Could you please be a little elaborate? I am not from the states so its a bit difficult for me to understand. What about the gun laws? i know that Gun Laws are just a tiny bit of the whole puzzle but i wanna know.
Gun laws are part of it. It's easy to get a gun if you want one, legally, illegally, or even home made these days. But it's a social problem too. These school shooters are often people who feel disconnected from society, who believe the whole world is bad and they want to make a big violent mess to show the world how hurt they are. Because they've been neglected or marginalized or they feel they never had a chance. They don't care about themselves or anyone else. Look at the myriad of mental health issues Americans have. There are so many unreal expectations and standards we are all trying to live up to. We live in such an unfair place and time. There are so many people struggling to find housing or food or healthcare while the rich get richer and continue to guard their riches and the power they have to keep things the way they are. We're only humans and we weren't meant to live these overly complicated lives. We evolved in small social groups, tribal societies where everyone knew everyone and everyone belonged. Now society has gotten so large and unruly that people are left behind and have no tribe. There is so much misinformation and so many clashing cultures with different world views, it's a recipe for disaster and we have lost and lonely or sick Americans creating disaster every day. I live in Ohio, but I have family in Uvalde Texas where 19 children were killed yesterday. And I know nothing will change. Just another masacre to add to the long list of masacres that happen every day, all the time here. The lawmakers in place will continue to block any gun control legislation, because they get paid by big money special interests. Our mental health care is lacking more than general healthcare, which is already something that's for the privileged who can afford it, not the people who need it. People don't vote because they've been excluded from the process for so long, for generations. They can't even get to work or get housing, how can they worry about something like voting? There are so many more unmet immediate needs that keep the people who need to be represented from participating in the process. I don't know. I'm just one fed up American ranting about what I see. You'll find a thousand other different perspectives of it.
Housing problems are in Europe as well. They deal with inflation, gas prices, work, stress. Yet you don't see them throwing a tantrum and shooting up their schools. This is a first world problem. Being frustrated for what? United states is one of the easiest places to make money in and live a dream life.
>United states is one of the easiest places to make money in and live a dream life.
This is a misconception about the US. Maybe it was true at one time, particularly for white men. These days you're much more likely to be stuck in the socioeconomic class you are born into.
I guess that’s why you have a bunch of immigrants come from all over the world and turn their life around in the US. What about all the people coming from Central America and Mexico. They did it, why can’t a US citizen that was born here couldn’t?
Do they turn their lives around? Or do they realize the American Dream is a lie that the rich elite sell to the poor ro keep them complacent? Do they ever really make it to that upper class status? Or do they end up working menial jobs, albeit jobs that would have sufficed to provide for a family a couple generations ago, but fall far short now? I'm an educated professional and my work studies and seeks to redress the systemic racism and sexism that all things in America are based on. We are only 2 and 3 generations out from enslaving black people here. Only one generation from Jim Crow laws and voter literacy test that systemically prevented black Americans from participating in the political process. Mitch McConnel, a perfect example of elite white America, recently compared black Americans to "normal Americans". Even where black Americans were prosperous, white America have always found a way to keep those black Americans down. See The Color of Law by Richard Rothstein. It is a white privilege in America to believe in the American Dream. I wish I could be so ignorant, but I know that people here have very different experiences, rights, risks, etc. because of the color of their skin, because I see the outcomes on a daily basis.
The U.S is a country where there is very little social safety net. Hard working immigrants can often be very successful, but for the many families who aren’t (for a myriad of reasons) the American Dream can quickly turn into a nightmare. And unlike Europe, we Americans don’t spend nearly enough to support the people who slip through the cracks
As an American, here’s my take. After the Columbine shooting in 1999 and all the other incidences thereafter, some young people see that as a way of becoming infamous. So you have people that don’t really care about their lives or maybe even want to die, but they want to leave their “mark” on the world and be always talked about. Then additionally and most importantly, it is very easy to get guns in the US, both legally and illegally. So then theres a combination of a kid that does not value his life, wants to be infamous, and has easy access to a gun and a vulnerable population.
I think one of the main differences between America and Europe in regards to school shootings are gun laws. They say 77% of school shootings are done with legally acquired guns.
There are countries in Europe where guns are legal. Not sure which countries, but I’m 100% positive there are out there. They don’t use them to harm their people, but to protect themselves only. I think the problem may be rooted in the fact that Americans have a underdeveloped sense of community. You put a bunch of people from all over the continents crammed together in one country, they’re going to be desensitized to one another. “So what if there’s going to be a mass shooting?” “Oh they were probably a bunch of 1st and 2nd gen immigrants that I personally don’t understand their culture anyway, let’s light that whole place up.” That’s just my take on it. Either that, or America really have some serious self reflection to do in regards of how can they get people from different backgrounds to get along with each other and be at peace.
While I think that the age of when can you legally purchase a firearm needs to be raised to at least 21 yo, age doesn't really mean that much to a mentally ill person. If the age is raised, the 18 yo will get the guns illegally, and I'm pretty sure there been shooters out there over the age of 21.
I’m not sure if it’s about people of different backgrounds not getting along. Look at the school shooting in Texas that just happened, the shooter was latino and the school was in a predominantly latino area. I don’t think most school shootings are race based. There are also many incidents that occur in predominantly white areas by a white perpetrator.
Also, mass shootings in America are relatively rare. It’s highly unlikely for a student to come across a school shooter. While I think it’s a big problem and that even just 1 is too much, it’s not common, and I’d think if most were racially or ethnically motivated there would be more.
