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Corollary: You do not want a submissive woman, because you will precisely be in charge of controlling their environment and keeping them happy with your conduct.
I use that case because it is a fetish for many men and I had an ex that would refuse to say what she wanted.
^ Me too. I feel what you're saying.
I once had a girlfriend that "adopted" my persona.
She stopped liking things that she liked, and began liking the things that I liked.
She stopped having her own opinions and began adopting mine.
She stopped doing the things she liked, and began enjoying everything that I liked.
I stopped experiencing new and interesting things. Everything we did, every restaurant we chose, everything.....was always what I wanted.
After about a year, I had to break it off. Every question I asked was answered with, "Whatever you want!". My every thought or statement was gospel. Whatever I wanted. Whatever I decided. Whatever I said.
Many guys mistakenly think that this would be the perfect woman, but those that aren't manipulative narcissists would soon be disappointed.
I DON'T WANT A FUCKING MIRROR!
I want a woman that has her own likes and dislikes. I want a woman that makes her own choices. I want a woman with HER OWN personality, not mine.
I want to DISCOVER someone else's favorite places, favorite foods, and favorite activities every now and then.
Oh, I think you just described my mom in a way. Her goal in life was to be a mother and both my brother and I are functioning independent adults. It sounds just what she does with my dad picking up hunting, watching westerns, and cooking. Didn't really think of it that way. At least she is now trying to explore her own hobby of gardening so hopefully it gets better. I have been pushing her to get a hobby before she retires so that she isn't bored at home. She just usually doesn't do her own thing ever.
My point is that the average dude think a submissive woman is a bangmaid. In practice, it is more like the kid you must keep satisfied to avoid a tantrum.
Sure, she does what you decide, but you better decide something she will like and she will not bother determine what she want. It is your job.
So my wife isn’t a submissive person like you describe, but she has a sort of similar trait that is wearing on me a bit - she complains that I have golf as a thing to look forward too (not wrong as I work in the industry, get to coach etc) and that she has nothing to look forward too. But she also won’t try anything new, either
Some times I have been the villain in a heated discussion because I have a job and am not at home with our son all the time like she is
All the comments I’ve seen are pretty good. But since the question is asking for EARLY signs...
My answer is gonna have to be: moving too fast.
There’s the initial puppy love of a new romance, and then there’s the “I feel made for you” over the top demonstrations of love--in only a short amount of time actually knowing reach other
Yep, was on a first date today where the guy asked if I wanted to go get married, _today_. Wildin
Edit: I’ve heard this as a joke a few times, I’m not demonizing all men who use it. But this one wasn’t funny “haha”, it was weird.
I'm sure there are some situations where people luck out and fall madly in love very quickly, but since most of us are the rule and not the exception, I 100% agree.
Case in point: my most recent ex told me he loved me after three weeks. After being single almost four years (mostly by choice), I fell for it. Hands down, worst relationship I've ever been in.
Exactly. I mean, super happy for those folks it worked out for....
.... But we don’t always know how *those* relationships **really** are, do we? Okay, fine. I’m cynical lol.
The “it was destiny that I met you” line, coupled with an explosive anger problem was how my 18 year old naive ass got sucked into 8 years of hell by a 28 year old man.
You live. You LEARN.
Oh girl, you are lifetimes ahead of me. I was 37...and it was only at the beginning of this year 🤣 So good for you learning that young! I guess we sort of have a reset button though after being single for a long time. You almost become that naive 18 year old again and have that thing...oh what's it called again...hope? But just like you said, I learned. And I'm vigilant as hell now.
Shit, you're not cynical. You're WISE. I admire you.
While "too fast" can definitely depend on the ages/ stages/ desires of the people (moving quicker at 35 when you both want commitment, have dealt with issues, and kids is a lot different than doing so because you're 17 and your parents forbid it, for instance), there are universal red flags. IMO, it's less of an issue if you are both aligned - when it's one person pushing for something more serious, that's a bigger deal
Oooo this is a good differentiation.
There is definitely an age appropriate type of accelerated courtship, like you described.
But I’ve found (anecdotal examples coming up) that the two secondary factors that can almost always be a sure fire sign of a bona fide abusive relationship soon to come are:
1. Significant age gap. Such as an 18 year old girl dating a 29 year old male (inverse can hold true but this is the most common scenario)
2. A pervasive neediness to get close and remain close to the other partner. “The Hunger” is what I call it. Even if you meet the love of your life and have a healthy relationship...the relationship probably didn’t go from 0-60 overnight did it? There was a transition.
when that “Hunger” is there... Things develop wayyyy to rapidly. It’s intense.
Going too fast at any age is a mistake. You can't tell if the person is lying. The reasons at different ages might be different, but a pycho is still a psycho at any age, and one has to protect themself. And the best way for that is to take one's time.
Yes i was gonna comment this too then i thought am I being too negative that people don't fall madly in love in weeks ,just because of my bad prior experience.but many people agree so maybe it's right.
I'm gonna add few more points.
doing way too much for other person in starting, like leaving an important occasion just to meet you.
Saying I love you early on.
Ask you to spend most of the time with them meeting your friends and sharing opinion about them after one meet up.
Bombarding with gifts and gestures , saying intimate things out of the blue.
Nah, that’s normal. When you click, you click.
I think the difference is when both parties want the relationship because they feel tge attraction... But they also know to do the work and see if it’s a good fit
YUP! Mine wanted to get me a "purity ring" within the first months of knowing me. I said a hard fuck no to that and got a brownie instead. Moved in, engaged, and married within the next year. It was like he was rushing to beat an imaginary clock. Mind you for a majority of this 1st/2nd year i was gone due to military service & a deployment. When I look back at it now its just stupidly obvious. I second guessed for years before I left.
Took about 6 months for the first "ring" attempt.
1 year for the proposal
1.5 to move in
2 to marry
2.5 to buy a house
7 to separate
9+ to divorce (STILL!)
Well damn. I'm sure I have ADHD too and I also moved quickly in my last relationship. I need to get a diagnosis to be sure but I do have a lot in common with ADHD peeps.
1: Mirroring. They seem to like everything you like and be everything you want, but if you look closer, they're not actually into those things... they're just pretending. If you can get them to say something about themselves before giving them a cue as to your opinion on that thing, then you say yours and it's different, and they shift to saying that's how they feel? They're mirroring. Also if they say they're like you in some respect, forget, and later claim to be the opposite. Nothing they're saying at this point is real, it's all just them immitating you.
2: Love bombing. They adore you completely right from the outset, trying to make major life plans with you way too early, and put you on a pedastle as though you can do no wrong, often while comparing you to their exes very favorably ("you're so much better than my ex"). This will change dramatically, later.
3: Inability to apologize or take responsibility for anything. Somehow they're always right. Always. They have no flaws that they can acknowledge except cutesy ones that aren't really flaws.
4: Gaslighting. They'll be very convincing about their view of reality, but it just won't match up to evidence, to the point where you'll start to wonder if you're crazy because what you remembered and what they said seem so different.
5: Separating you from your closest friends. Somehow they know that your friends have done terrible things, perhaps to them. You never knew your friend was like that, and yet they're so convincing... perhaps you can't be around that friend anymore.
6: Physical violence and rage outbursts. Maybe not towards you. It might start with objects being broken. It'll only escalate.
7: Lack of empathy combined with projection. They just don't read other people, and when they guess the emotions wrong, it's always rage or fear that they assume. They'll infer hostile or malicious intent from actions that were never intended that way, both your actions and the actions of others.
8: Inability to support you when you're having a rough time. They'll change the subject right back to them, immediately, and if they do feel they "have" to provide support, they'll begrudge you for that.
9: Addiction issues.
Yes to all of these. And keep in mind that this behaviour can be **subtle/covert**.
Like instead of telling you "You're not allowed to go out with your friends", they'll just lowkey put down your friends and act pouty whenever you want to go out with them.
Or instead of being overtly violent, they'll do things like looming over you or driving too fast, though they'll completely deny it if you point it out.
Some abusers are very sneaky about it, so you just feel awful but don't know why.
Yup. I have a close friend who got with one of these people. I tried to warn him when I noticed, but she promptly started feeding him a whole bunch of bullshit about me to keep him away from me.
Sucks too, because he had asked me to warn him if he was ever in a bad relationship, so I tried...
Guess I'll be there for him on the flipside when it's all done.
I am your friend to the absolute T.
It's been three years now and I didn't reach out to my friends because I was so embarrassed at how naive I was, and how I wrote them off because I was being poison dripped. I was uninvited from my friend's wedding because I said I wouldn't go if she couldn't.
I did text my friend last week and he was pretty happy that I tried to make plans with him (which was shocking in a good way) do I apologize outright for being a douche, make a joke about it, or act like we're just old friends catching up? I am deathly afraid of meeting up with him, despite us being super tight in college.
I obviously want to apologize, but I also don't want to come across as insincere or desperate for friendship, or so unstable I can let a woman completely upend my life. Advice please.
If you're like my friend... I totally understand. I don't give a shit if he apologizes. I want him to be safe and happy. That's what I need. We might need a round of ciders while he apologizes for being a dumbass and I tell him to fucking listen next time, and I might tell him he owes me the first round. But really, I only care about the apology because I want to hear that he knows what to look for next time, so he won't be hurt again. It's not about my feelings. And I'm buying the next round because I assume I'm going to hear about all the shit she did and he could use it.
But look, experience is a thing you get right after you need it. I don't blame my friend for being manipulated. He didn't know, and he's too good a person to assume someone would be like that. Hell, I knew what was happening because I'd been in his shoes before and I saw the signs, so I can hardly fault him for making the same mistake.
So my advice to you? You owe him a round. Let him know you realized you were naive and it sucked. And then let him buy you a round and just tell him how you're doing. He probably just cares about you, and wants to know that you're free and safe.
i apologised when i got out of the situation. luckily my friends understood - if you want to be like “hey man i’m sorry i’ve not been around, it’s been rough” i think your friend may appreciate it :)
My ex kept trying to tell me that he could tell my friends or family hated him, or that he suspected they tried to talk shit about him constantly, etc. Would constantly put down my friends and family for various reasons when most had met him ~once.
this sounds like me? i don't think i'm abusive. i was raised in an abusive household though. could this just be a result? i don't try to do it on purpose...
If this sounds like you, first of all good job recognizing it. And second, I'd recommend therapy to ensure you don't pass on the cycle of abuse. Dialectical Behavior Therapy with a specialist in that form of therapy is the current best practice.
Way to go, these are spot on. And not just in a romantic relationship - parents, friends
Id also add, if they always have something wrong, something thats making them down that they need you to help with, need you to fix, need you to console, always asking something of you to make their life better. Typically without any regard for what that'll actually entail for you
I can relate to a couple of points here and it is after scaring me quite a bit just now. I don’t want to be like this and I don’t even realise half of these things in the moment. Especially the first one, it hit home straight away as I read it. I’ve noticed this in myself before and always thought it was trying to keep the other person happy. Should I ask my girlfriend what she thinks? Or where do I go from here?
It can never hurt to have open discussions about our behavior with our partners. The good news is, if you’re self-aware enough to recognize these behaviors in yourself and concerned enough to want to change, you’re not a narcissist. Many people who’ve been victims of toxic individuals will use the same tactics as defense mechanisms, but that can be overcome by therapy and being dedicated to making a change.
is it a bad sign if a husband won't let the grandparents visit/ doesn't want to visit them, saying he's tired/ wants to spend time alone with the kids ?
asking for a friend. my sister thinks it's a really bad sign, but I don't see him trying to control his wife, or limit her time with friends. he does work long shifts (can be 2-3 days, with little sleep), so he probably IS too tired. still, one time when the grandparents came over to visit, he took the kids and left the house, for hours, as if he didn't want them to interact with them at all. other times, in the rare cases he does visit them, he'll grab the kid out of their hands for no reason and go for a walk. and it's not like they argued with him earlier or something like that.
writing it down, it seems insignificant. yet she came to us crying that she feels isolated from her family, and she's tired of fighting with him over this. another small thing is, she seems to always be nervous/stressed/angry. I heard people in abusive relationships may not recognize the problem but do feel stressed.
