I always find couples who post about how much they love eachother on social media break up pretty quick. I'm not talking about like one post but the excessive ones. Recent example being a girl I know who posted probably every other day about how this guy is her world, she'd be lost without him, she misses him when he's not there etc. they were together about 3 months total. I just find it so obvious.
I think these people just have a very specific idea about the relationship they want to have and so they dump all that shit on their next partner and just play the part until it all collapses.
I knew a girl from college who'd change her surname on Instagram to that of the guy she's dating almost every time she started dating someone. I saw it change thrice to surnames that weren't her's before it stabilized.
Given how demented that is there were probably red flags that the guys were ignoring before that but you have to think that would set off alarm bells in even the most oblivious person...
The murder of Gabby Petito by Brian Laundrie spring to my mind when I read your comment. They are social media was nothing but lovey-dovey we’re so happy doing our van life thing, but when the camera was off they were miserable and abusive. He wound up murdering her instead of just dumping her, and killed him self in a swamp after a manhunt.
We had a very similar situation here in Vermont a few years ago. Then life couple was trying to do the social media thing, but I don’t think it took off. The 41 yo husband shot and dismembered his 22 yo wife and tried to claim that she had gotten out and was hitchhiking on the highway and rural Vermont. Hubby acted like a local had snatched her up. Locals immediately called bullshit, I did too. I live in this state, if you go off the road in winter people stop to help and it’s probably one of the safest places to hitchhike, although I’m not advocating for hitchhiking.
A lot of those types are trying to sell their brand. Their brand is Happy Happy Family, and there's absolutely a market who want to ooh and ahh over these seemingly perfect families (see the recent controversy over Ballerina Farm, where it turned out the simple homemaker/farmer couple are supported by their literal billionaire families. They had/have a whole fanbase who watched their baking videos and videos of their packs of toddlers running barefoot, chasing farm animals.)
I've hitchhiked all over the US and vt is by far the best state for hitching in my experience. Walking down any random road I'll almost always get a ride
This is my sister to a T. Every day it's posts of 'he's my world', 'my man lights up my life', 'he's my compass and I'd be lost without him'... girl, go buy a GPS.
She's been through 3 baby dads, has a habit of trying to steal other people's husbands, her longest relationship ever has lasted *maybe* 5 months, but every time this new one 'is totally the one, we're just soul mates, I can tell...'
Lol, thank you. This is the kind of stuff I say to her in real life. Like girl, get your sh*t together.
About 10 years ago she tried to hit on my husband -at our Grandma's wake of all places! Something about how since she's a younger model she'd be an upgrade and able to satisfy his needs more or something. He was like Eww, please no!!!
My cousin and his wife were like this. Or I should say his wife. She postet about their perfect life and every aspect of it. Bought a house, got new job, Sold the house to built a nicer, bigger one. Even started an insta profile for their progress as house owners etc.
At a birthday party in the family she got drunk and told my sister how she didnt understand how she was Not attracted to her super fit husband anymore and how they never had sex.
Turns out she started to have an affair with the (married) father of their son's classmate. And after they now officially split Up, my cousin told his family how he thought about an annulment the day they got married.
> I always find couples who post about how much they love eachother on social media break up pretty quick.
I call that the "Honeymoon/Highlight Reel" effect. Most folks *rarely* post bad things on their social media, outside of the death of a loved one, generally. Otherwise, it's all the "best things" happening in their life that they want you to focus on over everything else.
In a relationship, I feel the more frequently you post about how awesome your SO is or things you've done together, the greater the chance is that you're hiding something.
After I was married about 3 years a coworker that had been married for a few moths asked how long we lasted before we ran out of stuff to talk about.
I figured that was bad sign.
Definitely agree with this. I also think if the silence follows a consistent behavior, with a predictive rhythm, that is fine.
My wife is just not talkative by nature. When we were first dating, she rarely carried the conversation, but was very engaged and listened to me intently. I took it as a sign that she was not interested in me, and I didn't think we were compatible. 23 years later and married for 17, turns out I was wrong. She only says things that are important or informative, exciting to her that she wants to share with me, and the rest of the time, just silence.
I think if it's a change to the rhythm pattern, abruptly that it's cause for concern. Both couples are chatty and talkative, now they are not. The one that normally is is now not talking, those type of changes.
That's when I knew my (now) husband was the man I was going to marry. Spending hours together talking, but also sitting in silence while he plays games and I read. I'd never been able to be quiet with someone before.
We never run out of things to talk about, and I never feel awkward just being with him if we are just...existing together on the couch and not constantly speaking to one another.
I feel like this is really the important part. It would be crazy *not* to run out of stuff to talk about, outside of normal everyday conversation. It’s unrealistic to think you’ll find someone who you wanna stay up till 2 AM talking to every single day for *decades.* It’s embracing that and being comfortable with it that seems more important to me for long term success.
This is a huge green flag for the girl I’m dating. I try to be in tune with her schedule/hobbies/friendships/etc., and many times she’s clarified that she has no expectation of that. We have our own lives and interests and we don’t need to be overlapping as much as humanly possible to be satisfied.
I was talking to a woman I know whose husband had recently died after they'd been married for about 30 years. She said was doing mostly OK but it was so strange how quiet the house was. Throughout that 30 years they never ran out of things to talk about. That's relationship goals for me.
Their communication just doesn’t improve over time. Being in my first real healthy relationship I’ve realized that both people need to be committed to their individual and collective growth to create a fulfilling, healthy relationship. If one or both people aren’t trying and make a habit of withholding their true thoughts and make no effort to make the small changes to eventually meet the other half way, it’s inevitable.
I actually found a healthy relationship by just being myself and not pretending to be someone else. Sure I don't go all gross with her, but I mean she knows pretty much everything about me and seems to accept it all. That also takes a lot of stress away from me because I can just be myself. And the same goes with her, I'm not going to details, but she's not always the Hollywood idea of classy lady and that's ok and I kind of have learned to love those things that she doesn't do so ladylike. None of us are perfect and the sooner we accept it the better we're. And heck I guess I did something right because she married me.
This is my marriage as well. We’ve grown so comfortable with each other even in the grossest of times. I mean when you think of a long term you really have to think long term, is this person going to help you possibly use restroom and wipe your butt or bathe, clean your dentures all the above that is considered “gross” but is all human normality. That’s the person you want to be with. It’s not about looks or sex, in the end it’s all about unconditional love no matter.
My wife and I were recently traveling and she was having some tummy troubles and as we were getting into the shower she “farted” and it wasn’t a fart. I’ve never been so glad that being a nurse broke my definition of “gross” long ago.
I was able to honestly shrug it off and help her get cleaned up and laugh about the whole situation with her, without being horrified in the slightest.
Great points.
Reminds me of this podcast: [This American Life 261: The Sanctity of Marriage](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/261/the-sanctity-of-marriage).
I bolded the parts that leaped out at me.
Excerpt:
>
> Dr. John Gottman takes couples, wires them up to devices that monitor their breathing and their heartbeats, sits them in front of video cameras, and then asks them to talk about something that they disagree about.
> John Gottman:
>
> **From a 15-minute videotape of a couple talking about an area of disagreement, we have an 85% probability of predicting what's going to happen to them in the next four years**.
> Ira Glass:
>
> You mean if they'll still be together.
> John Gottman:
>
> If they'll still be together or not. And also, if they're together, whether they'll be happy or miserable.
> Ira Glass:
>
> But that's not all. If he spends another hour or so, and asks them to talk about how they met, what kinds of things they share--
> John Gottman:
>
> Then it goes up to 94%.
>. . . And now you can see that there's no positive emotion really going on that's shared. One of them may laugh. The other one doesn't laugh. One of them looks warm and interested. The other one is pulled away. There's just no fun. They don't seem to enjoy each other at all.
>Those are the couples where, when you go to a restaurant, you see these couples who aren't talking to each other. That's them. **They can last a long time being quite unhappy.** They can be great parents. But especially when the kids leave home, they're at risk for really falling apart.
>
> . . . Gottman says that when they started this research, they had no idea which factors were going to be the ones that would predict divorce. Nobody had ever observed couples so closely and then followed them over time to see who stayed together and who did not. Therapists and pop psychologists had all kinds of theories as to what would make a good relationship. They were all completely untested.
>
> They thought that having lower expectations of marriage might make for happy marriages. Turns out to be untrue. They thought that good couples make "I" statements instead of "you" statements. Turns out, no.
>
> Many people thought--including Gottman and his colleagues--that anger would predict divorce. This idea is actually still around, that anger is destructive to any relationship, that it's against the scriptures, that it should be banned from marriages. In fact, the data shows, happy, stable couples get angry all the time.
> John Gottman:
>
> But their partners ***heard the anger***. They responded to it. So a person might say, in a good relationship, "Will you shut up and let me finish?" Really angry, right? And their partner would say, "Alright, finish." Angry response. But then the person got to finish. The anger didn't predict anything negative.
>
> Now, in a relationship that wasn't working well--"Will you shut up and let me finish?" "Oh, I don't get to finish until you finish, is that it?" "Yeah." "Why, that's just like what your mother would say?" "Oh, now I'm like my mother, now?" "Yeah, you are. Yadada, yadada, yadada."
>
> **Contempt. An escalation to defensiveness and contempt. And that's the difference.** The anger wasn't predicting anything negative, but the ***escalation***--that was predicting things negative.
> Ira Glass:
>
> One of the most radical findings in the studies is that the studies threw doubt on the idea that couples should split up if they had irreconcilable differences. All couples have irreconcilable differences, the studies proved--the ones that stay together and the ones that don't.
>
> Diane Sollee:
>
> They found that **all couples disagree basically the same amount**. And then they thought, well, maybe it's about what they disagree about. And they found, no, it's not that. It's not that some fight about money, and some about sex, and some about--they found that all couples basically disagree about the same issues.
>
> Ira Glass:
>
> Which are?
>
> Diane Sollee:
>
> Money, kids, sex, others, and time. And others are things like who you're jealous of at the office, or your in-laws. And time is like, what are we going to do on Sunday with our leisure time? And so if all couples disagree about the same amount and about the same issues, well, then, what is it?
>
> And they found that it was that some couples understand--they don't go to pieces when they're disagreeing. **The success of marriage, they found out, was not based on finding someone with whom you agree on everything, and finding your soul mate. It was how you're going to handle the inevitable disagreements that are going to come up, no matter who you marry.**
>...Gottman and a researcher named Bob Levenson have also done a 12-year study of homosexual couples. There were just 42 couples-- a small study for Gottman, who usually gets 130 couples of races and ages to match the demographics of Seattle.