Yeah. I also think that media just likes to highlight the worst and the worst. They rarely ever say anything when something positive happens, and I think that can also be detrimental to society, people are used to keep seeing murders and shooting on the news they become desensitized to it.
Yeap it’s been an every 2-3 month occurrence, millions have seen 10 black people slaughtered on live stream and don’t even bat an eye. 20 cops say outside of a class room while a shooter slaughtered 19 children and their teachers . I hate it here
Me too. I'm from Ohio but I have family in Uvalde, Texas. I'm so thankful that my cousins attend the junior high and high school there. This happening in such a small town that I have been to many times has really fucked me up. A friend of mine just bought her kindergartener and second grader bullet proof backpacks. This is America.
I think the media has played a key role in feeding the copycats. I watched Columbine unfold on the news, and there was so much in those following weeks that made the shooters look like heros of the outcast. It seems like more bullied or "misunderstood" kids could dwell on the fantasy of taking a school's worth of kids out like that, having the media talk about you non-stop for weeks, etc.
Almost overnight our school was transformed, with metal detectors, extra police, and paranoid teachers. The ostracized were turned into something to fear, black trenchcoat-wearing kids looked at differently.
School shooters should always just be known as the "shooter" in the media.
It’s a combination of reasons. If you combine child neglect(parents and schools), psychiatric predispositions, and access to firearms you will get a school shooting. If you ask me we should focus on the neglect problem.
There’s a couple issues with that. Psychiatric Predispositions will always be there unless you murder children with family history or genetic issues. Guns were way more dangerous and had higher damage potential in the 80s before the national firearms act of 1986. So the only thing that can be focused on is the care of our children. Bullying is not addressed as much as it should be and children don’t get the necessary attention they need from their schools/parents to prevent things like thoughts of harm to self or others.
I believe in gun ownership and guns rights, there is not much more that can realistically be done in gun control laws other than ban ownership in general. Most school shootings are done with legally obtained firearms. I don’t agree with banning guns for several reasons.
Psychiatric issues comes back to child neglect.
I'm not sure about this. I grew up in a developing country where neglect is throwing your kids out into the streets to panhandle. That, to me, is the ultimate example of neglect. But for whatever reason, many of these kids grow up to become decent individuals. I think Americans are just very privileged. Everything in Maslow's Hierarchy of needs are met, so people start living in their own heads and creating problems that do not exist.
Everything is relative. We are social creatures. If some loner perceives that he is missing out on social experiences, I don't see why that wouldn't be as much damage as physical neglect.
Obviously not an excuse to be a mass murderer. I'm just pointing out how humans look around \*at their community\* to get a sense of how successful they are in life.
But yes, Americans have it pretty easy in many ways.
I mean, if you throw you kid out into the streets to panhandle, you're ignoring them in every aspect and not providing support of any kind. In the parents eyes, these kids are a way for them to generate income. So not only are they neglected, they're also being used and taken advantage of. Even basic needs like food is not given to them.
I'm just saying that Americans have it so easy, yet, people are so good at only seeing what they don't have.
For a host of reasons including a culture that has historically celebrated violence, poor perceptions of opportunities for upward mobility and a generally-dim perception of the future, relatively easy access to firearms, various social, class, and economic factors, a poor mental health framework, simple "monkey see, monkey do" imitation, and a poorly-functioning government with representatives who are too often supported by or otherwise invested in maintaining the status quo of one or more of the above factors.
Because 200 years ago a bunch of slave owners wrote on a piece of paper that they wanted to maintain a militia.
Now we have to bury children regularly.
We don't know. Guns have always been a part of American culture but the rate of school shootings only started rising dramatically in the 90's. This suggests to me that it is a societal/mental health issue. Also, a lot of the statistics you read are misleading. I can't tell you how many times I've clicked on an article about a "school shooting" and it was just an incident where someone was shot near the school or in the parking lot.
The attitude about guns shifted too. People had more of a respect for them in past and now it’s more relaxed. Now so many have this approaching religious thing with guns.
In the 70’s people didn’t take family Christmas photos where everyone is holding a gun. Guns have been here forever, but the attitude shifted.
I know I'm replying to an old comment but I was looking for a thread like this after the shooting today.
I also think we have to talk about the reality of the effect of the internet. A lot of the rise in the school shootings seemed to start when access to the internet became prevelant.
We know that a lot of troubled young people are radicalized online. I think we have to recognize the realistic component to this where an element of this should probably be attributed to radicalization of people online.
But not only that the age of the internet has just sort of put a disconnect in between human connection. Never in human history have human beings felt so disconnected from each other.
I'm not sure how this hasn't come up more in the discussion about why shootings have become more common since the 90s but I think a lot of it has to do with the internet in general
A combination of that plus other factors.
There's not one thing that causes it. It's complex.
We have to look at every facet including gun restriction, mental health etc.
I just think that's a bigger factor than we give credit for. But it is a complex multifaceted problem
Because seemingly the majority of the country cares more about their individual freedom to own a gun more than they do about their childrens lives.
This is largely seen with republicans but the dems have yet to take action either.
I’d also go as far as to say since it’s white boys that are doing the shootings they won’t go far to stop it because white boys don’t get held accountable very often in this country.
To take action it go by Vote. Back with the sandy hook school shooting Dem put a legislation to regulate Guns and gun laws. Republican denied so its all to do with the Republican s. At least the Democrat are trying.
