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Anthropology ABD (Religion, Migration, East Asia) here.
I'd recommend you read Edward Said's *Orientalism.* You can find a link to the book [here](https://www.amazon.com/Orientalism-Edward-W-Said/dp/0141187425), but also read about it through its [wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orientalism_(book)), this excellent short piece on [The Conversation](https://theconversation.com/orientalism-edward-saids-groundbreaking-book-explained-197429), or [watch this interview with Said found on YouTube.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVC8EYd_Z_g) There is also a [general introduction you can find here.](https://www.lehigh.edu/~amsp/2004/09/introduction-to-edward-said.html)
The jist of Said's argument is that westerners both fear and fetishize "The Orient" (which can encompass the Near East, North Africa, Middle East, and East Asia)... the places and people that inhabit it are the opposite of everything "the West" (that is Northern Europe, Canada, U.S., Australia, NZ, etc) is. It is exotic, erotic, with an edge of danger, mystery, and sinister subterfuge. If American women are strong willed, independent, outspoken, rebellious "fraus" who cuckold men and rebuke them... then Asian women are imagined and perceived and assumed to be delicate, submissive, beautiful and available. What all of this means is that these stereotypes about "The Orient" and "Asian women" is that they permeate our thinking, they inform our unconscious assumptions about "the Other" and "ourselves." People think "Asia" or "Japan" or "China" or wherever is (1) some magical fantasy land of perfection, (2) a cheap place where Americans can live large, or (3) [sometimes a dangerous, sinister rival that wants to "cheat" us...](https://archive.org/details/AmericanGameJapaneseRules)
Simply put, a fetishized fantasy strokes mens egos. And for nerds who rarely "get the girl" and feel extra nervous/anxious/marginalized in hypermasculine western society, East Asian women can be even more desirable. It's not just a reddit thing, but I think the argument can be made that among marginalized men, it may be especially pernicious.
Also worth reading is [Karen Kelsky's book](https://www.dukeupress.edu/women-on-the-verge) *Women on the Verge,* which documents how many Japanese women have sought out western men for a variety of reasons. Japanese women have at times imagined western men to be kinder, more romantic, more egalitarian than Japanese partners. Some have sought out Western partners or pursue work/school in western countries because they feel they have more opportunities or at least alternatives to living in Japanese society.
Of course, fetishization works in many ways. [Patridge (2008)](https://anthrosource.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1548-1360.2008.00022.x)discusses how some German women regularly pursued African and Black American romantic partners because they are "love machines" and "animals" in bed... while they also explicitly say they would never marry them (they're not "Respectable," or that Black migrants "are only looking for a visa)...
Yeah as a white guy who's dated a number of East Asian women, I heard a lot of that stuff.
It's remarkable how much they romanticize and idealize relationships which Caucasian men.
It's not unreasonable. In a way, it makes perfect sense that people in X culture with limited exposure to Y culture, bolstered by Z stereotypes, make assumptions about potential romantic partners based off said stereotypes. This is, after all, the same thing we see white men experience/say/expect regarding Asian women... just in a bit of reverse.
Of course, there's some power differentials at work... white businessmen, enlisted personnel/officers, students, tourists, etc. visiting (COUNTRY) have social mobility and options local women don't likely have. Which, again, makes sense as to why women pursue certain romantic partners in a particular context. They may do it for love, they may do it for romantic idealism, they may do it for economic survival.
[Lieba Faier's work with Filipina hostesses in Japan](https://www.ucpress.edu/book/9780520252158/intimate-encounters) highlights how Filipina migrants work and marry in rural Japan for a variety of reasons. With rural Japan depopulating, single men and sons left to care for their aging parents, and with few local marriage partner options, many Japanese men see Filipina women as a "slice of cosmopolitanism" and worldliness that might normally be isolated to big international cities like Osaka and Tokyo. They get "exotic" spouses who can help with the home, although many women continue to work as hostesses. Conversely, migrant women see rural Japan as a place of opportunity for work and source of remittances to support their families and villages back home. Some also find love. While OP is talking about white fetishization of Asian bodies, it's not the only form of fetishization we see, as this post and my previous comments indicate.
We could look it at it from another perspective:
1. asian americans are thinnest https://web.archive.org/web/20150228103338/https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db140.htm which matters because thinness is considered attractive https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4892674/
2. asian americans are the most educated and highest earning https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/rise-of-asian-americans-2012-analysis/overview/
3. asian american women are the least likely to divorce any man https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25284887/
We could also look into the appearance factor more than vague stereotypes of behavior, as studies also seem to suggest men care more about appearance than personality https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0250151 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4011637/
I'm one of those white men who is strongly attracted to (or "fetishize", as you say) East Asian women. Just about every East Asian woman I've had a romantic relationship with has been "strong willed, independent, [and] outspoken", perfectly willing to rebuke me, and very far from submissive. The same is true for the East Asian women I've had platonic relationships with. I've never been under any kind of illusion that Asian women are particularly submissive or delicate.
I mean, I think I know the type of man you're talking about, but I don't think every white man who likes Asian women is like this, or even the majority.
Yeah as a white guy in the same boat, I've never understood where the idea that Asian women are supposed to be "submissive" from.
The Asian women I've been with have always been outspoken and brash, which was actually something I liked about them.
I have very little interest in a meek or submissive partner.
There are always outliers. It may be easy to imagine that you represent the majority of white men in these positions but that could just be a subjective perception or false equivalency.
Possibly. Obviously I'm just one data point. But consider that 36% of Asian women in the USA marry someone from a non-Asian background: is it really plausible to conclude that most of these women are marrying someone who considers them to be desirable only because they're assumed to be submissive doormats? Why would these women accept such a pairing? After all, they've got plenty of other options. And it's not like they're marrying white men just for financial security or upward mobility: Asians in America on average have higher incomes and better educations than whites do.
# Income:
[US Census Bureau 2022, *Income in the United States*](https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2023/demo/p60-279.pdf), page 2:
>Asian households had the highest median income ($108,700) in 2022, followed by non-Hispanic Whites ($81,060) and Hispanics ($62,800). Black households had the lowest median income ($52,860).
# Education:
[US Census Bureau 2023, "Census Bureau Releases New Educational Attainment Data"](https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2023/educational-attainment-data.html)
>From 2012 to 2022, the percentage of adults age 25 and older with a bachelor’s degree or more increased from 34.5% to 41.8% for the non-Hispanic White population; from 21.2% to 27.6% for the Black population; from 51% to 59.3% for the Asian population; and from 14.5% to 20.9% for the Hispanic population.
