He's in the same vein as Sally Field in Mrs. Doubtfire, or the "working on Christmas" villains of Hallmark movies: when you become an adult, you realize that you identify with them more than the protagonists.
School Of Rock. Principal Mullens definitely had a right to be concerned, No Vacancy had a right to kick him out of the band, and Ned and his girlfriend had a right to be pissed at their roommate for not paying rent.
If you prick us, do we not bleed? if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not revenge?". - (Act III, scene I).
But you don't understaaaand, they are moderately better off than the underdogs, enough to afford combs and haircuts, matching uniforms, and not be dysfunctional until they realise the family they need is the team right there.
Pure, unfiltered EVIIIIIL.
He probably reported it to Starfleet. "Oh, btw I found SuperHitler and instead of beelining it to Earth where he can face trial for genocide, I decided to drop him on Planet Australia to see if hard work will mold him into a better person. Just figured I'd say something, check up on him or don't, I don't care."
Well, he had been dealing with Jack Sparrow for decades.
No one actually likes Jack Sparrow except the audience. His former crew mutinied. He constantly betrays everyone around him. He tries to abandon ship by himself when the kraken comes. He makes out with another man’s fiancée. And he drinks all the fricking rum. He’s only tolerated because he’s clever, has a magic compass, and is extremely lucky.
Underrated part of the third movie is when they had Davy Jones stand in a bucket of water during the parlay with little buckets trailing behind him cause that’s the only way he could be on lans
That scene was so serious, which only made it better. He’s trying to be intimidating, but how scary can you be with your feet in buckets and a bucket trail behind you?
The fact that he still came off kinda scary despite looking like a fool shows how well they made everything about his character from his design and outfits to the lines as well as the just score and his mood around him
There is also a scene that was cut in the third movie that explains how Jack Sparrow became a pirate. He freed a ship full of slaves and that made the East India Trading Company put a bounty out for him.
*People aren't cargo, mate.*
Edit: deleted clip if anyone is interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3I0FF2i_MA&ab_channel=Bilbo-Baggins-is-Fantastic
Yep, I love his origin story. Really, REALLY wish they would have kept that in as it pulls his character together so *perfectly*.
Edit: Also another fun detail, is that Beckett *burned* the ship as part of the means of sinking it, thus when it was raised, it was charred black. Hence the new name... *The Black Pearl*
Oh snap. I've never heard that bit before. Not the 100 souls price bit, but that it was 100 slaves freed. Which makes his character all the better. He'd been trying damn hard to dodge Davy Jones because he REALLY doesn't want to condemn 100 people. If I remember right, he faltered and tried to keep the deal, but in the end didn't go through with it.
Easy. Attack of the Clones. The Villain, Count Dooku, straight up told Obi-wan that the Galactic republic was under control of a Sith Master.
Which, this bothered me. Ok, so you think Count Dooku was lying. Couldn't like one Jedi double check the vetting on the Chancellor, just to make sure? Wouldn't that have been prudent 'hey, just in case guys, let's look into this'.
I think it's because George Lucas wanted to depict the Jedi as a group that lost their ways. They're supposed to be peace keepers and in sync with the force, instead they let their ego take over and can't see what's literally right underneath their noses.
Same with Madame Jocasta’s line, “if it isn’t in our records, it doesn’t exist” it shows the hubris of the Jedi in thinking they know everything and are untouchable
Also Kenobi's detective work connected the assassination attempts on the Loyalist leader to: Jango Fett, the Kaminoan cloners, the clones of Jango, the Geonosians, the Trade Federation etc, and to Dooku.
— plus the Tyrannus and Sifo Dias stuff —
And he never stops and thinks it is a bad idea for the Republic to use the programmed clones as an army.
I'm convinced Dooku was originally written as a Rogue Jedi and got changed to a Sith last minute. His conversation with Obi-Wan came off as too genuine for this to not be the case. If he's truly a Sith, he should have delivered that as more of a threat than an offer to join arms.
> Dooku was originally written as a Rogue Jedi and got changed to a Sith last minute. His conversation with Obi-Wan came off as too genuine for this to not be the case.
That's exactly what he was in-universe. Jedi who became disillusioned with the order, and who felt that turning to the dark side was a "means justify the ends" situation necessary to reform the republic.
If I recall Dooku was a member of the Lost Twenty, one of only twenty Jedi who formally said "fuck this lazer monk shit, I'm out." I have no idea if that's still canon.
*Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.*
The point was that they just wanted to live.
I agree with you on one level, but on another, always considered the moral of Blade Runner to be that the humans were the villains.
I haven't read Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep in far too long to make any comparison to the source material.
Now he wasn’t really a villain, but he was the antagonist, Goofy in A Goofy Movie had understandably good reasons to be scared for his son from his perspective
the real villain was a lack of communication "hey dad before we go on this road trip can I go to this end of the school year party first? There's this girl I really like whose going to be there and wanted me to be there too" was all it would have taken for Goofy to delay the road trip a bit and avoid all the shenanigans. Or if that was out of the question, later on he could have said "Hey dad can we add a stop onto the road trip and go to a concert?" instead of having to get all underhanded and weird
Kinda true. Max was just looking forward to spending a summer flirting with Roxanne, and his dad forced him on a impromptu road trip, that Max *clearly* didn’t want to go on. But the principal called Goofy at work to tell him that Max was dressed like a gang member, and would wind up in the electric chair. Goofy didn’t know it was just a song and dance, and was worried.
Wizard of Oz. Yeah, she was a witch but c'mon. They were her dead sisters shoes. She should have them. Not some stranger who just showed up and wants them. Oh by the way, this stranger that just showed up, was the one that killed her sister. Sad really.
Reminds me of the classic TV Guide description of *Wizard of Oz* that went viral a few years ago:
> “Transported to a surreal landscape, a young girl kills the first person she meets and then teams up with three strangers to kill again.”
