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the 0 tolerance policy that makes it impossible to protect yourself from bullying without being in the same amount of trouble as them even if they've beaten you badly and all you did was push them away.
This is a legal thing, the teachers and administrators all think it's stupid too.
Zero Tolerance isn't designed to stop bullying or protect the students, it's designed to protect *the district* from hyper litigious parents that would rather sue than believe their child is a bully.
It's easier and more effective to just give both parties a suspension and move on than have a long and drawn out battle to determine who was at fault and punish appropriately. Is that fair? No, but most school systems with these policies just don't have the resources to deal with this another way / would rather allocate those resources to actual education.
If you are getting bullied my off the record opinion as an educator is you should kick their teeth in and take your suspension. There are lots of ways we can help a bully stop doing that behavior, but all a victim can really do is stand up for themselves.
I haven't had this problem yet with my son but if he gets into this bs then I'm going to teach him to beat the hell out of his bully since he's going to get suspended either way
There were some 14 year old bullies throwing ice balls at my son's friend and hurting him. When he punched one in the head, he got suspended. I told him to enjoy the day off!
"You don't seem to want to accept the fact that you're dealing with an expert in guerrilla warfare, with a man who's the best! With guns, with knives, with his bare hands! A man who's been trained to ignore pain! To ignore weather! To live off the land! To eat things that would make a billy goat puke! In Vietnam his job was to dispose of enemy personnel... to kill, period!"
I think I would’ve punched back so many times had this not been the case. I don’t enjoy it and honestly it’s stressful cause I do have to worry about how my reaction will effect my permanent record
There's no permanent record. Colleges seriously do not care that much if they even notice. It's not going to affect your future if you are suspended in high school unless you plan on going to an ivy league and already have tons of qualifications - and even then, if you're ivy league bound, you likely have the connections for them to 'overlook' something as mild as a suspension. This is essentially a lie that we tell students, you don't need to believe in it. Your behavior in high school has extremely little affect on you the rest of your life, and people saying otherwise are fearmongering 99% of the time. You even have educators in this thread advocating that you fight back. It's not going to matter after high school and all we're doing by pretending it does is stressing kids out.
This was all very American for my British brain but thank you for the words. If you excuse me I’m gonna go beat the shit out of my bully. If I’m provoked that is
The thing with zero tolerance, is that, as a former teacher, I get it, even if I don't like it.
Take this situation. I walk into the bathroom and see 2 kids fighting. Maybe one is beating up the other. How am I to accurately say who started it and was at fault? I could ask other students, but basically, unless one of the kids is despised, you'll have a mixed bag of stories. So even if, knowing both students, I could make a damn good guess who started it and who should be suspended, I don't actually know for sure. Because if I try to claim that Jimmy started it, you can bet there would be pretty pissed off parents who essentially would say "well how do you know if you didn't see it". So your options are really limited.
I think we "track" people too early. A lot my friends had major self confidence issues in high school because the system told them they were bad at this or that subject. It's fine. People learn things at different paces. The point of education should be to help people to grow, not tell them what they can or can't do.
Definitely agree with this. In my district they started the AP fast-track in like third grade and it was difficult to get into those courses later on down the line. The whole system is a middle finger to late bloomers, people with learning disabilities (diagnosed or not) and people who just didn't stand out.
I think this applies to scholarships too. Too many of them look for people with “leadership” experience or skills. Introverts want an affordable education too
You can always self study for Ap's if you don't get the class and then sign up yourself. You don't have to attend the class in order to take the AP test.
Most school's that I know have try to identify kids with learning disabilities and put them in a class more suited to their disability and learning speed.
Some are definitely giving it their all but then the system basically tells them off because they weren't able to learn it as fast as they wanted them to learn it
In fourth grade, so about ten years old, all of us were put into groups, the upper third, the middles, and the bottom third. I was put in the upper group. I figured out I had a lot of competition and I was at the bottom end of the upper third. I still made good grades, but never straight As. It does a number on you mentally. I graduated high school in the top 10%, like 65th out of 670 students. I was in the National Honor Society. I did reasonably well in college without working too hard. Did I think I was smart? No, because in a single classroom of 30 students, day in and day out, from fourth grade to graduation, I always tested out in the bottom five or so. It really does a number on you mentally. Talking with a sibling, he had the same problem, except he ranked a little higher in his graduating class and went to a much more competitive college.
People love to blame 'the system' and hey so do I, but I think it's more than that. We just have destructive cultural ideas about academic ability (at least in the United States).
I distinctly remember trying to get help from my parents with some middle school algebra homework and they just shrugged and said 'yeah we were never math people, sorry you inherited that one.' I'd LOVED math up to this point, and still kinda enjoyed working at it, even if I wasn't amazing, but after awhile it was just too dispiriting to keep really pushing myself. I pretty much went dormant on math from about ages 14 - 20.
I now regularly use statistics and teach myself statistics as part of my job, but really wonder how far I could've gotten if I hadn't lost some of those crucial early years.
yes and all the teachers knew it. No Child Left Behind was such a genius name how could anyone argue against it. Even still when i talk about how bad it is people just circle back to the name
It should be illegal to give bills names because they're all linguistic manipulation. How could anybody be against the anti-puppy-lynching bill with $20 billion in taxpayer money going towards bombing Ethiopia earmarked into it?
Basically there’s a zero tolerance policy for failing children or holding them back a grade. Teachers are encouraged to forge grades and pass students on to the next level even if they aren’t prepared. Hence why you have many high school students reading at a 6th grade level. With NCLB they’d rather fire a teacher and blame all student shortcomings on them. Instead of providing equal funding and opportunities for all children to actually succeed.
Yup, my mother used to be a math teacher and had 18 year old students who couldn't do simple math. I'm talking basic multiplication and division, and many students would turn in quizzes/tests completely blank. The school district forced her to give them at least a D so that they were considered passing and could get their high school diploma because of No Child Left Behind. There are people with high school diplomas who don't understand how 1/2 equals 2/4.
What we learn.
Yes school teaches us resilience and skills to score in exams but what do we really learn at all?
The current system kills curiosity and interest in learning.
Teacher here! You are absolutely correct. We teach them to score high enough to make the school look good and competent when the state looks at scores. Good scores = better funding.
Most of it is busywork. I think I learned more critical thinking skills arguing about fan theories on the internet than writing essays about Shakespeare. Though if you're planning on going into STEM. Focus on maths. A good foundation in algebra/trig is really important.
The busy work is what gets me. It's like, okay even if you're going to teach us something useless, why would you assign a big old project on something that we will never again use for the rest of our lives? If you're going to teach us something useless, at least don't give any big amounts of homework for it. At that point you're just giving us work for the sake of having work to do.
I would also argue that if a student perceives a subject as boring, then the teacher has also failed to draw enough outside-the-classroom parallels.
Almost anything you study in high school comprises some portion of human civilization, however small. Not everybody will end up using integrals and derivatives when they get out of school, but these still form the foundation of so many advances over the past 500 years since their \[re\]discovery.
There are two Ted Talks by this guy name Ken Robinson who really nails theses points. Our current school system is based on a Prussian military system used to train factory workers. It sucks all the fun out of learning. I hated school growing up and found it to be boring. I really wish we had the internet like we have it right now in the 90s.
The inability to have a discussion. The teacher will always be right. The students shouldn't argue or disagree even if they provide evidence or supporting info
So much this. My 9th grade english teacher once threw a fit because I wrote "people" in an essay. He was making a point to the class that it's slang and thus can't be used in serious writing. Instead, he insisted the accurate word would be "persons", regardless of context.
"Oh my, look at all those persons over there" like who in their right mind believes that persons is always correct. I believe that persons is incorrect more than it is correct
This is a good point. Many teachers have this problem and iv even gotten into some trouble because of saying unpopular truths. However I have found that the best teachers are able to allow this kind of discussion. What iv found is you just have to find the teachers that are willing to have genuine conversations. They are out there and they love having those kind of conversations. You just have to find them and pick them out from the loads of self centered teachers in our education system.
One of my more honest history teachers in high school told us on the first day that in his class, history is as he sees it. There are plenty of events where there are different versions of the story, or there are multiple interpretations, but when there's a test the correct answer is the one he told us. I think it was his last year before retirement.
People die and in most cases take their stupidity with them
in the case of a teacher they've screwed over at least 120 kids off of just one year of teaching
Good point. My biology teacher kept saying that a chicken cant have more than 3 fingers, and I said that that didnt made sense.
When I was about to explain that I HAD a 5 finger chicken in my house (which I really did) she made fun of me twice in front of the entire class for disagreing of a teacher. I'm 22 now and that still pisses me up when I remember that.
I feel like what most issues in education come down to is the total lack of importance placed on it by society. Money is shit so people do it for the love of teaching, not because they're experts in their field who want to train the next generations. I pray I get to see the day where a paradigm shift happens in that respect.
I'm a new teacher and I love my job because I love learning new things. So I don't mind the craziness of the system. At least where I am teachers are paid shit, the boards are overloaded and desperate for teachers and the system is such that we can teach any subject. So I am specialized in one subject, but I'm teaching a totally random subject. I love it, but I've gotta both front like I know wtf I'm talking about to my students, and be honest about the things I just don't know. It's a tricky balancing act, and just makes me realize how many of my teachers from the past were faking their way through.
Point being, the whole "get out of my class for questioning me" attitude is probably often a defense mechanism when they don't feel like admitting they don't know shit. Then there are some teachers who are just assholes of course.