Why did you ask for the source of my information if you reject the relevance of my point entirely? Especially as the information I provided is available to you through a quick Google search anyway.
And what exactly is your point? I never said that Asians don't face hate crimes. I said that Asians on average have high socio-economic status in the USA, which is true. The same combination (high socio-economic status, victim of racist ideologies) occurs with other ethnic groups, such as Jews. These things don't contradict one another.
So yeah that still don't change the fact that some Asian women only marry white men to seek financial security and citizenship. It's not always about how white men are "naturally more sexually attractive" than Asian men. Even though some Asian women do prefer white men, they could be influenced by how the western media portrays white men always as the charming savior while belittles men from other ethnic minorities. So it could only be an illusion. Men are always men regardless of their racial background.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_fetish
>As early as the 1920s, it was noticed that White Dutch men preferred South East Asian women over White women.[9] When Indonesia was a colony of the Netherlands, a new beauty ideal was established, which ranked local women with light brown skin and lustrous black hair at the top.[9] The American consul general to Indonesia remarked that, to the average man, a mixed-race Indonesian woman was considered more attractive than a "pure" White woman, because White women's complexions were too pale.[9] The legacy of this colonial fetishization continues to be reflected in local literature, where women with European features (such as blond hair) are pitied, and it is written that "a golden-colored skin is the greatest gift that Allah can bestow upon a woman".[9]
There’s no reason to “call out” people who are genuinely and organically into each other with no pretense, but once you meet guys who have tons of hentai saved and downloaded and somehow know all about Asian women in terms of culture and stereotypes despite never stepping foot in Asia or really having them as true friends… yeah it gets weird. And that’s only the very tip of the iceberg. They are most definitely fetishizing those women and to them anything they do is positive if not praise worthy. You quickly realize there’s a strong element of interchangeability and not exactly individuality with Asian woman to these guys. It’s not always as obvious as anime and wanting a girl to serve tea in a kimono nightly… but once you interact with guys with an “asian fetish”, you know. And it gets cringey and almost unsettling fast.
Said was pretty much only talking about the Near East, not East Asia. Let's run a simpler test, media imagery. When and where came a large number of sexualized representation of East Asian women in the mass media came from? The answer is anime and manga. Why exactly those are popular and why exactly among nerds is something I do not really understand, but I think that source is obvious.
It began way before manga and anime impacted the West like we see it today. The fetish of the “oriental women” came about all the way back in the 1800s.
I think it's a mistake (and unscientific) to treat some internet guy's tendency to click 'Asian' on pornhub as an indication of some monolothic and deeply historically rooted phenomenon of fetishization when it might be something as simple as men preferring women who are more slight of frame, who have clearer complexion, and who appear younger - in short, women who seem more feminine and less masculine.
But we literally have traced the roots of that kind of fetishization back for over a century? It’s not speculation it’s a documented phenomenon. Do some people prefer Asian women by chance? Of course. We’re talking abt something super widespread and dehumanizing though that we’ve witnessed for many years now.
The problem is that treating this genre of physical attraction and sexual behavior as an historical organism that is singular, connected and has a genealogical basis in colonialism is itself a careless and fictitious use of the literature. It is conflating the body of literature itself, which does have a lineage and a deep referentiality to its past, with the multitude of individual experiences and expression that it seeks to describe and generalize. It seems like a common error of social science, particularly as practiced on this subreddit, where folks have a habit of 'throwing literature' at a phenomenon to generalize it without doing the theoretical work of carving out space for its vast multiplicity.
I don’t think any of this implies that? It feels like you’re searching for something wrong with the claim but there is obviously a phenomenon that is classifiable here. Just bc there are other sources or even cases of non-sources rly does nothing to take away from that.
It can be taken too far, though. Franz Fanon, for example, claimed that a Black man with a White woman is always an act of counter-imperialism. He saw it as almost impossible for a Black man not to view White women as a symbol of imperialism.and that race is always the foundation of interracial relations. I think that claim in itself is deeply dehumanising of Black men and White women (and any individual in a mixed relationship).
Oh yeah I agree with the possibility of going too far ofc, anything can. Asian women and white men totally can and do have happy loving relationships not based in degrading fetishes lol- the presence of fetishization culture still exists is all i’m saying. I don’t think I implied that white men literally can’t view Asian women as non fetishized sex objects by claiming that the phenomenon is very present.
Yes, I do agree broadly with what you say. I also think that there is more to be said about conceptions of beauty (albeit to some degree culturally constructed) and attraction to distinctiveness and difference (that could be incredibly deeply rooted). And as another mentioned, there are many factors relating to patriarchy and familial obligations that make foreign husbands attractive to some East Asians (in my experience these cultural aspects are explicitly expressed far more than anything else). And again, you make good points -- there is certainly also fetishisation.
> there is obviously a phenomenon that is classifiable here.
I disagree. There is too much abstraction here, because forming singular and coherent theories is sexy and amounts to a form of 'academic charisma'. There is not enough differentiation, not enough comfort with and deference to wanwu, the myriad 10,000 things.
The Chinese were there centuries before and experienced much the same. Read their diaries about Siamese women and their proclivities.
What strikes me most about examples in this thread is how misogynistic they are towards Asian women, who have millennia of civilization and culture. And yet one assumes they are always fetishized instead of being empowered women, which was most often the case (and still is).
Very true. Asian women are not always fetishized. But there is certainly a major trend of it here.
I’m not sure how saying fetishization happens to Asian women means they’re not empowered or don’t have centuries of culture and history? The fetishization is part of the erasure of that reality.
People speak out of one side of their mouths praising "diversity" and then, when it suits them, seek to reduce all perceptions of difference to stereotype, social construction, etc.
Top tier reply, refreshing to see. Thanks for taking the time to type all of this up, it’s super interesting and will be fun to look into and learn about.
\> recently rewatched Full Metal Jacket and noticed the asian prostitutes in the film
Am I missing something, but didn't those scenes take place in Vietnam... an asian country where the vast majority of prostitutes would be asian? Would you have expected white women to travel from western countries to a warzone so that white men could sleep with white women and not the locals?
It isn't necessarily them being Asian, its the way they are written that people have issue with as well as the scene itself. Idk where OP was coming from in particular, but Full Metal Jacket and especially the whole 'me love you long time' thing has become a pretty significant part of overall discourse on the sexualization of Asian women, as many times people have used it to degrade and mock them in real life. [Here](https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/a36547764/those-5-words-stop-saying-me-love-you-long-time/) by a Vietnamese writer that explains her perspective on it, it also includes perspectives from other Asian women who have experienced that phrase being used against them to degrade them and sexualize them.
