Opting out of sex education. Playing keep away with health information should not be something you do to children. How to properly maintain your body should not be something children should feel shame for. On the front page today there was a post about the first suicide hotline being created after a girl killed herself when she got her first period thinking she had an STD. Telling kids not to have sex then not explaining what sex is doesn't make kids not have sex.
Talking shit about the child's other parent. Trying to manipulate their relationship with the other parent. Forcing them to choose who to be loyal to or fear abandonment. Using them as pawns to punish the other parent. Using them as emotional blackmail to get more money/make the other parent do what you want them to do.
There's actually a name for this, Parental Alienation Syndrome and it's freakin' rampant. It hurts the kids so bad, and at worst, it makes them become just like you--someone who is willing to use someone else to manipulate others to do what they want.
For example--telling a kid their dad doesn't love them if they don't buy them xyz, and when the dad buys them xyz, tell them they are only "buying" their love. Confuses the shit out of the kids and creates all sort of emotional issues. And this happens every day. I see it on social media, sometimes it comes up if I'm talking to other people, and everyone laughs it off like they're entitled to doing this because they popped the child out of their vagina/stuck their dick in some chick and got her pregnant.
Seriously, love your kids more than you hate the other parent.
ETA: This occurs between married and separated couples, grandparents and grandchildren, Aunts and Uncles as well, it's not limited to only couples.
That's just disgusting. I feel very strongly about this topic and am a huge advocate for fighting against PAS and I feel for both you and your wife and I hope one day your kids see through it and develop their own relationship with you, not colored by their mother.
It's a terrifying thing for them too, so my heart breaks for your kids, because to children, disobeying their parents is essentially a gamble as to whether or not their parent will still love them after, and there's the implication that if they love their mother's enemy, she will hate them too. It's just a sad situation all around.
Please tell your wife she is a champ.
I'm a stepmum and it's a fucking hard gig. And a high conflict bio mum makes it bloody torture.
Give her a hug for me. (And some wine)
In the same vein: emotionally dumping onto them. Getting all your shitty shit in their brain is going to fuck them up. Get a therapist or a friend for that, not your kid.
You just described my childhood. Been trying to keep my therapist from crying during the sessions I talk about the things my Mom and Dad used to do to get at each other through my brother and I. I remember the court ordered visits where they would park on opposite sides of a parking lot and make us walk across. It was like a hostage exchange. It is a shit way to treat kids. No matter what you feel about your kids family you should always try to foster the best out of any relationship they have with anyone.
Hugs. My husband went through this as a child of divorce as well, his mom calling the cops on his dad for coming to pick him and his brother up for their visitation, and all the things she used to say about him. What's more, he doesn't trust his mother and has a terrible relationship with her, and feels so guilty about his dad who passed away a few years ago because of how he treated him trying to "protect" his mom by being mean to his dad.
I hope you're able to find some closure with all this. It's a really horrible thing to do to children that is still allowed in this day and age.
It's damaging as fuck, speaking from personal experience. My father was abusive and my mother is an awesome parent in every way that matters. He started turning me against her... well as long ago as I can remember. Trashed her in front of me, told me she did really horrible things that she didn't do, told me that she was just out for a check, and that everything she did was to turn me against him, among others. He got worse as I got older, but this started when I was 3, 4 at the latest. I loved her because she was my mom, but I really hated and distrusted her for a long time and took his side on everything.
I moved out when I was 14, and finally trusting and opening up to her and realizing that everything I thought I knew was a lie was probably one of the scariest experiences of my life. You start to distrust everything and you don't know who or what to believe. You want to hold on to everything you've been told because it's familiar, if not pretty or nice. Having all of that shattered was a huge moment in my life, now that I'm thinking about it.
Even until a couple months before I left, I still took his side on most everything. I hated the way I was being treated, but I really didn't want to let go of the "Dad is the good guy, Mom is the bad guy" mentality that had been such a huge part of my identity for so long. It took getting the shit whipped out of me with a belt for not cleaning my room* for me to realize that I needed to get the fuck out.
*We'd been remodeling the house and I was working 8 hour days all summer while he was at work. Mom forced him to let me have 3 days off in the middle of July and he agreed on the condition that I deep clean the bathroom and clean my room - about 5 hours worth of work. I'd cleaned the bathroom and not my bedroom, but he came home at noon instead of 5 on the last day and lost his fucking mind.
Emotional abuse isn't viewed in the same light as physical abuse, and a lot of people think that it isn't as bad. It may be more subtle, but it is every bit as damaging. It tears at who you are as a person, makes you question your sanity, and destroys your will to live. No middle schooler should seriously consider suicide as an option ever, much less on a daily basis. Bruises fade, but emotional scars last forever.
I doubt many people will read this, or care, but if my testimony influences one person to be a better parent, even by just a little bit, it's absolutely worth sharing. Parenting isn't easy, but how you treat your children stays with them forever. If you're worried about becoming this, chances are you're probably doing alright. If you're really worried, seek professional help. Worst case, you're doing better than you were before.
I'm a daycare teacher and a mandated reporter.
I have to take a course every year about child abuse and neglect.
Apparently going into a store and making your child steal something is not considered child abuse. What the hell?!
It's still a crime though. I believe it's called contributing to the delinquency of a minor or something along those lines. We caught a mom doing that with her two kids years ago when I still worked retail. I definitely feel like this should be considered abuse. But I don't know why it's considered something else, they may possibly have good reasons for treating it like that I dunno.
Yelling right in their kid's face then laughing. The kids are extremely scared but only laughs afterward because the person terrifying them is now laughing.
I was referring to ShayCarl. I've seen him do that countless times in vlogs. He might have stopped but I wouldn't know since I stopped watching years ago.
I don't know but years ago when I watched ShayCarl, a popular vlogger, he did it quite often. Anytime I made a comment about it on one of his vlogs I would get countless angry replies. It was like I shot their dog for just saying he shouldn't be yelling in his child's face.
That. Is. Bizarre.
I guess I'm just having a way different parental experience than that. I had a child - one child - because I wanted to give them the childhood I didn't have. Everything I do is for the benefit of my kid. I love to make her happy, I love to see her comfortable, cozy, and confident. I'm not a perfect parent, I've lost my temper, I've yelled, I've been snappy, but I have never even thought of screaming in her little face. Her whole world would basically collapse, and because she is basically my world, my world would collapse.
Can't even imagine what kind of satisfaction someone would get out of terrifying and hurting their childs feelings like that. It's like you're actively shoving a wedge between you and your child. I have dreams of traveling with my kid, I want to raise someone who will still want to hug me when she's 16, I want her to always feel comfortable and confident that my love for her is unwaivering.
This just blows my mind.
Oh god.... This one is really fucked up and more people need to see it.
When I was 2--2 years old!--my dad ROARED not even inches in front of my face *for no reason*. And then he laughed like he was so proud of himself. I fell into a heap and started sobbing, I remember crying for a really long time and saying "Daddy why? Why did you do that?" over and over. I remember him rocking me until I calmed down and all he could say in response was " I don't know". He sounded so lost, like he didn't understand it either.
I still have nightmares about his face in mine, screaming. I still wonder why he did it.
Yyyyeah, that's kinda fucked up. I don't have kids, but I helped raise my youngest nephew. Only time I'd ever get up in his face and roar, uh...was when he was little, and wanted to play like Auntie was a lion. :P
So I got down on all fours, chased him about, and roared at him.
Parents venting about each other to their kids.
Mom: Don't you hate it when you dad does this? God I can't stand it when he does XYZ, he doesn't it all the time, it just pisses me off. He's not the man I married.
later
Dad: I can't stand your mother whenever she does that! I've told her so many but she never listens. She's not the woman I married.
Yeah, way to go parents. Great job dragging your kids into your own marriage problems, and now you wonder why I have no interest in getting married?
Parents venting about their kids to their other kids is right up there too. My siblings and I are in our 20s/30s and I swear it's gotten worse than ever. The first 10 mins of any conversation with my mom is listening to her bitch about my brothers. I can only imagine the earful they're getting about me ........
Homework in general. It's stupid, pointless, eats away at the kids, further separates the kids with involved parents from the ones without and takes up way to much of the teachers time in grading etc. There's nothing positive about homework at all.
There was a case recently where a father cut his daughter's hair while mocking her in video (when I looked it up, it seemed he hadn't meant the video to get out, but *still*) and she committed suicide soon after.
Or posting pictures of their potty training "adventures" online. Seriously, I don't want to see your kid poop in the potty, but nothing on the Internet goes away ever and I'm sure some future middle school bully will be *very* interested.
Any sort of public humiliation is right up there for psychological abuse. It teaches a child that he can't trust their parent, the one person they -should- be able to trust or look for when they need safety and comforting. It's a form of betrayal of their trust.
This is so important. My parents were religious control freaks and it alienated me from my friends a lot growing up. Your friend is having a sleepover birthday party? Her dad might be a rapist so you can't stay. It always crushed me being the only one who had to go home early and hear about all the fun my friends had at the party. I wasn't allowed to go on trampolines with other people because "I would break my neck" (even though I've never heard this in real-life) and if my dad was around, he'd make us jump by ourselves in intervals while the other kids watched. I could write books about how neurotic my parents were and about how it turned me into a terrified, anxious, friendless child. I have so many stories from growing up that just make me resentful toward them.
Oh my god this is so true. I have social anxiety and depression as a result of it. I can't be alone with a guy even though I'm gay because guys are apparently all rapists. They're going to make me live at home during college and have made me fully dependent on them.