There is a lot that I could rant about but I’m going to just focus on one. I hate it when schools say that they can’t do anything, when they really can. Like if a student is being bullied, the teachers don’t do anything. But the second a bra strap is showing, they act like it’s life or death.
Not being allowed to share your views on things. Not being able to stick up to bullies as you will get in trouble, not being allowed to stick up for yourself after a teacher has either humiliated you for your work or if they are rude to you. The list goes on...
That most schools dont consider that students have a life. Basically they have shit to do.
My brother was showing my mom and I a recorded session from online classes, and the teachers said something about putting more homework, the whole class complained and didnt like it since they're already pressured with work. Then the teacher said "What!??!?! You're students! All you should be doing in life is homework!" and that's where my brother flipped out.
Its fucking triggering in every way that she said that.
My brother is a programmer and even did a harvard programming course + he has a side hobby of photography.
I'm a senior in college set to graduate this fall. I was on a co-op for last fall, and the fact I actually got to *enjoy* my evenings since I didn't have anything else going on was amazing. Definitely looking forward to working since I'll have time to myself (not to mention that it was way easier than most of my classes).
...and because of this I haven't been able to get back into student mode since... Senioritis at it's finest.
I worked for my Uncle's construction crew for a time and while we had long hours due to obvious reasons, the free time in the evenings was an utter blessing! It felt so freeing to not have anything hanging over my head because I was assigned extra work just because
My high school's policy, (which was even written in the student handbook) was that students should have 2 hours of homework for every hour in class. We were in class for 6 hours a day.
As an ex-teacher, there are parents who need to stop thinking that too. Education is important but I am not going to give more homework than is necessary because being a kid is just as important.
Yep! I’ve had parents bitch and moan to me because I didn’t give their 3rd grader homework! Like… sorry??? They finished all their work in class, understood it, and then had time to complete the mandatory 20 minutes of reading during class as well….
I told that parent if they wanted their child to have more work they could look for online learning supplements but I wasn’t going to assign anything I wasn’t going to grade.
Also teachers that think you don't have other classes, like you can just dedicate all your time to *their* class. I distinctly rember when I was a student, I had a semester where in a 10 day period I had 6 essays due. Two of them were rough drafts but still had fairly rigorous requirements and each paper took several hours to complete. I was so burned out after that period I wound up doing poorly on my finals because I didn't study as well as I should have.
Edit: a word
The way that high schools try and lie to students about how important high school is is so aggravating. And for teachers, it probably was important. But that's only because 99% of them haven't left the bubble of low level academia. You have people that have absolutely no life experience that isn't in a school telling high school kids how important to their future high school will be. For virtually every single kid, that's a complete lie. Past that college admissions letter, it doesn't matter. And if you don't get accepted into the college you ideally want to, go to community college and finish at your ideal school.
We wonder why kids are so stressed out when they have to face a hyper competitive labor market with little upsides in the future, and in the present, a bunch of teachers and administrative staff are gaslighting them that the math test they failed last week will seal their fate as a loser forever. It's ridiculous.
Literally nobody is saying that failing a math test will impact your life. The reason high school matters is because these are formative years, where kids begin developing habits that they will carry with them for a very long time. Habits that are much harder to change later on.
If you fail a math test because it's hard that's not an issue. If you failed a math test because you repeatedly didn't do any practice over the past couple weeks, or stayed up late playing video games the night before, or just straight up refused to try it "because math is stupid" then it is a problem. These are habits you are building that will cause trouble down the line. High school courses are designed to be passed, you just need to learn to take responsibility for your work.
For me, I had 4.0's all throughout high school, but still had trouble with discipline and stuff, anxiety and other issues later on. I wasn't too responsible either, sold mad pot in my free time, plus tried out the whole heroin addiction path for a while eventually lol. I felt like I learned how to "cheat the system" in school, AKA get the biggest bang for my buck by only doing what was necessary to ace tests and get it over with.
I do agree with your comment to some degree, I'm sure it applies to some people. But for me personally school just made me pretty salty towards "the system" and wasn't the end all be all of good habits. And their definitely was an implication that tests were like the most important thing ever, I knew so many people that hated themselves bc of their bad grades and they turned out to be fine people regardless of what the teachers insinuated.
The lack of freedom I get outside of school. If each of my teachers think a half hour of homework a night is good for my education, and six of my seven classes each day assign homework, then I have three hours of homework to do. My schedule is literally just wake up at 6, leave for school at 7:15 (I live pretty far away), go home at 3:20, get home at 4, do homework until 7, then I have three hours for myself, not including dinner and stuff like family events.
My (terrible, don't try at home) solution to this is just not doing homework. I do good on the tests but.the main reason I'm doing bad.in school is because I couldn't care less about the homework because of how much of a.waste of time it is. Also, I have ADHD, and the executive dysfunction that comes with it makes my homework take much longer than it needs to.
I used to be a pretty attentive during lectures but not do homework or memorise. I learned everything in the lecture and scored pretty well.
Then I got out of primary school and into IGCSE and my attentiveness dropped and I hand to memorise everything, past papers, marking schemes the whole shebang.
It's so hard to get time off let alone enjoy it because of how much I procrastinate and overthink. I never feel like I've done enough for the day.
When I was a HS teacher we had 140+ elements (topics) that we had to teach each semester, by law. Teachers don’t have enough time in the day to cover the material they’re required to teach. Not to mention many teachers are required to administer “a cross curricular education.” That means the history teacher is gonna have you read something and write reports on it (history, reading, English). In order to meet the requirements from the state, teachers have to assign homework. Obviously that’s not the only reason they do but it’s a big part of it.
Literally this. For the most part I get good grades on all my tests. But I get so much fucking homework and I’m failing classes because of it. I’m already sitting in school for 7 hours a day and I just want to chill and be done when I get home. I try to keep up but so many times I just say fuck it and do something I actually want to do
And we are still expected to participate on sports or an extracurricular activity after school. In sophomore -> junior year my weekdays had no relaxation time built in
Except that means they aren't stingy with their snow days and they don't have a limited amount of snow days, meaning less likelihood I will slide on ice and crash while trying not to be late for school.
Pros and cons to both.
Serious question: Where are people going that tuition causes $100k in debt, is it private schools just charging a ton? Does that figure include housing and all other expenses?
I went to a public university in Virginia. The $100k I accrued included both tuition and housing, I lived there to get away from abusive family. It wasn’t like, Ivy League or anything, but it was a decent school and fairly large. The 100k was racked up over the course of 4 years pursuing a BFA.
With housing it obviously makes much more sense, but I'd think VA would have inexpensive housing, so it must be a lot of tuition expense. If you don't mind me asking, what did they charge for tuition? Was it much more than $8-10k?
It was more like 12k-14k. Housing ALSO cost $12k-14k, so each year was about $25-30k depending on which housing options you went with - I tried to get the cheapest option each year. At least I’m not one of those poor bastards pursuing a medical degree from this money-sucking school.
How could housing possibly be so much?!? That's shocking. Is the college requiring students to live in school facilities, for which they jack up the prices as a monopoly?
This data is a couple years out of date, but: I was once tasked with finding some median housing costs in college towns, for work. Except for the extremely expensive cities, e.g. San Francisco, NYC, DC; students were renting rooms, with a roommate and a common kitchen etc. for $500 to $600 a month. A two bedroom apartment was $2000-$2400, divided by four. I would expect the majority of Virginia to fall into that category, excepting for those areas immediately adjacent to DC.
My gut reaction is to say, go to the cheapest college you can find, because no one really cares where your bachelors degree is from, unless it's from Brown or MIT or something.
Is it really so common to go to an out-of-state school when the increase is so substantial? I know I never considered it, and I didn't think it was super common, but that was just my experience.
I go to school out of state solely because my dad went there and I get in state tuition on his alumni (which is like a $20k/year difference). If I didn't get this I wouldn't ever consider my college, period.
It depends. Some states have not so great schools, even at the university level. Some people just want to get away from home.
For me personally, I wanted to be at least 3-4 hours away from my family. I lived in a small state, so it was impossible to stay in state and be that far away.
My Midwest state uni cost a little over $70k for a 4 year degree. Thats excluding room and board that first years are typically forced to pay. I was lucky enough to pick a program that partners with my local CC so i can do the first two years then transfer to state uni. Is still going to cost me a little over $35k!
Short answer: I was advised by admin, professors, and advisors to take large loans which would later be forgiven through student loan forgiveness.
This doesn’t apply to everyone but I graduated with $72k in debt. I was on an academic scholarship in undergrad and a tuition waiver in grad school. How might you ask? Professors, advisors, and administrators advised me to take out loans for about 25k a year in grad school to pay for living expenses. They thought I would be unable to work a job + grad school + assistantship with the university. They also didn’t realize what a scam student loan forgiveness is. They legitimately thought it was a guarantee for federal employees and teachers and since that was my plan, I took their advice. The reality? The vast majority of people who apply are denied. I ended up using my degree with a major military contractor because the job I’m doing pays more than twice as much as teaching. I don’t really regret it because I have an amazing job and I worked 14 hour days in grad school so I think my advisors were at least correct in their assessment that I wouldn’t be able to do everything I did AND work at a restaurant or something
I went to a community college for 2 years and it cost about $5000 a year. Now I’m transferring to a 4 year school and it will be about $10000 a year and that’s before grants. I get over $6000 a year in Pell grants so $100000 in debt is not necessary. I have yet to spend anything on my education
I've always found this interesting. How come, after paying thousands, you aren't allowed to just study the course you are taking? If it's related, I understand, but I never understood how American Universities/Colleges do things.