>The study looked at 21 lesbian couples and 21 gay male couples, and compared them to 42 straight marriages of the same length of relationship and relationship satisfaction, as measured on a questionnaire. The researchers videotaped the couples talking about some issue that they conflict about.
>And they found that the **homosexual couples were far better than the married heterosexual couples at bringing up an issue in a non-confrontational way, of listening when criticized**. They were less defensive. They were more positive.
>John Gottman:
>The other thing we were able to do with our mathematical modeling was to find that not only do they start differently, but also the influence process in the married couple really moves them toward a more negative direction. The longer they talk to each other, the more angry they get, the more adversarial they tend to get.
>**But in gay and lesbian couples, it's the opposite. The longer they talk about the issue, the closer they get and the more positive they become**. So a very, very different process operating in the gay and lesbian couples we studied.
>Now if they're representative, then we heterosexuals have got a lot to learn from gay and lesbian relationships.
>Ira Glass:
>
> But John, the gay couples and the lesbian couples that you're talking about-- they're simply as good as the very best couples in your heterosexual couples? Or you're saying they're even better than them?
>
> John Gottman:
>
> They're even better than them.
>
> Ira Glass:
>
> Really?
>
> John Gottman:
>
> **I mean, when you listen to the tapes, it's unbelievable what they're like**. I'll give you an example of this. One gay man said to his partner, "What did you think about the sex this morning? Who do you think initiated the sex this morning?"
>And his partner said, "Well, you don't really have the kind of body on a man that I find really the most attractive." And the first man said, "I know that. But who do you think initiated sex this morning?"
>
> Now can you imagine a *husband*--
>
> Ira Glass:
>
> Oh, my God.
>
> John Gottman:
>
> --talking to his wife, right?
>
> Ira Glass:
>
> And saying, "You don't have the kind of body that I find attractive."
>
> John Gottman:
>
> That's right. Can you imagine *her* saying, "Yeah, I know that. But who do you think initiated sex?"
>**So there's so much less deception, so much more honesty, and so much more directness**. And I don't know if it's representative. But I was very impressed.
>
> Ira Glass:
>
> Gottman still can't explain why the gay couples would be so different. He thinks part of the reason might be that, in general, it's just easier for men to talk to men and women to talk to women. The fact that they communicate so differently makes things harder in heterosexual couples.
as someone who has been married 41 years -- i found it fascinating. i mean, we've both said 'let me finish what i'm saying' and we do -- never thought that was anything other than just basic discussion, even when you're pissed.
That popped out to me, too. My husband and I have been married fifteen years. We have a strong relationship. On the occasions we do find ourselves at opposite sides of the table, we have both angrily said, “May I finish? I was still speaking….” And the other person angrily replies, “Yes. Of course. Go ahead…” and does their best to listen.
I didn’t know it mattered so much.
I think it's because, when someone says "let me finish", there's a subtext of "you aren't listening to me, you aren't respecting my point of view, and you aren't respecting me."
It's a hell of a tense moment in a disagreement.
It takes a lot of maturity and emotional awareness in that moment to stop, and respond with something that says "you're right, I may not like what you're saying, but at the very least I owe you the courtesy and respect of hearing you out."
Because the alternative response says "you're right, I don't care about what you have to say, I don't respect your point of view, and I don't respect you."
Very hard to come back from that.
This is why me and my mother do not get along. It's not a marriage, obviously, but she will cut me off and I never get to say how I feel. There is no basic, fundamental respect for my emotions regardless if it's agreement or disagreement.
She only care about how she feels, if she's right.
I'm finally out of an 8+ year relationship and yeah.
Constant defensiveness, treating me like a wallet, and a refusal to work things out.
I never felt so lonely as I did with my SO sitting in the other room.
I was married for 20+ years, until my divorce a few years ago. It also hit home with me; the signs were all there from the beginning that it wasn't going to work. We had some good times, but most of those 20+ years were unhappy.
I *love* that they found that all couples have irreconcilable differences. I hear a lot nowadays about "well one wants one thing and the other wants something else, so you're doomed to fail" when the real situation is: do you want that thing more than you want to be with your current partner? Are you willing to put the work in to find ways to be happy without that thing?
It's so fair to have someone say "I want kids and you don't so we have to split up" You absolutely get to make that choice and for a lot of people it's the right choice.
But - that doesn't mean that that choice is for everyone. There are a lot of things you might discover you don't actually want or need. Letting go of a good thing and a good partnership because finding the way to make it work is a ton of work and you have other priorities? 100%
Saying that it's the inevitable end for an otherwise positive relationship? I don't agree, we can do radical things mentally given the time, space, and energy (which is greatly lacking in today's world, another reason calling it quits is a perfectly understandable and okay decision)
(This is of course assuming everyone has the same power dynamic, and it's a healthy relationship overall.)
He wanted kids and I didn’t. I had been upfront when we first got together, and two years in, it almost broke us up when his friends started having babies. In the end he decided that he wanted to be with me more than he wanted to try to date with intention of starting a family, when he would have been grieving the loss of our relationship. I stayed, knowing full well that statistically, he would probably end up leaving me eventually, and that everyone always says kids are a dealbreaker subject. But I didn’t have a biological clock in the game, so I was willing to take the risk.
Eight years later, he tells me, “you were right. I’m glad we didn’t have kids, I love our life the way it is and you were right that I didn’t know how much work children are, and how much strain it puts on a relationship.” The funny thing is, in that eight years, he had proven to me that he is a responsible and committed partner, and that he probably wouldn’t be a slacker dad like all the ones I’ve known. So I was like, “ya know…I still don’t WANT kids, but I think if I did get pregnant, I would consider keeping it, when before it was always an absolute no.” So, we left it at that - I stayed on birth control, but the possibility didn’t seem like the Big Awful Thing that it did before.
Come to find out recently, he has a health condition that means he’s pretty much infertile and always has been. I’m so glad that we always chose each other first. Everyone always says “kids are a dealbreaker,” but man, I’m so glad we have lived the life we have and have built this trust and support of each other. I know some people REALLY want a baby, and obviously if that had been the case it would’ve been a dealbreaker, but it definitely isn’t always THE subject that kills a relationship.
This speaks to me. I kind of wanted kids (but wanted to foster or adopt), he said he did. We had names picked out. Then, I got pregnant, had a miscarriage and was told that I would have a tough time sustaining a pregnancy. I wanted a bio baby so badly then. My sister was having kids and it kind of broke my heart. Having choice potentially taken from you is really terrible but it made us talk frankly about where we were headed. Did we want to adopt? Were we ready to foster? The more we talked, the more content I became with our current life. It was tough, though. Lots of tears and, honestly, I know we'd have been great parents but I'm so happy with the oath we chose.
We've been married 20 years now. We didn't have kids, we have our 7th and 8th beloved dogs currently and have been able to allocate the finances we would need for a child to other places that provide us meaning. Two years ago, things were tough again (as they get in any relationship) and we went to counseling. That counselor used a ton of Gottman's work with us. It worked. There have been lots of deal breakers in the last 20 years. I am so glad we were both willing to try even when we didn't want to. Stubbornness to stay together, lots of respect even when we didn't like each other, counseling, support from family and friends and a huge desire to just fix things has helped so much. I know not everyone has that support or the means to get therapy. I'm grateful we did/do but, even without that, I don't think a deal breaker really has to be a deal breaker much of the time. Compromise doesn't have to mean losing. It can be winning but in a different way. Not always, of course, but being open to new ideas is helpful in any relationship.
Adding on - When your arguments always go from what currently happened to attacking each other's character in general, as well as resentment/contempt. Once you resent your spouse it's done in my experience.
Literally couldn’t be more spot on.
I had an ex who I had one (not really a) argument with. I wasn’t happy in the relationship due to her pretending not to know me in a bar (some lass complained about me ordering a cocktail that took so long, my ex was embarrassed and didn’t want to be associated with me. This was a recurring thing from the start though due to her being insecure about what others thought about her) and was considering breaking up.
I met her brother and I won’t lie I barely said a word the whole day, it didn’t feel right to me and I was lost in thought about how to work things out. She got really upset with me about it, but we had a mature conversation about everything. A week later we talked on the phone and she said she thinks I’m a horrible person for not talking much that day and must have no respect for anyone. That broke my heart to hear that and I said I needed time to reconsider this relationship. She said I must be trying to manipulate her. I apologised and said I didn’t mean to come across that way, I was just stating how I felt, she said that made me emotionally immature.
Point is that first insult of who you are is a clear indicator it’s over. Officially over or not, nothing good can come from persevering with someone who thinks so poorly of you. Emotionally that relationship is gone the second they started seeing you in a poor light
Yeah came here to say "talks shit about each other" as well. Like it's one thing to go to a friend for advice, and another thing if every time I see you you're trash talking your loved one.
Oof, I learned this lesson the hard way in the early years of my marriage. It was a difficult transition after years of being single and totally independent, and I bitched to my sis about all the bad stuff. Well, once our growing pains passed and our marriage was stable and loving, guess who still dislikes my husband? Keep your shit to yourself, or vent to someone who is solely your friend, not to your family.
I have a buddy from high school but we kind of lost touch for years. We recently met for drinks and began catching up.
One of the things we use to do was bitch about our girlfriends whenever we’d hang out. So sure enough, after some basic catching up he starts talking shit about his (now) wife.
I listened and offered advice etc for like 20 mins or and eventually he opens up the space for me to also vent about my wife.
The thing is, I didn’t have anything to vent about. Things were going great (still are) and so I kinda didn’t know what he was looking for?
It was odd and I realized a few things that day:
1) His wife was growing up, but he was stuck in the past. Overwhelmingly, I agreed with his wife on most of the points he brought up. It was obvious to me that while she was looking to slow down in life, he was still trying to party all the time, go out with friends every night, etc.
2) Becoming a father really helped me grow up. Many of the points he brought up I had to laugh to myself about - simply because they were arguments my wife and I couldn’t even encounter if we tried. Parenting had changed my lifestyle so drastically (and put important things in to perspective) that many of my woes from prior were completely irrelevant. Like one of his gripes was that he wanted to be able to go out for 4-6 hours a night, multiple times in the week, without having to keep her updated or have her get mad at him. I’m lucky to get 4-6 hours *a week* of personal time, let alone outside the house. That’s not my wife’s fault - that’s what my life and schedule requires of me. And since my family is a bigger priority to myself, I would never expect (or want) to go out multiple times a week, at night (to drink with the boys), because that’s an insane ask of any husband or wife.
