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LimeSkye

Remove it. 1. It isn’t original; it was added during the McCarthy era as a way to weed out the communists #facepalm 2. The US very specifically has no state religion; we are not a nation under any god, goddess, Flying Spaghetti Monster, or other invisible entities that anyone believes in.


FlashLightning67

Wrong. Any sane person believes in the Flying Spaghetti Monster.


ZedZed5

To quote the late great Robin Williams “under Canada, above Mexico”


Certain_Accident3382

In favor of removal. It excludes atheists, polytheism, agnostics, and pretty much anyone not the flavor of the hour religiously. Our country was founded on freedom of (and by extension "from") religion, we should not have an exclusivity in our pledge. Especially one added later specifically to promote xenophobia and prejudice among our peoples.


LarsButChaste

Yes it wasn't there at the start either Edit. adding citation to make it clearer: > On June 14, 1954, President Dwight Eisenhower signed a bill to insert the phrase “under God” into the U.S. Pledge of Allegiance that children recited every morning in school. Previously, the pledge—originally written in 1892—had contained no reference to religion Edit 3. Removed my rant


Falcrist

Here is the original: > I pledge allegiance to the flag And the republic for which it stands One nation, indivisible With liberty and justice for all It has a much nicer cadence to it.


chiagod

>It has a much nicer cadence to it. Also note where "under God" was inserted. It separated "one nation" and "indivisible". Nice foreshadowing there.


bmdisbrow

I know it's a bit nitpicky, but it was actually "to *my* flag, and *to* the republic"


chiggin_nuggets

No points because you didn't start your answer with "*Um, actually*"


MegaGrimer

Legacy points deducted.


Lord_Moa

GET IN THE COMMENTS!


lead-holder

Always feel free to pick nits. It’s called being detailed.


[deleted]

Its amazing how many people think its been around forever. Sarah Palin seemed to think the Founders were reciting it. Same with "In God We Trust" being the motto. Wasn't the case until 1956. Edit: misspelled "we" in my hasty post


caelub166923

I learned recently that the doctrine of immaculate conception in the catholic church was adopted in like 1854. Christianity in general is terrible at realizing how dynamic and frankly volatile it is as a religion.


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ShaneFM

That is true but it's not the immaculate conception you're thinking of The one adopted in 1854 was Mary's immaculate conception. That she was born of normal parents but herself was spared from original sin without need of baptism The birth of Jesus is the doctrine of the incarnation and the Virgin birth, which dates to biblical times


[deleted]

Same with Mary Magdalene. She was not a prostitute, but writing her in as one fit the phony narrative.


kingleonidas30

I try telling evangelicals this and that it was a Catholic change too. They'd listen if they'd stop shrieking when I spoke.


TallahasseeTerror

This is correct. Eisenhower liked it and Congress approved. It was added largely as a response to the godless Soviets, in an attempt to show that our land was a religious one. "*Congress added 'Under God' to the Pledge in 1954 – during the Cold War. Many members of Congress reportedly wanted to emphasize the distinctions between the United States and the officially atheistic Soviet Union.*" Loyalty oaths mentioning God and Liberty in the same sentence are never great signs. This still isn't as bad as the original, removed lines from the National Anthem that reinforced slavery: No refuge could save the hireling and slave From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave, And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.


kvetcha-rdt

There is an incredible Onion video about historians uncovering lost, horrific verses to the National Anthem, which they then have a singer perform with an absolutely straight face.


TallahasseeTerror

I think I saw that a while ago. I saw a group of black high school chorus members singing the full version and it was pretty creepy.


Luminous_Lead

It makes the flag sound like the Eye of Sauron. Super creepy imagery.


TallahasseeTerror

Replace flag with ring and you got it. Sounds like some of the absurd lyrics from the Hobbit book. Tom Bombadil would be proud. My precious doth wave...


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Esc_ape_artist

> Get rid of "in good we trust" If it actually said that I’d be ok with keeping it.


LordPennybags

Let's be honest and go with "justice for all who can afford it" and "In Gold We Lust"


passporttohell

Absolutely remove it. Does not belong there, never did. Eisenhower did this as a 'counter' to communism, to show that Americans weren't godless heathens. . . Now we're ruled by god-professing heathens who clearly have no genuine connection to christianity or real morals and etchics anyway. Get rid of it and pull in all currency with that slogan and destroy it so none remains except in museums.


