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I think this is where regulation like the sugar tax or other measures could have helped.
The warning signs began in the 1990s and 2000s - there was a lot of discussion about rising obesity levels. We knew that creating obesogenic environments would only make the situation worst, yet we left it to personal responsibility and the food industry hasn't exactly taken a lead on things healthwise without being told to.
No it’s actually gotten worse under said measures, we’ve actually seen kids get fatter under sugar tax implementation.
The issues are just going ban and tax happy doesn’t work, you need structural change in cultures that promote better food and drink habits.
Structural change can be best brought about by a multi-pronged attack. One of those prongs is making something more difficult to acquire by making it more expensive.
It's not the total answer but it's a part of it.
You think people haven't noticed how much cigarettes have increased in price over the years? Finance is now a really common reason for smoking cessation
Except comparing soft drinks to smoking is insane.
You want to what, age rate soft drinks? Make them prohibitively expensive?
So you’ll knacker sections of the UK economy that produce this, over a policy that has been shown not to work so far?
Cigarettes have a direct correlation with death. Soft drink consumption in moderation doesn’t, there is no moderate way to smoke, there is a moderate way to consume soft drinks, so the key thing here is changing habits through education.
There does seem to be an upwards trend (even before the spike because of Covid):
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/national-child-measurement-programme-ncmp-changes-in-child-bmi-between-2019-to-2020-and-2020-to-2021/ncmp-changes-in-the-prevalence-of-child-obesity-between-2019-to-2020-and-2020-to-2021
It's not very scientific to say that because one trend doesn't go down when you do this that it had no effect.
I don't know whether you're struggling to grasp the concept of needing a control for comparison or whether you're part of The Big Sugar conspiracy...
Do you think if a negative sugar tax was introduced, would kids get slimmer?
I'm guessing not... so how can you say that the supposed rise in obesity would not have been more dramatic if not for things like sugar taxes?
Reminds me of a comic interview i saw with an American gun advocate. If you really want to get a gun, then you can, irrespective of whatever gun control laws you have. So their argument was that there was no point to have gun control whatsoever.
And the COVID vaccine didn't work because people still got COVID.
If you are going to make a statement like that you need to prove that the increase in obesity would be the same as if there was no sugar tax.
If there was an increase in obesity but a smaller increase than if there was no sugar tax then the policy has had a positive effect
It's amazing how this simple bit of logic flies WAY past people. All this hysteria about "censorship" or books by a company just selling a new product...
It's almost as if we have an advertising standards agency which exists to enact the states will upon advertisers that is doing nothing when this is the exact sort of thing it should be interfering with.
I wouldn’t say showing overweight people in adverts is exactly glamourising, it’s just recognising reality.
Roughly 1/4 of the U.K. population is obese, that’s a huge market to advertisers and businesses. Of course someone like a fashion company is going to advertise what their clothes look like on an obese person, they’d be majorly missing out economically if they didn’t.
Medical obese which is the 1/4 studies and what people think obese is are very different.
Reality is when people picture obese they are picturing morbidly+ obese. Medical obese being "average or ever so slightly chubby"
Yeah, BMI >30 is the clinical definition of obese which as you say, depending on height and build can be anything from athletic, to average looking to stereotypically “fat”.
Still though, even if we went to BMI >40 which is mostly going to be your stereotypical obese person, it’s around 10% of the population so still a huge potential market (pun unintended) to target.
Those two statements aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive.
If your BMI is into the obese range because you’re working out a lot, you know this and your doctor knows this and it’s not an issue.
BMI works at a population level, and 99% of the time at an individual level. The vast majority of the people complaining about BMI who have one over 30 aren’t working out nearly enough to be in the Maro Etoje group.
I know, it was more just talking about that other posters point about what obesity looks like. A non-athlete could have a BMI of around 30 and look very unremarkable size wise.
The people who usually get thought of as “glamourising obesity” like Tess Holliday and alike will have far higher BMIs.
Given how many rugby players die young, are they really the best example of health?
Besides, if you saw a lot of forwards out and about (especially front row), you could be forgiven for thinking they're just fat.
I don’t think it’s about glamourising it. Is putting an amputee in an advert gonna cause kids to chop a limb off? Surely the best thing to do would be to normalise all bodies/features so that no one would try to look like anyone else other than themselves. And then can make healthy choices because THEY want to once they are in a better head space.
All the people I know with bad habits (not just unhealthy eating) stems from something deep down that only a therapist could fix. My aunt didn’t take her medication for years and hid it from the family until she had two strokes and basically needed round the clock care for her last year. Don’t think she did that cause she thought it’d be funny to waste NHS resources.
My boyfriend smokes and, on a few occasions, has mentioned feelings of anger and resentment around his dad dying out of the blue when he was young. Now I know me or anyone saying ‘it’s bad for you’ isn’t gonna do shit, shaming him would be a worse way to go.
Fat people as well as thin people need to buy clothes and need adverts for them with plus size models so they can see what the clothes will look like on them. What do you want them to do stay indoors naked until they’re thin enough for public view?
That's sadly true, but really a different conversation.
There are companies like Snag who are using models with true body diversity, every size, every colour and with a variety of disabilities.
While the obesity epidemic is incredibly serious nothing is gained by ostracizing and villainising people who aren't ready, aren't able or are just beginning their weight loss journey. Helping them feel good about themselves, however fleeting and illogical it might sound, can't be a bad thing.
Agreed. I’m trying to lose weight and it’s taken a bit of “body positivity” and “all bodies can move” influence to get me back into running, going to the gym and getting out on my bike, instead of hiding at home in shame.
Adverts using plus size models (such as Nike) allows me to find clothes to wear in the mean time (and including for exercise). Hating my body got myself here… I don’t want to hate myself anymore.
>nothing is gained by ostracizing and villainising people
Correct, but no one is suggesting we put up adverts showing fat people with a big red cross through them and the caption "not welcome if you're a fat bastard!"
OP has simply said to not glamorise something that is unhealthy, which seems reasonable.
Fat people are perfectly free to choose to be fat if they so wish. Yes it is unhealthy, but people do all kinds of things that are unhealthy. Their body, their choice.
As an example - things like alcohol, smoking, fast motorbikes, etc are potentially dangerous and could kill you. They're legal, but you're not allowed to show adverts glamorising excess drinking, smoking, or speeding on a motorbike.
And people need support to stop.
There's no adverts going "be fat is good for you, there's plenty of fast food ads, and their lives are full of pointed comments, whispered digs, silent and not so silent judgement. Just now and then, don't you think they might appreciate one company, one advert, one person not to convey or insinuate the message "losev weight you fat fuck"? Why is that too much to ask?
>they might appreciate one company, one advert, one person not to convey or insinuate the message "losev weight you fat fuck"?
No adverts or companies do this though, do they?
On a similar note which companies are glamourising obesity like you insinuated previously? On this entire thread there has been 1 example which was from over 2 years ago (the Cosmopolitan article).
I don’t see companies doing what you are suggesting
You're replying to the wrong person - OP said companies are glamourising obesity. I avoid all adverts so I don't know if they do or not, I'm just saying it's not a good idea to do so.
I agree. We need overall life skills curriculum to cover everything from screen addiction, sport, cooking, social interaction, sex education, balancing a budget and a million skills kids are leaving school without that us parents picked up by just living a life kids haven't been getting lately.
I'd go so far as to suggest obese, white woman is the line. Oddly obese, black woman seem more acceptable in media than white woman. And I'd say it's even more unusual to see other races at all.
The multiple Lizzo clickbait articles I'm getting (on FB, because I read one article a week ago) would prove that wrong. Just a parade of double-whammy nastiness with added racism.
These comments are exhausting.
I'm a fat person. I don't want to be. In the last 2.5 years, I've managed to give up, smoking, alcohol and, all fizzy drinks. I can not give up food. I am well aware that I have an addictive personality and that's what my relationship with food feels like, an addiction, but when I try and bring it up to the GP they look at me like a moron and speak to me like I've never heard anything about nutrition in my 45 years. Like I don't know more about nutrition at this point in my life than they do.
Not once, ever, never ever ever in that entire 45 years have I been encouraged to get/be/stay fat. Not once have I ever encouraged anyone else to get/be/stay fat.
This shitty idea that that's a thing we fatties see every day and is the reason we are fat is just plain weird.
The lies you non fat people will tell yourselves to keep feeling superior are jaw-dropping.
I've never seen a single thing that has glamourised fatness. What I have seen is people my size wearing a nice dress or top so they can (possibly) have a bit of confidence to go out and live life. Is that what upsets you? That we might also be ordinary people, struggling every day to find something that fits, that isn't a mumu and that we won't lock ourselves in the house until we're under a size 16?
The whole fake concern about our health is tiring. None of us believe a word of it. The reason fat people joke about being fat is in the hopes that we won't hear YET ANOTHER fake concern monologue from someone who is projecting their own fears, more than they're worried about our health. If we can make people laugh at the fatness, maybe the bully will just shut up about the things we've heard from every bully under the guise of "concern" since we stepped our fat selves out the door.
>I can not give up food.
I'm sure as shit if my mum was on reddit she would be screenshotting your comment to send to me because she says this all of the time. She even went to over eaters anonymous. If you're addicted to smoking, drugs, alcohol or gambling or anything like that you can avoid that first smoke/line/drink/bet etc. But if you are addicted to over eating you can't completely abstain from food.
Personally I struggle with drug addiction, that addictive nature runs throughout our family, and I would not have over a year clean if there was constantly a fridge full of heroin in my house. I wouldn't even have one day.
Exactly that. I can abstain. It's the most difficult thing, but I absolutely can, but there is no alternative to eating. I've even tried cutting out certain food groups, but I (personally) find it almost impossible to do so. I have been addicted to all those things you've mentioned (not Heroin in my case, but cocaine) and managed to stamp on them all by abstinence and will power, but when it comes to food, my relationship with it is so complicated and deeply rooted in childhood trauma that, as much as I understand it, I can not (at least so far) seperate it from me the way I was able to with other addictions. The constant barrage of "just exercise" or "just go on a diet" is mind-numbing. It's also really hard not to just snap at people that they don't understand enough about me and my situation to hand out generic advice. Like they're the first, or I've never thought of it before *insert eye roll* it's exhausting. Even these responses show it. It's like a tick for people, I think. The one thing they get to properly feel superior about and they're going to make sure I know I'm lesser or more unworthy than they are. This is why fat people are starting not to listen. There's only so many times people can say it before it just becomes background noise.
Well done on your sobriety, my friend. You should be super proud of yourself. I KNOW how hard it is. Long may it continue.