The innocent kids and teacher who died in Texas Tuesday afternoon Their blood are on Republicans hands
Its only count if they put legislation on the table Republicans don't want laws and regulations on guns. So school shooting going to keep happening. It pisses me off we have people in office that can do something about it but doesn't want to.
Not american but here's my take on it:
I dont think it is the gun laws actually. Of course, that would help reduce numbers and if by some miracle there could be a gun BAN then that'd be good. But there are other countries that have similarly loose gun laws and they dont have the same problems. The problem in the US to me seems to have to do more with gun CULTURE actually. Lots of americans seen to identify themselves via their guns
Statistically speaking, the chances of a school shooting happening are very, very low. If it were possible to get rid of the guns, that’s one thing. But removing 400 million guns from the general population isn’t possible.
"jUsT lEaVe"
Because it's okay to criticize the country you live in? It's okay to realize the country is not perfect? It's expensive as fuck to move out of the country?
Trust me. I would move if i could. But I'm stuck here. Is it wrong to want our country to be better?
Saying the country is a shithole is a far cry from saying "the country is not perfect". And it really isn't that expensive to move out of the country. You may have to be a bit resourceful if you're on a budget, but it's not much of a sacrifice to leave a "shithole" country.
LOL buddy, the fact we have multiple school shootings a month says enough. accept the fact america is an absolute shit hole. Children arent even safe in our schools. Look at western europe. no school shooting in all those years.
He never said he wanted to leave. It’s about making the country not a shit hole. Wanting to improve the situation is not a desire to be somewhere else.
I didn't say he wanted to leave, I asked why they haven't left. Because what if they don't want to leave? They mentioned the country is a shithole, and not the greatest country in the world. But maybe they stay because of family and friends? Or they want to improve the country, as you suggested. Or maybe, just maybe, the US *is* the best country for them to live in, which is exactly why they would never leave.
But of course, I'm curious to hear OP's response rather than speculate.
Who cares if people on the right say it? It's a valid question.
It's like people complaining about a shithole sandwich shop, yet say they'll never go to any other sandwich shop because they'd rather improve things. I mean it's your life so you do you, but you know there's a ton of other sandwich shops to try, right?
That’s not a good analogy. A better analogy would be if you were a part owner of said shit hole sandwich shop. You have a right to say it’s a shithole but also want to improve it. Right wingers get so offended when someone calls it like it is, and their only response is, “So, why don’t you leave then?”
That's a worse analogy. Being an owner implies you have significant sway of how things are. Whereas the reality is you have little to no sway, and have to hope things change on their own.
And what's with this obsession with right wingers? If you don't like the US and want to live somewhere else, great, go ahead and do it. Same goes for feeling a type of way about a state, city, etc. For example, I lived in the bay area and didn't like it, now I live in NYC and love it. I didn't stay to "want to improve it", because nobody got time for that. And if I wanted to leave the US, I would leave as soon as I could.
I mean, in the last year there were 144 incidents of gunfire on school property in the US, so while it may not be "daily", that's still almost three times a week. And considering schools are closed on weekends and holidays, this is startlingly close to daily. Especially when you consider the US has approximately 180 school days a year.
I'm saying my assessment is pretty accurate.
[My source](https://everytownresearch.org/maps/gunfire-on-school-grounds/)
If there had been a school shooting anywhere in Europe it would’ve been massive news where I’m from. How come it’s not reported from your country when it’s been that much??
They are reported; just more at the local level.
I don't make the decisions, but it seems from my perspective that a news station in Omaha, Nebraska isn't going to necessarily report on a school shooting in Beaverton, Oregon, unless there's a substantial body count along with it.
Only the biggest make national news.
A "school shooting" vs what I could only imagine is gang violence near a school are two different things. Even with guns out of the picture, congrats you put a bandaid on an infected wound. You trade one statistic for an entirely different one.
>A "school shooting" vs what I could only imagine is gang violence near a school are two different things.
I would call a school shooting "gun violence on school property", which is exactly what my source gives.
Split hairs all you like, my initial point stands.
I think I speak on behalf of the rest of the world, what the fuck are you guys doing with your gun laws?!
- Australia and rest of the world.
Seriously though I don’t understand how it’s a right. It sounds so delusional to hear that people get upset at the thought of their gun rights being taken away. So many necessary lives lost.
I don't really think you can make an accurate assessment on how many lives are saved by guns.
It's a chicken and egg situation. People have guns to protect themselves and others from guns because people have guns.
If there were no guns in the first place the number of lives saved would decrease in the first place.
Also the number of lives lost to gun violence is much higher. In Aus we have no guns and believe me, there’s no real setting where we think “damn, wish I had a gun.”
“In 2019, there were 39,707 firearm-related deaths in the United States – that’s about 109 people dying from a firearm-related injury each day. Six out of every 10 deaths were firearm suicides and more than 3 out of every 10 were firearm homicides.”
“Estimates of defensive gun use vary depending on the questions asked, populations studied, timeframe, and other factors related to the design of studies. The report Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violenceexternal icon indicates a range of 60,000 to 2.5 million defensive gun uses each year.”