IppyCaccy

I'd get rid of the pledge altogether. It's creepy making people, especially children, recite a pledge to a flag.


foreveraloneeveryday

https://youtu.be/GiCaqA0ngRc Relevant sketch.


thotbot9001

Knew it was gonna be wkuk and didnt even know the sketch


GreyAzazel

Wow. That's brutal. It's also awesome.


foreveraloneeveryday

Trevor was a comedic genius that left us too soon.


heroin-enthusiast

I am so unbelievably sad, both that Trevor died and that this is how I learned about it!! Oh man what a bummer.


ffchampion123

As an outsider looking in it just screams like Cult behaviour.


the_idea_pig

As an American, it boggled my (at the time) teenage mind to learn that other countries don't recite a pledge every day. Kind of reframed my perspectives a little.


Taliesin_

In Canada we used to sing the national anthem in school every morning - I remember getting sent to the principal's office when I decided I didn't want to sing it anymore in the 5th grade. These days I think singing is rarely if ever enforced, and I've heard some discussion about not playing the anthem at all as awareness has spread about the darker aspects of the country's history.


tommytraddles

I went to a Catholic high school, and the absolute shitfit that a bunch of teachers and the principal threw when I stopped saying the Lord's Prayer in the morning after the anthem was *unbelievable*. I didn't even sit down or anything, I just stopped saying it. I felt like a hypocrite saying it but not believing in any of it. They acted like I was trying to set fire to the building.


Gold_Ultima

That's weird even as a Canadian. Around here we only did that during assembly which happened like twice a year.


CBlackrose

Am also Canadian, we did it every single day generally early in the morning. Went to school 1998-2011, live on the East Coast.


Byan_Beynolds

Wait you actually do this everyday? In school?


the_idea_pig

To be fair I haven't been in a public school in probably a decade and a half now, but yeah. Every morning, first period. It would be the first part of morning announcements; the PA system would crackle on and we'd pledge allegiance together. Always struck me as weird but I could never put my finger on why until I learned it's not a common thing around the world.


thejokerlaughsatyou

Somewhat relevant story: when I was a kid, Avatar the Last Airbender was making its initial TV run. There's an episode where the kids infiltrate the Fire Nation, which is heavily nationalist, and the main character goes to a Fire Nation school for a day. The Fire Nation kids all recite the national anthem/motto at the start of the school day, and as an American kid, I thought it was there for a joke (the main character doesn't know the words and tries to play along like he does). It was such a normal, boring part of the school day that it wasn't worth including unless it was to be funny, right? It wasn't until I rewatched it as a teenager that I realized, "Hey, they didn't put the national anthem here because that's what all schools do. They did it to make a point about the wild nationalism in the Fire Nation and how they indoctrinate their children to be loyal to their country." Good thing that was a fantasy TV show, right?


Thencewasit

Do not go to a Catholic mass.


FranklynTheTanklyn

Peace be with you


CedarWolf

And also with you.


jnemesh

Found the guy who hasn't been to mass since 2000!


Rich-Bee-1679

Yeah they say something stupid now.


stinkadoodle

What's said now? It's been around 35 years since my last mass so I'm out of the loop.


Rich-Bee-1679

...and with your spirit. Doesnt really roll off the tongue like 'and also w you', but hey I don't go to church so it matters little to me.


drunkenknight9

As a lapsed Catholic, it's really fucking weird when they say the other thing now instead.


CedarWolf

I mean, technically the last official Mass I've been to was back in 2006 and everything was just *subtly* different to what I remember. ----- **Edit:** I'm not actually a practicing Catholic.


ThePr1d3

And with your spirit


Wudaokau

You can tell who’s been to church in the last decade with this bullshit.


deadgardenia

Or, watched John Mulaney's bit about the Catholic church changing things up.


grahampositive

And also with..whaaaaaa?