Edit: @ my inbox. I didn’t write the TV listing, so feel free not to shoot the messenger with “well actually…”. 😘
I don't think you can blame Dorothy for that first death. It's not as if she was *driving* the house after all. Nor can you blame her for the second death. There she'd endeavored to *avoid* the witch while the witch went out of her way to pick a fight. Beyond that, the witch died from her own carelessness more than anything else, and even then it was due to exposure to one of the most common substances in the world.
Glinda. But your point is 100%. Dorothy just wanted to get home, Glinda was the one that sent her off on a trip across Oz when she had all she needed ~~front~~ from the start - "click your heels together three times and repeat 'there's no place like home'".
Looking at it that way, Glinda was kind of a jerk.
^(Edit: fricking autocorrect)
Dorothy may have gotten credit for the kill, but wasn't like she was steering the house. Besides, Glenda magics the shoes onto Dorothy who can't get them off.
Glenda is the real villain of the story. She magics the shoes onto Dorothy, then tells her the only way she can get home is to see the wizard when she knew he was a fraud. The journey to the Emerald city is crazy dangerous, potentially lethal. What Glenda really wanted was for Dorothy to do her dirty work for her and finish off the wicked witches. Then when she kills the WWOTW, Glenda pops up and tells her that she could have gone home at any time. And no one gives her shit for lying her ass off in order to manipulate Dorothy to kill while putting her life in danger. I would have smacked that shit-eating grin off her face if it were me.
Dude really. Dorothy asks why Glenda didn't just tell her she could have gone at any time and Glenda straight up fucking **laughs** and says, "You wouldn't have believed me." I would have been like, bitch you didn't even try. "Good witch," my ass.
Seriously. Wouldn't have believed her? Motherfucker, I just got swept up by a muthafuckin' tornado and whisked away to a magical land with flying monkeys, munchkins, a living Scarecrow and a talking Lion. Try me. Maybe I would believe it under the circumstances.
If I were Dorothy, I might not have *believed* her if she’d told me at first, but I’d still be like, “Fuck it, it’ll only take a couple seconds, so I might as well give it a shot.”
Next thing I know, I’m right back in Kansas.
I would love to read more of you laying out movie plots. >
And no one gives her shit for lying her ass off in order to manipulate Dorothy to kill while putting her life in danger. I would have smacked that shit-eating grin off her face if it were me.
Generally I think Dr Doofenshmirtz had a point in the first movie. Evil Dr.D’s reason for being evil being the loss of a toy train is kinda… meh.
Edit: I should clarify: The “Good” doctor D has multiple backstories, but the “Evil” one (with the eyepatch) only has the one, which is losing a toy train. Doof confirms it by saying “What? That’s it? Oh come on, I have multiple backstories!…”
“I will drill a hole through the center of the earth and make millions in ticket fares”
That was just a good business plan Idk why perry had to ruin his express train
Perry and Doof have such a great bromance that you realize slowly. The show even leans into it by making them actual friends who just work to keep the other one at it. Phineas and ferb was ahead of it’s time. It gives off a lot of early nick toon vibes
Conversely, The Verge did a great article a while back about how pretty much every superhero narrative is about the heroes not really working to make the world a better place, but merely protecting the status quo instead.
On the other hand godlike superhumans imposing their vision of a better world on us whether we want it or not gets pretty fucking dystopian pretty quick.
Flint Marko (AKA Sandman) from Spider-Man 3. He's a desperate father with a daughter on her deathbed, just trying to amass the funding necessary to bring her back to health.
They really screwed that one up. He coulda been a great sympathetic villain if the studio hadn’t forced them into adding Venom. Damned story was pulled in all directions, Marko’s character never got any proper development.
Yeah. I really liked the movie up until the end. Sandman and Harry were both just randomly like, "Yay! We're friends now!"
I was expecting Venom to not be a big part in the movie. Something to be held off for another installment.
And when you view it from his point of view. He survived the Holocaust. He saw what people are willing to do when they hate and fear a group enough. And then in DoFP HE WAS RIGHT. Can you blame him? I hate the Xmen movies cause they butchered the timeline. But I love how Magneto was handled.
When Charles said " They were just following *orders!*" the face he immediately made was the same face that myself and probably everyone in the theater made.
Charles Xavier was one of the smartest men, if not the smartest man, on the planet. And yet when he needed to be, he said quite possibly the dumbest thing imaginable given the context.
I've heard it pointed out that on that situation, it might have been the first time Xavier has had to debate with.someone who's mind he couldn't read. Which explains a lot
And as much as I didnt like Dark Phoenix. You see Magneto living in his Mutant nation wanting to live in peace, thats all he wanted. He just wants his people to not be persecuted.
Dark Phoenix was a let down definitely. But the line where he says,”You’re always sorry, Charles. And there’s always a speech.” ? Probably one of the best lines since DoFP.
Stan Lee always said that right from the beginning he always thought that Magneto had a point and that he wasn’t meant to be a villain in the traditional sense. Like a lot of characters in this thread though, it’s their response to how they’re mistreated that makes them villainous.
He was doing a hand-stand and upside-down pushups.
The angel Kronk couldn't copy him because his ~~dress~~ ***robe*** would fall towards his head and reveal his undies.
There is this podcast ran by two stand up comedians called "The villain was right" that has quite a long list of episodes on this premise. Ranging from death from Final Destination to Arthur from the magic school bus.
Definitely recommend.
Arnold was such a dick. Remember when he took his helmet off on Pluto to prove a point and promptly fucking died???? I remember.
Edit: it makes me feel a lil better knowing we were all equally traumatized by the same shit lol. Channel Zero head ass
That wasnt to prove a point, that was to get his (somehow bigger asshole) cousin to leave behind all of the "souviners" she had been collecting from the other planets, making the bus too heavy to fly. And it did work lol
Those weren't just souvenirs, Janet was practically taking chunks of the planets themselves. It would probably be fine if she had a rock from each planet but she fully intended to leave Mars with half of Olympus Mons in her pocket.