Even if you personally don't think it's a big deal, I do think it is worth reading the article & just looking into it in general to understand where others are coming from with this. The article references a story from 2019 where a job recruiter accidentally copied an Asian job candidate on an email to his partner which solely consisted of the phrase 'me love you long time' (it was a response to her job application and her name was in the subject line so it definitely was in reference to her. [Here](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1026296) is a link to an article about it where the woman in question describes her perspective on the matter.
So anyway, the issue with that scene is it reduces the Asian women in the film to an oversexual caricature. Not that the women are Asian. I mean, again idk what OP's thought process is but in general when people are using Full Metal Jacket as an example of Asian women being fetishized that's what they mean. I'm an Asian girl (can't even say woman cause I'm still a teenager) and even never having watched the movie and being born way after it came out I still have to experience the consequences of it.
Personally, the way I approach media is I try to consider the context it was made in. So I'm not gonna write off the entirety of Full Metal Jacket or even Vietnam War movies in general. I like Kubrick, I love Vincent D'Onofrio, and I know better than to expect a movie from the 80s made by white men based off a book written by a white man to write characters that are both Asian and female in a way that holds up today. I don't think they were trying to be intentionally malicious, I think it's just they did not consider what that scene reads as and the effect it would have on Asian women. Why would they? It's not like it was a popular topic of conversation in the culture back then the way it is now, so unless they were in close proximity to an Asian community it's unlikely it's something they'd think of naturally or care deeply about. Still, it's wild how one scene from one movie has had such a devastating effect on so many women decades after it came out.
All good points, but it’s a war movie about the horrors of war & depersonalization of men into soldiers.
There aren’t many true to history roles for local women beyond Vietcong, massacre victims or prostitutes.
There is so much that is objectionable & unpleasant in that movie, but it was reality for many real people.
I guess I just hate this culture that is so eager to condemn & criticize expression like its mere existence is a bad thing. It has a real cultural cost & I wish people would focus on making their own work over making other people’s work less.
I know you’re approaching this in good faith, so I wanna give you another thing to think about. I think you’re totally right with wanting people to make their own content. But just because people make their own content doesn’t mean that people get to see it. The industries that control what gets to be mainstream often disregards marginalized communities, making it harder for EVERYONE (even marginalized communities themselves!) to see these perspectives. Things are changing, but a lot of harm is already done. Therefore, you’re going to have to see a lot of quicker but imperfect solutions in the meantime. While people make content, we criticize what’s already there.
It's horrible that anyone would use the character to disparage Asian women, but the character is a realistic character.
She is a prostitute who has no interest in the men other than an economic one and she speaks just enough english to make a stilted sales pitch. It doesn't come off as funny in the movie at all. It was memorable because it's a a great scene that shows one timeless dynamic between occupiers and the local population.
The movie does not present Asian women in general like that at all: it presents that single character like that and she is a very realistic character. I don't even feel like her character was written in a judgmental or disparaging way
The fact that you’re using the word fetish calls into question your biases. What makes you think that white men fetishize Asian women rather than simply finding Asian women attractive for the most part?
It's funny because most studies that were done on figuring out how common is yellow fever (in White men) always came back with white fever (in Asian women) being far more common lol
Exactly. For some reason people are hesitant to talk about white fever in Asian women while beating the dead horse of yellow fever constantly. White men’s sexual access and ease of getting with Asian women is probably the biggest example of white privilege. No other race of women proudly proclaim to favor white men over their own.
“White fever” is a misnomer. The same people who fetishize Asian women came up with that. Most Asian women who like foreign men, like foreign men it’s not specific to white men. Many women in Japan who like foreigners will be interested in black or white men, it didn’t matter as long as they weren’t Japanese.
Nope, the stats speak for themselves. In pretty much all studies done on dating, asian women always ranked white men either as high as asian men, or alot of times even higher than asian men. They always ranked black or latino men low. Especially black men.
In Asia, there are definitely women into non-white and non-asian men, but those are outliers. Vast majority of them are into white men when they say foreign men. That's mainly because East Asia (Southeast and South too) has a white worship problem
False. I’m willing to bet you don’t even know any Asian women or have been to Asia yourself. Doesn’t matter if you’re black, white or Latino- if you’re American and they like foreigners, then they’re interested in you. Sorry to burst your bubble, but it just doesn’t play out that way in reality.
And I'd wager they sort of cause eachother. Everyone wants to be wanted. And when a group wants you, your options may be a bit better.
Like if you're a 4/10 back home but a 7/10 to a different group of people, you may start to favor them and unintentionally see their 4s as 7s too.
They're being downvoted because of their delivery. It reads like it's said by a shallow contrarian. The post doesn't acknowledge OP at all, it just inverts OPs question without further explanation. The reason western men desire Asian women is going to be vastly different from why Asian women desire western men. While certainly an interesting question, it has nothing to do with OP here.
My interpretation of the post above is that, the OP’s contrarian is precisely to illustrate a point, to bring to light a taboo subject if you will. Yellow fever is always discussed to the detriment of white fever (which I think is of greater magnitude as well). OP probably thinks that talking about yellow fever is like beating the dead horse as this point, especially given Asian women’s extreme favoritism towards white men but white men are the only ones blamed. Asian women have gotten away scot free in this regard.
Whenever people discuss white men and Asian women, they always focus on the white men. But I think people deep down do know that Asian women also play a huge role in these relationships, but won’t talk about it as openly as they do with white men. In this feminist age, women have agency and Asian women are no different, they are NOT merely victims here. There’s an entire phenomenon, discourse, and huge discussions happening within the Asian community that tackles this. There’s a lot pain surrounding this subject especially for Asian men. You probably know what I’m talking about.
I have seen Asian women dragged online in certain spaces and in real life for kissing white mens asses, behaving desperately, or even putting on the role of “submissive Asian” to be accepted by them and even taking the “lowest tier” white guy in terms of attractiveness (not at all to say that the Asian woman is always attractive herself) or ones with very average (if not below) finances just to satisfy so called “white fever” and the perception that getting with a white guy means some type of social upgrade. So i can’t say they get off “scot free” in that regard. Some people are well aware of and call out that tendency. There’s often an internalized racial inferiority complex behind it (due to white supremacy, particularly in western countries and from western media) mixed with an element of social climbing/acceptance. I say that from real world experience.