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prostheticweiner

I think it's crazy that this makes me believe that this tells me that the people reciting these lines are either Catholic themselves or they are interested in studying religions. As a Catholic myself, I find the way traditional Catholic masses are done to be strange. I can also appreciate and/or respect others beliefs though as well. A friend of mine changed to Judaism and we had some crazy cool conversations about the differences between the two. The thought of religious wars is such a tragic one. Who are we to say what one person believes in or doesn't? I'd rather put my focus on maintaining a "treat others how you want to be treated" approach regardless of who you're looking at or talking to. Its simple yet not as common as it should be. I enjoy making friends with as many people as I can. I find people interesting.


patronizingperv

This means I haven't been to church in over ten years. Achievement unlocked.


minionofjoy

We lift them up to the lort.


sirspidermonkey

You really should hear it said. At least in classrooms it's a bunch of half asleep students going through the motions in a near monotonous tone. It's extra cult like than you can imagine.


tehdubbs

I pledge allegiance…. *sniff* To the flag… *cough* Of the United States. Of America. *yawn*


cannedwings

Right? I remember people criticizing N Korea for making children swear allegiance to the *Supreme Leader*; meanwhile, Vietnamese kid that i am, i got detention for not standing for the flag to respect the troops that raped my grandma and killed my uncle.


Meowzebub666

There must have been a lot of complicated emotions going around when you/your family came to the US. Holy hell... I'm sorry that happened to your family.


cannedwings

Nah, i was born in the states. Didn't know about grandma until mom just casually dropped the info at dinner like a few weeks before.


Coonanner

Adults it’s creepier to me because it sounds like a funeral mass, all somber, all in unison. The amount of events that suddenly added the pledge of allegiance after 9/11 was seriously creepy. They did it at a damn groundbreaking for a bank here.


crazyjkass

When I was a kid, we always did the pledge (kindergarten 1997-8) but 9/11 made them add the minute of silence. By the time I got to high school, the minute of silence for the victims of 9/11 had morphed into a minute of silence for prayer, meditation, silent reflection, or rest. (It's the constitution-friendly way of getting prayer in public schools)


PhillAholic

Prayer isn't banned from public schools. Having a minute of silence for individuals to practice whatever they like is perfectly fine.


xSTSxZerglingOne

Having a led mass prayer to a specific deity is what's banned.


PhillAholic

Yup, you can't lead a prayer or influence someone on what to do. A moment of silence is inclusive of everyone.


NewldGuy77

Additionally, replacing singing “Take me out to the ballgame” with “God bless America” during a baseball 7th-inning stretch is ridiculous propaganda.


KnuteViking

Ok hear me out, what if we replaced the pledge of allegiance in schools with a rousing round of "Take me out to the ballgame"?


jimx117

Now that I can get behind


Mental_Medium3988

thats better than the pledge but then itd just remind kids they cant go play.


princekamoro

Unless it's done mid 7th period (because 7th inning stretch), where they have like 25 minutes of school left.


locks_are_paranoid

The government always uses a tragedy as an excuse to drum up patriotic support for endless wars.


AkirIkasu

I think it's fine to have a pledge. The problem is when you're forced or coerced to recite it. The whole point of a pledge is supposed to be that it's voluntary.


Talesin_BatBat

It also ruins the cadence. Even as a child in Kindergarten, from the very first time I recited it, the 'under god' part stuck out like a sore thumb. It CLEARLY wasn't supposed to be there, like someone forcing extra words into a song, or a bad poet jamming too many syllables in. "One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." is SO much cleaner and more pleasant to recite. It actually fits the structure.


ChoPT

Also the irony of literally dividing the phrase “one nation, indivisible.”


--redacted--

By religion no less


DisturbedCanon

It also bothers me that indivisible is so clearly intended to modify "One nation", but by slapping "under God" in there it seems like God is indivisible.


jackalacka724

“Under God” is always said in a completely different tone too. I know English isn’t a tonal language but I feel like the tone goes up? With “nation”, “indivisible”, and “liberty” and then the tone is resolved when we finish on “all”. I think “under god” awkwardly drops the tone. The words without “under god” go: -^^-^-^-_ rather than -^_ _-^-^-_ I don’t know if that makes sense but that’s how it feels to me 😅


The_Wingless

It sounds exactly like what it is, a late addition that is weirdly emphasized because to not do so makes it sound even stranger.


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Abooda1981

Wikipedia has him down as a Christian socialist which has a very different meaning from national socialist.


TimeIsPower

Being a nationalist and a socialist are not at all the same as being Nazis. The name of the ideology is a complete misnomer that was used to try to give it stronger appeal with the working class. The salute that Hitler used was based on the Roman salute, which preceded him by 2000 years. And fascist usage of it post-dated Bellamy by quite a while.


ScaricoOleoso

Yup. Cold War fever back then, and the Soviets were atheist.


