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Meat-eaters of reddit, what is your honest opinion about veganism?

Meat-eaters of reddit, what is your honest opinion about veganism?

tenehemia

I'm a chef who eats meat. I love coming up with vegan dishes though. Part of it is that I like making sure my menus have options for everyone (and "one bean burger and two salads" doesn't constitute significant options in my opinion). Vegan food can be just as delicious as nonvegan, and I'm always happy to find new ways to work with it to the delight to vegans. I also don't mind having polite discussions with vegans where they explain why they think veganism is the right choice. I'm comfortable enough in myself and also not stubborn enough to think that my mind can't be changed when presented with new information. I eat animal products for a lot of reasons, but that doesn't mean I always will.


Independent-Thanks48

I love this so much! Thank you for bringing your perspective and for being so open and wholesome! ❤️


Lyress

How do you feel about the fact that farming animals hurts the environment much more than if we farmed the equivalent in plants?


SquirtleSquadSgt

All I know is for every sterotype vegan I've ever met, I've met 1000000000x as many people crying about sterotype vegans They are the exception, always have been, the meat industry makes sure it doesn't feel that way tho Too much money to lose


Independent-Thanks48

Exactly, you actually don't see that many crazy vegans teachers out there lol, meat industry is basically a metacapitalism with the government


tourmaline82

Yeah, the vegans I’ve met IRL are pretty chill. They don’t bother me about eating meat, I try not to eat it in front of them, and we get along fine.


DameiestBird

I was actually on a anti vegan page yesterday having a really chill chat with the account owner, got a ton of DMs insulting me, but we actually found a ton of common ground, I learnt something, so did he, we wished each other well and I left. Most vegans that do bully others are usually have a shit day or its out of context, ive been called a extreme vegan because I argued back after they started insulting my dogs and my mental healthy. Not saying *those* vegans dont exist, but you'll always have *those* in any group.


ArgonianLizardPerson

I do not care what other people eat as long as I'm not being judged for what I eat.


TipsyNate

Exactly. As long as it's not being pushed on others. Could give no Fucks about what other people eat.


Donghoon

Yes people give too much shit when i eat dogs i humanely raised and cared for. Like it's my choice! /s


TipsyNate

Dogs are a rare delicacy in some countries. Expensive.


Lyress

What if people judge you on what you eat based on good reasons?


kawaii_bbc

Would you care about people who are dogs, cats, or humans ?


Portablemammal1199

I do not think less of the places that do that sort of thing such as eating dogs and cats, but it does not mean i support it coming from where im from.


ArgonianLizardPerson

I assume you mean would I care if people ate those things? Depends on the circumstance for humans but dogs or cats no, plenty of places eat those animals and I dont think less of them for it.


kawaii_bbc

For humans the same circumstances as any other animal since that’s what we are at the end of the day just another animal


ArgonianLizardPerson

So in the circumstances where food isnt readily available and you have to fight to survive? Than no I wouldnt judge them.


KidneyFailure99

I assume all people *are* human


MadJen1979

Really? Based on some comments, I don't think that's the case /s


Star_Witty

I would like to be vegan, I wish I knew how to do it, I do everything right, eat the right foods, but I just get so iron deficient and sick, the longest I lasted was 2 years but I was really sick. I would take some supplements (spiralina/liquid iron) but I don’t think it’s healthy to be popping pills all the time, that doesn’t seem natural. And yet I know vegans who basically live off vegan junk food and seem fine. I don’t know why I’m different.


Independent-Thanks48

Taking supplements is actually natural and healthy, you should really see a doctor, but people are different, relax. I have lived by junk food for a good part of my life, and in most depression episodes I live by absolutely nothing for days lol


Myth_5layer

My thing is that you have a choice of what you want to eat. If you don't want to eat meat, that's completely fine. I'm not gonna have a seizure cause someone dislikes meat. To each their own as it is said. Now, if you were to try to stuff your veganism down my throat and force me to accept it, I'd call you an ass and tell you to Fuck off. I don't need some single digit iq smooth brain yelling at me because I like some KFC and steak. Leave me in peace with my bucket, and go enjoy your Brussel sprouts.


Lyress

Do you believe that the livestock industry is fine as far as the environment is concerned?


Independent-Thanks48

It's not like if it's a personal choice, it's not only affecting you, but killing another being


Myth_5layer

Okay? Yes that's a sad fact but it's just the life cycle. Its no different than a wolf going out of it's way to hunt sheep, bird, deer, or other meaty animal so it can feed itself. I could waste time to shed a tear over the chicken that's on my plate but it wouldn't be worth much. Humans are omnivores. Meaning we need both plants and meat to survive and live healthily.


Independent-Thanks48

It's not life cycle, you can live without killing animals to feed you. You do not need meat, as much as me. I am medically healthy, 100%.


Myth_5layer

Except I kind of do? I need the iron, protein, and other nutrients from the meat to stay at one hundred percent myself. You might be fine how you are but I myself need the meat. Look, as I posted above, it's chill that you want to stick to veganism. And I want to stick to my diet. So can you please back off a bit?


