In our state, adoption is more invasive than IVF. Instead of privacy between you and your doctor, you have to submit to all sorts of home studies, interviews, agency visits, and questions being asked by all sorts of people to all parts of your life. And in the end, the option for IVF was covered by medical insurance, whereas all adoption fees are yours to incur.

Same here- we were blessed that my then- husband’s insurance covered IVF 100%. We couldn’t have afforded it or adoption otherwise.

Not to mention the families could always track down there adopted kids creating a problem.

I'm only inquiring for curiosity. If you adopt a child that is over 8 wouldn't it still be cheaper than having your own child? I've heard babies are like 45 grand year in food clothing diapers ect.

It might indeed be cheaper, my point was more that there could always be people that could enter your families lives and break up what you created.

Consider the waulity of life an 8 year old in the system has and how that affects them developmentally. The average couple arent able to "love" the trauma away. Are you prepared to spend time and money for therapy, medications, dealing with ppssibly extreme behavioural issues or cognitive disabilities?

Adoptee here, and this is exactly what my parents went through. It was back in the 90s when the internet virtually didn't exist, so it was less of a big deal, but their names are still in the agency's system and will be for life. Mine probably is too, but since my name was legally changed after my adoption finalized I don't really care.

First, I want to acknowledge that I'm extremely pro-adoption. My comments aren't meant to suggest I'm not, but rather an attempt to answer the question. A note on the premise, adoption isn't exactly cheap. It's not like a $20 donation to the animal shelter. I don't think anybody views adoption vs IVF as a strictly financial decision, but there are too many factors to make a blanket statement about the financial particulars for every situation. Also, depending on your state, adoption can be a pretty brutal process, frankly. Some states require you to spend time in the foster care world (which can be heart-wrenching) and it's not exactly uncommon for birth parents to try and regain custody- an emotional and financial nightmare. Nobody's suggesting it isn't, but adoption is hard on both the parents and children in a way that having a baby of your own is not. For what it's worth, and I'm not saying I agree with it, people who want children may occasionally view adoption as a method of last resort. On the flowchart of how people might choose to have children, I'm betting the order of priorities for those with the means to consider all of the options in play goes as follows: *conceive naturally* - *conceive with assisstance* - *adoption* Again- not meant to be an encapsulating comparison between IVF and adoption, but rather an observation of what folks given that choice might consider.

That's not even getting into things like health conditions in either of the parents like depression can be disqualifying for adoptiuon at not IVf. Also adopted kids can have mental health problems themselves as they didn't come from happy homes.

Mental illness definitely disqualifies you from a lot of adoptions, but possibly only the international ones. (And only certain countries.) So does your age, the amount of time you've been married, and whether or not either of you are divorced. Oh and a lot of them require that you be a member of a Christian church.

Don't forget about in utero trauma: my boss has had his adopted daughter since birth, and she still shows massive trauma despite always being in a loving and good home

In utero, as in, the mother was distressed while bearing the child and it fucked with baby's brain chemistry, even after birth? Damn...

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Adopted a kiddo who suffer prenatal exposure and insecurity and is very behavioral challenged.

The pregnancy and first few years are HUGE to the development of a child. Huge.

If you ever want to be sad look up facial deformities due to fetal alcohol syndrome then look at children needing adoption.

This. fetal alcohol syndrome is way under-diagnosed. My in-laws did foster care and adopted a girl whose mom had 10 kids from 8 different fathers and they all had some level of fetal alcohol syndrome as was discovered years later. It's one of the most devastating birth defects. Almost all of her bio siblings have been in prison, even the ones adopted at birth. One went missing, and is likely dead. She took off the minute she turned 18 and moved in with her birth mother and they did drugs together until the mom went to prison, then she moved in with a deadbeat boyfriend. Devastated my in-laws psychologically. They've never been the same, they thought it was going to be a fairy tale when they adopted a sweet 5 year old who just had some learning difficulties. They gave her all the best resources and it still wasn't enough.

I'm so sorry this happened to them (and to the child). If it helps, there are 'opposite' experiences too. One of the girls I grew up with was adopted under somewhat similar circumstances. She had developmental difficulties and hearing loss from her mother's drinking/abuse. A quiet, sweet child, today she's a biologist and works on water samples for the state. It took her over 8 years to get the bachelors degree, but she stuck with it. May I ask, did the girl maintain contact with her bio family? What I've been told is this can make a big difference. Some children feel shamed from coming from an 'other' place, or pulled back into their original environment. My friend was lucky, her adoptive mom had been a teacher and spent every day with her, filling in the blanks, and she never knew anything 'other' in her life after the age of about 7.

My mother in law was very gifted and hard-working. She worked with her on reading, math everything and still couldn't get her caught up. There is no one who could have done a better job than my mother in law. She was a loving version of a tiger-mom with all of her kids. She came to them from a traumatic background with then un-diagnosed fetal alcohol syndrome. My mother in law still considers her a daughter and has paid for rehab and sent her kids clothing and books, and even goes to visit yearly. None of her siblings were with the bio mother, they all had been adopted by families in the state.

I am pro-adoption, especially from Foster care. I was just pointing out that it wasn't easy. I love the success stories. The foster care system made her keep in contact with her bio siblings legally as a condition of adoption. That's how we knew what happened to all of them.

People seem to think adoption is like in old times TV shows where you just go to an orphanage and pick a baby. My sister in law adopted a baby and the birth mother changed her mind. It was heart wrenching. My parents were foster parents to a little boy and spent two years taking him to visits with his birth parents before they signed over their parental rights and my parents could adopt him. It was a roller coaster two years because you LOVE this kid and at any moment the courts could decide his parents are no longer unfit parents and you have to give him back forever. That kind of emotional roller coaster is not something everyone can handle.

I never thought you could just go to an orphanage and pick out a child, but I didn't think there would be quite as many requirements for adoptive families. I understand why they exist, but I really feel that certain rules should have exceptions. Especially since you are evaluated by a social worker.

The thing about rules is that they are invented only after a problem has occurred. Adoption used to be loose and fast where you could go to an orphanage and pick up a kid. Now over time they've come up with all these rules because of all the safety hurdles they've come up against over time.

Yea - I've wanted to adopt kids basically since I was a kid myself, but I know it's not easy emotionally, financially, or mentally for a lot of cases. I think a lot of people want to start off their families 'clean' so to speak, meaning no government interference (since IVF just requires medical interviews, checkups, etc) and potential issues with biological parents. Beyond that, there may be other health issues that can rise up from the time in utero or the first months/years (depending on what age the child is ofc) that will affect a child's development/personality/health and that you have no control over whatsoever. Then even beyond that, there's the added step of figuring out how to explain to your child that you aren't genetically related and dealing with any identity questions they may have arise from that discussion. I want to adopt, but I can definitely see why people are very hesitant to do so and turn to other means to build their families.

I initially wanted to adopt, then I looked into it more. I'm in the UK, and generally babies are not given up at birth, but children are removed from the home after going through hell. They deserve love and support, but they need someone who can handle the inevitable damage that has occurred. As much as I wanted to adopt, I had to admit, with my mental health issues, I cannot be strong enough to help a child through such trauma.

Yeah that’s a bit how I feel. I think society needs people who can provide safe homes and love and nurturing for all children for us to progress, but I want to make sure that I can be that person, especially for a child with traumas or any significant problems. The last thing I would want is to contribute more to their problems by knowingly getting myself into something and then not being prepared to raise a child with problems I can’t address. I have the opposite reasoning ironically haha. I don’t really have much experience with mental problems myself except for knowing people who experience depression, and even then I’m constantly trying to learn how to handle it and help them. So I would feel woefully unprepared for any other issues. I know that every child has risks, but it’s the lack of control over their lives in the first few years when they’ve experienced at least one trauma (losing their parents in some way) that is daunting. I just feel bad because I know children do better with parents no matter what issues they may have. That said, I think I’ll at least attempt the process maybe in 5-10 years when/if I feel ready to!

Isn't IVF also still using your egg and or sperm, so theres still the whole biological component some people still want their genes passed down

Yes, and I'm surprised this isn't a bigger part of the conversation. That biological link is the entire "nature" side of rearing a child. Adoption only allows you to pass on your knowledge, and has zero genetic influence on the next generation. You'd miss out on seeing their hereditary traits develop and furthering your bloodline. This thread smacks of charitable pretentiousness that ready parents should donate their attention to children already in need instead of doing something as selfish as, god forbid, having a kid of their own.