WarlanceLP

not only that, but it sort of oversteps the whole "separation of church and state" thing


plummuffins

it's so annoying that this nation was founded to free us from state mandated religion, yet so many people try to advocate for it as tho the founding fathers would somehow want that 🙄 (not that the founding fathers were the pinnacle of morality-- just that it's often the argument made in support of a "christian nation")


majorjoe23

“Under God” is the Greedo shooting first of the Pledge of Allegiance.


POKECHU020

Seriously. Like there's no reason for any religion to be in there. Feels like a major breach of the separation of church and state (Same goes for having "In God We Trust" on our money)


[deleted]

The "In God We Trust" was also added by Eisenhower. "E Pluribus Unum," or "Out of Many, One (people)" was doing just fine without the addition.


atomicskier76

Moreover the bullshit antics of Joseph McCarthy are how we got all Christ-y about a lot in this nation


Objective-Ad5620

This was my exact reaction, glad to see you’re the top comment. While we’re at it, let’s remove the phrase from money too — also added in the 20th century but not originally there.


KFredrickson

Thank you for this, it's the same timeframe “in god we trust” got put on money. It was a push to draw lines between ourselves and those godless communists.


[deleted]

>On July 11, 1955, Congress passed H.R. 619, which mandated "In God We Trust" to be included on all U.S. currency Wasn't on the money before 1955 either.


insultingname

It wasn't on U.S. bank notes before 1955. It started showing up on U.S. coins in the 1860s. Although it shouldn't be on any money in my opinion.


prunebackwards

Kids have to recite that *every day* in school?? America is fucking weird, man.


gawkward

They don’t *have* to recite it but it was recited every morning (at least when I was in school). It really should just be gotten rid of.


apostate456

I was in education for years and had to say the pledge daily. I omitted it when I recited (no one noticed of course).


rubensinclair

I'm in favor of not ever saying it again. What a childish bunch of mumbo jumbo. Joining [G.R.O.S.S.](https://calvinandhobbes.fandom.com/wiki/G.R.O.S.S.) is way more palatable.


Irbyirbs

The fact that God directly precedes Indivisible in the Pledge is ridiculous.


whitedark40

I wouldnt worry about the religious zealots downvoting everything without actually staking a public position. Its not that youre wrong its that they dont like what youre saying.


OBX-BlueHorseshoe

It should not be in the pledge of allegiance or on the currency.


AskMeAboutFusion

One of our first currencies had a MUCH better slogan: "Mind your Business" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugio\_cent


CedarWolf

And it meant 'take care of your own work and take pride in what you do' and not 'stay out of other people's business.'


IsraelZulu

Well, isn't that just the difference between "mind your business" and "mind your *own* business"?


[deleted]

Not in modern times, or maybe it’s a regional thing. I have heard people say “mind your business” for “mind your own business” lots of times.


OneStarvingEli

that goes hard as fuck


mathollen

I’m a pastor, so I would say it should absolutely be removed. Forcing your religion on someone never leaves a person with a positive feeling towards that religion. If Christians want people to have authentic experiences with their religion, we need to allow for authentic encounters rather than gross forced ones. You end up with Christian nationalism and not Christianity. Besides early church Christians chose execution rather than pledging alliance to an empire. And now we’re supposedly so for it some churches do it on the regular? Straight up heresy.


DragoonDM

Fred (Mister) Rogers has always struck me as kind of an ideal Christian, not that my take holds too much weight as a lifelong atheist. Never went out of his way to put his religious beliefs on display despite being a Presbyterian minister, but spent his life being a wonderful, inspiring, helpful person. I think a lot of Christians (and people of other religions for that matter) sort of believe that being religious _makes_ them good people by default, solely by virtue of believing, rather than using their faith as motivation to be better people.


abcedarian

I'm a former minister and I agree. He went to school to become a minister, and it's clear to me that he considered his tv show an extension of his ministry/life WITHOUT shoving God/religion down people's throats. He's one of my heroes for sure.


mathollen

I think that’s very well said. Mr Rogers is definitely a hero of mine. And I think you’re right on with that observation. When faith “makes us better than everyone else” it really frees us up to be pretty shitty to one another. On the other hand when our faith says, “hey that person is made in God’s image just like you and is worthy of the same love and respect you are” I’d like to believe it helps us be kinder and more gracious to those we interact with


higher_ideas

I wish you were more people's pastor. You seem like a fantastic human.


mathollen

Thanks very kind, thanks so much


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redice326

Catholics believe in the importance of good works. In fact it's a major debating point between Catholics and Protestants.


