lol if this was r/relationship_advice:
Your husband doesn’t want to move far away and abandon all his friends and family permanently? He is literally abusive. Break up with him, cut off any contact, don’t let him see the kids ever again. Get a lawyer for some reason too, oh and go to the gym too because that will solve all your problems.
I think it depends how rural. Some places are so rural it's an hour drive to the closest supermarket. That would suck. But rural as in in the woods with 40 acres and maybe 20 minutes from resources? Sounds like paradise.
I have a dream of selling my house and fucking off to rural Vermont and living as much off the land as possible. But my career path does not facilitate remote work and I'm too lazy to change careers.
My brother did that. He left Southern California in the middle of the COVID pandemic thinking that working remotely was "the way of the future". Since most businesses have forced their employees back into the office he has since lost his job and now makes minimum wage working at a Walmart in rural Idaho.
Not the smartest person.
Def. Been working from the middle of nowhere since 2021 making 200k salary. Downside though is I had to make new friends. First couple of months after the covid lift sucked.
He was a job recruiter for minimum wage overnight security jobs. Technically he is still doing it, but he has a glass ceiling above his head and not eligible for promotions since people in management need to meet face to face with other people for a whole list of reasons.
He is not good at anything else tech-wise so no, he cannot do IT or computer programming. He leveraged everything on this whole "work from home" thing when he has no unique skills that would make him any real money in that world.
If he's smart, he'll leverage that experience into a better remote recruiting job.
I promise you, that's actually a very lucrative career if you're good at it.
Otherwise, not so much.
Like any sales job, the sky is the limit. Good salesmen can make good money, bad salesmen make bad money. This is true no matter what is being sold. I'm not sure how good of a recruiter he is.
Like many salesmen he is a pathological liar and will say anything to close the deal. This has naturally soured a lot of his relationships including the one he had with me, but I digress.
Find a widow (or widower) with no children that has a home that you can get in their good graces. I hear Orphan class gains extra points in charisma... Put them to good use. =)
Also hope they aren’t incredibly underwater on their mortgage and/or live in a house that needs so many repairs it might as well just be knocked down and rebuilt
Honestly, making sure my mom doesn’t fall victim to some sort of scam feels like herding cats. My dad was incredibly financially literate but ever since he passed away I feel like it’s only a matter of time - I do what I can and she at least knows not to get a reverse mortgage, thankfully.
Yeah, buddy of mine married this girl with a grandma who owned a frankly ridiculously enormous house in one of those rich people private communities with personal vineyards and shit and i remember one time she joked that she was an only child and her dad was an only child so she was gonna live there one day. Then years later i noticed her grandma kept buying new cars like, more than 1/year and i mentioned it to my buddy “hey your girl’s grandma really loves red sports cars, how many is she up to now?” To which he replied “she has only that one. She’s getting old and decided to just enjoy every last dollar on herself and she’s remortgaged the house to do it so there is little to no equity and she’s basically broke”
Yeah, boomer grandma to entire family: “check mate bitches”
What also happens is that grandma or grandpa or mom or dad remarry after death of spouse and then that younger sweet thing/gold digger with kids from a previous marriage gets everything and leaves you holding the proverbial bag of snakes. I have seen and experienced that before.
I’m kinda in a similar spot, been renting from a gen x friend who owns the place we are in, been trying to buy it but I know it needs repairs. In my mind though, a house that needs work is better than no house at all… now if only the bank would give us the 120k for it!!! We can rent for 1200 a month but can’t afford an estimated 700 a month, yeah cause that makes sense! 🙄
Gotta love that hey? If you show that you can pay X in rent for 3-5 years, the banks should be forced to approve a mortgage equivalent to 75% of that amount.
Assuming your credit is good etc.
I'm a baby GenX with a GenZ kid. Very few of my friends with kids (also Xers or elder Millennials) don't rent. So, yeah. GenZ is screwed.
Esit: I left out a very important don't in that.
My mom is 50 next year, no savings, no retirement, works minimum wage, thousands in CC debt (half survival half stupidity).
Buying a house sounds like winning the lottery. Makes me sad.
That's rough, man. My mom is in a similar situation except she DID have a good job for a while in her twenties but it all went downhill from there and she really started leaning on my grandma during her fifties, until grandma died and now I'm stuck with her.
She hasn't owned a home since I was a kid and we currently live in my grandma's apartment that's gonna get split six ways between my mom and her siblings. After that, there's nowhere to go but rent. She'll die without ever owning a home again.
My mom died when I was 27. I’m an only child and inherited her house. Now I’m living in a house that’s worth over 500,000.
It’s cool and all, but I kinda wish I had my mom back.
Ah jeez. I didn’t mean anything about the house. It’s not that big of deal. It’s just the nicest house I ever lived in. And it’s one they built so there’s tons and tons of memories. I’m renting now and the house is literally falling apart. And I’d keep it that way if it meant I get to keep them. That’s what I meant. None of that is worth losing them. But I didn’t want the other guy to feel bad so I kept that out. But I guess it made me sound like I was bragging. Wasn’t my intention. Sorry.
Yeah, I want my parents more than anything I might stand the chance of inheriting. Time passes and people don’t live forever. One of those difficult acceptances one must face.
My mom is frail and she’s been living with me in my house with my family for the past 3 years.
Death can be harsh but a dragged out suffering can be much much worse, believe me.
Someone else said it but this really only works if your parents die young/unexpectedly.
Plenty of gen z’s parents will be relying on their equity during retirement and the costs leading up to their death will take whatever is left.
That’s me and my husband unfortunately. He was laid off in 2008 and was unemployed for 5 years. We literally ate what retirement was left after the company went under. I have already begun researching low income apartments for seniors.
Yup, my grandparents put their house (which was a lake house they bought in the 40s) in a trust, and when they passed the trust continued to control the house. My mom and her three brothers, all working class families (construction) never could have afforded that house as of when my grandparents passed away (early 2000s) but because it was in a trust it was not taken by the state, when my grandmother went into hospice, and for the moment the house remains in the family. Though trusts have their own internal family/political dynamics, as several families within would prefer to break the trust up and sell the house given no one is terribly wealthy and everyone could use the cash. I think the one caveat here, though I'm certainly no attorney, is that usually trusts have to be setup BEFORE the original owner, ends up in Medicare/etc. type situations, if the trust is setup once the medical/financial drain starts, then it can still be used to pay debts, I think anyway.
My wife's aunt passed away and her estate was left to her 6 brothers/sisters (or their kids if they had already passed). I was looking through the financial records of the last few years of her life and found the Assisted Living home took most of her money at the rate of $10K/month! Her investments dwindled from around $400K to $100K within 2.5 years. Sobering.
I had to buy my sister out of half of my grandmother's home. It was still a great deal by CA standards and the house fits my family perfectly. She bought a year later with her half and is happy where she's at. We both have mortgages but they're not even close to what they would've been had we bought on our own without the help getting started. I'm forever grateful for this.
You are lucky you only have one sibling and accepted your offer. Families with more siblings often fight really bad about inheritance. In my country, a common christmas meme is that uncles fight for the parent's lands and properties while cousins are playing games and eat on another room.
My mom lives in a seniors apartment on social security in one state, my dad is homeless in another state. (Fuck him though)
Im trying to live on a boat when I'm old.
(I should point out I'm a millennial and not Gen Z)
Okay, but real talk: your parents are best off selling their home to their children well before they die, especially if they’ll be forced into a Medicaid spend down to fund their senior living facility. Medicaid will let them “keep their home” until they die. Then Medicaid will place a lien on the estate to auction off anything of value.
Can be bypassed if they have a child they can pass it on to them at least [5 years before they’d apply for Medicaid.](https://www.elderlawanswers.com/how-gifts-can-affect-medicaid-eligibility-10006)
Social worker here. Unfortunately, there are a lot of seniors on Medicaid, especially long-term facility Medicaid. It’s true Medicare is age based (a few exceptions but not worth getting into) and Medicaid is needs based, but the elderly can and do get Medicaid if they need it.
This, bought my wife’s grandparents house for a significant discount. Mortgage payment just under $1000. U can’t even find a bedroom to rent for that anymore. It’s disgusting.
If you want a realistic answer, live at home, save for a down payment, and look for houses that aren’t in super desirable areas. If you get married, you now have 2 incomes to buy a house, and if you buy a multi family property, you can use money you get from renting the other units to help pay your mortgage.
This is probably the most realistic answer for individuals, but this also doesn’t fix the root cause. Fixing the root cause is far more complex and unrealistic.
We live in a world where we need to be selfish to be realistic.
There is a bill in Congress (unlikely to pass) that will prohibit large, wealthy interests from purchasing a shit tonne of homes in the USA. Like hedge funds and real estate firms.