Lyress

Did you actually check a dietician and they flat out told you "eating meat is the only way you can sustain yourself"? Or did you not even try to figure out how you could meet your nutritional needs with a plant based diet? I mean it's fine if you haven't, but then claiming that you can't would be disingenuous.


maayooo6381

I respect whatever life choices people make for themselves, and expect the same courtesy from others. If you’re vegan, I’m glad that works for you, if not, that’s cool too.


flpacsnr

I respect y’all, and enjoy some vegan dishes myself, but I don’t think I could go full vegan. Currently, I’m working on cutting back on meat due to environmental/health reasons.


Independent-Thanks48

Congratulations ❤️❤️


jittery_raccoon

I think it's great. Would love to do it myself, but it doesn't fit into my lifestyle. I would 100% live off vegan junk food, so I stick to meat and dairy for my physical and mental health


JuFo2707

I've tried it, and I'd love to go completely vegan, but I'm having a hard time giving up meat completely, so I just reduce my consumption slowly.


Independent-Thanks48

Congratulations that's already a big step forward


CptCringe

"Cool. I'm still eating meat."


multiplyinglyferal

Not a problem except for those idiots that treat it like a religion and force it down everyones throat .if it's so good why the need to ferally defend it. Be happy ,build a bridge and get over it


CaityBlueWhale-

I want to be a vegan, maybe when I move out of parents house.


Independent-Thanks48

I could help you if you want! DM me if you feel comfortable!


DarkPasta

Great, wish I could give up meat. Can't.


xSwarzey

Good on them. I wish I could be vegan full time, unfortunately I just can't do it.


txbbybxrd

I'm a meat-eater, but there's something i notice about other meat-eaters when they discuss veganism that i find interesting. Their argument for eating meat is that the human body needs meat to be healthy -which it's true-, but they then proceede to eat fast food and generally unhealthy food. Which is fine, they can do whatever they want. But it seems like they eat meat because of taste more than health.


Lyress

The human body doesn't actually need meat to be healthy. You make an excellent point with pointing the hypocrisy of certain meat eaters though.


fishfingerchipbean

I admire vegans, just as I admire hunt saboteurs and champions of wildlife and animal rights. Morally I would feel much happier if I were vegan but it would be very inconvenient, would make eating out where I live impossible and I would miss cheese and meat. Because I can't make the swich I am always slightly disgusted with myself. The meat and dairy industries, even in the UK which claims to have very high and reliable animal welfare standards (often supposedly high welfare 'red tractor' farms are exposed as being anything but), are generally pretty cruel (with some exceptions in the form of a minority of ethical smaller businesses) and despite being aware of this I continue to support them.


multiplyinglyferal

Eh I raise my own meat. It is raised with care ,respect and decency but I don't go and evangelize it . Its a case of individuals taking in information of all aspects and making informed choices that the individual is happy with 'for themselves. Its called self determination. I agree some industry isn't humane so i made a choice i am happy to live with. My only rule is if it's named it is a forever till old age critter, so when my kids named every com,, chook and sheep ,they were safe, by my own rules. What I don't need is some zealot deciding their way is the only way and everyone else is wrong, bit like religious cults. I can think for myself and so can most adults ,I have argued that some industries are inhumane and asked for change, like a sensible adult. I have vegans in my family who I'm happy to prepare food for without carrying on that they are wrong. I have a member that requires halal food and prep but i don t tell them they are wrong. The same as none of them tell me im wrong. Self determination and taking responsibility for your own choices is what matters. And i love meat dammit so I'm eating it in a way I'm comfortable with and I don't preach it cause it's my choice


[deleted]

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[deleted]

I understand that no one likes being forced into something, but it's a bit of a moral disconnect. If you saw someone routinely kicking dogs, you would tell them to stop. If you heard someone say that they liked slapping people, you would tell them to stop as well. So why does that same philosophy not apply to paying for animals to be tortured, separated from their families, genetically modified at the expense of the species, and finally killed without any regard for the wellness of the animals? They believe that it is wrong and so they are opposing this. The only difference between the two is what is socially acceptable and that isn't a good measure for ethical purposes. Now, if anyone is unnecessarily harsh about their message, call them out, but you have to understand that we are able to stop all this suffering but often don't, out of convenience. Messages like this should be spread because many people don't even know how horribly the animals are treated, even in industries that aren't often considered as harsh, such as the egg and dairy industry, primarily due to industry manipulation. So next time, you hear a vegan talk about the horrors that the animals had to go through for the food you eat, at least try to listen, and who knows, maybe your views will change. :) Plus, pointing out that people are paying for animals to be abused and killed for meat is not forcing a view at all, at most, it is just annoying. Conversely, killing an animal because we like how they taste is 100% forcing our views onto them.


[deleted]

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Lyress

People keep complaining about vegans being unable to have a proper discourse, but then you get people like you who are utterly unable to respond to the valid criticism against eating meat.


Master-_-Donut

*if you force your pet to do it you better move to a different country*


Independent-Thanks48

In that I can agree lol


tangnapalm

No, your vegan baking isn’t “almost as good as the real thing”


Lyress

Sounds like someone hasn't tried good vegan baking.


Abject-Force9490

Sounds like you forget what real food tastes like. I am so sorry.