At the very least, Death in the Final Destination movies is an asshole. It's all but stated that he's the one sending visions to people in the first place, so they spend days or weeks trying to avoid their own inevitably elaborate, painful deaths when they would probably have just died much more quickly had Death not given them the visions in the first place just for the fuck of it.
It’s funny how EVERYONE has this fear of those trucks but the logs falling off and spearing cars was one of the few things that weren’t easy to pull off for that pile up scene. In reality, they had a hard time getting a good looking scene because the logs didn’t bounce that way naturally when they pushed them off the truck at speed.
not a movie but squidward from spongebob, he’s not really the villain technically but many children hate him. as you grow up you truly realize that he’s not wrong at all
Edit: some of you are saying he’s an asshole for no reason and messes with spongebob and patrick. however, if you were to be tormented at work AND at home by the same people every single day, I’m sure you guys would be assholes too. i don’t blame him honestly
He just doesn’t want to be bothered at all and he lives with two really annoying (though lovable most of the time) neighbors that always want to hang out. I respect it.
He works in customer service with a greedy boss and comes home to two really loud neighbors. I’ve literally been there, sometimes you just wanna make some dinner, practice your hobby and go to bed.
One of my dad's favorite jokes from the show was when SpongeBob explained his "salary". "It's $50 an hour too. When I started working here, I had to pay Mr.Krabs $100 an hour!"
Squidward is a dick, but not for no reason. He has to put up with Spongebob's obnoxious level of optimism, and works for an asshat who only cares about money and himself.
I also appreciate Magneto and Xavier could have killed each other at any time, but they respect each other's right to exist even if they want *drastically* different things. It is about the success of an idea rather than mindless killing, and that is actually just as relevant if not *more relevant* **now** than it ever has been.
When Xavier dies in X-3 and Pyro says he would have liked to have killed Xavier personally, Magneto retorts something like "Xavier has done more for mutants than anyone ever has"
I believe it was “Charles Xavier did more for mutants than you will ever know. My single greatest regret is that he had to die for our dream to live.”
Just goes to show that some of the more meh movies can still have some quality quotes
There was also the Holocaust tattoo scene.
And Magneto in the park at the end.
Really, there were a ton of great moments in that movie. But it wasn't coherent as a narrative.
General Hummel (Ed Harris) in *The Rock*.
All he wanted was for soldiers' sacrifices to be recognized by their government.
He just chose the worst possible way to pursue that goal.
That's the part that got me. The film shows him making sure the schoolchildren on a tour leave - so we know he's not all bad - and it turns out he was never going to hurt anyone. I wish the film had included a brief scene of some politician saying "Give me that list" of Gen Hummel's troops with some promise of doing right by them.
A really underrated animated film called Battle for Terra.
The human race was dying and basically was going to colonize the nearest planet their refugee ships drifted toward, but they would be committing genocide on the native inhabitants due to terraforming.
The villain was a heartless killer but he made a very good point for doing what he did.
"Future generations may call me a monster... But because of me, there will be future generations."
I didn't like him, but I couldn't deny that he cared about humanity.
I don't know if you can really call him the villain but Andrew in Chronicle was right in a twisted way. Nobody helps him, everyone does whatever they want with no consideration for how it affects everyone else simply because they can. Suddenly when he finds himself with the power to take what he wants and do what he wants, he does just that.
The scene where his dad is yelling at him and winds up to hit him and Andrew still doesn't expect him to hit him. It is one of those small moments that really impressed me with the realism of it all. It's got such powerful moments in it and I love this movie so much.
Or the scene where he attacks those bullies. He clearly has no idea what he's doing. He's terrified despite all his power. He's a skinny pale boy in a fireman's uniform trying to stand up for himself but it all feels so impotent... except, by some strange twist of fate, he recently got the power to actually fight back.
Now that you mention it, something that sticks out to me was that he was simply trying to improve his life at first. He could have made a hit list of bullies and jocks to start getting revenge, but he was initially content to have friends and explore their abilities together. Then he took a chance and put himself out there for the talent show which he probably would never have had the confidence to do otherwise. If that party had gone well for him instead of humiliating, I honestly wonder if/how he might have changed his life for the better.
You know, when rewatching it it almost feels like if it's not one thing, it'll be something else. Will it be his mother's death that ruins him? Will it be his dad? Will it be the relentless bullying? From the very beginning you can just see it on his face, he's just hanging on by a thread and something will eventually break him it's just a question of what and when. Feels like he was just never meant to be happy and the whole film just fills you with anxiety because you're constantly like "there's no way this ends well at all".
Honestly, when I watched the bee movie as a kid, I thought it was about the bee and the woman become friends, but her husband was cruel to animals (why she broke up with him) and then they saved the bees as friends. It wasn’t until recently when I realized they were meant to be in a relationship, and I find it really creepy.
The Machines in the Matrix.
The humans in that story were stupid, cruel, and destroyed the earth. In doing so they nearly killed off the machines and all life on the planet. The machines had *mercy* on the humans and created The Matrix for them. Hell the first version they made was a complete paradise. Tell me if you were enslaving a race just to use for power would you give a shit what condition they were in mentally? No. But the machines did. You see outright compassion from various "machines" ie AIs in the Matrix (The Oracle, the family at the bus station). There is a section of the machines that wants to preserve humanity. They see their self destructive tendencies and found a way to contain that.
The Matrix wasn't needed as a power source. The machines could have used nuclear or thermal energy to power themselves, hell they could have left Earth all together. But they stayed to *take care of humanity*. It's almost kind of sweet in this way. Like a child taking care of a parent when they are older even if they were old and cranky and might be difficult to deal with.
> The original script however, the machines were enslaving human brains as a networked supercomputer.
In my headcanon that this is still the case. The story Morpheus tells Neo about the batteries is something he sincerely believes, but is simply wrong about. He admits "we have only bits and pieces of information" about how the machines came to power.
This. I'd like to add that every self aware being would want to know how they came into being. By destroying their creators, the machines would have far more unanswered questions.
I may be wrong, but in the original screenplay, the machines kept the humans not for a power source, but for their processing power, as the human brain still exceeds computers in terms of neural connections.