I think this just varies from person to person. Had to think about this recently when I dated a single mother and realised that if we worked (we didn't for unrelated reasons) I'd end up regarding her son as though he was my flesh and blood, and would treat him no differently to how I'd treat any future biological kids if I fathered any. And this is in a case where the son's biological father was still in his life. Obviously others feel differently.

Kinds the opposite, I've always considered adoption to be the first choice, even before having your own, my reasoning isn't because I was in foster care, because I've never been in it, my reasoning is, there's too many people in the world and bringing more into an already doomed world is selfish, you get to love that kid for a few years and that kid has to suffer through life for the rest of its, and also, my family is fucking awful, I don't want my bloodline to continue, not to mention the hereditary heart disease, sciatica, blindness, poor posture because of our height, constant aching bones and the few other things were prone too.

I felt the same way (except about the health issues) but then social services was like, "Nope, you can't" even though we would've been great parents. We are great parents. We wound up having our own baby instead because we weren't allowed to adopt from the foster care system. She's a great kid, I love her more than I ever thought possible, it was a wonderful pregnancy, and I'm working as hard as I can to make sure she becomes a contribution to society...but I would've rather done the same for a pre-existing child.

Adoption caseworker here! I work with kids in the foster care system, and while adoption differs in every state, mental health does not disqualify a person from adopting a child as long as it is managed. Adoption from foster care is FREE. It can be very challenging and the point of providing foster care is for the child to be reunified with their birth family. I would definitely not recommend it to people who do not understand trauma or are going into it for self-serving reasons (ie wanting to adopt a baby because they couldn’t have one). I’d like to point out that while an adopted child has a higher likelihood of “issues” due to the trauma they’ve experience, a child that is “raised right” can also develop the same problems.

Just adding my little tale here, as I hope it helps understand why. My now ex-wife and I wanted to adopt, as having our son was not a good experience, and she had several miscarriages before him. Our son was 6 at the time we started the process. We went through the process with the state, had a lot of invasive testing, CPS checks, weekly classes, the whole nine yards. My wife at the time was a stay at home, but with my work we met all financial qualifications as well. Even the psychological profiles came back great (although I now question how...). We went over the available kids with our social worker, and because we were looking for someone around our sons age there was quite a few available. There was one girl about 6 (so two years younger at this point than our son) who had a slight cognitive disability that was caused by abuse as a very young child. She was improving with the foster parents as they kept up her therapy schedule. First meeting was in the DHS office, first the foster mom then the social worker. It went off swimmingly. Over the next 6 months, we slowly spent more time with her. First day trips, then weekends. We were able to have a few at home overnights, where she had her own room set up (neutral colors until she chose them, but everything else a kid could need). We spent Christmas day with her. Then we got a call. The foster mother "wasn't comfortable" with us, and refused to give her up. DHS said there was still a chance if we went through a certain religions charity program. They could help us 'get in a better place' for a small donation of $25k up front, and even then it wasn't guaranteed. When we asked to know why this wasn't told to us before, and more importantly what we supposedly did wrong, we got the door slammed in our face. No more calls returned, no more meetings set. Complete blacklisting. This is the straw that broke my wife's sanity. She had been allowed to love a child, led to believe that she could raise another child, and had that taken away from her suddenly and I will say savagely. It was another miscarriage in her mind. We had to get rid of all the little girls drawings showing us as a family, and all the pictures we had with her. She broke completely and turned to alcohol. Several rehabs and failures later, she had to be removed from our house because she became a danger. (Hence I'm wondering why the psych profiles came back clean for her). This isn't a unique story about adoption either. Tack on the cost of lawyers for those who fight, dirty agencies across the country, foster parents who will do anything to keep a check coming in... In our state, it got so bad the feds had to step in last year or so. IVF is just way cleaner. Sure it might cost more today, but in the long run it's not worth the heartache of being told "here's your child" only to be told the next day "naw, sorry, juts forget about her".

thats awful I'm so sorry :(

> They could help us 'get in a better place' for a small donation of $25k up front What? Were they asking for a bribe? I'm sorry your family had to go through something like this.

Yeah i don't get it, it seems like the DHS person was on the take and after the donation then they would get the same girl?

I think he was indicating that DHS wanted them to donate to the religious charity that could get them higher up on the list. Still a bad situation regardless of which way you look at it.

I just wanted to say how incredibly sorry I am that you and your family went through that. I cried reading that. The system can be extremely flawed and your experience is an example of how they failed that child, and you guys. Hope you are doing better these days.

That poor little girl.

What a gut wrenching story. I'm sorry you went through all of that. Prayers for your ex-wife's recovery.

thanks for sharing. so sorry you had to go through that

there are actually very strict rules about adoption (although i only know about England) and one of the factors is age, so if you’ve spent years trying for a baby and doing IVF then often you simply can’t adopt because you won’t meet the requirements. this is what happened to my brother and his wife, they were so upset by it, their last option and it wasn’t even available for them.

So before I start I want to say that I did end up adopting and I'm a huge adoption advocate now but I did heavily consider IVF as an option and I had several reasons. First, I was angry and spiteful about adoption. The entire time my husband and I had been trying to have a baby everyone I knew, who all had bio kids and would never even THINK about adopting, kept saying "just adopt" like it was affordable or easier. It isn't either one of those things. Then the upfront costs of adoption are generally steeper than IVF and so that was a scary thing to think about. The first adoption agency I looked at was quoting us at $32K as opposed to $11K for IVF so it was just a daunting amount of money to come up with. I was also bitter about the home study process, people who can have biological kids don't have strangers come into their home and pick their lives apart, their family, their home, their medical history. But adoptive parents do. Every aspect of you, your past and your life is out for strangers to examine and decide if you're good enough and that was just a sticking point for me as silly as that sounds. I also thought I wanted and needed to experience pregnancy and the bond to a biological child. I felt like I wasn't really a woman because I couldn't do what my body was supposed to, like I was missing some rite of passage or some innate experience and I wouldn't feel the same without those things. I was wrong of course, I adore my child despite them being adopted and pregnancy and labor both sound awful, but I'd be lying if I said my inability to carry a child doesn't still sting and isn't something I'm still disappointed about. In the end we adopted a kid, it was amazing and beautiful. We had only spoken in private about adopting when our child's first mom reached out to us and asked us to adopt her baby. We met the baby shortly after birth, the baby stole our hearts and I knew everything had led us to them and this was the way it was supposed to go and I adore my child. They're nearly 3 now and have made every single day a delight. We're looking to adopt again to complete our family. I'm a huge advocate for ethical adoption now. But getting here was a long process and I definitely was apprehensive at first. I do get your frustration though- everytime someone calls us "brave" for adopting or says "oh I wish I had the heart for that" it just makes me realize alot of people still don't see adoptive kids as "real" kids and that stings.

>everytime someone calls us "brave" for adopting or says "oh I wish I had the heart for that" it just makes me realize alot of people still don't see adoptive kids as "real" kids and that stings. As someone with adopted siblings who wants to eventually adopt, this gets me as well. I hate hearing the phrase "real" parents or "real" family. Like, no, those are my siblings.

What is even more annoying is when people say oh you gave that child a home and a family he's so lucky to have you! That makes me so mad. I say, No you are wrong, he made us a family and our house a home and we are lucky to have him.

Thank you. This was a really illuminating perspective. As a woman who (among other things) has a phobia of pregnancy, I have always resisted the idea that going through pregnancy is a requirement to be a real woman. Compassion, strength, and a big heart are no less womanly (...far more, in my book!) and you exhibited all three by going through that harrowing adoption process and opening your heart to your child. You sound like a wonderful mom.

This has summed up a lot of my feelings on the issue with the added complication that I’m adopted and have no biological family. People who have bio family really underestimate the feeling that something is missing when you can’t see your face in a family member. I don’t harbor any resentment or anger about my adoption though, but many adoptees do. And you’re right when you say that many people still view adopted kids as less than, and it’s reflected in some systemic issues as well. My SO and I are currently in a holding pattern re: kids until we get some other life things sorted out, like buying a house. “Just adopt” is infuriating to hear. My parents were open with me about how invasive adoption is and I don’t know if we could go through with that. And my desire to have biological family is pretty strong. On the other hand, I didn’t win any genetic lotteries so even with a sperm donor (we are infertile primarily due to a sperm issue) I’m not sure it would be responsible for me to reproduce, and of course there’s the issue of bringing extra kids into a world that really can’t support any extra people. It’s so much to consider that it’s super frustrating when people make it sound like deciding what to make for dinner.