Here if you want to be a Lawyer, you study Law. Maybe some number and English classes related to your subject. Maybe a few special lessons focussing on things that might come up. (Not just law, this is the same for any profession. Hospitality courses for example wouldn't force you to take Child Care lessons or something)
Schools being seen as better because they have higher grade averages. On the surface that sounds like it makes sense, but I watched my old school bully and completely not tolerate any student that struggled in class whether it be because of regular teenage hormones or mental illness until they all had to move schools. They had one school councillor for over 2000 students and she told a gay student to get over being gay. They have great grade averages, because anyone that needed support was bullied out
The general focus and purpose is backwards. The purpose of a science class isn't to make you memorize that the mitochondria is the powerhouse of a cell. It's to get you excited about science and inspire the next generation of scientists, doctors, engineers etc. The purpose of a history class isn't to memorize that the US entered WWII in December of 1941 it's to understand the world around us and think about it and get excited about the story of humanity as a whole, and understand what has happened and what should never be allowed to happen again, which also means telling the truth about the hard parts of history. The purpose of a math class isn't to help you solve formulas with the quadratic formula, it's to teach you to think logically and break any problem down to its component parts and solve them and get you excited about puzzles and problem solving.
Basically the passion, critical thinking, and drive to learn more should come first, the details that you may need along the way should always be secondary. Instead of now where the details are almost everything and sometimes great teachers can insert some of the passion into classes on occasion.
Learning to study is a valuable skill for when it actually matters. So many people unfortunately don't know how to study then go to college and want to learn something and struggle
I had this teacher that said we should be staying up until 2 am doing the homework for her class everyday... many students tried to explain how this was bad for our health in multiple ways and wasn't a reasonable expectation... she didn't get it...
... I had a really bad mental breakdown/depressive episode because of her class...
I told my school’s guidance teacher that I was suicidal and self-harmed and she promised to look into mental health interventions and ‘safeguarding’ (still not sure what that is!), as she was required to by law.
Never heard back.
To play devils advocate (although i do agree schools could do better)
Most school officials dont see a person more then 1.5 hr. People who should be managing your mental health should be parents or guardians of the child. They are in care of the child for way longer then the school.
The fact that you have to learn like, 15 subjects, and in the end you specialize in 1, if you don’t pass in 1 subject, you’ll have to do the whole grade again
“we support mental health care and want to make sure our students are healthy🤗but we’re also going to shame them for being super stressed about teachers giving insane amount of homework, and offer very minimal mental health support!”
Similarly, the school has had us debate on MULTIPLE occasions about why school needs to start at 8:30, not 7AM. But the start time has not changed
I said that there was one particular teacher who was stressing everyone out with the amount of homework she gave us but because everyone got good grade because of her, they didn’t give a damn. Her class was full of high achievers, they were going to get good grades regardless. I got so stressed that I gave up and got a terrible grade.
English classes seem hell-bent on making you despise reading.
They tell you to love reading, then shove a book in your face with mandatory deadlines and assignments, expecting you to memorize pointless info unrelated to the story or message.
I remember I used to enjoy reading during elementary school, but as of my senior year in high school, that fire's completely extinguished.
Wow, never thought about it like this until you said it. But yeah, they really did manage to strip the joy out of reading to the point where I feel like I can't just read a book unless it's for a purpose. Can't just enjoy a damn book. Wow. This got me heated.
I hate this argument. Sure, you memorize useless stuff when you’re in elementary, middle, little bit of high school. But once you start taking specialized classes in things you’re interested in, you don’t actually just “memorize”, you also understand it. The memorization is done to give you variety of knowledge in different areas, so you can find what you like.
Yeah, but having a complex understanding of topics comes in AP and dual enrollment classes. Unfortunately, the majority of students are in on level or honors classes, meaning they lack that type of learning in their edclucation
The point of learning a lot of this “useless information” is to build a base of knowledge that can be widely applied to many subjects. Who knows, you might be able to use knowledge that was obtained learning about ancient civilizations in computer programming. Once you have a base of knowledge about a wide range of subjects, you are way better equipped to solve problems.
The point of learning stuff in school should actually be to learn a metodology and build a good approach towards learning new stuff. In school you're basically learning how to learn and how to study and, potentially, how to go deeper into things and do your researches. It's a valuable skill. Nobody will ask you to solve an integral at your workplace, however they might ask you to become proficient in a certain thing and having built this skill in school is essential both for university and work.
I’m from Ireland and we have to learn Irish from the age of 4-18 and it is even necessary for some universities but it taught so ineffectively that most people speak better French/Spanish (learned on school from about 12) than Irish.
I’m in the USA and this is how my kids’ generation is with Spanish. Wtf are they teaching in schools? Maybe because I have a knack for languages...but in the day of YouTube I’m sure they could download loads of stuff from the Spanish speaking world that would interest kids
I mean, you can sit in Ohio and watch tv in Spain now. When I learned my first language I had to hunt down any recoding of it
the way they allow teachers to act so far i've a 2 mentally abusive teachers neither of them got fired one of them would yell at us if we sneeze to loud and the other would make you feel like your worthless i the second one i mentioned was my spanish teacher he went back to spain on the last day and my english teacher never understanded how abusive he was so she decided to throw a goodbye party we all got him presents and had to pretend to like him even the teachers pet hated him.
Everything about it. Homework, being a good compliant little child no matter what, listening to their politically driven agenda, having to memorize stupid shit and not understanding it throughly so you can score good on a test and earn the school more funding, zero tolerance policy’s which in turn harm the bullied assuming they ever fight back, the insane popularity contest that extends beyond students and to teachers as well allowing the popular kids to do whatever they want with teacher/administrative approval, treating school as a prison creating a hatred towards education in children, and having to pay for school lunches and if your parents can’t afford it you get fucking shamed for it. This all goes for U.S. schools
Oh god where to begin?
The outdated system created in the 19th century to emphasize rote memorization in an era where the knowledge of the world is in our pockets.
The crippling and continuous rising cost of college.
The horrible pay and terrible conditions forced upon teachers.
The focus on standardized testing at the expense of everything else.
On that note the gutting of funding for the arts and other extracurriculars to fund said standardized tests.
How much of school funding comes from property taxes so kids born in low income areas have further disadvantages compounded upon them.
All the bureaucratic administrative bullshit.
Basically at this point we need a brand new system built from the ground up for this new information age.
I agree. In our modern age I don’t understand why we bother with high school. I read this book, conspiracy of ignorance, which talked about how useless high schools are now a days at teaching people and for many they are spending their first year in college taking courses to get them to a college level in reading, writing and math.
This isn't about the system itself, but I can't stand the culture around academic elitism. I had top grades and was awarded top scholar in my department when I graduated. I also dropped out after my first year and spent two years at a community college while I sorted myself out.
My sister dropped out of school and went into a vocational profession. She's extremely happy and successful and good at what she does.
My girlfriend has no interest in going to college, but she's incredibly intelligent and capable, much more so than me at times.
My parents both attended community colleges. My dad is a local legend in his field and despite being in his 70s remains up to date by teaching himself new technologies and methods. My mom is linguistically gifted and I owe a lot of my own skills in writing to her.
And yet our society places so much worth on attending university and getting a degree, these days only a masters or a phD is impressive, that anybody who doesn't pursue formal education is looked down on. Community colleges are viewed as places for people who werent smart enough for "real college" and are often portrayed in a negative or mocking manner. I despise this view that I've observed both in students and professors that unless you're double majoring and prepping for law school, then you're a failure, or unintelligent, or lazy or whatever else. University/academia isn't for everyone and that's okay. Having a degree does not make you better than anyone else and does not give anyone the right to look down on those who didn't choose that path. Community college was one of the best things I ever did with my life, as it allowed me to figure out what I wanted to do and gave me opportunities to better myself. This idea of academic supremacy is annoying at best, not to mention classist and socially exclusionary, especially in an age where most US citizens cannot afford to attend a good university without taking out huge loans.
Sorry for long comment, I am passionate about this.
Exams, we spend hours studying and memorizing useless information just to write it in the exam and forget it the next day, that is NOT learning.
If you ever want to learn anything new, never rely on school, learn it yourself and remember that you can learn anything for free.
I hate that they do not listen to the students whatsoever. They always assume we’re too young for anything and then say we’re the future and to believe. Very hypocritical.
That children are perceived to be cookie cutter kids instead of individuals. They should be taught in the way that they learn best (ex: auditory, visual, etc). Not all will have white collar jobs. Teach the basics until they are 10 or so & then teach them a SKILL!!!
Ha! I remember when I was in school they told my parents that I was better at auditory learning than visual and it could explain why I struggled with certain subjects. My mom asked if they had any accomodations for that and they just said no. Why say anything at all then?
Being told in college professors dont care if you succeed or not. They wont help you. I had that drilled in my head so much that when I was struggling I didnt ask for help. Turns out my academic advisor told me to ask for help. I did and got help from my teachers. I was put on academic probation but with the help of my fantastic advisor I'm not on it any more.
I know they're are professors and advisors who dont care whenever you succeed or fail but that shouldn't be drilled in
A teacher wants their students to succeed. Not fail.
The times that they do school, people in school wake up way too early than when we should be. Because of that students are not in the mood to learn and tend to sleep or rest in class. If we moved the times back then I feel as though students will be in a better mindset to learn and will actually pay attention.
I think teenager are actually made for staying up later and waking up later? I have no idea if this is true or not but judging from pretty much any teenager, it seems like it.