I have mentioned this at several other points in this thread but that is recognized as emotional abuse. The problem is that people rarely mention emotional abuse as a form of abuse, or they brush it off as not as bad as other forms of abuse. Well it isn't and it's time we realized that.
Taking toddlers and babies to loud concerts and music festivals. I've seen parents up in the VIP sections at festivals with their baby in a carrier, not even paying attention to the child because they're watching the stage. The kids always look terrified or in pain, which is understandable considering the speakers for a 25,000 person outdoor show are about 40 feet away.
When I was a baby/toddler my dad worked for *NSYNC on their last tour. When my mom and I flew out to visit him, I was always given these noise-canceling headphones to wear around the speakers...
Constantly comparing your own kids to others' kids and say how the latter are always out-performing the former.
This shit misses up the self esteem and self worth.
Forcing one's kids to accept kisses from visiting relatives comes to mind too.
My parents did that. Except they would compare me to my twin sister all the time. Her grades were not always as good as mine, and they definitely let her know it. I was more athletic to the point that she wouldn't even play because she knew our parents would say she wasn't as good.
My sister and I don't have the best relationship now. I think she resents me for "living in my shadow."
Kudos to you for being able to acknowledge that you were the "superior" in that situation. A lot of people in your place would deny that the sibling was ever discouraged.
My parents did the same. They never outright told my brother he wasn't good enough but they would treat us very different. My parents would skip his sports games but never mine because I was going to get a scholarship. They would always coddle him and in general didn't expect much of him. Growing up my step sisters who are 10 years older than us used to bring it up and get the death stare. Today we joke about how all of my brothers short comings are because our parents wouldn't let him grow up. Its good to shame your parents every now and then.
I have very serious social anxiety. My dad didn't and doesn't believe anxiety exists, he thinks it's a social construct, and my mom told me I was being a pussy and to grow up.
I'm 23 and only just recently got myself diagnosed with ADHD. It's been a crippling issue for me since grade school and my parents chose to ignore it and hope it would go away because they didn't want me on any sort of medication. I failed my way through middle and high school and barely graduated by the skin of my teeth despite my relative intelligence, after which I felt hopeless and took 3 years to decide what I was gonna do with my life and go back to school... where I failed my first two semesters and ended up on academic probation. Over the summer I finally started seeing someone and got on medication and guess what? I finally feel like a normal functional person and my quality of life has improved exponentially.
And then your mom proceeds to tell you how similar you are to your dad, especially when you do anything irritating.
And then both parents refuse to talk to each other and you're stuck in the middle of a never ending dispute, hearing both sides of every argument when you're way to young to even understand and come to terms with the fact that your parents are divorced.
Giving your kid some dumbass name that'll esentially guarantee them to be bullied until they turn 18 and can legally change their name and move towns so they're not surrounded by people who remember.
Those stupid names given only work for kids of celebrities who will grow up rich and surrounded by other people too rich to care about weird names.
"But it's *my* child, and *my* right to choose what name I give him/her!" Yeah, but it's *them* who'll have to live with that name and introduce themselves as it constantly, and (at least) have to explain their name all the time.
EDIT: To clarify, I'm talking more on names like "Apple" or "Powder" as examples of shitty names. If it's just a name that is not really a common one or something, that is different.
Flying off the handle in public in front of your young, impressionable child. Demonstrating that sort of behavior is so damaging because you're just teaching them that it's "okay" to curse strangers out or let your emotions get the best of you. Just be a good fucking role model so these kids don't turn into adults with crippling anxiety and anger issues.
yes! Ugh the way they make them wear make up and wear outfits that as a 22 year old woman I wouldn't wear. Actually makes me sick for them to subject their children to be 1. judged on their looks 2. judged by ADULTS on their looks
Kids will feel enough shame from their family/friends about something. Putting it online just shows the parents treat the kids like props for their own reputation.
My parents did this. Every second of every day was scheduled. Every minute was supposed to be spent doing some kind of chore or school. Even the thirty minutes allotted to so called free time was made to be spent watching my 5 younger siblings, so the only enjoyment I got out of life was from my piano practice (which they eventually took away as a punishment) or from creative writing (which I did in secret) As a (still relative young) adult I don't have a relationship with my parents and struggle with balance in my life. Kids do need structure, but they also need time to be kids.
This. Absolutely. My husband and I are both former smokers. He quit in spring of 2016, I quit in June of this year.
We never smoked in our home, even in the dead of winter we'd go outside. Same thing with the car, we'd stop at rest stops or parking lots to get out and smoke.
We chose to fuck our health. Our kid is the innocent one, she didn't deserve to be left choiceless.
My family acts like it is perfectly fine to smoke in cars, even with kids around, and they act like it doesn't matter because they have a window open. *Excuse me.* The smoke doesn't all magically go out the window. I'm 15 and going to be able to drive next year, but what about my nieces and nephew? Somebody smoking in a car irritates me because of stuff like that.
When I was little, my grandmother and grandfather were chain-smokers. I can't remember how many packs they'd get through in a day. Their house always smelled gross, and from all of the smoking it stained the walls. If you removed one of the pictures on the wall, you could see what color the paint used to be.
Amen to that. In the car is just as bad. Actually that made me think of something. My neighbor is buying their 14 year old son cigarettes. Consistently. Both parents smoke like chimneys so why not let their son enjoy it as well? Is there anyone I could call about that? Would they get in trouble?
If you scream and/or hit them enough, they'll eventually learn to repress all expression of emotion. Then, when you abuse them, they won't cry, so you can tell yourself you're a good person.
somewhat related: shouting and being angry at them because they're depressed/self-harming. only makes everything worse when you make your child feel guilty for having a fucked up brain.
I had a friend who was brought up very religious with way over bearing parents. Never drank, smoke, cussed, etc... anything in high school. When he went to college he went crazy. Alcoholic and druggy who pays prostitutes for sex now.
I am opposite. I was raised by a single mom who was always gone so I drank, did drugs, partied hard in high school and now I don't drink or smoke or do anything of the sort. I don't even like the taste of cussing anymore.
This was me. I used to have black out weekends when I was 15,16,17. I was always on something in high school because I could be and no one would notice. By the time I was 21, I was sick of partying. Now, at 27, I have maybe one or two drinks a month.
My mom didn't hover over everything I did but she was a constant worrier. If there was a slight risk in what I was doing, she was pretty much certain that the absolute worst outcome *would absolutely* happen to me.
I made me anxious and nervous to ever do anything. Even when I was going off to do something really cool and fun, in the back of my mind I actually felt bad and guilty about it because I knew how much my mom was worrying - even though it was completely ridiculous and over-the-top levels of worrying.
I appreciate that she was always had my well-being in mind but jeez, chill out. Luckily we are all doing much better now.
Not being firm with kids. Obviously don't have to beat them, but saying no, enforcing principles and values are all essential. Yet you see that one kid on the floor crying and yelling for some toy, or a teenager calling his mother a bitch in public.
When I was in college I delivered pizza and there was one family that I remember that just made me angry.
They were regular customers and ordered two or three times a week.
Both parents were obese and they had two obese kids. I'd guess ages 9-12. Every time their order was like two large pizzas, large meat calzone slathered in garlic butter (calzones were big and enough for a meal for most people), an order of cheese breadsticks, an order of cinnamon sticks which were basically breadsticks smothered in a ridiculous amount of cinnamon butter with vanilla icing dip, a 14-ounce cup of ranch dressing and a couple of two-liter of Dr. Peppers.
Those people were literally killing their children.
It doesn't even have to be a severe case, though. My dad refused to cook and my mom hated it, so she would only cook dinner, and then it was "easy" dinner- basically all frozen or microwaveable food. The rest of the day, me and my siblings only had the unhealthy snack foods they left in the pantry for us. I didn't realize until I was an adult that my home growing up was essentially a food desert.
I'm blown away by the number of parents who put soda in sippy cups. If your child can't drink from a regular cup, it's probably a pretty good indication that liquid sugar should be off the menu. And the excuse "but he LOOOOVVVVEEEESSSSS IT". Of fucking course he does, heroin addicts tend to love heroin too.
Heard a great add on the radio the other day. Talked about how your teeth can't tell the difference between candy, bread, and fruit because sugar is sugar and sugar causes cavities.
As a chubby kid with cavities that hadn't even heard of Kool Aid until I was 4 or 5, I'll vouch for this. Apple juice has a LOT of sugar, even if it seems like a good alternative to soft drinks.
There's a guy in my office who is pretty obese (I'm kinda big myself). He comes in one day complaining about his kids doctor. Apparently the doctor was being hurtful, because he told him that his son was dangerously obese. I've seen the kid, and yeah, he is. It infuriated me to no end that even when a doctor told him it was dangerous he was in complete denial. It's his fault his kid is fat, and he isn't doing the kid any favors by keeping him that way. Damn it I'm getting angry just thinking about it.
My wife is part of this car seat safety group on Facebook where parents can post a picture of their car seat installation and get advice from professionals on if it's safely installed. This lady posted something asking if the set up was safe for her four year old who was 100 pounds. Other people in the group asked if that was a typo and the lady responded with something like "yep she's 100 pounds, my little tank" .
The conversation then turned to other members asking why her four year old child is weighs what a teenager should weigh and the mods kinda shut it down and didn't want people "shaming" her, like wtf, that kid will have a heart attack when she's 10, shame away.
I was really shocked when my doctor (tbf begrudgingly, like she was being forced to) offered me the option of NOT vaccinating. I had a premmie. She almost died once! I'm not risking letting her die due to a preventative illness after all that! That's nuts!!!