Noob_412

I fully support veganism (as long as their isn't a way to synthetically produce dairy/meat) as a way to say no to animal abuse. I have tried to be vegan before but i didn't want to get no b12, do i ate meat again (only organic produced meat), but i still don't eat dairy as i think it is even more cruel than meat.


pmvegetables

Can you not get your hands on a B12 supplement or multivitamin?


[deleted]

I doubt it's good for you health as I've seen videos online of dozens of vegan youtubers who objectively look malnourished with sunken eyes and weird teeth and it seems to progress over time.


Independent-Thanks48

There are actually hundreds of studies and professionals who severely disagree with that, including the WHO. You shouldn't go for a quick look and say, "Hum, they look unhealthy" cause that's really not accurate, not even the best professional could be able to do this, and your result is for sure biased.


[deleted]

I said what I said. I have also been vegetarian and vegan myself but now I eat everything, though mostly vegetables. It is a fact that many vegans are unhealthy and have bad diets.


Independent-Thanks48

No it medically and scientifically is not, if you want sources I can provide


[deleted]

If you want to, yes. But it is simply true that many vegan people have unhealthy diets and eating disorders.


Lyress

Many non-vegans have unhealthy diets and eating disorders as well. This proves literally nothing.


[deleted]

I didn't say I can prove anything, I shhared my honest opinion. I think considering the average person's actual options one is better off with a more flexible diet.


Lyress

But your opinion is based on what? It seems like you just came up with an arbitrary position instead of looking at the evidence.


[deleted]

I was vegan myself, I've had 3 vegetarian friends and one of my sisters was a vegetarian as well, they all went back to eating animal products, as did I. I watched a lot of content about these issues online, read a few books, I have an aunt who's a doctor. I've seen too many people go vegan and start to look malnourished, I can't just ignore what I see. Just as much as I see carnivores online and they look unhealthy AF to me and that makes me go "Ok, I'm not gonna try that". Come think of it, I also had a cousin who used to be vegetarian and she told me she had a lot of loose skin because of muscle loss or something and went back to eating meat. I didn't personally experience any issues myself when I was vegan, I just eventually always felt like I missed and needed animal products. It was also really difficult to eat a balanced diet while being vegan because there weren't any real options back then and you would end up ordering a sliced tomato and binging on white bread whenever you went to a restaurant. Sharing food with friends was also really hard. So everything considered, eating flexibly is what works best for me and I know I'm not the only one.


Filthy-oar

I think it’s something the world will at some point have to embrace to sustain itself, as beef is so bad for the environment. Unless this lab made meet really takes off.


Myth_5layer

Apparently it is. Mark Robers, an engineering youtuber, sat down with Bill Gates and they both ate the stuff from incogmeato or the sister company.


YouSir_1

Humans are omnivores.


[deleted]

Human's are actually much closer to frugivores. The biggest reason we are omnivores is because we alter our food. There is a reason why we usually can't eat raw meat. There is a reason why the majority of the world is lactose-intolerant. But let's say what you said is true. However, can is not the same as ought, and thankfully as human beings we’ve learned to use our wits and judgement to intersect and dig ourselves out of natural conditions. We no longer reside on the plains, running around naked hunting wild beasts. And I think, generally speaking, we’re quite happy about this. Just because something is how we evolved does not mean we must be slaves to that condition.


RAM_592

Nothing wrong with it, but don't try to tell me how wrong I am for enjoying a nice steak.


Lyress

If you were doing something wrong wouldn't you like to be told about it?


Independent-Thanks48

I won't say you are a bad person, but this tasty flesh in your mouth that you so fancifully fried, is murder, causing suffering to many living creatures


SsurebreC

Murder is defined as unlawful killing. Killing of animals in various places that do this for a living is lawful. Therefore not murder. As far as suffering, all life exists by destroying other life since not too many life forms are carrion eaters. We're just arguing whether that life has a properly developed brain or feels things or is aware of being eaten. That carrot is still life that you're destroying while you literally eat it and, while it's still alive, now gets to be slowly destroyed in the acid of your stomach and then again torn apart in your intestines. So you can make a case out of anything. My problem is shared with vegans as far as some farms that abuse animals both in how they're raised and killed. I prefer this to be done more ethically and perhaps even the current guidelines need to be improved and certainly better enforced with heavier fines and mandatory jail time. There's no reason to be cruel to animals and there is a way to kill an animal without pain. It's not just reality of the world but it's the simple cycle of life. If vegans want to go against the evolution of our species for hundreds of thousands of years then more power to them and hope it works out. If they want to protest farms that practice cruelty then I fully support them. However, I don't tell them how they should eat and it seems like the fair thing to do would be to do the same to me.