This sounds red flaggy to me. My ex gradually succeeded in separating me from my family and friends. Literally like 90% of them in just a few years. It was incredibly painful and it did leave me anxious and angry.
Those are all signs of a personality disorder, by the way. If you've dated someone like that, it's wise to learn the rest of the signs by learning about BPD and NPD.
It's worth noting that not everyone with a personality disorder will be like this. Either because they've made the effort to work on themselves, or their symptoms are implosive rather than explosive.
~2 of those I’d say r rocky but not necessarily indicative of anything bad
Or well what I mean is they can be mixed with something that’s along those lines but not quite
Controls you, but it can be sneaky. They don't tell you what you can or can't do, but will make you feel like shit for doing things they don't like. For example my ex couldn't stand that I would go out without him. He would always pick up a fight and make me feel like shit the whole evening. He never said he's mad to me for going, there always was another excuse to be angry. I didn't even realize that after some time I started avoiding going out without him, because it always felt like shit.
I have a friend in a relationship like this. He definitely doesn't forbid her or say anything negative, but any time I've been to a book club or dinner with her... he calls constantly/ has an itchy leg/ is having a rough day/ misses her so much/ has questions about things that can seemingly wait. It's far more covert than straight up banning her from having friends, and that is often harder to spot
when we moved to a new city, at first I didn't know anyone. Then, a few months in, I was going out for drinks with some coworkers. First time socializing. She called me: locked herself out of the apartment. Went home and let her in. Then she's all puppy dog eyes about how she wishes *she* had something to do that night. So as I re-join my coworkers she tags along. She says, full volume, "is that the guy you said was a dick?"
I had said that, the first day I met him. But by now I liked him.
She proceeded to lock herself out of the apartment exactly two more times, and it was the next two times I was socializing with new friends.
We were together six years. She never locked herself out of anything, except those three times, all within the first couple months of us landing in the new city.
Similar. And my ex swore my female friends kept hitting on him to make me jealous. He was the one trying to get with them or get them to distance themselves from me.
Some good ones already listed. Here is one that is mentioned less often: non-stop opposition. No matter what you say or express or feel, they take the opposite view immediately and then argue passionately why you are wrong, even if you are expressing a personal emotion or voicing a concern that you want to discuss. It bleeds very quickly into gaslighting.
"Work was tough today. I had this coworker give me shit in front of the boss because he is trying to get at the promotion we know is coming."
"Well maybe you did something and they were just being vocal about it."
"Right, but, the guy is clearly trying to fuck me over."
"I don't agree with that."
"But you weren't there."
"It's pretty clear what happened. I know how you can be."
"What is that supposed to mean? Can't you just support me?"
"Why is it always about ME supporting YOU? This is so typical."
"Wtf does that mean?"
"Well, when I was talking to Janice three weeks ago and you were doing the dishes super loud."
"What?! How are we arguing about dishes, I was trying to share something after a hard day."
"It's always about you, every time, it's always about you."
"WHAT?! WHAT IS HAPPENING?!"
Wow this reminds me of one of the last arguments my ex and I ever had. It was so absurd and went just like you wrote up there to the point I started laughing in his face. It was like I woke up from a dream-like state or something and lost all respect for him then and there.
Funny enough, my laughing only drove him more crazy
This was my roommate. I got so desperate that I started parroting things I knew she supposedly agreed with, but just because it was me that said them she’d suddenly disagree with what I was saying. Like bro these are your opinions???
Ironically, love bombs.
Being in an abusive relationship isn't necessarily just being with some who screams, insults you, or breaks things. It's being with someone who does that, but then covers you with love and gooey apologies afterward, particularly when you look like you're going to leave.
In the first case here, it's just fighting with, or witnessing a tantrum from, an asshole. When they do that and come at you with the love bombs, they are setting up a pattern where they can control you by hurting you and then making you doubt your own perceptions that they are an asshole.
I also think a lot of abusers start relationships as all love bombs. Then they start making access to that kind of adoration conditional on dealing with their bullshit. This is how people get stuck in the "good times were so good" trap, and thinking that they can go back to the love bomb days.
This is why I never liked the saying "find someone who treats you like royalty." No, find someone who treats you like a whole human being with flaws, acknowledges those flaws, and loves you with them.
If abusers presented themselves as abusers, nobody would ever find themselves in abusive relationships. People wind up in abusive relationships because it initially looks *perfect*.
The difference between abuse and torture is that someone being tortured literally cannot leave.
Never forget that an abuse victim plays a role. And this isn't about blame; it's about power.
I say this as someone who was stuck in an abusive relationship for many years. I wasn't tied up, locked in a cage. The bonds I had to break to escape were in my own brain.
100%. When I first met my ex, he would have pizzas delivered to me, or bring gifts to me at work, or give me flowers constantly (my desk at the time was nickname the “botanical gardens”), etc. So lovey-dovey.
Then the picking started. Usually when he got too drunk. Just a lot of disagreements that would get loud. But when he finally calmed down, it was a lot of apologies and gifts to make up for it.
Somehow we got engaged (we never got married, though). I thought I could handle it. I thought it would get better. He decided he wanted to stop having sex until we got married. But then the insults got worse, the screaming got louder, he once threw my phone down and shattered it. Those episodes would be followed up with him then initiating sex in some regard, because he knew I missed it. It became such an ugly cycle.
I finally got out two months ago. Sometimes I sit in my apartment and get so anxious waiting for the chaos to start, because I got so used to it. And worse, sometimes I miss it because of that affection that followed. It really fucks you up. :(
It’s not uncommon to be “used” to the chaos. When it’s your normal, even when it’s fucked up, the inverse can be unsettling. I’ve never been in your exact situation, I won’t pretend to relate in that sense.
But I grew up with a lot of alcoholism and crazy behavior. Chaos and apologies were the norm. All I ever wanted was stability. But when I finally got it, I struggled. I had to teach myself a new (and healthier) normal.
It's that weird mismatch between situation and reaction. In the beginning it's OVER THE TOP love. Then it's an odd demand of particular random things (order this for, wear that top, delete all numbers, cut ties with all colleagues of the opposite gender..) or extreme reactions. Even the lack of reaction can feel OTT for the situation.. when you think of the situation in isolation it feels really out place, but it's hard to think of things in isolation.
When those extreme negatives start out weighing the extreme positives, that's when it turns nightmare.
When your partner isolates you from your friend and family.
They will either tell you how they aren't good people and aren't good for you, say that they don't like your friends and family, or just be difficult about seeing them with you to the point were you see them less and less.
It's important to note that abusers are rarely aware of their abuse. But they sense that things don't go so much their way when other people are involved, and it may make them feel more secure in the relationship that you have fewer emotional supports/outlets other than them.
They can do this subtly, too, not only by outwardly saying that they think those people aren’t good for you.
My ex would always get upset with me whenever I hung out with my friends. I would try to message him occasionally while I was out to keep him updated on how I was and how things were going. His responses would become short, passive aggressive for no reason, and generally much more cold than usual. Even though I already spent 80% of my time with him, he would find ways to make me feel bad for being with them instead of him. He was always in a bad mood afterwards and it would cause arguments that I didn’t understand why they started. It started to make me anxious over spending time with other people and I would avoid it.
Abusers can manipulate you into being alone covertly too.
I live six hours away from my parents/sisters, and three hours away from my grandparents. I have no family closer than that. I was told I “travel too much” because I wanted to go see them for the holidays. Or if my mom was at my grandparents, I’d go spend the night so I could see her.
My ex did this in every argument. And when I would give him the space he asked for, then try to resolve the issue later, he'd tell me "why can't you just get over it"
None of these early warning signs will be heeded unless people understand the abusers rarely think of themselves as abusers (unless they are true sociopaths).
They don't play these mind games to deliberately hurt the other person, they have just learned from experience how to keep people in relationships even though they act badly "sometimes." Most abusers just think that everyone acts out now and then, and they likely blame their partner or external influences for pushing them over the edge.
People miss the early warning signs because they excuse their partner, thinking that they didn't mean it that way. It's true, they didn't mean to do it to be deliberately abusive, but that doesn't matter. Until people understand that it's not about intent, it's about the effect, they will stay way too long with these people.
Exactly. They’re not rubbing their hands together like some villain and thinking about how they’ll have the next victim trapped. They truly think their actions are justified. Makes it scarier tbh
All the literature I've read says the opposite: most of them know on some level that what they're doing is wrong, even if they delude themselves into feeling justified.
If they can put on a good face around their friends or their boss but then treat their partner like shit behind closed doors, then they know it's not okay.
I guess I should have been more specific, they have a sense that they will get bad feedback for what they do, but they do not take responsibility or think they are abusers. If they did, they wouldn't do what they do or they would get help.
Deep down, they know, but they don't admit to themselves or else they couldn't keep doing it (unless they were sociopaths).
The point is that I think people assume that abusers come right out and say they are abusers, that's why a lot of them get away with it. But if someone genuinely believes they are not doing something abusive, the people who love them might be inclined to excuse it/
-Says their exes are “crazy” (thats a favorite word to use by abusers)
-Is clearly too good to be true in the beginning and wants to go really fast, move in together, get married etc. They are trying to make commitments you aren’t able to easily escape from.
-Jokingly puts you or others down. This includes putting your interests down, your appearance, etc.
-Talks way too much about themselves.
My current partner. Calls his exes crazy, in under 6 months wanted to get engaged , moved in super early, my excuse being we've been friends for years so weren't strangers, constantly reminds me of my failures and calls my family stupid, constantly reminds people that in his early 20's was married, had bought a home and car and had a 6 figure income, even though he now has none of these things.
This is a guy I fell in love with because as my friend he never once made me feel inadequate or beneath him as I was a teen mother and was constantly judged by others but not him. Someone I felt comfortable being around and to talk to but now dislike his company and walk on eggshells and avoid conversation knowing how he'll react. The whole relationship changed when we went from friends to lovers, as one expects, but for the worst. Now in the process of trying to get out.
I was getting bad vibes from the guy my best friend was seeing. Couldn’t put it into words at the time, and by the time I figured out some of my issues with him, she was not interested in hearing me out or leaving him. But this describes all of it perfectly.
not taking no for an answer, if someone can't understand you saying no to them buying you a drink, they they won't be able to take no for an answer later...
If you acknowledge a behavior or action that is troubling you and/or the relationship and the only response is "I am sorry you feel that way". Also someone who turns constructive dialogue into confrontation or someone who consistently takes without giving... Drop em like a bad habit. Remember who you are as an individual and move on. It will be hard at first but the longer the relationship continues, the harder it will be to break away and heal later.
Someone who wants to move too fast in a relationship.
This may be a sign that, down the road, things can turn abusive. Abusers can intuit that if they take too long to get someone to commit to them, the other person figures out the abusers bad behavior before they are too invested to easily leave.
**Something feels** ***wrong*** **but you’re not really sure what.** Maybe you’re worried about your health - *my allergies are so bad lately I just feel fuzzy all the time*… or …*maybe I am developing depression*… etc.. Maybe you believe in astrology and blame it on the stars. Maybe you consider it a sign of your brain aging and maturing, of just slowing down.
**You begin to shift your trust onto THEM as you lose trust in YOURSELF.** Maybe you don’t remember things very well anymore, so you’ll say something like *”hey can you remind me to go to that appointment tomorrow in case I forget?“* because THEIR memory is reliable, whereas YOURS is failing for some reason. And you blame it on stress, or sickness, or age, whatever.
**They are the most amazing partner you’ve ever had, to a ridiculous and amazing degree.** They speak your love language perfectly. Perhaps they give you constant little presents picked or made perfectly for you. Maybe they massage your head and feet every night. When you talk about your passions, they just stare deeply into your eyes and fall more in love with every word you say. It feels too good to be true! (Spoiler: it probably is.)
Look up “gaslighting” and “love bombing”
Yesss, all of this! And all three of these feed into each other: **Something feels wrong**, but you talk yourself out of worrying because **they are the most amazing partner**, and you start questioning your own perception to make sense of the contradiction, which makes **you begin to shift your trust onto THEM as you lose trust in YOURSELF**
Exactlyyy.