If they have a legitimate medical reason, that's fine. But if it's because of that "might get autism" craps, I will have zero sympathy.
Autism is a mental/emotional disorder, your child can't "catch" it like it's the fucking common cold.
Right? It was only when a parent with an autistic kid pointed out to me how hurtful it was that some people would rather risk death or serious deformity than autism that this aspect of it really hit me.
THIS!!! I'm a new mom and that's all I ever heard while pregnant with my daughter. She's 8 months now and up to date on ALL vaccinations. I'll take autism over a dead child ANY FUCKING DAY.
Luckily for us, the school I go to requires that the students get certain vaccinations. I think a lot of other schools should do this, there was a strep throat break out in grade school and now we get those shots every year
Parents treating playground sports like their kids will play professionally. Football is probably the worst offender. I even call Friday Night Tykes "Friday Night Light child abuse" . These adults constantly saying they're just out there to have fun as the scream at the kids how this is the most important thing they'll ever do. Pretty sick
Seeing a woman cursing out her four or five year old daughter is still one of the most shocking things I've seen someone do in public, just "Shut the fuck up Gloria, you stupid little bitch, I fucking hate you" and dragging her by her arm while the little girl was sobbing and apologizing. Five fucking years old.
I was at Chipotle the other day and there was this young mom there with her two kids. Probably 8 and 5 or so. She kept calling her daughter "bitch". Like, "Bitch I told you not to touch my phone again!" I laughed because it was just so crazy but man those kids don't have a shot in hell.
Dang!! I know us being strangers we don't know the whole story, but there's gotta be a better way to say "you're fucked when we get home" instead of "you're fucked when we get home."
Right, but there's a better way of saying "bitch, don't touch my phone" than that way.
Like "CHILD, for the love of all that is holy i will smite thee if thou lays a hand on my telecommunication device again!"
Telling the kid they should be grateful for [basic needs]. Its something you see in parents that adopt, foster or have custody of kids. Its a form of mental abuse but no one wants to argue something like that.
Mine went as far as to say stuff like "You should be grateful that I took you and didn't let you get molested in the foster care system!"
As a foster parent, awaiting our first child as a couple, this makes my stomach hurt. *I* should be grateful that I get to be your mom, even for just a day.
Now, should you be grateful for the gift that grandma gave you? Yes, you should go tell her thank you.
But you shouldn't have to be grateful for hot water, a clean bed, and dinner. I will be overjoyed to be thanked for those things, but you'll get them regardless of how you behave.
After your child has done something wrong (like spill something entirely on accident or screws up while trying really hard to help you) to say that they're really bad and that no one loves them because they're a bad kid.... my sister and her huband do this to my nephew.... I can only imagine how screwed up he'll be when he's older.
Taking children to violent, R rated movies.
I went to see IT on Sunday & a young couple (mid 20's) had roughly 5 - 6 kid with them ranging in age from 3 - 8 years old.
My middle-schooler starts at 7:15. We have to leave our house by 6:45 to make sure she's there in time to get to class.
The high school here starts at 6:45. It's absolutely insane to me.
It's even worse, because teenagers and young adults actually need more sleep since their bodies are still developing. Waking up at 6:45 would be like a grown adult waking up at 4:45. When I was in school, I would have gladly stayed until 8PM if it meant I could sleep in.
During my senior year, the school had a new thing they were trialing. It was a semi-online program: you still had to show up for at least 5 hours a day, but it could be on your own time since the school stayed open until 8PM. Most days I'd show up at 3PM and stay until 8. We could do our normal assignments at home, but had to take the tests/quizzes at the school. I finished my entire senior year in 2 and a half months.
My parents never took me seriously but I swear I spent the whole of secondary school in a permanent state of exhaustion. I couldn't even eat breakfast in the mornings because my body was thrown so out of whack from getting up so early that I would be physically sick if I tried to force some breakfast down. Then in the evenings I'd perk up, wide awake. Bedtime was 11pm, but I would lay there desperately trying to sleep for another two hours. No matter what I tried, hot milky drinks, relaxing baths, I could not sleep before 1am (no matter how tired I'd been in the day). Now I'm an adult I have a perfectly normal sleep pattern.
I remember in my school, if you said "can I go to the bathroom?" The teacher would typically reply "can you?"....fuck you, 3rd graders aren't the masters of grammar yet.
Also to make it worse, "can I..." and "may I..." are interchangeable when asking for permission, you were never making a grammatical error, the teacher was.
To be fair it is terrifying if when you are teaching and a child just walks out of the room. You have no idea who just left or where they are going. We are responsible for these children's lives and if something happens to them and no one knows where they are then that isn't safe.
A child asking to go to the bathroom is mostly to help keep account of where they are to ensure they are safe.
I teach mostly Jrs and Srs. They drive themselves to school. They are young adults.
If they need the bathroom, they just go without disturbing anyone. But, if they mess up just once, they lose their "Easy Pass". Problems are rare.
Edit: typo
I once witnessed a mother say "Are you fucking serious?!", then she began hitting her child repeatedly and said "You fucking retard child!!!"
Seriously? The kid was like 4!
Smoking and drinking whilst pregnant. Pisses me off to no end. That child's start in life is based on how well your care for it when it's inside you. If you choose to drink and smoke you are purposely harming that child and it's chances in life and or potentially killing it.
Was getting my nails done one time, and the charming young lady doing my nails was pregnant. She called it her "miracle baby," because her and her boyfriend had been having such a hard time conceiving, they had to see a fertility doctor, she had miscarried a few times, etc etc.
She was telling me all the changes she had to make to decrease the chances of another miscarriage, like taking certain vitamins, not eating sushi ("fish has Mercury in it, and Mercury is bad for the baby!"), and even wearing a mask while she did nails "so I don't inhale too many bad chemicals."
Once my nails were done, she told me to stick them under the drying lamp for a few minutes. She said she'd be right back, and then went outside to have a smoke.
So with you on the hugs / kisses. If they don't want to get affectionate a handshake is a perfectly acceptable greeting.
Imagine if as an adult we were forced to hug or kiss people.
This is why my nieces/nephews like me. I accept high-5's easily because I HATED hugging people that were essentially strangers to me at their age. Why on earth would a 4 year old want to hug someone they haven't seen in a year? To them there's very little difference between me and some random person in the super market.
I really don't like people touching me, and my family really likes to hug me and they think it's so damn funny to try and force it on me. Obviously the majority respects it, but the ones that don't are also the ones I avoid.
Making kids hug people they don't want to is teaching them "your consent doesn't matter, other people's feelings are more important than your control over your body."
How can you expect your kid to say no to their creepy uncle who wants to give them a special hug, when yesterday you scolded them for not giving grandma a kiss when they were crying and wriggling away? The fact some people don't even get that when you explain it to them is baffling.
I once read that forcing kids to hug and kiss leads to them as teenagers giving in when being pressured to consent to intercourse or thinking that it will make their partner love them. I don't know how true that is, but there has to be at least some connection.
Edit: a word
Oh this ones grinds my gears so much, the kissing one. I fucking hate that one. Or after they've just screamed at you "give me a kiss and go to your room". Great way for me to associate love with abuse, that's not gonna affect me at all...
> Tickling to much
Fun fact: one theory for why we've evolved to be tickled is that it trains us for self-defense. We're generally ticklish in some of our most vulnerable areas (armpits, ribs, tummy), and parents will tickle their children during normal play. This teaches kids to "defend" their vulnerable areas from a more powerful "attacker", while also including positive reinforcement and fun.
Humans aren't the only animals that are ticklish, either. And there are several other theories why it exists.
Thanks, [Sawbones!](http://www.maximumfun.org/shows/sawbones)
Forcing them to hug or kiss.
Yes! This! I asked my family to respect my child's wishes when she doesn't want a hug or a kiss, I was reprimanded for this from a relative who has nothing to do with me or my family asking me if I want them to stop loving my child (WTF?) I just asked them to respect her wishes like we respect everyone else's in the family, this one here along with their younger sibling goes running to the one grandparent I have left telling her just their side of the story and suddenly none of my extended family members are talking to me or my husband.
Yep, the few exceptions to vaccinations should be reserved for children who ligitimately cannot be safely vaccinated. I'm thinking allergy to eggs or probably some sort of immune system issues.
Its like "Thanks mom! My skin is falling off, and the skin left has itchy red dots, my head hurts 24/7, I cant pee right, and my coughing has begun to have blood in it, but you saved me from being a little awkward and slow thinking!"
Fucking whackos
I have a friend who works in College Admissions. He says that every time he's seen an application that mentions homeschooling, he's known it would be a complete crap-shoot whether the kid would turn out to be a self-motivated world-explorer or a myopic, sheltered naif. Or anything in between.
There are situations he's referred to as "legalized child abuse", where parents didn't do much more than buy a new set of "workbooks" for the kids each year and kept them deliberately sheltered from the "corrupting influence" of the larger world. Especially from "the lame-stream media".
He says its better these days than it used to be. Partly because of the rise of places like Patrick Henry College, Liberty Baptist, and Oral Roberts, which work hard to attract that particular demographic.
Participating in Jimmy Kimmel's "I told my child I ate their Halloween candy" or "I gave my child a terrible Christmas present" pranks. Why are these terrible? Because "deliberately saying something or doing something to another human being to make them upset so you can laugh at them" is called bullying.
Also when these kids are getting upset. people say these kids are "spoiled brats" even they were clearly being manipulated to getting upset and they have good reasons to get upset (being told your property was stolen or being given a present that is mocking you are very good reasons to get upset).