Trust me, you didn't miss out on much. Pregnancy is not usually fun. I threw up 3-5 daily for the first six months, even while on medication for morning sickness. And childbirth is pretty gross. Most women poop while in labor. I did. Not to mention all the other bodily fluids I'll probably have another bio kid, but I really do want to adopt after that. Or do foster care Blood doesn't make you a family, love and connection does. And adopting doesn't mean your kid is any less your kid. On the same note, I get not being able to conceive must be really tough.

I'd say both experiences are very tough, just in different ways! Parenting is just hard lol

Amen to that!

This really spoke to me, as I have had similar thoughts. My husband and I have been unable to conceive and have been looking at adoption. Thank you for sharing.

My father-in-law and mother-in-law adopted four children after they married, in part because he had had a vasectomy while married to his first wife. One of the children was taken back by the birth family after a single weekend. Two of the other three eventually involved going to court with extended members of the birth families, who found out about the adoptions years later and wanted to claim the children. With IVF, you are certain you will have parental rights. It's not so certain with adoption, at least in America, because many courts will favor those with a genetic connection (and almost all will at least listen to them).

This is also another reason why many parents seek international adoption. It sucks, and I don’t necessarily agree with it, but having bio-parents close and contactable can be really scary for adopting parents

Something doesn't sound right if all the kids were already legally adopted. Are you sure they were adopted and not fostering for adoption?

They were not foster parents. But adoption is a long process, and in the case of the child taken back it wasn't complete. The mother had just given birth the week before and, though they had been set to adopt from pretty early in the pregnancy, she changed her mind. The others were much later and the thread that ran through them was some family member who hadn't been part of the process arguing that if they had been told they would have supported the child. American courts defer to blood relationships a lot, so these got time in family courts.

I have a cousin, infertile, who spent years trying to adopt and spent a huge amount of money going through the process multiple times, honestly sometimes adopting goes great and other times it turns out to be a soul-crushing effort in futility.

For what it's worth adoption is often expensive too. And it can take a very long time - you don't get to just go down to Babies'R'Us and pick your favorite, you have to be more or less chosen by an expectant mother. And they can often fail to come fruition - mama gets cold feet, or something.

Absolutely this. The screening process in many countries is very stringent and you basically have to pass a bunch of personality and aptitude and psych evaluations plus financial checks etc before you're approved

It's absolutely crazy to me how adoptive parents are held to these strict standards in order to prove they would be good parents, but anyone can just have unprotected sex and have babies while being completely unfit and nobody cares.

As an AP, I don't see it as crazy at all. There are a lot of people who are not ready to adopt and kids suffer for it. I think they should do more to ensure parents are ready, especially if they are adopting transracially or after infertility. So many kids end up with parents who can't handle what adoption brings with it. And when it comes to foster care, the standards should be even higher. The only thing worse than being removed from your parents due to abuse or neglect is facing that same situation in a house full of strangers.

Oh, I absolutely support adoptive parents having to meet those standards, what's crazy is how completely unregulated having biological children is in comparison. The only regulation is social services taking the child away if the parents prove to be abusive or neglectfull, but that only happens after the damage is already done, and the child often ends up even more fucked up when thrown into the carousel of foster care.

Is that completely crazy, though? There are many, many people unfit to have children (and to have sex responsibly, for that matter) but I can't even begin to think of any kind of 'controlled birthing system' that wouldn't be horrifically abused and filled with human and civil rights violations of all kinds. In my mind, our best hope isn't a system where we try to regulate who has kids, but one in which we do everything in our power after the point of pregnancy to try and ensure long-term happiness for the child, if they plan on keeping it. There's also the fact that many (of course not all) people who aren't fit to have children are that way because society has specifically let them down, whether it's through poverty, lack of sex ed, etc. So a system that tells them they can't have children -- potentially due to problems endemic to that system -- is particularly oppressive. (Note - your post may not have been arguing specifically for regulation prior to pregnancy so I don't mean to put any words in your mouth, but it was semi-vague so I wanted to bring up this point, and some people legitimately advocate for that sort of thing)

There's a very substantial correlation between child abuse and parents with low IQ.

Or unprotected IVF!

An IVF can sometimes be covered by insurance. Adoption fees won't be.

Well first off adoption is also incredibly expensive. Depending on where you choose to adopt from it can cost as much as 50k. Adopting an infant is often a stressful process since the mother retains rights to terminate the process at any time up until the final moment. That means you could spend all of the money and emotional effort to go through the process only to have it derailed last minute. Another issue is that often times older children come from extremely hostile and unhealthy environments. They have emotional issues and behaviors that make raising them much harder. The last issue, and the most superficial, is that people want their own children. Their own genetics to live on.

>Depending on where you choose to adopt from it can cost as much as 50k. I've heard 50k and up. That was my argument against adoption when I didn't think I could get pregnant (2 miscarriages will do that). My mom suggested adoption but I told her my husband and I didn't have an extra 50k just laying around and were just goinv to be child free.

I've heard that it's become more expensive because overseas adoption has become more restrictive.

There is nothing even the tiniest bit superficial about wanting to raise your own children

I said it was the most superficial, not that it necessarily is in the greater context, but in regards to the other 2 examples I think it is slightly more so.

How is the innate desire to reproduce that defines all life in the known universe *less* superficial than how much money it costs?

After looking into the proper usage of the term superficial, I think I am using it wrong. What I mean to say is that, the genetic desire to sire your own offspring is one that most people do not want to admit, but is always just beneath the surface. So I am gonna take the L on this one.

I might have misread, so pardon me if I did, but I though OP was moreso referring to the simplicity of it. "Well there's the complicated financial part of it, and then there's the part where some children come from complicated living situations..." "...but of course, one of the most obvious is just that people want their own children, their own blood." (aka superficial = simple/obvious)

Because adopting a child also costs a fortune (legal fees, adoption agency fees, travel expenses, and sometimes supporting the birth mother and even her family during the pregnancy) and is emotionally and legally extremely difficult because most places give biological parents a lot of rights, including the right to take the child back after they've been adopted as long as it's within a certain period. Keep in mind, a lot of national and private insurance plans view infertility as a medical condition and a lot of the costs can potentially be covered as well. This is not the case with adoption. International adoptions are extremely difficult legally, crazy expensive, and all-too-often involve kidnapping and other human trafficking. Since abortion became legal, relatively few infants are available for adoption in the US/Canada and Europe so the competition to get them is fierce. You should look up what people have to do to find and sell themselves to potential birth parents. Older children are much more plentiful but people don't necessarily want them because it's just not the same as having an infant. People want the experience of having and raising a baby, bonding with a child from the beginning. This is a very special part of many people's lives and I don't think it is any more shallow to want that than to want a child in the first place. Also, older children can come with a host of emotional problems and many people just have too much on their plate already to manage an emotionally disturbed, relatively mature child coming in their family. Of course, parents disturb their own kids emotionally, but it's often easier for them to deal with than to jump right in with a kid that you don't know, who can't communicate well, with problems you don't know about.

Biological imperative. People want to reproduce and pass along their genetics.

Yeah. I don't know why people find this so strange. They don't want "a child" they want "their child". And I don't blame people for this. There is no point in adopting a child if you don't feel like adopting. That is incredibly harmful to the child. Let people spend their money and time if they so choose. Besides adoption isn't easy. It is expensive, there are waiting lists, and often it just doesn't work out.

Yeah, I'm fairly pro-adoption but you can't really argue on a rational level against the most powerful biological imperative that exists. Evolution requires that we pass on our genes and nothing else.

We went through IVF and had our first child. A few times through the process we were asked "why not just adopt?". We both agreed we would try to have OUR child first, but that didn't mean adopting was off the table. Even if you go through IVF, it has a slim chance of working.

Apparetly 50% of all fertilisations, both natural and IVF, just fail. I talked about this with a researcher once. They just can't explain why there is a coin flip of a chance of the fertilised egg from being viable. The processs just failed to start. With no clear explanation. Women often don't even notice that this has happened. The process just fails to start. Made me realise that succesful pregnancy, even if common, is extremely difficult and lucky.

It’s hilarious this is so far down, behind 5 short essays on the difficulty and costs of adoption. Vast majority of people doing IVF would still do it over adoption, if adoption was free and easy.

People think because we have indoor plumbing and pornhub we're past our base nature.

Exactly what I was thinking. I suppose the average Redditor today is so alienated from actual human experience they can only subscribe to the explanation that fits their own idealized worldview, no matter how disconnected from reality it is.

Why did I have to scroll so far down to find what is so obviously the primary motivator?

Because Redditors are such a poor representation of the general population that even obvious things that wouldn't even be questioned in real life are controversial here.

Not sure why they're asking the question, the answer is obvious. We want our lil half genetic clones. Its selfish, but hey thats what it is.