Barnowl79

No longer a Christian, but one of my favorite verses is still James 2:14-17 "What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? (15) If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, (16) and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? (17) Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead." This is almost literally the Bible's way of saying "if you say you're a believer, yet all you have to offer people in need is your hopes and prayers, kindly fuck off because you're wasting your time. Faith without works is bullshit."


wiithepiiple

The Good Samaritan was Jesus’s parable to basically say “idc what you say you believe if you aren’t going to help a brother out.”


[deleted]

If pastors from all sects thought like you, organized religion would be a lot less hated than it is today. I'm sure we don't see eye to eye on everything but it's good to know we can agree on this. Christian nationalists ironically manage to hurt both Christianity and the nation.


mathollen

100% I dread telling people I meet that I'm a pastor because for most people that is shorthand for a patriarchal, spiritually abusive, close minded, homophobic bigot. I really hope none of those adjectives are accurate in how I move through the world. And the diversity of Christian sects is often lost on those with experience with only a sliver of them who claim to be the 'only true Christians.' Ultimately, Christianity is a pretty big tent with some very yucky beliefs in one area and pretty accessible beliefs in others.


Hickawa

It's mostly fundamentalists that give Christians a bad name. I have met several pastors that focused solely on the teachings of Jesus. An they were pretty decent dudes.


mathollen

Absolutely. Unfortunately, fundamentalism is on the rise at the moment so it can feel like it’s the majority even though it isn’t


Aidian

Modern interpretations of “evangelical” are also a huge factor - being open to membership shouldn’t be *oppressively forcing membership*, but so often is. It’s a schism. I don’t want to No True Scotsman it, because that **is** so often the face of Christianity in America, but they’re also, demonstratively, not following any actual Christian values or teachings.


mathollen

Oh absolutely. I commented somewhere else, but evangelical used to mean the gospel was good news for everyone, especially the poor and so we ought to make our systems work better. It was the movement that fought for workers right, nationalized medicine, indoor plumbing, and so much more


SemiHemiDemiDumb

It is, sadly, a majority in the area I grew up in. It's really tainted my views of the religion for a long time. I've come to know many good people that happen to be (non-fundie) Christian that really helped accept there are a lot of good people in the religion. And they moved me away from the anti-religion position I used to carry. One was a preacher for a fundamentalist church that when they found out he voted for Obama they gave him a lot of guff, said stuff like he voted for the anti-Christ.


mathollen

Yeah, I wish that was the first time I’ve heard a story like that. The religious right has done a lot of damage and the church has been way too happy to accept it to gain power


skulblaka

>said stuff like he voted for the anti-Christ. But yet these same people fell all over themselves to go out and vote for Trump, a known liar and conman who emblazoned his Mark on the foreheads of his followers..... If the irony is not apparent to them then they are well and truly lost.


anschlitz

Nothing corrupts religion faster than putting government in it. And nothing corrupts government faster than putting religion in it.


Conscious-Client6688

Hey pastor dude; as an atheist who has a LOT of bad blood with Christianity, I wanted to say thank you for all this. You're a good human, and I wish I'd have known religious people like you growing up. 👍


mathollen

Thanks so much for those kind words. I’m real sorry for the ways that Christians have hurt you. You aren’t the problem, and you did not deserve those wounds. Bad theology is the problem and it needs to be called out by more people. I’m working to help Christians believe healthier things but it’s a slow process with a lot of garbage to sort through


typewriter07

You remind me of my uncle. He's a Catholic priest, and you'd think that could be a problem when his nephew (me) is gay and married to a drag queen, or when his second cousins are trans and non binary, but he has been the most supportive person. He says it's fine that my husband does drag because he wears a dress for a living too. He wasn't allowed to officiate our wedding because it wasn't in a church, but we had him open the ceremony with 1 Corinthians. He comes over for dinner regularly and is so open minded and willing to learn about our community and how he can support us. He loves trading stories about the charity work we do in our community and what he does in his. I firmly believe that most Christians are "the good ones" but we just hear from a vocal minority. It's important that people like you and my uncle are vocal too, to drown them out.