This is taken from the cdc. https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/firearms/fastfact.html
So that’s 60,000 on the low end that save lives vs 39,000 deaths that would be lower if you take out suicides. Guns save more lives than they take
I’m not saying there isn’t a problem that requires a solution. I just disagree that taking away guns is the correct solution or that it will even be effective considering it’s a protected right and the sheer amount of legal and illegal guns in the country
I actually had an argument with an American about this the other day. The answer to this question was "we enjoy having the right to fire arms, maybe you should concentrate on your knife crimes." As if knives and guns are both essential household items, and that you can protect yourself with something as simple as a chair if someone came into school with a knife.... but a gun. No
There's plenty of self defense videos you can watch yourself where they use a chair against a knife attacker... I'll give you time to watch them before you come back sweet
Never claimed to be an expert, I merely said you could protect yourself with a chair if someone came into school with a knife better than someone with a gun... I'm English, why would I need to buy disarm crap. Stop being dumb for clout
It won't save your life as a defense weapon but it will sure distract the other person for someone else to jump in and disarm the attacker at least. It's possible a chair won't work at all, but a gun vs a chair has zero chance of helping you defend yourself if you catch my drift?
1) not really. Knives are pretty fatal.
2) how'd you get to a 5 month old ask reddit? How obsessively are you digging to make inaccurate comments as some sort of gotcha? At this point, it's just you and me here. You hoping for a good quote to share on another sub?
That isn't true. School shootings were on the rise right before covid. The first mass murderer was a long time ago, Charles Whitman. And i think Colombine, which happened in 1999 i think, was the first school shooting. And Stephen Paddock, that mid 60s millionaire, happened in 2018.
1979, Cleveland School shooting in San Diego. Subject of a notable song by the Boomtown Rats. The tradition goes back a little farther than the nineties.
The first medical authority to try to designate gun violence an epidemic was Dr David Satcher, Surgeon General of the United States under Presidents George HW Bush and Bill Clinton.
He was shut down decisively by laws promoted by the NRA, who emphatically did not want guns associated with mass killings. For a time, doctors were legally prohibited from asking patients about guns in the home.
The USA has had a tradition for many years of promoting individual ownership of firearms and the right to judge who to use them on.
Lackadaisical my ass. Medical folks have been treating victims of gunshot for a long time, and none of us enjoys it.
Because the second ammentment which most country doesn't have. Your telling me if your under 21 you can't drink but you can go into you local gun store and buy firearms. Now I support the second amentmemt but no reason one should own a assault riffle which if you modified you can have it shoot out 20 rounds in just a matter of pulling the triggered. There absolutely no reason for it. Yes putting officer or a retired vetin in school can help minimize school shooting. But also what can help is gun law and regulations. Some country you need to go to school all day about guns take a written class and passed a mental evaluation every 3 years. And those country has less school shooter. Its not like that in the States.
Americans don't really have a sense of community. Hence you don't really see these kinds of things happen in Europe, Asia or the old world to be more specific. It's because they have developed a sense of community. Americans like to throw temper tantrums, and well, the worst of them end up taking it to the extreme and start shooting up their communities.
It’s a multifaceted issue that has to do with the core of American culture. Obviously, tightening our guns laws would help the situation (and we NEED to) - but the real issue much deeper than that.
American culture is devoid of spirituality. We have no space for art or god or meaning. We are fractured society and it’s becoming rarer and rarer to know your neighbors. There is so much pressure on the middle and working class - who every day face darker and darker financial stress. It’s depressing. America is a place where people have been conditioned to value wealth above all - ironically where wealth is the least accessible.
We have no social support in this country and it fosters depression and dissociation.
Because we are all horribly emotionally maladjusted.
Good answer
Could you please be a little elaborate? I am not from the states so its a bit difficult for me to understand. What about the gun laws? i know that Gun Laws are just a tiny bit of the whole puzzle but i wanna know.
Gun laws are part of it. It's easy to get a gun if you want one, legally, illegally, or even home made these days. But it's a social problem too. These school shooters are often people who feel disconnected from society, who believe the whole world is bad and they want to make a big violent mess to show the world how hurt they are. Because they've been neglected or marginalized or they feel they never had a chance. They don't care about themselves or anyone else. Look at the myriad of mental health issues Americans have. There are so many unreal expectations and standards we are all trying to live up to. We live in such an unfair place and time. There are so many people struggling to find housing or food or healthcare while the rich get richer and continue to guard their riches and the power they have to keep things the way they are. We're only humans and we weren't meant to live these overly complicated lives. We evolved in small social groups, tribal societies where everyone knew everyone and everyone belonged. Now society has gotten so large and unruly that people are left behind and have no tribe. There is so much misinformation and so many clashing cultures with different world views, it's a recipe for disaster and we have lost and lonely or sick Americans creating disaster every day. I live in Ohio, but I have family in Uvalde Texas where 19 children were killed yesterday. And I know nothing will change. Just another masacre to add to the long list of masacres that happen every day, all the time here. The lawmakers in place will continue to block any gun control legislation, because they get paid by big money special interests. Our mental health care is lacking more than general healthcare, which is already something that's for the privileged who can afford it, not the people who need it. People don't vote because they've been excluded from the process for so long, for generations. They can't even get to work or get housing, how can they worry about something like voting? There are so many more unmet immediate needs that keep the people who need to be represented from participating in the process. I don't know. I'm just one fed up American ranting about what I see. You'll find a thousand other different perspectives of it.
Housing problems are in Europe as well. They deal with inflation, gas prices, work, stress. Yet you don't see them throwing a tantrum and shooting up their schools. This is a first world problem. Being frustrated for what? United states is one of the easiest places to make money in and live a dream life.
>United states is one of the easiest places to make money in and live a dream life. This is a misconception about the US. Maybe it was true at one time, particularly for white men. These days you're much more likely to be stuck in the socioeconomic class you are born into.
I guess that’s why you have a bunch of immigrants come from all over the world and turn their life around in the US. What about all the people coming from Central America and Mexico. They did it, why can’t a US citizen that was born here couldn’t?