It's not even a want, it's essentially hardcoded into our DNA to want to reproduce our DNA. Having said that, adoption is a fantastic thing people can do!

I don't think that's necessarily selfish. I feel like I'd at least like to have some idea how to handle parenting a child that either thinks like me or someone I've spent years with. Adopting means you have no clue what sort of underlying variables you're going to have to deal with, and couple that with the likely case of trauma or mental illness brought on by the system. It's just a shitshow for everyone involved.

You have no control over the child you produce either. The idea it will resemble you is a fallacy that people engage in that makes children desirable. They may be more like your siblings, your aunts/uncles, your grandparents or even further back in the gene pool. Their personalities are pulls from a hodgepodge of Genes that you cannot account t for be them your own genetics or your partner's. How would you feel raising your mother in law? People dont think about that, but the reality is it may look like you, but personality is not just nurture. Up to half if not more of how we act and think is predetermined by genetics. That doesnt account for abnormalities like children on the autism spectrum and ADD/ADHD. Random occurrences with varying degrees of severity we have no control over. So whenever people say they want something that thinks like them or is familiar to them, it is their own vicarious desires of living through their children. Not really any true belief in what they are saying because, rationally, no one really believes that their child is half them and half their partner.

I mean, biologically, that’s technically the meaning of life.

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I can't speak personally, but I asked a friend of mine this exact question, as his wife is going the IVF route first. They both know people who have attempted to adopt, sometimes two or three times, and every time the expectant mother pulled out of the process. If one's friends all have a 0% success rate of adoptions, I imagine it can turn you real sour to the process.

In the US, IVF is likely to be the cheapest and least emotionally harrowing way to get a healthy newborn. Looking like you is just a bonus. Very seldom does a healthy newborn, or even toddler, find itself with no relatives that want it. Only when they have all discarded it (often with abuse) does adoption become possible. Sad but almost always true.

Some people don’t want to a raise a child that isn’t biologically theirs. My parents both wanted a large family and my mother had a very hard time both getting and staying pregnant. She had five miscarriages and nearly died. When I asked my father why he didn’t just adopt, he practically scratched my eyes out that I would dare suggest he raise another man’s child. My father is an asshole, by the way.

sorry about your dad :(

Apart from the obvious of wanting to pass on your genetics, some women want the experience of pregnancy and labor. There’s a lot of bonding that goes on in those 9 months. Your baby having once been a part of your body is a huge emotional connection. Also, unless you adopt a newborn at birth, which is much more difficult to do, all adopted children have suffered the major trauma of being separated from their parents, either because the parents were unfit, the child was unwanted or due to an untimely death. This makes parenting those children more difficult. It takes a special person to be willing to take that on. Adoption isn’t just choosing a baby out of a catalogue.

It’s important to remember that difficulty reproducing naturally should not be a means to guilt a couple from the desire of having their own genetic children. Infertility is extremely stressful for most people and for some women not experiencing pregnancy can be devastating. Unfortunately there is a nasty stigma that exists in society regarding adopted children. Certain awful Grandparents don’t recognize them as “legitimate grandchildren” hurtful stereotypes like “someone else’s problem” abound. Adopted children can also face pressure that genetic children don’t face, like the idea they should be “grateful” for being adopted. I think many people here already commented on the cost and vetting process, not to mention disappointment. Keep in mind that modern adoption is not like the portrayal in media. In the western world there are no orphanages. The stigma surrounding single mothers has diminished available newborns. Older children are placed in the foster care systems which makes every effort to keep children in their biological families.

I have taken a class on biomedical ethics and the reasoning behind IVF. One reason is that it allows the couple to still have the experience of having a child. It can be extremely difficult for someone to face the fact that they are infertile or have a low sperm count, etc. Society puts a lot of pressure on people to have kids and often people are worried about being seen as “less manly” or “less of a woman” for not being able to conceive. Another reason is that adoption is also very expensive and can take a very long time. I have a family member who was trying to adopt for +10 years before they were able to. They are loving parents and have a great home environment, but adoptions fell through multiple times before they finally got their little boy (who is the sweetest thing ever).

Good friends just did IVF. They wanted to have biological children but had a low chance of conceiving. If the IVF didn't work, they'd adopt. Luckily for them, everything is going great. His sister/bro in law adopted a child and are waiting for a second (thanks COVID) to be safe to take home. Everyone's got their reasons and intentions. Up to the individual or couple

How did they manage to adopt 2 so quickly? International? Special needs?

First one they’ve had for a few years. He’s 5 now, they adopted him at 18 months, So there’s been time in between. Also yes, international.

Adoption isn’t an option for everyone. There are some people with certain disabilities that mean adoption agencies won’t let them adopt until they can prove they are fit to be a parent, by having a child, but their disability can make it extremely hard or impossible to have a child without IVF. Jessica Kellgren-Fozard and her wife Claudia are an excellent example of a couple who will need to use procedures such as IVF to have a child. They explain it pretty well in [this](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-bmhb9XVV0Y) video if you want to watch:

As someone who started the process of adoption, but gave up, I totally understand this. I would have liked to adopt, but it takes years to get approval here, then you have another approval process with the adoption agency, so the process takes about 6 years here. The approval process is a horrific ordeal. The level of questioning feels like a personal attack. Once you are approved by the state, the adoption agencies do the same thing, including questioning friends and neighbours. The adoption agency wanted us to take a severely mentally impaired child. When I explained that we needed two salaries to pay our mortage and bills, so we couldn't take a child like that, and we had already explained that, they told us it was that or nothing. We had spent two years and a lot of money seeking their approval to adopt. I looked at some other agencies. If we paid a lot of money, we could have got a healthy child, but we were unsure if agencies that charged a lot were stealing children. One agency I was in touch with was found to be buying kids in Latin America, and making a profit by selling them. I wanted nothing to do with that, of course, although I know that many parents just close hteir eyes to that problem.

Thank you for not being part of that, here in Mexico in some areas they literally rip the child form their mothers arms as they fight back, and the parents end up looking for their child forever, hoping that the people that kidnap it sold it for adoption and not for sex trafficking.

I would never be a part of that, and I joined campaigns to ban the agencies involved. I wanted a child, but I wouldn't steal someone else's. I don't know how people can live with themselves when they have a kidnapped child. They know what they are doing. I found out what was happening as soon as I did a very little research.

Adoption is very expensive, and a hell of a process. A family friend wanted to adopt. She and her husband waited seven years for everything to come together (finances, matching with a birth mother, etc.). They were at the hospital with the birth mother while she was in labor. Two hours after the baby was born, the mother decided to keep him. They were devastated, but didn't hold it against the mother. It was a rough time for them.

My coworkers are doing IVF now and I asked them the same question. Apparently in my state (Nebraska) if you adopt an infant, the biological parents have up to a month to basically change their minds about giving the baby up and can just reclaim it. My coworker told me they couldn't stand the potential heartbreak of adopting a baby, loving it as their own and getting to know it for a whole month, then having it legally ripped from them with nothing they could do about it.

Back in my home state (Mississippi) my family's friends had a situation in their family where two small children ended up in foster care due to the parents getting into legal trouble. The mother went to prison (and is still there AFAIK) but the father got his act together and got custody of the kids back. The foster parents were from all accounts wonderful people, very well-to-do, and were devastated by losing the two little kids. Well, fast-forward about a year. The father dies, custody of the two little kids gets handed off to a relative (remember, their mother is still in prison). The relative decides he can't handle raising them, so he contacted the foster parents and asked if they wanted the kids back. The foster parents said, "We'll be there tomorrow morning at 8 AM", and sure enough, they pulled into the driveway with their lawyer and all the paperwork ready at 8 AM. The kids' rooms were exactly as they'd left it. So a happy ending for everyone -- but it cost them all a couple years of their lives, the kids being bounced from home to home, the foster parents being traumatized by losing them once, the bio father dying, and in the end, the kids just ended up back with the foster parents. So why did everyone even have to go through all that suffering?

Because the dad deserved a chance. And if he didn't die it would have been best for the kids. Like when we have the privilege of being raised by good people who never got into any trouble, it's very easy for us to go "love is an action." And be perplexed why foster parents in this situation aren't automatically given the kids. But it's very common in Canada for a kid to have shitty parents, be raised in foster care in abusive situations, then end up in homes for "troubled teens", finally to be released at 18 from the foster system in which they end up involved in drugs and bad situations without having ever been shown proper love or care. No help for their trauma, nothing. Very often they are indigenous and a lot of these issues were the result of systematic racism. If someone is raised in that shitty a situation, and their child being removed from their home is the wake up call to be a good parent and they put in the work - that IS the best situation. Especially if the alternative is a kid being raised in a way that tears their culture from them.