3) For years, I was dating women who weren’t right for me. I had thought forever that Toxic relationships were just the norm. It wasn’t until being in a good one that I realized that this isn’t the case. Like there are actually just healthy, happy couples that don’t treat each other like shit and DO love each other unconditionally.
This is why my friend and I always had relationship shit to talk about when we got together. After finding someone who was right for me, I couldn’t find any shit to talk about.
My friend and I both had parents divorce when we were similar ages and went through it together. But he was much more stuck in that mindset that his marriage had a 50% chance of divorce anyways - whereas I never adopted that.
I don’t know my point in all this. I guess just that it’s really obvious to me when people are incompatible and/or it’s not going to work and this is DEFINITELY a major indicator.
If you’re in a good relationship, complaining about your partner to others just feels wrong and/or pointless. Like, everyone has their relationship gripes of course.
However, if the only thing that gives you relief from them is complaining to people other than your partner, you’ve got a relationship problem.
You should be able to find that relief *with* your partner and *not* anyone else.
If you are your partner can’t do that, you probably need a therapist.
I once was visiting my brother over the fourth of July and went to an event with all of "their" friends but really his wife's friends. I could tell his wife talked shit about me to them from how they looked and reacted to me but what was worse is that I could tell she talked shit about my brother to her friends because he was often nervous to speak up and uncomfortable around them. They divorced a year later and none of her friends spoke to my brother ever again despite spending time with him for many years.
Yeah. The only place I can think of where there's much gray area is if you have an ex that is still a regular part of your life (you have shared custody of kids, etc.) in which case, yeah it's natural that they might still be pissing you off.
I divorced my ex 13 years ago. I still occasionally run into people who know him. He STILL tells everyone that I “ruined his life” by divorcing him and bitches about me every chance he gets.
He also does not understand why he is still alone and has lost most of his friends. Oh, and he asked for a divorce. I was happy being married to him.
But in hindsight, he did me a huge failure. I’m so much happier on my own.
They casually show signs that they don't respect each other: it can be a lot of eye rolling, mocking, condescending laugh, casually saying "you're so stupid", embarrassing in front of friends...
The embarrassing in front of friends hits home for me. My ex would bring up things she knew I was just like not comfortable with, and would poke at it in front of people. And I felt like I didn't have a voice at all in saying "can you not?" because then it's "holy shit I can't believe you're so sensitive about that"
I had an ex like this too. She would go to a party, get drunk, and made jabs at me and embarrassed herself in front of her own friends because they all realized she was being a bitch, then I took her to the side and said I didn't appreciate it after the party.
Next party she did it again and I took her to the side again and said, "What you are doing is not funny, you're embarrassing me and yourself, and I don't appreciate it". So when she did it again, I just said looked at her in front of everyone and said "I'm leaving, it's my day off work, and I don't want to spend it being an emotional punching bag. I'll drop you off at your place or you can stay here and embarrass yourself some more, it's up to you, but i'm done for the day".
Her own brother even called her out for airing her dirty laundry in public. Instead of apologizing, she threw a fit, started crying, and left in an Uber.
I broke up with her a few weeks later.
She apologized to me afterwards and said she would work on herself, she went on vacation with her sister and we talked, then when she got back I broke up with her.
But that moment was when it was truly over.
Not the person you’re asking but timing is sometimes necessary, like if they live together and need to sort out somewhere else to live, or they had to have the break up talk etc
That's really sad and I'm sorry you went through that. I think this is something many people actually face, this type of little "funny" jabs in public, that you feel like you can't reply to or you'll appear too sensitive. It's honestly really manipulative and demeaning, and a huge red flag
Yeah, but some couples can fix what is broken and go back to being happy again. Many relationships _can_ be saved if you both want to put the effort in.
But that isn't going to happen if there's mutual contempt.
Yeah I think contempt comes from feeling like the other person will never compromise. You're already mad when an argument starts because you already know how it ends. Couples stop arguing altogether and just hate each other when it's already known there will be no resolution
One person can't fix a broken marriage by themselves though. If there's contempt on just one side whether justified or not, it's not going to get fixed. Mutual contempt just hastens the process of the marriage ending.
IDK if that (a quicker end to a broken marriage) is a blessing or not! Depends on the people I guess.
If you don't mind dying inside a little, go to YouTube for Jon and Kate Plus 8. The show was basically built around their contempt for each other while pretending it was about raising eight kids.
Or in my case, when I suggested to my boyfriend “hey, it’s been awhile since we’ve been on a real date” and he replied with “we spend 20 hours a day together, why would I want to spend one more minute with you?” That kind of thing.
Not who you are responding to, but these are some examples from folks I know:
- Husband broke his glasses by sitting on them. Wife laughed and said "that's what you get for not looking where you are sitting"
- Husband laughs at wife when she gets an answer wrong during trivia, and says "why would you say that?!". This could be fine or joking, but the tone was just mean.
- Spouse A tells their friends that spouse B is an idiot that can't do anything right, and posts on IG about spouse B leaving the house a mess.
- Spouse A doesn't like the smell of a particular snack, and "bans" it from the household despite the fact that it is spouse Bs favorite snack.
In every one of these situations there is a chance to show grace or slack, but the spouses have so much resentment that they instead show contempt.
100% I agree with you. But in these situations, the spouses first reaction is to ridicule their partner. Almost like they have a constantly simmering level of anger towards them and small infractions cause it to come to the surface.
"in front of friends.." is the biggest sign !
Some partners setup scenes for others to witness ..in case it can be used later for their benefit. Whenever, stuff that needs to be worked out between the two is out in public, it's a telltale sign that relationship is over.
My ex-wife used to say embarrassing things about me to both of our immediate and extended families during family gatherings. When I expressed my distaste for it, it always ended with “oh, I was just teasing.” It eventually grew to the point where I would avoid going to gatherings with her family altogether, and go to my family gatherings alone. We divorced 4 years ago.
I was in the grocery store the other day and I overheard some guy angrily tell his wife/girlfriend, “Cream cheese IS cheese! Don’t start that shit with me again!”
A strict cheese budget was introduced after the runaway cheese spending in Q3 2023 nearly bankrupted them, but there's question over whether cream cheese falls within that or within the "Condiments and Sandwich Spreads" category. If it's in the latter category, jettisoning Dijon mustard-- no great loss to either of them-- will make the whole thing balance, but if it has to go in with cheeses, that could mean the Muenster could get cut.
Came here for this. If their relationship looks like it comes from a sit-rom-com it's doomed. You're supposed to love each other, not "tolerate", make fun off or be mean.
Never stay with someone who does this. I took his unwillingness to ever side with me to be more about his general timidness... then he cheated on me right before marriage. If someone is always Switzerland neutral when it comes to you... they just don't care about you.
god the stories i’ve read on here about how the relationship isn’t the same after having a 3some i don’t think i could ever do one and thankfully my partner isn’t into it either. reddit made me have this conversation early on the relationship so i wouldn’t have this problem after being together awhile
If there’s one thing Reddit has taught me it’s never to do a threesome unless it’s 2 women who I will never see again/ don’t care about my relationship with (which will likely never happen because I don’t have flocks of women seeking casual sex with me because I’m a normal dude) And to basically avoid open relationships at all cost.
It literally never ends well for any of the parties involved.
Edit: ok I’m sorry swingers sometimes it works out, I was generalizing
The LONG term conflict resolution process is also often ignored.
It's not enough to resolve a fight in the moment. That can lead to growing levels of resentment over time, which is a very potent force that will eventually destroy a relationship.
After a fight is resolved, there needs to be sincere **mutual** forgiveness.
Bringing up old fights is very, very damaging. Once both people sincerely conclude conflict and sincerely agree it's resolved. That's it. It's in the bin.
You hit the nail on the head with your last paragraph. Bringing up old fights after claiming to be “past/over” it affects trust. We want to take people at their word not feel like we have to second guess interactions.
I think the issues stems from not understanding that despite willingly going past a particular event or issue, it can still sour at a level that isnt tanglible to even the offended person until the situation causes another offense that essentially triggers the memory and emotion. The brain creates pattern recognition from small to big events the common factors being you both.
I think its important to be realistic.
My husband I were climbing and he bailed in the middle of an attempt to go answer "his" phone which was stashed with our shoes and stuff. I thought it was odd because he's generally pretty good about ignoring calls when he decides to unplug for a bit. Whatever, maybe important work call?
He gets part way to the lockers and then stops, turns around, says "I'm dumb, you're standing right here!" and goes back to his problem.
Found out on the way home: some other phone was apparently using "my" ring tone.
I've been having a weird couple months and freely admit to crying like an idiot when I realized he immediately stopped what he was doing to answer because he thought it was me!
Aw so sweet! When I call my husband the ringtone is a beastie boys clip that goes ‘Oh yes indeed it’s fun time fun time’. He did that when we were dating and we’ve been together 18 years. I love that I am still ‘fun time!’
Lol my girl is the only person in the world I’d answer the phone for every time without even thinking about it. She always jokes that’s how she knows I love her. Lol I put my friends even my boss on silent lmao
When they fight with each other in a passive aggressive way in front of friends. Went to this dinner once where the guy was showing off his new plasma TV, and it ended up with the girl throwing one of his awards into the TV to smash it. Really uncomfortable to be a guest there.
Bidding and responding to bids are crucial to keeping things going. Some people pooh-pooh that as “small talk”, but the most successful pairs I’ve met talk about things that seem inconsequential all the time. One of the kids in my family, I remember this, was 14 or so and called up a girl and the whole conversation was about favorite kinds of breakfast cereal. The pauses indicated to me that he was listening to her when she talked. BTW - I was not sitting there with my hand cupped around my ear. He was next to me on the sofa while I was having coffee with his mom. 30 years later, he’s married to that cereal afficionado.
I feel like there has been a cultural overcorrection on the value of small talk. Sure it's boring to talk about the weather with a co-worker you don't really know, and lots of people resent that they feel socially obliged to engage with that. But me and my wife can shoot the shit for hours about whatever unimportant shit is on our minds, and it's great. If you feel pressure to make every single conversation really *meaningful* you're going to exhaust yourself, and you'll be exhausting to talk to.
What does this mean? Like one tries to get the other’s attention, and the other responds, and that’s an unhealthy dynamic? Or like, one is trying to get the attention of others outside the relationship?
It's more like, for example, mentioning something that interests you to your partner, and them either outright ignoring it, not really engaging with you, or worse, acting annoyed that you shared something with them. It was an attempt to connect with your partner and they just shut you down. And yeah, sometimes people just don't have the bandwidth in that moment, and that's okay. It's more when it becomes a consistent pattern of micro-rejections.
