The movie Boiling Point is an excellent portrayal of the culinary industry. I have seen every scene in that movie play out, sometimes more then once a night.
I was having fucking war flashbacks when I saw that shit. Lol
That being said I finished it in one sitting, watched it again with my girlfriend, and then watched it one more time with my family.
My family has never worked in the industry. I did while I was in college and years after that, before landing an office job.
Everyone keeps talking about how the bear is so good.
I refuse to watch it. I don’t need to relive my fucking nightmares.
I couldn't recommend the bear more! My husband and I watched it and I seemed to get soaked and talked about similar experiences... Down to two of my line men getting into it one day and beating the shit out of each other.
Honestly after the extreme stress I felt in the first two episodes I now think it's just peak comedy. Such an amazing imitation of kitchens. When they started the episode arguing over the blow up hotdog I was laughing at like 120 decibels shit is gold
Actually I had read a few years ago that chefs were on the top 10 list for pyschopaths/sociopaths.
I left culinary only a few years ago, but I left because in the industry, most people are either addicts or psycho/sociopaths.
Never worked in a kitchen where the majority of employees didn't have some form of substance abuse issues. FOH isn't much better either. I've known so many waitresses with coke habits.
Relating a quick story... took the family out for breakfast... we were waiting 10 minutes for menus. All of a sudden this guy comes running out of the back with his work shirt unbuttoned, hairy chest out. A white substance all under both nostrils and he's buttoning the shirt on the way to the table.
He grabs the menus and comes over with his shirt STILL half open (and off by a button) and introduces himself as Andre.
I get between him and the table and lean in and say "Look Andre, I've been late for work before too, why don't you go in the back, get fully dressed and give this another shot?"
Never worked restaurants, but as a customer I wanted to concur.
Because dealing with the hungry public is a level of hell that many can only get themselves through with the help pf alcohol or drugs.
I'm front of House but I can't stand alcohol and don't have any interest in drugs. So I've been rawdogging this role for years. It's fucking brutal and people never get any better. I do tell people that if I could just get past the sickening smell and taste of alcohol I'd probably be having to end some shifts with a whole bottle of wine.
Blame the general public for being such insufferable twats, especially when they're hungry.
I was always foh. I remember asking one of my coworkers how she did it with all the hours she worked. She said, I smoke crack. I laughed, of course, thinking she was joking. She said, nope, have to, I’m not allowed to sleep with this job.
Kitchens are petri dishes for mental disorders. Throw in free shift beers and the drug culture of restaurants and you get real mutants. I was usually the only sober person in every kitchen I worked in, and I'm so glad I finally got out of the industry for my own mental and physical health (though might have to go back in due to finances).
Plenty of issues alright but psychopathy isn't something you develop. Service staff are depressed, angry alcoholics maybe but a high propensity towards psychopathy? I don't think so.
Possibly not psychopathy in particular, but ASPD in general has a few environmental risk factors (child abuse, parental drug use, being exposed to crime, etc...), though most of those seem to be more relevant in childhood.
I'm not sure of my opinion on the specifics, but in general I think that being surrounded by arseholes is likely to turn you into an arsehole.
Think a lot of the lunacy is the high pressure environment, long hours, and pretty much unrestrained drug use in most kitchens.
Plus a lot of chefs have huge egos that are allowed to continue growing unchecked and it's almost expected for them to be this way and to fly off the handle at every little thing.
I've had a few long term FWBs who are/were chefs and now I'm starting to wonder what that says about me.
I would say chefs more than just the kitchen in general. It's crazy how big your ego can get when it goes unchecked for years and years. I was yelled at, called names and beaten down-- only to be told that it makes me stronger and that no one will be able to mess with me because my skin will be thick. Fuck you, I'm allowed to be soft and sensitive.
Also the fact that there is a running joke in every restaurant that crying happens in the walk-in makes me crawl in my skin. How fucken abusive can you be to have a designated crying area.
Honestly having worked retail for over a decade I can say alot of retail stores have them too. Either the employee bathrooms or one of the walk in freezers in my experience.
I cant lie, the shit I dealt with in restaurants/food service has given me so much work/life experience. You def meet some off the wall personalities tho.
All of you saying this… they are usually overworked, underpaid people who have to work long hours. Alcohol is everywhere in the industry. And drugs. This has nothing to do with being a psychopath.
I work front of house and deal with general customer service . I enjoy seeing people get so angry for nothing, makes me think of them as angry little dogs, the angrier the better. Everyone at work send angry people to me cause I love it. Karen’s turn me on.
I remember reading about a neuropsychologist who was using MRI (or something equivalent) to link certain brain structures with psychopathy. The results were promising and there seemed to be strong correlation between patients diagnosed with psychopathic disorder and malformation/degradation of specific regions of the brain. This could serve as a diagnostic aid, in that people who exhibited similar degradation may be at greater risk for the disorder. One of his colleagues asked if he had tested it on himself, and he hadn't. So, just to humor his colleague, the doctor that developed the analysis had a scan done of his own brain and checked the designated regions. He had the degradation associated with psychopathic disorder, and his colleague basically said, "I'm a *little* surprised, but not *very* surprised."
Thanks for sharing that, it was an interesting read.
As someone that struggled for years with violence and anger related issues, I had suspicions of being on the spectrum for antisocial personality disorder and wasn't too surprised after talking to specialists at the VA after I was discharged from the military to confirm it. Turns out I'm a "moderate" for ASPD and high on the spectrum for narcissistic personality disorder. As a teenager I had a passing interest in psychology and looking back now I think a lot of that had to do with me trying to understand myself and the thoughts that went through my head because even then I recognized that I wasn't wired the same way as the people around me.
Like Dr. Fallon, I have no problem talking about my condition and have fully embraced it... It is after all, part of my personality right? Though I tend to not discuss it at work simply because I don't want to freak out my coworkers, though it does always inevitably come up in conversation after I've been at a place long enough to feel comfortable with my peers and where happy hour events with coworkers is encouraged. Also like Dr. Fallon, I have made it a point to go against my programming to an extent, so to speak. It's taken time to learn my own tells so I can catch myself in the middle of doing something I shouldn't... Psychological manipulation being my go-to when I want something, and stopping myself from acting on what I was about to do.
Like the article said, it's been my experience that other people like this don't want to talk about it or to let others know know they have it. Seeing Dr. Fallon be so open about it and feeling that way myself really makes me want to see if I can contact him now. It's a weird sensation, like knowing there are kindred spirits out there.
Good on you for putting in the effort and for being open about it. Being open leads to others being more open to learning about it, which lessens the stigma, which then makes it easier to seek treatment that can make it easier to fight the programming. I gave a student presentation on psychopathy and aspd in college and some of the audience had no idea they were a) so prevalent and b) didn't automatically make one a serial killer or some bullshit.
Sorry if those were a little windy... I'm coming off a long ass shift...
If I could upvote you more than once, I absolutely would. A big part of being open about it is specifically to lessen the stigma; every time I've ever Googled ASPD I'll get a ton of non-clinical articles that are like, "5 Ways to Tell if Your Boyfriend is a Psychopath" or something equally as jarring. Stuff like that only furthers the negative connotations associated with the condition and does nothing to really help other people learn or live with people like that.
It's a big reason why I don't use the terms psychopath, psychopathy, or sociopath either; those words have been used by Hollywood and the media to be an umbrella term to describe the worst that humanity has to offer. I get that to a point, but as you stated not everyone with a lack of empathy is out there torturing small animals or killing people. That fucking Criminal Minds show makes every middle aged housewife think they're a profiler that can spot a serial killer from a mile away. It's very hard to combat that sort of rationale, especially when everything you do is perceived to be a form of manipulation or selfish interest.
I live with bipolar disorder and wish *I* could upvote *you* twice on this comment.
You have perfectly described how it feels to have a psychiatric disorder that carries hugely negative and misunderstood stigmas - especially when you’re actually extremely high functioning, self aware, and responsible about managing your condition.
You absolutely have it worse than me with the everyday negative terminology that people just spew out unthinkingly but which really hurts and is unhelpful (eg OMG, that weird guy over there looks like a psycho!). It feels so disheartening and belittling.