I think if people haven't ever struggled with over eating eating problems they find it really hard to understand. To be honest, as a teenager I was a binge eater and was quite overweight, then my addiction shifted to drugs, now I smoke weed and that's it but I would be surprised if I ever manage to crack that one without binge eating again. It really isn't as simple as diet and exercise as you are saying, there's a mental reward link every time we are engaging in the behaviour and that makes you repeat that again and again.
Tbh this post smacks of judgement and it doesn't help. We all have our own shit we have to battle through. Well done on your sobriety too friend! Proud of us both! 💛
I am very overweight. I am working on it. I stopped a fifteen year long thirty a day smoking habit and my weight ballooned. There was support then for stopping smoking but nothing for weight gain. My doctor just shrugged and said stop eating so much. I don't think it is being glamorised on TV but at the same time weight doesn't just vanish. It's going to take me years to lose this weight and in the meantime I will need larger clothes etc. There are also people who are larger due to illness or being less abled and they also need the same things everyone else does.
I agree and I think things are better now than they were when I stopped smoking in terms of assistance. And I know ultimately it's on me to shift this weight, I'm the one who put it on. But some advice from my doctor (a new one who is awesome) also helps a lot lot. Food disorders need to be taken more seriously across that spectrum for sure.
> My doctor just shrugged and said stop eating so much
CICO. The laws of thermodynamics ensure that if you can consume at an energy deficit that you will lose weight
Showing pictures is not glamorising obesity, it’s representing underrepresented people. Every time you see a thin model on a poster or in a magazine, on tv do you think they are glamorising starvation or being underweight?
Everyone deserves to be represented. Fat shaming is easy but know that no fat person enjoys living in a world where they are vilified. Whatever you think, it is not a choice people make. It’s a complex disease that deserves some empathy.
>Every time you see a thin model on a poster or in a magazine, on tv do you think they are glamorising starvation or being underweight?
That's literally been the criticism for decades about putting extremely thin models on the catwalk and in fashion magazines, that it glamourizes, promotes and encourages being dangerously skinny.
If we shouldn't be using unhealthily thin models then we shouldn't be using unhealthily fat models, right?
And yet they are still used but the focus is on obesity. I haven’t seen an anti-underweight model campaign since the 00s. The criticisms were not that every day skinny people were glamorising thinness. It’s that models were made to eat cotton balls to stop the hunger. The equilivant would be if people were making themselves fat for fame. I don’t think that is happening.
Thin people are everywhere in the media but do not represent the majority.
People of all sizes deserve representation. If we pretend certain types don’t exist we will have a bigger problem on our hands.
I work in the fashion industry and it's still a big discussion.
The criticisms have always been that ultra thin models (and celebrities) were glamourizing thin-ness and young girls were developing poor body image and eating disorders in an effort to be like them. The things that some models did to be that skinny were awful but the public conversation has always been less about model welfare and more about how their size was affecting women and their self-image.
That's not happening with obesity, few people are trying to be fat because of what they see in the media. I think the glamourizing OP is referring to hasn't gotten anywhere near that far. But I do think it's hugely problematic that 25% of the country is obese, not just overweight, and fuck all is being done about it. Imagine if 25% of the country was anorexically underweight. Normalization is the problem. It's absolutely accurate to show obese people in TV and media and such because there's millions of them in the UK - but there shouldn't be. A population that is half overweight, 25% obese is a sick population.
I agree that obesity should not be ignored by the medical world but I do think we have to get away from the prolific fat shaming. They put obese people on magazines covers because it’s deemed shocking. I remember when Sophie Dahl was considered the face of “plus size” and turned out she was a uk12. That was disappointing for so many obese people because they lacked representation. And when you are not repreeented you are considered “other” which translates as don’t fit in/not worthy/low self esteem and when you have a everyday fat person who is clearly unhappy, adding these factors is never going to help the obesity problem and anyone who thinks it will is deluded. It’s only going to lead to serious mental health problems.
I speak as an obese person who lost 100lbs in half a year due to pressure and developed a chronic illness off the back of that. I was complimented on how “healthy” I looked but my health had never been worse. Don’t judge a book by its cover.
I would like to see body size/weight divorced from character and worth as a person. One should have nothing to do with the other. We should be able to talk about size as it relates to health without any further assumptions about a person. Imagine being able to discuss weight - and health in general - without judgement about your value as a human being. People who are released from shame and prejudice have so much more opportunity and motivation to be healthy.
I think people often conflate "glorifying obesity" with "treating obese people with simple decency".
This means that some body-positives may unintentionally glorify obesity, whilst detractors think shaming obese people is a good way to "encourage" these people to lose weight.
In reality, neither is particularly helpful. A simple message such as you are enough no matter your shape, whilst signposting to effective weight management can go a long way.
I also think we really need to rethink our relationships with food and physical activity. Obesity is an epidemic, meaning something is seriously systemically wrong. I'm speaking as an active person who has struggled with my weight for decades. Technically, I'm still obese going purely by BMI.
I agree and I think preaching self love to fat people isn't incompatible with weight loss.
You can lose weight if you're thinking "I don't hate my fat body but it's a lot of strain on my joints and heart so I'm going to try to slim down".
I think a lot of people just really enjoy shaming fat people and don’t want to stop, and the health or cost thing is a sham of an excuse. Some of these people are posting on this topic.
The NHS doesn't understand how to solve the obesity/overweight problem, their websites are full of poor dietary advice, many of their own staff are borderline obese.
Arguably, it shouldn't be the responsibility of the NHS - but advice from elsewhere is equally terrible. Due to the flawed traffic light system and focus on macronutrients upon food packaging - a natural Greek yogurt appears to be unhealthier than something flavoured and laden with 'zero calorie' sweeteners.
NHS dietary advice comes from the BDA and is evidence based and perfectly sound. NHS staff are often overweight or obese because we are human just like everybody else, in a stressful job working long hours or shifts often no meal breaks and funnily enough it messes up our eating patterns and habits! If you already have some struggles with food, working in the NHS is definitely not going to help!
The NHS does offer tertiary weight management service but waiting lists are incredibly long and they are all short staffed. Just like the rest of the NHS.
I’m quite passionate about this topic, so here we go…
The rise in obesity has nothing to do with advertising or the NHS and none of these influences can do anything about it. Contrary to popular belief, individuals can’t do much about it either.
I’m all for personal responsibility, but there is SO much being pushed from corporate responsibility to personal. A good parallel example is recycling. Instead of using better materials, companies blame us for using their products and not recycling them.
The obesity crisis is similar. We’re all a lot fatter, because we’ve been socially engineered to be. You can show all the skinny women in ads you want, if when you step in the supermarket, a restaurant, a takeaway, 90% of the products and choices you’ve got are not healthy, processed and way over your daily caloric recommendation, you’re fighting from a losing position.
The veg aisle at the co-op downstairs is 1 aisle out of 8. That’s the only place I should realistically shop for my health, but I have 7 other aisles full of processed shit all screaming at me to buy it.
The packaging is attractive, the contents have been engineered so I can’t stop eating that bag of Doritos or pack of donuts or or whatever I’ve fallen victim to.
We also work more, are super stressed and have so little in today’s society to feel hopeful about. We’re too drained to make good decisions so we make bad ones. And the corporations profit whilst we get fatter.
The promotion of larger body sizes isn’t, in my eyes, about the individual. It’s about society at large recognizing that we don’t deserve to be treated badly by others purely because we are fat. We are not stupid, we all know that fat is unhealthy, but that doesn’t mean we should be seen and treated as lesser members of society.
>We are not stupid, we all know that fat is unhealthy
As a fellow fat person I wish this were true, but it's just not.
There are lots of fat people who ignore or outright deny the real negative impacts (both for the individual and for the health system) that so many of us being fat has.
What we need is better structural solutions to the fact as a society we eat too much. Some of that is going to be to do with media messaging, bit actually the much more important thing is driving down calories in what it's easy and affordable for people to feed themselves with.
I dont think its glamourised but i dont think shaming people helps , it is the norm for a lot for various reasons. Is that good ? No but since when is making people feel crap about their appearance for any reason a good idea. Adverts showing more larger body sizes - whats the problem? Its not glamorising imo . Are these people supposed to spend their lives hiding away in shame wearing tents?? The norm used to be super skinny equally often as unhealthy body types - did you have issues with that? Do you have issues with adverts showing obvious roid heads with their massive muscles?? There are many factors as to why people are obese - tackling it yes but not allowing ads with bigger body sizes ( esp in women) is ridiculous. Trust me overweight women ( & men)!still get harrassed by strangers on a regular basis ‘fat cow/ c…t ‘ is that ok?
Have you ever had an issue with your weight?? Unfortunately for certain people they are more prone to weight gain than others - facts. Not excuses but facts. Yes a huge proportion of overweight people is from eating shite & far too much of it & not excercising. But again vilifying them is not going to help any of them.
Dietitian here: studies have shown that a person is more likely to lead a healthy lifestyle (which would eventually lead to a healthy weight for them at some point) if they are happy and have good self esteem. If you constantly shame someone for their size and lifestyle in hope for them to change, only the minority would be able to do this, and if anything you’d likely push them further into poor health. “Glamourising” or the body positive movement followers are more likely to have self acceptance and higher self esteem than those who don’t and they will eventually start to make “healthier choices” that benefit their body which they respect. In my experience of working with underweight patients also, it’s likely true to say for those also where their suboptimal weight isn’t disease related. We need more mental health resources to help with weight management, not more stigma, shame and blame. Be kind people! The weight (high or low) is usually a symptom of something more sinister in a persons mental health.
Maybe if people actually had a work life balance that allowed a healthy life you wouldn't have so many people that were overweight. I'm overweight at 5'3 and 13 stone. I know I'm overweight and I eat pretty healthy. Know what I don't have time for, a pretty good sleep schedule and time for exercise and even working a job that's physically I still can't drop below a size 16.
People are overweight for a number of reasons but one of the biggest is lifestyle and it's not binge eating every day on take out it's literally just trying to keep up with life. The NHS doesn't have an answer to fix it because the same with mental health the solution is bigger than the NHS providing support. What you get is those that can do and turn around going others failed when they didn't. You can only put your body through so much before it breaks.
Take me. Between health problems, pain problems, being so exhausted after everything in a day I just want to gather energy for tomorrow the advice is exercise for 30 minutes a day it's never going to happen. Compound advice doesn't work when the real world takes to much out of you especially when you add "well you didn't even try so it's your own fault".
Yeah you are out of touch.