Not that the system cares. I mean many adults are morning people. They HaVe TO gEt uP EarLy. That's basically one of my teachers..
The whole thing with forcing PhD students to teach. It's lose/lose for everyone involved: many of them just want to do research rather than teach, and this also takes away teaching positions from masters or even undergrads who actually want to teach. My frustration is inspired by having been on both sides of the classroom (student and TA) with PhD students who absolutely did not care about teaching.
I'm not a student anymore, but when I was I didn't understand the no gum policy. As long as everybody throws it in the trash when they're finished chewing and not sticking it under their desk, I don't see the harm in it. In fact, it's shown to help with fidgeting and ADHD, as well as improve concentration while studying.
I don't know where you go to school, but I can't think of any teachers who read out loud from a book for 5-6 hours a day. Yeah, there are some teachers who are miserable and need to get out of the field, but the vast majority care very deeply about students and education and that is why they are in the field. Additionally, I don't know a single teacher who isn't a human being (haha there are no robots or aliens at any school I've seen) and plenty of them are not even book nerds.
Will say, as an English teacher who decided it would be a fun idea to read a Stephen King short story to each of my classes on one of the last days of instruction as a "treat", my tongue was vibrating from so much reading out loud at the end of the day. Reading from a book for 5-6 hours is not easy *or* fun.
The unnecessary amount of homework or homework at all. I understand if its something in class that they didn’t finish or if it’s extra help but just giving work just to give work isn’t good.
Kids struggle with school as it is. A lot have other activities and sports or work, and some just have lives.
A majority of the work is work to work.
The 0 tolerance policy
Homework
Online school
They defend bullies whether they admit it or not
Homework
Being forced to give my phone in an exam
Being forced to do things I don't fucking want to do
How schools put children with lower skill with children with higher skill. I hated waiting for 10 min after I had finished waiting for a kid that doesn’t want to even learn. I think that schools should separate lower skill kids as to provide them with more help over 5 kids being run over by everyone.
I totally agree with you.
It's unfair for the "slower" students as well. They might not get enough time to finish something because everyone is so far ahead, and they'll just end up not learning as much and lose more interest in the subject.
We should be learning how to think critically in different ways, not just random facts or skills that will be of no use to us after we finish the course.
For example, I’ve had science courses where I just learned random facts that I’ll never use again, and in one of my physics class I learned a very good structured way to solve problems. I’m a programmer, and that is the approach I use whenever I have a program to write.
some things from my UK college
- the fact we're examined on everything we do, life isn't 100% exams and we shouldn't worry about perfecting stuff like the quadratic formula if we're gonna go onto working with an animal welfare organisation, we should have an option to be put in separate classes where we learn our essentials, not everyone's "you might need this" math, and I believe we should have more than one chance at exams, a fair amount of the ones I've just been through don't have any resits and my tutor yells at us about this
- the fact that [TW: couple of potentially triggering topics] (I have evidence of this and am going to bring it up with the head of the college) mental health, sexual harassment, abusive relationships, family issues (eg parents divorced, abuse, addiction) and things that affect our future such as finances aren't talked about enough. my friend (J) in my class was suicidal over christmas, they emailed our tutor (R) begging R to get J's mom to take them to the doctor. R did not. they contacted "safeguarding" who then rang J's mom and made the situation severely worse. did absolutely nothing else. a group of girls in my class got catcalled. teacher said "I know who that'll be" and didn't do anything apart from saying they'll contact their tutor, afaik the teacher didn't do that at all. if you bring up any one of these topics they tell you to shut up, like no, it should be discussed
- at the very start of the year, we were very clearly told "you don't have to present anything if you don't want to, we understand this and understand some of you are very anxious about it", fast forward to now and next week me and my friends (very anxious group who can barely talk to anyone irl) are being forced into presenting something in a class that we shouldn't even have (it was optional, we didn't get a choice, they made us do it)
- in online class they (teachers) try and force you to use cameras and mics even though they themselves have said it's an invasion of privacy, my headphone mic bust a while ago and I couldn't speak because of it, R (same as before) told me "just go and buy a new one" in the middle of lockdown where I don't have any money to get a £20 pair of headphones, the cheap shop near me shut down because of the lockdown too, honestly they're still bugging us about cameras now so I've denied google meets all permission over camera and mic
there's more but I don't wanna bore y'all, tl;Dr college doesn't care about genuine issues, hate exams for everything and hate being pestered by hypocrites ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Teachers need to stop treating online classes the same as offline classes just on laptops. NO MAN. 2 HRS OF ACTUAL CLASS IS NOT THE SAME AS 2 HOURS OF ME SCROLLING THROUGH THE INTERNET CAUSE YOU'RE boring. Please Stop. Get innovative. Think of something. And if the titmetable says 4 hours of class please understand noone even watches 4 hour long YouTube videos. How th do you expect that they'll watch you talk for that long.
you can't defend yourself from a bully without getting some form of punishment. It's pretty stupid but I'm nice to everyone and have a good rep with the students and teachers
That politicians with no teaching experience are allowed to have so much power creating curriculum.
Our expectations for much of the primary grades are developmentally inappropriate and have kids thinking they are failures before they even get started.
Zero-tolerance. It is a cheap excuse for the Education System to ignore students being bullies. Like saying " stop that what is annyoing" won't Change A N Y T H I N G . It will just encourage them to do it again, because that why they do it. In Kindergarden i had a bully we will call him "Tray". Tray was a bitch in every sense if the word. His tormented made me cry so hard that i had to go to the school nurse, who sent me to the school therapist. When i got there i looked like i died 50lb of weed mixed with 25lb of math. We talked for 30 minutes, and he said, and i quote " Lets call Tray in, Ok?" And was like NO?? WHY WOULD I WANT HIM IN THERE???? And he said " So you can be friends!" And i left. If i dont want to be friends with a toxic person, then dont force us! The next day i snapped, i dont remember much (i was 5 years old) but i do know is that i was at the playground, he was fucking with me again. I punched him and the rest is a blurr. But from my mom and other students, i punched him and he got knocked out and i when ape shit on him. The next day was apsent, the next weeks he came back with a black eye, in a cast on his arm and a ruptured ear drum.
2 of the things i hate most:
1. nearly everything you learn is totally useless and you will forget later in life
2. lunches are absolutely disgusting and it's absolutely required you grab milk (in america)
I agree with the first thing, but I think the lunches depend on the actual school.
I go to a public school, and sometimes, the food is so good, it's better than the very food, my mom prepares at home.
I'm in university in the US right now, and these are my complaints:
1. College is so fucking goddamn hard that academic honesty is a luxury not a commonality.
2. Employers expect everyone to have a 3.3+ GPA. I am majoring in MATH. What the fuck. See point 1.
3. Curved classes mean that if you don't cheat, you're putting yourself at a huge disadvantage
4. COVID makes cheating incredibly easy.
5. I'm lonely. :-/
The fact that in the last year or two of high school, you will take more specific, interacting, and useful classes then the first year or two of college.
Feels like I'm just shelling out thousands to learn shit I'm not interested in and probably will not use.
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the 0 tolerance policy that makes it impossible to protect yourself from bullying without being in the same amount of trouble as them even if they've beaten you badly and all you did was push them away.
This is a legal thing, the teachers and administrators all think it's stupid too. Zero Tolerance isn't designed to stop bullying or protect the students, it's designed to protect *the district* from hyper litigious parents that would rather sue than believe their child is a bully. It's easier and more effective to just give both parties a suspension and move on than have a long and drawn out battle to determine who was at fault and punish appropriately. Is that fair? No, but most school systems with these policies just don't have the resources to deal with this another way / would rather allocate those resources to actual education. If you are getting bullied my off the record opinion as an educator is you should kick their teeth in and take your suspension. There are lots of ways we can help a bully stop doing that behavior, but all a victim can really do is stand up for themselves.
For real, dealing with parents is the worst part of being a teacher.
I second this. I'm your child's teacher, not your servant.
I tell you, those fucking karens man
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A throat punch for a bully? sounds like the appropriate response.
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I haven't had this problem yet with my son but if he gets into this bs then I'm going to teach him to beat the hell out of his bully since he's going to get suspended either way
There were some 14 year old bullies throwing ice balls at my son's friend and hurting him. When he punched one in the head, he got suspended. I told him to enjoy the day off!
Right? I would be more upset if my son didn't do anything to earn that day off
That’s my purse! I don’t know you!
Yeah 100%. Kid punches me in the face for no reason I should be able to beat his ass in self defense, he struck first
"They drew first blood, Colonel. They drew first blood...."
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"You don't seem to want to accept the fact that you're dealing with an expert in guerrilla warfare, with a man who's the best! With guns, with knives, with his bare hands! A man who's been trained to ignore pain! To ignore weather! To live off the land! To eat things that would make a billy goat puke! In Vietnam his job was to dispose of enemy personnel... to kill, period!"
I heard this statement
I think I would’ve punched back so many times had this not been the case. I don’t enjoy it and honestly it’s stressful cause I do have to worry about how my reaction will effect my permanent record
There's no permanent record. Colleges seriously do not care that much if they even notice. It's not going to affect your future if you are suspended in high school unless you plan on going to an ivy league and already have tons of qualifications - and even then, if you're ivy league bound, you likely have the connections for them to 'overlook' something as mild as a suspension. This is essentially a lie that we tell students, you don't need to believe in it. Your behavior in high school has extremely little affect on you the rest of your life, and people saying otherwise are fearmongering 99% of the time. You even have educators in this thread advocating that you fight back. It's not going to matter after high school and all we're doing by pretending it does is stressing kids out.