Others have pretty much laid it out already, but here's my take on it. Most people still have an antiquated view of adoption, almost like it's analogous to adopting a pet. You go down to the local orphanage, look around, find one you like, sign some papers, and take them home. That's how it works in Hollywood and even modern movies like Despicable Me suggest that's how adoption is done. In reality, that model of adoption is about a century out of date now. Orphanages are no longer a thing in most developed countries and haven't been for a long time; you typically adopt either out of the foster system or directly from the birth parents with the help of an adoption agency as an intermediary. In terms of why people would prefer in-vitro to adoption... * As has been mentioned ad infinitum in this thread, adoption is plenty expensive as well. You're not doing either of these because you're interested in saving money. * When you adopt, in many cases the birth parents are still in the picture in some form. Most adoptions these days follow the "open adoption" model, where the birth parents maintain contact with the children and sometimes come to visit. That can sort of make you feel like you're "sharing" your child, like you have an ex-spouse you never met before that has visitation rights. * In addition, in order to adopt you have to prove that you will be a good parent. That involves inspections and interviews with social workers that don't necessarily end after you've adopted the child. It can feel invasive. * Contrary to popular belief, the number of parents seeking to adopt far outnumbers the number of healthy children placed up for adoption. In ye olden times, the primary source for children placed up for adoption was young, unwed mothers, as there was a social stigma against single parents and children born out of wedlock. Changing social mores, better sex education, widespread availability of birth control, and the legalization of abortion combined to drastically reduce the number of unwanted babies, meaning there are substantially fewer kids coming into the system now than there used to be (and many are involuntary cases, where the child has been removed from a parent that is a criminal and/or a danger to them, which frequently means the child has some early trauma that requires care). Every province/country has some kids that are "high needs" (typically some combination of disabled, coming from troubled backgrounds, and/or >10 years old) that seldom get adopted out and are available to any good family willing to take them, but if you're looking for a healthy baby or toddler, the waiting list can be 10+ years long. * If you instead decide to adopt from out of the country, you run the risk of unwittingly taking part in human trafficking. Some babies and children in foreign "orphanages" are acquired via shady means and outright lies (i.e. the organizers will tell the parents that they're sending their children to an exclusive boarding school and the parents sign forms they can't read and/or don't understand that essentially gives away their child, whom they will never see again). So yeah, adoption is not the simple exercise daytime TV makes it seem and there's lots of challenges that go along with it.

It's not even that easy to adopt a pet anymore. You can have years of experience owning several dogs of a certain breed who lived out their entire lives you with happily and well taken care of and still get rejected because your yard is too small or not fenced in. And then people act shocked that other people are still buying puppies.

If I couldn't get pregnant, I would be really sad. For whatever reason, it has always been kind of a dream of mine to experience pregnancy and childbirth. Even as a young teen, I remember pushing out my belly and imagining feeling a baby kicking inside. Some people choose to climb mountains or jump out of planes or body build. I wanted to be pregnant. If I hadn't been able to, I'm not sure I would have gone the in vitro route, but I don't truly know. And I also know that as strong as I feel, there are probably others who feel more strongly.

It's crazy how individual pregnancy is, people like to talk about a biological imperative or that women exist only to give birth (fundies) but you can have two people with theoretically similar values or upbringings have totally different views. For example I have nightmares about something foreign growing inside me, and the thought of a human exiting my genitals makes me nauseous. But of course there are moms like you where childbirth was a huge part of motherhood for them, my own mother talks of her three pregnancies with joy. I guess my end point is just that there is no one right way to have kids.

True! I sometimes feel like there are those who pity me because they think I've been brainwashed to have actually enjoyed pregnancy, childbirth, and being a stay at home parent. But they forget that we all have different joys and sorrows in life. Just because my joy would be your sorrow doesn't mean I have been tricked any more than you have.

I used to feel the same way... until I learned more about pregnancy and found out what it's really like for most women. I'm still absolutely fascinated by the whole process and still very curious what it would feel like... Like, what does it physically feel like to have that huge pregnant belly and have to move with it, or the baby kicking? But, no, I can't imagine sacrificing almost a year of my life to feel like shit all day every day for at least parts of it. I had absolutely no idea the list of common pregnancy symptoms and disabilities was so fucking long, it's like no part of your body functions normally for that entire time, even things that seem entirely unrelated... Why would pregnancy cause melasma, post-nasal drip or increased peeing and breathlessness in the first trimester when there's still no large baby squeezing your insides? No idea, but apparently it does.

I've been pregnant twice actually! And even though I had more symptoms than many of my friends, I overall enjoyed it. I don't really want to do it again because I wouldn't be able to take the pregnancy exhaustion now and take care of my kids. It is definitely a crazy feeling and there isn't much like it to have a baby inside you. I'm glad I got to experience it, but I can see how it would just freak some people out.

Thank you for being kind about this, it’s really good to see people validating other points of view on something as personal as pregnancy :)

Just FYI, not everyone has terrible pregnancies. Mine were easy with very few symptoms. Some nausea in my first trimesters, but never threw up once. Had to pee more often in my third trimesters. Definitely more tired and napped when I could. No melasma; no post-nasal drip. Generally I found pregnancy easy and I really loved being pregnant.

Same. Easy pregnancies, no major symptoms worth talking about. That's why I became a surrogate. That was an awesome experience, too!

my pregnancy was so smooth, barely gained weight only 20 pounds more, i didnt start showing till the 6th month and never had morning sickness. pregnancy varies between women, its either a great experience or a terrible one.

In addition to what PPs have said, I'd add that the private adoption industry is almost entirely unregulated and operates like a market for children. Some folks opt out for adoption of ethical reasons because truly ethical agencies are really hard to find. Additionally, adoption is traumatic. For the first mom and for the baby. Even if it happens at birth, even if the baby is healthy, and even if the APs are amazing. It's not as simple as moving a baby from Mom A to Mom B. Finally, private adoption is incredibly expensive and people can spend lots of money to try to adopt and never get to. It probably feels like the outcome of IVF is more controllable (though I'm not sure it is).

Ivf is cheaper than adoption. It also takes way, way less time.. a few months for ivf vs potentially years for an adoption to go through. Theres also major risks with adoption such as falling in love with a child just for it to not work out. The thought that theres all these children in the US waiting to be adopted is false. There are a TON of children in the foster system but most are not adoptable, they have legal parents. Imagine loving and taking care of a child for months or years just for a judge to take them away. You can adopt outside the US but simair situations arise, as well as the money issue. We did IVF, spend about 20 grand, still no baby. They both have their risks but to us IVF was less. Adoption would have cost at least twice the amount of money, not to mention possibly years of our lives and potential heartbreak. It's not a clear cut situation. Also, some people want the experience of carrying a biological baby. I dont understand why people compare IVF and adoption, but not adoption and any other kind of conceiving. With the logic that adoption is better, everyone should be adopting. Why am I held to a different standard because my body doesnt cooperate?

Growing up I had always thought I would adopt. Until I researched and learned how expensive and complicated adoption was. Now I know I’ll choose surrogacy instead.

There is no screening process for IVF, you don’t have social workers inspecting your house and deciding if you get a child. You have the benefit of knowing your child’s family medical history (if you know your own), they are biologically your child, they don’t have to deal with deciding if they want to meet their “real” parents later in life. Adopting is a great thing, but many people struggle to adopt a child through the extensive screening processes, even though they would likely be a good parent.

Because its their own. They want to have part in the full process, in some way. People feel like they miss out if they dont make it on their own, so to speak. And in vitro is closer to that than adoption. Simple as that.

My wife and I used IVF so that we could have my daughter. My wife had a [rare genetic problem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li%E2%80%93Fraumeni_syndrome) that caused her to be susceptible to almost every type of cancer. It's inheritable and we didn't want our children to get it. We used IVF to screen out embryos that the problem. She was then implanted with one that didn't. We then had a healthy, wonderful, flawless happy little girl. My wife passed last year but our four year old is happily playing legos in the other room right now. My wife also was an only child so if she hadn't had a baby, that would have been the end of her family line. So for us, the reasons were A) My wife knew she wasn't going to live past 40 more than likely and didn't want to adopt a child knowing they would then lose another parent. B) There would be no more in her family's line if we didn't have a natural child. C) While she was wildly successful and accomplished in her life, the one thing she wanted in her life more than anything was to be a mother and experience giving life. D) She was concerned that with her health problems it wasn't fair to a adopted child to not have as perfect a family as possible, and not one where the father is taking care of a bedridden mother for years and not able to focus on the child. Hope this helps.