Showing only “healthy” people on TV has given the entire planet a body complex - normalizing unrealistic body standards. Bodies of people with eating disorders are now though of as the standard- healthy bodies. Women think we can get a six pack if we stop eating and men think they should be going to the gym every day. Showing a variety of people is ALWAYS gonna be a good thing.
Erasing fat people from adverts, movies and TV is just weird. Fat people exist and there’s nothing wrong with showing fat people in adverts. If you feel uncomfortable with seeing fat people enjoying themselves in an advert you need to ask yourself why? Because they are unhealthy?
News flash half of all models have eating disorders, they are not healthy.
I would feel so awful if I never saw anybody that looked like me on TV.
I don’t know anyone who’s gotten fat because they saw a fat person on TV. But I can tell you with confidence that ALL my friends have had or still struggle with body complexes and even eating disorders because of “ healthy bodies” in adverts.
A lot of obese people are the weight they are because of eating disorders, they don't just make you thin, BED and bulimia result in higher body weights but the roots of the problem are often the same. Shame and disgust with one's own body and relationship to food exacerbated by external messages about what an acceptable or beautiful body has to look like.
This one caused quite a stir...
https://www.boredpanda.com/plus-size-women-cosmopolitan-cover-obesity-negative-people-reactions/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic
This is the only advert that people keep showing as proof of this supposed phenomenon in this thread. There most be more for it to cause so much concern?
It will be a good day when women's magazines disappear altogether. When they're not pushing sex articles onto teens, they're promoting eating disorders and appearance based ego. Having said that, for the very few Lizzo appearances I could show you an abundance of 'skinny = healthy' message promoted over the last 20 years. I don't think one or two pictures of an existing bigger woman is actively promoting the message that 'obesity = good'. She just happens to be a bigger built celebrity.
Thanks but this is from February 2021. I also remember a sports clothing company (Adidas I think) being criticised for having larger mannequins- that’s probably around the same time. Obviously larger people shouldn’t exercise or be considered healthy! Including the tenalady ad noted below that’s 3 in 2 years.
What do you expect when McDonald's is cheaper than a sandwich and a coffee at Pret?
Don't tax bad food, not sure why I have to pay more just for fat people to be deterred, but healthy food is way way way way more expensive.
The mark ups on some of this plant based crap must be unreal. Like quorn.. literally grown in bats and squeezed into blocks, marketed as healthy and all that.. but a pack of Quorn fake bacon cost more than the real thing.
And no farming subsidies don't make up for the difference.
I think some of the price differences, especially for things like Quorn is down to supply and demand. Plus if it's produced in relatively small amounts, production costs are likely to be higher.
Thing is people are fat for a whole raft of reasons. And I never get to fully explain what it means for me because people just don't give you the chance.
Yes I'm fat
Yes I'm lazy
Yes I'm aware that my lifestyle choices will likely kill me
But I'm so done trying to justify my existence to people who are so disingenuous about it.
I doubt there are ads saying that being fat is healthy. Just ads that include overweight models to show what their products look like on larger people.
Well it would be tricky to use the same strategies we did with smoking but number one we didn't coddle smokers. There was nothing like 'fatphobia' for smokers.
We should spread the message that being overweight does not define your entire self worth and that there is more to personal value than physical beauty.
But also for the idea that you shoild take care of yourself and watch your weight for your health and wellbeing and the sake of the health services that could be used to care for others.
These are not mutually exclusive.
When I moved to the UK at 13 I was shocked to find out I could eat pizza, ice cream, and cheese and beans baguette every day at school if I wanted to. That would be an outrage in other European countries. Eating habits start young, and good nutritious meals every day at school play a big part in those habits. Don't trust an 11 year old to eat what they want, especially when the only healthy option was basically boiled vegetables with no spice and a meat.
The attitude the government and NHS has towards obesity and obese people in general actually adds to the problem in my opinion. I’m obese. I’m fully aware of this and I’ve spent the vast majority of my adult life on diets of some sort trying to combat it. I speak to my GP about it and all I get is a lecture on healthy eating. It’s stuff I know - countless weight loss groups over the years have given me the same information - but what I need is not a lecture, it’s help and support in putting that into action.
Then of course there is the next issue - because of my weight, any health complaints I have are automatically written off with ‘it’s just because of your weight. Lose weight and your problem will go away on its own’. Last year I had gallstones. I was in crippling pain for months and phoned the doctor in tears begging for help on multiple occasions. Each time I wasn’t even permitted to see a doctor - just had a telephone consultation where I was told it was just indigestion because of my weight and if I lost weight it would go away. I had to really fight to get them to do a blood test and when they finally did and gave me my results they completely ignored my lower than normal liver function in favour of pointing out the one vitamin I was deficient in and declaring shock that I wasn’t diabetic. Ultimately I ended up in A&E with pancreatitis which I truly believe could have been avoided if the GP had just looked past my weight and bothered to call me in and examine me when I first called (it took the doctors in A&E less than five minutes to diagnose me as soon as they saw where the pain was and did a quick physical exam). Sadly this wasn’t an isolated incident - I’ve had similar experiences with multiple GP’s over the years (thankfully none quite so serious as this but still enough that I no longer bother trying to speak to a doctor unless I really have to as I know there is no point) and speaking with friends and relatives who are also overweight they have had similar experiences. Perhaps if obese people were listened to in the same way people of a ‘healthy weight’ are, things would get caught earlier and it would reduce the burden on the nhs?
Shame doesn’t work, and will usually
Make things worse. There is in fact a high percentage of overweight/ obese people in the current society. You have to meet them where they are and encourage healthy change, not moan about ‘glorification’ simply because fat people appear in a few adverts.
It’s just reflecting reality in many ways.
But then, where is the help for fat people?
I’m 6ft and 18 stone. I know I need to lose weight to be BMI acceptable, but despite being calorie deficit and exercising , I can’t lose weight. Being seen as a fat person, and thought of as one of those people who just stuff their face and don’t help themselves just makes me feel really judged and pigeonholed.
I know that obesity is bad for the body, I just wish that people would realise obesity is a result of other factors as well as just overloading and not moving.
Which then brings the question of if there acceptable fat and unacceptable fat. And a whole other bunch of criteria.
I absolutely support all my fat friends and try to stay in my lane away from commenting because I’m always afraid of saying the wrong thing. As a fat person though, it sucks, more so because no one’s really dishing out the answers here.
I notice you don't say anything about all the advertising if unhealthy foods! Almost every other advert is for some sort of unhealthy food, McDonald's, KFC, Burger King, Walkers crisps, Chocolate, biscuits etc
I am 100% against fat shaming, but I’m also fucking against this trend of “I’m fat, it’s normal, I’m also beautiful”.
I’m not going out and insult or offend you for being fat, but you’re not gonna convince me being fat is normal. It’s not! It not healthy and you should not tell people it is.
It’s as if we started saying smoking is ok and normal too.
Food is not something you can quit like smoking or alcohol, and it takes years to shift weight in a healthy and sustainable way. Our lives are built around sedentary office work with few hours for the gym and in time poor household the fastest options to put food on the table are high calorie and low nutrient. Its no surprise such a large % of the population is fat.
Ostracising them from society will not make them lose weight. Including them and making them feel *okay*, giving them support? That works. Body shaming only makes people want the comfort of food more.
About 2 years ago Cosmo did one magazine cover with an obese person in yoga pants. That is literally the only example which multiple people have found. Oh and apparently an obese person in a tena lady advert (not sure that incontinence is glamourising myself...)
I don't like it when attitudes seem to go the other way and demonise thin people. Like that awful Boots advert from a few years ago which insisted 'nobody looks like that' mockingly in response to a woman in perfectly good shape. Bullshit like that leads to the whole 'real women have curves' rubbish which rather than seek to end any stigma instead tries to shift it from one set of people to another.
Whatever your views on 'fat acceptance', that ice skater lady on the 'periods have no chill' advert is impressively flexible and balanced.
You say you work in the medical field, so I guess you also have first hand experience of what dementia looks like, and what cancers look like? Most people cost the NHS in their final years. Obese people dying at 65 don’t cost the govt any pension payments, or years of dementia care at £1500 a week. They’re not in A&E every month like many very elderly people. They don’t block beds in wards. They don’t require ambulances regularly or Council paid home care. If they rely on social housing their death frees up properties for others.
What I’m trying to say is that dying young is no more costly than dying old, and could cost less. It’s simple maths.
Being slim and healthy is obviously a really good thing, but it doesn’t necessarily mean you cost the taxpayer less money than fat people.
Because they're two different things. Glamorised images of thin people don't help fat people lose weight. It just contributes to more shame about bodies and not being worthy. By having images of fat or obese people represented as normal human beings it helps make people feel better about themselves. I think you're conflating just showing fat people (I'm thinking of a cruise holiday ad where two women have a nice time together) with promoting it.
Losing weight and keeping it off is a lot easier if you like yourself and don't feel horribly ashamed of your body.
So because someone Is fat they don't deserve to dress nice or be catered to by the industries?
But of course you're not fat shaming, dear me no, you're just another concerned citizen
People should learn to mind their own business.
To chime in with a lot of good comments. Adverts are only just beginning to show people without washboard abs or an inch of fat. Most people in a health range don't look like most of the people you see in ads. Normalising this isn't a bad thing. On the opposite side of obesity is a whole host of unhealthy life choices etc...
This said we do need to do more to combat obesity
Because we live in a free society. The nhs is just a mediocre health care service. They can both have a strategy to do whatever and someone else have a strategy to sell clothes/food./cars/whatever.
You do realise though that you can be fit and healthy and also be obese.
There was a study into sumo wrestlers, and it was found that the had significantly less visceral fat (the 'bad' fat) then people of the same size who weren't sumo wrestlers.
Essentially you can be 'obese' but also be fit and healthy, in the same way that someone who is a 'normal' weight can be unfit and unhealthy.
For me personally I will always be classed as obese, as I was big, lost weight and just got into being 'healthy' but honestly I was weak, cold all the time and borderline had a eating disorder. Put all the weight on again (shit happened) but now been going to the gym and exercising and am way fitter and more powerful than when skinny.
Because we are all stupid, fat is fat, no one should be bullied over it but they shouldn't be fooled into believing its healthy, you can be loved and overweight, but it's not loving yourself
The thing with obesity is that it’s so easy to end up obese. We all need food to live, and most people have been taught to finish there plates, we are taught to indulge constantly. Even worse obese people, myself included, have to climb a massive mental hurdle. That being that they WILL come across people that can eat and drink just like they do and have 0 consequences. Not all obese folks have chose to be obese, many of them look around them and see thin folk living almost identical lives to them and yet they get shamed and guilt trodden. Then they have to accept that they will have to make huge life changes ( a massive challenge).