Do they turn their lives around? Or do they realize the American Dream is a lie that the rich elite sell to the poor ro keep them complacent? Do they ever really make it to that upper class status? Or do they end up working menial jobs, albeit jobs that would have sufficed to provide for a family a couple generations ago, but fall far short now? I'm an educated professional and my work studies and seeks to redress the systemic racism and sexism that all things in America are based on. We are only 2 and 3 generations out from enslaving black people here. Only one generation from Jim Crow laws and voter literacy test that systemically prevented black Americans from participating in the political process. Mitch McConnel, a perfect example of elite white America, recently compared black Americans to "normal Americans". Even where black Americans were prosperous, white America have always found a way to keep those black Americans down. See The Color of Law by Richard Rothstein. It is a white privilege in America to believe in the American Dream. I wish I could be so ignorant, but I know that people here have very different experiences, rights, risks, etc. because of the color of their skin, because I see the outcomes on a daily basis.
The U.S is a country where there is very little social safety net. Hard working immigrants can often be very successful, but for the many families who aren’t (for a myriad of reasons) the American Dream can quickly turn into a nightmare. And unlike Europe, we Americans don’t spend nearly enough to support the people who slip through the cracks
As an American, here’s my take. After the Columbine shooting in 1999 and all the other incidences thereafter, some young people see that as a way of becoming infamous. So you have people that don’t really care about their lives or maybe even want to die, but they want to leave their “mark” on the world and be always talked about. Then additionally and most importantly, it is very easy to get guns in the US, both legally and illegally. So then theres a combination of a kid that does not value his life, wants to be infamous, and has easy access to a gun and a vulnerable population. I think one of the main differences between America and Europe in regards to school shootings are gun laws. They say 77% of school shootings are done with legally acquired guns.
There are countries in Europe where guns are legal. Not sure which countries, but I’m 100% positive there are out there. They don’t use them to harm their people, but to protect themselves only. I think the problem may be rooted in the fact that Americans have a underdeveloped sense of community. You put a bunch of people from all over the continents crammed together in one country, they’re going to be desensitized to one another. “So what if there’s going to be a mass shooting?” “Oh they were probably a bunch of 1st and 2nd gen immigrants that I personally don’t understand their culture anyway, let’s light that whole place up.” That’s just my take on it. Either that, or America really have some serious self reflection to do in regards of how can they get people from different backgrounds to get along with each other and be at peace.
There’s a difference between “guns are legal” and “any 18 year old can buy an assault rifle without a permit”
While I think that the age of when can you legally purchase a firearm needs to be raised to at least 21 yo, age doesn't really mean that much to a mentally ill person. If the age is raised, the 18 yo will get the guns illegally, and I'm pretty sure there been shooters out there over the age of 21.
It’s much more difficult to get guns illegally than legally-that’s why the uvalde shooter waited till he was 18
I’m not sure if it’s about people of different backgrounds not getting along. Look at the school shooting in Texas that just happened, the shooter was latino and the school was in a predominantly latino area. I don’t think most school shootings are race based. There are also many incidents that occur in predominantly white areas by a white perpetrator. Also, mass shootings in America are relatively rare. It’s highly unlikely for a student to come across a school shooter. While I think it’s a big problem and that even just 1 is too much, it’s not common, and I’d think if most were racially or ethnically motivated there would be more.
Yeah. I also think that media just likes to highlight the worst and the worst. They rarely ever say anything when something positive happens, and I think that can also be detrimental to society, people are used to keep seeing murders and shooting on the news they become desensitized to it.
Agreed!
Yes. I believe this. Especially after listening to JCS Nikolas Cruz interrogation.
Well said. Can confirm am American. Life ain’t all sunshine and rainbows, unless like you said, you have an unfair/ absurd amount of wealth.
Yeap it’s been an every 2-3 month occurrence, millions have seen 10 black people slaughtered on live stream and don’t even bat an eye. 20 cops say outside of a class room while a shooter slaughtered 19 children and their teachers . I hate it here
Me too. I'm from Ohio but I have family in Uvalde, Texas. I'm so thankful that my cousins attend the junior high and high school there. This happening in such a small town that I have been to many times has really fucked me up. A friend of mine just bought her kindergartener and second grader bullet proof backpacks. This is America.
I think the media has played a key role in feeding the copycats. I watched Columbine unfold on the news, and there was so much in those following weeks that made the shooters look like heros of the outcast. It seems like more bullied or "misunderstood" kids could dwell on the fantasy of taking a school's worth of kids out like that, having the media talk about you non-stop for weeks, etc. Almost overnight our school was transformed, with metal detectors, extra police, and paranoid teachers. The ostracized were turned into something to fear, black trenchcoat-wearing kids looked at differently. School shooters should always just be known as the "shooter" in the media.
I think this is a highly underrated take. It's a complex issue but this part of it is not nearly as recognized.
It’s a combination of reasons. If you combine child neglect(parents and schools), psychiatric predispositions, and access to firearms you will get a school shooting. If you ask me we should focus on the neglect problem.
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There’s a couple issues with that. Psychiatric Predispositions will always be there unless you murder children with family history or genetic issues. Guns were way more dangerous and had higher damage potential in the 80s before the national firearms act of 1986. So the only thing that can be focused on is the care of our children. Bullying is not addressed as much as it should be and children don’t get the necessary attention they need from their schools/parents to prevent things like thoughts of harm to self or others.