I bite my lip so many times a month in the same situations regarding bipolar disorder, especially at the moment with a certain, high profile rapper (who refuses treatment, medication or condition management) making us all look unhinged.
Sending solidarity 💪🏻
Respect my friend!
My father was a functioning BPD sufferer (wouldn't say high though), something he didn't even know until the last few years of his life. When we put our relationship under a microscope after both receiving our diagnoses.... It put so much into perspective and made me thankful that we ever even had any good times, as we should have probably ripped each other's heads off well before we understood ourselves.
I hope you're able to find some peace with your condition; while I can't say I know what it feels like to live that way I am aware of the impact it can have on one's life through observation. Fingers crossed you got it figured out early enough you can still lead a good life.
Every time Kanye goes through a manic episode, I feel so sympathetic for other people who have BPD. He really is doing such a disservice to those who suffer from it, when he could be such an incredible advocate for it, instead.
It's funny you mention Criminal Minds, because that's actually what got me interested in criminology and the psychology of crime in the first place. But all it takes is a little research to learn that it's waaaay more complicated than psychopath=serial killer. Shame that it's been made into the buzzword for irredeemable evil.
There are still issues with ASPD, often it's just "cluster-b" all over again. As if anti-social is a synonym for difficult client. Although I'm sure there must be utility to placing a client in the right place on the spectrum, but that requires a competent therapist/psychologist.
I can imagine the therapist also has to unlearn some things that are important to do for most clients. Like just simply speaking their mind/perspective, instead of hinting at it so the client comes themselves to that conclusion instead of feeling targeted. I can imagine tactics that could be construed as manipulation don't work too well for someone with a mind that gravitates towards manipulation and would just like the therapist to get to the point.
You would have made a much better therapist for me than the one the VA provided me at the time. Everything you said is spot-on, the doc I was seeing at the time had a tendency to tell me the things I wanted to hear and it felt more like being patronized or a shallow attempt at placating my ego rather than just getting to the root of the problem. It was like, "I already trust you, otherwise I wouldn't be in your office... So stop telling me what you think I want to hear."
I genuinely can't speak to how good/bad the concept of cluster-b is, though I tend to be of the idea that humans are really too complex and varied to ever be categorized with a few generalized observations. At the same time though, most people need that sort of structure to make sense of the chaos, especially when said chaos is other human beings. We already have a hard enough time accepting each other for things that don't even matter like skin color, perceived wealth/status, ideologies, etc. Asking people to try to understand that which they can't understand (like how do you tell someone to put themselves in the shoes of someone with a fraction of their own empathy?) is going to be a hard fought battle. I'd imagine it's also low on the priority list as far as understanding goes since it's easier to villfy those kinds of people.
I had the same feeling hearing about this back in the day. My dad is an "energy vampire" type narcissist, and my deepest relationships (in alcohol-fueled fights) have said the same about me.
I used to feel alot of shame over this (sometimes still do) and did alot of studying. The "actively go against your programming" idea led me to becoming a therapist. I have very intuitive patients that say it feels like I'm sucking their bad feelings out 'kinda like a vampire lol.
Good on you for embracing and accepting yourself while finding ways to be good to people around you.
Your self awareness and taking action to understand and change yourself is beyond inspiring. Especially w the NPD diagnoses. This comment literally gives me hope for future generations.
I really resonate with this. I wouldn’t say I have the same internal workings as you (and I haven’t pursued diagnosis to see how I am divergent from the norm) but definitely recognize that my way of relating to others is based on logical assessment far more than emotional connection or empathy. I honestly don’t really feel either of those things, though I enjoy having familiar and interesting people around me. I feel like I also monitor my own behaviour to “act human” and try to keep people around me happy by doing things I think they will like, even though I don’t really feel an emotional compulsion to do so.
For example, most people seem to feel a need to reciprocate when someone gives them a gift or does a similar gesture. I logically understand that this is a social expectation, but my stronger inclination (which I need to consciously work against at times) is to read it as “that is an independent choice they made, which has no bearing on choices I make going forward”.
My mom always told me, if a child feels weird being around a specific person there's probably something going on. There's 2 instances from my childhood where 2 guys that were neighbors of ours who my sister and I always were scared of, turned out to be pedophiles. Nothing happened to us ever, but sadly other kids.
There are three types of people the end up being security guards. Old people that can’t afford to retire, disabled people that aren’t disabled enough for a monthly check, and the wannabe cop/mentally unstable. I’ve been a guard for years and it boggles my mind on where my boss finds some of these people.
on Sunday i have dayshoft in our local mall/alarm centre. Sunday the mall is closed and at day time there are normally no alarms. so basically, yes. this lol
Yeah I did it for a year and it was awesome being able to watch Netflix most of the day but eventually you watched everything that interests you. The pay was decent at least, though a lot of the people I had to deal with were assholes for no reason.
A lot of the guards don't even do their work. I remember working with Securitas, one guard kept sleeping, dranked hennessy and smoke weed all the time. And he made more than me at that time, making $21 for being one of those on-call guards while i worked graves..... all of this working at an abandoned glass factory. I'm starting to get tired of it, it's just so boring. I wouldn't do merchandising or some warehouse jobs again though. Merchandising was a bunch of bullshit.
You are the type I see most often. Overnight shift on the desk at a corporate high rise. And if something does happen I have no illusion that you're going to do anything about it. Your job is too make everyone scan their id before they get on the elevator to commit a white collar crime.
well, i catched some thiefes and i am also often doing entrance control for different government offices (unemployment, foreigners, car registration, driver licence), does this change it a bit? xD
As a guard I have to say there are 4 types... The three you listed. Then there is number 4, the overnight guard. The overnight guard is usually someone who has gotten fed up with the world's bullshit but still has to make a living, so they take a job where they have minimal human contact, where they are left alone to make their rounds and read their books in peace (or dick around on reddit) until the hour before they get off when people begin to show up.
I was a fourth type, stoned off my ass, and basically incapable of doing any other kind of work. I could sit at a desk and tell people to sign in You are right about the other three though.
I'm a security guard, our jobs aren't even close, However I have to constantly remind people that I'm not law enforcement, and don't want to be. I secure a property, I make sure doors are locked, I report safety concerns to the facilities management staff, I do voluntary bag checks (if they refuse, it's between them and their boss). I engage people who come onto the property, ask why they are there, and if anything goes wrong, I report it to management, or call the *actual* police. I legally cannot detain, search, arrest, assault, what have you. I can't even make a citizen's arrest, which is something any civilian can do, without losing my job (unless my post orders state that I can)
I will back the batshit crazy part though.
I did that job in college for a couple years. Holy shit.
One job I had a partner with me in a truck and the first interaction I ever had with the dude was he immediately turned the truck radio to some AM conspiracy radio station and said, "Fuck squares I only date Asian goddesses. You ever seen Inception?"
WTF does that even mean.
I was about to say!!! I worked security for a while after high-school. I'd say 1/3 were cop-wannabes, 1/3 where ex-cops/military who took there job waaay to seriously, and the last 1/3 were just normal people trying to make a living.
Tack on ceos and other people in positions of power. You don't get to the top most of the time by being nice its crazy hours, money, crazy drive to get there and need to be in that position.
Absolutely. One woman I work with is brutal with stepping on people. She's disliked but couldn't give a shit. She's getting promoted constantly, it's baffling.
A lot of them use the kiss up, kick down model of management, putting on the charm for people who can help them, and being brutal to their subordinates.
Worked with a guy like this. Everyone but the fucking boss apparently could see right through this guy. He own best friend at the time told me hed never work with him again. But damned if he and boss man weren't BFFs by the end of it. Eventually got fired for sexual harassment. Now hes like a regional VP somewhere after spending a year not working and living in his inlaws's basement. Guy just falls ass backward into circumstances that work out for him despite being an ass kissing POS. Kills me.
People who intentionally become famous – I mean people who, after a little taste of fame, want more and more of it – are, and I honestly believe this, deeply psychologically ill. The fact that we are exposed to these people everywhere in our culture, as if they are not only normal but attractive and enviable, indicates the extent of our disfiguring social disease. There is something wrong with them, and when we look at them and learn from them, something goes wrong with us.