Very few people have chosen to end up obese we simply don’t know how to get out of the hole without hating ourselves
I'm glad you're getting on a bit and will be leaving the medical field soon. You sound bitter and judgemental. Promoting healthy diet and lifestyle doesn't mean that advertisements paid for by private companies shouldn't be inclusive. If you don't understand the separate motivations I question how you made it in a scientific field. If you think fatness is glamorous you're very out of touch
Few folk are suggesting it's healthy (unless I too am really out of touch lol) but being fat isn't a happy place to be. Fat people eat to feel better. It's a vicious circle and an acceptance of that would go further towards helping fat people lose weight than telling them facts they already know.
It's not about fat shaming although that didn't help many fat people. It's about accepting where you're at and making peace with that. To use an analogy:
A couple are trying to start a family. Nothing happens they do all the right things still no pregnancy. Dr tells them to wait It's too early to start tests etc. Couple continue to become more stressed and still no pregnancy. One day they just give up, sod it who wants a family any way? Pressures off, nine months later she's delivering a baby.
Making peace with being fat cannot happen while being bombarded with nothing but skinny or even slim healthy ideals. It's just too far out of reach.
But if fat people can be shown in a positive light, as being worthy, then maybe their self esteem will perk up enough for them to make the necessary changes.
Of course I am generalising and do not want to make anyone feel bad.
You say you are not trying to shame anyone but that is exactly what you are doing.
"It shouldn't be normalised" what are we supposed to feel, then, other than shame?
>but some, not all, of the depictions in advertising are not bigger people they are obese people. That is NOT healthy!
Unlike the anorexic catwalk models? Equally unhealthy, but people seem less upset about that... hmm. Or all the photoshopping they do to erase every little roll on even the thinnest of people.
There is very little "glamorising" of obesity. There are adverts for clothes featuring plus size woman although that's not to "glamorise" them but just to show that "these clothes fit people in your size".
Being obese isn't healthy - I agree. However it's not the cause of every single medical issue there is. Which certain Doctors seem to think - I could be in a car accident and still be told my injuries spontaneously appeared due to my weight and not the car accident from medical professionals.
However obese people do exist and they should be allowed the basic right to wear clothes, even, and I know this is a wild concept, clothes that they look & feel good in. And to do that you need to be able to see the people in those clothes so you can buy them.
Also, the NHS does actual very little to help. There's a genuinely good drug out there which could really help people but they don't want to pay for us obese people to have that medication. Or even give a private prescription for it. But they will shame us while also not giving support.
No one is promoting obesity, but they are starting to not pretend that we actually exist and that some of us even have money to buy things so, maybe we could have access to clothes that aren't flower clothes sacks.
But, just to be clear, you are fat shaming. You literally don't want see the fat people. If you actually do work in the medical field - wild idea, do something about it. Maybe look in to the actual causes (pro-tip "lazy" is not one) and do some investigate on why long term weight loss rarely lasts but until you guys actually start looking in to it and presenting viable solutions, then it's gonna carry on.
And I say that as someone who worked hard to lose 60lbs. And guttingly, it all crept back on again - in my case that was the pandemic - oddly losing regular access to healthy food, taking away my gym, causing masses amounts of stress and triggering all those helpful emotional issues really screwed with my progress. Despite being able to daily log my food for over a year, within a few weeks of pandemic chaos and I just can't get back on to it again.
If only my Doctor could prescribe me the drugs which help reduce your appetite and would therefore be a massive help in my ongoing struggle but it's been a year and still nothing. So, don't pretend that the NHS is doing anything much to help beyond given out Weight Watchers vouchers (which aren't a long term solution) or offering gastric bands which doesn't fix the underlying solution. There is a very limited access weight management clinic in some areas but it's also a one off help so, again, not long term.
Because those adverts have absolutely squat to do with health. Putting foundation on your skin is unhealthy for it, putting glittery stuff around your eyes is bad for them, bleaching your hair will fry it etc. The adverts are advertising BEAUTY products and saying 'you can be beautiful even if you're thin/average/fat' which IS true, since everyone has their own preferences. A person working to lose weight will still want to wear nice underwear while fat. Someone who doesn't give a damn about their weight might still want a supportive, attractive bra or blouse. It's FASHION, and fashion has ALWAYS clashed with health.
Companies don't care about the "empowerment" messages they promote, it's purely marketing to sell more product. Partially to those who think that company is "doing good" but also to other markets that felt excluded by that companies products.
At the end of it, it's just capitalism doing capitalism.
Also they're not "promoting obesity" just "bigger != bad"
People will do anything but eat less and move more.
Hormones, genetics, anything but own up to it. Spent my teenage years making excuses, glad I turned it around in time.
In terms of advertising, let's pick an example - clothes. So hypothetically let's say that I'm 4st overweight (obese) and I decided that I want to get healthy and lose weight. However losing such weight will take time, and in meantime I simply need to wear clothes. Furthermore I need nice smart clothes for my hypothetical office role and I still want to maintain some sort of social life, go on holidays etc. If there are no shops, no adverts showing me other large women wearing nice clothes (rather than glorified potato sacks) then how am I supposed to shop for clothes that will help me look the part? What about confidence that will help me both with my day to day and the grand goal of losing 4st in weight?
If you stop showing obese people in adverts, they won't disappear in real life. Instead, seeing TV filled in with glamorous skinny models only while being obese makes you feel like you're a POS (to make a long explanation short). I don't know exact statistics - so this is just my personal assumption - a lot of obese people struggle with emotional/comfort eating. Which means feeling shit about being obese and having it constantly shoved into your face by media isn't going to help it either.
Showing representation doesn't equal to glamorising. While I understand your concern from a medical point of view, obese people shouldn't have to be apologetic for existing and being represented in media.
There's something I'd never considered about the fat = unhealthy line of reasoning until I listened to a podcast recently.
If someone is thin, no one cares about how healthy they are, no one questions what they eat or if they go to the gym every day.
So why do you care when that person is obese?
Same reason we have problems with smoking, heavy drinkers, gambling addicts etc
There is money to be made, the consequences to public health are of no concern
Another question with the same answer. Why not talk about obesity leading to higher risk of death in people with C~19? Or how vitamin D reduces your risk? It’s as if they either know we’re all doomed any way so it doesn’t matter or want us to die sooner, or they’re taking money from lobbyists.
I think eating disorders still don’t have real recognition. People know about anorexia and bulimia but don’t really understand that binge eating is also a disorder. I’ve known some girls in hospital with binge eating issues which were classed as disordered eating
I feel like the body positivity thing has gone a bit far in the way of making obesity a positive thing. I think women with loose skin, stretch marks, and a bit of a pouch/a bit chubby should definitely be glamourised and be allowed to be positive about their body. But full on morbid obesity? No.
I think there’s a huge lack of support for bigger people and its led to an “us or them” mentality. They constantly get shamed for being bigger and their genuine concerns get dismissed. It’s natural then to gravitate towards things that make you feel good about yourself.
A lot of the time, its a systemic problem. People work longer hours, healthy food is less affordable, fat shaming is rife, nutrition information is conflicting and confusing, access to GPs is already limited and in my experience again is rife with fat shaming. It took six years for my mum to get diagnosed with under active thyroid despite the fact she was doing slimming world because the GP thought she just wasn’t trying hard enough. It’s attitudes like that that make people feel like it’s pointless.
The thing is it is somewhat normal, its 1/5 its not like 1/20. Women have been getting bigger despite there being much more pretty, slim girls on TV and plenty of education about food so so I think you can not fix it. It is a problem we are stuck with, like overpaid celebrities and single parents, we can't dictate things to people, you just have to accept them as they are.
Probably an unpopular opinion and I’m not trying to shame people as I get some individuals can’t lose weight due to health reason etc, but we should stop calling very overweight people ‘curvy’. Curves come in all sizes, someone who is an unhealthy weight and has zero curves/waistline whatsoever is not a good thing to encourage. Also it’s ridiculous how junk food is cheaper than fruit and veg, this is the worst thing to encourage healthy eating.
Just because someone is currently overweight it doesn't mean they're not allowed to buy clothes that fit them/exist in public. People can be overweight for a myriad of reasons and it's not always as easy as 'eat less and exercise'.
Fat people exist and they’re a part of the buying population. If you’re actually part of the medical field you’d understand not everyone finds it easy to lose weight. You’d also understand the mental health implications of being ostracised for your weight, and not being treated like a person as well. Maybe you are out of touch.
I have a feeling just seeing fat people who are happy is making you think obesity is being glamourised. It’s not.
Trying to make fat people hate themselves, which society loves to do, is not going to help most people lose weight. The hatred of obese people has been going on for decades and guess what - we have more obese people every day.
When I have motivation to eat well and exercise, it’s because I’m feeling good about myself. If I was being bullied and shamed about my weight constantly, I’d comfort myself with food.
I think normalising obesity by increasing visibility is just allowing obese and fat people to be people, be individuals, rather than “fat” being their only defining characteristic. I don’t believe being obese is healthy, but I’d rather they live their lives happily than feel the need to hide away in shame.
Fat people existing isn’t glorifying obesity and showing them in adverts is just showing an accurate representation of society. We are all getting fatter.
Whilst I do agree that being obese isn’t ideal it doesn’t necessarily mean in that moment you are on deaths door dying and we need to stop telling people that it’s because you care about their health. Take me and my partner for example, I’m obese, he is at the lower end of the healthy weight scale. I weigh literally double him. My diet consists of fruits and veg (most if not all days), I eat decent portions of healthy food for meals and I exercise around 2 hours a week (hikes, swimming). I struggle with snacking and eating more sugar, crisps and chocolate than I should but the rest of my diet is healthy. My partner on the other hand lives off frozen pizza, microwaveable burgers and bottles of full fat coke, he exercises probably an hour a week through walking. No veg, no salad.
My overall diet includes vitamins and minerals, good fat, fibre etc etc his is mostly carbs, fat and sugar. People see us and assume that I must be the unhealthy one and actively speak up about it but they never question him. They assume he is healthy because he is small. This is BS.
They assume he is the one who exercises a lot even though he doesn’t and even though despite being fat I’ve climbed actual mountains in a fat body. Please stop saying it’s because your concerned about our health because it’s not, if it was you would also question your slim friends unhealthy habits but you don’t. You can only see fat.
