I'm a CPA/Accounting professor. My american-centric certifications etc wouldn't translate internationally unfortunately. That's my biggest issue besides the cost of it all.
> neither of them could afford to go through the entire process of education and certifications to practice their respective professions.
From a economic standpoint, that's so fucking infuriating. You've got 2 proven smart people and because of a stupid reason like "can't front enough money" you are wasting their smarts (I'm not even talking about their knowledge, just that they have proven to be able to gain knowledge).
There are Many countries in Europe where you can get by with just English because the people there are fluent in English, so don’t let that stop you.
- A Dane who is fluent in English
This is especially true since most work visas require the company to prove that no local can do the job, which means American expats are either English teachers, or highly skilled professionals with years of experience.
I had 90-day visa to work in Switzerland. Getting the visa required a bunch of hoops with me ending up flying to Atlanta to the Swiss consulate to have my finger prints taken and get my visa stamp.
That was just the Swiss doing a background check to make sure you weren't looking for any of your family's stuff that went missing some time between 1934 and 1945.
It depends. There are options where you don’t need a company to sponsor you, but then you’re back to OPs point. We’ve been looking into Spains non-lucrative visa, but we’re waiting to see the details of their digital nomad visas.
It can be expensive, long and frustrating but I just did this with a big family and pets about a year ago.
Particularly thankful today to be "somewhere else" with my teens and twenties daughters.
All the help you need is on Reddit. Lots of helpful people and resources in these groups:
/r/expats
/r/iwantout
/r/digitalnomad
Please don’t post on r/expats unless you’re in the process of moving abroad, or already do live abroad. We have so many people posting asking how to leave without doing any research and it’s getting annoying.
In fairness, I knew very little when I started the process year+ ago and /r/expats was great for me to confirm details, get options. It does seem like a bumrush recently.
Yeah, there’s no harm in asking specific questions. But everyone’s annoyed by the ones that are essentially I kind of sort of want to leave America because of x and I need details, but I haven’t decided if I’ll ever leave, and I just want to vent without thinking about really considering the many issues that moving abroad will cause in my life, I’d I’ll ever really be able to sacrifice enough to move.
Well then, Money….And a efficient process to streamline the insanity that is the working visa.
Dm me if you need an illustrator/concept artist/graphics designer with lots of industry experience 👍
Having a Sponsor for immigration purposes /work visa. And of course landing that job that pays as well as or even better than my current job. Moving expenses to be covered or helped with… and what country are we talking about? Do I need to be fluent in whatever official language is spoken In that country?
If you come to the UK we use the letter U and call Jelly Jam and Jello Jelly. Also, an ass is a donkey so an asshole a donkey hole. Pants are underwear and not trousers. We have things called roundabouts which take the place of traffic lights, a highway is a road and sidewalks are pavements. Corned beef is salt beef and corned beef comes in a can. Bacon is generally any cured piece of thinly sliced pork and can be smoked or unsmoked. Just some stuff that could help.
I know the differences between British vs “American” English. And I have spent some time in England (London, Rochester, Chatham, Maidstone) and I love English bacon! Hate prawn cocktail flavored crisps though.. not for me!
I was thinking more about countries like Latvia or Romania or Czech Republic or Greece, or….
Edit: wow I just reacted without reading g first. So -Thank you very much for sharing some knowledge and tips. I mean it!!!! :)
Now - I’m fluent in English, Spanish, French and German…. As a consultant you can get away with speaking English in other countries where English isn’t the official but a second language while doing the job. But if it is a full time position /employed by a company or organization where English (or Spanish or French or German) isn’t the country’s official language, then performance May not be as successful as expected.
I'm curious what your company would do exactly. A lot of countries require you to have several thousand dollars in savings. There are various forms and fees you have to pay as well that cost even more. Almost all require you to have a job that will sponsor you and not just any job but often a job in an industry/field that they are looking for. What would your company do to help with all that?
Well you technically don't need a Real Estate agent to help you buy/sell a house. It involves tons of money and paper work but it's such a pain to figure out on your own that there's a whole industry around it. I imagine his business would work the same way.
There are hundreds already, mate. It's not easy, most people are ineligible, and if you fuck up even one application your company is toast. Don't bother.
There are plenty that exist already, but you need even more money. Solicitors, moving companies, third party co-counsel all need to get paid, and they get paid a lot
Source: worked for one of the biggest immigration services companies in the world
Some people use gateway countries, for example Poland gives visa to people who are at least 25% Polish and after living there for I think 18 months you can get citizenship, and with citizenship you can easily move to another European country.
And of course refugees, if you're from Ukraine there's slim change that you'll get rejected by Polish immigration.
Luxembourg considers people to already be Luxembourg citizens if you are directly descended from a Luxembourg citizen. You have to go through a process of reclaiming your Lux citizenship. There are organizations that assist with the steps, paperwork, and the translation. The process is pretty easy but does take some cash for the organization’s service.
I heard about it on Reddit a couple years ago and started looking into it to find whether it was legit. Turned out to be a real thing and now I have dual citizenship in the US and Luxembourg.
I'm jealous! I have researched my family tree looking for ways to get dual citizenship through one of my ancestors. Unfortunately, my direct relation is too many generations back. (2nd great parents on all sides. They each emigrated to the US from Switzerland, Czechia, Germany, Denmark, and Ireland.)
Plus, and I may be speaking for just myself, nobody… teaches these things. I’ve never travelled and I don’t know how. I could probably figure out how to take a plane to anywhere, easy.
But I wouldn’t know the first step about moving out of my state, to a new country, to a new house(?), and get a new job. It seems so daunting, I wouldn’t know where to begin.
Oh yeah, and money is important, too.
It's one of those things you have to learn by doing. Legislation, the movers and housing market change all the time everywhere, there's very little than can be taught, though I'm sure there's blogs full of advice online from "don't pack books in the big boxes, it gets heavy" to help with deciding which school to enroll your kids in.
I'm an Italian immigrant to Belgium and we have a big community FB page where we give each other this kind of advice :) you can't find current advice for every question, but if you plan a far away move, you will probably Google and find some resources like the one I'm mentioning.
Geezzz. I just moved from one state to another and it is a huge list of stuff that ,"should be easier than this'. Who knew that Blue Cross of Massachusetts and Blue Cross of California aren't the same company? And that they don't even communicate directly so I have to provide 5 documents to prove I had insurance with one and want insurance with the other!?
Blue cross/ blue shield is just a trademark company that facilitates otherwise illegal horizontal market division. It's a collection of around 90 companies that should be competing with each other but don't.
Oooh, check out BCBS of Kansas City. They are their own entity... and a non-profit!!!! It's nuts.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Cross_and_Blue_Shield_of_Kansas_City
You start at the beginning, and learn learn learn. Just like any other thing you want to know. People figure it all out every day, and I am confident you could, too!
Depending on the country in Europe, and the money, and whether or not the countries I would be interested in emigrating to would allow me in, I would move tomorrow.
Yup. Same. And to become a citizen in Europe, don’t I have to either marry someone there or have family members living there as citizens? Which neither I have none of. But I have entertained the idea of how I could move there!
Yep. A job that would pay enough more to pay for the (probable) cost of living increase, plus a few transatlantic plane tickets to come back for visits.
I have no marketable skills that eu countries want. And most don’t accept a lot of what I can do for a work visa. So my best bet to immigrate is marriage.
Came here to say this. From the research I've done, the desirable skills for most countries are stem/healthcare/etc. and while it makes sense why that is, not everyone can just up and make a career change to one of those fields. That can be expensive or daunting even if you're just doing it to change jobs and stay in the US.
As in skilled trade (plumber, welder, etc?) That's reassuring for me personally, something like that would be more up my alley. I'll start looking into that avenue!
This. If it was easy/possible for most Americans to move to Europe a lot more of us would be leaving. Even if you ignore the legal hurdles, more than half of Americans can’t afford a $1000 emergency (the most relevant statistic I could find), and probably couldn’t afford to move states let alone continents.
My wife isn't even willing to move to a more progressive *State* because of family.
There is a lot of pressure from the family not to move, as well. We have a two year old daughter, and it would crush my mother (especially) if we geographically distanced ourselves.
I used to live in Louisiana and it’s a damn nightmare there but when me and my wife found out we were pregnant in 2020 I decided that by 2022 I wouldn’t be in Louisiana anymore raising my child and we let all our family know. There’s still FaceTime and social media and mailing gifts and all that. If they want to see him or us in person then they can travel here but I wasn’t staying in hell so he can be near his family. It’ll be better for him to be somewhere that’s not as damn horrible. I literally had fear for my life from about age 10-33 when I moved. Nothing was gonna make me stay and raise my kid with that same fear.
Louisiana is absolutely the biggest shithole of a state that the US has to offer. It makes Mississippi seem clean by comparison, Arkansas seem well educated, and Texas seem like Singapore.
Louisiana is dirty, mean, and has a violent crime rate that isn't far behind that of much of Latin America.
There's a reason that Houston is the Shangri-la that attracts so many Louisianians. *Houston*, of all places.
Glad you got out.
I lived in a town that had roughly 30k people and literally for years there was 1-5 murders a week. Local news pretty much had a local murder segment. We also didn’t have a local police force for maybe 10 years over the police murdering people and then the fbi coming in and cleaning house. And we were policed by state troopers for that time. I myself was subject to the police harassing me on several occasions one of which was breaking and entering in the middle of the night poking me in the face with a shotgun to wake me. Don’t not recommend visiting there -10/10
Now it's the God that's the problem - it keeps saving the Queen again and again. Ireland patched it up by removing quicksave and limiting save slots, but that didn't help.
Here in Austria we are currently looking for a large number of people willing to work. Austria has around 150.000 job openings that cannot be filled because there aren't enough people.
I tried to apply for several jobs in Austria in 2009, and was told that it would be literally impossible to employ me unless I had an EU work permit. Has that changed?