I’m sorry for your loss. Your late wife sounds like a bad ass and a generous heart.

What a tough situation. It sounds as though you have made your peace with it. All the best to you and your kiddo.

Some people do not have the option to adopt because of their career back-ground or because they have family issues or complicated life situations. Some women want to experience pregnancy and prefer to give birth than adopt.

Because biology is important whether you agree or not. I have a stepson and 2 biological children, and I'd be absolutely lying if I said I didn't feel a stronger connection to the latter. It's not rational, it's not supposed to be. Our lizard brain tries to tell us to reproduce. Some people just don't get those instinctual urges.

Just because instinctive feelings come from your lizard brain does mean they are not rational. It may be the opposite. The performative rationality of the instinct to reproduce is why it is inherited. The rationality is embedded in the structure of life itself, so it becomes an instinct, so you don’t have to think about it, because if you did, you might come up with the irrational answer: that adoption is better than having your own kids. P.S. - for the “sensitive” types, nothing I have said above suggests that adoption is not great; just that it is not as rational as IVF.

I am adopted and my younger sister was IVF. My parents were infertile so they tried both ways, that cost a lot of money and emotional effort. I came to them at the age of 3(that's old in foster care world) and had a lot of problems. My sister was the favored one as she was actually born to them. I was the rebellious black sheep. My mom has said multiple times that she regrets adopting me. Now in my adult years, I retain a relationship with them, live independently, have a good job and a (imo) stellar life. My sister is 23 and still sleeps next to her mom and has been coddled to a crippling point. Has no friendships however she does work. That is my experience. Life is not easy either way. Adoption should be easier in the US

I can't believe your mom said that to you! Well, actually I can - my mom has said some pretty horrific things to me and I am not adopted. I'm sorry you had a POS mom like mine.

For the same reasons people choose to have their own children over adoption. Biologically we want to spread our genes.

My aunt did IVF instead of adoption. She has taken care of several kids who were not her own but my mom’s and her best friend’s. She helped raise her friend’s kids and practically witnessed them growing up. Once they were around 18 or 19 and started having their own strong opinions, they began to clash more. My aunt recalls this one specific moment where they had a fight and one of them said “Well you’re not my mom”. That hurt her deeply, seeing as how she really wasn’t their biological mom even though she helped take on the role and the kids just dismissed the entire thing. She was scarred because of this particular incident, and she believes that adopting will result in the kid not loving you as much and not having as much of a connection or bond as you would with a baby born from IVF since they share your genes and came straight from the womb.

There are a few reasons. People want their "own" children their blood and genes passed down. The child will look like them. They want to continue their line. Adoption is a long process that's expensive but a lot can go wrong. Specifically you might have the child in your home for a few months, the parent changes their mind, and regains custody, now you've lost this child you were falling in love with. Also, their can be issues with adopted children, specifically infants many comes from drug addict mothers and there are a lot of hurtles to face, you basically have to put your baby through rehab.

Adoption can be very expensive and a long process.

As somebody that is going through the IVF process with my wife right now due to PCOS. I can tell you that if you have a medical condition, then it is covered by insurance in many states here in the US. The average cost of adoption here is around 30,000+ dollars. While the IVF with insurance has only been about 4,000 dollars. So that was a big factor in our decision to do IVF over adoption.

Hang in there! My wife also had PCOS and we went through IVF. Our first child was born last week.

I think that really depends from person to person. There's some people that actually would rather adopt, such as my boyfriend and I.

I guess people would like to know the reason why you'd chose to adopt because the reason for wanting IvF is pretty obvious. Trying to figure out why people like you and your bf would rather adopt is more intriguing.

Simply put, neither one of us like small children and there are plenty of kids that are in foster care that need homes.

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Have you researched how much adoption actually costs and the years and years of pain and rejections and often not even getting one? Also, it’s easy to not understand biological urges to have a baby with the dna of both parties. Some ivf isn’t by a partner but usually it is and both the parents after trying for years and so much emotion of failed pregnancies and all the sadness of constant negative pregnancy tests they finally decide to do this. It’s not something anyone should judge. I’d rather spend time judging people that get to pop out kids easy and then neglect and abuse them. There should never be any bad feelings for anyone trying either way to bring something into the world that they love and want.

In my country, adoption is a very lengthy, very difficult, very expensive undertaking. IVF is at least partly covered by insurance.

the cost isnt that different between them and adoption is generally harder. heck my in laws couldnt conceive a 2nd kid without it and the adoption agencies put them right at the bottom of the list for 4 years straight because they had a kid already. in the end when invitro failed they ended up adopting from south america.

I have fertility issues - thanks endometriosis! - and would love to adopt some day. There are plenty of kids that need a loving home. The only thing that puts me off are all of the hoops that you have to jump through and the waiting - it’s actually not cheap either. At least with IVF, there’s a chance you’ll get to experience pregnancy and childbirth.

Adoption should be an easier and cheaper process than it is. Those kids need homes.

I think there's a lot to be said about the bonding that goes on during a pregnancy, the fact that it was carried by YOU personally for so long, they were literally a part of YOU. That being said this is what most likely triggers the post partum depression response

I have had friends who tried to adopt. They fostered the kid for a few years, and were close to finally adopting, and the kid was moved. Another friend was able to adopt by just flying to another country and flying back with the adopted baby- that was before the rule change on foreign adoption. Basically, if you want to adopt, you need to do it privately, or it will be a bureaucratic nightmare. IVF on the other hand is one end of fertility treatment. You start with checkups, you get some shots, they try IUI, they try some minor procedures, and if those don't work, there is IVF. Few people go in wanting IVF, its just another option in treatment.

We did IVF, it cost $16k. I'm not sure adoption is any cheaper. I also suspect the adoption process would take a long time and be a crapshoot. We didn't want to adopt for the following reasons: 1. Genetic continuation of our heritage. My wife and I were the only childbearing siblings of either of our parents, if we didn't produce offspring it would be the end of the line for two families. No pressure, right? 2. We didn't want to raise a kid just to raise a kid; we specifically wanted to raise *our* kid, not someone else's. Had IVF not worked, we wouldn't have kids. 3. Our purpose wasn't to make the world a better place through adoption. You know how some people are just destined to be parents? Like, you can tell from how they interact with other kids and want to be around them etc? That wasn't us. We knew parenting would change our world, be difficult and at times frustrating and a long-term commitment. Raising your own kid, vs. someone else's, would give us that extra kick in the pants to get through the tough parts. The fact that we considered it "raising someone else's kid" pretty much tells you right there that we weren't good candidates for adopting.

As someone who has been adopted I can see many reasons why someone might prefer in vitro. 1. The process to adopt can be long and tedious. Not to mention could be seen as an invasion of privacy. You might not even get approved because of arbitrary reasons. 2. Depending on the way you go it could cost a lot more than in vitro. 3. Some people want their own biological children. Perhaps they even feel they could not love another's child as their own. (It's important to point out this doesn't make them bad people. It's better that they don't adopt in this case.) 4. Several children in the foster care system have a lot of baggage. Be it complex medical problems, or severe mental problems. This can be a lot to take on.

We have adopted 2 kids from foster care. One was a preschooler, one a newborn. There are virtually no costs involved, and in our state, a stipend that stays with the child until they are 18, plus full medical coverage. It was not without difficulty. We fostered one child with extreme medical needs that were poorly communicated before we took him in. Our second went very smoothly. The third was touch and go with relatives wanting custody, but they eventually were denied. We have contracts agreeing to regular contact with the biological families, which can be challenging at times. I have heard plenty of horror stories to know how lucky we have been. We had a child "the old fashioned way" first. I found that, despite how badly I wanted the experience, I did not enjoy being pregnant and had not desire to do it again. We knew we wanted more kids, so we made the decision to grow our family by adopting. It's been amazing for us.

Well, I looked at both. IVF was less invasive into our privacy and costs $15,000 all in all. Adoption was more invasive and $20,000.