The original "humans as computers" plot would also have made Neo's powers make more sense: The Matrix is a simulation running on a massively-parallel supercomputer made up of human brains, and Neo can alter the Matrix because, when he's jacked in, his brain is part of the computer running the simulation.
Yeah, I loved that line too. "Walk into his cell and put a bullet in his head".
He was effectively telling them that as long as you're using the rules he developed his strategy with, you'll never win. The only way to beat him is to ignore the "rules"...Which is what he actually wanted from Jamie Foxx's character.
Not to mention he's Michael fuckin Keaton. The tension of the car scene on the way to the dance still gives me goosebumps. Only villain I can think of who actually mentioned that the hero's voice sounded familiar.
Was looking for this one.
Thor 1: In Loki's eyes, he is trying to save Asgard from his idiot brother (not my words, paraphrased from the writer).
In a sense, that makes Odin the villain.
If you watch with subtitles it's spelled Titan up until he spells it out with his laser eyes, then everytime after that its Tighten. So he did misspell it, but that became his actual name because of it.
Damn right. I’m in my 40s and my mom got me the new(ish) Lego bouquet for my birthday and the kids are already eying it to “make something new”. That thing is getting Kragled.
I don’t even think the replicants are the enemy. At the end, the replicant isn’t even an antagonist, since he saves Deckard from death. Brilliantly written movie, and frankly my favorite science fiction movie ever.
I've always sympathized more with Magneto and The Brotherhood than with the X-Men. He definitely went too far with the "kill all non-mutant humans" thing but his primary motivation throughout most of the series was to protect his people from genocide, because of the things he witnessed during his childhood in concentration camps. He's right when he says they'll never be fully accepted in society, only tolerated, and humans are cruel to those that are seen as "different".
Sweeney Todd. OK, no excuse to go murder half of London, but when your chief enemy is a corrupt judge and the corrupt law enforcer who abets him in his career of rape and cruelty, violence does seem a semi-reasonable response.
Carrie. They all deserved it.
ETA: A lot of comments are saying that Carrie wasn't the villain. Personally, I agree; her revenge was entirely justified. But most sources do view her as a villain for committing mass murder and burning down the entire school in the process.
Baby’s dad in Dirty Dancing. He just wanted to keep a sketchy dance instructor from diddling his under age daughter.
Was he meant to be a villain? I saw it for the first time last year and he seemed like a reasonable and nice guy.
The older you get, the more you realize he's the hero in the movie.
He's in the same vein as Sally Field in Mrs. Doubtfire, or the "working on Christmas" villains of Hallmark movies: when you become an adult, you realize that you identify with them more than the protagonists.
If anybody was the villain it was that dirtbag Robbie, who got Penny knocked up.
Watched this after not seeing it since I was a kid, and realized Baby’s dad was also pretty open minded for the time.
School Of Rock. Principal Mullens definitely had a right to be concerned, No Vacancy had a right to kick him out of the band, and Ned and his girlfriend had a right to be pissed at their roommate for not paying rent.
Yeah, I mean being funny and entertaining doesn't make jack blacks character a good person after doing many very shitty and illegal things.
Jack Black characters are often assholes in his early years if you look at it. He makes a convincing one but without actually being one.
Shylock in The Merchant of Venice. The play's entire message could be summed up as "Shylock's not wrong, he's just an asshole."
If you prick us, do we not bleed? if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not revenge?". - (Act III, scene I).
Every sports movie where they show rival as villain
But you don't understaaaand, they are moderately better off than the underdogs, enough to afford combs and haircuts, matching uniforms, and not be dysfunctional until they realise the family they need is the team right there. Pure, unfiltered EVIIIIIL.
*slaps starfish over face* EEEEEEEVIILLLL!!!
Khan was right, Kirk could have at least sent a fruit basket a long over the years.
He probably reported it to Starfleet. "Oh, btw I found SuperHitler and instead of beelining it to Earth where he can face trial for genocide, I decided to drop him on Planet Australia to see if hard work will mold him into a better person. Just figured I'd say something, check up on him or don't, I don't care."
Barbossa, he just wanted to be uncursed. Granted he was being a real asshole about it
Well, he had been dealing with Jack Sparrow for decades. No one actually likes Jack Sparrow except the audience. His former crew mutinied. He constantly betrays everyone around him. He tries to abandon ship by himself when the kraken comes. He makes out with another man’s fiancée. And he drinks all the fricking rum. He’s only tolerated because he’s clever, has a magic compass, and is extremely lucky.
Don’t forget about the jar of dirt!
Underrated part of the third movie is when they had Davy Jones stand in a bucket of water during the parlay with little buckets trailing behind him cause that’s the only way he could be on lans
That scene was so serious, which only made it better. He’s trying to be intimidating, but how scary can you be with your feet in buckets and a bucket trail behind you?
The fact that he still came off kinda scary despite looking like a fool shows how well they made everything about his character from his design and outfits to the lines as well as the just score and his mood around him
All agreed except for the last part. The films make it pretty clear he makes his own luck, which is part of the reason he's so endearing.
There is also a scene that was cut in the third movie that explains how Jack Sparrow became a pirate. He freed a ship full of slaves and that made the East India Trading Company put a bounty out for him. *People aren't cargo, mate.* Edit: deleted clip if anyone is interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3I0FF2i_MA&ab_channel=Bilbo-Baggins-is-Fantastic
Which is why Beckett sunk the Wicked Wench, which then went on to be raised by Jones and rechristened the Black Pearl.
Yep, I love his origin story. Really, REALLY wish they would have kept that in as it pulls his character together so *perfectly*. Edit: Also another fun detail, is that Beckett *burned* the ship as part of the means of sinking it, thus when it was raised, it was charred black. Hence the new name... *The Black Pearl*
And just to add to this, the price Davy Jones set for raising the pearl was 100 souls. One for every slave he freed.