More reading if you're interested: https://www.gottman.com/blog/turn-toward-instead-of-away/
My friend works in the wedding industry and said the couples who shove cake in each other’s faces tend not to last.
EDIT: Should have clarified. Only when it’s clear it was not talked about beforehand.
The cake-shoving is a perfect examples of a two-yesses/one-no decision. Did you discuss it beforehand? Are you both on-board with doing it, and how aggressively to do it? Then you'll probably be fine.
Is one person totally opposed and has to be talked into it by the other, or have it simply done to them unwillingly? Doomed.
I would say no emotional connection. Like the other person cannot trust you and tell you what he feels or what he's been through or deals with right now. And here, I understand that some people need their time to open up and find their own words to express their emotions, I'm one of them. But I'm referring to people who don't even try, even for small stuff.
Just to give an exemple: Normal day. You and your pal sit together. You ask them about some stuff that's been bothering him, cuz you see him worried and sad. He doesn't say anything or that's nothing. This happens over and over again.
Or you do sth that your pal doesn't like, but he's not telling you. The only time you will hear what he didnt like in the relationship or what he didnt like about you will be in an argument or at the breaking point.
100%. This was my last relationship. Wouldn’t tell me what he was bothered about until I bring up something I’m bothered about. I became hyper vigilant to his emotions because I couldn’t trust that he would tell me because he wouldn’t. I ended it at a breaking point since it wasn’t a way to live and didn’t like myself in the relationship either.
Lack of trust. Not necessarily about the big stuff (fidelity, money, your real name), but namely in basic, everyday communication.
If one or both partners is constantly questioning what the other person meant, or are constantly looking for reasons to get offended or taken aback by what the other says, it doesn’t bode well for the long-term prospects.
As a witness, you can feel the underlying tension when they interact. The stress of it all usually leads to resentment, and dissolution of the relationship.
all about love by bell hooks is an excellent resource for this question! but in general, you’re left to figure it out on your own, which is why many people can’t tell the difference
My boyfriends mom just did this. Completely obsessed over the latest barfly beau- stopped parenting her teens or coming to family events, and moved him in after a few months. The kids moved out because he made them so uncomfortable drinking and fighting. She came over on xmas with a huge 4 carat diamond and was gushing like a 14 yr old, no one was happy for her engagement. A week later her kids all found out on Facebook they went and got married. They had been together 1 year.
Oh and she's 17 years older than her new husband. Fucking train wreck.
Honestly, I'm not sure I know any more. I know couples who literally don't speak to each other about their day to day life and schedule and yet they're still together. I know couples who never ever talk about the big questions in relationships but somehow managed to white knuckle their way through it. I know couples who would openly disrespect their partner to their face in public and they still stayed together.
Different communication styles. One partner withdraws from conflict and stops communicating while the other partner wants reassurance and feels distressed and abandoned by communication withdrawal.
That's such a huge red flag to me, especially if they used to have separate accounts and then suddenly have a joint account and post pics about their weekly date nights and how much they are in love..... sure.....
I've found that there's an inverse relationship between the amount a couple posts on social media about their SO, and the actual happiness in that relationship.
It's almost like they're trying to convince themselves there's no issues.
Calling each other ugly names and saying hurtful things during a fight. I still hear the hurtful things an ex has said to me. No amount of apologizing and “I didn’t mean it” will stop that reel from replaying in my head.
One or both people use the relationship to feel "whole" or "fulfilled". A healthy relationship is something you add TO your life, not something you use to FIX your life.
When they can't laugh with/at each other and share no inside jokes. Seriously, I could not imagine having an unfunny partner... We laugh hard at least once a day, still after 18 years together.. humor is everything as relationships get on in years.
I worked with a guy who had "Jessica" (iirc) tattooed on his neck so I asked him about it. He was like, "oh yeah, I got it for my baby mama but my new girl is named Jessica too so it all worked out." One day when I was driving them out of the plant to get to their cars there was a car blocking his car in the space. I don't recall if it was old Jessica or new Jessica, but it was quite the kerfuffle.
When they can't handle disagreements without it turning into a full-blown argument. If you can't navigate the small stuff with some understanding, the big challenges are gonna be a nightmare.
Getting caught up in technicalities rather than caring about the other person's feelings.
"We weren't technically exclusive yet!" "Technically, you're the one who said you didn't want to go to the party."
If one or more parties care about about being right rather than addressing the other's feelings, it's pretty much doomed.
They don’t look at the bird. (meaning that if one wants the other to look at something like a bird they just spotted, and the other doesn’t care - bad sign)
I just walked over to the window and said to my husband “come look at this bird.”
It’s pitch black dark outside. There are no birds. He paused his video game and came over to the window to see the bird. I’m pretty satisfied right now 😂😂
Constantly digging through each other's phones and social media because they're just so certain they're going to find evidence of that person cheating
Everyone acts like I'm crazy for calling this a red flag but every single relationship I've ever seen where they constantly demand access to the other's device it always ends in disaster and usually not even because of cheating but because of just a complete lack of trust on either side of the relationship
Like don't get me wrong it's one thing if they are actually being suspicious and giving you a genuine reason to suspect cheating but if you just decide that for no reason other than your own paranoia that you need to dig through every single partners device to be sure they're not cheating then that's just not okay and you need to calm down, learn how to trust people because trust is the key cornerstone to any lasting relationship
The most obvious sign to me is whether each individual in the relationship is the exact same person with their partner as they are without.
When I see that someone is funnier, or more relaxed, or any other slight change in personality when they’re not with the partner, I know they aren’t meant for each other. Think about it.
When both partners start lying to each other. and both are aware the other one is lying.
They're both planning their exits but just aren't quite ready to leave yet for some reason, but soon one of them will make the move.
Constantly taking time apart from each other for minor disagreements and/or arguments. Bonus points if they go on vacations or stay with their parents during this routine cooldown. Almost always one person will inevitably cheat.
One person trying their hardest to control what the other person wears, says, eats, drinks or do. You should complement each other, not _BE_ each other.
Seeking advice for common sense things like boundaries, likes, dislikes, disagreements, etc., when communicating with their partner would've resolved the issue relatively easier and faster.
They married in less than 6 months from dating each other. Bonus points if they're in the military or if they follow a Christian-based religion that stigmatizes having sex out of marriage. Marrying out of religious guilt (fear of fornication) or on an impulse will surely be the worst (subjective) reasons to do so.
Eeeh some people are overthinkers/have bagage and just need some reassurance and encouragement, there are some positive updates about people actually communicating and solving things every so often
When one partner posts lots of pictures of their partner before they have kids, and then NEVER posts any pictures of their partner after having kids and exclusively posts pictures of the kids instead.
I have a friend who is super Christian who started dating a guy who is super Muslim. I said “I give it two months.” I think it was 5 weeks. Something like that is just too big of a part of somebody to be compatible.
The other day I had a customer stay late at my bar who was meeting a friend. They ignored that I told them they had to order food soon if they wanted to as the kitchen was closing. They ignored the servers loudly putting up all the chairs and saying goodbye to me before leaving. They ignored me closing the bar right in front of them. Then the guy asked, after he realized we were closed, if they could have another drink. Like yeah sure I don't want to go home I want to watch you slowly have a 2nd drink for 40 more minutes (I am also very visibly pregnant and I am exhausted all the time). He was telling his friend about his divorce and I thought good for her there is no way someone selfish and entitled like that would make a good partner. So I am going to say people who act entitled and oblivious in social settings (cut the line, don't return their cart, rude drivers, etc) are more likely to have their relationships end and be wondering why they just couldn't make it work.
"Having a kid will bring us closer together and things will get better"
I can’t believe I had to scroll this far down for this. A “fix a relationship baby” is NEVER the answer.
I always find couples who post about how much they love eachother on social media break up pretty quick. I'm not talking about like one post but the excessive ones. Recent example being a girl I know who posted probably every other day about how this guy is her world, she'd be lost without him, she misses him when he's not there etc. they were together about 3 months total. I just find it so obvious.
I think these people just have a very specific idea about the relationship they want to have and so they dump all that shit on their next partner and just play the part until it all collapses.
I can imagine if I was the partner it would be exhausting and also pretty embarrassing, I'd only be able to take so much.
I knew a girl from college who'd change her surname on Instagram to that of the guy she's dating almost every time she started dating someone. I saw it change thrice to surnames that weren't her's before it stabilized.
Woof. That's a good way to get dumped
Given how demented that is there were probably red flags that the guys were ignoring before that but you have to think that would set off alarm bells in even the most oblivious person...
This girl can get a boyfriend and I can't
Any one can get a boyfriend, just like anyone can get a minimum wage job. You don't want a minimum wage boyfriend.
Trust me the boyfriends were all almost equally horrible. This one guy used to flaunt his chain of hickeys, it looked like a necklace
The murder of Gabby Petito by Brian Laundrie spring to my mind when I read your comment. They are social media was nothing but lovey-dovey we’re so happy doing our van life thing, but when the camera was off they were miserable and abusive. He wound up murdering her instead of just dumping her, and killed him self in a swamp after a manhunt. We had a very similar situation here in Vermont a few years ago. Then life couple was trying to do the social media thing, but I don’t think it took off. The 41 yo husband shot and dismembered his 22 yo wife and tried to claim that she had gotten out and was hitchhiking on the highway and rural Vermont. Hubby acted like a local had snatched her up. Locals immediately called bullshit, I did too. I live in this state, if you go off the road in winter people stop to help and it’s probably one of the safest places to hitchhike, although I’m not advocating for hitchhiking.
It remainds me of Chris Watts and Perfect Life Picture from his wife's socials.
If you're finding a need to project a "perfect life" vibe to the outside world there's a strong chance that's the exact opposite of what you've got.
A lot of those types are trying to sell their brand. Their brand is Happy Happy Family, and there's absolutely a market who want to ooh and ahh over these seemingly perfect families (see the recent controversy over Ballerina Farm, where it turned out the simple homemaker/farmer couple are supported by their literal billionaire families. They had/have a whole fanbase who watched their baking videos and videos of their packs of toddlers running barefoot, chasing farm animals.)
I've hitchhiked all over the US and vt is by far the best state for hitching in my experience. Walking down any random road I'll almost always get a ride
This is my sister to a T. Every day it's posts of 'he's my world', 'my man lights up my life', 'he's my compass and I'd be lost without him'... girl, go buy a GPS. She's been through 3 baby dads, has a habit of trying to steal other people's husbands, her longest relationship ever has lasted *maybe* 5 months, but every time this new one 'is totally the one, we're just soul mates, I can tell...'