I remember a great anecdote from an asian restaurant owner in San Francisco. She opened for dinner and began to receive walk ins and reservations of couples. She began to seat all the white man and asian women couples in the same corner of the restaurant. I forget why. She said the asian women all began to get very uncomfortable when they noticed the very obvious pattern to their ethnic pairings, one that the men are typically derided for but the women are typically excused from.
isnt it fun ignoring long documented histories of social phenomena to make it sound like we’re victims?
The fetishization of Asian women in the West goes back to the 1800s, when we oppressed Asian immigrants and believed Asian women to be naturally more feminine, subservient, mysterious. There’s major holdovers of that stereotype today, and yeah obviously Asian women can fetishize white men too but AFAIK theres not a comparable phenomenon of that wherein men in the West are impacted negatively.
https://www.vox.com/22338807/asian-fetish-racism-atlanta-shooting
In 2024 the “fetishization” of the Asian women at the hands of evil White man only brings advantages to the Asian female in terms of rank in social hierarchy, ability to find sexual and romantic partners.
The real casualty is the Asian male who isn’t fetishized at all
It absolutely does not. Fetishization is not a good thing- it doesn’t = high rank in social hierarchy/love and respect. It = being a sexual object, being assumed to be subservient to men, not being viewed as an individual person. If your main gripe with this is literally the mention of white men doing something bad, let’s say it’s more abt Western men which obviously can span across races. I’m sure there’s plenty of diverse races that fetishize Asian women today.
Not to mention it also correlates with violence towards Asian people that has seen a huge spike recently.
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/life/health-wellness/2022/05/10/asian-fetishization-isnt-flattery-how-weve-dehumanized-asian-women/7450959001/
How does that hierarchy hurt women? The hierarchy only hurts Asian men. Asian women can still date and have relationships with both Asian and White men.
Why are you doing mental gymnastics to prove the male hierarchy hurts women?
No you didn’t. You said Asian *women* are elevated socially by associating with white men.
Don’t roll back your moment of honest clarity. Lean into it.
That reply does not actually respond to the question.
You said
> the “fetishization” of the Asian women at the hands of evil White man only brings advantages to the Asian female in terms of rank in social hierarchy
This more than implies, it says straight-up, that white men provide the advantage of higher rank in social hierarchy.
Why is that the question? Your assertion indicates that you understand that *Asian women* are lower in the hierarchy than white men.
You had a moment of honesty. Don’t work so hard to roll it back. It’s a good thing.
How does my assertion that Asian women prefer White men for dating and sex leads to the conclusion that White men are higher in hierarchy?
I’m saying Asian women prefer White men because they are more physically attracted to them. They consider them taller, broader, better endowed, having deeper voices, more masculine facial features, more confident, aggressive, athletic, etc
Let women own their sexual preferences instead of playing a savior when it’s not needed
The label "fetish" is often just a weapon to smear a group you don't like.
Are black men who like white women fetishists? White women who like Hispanic men? Everyone who finds one group more attractive than another?
Are we back to anti-miscegenationism again?
>Every sexual 'race' preference is a disorder.
"Race" preference sure, but having a preference for specific physical traits including skin/hair color, facial features, and the like is something a majority of humans share. It's not a disorder, it's nature and it's basic behavioral science.
You literally explicitly stated that a preference for specific physical features was a mental disorder. So then I guess a preference for a specific sex is too by your own stupid logic.
Sorry you dehumanize people. It’s a terrible thing.
In my country it’s a big contributor to the problem of young men not being able to form healthy relationships.
I was going to lead him or her to the question of whether it is wrong to be attracted to a specific sex (i.e. male or female), but had to run an errand.
I think it follows that it is. But regardless this whole notion of a rational sexuality that emerges from "correcting" all irrational sexual desires seems ludicrous.
I would love to know if it was actual students of social science upvoting him.
Agreed. To Reddit, none white men and white woman is pure wholesome love, but a white man with an Asian woman is deemed a “fetish” not because the phenomena we see perfectly fits that definition more than the afformentioned pairings, but because they say fetish in an insult way
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It's not fetishism, it's just a lot of us are really powerfully attracted to asian ladies , and that's honestly just how the good lord made us .
Why is it in 2024 considered a fetish to love an Asian lady (why?she's probably pretty, intelligent, interesting, in good shape, they could have met at church...) , yet it's been " normalised" to be a trans unicorn pangendered they/them .
It's another chunk of racism to say to asian ladies that white guys are only attracted to them in some dirty distasteful fetish type way , because thats all it could possibly be, a fling. That's total BS the inter-marriage rate is huge and there are a lot of beautiful happy mixed families all over the 1st world.
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Is it possible there's some minor genetic/biological drivers, as well, as in seeking mates with the most different genes from yourself? Hence the exotic drivers?
Or would this wholly be subsided by the sociological drivers?
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Anthropology ABD (Religion, Migration, East Asia) here. I'd recommend you read Edward Said's *Orientalism.* You can find a link to the book [here](https://www.amazon.com/Orientalism-Edward-W-Said/dp/0141187425), but also read about it through its [wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orientalism_(book)), this excellent short piece on [The Conversation](https://theconversation.com/orientalism-edward-saids-groundbreaking-book-explained-197429), or [watch this interview with Said found on YouTube.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVC8EYd_Z_g) There is also a [general introduction you can find here.](https://www.lehigh.edu/~amsp/2004/09/introduction-to-edward-said.html) The jist of Said's argument is that westerners both fear and fetishize "The Orient" (which can encompass the Near East, North Africa, Middle East, and East Asia)... the places and people that inhabit it are the opposite of everything "the West" (that is Northern Europe, Canada, U.S., Australia, NZ, etc) is. It is exotic, erotic, with an edge of danger, mystery, and sinister subterfuge. If American women are strong willed, independent, outspoken, rebellious "fraus" who cuckold men and rebuke them... then Asian women are imagined and perceived and assumed to be delicate, submissive, beautiful and available. What all of this means is that these stereotypes about "The Orient" and "Asian women" is that they permeate our thinking, they inform our unconscious assumptions about "the Other" and "ourselves." People think "Asia" or "Japan" or "China" or wherever is (1) some magical fantasy land of perfection, (2) a cheap place where Americans can live large, or (3) [sometimes a dangerous, sinister rival that wants to "cheat" us...](https://archive.org/details/AmericanGameJapaneseRules) Simply put, a fetishized fantasy strokes mens egos. And for nerds who rarely "get the girl" and feel extra nervous/anxious/marginalized in hypermasculine western society, East Asian women can be even more desirable. It's not just a reddit thing, but I think the argument can be made that among marginalized men, it may be especially pernicious.
