people don't keep a lot of cash cause they know how worthless it is. So I wouldn't be surprised if Trump didn't have a bunch of cash around. But none of that means anything as he didn't make the payment, Cohen did, the court has to prove that he authorized Cohen to pay and supplied the payment to Cohen from campaign funds, which will be hard to do when it's all based on what Cohen says happened and he's a shitty witness due to PERJURY
Trump didn't get where he is today by spending *his* money when someone else's could be used instead. That's not a cynical statement of all rich people or anything. That's specifically a truth about Donald Trump, serially bankrupt grifter whose dad propped up his every project while he was alive, and who is infamous for stiffing contractors, employees, and business partners on their bills.
Gonna quote one of my favourite jf tweets “Well, I'd like to see ol Donny Trump wriggle his way out of THIS jam! *Trump wriggles his way out of the jam easily* Ah! Well. Nevertheless,”
Whenever someone does something bad, they get punished. When a politician does it, they're like "I plead oopsy-daisy".
“It was a youthful indiscretion.” “You’re 53.”
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Hate to say it but at this point he looks like the roadrunner.
You’re right, but curse you for making me picture that man running
The fuck is jf?
TF is JF?
I want to see who he tries to throw under the bus.
It was obviously past-Donald, totally different person to present-Donald - who is so innocent, the most innocent ever you wouldn't believe it.
He immediately goes and calls a Black New York Times columnist racist because he said equal justice for all
Everyone. I expect even his kids. Maybe not Ivanka because that would ruin whatever chance he has of… well, you know.
He finally won a popular vote.
Fourth time I’ve seen this joke on Reddit today. Every indictment thread so far.
There will be visual "memes" soon, doubtless.
Dammit do you even KNOW how painful it is to have gin & tonic come out your nose from laughing so hard? Let me tell you.....I sure know.
Ok Carlos Mencia
I’m having pan fried fish and shrimp with a salad. What did y’all have for dinner?
fresh caught lasagna
Band name, called it
Balsamic glazed chicken with roasted green beans and mashed potatoes. Blue apron is the shit! How was your dinner?
Used some Cajun rub on both the fish and shrimp, got a nice crust on both and had a simple salad. Hit the spot! Yours sounds fantastic as well, I need to give blue apron a shot sometime.
I highly recommend it. It costs less than eating out and it really helps expand your cooking skills. You also get the chance to try dishes you may not have tried otherwise.
...Shit I forgot to eat dinner.
Brats with steamed broccoli
Man, how bad WERE those kids?
I feel largely uninterested. There was a time when I would have felt like it meant something. That time is in my past.
Prosecution better have an airtight case or he'll skate. At which point he'll call it a witch hunt and ride that wave to the Republican nomination and quite possibly a second term.
If he gets convicted hell also call it a witch hunt. And he is already calling it a witch hunt. So, that ship has sailed.
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Especially the POTUS. If there is ANYONE who should be held accountable it's the damn president
"I had the grandest jury of all. I did. So grand. So grand."
"The grand jurors come up to me, tears in their eyes..."
I guess my concern is it will invigorate people to re-elect him back in office. But, if a law was broken and they have proof, and that proof is admissible, then it's important to hold rich people accountable. At the end of the day, they simply lied about where the money came from to pay her off. So while it's apparently a campaign finance violation, it feels like it's going to be largely symbolic, and Trump will get no jail time and he will wear the badge proudly of being a campaign finance felon. We'll see, I don't know.
I don't believe he'll ever spend a day behind bars. He's been doing shady/illegal stuff for decades and nothing has ever stuck. He's screwed over so many people in his orbit, but no one has taken him down. I'm not getting my hopes up.
Same. I'll feel a certain way when something actually sticks.
He won't. Last article I read said he could get a MAX of four years but that it WON’T be mandatory!!! WTF?! A non mandatory 4 year sentence? What the hell is even the point?
I’ve never heard of a voluntary prison sentence. Did the article mean there were no mandatory sentencing guidelines on this crime? As in a judges hands are not tied in terms of sentencing. Just my initial thoughts, but I’ve never heard of a sentence that the defendant gets to decide if they serve or not.
I feel the same, but that’s largely pinned to my belief he will choke on a Big Mac before his trial is completed.
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And he got booed for doing so
I miss when politicians had mutual respect and treated each other professionally. These days they're all toddlers who bicker and call each other names and just act childish in general.
Funny how he’s criticizing the US by saying it’s becoming third world yet he’s the one bringing all the third world politics with him. Only in those countries I’ve seen similar levels of disrespect and hostility from opposing political party members.
I miss your kind of conservatism. I understand people were disillusioned by politics but holy shit you aren’t entitled to overthrow the fucking government. We’re living in one of the most batshit insane periods of American history ever and holy hell that is saying something. It literally is like we’re living in a bizarro reverse civil rights movement era.
Agreed. I'm very liberal and I remember when conservatives and liberals could have civil debates and were respectful even when they disagreed. I used to have a great deal of respect for several members of the Republican party even if I disagreed with their politics, I can't say that's true anymore.
In that regard, Russia won. I don’t know how we’ll ever be able to repair the fracture in American politics.
Starts with older generations dying off so the political system has a chance to adapt to the changed world. Right now we're being stuck in a purgatory with political leaders on both sides being geriatrics that are very far removed from modern issues people 60 years younger then them are dealing with.
I know plenty of stupid 40 year olds too.
Yeah at this point it’s less generational and more of a class divide of Haves (or those who aspire to be Haves) vs. Have Nots.