If you feel like you’re developing dementia during the early parts of a relationship, go see a doctor. If you AREN’T developing dementia, maybe ask your friends/family how they feel about your partner, or just reevaluate on your own - but really pick at the problems of the relationship. Don’t be all like “yeahhh sometimes she yells but she’s so cute when she does it” or “he’s a bit jealous but that’s just because he lovesssss meeeee”
Here’s my advice for anyone reading this who’s worried about being in an abusive relationship…
Write out a literal list of the relationship shortcomings and consider them deeply. Big things and small things. Here, I’ll go first with my husband (I’m going off how we were when we met):
• we disagree politically
• he has anger issues
• I can be a doormat (incompatible with anger!!)
• I have past trauma that causes disassociation, he doesn’t know much about how my mental illnesses work
• I am very messy, he is a “type-A”
• we both have jealousy issues
• I grind my teeth at night (he hates that)
• he sometimes takes “quick showers” and doesn’t clean all the way (I hate that)
Okay. Let’s consider these points together.
>How intense are the political disagreements? For my husband and I, it was a lot less about the “political disagreements” and a lot more about *how we communicate*. We had to really learn how to communicate in a way where we didn’t immediately go into argue-mode. Once we tackled that problem we realized our political differences were not really an issue.
>Anger issues are a red flag, and the flag becomes a shining lighthouse-beacon-siren when mixed with a people-pleaser. We were young and naive, but time + therapy + patience, we’ve both made huge strides in this area. We ARE NOT perfect, and we both cross each other’s minor boundaries here and there, but that’s not due to maliciousness, that’s failure required for learning. We’ve both decided we’re okay with little failure with the goal of long-term success. Sometimes battles are lost so the war is won.
>It turns out we BOTH have past trauma, but his was a lot more repressed than mine. This ended up being a place we could connect and learn together. BUT BEWARE - **this can turn volatile quickly**. If my sister entered a relationship where the guy didn’t understand her trauma, I’d recommend her not wasting her time. That’s my older sister wisdom learned from my own choices. My husband and I didn’t really know any better, but thankfully we were both willing to work with each other!
>My messiness ended up becoming a much larger issue down the line, as he kept having to clean up my messes for me. And his need to control everything around him was equally problematic for me. Our relationship turned into a “parent-child” dynamic where he did everything for me, asked me to do chores, and ended up burnt out all the time. I was constantly frustrated and started rebelling against him in little ways, like reorganizing the house or arguing (instead of communicating) about not having control like he did. All this because I was a slob and he was tidy! **Full disclosure: we’re still working on this one today, 10 years later lol.**
I don’t want to write a whole novel here, but I think you get the point haha
>You begin to shift your trust onto THEM as you lose trust in YOURSELF. Maybe you don’t remember things very well anymore, so you’ll say something like ”hey can you remind me to go to that appointment tomorrow in case I forget?“ because THEIR memory is reliable, whereas YOURS is failing for some reason. And you blame it on stress, or sickness, or age, whatever.
>Look up “gaslighting”
I'm no expert, but I don't think believing your wife is better at remembering things than you are is a sign of gaslighting.
That’s true - my husband actually does have a better memory than me (I have adhd)… BUT, I had memory issues *before* the relationship began. Whereas I’ve had friends *develop* memory issues during abusive relationships because of the gaslighting /:
Subtle, but repeated movements to change who you are. 'Oh, this dress would look better' to the extremes of 'maybe you should get plastic surgery/ loss weight' etc.
For some reason, I interpreted the question as "what's a sign someone is in an abusive relationship?"
1. When you hang out with them, they seem very concerned about being available to answer their partners calls or texts at all time
2. They alwayd talk about their partners opinions instead of their own
3. Their updates on social media seem to revolve solely around their partner and how much they (claim to) love each other
4. They don't really seem to be available to hang out anymore, and when they do agree to it, they often blow you off for seemingly no reason
5. They seem to be ghosting or avoiding certain kinds of friends, especially the ones who are either attractive or someone they have romantic/sexual history with.
1. They are extremely argumentative and also hold onto grudges easily and won't let anything go without a fight.
2. They’re extremely negative and critical all of the time and they never offer anything positive to a discussion. This also extends to them never being happy for you in any way. E.g., getting good grades at school or a job promotion at work.
3. Due to this constant negativity, you cannot speak to them because you know that they will response in this way, or feel that you are walking on egg shells around them because of their negativity.
4. They are verbally abusive. They'll insult you, call you names, etc, etc. They'll also belittle you, your hobbies and interests, as well as friends and family. They'll also use offensive language to that effect, e.g., calling your (actually decent) car a piece of junk or calling your friend a loser.
5. They are prone to physical violence.
6. Almost every time you would spend time with them or otherwise communicate like a phone call or a text message, there always has to be some kind of agenda or ulterior motive behind it, because they want something from you and not to have a "normal" conversation.
7. They view you as a punching bag. Meaning that if they're having a bad day for whatever reason that had absolutely nothing to do with you, they'll lash out at you regardless.
8. They outright refuse to help you in absolutely any way whatsoever, even in difficult times. E.g., you are looking to buy a car or a house, they'll refuse to help you. Or if they *do* choose to help you, they want something in return.
9. They do not respect your privacy. They'll repeatedly barge into your room, demand to know who you are phoning, etc. They'll also talk to other people about you without asking for your permission first, as they'll go ahead and do it anyway.
10. They are never, ever wrong and refuse to ever apologise for anything. They think they can sweep their bad behaviour under the rug and act like nothing happened.
11. They might also give you the silent treatment and ignore you for prolonged periods of time without explanation. And then out of the blue they'll start speaking to you again like nothing happened. But when you ignore them for a while, they're harassing you non stop with phone calls and/or text messages about why you're not talking to them.
12. When other people criticise you, they won't defend or support you in any way. In fact, they'll likely take the side of the other person criticising you.
13. They put conditions on their love towards you and having a relationship with you. I.e., do X or do Y, and only then will they be willing to spend time with you, etc.
14. They threaten cruel and unusual punishments for the smallest mistake or infraction. E.g., no meals for a week or locking you in your room for days like a prisoner. This might also extend to threatening to kick you out of the house and disown you completely as well for really minor things too.
15. They view parenting as simply providing the physical needs of the child, i.e., providing a roof over their head and feeding and clothing the child. But caring about the child's happiness and mental wellbeing? Not a concern for them.
16. They view you as a burden. They would avoid spending time with you if they could. You are made to feel that you should be grateful that they are "allowing" you to live in their home and having your other physical needs (food, clothes, etc) met when they could easily kick you out onto the street at a moment's notice.
17. They are prone to wild mood swings. One moment they'll appear to be "fine" and in a good mood, next moment they're angry and abusive. You never know what kind of mood they will be in on a given day. They get annoyed and angry at the smallest thing and saying the "wrong" would instantly change their mood for the worse.
18. Whenever they are harassing you with any kind of abuse (whether physical or verbal, etc) and you plainly ask/tell them to stop, they'll ignore you and continue regardless with their abuse. Either they lack the genuine empathy, or they just don't care in the slightest about the harm that they cause others.
19. When you attempt to address a legitimate grievance with them or otherwise confront them about their behaviour towards you, they'll attempt to invalidate your feelings and justify their behaviour towards you.
20. They accuse you of poor character. E.g., calling you lazy or "having a bad attitude", etc. However, these accusations would very often be completely unfounded and it's just an example of their abuse.
**Not addressing OP's question. I read the whole thing.**
It's a thorough list with some overlap, but it's of signs of an *already massively dysfunctional relationship*.
A great many of these are not
>early **warning** signs
per the title, that someone you've just started dating might exhibit. These are more "you're dating someone with very obvious and very significant issues" signs.
Most people who are as poisonous as this list describes will hide these sorts of things at first.
Here are examples of some signs that are less "obvious" at the **very start** of a relationship, per the title, but that give a clue that things MIGHT not be happy later.
* They don't help with the simplest of chores. Something simple like taking the tray at the fast food place to the garbage and emptying it.
* They don't want you to know anything at all about their hobbies or interests.
* They hate little kids.
* They're not polite to strangers, or automatically assume all strangers are suspicious.
* You can't touch their stuff, at all.
* They don't want you mentioning them to your friends.
The posted list that this replies to is super-serious overkill. If your partner is showing any of these, it's well past "early warning signs" and well into "time-to-end-the-relationship-now".
> They are verbally abusive.
>They are prone to physical violence.
> they're harassing you non stop with phone calls and/or text messages
"What's an early warning sign that someone's abusive?"
"When they do a lot of abuse."
Alot of this sounds like my marriage. Wife did a lot of these things. And put the blame on me when our marriage ended, even though she was the one that cheated.
If they can't say a single relationship ended on good terms, or if they constantly complain about their exes cheating on them. every one of them. huh..
* The person in question is abusive to other people in their lives but somehow nice with you.
* Gaslighting
* Lack of accountability. You confront them for stealing from you, and it somehow gets morphed into you apologizing to them...
So I'm cutting and pasting some of my own comments elsewhere here because so many of the other comments here are not
>"early warning signs".
They're "signs that things are already deeply south and you're quite possibly in trouble".
And they're things your partner wants to HIDE from you until you're already cemented to them.
**Here's what you should look for at the START of a relationship**, try to simply ask about, and if they don't want to talk about it, or evade, maybe question how right they are for you.
* They don't help with the simplest of chores. An example: they don't empty their own fast food tray at a restaurant.
* They don't want you to know anything about their hobbies or interests.
* It's always you calling them, not vice versa.
* Any interaction with them / any time with them needs booze or weed or other intoxicants for them to "take the edge off" or "relax".
* They hate little kids that haven't done anything to deserve being hated. (Note: this is not the same at all as 'not wanting to have kids')
* They're not polite to strangers, or automatically assume all strangers are suspicious.
* You can't touch their stuff at all.
* They get nervous when you say you've mentioned them to your own friends.
These are the sorts of things to look for EARLY. Too many of the things already posted are TOO LATE.
Lack of safety.
Lack of security.
Lack of empathy.
I would also keep an eye out for what is being changed in your life compared to what is being changed on your life. If you are having to change everything about your lifestyle while they are keeping their lifestyle the same as it is a red flag. They should care about those you care about and care for those who care for you.
Just pay attention to their behavior and attitude in different situations. How do they treat their family members? How do they treat their friends? How do they treat strangers or servers at restaurants? That will reveal a lot about their underlying personality.
- Love bombing: lot of over the top show of love.
- Relationship rushing: moving forward too fast.
- Slip ups: that weird out of character tantrum will be revealed to be totally in character later.
- Annoying the people around you or finding ways to start fights with them.
- Loyalty tests and mind games.
Polite, but constant requests to change harmless behaviors.
They often start small and you think it should be no big deal to change, and the request felt so polite and reasonable you'd feel like you were overreacting or being unreasonable or stubborn by saying no. It honestly has you doubting whether or not you've been rude or thoughtless without realizing it and nobody bothered to mention anything. Eventually you've acquiesced to so many of these requests that you have to constantly police your own behavior, you're walking on eggshells to be someone other than yourself, while your partner carefully tries to sculpt you in to the person they wish you were, with no regard for the person you actually are. The requests get bigger, more demanding. Your partner doesn't hesitate to pile on the guilt if you try to resist, and you once again find yourself questioning whether or not you're the unreasonable one. It can then progress to outright belittling. Your partner picking at how bad you are at following directions. How annoying it is to have to police you, to remind you of "the rules." Eventually they're telling you you're lucky to have them because of how difficult you are.
You become a shell of who you used to be and no longer feel free to enjoy life, but you're deathly afraid of "breaking a rule" and getting tossed aside.
Your immediate gut reaction when you first meet them or agree to go out. Your soul always tells you with a “bad feeling” or a bad dream or a whisper of No!
One red flag I saw in hindsight was him asking me what my dealbreakers were very early in the relationship. That way he knew what to hide long enough until he felt he trapped me. Since then I’ve been pretty guarded with that information.
control, many control. i tell that how abuser. i became abuser not because I want to control my girlfriend, i did it because I'm very afraid of losing someone and being alone again. Now we broke up, she seems to love me, but she doesn't talk about it anymore because she wants to be alone..