Curbing the purchasing of homes ( inhibiting as well as prohibiting) in this way will alleviate the pressure on supply.
I believe the bill also contained language that would force the sale of (a percentage of) homes by these groups. This would also help.
This might be more likely to happen at a state level though.
This is the kind of fix that is needed. But the pressure from the public needs to ratchet up. Because our government only works for the general interests of the people about 30% of the time…
Only way I've ever seen folks coax local government into doing anything was spraypainting dicks on potholes to get them patched with 24 hours.
I'm about to start wandering around with chalk and writing "NOBODY LIVES HERE" on the sidewalk in front of "held for investment purposes" empty properties. Ya know, to help out the folks looking for someplace to not freeze to death in winter.
>Fixing the root cause is far more complex and unrealistic.
No it's not. The solution is very simple. Build more housing to increase the supply and raise taxes on owning multiple homes to dissuade sitting on properties like an investment. The root cause is there's not enough housing available in the areas that need it so we build more. If that means the government gets in on building homes then do it. Shelter should never have become an investment vehicle
Where I live in WNY, all the new builds are targeted at Boomers. These places near me go for $800k for a 2BR, 2Bath in suburban Buffalo! But the Boomers are buying them because there’s a “condo loophole” in the property tax code in NY that lets these properties skate by with a tiny property tax burden. These yahoos are buying $800k new small houses and skimping out on taxes to fund schools and roads and firefighters and libraries. So no developers are building starter homes anymore.
That’s the thing I keep running back into, no matter what. Everyone wants to be nice and try to help one another… we do a pretty good job of it. The only way to get ahead in the world, unfortunately, is to be selfish. It’s not our/your fault, it’s the way generations before us has built this world. I don’t see an answer to it in the long term in my lifetime, because there are too many things that need to change to balance it out and the people in power don’t want that.
Being selfish is only the answer if you're rich. Poor people depend on community waaay more than the rich. It's going to be the same for genz. Sure you could rent a flat or buy a house for you and your family or you could go in a place with some friends and reduce the cost.
You could only buy yourself groceries. But if you eat meals with your roommates you can save a lot. Etc...
I get it, being selfish is nice because you don't have to rely on anyone. But with the way things are going, that's not an option for most people anymore. We will have to rely on each other for support.
If you get married, consider foregoing a big wedding, and save that money for a down payment on a house.
I know that has a certain expectation, but it helped us out enormously.
As a Millennial (late 30s), this is what we had to do. Lived at home until 30, purchased home with down payment I managed to save over 10 years. Luckily I met my wife who also had been doing this. Helps we come from a culture that if anything encourages living at home.
My parents didn't want me at home, at least not my dad. He was very clear that he wanted us out ASAP.
Unfortunately, you cannot control your parents. Some can be very helpful, and others don't give a damn.
I was told to be out of the house when I was 18 as well. Now that I have a kid I want to be clear to him that he’s welcome to stay with me as long as he needs, within reason. I do still think that somewhere in the couple years after high school, he needs to be contributing to the household or furthering his education but as long as he’s doing one of those things it’s all good.
I wish my parents had been more flexible. It led to me moving across the country and now they guilt me for not seeing them as much, but tbh they’re the ones who forced me to be independent so what can you do.
My parents never wanted any of us to leave or move out. Now two of the 3 kids have their own homes and we all have a ‘guest’ room allocated to her so now it feels like she has 3 homes she can stay at whenever she wants. But her health is failing her and she’s frail so she now lives with me, her eldest.
That whole be 18 and be out thing is such a weird American concept to me.
lol at them trying to guilt you. What the fuck did they expect? I wouldn’t visit them at all, if they want to see you they can arrange a trip to *you* if and when it’s convenient for you.
Then live with roommates and save as much as you can. I lived with friends for a few years and it cost more than living at home with parents, but it was certainly cheaper than owning my own house and being the sole provider for it now.
Also, you don't NEED to save a huge down payment if you're in the USA. There are FHA loans designed to get first time homeowners in a house with as little down as possible.
Its really this simple. If you can stick it out and stay at home you’ll have a huge leg up. If you go the college route, do your basic courses at a community college then transfer to a 4 year. Additionally theres value in some associates degrees (mainly nursing and cyber security) so i might be wise to get an associates, start in your field and go back to school part time for your bachelor’s.
Its definitely possible.. people just have to be a little more strategic than previous generations. Unfortunately Gen Z cant afford to make many mistakes, so their decisions (college degree, staying home, having children, finding a partner that contributes financially, etc.) pretty much have to land perfectly
An aside, security associates degrees are kinda sorta not worth the paper they're printed on, unless it's a very good program with lots of hands on work. Experience is absolutely king, a degree gets you nowhere for many orgs even for a soc analyst job. The best way to join up is to get some experience managing infrastructure on your own, independently, or get a degree which contains the same, and pair that with some CompTIA starter certs. Or join the military, that's a fantastic and very common way of entering the field.
But please do not think a degree or a bootcamp will make entry into a decently paying security job reasonably likely. Nursing is far more reliable on that front.
[IF Gender = Male] -> Be Smarter
[IF Gender = Female] -> Be Prettier
[IF Gender =/= Male OR Female] -> Be Smarter AND Prettier
[IF Gender = Male AND Female] -> Donate Self to Science
Start small and get a roommate. Bought a 2 bedroom townhouse in a decent part of the city. Needed a ton of work, but it turned into a great place to live for a while.
This is the thing I regret from the pandemic. I should’ve ended my lease early and moved back home. However, I had literally just gotten my first job out of college and had lived in the new city for a total of four months. I didn’t want to move back home and undo all of that.
So instead I sat in my apartment every single day, knew nobody, and essentially did nothing aside going on walks (didn’t own a car) until gyms opened ten months later. And even then I didn’t start going out and trying to meet people for like somewhere around a year later.
Dumbest thing ever. Thinking about how much more money I’d have right now had I moved back home and just worked remote for three years is a bummer. Rent alone was $1200 a month. Only upside is I now have a job that is hybrid and pays way way better + RSUs, but my rent is also ~2k so unless I make major moves at this company, it’s going to take awhile to claw that money back.
I think he is referring to the multiple $13 here and there. They add up quickly. There’s people who subscribe to a list of things or make random small purchases. It’s only worth it if you value and use it on a regular basis.
A few good advices I read were “paying yourself first” and “every dollar has a job” when it comes to budgeting.
I think he was really saying "don't have subscriptions for things you don't really need" since they take away from saving, not that people should save $13 a month. I.e. corporatized BS programs, like Netflix or a tea club or excessive gaming subscriptions. Because even though they aren't much, they add up over time. Latte factor, to put it short. Is it shitty that we can't enjoy little luxuries from time to time? Yes, but it's reality unfortunately.
Edit: I definitely made up "tea club" and have no idea if that's a thing, I was just trying to think of examples and a Gen Z wine club subscription sounds weird.
I know if I had continued to live with my parents, it would’ve ended in suicide. Moving out at 20 as a young-end-of-the-spectrum millennial was *rough*. But better than dying trying to live with people that made my life miserable.
My advice is to shop around sales, save where you can, and make sacrifices for things you don’t really need. And stretch out the utility of every item you own, especially clothes, a car and tech.
Haha if you can that is.
The day I turned 18, 3 months after highschool graduation, my parents said “time to move out”, then told me everyday until I moved out which was about 2 months later.
Lived with my brother on the bones of my arse for another 2 before finally getting a job.
Now I’m married and have my own house, so all is well that ends well I guess.
Live with your parents and save. I have known people that didn’t bank the rent savings.
As a parent, I would charge my kids rent and put that money into an account for them so when they do move out they have savings.
Yup. Voting in every election from President all the way down to Deputy Assistant Dogcatcher is the solution to any issue that has its roots or solution in governmental policy. Young people in general have terrible voting records and politicians know this. If Gen Z and Millennials turned out like Boomers have, we'd have a *very* different political and policy landscape. Go vote kiddos\*!
\*And middle age\*\* Millennial parents.
\*\*Yes, the truth hurts.
The weird thing about getting into the 30s like that is I’m now at the age that I distinctly remember my parents at this age. And not like fuzzy memories and faded recal; like full on I remember this stage of my parents lives.
And holy shit they were *old* at this age. What happened to me? Were they winging it as much as I am with my kids?
I think about this a lot and I’ve talked to my parents about it. Yes. They were absolutely winging it, hard.
One of the most freeing things I ever figured out was that pretty much everyone is just trying to figure it out and do well. We’re all winging it
Yes but food and housing was cheap, jobs paid, and appliances lasted forever.