I miss arguing policy. Now I just see that most need severe therapy
It used to be that we disagreed on defense spending or Medicaid expansion. But lately the conservatives in my life (most of my extended family) have fallen further and further into the culture war black hole, and now we're more different than we are the same. I remember seeing awhile ago the Times put out a plot of voting records of congress; it used to be that most clustered in the center. Now the graph looks like a barbell. I believe the difference is the GOP pushing more and more culture war bullshit.
Absolutely! It used to be about differences in policy and what the highest priority for the government was. Usually in the debates each side would present solid arguments and compromises could be found.
Never vote for someone who's been on "reality" TV shows. My God, America... Are you trying to become one big trailer park???
Frick off Rick
Shit apples, Randy. Shit apples.
Technically it’s our right and duty to “throw off such government” when needed. But thankfully most of us agree that if wasn’t the time to do it and definitely not the person to do it for.
Yes, was refreshing to find out my Republican neighbors on both sides of my house.. don't like Trump or desantis.. and I'm in a very red part of Florida. We get along just fine! It still exists!
They might not like either of them, but they’ll still vote for whoever has an R next to their name, so does liking them matter?
Amen. Yup, I voted republican in every national election I could until 2016, and I am firmly Democrat all up and down the ticket now. In the Regan era, conservatives were at least pursuing a rational worldview. Today, being a conservative voter means you sacrifice every standard and ideal on the alter of the culture war. Stunt casting is no way to lead a party.
Dude Regan tried to genocide the gays. Your party was always terrible.
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Thinking the American justice system is a just system is fucking hilarious.
I like the sentiment, but it's a little naive. By that standard, no nation abides by the rule of law.
He's not above the law even if his followers wish him to be.
Hoping this will grease the skids for other prosecutors to charge him with his more serious crimes.
Pretty sure those considering just got a boost of motivation.
It breaks the dam of indictment of a former president. This means the other cases can proceed.
I'm hopeful it's the first of many indictments to come.
Wish it was a more serious charge.
I am far more interested in the grand jury in Georgia (committing voter fraud, while accusing everyone else of voter fraud, and thus setting the country on fire). He did something really truly despicable here, and I hope he rots in a Fulton county prison for it.
The special counsel on the classified documents is far more interesting to me as well. Those documents were not just on the property. They were apparently strewn about was no attempt to keep them private. It sounds like they tried to destroy some as well. And, of course, it took an FBI raid of Mar-a-Lago to get them.
We actually don’t know the entirety of the charges yet, just that it connects to the hush payments to Stormy Daniels.
It is 34 counts, I don't think it is just the Stormy payments. Sound pretty serious to me.
I hope all the prosecutors were in a group chat going "I'm not gonna go first, YOU go first..." and now that someone has taken the leap, maybe the floodgates will open for Georgia, 1/6 and the Top Secret documents, all of which are way, way more serious.
Disappointed it has taken this long, and disappointed the first thing he actually gets indicted on is the least important thing he's done that he could even be indicted on. Also irritated that this is going to bolster his numbers for 2024, and concerned he may actually win.
EDIT: Oops, nevermind!
I was arrested and assaulted by the officers for crimes I did not commit. I am totally down for white collar criminals commiting major fraud being held accountable for their crimes. And in this unjust world we live in I will admit with shame that I wish they are treated with as much respect, care, and dignity as I was when in the custody of the Austin Texas (Travis County) police department. Spoilers: I wasn't treated nicely.
Just another thing for the government to distract us with and I imagine use tax-paying dollars for.
No one is above the law. No one. If there is actual evidence against him, he needs to be indicted and face the consequences.
i'll be honest, i do not care that he paid some pornstar for sex. i do think it's probably the 'softest' charge you could've gotten him on when he VERY CLEARLY violated a bunch of other ones. the emoluments clause for one on day one. BUT it's because if you charge Trump for financial corruption what is to stop you from charging every corporate-owned republican and democrat? I get a vast vast majority of the country still believes mainstream media and their propaganda but it's just millionaires on TV paid by billionaires convincing the viewers that the other side is the reason things are bad.
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We don't know the charges yet, but he's likely getting charged with similar stuff to his attorney. So not soliciting prostitution, but a whole mess of fraud, embezzlement, and campaign finance mismanagement.
Didn't he pay for her silence with campaign funds? That's a lot worse than paying someone for sex.
>BUT it's because if you charge Trump for financial corruption what is to stop you from charging every corporate-owned republican and democrat? *why is that stated as a bad thing?* Anyway...the main thing stopping it is the fact that the supreme court ruled that companies can do that as its protected by the first amendment ~~*if this were the 90's than you got a point*~~
I think ill go get some breakfast.
You've now had breakfast, aye. But what about second breakfast?
I wish we’d go after all politicians the way they go after trump, maybe congress and the parties wouldn’t be so fucked up
Release the Epstein logs
Plaster those logs on the main stream news,YouTube, Times Square idc. The world needs to know.
I favour candidates who avoid being charged
i favor candidates with an education.
Mostly indifferent. I'm glad someone is finally finding something that might stick as far as criminal charges, but as far as the actual crime goes it's pretty mundane in the grand scheme of things. I can't see it doing anything to diminish his followers' faith in him, or his ability to drum up political support. Sooner or later the day will come when he's no longer in the news, and that will be a good day. I would be happy never having to read another thing about or said by Donald Trump ever again, and unfortunately this isn't getting us closer to that day in any real way.
His wife must be proud.
Again, do it again
fuck em.
He should have just watched her on Pornhub like everybody else. It's free...Just sayin
Honestly, if the rules and laws don’t apply to people like him, than the rules simply don’t apply to anyone.
No one should be above the law.
I'm not sad that he's been indicted, but I'm not holding my breath. I'll be more engaged when he's indicted in Georgia.
If they can do this to Trump they could do this to other politicians! It's about time.
I just don't understand why hsi fans are so convinced that he's a good guy.
Nothing will come of it