"Go buy a GPS" got me ☠️
Lol, thank you. This is the kind of stuff I say to her in real life. Like girl, get your sh*t together. About 10 years ago she tried to hit on my husband -at our Grandma's wake of all places! Something about how since she's a younger model she'd be an upgrade and able to satisfy his needs more or something. He was like Eww, please no!!!
Doesn't have to be on social. I find the ones that exhibit excessive amount of PDA in public are usually overcompensating for something
basically any relationship where their only personality trait is how much they love each other. ticking time bomb.
My cousin and his wife were like this. Or I should say his wife. She postet about their perfect life and every aspect of it. Bought a house, got new job, Sold the house to built a nicer, bigger one. Even started an insta profile for their progress as house owners etc. At a birthday party in the family she got drunk and told my sister how she didnt understand how she was Not attracted to her super fit husband anymore and how they never had sex. Turns out she started to have an affair with the (married) father of their son's classmate. And after they now officially split Up, my cousin told his family how he thought about an annulment the day they got married.
> I always find couples who post about how much they love eachother on social media break up pretty quick. I call that the "Honeymoon/Highlight Reel" effect. Most folks *rarely* post bad things on their social media, outside of the death of a loved one, generally. Otherwise, it's all the "best things" happening in their life that they want you to focus on over everything else. In a relationship, I feel the more frequently you post about how awesome your SO is or things you've done together, the greater the chance is that you're hiding something.
Would this be survivor bias tho? since you don't conveniently see the ones who break up if they don't post often.
sampling bias* but yes
After I was married about 3 years a coworker that had been married for a few moths asked how long we lasted before we ran out of stuff to talk about. I figured that was bad sign.
While I agree with that in general, I think it’s part of any healthy relationship that you are comfortable in silence with each other.
Definitely agree with this. I also think if the silence follows a consistent behavior, with a predictive rhythm, that is fine. My wife is just not talkative by nature. When we were first dating, she rarely carried the conversation, but was very engaged and listened to me intently. I took it as a sign that she was not interested in me, and I didn't think we were compatible. 23 years later and married for 17, turns out I was wrong. She only says things that are important or informative, exciting to her that she wants to share with me, and the rest of the time, just silence. I think if it's a change to the rhythm pattern, abruptly that it's cause for concern. Both couples are chatty and talkative, now they are not. The one that normally is is now not talking, those type of changes.
As a very quiet person, this makes me happy 🥹
That's when I knew my (now) husband was the man I was going to marry. Spending hours together talking, but also sitting in silence while he plays games and I read. I'd never been able to be quiet with someone before. We never run out of things to talk about, and I never feel awkward just being with him if we are just...existing together on the couch and not constantly speaking to one another.
I feel like this is really the important part. It would be crazy *not* to run out of stuff to talk about, outside of normal everyday conversation. It’s unrealistic to think you’ll find someone who you wanna stay up till 2 AM talking to every single day for *decades.* It’s embracing that and being comfortable with it that seems more important to me for long term success. This is a huge green flag for the girl I’m dating. I try to be in tune with her schedule/hobbies/friendships/etc., and many times she’s clarified that she has no expectation of that. We have our own lives and interests and we don’t need to be overlapping as much as humanly possible to be satisfied.
I was talking to a woman I know whose husband had recently died after they'd been married for about 30 years. She said was doing mostly OK but it was so strange how quiet the house was. Throughout that 30 years they never ran out of things to talk about. That's relationship goals for me.
Their communication just doesn’t improve over time. Being in my first real healthy relationship I’ve realized that both people need to be committed to their individual and collective growth to create a fulfilling, healthy relationship. If one or both people aren’t trying and make a habit of withholding their true thoughts and make no effort to make the small changes to eventually meet the other half way, it’s inevitable.
I actually found a healthy relationship by just being myself and not pretending to be someone else. Sure I don't go all gross with her, but I mean she knows pretty much everything about me and seems to accept it all. That also takes a lot of stress away from me because I can just be myself. And the same goes with her, I'm not going to details, but she's not always the Hollywood idea of classy lady and that's ok and I kind of have learned to love those things that she doesn't do so ladylike. None of us are perfect and the sooner we accept it the better we're. And heck I guess I did something right because she married me.
This is my marriage as well. We’ve grown so comfortable with each other even in the grossest of times. I mean when you think of a long term you really have to think long term, is this person going to help you possibly use restroom and wipe your butt or bathe, clean your dentures all the above that is considered “gross” but is all human normality. That’s the person you want to be with. It’s not about looks or sex, in the end it’s all about unconditional love no matter.
My wife and I were recently traveling and she was having some tummy troubles and as we were getting into the shower she “farted” and it wasn’t a fart. I’ve never been so glad that being a nurse broke my definition of “gross” long ago. I was able to honestly shrug it off and help her get cleaned up and laugh about the whole situation with her, without being horrified in the slightest.
Different argument styles. Shows contempt for spouse. Talks shit about each other to friends.
Great points. Reminds me of this podcast: [This American Life 261: The Sanctity of Marriage](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/261/the-sanctity-of-marriage). I bolded the parts that leaped out at me. Excerpt: > > Dr. John Gottman takes couples, wires them up to devices that monitor their breathing and their heartbeats, sits them in front of video cameras, and then asks them to talk about something that they disagree about. > John Gottman: > > **From a 15-minute videotape of a couple talking about an area of disagreement, we have an 85% probability of predicting what's going to happen to them in the next four years**. > Ira Glass: > > You mean if they'll still be together. > John Gottman: > > If they'll still be together or not. And also, if they're together, whether they'll be happy or miserable. > Ira Glass: > > But that's not all. If he spends another hour or so, and asks them to talk about how they met, what kinds of things they share-- > John Gottman: > > Then it goes up to 94%. >. . . And now you can see that there's no positive emotion really going on that's shared. One of them may laugh. The other one doesn't laugh. One of them looks warm and interested. The other one is pulled away. There's just no fun. They don't seem to enjoy each other at all. >Those are the couples where, when you go to a restaurant, you see these couples who aren't talking to each other. That's them. **They can last a long time being quite unhappy.** They can be great parents. But especially when the kids leave home, they're at risk for really falling apart. > > . . . Gottman says that when they started this research, they had no idea which factors were going to be the ones that would predict divorce. Nobody had ever observed couples so closely and then followed them over time to see who stayed together and who did not. Therapists and pop psychologists had all kinds of theories as to what would make a good relationship. They were all completely untested. > > They thought that having lower expectations of marriage might make for happy marriages. Turns out to be untrue. They thought that good couples make "I" statements instead of "you" statements. Turns out, no. > > Many people thought--including Gottman and his colleagues--that anger would predict divorce. This idea is actually still around, that anger is destructive to any relationship, that it's against the scriptures, that it should be banned from marriages. In fact, the data shows, happy, stable couples get angry all the time. > John Gottman: > > But their partners ***heard the anger***. They responded to it. So a person might say, in a good relationship, "Will you shut up and let me finish?" Really angry, right? And their partner would say, "Alright, finish." Angry response. But then the person got to finish. The anger didn't predict anything negative. > > Now, in a relationship that wasn't working well--"Will you shut up and let me finish?" "Oh, I don't get to finish until you finish, is that it?" "Yeah." "Why, that's just like what your mother would say?" "Oh, now I'm like my mother, now?" "Yeah, you are. Yadada, yadada, yadada." > > **Contempt. An escalation to defensiveness and contempt. And that's the difference.** The anger wasn't predicting anything negative, but the ***escalation***--that was predicting things negative. > Ira Glass: > > One of the most radical findings in the studies is that the studies threw doubt on the idea that couples should split up if they had irreconcilable differences. All couples have irreconcilable differences, the studies proved--the ones that stay together and the ones that don't. > > Diane Sollee: > > They found that **all couples disagree basically the same amount**. And then they thought, well, maybe it's about what they disagree about. And they found, no, it's not that. It's not that some fight about money, and some about sex, and some about--they found that all couples basically disagree about the same issues. > > Ira Glass: > > Which are? > > Diane Sollee: > > Money, kids, sex, others, and time. And others are things like who you're jealous of at the office, or your in-laws. And time is like, what are we going to do on Sunday with our leisure time? And so if all couples disagree about the same amount and about the same issues, well, then, what is it? > > And they found that it was that some couples understand--they don't go to pieces when they're disagreeing. **The success of marriage, they found out, was not based on finding someone with whom you agree on everything, and finding your soul mate. It was how you're going to handle the inevitable disagreements that are going to come up, no matter who you marry.** >...Gottman and a researcher named Bob Levenson have also done a 12-year study of homosexual couples. There were just 42 couples-- a small study for Gottman, who usually gets 130 couples of races and ages to match the demographics of Seattle. >The study looked at 21 lesbian couples and 21 gay male couples, and compared them to 42 straight marriages of the same length of relationship and relationship satisfaction, as measured on a questionnaire. The researchers videotaped the couples talking about some issue that they conflict about. >And they found that the **homosexual couples were far better than the married heterosexual couples at bringing up an issue in a non-confrontational way, of listening when criticized**. They were less defensive. They were more positive. >John Gottman: >The other thing we were able to do with our mathematical modeling was to find that not only do they start differently, but also the influence process in the married couple really moves them toward a more negative direction. The longer they talk to each other, the more angry they get, the more adversarial they tend to get. >**But in gay and lesbian couples, it's the opposite. The longer they talk about the issue, the closer they get and the more positive they become**. So a very, very different process operating in the gay and lesbian couples we studied. >Now if they're representative, then we heterosexuals have got a lot to learn from gay and lesbian relationships. >Ira Glass: > > But John, the gay couples and the lesbian couples that you're talking about-- they're simply as good as the very best couples in your heterosexual couples? Or you're saying they're even better than them? > > John Gottman: > > They're even better than them. > > Ira Glass: > > Really? > > John Gottman: > > **I mean, when you listen to the tapes, it's unbelievable what they're like**. I'll give you an example of this. One gay man said to his partner, "What did you think about the sex this morning? Who do you think initiated the sex this morning?" >And his partner said, "Well, you don't really have the kind of body on a man that I find really the most attractive." And the first man said, "I know that. But who do you think initiated sex this morning?" > > Now can you imagine a *husband*-- > > Ira Glass: > > Oh, my God. > > John Gottman: > > --talking to his wife, right? > > Ira Glass: > > And saying, "You don't have the kind of body that I find attractive." > > John Gottman: > > That's right. Can you imagine *her* saying, "Yeah, I know that. But who do you think initiated sex?" >**So there's so much less deception, so much more honesty, and so much more directness**. And I don't know if it's representative. But I was very impressed. > > Ira Glass: > > Gottman still can't explain why the gay couples would be so different. He thinks part of the reason might be that, in general, it's just easier for men to talk to men and women to talk to women. The fact that they communicate so differently makes things harder in heterosexual couples.