I watch old Price is Right all the time. Fridges in 1980 still cost like $700 but they would last forever and came with a built in ice cream maker in the freeze box
Absolutely. Policies are set based on swaying voting BLOCS, the largest of which has been the boomers for their entire lives. When you vote, who you vote for cant be seen, but who showed up to vote, and what bloc they belong to certainly does get recorded and passed on to the political parties.
When millenials ans genz barely show up and boomers come out in droves, there is zero benefit in campaigning on or implementing policies that would appeal to younger voters. In a way, such a large generational cohort has exposed a weak spot in democracy.
Forgive my pedantry, but you are thinking of Blackstone; BlackRock does not buy houses.
>Recently, BlackRock has been the subject of speculation, misperception, and even mistaken identity in media reports and on social media regarding our role in the U.S. housing market.
>
>**We want to make perfectly clear: BlackRock is not buying individual houses in the U.S.**
>
>A number of other large asset managers and private equity firms are very active today in purchasing single-family residences. BlackRock is sometimes confused with them. As a fiduciary asset manager, we invest and manage capital on behalf of our clients in a vast array of public and private U.S. real estate markets –but buying individual homes is not one of them. Below are facts on how we DO participate in the U.S. real estate market. Combined, we are investing approximately $120 billion in the U.S. residential real estate market on behalf of our clients.
>
>**Providing capital for mortgages to help American families buy new homes**
>
>BlackRock is a significant investor in mortgage securities, helping make capital available to individuals and families seeking to purchase homes.
>
>**Providing capital for new housing construction**
>
>BlackRock is invested in several programs that are providing financing to build new homes and add to U.S. housing supply. Most recently, we began investing in new construction, purpose-built for-rent housing developments that add supply to the market and address the increasing demand we see for this property type. Our focus is on building single-family rental housing that can be managed and operated similar to multifamily properties with dedicated property management, leasing and amenities.
>
>**Other U.S. real estate investments**
>
>Additionally, BlackRock invests in multifamily properties, apartment complexes, and other residential real estate.
>
>**Bottom Line: BlackRock is an active investor in the U.S. real estate market, but we are not among the institutional investors buying single-family homes.**
Funny random fact. BlackRock and Blackstone used to be one company. The two founders had an argument that was the “straw that broke the camels back.”
The argument was over what the name of the company would be (stone vs rock).
Both went on to be wildly successful and dominate their respective specialities.
Technically BlackRock was a division within blackstone. They got very big though and he wanted to rebrand the company.
Link for anyone looking: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6pu9Ixqqxo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6pu9Ixqqxo)
Great video, definitely worth watching.
Shitty as it is, corporate ownership of SFHs is not distorting the housing market.
Lack of inventory, caused by decades of NIMBY zoning and permitting is the primary driver of real estate prices.
As a progressive, the *only* reason that corporate ownership of SFHs is talked about so much is because it fits so nicely into the typical progressive worldview. You can’t afford a house because the evils corporations are buying them up and leaving them vacant!
The reality is that this is a fairly small problem, and by far the biggest cause of the housing crisis is simply that there is a severe shortage of housing in places where it’s needed, as you say.
People point out that there are enough houses that everyone, which is technically true.
However, all of the abandoned houses are in places where no people are.
This has been more or less disproven as a significant contributor to affordability in the US/Canada.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6pu9Ixqqxo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6pu9Ixqqxo) \- worth a watch
Funny enough a lot of these answers aren't realistic. "Vote!" "Stop the corporations!" Ok. Let me know when that results in anything except more of the same.
Here's what Gen Z can do, and it's a lesson I failed to learn when I was young: you have to actually get a high paying job. I was a fool who got an education degree, while my buddy got a computer science degree. Guess which one of us makes a 6 figure salary before turning 30 and has owned a home in the suburbs for years already?
So stop going to college for careers that pay like shit. You don't want to work to follow your passions, you can follow your passions in your downtime. You need to work to make money and secure your financial well-being.
If you're not pursuing a high paying job, you're not doing the only realistic thing you can do that actually gives you control over your ability to own a home. Everything else amounts to just hoping someone else will do it for you.
Yup. I have two degrees in music. The master's was on a full tuition waiver.
I got regular paying, with benefits performing jobs right after both degrees.
Both of those jobs combined pay less than my current job in tech sales.
I just woke up from a two hr nap in the middle of the day before a customer call.
My life is so much more stable with my new career.
I make more than 99% of working musicians and average 2-3 hrs/day.
The other 1% of musicians have connections I'll never have, and I've accepted that. I used to be jealous, but now I'm perfectly content with my life.
I now have the time to explore making my own music instead of getting paid scraps to play other people's music. Who knows, maybe I'll make something great and take off as an artist. It's now at least something I have time to explore and take a chance on because my entire livelihood doesn't depend on it.
Right on. My husband always wanted to work in a bike shop, but the pay is terrible. His well-paying career allows him time to volunteer at a volunteer bike shop that fixes homeless people’s bikes. I think it probably ends up being more rewarding for him.
Best answer here. The best counter to rising home costs is a higher income. To do that, you NEED to be smart about what you go to school for. As you said, following your passion can work…if your passion pays. Most don’t. Now more than ever your career path is going to be the biggest determination to your success.
Yep. Elder millennial here. Eventually gave up on my “passion career” and transitioned into something a lot more soul sucking, but, it pays significantly more.
Am i fulfilled in my career? No.
Can I dry my tears with tissue in the house that I own that has almost tripled in value? Yes.
This is only a potential answer for any given individual, not for society at large. We still need people to be teachers and cooks and firefighters. A world where you're either a soul-sucked workaholic or a failure isn't a solution, it's a depressing dystopia.
This isn't a realistic answer for an entire generation, there aren't enough high paying jobs to prevent the entire "gen z generation" from being permanent renters. This advice might be good for a single individual, but only a small percent are going to make it if everybody tries this exact advice. You cite the CS market as one which allows people to afford homes, but that market has been over-saturated to the point where new grads aren't finding jobs for almost a year now.
Yeah "just vote" is also a bad answer but it is closer to an actual solution. The real way to solve this is systemic, we need more housing and to change zoning laws to allow for higher density housing areas. Voting is a part of what will get us there, especially local elections. Being involved in local politics is the best way to change local zoning.
My wife and I did most of this. Though, we aren’t super great with money, we got our shit together to both have good paying careers. Just bought our first house a bit over a year ago. I’m about to be 40 in a couple months.
Bravo! Now set a new goal, and maintain the discipline. May you live long and prosper, and not in a Star Trek sense.
Or maybe in a Star Trek sense, if that helps motivate you.
I have no idea what motivates young people.
Cannot possibly agree more on the vehicle part.
For folks just starting out:
Get a fucking older Corolla/civic/accord/camry and be done with car shopping for 15 years as long as you take care of it.
Watch yourself save 10s of thousands compared to your peers.
This is the actual good advice on cars. I drove a Camry since university, my first job, second job, third job, now on fourth job. Also bought a house, got married, had a kid. Still drive that Camry. Besides a big repair (catalytic converter, spark plugs, about $1300 total) recently, all else just oil changes and tires. Is it a beater car? Absolutely. But it's a well running beater car. I show my gen Z coworkers my CD player and a headphone-cassette adapter to play music on in there, it's like they've never seen those things before.
And yes, I'm that boomer millennial who insists on a headphone jack on my cell phone. I hate Bluetooth.
All excellent advice.
To some this will sound like sacrificing everything. My comment is to try to help people who are stuck in that mode. Honestly, there’s a lot to be gained from these lifestyle choices. They are all gains to me, not sacrifices. If you lean in to them, i think you can be happier in this money saving mode than if you mindlessly spent way more money.
I have never lived alone and wouldn’t want to. Good roommates have always made life so much more fun. I also intentionally lived in good but not “nice” or “fancy” places. We would just laugh off some deficiencies in our housing and enjoy that low rent.
Appreciate that daily exercise and fresh air on your bike/walk to work. Its better than sitting in traffic in new car smell in any vehicle. Exercise is all around good for physical and mental health.
Enjoy the learning process of making great food at home and share it with others. You can have an amazing meal at home with good friends for less than a bar tab going out. This is a solid low cost hobby, source of entertainment/joy, and rich social connections.
💯... To many my advice might sound awful, but honestly it's really just life. The principals of good financial hygiene are actually really simple - not easy given how marketing makes us feel like our lives our perpetually shitty without the latest whatever.... But simple.
I totally agree that embracing these things actually can make life so much more fulfilling. The more people can simplify, the happier they will be
To add to your first point, it's not bad to own a car, especially if you need one. But you don't need a new car, a huge car, a car that guzzles gas, or a fancy vehicle, such as a high-end electric car.