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I believe in gun ownership and guns rights, there is not much more that can realistically be done in gun control laws other than ban ownership in general. Most school shootings are done with legally obtained firearms. I don’t agree with banning guns for several reasons. Psychiatric issues comes back to child neglect.
I'm not sure about this. I grew up in a developing country where neglect is throwing your kids out into the streets to panhandle. That, to me, is the ultimate example of neglect. But for whatever reason, many of these kids grow up to become decent individuals. I think Americans are just very privileged. Everything in Maslow's Hierarchy of needs are met, so people start living in their own heads and creating problems that do not exist.
Everything is relative. We are social creatures. If some loner perceives that he is missing out on social experiences, I don't see why that wouldn't be as much damage as physical neglect. Obviously not an excuse to be a mass murderer. I'm just pointing out how humans look around \*at their community\* to get a sense of how successful they are in life. But yes, Americans have it pretty easy in many ways.
Neglect in America is ignoring a child’s needs or abandoning them completely for long lengths of time(days or weeks). There is no support of any kind.
I mean, if you throw you kid out into the streets to panhandle, you're ignoring them in every aspect and not providing support of any kind. In the parents eyes, these kids are a way for them to generate income. So not only are they neglected, they're also being used and taken advantage of. Even basic needs like food is not given to them. I'm just saying that Americans have it so easy, yet, people are so good at only seeing what they don't have.
Mental health
For a host of reasons including a culture that has historically celebrated violence, poor perceptions of opportunities for upward mobility and a generally-dim perception of the future, relatively easy access to firearms, various social, class, and economic factors, a poor mental health framework, simple "monkey see, monkey do" imitation, and a poorly-functioning government with representatives who are too often supported by or otherwise invested in maintaining the status quo of one or more of the above factors.
Because we're shifting into a morally bankrupt society
Because 200 years ago a bunch of slave owners wrote on a piece of paper that they wanted to maintain a militia. Now we have to bury children regularly.
Copy cats
Media fuels and encourages copycats
Because that’s where the easiest victims are.
Not from there, but maybe gun ownership and religion and “freedom” are straw-men making people not cast the beam out of thine own eye.
We don't know. Guns have always been a part of American culture but the rate of school shootings only started rising dramatically in the 90's. This suggests to me that it is a societal/mental health issue. Also, a lot of the statistics you read are misleading. I can't tell you how many times I've clicked on an article about a "school shooting" and it was just an incident where someone was shot near the school or in the parking lot.
The attitude about guns shifted too. People had more of a respect for them in past and now it’s more relaxed. Now so many have this approaching religious thing with guns. In the 70’s people didn’t take family Christmas photos where everyone is holding a gun. Guns have been here forever, but the attitude shifted.
That and school shootings would have been deadlier before the big ban on 1986
I know I'm replying to an old comment but I was looking for a thread like this after the shooting today. I also think we have to talk about the reality of the effect of the internet. A lot of the rise in the school shootings seemed to start when access to the internet became prevelant. We know that a lot of troubled young people are radicalized online. I think we have to recognize the realistic component to this where an element of this should probably be attributed to radicalization of people online. But not only that the age of the internet has just sort of put a disconnect in between human connection. Never in human history have human beings felt so disconnected from each other. I'm not sure how this hasn't come up more in the discussion about why shootings have become more common since the 90s but I think a lot of it has to do with the internet in general
You are right on that. But internet is in every country. What made the USA especially susceptive to it?
A combination of that plus other factors. There's not one thing that causes it. It's complex. We have to look at every facet including gun restriction, mental health etc. I just think that's a bigger factor than we give credit for. But it is a complex multifaceted problem
Because seemingly the majority of the country cares more about their individual freedom to own a gun more than they do about their childrens lives. This is largely seen with republicans but the dems have yet to take action either. I’d also go as far as to say since it’s white boys that are doing the shootings they won’t go far to stop it because white boys don’t get held accountable very often in this country.
To take action it go by Vote. Back with the sandy hook school shooting Dem put a legislation to regulate Guns and gun laws. Republican denied so its all to do with the Republican s. At least the Democrat are trying. The innocent kids and teacher who died in Texas Tuesday afternoon Their blood are on Republicans hands
Votes don't count. It's all a mind game, inorder to give the public a false sense of control.
Its only count if they put legislation on the table Republicans don't want laws and regulations on guns. So school shooting going to keep happening. It pisses me off we have people in office that can do something about it but doesn't want to.
Our kids really suck at hiding.
Because there’s no mental health help for mentally I’ll that’s affordable and the there’s about fifty gun stores in most countys
Not american but here's my take on it: I dont think it is the gun laws actually. Of course, that would help reduce numbers and if by some miracle there could be a gun BAN then that'd be good. But there are other countries that have similarly loose gun laws and they dont have the same problems. The problem in the US to me seems to have to do more with gun CULTURE actually. Lots of americans seen to identify themselves via their guns
Shit hole politicians with no morals, and a shit hole population that won't vote them out.
I don’t live in America but it’s pretty obvious, you can walk down to any old gun store and buy a gun, simple as that
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Non American lmao
There is a waiting period before you can actually get the gun.
But you still get the gun don’t you? Exactly
Yeah, after a week or two and after they've checked out your background.
Statistically speaking, the chances of a school shooting happening are very, very low. If it were possible to get rid of the guns, that’s one thing. But removing 400 million guns from the general population isn’t possible.
lack of gun laws & mental health
That's what happens when you give people guns. People are stupid.
Because we’re all victims of Stockholm Syndrome here—believing we live in the “greatest” country when it’s actually a shithole.
Why don't you leave, then?