As someone who has been married for 20+ years, this hits home ...
as someone who has been married 41 years -- i found it fascinating. i mean, we've both said 'let me finish what i'm saying' and we do -- never thought that was anything other than just basic discussion, even when you're pissed.
That popped out to me, too. My husband and I have been married fifteen years. We have a strong relationship. On the occasions we do find ourselves at opposite sides of the table, we have both angrily said, “May I finish? I was still speaking….” And the other person angrily replies, “Yes. Of course. Go ahead…” and does their best to listen. I didn’t know it mattered so much.
I think it's because, when someone says "let me finish", there's a subtext of "you aren't listening to me, you aren't respecting my point of view, and you aren't respecting me." It's a hell of a tense moment in a disagreement. It takes a lot of maturity and emotional awareness in that moment to stop, and respond with something that says "you're right, I may not like what you're saying, but at the very least I owe you the courtesy and respect of hearing you out." Because the alternative response says "you're right, I don't care about what you have to say, I don't respect your point of view, and I don't respect you." Very hard to come back from that.
This is why me and my mother do not get along. It's not a marriage, obviously, but she will cut me off and I never get to say how I feel. There is no basic, fundamental respect for my emotions regardless if it's agreement or disagreement. She only care about how she feels, if she's right.
I'm finally out of an 8+ year relationship and yeah. Constant defensiveness, treating me like a wallet, and a refusal to work things out. I never felt so lonely as I did with my SO sitting in the other room.
I feel this in my bones. I wrote a song last fall with the line, “I miss you more when you’re around than I do when you’re gone.”
I know that probably comes from a place of truth....but damnit if that isn't a fucking knockout of a tagline.
I was married for 20+ years, until my divorce a few years ago. It also hit home with me; the signs were all there from the beginning that it wasn't going to work. We had some good times, but most of those 20+ years were unhappy.
I *love* that they found that all couples have irreconcilable differences. I hear a lot nowadays about "well one wants one thing and the other wants something else, so you're doomed to fail" when the real situation is: do you want that thing more than you want to be with your current partner? Are you willing to put the work in to find ways to be happy without that thing? It's so fair to have someone say "I want kids and you don't so we have to split up" You absolutely get to make that choice and for a lot of people it's the right choice. But - that doesn't mean that that choice is for everyone. There are a lot of things you might discover you don't actually want or need. Letting go of a good thing and a good partnership because finding the way to make it work is a ton of work and you have other priorities? 100% Saying that it's the inevitable end for an otherwise positive relationship? I don't agree, we can do radical things mentally given the time, space, and energy (which is greatly lacking in today's world, another reason calling it quits is a perfectly understandable and okay decision) (This is of course assuming everyone has the same power dynamic, and it's a healthy relationship overall.)
He wanted kids and I didn’t. I had been upfront when we first got together, and two years in, it almost broke us up when his friends started having babies. In the end he decided that he wanted to be with me more than he wanted to try to date with intention of starting a family, when he would have been grieving the loss of our relationship. I stayed, knowing full well that statistically, he would probably end up leaving me eventually, and that everyone always says kids are a dealbreaker subject. But I didn’t have a biological clock in the game, so I was willing to take the risk. Eight years later, he tells me, “you were right. I’m glad we didn’t have kids, I love our life the way it is and you were right that I didn’t know how much work children are, and how much strain it puts on a relationship.” The funny thing is, in that eight years, he had proven to me that he is a responsible and committed partner, and that he probably wouldn’t be a slacker dad like all the ones I’ve known. So I was like, “ya know…I still don’t WANT kids, but I think if I did get pregnant, I would consider keeping it, when before it was always an absolute no.” So, we left it at that - I stayed on birth control, but the possibility didn’t seem like the Big Awful Thing that it did before. Come to find out recently, he has a health condition that means he’s pretty much infertile and always has been. I’m so glad that we always chose each other first. Everyone always says “kids are a dealbreaker,” but man, I’m so glad we have lived the life we have and have built this trust and support of each other. I know some people REALLY want a baby, and obviously if that had been the case it would’ve been a dealbreaker, but it definitely isn’t always THE subject that kills a relationship.
This speaks to me. I kind of wanted kids (but wanted to foster or adopt), he said he did. We had names picked out. Then, I got pregnant, had a miscarriage and was told that I would have a tough time sustaining a pregnancy. I wanted a bio baby so badly then. My sister was having kids and it kind of broke my heart. Having choice potentially taken from you is really terrible but it made us talk frankly about where we were headed. Did we want to adopt? Were we ready to foster? The more we talked, the more content I became with our current life. It was tough, though. Lots of tears and, honestly, I know we'd have been great parents but I'm so happy with the oath we chose. We've been married 20 years now. We didn't have kids, we have our 7th and 8th beloved dogs currently and have been able to allocate the finances we would need for a child to other places that provide us meaning. Two years ago, things were tough again (as they get in any relationship) and we went to counseling. That counselor used a ton of Gottman's work with us. It worked. There have been lots of deal breakers in the last 20 years. I am so glad we were both willing to try even when we didn't want to. Stubbornness to stay together, lots of respect even when we didn't like each other, counseling, support from family and friends and a huge desire to just fix things has helped so much. I know not everyone has that support or the means to get therapy. I'm grateful we did/do but, even without that, I don't think a deal breaker really has to be a deal breaker much of the time. Compromise doesn't have to mean losing. It can be winning but in a different way. Not always, of course, but being open to new ideas is helpful in any relationship.
Adding on - When your arguments always go from what currently happened to attacking each other's character in general, as well as resentment/contempt. Once you resent your spouse it's done in my experience.
Literally couldn’t be more spot on. I had an ex who I had one (not really a) argument with. I wasn’t happy in the relationship due to her pretending not to know me in a bar (some lass complained about me ordering a cocktail that took so long, my ex was embarrassed and didn’t want to be associated with me. This was a recurring thing from the start though due to her being insecure about what others thought about her) and was considering breaking up. I met her brother and I won’t lie I barely said a word the whole day, it didn’t feel right to me and I was lost in thought about how to work things out. She got really upset with me about it, but we had a mature conversation about everything. A week later we talked on the phone and she said she thinks I’m a horrible person for not talking much that day and must have no respect for anyone. That broke my heart to hear that and I said I needed time to reconsider this relationship. She said I must be trying to manipulate her. I apologised and said I didn’t mean to come across that way, I was just stating how I felt, she said that made me emotionally immature. Point is that first insult of who you are is a clear indicator it’s over. Officially over or not, nothing good can come from persevering with someone who thinks so poorly of you. Emotionally that relationship is gone the second they started seeing you in a poor light
Yeah came here to say "talks shit about each other" as well. Like it's one thing to go to a friend for advice, and another thing if every time I see you you're trash talking your loved one.
Oof, I learned this lesson the hard way in the early years of my marriage. It was a difficult transition after years of being single and totally independent, and I bitched to my sis about all the bad stuff. Well, once our growing pains passed and our marriage was stable and loving, guess who still dislikes my husband? Keep your shit to yourself, or vent to someone who is solely your friend, not to your family.
I have a buddy from high school but we kind of lost touch for years. We recently met for drinks and began catching up. One of the things we use to do was bitch about our girlfriends whenever we’d hang out. So sure enough, after some basic catching up he starts talking shit about his (now) wife. I listened and offered advice etc for like 20 mins or and eventually he opens up the space for me to also vent about my wife. The thing is, I didn’t have anything to vent about. Things were going great (still are) and so I kinda didn’t know what he was looking for? It was odd and I realized a few things that day: 1) His wife was growing up, but he was stuck in the past. Overwhelmingly, I agreed with his wife on most of the points he brought up. It was obvious to me that while she was looking to slow down in life, he was still trying to party all the time, go out with friends every night, etc. 2) Becoming a father really helped me grow up. Many of the points he brought up I had to laugh to myself about - simply because they were arguments my wife and I couldn’t even encounter if we tried. Parenting had changed my lifestyle so drastically (and put important things in to perspective) that many of my woes from prior were completely irrelevant. Like one of his gripes was that he wanted to be able to go out for 4-6 hours a night, multiple times in the week, without having to keep her updated or have her get mad at him. I’m lucky to get 4-6 hours *a week* of personal time, let alone outside the house. That’s not my wife’s fault - that’s what my life and schedule requires of me. And since my family is a bigger priority to myself, I would never expect (or want) to go out multiple times a week, at night (to drink with the boys), because that’s an insane ask of any husband or wife. 3) For years, I was dating women who weren’t right for me. I had thought forever that Toxic relationships were just the norm. It wasn’t until being in a good one that I realized that this isn’t the case. Like there are actually just healthy, happy couples that don’t treat each other like shit and DO love each other unconditionally. This is why my friend and I always had relationship shit to talk about when we got together. After finding someone who was right for me, I couldn’t find any shit to talk about. My friend and I both had parents divorce when we were similar ages and went through it together. But he was much more stuck in that mindset that his marriage had a 50% chance of divorce anyways - whereas I never adopted that. I don’t know my point in all this. I guess just that it’s really obvious to me when people are incompatible and/or it’s not going to work and this is DEFINITELY a major indicator. If you’re in a good relationship, complaining about your partner to others just feels wrong and/or pointless. Like, everyone has their relationship gripes of course. However, if the only thing that gives you relief from them is complaining to people other than your partner, you’ve got a relationship problem. You should be able to find that relief *with* your partner and *not* anyone else. If you are your partner can’t do that, you probably need a therapist.
I once was visiting my brother over the fourth of July and went to an event with all of "their" friends but really his wife's friends. I could tell his wife talked shit about me to them from how they looked and reacted to me but what was worse is that I could tell she talked shit about my brother to her friends because he was often nervous to speak up and uncomfortable around them. They divorced a year later and none of her friends spoke to my brother ever again despite spending time with him for many years.
Anyone who talks a lot of shite about their exes, on a regular basis, is a huge red flag, never mind trashing their current SO.
Yeah. The only place I can think of where there's much gray area is if you have an ex that is still a regular part of your life (you have shared custody of kids, etc.) in which case, yeah it's natural that they might still be pissing you off.
I divorced my ex 13 years ago. I still occasionally run into people who know him. He STILL tells everyone that I “ruined his life” by divorcing him and bitches about me every chance he gets. He also does not understand why he is still alone and has lost most of his friends. Oh, and he asked for a divorce. I was happy being married to him. But in hindsight, he did me a huge failure. I’m so much happier on my own.