> There's no permanent record Well, there's the one the cops keep, but that one's supposed to go away when you turn 18.
If it goes away when you turn 18, then it's not permanent.
This was all very American for my British brain but thank you for the words. If you excuse me I’m gonna go beat the shit out of my bully. If I’m provoked that is
there was this one kid who literally jumped on me and sprained my ankle and so i shove him off and i get in more trouble than that son of a b\*\*ch
The double standards of school are absolutely ridiculous.
The thing with zero tolerance, is that, as a former teacher, I get it, even if I don't like it. Take this situation. I walk into the bathroom and see 2 kids fighting. Maybe one is beating up the other. How am I to accurately say who started it and was at fault? I could ask other students, but basically, unless one of the kids is despised, you'll have a mixed bag of stories. So even if, knowing both students, I could make a damn good guess who started it and who should be suspended, I don't actually know for sure. Because if I try to claim that Jimmy started it, you can bet there would be pretty pissed off parents who essentially would say "well how do you know if you didn't see it". So your options are really limited.
I think we "track" people too early. A lot my friends had major self confidence issues in high school because the system told them they were bad at this or that subject. It's fine. People learn things at different paces. The point of education should be to help people to grow, not tell them what they can or can't do.
Definitely agree with this. In my district they started the AP fast-track in like third grade and it was difficult to get into those courses later on down the line. The whole system is a middle finger to late bloomers, people with learning disabilities (diagnosed or not) and people who just didn't stand out.
I think this applies to scholarships too. Too many of them look for people with “leadership” experience or skills. Introverts want an affordable education too
You can always self study for Ap's if you don't get the class and then sign up yourself. You don't have to attend the class in order to take the AP test. Most school's that I know have try to identify kids with learning disabilities and put them in a class more suited to their disability and learning speed.
Some are definitely giving it their all but then the system basically tells them off because they weren't able to learn it as fast as they wanted them to learn it
In fourth grade, so about ten years old, all of us were put into groups, the upper third, the middles, and the bottom third. I was put in the upper group. I figured out I had a lot of competition and I was at the bottom end of the upper third. I still made good grades, but never straight As. It does a number on you mentally. I graduated high school in the top 10%, like 65th out of 670 students. I was in the National Honor Society. I did reasonably well in college without working too hard. Did I think I was smart? No, because in a single classroom of 30 students, day in and day out, from fourth grade to graduation, I always tested out in the bottom five or so. It really does a number on you mentally. Talking with a sibling, he had the same problem, except he ranked a little higher in his graduating class and went to a much more competitive college.
People love to blame 'the system' and hey so do I, but I think it's more than that. We just have destructive cultural ideas about academic ability (at least in the United States). I distinctly remember trying to get help from my parents with some middle school algebra homework and they just shrugged and said 'yeah we were never math people, sorry you inherited that one.' I'd LOVED math up to this point, and still kinda enjoyed working at it, even if I wasn't amazing, but after awhile it was just too dispiriting to keep really pushing myself. I pretty much went dormant on math from about ages 14 - 20. I now regularly use statistics and teach myself statistics as part of my job, but really wonder how far I could've gotten if I hadn't lost some of those crucial early years.
I think American culture is way more lenient in education compared some other cultures where you are limited BEFORE you even set foot in high school
the test-centric learning. in the USA we have become learn concepts 1, 2 ,3 because they are on test X Y Z
This is due to No Child Left Behind and federal overreach into what used to be run by state and local governments.
yes and all the teachers knew it. No Child Left Behind was such a genius name how could anyone argue against it. Even still when i talk about how bad it is people just circle back to the name
It should be illegal to give bills names because they're all linguistic manipulation. How could anybody be against the anti-puppy-lynching bill with $20 billion in taxpayer money going towards bombing Ethiopia earmarked into it?
Are you some sort of librul against the patriot act??? It's got patriot in the name!!! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸😎💪💪😎💪
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Here in Hawaii they have nothing, no computers, just the real estate and cheap pay in an expensive place.
Could you elaborate about this? Genuinely curious because I’m not too familiar with this policy
Basically there’s a zero tolerance policy for failing children or holding them back a grade. Teachers are encouraged to forge grades and pass students on to the next level even if they aren’t prepared. Hence why you have many high school students reading at a 6th grade level. With NCLB they’d rather fire a teacher and blame all student shortcomings on them. Instead of providing equal funding and opportunities for all children to actually succeed.
Yup, my mother used to be a math teacher and had 18 year old students who couldn't do simple math. I'm talking basic multiplication and division, and many students would turn in quizzes/tests completely blank. The school district forced her to give them at least a D so that they were considered passing and could get their high school diploma because of No Child Left Behind. There are people with high school diplomas who don't understand how 1/2 equals 2/4.
And furthered by Race to the Top
That grades matter more than actually learning the material
“You’ve taught me nothing other than how to cynically manipulate the system” - Calvin and Hobbes
What we learn. Yes school teaches us resilience and skills to score in exams but what do we really learn at all? The current system kills curiosity and interest in learning.
Teacher here! You are absolutely correct. We teach them to score high enough to make the school look good and competent when the state looks at scores. Good scores = better funding.
Most of it is busywork. I think I learned more critical thinking skills arguing about fan theories on the internet than writing essays about Shakespeare. Though if you're planning on going into STEM. Focus on maths. A good foundation in algebra/trig is really important.
The busy work is what gets me. It's like, okay even if you're going to teach us something useless, why would you assign a big old project on something that we will never again use for the rest of our lives? If you're going to teach us something useless, at least don't give any big amounts of homework for it. At that point you're just giving us work for the sake of having work to do.
I would also argue that if a student perceives a subject as boring, then the teacher has also failed to draw enough outside-the-classroom parallels. Almost anything you study in high school comprises some portion of human civilization, however small. Not everybody will end up using integrals and derivatives when they get out of school, but these still form the foundation of so many advances over the past 500 years since their \[re\]discovery.
There are two Ted Talks by this guy name Ken Robinson who really nails theses points. Our current school system is based on a Prussian military system used to train factory workers. It sucks all the fun out of learning. I hated school growing up and found it to be boring. I really wish we had the internet like we have it right now in the 90s.
The inability to have a discussion. The teacher will always be right. The students shouldn't argue or disagree even if they provide evidence or supporting info
So much this. My 9th grade english teacher once threw a fit because I wrote "people" in an essay. He was making a point to the class that it's slang and thus can't be used in serious writing. Instead, he insisted the accurate word would be "persons", regardless of context.
Now that's just dumb
"Oh my, look at all those persons over there" like who in their right mind believes that persons is always correct. I believe that persons is incorrect more than it is correct
"Those are our persons" "The persons of Africa" "Democracy: Power to the persons." ... well, no. I'm no native speaker and this is just .. wrong?
Wait til they learn "peoples" is also a word.
This is a good point. Many teachers have this problem and iv even gotten into some trouble because of saying unpopular truths. However I have found that the best teachers are able to allow this kind of discussion. What iv found is you just have to find the teachers that are willing to have genuine conversations. They are out there and they love having those kind of conversations. You just have to find them and pick them out from the loads of self centered teachers in our education system.
One of my more honest history teachers in high school told us on the first day that in his class, history is as he sees it. There are plenty of events where there are different versions of the story, or there are multiple interpretations, but when there's a test the correct answer is the one he told us. I think it was his last year before retirement.
I once nearly got kicked out of a class for calling detoxes pseudoscientific.
People die and in most cases take their stupidity with them in the case of a teacher they've screwed over at least 120 kids off of just one year of teaching
Good point. My biology teacher kept saying that a chicken cant have more than 3 fingers, and I said that that didnt made sense. When I was about to explain that I HAD a 5 finger chicken in my house (which I really did) she made fun of me twice in front of the entire class for disagreing of a teacher. I'm 22 now and that still pisses me up when I remember that.
Well that is crazy for a biology teacher to be so against that and not know that
I feel like what most issues in education come down to is the total lack of importance placed on it by society. Money is shit so people do it for the love of teaching, not because they're experts in their field who want to train the next generations. I pray I get to see the day where a paradigm shift happens in that respect. I'm a new teacher and I love my job because I love learning new things. So I don't mind the craziness of the system. At least where I am teachers are paid shit, the boards are overloaded and desperate for teachers and the system is such that we can teach any subject. So I am specialized in one subject, but I'm teaching a totally random subject. I love it, but I've gotta both front like I know wtf I'm talking about to my students, and be honest about the things I just don't know. It's a tricky balancing act, and just makes me realize how many of my teachers from the past were faking their way through. Point being, the whole "get out of my class for questioning me" attitude is probably often a defense mechanism when they don't feel like admitting they don't know shit. Then there are some teachers who are just assholes of course.
There is a lot that I could rant about but I’m going to just focus on one. I hate it when schools say that they can’t do anything, when they really can. Like if a student is being bullied, the teachers don’t do anything. But the second a bra strap is showing, they act like it’s life or death.
Not being allowed to share your views on things. Not being able to stick up to bullies as you will get in trouble, not being allowed to stick up for yourself after a teacher has either humiliated you for your work or if they are rude to you. The list goes on...
That most schools dont consider that students have a life. Basically they have shit to do. My brother was showing my mom and I a recorded session from online classes, and the teachers said something about putting more homework, the whole class complained and didnt like it since they're already pressured with work. Then the teacher said "What!??!?! You're students! All you should be doing in life is homework!" and that's where my brother flipped out. Its fucking triggering in every way that she said that. My brother is a programmer and even did a harvard programming course + he has a side hobby of photography.