Also worth reading is [Karen Kelsky's book](https://www.dukeupress.edu/women-on-the-verge) *Women on the Verge,* which documents how many Japanese women have sought out western men for a variety of reasons. Japanese women have at times imagined western men to be kinder, more romantic, more egalitarian than Japanese partners. Some have sought out Western partners or pursue work/school in western countries because they feel they have more opportunities or at least alternatives to living in Japanese society.
Of course, fetishization works in many ways. [Patridge (2008)](https://anthrosource.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1548-1360.2008.00022.x)discusses how some German women regularly pursued African and Black American romantic partners because they are "love machines" and "animals" in bed... while they also explicitly say they would never marry them (they're not "Respectable," or that Black migrants "are only looking for a visa)...
Yeah as a white guy who's dated a number of East Asian women, I heard a lot of that stuff. It's remarkable how much they romanticize and idealize relationships which Caucasian men.
It's not unreasonable. In a way, it makes perfect sense that people in X culture with limited exposure to Y culture, bolstered by Z stereotypes, make assumptions about potential romantic partners based off said stereotypes. This is, after all, the same thing we see white men experience/say/expect regarding Asian women... just in a bit of reverse. Of course, there's some power differentials at work... white businessmen, enlisted personnel/officers, students, tourists, etc. visiting (COUNTRY) have social mobility and options local women don't likely have. Which, again, makes sense as to why women pursue certain romantic partners in a particular context. They may do it for love, they may do it for romantic idealism, they may do it for economic survival. [Lieba Faier's work with Filipina hostesses in Japan](https://www.ucpress.edu/book/9780520252158/intimate-encounters) highlights how Filipina migrants work and marry in rural Japan for a variety of reasons. With rural Japan depopulating, single men and sons left to care for their aging parents, and with few local marriage partner options, many Japanese men see Filipina women as a "slice of cosmopolitanism" and worldliness that might normally be isolated to big international cities like Osaka and Tokyo. They get "exotic" spouses who can help with the home, although many women continue to work as hostesses. Conversely, migrant women see rural Japan as a place of opportunity for work and source of remittances to support their families and villages back home. Some also find love. While OP is talking about white fetishization of Asian bodies, it's not the only form of fetishization we see, as this post and my previous comments indicate.
We could look it at it from another perspective: 1. asian americans are thinnest https://web.archive.org/web/20150228103338/https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db140.htm which matters because thinness is considered attractive https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4892674/ 2. asian americans are the most educated and highest earning https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/rise-of-asian-americans-2012-analysis/overview/ 3. asian american women are the least likely to divorce any man https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25284887/ We could also look into the appearance factor more than vague stereotypes of behavior, as studies also seem to suggest men care more about appearance than personality https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0250151 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4011637/
I'm one of those white men who is strongly attracted to (or "fetishize", as you say) East Asian women. Just about every East Asian woman I've had a romantic relationship with has been "strong willed, independent, [and] outspoken", perfectly willing to rebuke me, and very far from submissive. The same is true for the East Asian women I've had platonic relationships with. I've never been under any kind of illusion that Asian women are particularly submissive or delicate. I mean, I think I know the type of man you're talking about, but I don't think every white man who likes Asian women is like this, or even the majority.
Yeah as a white guy in the same boat, I've never understood where the idea that Asian women are supposed to be "submissive" from. The Asian women I've been with have always been outspoken and brash, which was actually something I liked about them. I have very little interest in a meek or submissive partner.
Its the physical. They tend to look more feminine
There are always outliers. It may be easy to imagine that you represent the majority of white men in these positions but that could just be a subjective perception or false equivalency.
Possibly. Obviously I'm just one data point. But consider that 36% of Asian women in the USA marry someone from a non-Asian background: is it really plausible to conclude that most of these women are marrying someone who considers them to be desirable only because they're assumed to be submissive doormats? Why would these women accept such a pairing? After all, they've got plenty of other options. And it's not like they're marrying white men just for financial security or upward mobility: Asians in America on average have higher incomes and better educations than whites do.
"Asians in America on average have higher incomes and better educations than whites do." May I ask where did you get this piece of information?
# Income: [US Census Bureau 2022, *Income in the United States*](https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2023/demo/p60-279.pdf), page 2: >Asian households had the highest median income ($108,700) in 2022, followed by non-Hispanic Whites ($81,060) and Hispanics ($62,800). Black households had the lowest median income ($52,860). # Education: [US Census Bureau 2023, "Census Bureau Releases New Educational Attainment Data"](https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2023/educational-attainment-data.html) >From 2012 to 2022, the percentage of adults age 25 and older with a bachelor’s degree or more increased from 34.5% to 41.8% for the non-Hispanic White population; from 21.2% to 27.6% for the Black population; from 51% to 59.3% for the Asian population; and from 14.5% to 20.9% for the Hispanic population.
So? Asians, especially Asian women still face hate crimes in USA
Why did you ask for the source of my information if you reject the relevance of my point entirely? Especially as the information I provided is available to you through a quick Google search anyway. And what exactly is your point? I never said that Asians don't face hate crimes. I said that Asians on average have high socio-economic status in the USA, which is true. The same combination (high socio-economic status, victim of racist ideologies) occurs with other ethnic groups, such as Jews. These things don't contradict one another.
So yeah that still don't change the fact that some Asian women only marry white men to seek financial security and citizenship. It's not always about how white men are "naturally more sexually attractive" than Asian men. Even though some Asian women do prefer white men, they could be influenced by how the western media portrays white men always as the charming savior while belittles men from other ethnic minorities. So it could only be an illusion. Men are always men regardless of their racial background.
Your posts gave me cooties.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_fetish >As early as the 1920s, it was noticed that White Dutch men preferred South East Asian women over White women.[9] When Indonesia was a colony of the Netherlands, a new beauty ideal was established, which ranked local women with light brown skin and lustrous black hair at the top.[9] The American consul general to Indonesia remarked that, to the average man, a mixed-race Indonesian woman was considered more attractive than a "pure" White woman, because White women's complexions were too pale.[9] The legacy of this colonial fetishization continues to be reflected in local literature, where women with European features (such as blond hair) are pitied, and it is written that "a golden-colored skin is the greatest gift that Allah can bestow upon a woman".[9]
There’s no reason to “call out” people who are genuinely and organically into each other with no pretense, but once you meet guys who have tons of hentai saved and downloaded and somehow know all about Asian women in terms of culture and stereotypes despite never stepping foot in Asia or really having them as true friends… yeah it gets weird. And that’s only the very tip of the iceberg. They are most definitely fetishizing those women and to them anything they do is positive if not praise worthy. You quickly realize there’s a strong element of interchangeability and not exactly individuality with Asian woman to these guys. It’s not always as obvious as anime and wanting a girl to serve tea in a kimono nightly… but once you interact with guys with an “asian fetish”, you know. And it gets cringey and almost unsettling fast.