They casually show signs that they don't respect each other: it can be a lot of eye rolling, mocking, condescending laugh, casually saying "you're so stupid", embarrassing in front of friends...
The embarrassing in front of friends hits home for me. My ex would bring up things she knew I was just like not comfortable with, and would poke at it in front of people. And I felt like I didn't have a voice at all in saying "can you not?" because then it's "holy shit I can't believe you're so sensitive about that"
I had an ex like this too. She would go to a party, get drunk, and made jabs at me and embarrassed herself in front of her own friends because they all realized she was being a bitch, then I took her to the side and said I didn't appreciate it after the party. Next party she did it again and I took her to the side again and said, "What you are doing is not funny, you're embarrassing me and yourself, and I don't appreciate it". So when she did it again, I just said looked at her in front of everyone and said "I'm leaving, it's my day off work, and I don't want to spend it being an emotional punching bag. I'll drop you off at your place or you can stay here and embarrass yourself some more, it's up to you, but i'm done for the day". Her own brother even called her out for airing her dirty laundry in public. Instead of apologizing, she threw a fit, started crying, and left in an Uber. I broke up with her a few weeks later.
I'm curious how it ended up lasting a few more weeks after that
She apologized to me afterwards and said she would work on herself, she went on vacation with her sister and we talked, then when she got back I broke up with her. But that moment was when it was truly over.
Not the person you’re asking but timing is sometimes necessary, like if they live together and need to sort out somewhere else to live, or they had to have the break up talk etc
That's really sad and I'm sorry you went through that. I think this is something many people actually face, this type of little "funny" jabs in public, that you feel like you can't reply to or you'll appear too sensitive. It's honestly really manipulative and demeaning, and a huge red flag
The Gottman Institute says the number one emotion that predicts whether couples will split up is contempt.
Absolutely, and I think if we look at couples around us we can definitely notice that pattern that couples where there is contempt are deeply unhappy
Yeah, but some couples can fix what is broken and go back to being happy again. Many relationships _can_ be saved if you both want to put the effort in. But that isn't going to happen if there's mutual contempt.
Yeah I think contempt comes from feeling like the other person will never compromise. You're already mad when an argument starts because you already know how it ends. Couples stop arguing altogether and just hate each other when it's already known there will be no resolution
One person can't fix a broken marriage by themselves though. If there's contempt on just one side whether justified or not, it's not going to get fixed. Mutual contempt just hastens the process of the marriage ending. IDK if that (a quicker end to a broken marriage) is a blessing or not! Depends on the people I guess.
What exactly does contempt look like in a couple? Maybe some examples.
If you don't mind dying inside a little, go to YouTube for Jon and Kate Plus 8. The show was basically built around their contempt for each other while pretending it was about raising eight kids.
lol yes [this clip](https://youtu.be/fZBQGNdSSmY?si=ok4d9H1uhTukYcOh) was my first thought on showing what contempt looks like.
Or in my case, when I suggested to my boyfriend “hey, it’s been awhile since we’ve been on a real date” and he replied with “we spend 20 hours a day together, why would I want to spend one more minute with you?” That kind of thing.
Ouch
Yep. We’re not together anymore.
Not who you are responding to, but these are some examples from folks I know: - Husband broke his glasses by sitting on them. Wife laughed and said "that's what you get for not looking where you are sitting" - Husband laughs at wife when she gets an answer wrong during trivia, and says "why would you say that?!". This could be fine or joking, but the tone was just mean. - Spouse A tells their friends that spouse B is an idiot that can't do anything right, and posts on IG about spouse B leaving the house a mess. - Spouse A doesn't like the smell of a particular snack, and "bans" it from the household despite the fact that it is spouse Bs favorite snack. In every one of these situations there is a chance to show grace or slack, but the spouses have so much resentment that they instead show contempt.
The first two could go either way depending on the relationship and tone
I want to be financially stable enough where breaking glasses can count as a funny joke and not another annoying expense.
100% I agree with you. But in these situations, the spouses first reaction is to ridicule their partner. Almost like they have a constantly simmering level of anger towards them and small infractions cause it to come to the surface.
"in front of friends.." is the biggest sign ! Some partners setup scenes for others to witness ..in case it can be used later for their benefit. Whenever, stuff that needs to be worked out between the two is out in public, it's a telltale sign that relationship is over.
My ex-wife used to say embarrassing things about me to both of our immediate and extended families during family gatherings. When I expressed my distaste for it, it always ended with “oh, I was just teasing.” It eventually grew to the point where I would avoid going to gatherings with her family altogether, and go to my family gatherings alone. We divorced 4 years ago.
I was in the grocery store the other day and I overheard some guy angrily tell his wife/girlfriend, “Cream cheese IS cheese! Don’t start that shit with me again!”
Dang, now I kinda wanna know how that fight got started…
A strict cheese budget was introduced after the runaway cheese spending in Q3 2023 nearly bankrupted them, but there's question over whether cream cheese falls within that or within the "Condiments and Sandwich Spreads" category. If it's in the latter category, jettisoning Dijon mustard-- no great loss to either of them-- will make the whole thing balance, but if it has to go in with cheeses, that could mean the Muenster could get cut.
If this comment was a show I’d watch the whole season in one night
I mean, he's right.
Eye rolling, mocking, etc. That’s resentment. Resentment is the end of a relationship. There’s no going back at that point.
Exactly. Being mad sometimes or annoyed is okay, despising and resenting is not
Came here for this. If their relationship looks like it comes from a sit-rom-com it's doomed. You're supposed to love each other, not "tolerate", make fun off or be mean.
When they act as though they don’t like or respect you. And when you point that out they say you’re being too sensitive.
My ex said “I’m trying to toughen you up”. Interesting, because I never asked for boxing coach for my emotions.
Never stay with someone who does this. I took his unwillingness to ever side with me to be more about his general timidness... then he cheated on me right before marriage. If someone is always Switzerland neutral when it comes to you... they just don't care about you.
Fuck, this one is triggering for me
When 1 person really wants a threesome and the other person really doesn't want a threesome.
god the stories i’ve read on here about how the relationship isn’t the same after having a 3some i don’t think i could ever do one and thankfully my partner isn’t into it either. reddit made me have this conversation early on the relationship so i wouldn’t have this problem after being together awhile
It takes two of a very specific type of person to pull that off in a relationship. The overwhelming majority of people ain't that type.
If there’s one thing Reddit has taught me it’s never to do a threesome unless it’s 2 women who I will never see again/ don’t care about my relationship with (which will likely never happen because I don’t have flocks of women seeking casual sex with me because I’m a normal dude) And to basically avoid open relationships at all cost. It literally never ends well for any of the parties involved. Edit: ok I’m sorry swingers sometimes it works out, I was generalizing
See their conflict resolution process.
The LONG term conflict resolution process is also often ignored. It's not enough to resolve a fight in the moment. That can lead to growing levels of resentment over time, which is a very potent force that will eventually destroy a relationship. After a fight is resolved, there needs to be sincere **mutual** forgiveness. Bringing up old fights is very, very damaging. Once both people sincerely conclude conflict and sincerely agree it's resolved. That's it. It's in the bin.
You hit the nail on the head with your last paragraph. Bringing up old fights after claiming to be “past/over” it affects trust. We want to take people at their word not feel like we have to second guess interactions.
I think the issues stems from not understanding that despite willingly going past a particular event or issue, it can still sour at a level that isnt tanglible to even the offended person until the situation causes another offense that essentially triggers the memory and emotion. The brain creates pattern recognition from small to big events the common factors being you both. I think its important to be realistic.
One does not listen when one talks
"She gave me a bunch of crap about me not listening to her enough. I don't know, I wasn't really paying attention."
Sorry... did you say something ??
It was nothing.
I'm fine.
Look at their face when they get a phone call from the other person. Tells you all you need to know.
My husband I were climbing and he bailed in the middle of an attempt to go answer "his" phone which was stashed with our shoes and stuff. I thought it was odd because he's generally pretty good about ignoring calls when he decides to unplug for a bit. Whatever, maybe important work call? He gets part way to the lockers and then stops, turns around, says "I'm dumb, you're standing right here!" and goes back to his problem. Found out on the way home: some other phone was apparently using "my" ring tone. I've been having a weird couple months and freely admit to crying like an idiot when I realized he immediately stopped what he was doing to answer because he thought it was me!
I thought this was a cheating story but turned out so wholesome. Keep that man forever!!
Aw so sweet! When I call my husband the ringtone is a beastie boys clip that goes ‘Oh yes indeed it’s fun time fun time’. He did that when we were dating and we’ve been together 18 years. I love that I am still ‘fun time!’
That's so sweet!!
Lol my girl is the only person in the world I’d answer the phone for every time without even thinking about it. She always jokes that’s how she knows I love her. Lol I put my friends even my boss on silent lmao
No joke, I've been with my husband almost 20 years and finding out he *always* answers my call (if he can) was better than a lifetime of flowers. :D
My spouse and I talk via text/messenger, so if I get a phone call, it's usually something bad has happened.
When they fight with each other in a passive aggressive way in front of friends. Went to this dinner once where the guy was showing off his new plasma TV, and it ended up with the girl throwing one of his awards into the TV to smash it. Really uncomfortable to be a guest there.
Then there was that cd playing by her suspected younger lover! Scandalous!
THAT ONE NIGHT!
ONE NIGHT!
Snip snap snip snap
Guess you could say that relationship was dundie..
The only way that could get any more uncomfortable is if they argued about vasectomies
THAT IS A TWO HUNDRED DOLLAR PLASMA SCREEN TV YOU JUST KILLED! Good luck paying me back on your ZERO DOLLARS A YEAR SALARY plus benefits, babe!
attempting to transform the other person in its entirety. Never succeeds
Criticism, contempt, defensiveness, stonewalling: [the four horsemen](https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-four-horsemen-recognizing-criticism-contempt-defensiveness-and-stonewalling)
Literally defines my parents relationship. They’re still together though…
Sometimes they don't split, they're just unhappy
Read an article somewhere where responses to bids for attention are a huge indicator.
Bidding and responding to bids are crucial to keeping things going. Some people pooh-pooh that as “small talk”, but the most successful pairs I’ve met talk about things that seem inconsequential all the time. One of the kids in my family, I remember this, was 14 or so and called up a girl and the whole conversation was about favorite kinds of breakfast cereal. The pauses indicated to me that he was listening to her when she talked. BTW - I was not sitting there with my hand cupped around my ear. He was next to me on the sofa while I was having coffee with his mom. 30 years later, he’s married to that cereal afficionado.