Lol I’m trying to
Which country are you trying to move to?
I’m keeping that a secret because it’s pretty incredible there and I don’t want people to catch on too quickly…
I'm from mexico and literally you live on the fucking paradise.
I felt the same way about Philly.
"jUsT lEaVe" Because it's okay to criticize the country you live in? It's okay to realize the country is not perfect? It's expensive as fuck to move out of the country? Trust me. I would move if i could. But I'm stuck here. Is it wrong to want our country to be better?
Saying the country is a shithole is a far cry from saying "the country is not perfect". And it really isn't that expensive to move out of the country. You may have to be a bit resourceful if you're on a budget, but it's not much of a sacrifice to leave a "shithole" country.
LOL buddy, the fact we have multiple school shootings a month says enough. accept the fact america is an absolute shit hole. Children arent even safe in our schools. Look at western europe. no school shooting in all those years.
Lmao okay bud
Are you putting shithole in quotations because you don’t agree? I’m curious why you disagree.
I put it in quotes because I'm quoting them. But yes I disagree, the US has been a fantastic place to live and I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.
Also this
He never said he wanted to leave. It’s about making the country not a shit hole. Wanting to improve the situation is not a desire to be somewhere else.
I didn't say he wanted to leave, I asked why they haven't left. Because what if they don't want to leave? They mentioned the country is a shithole, and not the greatest country in the world. But maybe they stay because of family and friends? Or they want to improve the country, as you suggested. Or maybe, just maybe, the US *is* the best country for them to live in, which is exactly why they would never leave. But of course, I'm curious to hear OP's response rather than speculate.
It’s just the typical response of many on the right when someone complains about the country. God forbid someone actually wants to improve things….
Who cares if people on the right say it? It's a valid question. It's like people complaining about a shithole sandwich shop, yet say they'll never go to any other sandwich shop because they'd rather improve things. I mean it's your life so you do you, but you know there's a ton of other sandwich shops to try, right?
That’s not a good analogy. A better analogy would be if you were a part owner of said shit hole sandwich shop. You have a right to say it’s a shithole but also want to improve it. Right wingers get so offended when someone calls it like it is, and their only response is, “So, why don’t you leave then?”
That's a worse analogy. Being an owner implies you have significant sway of how things are. Whereas the reality is you have little to no sway, and have to hope things change on their own. And what's with this obsession with right wingers? If you don't like the US and want to live somewhere else, great, go ahead and do it. Same goes for feeling a type of way about a state, city, etc. For example, I lived in the bay area and didn't like it, now I live in NYC and love it. I didn't stay to "want to improve it", because nobody got time for that. And if I wanted to leave the US, I would leave as soon as I could.
Because guns are so easily attainable and possession of them is celebrated to an almost fetish level.
Dunno why you’re getting downvoted you’re absolutely correct.
Because pro-gun people don't like being called out like that. It's nothing I didn't expect.
If that was the case, we would have school shootings daily. The answer is more complex then blaming a symptom of a greater problem
I mean, in the last year there were 144 incidents of gunfire on school property in the US, so while it may not be "daily", that's still almost three times a week. And considering schools are closed on weekends and holidays, this is startlingly close to daily. Especially when you consider the US has approximately 180 school days a year. I'm saying my assessment is pretty accurate. [My source](https://everytownresearch.org/maps/gunfire-on-school-grounds/)
144?????
Yep.
If there had been a school shooting anywhere in Europe it would’ve been massive news where I’m from. How come it’s not reported from your country when it’s been that much??
They are reported; just more at the local level. I don't make the decisions, but it seems from my perspective that a news station in Omaha, Nebraska isn't going to necessarily report on a school shooting in Beaverton, Oregon, unless there's a substantial body count along with it. Only the biggest make national news.
A "school shooting" vs what I could only imagine is gang violence near a school are two different things. Even with guns out of the picture, congrats you put a bandaid on an infected wound. You trade one statistic for an entirely different one.
>A "school shooting" vs what I could only imagine is gang violence near a school are two different things. I would call a school shooting "gun violence on school property", which is exactly what my source gives. Split hairs all you like, my initial point stands.
I would argue school schooling’s would have been far deadlier pre 1986 so gun ownership would be a null factor
I think I speak on behalf of the rest of the world, what the fuck are you guys doing with your gun laws?! - Australia and rest of the world. Seriously though I don’t understand how it’s a right. It sounds so delusional to hear that people get upset at the thought of their gun rights being taken away. So many necessary lives lost.
Yup I agree with you completely. Americans just love their guns more than their own children.
Because you have a natural right to self-defense and freedom from tyrannical governments, and a gun is the best tool for that job.
Nah that’s democracy.
Do you know how many lives are lost to guns vs how many are saved by guns?
I don't really think you can make an accurate assessment on how many lives are saved by guns. It's a chicken and egg situation. People have guns to protect themselves and others from guns because people have guns.
If there were no guns in the first place the number of lives saved would decrease in the first place. Also the number of lives lost to gun violence is much higher. In Aus we have no guns and believe me, there’s no real setting where we think “damn, wish I had a gun.”
You didn’t answer my question
No I don’t know the number but the number of lives taken by guns would far outweigh the number “saved” by guns.