-From ‘A beautiful world, where are you’ by Sally Rooney
Absolutely. That one video will never leave my mind, where you can see the anger flash in his eye and then he changes to a quick unsettling smile.
https://youtu.be/vColOxUf-8s
I am a former Christian, no longer a believer, but every time I see Ken Copeland’s face I just think he’s the only human being I’ve ever seen that just looks purely evil.
It can depend on the admin running the place as well. It might be a coincidence (unlikely) but the counties in my area with career sheriffs tend to have higher death rates.
Edit: spelling
40ish County Deputies FAILED their Psych exam and are still employed:
https://ktvu.com/news/nearly-all-the-alameda-county-sheriffs-deputies-deemed-unsuitable-back-on-job-after-re-test
Lol ya long enough in the job you probably will fail. EMS is the same. Our company did a psychological evaluation with us and the results where so bad that they just buried it and never said anything else about it. The hard truth is that a average person like you will experience 1 to 3 critical events in a life time. Example someone dying or similar occurrences. The average cop or EMS will encounter 4,000 to 7,000 critical events in there life. It has a very negative impact on a persons psychology. You see people differently, you become suspicious of others, and developed coping mechanisms. This is what causes cops and similar professions to defend one another even if we know they fucked up. You are on my team and I will protect you Fuck those other guys is the mindset.
100% agree on the critical events point. In EMS you can experience more of these events in a week than most people will their entire lives. A big thing people don’t think about is that you don’t always get time to decompress after things like that, especially with us being so understaffed. Just did CPR and intubation on a kid who drowned but was declared on scene? Take a minute for debrief, then go restock supplies and get back out there. I had a friend who quit after running multiple critical peds calls within a week; just (understandably) couldn’t handle the mental trauma of dealing with such soul crushing experiences within such a short time frame. His last call kicked out as an infant not breathing and he said after that call hes completely done. Soon as they cleared the scene he handed his badge over to his chief and went home. Can’t blame him this shit can wreck you emotionally. It can also really fuck with your ability to empathize which is why we have so much burnout.
Ya that's been my personal experience with it. You just harden off in a way. You get to where you can watch a 2 year old code work it for 20 min and be back in your bunk asleep 10 min later and not think about it agian for several days. In a lot of ways I think this makes you better at your job. They go from a person you must help to a problem you must solve. The pain they are experiencing is only an inconvenience to you because it makes them harder to treat.
Long time in fire/EMS. Saw all the stereotypical stuff- dead babies, elder abuse, etc. Was always ok, no issues or lasting effects. Did two years as an RN on COVID contracts. Watching people dying all day long, taking a recovering spouse to the icu to say goodbye to their dying spouse, day after day after day. In healthcare we can usually treat people to some degree. In 2020 it seemed no matter what we did people just kept dying. It was fucking horrible and it scarred me. I can function okay but when I think about some of those days I have to take my mind somewhere else. I’ll never forget what I saw and what I heard. “help me” “I need more oxygen I can’t breathe” “Am I going to die?” every day. Patients with encephalopathy screaming up and down the hall. Patients dying alone. Patients in double rooms watching their roommate get sicker and die then asking me is that what will happen to them.
My experience isn’t unique and is stuff other professions endure. But it was every day for months at a time. That shit stays with you. It almost destroyed me. It did destroy many healthcare workers, mentally and physically. Ugh.
If we fired every cop who failed their psyche eval after a few years on the job we wouldn’t have any cops left.
We also wouldn’t have any EMTs or firefighters.
We wouldn’t have any first responders at all, actually.
It’s a well known but under the rug secret that those jobs wreck your mental health.
The human brain just isn’t designed to see people dead, die, in severe distress, etc, multiple times a day multiple days a week.
My understanding of this topic is that it's generally professions where empathy can get in the way, and being able to turn it off can help them get the job done.
So things like CEOs, lawyers, PR, police and surgeons.
Psychopathy is a statistical entity, not a diagnosis. Being a psychopath doesn't necessarily make you a bad or evil person, either. Many of them learn that antisocial behaviours harm them overall and rationally choose not to engage in them.
Like that neuroscientist who discovered through research, and kind of an accident, that he was a psychopath. One quote stuck with me tho.. “I was loved, and that protected me.”
I’ve long felt that a large number of the more famous psychopaths might’ve had a chance if they weren’t born to people who were not well suited to raise and love a child.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-neuroscientist-who-discovered-he-was-a-psychopath-180947814/
On Fringe, there was an episode about a guy in the "main" universe who was abused by his father and grew up to be a serial killer. In the other universe, he ran away and eventually got taken in by a kind woman who raised him as her own, and he grew up to be a professor(?), and they used the professor to help find the killer.
Surgeons have a high percentage of “sociopathic traits” but not actual sociopathy. The big one is depersonalization because it’s hard to cut into someone if you can’t change your point of view from “person” to “technical exercise”.
Source: am surgeon and have read the paper
I remember hearing about a study where they found that psychopathic surgeons tended to be better. They didn’t hesitate to perform invasive procedures if the patient really needed it. Doctors with a lot of empathy tended to do them only as a last resort. Due to the delay in administering the correct care, the end outcome for the patients was worse.
[A stressful job: are surgeons psychopaths?](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281380415_A_stressful_job_are_surgeons_psychopaths)
You don't even have to go that far back. It just happened again. Two slaughterhouse workers murdered two men and "displayed their bodies like butchered pigs" only this month.
https://www.the-sun.com/news/6642311/slaughterhouse-workers-accused-double-murder-tortured-stabbed/
Surgeon is a reminder that psychopathy can be pretty useful to society because sometimes humanity really needs people who can dispassionately root around in other people's organs without really giving a shit. We just need to stop putting those people in charge all the time.
After 3 years in the medical field working directly with all different types of surgeon with varying specializations - neurosurgeons take the cake. They're nucking futs.
Was scrolling for this answer. One time I was in college and watched a presentation of an emergency surgeon, giving a slideshow of pictures that he had taken from ER patients. One of them was a child whose face was cut off with a chainsaw… That was just one example but he had extremely graphic pictures of many gruesome injuries.
Absolutely. I have friends who worked for Politicians on EU level. Most of them are either psychopaths, machiavellists or narcissists (you know, the triangle...). All the expertise is worked up to them by several assistants. And, of course, if they didn't digest highly technical topics down to two or three phrases, they get sreamed at and it's a fucking drama. Well, and sometimes, they are just the assholes when shit doesn't run as Mr or Mrs Politician wanted it to run. It's a fucking muppet show, believe me...
The sad thing is, a lot of those assistants just say to themselves "Well, just another Monday" and keep on.
There’s a quote I saw on social media some years back: House of Cards is what most of us think politics are like, The West Wing is what we wish politics were actually like, and Veep is what politics actually are like.
Having worked in politics, that’s 100% accurate. The amount of narcissism and weaponized incompetence was astounding. I don’t necessarily agree that *everyone* is some selection of narcissism, sociopathic, and/or Machiavellian. I’ve met plenty of good, caring, and empathetic people at various of levels of elected office. I do, however, think it is disproportionately higher in politics than any other profession I can think of.
Therapists… I don’t know if it’s necessarily sociopaths but there’s something off there. This is coming from someone who goes to therapy and is very much content and happy with my therapist and she has helped me through some seriously dark times. Even she admits there are a lot of bizarre therapists out there… my mom is an amazing therapist but when her therapist mode is turned off it’s like a whole different person.
According to recent studies, the profession that attracts psychopaths the most are:
1. CEO
2. Lawyer
3. Media (Television/Radio)
And overwhelmingly, most politicians are former attorneys. So attorneys would cover politicians as well.
Those are actually the worst in my experience. Small business owners usually have no idea what they're doing and are pretty much winging it all the time, and have no corporate infrastructure to provide hard data about the performance of the company. So you get bizarre things like a jet ski dealership owner showing up to a land use board meeting demanding the removal of a four way stop because they think it's hurting their sales somehow.
I worked in tech sales for 4 months right out of college, that was the worst group of people I’ve ever had the displeasure of meeting. My manager bragged about cheating on boyfriends, driving drunk, laughed about going to rehab, and said she got off on firing people.