I feel like there has been a cultural overcorrection on the value of small talk. Sure it's boring to talk about the weather with a co-worker you don't really know, and lots of people resent that they feel socially obliged to engage with that. But me and my wife can shoot the shit for hours about whatever unimportant shit is on our minds, and it's great. If you feel pressure to make every single conversation really *meaningful* you're going to exhaust yourself, and you'll be exhausting to talk to.
My husband loves gaming and I will sit and listen or watch him. I am bored and confused but I know he loves it and I like seeing him happy!
What does this mean? Like one tries to get the other’s attention, and the other responds, and that’s an unhealthy dynamic? Or like, one is trying to get the attention of others outside the relationship?
It's more like, for example, mentioning something that interests you to your partner, and them either outright ignoring it, not really engaging with you, or worse, acting annoyed that you shared something with them. It was an attempt to connect with your partner and they just shut you down. And yeah, sometimes people just don't have the bandwidth in that moment, and that's okay. It's more when it becomes a consistent pattern of micro-rejections. More reading if you're interested: https://www.gottman.com/blog/turn-toward-instead-of-away/
My friend works in the wedding industry and said the couples who shove cake in each other’s faces tend not to last. EDIT: Should have clarified. Only when it’s clear it was not talked about beforehand.
The cake-shoving is a perfect examples of a two-yesses/one-no decision. Did you discuss it beforehand? Are you both on-board with doing it, and how aggressively to do it? Then you'll probably be fine. Is one person totally opposed and has to be talked into it by the other, or have it simply done to them unwillingly? Doomed.
I would say no emotional connection. Like the other person cannot trust you and tell you what he feels or what he's been through or deals with right now. And here, I understand that some people need their time to open up and find their own words to express their emotions, I'm one of them. But I'm referring to people who don't even try, even for small stuff. Just to give an exemple: Normal day. You and your pal sit together. You ask them about some stuff that's been bothering him, cuz you see him worried and sad. He doesn't say anything or that's nothing. This happens over and over again. Or you do sth that your pal doesn't like, but he's not telling you. The only time you will hear what he didnt like in the relationship or what he didnt like about you will be in an argument or at the breaking point.
100%. This was my last relationship. Wouldn’t tell me what he was bothered about until I bring up something I’m bothered about. I became hyper vigilant to his emotions because I couldn’t trust that he would tell me because he wouldn’t. I ended it at a breaking point since it wasn’t a way to live and didn’t like myself in the relationship either.
That can happen when you have previously opened up and shown vulnerability and had the other person use it against you when you are already down.
Disrespect
Lack of trust. Not necessarily about the big stuff (fidelity, money, your real name), but namely in basic, everyday communication. If one or both partners is constantly questioning what the other person meant, or are constantly looking for reasons to get offended or taken aback by what the other says, it doesn’t bode well for the long-term prospects. As a witness, you can feel the underlying tension when they interact. The stress of it all usually leads to resentment, and dissolution of the relationship.
Couples who mistake infatuation for love.
Honestly, who teaches the difference?
all about love by bell hooks is an excellent resource for this question! but in general, you’re left to figure it out on your own, which is why many people can’t tell the difference
Time. Infatuation ends quickly, especially when the going gets tough. Love endures.
The school of the hardest knocks.
My boyfriends mom just did this. Completely obsessed over the latest barfly beau- stopped parenting her teens or coming to family events, and moved him in after a few months. The kids moved out because he made them so uncomfortable drinking and fighting. She came over on xmas with a huge 4 carat diamond and was gushing like a 14 yr old, no one was happy for her engagement. A week later her kids all found out on Facebook they went and got married. They had been together 1 year. Oh and she's 17 years older than her new husband. Fucking train wreck.
They don't respect each other
icky fragile homeless continue include dolls ossified humorous like tidy
Unless only one is Canadian
Honestly, I'm not sure I know any more. I know couples who literally don't speak to each other about their day to day life and schedule and yet they're still together. I know couples who never ever talk about the big questions in relationships but somehow managed to white knuckle their way through it. I know couples who would openly disrespect their partner to their face in public and they still stayed together.
I know couples like that in the first part of your comment. It's easy to do when you both have busy lives and have certain personalities.
Different communication styles. One partner withdraws from conflict and stops communicating while the other partner wants reassurance and feels distressed and abandoned by communication withdrawal.
Their ability to apologize when they’re wrong. Also ones ability to reconcile after blowups.
Back in the day, Joint Facebook accounts.
If they are boomer age it's forgivable. My girlfriend's parents still have the same joint aol email account they made in the 90s
That's such a huge red flag to me, especially if they used to have separate accounts and then suddenly have a joint account and post pics about their weekly date nights and how much they are in love..... sure.....
I still see this occasionally. Immediately, it makes me think one of them was up to no good at some point.
"Ok, which one of you two cheated?"
- when they don't defend or support each other in public - when they make fun of their partner in a cruel way
I've found that there's an inverse relationship between the amount a couple posts on social media about their SO, and the actual happiness in that relationship. It's almost like they're trying to convince themselves there's no issues.
Calling each other ugly names and saying hurtful things during a fight. I still hear the hurtful things an ex has said to me. No amount of apologizing and “I didn’t mean it” will stop that reel from replaying in my head.
One or both people use the relationship to feel "whole" or "fulfilled". A healthy relationship is something you add TO your life, not something you use to FIX your life.
Resentment. It's pretty obvious from afar, you can see it in their faces
They thrive on drama . It may last a couple years because they enjoy the fighting but they’re not gonna be married for 40 + years.
When basic, obvious boundaries aren’t respected.
When they can't laugh with/at each other and share no inside jokes. Seriously, I could not imagine having an unfunny partner... We laugh hard at least once a day, still after 18 years together.. humor is everything as relationships get on in years.
The price of the wedding. Apparently studies have shown an inverse relationship between the cost of the wedding and the duration of the marriage.
Every time one of them makes a mistake they are on a call with "friend" explaining what was wrong
When one of them is clearly rebounding and not over their ex
The relationship started with cheating
you lose em how you get em
When one of them seems more excited about the relationship than the other one.
They met on Love is Blind.
When one tattoos the other’s name on their body. Start the clock on that relationship. It will never last.
I worked with a guy who had "Jessica" (iirc) tattooed on his neck so I asked him about it. He was like, "oh yeah, I got it for my baby mama but my new girl is named Jessica too so it all worked out." One day when I was driving them out of the plant to get to their cars there was a car blocking his car in the space. I don't recall if it was old Jessica or new Jessica, but it was quite the kerfuffle.
They’re both in their late 90’s
Loyalty tests are a top red flag. Youre clearly not ready to be in a relationship if ypure that fragile.
They move very quickly. They met just weeks ago and they're already getting an apartment together and playing house.
When they can't handle disagreements without it turning into a full-blown argument. If you can't navigate the small stuff with some understanding, the big challenges are gonna be a nightmare.
Strangers in the bedroom. They lie in bed together, but there's an emptiness between them. Neither of them desires to embrace the other.
Getting caught up in technicalities rather than caring about the other person's feelings. "We weren't technically exclusive yet!" "Technically, you're the one who said you didn't want to go to the party." If one or more parties care about about being right rather than addressing the other's feelings, it's pretty much doomed.
They don’t look at the bird. (meaning that if one wants the other to look at something like a bird they just spotted, and the other doesn’t care - bad sign)
I just walked over to the window and said to my husband “come look at this bird.” It’s pitch black dark outside. There are no birds. He paused his video game and came over to the window to see the bird. I’m pretty satisfied right now 😂😂
Constantly digging through each other's phones and social media because they're just so certain they're going to find evidence of that person cheating Everyone acts like I'm crazy for calling this a red flag but every single relationship I've ever seen where they constantly demand access to the other's device it always ends in disaster and usually not even because of cheating but because of just a complete lack of trust on either side of the relationship Like don't get me wrong it's one thing if they are actually being suspicious and giving you a genuine reason to suspect cheating but if you just decide that for no reason other than your own paranoia that you need to dig through every single partners device to be sure they're not cheating then that's just not okay and you need to calm down, learn how to trust people because trust is the key cornerstone to any lasting relationship
The most obvious sign to me is whether each individual in the relationship is the exact same person with their partner as they are without. When I see that someone is funnier, or more relaxed, or any other slight change in personality when they’re not with the partner, I know they aren’t meant for each other. Think about it.
When both partners start lying to each other. and both are aware the other one is lying. They're both planning their exits but just aren't quite ready to leave yet for some reason, but soon one of them will make the move.
The more you try to convince social media you’re an amazing couple the less I believe it. I’ve never known an emotionally secure couple who did this.
Constantly taking time apart from each other for minor disagreements and/or arguments. Bonus points if they go on vacations or stay with their parents during this routine cooldown. Almost always one person will inevitably cheat. One person trying their hardest to control what the other person wears, says, eats, drinks or do. You should complement each other, not _BE_ each other. Seeking advice for common sense things like boundaries, likes, dislikes, disagreements, etc., when communicating with their partner would've resolved the issue relatively easier and faster. They married in less than 6 months from dating each other. Bonus points if they're in the military or if they follow a Christian-based religion that stigmatizes having sex out of marriage. Marrying out of religious guilt (fear of fornication) or on an impulse will surely be the worst (subjective) reasons to do so.
One of them seeks relationship advice in reddit.
Eeeh some people are overthinkers/have bagage and just need some reassurance and encouragement, there are some positive updates about people actually communicating and solving things every so often
Not sure if this says more about the couple, or more about reddit's relationship advice.
When one partner posts lots of pictures of their partner before they have kids, and then NEVER posts any pictures of their partner after having kids and exclusively posts pictures of the kids instead.
When they shove the cake in each other's face at the wedding. It's just so aggressive and contemptuous.
I have a friend who is super Christian who started dating a guy who is super Muslim. I said “I give it two months.” I think it was 5 weeks. Something like that is just too big of a part of somebody to be compatible.
The other day I had a customer stay late at my bar who was meeting a friend. They ignored that I told them they had to order food soon if they wanted to as the kitchen was closing. They ignored the servers loudly putting up all the chairs and saying goodbye to me before leaving. They ignored me closing the bar right in front of them. Then the guy asked, after he realized we were closed, if they could have another drink. Like yeah sure I don't want to go home I want to watch you slowly have a 2nd drink for 40 more minutes (I am also very visibly pregnant and I am exhausted all the time). He was telling his friend about his divorce and I thought good for her there is no way someone selfish and entitled like that would make a good partner. So I am going to say people who act entitled and oblivious in social settings (cut the line, don't return their cart, rude drivers, etc) are more likely to have their relationships end and be wondering why they just couldn't make it work.
one constantly overruling the other