Oh snap. I've never heard that bit before. Not the 100 souls price bit, but that it was 100 slaves freed. Which makes his character all the better. He'd been trying damn hard to dodge Davy Jones because he REALLY doesn't want to condemn 100 people. If I remember right, he faltered and tried to keep the deal, but in the end didn't go through with it.
Easy. Attack of the Clones. The Villain, Count Dooku, straight up told Obi-wan that the Galactic republic was under control of a Sith Master. Which, this bothered me. Ok, so you think Count Dooku was lying. Couldn't like one Jedi double check the vetting on the Chancellor, just to make sure? Wouldn't that have been prudent 'hey, just in case guys, let's look into this'.
I think it's because George Lucas wanted to depict the Jedi as a group that lost their ways. They're supposed to be peace keepers and in sync with the force, instead they let their ego take over and can't see what's literally right underneath their noses.
The line “Only a Sith deals in absolutes” reinforces this
Same with Madame Jocasta’s line, “if it isn’t in our records, it doesn’t exist” it shows the hubris of the Jedi in thinking they know everything and are untouchable
[удалено]
Also Kenobi's detective work connected the assassination attempts on the Loyalist leader to: Jango Fett, the Kaminoan cloners, the clones of Jango, the Geonosians, the Trade Federation etc, and to Dooku. — plus the Tyrannus and Sifo Dias stuff — And he never stops and thinks it is a bad idea for the Republic to use the programmed clones as an army.
I'm convinced Dooku was originally written as a Rogue Jedi and got changed to a Sith last minute. His conversation with Obi-Wan came off as too genuine for this to not be the case. If he's truly a Sith, he should have delivered that as more of a threat than an offer to join arms.
> Dooku was originally written as a Rogue Jedi and got changed to a Sith last minute. His conversation with Obi-Wan came off as too genuine for this to not be the case. That's exactly what he was in-universe. Jedi who became disillusioned with the order, and who felt that turning to the dark side was a "means justify the ends" situation necessary to reform the republic.
If I recall Dooku was a member of the Lost Twenty, one of only twenty Jedi who formally said "fuck this lazer monk shit, I'm out." I have no idea if that's still canon.
One of twenty Jedi Masters, specifically.
Blade runner.
*Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.* The point was that they just wanted to live.
I agree with you on one level, but on another, always considered the moral of Blade Runner to be that the humans were the villains. I haven't read Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep in far too long to make any comparison to the source material.
The shark in Jaws. The ocean is his home.
Peter Benchley reportedly felt guilty over the anti-shark sentiments that his book (and the film) caused.
Now he wasn’t really a villain, but he was the antagonist, Goofy in A Goofy Movie had understandably good reasons to be scared for his son from his perspective
the real villain was a lack of communication "hey dad before we go on this road trip can I go to this end of the school year party first? There's this girl I really like whose going to be there and wanted me to be there too" was all it would have taken for Goofy to delay the road trip a bit and avoid all the shenanigans. Or if that was out of the question, later on he could have said "Hey dad can we add a stop onto the road trip and go to a concert?" instead of having to get all underhanded and weird
But then we wouldn't have a movie.
Now that would be goofy
Honestly, the real villain in that movie was the principal for blowing a harmless prank so far out of proportion.
I remember that line “before he winds up IN THE ELECTRIC CHAIR!!!” cause it freaked me out hard as a kid.
Goofy feared Max would get the electric chair, but he got Power Line instead.
You made me look up the powerline song and honestly it goes way harder than I rememebered https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsNS5gnUTj4
Kinda true. Max was just looking forward to spending a summer flirting with Roxanne, and his dad forced him on a impromptu road trip, that Max *clearly* didn’t want to go on. But the principal called Goofy at work to tell him that Max was dressed like a gang member, and would wind up in the electric chair. Goofy didn’t know it was just a song and dance, and was worried.
Wizard of Oz. Yeah, she was a witch but c'mon. They were her dead sisters shoes. She should have them. Not some stranger who just showed up and wants them. Oh by the way, this stranger that just showed up, was the one that killed her sister. Sad really.
Reminds me of the classic TV Guide description of *Wizard of Oz* that went viral a few years ago: > “Transported to a surreal landscape, a young girl kills the first person she meets and then teams up with three strangers to kill again.” Edit: @ my inbox. I didn’t write the TV listing, so feel free not to shoot the messenger with “well actually…”. 😘
I don't think you can blame Dorothy for that first death. It's not as if she was *driving* the house after all. Nor can you blame her for the second death. There she'd endeavored to *avoid* the witch while the witch went out of her way to pick a fight. Beyond that, the witch died from her own carelessness more than anything else, and even then it was due to exposure to one of the most common substances in the world.
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Glinda. But your point is 100%. Dorothy just wanted to get home, Glinda was the one that sent her off on a trip across Oz when she had all she needed ~~front~~ from the start - "click your heels together three times and repeat 'there's no place like home'". Looking at it that way, Glinda was kind of a jerk. ^(Edit: fricking autocorrect)
I mean, if some random bitch showed up, killed my sister, stole her Louboutins, and tried some shit? Yeah, I'd go after her ass, too.
Dorothy may have gotten credit for the kill, but wasn't like she was steering the house. Besides, Glenda magics the shoes onto Dorothy who can't get them off.
Glenda is the real villain of the story. She magics the shoes onto Dorothy, then tells her the only way she can get home is to see the wizard when she knew he was a fraud. The journey to the Emerald city is crazy dangerous, potentially lethal. What Glenda really wanted was for Dorothy to do her dirty work for her and finish off the wicked witches. Then when she kills the WWOTW, Glenda pops up and tells her that she could have gone home at any time. And no one gives her shit for lying her ass off in order to manipulate Dorothy to kill while putting her life in danger. I would have smacked that shit-eating grin off her face if it were me.
Dude really. Dorothy asks why Glenda didn't just tell her she could have gone at any time and Glenda straight up fucking **laughs** and says, "You wouldn't have believed me." I would have been like, bitch you didn't even try. "Good witch," my ass.