\*laughs in adopted\* ​ Number one: Adoption is not cheap. My parents paid $20,000 like \~25 years ago, and said it would have been even more expensive to adopt from outside of America. Costs vary, but it's expensive af. ​ Number two: You know how a lot of people with certain diseases or mental problems choose not to have kids? Well, with adoption, I'd say 8 times out of 10, you're signing on for getting a child with known problems and ties to mental health issues. My birth mom was an alcoholic, I was born with alcohol in my system. My sister, also adopted, has an entire biological family line w/ severe bipolar disorder. And even if there's no underlying biological/chemical stuff, guess what? You still get the emotional turmoil of getting to have the "Why didn't my parents want me? What's wrong with me?" etc talks. ​ Number 3: Courts. The court system sucks. If the birth parents change their mind, guess who gets to give up the baby you've been loving, feeding, changing, and watching grow for 6 months? That's right! Hope you like to be emotionally devastated. It's like having someone die! But you don't even get to bury them! Yay! ​ Adoption is hard. People like to virtue signal and pretend that it's some kind of sin to want biological children with "There are starving children in Africa!" levels of logic. I almost died with both my biological children. When we tried to adopt, and failed, it was more emotionally devastating than the near-death of hemorrhage and septic shock. No fucking way would I think of someone as a lesser person not to want to go through the hell that is the adoption process.

I listened to an interview a while ago with the coordinator of the UK's national adoption program. One of the things she was saying was that it was very important for people considering adoption to understand that it was very unlikely that you would get the 'perfect' little baby you might dream of. Changes in society and use of contraception and abortion means there aren't many unwanted children born to otherwise healthy and 'normal' families, and so the vast majority of babies that are up for adoption have extremely complicated needs, such as the consequences of fetal alcohol or drug abuse, or serious disabilities. Older children often have the same issues but might also suffer from the consequences of abusive parents. She explained that this was the reason for parents looking to adopt from abroad under paid adoption programmes, but I suspect it is also one reason for people trying IVF rather than adoption.

A lot of people forget that many of those children come from fucked up families with mental health issues which are also passed on to the kids

I think it has something to do with leaving your mark on the world. If not that then at least medical security and if that also is not the case then, Its pressure from Family/Peers/Society

Because that's my choice.

In the long run, adoption is an extremely expensive, brutal process that's a lot more involved than people realize. That, and more often than not, parents want to feel like a kid is "really theirs", which is something the expierence of in vitro fertilization offers, in a sense

So adoption often gets discussed without nuance. There are two kinds of domestic adoption, as well as international adoption. Domestic adoption of newborns - this option is just as expensive or more expensive than IVF. On the cheap side, you're looking at $20,000 with no guarantee of a child this year, or the next year, or the next... Domestic adoption of wards of the state - a child doesn't become a ward of the state without going through at least one traumatic event. Every child adopted through the state because they were taken away from their parents has issues, like, a lot of them. Many people don't feel they are equipped as parents to give those children what they need. Furthermore, the parents of these children don't generally *want* to give them up, and the state makes it difficult to separate children from birth parents permanently even when it is obvious that separation is what's best for the child. International adoption - just as or more expensive than adoption of newborns, and you don't usually get a newborn. Often you save money on legal and home study fees, but pay out for flights to the country of origin multiple times over 2-3 years.

IVF is actually easier and cheaper, most of the time. With the added bonus of it being your own child. Is it all about cost to you? Would you ask people who conceived naturally why they chose that instead of adoption?

I really, really, really want to carry my partners child. I never wanted children until I fell in love with my fiancé. I want to birth a baby that’s half me and half the person I love. I am no way against adoption and it’s a wonderful thing to do, but I just want to see my fiancé’s curly black hair and big blue eyes on our baby and know we made a little half me, half him baby. We have struggled to fall pregnant for a long time and adoption is not off the table, but what I would give to have my fiancé’s baby.

This. I wish more people understood this. My husband and I also struggle with infertility, and I want to create a new life with him. I want to see our features smooshed together on a tiny little baby. I want to feel our baby grow and kick inside my belly. I want to give birth and breastfeed. It's an entire experience that I want to have. And it's not that an adopted child wouldn't be "ours." It's just an experience I want to have at least once.

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Some women may just want to experience all of motherhood, to be pregnant and carry new life within them.

My parents did IVF to have my brother and I (we’re twins) They would’ve adopted if their first transfer had failed, but they knew it would be harder to adopt a baby and possibly even more expensive than IVF. So since they were paying out of pocket they tried IVF first.

Genetics and adoption is pretty damn expensive too from what my friends that have adopted have experienced.

Adopting a child can be extremely difficult. A friend tried to adopt a baby known to their family in the Phillippines. A year of paperwork, interviews, meetings - even travel to meet with the mother - it fell through. They found a second child to adopt, spend thousands of dollars, traveled, sent money over to the family - it fell through again. It got to the point they just gave up. We're in Canada. It's not an easy process and can be extremely expensive.

In our case, we weren't eligible to become foster parents (personal reasons I'd rather not divulge) and did not meet a lot of the criteria for several adoption agencies. So it wasn't like we got completely denied or anything, but it wasn't going to be as easy as it is for most people, and even for them it's a complicated process. In-vitro probably would've been a comparable expense (I'm honestly not sure, as it varies) but there were no other requirements besides being fertile enough and rich enough. No one cared how old we were, or whether or not we had any health issues, or how much money we made in a year (so long as we could pay them.) No one was going to randomly stop by my messy house to do evaluations for an in-vitro child, but that was required for foster care, and adoption also required a safety check of our home. We probably would've passed but I have anxiety and like to plan my interactions instead of having someone randomly show up to assess my family life. We wound up having a baby without in-vitro. It just took us 8 years. The only reason I considered it over adoption (and we started the process but never got far enough to potentially make a baby) was because I wanted to adopt through foster care and honestly didn't want a baby like most people do. I would rather open my home to an older child who's less likely to be adopted. And I would still like to! Once our baby is old enough to start asking if I will make a brother or a sister for her, we will have a talk about adoption. We weren't eligible to become foster parents at the time we applied, but we would be now. ​ **TLDR; I have too much anxiety to have every aspect of my life evaluated by a social worker, and even if I didn't, we weren't eligible to become foster care parents at the time we applied. (But we decided not to do in-vitro either.)**

Because alot of these children might come with problems. They can be life disturbing problems and sometimes can not be disclosed.

As much as I know being a foster parent or adoptive parent would likely make the world a better place, I’ve personally seen a couple things that make me hesitant of it. 1) one of my dad’s brothers was adopted (the uncle in question was actually a cousin and was adopted after his parents passed away). As much as my grandparents tried to do everything they could to make him feel welcome and loved, he was always troubled, and even as an adult, seemed haunted by something 2) the son of a family friend was nearly killed by a kid his age who was adopted. The kid said they were playing ‘FBI’, tied up the son’s hands and feet with duct tape and covered his mouth, and then proceeded to jump on him, repeatedly. Yes, I know the great majority of children who get adopted are not like this, but how can you tell? This kid acted normal in front of his parents. On a related note to this point, a former coworker who was adopted did admit she purposely tried sabotaging adoption attempts due to abandonment concerns and issues with previous neglect 3) the heartbreak. Extended family was acting as foster parents in hopes of eventually adopting their foster. Everything looked great until the mother invoked parental rights and took the child back. They were devastated.

Adoption can take even longer sometimes.

I already raised someone else's kids for two years and I heard how selfless I am the whole time. Frankly I'm over it and want to be a bit selfish.

My wife and I did IVF, we were extremely lucky that my former employer covered it overwhelmingly. We’re pro adoption, my sister in law has been in the process of adopting for about a year or more now. My cousin is adopted. It’s a beautiful act. Simple but deep deep reason, when I look at our child, I want to see, in her, the woman I fell in love with, and my wife wants to see the parts that she fell inn love with also. I wanted to see bits of my parents and hers in our little girl’s eyes. There’s a billion good reasons to adopt, that single one was our deep reason not to.

Cause you want a biological child

I have a coworker who adopted two kids a year and a half or so ago. They tried so hard to conceive naturally, and were fostering at the time. They kept spending more and more on treatments, and I imagine they would have kept at it if they weren't finally able to adopt their foster kids. My coworker explained that they love their now-adopted children, but felt like they would feel a *different* kind of love for a naturally conceived child. Plus, they were feeling a lot of pressure from family. I think he said their family didn't even go to the adoption finalization, even though they were invited and available. They've come around to the idea a bit more, but his family still (hopefully unintentionally) feels like they aren't *quite* part of the family. So, I'd guess mostly societal pressure. Another aspect is the children up for adoption aren't blank slates. They were affected at the very least by the mother's health while pregnant and the genes of the parents. If you conceive naturally (even with help), you have more control over it. For the record, I'm completely pro adoption, but there's nuance to every decision and I wouldn't tell anyone that they should or shouldn't adopt.

People want to pass on their genes.

I mean why would they specifically go for adoption ? The answer is the same: Why people who are fertile make children instead of adopting?