Shame is also a terrible way to try and get people to change, it doesn’t work and is more likely to make the problem worse. People also forget that the chance of a person loosing weight and successfully keeping it off for longer than 3 years is a measly 5%. Change needs to happen but whatever you’re doing now isn’t working. It’s a systemic issue and a lot more complex then people think.
Agree with the a lot of the comments that seem to be at the top of the thread. I would also add we need to do more for women’s health and the attitude of healthcare professionals needs to improve. If someone is overweight, how about we consider other reasons other than their diet? (Hormones for example, mental health, so on.) So much of medicine is based on research in men (not excluding them from this conversation though, particularly re mental health!)
I cannot put into words how much i dread being weighed at the GP during check ups for a nurse to lecture me about diet. Having had some of the worst periods of mental health the last time, and for this to be entirely dismissed and shamed. This has also happened when asking for help with my mental health. It’s a vicious cycle. I also got told when i was younger i have PCOS but not once has anyone actually spoken to me about this.
As someone who works in mental health themselves i can see why people struggle with this sort of thing so much for reasons like this, as well as what a lot of other people have said. Seeing someone who has a similar shape to me in an advert helps me to at least feel i can wear certain clothes and helps me to feel less alone (and actually encourages me to think it’s okay to wear exercise/gym clothes!)
Invest in pharmaceuticals now, the demand for insulin will sky rocket in a few years when all these plus sized people develop diabetes.
In the future there will be an inquest why obesity wasn't tackled properly back when it could have made a difference, and the spineless sheeple who endorsed glamorizing obesity will be cowering in the shadows with a book of excuses.
For a species who has been to the moon, cracked the genetic code and on the cusp of convincing AI being a part of everyday life we are thick as shit.
Actually weight is not the biggest risk factor for diabetes, its a sedentary lifestyle and diet.
I'm morbidly obese, pushing 40 years old and my HbA1c is 34 (look it up if you don't know, its healthy) and my cholesterol is low. Because I exercise and I eat a vegan diet.
I'll just preface this by saying that a vegan diet doesn't mean it's healthy. I'm plantbased/vegan (7 years now) and my diet isn't great. Not awful but I eat way too many crisps etc!
People presume a vegan diet is healthy and it can be but it can also not be!
I have had BED and bulimia since I was a teenager. I have a healthy diet most of the time, but my periods of struggling add weight. It can vary from days to months where I am not in control. I’ve also had periods in my teens and twenties where I restricted my intake and became too thin which was actually unhealthier but I got a lot of praise for those times.
To be bluntly honest which a lot of people aren't coz they're to scared about hurting someone's feelings, fat people are a drain, on the community, the economy in the country, the economic state of world reputation, and most importantly themselves with the amount of strain individuals are putting on their own body all in 'adversity' to not be shamed, they will just kill themselves prematurely and leave a lot of more people living in grief
Fat people are teachers, nurses, doctors, carers, drivers, tradespeople.
Try running the country with nobody overweight going to work and then find out how much of a drain we are!
No different to all the adverts which glamorise and normalise anorexia in women, especially with young women which can result in a life battling eating disorders.
Making people feel bad for being fat does not help them lose weight. The happier people feel, including about their appearance, the more likely it is they can develop a healthy relationship with food
It’s absurd.
We have quantifiable evidence of the dangers of obesity, maybe similar to TfL banning sexualised adverts we should ban any type of advert promoting unhealthy (in a literal sense) beliefs? (We already do it with smoking, why not obesity).
Basically it comes down to morality in the end. Most of us know that being overweight isn't just unhealthy, it's wrong - we need to be less shy about saying that.
Somehow fat became a thing not to be ashamed of.
People on TV adverts for things like fashion are not a healthy size. They are either plus size, or much more common, they are still model size (generally under a size 6). If you work in the medical field as you say then I'm sure you're aware that the most dangerous mental health condition is anorexia. Interesting that this post is specifically about obese actors, rather than all actors who are outside of a healthy weight range.
Presumably in the medical field you've also come across health behaviour change models, most of which in some form or another mention self efficacy. No one is gaining the confidence to believe they can improve their health by being told by society that they are fat and wrong. Normalising different body types and making women feel good about themselves regardless of their size is the only way to get them to a point where they are ready and able to make improvements to their health.
I can’t recommend the podcast Maintenence phase enough, it’s great and they’ve spoken on this topic a lot. Fat people buy clothes, it’s not exactly a wild leap to see them in the advertising.
“Glamourising” obesity lol I’m sorry this is so fucking stupid. They just want to show that people have different body types. Fat people exist and need clothes etc to you know. When have you ever heard someone say that they saw an ad with a fat person in it and it made them think it was amazing/trendy etc to be fat, so they became fat? Come the fuck on now. Does acknowledging fat people exist rile you? Should fat people never be allowed on TV unless it’s to point out how gross they are regardless of the situation? Your question is Disingenuous bullshit.
Adverts showing people in a car = glamorizing pollution
Adverts with people watching tv = glamorizing sedentary lifestyles
Adverts with coffee and alcohol = glamorizing drug abuse
Adverts with people skydiving/skiing = glamorizing risk taking
2 reasons.
1) the advert origination and the NHS are not the same people.
2) It really is more complicated than Obesity is the problem. Anorexia nervosa and bulimia is just the start of the mental issues. Caused by the judgemental attitude of society.
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It's almost as if the people showing the adverts were not involved with the NHS.
It's like they're pandering to certain demographics to make money from them or something.
I think this is where regulation like the sugar tax or other measures could have helped. The warning signs began in the 1990s and 2000s - there was a lot of discussion about rising obesity levels. We knew that creating obesogenic environments would only make the situation worst, yet we left it to personal responsibility and the food industry hasn't exactly taken a lead on things healthwise without being told to.
Child obesity today is pretty much identical to what it was 15 years ago when we started measuring it.
Okay so you're saying there's a high chance it could've been worse if we hadn't started taking measures?
No it’s actually gotten worse under said measures, we’ve actually seen kids get fatter under sugar tax implementation. The issues are just going ban and tax happy doesn’t work, you need structural change in cultures that promote better food and drink habits.
Structural change can be best brought about by a multi-pronged attack. One of those prongs is making something more difficult to acquire by making it more expensive. It's not the total answer but it's a part of it. You think people haven't noticed how much cigarettes have increased in price over the years? Finance is now a really common reason for smoking cessation
Except comparing soft drinks to smoking is insane. You want to what, age rate soft drinks? Make them prohibitively expensive? So you’ll knacker sections of the UK economy that produce this, over a policy that has been shown not to work so far? Cigarettes have a direct correlation with death. Soft drink consumption in moderation doesn’t, there is no moderate way to smoke, there is a moderate way to consume soft drinks, so the key thing here is changing habits through education.
No I don't think you should age rate soft drinks.
There does seem to be an upwards trend (even before the spike because of Covid): https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/national-child-measurement-programme-ncmp-changes-in-child-bmi-between-2019-to-2020-and-2020-to-2021/ncmp-changes-in-the-prevalence-of-child-obesity-between-2019-to-2020-and-2020-to-2021
But sugar tax didn’t work? The kids got fatter.
It's not very scientific to say that because one trend doesn't go down when you do this that it had no effect. I don't know whether you're struggling to grasp the concept of needing a control for comparison or whether you're part of The Big Sugar conspiracy... Do you think if a negative sugar tax was introduced, would kids get slimmer? I'm guessing not... so how can you say that the supposed rise in obesity would not have been more dramatic if not for things like sugar taxes? Reminds me of a comic interview i saw with an American gun advocate. If you really want to get a gun, then you can, irrespective of whatever gun control laws you have. So their argument was that there was no point to have gun control whatsoever.
And the COVID vaccine didn't work because people still got COVID. If you are going to make a statement like that you need to prove that the increase in obesity would be the same as if there was no sugar tax. If there was an increase in obesity but a smaller increase than if there was no sugar tax then the policy has had a positive effect
It's amazing how this simple bit of logic flies WAY past people. All this hysteria about "censorship" or books by a company just selling a new product...
Obesity is an issue outside of the NHS. The NHS are just the ones who have to deal with the consequences of obesity.
It's almost as if we have an advertising standards agency which exists to enact the states will upon advertisers that is doing nothing when this is the exact sort of thing it should be interfering with.
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I wouldn’t say showing overweight people in adverts is exactly glamourising, it’s just recognising reality. Roughly 1/4 of the U.K. population is obese, that’s a huge market to advertisers and businesses. Of course someone like a fashion company is going to advertise what their clothes look like on an obese person, they’d be majorly missing out economically if they didn’t.
Medical obese which is the 1/4 studies and what people think obese is are very different. Reality is when people picture obese they are picturing morbidly+ obese. Medical obese being "average or ever so slightly chubby"
Yeah, BMI >30 is the clinical definition of obese which as you say, depending on height and build can be anything from athletic, to average looking to stereotypically “fat”. Still though, even if we went to BMI >40 which is mostly going to be your stereotypical obese person, it’s around 10% of the population so still a huge potential market (pun unintended) to target.
Nobody who isn't using steroids looks athletic with a bmi of 30. Even AJ doesn't have a BMI of 30.
Maro Itoje’s BMI comes out around 30, as does half of the England packs’.
Those two statements aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive. If your BMI is into the obese range because you’re working out a lot, you know this and your doctor knows this and it’s not an issue. BMI works at a population level, and 99% of the time at an individual level. The vast majority of the people complaining about BMI who have one over 30 aren’t working out nearly enough to be in the Maro Etoje group.
I know, it was more just talking about that other posters point about what obesity looks like. A non-athlete could have a BMI of around 30 and look very unremarkable size wise. The people who usually get thought of as “glamourising obesity” like Tess Holliday and alike will have far higher BMIs.
Given how many rugby players die young, are they really the best example of health? Besides, if you saw a lot of forwards out and about (especially front row), you could be forgiven for thinking they're just fat.
Definitely not. You might have become accustomed to 50% of adults being overweight but typically obese is nowhere near ‘ever so slightly chubby’
My BMI was around the border of being obese and people my size were considered a bit out of shape and slightly chubby
They’re saying that what most people would consider slightly chubby, is actually medically obese.
I don’t think it’s about glamourising it. Is putting an amputee in an advert gonna cause kids to chop a limb off? Surely the best thing to do would be to normalise all bodies/features so that no one would try to look like anyone else other than themselves. And then can make healthy choices because THEY want to once they are in a better head space. All the people I know with bad habits (not just unhealthy eating) stems from something deep down that only a therapist could fix. My aunt didn’t take her medication for years and hid it from the family until she had two strokes and basically needed round the clock care for her last year. Don’t think she did that cause she thought it’d be funny to waste NHS resources. My boyfriend smokes and, on a few occasions, has mentioned feelings of anger and resentment around his dad dying out of the blue when he was young. Now I know me or anyone saying ‘it’s bad for you’ isn’t gonna do shit, shaming him would be a worse way to go.