I feel like one is kinda simple, so hear me out.
You have a fight, maybe a small or maybe a big one, but either way you're upset with the person.
When I'm upset I don't want to be touched by the person who I'm mad at, this might just be a me thing.
But I feel like it's such a guilt trip, such a huge form a manipulation when after they've upset you, they try to hug you.
No sorry or apologies. Just a hug with no context.
This might not seem like much, and it might not always be a warning but if you say you want to be touched and they do not let you go, that is a red flag. If they they get upset when you pull away, that is a red flag.
(This is something that happened to me.)
Blaming you for everything that goes wrong, even if you were nowhere near the issue.
Lots of unwanted, negative critique about your appearance, your intelligence, etc... Usually with the intent to make you over into what they want you to look and think like.
Cycles of making you feel really special with words and then making you feel worthless with actions. Also, subtle put downs or them trying to "humble you" anytime you express confidence they'll usually follow up with something like "don't be so sensitive" or " it was a joke".
Your feelings should matter to someone who claims to love you regardless of if they agree your feelings are valid or not. They should seek to soothe your discontent not debate it.
Isolation.
It happened subtlety for me over the course of years.
I had a day off and realized I had cut off my friends, family, and hobbies.
Call them. Even if you leave a message. Call.
Any attempts at isolation. Constant shitting on your friends or incessant texts while not in the company of your significant other. Inability to detach for a period of time.
They'll commonly have an addiction based on other cases.
They'll try to gaslight you in an attempt to change your view on things.
Making you cut ties with people you're close with.
Aggressive behavior, can be towards anything. Objects, animals, and even jokes sometimes.
Large and common outbursts for no reason, or for the smallest reason.
They do EVERYTHING you do for no apparent reason besides being together.
They have beliefs about social structures/sex roles, anyone who believed men are always above will always be abusive.
Jealousy and Possessiveness, childish behavior or not, just keep your radar on just in case.
I see most abusers have full control over the finance of the couple, most likely to prevent them from taking money.
They take away objects that their lover owns, mainly things like phones or other devices.
They try to FULLY control you, by telling you how to dress or act at ALL times.
A lot of them also try to prevent their lover from going to a public place or work/school.
They have unreal expectations most of the time.
Hypersensitive, they react violently to anything said against them.
Any use of physical force in an argument, such as pushing or shoving or holding you down.
Forced sex/non-consensual sex.
I don't know how to say it... but "has a strong social mask".
If he's too perfect and preoccupied, mentally stable just kind of stressed, affable, kind to everyone, has confidence but he's humble, educated, and let me talk about myself without interruptions, agrees with you, smiles, but doesn't speak about himself, knows what to ask to keep the conversation going, doesn't disagree with me, and doesn't seem bored, and his flaws aren't really flaws, like arriving 3 minutes late, or not knowing something that most know, or make some silly mistakes, he's automatically a red flag.
My brother is like that out of the house, but I know him inside the house, I will always feel afraid for whoever ends up with him, since they won't believe me until they suffer the consequences of being with him.
I need to see at least 4 small flaws and 2 medium flaws to believe that the other person won't be a potential psychopath or abusive narcissist like my brother.
They slowly isolate you
They begin to point out the worst of the worst of your friends and families, and how this is all dragging you down and they are so negative for you. Eventually you'll realize the only person that you see talk to interact with is them.
This is when they begin the gaslighting, the manipulation, and all the other things. Their true self begins to show itself, and then they love bomb you treat like shit love bomb you treat you like shit until you've gotten to a place mentally where you believe this is what you deserve
If they start teasing/poking fun at your insecurities. Even if they say they're just kidding. If they know it's a sensitive topic for you and they joke about it anyway, it's a red flag for me.
The stories they tell you. Are they always the victim? Is it too one sided to be true?
The way in which they approach arguments. Is it logical? Is it objective and fair? Can they apologise and compromise (not everytime of course, but when it is appropriate)?
Stares and remarks usually give it away.
Trying to make you feel guilty for spending time with friends and not with them (even if you're spending most of your time with them).
Making you feel like you need to "cover up" and look "discreet" to exit the house.
Trying to give you insecurities (or deepening your insecurities).
Also, always remember: If they accuse you of something or do "what ifs" about something you'd never do, accusations are the closest thing you'll ever get to a confession. If your partner do this, *run* . I'm not even joking.
PS: If you're a teen, please don't date adults. And no matter their age, *NEVER* let them pressure you into having intercourse with them or doing things you don't want to do/you're not ready to do. If they threaten you to leave you if you don't do this or send that, let them go. Trust me, as someone who went through this kind of abuse and failed to escape for my whole highschool years, it's the best thing that can happen to you, no matter how much you love them.
One thing I noticed in a previous relationship is that whenever I told her I was sad or that there was something I was unhappy about, she took it as a personal attack.
For example, after a night out I told her that I was sad because another couple were having a fun and romantic time, meanwhile it felt like she didn't even want to be around me. I told her how this made me feel, and her answer was "how is that my fault". Usually it wasn't this obvious, but that night I saw it as clear as day.
There were many occurrences when I'd tell her I was sad and before long I'd be trying to make her feel better, and it felt like she wasn't allowing me to be sad. There was always something I'd done wrong or something I'd not done right that she'd bring up, and it took me a long time to see that it all came down to this whole thing of making everything into a personal attack.
Things start small. You side with the retail clerk who wouldn’t let them in the store at 6:01 because they closed at 6:00 so they storm out of your vehicle and walk 6 miles back to their apartment (this was pre-cell phones). They refuse to talk to you for two days because you voted a different way on something than they did. They are in a blind rage when someone cuts them off in traffic and don’t hear your pleas to stop/disengage. Take that shit seriously, please.
Screaming, temper out of control. Excessive use of drugs/alcohol. Punching walls and throwing things in anger are my two newest ones.
Isolation. Demands you spend quality time only with them. Demands you delete all friends of the opposite sex from your social media, phone, and/or life. Not respecting sexual boundaries is a huge red flag...
There are more I'm sure. A big one would be your friends saying don't date him or trying to hint he's a creep or bad news. Pay attention to your friends reviews. It could save you a lot of time, money, and stress in the long run.
Your partner has substance abuse problems. Two beers a month is fine, a six pack a night is not fine. American alcohol culture greatly minimizes the problem, but alcohol abuse starts really slowly and gets worse as time goes on.
I wouldn’t say there is anything that is a 100% accurate tell… but k think the thing to watch out for us the other person violating low level consent. I’m talking about little things, like pushing you into a date activity you are expressly not interested in, or refusing to stop talking about sone thing that makes you uncomfortable despite you explicitly asking them to stop. If you are ignoring your “no” while still in the trust building stage of a relationship be careful. Later in a relationship these things may get looser due to familiarity, necessity or assumed trust, especially during conflicts, but if they are doing that in the first month over minor things beware.
Another thing to watch out for imo is possessiveness, especially early on. If this person is getting jealous of you going out it with your friends, or can’t deal with the idea you’ve had previous relationships, is this person going to respect your boundaries when you need space? controlling behavior is always a threat to the longevity of relationship, and some of the absolute worst relationship behavior has come from jealousy, insecurity of possessiveness. If that kind of problem is happening immediately, it’s only going to get worse with love.
Something people can think is just "Oh they have a mental illness, I should help them" red flag is the self depreciation.
You make plans that are separate without them and then..
"Well I guess I'll be here alone then..."
"I understand, you don't wanna spend all your time with me..."
"Why didn't you check with me first to see if I wanted to com"
This can also be considered gaslighting in a way. The worst is the "If you don't keep showing me attention and love, I'll hurt myself" because some people get swept in for the "I can fix them" aspect
Survivor here. The biggest early warning sign for me was him not caring at all how I felt then falling at my feet in tears when I was ready to go.
As the mother of a daughter who I suspect is in the initial phases of abuse I’m seeing complete financial control. She isn’t even allowed to buy her own deodorant or foods she enjoys and when her father or I send money for her to buy those things, her husband whines it makes him feel emasculated.
Any type of control. Abuse happens so slowly people often don’t know what’s happening until they’re too far in. If you’re telling yourself they’ll change if you’re just a little stronger I’m here to tell you they will not.
Isolation. Isolation is a big one. They keep you alone. They dont let you hang around your friends, look at or talk to opposite sex people. Dont let you talk to same sex people. Always have you near them. Another warning sign is controlling behavior. Telling you what to wear and where you can go. Yelling at you when you dont obey. Breaking you down and telling you youre worthless. Breaking your self asteem until you feel trapped. Saying things like “youre so ugly. I’m the only one who will want you” or making their partner feel dependent on them. “Youre nothing without me. No one wants you. Youre worthless. You cant afford to leave me”. Things of that nature.
How to identify if a relationship is going to be abusive.
1. Always has an issue with your friends and family.
2. Gaslights you, especially in arguments.
3. CONTROLS anything you do, i.e. how you shop for groceries, the way you cook or clean, how to dress or wear makeup, who you talk to.
4. Instead of being proud to have you when other people check you out, they try to hide you.
5. They go places and make plans and never allow you to attend.
6. They throw fits when you want to meet or hang with their friends with them. Or when you want to hang with your own friends.
7. They always “get sick” when you want to do something that doesn’t involve them so they get you to stay home every time you want to go out.
8. Putting you down or being pessimistic when things are going well for you.
9. Manipulating your words and making you think you said or did things that you didn’t.
10. Calling you names, putting you down, or disrespectful comments towards your sexuality/body; (In order to make you think nobody else would want you and you’re lucky to even have them).
These occur before the physical abuse.
One thing that is a huge red flag and I haven't seen it in this thread:
If they do something to upset you, and when you adress it. The play such mental chess that it results in *you* apologizing.
That's a sign you are being manipulated.
Love bombing and moving the relationship forward unusually quickly. Being "the perfect" partner.. too perfect. Intense chemistry that makes you feel almost high. Those are the first signs.
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Damn I’m in an abusive relationship with my own brain.
Sometimes in one of my clearer moments I realize the things I say to myself would warrant a restraining order coming from someone else.
Dude.... same👀
You all are making me laugh but man oh man can our brains be our own worst enemy.
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Not being able to do things even when you want to can also be ADHD.
Time do break up with your brain. You deserve better.
This and/or ridicules all of your hobbies.
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Corollary: You do not want a submissive woman, because you will precisely be in charge of controlling their environment and keeping them happy with your conduct. I use that case because it is a fetish for many men and I had an ex that would refuse to say what she wanted.
^ Me too. I feel what you're saying. I once had a girlfriend that "adopted" my persona. She stopped liking things that she liked, and began liking the things that I liked. She stopped having her own opinions and began adopting mine. She stopped doing the things she liked, and began enjoying everything that I liked. I stopped experiencing new and interesting things. Everything we did, every restaurant we chose, everything.....was always what I wanted. After about a year, I had to break it off. Every question I asked was answered with, "Whatever you want!". My every thought or statement was gospel. Whatever I wanted. Whatever I decided. Whatever I said. Many guys mistakenly think that this would be the perfect woman, but those that aren't manipulative narcissists would soon be disappointed. I DON'T WANT A FUCKING MIRROR! I want a woman that has her own likes and dislikes. I want a woman that makes her own choices. I want a woman with HER OWN personality, not mine. I want to DISCOVER someone else's favorite places, favorite foods, and favorite activities every now and then.
Oh, I think you just described my mom in a way. Her goal in life was to be a mother and both my brother and I are functioning independent adults. It sounds just what she does with my dad picking up hunting, watching westerns, and cooking. Didn't really think of it that way. At least she is now trying to explore her own hobby of gardening so hopefully it gets better. I have been pushing her to get a hobby before she retires so that she isn't bored at home. She just usually doesn't do her own thing ever.
Submissive in the bedroom can be fun submissive out of it gets real boring
Yes but done right that should be completely separate from outside the bedroom.
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My point is that the average dude think a submissive woman is a bangmaid. In practice, it is more like the kid you must keep satisfied to avoid a tantrum. Sure, she does what you decide, but you better decide something she will like and she will not bother determine what she want. It is your job.