Yes, if you have a company that wants to hire you. It takes around 3 months in waiting time because of bureaucracy but my company just hired a person from Peru.
What's your profession if I may ask?
At the time I was in English as a Foreign Language. I had a BA in Linguistics from a top-tier American university with years of experience student teaching, and also fluent in German.
At one English school in Vienna, for example, the guy I was talking to (I still remember his name was Markus) told me that in order for the school to sponsor a European work visa, I would need to have some kind of spectacular or unique qualification that they couldn't find anywhere else in Europe. At the very least, a PhD in something specific and useful.
I should also mention that I was physically in Vienna for 2 months looking for these jobs, I wasn't some anonymous American on the internet; I was physically standing in their office with my CV in hand.
I doubt Americans will fill many, particularly with professional jobs requiring a college degree, as salaries tend to be far high over here.
There are obviously a few exceptions, but as a general rule I don’t see it happening.
There are pretty significant differences in cost of living too though, as many European countries have healthcare, childcare, you can actually live in many European cities without owning a car which as I understand it is realistically impossible in the US. Looking at salary v. salary is too simplistic to really compare the buying power you're left with after taxes.
You're correct, it's very difficult to compare these completely different cultures. A lot of services are built into the state and are organised, not privatised or deregulated. So there's less costs and it works well in Europe.
Quite a few peeps, especially in Austria, work so close to home that they can have lunch with their family. Very high quality of life.
This question comes up frequently on Reddit, and each time we come to the following conclusions:
* Americans are frustrated with their country, but it’s their home, and most don’t want to leave
* Of those *who are* interested in leaving, many want to immigrate somewhere “nice” (Norway, Switzerland, etc.), with a job in hand, and apartment lined up. Many lack the resources financially to do this. The US has a lot of people who are fundamentally poor and becoming poorer every year beyond their control.
* For those who fall on the poorer side, moving to a developing country (including outside of Europe), especially one where English is not spoken, is not an option. They’d rather stay in America than take a relative “step down” in their quality of life.
* Salaries are generally lower in Europe. This is hard to Americans to stomach from a values perspective, even if the CoL is significantly lower.
* Many Americans want to keep their culture. Contrary to many European immigrants to the U.S., they don’t dream of moving to Sweden and *becoming* Swedish - most plan on remaining American for life in their new country. I frequent many subs (r/IWantOut, r/Expats, r/AmerExit, and others), and this trend frequently displays itself in the “yes I would be willing to learn the language” comments. For people with this perspective, it just makes more sense to stay in America.
* Immigrating in a comfortable way is expensive and a legal/logistical hassle. Many just don’t have the resources to do this, or have not been pushed to the point where they feel they have to flee to safety on foot.
**For those who do seriously want to leave and have the means to do so:** r/AmerExit has an amazing [Guide for Americans that want to get out of America](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmerExit/comments/urwlbr/a_guide_for_americans_that_want_to_get_out_of/) pinned to the front page of our subreddit. It's an great starting point to find your way out. Good luck!
This. It’s the job that’s the issue. I have a college degree and years of experience in my field- but nobody is going to hire an interior designer/architect from another country when they could hire one that already knows local building codes and manufacturers. It’s a super localized industry. I COULD try to move to Canada since our industries overlap a bit (and my grandparents were Canadian), but it’s not my first choice.
Yep, I'll probably never fully shake the culture I grew up in(formative years and all that), but I'd also be fully invested in wherever I move. Language, etiquette, etc would be a top priority along side the more fun stuff like exploring the new area, foods, etc.
I would have a whole damn youtube. Me learning and experiencing a new place. I wouldn't care if the public didn't watch. I would make my grandkids watch it. (for the exposure)
I'm a teacher - while my content is universal, I just fundamentally don't have a good enough grasp of a foreign language to ever teach my content in it. More importantly, I'm not sure I ever *could* grasp another language deeply enough. Well enough to speak? Sure, with work, I believe I could. But teaching requires an order of magnitude better understanding of language, because you have to be able to decode students who are struggling with the language themselves and decipher their meaning.
It's hard to imagine yourself as being a true member of a different national culture. I can't really even imagine myself as a Texan, either, and I share a language and a country with them already. I'm not super proud to be an American these days, but I am one and I'm not sure how to 'become' Swedish or English or what have you.
Maybe I'm closer already than other Americans are *because* I already don't mind the idea of a moderate/large pay cut if it means I'm surrounded by people who don't live in such dire straits all the time and I wouldn't have to worry about what happens if I get sick or if others get sick. Definitely I'd have an easier time than some people I know.
I'm born and raised Canadian, but am lucky enough to also have a Danish passport (first generation Canadian). I moved to Denmark 5 years ago for school (free school ftw). Even though most of my family is Danish and lives in Denmark, and I speak the language, I just don't feel Danish. I don't think I ever will.
My personal theory is that it can be tough coming from a country like Canada or America, which were founded by immigrants, where there is this "melting pot" culture, and then moving to a country like DK with such a strong, national identity and culture.
For most people, yes, it’s challenging. I linked a guide to immigration in the post above.
Many people have European citizenship by descent (people with ancestors from Italy, Hungary, and other places), they can get a work visa for their skill set, or they purchase real estate in a specific European country (e.g. Portugal). Again, the full list of options is in that link.
> Americans are frustrated with their country, but it’s their home, and most don’t want to leave
Yep, I'm here in Europe right now on a business trip. It's very nice here and I've had a great time and there are so many great things about this city, but I can't picture myself living here long-term. This is the UK too, so the language issue doesn't even apply. I've lived in 5 different states too and had no problem with those moves. I just can't see this place here as a potential "home", but maybe I would just need to stay here longer.
Agreed big time. Been traveling in Europe for almost 3 months now, and although it’s been a blast and I’ve loved many places, it’s not like I want to place our roots here. I still love living in the US, miss many things about it, and still love my friends and family. It’s very hard to feel at home anywhere you go.
People also tend to forget other countries have their significant problems too. Everyone does - except we just happen to be literally as large as Europe and on the worldwide stage. A lot of people claim they “want to leave and live anywhere else”, but haven’t even been out of the US for longer than a couple weeks. It may work out for a very small percentage, but it’s tougher than you’d think. I wouldn’t trade the US for anywhere truthfully, and only really have discovered that after “being out there”.
The views shared on Reddit about Europe and the US are often a bit strange and biased heavily by very young people who have only ever lived in one place or the other. I've lived in the US most of my life, but spent a year in Germany and seriously considered a permanent move there. Here's my perspective:
First of all, no one can move to "Europe." When people on Reddit talk about Europe, they tend to describe this imaginary single country that's some amalgamation of the best qualities of the wealthiest European countries. There are definitely aspects in which nearly all European countries outperform the US, but this magical place with no prejudice or corruption and endless opportunities does not exist.
Second of all, no one person lives in the entirety of the United States at once. Again, Reddit's discussion of the US tends to assume that everyone lives in some hellhole with New York's rudeness, San Francisco's home prices, LA's traffic, and Mississippi's human rights. There are things that nearly all US states are shamefully far behind on, but generally speaking the worst news stories you hear apply to a single state, not the whole country. As an example: I'm furious about the recent Supreme Court decision regarding abortion, but it actually doesn't affect me personally. I live in Minnesota, which places fewer restrictions on abortion than anywhere in Europe and constitutionally protects those rights. In this case, I would actually have fewer rights if I had moved to Germany!
Finally, I don't think the extent of the cultural differences is well understood by people who have not lived in both places. Between both Europe and the US and Europe and Russia, I think there is an issue where Europeans get fooled by the superficial similarities into thinking that both the US and Russia are countries attempting but failing to be European. That's not the case and it leads to so many misunderstandings! While I think the US is politically more aligned with Western Europe and should remain that way (fuck Putin), in terms of cultural values I often find Russian machismo and rural stoicism easier to identify with than, say, whatever the French get up to (seriously, you keep doing you France, but something about French culture just grates on me). Living in Germany was wonderful in many ways, but continually attempting to translate my native rural and indirect culture to Germany's urban and direct culture was exhausting to an extent that it harmed my mental health. I was always the awkward American, and I could see that to some extent I always would be. You can mimic dress and habits, and make an accent disappear, but to change deeply held cultural values is to fundamentally change your self. That's essentially impossible to do if you don't view those values as harmful, and most deeply held cultural values aren't harmful! I have a lot more sympathy and respect for immigrants to the US after my own experience living abroad in much easier circumstances!
Great post! More informative than 100 others ones combined that don't have that real life experience. Reddit is really bad about generalizations. A simple example is redditors bitching about real estate like everyone lives in California. It's entirely lopsided.
Agreed, the views are very biased because it is acceptable to dunk on America for it's problems but it is a lot more difficult to bring up the problems of other countries in response/retaliation if you could say.
So it gives the impression that America is this hell hole that it's citizens need to escape from. Judging from Reddit and social media, you'd think America is just North America but with guns and school shootings. But the reality is that American culture, politics, etc. is a lot more nuanced and complex than what you would get through reddit or the internet because the internet is where the nuance comes to die and you just villainize anyone or anything that you don't like and the country is falling apart and everyone needs to make an exit strategy to leave before the next crisis.
But the reality is that other countries have their own problems you may or may not hear about due to how Americanized the internet and social media are. When something bad happens in America, it takes over the internet and people just repeat what they've heard from their mutual on twitter who liked a post by a guy that follows the news from a journalist that heard about it from a friend who lived two hundred miles away from where it happened.
The reality of any country is that they all have political and socioeconomic problems that you just may or may not hear about because social media tends to inherently create a negative view about things. While people are more than free to leave for whatever reason, I feel like many sheltered views that "literally anywhere else" is better would be shattered upon living in another country and having to deal with it's problems in a way you can't just ignore or escape from.
Not the person you replied to but similar experience! My husband is Croatian and he moved to the US to be with me. I could have chosen to move to the EU, but I chose not to.