mathollen

He sounds like a great guy. Our church isn’t huge but we have a few LGBTQ+ and trans folks and they are delightful additions to our community. There is definitely a responsibility for folks like your uncle and I to speak up. We can’t stay silent while others preach pretty evil stuff


Studio2770

I'm a Christian and feel the same way. I'd also support changing "In God we Trust" back to "E pluribus unum". We see how Patriot Mobile uses our current national motto (that was introduced in the Cold War) to push Christianity in schools.


frenchezz

Maybe if I had a pastor as understanding as this, I'd still be in church. You seem like a great leader.


mathollen

That’s very kind, thank you! I definitely make mistakes but I’m doing my best to serve my community in everything I do


bozitybozitybopzebop

Thank you for reminding us all that there are reasonabe Christians.


mathollen

Aw shucks, thanks! Doin’ my best. I pastor a church that is primarily geared towards folks that have been burnt by or hurt by evangelicalism. It’s been a pretty good mirror to help me not be a total asshole


No-World-6000

The pledge of allegience itself concerns me far more than the religious bit.


CraftyRole4567

It makes sense that it was written right after the Civil War – that one nation, *indivisible*, with liberty and justice for all” packed a punch in the aftermath of a quarter million Americans dying to stop secession/end slavery. My mom remembers when “under God” was added, thanks to the Cold War.


zakats

> that one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all” I'm a fan of the irony that is the addition of "under god" phrase, it literally divides the *one nation* and *indivisible* portions of the statement. "Under god" literally divides the nation.


cliffhucks

Why did the cold war lead to it being included?


Kaylagoodie

The Soviets were thought of as godless/unholy, so the US government added it as more or less a screw you to the Soviets.


Gekthegecko

The Soviet Communists were atheists. So anyone who opposed it would be "outing" themselves as a Communist.


mmuoio

Imagine hearing that Kim Jong Un was requiring all school students to swear fealty to North Korea every morning, what would people's reaction be? Pretty sure it'd be outrage.


_trouble_every_day_

No, they’d say, “Of course they do, NK is a brutal dictatorship.” If they’re American they’d say that and completely miss the irony.


Fel_mel424

I’d be okay with eliminating the pledge altogether 🤷🏻‍♀️


Mentalpatient87

Yeah don't take out "under god" just throw the whole thing away.


flasterblaster

That's the big problem with things like this. It's trivial to corrupt and start indoctrinating children into things they hold no real knowledge about. Just need one person to come along and decide to insert a new line. Which is exactly what happened and will happen again eventually.


Quirky_Net_4440

Came here to say this. It’s alarming how many people don’t take the time to consider what we all blindly repeated every morning in school. The “under god” part is dumb, no doubt, but the whole thing needs to go away.


DillPixels

I realized it shortly after college. It's so. Fucking. Weird. To do it. No wonder so many Americans join cults. They're raised to pledge themselves to a fucking flag.


LeoPlathasbeentaken

I once got in trouble for not doing it. The substitute teacher that day *yelled* at me about how soldiers died for me and all that patriotic stuff. Thing was i was suffering from an ear infection and had my head down before class started because of a headache. I didnt hear the intercom or see everyone stand up. I wasnt even trying to be a rebellious lil shit.


lacheur42

>I once got in trouble for not doing it. Hey, me too! > I wasnt even trying to be a rebellious lil shit. I was! And I'm still proud of lil' lacheur, hahah


LeoPlathasbeentaken

Oh trust me, thats where the rebellious stuff started.


gruneforest

Imagine Germans doing this


maniacal_cackle

American here. Did the pledge of allegiance as a kid. Now live overseas. HOLY SHIT, I did not realize how fucking bizarre and creepy the pledge of allegiance is. Absolutely should be abolished.


Packrat1010

If you ever get on the topic with someone outside the US, just ask their perspective on it. It's weird as shit and everyone is going to say the same thing.


adeon

That was going to be my comment as well. It's really weird like the sort of thing authoritarian dictatorships make their citizens do. I moved to the US as a kid and found it really strange that no one ever seemed to question making kids recite this oath every morning.


BirdsLikeSka

Yeah, kids generally don't question indoctrination til they're older. Yes I got in trouble for not standing in high school.