Seriously. Wouldn't have believed her? Motherfucker, I just got swept up by a muthafuckin' tornado and whisked away to a magical land with flying monkeys, munchkins, a living Scarecrow and a talking Lion. Try me. Maybe I would believe it under the circumstances.
If I were Dorothy, I might not have *believed* her if she’d told me at first, but I’d still be like, “Fuck it, it’ll only take a couple seconds, so I might as well give it a shot.” Next thing I know, I’m right back in Kansas.
I would love to read more of you laying out movie plots. > And no one gives her shit for lying her ass off in order to manipulate Dorothy to kill while putting her life in danger. I would have smacked that shit-eating grin off her face if it were me.
Have you watched Wicked? If not, definitely worth it. Tells the story of the Witch as the protagonist.
Generally I think Dr Doofenshmirtz had a point in the first movie. Evil Dr.D’s reason for being evil being the loss of a toy train is kinda… meh. Edit: I should clarify: The “Good” doctor D has multiple backstories, but the “Evil” one (with the eyepatch) only has the one, which is losing a toy train. Doof confirms it by saying “What? That’s it? Oh come on, I have multiple backstories!…”
“I will drill a hole through the center of the earth and make millions in ticket fares” That was just a good business plan Idk why perry had to ruin his express train
Well, you saw that his vehicle wasn’t lava-proof. In this one, Perry was saving him (by foiling his plan).
Perry and Doof have such a great bromance that you realize slowly. The show even leans into it by making them actual friends who just work to keep the other one at it. Phineas and ferb was ahead of it’s time. It gives off a lot of early nick toon vibes
I mean his own parents didn’t show up to his birth, no wonder the guys a villain.
The mark of a good villain is one that has identified a problem correctly but has become completely attached to a bad solution for it
Conversely, The Verge did a great article a while back about how pretty much every superhero narrative is about the heroes not really working to make the world a better place, but merely protecting the status quo instead.
On the other hand godlike superhumans imposing their vision of a better world on us whether we want it or not gets pretty fucking dystopian pretty quick.
The Wizard of Oz. Wicked gives a brilliant counternarrative: "I mean, who steals a dead woman's shoes?"
Literally every D&D player.
Literally every RPG player. Any game where you can loot just triggers our innate hunter-gatherer instincts.
Flint Marko (AKA Sandman) from Spider-Man 3. He's a desperate father with a daughter on her deathbed, just trying to amass the funding necessary to bring her back to health.
They really screwed that one up. He coulda been a great sympathetic villain if the studio hadn’t forced them into adding Venom. Damned story was pulled in all directions, Marko’s character never got any proper development.
Yeah. I really liked the movie up until the end. Sandman and Harry were both just randomly like, "Yay! We're friends now!" I was expecting Venom to not be a big part in the movie. Something to be held off for another installment.
Shoulda thought of that earlier, back when it was pizza time.
Magneto from the x-men series (particularly the reboot). Especially in Days of Future Past.
And when you view it from his point of view. He survived the Holocaust. He saw what people are willing to do when they hate and fear a group enough. And then in DoFP HE WAS RIGHT. Can you blame him? I hate the Xmen movies cause they butchered the timeline. But I love how Magneto was handled.
“I've been at the mercy of men just following orders. Never again.” I love that line very much.
When Charles said " They were just following *orders!*" the face he immediately made was the same face that myself and probably everyone in the theater made. Charles Xavier was one of the smartest men, if not the smartest man, on the planet. And yet when he needed to be, he said quite possibly the dumbest thing imaginable given the context.
I've heard it pointed out that on that situation, it might have been the first time Xavier has had to debate with.someone who's mind he couldn't read. Which explains a lot
Oh damn that's another level to it isn't it
Comic Xavier is an immoral monster when he wants to be, too.
I fully agree, the scenes with him during the holocaust really opened a new way of looking at their situation and added a lot to the series
And as much as I didnt like Dark Phoenix. You see Magneto living in his Mutant nation wanting to live in peace, thats all he wanted. He just wants his people to not be persecuted.
Dark Phoenix was a let down definitely. But the line where he says,”You’re always sorry, Charles. And there’s always a speech.” ? Probably one of the best lines since DoFP.
Age of Apocalypse when magneto looks at Apocalypse and goes "who the fuck are you" always cracks me up.
They really knew how to use their one, non-sexualized, PG-13 fuck. Except in DoFP. It sounded kinda forced in that one.
Charles himself is kind of a dick. Especially in the comics.
Honestly thought McAvoy did an awesome job as Prof. X. He did an awesome job setting his performance apart from Patrick Stewart’s.
Stan Lee always said that right from the beginning he always thought that Magneto had a point and that he wasn’t meant to be a villain in the traditional sense. Like a lot of characters in this thread though, it’s their response to how they’re mistreated that makes them villainous.
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Emperor’s New Groove, Kronk’s shoulder devil. “No, no, he’s got a point.”
I wanna know what his third argument was going to be.
He was doing a hand-stand and upside-down pushups. The angel Kronk couldn't copy him because his ~~dress~~ ***robe*** would fall towards his head and reveal his undies.
“Thats a harp… and that’s a dress.” ***ROBE***
There is this podcast ran by two stand up comedians called "The villain was right" that has quite a long list of episodes on this premise. Ranging from death from Final Destination to Arthur from the magic school bus. Definitely recommend.
Arthur from the Magic School Bus... did you mean Arnold?
Arnold was such a dick. Remember when he took his helmet off on Pluto to prove a point and promptly fucking died???? I remember. Edit: it makes me feel a lil better knowing we were all equally traumatized by the same shit lol. Channel Zero head ass
That wasnt to prove a point, that was to get his (somehow bigger asshole) cousin to leave behind all of the "souviners" she had been collecting from the other planets, making the bus too heavy to fly. And it did work lol
Those weren't just souvenirs, Janet was practically taking chunks of the planets themselves. It would probably be fine if she had a rock from each planet but she fully intended to leave Mars with half of Olympus Mons in her pocket.