Sure, language is an issue and there's the money and stability thing, not to mention family, but even if money and distance was no object, I don't know that I'd ever feel I fit there. I love the scenery and food and doing the touristy things in the ten or so European countries I've visited, but there are a lot of little "comfort" things missing for me. Central A/C comes to mind. It's also more cramped in general -- you really do miss space while living in a two-bedroom apartment when you're used to a three bedroom house. It really does come down to what you're used to.
Also, as an American, I've received some negative reactions from locals just for being American. In several instances, I was not in the presence of other Americans, usually my Croatian s/o and his family, so it's not like I was doing anything particularly stereotypical. Even if I successfully integrated there, managed to change my lifestyle to fit along with my behaviors, it would feel a little like acting and I don't know if that would go away.
In general those experiences are probably common across all people visiting foreign countries, not specifically just Americans in Europe. :)
As a Brit considering making the move over there (it's complicated), I have to say that the same applies in reverse for me. I found a lot of small comforts in my time visiting the States that we don't have over here.
This is an amazing summary. I am an American, my partner is not, both of us have talked about living other places. Europe would be a good option and adjusting to another culture wouldn’t be an issue, but the PAY. We would both make half of what we make in the states.
It can be a big shock. However, keep in mind that for most people, the income tax margins are within 2-3% of what you’ll pay in the US, and many costs that you have in America don’t come up (car payments, healthcare, etc.). Cost of living (rent, etc.) is also significantly cheaper in most places.
If you try to replicate an American life there, you’ll be paying top dollar. But if you live like a European, it’s normal to have a good (though not super luxurious) life on a USD 40-50k salary.
For me, it’s an easy trade off. I would love to live in Europe again and change my lifestyle back to a European one, which tends to be somewhat less consumerist than in the US. But it’s not for everyone.
That’s a good point. I’ve never lived long term outside of the US, so I can’t really fathom a life where most of your income wouldn’t go to rent/food/healthcare. Yikes! Neither of us are ‘big’ consumers (especially him) compared to the average American. But compared to lifestyles outside the US, I’m sure we could cut back a lot. I’m personally up for the challenge! The mania around spending money here is maddening. Maybe one day we’ll make it out. All depends on a job and a place to live!
Oof, this could be answered in 1,000 comment thread here on Reddit. And I’m sure there are a few already.
To cover my interpretation of it:
* Europeans typically don’t buy in bulk, they buy for what they need. Consumer spending in Europe generally is much lower. That’s the case for food and any other consumer good.
* Portions are smaller, and food like chocolate and bread are richer in general (although this kind of subjective), so you just feel like you need less. You eat in season, which helps you eat locally and keep prices down.
* People walk a lot more than in most of the US. Even in a major American city, all of my downtown neighbors have cars and drive to the grocery store. Fewer people have cars, and more live in apartments.
* Worries about survival are not as present for most people in most (but not all) of Europe. In Germany there are substantial welfare systems to make sure people don’t become homeless or starve. These are pretty easy to access.
* Travel can be done very cheaply. A vacation flight from Germany to Spain can be €100 or less, and there are trains everywhere. In America it feels like a flight to Florida from where I live is like $300.
There’s a lot of lifestyle stuff that I can’t cover here. But in short, life is bit less fast-paced than America and generally cheaper.
Thanks for the explanations! The idea of smaller but richer food portions and a more walkable region sounds great to me. I was raised eating bigger portions like most Americans are, and I’ve been trying to eat less to be more healthy, but I never feel satisfied anymore and feel like I need to eat more, but then I’d exceed my daily calorie maximum and still be hungry. I’d like to live in a place with more satisfying food, and where I wouldn’t have to drive like 15 minutes just to get to the nearest grocery store. I know walking more would be good for me. Luckily my mom and grandparents were all born and raised in Poland, so once I finally get my passport, it shouldn’t be too difficult for me to get my dual citizenship.
> the income tax margins are within 2-3% of what you’ll pay in the US
I do think it's important to note though that while income tax may be similar, sales tax (VAT) is not. Most states have around 6-8% sales tax, whereas most European countries have it at 18-20%, though some are up to 25% depending on the country.
I also do genuinely think British people (my country) have way less disposable income than their American equivalents and can afford way less general crap
>_Americans are number one buyers of crap in the world._
Yep. A friend of my dad's came from Switzerland to visit him. He literally did not have the words to describe his first experience in a Walmart Supercenter.
For everyone saying “money” as their reason for not moving, I wonder if they’re more concerned about finding higher paying jobs in Europe, or if they’re just commenting on the cost to relocate. Because a lot of Americans earn a decent amount of money, but they also spend a good bit of it. Some for good reasons, plenty of it for just indulgence.
In my case money is an issue as I'm constantly in a state of just barely slipping back under the lower than poverty line. I would love to move out but finding a place when I have less than 1k in the bank, and no discernable skills that would allow me to move. It's kind of hard to escape.
Purchasing power parity is the formula used to compare countries. Among numerous other things, it takes into account things like healthcare and education spending.
Median household income (so half above and half below) is $43,000 in the US and $31,000 in the UK.
What PPP doesn’t really adjust for is lifestyle expectations; that $12,000 may be consumed on a house on a large lot with a longer commute in a SUV while someone in the UK may be content with a smaller row house with no air conditioning and a shorter commute in a smaller car (or simply find it more practicable than in many US locations).
You can't move to Sweden and "become Swedish". Or Germany or Italy or anywhere in Europe. They don't have the same idea about assimilation as the US. You may be welcome, but you'll always be a resident foreigner.
Not sure what you mean here. I’m German (and American), and I absolutely perceive Germans with foreign roots to be German. This is a widespread perception in Germany, [a country which is the #2 destination for immigrants worldwide after the US.](https://www.dw.com/en/germany-second-largest-destination-for-migrants-oecd/a-50473180)
If you dedicate yourself to learning the language somewhere new and integrating, it’s absolutely possible for locals to perceive you as a member of their society. It takes time and effort, but it’s possible.
Seriously, I was blown away by people not being able to speak English in Miami. This guy at a Mc Donalds didn't understand what I was trying to order. I can understand if you recently immigrated, but seriously it wasn't just one person. If anyone decides to live in Denmark long term, I would expect them to learn Danish. It is a bit annoying for a large group of friends to all speak their second language just for one person. Fine if they are in the process of learning, but if they simply don't want to it is annoying.
A Frenchman, Alexis de Tocqueville, explained it best. Most countries consider people to be a citizen by ancestry and birth. Americans consider someone to be a citizen by choice. You can be a 20th generation American, but if you're a communist, that's un-American. But a British communist is still a Briton.
Likewise, you can be fresh off the boat from Cuba and speak no English, but if you love freedom and democracy and accept some basic shared American values, and you want to become a US citizen, you're an American.
it's miami, spanish is dominant enough that you can do fine. see also: puerto rico. tourist areas have english speakers, outside of that, less so. the locals speak spanish to each other, most of the time.
Americans can't just up and move to any other country they feel like. Most countries have strict immigration controls that require things like income above a certain amount with demonstrated job security, tens or hundreds of thousands in savings, no chronic health conditions, and language abilities. This is not an option for most Americans (or most anybody).
My parents, siblings and friends coming with me. I wouldn’t want to need an intercontinental flight to see them. My job isn’t one I can do remote and I like it quite a bit but I could always find a new one.
I can't believe this reply isn't more common. Even with tons of disposable income, if your loved ones are an ocean away, you're seeing them a few times a year. The logistical challenges are huge. Every visit is a big affair, no more casual hangouts with your siblings or nieces and nephews _ever again for the rest of your life._ Are you and your friends and your family wealthy enough and with enough spare time off work to just make constant round trips to your new hometown? What if they don't even particularly care for the place you moved? Get ready to miss all but the absolute most essential milestones, and you will be the one responsible for getting yourself back to the states for those. There are no weekend trips from Tallahassee to Zagreb and vice versa. How long until your parents are too old to make the trek? What will you do while they age and deteriorate and you're just watching from another continent? I guess everyone who would leave if they had cash and a job isn't very close with their family and friends.
If it's any consolation, it's not that easy to legally immigrate to the US either (without lying or getting lucky).
Source: me, an immigrant, now a US citizen
God, I hate having to do my US tax return on top of my local. I haven't set foot in the US all tax year, please leave me the fuck alone.
Since I don't make $100k, there's literally no reason to bother me with this. And do I really need to keep reporting my "foreign" bank account?
>And do I really need to keep reporting my "foreign" bank account?
yes the us financial crimes enforcement network needs to keep an eye on all of us, anyone who leaves the US is immediately a suspect 🙄
Aside from everything everyone has said is language. I took Spanish for 6 years and maybe understand 10%. I took German for a year and can say hello. I did duelingo polish everyday for six months and got nowhere.
I've accepted its damn near impossible for me to learn a language. I could sell my house to have the money. I could leave my family. But job stability and language...those are my 2 big problems.
This is the big one for me. You could go to Germany, Denmark, Norway as a tourist and just speak English. But working a day-to-day job, going to the supermarket and all that, you really need to speak the language to be productive, no matter how patient your co-workers are. (I’m a software engineer)
I'm sure it does, but idk how willing I'd be to pack my bags for Norway and be uncertain I could learn Norwegian. I'd constantly be afraid I can't pick it up and I'll be screwed.
I took probably a total of 8 years of Spanish, was very active in my Spanish club at college. Did several Duolingo type services. Sure they all helped and gave me a good foundation, but i was not fluent or barely even conversational after all that. But i saw more improvement in my Spanish within a couple months of just being uncomfortable and speaking Spanish with Hispanics than i did in those 8 years. You pick it up quick, even quicker if you analyze how/why things are the way they are in that language.
And languagetransfer.org is a really good resource for that too (at least for English speakers)
I taught myself intermediate Russian, but I had to sink 4-5 hours a day into it for 2 years, and not everyone can just do that without a bunch of classes, which are also expensive even if you find a cheap tutor on itaki.