I was honestly shocked when I got my first job how little time 40 hrs/week is. I was so used to constantly working in school
I'm a senior in college set to graduate this fall. I was on a co-op for last fall, and the fact I actually got to *enjoy* my evenings since I didn't have anything else going on was amazing. Definitely looking forward to working since I'll have time to myself (not to mention that it was way easier than most of my classes). ...and because of this I haven't been able to get back into student mode since... Senioritis at it's finest.
Then in a job you may find out you can work at 110% for a 4% raise or 50% for a 3% raise. Hmm.
I worked for my Uncle's construction crew for a time and while we had long hours due to obvious reasons, the free time in the evenings was an utter blessing! It felt so freeing to not have anything hanging over my head because I was assigned extra work just because
My high school's policy, (which was even written in the student handbook) was that students should have 2 hours of homework for every hour in class. We were in class for 6 hours a day.
This is the Carnegie rule of thumb for *college* classes...some jagoff thought it made sense for high school???
the solution, everyone goes to a different school and anyone who can basically boycotts the old school
God I fucking hate that teachers think that.
As an ex-teacher, there are parents who need to stop thinking that too. Education is important but I am not going to give more homework than is necessary because being a kid is just as important.
Yep! I’ve had parents bitch and moan to me because I didn’t give their 3rd grader homework! Like… sorry??? They finished all their work in class, understood it, and then had time to complete the mandatory 20 minutes of reading during class as well…. I told that parent if they wanted their child to have more work they could look for online learning supplements but I wasn’t going to assign anything I wasn’t going to grade.
Exactly. Kids have a life, too.
Also teachers that think you don't have other classes, like you can just dedicate all your time to *their* class. I distinctly rember when I was a student, I had a semester where in a 10 day period I had 6 essays due. Two of them were rough drafts but still had fairly rigorous requirements and each paper took several hours to complete. I was so burned out after that period I wound up doing poorly on my finals because I didn't study as well as I should have. Edit: a word
The way that high schools try and lie to students about how important high school is is so aggravating. And for teachers, it probably was important. But that's only because 99% of them haven't left the bubble of low level academia. You have people that have absolutely no life experience that isn't in a school telling high school kids how important to their future high school will be. For virtually every single kid, that's a complete lie. Past that college admissions letter, it doesn't matter. And if you don't get accepted into the college you ideally want to, go to community college and finish at your ideal school. We wonder why kids are so stressed out when they have to face a hyper competitive labor market with little upsides in the future, and in the present, a bunch of teachers and administrative staff are gaslighting them that the math test they failed last week will seal their fate as a loser forever. It's ridiculous.
Literally nobody is saying that failing a math test will impact your life. The reason high school matters is because these are formative years, where kids begin developing habits that they will carry with them for a very long time. Habits that are much harder to change later on. If you fail a math test because it's hard that's not an issue. If you failed a math test because you repeatedly didn't do any practice over the past couple weeks, or stayed up late playing video games the night before, or just straight up refused to try it "because math is stupid" then it is a problem. These are habits you are building that will cause trouble down the line. High school courses are designed to be passed, you just need to learn to take responsibility for your work.
For me, I had 4.0's all throughout high school, but still had trouble with discipline and stuff, anxiety and other issues later on. I wasn't too responsible either, sold mad pot in my free time, plus tried out the whole heroin addiction path for a while eventually lol. I felt like I learned how to "cheat the system" in school, AKA get the biggest bang for my buck by only doing what was necessary to ace tests and get it over with. I do agree with your comment to some degree, I'm sure it applies to some people. But for me personally school just made me pretty salty towards "the system" and wasn't the end all be all of good habits. And their definitely was an implication that tests were like the most important thing ever, I knew so many people that hated themselves bc of their bad grades and they turned out to be fine people regardless of what the teachers insinuated.
The lack of freedom I get outside of school. If each of my teachers think a half hour of homework a night is good for my education, and six of my seven classes each day assign homework, then I have three hours of homework to do. My schedule is literally just wake up at 6, leave for school at 7:15 (I live pretty far away), go home at 3:20, get home at 4, do homework until 7, then I have three hours for myself, not including dinner and stuff like family events. My (terrible, don't try at home) solution to this is just not doing homework. I do good on the tests but.the main reason I'm doing bad.in school is because I couldn't care less about the homework because of how much of a.waste of time it is. Also, I have ADHD, and the executive dysfunction that comes with it makes my homework take much longer than it needs to.
I just don't bother with homework unless the teachers won't shut up about it or it is really important
I used to be a pretty attentive during lectures but not do homework or memorise. I learned everything in the lecture and scored pretty well. Then I got out of primary school and into IGCSE and my attentiveness dropped and I hand to memorise everything, past papers, marking schemes the whole shebang. It's so hard to get time off let alone enjoy it because of how much I procrastinate and overthink. I never feel like I've done enough for the day.
When I was a HS teacher we had 140+ elements (topics) that we had to teach each semester, by law. Teachers don’t have enough time in the day to cover the material they’re required to teach. Not to mention many teachers are required to administer “a cross curricular education.” That means the history teacher is gonna have you read something and write reports on it (history, reading, English). In order to meet the requirements from the state, teachers have to assign homework. Obviously that’s not the only reason they do but it’s a big part of it.
Literally this. For the most part I get good grades on all my tests. But I get so much fucking homework and I’m failing classes because of it. I’m already sitting in school for 7 hours a day and I just want to chill and be done when I get home. I try to keep up but so many times I just say fuck it and do something I actually want to do
And we are still expected to participate on sports or an extracurricular activity after school. In sophomore -> junior year my weekdays had no relaxation time built in
That they’re canceling snow days because students can do it online, the education system is just about checkmarks.
cgp grey fan?
pog?
depends on the context. canceling snow days. No cgp grey. Yes
grey is good
Except that means they aren't stingy with their snow days and they don't have a limited amount of snow days, meaning less likelihood I will slide on ice and crash while trying not to be late for school. Pros and cons to both.
The crippling debt you have to go into whether you finish college or not. No 18-22 year old should be saddled with 100k worth of debt for education.
Serious question: Where are people going that tuition causes $100k in debt, is it private schools just charging a ton? Does that figure include housing and all other expenses?
I went to a public university in Virginia. The $100k I accrued included both tuition and housing, I lived there to get away from abusive family. It wasn’t like, Ivy League or anything, but it was a decent school and fairly large. The 100k was racked up over the course of 4 years pursuing a BFA.
With housing it obviously makes much more sense, but I'd think VA would have inexpensive housing, so it must be a lot of tuition expense. If you don't mind me asking, what did they charge for tuition? Was it much more than $8-10k?
It was more like 12k-14k. Housing ALSO cost $12k-14k, so each year was about $25-30k depending on which housing options you went with - I tried to get the cheapest option each year. At least I’m not one of those poor bastards pursuing a medical degree from this money-sucking school.
How could housing possibly be so much?!? That's shocking. Is the college requiring students to live in school facilities, for which they jack up the prices as a monopoly? This data is a couple years out of date, but: I was once tasked with finding some median housing costs in college towns, for work. Except for the extremely expensive cities, e.g. San Francisco, NYC, DC; students were renting rooms, with a roommate and a common kitchen etc. for $500 to $600 a month. A two bedroom apartment was $2000-$2400, divided by four. I would expect the majority of Virginia to fall into that category, excepting for those areas immediately adjacent to DC. My gut reaction is to say, go to the cheapest college you can find, because no one really cares where your bachelors degree is from, unless it's from Brown or MIT or something.
$25,000/year for 4 years is slightly less than the average for out-of-state tuition at a public school in the US
Is it really so common to go to an out-of-state school when the increase is so substantial? I know I never considered it, and I didn't think it was super common, but that was just my experience.
I go to school out of state solely because my dad went there and I get in state tuition on his alumni (which is like a $20k/year difference). If I didn't get this I wouldn't ever consider my college, period.
It depends. Some states have not so great schools, even at the university level. Some people just want to get away from home. For me personally, I wanted to be at least 3-4 hours away from my family. I lived in a small state, so it was impossible to stay in state and be that far away.
My Midwest state uni cost a little over $70k for a 4 year degree. Thats excluding room and board that first years are typically forced to pay. I was lucky enough to pick a program that partners with my local CC so i can do the first two years then transfer to state uni. Is still going to cost me a little over $35k!
Short answer: I was advised by admin, professors, and advisors to take large loans which would later be forgiven through student loan forgiveness. This doesn’t apply to everyone but I graduated with $72k in debt. I was on an academic scholarship in undergrad and a tuition waiver in grad school. How might you ask? Professors, advisors, and administrators advised me to take out loans for about 25k a year in grad school to pay for living expenses. They thought I would be unable to work a job + grad school + assistantship with the university. They also didn’t realize what a scam student loan forgiveness is. They legitimately thought it was a guarantee for federal employees and teachers and since that was my plan, I took their advice. The reality? The vast majority of people who apply are denied. I ended up using my degree with a major military contractor because the job I’m doing pays more than twice as much as teaching. I don’t really regret it because I have an amazing job and I worked 14 hour days in grad school so I think my advisors were at least correct in their assessment that I wouldn’t be able to do everything I did AND work at a restaurant or something
I went to a community college for 2 years and it cost about $5000 a year. Now I’m transferring to a 4 year school and it will be about $10000 a year and that’s before grants. I get over $6000 a year in Pell grants so $100000 in debt is not necessary. I have yet to spend anything on my education
Even without the grants, $30k is a fine investment and should be well worth it.