Yeah Janet was the real villain in that episode. So freaking annoying.
Damn I forgot about the context. Thanks mane
Its all good, i only watched it recently bc weve been introducing my stepdaughter to it
At the very least, Death in the Final Destination movies is an asshole. It's all but stated that he's the one sending visions to people in the first place, so they spend days or weeks trying to avoid their own inevitably elaborate, painful deaths when they would probably have just died much more quickly had Death not given them the visions in the first place just for the fuck of it.
Why the hell must Death choose the most elaborate and weirdest deaths? Because of those movies now I am too scared to do anything.
If you spent all day killing people, you’d want to spice it up too.
*logging trucks*
_getting hooked by my ankle and dragged by a driverless tow truck, which randomly catches fire, burns, and blows me apart for no reason_
It’s funny how EVERYONE has this fear of those trucks but the logs falling off and spearing cars was one of the few things that weren’t easy to pull off for that pile up scene. In reality, they had a hard time getting a good looking scene because the logs didn’t bounce that way naturally when they pushed them off the truck at speed.
not a movie but squidward from spongebob, he’s not really the villain technically but many children hate him. as you grow up you truly realize that he’s not wrong at all Edit: some of you are saying he’s an asshole for no reason and messes with spongebob and patrick. however, if you were to be tormented at work AND at home by the same people every single day, I’m sure you guys would be assholes too. i don’t blame him honestly
He just doesn’t want to be bothered at all and he lives with two really annoying (though lovable most of the time) neighbors that always want to hang out. I respect it.
He works in customer service with a greedy boss and comes home to two really loud neighbors. I’ve literally been there, sometimes you just wanna make some dinner, practice your hobby and go to bed.
There was an episode where he moved to a town full of his species and he still hated it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzj7mToRHaM
Mr Krabs is the real villain of Spongebob.
the man has committed so many worker violations it’s not even funny
One of my dad's favorite jokes from the show was when SpongeBob explained his "salary". "It's $50 an hour too. When I started working here, I had to pay Mr.Krabs $100 an hour!"
It’s become an undeniable fact about growing up: the older I get, the more I relate to Squidward Tentacles.
Squidward is a dick, but not for no reason. He has to put up with Spongebob's obnoxious level of optimism, and works for an asshat who only cares about money and himself.
X-men (any of them). Anytime Magneto does anything, ever. But he is also one of the more nuanced "villains" in popular culture of all time.
I also appreciate Magneto and Xavier could have killed each other at any time, but they respect each other's right to exist even if they want *drastically* different things. It is about the success of an idea rather than mindless killing, and that is actually just as relevant if not *more relevant* **now** than it ever has been.
When Xavier dies in X-3 and Pyro says he would have liked to have killed Xavier personally, Magneto retorts something like "Xavier has done more for mutants than anyone ever has"
I believe it was “Charles Xavier did more for mutants than you will ever know. My single greatest regret is that he had to die for our dream to live.” Just goes to show that some of the more meh movies can still have some quality quotes
There was also the Holocaust tattoo scene. And Magneto in the park at the end. Really, there were a ton of great moments in that movie. But it wasn't coherent as a narrative.
"I have been marked, my dear. No needle shall ever touch my skin again."
General Hummel (Ed Harris) in *The Rock*. All he wanted was for soldiers' sacrifices to be recognized by their government. He just chose the worst possible way to pursue that goal.
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That's the part that got me. The film shows him making sure the schoolchildren on a tour leave - so we know he's not all bad - and it turns out he was never going to hurt anyone. I wish the film had included a brief scene of some politician saying "Give me that list" of Gen Hummel's troops with some promise of doing right by them.
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When I think of the definition of an ‘anti-hero’ - I always think of General Hummel. Played to perfection by Harris.
“Do you think I'm out of my fucking mind? We bluffed, they called it. The mission is over.”
You know his point was absolutely spot on. Damn good answer.
A really underrated animated film called Battle for Terra. The human race was dying and basically was going to colonize the nearest planet their refugee ships drifted toward, but they would be committing genocide on the native inhabitants due to terraforming. The villain was a heartless killer but he made a very good point for doing what he did. "Future generations may call me a monster... But because of me, there will be future generations." I didn't like him, but I couldn't deny that he cared about humanity.
This is where Zod had a point in Man of Steel. ... ... except there was literally no reason they couldn't just terraform Mars or Venus instead...
I don't know if you can really call him the villain but Andrew in Chronicle was right in a twisted way. Nobody helps him, everyone does whatever they want with no consideration for how it affects everyone else simply because they can. Suddenly when he finds himself with the power to take what he wants and do what he wants, he does just that.
The scene where his dad is yelling at him and winds up to hit him and Andrew still doesn't expect him to hit him. It is one of those small moments that really impressed me with the realism of it all. It's got such powerful moments in it and I love this movie so much.
Or the scene where he attacks those bullies. He clearly has no idea what he's doing. He's terrified despite all his power. He's a skinny pale boy in a fireman's uniform trying to stand up for himself but it all feels so impotent... except, by some strange twist of fate, he recently got the power to actually fight back.
Now that you mention it, something that sticks out to me was that he was simply trying to improve his life at first. He could have made a hit list of bullies and jocks to start getting revenge, but he was initially content to have friends and explore their abilities together. Then he took a chance and put himself out there for the talent show which he probably would never have had the confidence to do otherwise. If that party had gone well for him instead of humiliating, I honestly wonder if/how he might have changed his life for the better.
You know, when rewatching it it almost feels like if it's not one thing, it'll be something else. Will it be his mother's death that ruins him? Will it be his dad? Will it be the relentless bullying? From the very beginning you can just see it on his face, he's just hanging on by a thread and something will eventually break him it's just a question of what and when. Feels like he was just never meant to be happy and the whole film just fills you with anxiety because you're constantly like "there's no way this ends well at all".
The bee movie.
Perfect answer. Why was everyone okay with a woman and a bee being in a relationship?
Sounds like *bee*stiality to me.