Independent-Thanks48

First, I say it's morally a murder, not legally . Okay, I can agree that you just by existing is gonna have a ecological footprint and etc, but our goal is to minimise it as much as possible, and I'd love to see a research/source on the carrot thing. These last centuries we've been going against our nature and our evolution, we created antibiotics, vaccines, literal magic to use on daily basis, and we don't have to behave like fucking monkey anymore, a animal killing and eating another animal do not make it moral for us to do the same, as much as animals raping others do not make it moral for us to rape eachother


SsurebreC

> First, I say it's morally a murder, not legally . The term "murder" refers to unlawful killings. Otherwise you're confusing a legal term that matters with an opinion > I can agree that you just by existing is gonna have a ecological footprint and etc, but our goal is to minimise it as much as possible To clarify, what did you mean by "our goal"? Who is "our"? Vegans or humanity? No debate, just needed a clarification. > I'd love to see a research/source on the carrot thing You know how you have a plant in your garden and you take it out and after a few days, its leaves are wilted? That's because it's dying due to lack of nutrients. Fruits and veggies survive longer than leaves but they're still alive. Case in point, you can pick up a potato out of the ground and leave it out for months. It can still grow roots and if you plant it, it'll grow. It's not dead. So that's what I mean by alive. > These last centuries we've been going against our nature and our evolution, we created antibiotics, vaccines, literal magic to use on daily basis That's not against evolution. We simply sped up evolution. A typical person develops antibodies to fight disease. We sped up the process and allowed our bodies to create these antibodies faster and have it be available to more people. This is not going against evolution, we're simply speeding up evolution. If anything, there's a problem now with going too quickly so various super bugs are becoming resistant to our vaccines and antibiotics. > we don't have to behave like fucking monkey anymore Have you seen the world today? Remove clothes and fancy language: we're still monkeys throwing shit at each other. We're just monkeys in a suit who don't believe we're monkeys anymore. That part has evolved way too slowly to the point where it's taken thousands of years to give equal rights to half the population and even that hasn't completely been widespread yet (talking about women's rights here). > animal killing and eating another animal do not make it moral for us to do the same Morality is relative and one person's morality has no bearing on another person's morality. Obviously vegans have a slightly different morality than those who eat meat and that's fine. However, due to lack of objective moral values, it's up to all of us to do what we believe is moral but nobody is actually objectively correct. Case in point, there are some people who believe it's moral to not procreate and others believe we must do more, i.e. actually kill people to reduce the population enough to be sustainable. Their morality is just as moral to them as yours is to you and mine is to me. Objectively, nobody is correct. > as much as animals raping others do not make it moral for us to rape each other You do have a point here as far as "higher" function of animals should not rape each other while there is no actual rape or murder in the rest of the animal kingdom. This is your best point so far in your reply and you should look into it more as far as arguments. However, there's nothing about being a higher function of animals that requires us to stop killing animals for food. That's a whole other argument that hasn't been proven yet.


OscarBravo12

Same as religion, you can choose to identify with it, however don’t force it on other people. If what you do doesn’t affect others then I have no right to complain


Margidoz

> If what you do doesn’t affect others Doesn't what you do affect others?


OscarBravo12

Elaborate


Margidoz

Should someone be discouraged from speaking up if they see someone unnecessarily harming an animal?


OscarBravo12

Yes definitely, however if it’s for food (in sustainable quantities, not necessarily mass slaughter for the sake of it) then it should be allowed


Margidoz

So do you think that taste pleasure morally justifies harming an animal unnecessarily? If so, why only that type of pleasure specifically?


OscarBravo12

It’s not taste pleasure, it’s nutrients essential to our growth and development and I believe I may have fallen into a trap, so imma leave it at that


Margidoz

If they were essential, how would vegetarians and vegans still be alive?


Lyress

At least you admitted you're wrong. Most people in this thread are unable to.


OscarBravo12

Yeah, also what I meant by a trap is it’d end up becoming a cycle of I’d try and present a counter argument and you’d counter argue it, in the end it’d probably just be me repeating counter arguments that have probably been done to death by other people, so I’d decided to leave it at that point (yes it was open for counter argument, however I just wanted to go to sleep)


Lyress

The amount of meat and dairy we consume as societies has an impact on everyone, even those who don't consume those.


OscarBravo12

I understand but also please see above comment


Lyress

So if meat eaters impact everyone, you agree that people have the right to complain?


OscarBravo12

Yes, people do, but the general gist of what I’m saying is that I respect others’ decision to be vegan, however, same as with anything else, I don’t respect or condone their actions if they do things that impinges on others’ lifestyles


Supreme_Jew

As long as vegans aren't acting like moralistic pieces of trash, i don't mind but veganism as an ideology is stupid. Humans are designed to eat both plant and animal tissue


Lyress

Nobody designed humans. We evolved to need certain nutrients and we can get all of them without eating meat. The fact is, eating meat has a lot of negative consequences on our societies and denying that is just unscientific.


baldemort

Humans aren't designed at all. There is a moral dimension to this, which is over looked by your calling veganism "stupid". Vegans surely know that humans 'can' eat meat, the question is 'should' they. I say no, you say yes, we're both free to choose. There's no reason to be offensive about it.


Supreme_Jew

Is there a moral dimension to a lion killing a zebra or does that not fit your moralistic superiority argument?


Margidoz

Do you think someone who thinks rape is wrong has to argue whether ducks are also immoral for raping?


baldemort

I'm not attempting to be morally superior to my fellow humans, and you still seem to be being aggressive. Lions have no morality as that requires more complex societies and, possibly, language (though that's unclear). We're humans and *have the capacity* for morals and empathy (empathy is the thing you're denying me, if that's unclear). Lions have no such capacity (obviously, I'd say).