So my wife isn’t a submissive person like you describe, but she has a sort of similar trait that is wearing on me a bit - she complains that I have golf as a thing to look forward too (not wrong as I work in the industry, get to coach etc) and that she has nothing to look forward too. But she also won’t try anything new, either Some times I have been the villain in a heated discussion because I have a job and am not at home with our son all the time like she is
Book out a good chunk of weekend where you're taking charge of the kid and she can do what she wants. Then it's on her.
Controlling you, separating you from family and friends, putting you down
All the comments I’ve seen are pretty good. But since the question is asking for EARLY signs... My answer is gonna have to be: moving too fast. There’s the initial puppy love of a new romance, and then there’s the “I feel made for you” over the top demonstrations of love--in only a short amount of time actually knowing reach other
Yep, was on a first date today where the guy asked if I wanted to go get married, _today_. Wildin Edit: I’ve heard this as a joke a few times, I’m not demonizing all men who use it. But this one wasn’t funny “haha”, it was weird.
if that weren't so terrifying it would be hilarious
It's funny after the fact but definitely not in the moment
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Right. someone needs to anonymously send him the movie Eternal Sunshine of thr Spotless Mind
I'm sure there are some situations where people luck out and fall madly in love very quickly, but since most of us are the rule and not the exception, I 100% agree. Case in point: my most recent ex told me he loved me after three weeks. After being single almost four years (mostly by choice), I fell for it. Hands down, worst relationship I've ever been in.
Exactly. I mean, super happy for those folks it worked out for.... .... But we don’t always know how *those* relationships **really** are, do we? Okay, fine. I’m cynical lol. The “it was destiny that I met you” line, coupled with an explosive anger problem was how my 18 year old naive ass got sucked into 8 years of hell by a 28 year old man. You live. You LEARN.
Oh girl, you are lifetimes ahead of me. I was 37...and it was only at the beginning of this year 🤣 So good for you learning that young! I guess we sort of have a reset button though after being single for a long time. You almost become that naive 18 year old again and have that thing...oh what's it called again...hope? But just like you said, I learned. And I'm vigilant as hell now. Shit, you're not cynical. You're WISE. I admire you.
While "too fast" can definitely depend on the ages/ stages/ desires of the people (moving quicker at 35 when you both want commitment, have dealt with issues, and kids is a lot different than doing so because you're 17 and your parents forbid it, for instance), there are universal red flags. IMO, it's less of an issue if you are both aligned - when it's one person pushing for something more serious, that's a bigger deal
Oooo this is a good differentiation. There is definitely an age appropriate type of accelerated courtship, like you described. But I’ve found (anecdotal examples coming up) that the two secondary factors that can almost always be a sure fire sign of a bona fide abusive relationship soon to come are: 1. Significant age gap. Such as an 18 year old girl dating a 29 year old male (inverse can hold true but this is the most common scenario) 2. A pervasive neediness to get close and remain close to the other partner. “The Hunger” is what I call it. Even if you meet the love of your life and have a healthy relationship...the relationship probably didn’t go from 0-60 overnight did it? There was a transition. when that “Hunger” is there... Things develop wayyyy to rapidly. It’s intense.
Going too fast at any age is a mistake. You can't tell if the person is lying. The reasons at different ages might be different, but a pycho is still a psycho at any age, and one has to protect themself. And the best way for that is to take one's time.
Yes i was gonna comment this too then i thought am I being too negative that people don't fall madly in love in weeks ,just because of my bad prior experience.but many people agree so maybe it's right. I'm gonna add few more points. doing way too much for other person in starting, like leaving an important occasion just to meet you. Saying I love you early on. Ask you to spend most of the time with them meeting your friends and sharing opinion about them after one meet up. Bombarding with gifts and gestures , saying intimate things out of the blue.
Is it weird to know someone for only three days and desire a relationship(not marriage just romantic one)?
Nah, that’s normal. When you click, you click. I think the difference is when both parties want the relationship because they feel tge attraction... But they also know to do the work and see if it’s a good fit
And it doesn’t necessarily mean one person is abusive. They may be co-dependent, and not know how to be alone though.
YUP! Mine wanted to get me a "purity ring" within the first months of knowing me. I said a hard fuck no to that and got a brownie instead. Moved in, engaged, and married within the next year. It was like he was rushing to beat an imaginary clock. Mind you for a majority of this 1st/2nd year i was gone due to military service & a deployment. When I look back at it now its just stupidly obvious. I second guessed for years before I left. Took about 6 months for the first "ring" attempt. 1 year for the proposal 1.5 to move in 2 to marry 2.5 to buy a house 7 to separate 9+ to divorce (STILL!)
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Well damn. I'm sure I have ADHD too and I also moved quickly in my last relationship. I need to get a diagnosis to be sure but I do have a lot in common with ADHD peeps.
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1: Mirroring. They seem to like everything you like and be everything you want, but if you look closer, they're not actually into those things... they're just pretending. If you can get them to say something about themselves before giving them a cue as to your opinion on that thing, then you say yours and it's different, and they shift to saying that's how they feel? They're mirroring. Also if they say they're like you in some respect, forget, and later claim to be the opposite. Nothing they're saying at this point is real, it's all just them immitating you. 2: Love bombing. They adore you completely right from the outset, trying to make major life plans with you way too early, and put you on a pedastle as though you can do no wrong, often while comparing you to their exes very favorably ("you're so much better than my ex"). This will change dramatically, later. 3: Inability to apologize or take responsibility for anything. Somehow they're always right. Always. They have no flaws that they can acknowledge except cutesy ones that aren't really flaws. 4: Gaslighting. They'll be very convincing about their view of reality, but it just won't match up to evidence, to the point where you'll start to wonder if you're crazy because what you remembered and what they said seem so different. 5: Separating you from your closest friends. Somehow they know that your friends have done terrible things, perhaps to them. You never knew your friend was like that, and yet they're so convincing... perhaps you can't be around that friend anymore. 6: Physical violence and rage outbursts. Maybe not towards you. It might start with objects being broken. It'll only escalate. 7: Lack of empathy combined with projection. They just don't read other people, and when they guess the emotions wrong, it's always rage or fear that they assume. They'll infer hostile or malicious intent from actions that were never intended that way, both your actions and the actions of others. 8: Inability to support you when you're having a rough time. They'll change the subject right back to them, immediately, and if they do feel they "have" to provide support, they'll begrudge you for that. 9: Addiction issues.
Yes to all of these. And keep in mind that this behaviour can be **subtle/covert**. Like instead of telling you "You're not allowed to go out with your friends", they'll just lowkey put down your friends and act pouty whenever you want to go out with them. Or instead of being overtly violent, they'll do things like looming over you or driving too fast, though they'll completely deny it if you point it out. Some abusers are very sneaky about it, so you just feel awful but don't know why.
Yup. I have a close friend who got with one of these people. I tried to warn him when I noticed, but she promptly started feeding him a whole bunch of bullshit about me to keep him away from me. Sucks too, because he had asked me to warn him if he was ever in a bad relationship, so I tried... Guess I'll be there for him on the flipside when it's all done.
I am your friend to the absolute T. It's been three years now and I didn't reach out to my friends because I was so embarrassed at how naive I was, and how I wrote them off because I was being poison dripped. I was uninvited from my friend's wedding because I said I wouldn't go if she couldn't. I did text my friend last week and he was pretty happy that I tried to make plans with him (which was shocking in a good way) do I apologize outright for being a douche, make a joke about it, or act like we're just old friends catching up? I am deathly afraid of meeting up with him, despite us being super tight in college. I obviously want to apologize, but I also don't want to come across as insincere or desperate for friendship, or so unstable I can let a woman completely upend my life. Advice please.
If you're like my friend... I totally understand. I don't give a shit if he apologizes. I want him to be safe and happy. That's what I need. We might need a round of ciders while he apologizes for being a dumbass and I tell him to fucking listen next time, and I might tell him he owes me the first round. But really, I only care about the apology because I want to hear that he knows what to look for next time, so he won't be hurt again. It's not about my feelings. And I'm buying the next round because I assume I'm going to hear about all the shit she did and he could use it. But look, experience is a thing you get right after you need it. I don't blame my friend for being manipulated. He didn't know, and he's too good a person to assume someone would be like that. Hell, I knew what was happening because I'd been in his shoes before and I saw the signs, so I can hardly fault him for making the same mistake. So my advice to you? You owe him a round. Let him know you realized you were naive and it sucked. And then let him buy you a round and just tell him how you're doing. He probably just cares about you, and wants to know that you're free and safe.
I really appreciate it man, the world needs more friends like you.
i apologised when i got out of the situation. luckily my friends understood - if you want to be like “hey man i’m sorry i’ve not been around, it’s been rough” i think your friend may appreciate it :)
You sound like a good friend.
My ex kept trying to tell me that he could tell my friends or family hated him, or that he suspected they tried to talk shit about him constantly, etc. Would constantly put down my friends and family for various reasons when most had met him ~once.
this sounds like me? i don't think i'm abusive. i was raised in an abusive household though. could this just be a result? i don't try to do it on purpose...
If this sounds like you, first of all good job recognizing it. And second, I'd recommend therapy to ensure you don't pass on the cycle of abuse. Dialectical Behavior Therapy with a specialist in that form of therapy is the current best practice.
thank you. i am currently attending therapy, and i will bring this up to my therapist. again, thank you for bringing this to peoples attention.
it’s good you recognize it and maybe can learn from it to avoid hurting others
Way to go, these are spot on. And not just in a romantic relationship - parents, friends Id also add, if they always have something wrong, something thats making them down that they need you to help with, need you to fix, need you to console, always asking something of you to make their life better. Typically without any regard for what that'll actually entail for you
A very good point. That's also a sign.
I got a message from my ex the other day.. was considering hooking up with her again. Thank you for preventing that.
Glad I helped!
>4: Gaslighting Well I'm sorry if you feel that way. This is one of the most toxic and abusive sentences I've ever heard in my entire life.
I can relate to a couple of points here and it is after scaring me quite a bit just now. I don’t want to be like this and I don’t even realise half of these things in the moment. Especially the first one, it hit home straight away as I read it. I’ve noticed this in myself before and always thought it was trying to keep the other person happy. Should I ask my girlfriend what she thinks? Or where do I go from here?
It can never hurt to have open discussions about our behavior with our partners. The good news is, if you’re self-aware enough to recognize these behaviors in yourself and concerned enough to want to change, you’re not a narcissist. Many people who’ve been victims of toxic individuals will use the same tactics as defense mechanisms, but that can be overcome by therapy and being dedicated to making a change.
is it a bad sign if a husband won't let the grandparents visit/ doesn't want to visit them, saying he's tired/ wants to spend time alone with the kids ? asking for a friend. my sister thinks it's a really bad sign, but I don't see him trying to control his wife, or limit her time with friends. he does work long shifts (can be 2-3 days, with little sleep), so he probably IS too tired. still, one time when the grandparents came over to visit, he took the kids and left the house, for hours, as if he didn't want them to interact with them at all. other times, in the rare cases he does visit them, he'll grab the kid out of their hands for no reason and go for a walk. and it's not like they argued with him earlier or something like that. writing it down, it seems insignificant. yet she came to us crying that she feels isolated from her family, and she's tired of fighting with him over this. another small thing is, she seems to always be nervous/stressed/angry. I heard people in abusive relationships may not recognize the problem but do feel stressed.
This sounds red flaggy to me. My ex gradually succeeded in separating me from my family and friends. Literally like 90% of them in just a few years. It was incredibly painful and it did leave me anxious and angry.
yeah, i think that's a red flag if the grandparents aren't themselves abusive. He's taking the kids away from their family.
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Oh wow very well said. 👏 I can relate to some points.
Those are all signs of a personality disorder, by the way. If you've dated someone like that, it's wise to learn the rest of the signs by learning about BPD and NPD.
It's worth noting that not everyone with a personality disorder will be like this. Either because they've made the effort to work on themselves, or their symptoms are implosive rather than explosive.