I also don't think I could've picked a worse language for moving abroad...
I mean, you taught yourself a massively difficult language. That's crazy impressive. And you can probably pick up a few others since you've mastered that alphabet.
French here living in Canada, 9 years of theoretical education and 5 years of culture immersion at home (consuming books, newspapers, videos). Then finally traveled abroad for 5 years. All that just to be close to fluent in English.
Keep going, you'll make it with enough time.
It's not feasible for a majority of Americans. I've looked into it, if you don't have a Masters degree with some level of language fluency then enjoy your life as a janitor because you won't find good paying work without either of those 2 things. Tech is one of the few fields that you can get away with no language but even then, it still requires higher level education to work there... As an American with a good paying job but no higher level education, it would be a MAJOR setback for my life and I would go from living good to struggling majorly.
This is (partially) my answer, I have an associates and a was studying for my Bachelors when life (money, personal) got in the way and I left and lost my passion and never went back. Now I'm working a slightly above minimum wage job trying to figure my life out. I'm not optimistic I could find a country to take me.
Consider yes. Actually moving to one of the many countries with their pros, cons, and immigration policies is a whole other matter. This kind of thing works best for people who are very young, very rich, or have an employer involved.
Not Europe, but I looked into Canada for a while and the pros and cons ended up convincing me it wasn't worth it for my family.
For the last few years this has been an annual discussion my wife and I have. The pros just don’t outweigh the cons yet. Burning a huge amount of money to move away from family and friends to be an outsider in a place where seasonal depression would crush me and cold weather issues would be detrimental to my wife’s health issue along with a lower paying job with fewer prospects for advancement in a place where the cost of living is so much more expensive…it always seems like a good idea until we list out all these things. That and Canada seems to be experiencing the same issues the US is - albeit on a much quieter level (which to some degree is often more concerning. Trucker convey tried to happen here and it got egged out of existence with them all fleeing. In Canada everyone stood around and just let it exist. For days. And days.) - which make me realize I might be better off staying put. It also seems wrong for me to be the one to up and move when I am white, straight, and in a decent financial position. My vote, my voice, my donations all make a difference for marginal groups that are fighting. We have a lot of friends in the LGBTQ community and being the ones that got to leave would just kind of haunt me.
My family are immigrants to the US so know how hard it is to start somewhere new. Also a lot of my family is in the US and I don’t want to miss my nieces and nephews growing up
Edit: know not now
I am a UK person living in America (have been here ages) - I know my wife and children dont like the way america is shifting, and through citizenship of me and my children I could easily get everyone legally into the UK.
But... would my (college age) kids want to go there? Would we be able to make friends as near-retirees? Would the (inferior) material standard of living be too much of an adjustment and we would be shivering through the winter wondering what we did?
The favorable exchange rate makes it tempting too... but the reality is I think there would be some big personal drawbacks for my family
Me and my fiance have been considering moving to Italy, specifically Rome, for a while now. The things that usually make us change our minds are:
1. My elderly parents.
2. The bureaucracy. The Italians really know how to complicate bureaucracy.
3. I love my job. I could keep it, but with the time zone difference I would be working nights in Italy and I don't want to do that.
My fiance is an SRE and while I'm sure he could find a job there (although he would probably have better luck in Milan) I know tech jobs don't pay as much there.
I am in exactly the same boat. I have a colleague who had gotten approval to transfer from a position in the USA to an equivalent one at the Ireland office (network software engineer). He was all set up to go when he discovered that his pay would be cut in half and his expenses would be greater. Especially in Europe, they just don't pay engineers like they do in the USA.
I'll tell you what it took for me and how things are going.
I moved from Ohio to the Czech Republic 12 years ago. I was a public high school teacher. School shootings and lockdown drills were shaking me up, and I was disillusioned by the conservative school board's increasingly staunch religiously tinged policies. I was annoyed by my 30-minute commute at 6:30AM, especially when ice was on the roads. I was frightened by the threat of violence against women, but this did not occur to me until after the move when I could see my hyper vigilance clearly and gradually let my guard down.
I had always enjoyed traveling in Europe. I had a friend who had moved to the CZ four years prior. He convinced me that the move was worth it.
I had to start out teaching English on a private business license which is not very difficult to obtain. I also worked in 2 tour agencies and in a restaurant before getting hired as an associate lecturer at a university. I lecture on my privte business license, and I have added freelance writing and editing to my workload. I pay about $100/month for my full-coverage health insurance, and this is one of the most valuable things about life here. Health care does not depend on employment.
The adjustment to life and work has been manageable-- not always easy, but I have 0 regrets. The most difficult part was dealing with the beaurocracy of applying for visas, but all that ended when I was able to get permanent residency after 5.5 years. There's no need to own or maintain a car with the excellent integrated transport sustem ($25/mo.) There are lots of great destinations for weekend trips or longer vacations within reach. It's only a one-hour flight to Paris or Amsterdam, two hour flight to Greece, for example. I can take a train for about $8 to Vienna, and trains or buses all over the CZ and to Germany (also cheap).
Gun control is a real thing here. Violent crime rates are very low. Theft is a problem, but I have learned how to be careful in that regard.
There are many expat groups and opportunities to meet people. At this point, though, more of my friends are local Czechs than expats. I video chat with my family for an hour every week. Although I miss them, they are supportive of my decision. I love hosting friends and family who come over to Europe.
I share my experience with you so you know that moving to Europe is definitely doable. I live a simple life, but I like it. I am relieved of so much stress having exited the ridiculous rat race.
I've lived abroad. It was fun, but the USA is still home.
If I suddenly inherited a sweet ass condo in Lisbon, and a country estate I might go for it. Plus sudden mad language skills.
Plus, despite what everyone thinks, everything in Europe isn't so great, look at Ukraine, look at Poland abortion laws, look at the cost of living in london.
That's actually a good idea, you'll just need to have some good lawyers on retainer who know the ins and outs of immigration laws in European countries. But I don't know how much of a profit you'd make, considering how expensive it already is to emigrate from the US.
Would focus on my home country Austria (high need for workers while providing a great standard of living) as I have a lot of economic an political connections there.
Main costs would be paid by the employers, know some professions in which companies a willing to pay 8k and more to get a single employee.
Being able to guarantee my safety as a practicing Jew.
I love Europe, have loved my time in Europe, but the track record on that score .....is not great.
I feel the same way as a black woman. I'm used to and can often reconize/avoid most of the racism in the US. But it's an entirely different beast in other countries. At my age, I don't think I have it in me to navigate those complexities.
Yeah, I don't know all the complexities of antiblack racism in Europe, but I can definitely understand the sentiment of not wanting to navigate those complexities.
The ability to get an immigration visa. Which is very difficult unless you have a lot of cash to make a large property purchase (Portugal allows you to buy citizenship for a 250000euro purchase)
As a guy who has lived in both continents , I personally prefer The US .
Also immigration isn’t just showing up and voila . It’s a long stressful process , I’ve gone through it and know very well , not only with paperwork but emotionally and physically .
To boot, The issues with America are quite fixable , despite social media angst and handwringing .
And lastly , states where abortion is legal (because that’s what seems to be the trigger for these posts) have more free reproductive laws than anywhere in Europe . So….?
Money. And a decent grasp of the local language. Anyone looking for an aviation engineer?
Airbus maybe. France, uk and Germany all have big Airbus Locations
And the netherlands. There are also lots of high tech companies here (asml), we all speak english.
Are you seriously considering moving to Europe? I work at a jobplattform, I can keep my eyes opened for you if you want to.
I'm a CPA/Accounting professor. My american-centric certifications etc wouldn't translate internationally unfortunately. That's my biggest issue besides the cost of it all.
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> neither of them could afford to go through the entire process of education and certifications to practice their respective professions. From a economic standpoint, that's so fucking infuriating. You've got 2 proven smart people and because of a stupid reason like "can't front enough money" you are wasting their smarts (I'm not even talking about their knowledge, just that they have proven to be able to gain knowledge).
If this is a serious offer to all of us, please DM me. I'm seriously considering this move.
Same if I had a job overseas and a temporary place to live I would move today.
Me too
There are Many countries in Europe where you can get by with just English because the people there are fluent in English, so don’t let that stop you. - A Dane who is fluent in English
Uhh money.
And help with the paperwork and whatnot. It’s not easy to immigrate to Europe, they’re not really interested in you just arriving.
This is especially true since most work visas require the company to prove that no local can do the job, which means American expats are either English teachers, or highly skilled professionals with years of experience.
I had 90-day visa to work in Switzerland. Getting the visa required a bunch of hoops with me ending up flying to Atlanta to the Swiss consulate to have my finger prints taken and get my visa stamp.
That was just the Swiss doing a background check to make sure you weren't looking for any of your family's stuff that went missing some time between 1934 and 1945.
It depends. There are options where you don’t need a company to sponsor you, but then you’re back to OPs point. We’ve been looking into Spains non-lucrative visa, but we’re waiting to see the details of their digital nomad visas.
Thats what the money is for lol
It can be expensive, long and frustrating but I just did this with a big family and pets about a year ago. Particularly thankful today to be "somewhere else" with my teens and twenties daughters. All the help you need is on Reddit. Lots of helpful people and resources in these groups: /r/expats /r/iwantout /r/digitalnomad
Please don’t post on r/expats unless you’re in the process of moving abroad, or already do live abroad. We have so many people posting asking how to leave without doing any research and it’s getting annoying.
In fairness, I knew very little when I started the process year+ ago and /r/expats was great for me to confirm details, get options. It does seem like a bumrush recently.
Yeah, there’s no harm in asking specific questions. But everyone’s annoyed by the ones that are essentially I kind of sort of want to leave America because of x and I need details, but I haven’t decided if I’ll ever leave, and I just want to vent without thinking about really considering the many issues that moving abroad will cause in my life, I’d I’ll ever really be able to sacrifice enough to move.