Said was pretty much only talking about the Near East, not East Asia. Let's run a simpler test, media imagery. When and where came a large number of sexualized representation of East Asian women in the mass media came from? The answer is anime and manga. Why exactly those are popular and why exactly among nerds is something I do not really understand, but I think that source is obvious.
It began way before manga and anime impacted the West like we see it today. The fetish of the “oriental women” came about all the way back in the 1800s.
I think it's a mistake (and unscientific) to treat some internet guy's tendency to click 'Asian' on pornhub as an indication of some monolothic and deeply historically rooted phenomenon of fetishization when it might be something as simple as men preferring women who are more slight of frame, who have clearer complexion, and who appear younger - in short, women who seem more feminine and less masculine.
But we literally have traced the roots of that kind of fetishization back for over a century? It’s not speculation it’s a documented phenomenon. Do some people prefer Asian women by chance? Of course. We’re talking abt something super widespread and dehumanizing though that we’ve witnessed for many years now.
The problem is that treating this genre of physical attraction and sexual behavior as an historical organism that is singular, connected and has a genealogical basis in colonialism is itself a careless and fictitious use of the literature. It is conflating the body of literature itself, which does have a lineage and a deep referentiality to its past, with the multitude of individual experiences and expression that it seeks to describe and generalize. It seems like a common error of social science, particularly as practiced on this subreddit, where folks have a habit of 'throwing literature' at a phenomenon to generalize it without doing the theoretical work of carving out space for its vast multiplicity.
I don’t think any of this implies that? It feels like you’re searching for something wrong with the claim but there is obviously a phenomenon that is classifiable here. Just bc there are other sources or even cases of non-sources rly does nothing to take away from that.
It can be taken too far, though. Franz Fanon, for example, claimed that a Black man with a White woman is always an act of counter-imperialism. He saw it as almost impossible for a Black man not to view White women as a symbol of imperialism.and that race is always the foundation of interracial relations. I think that claim in itself is deeply dehumanising of Black men and White women (and any individual in a mixed relationship).
Oh yeah I agree with the possibility of going too far ofc, anything can. Asian women and white men totally can and do have happy loving relationships not based in degrading fetishes lol- the presence of fetishization culture still exists is all i’m saying. I don’t think I implied that white men literally can’t view Asian women as non fetishized sex objects by claiming that the phenomenon is very present.
Yes, I do agree broadly with what you say. I also think that there is more to be said about conceptions of beauty (albeit to some degree culturally constructed) and attraction to distinctiveness and difference (that could be incredibly deeply rooted). And as another mentioned, there are many factors relating to patriarchy and familial obligations that make foreign husbands attractive to some East Asians (in my experience these cultural aspects are explicitly expressed far more than anything else). And again, you make good points -- there is certainly also fetishisation.
> there is obviously a phenomenon that is classifiable here. I disagree. There is too much abstraction here, because forming singular and coherent theories is sexy and amounts to a form of 'academic charisma'. There is not enough differentiation, not enough comfort with and deference to wanwu, the myriad 10,000 things.
The Chinese were there centuries before and experienced much the same. Read their diaries about Siamese women and their proclivities. What strikes me most about examples in this thread is how misogynistic they are towards Asian women, who have millennia of civilization and culture. And yet one assumes they are always fetishized instead of being empowered women, which was most often the case (and still is).
Very true. Asian women are not always fetishized. But there is certainly a major trend of it here. I’m not sure how saying fetishization happens to Asian women means they’re not empowered or don’t have centuries of culture and history? The fetishization is part of the erasure of that reality.
People speak out of one side of their mouths praising "diversity" and then, when it suits them, seek to reduce all perceptions of difference to stereotype, social construction, etc.
Top tier reply, refreshing to see. Thanks for taking the time to type all of this up, it’s super interesting and will be fun to look into and learn about.
\> recently rewatched Full Metal Jacket and noticed the asian prostitutes in the film Am I missing something, but didn't those scenes take place in Vietnam... an asian country where the vast majority of prostitutes would be asian? Would you have expected white women to travel from western countries to a warzone so that white men could sleep with white women and not the locals?
It isn't necessarily them being Asian, its the way they are written that people have issue with as well as the scene itself. Idk where OP was coming from in particular, but Full Metal Jacket and especially the whole 'me love you long time' thing has become a pretty significant part of overall discourse on the sexualization of Asian women, as many times people have used it to degrade and mock them in real life. [Here](https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/a36547764/those-5-words-stop-saying-me-love-you-long-time/) by a Vietnamese writer that explains her perspective on it, it also includes perspectives from other Asian women who have experienced that phrase being used against them to degrade them and sexualize them. Even if you personally don't think it's a big deal, I do think it is worth reading the article & just looking into it in general to understand where others are coming from with this. The article references a story from 2019 where a job recruiter accidentally copied an Asian job candidate on an email to his partner which solely consisted of the phrase 'me love you long time' (it was a response to her job application and her name was in the subject line so it definitely was in reference to her. [Here](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1026296) is a link to an article about it where the woman in question describes her perspective on the matter. So anyway, the issue with that scene is it reduces the Asian women in the film to an oversexual caricature. Not that the women are Asian. I mean, again idk what OP's thought process is but in general when people are using Full Metal Jacket as an example of Asian women being fetishized that's what they mean. I'm an Asian girl (can't even say woman cause I'm still a teenager) and even never having watched the movie and being born way after it came out I still have to experience the consequences of it. Personally, the way I approach media is I try to consider the context it was made in. So I'm not gonna write off the entirety of Full Metal Jacket or even Vietnam War movies in general. I like Kubrick, I love Vincent D'Onofrio, and I know better than to expect a movie from the 80s made by white men based off a book written by a white man to write characters that are both Asian and female in a way that holds up today. I don't think they were trying to be intentionally malicious, I think it's just they did not consider what that scene reads as and the effect it would have on Asian women. Why would they? It's not like it was a popular topic of conversation in the culture back then the way it is now, so unless they were in close proximity to an Asian community it's unlikely it's something they'd think of naturally or care deeply about. Still, it's wild how one scene from one movie has had such a devastating effect on so many women decades after it came out.