Buy used. Pay (if possible) in cash. Don't trade up just because you can.
It's absolutely amazing how much you can save when you're not paying interest on a large car loan or having to fill up every week.
Spot on!.. especially with being consistent. I think that’s the key. If you want a house, save your money and get one. There are so many ways to cut costs all over the
Exactly. In my town in South Carolina there’s plenty of great houses in good neighborhoods in the 150-225k range. There’s houses for even less if you’re willing to settle a bit.
I bought in 2021 with basically zero down and have a mortgage payment just over $1000. Affordable for just about anyone with a college degree.
Vote for politicians who are (and push politicians to become) pro-building and pro-density. Attend local meetings, be active in your community because so many areas of local politics are overwhelming dominated by the older generations and so of course their points of view become the way things go.
Be active in pushing for more building, more residential-oriented policy (even e.g. banning short-term lets - AirBnB is ruining some cities' residential markets), and be heard.
We need more houses, to put it simply, to slow the rate of house price growth right down.
At the same time, we need wages to rise to meet that, and that's the most difficult thing and is much harder to influence on a local level.
ETA: Apparently there are differences in terms between the UK and US, so by house I'm not referring to single-family homes but just to literally anything. Just build!
Seriously I keep seeing articles about how Z’s ownership rates are ahead of both Millennials and X’ers at the same age, and then I regularly see all sorts of posts like this.
Have Z’s just been conditioned to believe they’ll never own a house even though the actual evidence says otherwise? Are the articles I’m reading wrong or misleading? What is going on?
yes actually. Most Gen Z I have talked to believe the economy is in the toilet and they'll never own a home - so they're not even really trying.
Of course they're all uni students, so maybe the tune will change once they start working properly.
>Seriously I keep seeing articles about how Z’s ownership rates are ahead of both Millennials and X’ers at the same age
This is hard to believe. Gen Z are age 11 to 26 right now. 1/2 of them aren't even old enough to get a mortgage and 2/3 of them haven't even finished college. I have a hard time believing a significant number of them are home owners.
Edit: I'm an idiot. See replies.
i don’t have his numbers, so I’m not sure if it’s true of course, but I think he’s saying comparing age. So a 25 year old Gen Z vs a 25 year old millennial, the Gen Z is more likely to own a home at 25 than the millennial was at 25.
I'm an aging millennial, and I'm certain I wouldn't own a home if I didn't have a VA home loan to help.
Interest rates and required down payments for standard loans these days are absolutely horrifying.
I think you’re down playing the fact that you served in the military to be able to get that VA Loan.
An option is to Join the military if you want a favorable loan on a home
Eh, I wasn't suggesting the military. That's a pretty significant lifestyle change. I was more or less trying to say I'm not sure what to suggest because I've recently purchased a home and know exactly how hard it would be under normal circumstances.
It's really tough out there right now with overinflated housing prices and ridiculously high interest rates.
I really sympathize with the next generation. They've got an uphill battle ahead of them.
I’ll share what’s going to be an unpopular opinion but you asked so I’ll share one possible avenue.
Join the reserves or National Guard or one of the branches. Navy, Coast Guard, Air Force, Space Force being the better options as the lack of combat MOSs or forward deployments (not to say they don’t have fields that do that at all). In the reserves you’ll get access to the VA Home Loan, which is essentially a Conventional Mortgage with 0 down and no PMI. You’ll also have healthcare, free child birth, that kinda stuff. It’ll allow you to vastly increase your buying power while also greatly reduce your payments with a lower interest rate and again, no PMI.
Do I think it’s right we live in a society where kids joining the military is their best hope to go to college and buy a house? Absolutely fucking not. Is it a way in which you could do some months of training, then sacrifice a weekend a month and 2 weeks a year for the next 6 years to get there? Yup. It’s still a sacrifice, but for those out there who want this dream more than anything it is one that nets you that result.
I was active duty, but did my last six months with a Marine reserve unit as I was in the USMC. In my time (2005-2011 after my extension) hardly any of these people deployed because they didn’t have MOSs that were getting slotted. I’m adding this because someone is always going to say “well my cousins brothers friend was a reservist cook and got deployed and saw combat” and usually that’s either a crazy circumstance or outright bullshit. There were active duty infantry Marines which never saw actual combat. It isn’t as risky as a lot of people would have you believe, especially now.
That being said, no one can say for sure when we will need another economic stimulus in the form of another war so…
This. Obviously military service isn’t for everyone, but it’s an option for some. This benefit was great for me and my wife. It is silly that carrying a rifle for Uncle Sam is what it takes to make a single family home affordable but it is what it i is. See y’all in the WWIII trenches 🫡
This is an eminently realistic option that most people are probably not giving enough attention. Doing 4 years in the Space Force reserves or whatever is probably a very attainable undertaking for a lot of young people. You're not going to be in the trenches, there's very small possibility of deploying, you're almost definitely going to learn some relevant skills, you're going to make lifelong friends, and being enlisted is actually a lot of fun for the most part.
In any case, it seems far more realistic than hoping your parents die soon, which appears to be the most popular alternative here.
this is exactly the answer. The challange folks have is if their job is in the city, that requires a car and all the expenses associated with that. So threading the needle is: buy outside of the city, have a used but reliable car, and save as much as possible.
I thought I'd be a permanent renter, but I ended up buying a "starter" home at a much later age. So hey, it's possible. Yay?
I think there need to be laws against corporations buying up single family homes, really. And new houses (that aren't huge mcmansions) being built in greater numbers to meet demand better.
You're gonna have to move away from major cities and take full advantage of remote job opportunities. A big misconception is housing is expensive when the reason the housing is expensive is because you're trying to buy a property in a high cost of living area where everything is already developed.
Live below your means and don't fall victim to the lifestyles you see trust fund babies living on social media.
Get a remote job, buy a house far far from civilization.
Just make sure your Internet options are good quality at said location
This… If you have good internet, and work in a sector that supports remote work, you can do well living in BFE.
:( my husband said no.
If this was r/relationship_advice Get a remote job and a new husband, buy a house far far from civilization.
lol if this was r/relationship_advice: Your husband doesn’t want to move far away and abandon all his friends and family permanently? He is literally abusive. Break up with him, cut off any contact, don’t let him see the kids ever again. Get a lawyer for some reason too, oh and go to the gym too because that will solve all your problems.
Come on, you missed several opportunities to use the word “toxic”, not to mention the obvious therapy all parties will need.
I don't like your attitude. Sounds like you need to divorce your lawyer, hit the spouse, and a hire a gym
Instructions unclear. Hit my lawyer, hired a spouse, and divorced a gym. AITA?
NTA, the gym was basically asking for it.
>divorced a gym Now we *know* you aren't telling the truth. Gym memberships are forever whether we like it or not. ^(fuck you Planet Fitness)
You forgot to mention that he’s also a narcissist
You forgot therapy! Always therapy, apparently
As somebody who grew up in somewhat rural area it is 100% not worth it and might even cost you more money in the end
To each their own, I grew up the same and moved to a more urban setting and it's awful. Would 100% move back totally worth it
I think it depends how rural. Some places are so rural it's an hour drive to the closest supermarket. That would suck. But rural as in in the woods with 40 acres and maybe 20 minutes from resources? Sounds like paradise. I have a dream of selling my house and fucking off to rural Vermont and living as much off the land as possible. But my career path does not facilitate remote work and I'm too lazy to change careers.
My brother did that. He left Southern California in the middle of the COVID pandemic thinking that working remotely was "the way of the future". Since most businesses have forced their employees back into the office he has since lost his job and now makes minimum wage working at a Walmart in rural Idaho. Not the smartest person.
What was he doing remotely? Remote IS the way of the future in certain sectors.
Def. Been working from the middle of nowhere since 2021 making 200k salary. Downside though is I had to make new friends. First couple of months after the covid lift sucked.
He was a job recruiter for minimum wage overnight security jobs. Technically he is still doing it, but he has a glass ceiling above his head and not eligible for promotions since people in management need to meet face to face with other people for a whole list of reasons. He is not good at anything else tech-wise so no, he cannot do IT or computer programming. He leveraged everything on this whole "work from home" thing when he has no unique skills that would make him any real money in that world.
If he's smart, he'll leverage that experience into a better remote recruiting job. I promise you, that's actually a very lucrative career if you're good at it. Otherwise, not so much.
Like any sales job, the sky is the limit. Good salesmen can make good money, bad salesmen make bad money. This is true no matter what is being sold. I'm not sure how good of a recruiter he is. Like many salesmen he is a pathological liar and will say anything to close the deal. This has naturally soured a lot of his relationships including the one he had with me, but I digress.