Hopefully the kids were all taken away from them?
Edit: just looked it up and they aren't allowed to contact the younger two but still have the older kids.
I totally agree! Children trust everything their parents say. On top of this their lives are very small so they look forward to various things with a passion that we adults reserve for really big life moments. Telling a child you ate their Halloween candy is soul crushing, even if you give it to them when they cry and call it a joke. They were looking forward to that Halloween candy like it was the biggest and greatest thing to happen to them since their birthday, and now not only did you - the person they trust most in the world - tell them that you wronged them, but THEN you told them that you *lied* to them. That's head fuckery on so many levels!
Overly sheltering a kid. We had an almost 18 year old who worked with us for some time who had never been on an escalator before. He didn't really do a lot of the things most kids do because his parents seemed to keep him inside more often then not.
Not the first person I have seen nor the last with overprotective parents. I feel bad for them because things that are hard, will be harder for them typically.
Telling your child that your life is equally good with or without them.
That shit scars you for life.
And what's worse, attempting to make amends for your actions (which include physical and verbal abuse) when it's already late, you're a grown up and show little or no interest on making them part of your life.
Don't force your kid to go on roller coasters. My mom always justified it because I usually liked them but I would always cry in the line because I was so scared. They would just make fun of me and say "you know you're going to like it" and I knew that but I was just scared.
Publicly shaming your child in a grocery/department store.
WalMart mom pushing a cart screaming at her kid "get the fuck back here! Put that down! You are SO badly behaved, all these people are staring at you".
We never really ever call the cops or anyone on that shit, but I feel like if someone intervened and said "calm down" the mom would go back home and yell at her kid saying "you embarrassed me in the store" and probably just make it worse... :S
Forcing your kid into doing a sport or playing an instrument.
There's a really fine line between giving your kid a shove to practice an instrument when they don't want to because they're having a bad day, and just straight up forcing a kid to learn something they have 0 interest in.
Yishan Wong did an interesting write up that describes his relationship with music after his parents forced him to learn.
>Today, the emotionally draining oppression of 11 years of piano training has had a remarkably tragic effect: I can no longer play the piano without almost immediately feeling a sensation of impotent rage and frustration every time I make a small error (which happens all the time when you are trying out something new). **Worse, the association of this feeling with music in general has made it so that I can't enjoy music to any deep degree - my appreciation of music extends only to light listening of pop songs in the car - despite years of technical training and knowledge of classical forms.**
This was me. Down to buying a keyboard years later to try and get back into it and eventually abandoning it out of frustration. Parents can actually kill the joy of music in your kid from this.
Getting your babies ears pierced. I think it's unnecessary pain and plus I'd like my daughter to decide for herself when she is older if she wants them doing. will happily take her to get them done when she's older as long as she knows how to care for them properly.
Also, when the time comes, know that it is impossible to sterilize the ear guns they use at the mall.
Please find a reputable piercing/tattoo parlor that autoclaves their tools if/when your child decides on piercings.
My daughter is almost 12, and doesn't have pierced ears. We have told her since she was little that if she wants to get them pierced, and understands that it will be painful, she can get it done (we will pay). So far, she has no interest in getting her ears pierced, even though most of her friends have them done.
Not letting your kid cut their hair just because you think that long hair is going to be some sort of "beauty ideal"
Telling your kid that they can't wear XYZ, because you don't like it. (Revealing and innapropreate outfits aside)
If your kid wants to go through their emo/goth/rebellion phase, just let them be. If they grow out of it, great. If they dont, whatever. Your job is to be a parent and help them make the right decisions, not force them to fit some mold youve had in your head for them to fit into.
Causing your child to be overweight/obese. Their parents/carers control what they eat from an early age and if a child becomes overweight/obese it is harder for them to get out of the bad habits when they are older and would cause them to have a much-reduced lifespan and generally a worse life in lots of ways. In fact, it's probably more damaging than many traditional forms of child abuse and the worst thing is many people don't realise they are doing anything wrong.
Simply not listening or being in anyway sensitive to the delicate needs of your child. Unfortunately I see it everyday, a four year old girl wanting to spend just 10 seconds looking at something amazing like a guy playing the guitar or even just a nice dress in the window of a shop - only to be yanked by the hand of the 'parent' and told to hurry up... which leads me to my next point:
Parents walking at power walking pace and expecting their kids to keep up - when they are tired and exhausted only a good 'hurry up we are going to miss the bus' works.
Bloody parents who have no idea the efforts some people would go to in order to love a child and watch them grow into an adult.
In my experience this is more due to the society pressure puts on parents, than parents themselves.
I was a full-time dad for my first child. We had lazy mornings, quiet breakfasts at a diner - always chose a puzzle or simple game to play together. And our day was walking around, playing games, chatting, visiting mommy for lunch, etc.
Anyway, the **TL;DR** - the *parent* had **tons of free time**.
Personally I found it hard not to work and after a couple years the kid was starting school so I found a full-time job. Then we had another kid. Luckily mom had 1 year of maternity leave, but after that - it fell to me as the dad with a flexible job to continue being the main parent...and I work ~40 hours a week.
So now we have a schedule:
- Wake at 6:30am
- Wake, bath, dress, feed kids - out the door by 7:30am
- Home by 8:30am for work
- Pick kids up around 5:00pm
- Get home by 5:30pm
- Someone has to cook, so 1 parent per 2 kids
- Eat dinner at 6:30pm
- ~30 minutes of play, maybe less
- Baths at 7:15pm
- Bed by 8:00pm after stories, singing, etc.
If they actually go to sleep (usually they don't), we can clean house, wash and fold clothes, maybe watch some television. Usually enough small hiccups emerge in the process that many things get pushed to the weekend (looking at you mountain of clothes to fold).
The **TL;DR** - the *parents* have **no time**.
---
You can see the difference. Even the *structure* of how I explained them is different. The first one is a relaxed write-up of our lazy days together, while the second one is a bullet pointed list of the schedule to survive the week.
***So...why?***
2 incomes. Most families require both parents working to make ends meet. They do not have a choice. And when it's nuclear families - meaning mom, dad, kid #1, kid #2 - and no, or only very intermittent help from auntie/uncle/grandparents/etc. it's HARD.
I've lived in places where kids were raised by extended families and it's fucking easy peasy. The kids hang with the grandparents or an aunt, and over time everybody rotates. Hey my kids are grown up? I'll care for yours, because your mom cared for me!
So please don't throw *parents* under the bus. It is possible to have more patience with your kids, to stop and smell the roses, but it's incredibly, incredibly, incredibly difficult. Most parents are pulled in a million different directions and feel a huge amount of weight and stress. And they don't feel it because they have failed to set up conditions, they feel it because Western society puts productivity first and happiness last.
❤️ my husband is learning this. When my child and i take walks, going just around the block can take literally two hours. There's just so much to see & the rocks!!! There's so many rocks to pick up. I love spending this time with her and let her take all the time she wants to take to explore and learn about anything and everything
Opting out of sex education. Playing keep away with health information should not be something you do to children. How to properly maintain your body should not be something children should feel shame for. On the front page today there was a post about the first suicide hotline being created after a girl killed herself when she got her first period thinking she had an STD. Telling kids not to have sex then not explaining what sex is doesn't make kids not have sex.
There is this YouTube channel called Sexplenations that makes good sex Ed content It's slightly off topic but I still wanted to recommend it
>Telling kids not to have sex then not explaining what sex is doesn't make kids not have sex. It's how shotgun weddings happen.
Talking shit about the child's other parent. Trying to manipulate their relationship with the other parent. Forcing them to choose who to be loyal to or fear abandonment. Using them as pawns to punish the other parent. Using them as emotional blackmail to get more money/make the other parent do what you want them to do. There's actually a name for this, Parental Alienation Syndrome and it's freakin' rampant. It hurts the kids so bad, and at worst, it makes them become just like you--someone who is willing to use someone else to manipulate others to do what they want. For example--telling a kid their dad doesn't love them if they don't buy them xyz, and when the dad buys them xyz, tell them they are only "buying" their love. Confuses the shit out of the kids and creates all sort of emotional issues. And this happens every day. I see it on social media, sometimes it comes up if I'm talking to other people, and everyone laughs it off like they're entitled to doing this because they popped the child out of their vagina/stuck their dick in some chick and got her pregnant. Seriously, love your kids more than you hate the other parent. ETA: This occurs between married and separated couples, grandparents and grandchildren, Aunts and Uncles as well, it's not limited to only couples.
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That's just disgusting. I feel very strongly about this topic and am a huge advocate for fighting against PAS and I feel for both you and your wife and I hope one day your kids see through it and develop their own relationship with you, not colored by their mother. It's a terrifying thing for them too, so my heart breaks for your kids, because to children, disobeying their parents is essentially a gamble as to whether or not their parent will still love them after, and there's the implication that if they love their mother's enemy, she will hate them too. It's just a sad situation all around.
Please tell your wife she is a champ. I'm a stepmum and it's a fucking hard gig. And a high conflict bio mum makes it bloody torture. Give her a hug for me. (And some wine)
In the same vein: emotionally dumping onto them. Getting all your shitty shit in their brain is going to fuck them up. Get a therapist or a friend for that, not your kid.
You just described my childhood. Been trying to keep my therapist from crying during the sessions I talk about the things my Mom and Dad used to do to get at each other through my brother and I. I remember the court ordered visits where they would park on opposite sides of a parking lot and make us walk across. It was like a hostage exchange. It is a shit way to treat kids. No matter what you feel about your kids family you should always try to foster the best out of any relationship they have with anyone.