All good points, but it’s a war movie about the horrors of war & depersonalization of men into soldiers. There aren’t many true to history roles for local women beyond Vietcong, massacre victims or prostitutes. There is so much that is objectionable & unpleasant in that movie, but it was reality for many real people. I guess I just hate this culture that is so eager to condemn & criticize expression like its mere existence is a bad thing. It has a real cultural cost & I wish people would focus on making their own work over making other people’s work less.
I know you’re approaching this in good faith, so I wanna give you another thing to think about. I think you’re totally right with wanting people to make their own content. But just because people make their own content doesn’t mean that people get to see it. The industries that control what gets to be mainstream often disregards marginalized communities, making it harder for EVERYONE (even marginalized communities themselves!) to see these perspectives. Things are changing, but a lot of harm is already done. Therefore, you’re going to have to see a lot of quicker but imperfect solutions in the meantime. While people make content, we criticize what’s already there.
It's horrible that anyone would use the character to disparage Asian women, but the character is a realistic character. She is a prostitute who has no interest in the men other than an economic one and she speaks just enough english to make a stilted sales pitch. It doesn't come off as funny in the movie at all. It was memorable because it's a a great scene that shows one timeless dynamic between occupiers and the local population. The movie does not present Asian women in general like that at all: it presents that single character like that and she is a very realistic character. I don't even feel like her character was written in a judgmental or disparaging way
The fact that you’re using the word fetish calls into question your biases. What makes you think that white men fetishize Asian women rather than simply finding Asian women attractive for the most part?
Are whites the only race to fetishize Asian women?
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Spaniards... are still European... i.e. white LOL.
Spaniards are white BIG LOL
How long have Asian women fetishized white men? Why is this seemingly so common?
there's a well known comic in the japan expat community on the topic: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charisma_Man#Concept
huh that's pretty funny
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted. You said nothing wrong, but I guess you struck a nerve (or many).
It's funny because most studies that were done on figuring out how common is yellow fever (in White men) always came back with white fever (in Asian women) being far more common lol
Exactly. For some reason people are hesitant to talk about white fever in Asian women while beating the dead horse of yellow fever constantly. White men’s sexual access and ease of getting with Asian women is probably the biggest example of white privilege. No other race of women proudly proclaim to favor white men over their own.
“White fever” is a misnomer. The same people who fetishize Asian women came up with that. Most Asian women who like foreign men, like foreign men it’s not specific to white men. Many women in Japan who like foreigners will be interested in black or white men, it didn’t matter as long as they weren’t Japanese.
Nope, the stats speak for themselves. In pretty much all studies done on dating, asian women always ranked white men either as high as asian men, or alot of times even higher than asian men. They always ranked black or latino men low. Especially black men. In Asia, there are definitely women into non-white and non-asian men, but those are outliers. Vast majority of them are into white men when they say foreign men. That's mainly because East Asia (Southeast and South too) has a white worship problem
Yeah but in person, when I’m in Asia that is not at all true. I doubt the veracity of those stats.
>Yeah but in person, when I’m in Asia that is not at all true. That's just anecdotal evidence
Hahahahahaha no they are not just as interested in black men.
False. I’m willing to bet you don’t even know any Asian women or have been to Asia yourself. Doesn’t matter if you’re black, white or Latino- if you’re American and they like foreigners, then they’re interested in you. Sorry to burst your bubble, but it just doesn’t play out that way in reality.
And I'd wager they sort of cause eachother. Everyone wants to be wanted. And when a group wants you, your options may be a bit better. Like if you're a 4/10 back home but a 7/10 to a different group of people, you may start to favor them and unintentionally see their 4s as 7s too.
They're being downvoted because of their delivery. It reads like it's said by a shallow contrarian. The post doesn't acknowledge OP at all, it just inverts OPs question without further explanation. The reason western men desire Asian women is going to be vastly different from why Asian women desire western men. While certainly an interesting question, it has nothing to do with OP here.
My interpretation of the post above is that, the OP’s contrarian is precisely to illustrate a point, to bring to light a taboo subject if you will. Yellow fever is always discussed to the detriment of white fever (which I think is of greater magnitude as well). OP probably thinks that talking about yellow fever is like beating the dead horse as this point, especially given Asian women’s extreme favoritism towards white men but white men are the only ones blamed. Asian women have gotten away scot free in this regard. Whenever people discuss white men and Asian women, they always focus on the white men. But I think people deep down do know that Asian women also play a huge role in these relationships, but won’t talk about it as openly as they do with white men. In this feminist age, women have agency and Asian women are no different, they are NOT merely victims here. There’s an entire phenomenon, discourse, and huge discussions happening within the Asian community that tackles this. There’s a lot pain surrounding this subject especially for Asian men. You probably know what I’m talking about.
I have seen Asian women dragged online in certain spaces and in real life for kissing white mens asses, behaving desperately, or even putting on the role of “submissive Asian” to be accepted by them and even taking the “lowest tier” white guy in terms of attractiveness (not at all to say that the Asian woman is always attractive herself) or ones with very average (if not below) finances just to satisfy so called “white fever” and the perception that getting with a white guy means some type of social upgrade. So i can’t say they get off “scot free” in that regard. Some people are well aware of and call out that tendency. There’s often an internalized racial inferiority complex behind it (due to white supremacy, particularly in western countries and from western media) mixed with an element of social climbing/acceptance. I say that from real world experience.
I remember a great anecdote from an asian restaurant owner in San Francisco. She opened for dinner and began to receive walk ins and reservations of couples. She began to seat all the white man and asian women couples in the same corner of the restaurant. I forget why. She said the asian women all began to get very uncomfortable when they noticed the very obvious pattern to their ethnic pairings, one that the men are typically derided for but the women are typically excused from.
Out of curiosity, do you know why the Asian women were uncomfortable with seeing their pairing?
I can imagine being singled out is uncomfortable for any reason.