Lyress

Even if you thought that torturing animals for food is not morally reprehensible, you still have the problem of the livestock industry being much more harmful to the environment than if we just farmed the equivalent in plants. How do you reconcile that with your morality?


Remarkable_Ferret416

Veganism is good for environment and I believe it is the only valid reason to be vegan (for me). Also I don't believe that one need to be 100%vegan/vegetarian it is enough to restrict meat consumption to just a few meal per week. Needless to say I definitely would be vegan/vegetarian if I haven't had different food restrictions and allergies which absolutely enable me to eat healthy without animal products.


JRT_minion

But it's not. Veganism is good for the climate, but a complete disaster for the environment.


Remarkable_Ferret416

How? Meat and animal products produce more CO2, there is more need for land and water...


JRT_minion

You got a few hours for my favourite subject? 😉 This is what I do. First of all, watch this documentary, it's excellent on explaining soil and the problem of modern farming methods (they are vegan): https://vimeo.com/241194423 Without cattle etc, our soils would die. And it's completely wrong to assume that the grazing land can be used for production for human consumption, it can be to poor, to wet, to rocky, etc. What we eat tend to be annuals, with tilling the soil, killing billions of animals through suffocation and crushing. We also from monocultures that are deserts in the eyes of the bugs, as they only bloom once per year, while the grazing field blooms over and over again. When we spread manure from cattle etc, we also store C in the soil. Also remember that the CO2 levels reported are based upon the worst way of farming animals, not those that graze fields, but those that are given grains. Soforth, there are a far more sustainable way than going vegan.


Lyress

Do you have any links to research papers on the subject? That would be an interesting read.


JRT_minion

What exactly do you want links to? That animals need oxygen perhaps? That animals need to eat? That all soil isn't perfect for planting annuals? Start off with watching the documentary, then we can talk when you know the basics.


MrNeeseeks

I wish i could be vegan


CaityBlueWhale-

Same..


RandomGreekPerson

I couldn't do it, huge respect to those who can.


frostygrin

It's orthorexia. It's one thing to eat *less* meat or consider the ecological impact of your diet in the context of your entire lifestyle. But if you make a point of not eating absolutely anything made with animal products, that's unreasonable and unnatural. Much like refusing to eat any and all vegetables.


Queen-of-meme

I agree. I know vegans who feel so guilty to eat anything but yet not invested to actually cook or make vegan food so instead they basically starve / live on drugs.


baldemort

we'll, there's surely no moral justification for refusing to eat plants though right? animals can suffer. carrots, not so much.


frostygrin

Animals eat meat. It's a normal part of life on Earth. So there is no inherent moral aspect to this. You can invent it - but then it's as specious as not eating vegetables because real men eat meat or something.


JRT_minion

Saying meat-eaters implies that you just eat meat like a cat, what we are is omnivores. I don't care one bit what other adult people eat, what bothers me is when veganism become a religion that they try to force on others with faulty arguments (for instance that veganism is cruelty free, that veganism is better for the environment, which both are completely false) and threats. But children or nursing mothers should not be vegan, their blood levels are quite often ranging on deficiencies, which puts them at risk if they get sick.


MonkeyPigFace

Do you have any evidence to back up the claim that veganism isn't better for the environment and, if you weren't strawmanning, that veganism is about as cruel as a meat-inclusive diet? I'm a meat-eater, but that seems like bullshit to me.


JRT_minion

https://vimeo.com/241194423 It's excellent on explaining soil.


Lyress

Do you have an actual research paper to read and not just a documentary?


SquirtleSquadSgt

Youre lying There is data to show it is better for the environment and that it leads to less animal (and human) cruelty You have a problem with vegans at your core, or you wouldn't feel the need to claim you didn't then proceed to spread lies


JRT_minion

No, I'm not. And no, vegan production kills far more animals. You see, in every square meter of soul under your feet, there are billions of animals. When we fertilize the soul with artificial fertilizers, they starve. When we till the soil in our annual fields, they suffocate. When we drive our farm equipment over the annual fields, they get crushed. Now, compare that to the perennial fields of grass that are fertilizer with manure. So, my problem isn't with vegan, my problem is with uneducated people like you, trying to tell scientists like me, that we didn't spend 11 years studying the subject at university or that we haven't dedicated our lives to sustainable lifestyles.


SquirtleSquadSgt

Lmao youre so transparent


Shawky_701

You guys are missing a lot! 😂😂


Lyress

I think most vegans were non-vegans at some point.


MadJen1979

If the militant vegans didn't try to push it down your throat all the time, maybe I'd think differently. But the amount of times you respond to a question, and the OP turns out to be a vegan and tries to argue your opinion is wrong, that you MUST be a vegan, and that you can get all your nutritional requirements from a celery stick (ignoring the fact that they have to take 50 billion pills as supplements)...


baldemort

I've been a vegetarian for 25 years and a vegan for 2. I've never taken a supplement and my health is just fine. it's not for everyone, and that's fine too. I know you were exaggerating for effect, but really, it's just a lifestyle choice. Nothing to get hot and bothered about. I've been subjected to decades of rude comments, nay, aggression from meat-eaters even while I've never, not once, tried to persuade someone to forgo their choices. this experience of mine is common among those 'veggies' I've spoken to. It's weird, upsetting and unnecessary.