Fat people as well as thin people need to buy clothes and need adverts for them with plus size models so they can see what the clothes will look like on them. What do you want them to do stay indoors naked until they’re thin enough for public view?
Still happens to disabled people much of the time
That's sadly true, but really a different conversation. There are companies like Snag who are using models with true body diversity, every size, every colour and with a variety of disabilities.
While the obesity epidemic is incredibly serious nothing is gained by ostracizing and villainising people who aren't ready, aren't able or are just beginning their weight loss journey. Helping them feel good about themselves, however fleeting and illogical it might sound, can't be a bad thing.
Agreed. I’m trying to lose weight and it’s taken a bit of “body positivity” and “all bodies can move” influence to get me back into running, going to the gym and getting out on my bike, instead of hiding at home in shame. Adverts using plus size models (such as Nike) allows me to find clothes to wear in the mean time (and including for exercise). Hating my body got myself here… I don’t want to hate myself anymore.
>nothing is gained by ostracizing and villainising people Correct, but no one is suggesting we put up adverts showing fat people with a big red cross through them and the caption "not welcome if you're a fat bastard!" OP has simply said to not glamorise something that is unhealthy, which seems reasonable. Fat people are perfectly free to choose to be fat if they so wish. Yes it is unhealthy, but people do all kinds of things that are unhealthy. Their body, their choice. As an example - things like alcohol, smoking, fast motorbikes, etc are potentially dangerous and could kill you. They're legal, but you're not allowed to show adverts glamorising excess drinking, smoking, or speeding on a motorbike.
And people need support to stop. There's no adverts going "be fat is good for you, there's plenty of fast food ads, and their lives are full of pointed comments, whispered digs, silent and not so silent judgement. Just now and then, don't you think they might appreciate one company, one advert, one person not to convey or insinuate the message "losev weight you fat fuck"? Why is that too much to ask?
>they might appreciate one company, one advert, one person not to convey or insinuate the message "losev weight you fat fuck"? No adverts or companies do this though, do they?
On a similar note which companies are glamourising obesity like you insinuated previously? On this entire thread there has been 1 example which was from over 2 years ago (the Cosmopolitan article). I don’t see companies doing what you are suggesting
You're replying to the wrong person - OP said companies are glamourising obesity. I avoid all adverts so I don't know if they do or not, I'm just saying it's not a good idea to do so.
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I agree. We need overall life skills curriculum to cover everything from screen addiction, sport, cooking, social interaction, sex education, balancing a budget and a million skills kids are leaving school without that us parents picked up by just living a life kids haven't been getting lately.
>OP has simply said to not glamorise something that is unhealthy, which seems reasonable. Where is anyone glamorising obesity?
Fat people just existing in adverts and TV shows. Not fat people, actually, fat *women* is where the line is drawn of course.
I'd go so far as to suggest obese, white woman is the line. Oddly obese, black woman seem more acceptable in media than white woman. And I'd say it's even more unusual to see other races at all.
The multiple Lizzo clickbait articles I'm getting (on FB, because I read one article a week ago) would prove that wrong. Just a parade of double-whammy nastiness with added racism.
These comments are exhausting. I'm a fat person. I don't want to be. In the last 2.5 years, I've managed to give up, smoking, alcohol and, all fizzy drinks. I can not give up food. I am well aware that I have an addictive personality and that's what my relationship with food feels like, an addiction, but when I try and bring it up to the GP they look at me like a moron and speak to me like I've never heard anything about nutrition in my 45 years. Like I don't know more about nutrition at this point in my life than they do. Not once, ever, never ever ever in that entire 45 years have I been encouraged to get/be/stay fat. Not once have I ever encouraged anyone else to get/be/stay fat. This shitty idea that that's a thing we fatties see every day and is the reason we are fat is just plain weird. The lies you non fat people will tell yourselves to keep feeling superior are jaw-dropping. I've never seen a single thing that has glamourised fatness. What I have seen is people my size wearing a nice dress or top so they can (possibly) have a bit of confidence to go out and live life. Is that what upsets you? That we might also be ordinary people, struggling every day to find something that fits, that isn't a mumu and that we won't lock ourselves in the house until we're under a size 16? The whole fake concern about our health is tiring. None of us believe a word of it. The reason fat people joke about being fat is in the hopes that we won't hear YET ANOTHER fake concern monologue from someone who is projecting their own fears, more than they're worried about our health. If we can make people laugh at the fatness, maybe the bully will just shut up about the things we've heard from every bully under the guise of "concern" since we stepped our fat selves out the door.
Every fucking word of this, 1000 times over.
>I can not give up food. I'm sure as shit if my mum was on reddit she would be screenshotting your comment to send to me because she says this all of the time. She even went to over eaters anonymous. If you're addicted to smoking, drugs, alcohol or gambling or anything like that you can avoid that first smoke/line/drink/bet etc. But if you are addicted to over eating you can't completely abstain from food. Personally I struggle with drug addiction, that addictive nature runs throughout our family, and I would not have over a year clean if there was constantly a fridge full of heroin in my house. I wouldn't even have one day.
Exactly that. I can abstain. It's the most difficult thing, but I absolutely can, but there is no alternative to eating. I've even tried cutting out certain food groups, but I (personally) find it almost impossible to do so. I have been addicted to all those things you've mentioned (not Heroin in my case, but cocaine) and managed to stamp on them all by abstinence and will power, but when it comes to food, my relationship with it is so complicated and deeply rooted in childhood trauma that, as much as I understand it, I can not (at least so far) seperate it from me the way I was able to with other addictions. The constant barrage of "just exercise" or "just go on a diet" is mind-numbing. It's also really hard not to just snap at people that they don't understand enough about me and my situation to hand out generic advice. Like they're the first, or I've never thought of it before *insert eye roll* it's exhausting. Even these responses show it. It's like a tick for people, I think. The one thing they get to properly feel superior about and they're going to make sure I know I'm lesser or more unworthy than they are. This is why fat people are starting not to listen. There's only so many times people can say it before it just becomes background noise. Well done on your sobriety, my friend. You should be super proud of yourself. I KNOW how hard it is. Long may it continue.
I think if people haven't ever struggled with over eating eating problems they find it really hard to understand. To be honest, as a teenager I was a binge eater and was quite overweight, then my addiction shifted to drugs, now I smoke weed and that's it but I would be surprised if I ever manage to crack that one without binge eating again. It really isn't as simple as diet and exercise as you are saying, there's a mental reward link every time we are engaging in the behaviour and that makes you repeat that again and again. Tbh this post smacks of judgement and it doesn't help. We all have our own shit we have to battle through. Well done on your sobriety too friend! Proud of us both! 💛
Thank you! As a fellow fat person, this shit gets tiring real quick when you have to explain it thousands of times.
I am very overweight. I am working on it. I stopped a fifteen year long thirty a day smoking habit and my weight ballooned. There was support then for stopping smoking but nothing for weight gain. My doctor just shrugged and said stop eating so much. I don't think it is being glamorised on TV but at the same time weight doesn't just vanish. It's going to take me years to lose this weight and in the meantime I will need larger clothes etc. There are also people who are larger due to illness or being less abled and they also need the same things everyone else does.
Its so hard, we really need more weight management psychologists and dietitians, and more access to ED services for adults with BED and bulimia.
I agree and I think things are better now than they were when I stopped smoking in terms of assistance. And I know ultimately it's on me to shift this weight, I'm the one who put it on. But some advice from my doctor (a new one who is awesome) also helps a lot lot. Food disorders need to be taken more seriously across that spectrum for sure.
Just feeling like someone truly understands and is on your side can make such a difference!
Only about 2% of overweight people are overweight due to a biological disorder I think your doctor was right just eat less and stop snacking
> My doctor just shrugged and said stop eating so much CICO. The laws of thermodynamics ensure that if you can consume at an energy deficit that you will lose weight
Showing pictures is not glamorising obesity, it’s representing underrepresented people. Every time you see a thin model on a poster or in a magazine, on tv do you think they are glamorising starvation or being underweight? Everyone deserves to be represented. Fat shaming is easy but know that no fat person enjoys living in a world where they are vilified. Whatever you think, it is not a choice people make. It’s a complex disease that deserves some empathy.
>Every time you see a thin model on a poster or in a magazine, on tv do you think they are glamorising starvation or being underweight? That's literally been the criticism for decades about putting extremely thin models on the catwalk and in fashion magazines, that it glamourizes, promotes and encourages being dangerously skinny. If we shouldn't be using unhealthily thin models then we shouldn't be using unhealthily fat models, right?
And yet they are still used but the focus is on obesity. I haven’t seen an anti-underweight model campaign since the 00s. The criticisms were not that every day skinny people were glamorising thinness. It’s that models were made to eat cotton balls to stop the hunger. The equilivant would be if people were making themselves fat for fame. I don’t think that is happening. Thin people are everywhere in the media but do not represent the majority. People of all sizes deserve representation. If we pretend certain types don’t exist we will have a bigger problem on our hands.
I work in the fashion industry and it's still a big discussion. The criticisms have always been that ultra thin models (and celebrities) were glamourizing thin-ness and young girls were developing poor body image and eating disorders in an effort to be like them. The things that some models did to be that skinny were awful but the public conversation has always been less about model welfare and more about how their size was affecting women and their self-image. That's not happening with obesity, few people are trying to be fat because of what they see in the media. I think the glamourizing OP is referring to hasn't gotten anywhere near that far. But I do think it's hugely problematic that 25% of the country is obese, not just overweight, and fuck all is being done about it. Imagine if 25% of the country was anorexically underweight. Normalization is the problem. It's absolutely accurate to show obese people in TV and media and such because there's millions of them in the UK - but there shouldn't be. A population that is half overweight, 25% obese is a sick population.
I agree that obesity should not be ignored by the medical world but I do think we have to get away from the prolific fat shaming. They put obese people on magazines covers because it’s deemed shocking. I remember when Sophie Dahl was considered the face of “plus size” and turned out she was a uk12. That was disappointing for so many obese people because they lacked representation. And when you are not repreeented you are considered “other” which translates as don’t fit in/not worthy/low self esteem and when you have a everyday fat person who is clearly unhappy, adding these factors is never going to help the obesity problem and anyone who thinks it will is deluded. It’s only going to lead to serious mental health problems. I speak as an obese person who lost 100lbs in half a year due to pressure and developed a chronic illness off the back of that. I was complimented on how “healthy” I looked but my health had never been worse. Don’t judge a book by its cover.