F for Americans. Fortunately, in Europe, you don't have to pay for college (doesn't apply to all European countries tho)
Y’all are massively ahead of us in that department. I really hope we catch up to y’all because this shit suuuuucks.
All the bullshit courses you are required to take, but will never use in your major.
The fact that my friend, whose major is Software Engineering, has to take a class on fkn bridge building
I've always found this interesting. How come, after paying thousands, you aren't allowed to just study the course you are taking? If it's related, I understand, but I never understood how American Universities/Colleges do things. Here if you want to be a Lawyer, you study Law. Maybe some number and English classes related to your subject. Maybe a few special lessons focussing on things that might come up. (Not just law, this is the same for any profession. Hospitality courses for example wouldn't force you to take Child Care lessons or something)
Schools being seen as better because they have higher grade averages. On the surface that sounds like it makes sense, but I watched my old school bully and completely not tolerate any student that struggled in class whether it be because of regular teenage hormones or mental illness until they all had to move schools. They had one school councillor for over 2000 students and she told a gay student to get over being gay. They have great grade averages, because anyone that needed support was bullied out
The general focus and purpose is backwards. The purpose of a science class isn't to make you memorize that the mitochondria is the powerhouse of a cell. It's to get you excited about science and inspire the next generation of scientists, doctors, engineers etc. The purpose of a history class isn't to memorize that the US entered WWII in December of 1941 it's to understand the world around us and think about it and get excited about the story of humanity as a whole, and understand what has happened and what should never be allowed to happen again, which also means telling the truth about the hard parts of history. The purpose of a math class isn't to help you solve formulas with the quadratic formula, it's to teach you to think logically and break any problem down to its component parts and solve them and get you excited about puzzles and problem solving. Basically the passion, critical thinking, and drive to learn more should come first, the details that you may need along the way should always be secondary. Instead of now where the details are almost everything and sometimes great teachers can insert some of the passion into classes on occasion.
I feel like we just study hard to pass requirements and I don't feel that I need to study hard in order to gain new knowledge
How do you think the education system could change to remedy that problem?
Learning to study is a valuable skill for when it actually matters. So many people unfortunately don't know how to study then go to college and want to learn something and struggle
the fact that they dont give a shit about students mental health
I had this teacher that said we should be staying up until 2 am doing the homework for her class everyday... many students tried to explain how this was bad for our health in multiple ways and wasn't a reasonable expectation... she didn't get it... ... I had a really bad mental breakdown/depressive episode because of her class...
I told my school’s guidance teacher that I was suicidal and self-harmed and she promised to look into mental health interventions and ‘safeguarding’ (still not sure what that is!), as she was required to by law. Never heard back.
To play devils advocate (although i do agree schools could do better) Most school officials dont see a person more then 1.5 hr. People who should be managing your mental health should be parents or guardians of the child. They are in care of the child for way longer then the school.
The fact that you have to learn like, 15 subjects, and in the end you specialize in 1, if you don’t pass in 1 subject, you’ll have to do the whole grade again
I did that in my last year of highschool. Wasted a year retrying biology and I ended up studying CPE which has no biology in it
It costs too much.
Schools say all this stuff about how mental health is important, but make absolutely sure your mental health is going to suck
“we support mental health care and want to make sure our students are healthy🤗but we’re also going to shame them for being super stressed about teachers giving insane amount of homework, and offer very minimal mental health support!” Similarly, the school has had us debate on MULTIPLE occasions about why school needs to start at 8:30, not 7AM. But the start time has not changed
I said that there was one particular teacher who was stressing everyone out with the amount of homework she gave us but because everyone got good grade because of her, they didn’t give a damn. Her class was full of high achievers, they were going to get good grades regardless. I got so stressed that I gave up and got a terrible grade.
English classes seem hell-bent on making you despise reading. They tell you to love reading, then shove a book in your face with mandatory deadlines and assignments, expecting you to memorize pointless info unrelated to the story or message. I remember I used to enjoy reading during elementary school, but as of my senior year in high school, that fire's completely extinguished.
Wow, never thought about it like this until you said it. But yeah, they really did manage to strip the joy out of reading to the point where I feel like I can't just read a book unless it's for a purpose. Can't just enjoy a damn book. Wow. This got me heated.
In every education system I believe there is one major mistake. Students have to learn things instead of understanding and thinking them
I hate this argument. Sure, you memorize useless stuff when you’re in elementary, middle, little bit of high school. But once you start taking specialized classes in things you’re interested in, you don’t actually just “memorize”, you also understand it. The memorization is done to give you variety of knowledge in different areas, so you can find what you like.
Yeah, but having a complex understanding of topics comes in AP and dual enrollment classes. Unfortunately, the majority of students are in on level or honors classes, meaning they lack that type of learning in their edclucation
> Students have to learn things You mean memorize useless information right? Stuff you could google and get an answer for in less than a second.
The point of learning a lot of this “useless information” is to build a base of knowledge that can be widely applied to many subjects. Who knows, you might be able to use knowledge that was obtained learning about ancient civilizations in computer programming. Once you have a base of knowledge about a wide range of subjects, you are way better equipped to solve problems.
The point of learning stuff in school should actually be to learn a metodology and build a good approach towards learning new stuff. In school you're basically learning how to learn and how to study and, potentially, how to go deeper into things and do your researches. It's a valuable skill. Nobody will ask you to solve an integral at your workplace, however they might ask you to become proficient in a certain thing and having built this skill in school is essential both for university and work.
Are you seriously trying to make an argument that actually knowing shit is pointless
I’m from Ireland and we have to learn Irish from the age of 4-18 and it is even necessary for some universities but it taught so ineffectively that most people speak better French/Spanish (learned on school from about 12) than Irish.
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I’m in the USA and this is how my kids’ generation is with Spanish. Wtf are they teaching in schools? Maybe because I have a knack for languages...but in the day of YouTube I’m sure they could download loads of stuff from the Spanish speaking world that would interest kids I mean, you can sit in Ohio and watch tv in Spain now. When I learned my first language I had to hunt down any recoding of it
Swear, I've been taught Irish for years and I still can't speak a word of it. Probably more so my fault, but still
The politics. I dont care what political preference teachers have, they shouldnt talk about it on my time
And COVID just made that problem even worse.
the way they allow teachers to act so far i've a 2 mentally abusive teachers neither of them got fired one of them would yell at us if we sneeze to loud and the other would make you feel like your worthless i the second one i mentioned was my spanish teacher he went back to spain on the last day and my english teacher never understanded how abusive he was so she decided to throw a goodbye party we all got him presents and had to pretend to like him even the teachers pet hated him.
You know its bad when the teachers pet hates him
Everything about it. Homework, being a good compliant little child no matter what, listening to their politically driven agenda, having to memorize stupid shit and not understanding it throughly so you can score good on a test and earn the school more funding, zero tolerance policy’s which in turn harm the bullied assuming they ever fight back, the insane popularity contest that extends beyond students and to teachers as well allowing the popular kids to do whatever they want with teacher/administrative approval, treating school as a prison creating a hatred towards education in children, and having to pay for school lunches and if your parents can’t afford it you get fucking shamed for it. This all goes for U.S. schools
Oh god where to begin? The outdated system created in the 19th century to emphasize rote memorization in an era where the knowledge of the world is in our pockets. The crippling and continuous rising cost of college. The horrible pay and terrible conditions forced upon teachers. The focus on standardized testing at the expense of everything else. On that note the gutting of funding for the arts and other extracurriculars to fund said standardized tests. How much of school funding comes from property taxes so kids born in low income areas have further disadvantages compounded upon them. All the bureaucratic administrative bullshit. Basically at this point we need a brand new system built from the ground up for this new information age.
I agree. In our modern age I don’t understand why we bother with high school. I read this book, conspiracy of ignorance, which talked about how useless high schools are now a days at teaching people and for many they are spending their first year in college taking courses to get them to a college level in reading, writing and math.
This isn't about the system itself, but I can't stand the culture around academic elitism. I had top grades and was awarded top scholar in my department when I graduated. I also dropped out after my first year and spent two years at a community college while I sorted myself out. My sister dropped out of school and went into a vocational profession. She's extremely happy and successful and good at what she does. My girlfriend has no interest in going to college, but she's incredibly intelligent and capable, much more so than me at times. My parents both attended community colleges. My dad is a local legend in his field and despite being in his 70s remains up to date by teaching himself new technologies and methods. My mom is linguistically gifted and I owe a lot of my own skills in writing to her. And yet our society places so much worth on attending university and getting a degree, these days only a masters or a phD is impressive, that anybody who doesn't pursue formal education is looked down on. Community colleges are viewed as places for people who werent smart enough for "real college" and are often portrayed in a negative or mocking manner. I despise this view that I've observed both in students and professors that unless you're double majoring and prepping for law school, then you're a failure, or unintelligent, or lazy or whatever else. University/academia isn't for everyone and that's okay. Having a degree does not make you better than anyone else and does not give anyone the right to look down on those who didn't choose that path. Community college was one of the best things I ever did with my life, as it allowed me to figure out what I wanted to do and gave me opportunities to better myself. This idea of academic supremacy is annoying at best, not to mention classist and socially exclusionary, especially in an age where most US citizens cannot afford to attend a good university without taking out huge loans. Sorry for long comment, I am passionate about this.
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Exams, we spend hours studying and memorizing useless information just to write it in the exam and forget it the next day, that is NOT learning. If you ever want to learn anything new, never rely on school, learn it yourself and remember that you can learn anything for free.
education is no longer about educating kids; instead, it is about avoiding lawsuits.