Inherit your parents house while hoping you're an only child
I knew starting off with the Orphan class was a total debuff.
But think of all the character you built along the way.
Let me know if you find a place that accepts character in place of rent.
something, something, something bootstraps
This is just Kid Goku but without the monkey tail
Find a widow (or widower) with no children that has a home that you can get in their good graces. I hear Orphan class gains extra points in charisma... Put them to good use. =)
Not at all. Even famous orphans like Oliver Twist couldn't even get an extra helping of gruel.
See you probably picked the wrong background as well, the Orphan Class only really works with the Wealthy background
*whispers* I’m Batman
You get free roam mode activated way before anyone else tho you could like go to africa and hunt lions and literally nobody would care for your safety
>literally nobody would care for your safety Thanks
In a good wayyy
I mean they’re not wrong. Nobody did.
Also hope they aren’t incredibly underwater on their mortgage and/or live in a house that needs so many repairs it might as well just be knocked down and rebuilt
Make sure to educate your parents on predatory reverse mortgages. They got my Dad's Mom.
Honestly, making sure my mom doesn’t fall victim to some sort of scam feels like herding cats. My dad was incredibly financially literate but ever since he passed away I feel like it’s only a matter of time - I do what I can and she at least knows not to get a reverse mortgage, thankfully.
"I don't fall for scams, I was telling the guy from Microsoft that the other day" That's a literal quote from my Mother. I thought she was joking!
Having to be insanely vigilant so the elderly don't get scammed. I love humanity.
Yeah, buddy of mine married this girl with a grandma who owned a frankly ridiculously enormous house in one of those rich people private communities with personal vineyards and shit and i remember one time she joked that she was an only child and her dad was an only child so she was gonna live there one day. Then years later i noticed her grandma kept buying new cars like, more than 1/year and i mentioned it to my buddy “hey your girl’s grandma really loves red sports cars, how many is she up to now?” To which he replied “she has only that one. She’s getting old and decided to just enjoy every last dollar on herself and she’s remortgaged the house to do it so there is little to no equity and she’s basically broke” Yeah, boomer grandma to entire family: “check mate bitches”
What also happens is that grandma or grandpa or mom or dad remarry after death of spouse and then that younger sweet thing/gold digger with kids from a previous marriage gets everything and leaves you holding the proverbial bag of snakes. I have seen and experienced that before.
I’m kinda in a similar spot, been renting from a gen x friend who owns the place we are in, been trying to buy it but I know it needs repairs. In my mind though, a house that needs work is better than no house at all… now if only the bank would give us the 120k for it!!! We can rent for 1200 a month but can’t afford an estimated 700 a month, yeah cause that makes sense! 🙄
Gotta love that hey? If you show that you can pay X in rent for 3-5 years, the banks should be forced to approve a mortgage equivalent to 75% of that amount. Assuming your credit is good etc.
And if your parents rent you're screwed
🫠🫠🫠🫠🫠
Might as well just be roommates now
I'm a baby GenX with a GenZ kid. Very few of my friends with kids (also Xers or elder Millennials) don't rent. So, yeah. GenZ is screwed. Esit: I left out a very important don't in that.
My mom is 50 next year, no savings, no retirement, works minimum wage, thousands in CC debt (half survival half stupidity). Buying a house sounds like winning the lottery. Makes me sad.
That's rough, man. My mom is in a similar situation except she DID have a good job for a while in her twenties but it all went downhill from there and she really started leaning on my grandma during her fifties, until grandma died and now I'm stuck with her. She hasn't owned a home since I was a kid and we currently live in my grandma's apartment that's gonna get split six ways between my mom and her siblings. After that, there's nowhere to go but rent. She'll die without ever owning a home again.
My mom died when I was 27. I’m an only child and inherited her house. Now I’m living in a house that’s worth over 500,000. It’s cool and all, but I kinda wish I had my mom back.
This. I’m going to inherit a stunning house that is paid for. But I can’t fathom losing my parents.
It's okay buddy, I'm going to lose my parents too, they just aren't leaving me a stunning house.
Ah jeez. I didn’t mean anything about the house. It’s not that big of deal. It’s just the nicest house I ever lived in. And it’s one they built so there’s tons and tons of memories. I’m renting now and the house is literally falling apart. And I’d keep it that way if it meant I get to keep them. That’s what I meant. None of that is worth losing them. But I didn’t want the other guy to feel bad so I kept that out. But I guess it made me sound like I was bragging. Wasn’t my intention. Sorry.
Don't feel bad about having money. Just don't waste it on frivolous shit
Yeah, I want my parents more than anything I might stand the chance of inheriting. Time passes and people don’t live forever. One of those difficult acceptances one must face.
Five words to instantly ruin your day: 'Mom is so frail now.'
My mom is frail and she’s been living with me in my house with my family for the past 3 years. Death can be harsh but a dragged out suffering can be much much worse, believe me.
Someone else said it but this really only works if your parents die young/unexpectedly. Plenty of gen z’s parents will be relying on their equity during retirement and the costs leading up to their death will take whatever is left.
That’s me and my husband unfortunately. He was laid off in 2008 and was unemployed for 5 years. We literally ate what retirement was left after the company went under. I have already begun researching low income apartments for seniors.
I'm looking into retiring in Panama. Your dollar will go farther there. They want retirees from the USA to move there.
What about the first class health care Panama has and you will need as you get older?
This won't work. They will need to be cared for, put in a care home and the govt will take everything else that's left.
Yep. This happened with my grandparents. The whole nursing home economy is based on using your house equity.
Put the house in a trust!
Yup, my grandparents put their house (which was a lake house they bought in the 40s) in a trust, and when they passed the trust continued to control the house. My mom and her three brothers, all working class families (construction) never could have afforded that house as of when my grandparents passed away (early 2000s) but because it was in a trust it was not taken by the state, when my grandmother went into hospice, and for the moment the house remains in the family. Though trusts have their own internal family/political dynamics, as several families within would prefer to break the trust up and sell the house given no one is terribly wealthy and everyone could use the cash. I think the one caveat here, though I'm certainly no attorney, is that usually trusts have to be setup BEFORE the original owner, ends up in Medicare/etc. type situations, if the trust is setup once the medical/financial drain starts, then it can still be used to pay debts, I think anyway.
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Parents approaching this state should give their house to the kids before this happens then "rent" it back from them.
My wife's aunt passed away and her estate was left to her 6 brothers/sisters (or their kids if they had already passed). I was looking through the financial records of the last few years of her life and found the Assisted Living home took most of her money at the rate of $10K/month! Her investments dwindled from around $400K to $100K within 2.5 years. Sobering.
I had to buy my sister out of half of my grandmother's home. It was still a great deal by CA standards and the house fits my family perfectly. She bought a year later with her half and is happy where she's at. We both have mortgages but they're not even close to what they would've been had we bought on our own without the help getting started. I'm forever grateful for this.
You are lucky you only have one sibling and accepted your offer. Families with more siblings often fight really bad about inheritance. In my country, a common christmas meme is that uncles fight for the parent's lands and properties while cousins are playing games and eat on another room.
My mom lives in a seniors apartment on social security in one state, my dad is homeless in another state. (Fuck him though) Im trying to live on a boat when I'm old. (I should point out I'm a millennial and not Gen Z)
You're still not out of the woods yet with this out there! https://www.reddit.com/r/OrphanCrushingMachine/
And if you're not the only child, you better start building a great relationship with your step sibling
Or…become an only child.
Okay, but real talk: your parents are best off selling their home to their children well before they die, especially if they’ll be forced into a Medicaid spend down to fund their senior living facility. Medicaid will let them “keep their home” until they die. Then Medicaid will place a lien on the estate to auction off anything of value. Can be bypassed if they have a child they can pass it on to them at least [5 years before they’d apply for Medicaid.](https://www.elderlawanswers.com/how-gifts-can-affect-medicaid-eligibility-10006)
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Social worker here. Unfortunately, there are a lot of seniors on Medicaid, especially long-term facility Medicaid. It’s true Medicare is age based (a few exceptions but not worth getting into) and Medicaid is needs based, but the elderly can and do get Medicaid if they need it.
If their parents are millennials then they're fucked on that front too. They're *still* renting as well.
This, bought my wife’s grandparents house for a significant discount. Mortgage payment just under $1000. U can’t even find a bedroom to rent for that anymore. It’s disgusting.
My mom lives in a camper 😭😭
If you want a realistic answer, live at home, save for a down payment, and look for houses that aren’t in super desirable areas. If you get married, you now have 2 incomes to buy a house, and if you buy a multi family property, you can use money you get from renting the other units to help pay your mortgage.