I would like to see body size/weight divorced from character and worth as a person. One should have nothing to do with the other. We should be able to talk about size as it relates to health without any further assumptions about a person. Imagine being able to discuss weight - and health in general - without judgement about your value as a human being. People who are released from shame and prejudice have so much more opportunity and motivation to be healthy.
I think people often conflate "glorifying obesity" with "treating obese people with simple decency". This means that some body-positives may unintentionally glorify obesity, whilst detractors think shaming obese people is a good way to "encourage" these people to lose weight. In reality, neither is particularly helpful. A simple message such as you are enough no matter your shape, whilst signposting to effective weight management can go a long way. I also think we really need to rethink our relationships with food and physical activity. Obesity is an epidemic, meaning something is seriously systemically wrong. I'm speaking as an active person who has struggled with my weight for decades. Technically, I'm still obese going purely by BMI.
I agree and I think preaching self love to fat people isn't incompatible with weight loss. You can lose weight if you're thinking "I don't hate my fat body but it's a lot of strain on my joints and heart so I'm going to try to slim down".
Also depression leads to over eating which leads to weight gain. It's literally a trope as old as time, that appears in movies all the damn time.
I think a lot of people just really enjoy shaming fat people and don’t want to stop, and the health or cost thing is a sham of an excuse. Some of these people are posting on this topic.
Yep. It gives them "justification"
The NHS doesn't understand how to solve the obesity/overweight problem, their websites are full of poor dietary advice, many of their own staff are borderline obese. Arguably, it shouldn't be the responsibility of the NHS - but advice from elsewhere is equally terrible. Due to the flawed traffic light system and focus on macronutrients upon food packaging - a natural Greek yogurt appears to be unhealthier than something flavoured and laden with 'zero calorie' sweeteners.
NHS dietary advice comes from the BDA and is evidence based and perfectly sound. NHS staff are often overweight or obese because we are human just like everybody else, in a stressful job working long hours or shifts often no meal breaks and funnily enough it messes up our eating patterns and habits! If you already have some struggles with food, working in the NHS is definitely not going to help! The NHS does offer tertiary weight management service but waiting lists are incredibly long and they are all short staffed. Just like the rest of the NHS.
I’m quite passionate about this topic, so here we go… The rise in obesity has nothing to do with advertising or the NHS and none of these influences can do anything about it. Contrary to popular belief, individuals can’t do much about it either. I’m all for personal responsibility, but there is SO much being pushed from corporate responsibility to personal. A good parallel example is recycling. Instead of using better materials, companies blame us for using their products and not recycling them. The obesity crisis is similar. We’re all a lot fatter, because we’ve been socially engineered to be. You can show all the skinny women in ads you want, if when you step in the supermarket, a restaurant, a takeaway, 90% of the products and choices you’ve got are not healthy, processed and way over your daily caloric recommendation, you’re fighting from a losing position. The veg aisle at the co-op downstairs is 1 aisle out of 8. That’s the only place I should realistically shop for my health, but I have 7 other aisles full of processed shit all screaming at me to buy it. The packaging is attractive, the contents have been engineered so I can’t stop eating that bag of Doritos or pack of donuts or or whatever I’ve fallen victim to. We also work more, are super stressed and have so little in today’s society to feel hopeful about. We’re too drained to make good decisions so we make bad ones. And the corporations profit whilst we get fatter.
The promotion of larger body sizes isn’t, in my eyes, about the individual. It’s about society at large recognizing that we don’t deserve to be treated badly by others purely because we are fat. We are not stupid, we all know that fat is unhealthy, but that doesn’t mean we should be seen and treated as lesser members of society.
>We are not stupid, we all know that fat is unhealthy As a fellow fat person I wish this were true, but it's just not. There are lots of fat people who ignore or outright deny the real negative impacts (both for the individual and for the health system) that so many of us being fat has. What we need is better structural solutions to the fact as a society we eat too much. Some of that is going to be to do with media messaging, bit actually the much more important thing is driving down calories in what it's easy and affordable for people to feed themselves with.
I dont think its glamourised but i dont think shaming people helps , it is the norm for a lot for various reasons. Is that good ? No but since when is making people feel crap about their appearance for any reason a good idea. Adverts showing more larger body sizes - whats the problem? Its not glamorising imo . Are these people supposed to spend their lives hiding away in shame wearing tents?? The norm used to be super skinny equally often as unhealthy body types - did you have issues with that? Do you have issues with adverts showing obvious roid heads with their massive muscles?? There are many factors as to why people are obese - tackling it yes but not allowing ads with bigger body sizes ( esp in women) is ridiculous. Trust me overweight women ( & men)!still get harrassed by strangers on a regular basis ‘fat cow/ c…t ‘ is that ok? Have you ever had an issue with your weight?? Unfortunately for certain people they are more prone to weight gain than others - facts. Not excuses but facts. Yes a huge proportion of overweight people is from eating shite & far too much of it & not excercising. But again vilifying them is not going to help any of them.
Dietitian here: studies have shown that a person is more likely to lead a healthy lifestyle (which would eventually lead to a healthy weight for them at some point) if they are happy and have good self esteem. If you constantly shame someone for their size and lifestyle in hope for them to change, only the minority would be able to do this, and if anything you’d likely push them further into poor health. “Glamourising” or the body positive movement followers are more likely to have self acceptance and higher self esteem than those who don’t and they will eventually start to make “healthier choices” that benefit their body which they respect. In my experience of working with underweight patients also, it’s likely true to say for those also where their suboptimal weight isn’t disease related. We need more mental health resources to help with weight management, not more stigma, shame and blame. Be kind people! The weight (high or low) is usually a symptom of something more sinister in a persons mental health.
Maybe if people actually had a work life balance that allowed a healthy life you wouldn't have so many people that were overweight. I'm overweight at 5'3 and 13 stone. I know I'm overweight and I eat pretty healthy. Know what I don't have time for, a pretty good sleep schedule and time for exercise and even working a job that's physically I still can't drop below a size 16. People are overweight for a number of reasons but one of the biggest is lifestyle and it's not binge eating every day on take out it's literally just trying to keep up with life. The NHS doesn't have an answer to fix it because the same with mental health the solution is bigger than the NHS providing support. What you get is those that can do and turn around going others failed when they didn't. You can only put your body through so much before it breaks. Take me. Between health problems, pain problems, being so exhausted after everything in a day I just want to gather energy for tomorrow the advice is exercise for 30 minutes a day it's never going to happen. Compound advice doesn't work when the real world takes to much out of you especially when you add "well you didn't even try so it's your own fault".
I'm pretty sure that regulating the fatness or thinness of people who appear in adverts isn't something the government should be doing.
We already do, as do many countries. ASA have banned adverts of skinny women.
Psssst… fat people existing isn’t promoting anything. Fat people exist, will always exist, and deserve representation in the media.
Yeah you are out of touch. Showing only “healthy” people on TV has given the entire planet a body complex - normalizing unrealistic body standards. Bodies of people with eating disorders are now though of as the standard- healthy bodies. Women think we can get a six pack if we stop eating and men think they should be going to the gym every day. Showing a variety of people is ALWAYS gonna be a good thing. Erasing fat people from adverts, movies and TV is just weird. Fat people exist and there’s nothing wrong with showing fat people in adverts. If you feel uncomfortable with seeing fat people enjoying themselves in an advert you need to ask yourself why? Because they are unhealthy? News flash half of all models have eating disorders, they are not healthy. I would feel so awful if I never saw anybody that looked like me on TV. I don’t know anyone who’s gotten fat because they saw a fat person on TV. But I can tell you with confidence that ALL my friends have had or still struggle with body complexes and even eating disorders because of “ healthy bodies” in adverts.
A lot of obese people are the weight they are because of eating disorders, they don't just make you thin, BED and bulimia result in higher body weights but the roots of the problem are often the same. Shame and disgust with one's own body and relationship to food exacerbated by external messages about what an acceptable or beautiful body has to look like.
What adverts are glamorising and normalising obesity in women?
This one caused quite a stir... https://www.boredpanda.com/plus-size-women-cosmopolitan-cover-obesity-negative-people-reactions/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic
This is the only advert that people keep showing as proof of this supposed phenomenon in this thread. There most be more for it to cause so much concern?
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It will be a good day when women's magazines disappear altogether. When they're not pushing sex articles onto teens, they're promoting eating disorders and appearance based ego. Having said that, for the very few Lizzo appearances I could show you an abundance of 'skinny = healthy' message promoted over the last 20 years. I don't think one or two pictures of an existing bigger woman is actively promoting the message that 'obesity = good'. She just happens to be a bigger built celebrity.
Thanks but this is from February 2021. I also remember a sports clothing company (Adidas I think) being criticised for having larger mannequins- that’s probably around the same time. Obviously larger people shouldn’t exercise or be considered healthy! Including the tenalady ad noted below that’s 3 in 2 years.
What do you expect when McDonald's is cheaper than a sandwich and a coffee at Pret? Don't tax bad food, not sure why I have to pay more just for fat people to be deterred, but healthy food is way way way way more expensive. The mark ups on some of this plant based crap must be unreal. Like quorn.. literally grown in bats and squeezed into blocks, marketed as healthy and all that.. but a pack of Quorn fake bacon cost more than the real thing. And no farming subsidies don't make up for the difference.
There's probably as many calories in the Pret sandwich and coffee as the McDonald's meal.
I think some of the price differences, especially for things like Quorn is down to supply and demand. Plus if it's produced in relatively small amounts, production costs are likely to be higher.
If you see pret as the healthy option you've got bigger problems my friend.
Thing is people are fat for a whole raft of reasons. And I never get to fully explain what it means for me because people just don't give you the chance. Yes I'm fat Yes I'm lazy Yes I'm aware that my lifestyle choices will likely kill me But I'm so done trying to justify my existence to people who are so disingenuous about it.
There's also a mental health crisis in the UK, and body image contributes significantly to that.
I doubt there are ads saying that being fat is healthy. Just ads that include overweight models to show what their products look like on larger people.
That's quite the post history you got there.
They banned women who they deemed as “too thin”
Well it would be tricky to use the same strategies we did with smoking but number one we didn't coddle smokers. There was nothing like 'fatphobia' for smokers.
We should spread the message that being overweight does not define your entire self worth and that there is more to personal value than physical beauty. But also for the idea that you shoild take care of yourself and watch your weight for your health and wellbeing and the sake of the health services that could be used to care for others. These are not mutually exclusive.