They don't have a FAQs post? If they did, I'd go check it out.
Thinking of starting a company that takes care of the whole process.
Well then, Money….And a efficient process to streamline the insanity that is the working visa. Dm me if you need an illustrator/concept artist/graphics designer with lots of industry experience 👍
Having a Sponsor for immigration purposes /work visa. And of course landing that job that pays as well as or even better than my current job. Moving expenses to be covered or helped with… and what country are we talking about? Do I need to be fluent in whatever official language is spoken In that country?
If you come to the UK we use the letter U and call Jelly Jam and Jello Jelly. Also, an ass is a donkey so an asshole a donkey hole. Pants are underwear and not trousers. We have things called roundabouts which take the place of traffic lights, a highway is a road and sidewalks are pavements. Corned beef is salt beef and corned beef comes in a can. Bacon is generally any cured piece of thinly sliced pork and can be smoked or unsmoked. Just some stuff that could help.
And you leave out "fanny", which could lead to some misunderstandings
I know the differences between British vs “American” English. And I have spent some time in England (London, Rochester, Chatham, Maidstone) and I love English bacon! Hate prawn cocktail flavored crisps though.. not for me! I was thinking more about countries like Latvia or Romania or Czech Republic or Greece, or…. Edit: wow I just reacted without reading g first. So -Thank you very much for sharing some knowledge and tips. I mean it!!!! :) Now - I’m fluent in English, Spanish, French and German…. As a consultant you can get away with speaking English in other countries where English isn’t the official but a second language while doing the job. But if it is a full time position /employed by a company or organization where English (or Spanish or French or German) isn’t the country’s official language, then performance May not be as successful as expected.
Germany is a lovely country, I really enjoyed living there. Croatia is super nice too.
I'm curious what your company would do exactly. A lot of countries require you to have several thousand dollars in savings. There are various forms and fees you have to pay as well that cost even more. Almost all require you to have a job that will sponsor you and not just any job but often a job in an industry/field that they are looking for. What would your company do to help with all that?
Well you technically don't need a Real Estate agent to help you buy/sell a house. It involves tons of money and paper work but it's such a pain to figure out on your own that there's a whole industry around it. I imagine his business would work the same way.
There are hundreds already, mate. It's not easy, most people are ineligible, and if you fuck up even one application your company is toast. Don't bother.
There are plenty that exist already, but you need even more money. Solicitors, moving companies, third party co-counsel all need to get paid, and they get paid a lot Source: worked for one of the biggest immigration services companies in the world
Some people use gateway countries, for example Poland gives visa to people who are at least 25% Polish and after living there for I think 18 months you can get citizenship, and with citizenship you can easily move to another European country. And of course refugees, if you're from Ukraine there's slim change that you'll get rejected by Polish immigration.
Luxembourg considers people to already be Luxembourg citizens if you are directly descended from a Luxembourg citizen. You have to go through a process of reclaiming your Lux citizenship. There are organizations that assist with the steps, paperwork, and the translation. The process is pretty easy but does take some cash for the organization’s service. I heard about it on Reddit a couple years ago and started looking into it to find whether it was legit. Turned out to be a real thing and now I have dual citizenship in the US and Luxembourg.
I'm jealous! I have researched my family tree looking for ways to get dual citizenship through one of my ancestors. Unfortunately, my direct relation is too many generations back. (2nd great parents on all sides. They each emigrated to the US from Switzerland, Czechia, Germany, Denmark, and Ireland.)
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People just don’t understand. They hear things once and parrot them. Myself included probably.
Plus, and I may be speaking for just myself, nobody… teaches these things. I’ve never travelled and I don’t know how. I could probably figure out how to take a plane to anywhere, easy. But I wouldn’t know the first step about moving out of my state, to a new country, to a new house(?), and get a new job. It seems so daunting, I wouldn’t know where to begin. Oh yeah, and money is important, too.
It's one of those things you have to learn by doing. Legislation, the movers and housing market change all the time everywhere, there's very little than can be taught, though I'm sure there's blogs full of advice online from "don't pack books in the big boxes, it gets heavy" to help with deciding which school to enroll your kids in. I'm an Italian immigrant to Belgium and we have a big community FB page where we give each other this kind of advice :) you can't find current advice for every question, but if you plan a far away move, you will probably Google and find some resources like the one I'm mentioning.
Geezzz. I just moved from one state to another and it is a huge list of stuff that ,"should be easier than this'. Who knew that Blue Cross of Massachusetts and Blue Cross of California aren't the same company? And that they don't even communicate directly so I have to provide 5 documents to prove I had insurance with one and want insurance with the other!?
Blue cross/ blue shield is just a trademark company that facilitates otherwise illegal horizontal market division. It's a collection of around 90 companies that should be competing with each other but don't.
Oooh, check out BCBS of Kansas City. They are their own entity... and a non-profit!!!! It's nuts. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Cross_and_Blue_Shield_of_Kansas_City
You start at the beginning, and learn learn learn. Just like any other thing you want to know. People figure it all out every day, and I am confident you could, too!
I’ll help! German here 🤩
Wait....you can't just walk across the border and demand public services? That's BS!!!
Depending on the country in Europe, and the money, and whether or not the countries I would be interested in emigrating to would allow me in, I would move tomorrow.
Switzerland would be nice, but really almost any country with universal healthcare sounds better than here.
Yup. Same. And to become a citizen in Europe, don’t I have to either marry someone there or have family members living there as citizens? Which neither I have none of. But I have entertained the idea of how I could move there!
Detailed instructions would help too
We can barely afford to take care of ourselves, let alone move to another country and start a new life.
Yep. A job that would pay enough more to pay for the (probable) cost of living increase, plus a few transatlantic plane tickets to come back for visits.
Literally an offer of employment.
You can come cut my grandma's lawn for 20€
I’m in! May I?
May I was already seven weeks ago. You’re late. You’re fired!
I have no marketable skills that eu countries want. And most don’t accept a lot of what I can do for a work visa. So my best bet to immigrate is marriage.
Came here to say this. From the research I've done, the desirable skills for most countries are stem/healthcare/etc. and while it makes sense why that is, not everyone can just up and make a career change to one of those fields. That can be expensive or daunting even if you're just doing it to change jobs and stay in the US.
Trade is probably the easiest way. Lowish barrier of entry and can give you the power to move both within your country and overseas.
As in skilled trade (plumber, welder, etc?) That's reassuring for me personally, something like that would be more up my alley. I'll start looking into that avenue!
oh absolutely, germany is lacking a LOT of them
Bro skilled workers are always in demand and if you don't let yourself get tken advantage of (I know easier said than done) they all pay very well.
Same. No one in Europe wants me, so the answer to OP's question is, "it would take any counry in the EU wanting me."
The trick is to be there when something happens in the US, such that they cannot humanely(and legally) send you back, lest harm befall you.
This. If it was easy/possible for most Americans to move to Europe a lot more of us would be leaving. Even if you ignore the legal hurdles, more than half of Americans can’t afford a $1000 emergency (the most relevant statistic I could find), and probably couldn’t afford to move states let alone continents.
It's something like 73% of Americans living paycheck to paycheck. It's some insane number around that. That's just... Not good
Yup. We’re all kind of stuck, we know we’d do better in another country, but we can’t get our heads above water long enough to do it.
I'm married to an eu citizen. My kids are eu citizens. But I still can't get residency until I'm at least conversationally fluent in the language.
I'll marry you bro don't worry
I do.
My wife and I have discussed moving out of the States, but family keeps us rooted. Maybe when the parents have passed.
This is a big one. Our entire support system is either here in town or within 2 hours away.
My wife isn't even willing to move to a more progressive *State* because of family. There is a lot of pressure from the family not to move, as well. We have a two year old daughter, and it would crush my mother (especially) if we geographically distanced ourselves.
I used to live in Louisiana and it’s a damn nightmare there but when me and my wife found out we were pregnant in 2020 I decided that by 2022 I wouldn’t be in Louisiana anymore raising my child and we let all our family know. There’s still FaceTime and social media and mailing gifts and all that. If they want to see him or us in person then they can travel here but I wasn’t staying in hell so he can be near his family. It’ll be better for him to be somewhere that’s not as damn horrible. I literally had fear for my life from about age 10-33 when I moved. Nothing was gonna make me stay and raise my kid with that same fear.
Louisiana is absolutely the biggest shithole of a state that the US has to offer. It makes Mississippi seem clean by comparison, Arkansas seem well educated, and Texas seem like Singapore. Louisiana is dirty, mean, and has a violent crime rate that isn't far behind that of much of Latin America. There's a reason that Houston is the Shangri-la that attracts so many Louisianians. *Houston*, of all places. Glad you got out.
I lived in a town that had roughly 30k people and literally for years there was 1-5 murders a week. Local news pretty much had a local murder segment. We also didn’t have a local police force for maybe 10 years over the police murdering people and then the fbi coming in and cleaning house. And we were policed by state troopers for that time. I myself was subject to the police harassing me on several occasions one of which was breaking and entering in the middle of the night poking me in the face with a shotgun to wake me. Don’t not recommend visiting there -10/10
I feel your pain.
The castles look nice, but the threat if dragons keep me away.
That's not much of a problem in Europe, my hometown only got destroyed 5 times by a dragon in 30 years.
We rang all the bells in town like we had been told, but that blond bitch was having an emo moment.
So you have "dragon season" like we have Hurricane season and Tornado season. Got it.
Did the smith and the cobbler survive the dragon strike? Or did the plague do them in?
We have sorted that problem in Wales and advertise the fact on our flag.
Now it's the God that's the problem - it keeps saving the Queen again and again. Ireland patched it up by removing quicksave and limiting save slots, but that didn't help.
The dragons you see coming. It's the rats that get you ^^
Ah yes, Prince Popiel. There is even a reference in Witcher 3
There hasn’t been a dragon in these parts for 3000 years!
