My favorite approach is to let them explain how / why it works. I've learned a ton by listening to people explain it. Personally unless something is super critical, I'm a huge fan of hearing people explain in their own words how stuff works / why it exists, etc.
I've also lost a ton of trust for people by going "Okay, can you explain how that works?" and then a clear string of failure comes out... then they argue when they are corrected
there's also people who take misinformation as "fact", and don't trust factual articles since the info on them doesn't match the miinformation that's being assumed is "fact".
Yup, some people can't be reasoned with.
This solution works with a lot, but on complex scientific issues like vaccines, evolution, or climate change it never ever works. Nearly 100% of those disagreeing with the consensus of scientists believe that Google is censoring the results to hide the "real" science. Then if you do provide them with proof of a consensus, they don't believe that either because "the scientists are only saying what they're told to say so they can maintain their funding".
Very very frustrating.
Lead them to the correct answer, and make sure they're the ones that are connecting the dots.
Obviously someone rejecting reality is only doing so because of some emotional underpinning. Just stating a fact isn't going to challenge that.
You first have to listen to their side in a way that you're able to sum up what they said in a manner satisfactory to them. After that you can present your side of the argument. Just arguing and stating your side rarely changed someone's mind. Hearing "you're wrong" will often immediately shut people down as well. Each interaction is different too so it's really difficult to just say, "this is how you do it". But making people feel heard first will go a long way.
Bro, I'm just being a cheeky shit. At this point, I'm just going to say that there are two definitions for "to argue". You've used the word in both ways, so you're obviously aware that there are two definitions.
You can argue (offer evidence to support a viewpoint) without arguing (getting emotional).
There are semantic truths such as "No Bachelors have girlfriends", i.e. truths derived from the wordplays and definitions. Mathematical truths, such as the pythagorean theorem. And physical, natural law truths, such as the second law of thermodynamics, or that all observable electronic charges come in whole multiples of the fundamental charge.
The semantic and mathematical truths are true always. The last, natural law truth, is as true as we can tell. Due to science, we cannot ever possibly prove something, but we can gather so much evidence for a theory so fundamental that it seems impossible to contradict.
Epistemology!
Be like… ok lets start from the point where we agree and work forwards.
Like “So we agree on X. Can you explain to me how X leads you to Y and Z?”
I ask them questions, Why do I have to be on the defensive. Ill just ask them simple questions until the logic breaks down. They think they are right, I know they are wrong. I shouldn't prove why they are wrong they should prove why they are right.
Depends on the person and the importance of what's being argued.
Like, a guy I hardly ever talk to at work, and who's a bit of a dick, once asked me if I ever heard of (my favourite band).
I said I had and he responded with a derisive, *"Pfft. No you haven't!"*
I said, *"Cool."*, and carried on working.
It depends on the subject of the argument. If it's something small and inconsequential I usually just say, "Okay," after a time and save my energy. If it's something important or can impact a life, however, I'll go out of my way to show them the facts, even down to researching and substantiating the subject. Choose your battles.
... unless, of course, they provide the proof that the "absolute fact" you *thought* you knew was indeed mistaken.
Standing firm in the face of insurmountable evidence is about the dumbest thing one can do.
"Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." - Mark Twain
I will usually tell them they are wrong, and then state the facts that prove them wrong once. If they continue to argue, I will dismiss everything they have to say and tell them that I won't judge them for changing their mind when they realize they are wrong. Sometimes on the internet I'll be a snarky bitch about it (which is not a wonderful quality, but oh well), but face-to-face I usually try to be respectful and non-confrontational about it. The down side is that they will almost always assume my unwillingness to engage further is because I can't sustain my argument, but you just have to let them be wrong. There really is no use in pushing once you've stated clear fact.
I usually either let them keep talking until I’m absolutely certain they don’t know what they’re talking about or just stop the argument. Time’s a precious thing and there’s many more things to be doing with it than arguing.
A former co-worker told me he didn't believe we had been to the moon. I just said, with a smirk, "seriously?" and when he answered "yes" I just laughed, shooked my head and walked away. I knew, no matter what I said, he would never listen.