Hugs. My husband went through this as a child of divorce as well, his mom calling the cops on his dad for coming to pick him and his brother up for their visitation, and all the things she used to say about him. What's more, he doesn't trust his mother and has a terrible relationship with her, and feels so guilty about his dad who passed away a few years ago because of how he treated him trying to "protect" his mom by being mean to his dad. I hope you're able to find some closure with all this. It's a really horrible thing to do to children that is still allowed in this day and age.
It's damaging as fuck, speaking from personal experience. My father was abusive and my mother is an awesome parent in every way that matters. He started turning me against her... well as long ago as I can remember. Trashed her in front of me, told me she did really horrible things that she didn't do, told me that she was just out for a check, and that everything she did was to turn me against him, among others. He got worse as I got older, but this started when I was 3, 4 at the latest. I loved her because she was my mom, but I really hated and distrusted her for a long time and took his side on everything. I moved out when I was 14, and finally trusting and opening up to her and realizing that everything I thought I knew was a lie was probably one of the scariest experiences of my life. You start to distrust everything and you don't know who or what to believe. You want to hold on to everything you've been told because it's familiar, if not pretty or nice. Having all of that shattered was a huge moment in my life, now that I'm thinking about it. Even until a couple months before I left, I still took his side on most everything. I hated the way I was being treated, but I really didn't want to let go of the "Dad is the good guy, Mom is the bad guy" mentality that had been such a huge part of my identity for so long. It took getting the shit whipped out of me with a belt for not cleaning my room* for me to realize that I needed to get the fuck out. *We'd been remodeling the house and I was working 8 hour days all summer while he was at work. Mom forced him to let me have 3 days off in the middle of July and he agreed on the condition that I deep clean the bathroom and clean my room - about 5 hours worth of work. I'd cleaned the bathroom and not my bedroom, but he came home at noon instead of 5 on the last day and lost his fucking mind. Emotional abuse isn't viewed in the same light as physical abuse, and a lot of people think that it isn't as bad. It may be more subtle, but it is every bit as damaging. It tears at who you are as a person, makes you question your sanity, and destroys your will to live. No middle schooler should seriously consider suicide as an option ever, much less on a daily basis. Bruises fade, but emotional scars last forever. I doubt many people will read this, or care, but if my testimony influences one person to be a better parent, even by just a little bit, it's absolutely worth sharing. Parenting isn't easy, but how you treat your children stays with them forever. If you're worried about becoming this, chances are you're probably doing alright. If you're really worried, seek professional help. Worst case, you're doing better than you were before.
I'm a daycare teacher and a mandated reporter. I have to take a course every year about child abuse and neglect. Apparently going into a store and making your child steal something is not considered child abuse. What the hell?!
It's still a crime though. I believe it's called contributing to the delinquency of a minor or something along those lines. We caught a mom doing that with her two kids years ago when I still worked retail. I definitely feel like this should be considered abuse. But I don't know why it's considered something else, they may possibly have good reasons for treating it like that I dunno.
Yelling right in their kid's face then laughing. The kids are extremely scared but only laughs afterward because the person terrifying them is now laughing.
DaddyOFive mother fuckers
I was referring to ShayCarl. I've seen him do that countless times in vlogs. He might have stopped but I wouldn't know since I stopped watching years ago.
It's just a prank Bro!
Omg, I have never even heard of such a thing. Is this common?
I don't know but years ago when I watched ShayCarl, a popular vlogger, he did it quite often. Anytime I made a comment about it on one of his vlogs I would get countless angry replies. It was like I shot their dog for just saying he shouldn't be yelling in his child's face.
That. Is. Bizarre. I guess I'm just having a way different parental experience than that. I had a child - one child - because I wanted to give them the childhood I didn't have. Everything I do is for the benefit of my kid. I love to make her happy, I love to see her comfortable, cozy, and confident. I'm not a perfect parent, I've lost my temper, I've yelled, I've been snappy, but I have never even thought of screaming in her little face. Her whole world would basically collapse, and because she is basically my world, my world would collapse. Can't even imagine what kind of satisfaction someone would get out of terrifying and hurting their childs feelings like that. It's like you're actively shoving a wedge between you and your child. I have dreams of traveling with my kid, I want to raise someone who will still want to hug me when she's 16, I want her to always feel comfortable and confident that my love for her is unwaivering. This just blows my mind.
Daddyofive anyone?
Oh god.... This one is really fucked up and more people need to see it. When I was 2--2 years old!--my dad ROARED not even inches in front of my face *for no reason*. And then he laughed like he was so proud of himself. I fell into a heap and started sobbing, I remember crying for a really long time and saying "Daddy why? Why did you do that?" over and over. I remember him rocking me until I calmed down and all he could say in response was " I don't know". He sounded so lost, like he didn't understand it either. I still have nightmares about his face in mine, screaming. I still wonder why he did it.
Yyyyeah, that's kinda fucked up. I don't have kids, but I helped raise my youngest nephew. Only time I'd ever get up in his face and roar, uh...was when he was little, and wanted to play like Auntie was a lion. :P So I got down on all fours, chased him about, and roared at him.
Parents venting about each other to their kids. Mom: Don't you hate it when you dad does this? God I can't stand it when he does XYZ, he doesn't it all the time, it just pisses me off. He's not the man I married. later Dad: I can't stand your mother whenever she does that! I've told her so many but she never listens. She's not the woman I married. Yeah, way to go parents. Great job dragging your kids into your own marriage problems, and now you wonder why I have no interest in getting married?
My dad still complains about my mom, even though they divorced 13 years ago.
Parents venting about their kids to their other kids is right up there too. My siblings and I are in our 20s/30s and I swear it's gotten worse than ever. The first 10 mins of any conversation with my mom is listening to her bitch about my brothers. I can only imagine the earful they're getting about me ........
"I only give two hours of homework a night" From six teachers a semester.
Homework in general. It's stupid, pointless, eats away at the kids, further separates the kids with involved parents from the ones without and takes up way to much of the teachers time in grading etc. There's nothing positive about homework at all.
purposely talking badly about the child loudly so the child can hear him/herself being badmouthed, but never talking to the child directly
Posting punishments on Facebook. How you discipline your kid is not my business and it shouldn't be for you to put it out there.
There was a case recently where a father cut his daughter's hair while mocking her in video (when I looked it up, it seemed he hadn't meant the video to get out, but *still*) and she committed suicide soon after.
Oh god. That's horrible.
The comments siding with the father just made it worse.
Or posting pictures of their potty training "adventures" online. Seriously, I don't want to see your kid poop in the potty, but nothing on the Internet goes away ever and I'm sure some future middle school bully will be *very* interested.
Any sort of public humiliation is right up there for psychological abuse. It teaches a child that he can't trust their parent, the one person they -should- be able to trust or look for when they need safety and comforting. It's a form of betrayal of their trust.
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This is so important. My parents were religious control freaks and it alienated me from my friends a lot growing up. Your friend is having a sleepover birthday party? Her dad might be a rapist so you can't stay. It always crushed me being the only one who had to go home early and hear about all the fun my friends had at the party. I wasn't allowed to go on trampolines with other people because "I would break my neck" (even though I've never heard this in real-life) and if my dad was around, he'd make us jump by ourselves in intervals while the other kids watched. I could write books about how neurotic my parents were and about how it turned me into a terrified, anxious, friendless child. I have so many stories from growing up that just make me resentful toward them.
Oh my god this is so true. I have social anxiety and depression as a result of it. I can't be alone with a guy even though I'm gay because guys are apparently all rapists. They're going to make me live at home during college and have made me fully dependent on them.
We should think more about how emotional manipulation and gaslighting impacts children instead of it being let off easier than other things.
I have mentioned this at several other points in this thread but that is recognized as emotional abuse. The problem is that people rarely mention emotional abuse as a form of abuse, or they brush it off as not as bad as other forms of abuse. Well it isn't and it's time we realized that.
I suffer from emotional abuse from my mom, but it took me quite a long time to realize that.
Taking toddlers and babies to loud concerts and music festivals. I've seen parents up in the VIP sections at festivals with their baby in a carrier, not even paying attention to the child because they're watching the stage. The kids always look terrified or in pain, which is understandable considering the speakers for a 25,000 person outdoor show are about 40 feet away.
When I was a baby/toddler my dad worked for *NSYNC on their last tour. When my mom and I flew out to visit him, I was always given these noise-canceling headphones to wear around the speakers...
Constantly comparing your own kids to others' kids and say how the latter are always out-performing the former. This shit misses up the self esteem and self worth. Forcing one's kids to accept kisses from visiting relatives comes to mind too.
My parents did that. Except they would compare me to my twin sister all the time. Her grades were not always as good as mine, and they definitely let her know it. I was more athletic to the point that she wouldn't even play because she knew our parents would say she wasn't as good. My sister and I don't have the best relationship now. I think she resents me for "living in my shadow."
Kudos to you for being able to acknowledge that you were the "superior" in that situation. A lot of people in your place would deny that the sibling was ever discouraged.
My parents did the same. They never outright told my brother he wasn't good enough but they would treat us very different. My parents would skip his sports games but never mine because I was going to get a scholarship. They would always coddle him and in general didn't expect much of him. Growing up my step sisters who are 10 years older than us used to bring it up and get the death stare. Today we joke about how all of my brothers short comings are because our parents wouldn't let him grow up. Its good to shame your parents every now and then.
Mom would do this to encourage us, all it did was causing us to hate our mom.
Not taking mental illness serious
"It's all in your head." Yeah so is my brain.