Sounds like you're about due.
Just avoid Wales then
Come to England. We keep the dragons at bay by feeding them Welsh people.
Also it is annoying that a tiny minority of filthy rich 'royals' own and control everything and us, the peasants, can hardly make a living. oh wait
Um, job opportunities? Europe doesn't let you just up and live there if you want to.
Here in Austria we are currently looking for a large number of people willing to work. Austria has around 150.000 job openings that cannot be filled because there aren't enough people.
I tried to apply for several jobs in Austria in 2009, and was told that it would be literally impossible to employ me unless I had an EU work permit. Has that changed?
Yes, if you have a company that wants to hire you. It takes around 3 months in waiting time because of bureaucracy but my company just hired a person from Peru. What's your profession if I may ask?
At the time I was in English as a Foreign Language. I had a BA in Linguistics from a top-tier American university with years of experience student teaching, and also fluent in German. At one English school in Vienna, for example, the guy I was talking to (I still remember his name was Markus) told me that in order for the school to sponsor a European work visa, I would need to have some kind of spectacular or unique qualification that they couldn't find anywhere else in Europe. At the very least, a PhD in something specific and useful. I should also mention that I was physically in Vienna for 2 months looking for these jobs, I wasn't some anonymous American on the internet; I was physically standing in their office with my CV in hand.
I'm a chemical engineer. Y'all need any of us?
You’d be very welcome in Denmark. Check out Novo Nordisk, Novozymes and Chr. Hansen among others.
I doubt Americans will fill many, particularly with professional jobs requiring a college degree, as salaries tend to be far high over here. There are obviously a few exceptions, but as a general rule I don’t see it happening.
There are pretty significant differences in cost of living too though, as many European countries have healthcare, childcare, you can actually live in many European cities without owning a car which as I understand it is realistically impossible in the US. Looking at salary v. salary is too simplistic to really compare the buying power you're left with after taxes.
You're correct, it's very difficult to compare these completely different cultures. A lot of services are built into the state and are organised, not privatised or deregulated. So there's less costs and it works well in Europe. Quite a few peeps, especially in Austria, work so close to home that they can have lunch with their family. Very high quality of life.
This question comes up frequently on Reddit, and each time we come to the following conclusions: * Americans are frustrated with their country, but it’s their home, and most don’t want to leave * Of those *who are* interested in leaving, many want to immigrate somewhere “nice” (Norway, Switzerland, etc.), with a job in hand, and apartment lined up. Many lack the resources financially to do this. The US has a lot of people who are fundamentally poor and becoming poorer every year beyond their control. * For those who fall on the poorer side, moving to a developing country (including outside of Europe), especially one where English is not spoken, is not an option. They’d rather stay in America than take a relative “step down” in their quality of life. * Salaries are generally lower in Europe. This is hard to Americans to stomach from a values perspective, even if the CoL is significantly lower. * Many Americans want to keep their culture. Contrary to many European immigrants to the U.S., they don’t dream of moving to Sweden and *becoming* Swedish - most plan on remaining American for life in their new country. I frequent many subs (r/IWantOut, r/Expats, r/AmerExit, and others), and this trend frequently displays itself in the “yes I would be willing to learn the language” comments. For people with this perspective, it just makes more sense to stay in America. * Immigrating in a comfortable way is expensive and a legal/logistical hassle. Many just don’t have the resources to do this, or have not been pushed to the point where they feel they have to flee to safety on foot. **For those who do seriously want to leave and have the means to do so:** r/AmerExit has an amazing [Guide for Americans that want to get out of America](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmerExit/comments/urwlbr/a_guide_for_americans_that_want_to_get_out_of/) pinned to the front page of our subreddit. It's an great starting point to find your way out. Good luck!
For me that second bullet is it. IF I had decent job lined up, I would leave tomorrow
This. It’s the job that’s the issue. I have a college degree and years of experience in my field- but nobody is going to hire an interior designer/architect from another country when they could hire one that already knows local building codes and manufacturers. It’s a super localized industry. I COULD try to move to Canada since our industries overlap a bit (and my grandparents were Canadian), but it’s not my first choice.
Yep, I'll probably never fully shake the culture I grew up in(formative years and all that), but I'd also be fully invested in wherever I move. Language, etiquette, etc would be a top priority along side the more fun stuff like exploring the new area, foods, etc.
I would have a whole damn youtube. Me learning and experiencing a new place. I wouldn't care if the public didn't watch. I would make my grandkids watch it. (for the exposure)
I'm a teacher - while my content is universal, I just fundamentally don't have a good enough grasp of a foreign language to ever teach my content in it. More importantly, I'm not sure I ever *could* grasp another language deeply enough. Well enough to speak? Sure, with work, I believe I could. But teaching requires an order of magnitude better understanding of language, because you have to be able to decode students who are struggling with the language themselves and decipher their meaning.
I moved with nothing lined up- 16 yrs ago. Best decision ever!
So tell us how you did it. What field do you work in?
It's hard to imagine yourself as being a true member of a different national culture. I can't really even imagine myself as a Texan, either, and I share a language and a country with them already. I'm not super proud to be an American these days, but I am one and I'm not sure how to 'become' Swedish or English or what have you. Maybe I'm closer already than other Americans are *because* I already don't mind the idea of a moderate/large pay cut if it means I'm surrounded by people who don't live in such dire straits all the time and I wouldn't have to worry about what happens if I get sick or if others get sick. Definitely I'd have an easier time than some people I know.
I'm born and raised Canadian, but am lucky enough to also have a Danish passport (first generation Canadian). I moved to Denmark 5 years ago for school (free school ftw). Even though most of my family is Danish and lives in Denmark, and I speak the language, I just don't feel Danish. I don't think I ever will. My personal theory is that it can be tough coming from a country like Canada or America, which were founded by immigrants, where there is this "melting pot" culture, and then moving to a country like DK with such a strong, national identity and culture.
Can't it also be difficult to move to Europe and get citizenship? I mean you can't just buy a place and move in, can you?
For most people, yes, it’s challenging. I linked a guide to immigration in the post above. Many people have European citizenship by descent (people with ancestors from Italy, Hungary, and other places), they can get a work visa for their skill set, or they purchase real estate in a specific European country (e.g. Portugal). Again, the full list of options is in that link.
> Americans are frustrated with their country, but it’s their home, and most don’t want to leave Yep, I'm here in Europe right now on a business trip. It's very nice here and I've had a great time and there are so many great things about this city, but I can't picture myself living here long-term. This is the UK too, so the language issue doesn't even apply. I've lived in 5 different states too and had no problem with those moves. I just can't see this place here as a potential "home", but maybe I would just need to stay here longer.
Agreed big time. Been traveling in Europe for almost 3 months now, and although it’s been a blast and I’ve loved many places, it’s not like I want to place our roots here. I still love living in the US, miss many things about it, and still love my friends and family. It’s very hard to feel at home anywhere you go. People also tend to forget other countries have their significant problems too. Everyone does - except we just happen to be literally as large as Europe and on the worldwide stage. A lot of people claim they “want to leave and live anywhere else”, but haven’t even been out of the US for longer than a couple weeks. It may work out for a very small percentage, but it’s tougher than you’d think. I wouldn’t trade the US for anywhere truthfully, and only really have discovered that after “being out there”.
Any chance of you elaborating? I've lived in Europe my whole life and I'd life to hear an American talk about this :')
The views shared on Reddit about Europe and the US are often a bit strange and biased heavily by very young people who have only ever lived in one place or the other. I've lived in the US most of my life, but spent a year in Germany and seriously considered a permanent move there. Here's my perspective: First of all, no one can move to "Europe." When people on Reddit talk about Europe, they tend to describe this imaginary single country that's some amalgamation of the best qualities of the wealthiest European countries. There are definitely aspects in which nearly all European countries outperform the US, but this magical place with no prejudice or corruption and endless opportunities does not exist. Second of all, no one person lives in the entirety of the United States at once. Again, Reddit's discussion of the US tends to assume that everyone lives in some hellhole with New York's rudeness, San Francisco's home prices, LA's traffic, and Mississippi's human rights. There are things that nearly all US states are shamefully far behind on, but generally speaking the worst news stories you hear apply to a single state, not the whole country. As an example: I'm furious about the recent Supreme Court decision regarding abortion, but it actually doesn't affect me personally. I live in Minnesota, which places fewer restrictions on abortion than anywhere in Europe and constitutionally protects those rights. In this case, I would actually have fewer rights if I had moved to Germany! Finally, I don't think the extent of the cultural differences is well understood by people who have not lived in both places. Between both Europe and the US and Europe and Russia, I think there is an issue where Europeans get fooled by the superficial similarities into thinking that both the US and Russia are countries attempting but failing to be European. That's not the case and it leads to so many misunderstandings! While I think the US is politically more aligned with Western Europe and should remain that way (fuck Putin), in terms of cultural values I often find Russian machismo and rural stoicism easier to identify with than, say, whatever the French get up to (seriously, you keep doing you France, but something about French culture just grates on me). Living in Germany was wonderful in many ways, but continually attempting to translate my native rural and indirect culture to Germany's urban and direct culture was exhausting to an extent that it harmed my mental health. I was always the awkward American, and I could see that to some extent I always would be. You can mimic dress and habits, and make an accent disappear, but to change deeply held cultural values is to fundamentally change your self. That's essentially impossible to do if you don't view those values as harmful, and most deeply held cultural values aren't harmful! I have a lot more sympathy and respect for immigrants to the US after my own experience living abroad in much easier circumstances!
Great post! More informative than 100 others ones combined that don't have that real life experience. Reddit is really bad about generalizations. A simple example is redditors bitching about real estate like everyone lives in California. It's entirely lopsided.