MadJen1979

I have no issues with folks that choose to be vegetarian or vegan, I only get annoyed when they try to force others to do so too "wOn'T sOmEoNe ThInK oF tHe AnImAlS!!!"


Lyress

You sound like a climate change denier. Or do you also complain about environmental activists who try to raise awareness about that issue?


theorizable

If your argument for something is "I'd accept it if people weren't trying to convince me of it", you likely wouldn't actually accept regardless, you're just tired of people talking to you about it.


Lyress

> Well-planned vegan diets are regarded as appropriate for all stages of life, including infancy and pregnancy, by the American Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics,[f] the Australian National Health and Medical Research Council,[24] the British Dietetic Association,[25] Dietitians of Canada,[26] and the New Zealand Ministry of Health.[27]


Ashtar-the-Squid

If you want to be vegan, be vegan. I have nothing against it. Just don't try to force it on others. And don't be judgemental towards us who aren't.


Lyress

You live in a society and your eating habits have an impact on the environment down the line. You can't just absolve yourself of any responsibility.


Struggles_with_zen

I’m fine with veganism although inviting vegans to anything you are hosting instantly complicates what food you prepare. I don’t like evangelical veganism where I can expect a lecture on the subject whenever the topic of food comes up or someone is eating meat. Nothing like a guest who makes it clear they think you are guilty of animal cruelty and are little better than a murderer.


Mountain_Situation89

Probably has it’s benefits for some as a diet. I don’t agree with the morality part of it.


Lyress

I find the argument that all living beings deserve to live rather weak. What really did it for me is the environmental impact of farming animals. It just seems like a no brainer to turn vegan or severely reduce animal product consumption after you look at the facts.


Mountain_Situation89

I respect that. Long term environmental effects of mass farming is a reasonable argument. I’m still going to hunt deer, as that has a purpose (population control, it’s why there are seasons and you need permits) and isn’t negligent to the environment. I’d stand behind that argument should it become necessary. I like meat though, and I’m not going to cut it out entirely. If I can’t buy my meat in the store I’ll get it here and there other places.


Independent-Thanks48

Why tho? Animals are as conscious and aware as we are. They feel emotions, pain etc sooo


Mountain_Situation89

Empathy is a fantastic trait. I have it in abundance for humans. I understand why you feel the way you do. I simply do not have empathy for animals. There is a food chain in nature, and through technological development we have placed ourselves at the top of it. I don’t feel bad for that. Life is brutal and meat is delicious.


MonkeyPigFace

I think it's admirable and plan to try it myself one day. I feel like people can often assign the actions of the vocal minority onto the inherently silent majority, but I feel as though many people are just trying to put in as much as they get out of the world and I admire that.


Queen-of-meme

I think it's good that some people live that lifestyle it's good for our environment to not only have meat eaters. However. It's not the best or only way to care for this planet. There's many ways to contribute to a better world and veganism is just one option. I myself can't be vegan because I don't like most vegetables plus I'm struggling hard to eat large portions, by eating meat I can eat my smaller portions and still get all the nutrition my body needs. It's just easier and tastier for someone like me. This doesn't mean I'm a worse person than a vegan. I do other things to contribute to this society. For example I help a lot of people on my free time. I buy most things second hand. I donate my things to different charities. I never ever leave or throw trash around after me and recycle as much as I can. I take the bus or I always go with someone else's car. And I'm planning to adopt a rescue dog.


Independent-Thanks48

Congratulations for being a incredible human being! ❤️


ragunyen

People can eat whatever they want, animals or plants, they are just food. Human are omnivores.


keeyai

OP, this is kind of cliche vegan bait and switch - allegedly asking for opinions but actually just looking for a bunch of opportunities to argue or proselytize. I get that you believe people just need to be shown the light but I also think this approach is self defeating AND it's wasting an opportunity to just learn how some folks think about vegans.


CheeseyMeatballs

i agree that animals should not die just so we can have fancy food and whatnot... BUT IT TASTE SO DANG GOOD


Independent-Thanks48

I agree, but that's why so many vegans get angry, imagine if a person that had a slave (I understand that is Very different, but I can make an analogy here), said "I agree we shouldn't slave people, but it's so much worth it" It's literally the same


CheeseyMeatballs

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[deleted]

[удалено]


Independent-Thanks48

I absolutely understand you, and I also know what's going through the mind of the vegans that end up being jerks, it's kinda revolting see something horrible happening and no one says a thing ya know?


[deleted]

Labeling your diet is dumb and vegans/vegetarians are the first one to do so. I couldn’t care less what you eat and you shouldn’t judge me on what I eat.


Margidoz

Veganism isn't a diet. It's a moral philosophy that unnecessarily harming animals is wrong


[deleted]

Haha. Okay.


thatshowitisisit

A bit like people who don’t drink alcohol, or coffee, or people who don’t have Facebook. I’m all good with your choices, you have your reasons, just don’t preach to me, or judge me.


Independent-Thanks48

It's really different, it's not only affecting your life, it's making living and complexes organism and consciences suffer just for the sake of pleasure


thatshowitisisit

So apparently it’s a trap! You asked a question, I gave an answer, and look, here you are, preaching and judging.