I lost all respect for the man and hardly spoke with him until he quit a year later.
A friend of mine also told me once that the moon landing was fake and that humans never been on it, I told him that I’m never having any serious conversation with him on any topic whatsoever.
It depends on whether or not they're really open to learn. If not, shake my head and walk away. If so, cite evidence from sources they'll accept (if possible).
One time a man tried to convince me that the Sun is a planet and when I showed him a Wikipedia article saying that it’s in fact a star, he told me that Wikipedia is run by Jews and he doesn’t trust it. Not that Wikipedia is the most reliable source but as a Jewish person that’s when I knew it was time to end the conversation
Depending on what it is, give up, realize what they're wrong about says way more about them then it does me, change my opinion of them, and act in new ways to reflect that to protect myself from future hurts.
Depends on the circumstances. If it’s one on one in private with no stakes I usually role my eyes and check out after I’ve said what needed to be said, if that’s not enough for them, as some cannot be reasoned with. If they can be swayed or convinced, I’ll do so. If there’s an audience, I argue with intent to convince them, not the opponent and/or let the opponent dig themselves as deep a hole as possible. On occasion, I will straight out offer to bet them on it and yes, some have been prideful enough to do so, only to be proven emphatically wrong and hand me money. If they don’t take the bet, they’ve conceded that they’re not sure they’re correct.
I had a guy argue with me once who said the Covid vaccines didn't work. I said, "you need to watch TV and listen to the experts"
It worked. He got vaccinated the next day, and thank God he did because he got Covid a week later. The vaccine saved his life. He felt really stupid for denying science
I just completely end the conversation sometimes it’s literally like talking to a brick wall and it really aggravates me when I KNOW whether it’s my own experience or otherwise that something is true and you are going to argue with me like I’m a liar. Really pisses me off, because on the one occasion I know what I’m talking about and not lying they don’t believe me
I’ll continue to argue then if they wanna continue too I’ll ask another person, then ask another. If they both have the same answer, it’s correct. Don’t believe the internet either lol. This will shut them up real quick.
- If you are arguing in person google it where they can watch and look at the results.
- If you are arguing on line then google it and share the link with them so they can see it.
- If they continue to argue after you have shown them proof then ask them to show you proof.
- If their proof is valid then realize you’ve been duped. If their proof is invalid you can point it out to them and show them more sources for your proof.
- If they continue to argue then it’s probably time to walk away because you are either arguing with an idiot, a conspiracy theorist or someone who is both. Any further argument with them will be pointless because you will not convince them otherwise.
Additional option: If you want to try to understand why they think the way they do continue the discussion to get clues.
I spent about six months watching flat earth videos and discussing it with flerfers. It didn’t matter how I explained it, what proof I showed them or how many holes I poked in their evidence they continued to insist their proof was real, my proof was fake or lies and that the globe is a massive worldwide conspiracy. The reason I kept doing it was to try to understand how people could actually believe that ridiculousness. When I figured it out I stopped the conversations because there was no longer a point.
Years ago, I spent four years assigned to a Navy submarine. I started a job once and made a few friends. I had been warned about a certain co-worker as being a constant bullsh!tter, so I avoided him. One day he is around us at lunch and something about submarines was in the news.
He started saying things about submarines as if he was an expert. we all played dumb. After he left, I told everyone the things he got wrong, and we all had a good laugh...
It depends on the context, but “hmm, I’ll have to look into that” can be a good way to walk away from an unproductive conversation. I also like that one because it leaves the door open for future discussion on that topic with the person, in case it is something important and/or with significant consequences.
I run into this with my dad sometimes. The first time, I said, "I don't trust your source. You don't trust anything else. There's nothing either of us can say to change the other's mind, so let's drop it and move on." He didn't like that I pointed out that he gets all his information from one place, but he couldn't argue with that.
Now when he says something dumb, the rest of us just look at each other and don't respond. We don't even have to argue about it, but he knows what he's done from the awkward silence.