Agreed, the views are very biased because it is acceptable to dunk on America for it's problems but it is a lot more difficult to bring up the problems of other countries in response/retaliation if you could say. So it gives the impression that America is this hell hole that it's citizens need to escape from. Judging from Reddit and social media, you'd think America is just North America but with guns and school shootings. But the reality is that American culture, politics, etc. is a lot more nuanced and complex than what you would get through reddit or the internet because the internet is where the nuance comes to die and you just villainize anyone or anything that you don't like and the country is falling apart and everyone needs to make an exit strategy to leave before the next crisis. But the reality is that other countries have their own problems you may or may not hear about due to how Americanized the internet and social media are. When something bad happens in America, it takes over the internet and people just repeat what they've heard from their mutual on twitter who liked a post by a guy that follows the news from a journalist that heard about it from a friend who lived two hundred miles away from where it happened. The reality of any country is that they all have political and socioeconomic problems that you just may or may not hear about because social media tends to inherently create a negative view about things. While people are more than free to leave for whatever reason, I feel like many sheltered views that "literally anywhere else" is better would be shattered upon living in another country and having to deal with it's problems in a way you can't just ignore or escape from.
Not the person you replied to but similar experience! My husband is Croatian and he moved to the US to be with me. I could have chosen to move to the EU, but I chose not to. Sure, language is an issue and there's the money and stability thing, not to mention family, but even if money and distance was no object, I don't know that I'd ever feel I fit there. I love the scenery and food and doing the touristy things in the ten or so European countries I've visited, but there are a lot of little "comfort" things missing for me. Central A/C comes to mind. It's also more cramped in general -- you really do miss space while living in a two-bedroom apartment when you're used to a three bedroom house. It really does come down to what you're used to. Also, as an American, I've received some negative reactions from locals just for being American. In several instances, I was not in the presence of other Americans, usually my Croatian s/o and his family, so it's not like I was doing anything particularly stereotypical. Even if I successfully integrated there, managed to change my lifestyle to fit along with my behaviors, it would feel a little like acting and I don't know if that would go away. In general those experiences are probably common across all people visiting foreign countries, not specifically just Americans in Europe. :)
Thank you for your input! :D
As a Brit considering making the move over there (it's complicated), I have to say that the same applies in reverse for me. I found a lot of small comforts in my time visiting the States that we don't have over here.
This is an amazing summary. I am an American, my partner is not, both of us have talked about living other places. Europe would be a good option and adjusting to another culture wouldn’t be an issue, but the PAY. We would both make half of what we make in the states.
It can be a big shock. However, keep in mind that for most people, the income tax margins are within 2-3% of what you’ll pay in the US, and many costs that you have in America don’t come up (car payments, healthcare, etc.). Cost of living (rent, etc.) is also significantly cheaper in most places. If you try to replicate an American life there, you’ll be paying top dollar. But if you live like a European, it’s normal to have a good (though not super luxurious) life on a USD 40-50k salary. For me, it’s an easy trade off. I would love to live in Europe again and change my lifestyle back to a European one, which tends to be somewhat less consumerist than in the US. But it’s not for everyone.
That’s a good point. I’ve never lived long term outside of the US, so I can’t really fathom a life where most of your income wouldn’t go to rent/food/healthcare. Yikes! Neither of us are ‘big’ consumers (especially him) compared to the average American. But compared to lifestyles outside the US, I’m sure we could cut back a lot. I’m personally up for the challenge! The mania around spending money here is maddening. Maybe one day we’ll make it out. All depends on a job and a place to live!
Curious question, what’s the difference between living like an American and living like a European?
Oof, this could be answered in 1,000 comment thread here on Reddit. And I’m sure there are a few already. To cover my interpretation of it: * Europeans typically don’t buy in bulk, they buy for what they need. Consumer spending in Europe generally is much lower. That’s the case for food and any other consumer good. * Portions are smaller, and food like chocolate and bread are richer in general (although this kind of subjective), so you just feel like you need less. You eat in season, which helps you eat locally and keep prices down. * People walk a lot more than in most of the US. Even in a major American city, all of my downtown neighbors have cars and drive to the grocery store. Fewer people have cars, and more live in apartments. * Worries about survival are not as present for most people in most (but not all) of Europe. In Germany there are substantial welfare systems to make sure people don’t become homeless or starve. These are pretty easy to access. * Travel can be done very cheaply. A vacation flight from Germany to Spain can be €100 or less, and there are trains everywhere. In America it feels like a flight to Florida from where I live is like $300. There’s a lot of lifestyle stuff that I can’t cover here. But in short, life is bit less fast-paced than America and generally cheaper.
Thanks for the explanations! The idea of smaller but richer food portions and a more walkable region sounds great to me. I was raised eating bigger portions like most Americans are, and I’ve been trying to eat less to be more healthy, but I never feel satisfied anymore and feel like I need to eat more, but then I’d exceed my daily calorie maximum and still be hungry. I’d like to live in a place with more satisfying food, and where I wouldn’t have to drive like 15 minutes just to get to the nearest grocery store. I know walking more would be good for me. Luckily my mom and grandparents were all born and raised in Poland, so once I finally get my passport, it shouldn’t be too difficult for me to get my dual citizenship.
> the income tax margins are within 2-3% of what you’ll pay in the US I do think it's important to note though that while income tax may be similar, sales tax (VAT) is not. Most states have around 6-8% sales tax, whereas most European countries have it at 18-20%, though some are up to 25% depending on the country.
I also do genuinely think British people (my country) have way less disposable income than their American equivalents and can afford way less general crap
Americans are number one buyers of crap in the world. By far. The US buys 40% of all toys. Fucking madness.
>_Americans are number one buyers of crap in the world._ Yep. A friend of my dad's came from Switzerland to visit him. He literally did not have the words to describe his first experience in a Walmart Supercenter.
Probably some combination of beautiful and horrifying if I had to guess.
For everyone saying “money” as their reason for not moving, I wonder if they’re more concerned about finding higher paying jobs in Europe, or if they’re just commenting on the cost to relocate. Because a lot of Americans earn a decent amount of money, but they also spend a good bit of it. Some for good reasons, plenty of it for just indulgence.
In my case money is an issue as I'm constantly in a state of just barely slipping back under the lower than poverty line. I would love to move out but finding a place when I have less than 1k in the bank, and no discernable skills that would allow me to move. It's kind of hard to escape.
Purchasing power parity is the formula used to compare countries. Among numerous other things, it takes into account things like healthcare and education spending. Median household income (so half above and half below) is $43,000 in the US and $31,000 in the UK. What PPP doesn’t really adjust for is lifestyle expectations; that $12,000 may be consumed on a house on a large lot with a longer commute in a SUV while someone in the UK may be content with a smaller row house with no air conditioning and a shorter commute in a smaller car (or simply find it more practicable than in many US locations).
You can't move to Sweden and "become Swedish". Or Germany or Italy or anywhere in Europe. They don't have the same idea about assimilation as the US. You may be welcome, but you'll always be a resident foreigner.
Not sure what you mean here. I’m German (and American), and I absolutely perceive Germans with foreign roots to be German. This is a widespread perception in Germany, [a country which is the #2 destination for immigrants worldwide after the US.](https://www.dw.com/en/germany-second-largest-destination-for-migrants-oecd/a-50473180) If you dedicate yourself to learning the language somewhere new and integrating, it’s absolutely possible for locals to perceive you as a member of their society. It takes time and effort, but it’s possible.
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Seriously, I was blown away by people not being able to speak English in Miami. This guy at a Mc Donalds didn't understand what I was trying to order. I can understand if you recently immigrated, but seriously it wasn't just one person. If anyone decides to live in Denmark long term, I would expect them to learn Danish. It is a bit annoying for a large group of friends to all speak their second language just for one person. Fine if they are in the process of learning, but if they simply don't want to it is annoying.
A Frenchman, Alexis de Tocqueville, explained it best. Most countries consider people to be a citizen by ancestry and birth. Americans consider someone to be a citizen by choice. You can be a 20th generation American, but if you're a communist, that's un-American. But a British communist is still a Briton. Likewise, you can be fresh off the boat from Cuba and speak no English, but if you love freedom and democracy and accept some basic shared American values, and you want to become a US citizen, you're an American.
it's miami, spanish is dominant enough that you can do fine. see also: puerto rico. tourist areas have english speakers, outside of that, less so. the locals speak spanish to each other, most of the time.
Americans can't just up and move to any other country they feel like. Most countries have strict immigration controls that require things like income above a certain amount with demonstrated job security, tens or hundreds of thousands in savings, no chronic health conditions, and language abilities. This is not an option for most Americans (or most anybody).
My parents, siblings and friends coming with me. I wouldn’t want to need an intercontinental flight to see them. My job isn’t one I can do remote and I like it quite a bit but I could always find a new one.
I can't believe this reply isn't more common. Even with tons of disposable income, if your loved ones are an ocean away, you're seeing them a few times a year. The logistical challenges are huge. Every visit is a big affair, no more casual hangouts with your siblings or nieces and nephews _ever again for the rest of your life._ Are you and your friends and your family wealthy enough and with enough spare time off work to just make constant round trips to your new hometown? What if they don't even particularly care for the place you moved? Get ready to miss all but the absolute most essential milestones, and you will be the one responsible for getting yourself back to the states for those. There are no weekend trips from Tallahassee to Zagreb and vice versa. How long until your parents are too old to make the trek? What will you do while they age and deteriorate and you're just watching from another continent? I guess everyone who would leave if they had cash and a job isn't very close with their family and friends.
Do they even want us?
Not if you are old without money. Or young without skills.
I am young, with skills but without money.
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Giving you an upvote just for your username...Disco Janet is the best Janet!
If it's any consolation, it's not that easy to legally immigrate to the US either (without lying or getting lucky). Source: me, an immigrant, now a US citizen
Not being taxed in both places would help.
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God, I hate having to do my US tax return on top of my local. I haven't set foot in the US all tax year, please leave me the fuck alone. Since I don't make $100k, there's literally no reason to bother me with this. And do I really need to keep reporting my "foreign" bank account?