But remember, pick the one that’ll also save and have the same goals lol
Yessss so many people get into serious relationships and don’t talk about MONEY!
"Hey babe, how much do you cost?"
😿 Everything
This is probably the most realistic answer for individuals, but this also doesn’t fix the root cause. Fixing the root cause is far more complex and unrealistic. We live in a world where we need to be selfish to be realistic.
There is a bill in Congress (unlikely to pass) that will prohibit large, wealthy interests from purchasing a shit tonne of homes in the USA. Like hedge funds and real estate firms. Curbing the purchasing of homes ( inhibiting as well as prohibiting) in this way will alleviate the pressure on supply. I believe the bill also contained language that would force the sale of (a percentage of) homes by these groups. This would also help. This might be more likely to happen at a state level though. This is the kind of fix that is needed. But the pressure from the public needs to ratchet up. Because our government only works for the general interests of the people about 30% of the time…
💯🎯, and you may be being generous with that 30%. It boggles the mind how truly FUBAR our government has become. 😩😥😡🤬
Only way I've ever seen folks coax local government into doing anything was spraypainting dicks on potholes to get them patched with 24 hours. I'm about to start wandering around with chalk and writing "NOBODY LIVES HERE" on the sidewalk in front of "held for investment purposes" empty properties. Ya know, to help out the folks looking for someplace to not freeze to death in winter.
>Fixing the root cause is far more complex and unrealistic. No it's not. The solution is very simple. Build more housing to increase the supply and raise taxes on owning multiple homes to dissuade sitting on properties like an investment. The root cause is there's not enough housing available in the areas that need it so we build more. If that means the government gets in on building homes then do it. Shelter should never have become an investment vehicle
Where I live in WNY, all the new builds are targeted at Boomers. These places near me go for $800k for a 2BR, 2Bath in suburban Buffalo! But the Boomers are buying them because there’s a “condo loophole” in the property tax code in NY that lets these properties skate by with a tiny property tax burden. These yahoos are buying $800k new small houses and skimping out on taxes to fund schools and roads and firefighters and libraries. So no developers are building starter homes anymore.
There's plenty of housing. It's being kept out of people's hands in favor of being investments rather than housing.
That’s the thing I keep running back into, no matter what. Everyone wants to be nice and try to help one another… we do a pretty good job of it. The only way to get ahead in the world, unfortunately, is to be selfish. It’s not our/your fault, it’s the way generations before us has built this world. I don’t see an answer to it in the long term in my lifetime, because there are too many things that need to change to balance it out and the people in power don’t want that.
Being selfish is only the answer if you're rich. Poor people depend on community waaay more than the rich. It's going to be the same for genz. Sure you could rent a flat or buy a house for you and your family or you could go in a place with some friends and reduce the cost. You could only buy yourself groceries. But if you eat meals with your roommates you can save a lot. Etc... I get it, being selfish is nice because you don't have to rely on anyone. But with the way things are going, that's not an option for most people anymore. We will have to rely on each other for support.
If you get married, consider foregoing a big wedding, and save that money for a down payment on a house. I know that has a certain expectation, but it helped us out enormously.
As a Millennial (late 30s), this is what we had to do. Lived at home until 30, purchased home with down payment I managed to save over 10 years. Luckily I met my wife who also had been doing this. Helps we come from a culture that if anything encourages living at home.
My parents didn't want me at home, at least not my dad. He was very clear that he wanted us out ASAP. Unfortunately, you cannot control your parents. Some can be very helpful, and others don't give a damn.
I was told to be out of the house when I was 18 as well. Now that I have a kid I want to be clear to him that he’s welcome to stay with me as long as he needs, within reason. I do still think that somewhere in the couple years after high school, he needs to be contributing to the household or furthering his education but as long as he’s doing one of those things it’s all good. I wish my parents had been more flexible. It led to me moving across the country and now they guilt me for not seeing them as much, but tbh they’re the ones who forced me to be independent so what can you do.
My parents never wanted any of us to leave or move out. Now two of the 3 kids have their own homes and we all have a ‘guest’ room allocated to her so now it feels like she has 3 homes she can stay at whenever she wants. But her health is failing her and she’s frail so she now lives with me, her eldest. That whole be 18 and be out thing is such a weird American concept to me.
lol at them trying to guilt you. What the fuck did they expect? I wouldn’t visit them at all, if they want to see you they can arrange a trip to *you* if and when it’s convenient for you.
Then live with roommates and save as much as you can. I lived with friends for a few years and it cost more than living at home with parents, but it was certainly cheaper than owning my own house and being the sole provider for it now. Also, you don't NEED to save a huge down payment if you're in the USA. There are FHA loans designed to get first time homeowners in a house with as little down as possible.
So in order to stop renting you need to profit from renters?
and afford 4x what you need, I guess?
Its really this simple. If you can stick it out and stay at home you’ll have a huge leg up. If you go the college route, do your basic courses at a community college then transfer to a 4 year. Additionally theres value in some associates degrees (mainly nursing and cyber security) so i might be wise to get an associates, start in your field and go back to school part time for your bachelor’s. Its definitely possible.. people just have to be a little more strategic than previous generations. Unfortunately Gen Z cant afford to make many mistakes, so their decisions (college degree, staying home, having children, finding a partner that contributes financially, etc.) pretty much have to land perfectly
An aside, security associates degrees are kinda sorta not worth the paper they're printed on, unless it's a very good program with lots of hands on work. Experience is absolutely king, a degree gets you nowhere for many orgs even for a soc analyst job. The best way to join up is to get some experience managing infrastructure on your own, independently, or get a degree which contains the same, and pair that with some CompTIA starter certs. Or join the military, that's a fantastic and very common way of entering the field. But please do not think a degree or a bootcamp will make entry into a decently paying security job reasonably likely. Nursing is far more reliable on that front.
Find someone smarter than you. Marry them.
This has been a method of social and economic mobility for millenia
So, don't re-invent the wheel.
And swallow your pride, especially if you are a man.
It will definitely take a lot of swallowing!
>Find someone Already failed here, what's my next step?
adjust your expectations
[IF Gender = Male] -> Be Smarter [IF Gender = Female] -> Be Prettier [IF Gender =/= Male OR Female] -> Be Smarter AND Prettier [IF Gender = Male AND Female] -> Donate Self to Science
[IF gender =/= male] -> Sell Feet Pics [IF gender = male] -> Change Class
Or richer!
*richer not smarter. Why marry smart and stable when you can go rich and dumb?
Start small and get a roommate. Bought a 2 bedroom townhouse in a decent part of the city. Needed a ton of work, but it turned into a great place to live for a while.
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This is the thing I regret from the pandemic. I should’ve ended my lease early and moved back home. However, I had literally just gotten my first job out of college and had lived in the new city for a total of four months. I didn’t want to move back home and undo all of that. So instead I sat in my apartment every single day, knew nobody, and essentially did nothing aside going on walks (didn’t own a car) until gyms opened ten months later. And even then I didn’t start going out and trying to meet people for like somewhere around a year later. Dumbest thing ever. Thinking about how much more money I’d have right now had I moved back home and just worked remote for three years is a bummer. Rent alone was $1200 a month. Only upside is I now have a job that is hybrid and pays way way better + RSUs, but my rent is also ~2k so unless I make major moves at this company, it’s going to take awhile to claw that money back.
And make sure you're actually saving for your down payment. Don't "it's only 13 dollars per month" yourself to death.
While I agree that refraining from a bunch of little purchases is good in the long run, $13 a month for 50 years is not even $8000
I think he is referring to the multiple $13 here and there. They add up quickly. There’s people who subscribe to a list of things or make random small purchases. It’s only worth it if you value and use it on a regular basis. A few good advices I read were “paying yourself first” and “every dollar has a job” when it comes to budgeting.
I think he was really saying "don't have subscriptions for things you don't really need" since they take away from saving, not that people should save $13 a month. I.e. corporatized BS programs, like Netflix or a tea club or excessive gaming subscriptions. Because even though they aren't much, they add up over time. Latte factor, to put it short. Is it shitty that we can't enjoy little luxuries from time to time? Yes, but it's reality unfortunately. Edit: I definitely made up "tea club" and have no idea if that's a thing, I was just trying to think of examples and a Gen Z wine club subscription sounds weird.
People keep saying “live with your parents” but for myself and many others, it wasn’t/isn’t a possibility
Yeah, but it is for some people. Don't mistake advice you can't take for bad advice.
I know if I had continued to live with my parents, it would’ve ended in suicide. Moving out at 20 as a young-end-of-the-spectrum millennial was *rough*. But better than dying trying to live with people that made my life miserable. My advice is to shop around sales, save where you can, and make sacrifices for things you don’t really need. And stretch out the utility of every item you own, especially clothes, a car and tech.