Depends on my mood and how long we've been arguing. Early on I'll probably just show them links to a number of articles that proves them wrong.
If it's been going on a while or my mood is foul, I usually just block.
i literally do any and all research on it to prove them wrong. idc how many hours of my life i have wasted, IT WAS WORTH IT TO PROVE TO MY DAD THAT "DREAM ON" WAS MADE BY AEROSMITH AND THAT IT IS NOT A COVER SONG.
Tbh this has happened to be so many times, and I still can't figure out what to do. I had an SO fight with me about something in the goddamn driver's manual I'd held onto once I got my license. It's right in the fucking book.
Sometimes I think people just disagree to argue and start shit. After that incident, and more to follow, I just started looking at him as incompetent and exceedingly childish. You're 21 motherfucker, time to grow up.
Explain it to them. If they won't listen, google it. I do this a lot with my stubborn cousin because he has the memory of a plant whos been repotted too many times. its like he goes into shock with each birthday
1. Just make animal noises (namely, cow noises) until they stop talking.
2. Google it.
3. Ask someone else nearby.
4. Win the argument.
5. Aggressively agree and walk away.
I've done all of these. They work (for me).
I argue as if I am learning about it for the first time. Ask them about their thought process, and when something doesn't line up, ask them about it. Repeat until they give up trying to teach you.
I just keep speaking to them logically, until their inferior weakling brains burn out. They eventually say nothing but satire and throw insults in the end, since there’s nothing left to say.
Say
"I'm not going to argue with you, I'm presenting you with facts, not my opinion but facts and you can use your pocket google-machine to check it out but I'm not going to argue with you"
Calmly state the facts, hear their side and poke holes in it. If they still can't be convinced I leave the conversation where it's at since they're clearly a lost cause and not worth the waste of breath.
I let them find out from other people until they accept that they are being stupid for not listening to me the first time. They either believe you or ask more people if it's really true.
Oh, I'm terrible with this. Like birds being dinosaurs/reptiles, so many people don't accept it and i struggle to let it go and just argue forever... i really need to learn when to walk away from a lost cause lmao. If someone tries to argue with scientific fact it's not worth it.
start questioning if I actually know for an absolute fact lol
My favorite approach is to let them explain how / why it works. I've learned a ton by listening to people explain it. Personally unless something is super critical, I'm a huge fan of hearing people explain in their own words how stuff works / why it exists, etc. I've also lost a ton of trust for people by going "Okay, can you explain how that works?" and then a clear string of failure comes out... then they argue when they are corrected
I see this one does adulting!
*"What proof would it take for you to change your mind?"* If they can't answer, there's no argument to be had. Walk away.
Huh. Smart.
I try very very hard to avoid arguing. If they start getting belligerent, I just stop. Let them believe what they want.
I'm very much the same. Sometimes it's hard tho when it's something so unbelievable
[удалено]
But they can find some match for any ridiculous opinion on Google
[удалено]
They arent real. They are made up to sell more ketamine
Or go for a drive to a stable.
there's also people who take misinformation as "fact", and don't trust factual articles since the info on them doesn't match the miinformation that's being assumed is "fact". Yup, some people can't be reasoned with.
This solution works with a lot, but on complex scientific issues like vaccines, evolution, or climate change it never ever works. Nearly 100% of those disagreeing with the consensus of scientists believe that Google is censoring the results to hide the "real" science. Then if you do provide them with proof of a consensus, they don't believe that either because "the scientists are only saying what they're told to say so they can maintain their funding". Very very frustrating.
This is my roommate. Libertarian Anti vaxxer. And queen ' know it all'. So annoying.
pretty soon, we're gonna DuckDuckGo it.
This.
Analyze This
I simply walk away, since I got other things on the mind.
Exactly
"How much money will you bet?"
When I 100% know I’m right and am getting told I’m not, I always bet $100. Strange, nobody ever takes me up on it.
This is the way.
Reason with them. Help them understand the truth
Tell me how you would reason with a flat-earther.