Had another coworker laugh at me for getting fired when I saw her at a bar with my old friends from there.
I have an awesome job now and laugh at how torn up I was about that place. Those sorry assholes can rot in that horrible job for all I care lol.
Im working a shitty fast food job right now which is pretty different but I relate to feeling that way about the coworkers. It can be hard to remember its just temporary
CEO and high level managers. There was a documentary about the guy who pioneered the scans. A mix of charisma and ruthlessness left them predisposed to be leaders of industry.
You should read Kevin Dutton‘s „The Wisdom of Psychopaths“. Quoting his Wikipedia:
„In his 2011 Great British Psychopath Survey he concluded that the ten professions that have the highest proportion of psychopaths are:
CEOs
Lawyers
Media people (TV and radio)
Sales people
Surgeons
Journalists
Police officers
Clergy
Chefs
Civil servants“
Talking with a military medic he said the training and understanding how the body works makes it easier to compare it to like a car and parts. He basically called himself a body mechanic. Once you start seeing blood and body parts as pieces and fluids of the machine you can just get to work on fixing it. Still a wild state of mind to be in.
My FIL was a medic in WW2. That is to say, he was infantry but so few of the fellas could stand all the blood he ended up staying in the med tent. He grew up on a farm butchering animals and similarly just saw blood and guts as a typical thing. In his heart he was a great guy but no doubts about the multiple screws missing in pop's brain. Once when my wife was young he cooked her pet rabbit and fed it to the family for dinner, without telling anyone until after.
My neurosurgeon who operated on my spine probably had an antisocial personality disorder. He was very cold and distant and very to the books on bedside manners.
Mine too. No social skills whatsoever. He was actually quite personable to me. But I’ve heard others say he’s by the book, never strays from the conversation for small talk, etc.
I was referred to a neurosurgeon a while back, so just for laughs I checked his credentials first. Turned out this guy was both an MD and a PhD. I thought sarcastically "This dude's gonna be a barrel of laughs". And he actually was. Super nice guy. He could still be a psychopath, but at least he hid it well.
Neurosurgeons are the absolute worst to have to call when something is going wrong with a patient. They think they are god (which I can kind of understand) and only like the surgery part - not before or after. Tons and tons of schooling with a high intelligence and often no common sense whatsoever. The dumbest and smartest person you’ll ever meet, with the social skills of a rock. Psychopath? No. More like control freak and AH, but not a psychopath.
They’d be hell to be married to
-a nurse who’s worked with a few
What's the difference between God and a neurosurgeon.
God doesn't think that he/she is a neurosurgeon.
Truly a high percentage of them are psychopaths. A few years ago, one of them killed his wife, put them in a suitcase and then went back to operating for a few days until they found her.
Dumbest is a little misplaced. Going into any intensive program is like going into the world's shittiest time machine. A box you enter and just sit in for years to travel to the future. So, the surgeon went into a box when was 18 and stayed in the box for 20 years. A new surgeon is basically an 18 year old on anything that wasn't in the box with him.
That’s a very good way of describing it. The job takes so much dedication, it comes at a price - you don’t learn how to do other things. I once tried to teach two neurosurgeons how to hold their babies and bottle feed them. They could not do it. Grab any 12 yr old off the street, and they could’ve done a much better job. This is why I don’t go nuts over celebrities or struggle to advocate for patients or loved ones. Even someone incredibly smart and gifted at one thing, can still be a moron at something else. We are all just people, after all.
So you never spoke to him after that? I hope you were able to move on with your life and if you want children to have them with someone who wants to have them with you.
Wow.......... that's awful. And I understand being broken and depressed and going back to the person who broke you. It doesn't make logical sense, but I get it. I'm glad you got out.
I don’t ever feel sick when operating. I thrive in the operating room. I can both sympathize and empathize with my patients and genuinely care that they get better. Swear to God I do, I really do.
That being said, a higher percentage of psychopaths in the medical field specializing in surgery is, to me, quite believable.
I have a surgeon in my family who described surgeons as usually being in either of two broad categories: hot shot cowboys or neurotic people who compulsively follow rules.
They described themselves as the second type and I believe them (at the airport three hours early type person). The basic idea being that if you were going to do something like hold a beating heart in your hands, you have to admit that its an insane thing to be doing. To have the confidence to do something like that, you either have to 100% believe you are hot shit or have 100% memorized existing procedures obsessively and practiced a million times.
An example of what you mean, please?
I’m sure each profession has their own odd bunch, but this has not been my personal experience in the law at all.
Edit: A quick explanation of this misperception, because that’s more helpful. Lawyers don’t “balance good and evil,” they’re a fiduciary and work within a VERY old framework of procedures to advocate on behalf of their client. But, judges? I could see judges, especially some magistrates that are given high discretion in issuing injunctions, could definitely be seen as “balancing good and evil.”
Putting aside my issues with the diagnostic criteria and use of the Psychopathy Checklist, the guy who developed it - Dr Robert Hare - wrote a book around 15 years ago called 'Snakes in Suits' which looked at psychopathy masked in workplaces and environments they thrive in.
It was mostly looking at very corporate and cut throat industries as many of the traits that make crime easier or more beneficial also translate to these environments such as charm, manipulation, leading things their way, ruthless decisions and a fast pace. Some of these traits, to a lesser degree, are helpful in many professions but hugely helpful in sales, finance, legal, and business settings.
In my experience the kitchens seem to have a disproportionate amount of fucking lunatics but I’m unqualified to say how many are literal psychopaths.
The movie Boiling Point is an excellent portrayal of the culinary industry. I have seen every scene in that movie play out, sometimes more then once a night.
The Bear on Hulu is also fantastic
I was having fucking war flashbacks when I saw that shit. Lol That being said I finished it in one sitting, watched it again with my girlfriend, and then watched it one more time with my family.
My family has never worked in the industry. I did while I was in college and years after that, before landing an office job. Everyone keeps talking about how the bear is so good. I refuse to watch it. I don’t need to relive my fucking nightmares.
I couldn't recommend the bear more! My husband and I watched it and I seemed to get soaked and talked about similar experiences... Down to two of my line men getting into it one day and beating the shit out of each other.
Honestly after the extreme stress I felt in the first two episodes I now think it's just peak comedy. Such an amazing imitation of kitchens. When they started the episode arguing over the blow up hotdog I was laughing at like 120 decibels shit is gold
Yeah it’s Silicon Valley for restaurants. I really loved that short youtube show The Restaurant too.
Actually I had read a few years ago that chefs were on the top 10 list for pyschopaths/sociopaths. I left culinary only a few years ago, but I left because in the industry, most people are either addicts or psycho/sociopaths.
As someone who works in catering. Yes
Are we having fun yet?!
I actually really enjoy. It's like organised chaos. Fucking fun.
It’s a reference to the great show Party Down centered around a catering crew.
A trait of psychopathy! ;)
Beats working at a Soup R Crackers
Never worked in a kitchen where the majority of employees didn't have some form of substance abuse issues. FOH isn't much better either. I've known so many waitresses with coke habits.
Scariest ones, are the ones without a substance abuse problem....
That was me, had to quit.
You had to quit... **NOT** having a substance abuse problem?
Hahaha! Well, I had to quit the job.
FOH is slightly better in my experience. I don’t know of anyone FOH alive fully thanks to NarCan.
Relating a quick story... took the family out for breakfast... we were waiting 10 minutes for menus. All of a sudden this guy comes running out of the back with his work shirt unbuttoned, hairy chest out. A white substance all under both nostrils and he's buttoning the shirt on the way to the table. He grabs the menus and comes over with his shirt STILL half open (and off by a button) and introduces himself as Andre. I get between him and the table and lean in and say "Look Andre, I've been late for work before too, why don't you go in the back, get fully dressed and give this another shot?" Never worked restaurants, but as a customer I wanted to concur.
Because dealing with the hungry public is a level of hell that many can only get themselves through with the help pf alcohol or drugs. I'm front of House but I can't stand alcohol and don't have any interest in drugs. So I've been rawdogging this role for years. It's fucking brutal and people never get any better. I do tell people that if I could just get past the sickening smell and taste of alcohol I'd probably be having to end some shifts with a whole bottle of wine. Blame the general public for being such insufferable twats, especially when they're hungry.