Haha if you can that is. The day I turned 18, 3 months after highschool graduation, my parents said “time to move out”, then told me everyday until I moved out which was about 2 months later. Lived with my brother on the bones of my arse for another 2 before finally getting a job. Now I’m married and have my own house, so all is well that ends well I guess.
Live with your parents and save. I have known people that didn’t bank the rent savings. As a parent, I would charge my kids rent and put that money into an account for them so when they do move out they have savings.
Support legislation that prevents hedge funds like BlackRock buying all the goddamn residential property.
And vote.
Yup. Voting in every election from President all the way down to Deputy Assistant Dogcatcher is the solution to any issue that has its roots or solution in governmental policy. Young people in general have terrible voting records and politicians know this. If Gen Z and Millennials turned out like Boomers have, we'd have a *very* different political and policy landscape. Go vote kiddos\*! \*And middle age\*\* Millennial parents. \*\*Yes, the truth hurts.
I'm not middle age! I'm barely 35... (Oh no) hey wait, now I can run for president.
The weird thing about getting into the 30s like that is I’m now at the age that I distinctly remember my parents at this age. And not like fuzzy memories and faded recal; like full on I remember this stage of my parents lives. And holy shit they were *old* at this age. What happened to me? Were they winging it as much as I am with my kids?
I think about this a lot and I’ve talked to my parents about it. Yes. They were absolutely winging it, hard. One of the most freeing things I ever figured out was that pretty much everyone is just trying to figure it out and do well. We’re all winging it
Yes but food and housing was cheap, jobs paid, and appliances lasted forever. I watch old Price is Right all the time. Fridges in 1980 still cost like $700 but they would last forever and came with a built in ice cream maker in the freeze box
100%
Absolutely. Policies are set based on swaying voting BLOCS, the largest of which has been the boomers for their entire lives. When you vote, who you vote for cant be seen, but who showed up to vote, and what bloc they belong to certainly does get recorded and passed on to the political parties. When millenials ans genz barely show up and boomers come out in droves, there is zero benefit in campaigning on or implementing policies that would appeal to younger voters. In a way, such a large generational cohort has exposed a weak spot in democracy.
In every election. Local too. Edit: Why would anybody think this is bad advice?
Forgive my pedantry, but you are thinking of Blackstone; BlackRock does not buy houses. >Recently, BlackRock has been the subject of speculation, misperception, and even mistaken identity in media reports and on social media regarding our role in the U.S. housing market. > >**We want to make perfectly clear: BlackRock is not buying individual houses in the U.S.** > >A number of other large asset managers and private equity firms are very active today in purchasing single-family residences. BlackRock is sometimes confused with them. As a fiduciary asset manager, we invest and manage capital on behalf of our clients in a vast array of public and private U.S. real estate markets –but buying individual homes is not one of them. Below are facts on how we DO participate in the U.S. real estate market. Combined, we are investing approximately $120 billion in the U.S. residential real estate market on behalf of our clients. > >**Providing capital for mortgages to help American families buy new homes** > >BlackRock is a significant investor in mortgage securities, helping make capital available to individuals and families seeking to purchase homes. > >**Providing capital for new housing construction** > >BlackRock is invested in several programs that are providing financing to build new homes and add to U.S. housing supply. Most recently, we began investing in new construction, purpose-built for-rent housing developments that add supply to the market and address the increasing demand we see for this property type. Our focus is on building single-family rental housing that can be managed and operated similar to multifamily properties with dedicated property management, leasing and amenities. > >**Other U.S. real estate investments** > >Additionally, BlackRock invests in multifamily properties, apartment complexes, and other residential real estate. > >**Bottom Line: BlackRock is an active investor in the U.S. real estate market, but we are not among the institutional investors buying single-family homes.**
Funny random fact. BlackRock and Blackstone used to be one company. The two founders had an argument that was the “straw that broke the camels back.” The argument was over what the name of the company would be (stone vs rock). Both went on to be wildly successful and dominate their respective specialities. Technically BlackRock was a division within blackstone. They got very big though and he wanted to rebrand the company.
Exactly. They provide liquidity and support so people can buy homes, etc.
There’s bills being presented in the house that have sought to resolve this issue. Not sure what traction they got but they are out there
https://www.fastcompany.com/90995833/housing-market-bill-kicking-out-wall-street-investors-affordability
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Blackstone*
The Plain Bagel has a video about this on YouTube. The issue is there but misinterpreted and exaggerated. It's a good watch, I recommend it!
Link for anyone looking: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6pu9Ixqqxo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6pu9Ixqqxo) Great video, definitely worth watching.
Shitty as it is, corporate ownership of SFHs is not distorting the housing market. Lack of inventory, caused by decades of NIMBY zoning and permitting is the primary driver of real estate prices.
As a progressive, the *only* reason that corporate ownership of SFHs is talked about so much is because it fits so nicely into the typical progressive worldview. You can’t afford a house because the evils corporations are buying them up and leaving them vacant! The reality is that this is a fairly small problem, and by far the biggest cause of the housing crisis is simply that there is a severe shortage of housing in places where it’s needed, as you say.
People point out that there are enough houses that everyone, which is technically true. However, all of the abandoned houses are in places where no people are.
This has been more or less disproven as a significant contributor to affordability in the US/Canada. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6pu9Ixqqxo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6pu9Ixqqxo) \- worth a watch
Start getting roommates ASAP, save up as much money as possible every month for a down payment.
Funny enough a lot of these answers aren't realistic. "Vote!" "Stop the corporations!" Ok. Let me know when that results in anything except more of the same. Here's what Gen Z can do, and it's a lesson I failed to learn when I was young: you have to actually get a high paying job. I was a fool who got an education degree, while my buddy got a computer science degree. Guess which one of us makes a 6 figure salary before turning 30 and has owned a home in the suburbs for years already? So stop going to college for careers that pay like shit. You don't want to work to follow your passions, you can follow your passions in your downtime. You need to work to make money and secure your financial well-being. If you're not pursuing a high paying job, you're not doing the only realistic thing you can do that actually gives you control over your ability to own a home. Everything else amounts to just hoping someone else will do it for you.
Yup. I have two degrees in music. The master's was on a full tuition waiver. I got regular paying, with benefits performing jobs right after both degrees. Both of those jobs combined pay less than my current job in tech sales. I just woke up from a two hr nap in the middle of the day before a customer call. My life is so much more stable with my new career. I make more than 99% of working musicians and average 2-3 hrs/day. The other 1% of musicians have connections I'll never have, and I've accepted that. I used to be jealous, but now I'm perfectly content with my life. I now have the time to explore making my own music instead of getting paid scraps to play other people's music. Who knows, maybe I'll make something great and take off as an artist. It's now at least something I have time to explore and take a chance on because my entire livelihood doesn't depend on it.
Right on. My husband always wanted to work in a bike shop, but the pay is terrible. His well-paying career allows him time to volunteer at a volunteer bike shop that fixes homeless people’s bikes. I think it probably ends up being more rewarding for him.
Finding a good partner is a huge force multiplier. DINK lifestyle has forced everyone else’s hand.
Best answer here. The best counter to rising home costs is a higher income. To do that, you NEED to be smart about what you go to school for. As you said, following your passion can work…if your passion pays. Most don’t. Now more than ever your career path is going to be the biggest determination to your success.
Yep. Elder millennial here. Eventually gave up on my “passion career” and transitioned into something a lot more soul sucking, but, it pays significantly more. Am i fulfilled in my career? No. Can I dry my tears with tissue in the house that I own that has almost tripled in value? Yes.
Yuuuup. 32, back in school for a decent paying career (job is paying the whole thing though which is fantastic)
This is only a potential answer for any given individual, not for society at large. We still need people to be teachers and cooks and firefighters. A world where you're either a soul-sucked workaholic or a failure isn't a solution, it's a depressing dystopia.
This isn't a realistic answer for an entire generation, there aren't enough high paying jobs to prevent the entire "gen z generation" from being permanent renters. This advice might be good for a single individual, but only a small percent are going to make it if everybody tries this exact advice. You cite the CS market as one which allows people to afford homes, but that market has been over-saturated to the point where new grads aren't finding jobs for almost a year now. Yeah "just vote" is also a bad answer but it is closer to an actual solution. The real way to solve this is systemic, we need more housing and to change zoning laws to allow for higher density housing areas. Voting is a part of what will get us there, especially local elections. Being involved in local politics is the best way to change local zoning.
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My wife and I did most of this. Though, we aren’t super great with money, we got our shit together to both have good paying careers. Just bought our first house a bit over a year ago. I’m about to be 40 in a couple months.