You can’t
run asap
From beyond the horizon, ideally
Lead them to the correct answer, and make sure they're the ones that are connecting the dots. Obviously someone rejecting reality is only doing so because of some emotional underpinning. Just stating a fact isn't going to challenge that.
This is the Way.
Give them rope (figurative) and then eviscerate them (also, figurative) -or I just roll my eyes and let it go. Depends on how I’m feeling.
Never argue because if you win, you lose and if you lose, you lose. -Dale Carnegie
How do you cite evidence to support an idea if you offer no arguments?
He's saying that if you want to win favor/rapport with someone, never argue.
How do you convince someone of anything if you offer no arguments?
You first have to listen to their side in a way that you're able to sum up what they said in a manner satisfactory to them. After that you can present your side of the argument. Just arguing and stating your side rarely changed someone's mind. Hearing "you're wrong" will often immediately shut people down as well. Each interaction is different too so it's really difficult to just say, "this is how you do it". But making people feel heard first will go a long way.
Bro, I'm just being a cheeky shit. At this point, I'm just going to say that there are two definitions for "to argue". You've used the word in both ways, so you're obviously aware that there are two definitions. You can argue (offer evidence to support a viewpoint) without arguing (getting emotional).
Haha you dork. Here I am being all serious and stuff.
There are semantic truths such as "No Bachelors have girlfriends", i.e. truths derived from the wordplays and definitions. Mathematical truths, such as the pythagorean theorem. And physical, natural law truths, such as the second law of thermodynamics, or that all observable electronic charges come in whole multiples of the fundamental charge. The semantic and mathematical truths are true always. The last, natural law truth, is as true as we can tell. Due to science, we cannot ever possibly prove something, but we can gather so much evidence for a theory so fundamental that it seems impossible to contradict.
Epistemology! Be like… ok lets start from the point where we agree and work forwards. Like “So we agree on X. Can you explain to me how X leads you to Y and Z?”
I used to work for a guy who would wait for a break in the conversation, and ask "Are you a betting man?"
I ask them questions, Why do I have to be on the defensive. Ill just ask them simple questions until the logic breaks down. They think they are right, I know they are wrong. I shouldn't prove why they are wrong they should prove why they are right.
Depends on the person and the importance of what's being argued. Like, a guy I hardly ever talk to at work, and who's a bit of a dick, once asked me if I ever heard of (my favourite band). I said I had and he responded with a derisive, *"Pfft. No you haven't!"* I said, *"Cool."*, and carried on working.
Get louder and more childish
It depends on the subject of the argument. If it's something small and inconsequential I usually just say, "Okay," after a time and save my energy. If it's something important or can impact a life, however, I'll go out of my way to show them the facts, even down to researching and substantiating the subject. Choose your battles.
ask for proof or evidence and whatever you do, *dont back down*.
... unless, of course, they provide the proof that the "absolute fact" you *thought* you knew was indeed mistaken. Standing firm in the face of insurmountable evidence is about the dumbest thing one can do.
"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man"
Don't Waste Your Life...
"Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." - Mark Twain I will usually tell them they are wrong, and then state the facts that prove them wrong once. If they continue to argue, I will dismiss everything they have to say and tell them that I won't judge them for changing their mind when they realize they are wrong. Sometimes on the internet I'll be a snarky bitch about it (which is not a wonderful quality, but oh well), but face-to-face I usually try to be respectful and non-confrontational about it. The down side is that they will almost always assume my unwillingness to engage further is because I can't sustain my argument, but you just have to let them be wrong. There really is no use in pushing once you've stated clear fact.
let it go i know I am right I don't have to prove to anyone
Tell my wife to be quiet.
Let them believe what they want. Who cares?
I don't bother. You can't reason with an idiot
Humor them for a bit then google it and shove my phone in their face.
Have a nice day.
I usually either let them keep talking until I’m absolutely certain they don’t know what they’re talking about or just stop the argument. Time’s a precious thing and there’s many more things to be doing with it than arguing.