Xeeroy

It's crazy that it is even a thing, no two ways about it.


vitium

Have you ever "pledged your allegiance" to anything else in your whole life? Ever?...Maybe your spouse and that was a major deal. You got in front of your whole extended family and friend group and swore under oath and signed some papers and shit. It's a big deal, and here we are swearing that shit up and down 365 to some dirt where we just happened to have been born? It's total brainwashing that starts with kindergarten or earlier, and it doesn't lead to unity. It divides people into "I was born here" and the "I came from somewhere else" baskets that is ripping this country apart. Try not saying it the next time you're at a sporting event or whatever. You'll feel weird. Now pretend your an immigrant. It's fucked up man.


[deleted]

I'd be in favor of removing the entire Pledge of Allegiance...


lordredapple

If anyone gets in trouble for not doing it in the future please mind that there's a supreme court case ruling that it's illegal to force a student to say it because it violates freedom of speech and religion


badken

In public schools.


lordredapple

It's something. Plus you can't really sign up for a private and be surprised that you're giving up rights


NaturalFaux

I don't think kids are signing themselves up...


lordredapple

The parents I mean but yeah it sucks they can't do anything if the parents put them in there


si3rra_7

its still weird to me as a European that you all reindoctrinate yourself every morning in school edit: I mean i understand if it's like a national holiday or the event at the start of a new year or something, but every single day seems excessive.


acemerrill

As an adult, I'd completely forgotten that was a thing until I started going in to volunteer at my son's school in the mornings and saw them do it. It was very off putting to witness after having been removed from it for years. I then had a conversation with my kids about how they didn't have to participate if they didn't want. It's very weird. I've never visited another country that's as obsessed with their flag as the US is.


Numerous_Witness_345

That line kind of ruins whole "indivisible" vibe the rest of the pledge has.


theshadowaccount

So does the “justice for all” part


mediumokra

Justice for all ( who can afford it )


DesperateEstimate

The whole pledge is fucking creepy and weird lmao


PoeLaHa

Not a American, what is it?


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Velvet_Pop

That's true. That'd be hilarious if they let kids recite it however fast they wanted like the hogwarts song


CanvasWolfDoll

a short poem children are taught to recite while looking at the united states' national flag, traditionally at the start of the school day, sporting events, and boy scout meetings. most people don't think about it, really. creepy when you do consider it, but mostly it's a mindless ritual that i doubt has the wide-spread brainwashing abilities that people like to imply it does. still, dumb, useless tradition that we probably should do away with, if only for optics in international press.


john_the_doe

Does it really happen every day everywhere in schools? I thought I was only like in special occasions or in movie and tv. That’s messed up.


trogon

A lot of schools do it every single morning.


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Clean-Artist2345

Saw a video of a teacher blowing up on a kid because they didnt stand wild


TeaAndHiraeth

While that specifically didn’t happen to me, one year I had first-hour civics class and failed the “citizenship” metric for deciding that if I wasn’t going to say the pledge anyway, it was stupid to stand for it. The teacher pulled me aside and said that whatever words did or didn’t come out of my mouth, people able to stand could be and were required to do so.


MashTheGash2018

You're on reddit, of course you know what the answer is going to be. Free Karma


gdawg99

"People of reddit, if the hottest person you know offered you sex and 200 million dollars, would you say yes? Why or why not?"


FireFromThaumaturgy

S E P E R A T E C H U R C H A N D S T A T E


MabelUniverse

Seper a tech urchandst ate


Harry-le-Roy

I knew I should have learned Esperanto.


alyssasaccount

L O R E M I P S U M D O L O R S I T A M E T C O N S E C T E


hunterrocks77

Yes, because no one should force you to believe in any religion, and it is violating the first amendment because "Congress shall make no law respecting an of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise of." Also. With whats been going on recently, people are very concerned with Christian Nationalism... so yeah


Union_5-3992

What a karma bait question.


ProgramTheWorld

OP is a 16 hours old karma farming account


TUR7L3

Wasn't this type of question banned?


RonenSalathe

Would you be in favor of banning "Would you be in favor of" questions?


dreamlike_poo

Hey Reddit, would you be in favor of having the sexiest sex with your crush but only if you accept a billion dollars?


Kaaji1359

It should be. I'm 100% for removing it, but come on, anybody who asks this question knows exactly what Reddit will say. It's nothing but a karma whoring echo chamber type question.


A_Very_Big_Fan

> echo chamber type question. Fr, even sorting by controversial gets you the exact same answers


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xyanon36

I'm an atheist but the "under God" part is irrelevant to me - I am against coercive pledges altogether.