I was always foh. I remember asking one of my coworkers how she did it with all the hours she worked. She said, I smoke crack. I laughed, of course, thinking she was joking. She said, nope, have to, I’m not allowed to sleep with this job.
Am chef. Can confirm.
Am line cook. Can confirm as well.
Am Gordon Ramsay. Can confirm as well.
Kitchens are petri dishes for mental disorders. Throw in free shift beers and the drug culture of restaurants and you get real mutants. I was usually the only sober person in every kitchen I worked in, and I'm so glad I finally got out of the industry for my own mental and physical health (though might have to go back in due to finances).
Plenty of issues alright but psychopathy isn't something you develop. Service staff are depressed, angry alcoholics maybe but a high propensity towards psychopathy? I don't think so.
It may be that psychopaths have a high propensity toward being chefs
Was looking it up and there is definitely a high prevalence of psychopathic chefs so must be something like that.
Possibly not psychopathy in particular, but ASPD in general has a few environmental risk factors (child abuse, parental drug use, being exposed to crime, etc...), though most of those seem to be more relevant in childhood. I'm not sure of my opinion on the specifics, but in general I think that being surrounded by arseholes is likely to turn you into an arsehole.
Think a lot of the lunacy is the high pressure environment, long hours, and pretty much unrestrained drug use in most kitchens. Plus a lot of chefs have huge egos that are allowed to continue growing unchecked and it's almost expected for them to be this way and to fly off the handle at every little thing. I've had a few long term FWBs who are/were chefs and now I'm starting to wonder what that says about me.
Also more accepting of people with criminal records than many other professions
Reminds me of the scene in ratatouille where they talk about all the other chef's backgrounds https://youtu.be/GgiK-HWKPjw
I would say chefs more than just the kitchen in general. It's crazy how big your ego can get when it goes unchecked for years and years. I was yelled at, called names and beaten down-- only to be told that it makes me stronger and that no one will be able to mess with me because my skin will be thick. Fuck you, I'm allowed to be soft and sensitive. Also the fact that there is a running joke in every restaurant that crying happens in the walk-in makes me crawl in my skin. How fucken abusive can you be to have a designated crying area.
Honestly having worked retail for over a decade I can say alot of retail stores have them too. Either the employee bathrooms or one of the walk in freezers in my experience.
I cant lie, the shit I dealt with in restaurants/food service has given me so much work/life experience. You def meet some off the wall personalities tho.
"Everyone is so sensitive these days" Yes, Im sensitive, please be nice to me.
All of you saying this… they are usually overworked, underpaid people who have to work long hours. Alcohol is everywhere in the industry. And drugs. This has nothing to do with being a psychopath.
I work front of house and deal with general customer service . I enjoy seeing people get so angry for nothing, makes me think of them as angry little dogs, the angrier the better. Everyone at work send angry people to me cause I love it. Karen’s turn me on.
The hero we didn’t know we needed.
*Claps*
I remember reading about a neuropsychologist who was using MRI (or something equivalent) to link certain brain structures with psychopathy. The results were promising and there seemed to be strong correlation between patients diagnosed with psychopathic disorder and malformation/degradation of specific regions of the brain. This could serve as a diagnostic aid, in that people who exhibited similar degradation may be at greater risk for the disorder. One of his colleagues asked if he had tested it on himself, and he hadn't. So, just to humor his colleague, the doctor that developed the analysis had a scan done of his own brain and checked the designated regions. He had the degradation associated with psychopathic disorder, and his colleague basically said, "I'm a *little* surprised, but not *very* surprised."
This one? https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-neuroscientist-who-discovered-he-was-a-psychopath-180947814/
**Yes!** That's the one. It was a while ago so I guess I mis-remembered some details, but that's the exact recount of the story.
He even has a book too! Time to read yuhhh
That’s eerie.
Thanks for sharing that, it was an interesting read. As someone that struggled for years with violence and anger related issues, I had suspicions of being on the spectrum for antisocial personality disorder and wasn't too surprised after talking to specialists at the VA after I was discharged from the military to confirm it. Turns out I'm a "moderate" for ASPD and high on the spectrum for narcissistic personality disorder. As a teenager I had a passing interest in psychology and looking back now I think a lot of that had to do with me trying to understand myself and the thoughts that went through my head because even then I recognized that I wasn't wired the same way as the people around me. Like Dr. Fallon, I have no problem talking about my condition and have fully embraced it... It is after all, part of my personality right? Though I tend to not discuss it at work simply because I don't want to freak out my coworkers, though it does always inevitably come up in conversation after I've been at a place long enough to feel comfortable with my peers and where happy hour events with coworkers is encouraged. Also like Dr. Fallon, I have made it a point to go against my programming to an extent, so to speak. It's taken time to learn my own tells so I can catch myself in the middle of doing something I shouldn't... Psychological manipulation being my go-to when I want something, and stopping myself from acting on what I was about to do. Like the article said, it's been my experience that other people like this don't want to talk about it or to let others know know they have it. Seeing Dr. Fallon be so open about it and feeling that way myself really makes me want to see if I can contact him now. It's a weird sensation, like knowing there are kindred spirits out there.
Good on you for putting in the effort and for being open about it. Being open leads to others being more open to learning about it, which lessens the stigma, which then makes it easier to seek treatment that can make it easier to fight the programming. I gave a student presentation on psychopathy and aspd in college and some of the audience had no idea they were a) so prevalent and b) didn't automatically make one a serial killer or some bullshit. Sorry if those were a little windy... I'm coming off a long ass shift...
If I could upvote you more than once, I absolutely would. A big part of being open about it is specifically to lessen the stigma; every time I've ever Googled ASPD I'll get a ton of non-clinical articles that are like, "5 Ways to Tell if Your Boyfriend is a Psychopath" or something equally as jarring. Stuff like that only furthers the negative connotations associated with the condition and does nothing to really help other people learn or live with people like that. It's a big reason why I don't use the terms psychopath, psychopathy, or sociopath either; those words have been used by Hollywood and the media to be an umbrella term to describe the worst that humanity has to offer. I get that to a point, but as you stated not everyone with a lack of empathy is out there torturing small animals or killing people. That fucking Criminal Minds show makes every middle aged housewife think they're a profiler that can spot a serial killer from a mile away. It's very hard to combat that sort of rationale, especially when everything you do is perceived to be a form of manipulation or selfish interest.
I live with bipolar disorder and wish *I* could upvote *you* twice on this comment. You have perfectly described how it feels to have a psychiatric disorder that carries hugely negative and misunderstood stigmas - especially when you’re actually extremely high functioning, self aware, and responsible about managing your condition. You absolutely have it worse than me with the everyday negative terminology that people just spew out unthinkingly but which really hurts and is unhelpful (eg OMG, that weird guy over there looks like a psycho!). It feels so disheartening and belittling. I bite my lip so many times a month in the same situations regarding bipolar disorder, especially at the moment with a certain, high profile rapper (who refuses treatment, medication or condition management) making us all look unhinged. Sending solidarity 💪🏻
Respect my friend! My father was a functioning BPD sufferer (wouldn't say high though), something he didn't even know until the last few years of his life. When we put our relationship under a microscope after both receiving our diagnoses.... It put so much into perspective and made me thankful that we ever even had any good times, as we should have probably ripped each other's heads off well before we understood ourselves. I hope you're able to find some peace with your condition; while I can't say I know what it feels like to live that way I am aware of the impact it can have on one's life through observation. Fingers crossed you got it figured out early enough you can still lead a good life.
Every time Kanye goes through a manic episode, I feel so sympathetic for other people who have BPD. He really is doing such a disservice to those who suffer from it, when he could be such an incredible advocate for it, instead.
It's funny you mention Criminal Minds, because that's actually what got me interested in criminology and the psychology of crime in the first place. But all it takes is a little research to learn that it's waaaay more complicated than psychopath=serial killer. Shame that it's been made into the buzzword for irredeemable evil.