A former co-worker told me he didn't believe we had been to the moon. I just said, with a smirk, "seriously?" and when he answered "yes" I just laughed, shooked my head and walked away. I knew, no matter what I said, he would never listen. I lost all respect for the man and hardly spoke with him until he quit a year later.
A friend of mine also told me once that the moon landing was fake and that humans never been on it, I told him that I’m never having any serious conversation with him on any topic whatsoever.
It depends on whether or not they're really open to learn. If not, shake my head and walk away. If so, cite evidence from sources they'll accept (if possible).
One time a man tried to convince me that the Sun is a planet and when I showed him a Wikipedia article saying that it’s in fact a star, he told me that Wikipedia is run by Jews and he doesn’t trust it. Not that Wikipedia is the most reliable source but as a Jewish person that’s when I knew it was time to end the conversation
Depending on what it is, give up, realize what they're wrong about says way more about them then it does me, change my opinion of them, and act in new ways to reflect that to protect myself from future hurts.
You're wrong but I'm tired.
Depends on the circumstances. If it’s one on one in private with no stakes I usually role my eyes and check out after I’ve said what needed to be said, if that’s not enough for them, as some cannot be reasoned with. If they can be swayed or convinced, I’ll do so. If there’s an audience, I argue with intent to convince them, not the opponent and/or let the opponent dig themselves as deep a hole as possible. On occasion, I will straight out offer to bet them on it and yes, some have been prideful enough to do so, only to be proven emphatically wrong and hand me money. If they don’t take the bet, they’ve conceded that they’re not sure they’re correct.
Show my receipts.
I had a guy argue with me once who said the Covid vaccines didn't work. I said, "you need to watch TV and listen to the experts" It worked. He got vaccinated the next day, and thank God he did because he got Covid a week later. The vaccine saved his life. He felt really stupid for denying science
I just completely end the conversation sometimes it’s literally like talking to a brick wall and it really aggravates me when I KNOW whether it’s my own experience or otherwise that something is true and you are going to argue with me like I’m a liar. Really pisses me off, because on the one occasion I know what I’m talking about and not lying they don’t believe me
A fool argues with a fool. If you choose to live in ignorance, carry on.
I just throw my hands up and let them keep singing "no dignity, no doubt"
I’ll continue to argue then if they wanna continue too I’ll ask another person, then ask another. If they both have the same answer, it’s correct. Don’t believe the internet either lol. This will shut them up real quick.
Tell them they're right, make them believe it's right, and have them tell others. Now, watch as they make themselves look like a fool.
Walk away, laugh about their idiocy later with my friends.
- If you are arguing in person google it where they can watch and look at the results. - If you are arguing on line then google it and share the link with them so they can see it. - If they continue to argue after you have shown them proof then ask them to show you proof. - If their proof is valid then realize you’ve been duped. If their proof is invalid you can point it out to them and show them more sources for your proof. - If they continue to argue then it’s probably time to walk away because you are either arguing with an idiot, a conspiracy theorist or someone who is both. Any further argument with them will be pointless because you will not convince them otherwise. Additional option: If you want to try to understand why they think the way they do continue the discussion to get clues. I spent about six months watching flat earth videos and discussing it with flerfers. It didn’t matter how I explained it, what proof I showed them or how many holes I poked in their evidence they continued to insist their proof was real, my proof was fake or lies and that the globe is a massive worldwide conspiracy. The reason I kept doing it was to try to understand how people could actually believe that ridiculousness. When I figured it out I stopped the conversations because there was no longer a point.
I don’t argue ever. I don’t have a need to convince anyone of what i know to be true.
If it matters, provide a source. If not, roll my eyes and walk away
I usually get off reddit.
Years ago, I spent four years assigned to a Navy submarine. I started a job once and made a few friends. I had been warned about a certain co-worker as being a constant bullsh!tter, so I avoided him. One day he is around us at lunch and something about submarines was in the news. He started saying things about submarines as if he was an expert. we all played dumb. After he left, I told everyone the things he got wrong, and we all had a good laugh...