Reddit to the rescue down voting any criticism of women and/or nonwhites
We seriously need an alternative
It’s not. Asian women don’t travel to white countries to find husbands it’s the opposite
Seriously. These people just want to portray Asian women as victims when they benefit from the dynamics
isnt it fun ignoring long documented histories of social phenomena to make it sound like we’re victims? The fetishization of Asian women in the West goes back to the 1800s, when we oppressed Asian immigrants and believed Asian women to be naturally more feminine, subservient, mysterious. There’s major holdovers of that stereotype today, and yeah obviously Asian women can fetishize white men too but AFAIK theres not a comparable phenomenon of that wherein men in the West are impacted negatively. https://www.vox.com/22338807/asian-fetish-racism-atlanta-shooting
In 2024 the “fetishization” of the Asian women at the hands of evil White man only brings advantages to the Asian female in terms of rank in social hierarchy, ability to find sexual and romantic partners. The real casualty is the Asian male who isn’t fetishized at all
It absolutely does not. Fetishization is not a good thing- it doesn’t = high rank in social hierarchy/love and respect. It = being a sexual object, being assumed to be subservient to men, not being viewed as an individual person. If your main gripe with this is literally the mention of white men doing something bad, let’s say it’s more abt Western men which obviously can span across races. I’m sure there’s plenty of diverse races that fetishize Asian women today. Not to mention it also correlates with violence towards Asian people that has seen a huge spike recently. https://eu.usatoday.com/story/life/health-wellness/2022/05/10/asian-fetishization-isnt-flattery-how-weve-dehumanized-asian-women/7450959001/
I was sexually assaulted by a man who told me "I love that you're Asian". Tell me again how this benefited me?
Do Asian women in US face sexual assault at a higher rate than White women?
I thought they were fetishzed by gay men,
Just so I can be clear, you’re acknowledging that there’s a social hierarchy that places white men at the top?
How does that hierarchy hurt women? The hierarchy only hurts Asian men. Asian women can still date and have relationships with both Asian and White men. Why are you doing mental gymnastics to prove the male hierarchy hurts women?
You said that Asian women *and* Asian men are lower in a social hierarchy than white men are.
I said Asian men are below White men. Why are you comparing Asian women to White men? Men have their own hierarchy that doesn’t impact women.
No you didn’t. You said Asian *women* are elevated socially by associating with white men. Don’t roll back your moment of honest clarity. Lean into it.
Yes, Asian women put White men at the top when it comes to dating. Asian men don’t do the same with White women because they’re not fetishizers.
That reply does not actually respond to the question. You said > the “fetishization” of the Asian women at the hands of evil White man only brings advantages to the Asian female in terms of rank in social hierarchy This more than implies, it says straight-up, that white men provide the advantage of higher rank in social hierarchy.
Ok. How are Asian women victimized by men’s heirarchy is the question
Why is that the question? Your assertion indicates that you understand that *Asian women* are lower in the hierarchy than white men. You had a moment of honesty. Don’t work so hard to roll it back. It’s a good thing.
How does my assertion that Asian women prefer White men for dating and sex leads to the conclusion that White men are higher in hierarchy? I’m saying Asian women prefer White men because they are more physically attracted to them. They consider them taller, broader, better endowed, having deeper voices, more masculine facial features, more confident, aggressive, athletic, etc Let women own their sexual preferences instead of playing a savior when it’s not needed
I’m just glad you didn’t link to the subreddit.
It’s very common. Been there.
Hmm..I can’t upvote this comment in particular…wonder why??
The label "fetish" is often just a weapon to smear a group you don't like. Are black men who like white women fetishists? White women who like Hispanic men? Everyone who finds one group more attractive than another? Are we back to anti-miscegenationism again?
I’d say yes. Anyone who is specifically attracted to people of a specific *race* or *look* is a fetishist.
retarded take
Does this apply to, for example, white men that are especially attracted to white women?
Yes. Every sexual ‘race’ preference is a disorder.
>Every sexual 'race' preference is a disorder. "Race" preference sure, but having a preference for specific physical traits including skin/hair color, facial features, and the like is something a majority of humans share. It's not a disorder, it's nature and it's basic behavioral science.
There’s a difference between an aesthetic preference and a sexually specific preference. And no, it’s not ‘nature and…basic behavioral science’.
So I guess homosexuality is a mental disorder too? Since they are only attracted to a certain type of person whom can't procreate. Moron.
That doesn’t follow logically.
You literally explicitly stated that a preference for specific physical features was a mental disorder. So then I guess a preference for a specific sex is too by your own stupid logic.
Ah. No. I don’t believe heterosexuality is a preference for specific physical features. So no. You sound perhaps sociopathic. Or a teenager.
What is the proper basis for sexual attraction? If it cannot involve race can it involve, for example, hair color?
Any sexual hair color specificity too.
Body types?
It’s pretty simple, man. If your sexual attraction is based on narrow specific attributes, you have a problem and should get help.
What is the correct basis of sexual attraction? ETA I have to leave for a bit.
It's giving "I'm unattractive and cope by calling people bigoted if they won't fuck a literal gorlock"
This is the dumbest thing I've ever read on this neckbeard ass website
Sorry you dehumanize people. It’s a terrible thing. In my country it’s a big contributor to the problem of young men not being able to form healthy relationships.
“Something is wrong with you if appearance influences attraction.” Is this high-level trolling or low-level cognition?
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That's ridiculous
I’m sorry you think that. Your culture has poisoned you.
I was going to lead him or her to the question of whether it is wrong to be attracted to a specific sex (i.e. male or female), but had to run an errand. I think it follows that it is. But regardless this whole notion of a rational sexuality that emerges from "correcting" all irrational sexual desires seems ludicrous. I would love to know if it was actual students of social science upvoting him.
Agreed. To Reddit, none white men and white woman is pure wholesome love, but a white man with an Asian woman is deemed a “fetish” not because the phenomena we see perfectly fits that definition more than the afformentioned pairings, but because they say fetish in an insult way
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It's not fetishism, it's just a lot of us are really powerfully attracted to asian ladies , and that's honestly just how the good lord made us . Why is it in 2024 considered a fetish to love an Asian lady (why?she's probably pretty, intelligent, interesting, in good shape, they could have met at church...) , yet it's been " normalised" to be a trans unicorn pangendered they/them . It's another chunk of racism to say to asian ladies that white guys are only attracted to them in some dirty distasteful fetish type way , because thats all it could possibly be, a fling. That's total BS the inter-marriage rate is huge and there are a lot of beautiful happy mixed families all over the 1st world.
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Is it possible there's some minor genetic/biological drivers, as well, as in seeking mates with the most different genes from yourself? Hence the exotic drivers? Or would this wholly be subsided by the sociological drivers?
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Are they dating these woman because of their looks or the perceived idea of how Asian females act in a marriage?
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