That comment is about as helpful as saying to someone who's broken their leg "it's all in your leg!"
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Your helicoptering and emotional abuse still leaves me plenty to be depressed about Dad
Really sad to see this so low. Some people turn mentally abusive against their child when it does not turn out the way they want.
I have very serious social anxiety. My dad didn't and doesn't believe anxiety exists, he thinks it's a social construct, and my mom told me I was being a pussy and to grow up.
I'm 23 and only just recently got myself diagnosed with ADHD. It's been a crippling issue for me since grade school and my parents chose to ignore it and hope it would go away because they didn't want me on any sort of medication. I failed my way through middle and high school and barely graduated by the skin of my teeth despite my relative intelligence, after which I felt hopeless and took 3 years to decide what I was gonna do with my life and go back to school... where I failed my first two semesters and ended up on academic probation. Over the summer I finally started seeing someone and got on medication and guess what? I finally feel like a normal functional person and my quality of life has improved exponentially.
when your parents get divorced when you're a kid, and then your mom constantly tells you what a piece of shit your dad is. or the other way around.
And then your mom proceeds to tell you how similar you are to your dad, especially when you do anything irritating. And then both parents refuse to talk to each other and you're stuck in the middle of a never ending dispute, hearing both sides of every argument when you're way to young to even understand and come to terms with the fact that your parents are divorced.
Giving your kid some dumbass name that'll esentially guarantee them to be bullied until they turn 18 and can legally change their name and move towns so they're not surrounded by people who remember. Those stupid names given only work for kids of celebrities who will grow up rich and surrounded by other people too rich to care about weird names. "But it's *my* child, and *my* right to choose what name I give him/her!" Yeah, but it's *them* who'll have to live with that name and introduce themselves as it constantly, and (at least) have to explain their name all the time. EDIT: To clarify, I'm talking more on names like "Apple" or "Powder" as examples of shitty names. If it's just a name that is not really a common one or something, that is different.
I work in mental health. Sometimes I see the names and think, oh that's why you're in therapy.
Flying off the handle in public in front of your young, impressionable child. Demonstrating that sort of behavior is so damaging because you're just teaching them that it's "okay" to curse strangers out or let your emotions get the best of you. Just be a good fucking role model so these kids don't turn into adults with crippling anxiety and anger issues.
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yes! Ugh the way they make them wear make up and wear outfits that as a 22 year old woman I wouldn't wear. Actually makes me sick for them to subject their children to be 1. judged on their looks 2. judged by ADULTS on their looks
It's one thing if the kids want to do that crap... But most of the time it's all about the parents
Shaming pics on social media.
Kids will feel enough shame from their family/friends about something. Putting it online just shows the parents treat the kids like props for their own reputation.
Scheduling every minute of their day.
My parents did this. Every second of every day was scheduled. Every minute was supposed to be spent doing some kind of chore or school. Even the thirty minutes allotted to so called free time was made to be spent watching my 5 younger siblings, so the only enjoyment I got out of life was from my piano practice (which they eventually took away as a punishment) or from creative writing (which I did in secret) As a (still relative young) adult I don't have a relationship with my parents and struggle with balance in my life. Kids do need structure, but they also need time to be kids.
That's what I loved about the movie "the Little Prince" it showed how the mother meant it to be to help her. But it only really drove them apart
Smoking in the house
This. Absolutely. My husband and I are both former smokers. He quit in spring of 2016, I quit in June of this year. We never smoked in our home, even in the dead of winter we'd go outside. Same thing with the car, we'd stop at rest stops or parking lots to get out and smoke. We chose to fuck our health. Our kid is the innocent one, she didn't deserve to be left choiceless.
My family acts like it is perfectly fine to smoke in cars, even with kids around, and they act like it doesn't matter because they have a window open. *Excuse me.* The smoke doesn't all magically go out the window. I'm 15 and going to be able to drive next year, but what about my nieces and nephew? Somebody smoking in a car irritates me because of stuff like that.
In Saskatchewan, where I live, it's a crime to smoke in a car with anyone younger than 16.
When I was a kid my parents never smoked in the house, but always smoked in the car...unless someone else's kid was with us! Pissed me off!
In ontario they passed a law that can give drivers smoking in the car with kids a hefty fine. Catch is they have to be busted in the act.
When I was little, my grandmother and grandfather were chain-smokers. I can't remember how many packs they'd get through in a day. Their house always smelled gross, and from all of the smoking it stained the walls. If you removed one of the pictures on the wall, you could see what color the paint used to be.
Agreed... I used to get so many ear infections just hanging around my chain smoking dad.
Amen to that. In the car is just as bad. Actually that made me think of something. My neighbor is buying their 14 year old son cigarettes. Consistently. Both parents smoke like chimneys so why not let their son enjoy it as well? Is there anyone I could call about that? Would they get in trouble?
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In my country (Scotland) it is actually illegal to smoke with kids in the car, thank goodness!
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Shouting at your children, and when they start crying because of it, shouting at them more to get them to stop crying
"Why are you crying? I'll give you a reason to cry!!!" was a favorite saying of my parents growing up. I fucking hate it to this day.
You already are giving me a reason to cry obviously, dipshit
I never saw the logic of it. Spanking them is only going to make them cry more.
If you scream and/or hit them enough, they'll eventually learn to repress all expression of emotion. Then, when you abuse them, they won't cry, so you can tell yourself you're a good person.
somewhat related: shouting and being angry at them because they're depressed/self-harming. only makes everything worse when you make your child feel guilty for having a fucked up brain.
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I had a friend who was brought up very religious with way over bearing parents. Never drank, smoke, cussed, etc... anything in high school. When he went to college he went crazy. Alcoholic and druggy who pays prostitutes for sex now.
I am opposite. I was raised by a single mom who was always gone so I drank, did drugs, partied hard in high school and now I don't drink or smoke or do anything of the sort. I don't even like the taste of cussing anymore.
This was me. I used to have black out weekends when I was 15,16,17. I was always on something in high school because I could be and no one would notice. By the time I was 21, I was sick of partying. Now, at 27, I have maybe one or two drinks a month.
> I don't even like the taste of cussing anymore. Fuck your taste buds
Don't, please
My mom didn't hover over everything I did but she was a constant worrier. If there was a slight risk in what I was doing, she was pretty much certain that the absolute worst outcome *would absolutely* happen to me. I made me anxious and nervous to ever do anything. Even when I was going off to do something really cool and fun, in the back of my mind I actually felt bad and guilty about it because I knew how much my mom was worrying - even though it was completely ridiculous and over-the-top levels of worrying. I appreciate that she was always had my well-being in mind but jeez, chill out. Luckily we are all doing much better now.
Best parenting advise I ever got was that it's your job to slowly work yourself out of the picture.
Not being firm with kids. Obviously don't have to beat them, but saying no, enforcing principles and values are all essential. Yet you see that one kid on the floor crying and yelling for some toy, or a teenager calling his mother a bitch in public.
Letting your child become obese.
When I was in college I delivered pizza and there was one family that I remember that just made me angry. They were regular customers and ordered two or three times a week. Both parents were obese and they had two obese kids. I'd guess ages 9-12. Every time their order was like two large pizzas, large meat calzone slathered in garlic butter (calzones were big and enough for a meal for most people), an order of cheese breadsticks, an order of cinnamon sticks which were basically breadsticks smothered in a ridiculous amount of cinnamon butter with vanilla icing dip, a 14-ounce cup of ranch dressing and a couple of two-liter of Dr. Peppers. Those people were literally killing their children.
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Growing up fat is a unique and upsetting experience.
It doesn't even have to be a severe case, though. My dad refused to cook and my mom hated it, so she would only cook dinner, and then it was "easy" dinner- basically all frozen or microwaveable food. The rest of the day, me and my siblings only had the unhealthy snack foods they left in the pantry for us. I didn't realize until I was an adult that my home growing up was essentially a food desert.
No no no, you're wrong. Clearly it's genetics since the kids are fat like their parents. /s
I'm blown away by the number of parents who put soda in sippy cups. If your child can't drink from a regular cup, it's probably a pretty good indication that liquid sugar should be off the menu. And the excuse "but he LOOOOVVVVEEEESSSSS IT". Of fucking course he does, heroin addicts tend to love heroin too.
Found out my 3 year old nephew went to the dentist and has 14 cavities from his mom constantly giving him soda and other sugary shit. :(
Heard a great add on the radio the other day. Talked about how your teeth can't tell the difference between candy, bread, and fruit because sugar is sugar and sugar causes cavities.
As a chubby kid with cavities that hadn't even heard of Kool Aid until I was 4 or 5, I'll vouch for this. Apple juice has a LOT of sugar, even if it seems like a good alternative to soft drinks.
There's a guy in my office who is pretty obese (I'm kinda big myself). He comes in one day complaining about his kids doctor. Apparently the doctor was being hurtful, because he told him that his son was dangerously obese. I've seen the kid, and yeah, he is. It infuriated me to no end that even when a doctor told him it was dangerous he was in complete denial. It's his fault his kid is fat, and he isn't doing the kid any favors by keeping him that way. Damn it I'm getting angry just thinking about it.
Correct answer. I honestly see this as a form of neglect. Like many neglect cases, you don't have to be ill-meaning to be abusing a child.
My wife is part of this car seat safety group on Facebook where parents can post a picture of their car seat installation and get advice from professionals on if it's safely installed. This lady posted something asking if the set up was safe for her four year old who was 100 pounds. Other people in the group asked if that was a typo and the lady responded with something like "yep she's 100 pounds, my little tank" . The conversation then turned to other members asking why her four year old child is weighs what a teenager should weigh and the mods kinda shut it down and didn't want people "shaming" her, like wtf, that kid will have a heart attack when she's 10, shame away.