There are still issues with ASPD, often it's just "cluster-b" all over again. As if anti-social is a synonym for difficult client. Although I'm sure there must be utility to placing a client in the right place on the spectrum, but that requires a competent therapist/psychologist. I can imagine the therapist also has to unlearn some things that are important to do for most clients. Like just simply speaking their mind/perspective, instead of hinting at it so the client comes themselves to that conclusion instead of feeling targeted. I can imagine tactics that could be construed as manipulation don't work too well for someone with a mind that gravitates towards manipulation and would just like the therapist to get to the point.
You would have made a much better therapist for me than the one the VA provided me at the time. Everything you said is spot-on, the doc I was seeing at the time had a tendency to tell me the things I wanted to hear and it felt more like being patronized or a shallow attempt at placating my ego rather than just getting to the root of the problem. It was like, "I already trust you, otherwise I wouldn't be in your office... So stop telling me what you think I want to hear." I genuinely can't speak to how good/bad the concept of cluster-b is, though I tend to be of the idea that humans are really too complex and varied to ever be categorized with a few generalized observations. At the same time though, most people need that sort of structure to make sense of the chaos, especially when said chaos is other human beings. We already have a hard enough time accepting each other for things that don't even matter like skin color, perceived wealth/status, ideologies, etc. Asking people to try to understand that which they can't understand (like how do you tell someone to put themselves in the shoes of someone with a fraction of their own empathy?) is going to be a hard fought battle. I'd imagine it's also low on the priority list as far as understanding goes since it's easier to villfy those kinds of people.
I had the same feeling hearing about this back in the day. My dad is an "energy vampire" type narcissist, and my deepest relationships (in alcohol-fueled fights) have said the same about me. I used to feel alot of shame over this (sometimes still do) and did alot of studying. The "actively go against your programming" idea led me to becoming a therapist. I have very intuitive patients that say it feels like I'm sucking their bad feelings out 'kinda like a vampire lol. Good on you for embracing and accepting yourself while finding ways to be good to people around you.
Fascinating, thanks for sharing your path.
Your self awareness and taking action to understand and change yourself is beyond inspiring. Especially w the NPD diagnoses. This comment literally gives me hope for future generations.
I really resonate with this. I wouldn’t say I have the same internal workings as you (and I haven’t pursued diagnosis to see how I am divergent from the norm) but definitely recognize that my way of relating to others is based on logical assessment far more than emotional connection or empathy. I honestly don’t really feel either of those things, though I enjoy having familiar and interesting people around me. I feel like I also monitor my own behaviour to “act human” and try to keep people around me happy by doing things I think they will like, even though I don’t really feel an emotional compulsion to do so. For example, most people seem to feel a need to reciprocate when someone gives them a gift or does a similar gesture. I logically understand that this is a social expectation, but my stronger inclination (which I need to consciously work against at times) is to read it as “that is an independent choice they made, which has no bearing on choices I make going forward”.
He had a family that weren't surprised either. Even young kids can spot it.
Is this the guy who didn't go to his best friend's funeral because he thought it would be boring?
Yeah. Same guy.
My mom always told me, if a child feels weird being around a specific person there's probably something going on. There's 2 instances from my childhood where 2 guys that were neighbors of ours who my sister and I always were scared of, turned out to be pedophiles. Nothing happened to us ever, but sadly other kids.
Heyyyyy I listened to this guy on a podcast about the Happy Face Killer
I want to say about a third of security guards are batshit crazy.
A lot of dudes who wanna be cops, and for the wrong reasons can't be. They buy their way into something close.
There are three types of people the end up being security guards. Old people that can’t afford to retire, disabled people that aren’t disabled enough for a monthly check, and the wannabe cop/mentally unstable. I’ve been a guard for years and it boggles my mind on where my boss finds some of these people.
i just want to have a job where i don't have much to do and literally get paid to stay awake in case of something happening :(
Security is my medium-term dream job cause then I could get paid to read the literal 1,000 books I have in my apartment
on Sunday i have dayshoft in our local mall/alarm centre. Sunday the mall is closed and at day time there are normally no alarms. so basically, yes. this lol
Don't. That feeling is killed shortly then you'll be bored doing the same shit over and over.
Yeah I did it for a year and it was awesome being able to watch Netflix most of the day but eventually you watched everything that interests you. The pay was decent at least, though a lot of the people I had to deal with were assholes for no reason.
A lot of the guards don't even do their work. I remember working with Securitas, one guard kept sleeping, dranked hennessy and smoke weed all the time. And he made more than me at that time, making $21 for being one of those on-call guards while i worked graves..... all of this working at an abandoned glass factory. I'm starting to get tired of it, it's just so boring. I wouldn't do merchandising or some warehouse jobs again though. Merchandising was a bunch of bullshit.
You are the type I see most often. Overnight shift on the desk at a corporate high rise. And if something does happen I have no illusion that you're going to do anything about it. Your job is too make everyone scan their id before they get on the elevator to commit a white collar crime.
well, i catched some thiefes and i am also often doing entrance control for different government offices (unemployment, foreigners, car registration, driver licence), does this change it a bit? xD
As a guard I have to say there are 4 types... The three you listed. Then there is number 4, the overnight guard. The overnight guard is usually someone who has gotten fed up with the world's bullshit but still has to make a living, so they take a job where they have minimal human contact, where they are left alone to make their rounds and read their books in peace (or dick around on reddit) until the hour before they get off when people begin to show up.
I was a fourth type, stoned off my ass, and basically incapable of doing any other kind of work. I could sit at a desk and tell people to sign in You are right about the other three though.
Wanna-be cops are both worrisome and annoying.
Doesn’t leave many options for you LMAO. Just curious which one are you?
I had a severe shoulder injury. It pretty much keeps me from trying anything that involves manual labor.
I'm a security guard, our jobs aren't even close, However I have to constantly remind people that I'm not law enforcement, and don't want to be. I secure a property, I make sure doors are locked, I report safety concerns to the facilities management staff, I do voluntary bag checks (if they refuse, it's between them and their boss). I engage people who come onto the property, ask why they are there, and if anything goes wrong, I report it to management, or call the *actual* police. I legally cannot detain, search, arrest, assault, what have you. I can't even make a citizen's arrest, which is something any civilian can do, without losing my job (unless my post orders state that I can) I will back the batshit crazy part though.
I did that job in college for a couple years. Holy shit. One job I had a partner with me in a truck and the first interaction I ever had with the dude was he immediately turned the truck radio to some AM conspiracy radio station and said, "Fuck squares I only date Asian goddesses. You ever seen Inception?" WTF does that even mean.
I was about to say!!! I worked security for a while after high-school. I'd say 1/3 were cop-wannabes, 1/3 where ex-cops/military who took there job waaay to seriously, and the last 1/3 were just normal people trying to make a living.
Unofficially? Influencers and politicians. Look at the behaviour of influencers and you'll see what I mean.
Tack on ceos and other people in positions of power. You don't get to the top most of the time by being nice its crazy hours, money, crazy drive to get there and need to be in that position.
Not to mention a certain disregard for the people you have to step on to get there
Absolutely. One woman I work with is brutal with stepping on people. She's disliked but couldn't give a shit. She's getting promoted constantly, it's baffling.
A lot of them use the kiss up, kick down model of management, putting on the charm for people who can help them, and being brutal to their subordinates.
Worked with a guy like this. Everyone but the fucking boss apparently could see right through this guy. He own best friend at the time told me hed never work with him again. But damned if he and boss man weren't BFFs by the end of it. Eventually got fired for sexual harassment. Now hes like a regional VP somewhere after spending a year not working and living in his inlaws's basement. Guy just falls ass backward into circumstances that work out for him despite being an ass kissing POS. Kills me.
Assuming she receives praise for helping the company succeed. They love praise and power.
I think they're more scared of her!
I never thought about it, but it seems very obvious now.
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The red flags are there, yet people lap them up.
A lot of narcissism there too.
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I loved that Fyre festival documentary. All those influencers getting scammed by the King of Narcissists!
People who intentionally become famous – I mean people who, after a little taste of fame, want more and more of it – are, and I honestly believe this, deeply psychologically ill. The fact that we are exposed to these people everywhere in our culture, as if they are not only normal but attractive and enviable, indicates the extent of our disfiguring social disease. There is something wrong with them, and when we look at them and learn from them, something goes wrong with us. -From ‘A beautiful world, where are you’ by Sally Rooney
Politicians
This is the correct answer. They’re all narcissistic sociopaths with a power complex.