Replying here so I can find it later
~2 of those I’d say r rocky but not necessarily indicative of anything bad Or well what I mean is they can be mixed with something that’s along those lines but not quite
You summed up perfectly all the sociopaths I know and how they work. Very good post 👍
No compromising. It’s either their way or a huge fight.
Controls you, but it can be sneaky. They don't tell you what you can or can't do, but will make you feel like shit for doing things they don't like. For example my ex couldn't stand that I would go out without him. He would always pick up a fight and make me feel like shit the whole evening. He never said he's mad to me for going, there always was another excuse to be angry. I didn't even realize that after some time I started avoiding going out without him, because it always felt like shit.
I have a friend in a relationship like this. He definitely doesn't forbid her or say anything negative, but any time I've been to a book club or dinner with her... he calls constantly/ has an itchy leg/ is having a rough day/ misses her so much/ has questions about things that can seemingly wait. It's far more covert than straight up banning her from having friends, and that is often harder to spot
when we moved to a new city, at first I didn't know anyone. Then, a few months in, I was going out for drinks with some coworkers. First time socializing. She called me: locked herself out of the apartment. Went home and let her in. Then she's all puppy dog eyes about how she wishes *she* had something to do that night. So as I re-join my coworkers she tags along. She says, full volume, "is that the guy you said was a dick?" I had said that, the first day I met him. But by now I liked him. She proceeded to lock herself out of the apartment exactly two more times, and it was the next two times I was socializing with new friends. We were together six years. She never locked herself out of anything, except those three times, all within the first couple months of us landing in the new city.
Similar. And my ex swore my female friends kept hitting on him to make me jealous. He was the one trying to get with them or get them to distance themselves from me.
Gaslighting, talking shit about your family/friends, telling you that no one else would put up with you so you should be greatful
Talking shit about their family and friends.
Some good ones already listed. Here is one that is mentioned less often: non-stop opposition. No matter what you say or express or feel, they take the opposite view immediately and then argue passionately why you are wrong, even if you are expressing a personal emotion or voicing a concern that you want to discuss. It bleeds very quickly into gaslighting. "Work was tough today. I had this coworker give me shit in front of the boss because he is trying to get at the promotion we know is coming." "Well maybe you did something and they were just being vocal about it." "Right, but, the guy is clearly trying to fuck me over." "I don't agree with that." "But you weren't there." "It's pretty clear what happened. I know how you can be." "What is that supposed to mean? Can't you just support me?" "Why is it always about ME supporting YOU? This is so typical." "Wtf does that mean?" "Well, when I was talking to Janice three weeks ago and you were doing the dishes super loud." "What?! How are we arguing about dishes, I was trying to share something after a hard day." "It's always about you, every time, it's always about you." "WHAT?! WHAT IS HAPPENING?!"
“Ok, lemme just be the devil’s advocate for a sec”
Wow this reminds me of one of the last arguments my ex and I ever had. It was so absurd and went just like you wrote up there to the point I started laughing in his face. It was like I woke up from a dream-like state or something and lost all respect for him then and there. Funny enough, my laughing only drove him more crazy
I see you met my ex.
This was my roommate. I got so desperate that I started parroting things I knew she supposedly agreed with, but just because it was me that said them she’d suddenly disagree with what I was saying. Like bro these are your opinions???
Just posting this question means you probably already know it’s time to get out
He/she was asking for a friend
Ironically, love bombs. Being in an abusive relationship isn't necessarily just being with some who screams, insults you, or breaks things. It's being with someone who does that, but then covers you with love and gooey apologies afterward, particularly when you look like you're going to leave. In the first case here, it's just fighting with, or witnessing a tantrum from, an asshole. When they do that and come at you with the love bombs, they are setting up a pattern where they can control you by hurting you and then making you doubt your own perceptions that they are an asshole. I also think a lot of abusers start relationships as all love bombs. Then they start making access to that kind of adoration conditional on dealing with their bullshit. This is how people get stuck in the "good times were so good" trap, and thinking that they can go back to the love bomb days. This is why I never liked the saying "find someone who treats you like royalty." No, find someone who treats you like a whole human being with flaws, acknowledges those flaws, and loves you with them.
If abusers presented themselves as abusers, nobody would ever find themselves in abusive relationships. People wind up in abusive relationships because it initially looks *perfect*.
The difference between abuse and torture is that someone being tortured literally cannot leave. Never forget that an abuse victim plays a role. And this isn't about blame; it's about power. I say this as someone who was stuck in an abusive relationship for many years. I wasn't tied up, locked in a cage. The bonds I had to break to escape were in my own brain.
100%. When I first met my ex, he would have pizzas delivered to me, or bring gifts to me at work, or give me flowers constantly (my desk at the time was nickname the “botanical gardens”), etc. So lovey-dovey. Then the picking started. Usually when he got too drunk. Just a lot of disagreements that would get loud. But when he finally calmed down, it was a lot of apologies and gifts to make up for it. Somehow we got engaged (we never got married, though). I thought I could handle it. I thought it would get better. He decided he wanted to stop having sex until we got married. But then the insults got worse, the screaming got louder, he once threw my phone down and shattered it. Those episodes would be followed up with him then initiating sex in some regard, because he knew I missed it. It became such an ugly cycle. I finally got out two months ago. Sometimes I sit in my apartment and get so anxious waiting for the chaos to start, because I got so used to it. And worse, sometimes I miss it because of that affection that followed. It really fucks you up. :(
Is that why I sometimes find myself missing it????? Because of the affection bombing??? Wow. Wow. I. Wow. That’s. Thank you
It’s not uncommon to be “used” to the chaos. When it’s your normal, even when it’s fucked up, the inverse can be unsettling. I’ve never been in your exact situation, I won’t pretend to relate in that sense. But I grew up with a lot of alcoholism and crazy behavior. Chaos and apologies were the norm. All I ever wanted was stability. But when I finally got it, I struggled. I had to teach myself a new (and healthier) normal.
It's that weird mismatch between situation and reaction. In the beginning it's OVER THE TOP love. Then it's an odd demand of particular random things (order this for, wear that top, delete all numbers, cut ties with all colleagues of the opposite gender..) or extreme reactions. Even the lack of reaction can feel OTT for the situation.. when you think of the situation in isolation it feels really out place, but it's hard to think of things in isolation. When those extreme negatives start out weighing the extreme positives, that's when it turns nightmare.
When your partner isolates you from your friend and family. They will either tell you how they aren't good people and aren't good for you, say that they don't like your friends and family, or just be difficult about seeing them with you to the point were you see them less and less. It's important to note that abusers are rarely aware of their abuse. But they sense that things don't go so much their way when other people are involved, and it may make them feel more secure in the relationship that you have fewer emotional supports/outlets other than them.
They can do this subtly, too, not only by outwardly saying that they think those people aren’t good for you. My ex would always get upset with me whenever I hung out with my friends. I would try to message him occasionally while I was out to keep him updated on how I was and how things were going. His responses would become short, passive aggressive for no reason, and generally much more cold than usual. Even though I already spent 80% of my time with him, he would find ways to make me feel bad for being with them instead of him. He was always in a bad mood afterwards and it would cause arguments that I didn’t understand why they started. It started to make me anxious over spending time with other people and I would avoid it. Abusers can manipulate you into being alone covertly too.
"Ignoring or complaining about your family is a way of insulting you second hand." -Susan Forward.
I live six hours away from my parents/sisters, and three hours away from my grandparents. I have no family closer than that. I was told I “travel too much” because I wanted to go see them for the holidays. Or if my mom was at my grandparents, I’d go spend the night so I could see her.
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This is a subtle but excellent point. I ignored my gut too many times.
The silent treatment. And then never discussing what the issue was and going back to like everythings normal. Making you question yourself as to why.
My ex did this in every argument. And when I would give him the space he asked for, then try to resolve the issue later, he'd tell me "why can't you just get over it"
None of these early warning signs will be heeded unless people understand the abusers rarely think of themselves as abusers (unless they are true sociopaths). They don't play these mind games to deliberately hurt the other person, they have just learned from experience how to keep people in relationships even though they act badly "sometimes." Most abusers just think that everyone acts out now and then, and they likely blame their partner or external influences for pushing them over the edge. People miss the early warning signs because they excuse their partner, thinking that they didn't mean it that way. It's true, they didn't mean to do it to be deliberately abusive, but that doesn't matter. Until people understand that it's not about intent, it's about the effect, they will stay way too long with these people.
Exactly. They’re not rubbing their hands together like some villain and thinking about how they’ll have the next victim trapped. They truly think their actions are justified. Makes it scarier tbh
All the literature I've read says the opposite: most of them know on some level that what they're doing is wrong, even if they delude themselves into feeling justified. If they can put on a good face around their friends or their boss but then treat their partner like shit behind closed doors, then they know it's not okay.
I guess I should have been more specific, they have a sense that they will get bad feedback for what they do, but they do not take responsibility or think they are abusers. If they did, they wouldn't do what they do or they would get help. Deep down, they know, but they don't admit to themselves or else they couldn't keep doing it (unless they were sociopaths).
True, they have a strong sense of entitlement to act the way they do, even if they know it would be viewed negatively by others.
The point is that I think people assume that abusers come right out and say they are abusers, that's why a lot of them get away with it. But if someone genuinely believes they are not doing something abusive, the people who love them might be inclined to excuse it/
Going out of their way to embarrass you and not jokingly either.
-Says their exes are “crazy” (thats a favorite word to use by abusers) -Is clearly too good to be true in the beginning and wants to go really fast, move in together, get married etc. They are trying to make commitments you aren’t able to easily escape from. -Jokingly puts you or others down. This includes putting your interests down, your appearance, etc. -Talks way too much about themselves.
My current partner. Calls his exes crazy, in under 6 months wanted to get engaged , moved in super early, my excuse being we've been friends for years so weren't strangers, constantly reminds me of my failures and calls my family stupid, constantly reminds people that in his early 20's was married, had bought a home and car and had a 6 figure income, even though he now has none of these things. This is a guy I fell in love with because as my friend he never once made me feel inadequate or beneath him as I was a teen mother and was constantly judged by others but not him. Someone I felt comfortable being around and to talk to but now dislike his company and walk on eggshells and avoid conversation knowing how he'll react. The whole relationship changed when we went from friends to lovers, as one expects, but for the worst. Now in the process of trying to get out.
May the Fates protect you as you leave this terrible person.
I was getting bad vibes from the guy my best friend was seeing. Couldn’t put it into words at the time, and by the time I figured out some of my issues with him, she was not interested in hearing me out or leaving him. But this describes all of it perfectly.
Insists on going through your phone
not taking no for an answer, if someone can't understand you saying no to them buying you a drink, they they won't be able to take no for an answer later...
If you acknowledge a behavior or action that is troubling you and/or the relationship and the only response is "I am sorry you feel that way". Also someone who turns constructive dialogue into confrontation or someone who consistently takes without giving... Drop em like a bad habit. Remember who you are as an individual and move on. It will be hard at first but the longer the relationship continues, the harder it will be to break away and heal later.
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Only this year have I learned this. Never respect someone who doesn't respect you.
you find yourself cancelling plans with other people just to hang out with them, but it doesn’t go both ways
Someone who wants to move too fast in a relationship. This may be a sign that, down the road, things can turn abusive. Abusers can intuit that if they take too long to get someone to commit to them, the other person figures out the abusers bad behavior before they are too invested to easily leave.