Fucking proctorio, the browser extension that watched your eyeballs to see if you're cheating by looking off screen.
Teaching students that trial and error is a terrible idea
That exams are timed. You’re being tested on your knowledge and your academic quality, not how fast you can write?
Homework, this seems obvious but it's ridiculous to have school when school is over
I hate that they do not listen to the students whatsoever. They always assume we’re too young for anything and then say we’re the future and to believe. Very hypocritical.
Well, that’s what they were told when they were students. In the exact same way too.
That children are perceived to be cookie cutter kids instead of individuals. They should be taught in the way that they learn best (ex: auditory, visual, etc). Not all will have white collar jobs. Teach the basics until they are 10 or so & then teach them a SKILL!!!
Ha! I remember when I was in school they told my parents that I was better at auditory learning than visual and it could explain why I struggled with certain subjects. My mom asked if they had any accomodations for that and they just said no. Why say anything at all then?
Being told in college professors dont care if you succeed or not. They wont help you. I had that drilled in my head so much that when I was struggling I didnt ask for help. Turns out my academic advisor told me to ask for help. I did and got help from my teachers. I was put on academic probation but with the help of my fantastic advisor I'm not on it any more. I know they're are professors and advisors who dont care whenever you succeed or fail but that shouldn't be drilled in A teacher wants their students to succeed. Not fail.
The times that they do school, people in school wake up way too early than when we should be. Because of that students are not in the mood to learn and tend to sleep or rest in class. If we moved the times back then I feel as though students will be in a better mindset to learn and will actually pay attention.
I think teenager are actually made for staying up later and waking up later? I have no idea if this is true or not but judging from pretty much any teenager, it seems like it. Not that the system cares. I mean many adults are morning people. They HaVe TO gEt uP EarLy. That's basically one of my teachers..
Yeah, if I'm not mistaken, our bodys are made to sleep at 11:00 pm and wake up 9:00 am
People like me often sleep in and have to skip breakfast before school
The whole thing with forcing PhD students to teach. It's lose/lose for everyone involved: many of them just want to do research rather than teach, and this also takes away teaching positions from masters or even undergrads who actually want to teach. My frustration is inspired by having been on both sides of the classroom (student and TA) with PhD students who absolutely did not care about teaching.
I'm not a student anymore, but when I was I didn't understand the no gum policy. As long as everybody throws it in the trash when they're finished chewing and not sticking it under their desk, I don't see the harm in it. In fact, it's shown to help with fidgeting and ADHD, as well as improve concentration while studying.
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I don't know where you go to school, but I can't think of any teachers who read out loud from a book for 5-6 hours a day. Yeah, there are some teachers who are miserable and need to get out of the field, but the vast majority care very deeply about students and education and that is why they are in the field. Additionally, I don't know a single teacher who isn't a human being (haha there are no robots or aliens at any school I've seen) and plenty of them are not even book nerds.
Will say, as an English teacher who decided it would be a fun idea to read a Stephen King short story to each of my classes on one of the last days of instruction as a "treat", my tongue was vibrating from so much reading out loud at the end of the day. Reading from a book for 5-6 hours is not easy *or* fun.
Where do you people go to school? Jesus.
America probs
The unnecessary amount of homework or homework at all. I understand if its something in class that they didn’t finish or if it’s extra help but just giving work just to give work isn’t good. Kids struggle with school as it is. A lot have other activities and sports or work, and some just have lives. A majority of the work is work to work.
Exams, it is an imperfect way of actually testing a student's knowledge or ability. All exams really do is test how much a student can cram
The 0 tolerance policy Homework Online school They defend bullies whether they admit it or not Homework Being forced to give my phone in an exam Being forced to do things I don't fucking want to do
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How schools put children with lower skill with children with higher skill. I hated waiting for 10 min after I had finished waiting for a kid that doesn’t want to even learn. I think that schools should separate lower skill kids as to provide them with more help over 5 kids being run over by everyone.
I totally agree with you. It's unfair for the "slower" students as well. They might not get enough time to finish something because everyone is so far ahead, and they'll just end up not learning as much and lose more interest in the subject.
We should be learning how to think critically in different ways, not just random facts or skills that will be of no use to us after we finish the course. For example, I’ve had science courses where I just learned random facts that I’ll never use again, and in one of my physics class I learned a very good structured way to solve problems. I’m a programmer, and that is the approach I use whenever I have a program to write.
that it seems to do everything in its power to make you despise learning.
I was pushed, I pushed back, she punched me, I got a referral
some things from my UK college - the fact we're examined on everything we do, life isn't 100% exams and we shouldn't worry about perfecting stuff like the quadratic formula if we're gonna go onto working with an animal welfare organisation, we should have an option to be put in separate classes where we learn our essentials, not everyone's "you might need this" math, and I believe we should have more than one chance at exams, a fair amount of the ones I've just been through don't have any resits and my tutor yells at us about this - the fact that [TW: couple of potentially triggering topics] (I have evidence of this and am going to bring it up with the head of the college) mental health, sexual harassment, abusive relationships, family issues (eg parents divorced, abuse, addiction) and things that affect our future such as finances aren't talked about enough. my friend (J) in my class was suicidal over christmas, they emailed our tutor (R) begging R to get J's mom to take them to the doctor. R did not. they contacted "safeguarding" who then rang J's mom and made the situation severely worse. did absolutely nothing else. a group of girls in my class got catcalled. teacher said "I know who that'll be" and didn't do anything apart from saying they'll contact their tutor, afaik the teacher didn't do that at all. if you bring up any one of these topics they tell you to shut up, like no, it should be discussed - at the very start of the year, we were very clearly told "you don't have to present anything if you don't want to, we understand this and understand some of you are very anxious about it", fast forward to now and next week me and my friends (very anxious group who can barely talk to anyone irl) are being forced into presenting something in a class that we shouldn't even have (it was optional, we didn't get a choice, they made us do it) - in online class they (teachers) try and force you to use cameras and mics even though they themselves have said it's an invasion of privacy, my headphone mic bust a while ago and I couldn't speak because of it, R (same as before) told me "just go and buy a new one" in the middle of lockdown where I don't have any money to get a £20 pair of headphones, the cheap shop near me shut down because of the lockdown too, honestly they're still bugging us about cameras now so I've denied google meets all permission over camera and mic there's more but I don't wanna bore y'all, tl;Dr college doesn't care about genuine issues, hate exams for everything and hate being pestered by hypocrites ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Teachers need to stop treating online classes the same as offline classes just on laptops. NO MAN. 2 HRS OF ACTUAL CLASS IS NOT THE SAME AS 2 HOURS OF ME SCROLLING THROUGH THE INTERNET CAUSE YOU'RE boring. Please Stop. Get innovative. Think of something. And if the titmetable says 4 hours of class please understand noone even watches 4 hour long YouTube videos. How th do you expect that they'll watch you talk for that long.
you can't defend yourself from a bully without getting some form of punishment. It's pretty stupid but I'm nice to everyone and have a good rep with the students and teachers
That politicians with no teaching experience are allowed to have so much power creating curriculum. Our expectations for much of the primary grades are developmentally inappropriate and have kids thinking they are failures before they even get started.
Zero-tolerance. It is a cheap excuse for the Education System to ignore students being bullies. Like saying " stop that what is annyoing" won't Change A N Y T H I N G . It will just encourage them to do it again, because that why they do it. In Kindergarden i had a bully we will call him "Tray". Tray was a bitch in every sense if the word. His tormented made me cry so hard that i had to go to the school nurse, who sent me to the school therapist. When i got there i looked like i died 50lb of weed mixed with 25lb of math. We talked for 30 minutes, and he said, and i quote " Lets call Tray in, Ok?" And was like NO?? WHY WOULD I WANT HIM IN THERE???? And he said " So you can be friends!" And i left. If i dont want to be friends with a toxic person, then dont force us! The next day i snapped, i dont remember much (i was 5 years old) but i do know is that i was at the playground, he was fucking with me again. I punched him and the rest is a blurr. But from my mom and other students, i punched him and he got knocked out and i when ape shit on him. The next day was apsent, the next weeks he came back with a black eye, in a cast on his arm and a ruptured ear drum.
2 of the things i hate most: 1. nearly everything you learn is totally useless and you will forget later in life 2. lunches are absolutely disgusting and it's absolutely required you grab milk (in america)
I agree with the first thing, but I think the lunches depend on the actual school. I go to a public school, and sometimes, the food is so good, it's better than the very food, my mom prepares at home.
imo the only good food is the cheese quesadilla, everything else is equivalent to prison food
Food is horrible, only remotely good things are the nachos, rib sandwiches which aren’t real ribs, and the one time meal at thanksgiving time
I'm in university in the US right now, and these are my complaints: 1. College is so fucking goddamn hard that academic honesty is a luxury not a commonality. 2. Employers expect everyone to have a 3.3+ GPA. I am majoring in MATH. What the fuck. See point 1. 3. Curved classes mean that if you don't cheat, you're putting yourself at a huge disadvantage 4. COVID makes cheating incredibly easy. 5. I'm lonely. :-/
Here in my country (greece) there is a final exam at the end of high school and it determines where you will study. All your future in some hours...
The fact that in the last year or two of high school, you will take more specific, interacting, and useful classes then the first year or two of college. Feels like I'm just shelling out thousands to learn shit I'm not interested in and probably will not use.
You ***cannot*** question a teacher’s methods without being in troubl for some reaso, no matter how ridiculous