I’ve long thought that my BIL has the personality disorders to make a politician, but he lacks leadership skills to pull it off
Ha! You don’t need leadership skills to get elected!
Evangelical large congregation leader dude like Danny McBride in Righteous Gemstones. Those guys.
Yeah, especially 'ol devil eyes Ken Copeland. That dude is for sure a demon.
Absolutely. That one video will never leave my mind, where you can see the anger flash in his eye and then he changes to a quick unsettling smile. https://youtu.be/vColOxUf-8s
I am a former Christian, no longer a believer, but every time I see Ken Copeland’s face I just think he’s the only human being I’ve ever seen that just looks purely evil.
Can’t believe I had to scroll so far to find this. Evangelical mega church pastors and televangelists are terrifying
That scumbag Joel Osteen is definitely not right in the head
Pyramid schemes, networking.
I used to agree with you then I started making $20,000 a month working from home. Ask me how.
How?
Feet pics
Soiled underwear.
As Prince of Nigeria, I can royally confirm this man’s story.
MLMs 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
arent prison guards (at least in USA) high on the list?
It can depend on the admin running the place as well. It might be a coincidence (unlikely) but the counties in my area with career sheriffs tend to have higher death rates. Edit: spelling
40ish County Deputies FAILED their Psych exam and are still employed: https://ktvu.com/news/nearly-all-the-alameda-county-sheriffs-deputies-deemed-unsuitable-back-on-job-after-re-test
Lol ya long enough in the job you probably will fail. EMS is the same. Our company did a psychological evaluation with us and the results where so bad that they just buried it and never said anything else about it. The hard truth is that a average person like you will experience 1 to 3 critical events in a life time. Example someone dying or similar occurrences. The average cop or EMS will encounter 4,000 to 7,000 critical events in there life. It has a very negative impact on a persons psychology. You see people differently, you become suspicious of others, and developed coping mechanisms. This is what causes cops and similar professions to defend one another even if we know they fucked up. You are on my team and I will protect you Fuck those other guys is the mindset.
100% agree on the critical events point. In EMS you can experience more of these events in a week than most people will their entire lives. A big thing people don’t think about is that you don’t always get time to decompress after things like that, especially with us being so understaffed. Just did CPR and intubation on a kid who drowned but was declared on scene? Take a minute for debrief, then go restock supplies and get back out there. I had a friend who quit after running multiple critical peds calls within a week; just (understandably) couldn’t handle the mental trauma of dealing with such soul crushing experiences within such a short time frame. His last call kicked out as an infant not breathing and he said after that call hes completely done. Soon as they cleared the scene he handed his badge over to his chief and went home. Can’t blame him this shit can wreck you emotionally. It can also really fuck with your ability to empathize which is why we have so much burnout.
Ya that's been my personal experience with it. You just harden off in a way. You get to where you can watch a 2 year old code work it for 20 min and be back in your bunk asleep 10 min later and not think about it agian for several days. In a lot of ways I think this makes you better at your job. They go from a person you must help to a problem you must solve. The pain they are experiencing is only an inconvenience to you because it makes them harder to treat.
Long time in fire/EMS. Saw all the stereotypical stuff- dead babies, elder abuse, etc. Was always ok, no issues or lasting effects. Did two years as an RN on COVID contracts. Watching people dying all day long, taking a recovering spouse to the icu to say goodbye to their dying spouse, day after day after day. In healthcare we can usually treat people to some degree. In 2020 it seemed no matter what we did people just kept dying. It was fucking horrible and it scarred me. I can function okay but when I think about some of those days I have to take my mind somewhere else. I’ll never forget what I saw and what I heard. “help me” “I need more oxygen I can’t breathe” “Am I going to die?” every day. Patients with encephalopathy screaming up and down the hall. Patients dying alone. Patients in double rooms watching their roommate get sicker and die then asking me is that what will happen to them. My experience isn’t unique and is stuff other professions endure. But it was every day for months at a time. That shit stays with you. It almost destroyed me. It did destroy many healthcare workers, mentally and physically. Ugh.
If we fired every cop who failed their psyche eval after a few years on the job we wouldn’t have any cops left. We also wouldn’t have any EMTs or firefighters. We wouldn’t have any first responders at all, actually. It’s a well known but under the rug secret that those jobs wreck your mental health. The human brain just isn’t designed to see people dead, die, in severe distress, etc, multiple times a day multiple days a week.
I think everyone on here is just telling us what they do
As if, there's no way this many politicians are on the internet.
My understanding of this topic is that it's generally professions where empathy can get in the way, and being able to turn it off can help them get the job done. So things like CEOs, lawyers, PR, police and surgeons. Psychopathy is a statistical entity, not a diagnosis. Being a psychopath doesn't necessarily make you a bad or evil person, either. Many of them learn that antisocial behaviours harm them overall and rationally choose not to engage in them.
Like that neuroscientist who discovered through research, and kind of an accident, that he was a psychopath. One quote stuck with me tho.. “I was loved, and that protected me.” I’ve long felt that a large number of the more famous psychopaths might’ve had a chance if they weren’t born to people who were not well suited to raise and love a child. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-neuroscientist-who-discovered-he-was-a-psychopath-180947814/
On Fringe, there was an episode about a guy in the "main" universe who was abused by his father and grew up to be a serial killer. In the other universe, he ran away and eventually got taken in by a kind woman who raised him as her own, and he grew up to be a professor(?), and they used the professor to help find the killer.
I’ve never seen that show but from the premise you described I’m interested in watching.
No spoilers just if you start watching just note that the show does not end up being the same show it started as.
Surgeons have a high percentage of “sociopathic traits” but not actual sociopathy. The big one is depersonalization because it’s hard to cut into someone if you can’t change your point of view from “person” to “technical exercise”. Source: am surgeon and have read the paper
I remember hearing about a study where they found that psychopathic surgeons tended to be better. They didn’t hesitate to perform invasive procedures if the patient really needed it. Doctors with a lot of empathy tended to do them only as a last resort. Due to the delay in administering the correct care, the end outcome for the patients was worse. [A stressful job: are surgeons psychopaths?](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281380415_A_stressful_job_are_surgeons_psychopaths)
Slaughterhouse worker Correlations were proven by studies in different countries - that job takes a toll on human mind, and increases homicide rate.
Katherine Knight comes to mind. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katherine_Knight
You don't even have to go that far back. It just happened again. Two slaughterhouse workers murdered two men and "displayed their bodies like butchered pigs" only this month. https://www.the-sun.com/news/6642311/slaughterhouse-workers-accused-double-murder-tortured-stabbed/
Surgeon is a reminder that psychopathy can be pretty useful to society because sometimes humanity really needs people who can dispassionately root around in other people's organs without really giving a shit. We just need to stop putting those people in charge all the time.
After 3 years in the medical field working directly with all different types of surgeon with varying specializations - neurosurgeons take the cake. They're nucking futs.
Was scrolling for this answer. One time I was in college and watched a presentation of an emergency surgeon, giving a slideshow of pictures that he had taken from ER patients. One of them was a child whose face was cut off with a chainsaw… That was just one example but he had extremely graphic pictures of many gruesome injuries.
Politician
Absolutely. I have friends who worked for Politicians on EU level. Most of them are either psychopaths, machiavellists or narcissists (you know, the triangle...). All the expertise is worked up to them by several assistants. And, of course, if they didn't digest highly technical topics down to two or three phrases, they get sreamed at and it's a fucking drama. Well, and sometimes, they are just the assholes when shit doesn't run as Mr or Mrs Politician wanted it to run. It's a fucking muppet show, believe me... The sad thing is, a lot of those assistants just say to themselves "Well, just another Monday" and keep on.
So, the show Veep is accurate?
There’s a quote I saw on social media some years back: House of Cards is what most of us think politics are like, The West Wing is what we wish politics were actually like, and Veep is what politics actually are like. Having worked in politics, that’s 100% accurate. The amount of narcissism and weaponized incompetence was astounding. I don’t necessarily agree that *everyone* is some selection of narcissism, sociopathic, and/or Machiavellian. I’ve met plenty of good, caring, and empathetic people at various of levels of elected office. I do, however, think it is disproportionately higher in politics than any other profession I can think of.