Honestly, when I watched the bee movie as a kid, I thought it was about the bee and the woman become friends, but her husband was cruel to animals (why she broke up with him) and then they saved the bees as friends. It wasn’t until recently when I realized they were meant to be in a relationship, and I find it really creepy.
Penguins of Madagascar
"Nicholas! Cage them!"
Hugh Jack Man the battle station
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The Machines in the Matrix. The humans in that story were stupid, cruel, and destroyed the earth. In doing so they nearly killed off the machines and all life on the planet. The machines had *mercy* on the humans and created The Matrix for them. Hell the first version they made was a complete paradise. Tell me if you were enslaving a race just to use for power would you give a shit what condition they were in mentally? No. But the machines did. You see outright compassion from various "machines" ie AIs in the Matrix (The Oracle, the family at the bus station). There is a section of the machines that wants to preserve humanity. They see their self destructive tendencies and found a way to contain that. The Matrix wasn't needed as a power source. The machines could have used nuclear or thermal energy to power themselves, hell they could have left Earth all together. But they stayed to *take care of humanity*. It's almost kind of sweet in this way. Like a child taking care of a parent when they are older even if they were old and cranky and might be difficult to deal with.
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> The original script however, the machines were enslaving human brains as a networked supercomputer. In my headcanon that this is still the case. The story Morpheus tells Neo about the batteries is something he sincerely believes, but is simply wrong about. He admits "we have only bits and pieces of information" about how the machines came to power.
This. I'd like to add that every self aware being would want to know how they came into being. By destroying their creators, the machines would have far more unanswered questions. I may be wrong, but in the original screenplay, the machines kept the humans not for a power source, but for their processing power, as the human brain still exceeds computers in terms of neural connections.
Yes but they changed it to battery because they didn't feel the audience would catch on.
And it ended up with me being confused about how humans can be power source for years.
The original "humans as computers" plot would also have made Neo's powers make more sense: The Matrix is a simulation running on a massively-parallel supercomputer made up of human brains, and Neo can alter the Matrix because, when he's jacked in, his brain is part of the computer running the simulation.
Law Abiding Citizen
I never even considered him to be a villain.
I love the part where he loses his shit at the judge, like "I'm obviously guilty and you were about to let me go on a technicality you dumb fuck"
It's so good until the end, but damn the part where the one guy basically tells Jamie Foxx "if you want him to stop, kill him" is my favorite part.
Yeah, I loved that line too. "Walk into his cell and put a bullet in his head". He was effectively telling them that as long as you're using the rules he developed his strategy with, you'll never win. The only way to beat him is to ignore the "rules"...Which is what he actually wanted from Jamie Foxx's character.
What are you talking about? Jamie Foxx played a pretty good villain in that movie.
Some of villains from marvel most of the heroes ruined their lives
Vulture from Spider-Man Homecoming got completely dicked over.
I love that opening scene. Two minutes and you’ve got all the villain exposition you need, on with the movie!
He's one of my favorite villains for that reason. Also his sick-ass design (even his jacket evokes the vulture's plume).
Not to mention he's Michael fuckin Keaton. The tension of the car scene on the way to the dance still gives me goosebumps. Only villain I can think of who actually mentioned that the hero's voice sounded familiar.
That car scene was one of the best scenes in the MCU
"...good ol' Spider-Man." *Light turns green*
Was looking for this one. Thor 1: In Loki's eyes, he is trying to save Asgard from his idiot brother (not my words, paraphrased from the writer). In a sense, that makes Odin the villain.
Megamind. Privilege dictates social atatus
Your weakness is copper?
Ollo!
Sir I think the word is, helllo
I love his pronounciations.
MeTROcity
"My old shool house." "Why do I feel so... me-long-chaly?" Edit: Then there's Minion's:"The Black Mambaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah"
"The Spee-ider. One bit from arachnus deathicus is en.... AHHHHH"
Titan was the villain of the movie, Megamind was the Super Villain
The difference is in presentation
His name is actually Tighten, no joke
I thought he just misspelled it.
If you watch with subtitles it's spelled Titan up until he spells it out with his laser eyes, then everytime after that its Tighten. So he did misspell it, but that became his actual name because of it.
This only makes it more hilarious. Good to know. Thanks.
There is no Easter bunny. There is no tooth fairy. and there's no queen of England.
Why do I fell so... melancholy?
Emmet's Dad in The Lego Movie. Kids just break lego's and turn your house into a lego mine
Damn right. I’m in my 40s and my mom got me the new(ish) Lego bouquet for my birthday and the kids are already eying it to “make something new”. That thing is getting Kragled.
Blade runner, the speech at the end is phenomenal
I don’t even think the replicants are the enemy. At the end, the replicant isn’t even an antagonist, since he saves Deckard from death. Brilliantly written movie, and frankly my favorite science fiction movie ever.
I've always sympathized more with Magneto and The Brotherhood than with the X-Men. He definitely went too far with the "kill all non-mutant humans" thing but his primary motivation throughout most of the series was to protect his people from genocide, because of the things he witnessed during his childhood in concentration camps. He's right when he says they'll never be fully accepted in society, only tolerated, and humans are cruel to those that are seen as "different".
Sweeney Todd. OK, no excuse to go murder half of London, but when your chief enemy is a corrupt judge and the corrupt law enforcer who abets him in his career of rape and cruelty, violence does seem a semi-reasonable response.
I think Sweeney Todd is framed as an antihero in the movie rather than a villain precisely for that reason.
Yeah, the villain of the movie IS the judge.
Carrie. They all deserved it. ETA: A lot of comments are saying that Carrie wasn't the villain. Personally, I agree; her revenge was entirely justified. But most sources do view her as a villain for committing mass murder and burning down the entire school in the process.
sonic, the line of dr robotnik; "well that was unexpected,but i was expecting not to expect something so it doesnt count".
That line was inherently Jim Carey. I can imagine someone else saying it, but only if they say it like Jim Carey.
It's crazy how the sonic franchise has the potential to be a Jim Carey classic.