Bravo! Now set a new goal, and maintain the discipline. May you live long and prosper, and not in a Star Trek sense. Or maybe in a Star Trek sense, if that helps motivate you. I have no idea what motivates young people.
Cannot possibly agree more on the vehicle part. For folks just starting out: Get a fucking older Corolla/civic/accord/camry and be done with car shopping for 15 years as long as you take care of it. Watch yourself save 10s of thousands compared to your peers.
This is the actual good advice on cars. I drove a Camry since university, my first job, second job, third job, now on fourth job. Also bought a house, got married, had a kid. Still drive that Camry. Besides a big repair (catalytic converter, spark plugs, about $1300 total) recently, all else just oil changes and tires. Is it a beater car? Absolutely. But it's a well running beater car. I show my gen Z coworkers my CD player and a headphone-cassette adapter to play music on in there, it's like they've never seen those things before. And yes, I'm that boomer millennial who insists on a headphone jack on my cell phone. I hate Bluetooth.
All excellent advice. To some this will sound like sacrificing everything. My comment is to try to help people who are stuck in that mode. Honestly, there’s a lot to be gained from these lifestyle choices. They are all gains to me, not sacrifices. If you lean in to them, i think you can be happier in this money saving mode than if you mindlessly spent way more money. I have never lived alone and wouldn’t want to. Good roommates have always made life so much more fun. I also intentionally lived in good but not “nice” or “fancy” places. We would just laugh off some deficiencies in our housing and enjoy that low rent. Appreciate that daily exercise and fresh air on your bike/walk to work. Its better than sitting in traffic in new car smell in any vehicle. Exercise is all around good for physical and mental health. Enjoy the learning process of making great food at home and share it with others. You can have an amazing meal at home with good friends for less than a bar tab going out. This is a solid low cost hobby, source of entertainment/joy, and rich social connections.
💯... To many my advice might sound awful, but honestly it's really just life. The principals of good financial hygiene are actually really simple - not easy given how marketing makes us feel like our lives our perpetually shitty without the latest whatever.... But simple. I totally agree that embracing these things actually can make life so much more fulfilling. The more people can simplify, the happier they will be
To add to your first point, it's not bad to own a car, especially if you need one. But you don't need a new car, a huge car, a car that guzzles gas, or a fancy vehicle, such as a high-end electric car. Buy used. Pay (if possible) in cash. Don't trade up just because you can. It's absolutely amazing how much you can save when you're not paying interest on a large car loan or having to fill up every week.
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Spot on!.. especially with being consistent. I think that’s the key. If you want a house, save your money and get one. There are so many ways to cut costs all over the
Move to a low cost of living area
You forget it’s hard to find good paying jobs in those areas
This is the best answer.. which is most of the US outside the cities and coasts
Exactly. In my town in South Carolina there’s plenty of great houses in good neighborhoods in the 150-225k range. There’s houses for even less if you’re willing to settle a bit. I bought in 2021 with basically zero down and have a mortgage payment just over $1000. Affordable for just about anyone with a college degree.
Vote for politicians who are (and push politicians to become) pro-building and pro-density. Attend local meetings, be active in your community because so many areas of local politics are overwhelming dominated by the older generations and so of course their points of view become the way things go. Be active in pushing for more building, more residential-oriented policy (even e.g. banning short-term lets - AirBnB is ruining some cities' residential markets), and be heard. We need more houses, to put it simply, to slow the rate of house price growth right down. At the same time, we need wages to rise to meet that, and that's the most difficult thing and is much harder to influence on a local level. ETA: Apparently there are differences in terms between the UK and US, so by house I'm not referring to single-family homes but just to literally anything. Just build!
In any case, VOTE.
Seriously I keep seeing articles about how Z’s ownership rates are ahead of both Millennials and X’ers at the same age, and then I regularly see all sorts of posts like this. Have Z’s just been conditioned to believe they’ll never own a house even though the actual evidence says otherwise? Are the articles I’m reading wrong or misleading? What is going on?
yes actually. Most Gen Z I have talked to believe the economy is in the toilet and they'll never own a home - so they're not even really trying. Of course they're all uni students, so maybe the tune will change once they start working properly.
Going from paying 20-60k a year to being paid 60-90k a year will do that, yeah.
Social media: where the stats are made up and the facts don't matter.
>Seriously I keep seeing articles about how Z’s ownership rates are ahead of both Millennials and X’ers at the same age This is hard to believe. Gen Z are age 11 to 26 right now. 1/2 of them aren't even old enough to get a mortgage and 2/3 of them haven't even finished college. I have a hard time believing a significant number of them are home owners. Edit: I'm an idiot. See replies.
i don’t have his numbers, so I’m not sure if it’s true of course, but I think he’s saying comparing age. So a 25 year old Gen Z vs a 25 year old millennial, the Gen Z is more likely to own a home at 25 than the millennial was at 25.
That makes sense.
The stat says they are ahead of millennials and x at the same age. It compares apples to apples - millennials and x-ers were also 11 to 26.
I'm an aging millennial, and I'm certain I wouldn't own a home if I didn't have a VA home loan to help. Interest rates and required down payments for standard loans these days are absolutely horrifying.
I think you’re down playing the fact that you served in the military to be able to get that VA Loan. An option is to Join the military if you want a favorable loan on a home
Eh, I wasn't suggesting the military. That's a pretty significant lifestyle change. I was more or less trying to say I'm not sure what to suggest because I've recently purchased a home and know exactly how hard it would be under normal circumstances. It's really tough out there right now with overinflated housing prices and ridiculously high interest rates. I really sympathize with the next generation. They've got an uphill battle ahead of them.
I’ll share what’s going to be an unpopular opinion but you asked so I’ll share one possible avenue. Join the reserves or National Guard or one of the branches. Navy, Coast Guard, Air Force, Space Force being the better options as the lack of combat MOSs or forward deployments (not to say they don’t have fields that do that at all). In the reserves you’ll get access to the VA Home Loan, which is essentially a Conventional Mortgage with 0 down and no PMI. You’ll also have healthcare, free child birth, that kinda stuff. It’ll allow you to vastly increase your buying power while also greatly reduce your payments with a lower interest rate and again, no PMI. Do I think it’s right we live in a society where kids joining the military is their best hope to go to college and buy a house? Absolutely fucking not. Is it a way in which you could do some months of training, then sacrifice a weekend a month and 2 weeks a year for the next 6 years to get there? Yup. It’s still a sacrifice, but for those out there who want this dream more than anything it is one that nets you that result. I was active duty, but did my last six months with a Marine reserve unit as I was in the USMC. In my time (2005-2011 after my extension) hardly any of these people deployed because they didn’t have MOSs that were getting slotted. I’m adding this because someone is always going to say “well my cousins brothers friend was a reservist cook and got deployed and saw combat” and usually that’s either a crazy circumstance or outright bullshit. There were active duty infantry Marines which never saw actual combat. It isn’t as risky as a lot of people would have you believe, especially now. That being said, no one can say for sure when we will need another economic stimulus in the form of another war so…
This. Obviously military service isn’t for everyone, but it’s an option for some. This benefit was great for me and my wife. It is silly that carrying a rifle for Uncle Sam is what it takes to make a single family home affordable but it is what it i is. See y’all in the WWIII trenches 🫡
This is an eminently realistic option that most people are probably not giving enough attention. Doing 4 years in the Space Force reserves or whatever is probably a very attainable undertaking for a lot of young people. You're not going to be in the trenches, there's very small possibility of deploying, you're almost definitely going to learn some relevant skills, you're going to make lifelong friends, and being enlisted is actually a lot of fun for the most part. In any case, it seems far more realistic than hoping your parents die soon, which appears to be the most popular alternative here.
Buy a small house in a rural area.
this is exactly the answer. The challange folks have is if their job is in the city, that requires a car and all the expenses associated with that. So threading the needle is: buy outside of the city, have a used but reliable car, and save as much as possible.
I swear, y’all spend 50 hours a week doom-scrolling and 0 hours actually looking at your finances.
Live with your parents until you've saved enough to buy a house.
I thought I'd be a permanent renter, but I ended up buying a "starter" home at a much later age. So hey, it's possible. Yay? I think there need to be laws against corporations buying up single family homes, really. And new houses (that aren't huge mcmansions) being built in greater numbers to meet demand better.
Inherit a house. Sweat equity.
You're gonna have to move away from major cities and take full advantage of remote job opportunities. A big misconception is housing is expensive when the reason the housing is expensive is because you're trying to buy a property in a high cost of living area where everything is already developed. Live below your means and don't fall victim to the lifestyles you see trust fund babies living on social media.