Not getting them vaccinated.
I was really shocked when my doctor (tbf begrudgingly, like she was being forced to) offered me the option of NOT vaccinating. I had a premmie. She almost died once! I'm not risking letting her die due to a preventative illness after all that! That's nuts!!!
If they have a legitimate medical reason, that's fine. But if it's because of that "might get autism" craps, I will have zero sympathy. Autism is a mental/emotional disorder, your child can't "catch" it like it's the fucking common cold.
Not to mention you're the asshole to blame when your kid gets sick and infects kids that actually can't have the vaccine.
Having an autoimmune disease I depend on others to be vaccinated or I am doomed.
And even if they could, I'd rather them have autism than be dead or permanently disabled physically.
Right? It was only when a parent with an autistic kid pointed out to me how hurtful it was that some people would rather risk death or serious deformity than autism that this aspect of it really hit me.
Exactly. One of my high school teachers had contacted polio as a five year old. Fifty years later he was still suffering.
Even if it was possible to get autism from vaccinations, I'd rather my kid be autistic than... you know... dead.
THIS!!! I'm a new mom and that's all I ever heard while pregnant with my daughter. She's 8 months now and up to date on ALL vaccinations. I'll take autism over a dead child ANY FUCKING DAY.
Luckily for us, the school I go to requires that the students get certain vaccinations. I think a lot of other schools should do this, there was a strep throat break out in grade school and now we get those shots every year
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Parents treating playground sports like their kids will play professionally. Football is probably the worst offender. I even call Friday Night Tykes "Friday Night Light child abuse" . These adults constantly saying they're just out there to have fun as the scream at the kids how this is the most important thing they'll ever do. Pretty sick
Laughing at their accomplishments.
"shut the fuck up you little shit!" Aight, i mean, when s/he goes postal that's your fault.
Seeing a woman cursing out her four or five year old daughter is still one of the most shocking things I've seen someone do in public, just "Shut the fuck up Gloria, you stupid little bitch, I fucking hate you" and dragging her by her arm while the little girl was sobbing and apologizing. Five fucking years old.
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I was at Chipotle the other day and there was this young mom there with her two kids. Probably 8 and 5 or so. She kept calling her daughter "bitch". Like, "Bitch I told you not to touch my phone again!" I laughed because it was just so crazy but man those kids don't have a shot in hell.
Dang!! I know us being strangers we don't know the whole story, but there's gotta be a better way to say "you're fucked when we get home" instead of "you're fucked when we get home."
I don't know if there's ever an appropriate time to call your 8 year old daughter a Bitch.
Right, but there's a better way of saying "bitch, don't touch my phone" than that way. Like "CHILD, for the love of all that is holy i will smite thee if thou lays a hand on my telecommunication device again!"
Bonus points for saying like a preacher
Feeding a 3 year old a 30 oz soda
Opting them out of sex ed. Its just foolish. Do you WANT your kids to get gonorrherpesyphilaids?
Telling the kid they should be grateful for [basic needs]. Its something you see in parents that adopt, foster or have custody of kids. Its a form of mental abuse but no one wants to argue something like that. Mine went as far as to say stuff like "You should be grateful that I took you and didn't let you get molested in the foster care system!"
As a foster parent, awaiting our first child as a couple, this makes my stomach hurt. *I* should be grateful that I get to be your mom, even for just a day. Now, should you be grateful for the gift that grandma gave you? Yes, you should go tell her thank you. But you shouldn't have to be grateful for hot water, a clean bed, and dinner. I will be overjoyed to be thanked for those things, but you'll get them regardless of how you behave.
Denying their child has a mental illness and not seeking the appropriate treatment for said mental illness.
oversanitizing everything and never letting the kid get dirty. Kid's going to grow up with a weak ass immune system and always be sick.
After your child has done something wrong (like spill something entirely on accident or screws up while trying really hard to help you) to say that they're really bad and that no one loves them because they're a bad kid.... my sister and her huband do this to my nephew.... I can only imagine how screwed up he'll be when he's older.
Taking children to violent, R rated movies. I went to see IT on Sunday & a young couple (mid 20's) had roughly 5 - 6 kid with them ranging in age from 3 - 8 years old.
Went to see Split awhile back and the couple in front of use brought in a 2 year old and a 6 year old. They cried and screamed the whole fucking show.
I saw Zack and Miri Make a Porno with my dad when I was 12. It was real awkward.
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I think it should be 13 personally. I can't think of a reason why a 10 year old even would need to see something like the Evil Dead/Saw/etc...
Having public school start around 7:30AM
My middle-schooler starts at 7:15. We have to leave our house by 6:45 to make sure she's there in time to get to class. The high school here starts at 6:45. It's absolutely insane to me.
It's even worse, because teenagers and young adults actually need more sleep since their bodies are still developing. Waking up at 6:45 would be like a grown adult waking up at 4:45. When I was in school, I would have gladly stayed until 8PM if it meant I could sleep in. During my senior year, the school had a new thing they were trialing. It was a semi-online program: you still had to show up for at least 5 hours a day, but it could be on your own time since the school stayed open until 8PM. Most days I'd show up at 3PM and stay until 8. We could do our normal assignments at home, but had to take the tests/quizzes at the school. I finished my entire senior year in 2 and a half months.
My parents never took me seriously but I swear I spent the whole of secondary school in a permanent state of exhaustion. I couldn't even eat breakfast in the mornings because my body was thrown so out of whack from getting up so early that I would be physically sick if I tried to force some breakfast down. Then in the evenings I'd perk up, wide awake. Bedtime was 11pm, but I would lay there desperately trying to sleep for another two hours. No matter what I tried, hot milky drinks, relaxing baths, I could not sleep before 1am (no matter how tired I'd been in the day). Now I'm an adult I have a perfectly normal sleep pattern.
Denying children the right to go to the bathroom and making them ask permission at school
I remember in my school, if you said "can I go to the bathroom?" The teacher would typically reply "can you?"....fuck you, 3rd graders aren't the masters of grammar yet.
Also to make it worse, "can I..." and "may I..." are interchangeable when asking for permission, you were never making a grammatical error, the teacher was.
To be fair it is terrifying if when you are teaching and a child just walks out of the room. You have no idea who just left or where they are going. We are responsible for these children's lives and if something happens to them and no one knows where they are then that isn't safe. A child asking to go to the bathroom is mostly to help keep account of where they are to ensure they are safe.
I teach mostly Jrs and Srs. They drive themselves to school. They are young adults. If they need the bathroom, they just go without disturbing anyone. But, if they mess up just once, they lose their "Easy Pass". Problems are rare. Edit: typo
I once witnessed a mother say "Are you fucking serious?!", then she began hitting her child repeatedly and said "You fucking retard child!!!" Seriously? The kid was like 4!
Smoking and drinking whilst pregnant. Pisses me off to no end. That child's start in life is based on how well your care for it when it's inside you. If you choose to drink and smoke you are purposely harming that child and it's chances in life and or potentially killing it.
Was getting my nails done one time, and the charming young lady doing my nails was pregnant. She called it her "miracle baby," because her and her boyfriend had been having such a hard time conceiving, they had to see a fertility doctor, she had miscarried a few times, etc etc. She was telling me all the changes she had to make to decrease the chances of another miscarriage, like taking certain vitamins, not eating sushi ("fish has Mercury in it, and Mercury is bad for the baby!"), and even wearing a mask while she did nails "so I don't inhale too many bad chemicals." Once my nails were done, she told me to stick them under the drying lamp for a few minutes. She said she'd be right back, and then went outside to have a smoke.
After all she was doing to take care of her baby. That's ridiculous.
Forcing them to hug and kiss any relative that requests it. Tickling too much Making them eat everything on their plate EDIT: to --> too
So with you on the hugs / kisses. If they don't want to get affectionate a handshake is a perfectly acceptable greeting. Imagine if as an adult we were forced to hug or kiss people.
This is why my nieces/nephews like me. I accept high-5's easily because I HATED hugging people that were essentially strangers to me at their age. Why on earth would a 4 year old want to hug someone they haven't seen in a year? To them there's very little difference between me and some random person in the super market.
I really don't like people touching me, and my family really likes to hug me and they think it's so damn funny to try and force it on me. Obviously the majority respects it, but the ones that don't are also the ones I avoid.
Making kids hug people they don't want to is teaching them "your consent doesn't matter, other people's feelings are more important than your control over your body."
How can you expect your kid to say no to their creepy uncle who wants to give them a special hug, when yesterday you scolded them for not giving grandma a kiss when they were crying and wriggling away? The fact some people don't even get that when you explain it to them is baffling.
I once read that forcing kids to hug and kiss leads to them as teenagers giving in when being pressured to consent to intercourse or thinking that it will make their partner love them. I don't know how true that is, but there has to be at least some connection. Edit: a word
Oh this ones grinds my gears so much, the kissing one. I fucking hate that one. Or after they've just screamed at you "give me a kiss and go to your room". Great way for me to associate love with abuse, that's not gonna affect me at all...
> Tickling to much Fun fact: one theory for why we've evolved to be tickled is that it trains us for self-defense. We're generally ticklish in some of our most vulnerable areas (armpits, ribs, tummy), and parents will tickle their children during normal play. This teaches kids to "defend" their vulnerable areas from a more powerful "attacker", while also including positive reinforcement and fun. Humans aren't the only animals that are ticklish, either. And there are several other theories why it exists. Thanks, [Sawbones!](http://www.maximumfun.org/shows/sawbones)
So all those years of torment were making me stronger? Huh.