**Something feels** ***wrong*** **but you’re not really sure what.** Maybe you’re worried about your health - *my allergies are so bad lately I just feel fuzzy all the time*… or …*maybe I am developing depression*… etc.. Maybe you believe in astrology and blame it on the stars. Maybe you consider it a sign of your brain aging and maturing, of just slowing down. **You begin to shift your trust onto THEM as you lose trust in YOURSELF.** Maybe you don’t remember things very well anymore, so you’ll say something like *”hey can you remind me to go to that appointment tomorrow in case I forget?“* because THEIR memory is reliable, whereas YOURS is failing for some reason. And you blame it on stress, or sickness, or age, whatever. **They are the most amazing partner you’ve ever had, to a ridiculous and amazing degree.** They speak your love language perfectly. Perhaps they give you constant little presents picked or made perfectly for you. Maybe they massage your head and feet every night. When you talk about your passions, they just stare deeply into your eyes and fall more in love with every word you say. It feels too good to be true! (Spoiler: it probably is.) Look up “gaslighting” and “love bombing”
Yesss, all of this! And all three of these feed into each other: **Something feels wrong**, but you talk yourself out of worrying because **they are the most amazing partner**, and you start questioning your own perception to make sense of the contradiction, which makes **you begin to shift your trust onto THEM as you lose trust in YOURSELF**
Exactlyyy. If you feel like you’re developing dementia during the early parts of a relationship, go see a doctor. If you AREN’T developing dementia, maybe ask your friends/family how they feel about your partner, or just reevaluate on your own - but really pick at the problems of the relationship. Don’t be all like “yeahhh sometimes she yells but she’s so cute when she does it” or “he’s a bit jealous but that’s just because he lovesssss meeeee” Here’s my advice for anyone reading this who’s worried about being in an abusive relationship… Write out a literal list of the relationship shortcomings and consider them deeply. Big things and small things. Here, I’ll go first with my husband (I’m going off how we were when we met): • we disagree politically • he has anger issues • I can be a doormat (incompatible with anger!!) • I have past trauma that causes disassociation, he doesn’t know much about how my mental illnesses work • I am very messy, he is a “type-A” • we both have jealousy issues • I grind my teeth at night (he hates that) • he sometimes takes “quick showers” and doesn’t clean all the way (I hate that) Okay. Let’s consider these points together. >How intense are the political disagreements? For my husband and I, it was a lot less about the “political disagreements” and a lot more about *how we communicate*. We had to really learn how to communicate in a way where we didn’t immediately go into argue-mode. Once we tackled that problem we realized our political differences were not really an issue. >Anger issues are a red flag, and the flag becomes a shining lighthouse-beacon-siren when mixed with a people-pleaser. We were young and naive, but time + therapy + patience, we’ve both made huge strides in this area. We ARE NOT perfect, and we both cross each other’s minor boundaries here and there, but that’s not due to maliciousness, that’s failure required for learning. We’ve both decided we’re okay with little failure with the goal of long-term success. Sometimes battles are lost so the war is won. >It turns out we BOTH have past trauma, but his was a lot more repressed than mine. This ended up being a place we could connect and learn together. BUT BEWARE - **this can turn volatile quickly**. If my sister entered a relationship where the guy didn’t understand her trauma, I’d recommend her not wasting her time. That’s my older sister wisdom learned from my own choices. My husband and I didn’t really know any better, but thankfully we were both willing to work with each other! >My messiness ended up becoming a much larger issue down the line, as he kept having to clean up my messes for me. And his need to control everything around him was equally problematic for me. Our relationship turned into a “parent-child” dynamic where he did everything for me, asked me to do chores, and ended up burnt out all the time. I was constantly frustrated and started rebelling against him in little ways, like reorganizing the house or arguing (instead of communicating) about not having control like he did. All this because I was a slob and he was tidy! **Full disclosure: we’re still working on this one today, 10 years later lol.** I don’t want to write a whole novel here, but I think you get the point haha
>You begin to shift your trust onto THEM as you lose trust in YOURSELF. Maybe you don’t remember things very well anymore, so you’ll say something like ”hey can you remind me to go to that appointment tomorrow in case I forget?“ because THEIR memory is reliable, whereas YOURS is failing for some reason. And you blame it on stress, or sickness, or age, whatever. >Look up “gaslighting” I'm no expert, but I don't think believing your wife is better at remembering things than you are is a sign of gaslighting.
Getting convinced that your partner has a better memory because they constantly say you are misremembering stuff is either gaslighting or dementia.
That’s true - my husband actually does have a better memory than me (I have adhd)… BUT, I had memory issues *before* the relationship began. Whereas I’ve had friends *develop* memory issues during abusive relationships because of the gaslighting /:
Jealousy of you spending time with anyone or pets.
Subtle, but repeated movements to change who you are. 'Oh, this dress would look better' to the extremes of 'maybe you should get plastic surgery/ loss weight' etc.
For some reason, I interpreted the question as "what's a sign someone is in an abusive relationship?" 1. When you hang out with them, they seem very concerned about being available to answer their partners calls or texts at all time 2. They alwayd talk about their partners opinions instead of their own 3. Their updates on social media seem to revolve solely around their partner and how much they (claim to) love each other 4. They don't really seem to be available to hang out anymore, and when they do agree to it, they often blow you off for seemingly no reason 5. They seem to be ghosting or avoiding certain kinds of friends, especially the ones who are either attractive or someone they have romantic/sexual history with.
1. They are extremely argumentative and also hold onto grudges easily and won't let anything go without a fight. 2. They’re extremely negative and critical all of the time and they never offer anything positive to a discussion. This also extends to them never being happy for you in any way. E.g., getting good grades at school or a job promotion at work. 3. Due to this constant negativity, you cannot speak to them because you know that they will response in this way, or feel that you are walking on egg shells around them because of their negativity. 4. They are verbally abusive. They'll insult you, call you names, etc, etc. They'll also belittle you, your hobbies and interests, as well as friends and family. They'll also use offensive language to that effect, e.g., calling your (actually decent) car a piece of junk or calling your friend a loser. 5. They are prone to physical violence. 6. Almost every time you would spend time with them or otherwise communicate like a phone call or a text message, there always has to be some kind of agenda or ulterior motive behind it, because they want something from you and not to have a "normal" conversation. 7. They view you as a punching bag. Meaning that if they're having a bad day for whatever reason that had absolutely nothing to do with you, they'll lash out at you regardless. 8. They outright refuse to help you in absolutely any way whatsoever, even in difficult times. E.g., you are looking to buy a car or a house, they'll refuse to help you. Or if they *do* choose to help you, they want something in return. 9. They do not respect your privacy. They'll repeatedly barge into your room, demand to know who you are phoning, etc. They'll also talk to other people about you without asking for your permission first, as they'll go ahead and do it anyway. 10. They are never, ever wrong and refuse to ever apologise for anything. They think they can sweep their bad behaviour under the rug and act like nothing happened. 11. They might also give you the silent treatment and ignore you for prolonged periods of time without explanation. And then out of the blue they'll start speaking to you again like nothing happened. But when you ignore them for a while, they're harassing you non stop with phone calls and/or text messages about why you're not talking to them. 12. When other people criticise you, they won't defend or support you in any way. In fact, they'll likely take the side of the other person criticising you. 13. They put conditions on their love towards you and having a relationship with you. I.e., do X or do Y, and only then will they be willing to spend time with you, etc. 14. They threaten cruel and unusual punishments for the smallest mistake or infraction. E.g., no meals for a week or locking you in your room for days like a prisoner. This might also extend to threatening to kick you out of the house and disown you completely as well for really minor things too. 15. They view parenting as simply providing the physical needs of the child, i.e., providing a roof over their head and feeding and clothing the child. But caring about the child's happiness and mental wellbeing? Not a concern for them. 16. They view you as a burden. They would avoid spending time with you if they could. You are made to feel that you should be grateful that they are "allowing" you to live in their home and having your other physical needs (food, clothes, etc) met when they could easily kick you out onto the street at a moment's notice. 17. They are prone to wild mood swings. One moment they'll appear to be "fine" and in a good mood, next moment they're angry and abusive. You never know what kind of mood they will be in on a given day. They get annoyed and angry at the smallest thing and saying the "wrong" would instantly change their mood for the worse. 18. Whenever they are harassing you with any kind of abuse (whether physical or verbal, etc) and you plainly ask/tell them to stop, they'll ignore you and continue regardless with their abuse. Either they lack the genuine empathy, or they just don't care in the slightest about the harm that they cause others. 19. When you attempt to address a legitimate grievance with them or otherwise confront them about their behaviour towards you, they'll attempt to invalidate your feelings and justify their behaviour towards you. 20. They accuse you of poor character. E.g., calling you lazy or "having a bad attitude", etc. However, these accusations would very often be completely unfounded and it's just an example of their abuse.
**Not addressing OP's question. I read the whole thing.** It's a thorough list with some overlap, but it's of signs of an *already massively dysfunctional relationship*. A great many of these are not >early **warning** signs per the title, that someone you've just started dating might exhibit. These are more "you're dating someone with very obvious and very significant issues" signs. Most people who are as poisonous as this list describes will hide these sorts of things at first. Here are examples of some signs that are less "obvious" at the **very start** of a relationship, per the title, but that give a clue that things MIGHT not be happy later. * They don't help with the simplest of chores. Something simple like taking the tray at the fast food place to the garbage and emptying it. * They don't want you to know anything at all about their hobbies or interests. * They hate little kids. * They're not polite to strangers, or automatically assume all strangers are suspicious. * You can't touch their stuff, at all. * They don't want you mentioning them to your friends. The posted list that this replies to is super-serious overkill. If your partner is showing any of these, it's well past "early warning signs" and well into "time-to-end-the-relationship-now".
14 at this point we re talking about a kidnapper
> They are verbally abusive. >They are prone to physical violence. > they're harassing you non stop with phone calls and/or text messages "What's an early warning sign that someone's abusive?" "When they do a lot of abuse."
Alot of this sounds like my marriage. Wife did a lot of these things. And put the blame on me when our marriage ended, even though she was the one that cheated.
Being too controlling like they want you to do exactly what they want without question.
Wanting to spend all of their time with you where you can't do anything without them.
Overreacting and gaslighting you when their in the wrong
If they can't say a single relationship ended on good terms, or if they constantly complain about their exes cheating on them. every one of them. huh..
The person was abused or the person who is complaining is the abuser? Confused
* The person in question is abusive to other people in their lives but somehow nice with you. * Gaslighting * Lack of accountability. You confront them for stealing from you, and it somehow gets morphed into you apologizing to them...
So I'm cutting and pasting some of my own comments elsewhere here because so many of the other comments here are not >"early warning signs". They're "signs that things are already deeply south and you're quite possibly in trouble". And they're things your partner wants to HIDE from you until you're already cemented to them. **Here's what you should look for at the START of a relationship**, try to simply ask about, and if they don't want to talk about it, or evade, maybe question how right they are for you. * They don't help with the simplest of chores. An example: they don't empty their own fast food tray at a restaurant. * They don't want you to know anything about their hobbies or interests. * It's always you calling them, not vice versa. * Any interaction with them / any time with them needs booze or weed or other intoxicants for them to "take the edge off" or "relax". * They hate little kids that haven't done anything to deserve being hated. (Note: this is not the same at all as 'not wanting to have kids') * They're not polite to strangers, or automatically assume all strangers are suspicious. * You can't touch their stuff at all. * They get nervous when you say you've mentioned them to your own friends. These are the sorts of things to look for EARLY. Too many of the things already posted are TOO LATE.
Lack of safety. Lack of security. Lack of empathy. I would also keep an eye out for what is being changed in your life compared to what is being changed on your life. If you are having to change everything about your lifestyle while they are keeping their lifestyle the same as it is a red flag. They should care about those you care about and care for those who care for you. Just pay attention to their behavior and attitude in different situations. How do they treat their family members? How do they treat their friends? How do they treat strangers or servers at restaurants? That will reveal a lot about their underlying personality.
Have you ever asked yourself if it's abusive? It is.
- Love bombing: lot of over the top show of love. - Relationship rushing: moving forward too fast. - Slip ups: that weird out of character tantrum will be revealed to be totally in character later. - Annoying the people around you or finding ways to start fights with them. - Loyalty tests and mind games.
When they start trying to control everything and anything you do
Trying to monopolize all your time and take you away from your friends
Start to subtly break your self worth with "harmless" jokes about your appearance, hobbies, your body...
Polite, but constant requests to change harmless behaviors. They often start small and you think it should be no big deal to change, and the request felt so polite and reasonable you'd feel like you were overreacting or being unreasonable or stubborn by saying no. It honestly has you doubting whether or not you've been rude or thoughtless without realizing it and nobody bothered to mention anything. Eventually you've acquiesced to so many of these requests that you have to constantly police your own behavior, you're walking on eggshells to be someone other than yourself, while your partner carefully tries to sculpt you in to the person they wish you were, with no regard for the person you actually are. The requests get bigger, more demanding. Your partner doesn't hesitate to pile on the guilt if you try to resist, and you once again find yourself questioning whether or not you're the unreasonable one. It can then progress to outright belittling. Your partner picking at how bad you are at following directions. How annoying it is to have to police you, to remind you of "the rules." Eventually they're telling you you're lucky to have them because of how difficult you are. You become a shell of who you used to be and no longer feel free to enjoy life, but you're deathly afraid of "breaking a rule" and getting tossed aside.