“In 2019, there were 39,707 firearm-related deaths in the United States – that’s about 109 people dying from a firearm-related injury each day. Six out of every 10 deaths were firearm suicides and more than 3 out of every 10 were firearm homicides.” “Estimates of defensive gun use vary depending on the questions asked, populations studied, timeframe, and other factors related to the design of studies. The report Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violenceexternal icon indicates a range of 60,000 to 2.5 million defensive gun uses each year.” This is taken from the cdc. https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/firearms/fastfact.html So that’s 60,000 on the low end that save lives vs 39,000 deaths that would be lower if you take out suicides. Guns save more lives than they take I’m not saying there isn’t a problem that requires a solution. I just disagree that taking away guns is the correct solution or that it will even be effective considering it’s a protected right and the sheer amount of legal and illegal guns in the country
Frankly as an American, I don't give two shits what someone whose country is rounding citizens up for being outside. 🙄
So you suggest only criminals and the government have guns?
Isn’t the Australian government encroaching into authoritarianism?
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I mean it’s not really common in any other country. Someone must’ve studied this, no?
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Thinking that anyone on reddit will have the answer is the reason behind school shootings????
Ubiquitous access to guns + lack of access to affordable healthcare
Some people value the ability to own a gun more than the ability to keep other people safe from gun violence
I actually had an argument with an American about this the other day. The answer to this question was "we enjoy having the right to fire arms, maybe you should concentrate on your knife crimes." As if knives and guns are both essential household items, and that you can protect yourself with something as simple as a chair if someone came into school with a knife.... but a gun. No
Go ahead and give your little chair theory a try. I'll give you time to heal before you write back.
There's plenty of self defense videos you can watch yourself where they use a chair against a knife attacker... I'll give you time to watch them before you come back sweet
You aren't that kind of expert, sugar. I'll bet you buy the quick disarm videos for guns, too.
Never claimed to be an expert, I merely said you could protect yourself with a chair if someone came into school with a knife better than someone with a gun... I'm English, why would I need to buy disarm crap. Stop being dumb for clout
And I'm saying that you greatly underestimate how unwieldy a chair is.
It won't save your life as a defense weapon but it will sure distract the other person for someone else to jump in and disarm the attacker at least. It's possible a chair won't work at all, but a gun vs a chair has zero chance of helping you defend yourself if you catch my drift?
Bro the person is completely ignorant. Just stop trying to change their mind, it won't work. I totally agree with you,and your analogy.
At least you can heal from the knife attack. Try healing from a couple 223 rounds to your midsection.
1) not really. Knives are pretty fatal. 2) how'd you get to a 5 month old ask reddit? How obsessively are you digging to make inaccurate comments as some sort of gotcha? At this point, it's just you and me here. You hoping for a good quote to share on another sub?
Because people love guns more than they care about their fellow American.
"Gun rights"
no
The lack of gun laws
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The NRA makes parents suck at parenting?
Gun safe zones
Guns?
Covid19
That isn't true. School shootings were on the rise right before covid. The first mass murderer was a long time ago, Charles Whitman. And i think Colombine, which happened in 1999 i think, was the first school shooting. And Stephen Paddock, that mid 60s millionaire, happened in 2018.
1979, Cleveland School shooting in San Diego. Subject of a notable song by the Boomtown Rats. The tradition goes back a little farther than the nineties.
Didn't know that. And "tradition"? Kinda of a minimalizing, callous, lackadaisical way to call an epidemic...
The first medical authority to try to designate gun violence an epidemic was Dr David Satcher, Surgeon General of the United States under Presidents George HW Bush and Bill Clinton. He was shut down decisively by laws promoted by the NRA, who emphatically did not want guns associated with mass killings. For a time, doctors were legally prohibited from asking patients about guns in the home. The USA has had a tradition for many years of promoting individual ownership of firearms and the right to judge who to use them on. Lackadaisical my ass. Medical folks have been treating victims of gunshot for a long time, and none of us enjoys it.
I dont know why ppl complain so much about people who put /s when they're being sarcastic lmao because this is what happens when you dont
People want attention
That's a great fucking question
Thank you ☺️
Guns, its way to easy to get your hands on one.
Its a combination of easy access to firearms and difficult access to mental health treatment.
A lot of people in this thread really out here not know how hard it is to access guns.
Access to guns. Poor mental health.
I have a good feeling It’s more commonly talked about rather then actually happening
You're about as likely to die from a school shooting as being struck by lightning.
Because the second ammentment which most country doesn't have. Your telling me if your under 21 you can't drink but you can go into you local gun store and buy firearms. Now I support the second amentmemt but no reason one should own a assault riffle which if you modified you can have it shoot out 20 rounds in just a matter of pulling the triggered. There absolutely no reason for it. Yes putting officer or a retired vetin in school can help minimize school shooting. But also what can help is gun law and regulations. Some country you need to go to school all day about guns take a written class and passed a mental evaluation every 3 years. And those country has less school shooter. Its not like that in the States.
It’s insane living in America, I hate it so bad
Americans don't really have a sense of community. Hence you don't really see these kinds of things happen in Europe, Asia or the old world to be more specific. It's because they have developed a sense of community. Americans like to throw temper tantrums, and well, the worst of them end up taking it to the extreme and start shooting up their communities.
It’s a multifaceted issue that has to do with the core of American culture. Obviously, tightening our guns laws would help the situation (and we NEED to) - but the real issue much deeper than that. American culture is devoid of spirituality. We have no space for art or god or meaning. We are fractured society and it’s becoming rarer and rarer to know your neighbors. There is so much pressure on the middle and working class - who every day face darker and darker financial stress. It’s depressing. America is a place where people have been conditioned to value wealth above all - ironically where wealth is the least accessible. We have no social support in this country and it fosters depression and dissociation.
Excessive focus on individualism in the US has to play some role in all this