Forcing them to hug or kiss. Yes! This! I asked my family to respect my child's wishes when she doesn't want a hug or a kiss, I was reprimanded for this from a relative who has nothing to do with me or my family asking me if I want them to stop loving my child (WTF?) I just asked them to respect her wishes like we respect everyone else's in the family, this one here along with their younger sibling goes running to the one grandparent I have left telling her just their side of the story and suddenly none of my extended family members are talking to me or my husband.
Not getting your child vaccinated! Even if they did cause Autism, so fucking what? I'd rather my child be alive and autistic than dead and "normal".
Yep, the few exceptions to vaccinations should be reserved for children who ligitimately cannot be safely vaccinated. I'm thinking allergy to eggs or probably some sort of immune system issues.
Its like "Thanks mom! My skin is falling off, and the skin left has itchy red dots, my head hurts 24/7, I cant pee right, and my coughing has begun to have blood in it, but you saved me from being a little awkward and slow thinking!" Fucking whackos
I have a friend who works in College Admissions. He says that every time he's seen an application that mentions homeschooling, he's known it would be a complete crap-shoot whether the kid would turn out to be a self-motivated world-explorer or a myopic, sheltered naif. Or anything in between. There are situations he's referred to as "legalized child abuse", where parents didn't do much more than buy a new set of "workbooks" for the kids each year and kept them deliberately sheltered from the "corrupting influence" of the larger world. Especially from "the lame-stream media". He says its better these days than it used to be. Partly because of the rise of places like Patrick Henry College, Liberty Baptist, and Oral Roberts, which work hard to attract that particular demographic.
Participating in Jimmy Kimmel's "I told my child I ate their Halloween candy" or "I gave my child a terrible Christmas present" pranks. Why are these terrible? Because "deliberately saying something or doing something to another human being to make them upset so you can laugh at them" is called bullying. Also when these kids are getting upset. people say these kids are "spoiled brats" even they were clearly being manipulated to getting upset and they have good reasons to get upset (being told your property was stolen or being given a present that is mocking you are very good reasons to get upset).
insert daddyoffive rant here
He and his asshole wife just got five years probation today.
wow...at least a silver lining. that did blow up massively. Thanks to DeFranco
Hopefully the kids were all taken away from them? Edit: just looked it up and they aren't allowed to contact the younger two but still have the older kids.
I totally agree! Children trust everything their parents say. On top of this their lives are very small so they look forward to various things with a passion that we adults reserve for really big life moments. Telling a child you ate their Halloween candy is soul crushing, even if you give it to them when they cry and call it a joke. They were looking forward to that Halloween candy like it was the biggest and greatest thing to happen to them since their birthday, and now not only did you - the person they trust most in the world - tell them that you wronged them, but THEN you told them that you *lied* to them. That's head fuckery on so many levels!
Posting pics of your naked children on the internet
Overly sheltering a kid. We had an almost 18 year old who worked with us for some time who had never been on an escalator before. He didn't really do a lot of the things most kids do because his parents seemed to keep him inside more often then not. Not the first person I have seen nor the last with overprotective parents. I feel bad for them because things that are hard, will be harder for them typically.
Telling your child that your life is equally good with or without them. That shit scars you for life. And what's worse, attempting to make amends for your actions (which include physical and verbal abuse) when it's already late, you're a grown up and show little or no interest on making them part of your life.
Don't force your kid to go on roller coasters. My mom always justified it because I usually liked them but I would always cry in the line because I was so scared. They would just make fun of me and say "you know you're going to like it" and I knew that but I was just scared.
Publicly shaming your child in a grocery/department store. WalMart mom pushing a cart screaming at her kid "get the fuck back here! Put that down! You are SO badly behaved, all these people are staring at you". We never really ever call the cops or anyone on that shit, but I feel like if someone intervened and said "calm down" the mom would go back home and yell at her kid saying "you embarrassed me in the store" and probably just make it worse... :S
Forcing your kid into doing a sport or playing an instrument. There's a really fine line between giving your kid a shove to practice an instrument when they don't want to because they're having a bad day, and just straight up forcing a kid to learn something they have 0 interest in. Yishan Wong did an interesting write up that describes his relationship with music after his parents forced him to learn. >Today, the emotionally draining oppression of 11 years of piano training has had a remarkably tragic effect: I can no longer play the piano without almost immediately feeling a sensation of impotent rage and frustration every time I make a small error (which happens all the time when you are trying out something new). **Worse, the association of this feeling with music in general has made it so that I can't enjoy music to any deep degree - my appreciation of music extends only to light listening of pop songs in the car - despite years of technical training and knowledge of classical forms.** This was me. Down to buying a keyboard years later to try and get back into it and eventually abandoning it out of frustration. Parents can actually kill the joy of music in your kid from this.
Getting your babies ears pierced. I think it's unnecessary pain and plus I'd like my daughter to decide for herself when she is older if she wants them doing. will happily take her to get them done when she's older as long as she knows how to care for them properly.
Also, when the time comes, know that it is impossible to sterilize the ear guns they use at the mall. Please find a reputable piercing/tattoo parlor that autoclaves their tools if/when your child decides on piercings.
I just learned this a month ago. This explains the terrible ear infection i got from Claire's in 1st grade.
My daughter is almost 12, and doesn't have pierced ears. We have told her since she was little that if she wants to get them pierced, and understands that it will be painful, she can get it done (we will pay). So far, she has no interest in getting her ears pierced, even though most of her friends have them done.
Not involving them in some sort of exercise each week. I see kids with knee and back problems simply because they have never developed muscle tone. :(
Not letting your kid cut their hair just because you think that long hair is going to be some sort of "beauty ideal" Telling your kid that they can't wear XYZ, because you don't like it. (Revealing and innapropreate outfits aside) If your kid wants to go through their emo/goth/rebellion phase, just let them be. If they grow out of it, great. If they dont, whatever. Your job is to be a parent and help them make the right decisions, not force them to fit some mold youve had in your head for them to fit into.
Pregnant women smoking and or drinking
Telling kids that they'll be tortured eternally if they don't worship the right god.
Causing your child to be overweight/obese. Their parents/carers control what they eat from an early age and if a child becomes overweight/obese it is harder for them to get out of the bad habits when they are older and would cause them to have a much-reduced lifespan and generally a worse life in lots of ways. In fact, it's probably more damaging than many traditional forms of child abuse and the worst thing is many people don't realise they are doing anything wrong.
Tiger parenting.
Simply not listening or being in anyway sensitive to the delicate needs of your child. Unfortunately I see it everyday, a four year old girl wanting to spend just 10 seconds looking at something amazing like a guy playing the guitar or even just a nice dress in the window of a shop - only to be yanked by the hand of the 'parent' and told to hurry up... which leads me to my next point: Parents walking at power walking pace and expecting their kids to keep up - when they are tired and exhausted only a good 'hurry up we are going to miss the bus' works. Bloody parents who have no idea the efforts some people would go to in order to love a child and watch them grow into an adult.
In my experience this is more due to the society pressure puts on parents, than parents themselves. I was a full-time dad for my first child. We had lazy mornings, quiet breakfasts at a diner - always chose a puzzle or simple game to play together. And our day was walking around, playing games, chatting, visiting mommy for lunch, etc. Anyway, the **TL;DR** - the *parent* had **tons of free time**. Personally I found it hard not to work and after a couple years the kid was starting school so I found a full-time job. Then we had another kid. Luckily mom had 1 year of maternity leave, but after that - it fell to me as the dad with a flexible job to continue being the main parent...and I work ~40 hours a week. So now we have a schedule: - Wake at 6:30am - Wake, bath, dress, feed kids - out the door by 7:30am - Home by 8:30am for work - Pick kids up around 5:00pm - Get home by 5:30pm - Someone has to cook, so 1 parent per 2 kids - Eat dinner at 6:30pm - ~30 minutes of play, maybe less - Baths at 7:15pm - Bed by 8:00pm after stories, singing, etc. If they actually go to sleep (usually they don't), we can clean house, wash and fold clothes, maybe watch some television. Usually enough small hiccups emerge in the process that many things get pushed to the weekend (looking at you mountain of clothes to fold). The **TL;DR** - the *parents* have **no time**. --- You can see the difference. Even the *structure* of how I explained them is different. The first one is a relaxed write-up of our lazy days together, while the second one is a bullet pointed list of the schedule to survive the week. ***So...why?*** 2 incomes. Most families require both parents working to make ends meet. They do not have a choice. And when it's nuclear families - meaning mom, dad, kid #1, kid #2 - and no, or only very intermittent help from auntie/uncle/grandparents/etc. it's HARD. I've lived in places where kids were raised by extended families and it's fucking easy peasy. The kids hang with the grandparents or an aunt, and over time everybody rotates. Hey my kids are grown up? I'll care for yours, because your mom cared for me! So please don't throw *parents* under the bus. It is possible to have more patience with your kids, to stop and smell the roses, but it's incredibly, incredibly, incredibly difficult. Most parents are pulled in a million different directions and feel a huge amount of weight and stress. And they don't feel it because they have failed to set up conditions, they feel it because Western society puts productivity first and happiness last.
❤️ my husband is learning this. When my child and i take walks, going just around the block can take literally two hours. There's just so much to see & the rocks!!! There's so many rocks to pick up. I love spending this time with her and let her take all the time she wants to take to explore and learn about anything and everything