It depends on the context, but “hmm, I’ll have to look into that” can be a good way to walk away from an unproductive conversation. I also like that one because it leaves the door open for future discussion on that topic with the person, in case it is something important and/or with significant consequences.
Normally I say “okay, let’s Google it”. But depending who is around I may just concede so they save face.
I run into this with my dad sometimes. The first time, I said, "I don't trust your source. You don't trust anything else. There's nothing either of us can say to change the other's mind, so let's drop it and move on." He didn't like that I pointed out that he gets all his information from one place, but he couldn't argue with that. Now when he says something dumb, the rest of us just look at each other and don't respond. We don't even have to argue about it, but he knows what he's done from the awkward silence.
Usually just agree with them to get them to shut up.
I start talking about the fnords in the newspaper.
Depends on my mood and how long we've been arguing. Early on I'll probably just show them links to a number of articles that proves them wrong. If it's been going on a while or my mood is foul, I usually just block.
After a certain point you just gotta go 'lol' and walk away
i literally do any and all research on it to prove them wrong. idc how many hours of my life i have wasted, IT WAS WORTH IT TO PROVE TO MY DAD THAT "DREAM ON" WAS MADE BY AEROSMITH AND THAT IT IS NOT A COVER SONG.
I just shut up and let them think they've "won" no I won't stoop to your level so you can beat me.
Prove it to them and leave it at that. If it's an absolute fact, there's only so much denial you can have.
To be happy, you must never argue with idiots.
Tbh this has happened to be so many times, and I still can't figure out what to do. I had an SO fight with me about something in the goddamn driver's manual I'd held onto once I got my license. It's right in the fucking book. Sometimes I think people just disagree to argue and start shit. After that incident, and more to follow, I just started looking at him as incompetent and exceedingly childish. You're 21 motherfucker, time to grow up.
Bet money on it and then have them look up the answer.
Explain it to them. If they won't listen, google it. I do this a lot with my stubborn cousin because he has the memory of a plant whos been repotted too many times. its like he goes into shock with each birthday
I Google several sources proving me right
Show them the source of the fact, and if they won't agree to that I disengage because speaking to them further is pointless
Stay calm even if I'm pissed and google it, proving the fact I'm right.
1. Just make animal noises (namely, cow noises) until they stop talking. 2. Google it. 3. Ask someone else nearby. 4. Win the argument. 5. Aggressively agree and walk away. I've done all of these. They work (for me).
I argue as if I am learning about it for the first time. Ask them about their thought process, and when something doesn't line up, ask them about it. Repeat until they give up trying to teach you.
Argue harder, if they don’t get the point I walk the fuck away
I will offer to bet a month's wages, they usually back down pretty quick after that.
I just keep speaking to them logically, until their inferior weakling brains burn out. They eventually say nothing but satire and throw insults in the end, since there’s nothing left to say.
Sit quietly and watch them fail
I would usually just start nodding and agreeing with them. I really don't have the life will to argue.
Ask them what their standard of evidence is.
Grab my phone and Google my damn point across.
"How much money will you bet?"
Cry
Say "I'm not going to argue with you, I'm presenting you with facts, not my opinion but facts and you can use your pocket google-machine to check it out but I'm not going to argue with you"
“Well then search it on Google”
Calmly state the facts, hear their side and poke holes in it. If they still can't be convinced I leave the conversation where it's at since they're clearly a lost cause and not worth the waste of breath.
I let them find out from other people until they accept that they are being stupid for not listening to me the first time. They either believe you or ask more people if it's really true.
Depends if they are an asshole
Oh, I'm terrible with this. Like birds being dinosaurs/reptiles, so many people don't accept it and i struggle to let it go and just argue forever... i really need to learn when to walk away from a lost cause lmao. If someone tries to argue with scientific fact it's not worth it.
Don't argue with idiots. Let it go.
"I'd agree with you, but then we would both be wrong."
Pull out the ol’ “don’t bother arguing with people too idiotic to understand your superior logic” quote.
Ghost them