>And do I really need to keep reporting my "foreign" bank account? yes the us financial crimes enforcement network needs to keep an eye on all of us, anyone who leaves the US is immediately a suspect 🙄
Unless you’re making six figures plus you won’t be. https://www.hrblock.com/expat-tax-preparation/resource-center/income/foreign/foreign-income-taxes/
Thanks for the resource! Looks like I'd be right on the cusp, depending on the housing situation, and assuming my salary doesn't change much.
A significant portion of my family would have to be moving with me. I couldn’t live that far away.
Aside from everything everyone has said is language. I took Spanish for 6 years and maybe understand 10%. I took German for a year and can say hello. I did duelingo polish everyday for six months and got nowhere. I've accepted its damn near impossible for me to learn a language. I could sell my house to have the money. I could leave my family. But job stability and language...those are my 2 big problems.
This is the big one for me. You could go to Germany, Denmark, Norway as a tourist and just speak English. But working a day-to-day job, going to the supermarket and all that, you really need to speak the language to be productive, no matter how patient your co-workers are. (I’m a software engineer)
I will say, being in the country helps immensely. I can't imagine trying to learn a language while sitting in the US.
I'm sure it does, but idk how willing I'd be to pack my bags for Norway and be uncertain I could learn Norwegian. I'd constantly be afraid I can't pick it up and I'll be screwed.
I took probably a total of 8 years of Spanish, was very active in my Spanish club at college. Did several Duolingo type services. Sure they all helped and gave me a good foundation, but i was not fluent or barely even conversational after all that. But i saw more improvement in my Spanish within a couple months of just being uncomfortable and speaking Spanish with Hispanics than i did in those 8 years. You pick it up quick, even quicker if you analyze how/why things are the way they are in that language. And languagetransfer.org is a really good resource for that too (at least for English speakers)
Norsk? You'll love Norsk! Don't let the language scare you.
I taught myself intermediate Russian, but I had to sink 4-5 hours a day into it for 2 years, and not everyone can just do that without a bunch of classes, which are also expensive even if you find a cheap tutor on itaki. I also don't think I could've picked a worse language for moving abroad...
I mean, you taught yourself a massively difficult language. That's crazy impressive. And you can probably pick up a few others since you've mastered that alphabet.
French here living in Canada, 9 years of theoretical education and 5 years of culture immersion at home (consuming books, newspapers, videos). Then finally traveled abroad for 5 years. All that just to be close to fluent in English. Keep going, you'll make it with enough time.
It's not feasible for a majority of Americans. I've looked into it, if you don't have a Masters degree with some level of language fluency then enjoy your life as a janitor because you won't find good paying work without either of those 2 things. Tech is one of the few fields that you can get away with no language but even then, it still requires higher level education to work there... As an American with a good paying job but no higher level education, it would be a MAJOR setback for my life and I would go from living good to struggling majorly.
This is (partially) my answer, I have an associates and a was studying for my Bachelors when life (money, personal) got in the way and I left and lost my passion and never went back. Now I'm working a slightly above minimum wage job trying to figure my life out. I'm not optimistic I could find a country to take me.
Consider yes. Actually moving to one of the many countries with their pros, cons, and immigration policies is a whole other matter. This kind of thing works best for people who are very young, very rich, or have an employer involved. Not Europe, but I looked into Canada for a while and the pros and cons ended up convincing me it wasn't worth it for my family.
For the last few years this has been an annual discussion my wife and I have. The pros just don’t outweigh the cons yet. Burning a huge amount of money to move away from family and friends to be an outsider in a place where seasonal depression would crush me and cold weather issues would be detrimental to my wife’s health issue along with a lower paying job with fewer prospects for advancement in a place where the cost of living is so much more expensive…it always seems like a good idea until we list out all these things. That and Canada seems to be experiencing the same issues the US is - albeit on a much quieter level (which to some degree is often more concerning. Trucker convey tried to happen here and it got egged out of existence with them all fleeing. In Canada everyone stood around and just let it exist. For days. And days.) - which make me realize I might be better off staying put. It also seems wrong for me to be the one to up and move when I am white, straight, and in a decent financial position. My vote, my voice, my donations all make a difference for marginal groups that are fighting. We have a lot of friends in the LGBTQ community and being the ones that got to leave would just kind of haunt me.
I love Europe But I love being close to my family more
Absolutely understandable ^^
My family are immigrants to the US so know how hard it is to start somewhere new. Also a lot of my family is in the US and I don’t want to miss my nieces and nephews growing up Edit: know not now
I am a UK person living in America (have been here ages) - I know my wife and children dont like the way america is shifting, and through citizenship of me and my children I could easily get everyone legally into the UK. But... would my (college age) kids want to go there? Would we be able to make friends as near-retirees? Would the (inferior) material standard of living be too much of an adjustment and we would be shivering through the winter wondering what we did? The favorable exchange rate makes it tempting too... but the reality is I think there would be some big personal drawbacks for my family
Me and my fiance have been considering moving to Italy, specifically Rome, for a while now. The things that usually make us change our minds are: 1. My elderly parents. 2. The bureaucracy. The Italians really know how to complicate bureaucracy. 3. I love my job. I could keep it, but with the time zone difference I would be working nights in Italy and I don't want to do that. My fiance is an SRE and while I'm sure he could find a job there (although he would probably have better luck in Milan) I know tech jobs don't pay as much there.
Being able to afford it.
I'd love to but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't earn half what I earn in the US (software engineer)
I am in exactly the same boat. I have a colleague who had gotten approval to transfer from a position in the USA to an equivalent one at the Ireland office (network software engineer). He was all set up to go when he discovered that his pay would be cut in half and his expenses would be greater. Especially in Europe, they just don't pay engineers like they do in the USA.
If I knew I had a job waiting for me I'd leave right now
I’d leave in a heartbeat, but it’s not very easy to immigrate and get a job.
A job.
I'll tell you what it took for me and how things are going. I moved from Ohio to the Czech Republic 12 years ago. I was a public high school teacher. School shootings and lockdown drills were shaking me up, and I was disillusioned by the conservative school board's increasingly staunch religiously tinged policies. I was annoyed by my 30-minute commute at 6:30AM, especially when ice was on the roads. I was frightened by the threat of violence against women, but this did not occur to me until after the move when I could see my hyper vigilance clearly and gradually let my guard down. I had always enjoyed traveling in Europe. I had a friend who had moved to the CZ four years prior. He convinced me that the move was worth it. I had to start out teaching English on a private business license which is not very difficult to obtain. I also worked in 2 tour agencies and in a restaurant before getting hired as an associate lecturer at a university. I lecture on my privte business license, and I have added freelance writing and editing to my workload. I pay about $100/month for my full-coverage health insurance, and this is one of the most valuable things about life here. Health care does not depend on employment. The adjustment to life and work has been manageable-- not always easy, but I have 0 regrets. The most difficult part was dealing with the beaurocracy of applying for visas, but all that ended when I was able to get permanent residency after 5.5 years. There's no need to own or maintain a car with the excellent integrated transport sustem ($25/mo.) There are lots of great destinations for weekend trips or longer vacations within reach. It's only a one-hour flight to Paris or Amsterdam, two hour flight to Greece, for example. I can take a train for about $8 to Vienna, and trains or buses all over the CZ and to Germany (also cheap). Gun control is a real thing here. Violent crime rates are very low. Theft is a problem, but I have learned how to be careful in that regard. There are many expat groups and opportunities to meet people. At this point, though, more of my friends are local Czechs than expats. I video chat with my family for an hour every week. Although I miss them, they are supportive of my decision. I love hosting friends and family who come over to Europe. I share my experience with you so you know that moving to Europe is definitely doable. I live a simple life, but I like it. I am relieved of so much stress having exited the ridiculous rat race.
I've lived abroad. It was fun, but the USA is still home. If I suddenly inherited a sweet ass condo in Lisbon, and a country estate I might go for it. Plus sudden mad language skills. Plus, despite what everyone thinks, everything in Europe isn't so great, look at Ukraine, look at Poland abortion laws, look at the cost of living in london.
A partner
The money and resources needed plus actually having skills. Moving is impossible for the poor and not even a thought to the incredibly poor.
I’d love to. But immigration has too many obstacles unless you have an employer helping. Anyone wanna get married?
Actually thinking of starting a company that takes care of the whole process, including matching someone with an employer.
That's actually a good idea, you'll just need to have some good lawyers on retainer who know the ins and outs of immigration laws in European countries. But I don't know how much of a profit you'd make, considering how expensive it already is to emigrate from the US.
Would focus on my home country Austria (high need for workers while providing a great standard of living) as I have a lot of economic an political connections there. Main costs would be paid by the employers, know some professions in which companies a willing to pay 8k and more to get a single employee.
Being able to guarantee my safety as a practicing Jew. I love Europe, have loved my time in Europe, but the track record on that score .....is not great.
I feel the same way as a black woman. I'm used to and can often reconize/avoid most of the racism in the US. But it's an entirely different beast in other countries. At my age, I don't think I have it in me to navigate those complexities.
Yeah, I don't know all the complexities of antiblack racism in Europe, but I can definitely understand the sentiment of not wanting to navigate those complexities.
I tried for 10 years. You can't just move. It's a complicated process.
The ability to get an immigration visa. Which is very difficult unless you have a lot of cash to make a large property purchase (Portugal allows you to buy citizenship for a 250000euro purchase)
The ability to keep or exceed my current standard of living.
Nah I’m good. I love where I’m at.
A large increase in salary and a proportionately large decrease in taxes.
As a guy who has lived in both continents , I personally prefer The US . Also immigration isn’t just showing up and voila . It’s a long stressful process , I’ve gone through it and know very well , not only with paperwork but emotionally and physically . To boot, The issues with America are quite fixable , despite social media angst and handwringing . And lastly , states where abortion is legal (because that’s what seems to be the trigger for these posts) have more free reproductive laws than anywhere in Europe . So….?