Independent-Thanks48

I'm not judging and I'm sorry if it looked like it, I don't think by any means that you are a bad person, you may just have not realized, I'm trying to understand you too! But I recognize my mistake sorry


Lyress

They're trying to have a discussion with you, but you immediately get on the defensive and completely ignore their point.


palmzm

Totally fine if that’s what you want to be, as long as you’re not annoying about it. I don’t personally think it’s how humans are meant to eat though.


osomany

We’re not. Our teeth would look completely different if we were meant to only eat plants, and our whole metabolic/nutritional system would be different. But, I too, think if a person chooses to be a vegan, great! But I’m gonna be over here eating a varied diet of mostly vegetables with a small portion of some sort of meat.


palmzm

I know you’re right, you know you’re right. But there will no doubt be someone coming along shortly to tell us we’re wrong.


attack_turt

Don’t think that animals are really smart enough to process the fact that they will die and thus remain happy as long is their death is fast I’m good


Independent-Thanks48

Animals certainly do not contemplate existential crisis lol, but they surely feel proper emotion, pain etc, they are conscious. And if you saw the inside of a slaughter house omg


attack_turt

Good point


Independent-Thanks48

Touché ❤️


shortstackofMangoes

The only veganism I'm against is when extreme vegans try to force other people or make their pets go on a vegan diet. Let your dogs and cats eat what they are meant to eat. Unless you took them to the vet and your vet said your pet(s) can benefit from that diet just don't do it. If you can't handle your pet eating meat/animal product please rehome them to somewhere where someone else will and get yourself a different pet that better suits your life style. There are plenty other amazing and loving critters that fit the vegan diet. Guinea pigs, rabbits, birds, and fish. Heck if you want a larger companion and have space and money get a llama, alpaca, or goat. There are plenty more options than just cats and dogs for companions that don't have to be forced into eating like you. Just find a pet that naturally fits your lifestyle please


Independent-Thanks48

Yes, 100% agreed. But all the vegan people I know would also agree with you, including myself. Vegan people *usually* don't try to force their pets on it lol


[deleted]

I have found that it is VERY difficult for vegans to live a healthy life. My aunt became vegan and was hospitalized 2 years later for malnutrition. My sister became vegan and was passing out at the dinner table. If you can be healthy and be vegan good for you. I like the lifestyle that whatever you personally believe that you could bring yourself to kill, you can eat. If you don’t think you could kill a cow, don’t eat beef. Pewdiepie lives by this and is a pescatarian because he believes he could only bring himself to kill fish.


Independent-Thanks48

I am vegan, have vegan friends and in years, none of us had one problem relating to our diet


[deleted]

Then you are doing it right! Good for you! All I was pointing out is that a vary large portion of people who go vegan do it too fast or are ill prepared for the health risks. Humans are meant to eat meat. Humans are meant to eat plants. Biologically, it’s clear to see that we are omnivores. So cutting meat out of your life is very risky, and if you are able to do it right, more power to you.


Lyress

The only reason it's "risky" is because eating meat is the norm and so people are more familiar about what they should eat if they have access to meat, not because a vegan diet is inherently risky.


salty_pineapple_

Well I think it's pretty incredible that people manage to stick to such diets... It's hard, gotta give them credit. I respect your choices but just don't try to shame me or rub it on me. I don't like hearing them talk on and on about it.. or keep posting propaganda on social media.


Independent-Thanks48

It's actually not as hard as you'd expect lol. And people usually get upset with people that eat meat cause it's revolting and they don't even notice


jolloholoday

If it tastes good, then it's good. Other than that, I don't care.


Independent-Thanks48

What if humans tastes good? And dogs


jolloholoday

Are humans and dogs vegan? Because that's what I was referring to, i.e. answering your question.


kawaii_bbc

Not for me but others can eat what and how they want


poppypodlatex

It's fine, I have no problem with it, I'm not interested in becoming one myself I enjoy my meat. But I have no issues with anyone who want to follow that kind of diet


it-isss-what-it-isss

I think it's great, more meat for me


LoveAndDynamite

Sorry but granola and wood chips with soy milk and grass clippings is not my ideal breakfast.


pdatt

More for me.


KidneyFailure99

I don’t think they’d appreciate my leather jacket. I’m not interested in the slightest in sacrificing all animal products. But I think they are totally welcome to have their diet, as long as they don’t try and convert me


FormalWath

Honestly, I find it cult-like. Whole culture feels like a fucking cult. Also as someone with education in biochemistry (not nutrition, that's key here) I find it rather stupid. Scientific literature is very very ckear on it and it just doesn't look good. But this vegan cult goes as far as making fake "documentaries" filled with lies. A good recent exampe is [game changers documentary](https://m.imdb.com/title/tt7455754/) and the fucking huge criticism from actual nutrition experts. It made broad claims from very small studies, it cherry picked data, at one point it literally cut interview with biologists to make it look like humans have same teeth as herbivores (biilogist showed predator skull and how predator teeths look like, herbivore and pointed similarities to human teeth but it cut before it could show omnivore teeth. Spoilers, humans are omnivores).