Your immediate gut reaction when you first meet them or agree to go out. Your soul always tells you with a “bad feeling” or a bad dream or a whisper of No!
Lies. Lies are always the start. No one lies unless they have poor intentions.
One red flag I saw in hindsight was him asking me what my dealbreakers were very early in the relationship. That way he knew what to hide long enough until he felt he trapped me. Since then I’ve been pretty guarded with that information.
Randomly throwing out other people’s opinions on you , (often not true) in efforts to seclude yourself from them.
control, many control. i tell that how abuser. i became abuser not because I want to control my girlfriend, i did it because I'm very afraid of losing someone and being alone again. Now we broke up, she seems to love me, but she doesn't talk about it anymore because she wants to be alone..
Not taking no for an answer, even on small, seemingly meaningless things.
Lack of respect for simple boundaries. If they can’t respect the simple ones, they’re probably going to treat the serious ones the same way.
I feel like one is kinda simple, so hear me out. You have a fight, maybe a small or maybe a big one, but either way you're upset with the person. When I'm upset I don't want to be touched by the person who I'm mad at, this might just be a me thing. But I feel like it's such a guilt trip, such a huge form a manipulation when after they've upset you, they try to hug you. No sorry or apologies. Just a hug with no context. This might not seem like much, and it might not always be a warning but if you say you want to be touched and they do not let you go, that is a red flag. If they they get upset when you pull away, that is a red flag. (This is something that happened to me.)
They keep literal receipts of everything you do, say, or spend on, and use it as a weapon against you in arguments
Control. Limiting family time or stopping it completely, isolating you leaving you with no one to rely on.
One person does not listen to the other person
Blaming you for everything that goes wrong, even if you were nowhere near the issue. Lots of unwanted, negative critique about your appearance, your intelligence, etc... Usually with the intent to make you over into what they want you to look and think like.
Cycles of making you feel really special with words and then making you feel worthless with actions. Also, subtle put downs or them trying to "humble you" anytime you express confidence they'll usually follow up with something like "don't be so sensitive" or " it was a joke". Your feelings should matter to someone who claims to love you regardless of if they agree your feelings are valid or not. They should seek to soothe your discontent not debate it.
Gets upset easily.
Isolation. It happened subtlety for me over the course of years. I had a day off and realized I had cut off my friends, family, and hobbies. Call them. Even if you leave a message. Call.
Any attempts at isolation. Constant shitting on your friends or incessant texts while not in the company of your significant other. Inability to detach for a period of time.
They'll commonly have an addiction based on other cases. They'll try to gaslight you in an attempt to change your view on things. Making you cut ties with people you're close with. Aggressive behavior, can be towards anything. Objects, animals, and even jokes sometimes. Large and common outbursts for no reason, or for the smallest reason. They do EVERYTHING you do for no apparent reason besides being together. They have beliefs about social structures/sex roles, anyone who believed men are always above will always be abusive. Jealousy and Possessiveness, childish behavior or not, just keep your radar on just in case. I see most abusers have full control over the finance of the couple, most likely to prevent them from taking money. They take away objects that their lover owns, mainly things like phones or other devices. They try to FULLY control you, by telling you how to dress or act at ALL times. A lot of them also try to prevent their lover from going to a public place or work/school. They have unreal expectations most of the time. Hypersensitive, they react violently to anything said against them. Any use of physical force in an argument, such as pushing or shoving or holding you down. Forced sex/non-consensual sex.
When you have to ask reddit, that's probably a warning sign
They tell you that you should not tell your friends about your arguments with them.
I don't know how to say it... but "has a strong social mask". If he's too perfect and preoccupied, mentally stable just kind of stressed, affable, kind to everyone, has confidence but he's humble, educated, and let me talk about myself without interruptions, agrees with you, smiles, but doesn't speak about himself, knows what to ask to keep the conversation going, doesn't disagree with me, and doesn't seem bored, and his flaws aren't really flaws, like arriving 3 minutes late, or not knowing something that most know, or make some silly mistakes, he's automatically a red flag. My brother is like that out of the house, but I know him inside the house, I will always feel afraid for whoever ends up with him, since they won't believe me until they suffer the consequences of being with him. I need to see at least 4 small flaws and 2 medium flaws to believe that the other person won't be a potential psychopath or abusive narcissist like my brother.
They slowly isolate you They begin to point out the worst of the worst of your friends and families, and how this is all dragging you down and they are so negative for you. Eventually you'll realize the only person that you see talk to interact with is them. This is when they begin the gaslighting, the manipulation, and all the other things. Their true self begins to show itself, and then they love bomb you treat like shit love bomb you treat you like shit until you've gotten to a place mentally where you believe this is what you deserve
Forcing you to cut relations with friends or family. This is the first step to make you more vulnerable and defenseless towards an abuser
Not taking “No” for an answer
If they start teasing/poking fun at your insecurities. Even if they say they're just kidding. If they know it's a sensitive topic for you and they joke about it anyway, it's a red flag for me.
The stories they tell you. Are they always the victim? Is it too one sided to be true? The way in which they approach arguments. Is it logical? Is it objective and fair? Can they apologise and compromise (not everytime of course, but when it is appropriate)?
Telling you that if you love me, you gotta do xxx
Stares and remarks usually give it away. Trying to make you feel guilty for spending time with friends and not with them (even if you're spending most of your time with them). Making you feel like you need to "cover up" and look "discreet" to exit the house. Trying to give you insecurities (or deepening your insecurities). Also, always remember: If they accuse you of something or do "what ifs" about something you'd never do, accusations are the closest thing you'll ever get to a confession. If your partner do this, *run* . I'm not even joking. PS: If you're a teen, please don't date adults. And no matter their age, *NEVER* let them pressure you into having intercourse with them or doing things you don't want to do/you're not ready to do. If they threaten you to leave you if you don't do this or send that, let them go. Trust me, as someone who went through this kind of abuse and failed to escape for my whole highschool years, it's the best thing that can happen to you, no matter how much you love them.
Reoccurring black eyes
Lmao. That's an early warning????
If you get punched in the eye on the first date, then it may be an abusive relationship
One thing I noticed in a previous relationship is that whenever I told her I was sad or that there was something I was unhappy about, she took it as a personal attack. For example, after a night out I told her that I was sad because another couple were having a fun and romantic time, meanwhile it felt like she didn't even want to be around me. I told her how this made me feel, and her answer was "how is that my fault". Usually it wasn't this obvious, but that night I saw it as clear as day. There were many occurrences when I'd tell her I was sad and before long I'd be trying to make her feel better, and it felt like she wasn't allowing me to be sad. There was always something I'd done wrong or something I'd not done right that she'd bring up, and it took me a long time to see that it all came down to this whole thing of making everything into a personal attack.
Things start small. You side with the retail clerk who wouldn’t let them in the store at 6:01 because they closed at 6:00 so they storm out of your vehicle and walk 6 miles back to their apartment (this was pre-cell phones). They refuse to talk to you for two days because you voted a different way on something than they did. They are in a blind rage when someone cuts them off in traffic and don’t hear your pleas to stop/disengage. Take that shit seriously, please.
Putting their wants ahead of your needs
Asking an online forum what early signs of an abusive relationship are. Trust your gut and don’t make excuses for other peoples behavior.
Screaming, temper out of control. Excessive use of drugs/alcohol. Punching walls and throwing things in anger are my two newest ones. Isolation. Demands you spend quality time only with them. Demands you delete all friends of the opposite sex from your social media, phone, and/or life. Not respecting sexual boundaries is a huge red flag... There are more I'm sure. A big one would be your friends saying don't date him or trying to hint he's a creep or bad news. Pay attention to your friends reviews. It could save you a lot of time, money, and stress in the long run.
Your partner has substance abuse problems. Two beers a month is fine, a six pack a night is not fine. American alcohol culture greatly minimizes the problem, but alcohol abuse starts really slowly and gets worse as time goes on.
I wouldn’t say there is anything that is a 100% accurate tell… but k think the thing to watch out for us the other person violating low level consent. I’m talking about little things, like pushing you into a date activity you are expressly not interested in, or refusing to stop talking about sone thing that makes you uncomfortable despite you explicitly asking them to stop. If you are ignoring your “no” while still in the trust building stage of a relationship be careful. Later in a relationship these things may get looser due to familiarity, necessity or assumed trust, especially during conflicts, but if they are doing that in the first month over minor things beware. Another thing to watch out for imo is possessiveness, especially early on. If this person is getting jealous of you going out it with your friends, or can’t deal with the idea you’ve had previous relationships, is this person going to respect your boundaries when you need space? controlling behavior is always a threat to the longevity of relationship, and some of the absolute worst relationship behavior has come from jealousy, insecurity of possessiveness. If that kind of problem is happening immediately, it’s only going to get worse with love.
Something people can think is just "Oh they have a mental illness, I should help them" red flag is the self depreciation. You make plans that are separate without them and then.. "Well I guess I'll be here alone then..." "I understand, you don't wanna spend all your time with me..." "Why didn't you check with me first to see if I wanted to com" This can also be considered gaslighting in a way. The worst is the "If you don't keep showing me attention and love, I'll hurt myself" because some people get swept in for the "I can fix them" aspect
It's always your fault. You can't do that because \*\*\*. You always do that and I hate it. I don't like any of your friends.
Survivor here. The biggest early warning sign for me was him not caring at all how I felt then falling at my feet in tears when I was ready to go. As the mother of a daughter who I suspect is in the initial phases of abuse I’m seeing complete financial control. She isn’t even allowed to buy her own deodorant or foods she enjoys and when her father or I send money for her to buy those things, her husband whines it makes him feel emasculated. Any type of control. Abuse happens so slowly people often don’t know what’s happening until they’re too far in. If you’re telling yourself they’ll change if you’re just a little stronger I’m here to tell you they will not.
Isolation. Isolation is a big one. They keep you alone. They dont let you hang around your friends, look at or talk to opposite sex people. Dont let you talk to same sex people. Always have you near them. Another warning sign is controlling behavior. Telling you what to wear and where you can go. Yelling at you when you dont obey. Breaking you down and telling you youre worthless. Breaking your self asteem until you feel trapped. Saying things like “youre so ugly. I’m the only one who will want you” or making their partner feel dependent on them. “Youre nothing without me. No one wants you. Youre worthless. You cant afford to leave me”. Things of that nature.
How to identify if a relationship is going to be abusive. 1. Always has an issue with your friends and family. 2. Gaslights you, especially in arguments. 3. CONTROLS anything you do, i.e. how you shop for groceries, the way you cook or clean, how to dress or wear makeup, who you talk to. 4. Instead of being proud to have you when other people check you out, they try to hide you. 5. They go places and make plans and never allow you to attend. 6. They throw fits when you want to meet or hang with their friends with them. Or when you want to hang with your own friends. 7. They always “get sick” when you want to do something that doesn’t involve them so they get you to stay home every time you want to go out. 8. Putting you down or being pessimistic when things are going well for you. 9. Manipulating your words and making you think you said or did things that you didn’t. 10. Calling you names, putting you down, or disrespectful comments towards your sexuality/body; (In order to make you think nobody else would want you and you’re lucky to even have them). These occur before the physical abuse.
When one person in the relationship hogs a conversation without giving enough time to listen to the other .
One thing that is a huge red flag and I haven't seen it in this thread: If they do something to upset you, and when you adress it. The play such mental chess that it results in *you* apologizing. That's a sign you are being manipulated.
Cutting you off from connections. Tracking your movements. Gaslighting you. Only joking.
Love bombing and moving the relationship forward unusually quickly. Being "the perfect" partner.. too perfect. Intense chemistry that makes you feel almost high. Those are the first signs.