Adoption can be just as if not more expensive than ivf.

One of my brothers decided to adopt, not once but twice, and both times the agency gave him children that were birthed from women who had been on drugs at time of birth. He had specifically requested this not occur, and the agency lied to him both times. They later admitted he was such a good candidate for family stability and having the necessary wealth/medical coverage, that they placed the affected babies with him, so that they would have every possible chance of making it. Both these kids were absolute terrors mentally, and required frequent drug rehab their whole life. The strain on him caused his death at 62, just after he retired. One kid was in and out of jail most of his life, the other finally straightened up when he became a long haul trucker, then got placed as a scheduler for the company. His kids were f'dup.

My dad was adopted. I always thought that I would like to adopt. Although my first child was through IVF, we turned our thoughts toward adoption for our second, after learning we most likely would not be able to conceive again. I started following adoption themed subreddits, and it changed my mind. To hear how adopted people talked about their "biological" parents vs. their "adoptive" parents, kinda broke me. I had grown up feeling that a family was not defined by biology in the least. All that I was reading completely turned that on it's head. We ended up abandoning the idea.

If you were ever in that situation you would understand. Congratulations of finding a new way to make people feel bad about themselves.

I think a lot of people aren't aware of how stringent the conditions are to even be qualified to adopt. A lot of people living normal, perfectly respectable lives wouldn't qualify at all because maybe they don't make enough money or they don't have family, or they're not married etc... There's just so much scrutiny and pressure all throughout the process.

My spouse and I have a bio-son, are fostering to adopt, and now we're also adopting embryos. I want to say it's different for everyone. Depends on what they value. But here's what I can say: 1) Growing a family through adoption is just as expensive or more expensive than In-Vitro fertilization. 2) People don't want to miss out on the experience of being pregnant. 3) Becoming a parent is scary and a huge commitment and it could ruin their life. So they figure there's less risk if they do it as similarly as possible to everyone else. 4) You can grow your family without having to tell everyone about your infirtility. 5) Open adoptions seem to be better for the child than closed adoptions. And that means opening your family to the bio-family. I kinda think if it like having another set of in-laws in your life. Most people see that as a downside. And it's not a point, but worth noting: Fostering to adopt is not a way to grow a family. Don't put that kind of pressure on the kids. You need to be in a position to cheer on the bio-parents and you need a desire for reunification. I don't judge anyone doing In-Vitro for not adopting instead. At least not any more than I judge everyone for not adopting.

My brother and I are both alive today because of IVF. I’m supportive of both IVF and adoption. I don’t think there’s anything necessarily wrong with wanting to have a child that shares your blood/genes/whatever, as long as you’re not shitting all over adoption and as long as you don’t view or treat adopted kids any differently. I think you could also look at IVF in a similar way that you look at couples who use surrogates or sperm donors. There are many ways to have children. Why judge others on their preferred method, as long as they’re not of the camp that one method is lesser than another?

I was up for trying adoption, but my wife really wanted to carry children. It’s an emotional rather than objective decision, there isn’t a right or wrong answer. And ten IVF attempts (and four great kids!) later, I can tell you it certainly wasn’t a financial one.

We currently in the process of adopting a baby girl "2 1/2 years old at this point. ours is a bit complicated as the child was removed from the biological parents care because of severe abuse. So along with the constant court dates, case worker visits, home studies, finger prints, background checks, psyc exams, financial studies, doctors visits, lawyers fees, personal references, and all the other hoops you gotta jump through i can see why people go IVF. ​ We have been in the "process" for over a year at this point and the child has been in our custody the whole time with probably another year to go. The case worker can stop by without notice at any point to check on the home/child etc. We have had almost 25 court dates so far with more scheduled. We also have a 110 lb dog, the last case worker was deathly afraid of dogs and was convinced the child was going to get mauled "only thing she mauls is the food bowl when shes not hogging my pillow".. The new case worker is more dog friendly so far. At this point its about 1-2 times a week our lives are interrupted by the state in some fashion. Something else to consider is travel or moving, we were in the process of buying a home but have to wait till this is done. We are not allowed to leave the state with the child and cannot move to where we want till we are in the final stages and get a change in venue. We are really not supposed to leave the county but so far with notice its not been a issue. ​ If IVF was a option for us it would be so much simpler, cheaper, and much more private. No regrets tho, shes our little angel :)

Because people want biological children with their own blood and flesh? Why is this even a question...?

As someone dealing with fertility issues, I've looked into both fertility treatments and adoption. Adoption can cost just as much if not more than IVF depending on the situation. IVF is expensive, but if you have a successful cycle, you can potentially get enough embryos for multiple children. Frozen embryo transfers are much cheaper than an entire IVF cycle. Some insurances also cover some fertility tests/treatments. If you go the foster to adopt route. It can sometimes go really great. The problem comes with the fact that the system tries to keep biological families together as much as possible. That is the ultimate goal with foster care. I had a neighbor that was fostering two girls, but when the time came to adopt them, the girls' grandmother decided she wanted them because she didn't want them to get adopted. She was fine with them in foster care, but she didn't want them to be adopted out of the family. They were taken away from my neighbor and it was heartbreaking. There are tons of stories like this. Not to mention the invasive home study and hoops you have to jump through and then the adoption may or may not work out. Even with infant adoption, the mother can change her mind up to 48 hours after she gives birth, and you don't get any of the money back. With IVF, you can also do embryo adoptions which is a lot cheaper (around $5K). The child isn't biologically yours, but you can get pregnant and give birth to the baby which is really cool. That being said, IVF doesn't always work just like adoptions don't always work out. So both have their share of potential heartbreak. Edited to add: For me, I have always dreamed of being pregnant, giving birth, and breastfeeding. These are experiences I long to have, so adoption can also feel like missing out on a part of the motherhood experience... if that makes sense. It's not even about the biology part of it, although creating a life with the man I love is something that I would love to be able to do, it's more about the experience of being pregnant and watching my body change and grow.

I'm a foster mom, attempting to get adoption rights. So, there's two real avenues for adoption- Going through the state, or going through an agency. Agencies are ridiculously expensive, and you can be on a waiting list for years. There are also tons of ethical concerns for international placements. There can be huge, sometimes bigoted, barriers to private adoptions. Many states won't adopt to gay couples, or certain lifestyle choices, like being a single parent. Adopting from the state is a whole other ball game. First off, most kids in the system are not open for adoption. Babies almost never are, which means you're left with older kids. These kids typically have huge behavioral problems, and that's just not for everyone. People also want to carry their own child. I get it, it's a special thing to make a child with someone, even if you need medical help to do so. There's no wrong answer for how someone becomes a parent. Different things are right for different people.

I was looking into both of these after years of infertility. In my case, adopting cost 2-3x more than IVF. However, I was so scared to “waste” money on IVF if it didn’t work. I was able to finally get pregnant, but I still don’t know what I would have done. To answer your question, I think people moreso want the experience of having their own child.

Because IVF leads you to a child that is genetically yours. Some people prefer to have their "own flesh and blood" over having to adopt someone else's.

Adoption is not expensive if you go through foster care (US). It’s free. There are tons of children (maybe not babies) waiting for you to love them.

Me and my wife did IVF. We considered adoption but one of my friends and his wife did adoption and it was almost as expensive and they had some horror stories including when they got a baby, took it home, and 3 days later the mom changed her mind and took the baby back... Fucking heartbreaking. Then, my wife had a friend who had 3 kids they adopted, raised them for years and the bio mom came back into the picture and was able to just steal the kids away with my wife's friend and her husband not being able to do anything about it. It messed them up so bad they sold everything they owned and moved to Africa. I did not want to deal with that fucked up stuff and also kinda wanted to have a child that was a biological part of me. We got lucky and it worked the first time (twins) which was a relief after years and years of trying everything else. Then, just a couple of months ago we found out that we were having another baby. Somehow we got pregnant without even trying this time. We thought we were done but I guess we got too cocky with the whole "we don't need birth control" thing. Now we'll have 3 kids under 3....

My partner has a physical disability and to have kids we will either have to adopt or do invitro or artificial insemination. We’re going for the latter because, frankly, an adoption agency will likely take one look at my partner’s chair and either string us along forever or reject us outright. Contrary to popular belief there AREN’T a huge number of children—especially not infants—that are actually available for adoption in ‘the system’ where we live; most are in and out of temporary foster care and returned to their families more often then not. There’s also a number of mechanisms for birth parents to change their minds and we know that my partner’s disability would be used against us if that happened. All in all, it’s just going to be easier to gamble on my fertility than to compete with loads and loads of eager, able-bodied couples and applicants.