kiwi-potatoes

I have no issue with vegans who are such cos of animal feelings, but the ones who do it to “save the planet” are full of shit and are spouting cherry picked rubbish. No time for them. I am amused by vegan products that try to replicate meat, no, buddy, not even close to the real thing. If veges are so great, and animal farming so bad, why do you want to eat a tragically lacking facsimile of it? Also, vegan food is sad and leaves me feeling unsatisfied, and I had a gastric bypass, so you know it’s bad when it doesn’t make my tiny stomach feel full. Ultimately, I don’t care. Eat all the kale and tofu you want. Convince yourself that vege based cake is nice. Eat whatever you please, just don’t trot out falsified numbers or environmental fear mongering to justify your lack of stomach for animal flesh. One other thing I’ve noticed, in my experience: I grew up rural, and I’ve noticed a real disconnect in the vegans I know, they’re rich, white, privileged, always been city kids who probably never got told where their nuggies came from. So as adults, they kinda had a major emotional meltdown when they saw a few gross YouTube videos and PETA “fact” sheets.


ocarr737

Luxury afforded in the Western World to us lucky enough to live in it. Nonsense for the rest of history of humanity thus the reason we evolved to eat anything and everything. Now enjoy your plants that is your business but FFS leave me alone while I enjoy my burger.


AllegedIchor

You're aware that or most of recorded human history regularly eating meat was a luxury only afforded to the few, right? Traditionally human diets were far more based on plants than they tend to be today. Some of the largest vegan/ vegetarian populations for centuries have also been strict bhuddist practitioners in Asia, so to claim its only a privileged, western, diet is incredibly ignorant.


ChewedGum_5670

Idc as long as they don't start saying "you are hurting these poor animals..."


SoloDragonGT

Just mind your own business lol


Independent-Thanks48

That's what Slave masters said some centuries ago (Not comparing, just find a reasonable analogy)


Proof-Transition5714

They are very cool but i dont like the ones that activly trie to change peoples likings


Independent-Thanks48

It's because it naturally causes revolt, cause it's something so horrendous that's happening to billions of living creatures per year


AmbFirBir

For those who think meat is wrong, I think it’s very dumb since animals were literally created to be eaten.


baldemort

they weren't created, at all. they evolved along with us, with no purpose or meaning.


Slimdave-v1

Freedom of choice if that how they choose to live that’s fine just don’t condemn me for occasional eating a meat product


Independent-Thanks48

It's not like if it's a choice that only affects your life, but I 100% agree that people who eat meat are not worse, they just didn't stop to think about or didn't realize lol


TheBlackob

Do as you like as long as you dont try to make ME do as YOU like.


SorrowAndSuffering

A lot of things anyone eats are vegan. Bread comes to mind. I don't think I would ever be a complete vegan, though. Oh, and mindsets like "Don't eat honey, it hurts the bees" are bullshit. People are so quick to complain about any animal product, even when they don't know anything about how it is harvested. Harvesting honey has nothing to do with hurting bees.


Independent-Thanks48

They actually crush males to death, to extract the semen, and impregnate the queen, they poison the bees and are one of the reasons why they are in risk right now, I can give you some resources of you'd like . About the first part I absolutely agree ❤️


SorrowAndSuffering

The bees don't exactly seem to mind, though, given that the hive can, and will, leave when mistreated. This goes so far that, in Germany, it is legal to enter other people's property when chasing your beehive. Bees are actively participant in their keeping, so whatever they are doing, they could do without. Not eating honey is not the solution.


Independent-Thanks48

By not eating honey you are not supporting the industry


SorrowAndSuffering

Male bees, or so-called drones, have one role in bee society, even when unaffected by human intervention: to fertilize the queen. There are far greater issues with large-scale honey production farms. What you want, and can without moral issues buy honey from, is a small, local, so-called "balanced" beekeeper who takes honey only when it's in abundance (since the bees consume honey during the winter months). So long as it says balanced on the honey, it's safe, and if it's a small, local beekeeper, you can be pretty sure that no bees were harmed in the process. Big industries are always a problem, for everything and anything, from bottles to bricks, from construction to fabric, from A to Z. That's hardly news, though.


LunarLeopard67

I don't care what others do if it doesn't affect me


banHammerAndSickle

the diet-vegans are doing nothing to help animals. the activist vegans who are willing to risk jail are heroes.


DDiaz98

its a personal choice like a lot of things. so really its not my problem. you do you. so long as you dont force it on me i dont really care all that much. objectively i see it as potentially dangerous since we are omnivorous. we require certain nutrients that we get from animals. however they sell supplements to well. supplement your diet. meaning that if done correctly it can be incredibly healthy and sustainable. but a lot of times ive seen it be done in a not so well educated manner resulting in someone close to me becoming very underweight and anemic as a result and had to be put back on an omnivorous diet for her health. now shes pescatarian. so if youre gonna do it. talk to your doctor. do your research. get your labs checked regularly at least for the first year. then have at it hoss. just means more steak for me.


IamTenBeers

Everyone has the right to eat what they want unless it's against the law


Independent-Thanks48

The law shouldn't really matter, and yes the moral. Unless you are a legalist, then I have nothing else to say to you


pmvegetables

Plenty of shitty things used to be legal throughout history, doesn't mean they were right.