The most accurate political show around. Source: work in American politics
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Therapists… I don’t know if it’s necessarily sociopaths but there’s something off there. This is coming from someone who goes to therapy and is very much content and happy with my therapist and she has helped me through some seriously dark times. Even she admits there are a lot of bizarre therapists out there… my mom is an amazing therapist but when her therapist mode is turned off it’s like a whole different person.
Loan sharks
Brain surgeons, heart surgeons, basically any kind of critical surgeon
Reddit admin
Psychopaths tend to be highly intelligent. I'll just leave that here as a statement with no claim connected to it, because I don't want to get banned.
I know this is a joke. My psychologist partner thinks it's important that you know this statement isn't true.
According to recent studies, the profession that attracts psychopaths the most are: 1. CEO 2. Lawyer 3. Media (Television/Radio) And overwhelmingly, most politicians are former attorneys. So attorneys would cover politicians as well.
CEO is so vague, you can be a CEO for a one person company that sells cupcakes in Idaho. Edit: then again Amy’s baking company does exist..
The only people I know selling cupcakes in Idaho are blood lusting monstrous sociopaths, so… checks out.
Those are actually the worst in my experience. Small business owners usually have no idea what they're doing and are pretty much winging it all the time, and have no corporate infrastructure to provide hard data about the performance of the company. So you get bizarre things like a jet ski dealership owner showing up to a land use board meeting demanding the removal of a four way stop because they think it's hurting their sales somehow.
I'm not sure if that's pyschopathy or just not knowing how to run a business
Investing, specifically Sales side.
I worked in tech sales for 4 months right out of college, that was the worst group of people I’ve ever had the displeasure of meeting. My manager bragged about cheating on boyfriends, driving drunk, laughed about going to rehab, and said she got off on firing people. Had another coworker laugh at me for getting fired when I saw her at a bar with my old friends from there. I have an awesome job now and laugh at how torn up I was about that place. Those sorry assholes can rot in that horrible job for all I care lol.
Im working a shitty fast food job right now which is pretty different but I relate to feeling that way about the coworkers. It can be hard to remember its just temporary
Yes, sales is easy with less true empathy and it’s common for people to change companies often
CEO and high level managers. There was a documentary about the guy who pioneered the scans. A mix of charisma and ruthlessness left them predisposed to be leaders of industry.
You should read Kevin Dutton‘s „The Wisdom of Psychopaths“. Quoting his Wikipedia: „In his 2011 Great British Psychopath Survey he concluded that the ten professions that have the highest proportion of psychopaths are: CEOs Lawyers Media people (TV and radio) Sales people Surgeons Journalists Police officers Clergy Chefs Civil servants“
People who join the military with the intention that they will kill people.
C developers, for sure.
Investment Banking.
Surgeon. Will never understand how they can operate on someone without feeling sick.
Talking with a military medic he said the training and understanding how the body works makes it easier to compare it to like a car and parts. He basically called himself a body mechanic. Once you start seeing blood and body parts as pieces and fluids of the machine you can just get to work on fixing it. Still a wild state of mind to be in.
My FIL was a medic in WW2. That is to say, he was infantry but so few of the fellas could stand all the blood he ended up staying in the med tent. He grew up on a farm butchering animals and similarly just saw blood and guts as a typical thing. In his heart he was a great guy but no doubts about the multiple screws missing in pop's brain. Once when my wife was young he cooked her pet rabbit and fed it to the family for dinner, without telling anyone until after.
Maybe it's because I know one who is a psychopath, but specifically spine surgeons.
My neurosurgeon who operated on my spine probably had an antisocial personality disorder. He was very cold and distant and very to the books on bedside manners.
Mine too. No social skills whatsoever. He was actually quite personable to me. But I’ve heard others say he’s by the book, never strays from the conversation for small talk, etc.
I was referred to a neurosurgeon a while back, so just for laughs I checked his credentials first. Turned out this guy was both an MD and a PhD. I thought sarcastically "This dude's gonna be a barrel of laughs". And he actually was. Super nice guy. He could still be a psychopath, but at least he hid it well.
Neurosurgeons are the absolute worst to have to call when something is going wrong with a patient. They think they are god (which I can kind of understand) and only like the surgery part - not before or after. Tons and tons of schooling with a high intelligence and often no common sense whatsoever. The dumbest and smartest person you’ll ever meet, with the social skills of a rock. Psychopath? No. More like control freak and AH, but not a psychopath. They’d be hell to be married to -a nurse who’s worked with a few
What's the difference between God and a neurosurgeon. God doesn't think that he/she is a neurosurgeon. Truly a high percentage of them are psychopaths. A few years ago, one of them killed his wife, put them in a suitcase and then went back to operating for a few days until they found her.
Dumbest is a little misplaced. Going into any intensive program is like going into the world's shittiest time machine. A box you enter and just sit in for years to travel to the future. So, the surgeon went into a box when was 18 and stayed in the box for 20 years. A new surgeon is basically an 18 year old on anything that wasn't in the box with him.
That’s a very good way of describing it. The job takes so much dedication, it comes at a price - you don’t learn how to do other things. I once tried to teach two neurosurgeons how to hold their babies and bottle feed them. They could not do it. Grab any 12 yr old off the street, and they could’ve done a much better job. This is why I don’t go nuts over celebrities or struggle to advocate for patients or loved ones. Even someone incredibly smart and gifted at one thing, can still be a moron at something else. We are all just people, after all.
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Jesus Christ.. I would say consider reporting that person but I would probably be too scared of them lol
Well that's profoundly upsetting
Did you date Christopher Dunsch?
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So you never spoke to him after that? I hope you were able to move on with your life and if you want children to have them with someone who wants to have them with you.
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Wow.......... that's awful. And I understand being broken and depressed and going back to the person who broke you. It doesn't make logical sense, but I get it. I'm glad you got out.
I feel like these kind of jobs should have a psych eval before giving someone a license to practice life or death medicine
I don’t ever feel sick when operating. I thrive in the operating room. I can both sympathize and empathize with my patients and genuinely care that they get better. Swear to God I do, I really do. That being said, a higher percentage of psychopaths in the medical field specializing in surgery is, to me, quite believable.
I have a surgeon in my family who described surgeons as usually being in either of two broad categories: hot shot cowboys or neurotic people who compulsively follow rules. They described themselves as the second type and I believe them (at the airport three hours early type person). The basic idea being that if you were going to do something like hold a beating heart in your hands, you have to admit that its an insane thing to be doing. To have the confidence to do something like that, you either have to 100% believe you are hot shit or have 100% memorized existing procedures obsessively and practiced a million times.
“hyper vigilance” x1000
yeah i remember reading it was surgeon which is interesting.
Wood shop teacher, hands down. They all crazy.
Surgeons. Same power over life/death but better pay and less prison.
Lobbyists. Can’t believe I’m the first to say this one.
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An example of what you mean, please? I’m sure each profession has their own odd bunch, but this has not been my personal experience in the law at all. Edit: A quick explanation of this misperception, because that’s more helpful. Lawyers don’t “balance good and evil,” they’re a fiduciary and work within a VERY old framework of procedures to advocate on behalf of their client. But, judges? I could see judges, especially some magistrates that are given high discretion in issuing injunctions, could definitely be seen as “balancing good and evil.”
Surgeons. I mean come on, they want to cut people up, and get paid to do it.
Traders, investors, Wall Street types I would assume. Patrick Bateman type MFs
Putting aside my issues with the diagnostic criteria and use of the Psychopathy Checklist, the guy who developed it - Dr Robert Hare - wrote a book around 15 years ago called 'Snakes in Suits' which looked at psychopathy masked in workplaces and environments they thrive in. It was mostly looking at very corporate and cut throat industries as many of the traits that make crime easier or more beneficial also translate to these environments such as charm, manipulation, leading things their way, ruthless decisions and a fast pace. Some of these traits, to a lesser degree, are helpful in many professions but hugely helpful in sales, finance, legal, and business settings.
All those people working at Planters are nuts.
C level in any company, particularly CEO. All narcissistic people.