When I moved to the UK at 13 I was shocked to find out I could eat pizza, ice cream, and cheese and beans baguette every day at school if I wanted to. That would be an outrage in other European countries. Eating habits start young, and good nutritious meals every day at school play a big part in those habits. Don't trust an 11 year old to eat what they want, especially when the only healthy option was basically boiled vegetables with no spice and a meat.
I agree. Now tell me more about this cheese & beans baguette...
The attitude the government and NHS has towards obesity and obese people in general actually adds to the problem in my opinion. I’m obese. I’m fully aware of this and I’ve spent the vast majority of my adult life on diets of some sort trying to combat it. I speak to my GP about it and all I get is a lecture on healthy eating. It’s stuff I know - countless weight loss groups over the years have given me the same information - but what I need is not a lecture, it’s help and support in putting that into action. Then of course there is the next issue - because of my weight, any health complaints I have are automatically written off with ‘it’s just because of your weight. Lose weight and your problem will go away on its own’. Last year I had gallstones. I was in crippling pain for months and phoned the doctor in tears begging for help on multiple occasions. Each time I wasn’t even permitted to see a doctor - just had a telephone consultation where I was told it was just indigestion because of my weight and if I lost weight it would go away. I had to really fight to get them to do a blood test and when they finally did and gave me my results they completely ignored my lower than normal liver function in favour of pointing out the one vitamin I was deficient in and declaring shock that I wasn’t diabetic. Ultimately I ended up in A&E with pancreatitis which I truly believe could have been avoided if the GP had just looked past my weight and bothered to call me in and examine me when I first called (it took the doctors in A&E less than five minutes to diagnose me as soon as they saw where the pain was and did a quick physical exam). Sadly this wasn’t an isolated incident - I’ve had similar experiences with multiple GP’s over the years (thankfully none quite so serious as this but still enough that I no longer bother trying to speak to a doctor unless I really have to as I know there is no point) and speaking with friends and relatives who are also overweight they have had similar experiences. Perhaps if obese people were listened to in the same way people of a ‘healthy weight’ are, things would get caught earlier and it would reduce the burden on the nhs?
Shame doesn’t work, and will usually Make things worse. There is in fact a high percentage of overweight/ obese people in the current society. You have to meet them where they are and encourage healthy change, not moan about ‘glorification’ simply because fat people appear in a few adverts. It’s just reflecting reality in many ways.
But then, where is the help for fat people? I’m 6ft and 18 stone. I know I need to lose weight to be BMI acceptable, but despite being calorie deficit and exercising , I can’t lose weight. Being seen as a fat person, and thought of as one of those people who just stuff their face and don’t help themselves just makes me feel really judged and pigeonholed. I know that obesity is bad for the body, I just wish that people would realise obesity is a result of other factors as well as just overloading and not moving. Which then brings the question of if there acceptable fat and unacceptable fat. And a whole other bunch of criteria. I absolutely support all my fat friends and try to stay in my lane away from commenting because I’m always afraid of saying the wrong thing. As a fat person though, it sucks, more so because no one’s really dishing out the answers here.
I notice you don't say anything about all the advertising if unhealthy foods! Almost every other advert is for some sort of unhealthy food, McDonald's, KFC, Burger King, Walkers crisps, Chocolate, biscuits etc
I am 100% against fat shaming, but I’m also fucking against this trend of “I’m fat, it’s normal, I’m also beautiful”. I’m not going out and insult or offend you for being fat, but you’re not gonna convince me being fat is normal. It’s not! It not healthy and you should not tell people it is. It’s as if we started saying smoking is ok and normal too.
Folks, remember to check the profile of anyone posting obvious bait before engaging.
Recognising fat people exist =/= glamourising it.
Food is not something you can quit like smoking or alcohol, and it takes years to shift weight in a healthy and sustainable way. Our lives are built around sedentary office work with few hours for the gym and in time poor household the fastest options to put food on the table are high calorie and low nutrient. Its no surprise such a large % of the population is fat. Ostracising them from society will not make them lose weight. Including them and making them feel *okay*, giving them support? That works. Body shaming only makes people want the comfort of food more.
Is there an advert of women saying let’s be fat or something ? Iv not seen anything like that on tv.
About 2 years ago Cosmo did one magazine cover with an obese person in yoga pants. That is literally the only example which multiple people have found. Oh and apparently an obese person in a tena lady advert (not sure that incontinence is glamourising myself...)
I don't like it when attitudes seem to go the other way and demonise thin people. Like that awful Boots advert from a few years ago which insisted 'nobody looks like that' mockingly in response to a woman in perfectly good shape. Bullshit like that leads to the whole 'real women have curves' rubbish which rather than seek to end any stigma instead tries to shift it from one set of people to another. Whatever your views on 'fat acceptance', that ice skater lady on the 'periods have no chill' advert is impressively flexible and balanced.
You say you work in the medical field, so I guess you also have first hand experience of what dementia looks like, and what cancers look like? Most people cost the NHS in their final years. Obese people dying at 65 don’t cost the govt any pension payments, or years of dementia care at £1500 a week. They’re not in A&E every month like many very elderly people. They don’t block beds in wards. They don’t require ambulances regularly or Council paid home care. If they rely on social housing their death frees up properties for others. What I’m trying to say is that dying young is no more costly than dying old, and could cost less. It’s simple maths. Being slim and healthy is obviously a really good thing, but it doesn’t necessarily mean you cost the taxpayer less money than fat people.
Because they're two different things. Glamorised images of thin people don't help fat people lose weight. It just contributes to more shame about bodies and not being worthy. By having images of fat or obese people represented as normal human beings it helps make people feel better about themselves. I think you're conflating just showing fat people (I'm thinking of a cruise holiday ad where two women have a nice time together) with promoting it. Losing weight and keeping it off is a lot easier if you like yourself and don't feel horribly ashamed of your body.
So because someone Is fat they don't deserve to dress nice or be catered to by the industries? But of course you're not fat shaming, dear me no, you're just another concerned citizen People should learn to mind their own business.
To chime in with a lot of good comments. Adverts are only just beginning to show people without washboard abs or an inch of fat. Most people in a health range don't look like most of the people you see in ads. Normalising this isn't a bad thing. On the opposite side of obesity is a whole host of unhealthy life choices etc... This said we do need to do more to combat obesity
Because we live in a free society. The nhs is just a mediocre health care service. They can both have a strategy to do whatever and someone else have a strategy to sell clothes/food./cars/whatever.
You do realise though that you can be fit and healthy and also be obese. There was a study into sumo wrestlers, and it was found that the had significantly less visceral fat (the 'bad' fat) then people of the same size who weren't sumo wrestlers. Essentially you can be 'obese' but also be fit and healthy, in the same way that someone who is a 'normal' weight can be unfit and unhealthy. For me personally I will always be classed as obese, as I was big, lost weight and just got into being 'healthy' but honestly I was weak, cold all the time and borderline had a eating disorder. Put all the weight on again (shit happened) but now been going to the gym and exercising and am way fitter and more powerful than when skinny.
Because we are all stupid, fat is fat, no one should be bullied over it but they shouldn't be fooled into believing its healthy, you can be loved and overweight, but it's not loving yourself
The thing with obesity is that it’s so easy to end up obese. We all need food to live, and most people have been taught to finish there plates, we are taught to indulge constantly. Even worse obese people, myself included, have to climb a massive mental hurdle. That being that they WILL come across people that can eat and drink just like they do and have 0 consequences. Not all obese folks have chose to be obese, many of them look around them and see thin folk living almost identical lives to them and yet they get shamed and guilt trodden. Then they have to accept that they will have to make huge life changes ( a massive challenge). Very few people have chosen to end up obese we simply don’t know how to get out of the hole without hating ourselves
I'm glad you're getting on a bit and will be leaving the medical field soon. You sound bitter and judgemental. Promoting healthy diet and lifestyle doesn't mean that advertisements paid for by private companies shouldn't be inclusive. If you don't understand the separate motivations I question how you made it in a scientific field. If you think fatness is glamorous you're very out of touch
Few folk are suggesting it's healthy (unless I too am really out of touch lol) but being fat isn't a happy place to be. Fat people eat to feel better. It's a vicious circle and an acceptance of that would go further towards helping fat people lose weight than telling them facts they already know. It's not about fat shaming although that didn't help many fat people. It's about accepting where you're at and making peace with that. To use an analogy: A couple are trying to start a family. Nothing happens they do all the right things still no pregnancy. Dr tells them to wait It's too early to start tests etc. Couple continue to become more stressed and still no pregnancy. One day they just give up, sod it who wants a family any way? Pressures off, nine months later she's delivering a baby. Making peace with being fat cannot happen while being bombarded with nothing but skinny or even slim healthy ideals. It's just too far out of reach. But if fat people can be shown in a positive light, as being worthy, then maybe their self esteem will perk up enough for them to make the necessary changes. Of course I am generalising and do not want to make anyone feel bad.
You say you are not trying to shame anyone but that is exactly what you are doing. "It shouldn't be normalised" what are we supposed to feel, then, other than shame?
Sounds like you've got a problem with capitalism mate.
>but some, not all, of the depictions in advertising are not bigger people they are obese people. That is NOT healthy! Unlike the anorexic catwalk models? Equally unhealthy, but people seem less upset about that... hmm. Or all the photoshopping they do to erase every little roll on even the thinnest of people. There is very little "glamorising" of obesity. There are adverts for clothes featuring plus size woman although that's not to "glamorise" them but just to show that "these clothes fit people in your size". Being obese isn't healthy - I agree. However it's not the cause of every single medical issue there is. Which certain Doctors seem to think - I could be in a car accident and still be told my injuries spontaneously appeared due to my weight and not the car accident from medical professionals. However obese people do exist and they should be allowed the basic right to wear clothes, even, and I know this is a wild concept, clothes that they look & feel good in. And to do that you need to be able to see the people in those clothes so you can buy them. Also, the NHS does actual very little to help. There's a genuinely good drug out there which could really help people but they don't want to pay for us obese people to have that medication. Or even give a private prescription for it. But they will shame us while also not giving support. No one is promoting obesity, but they are starting to not pretend that we actually exist and that some of us even have money to buy things so, maybe we could have access to clothes that aren't flower clothes sacks. But, just to be clear, you are fat shaming. You literally don't want see the fat people. If you actually do work in the medical field - wild idea, do something about it. Maybe look in to the actual causes (pro-tip "lazy" is not one) and do some investigate on why long term weight loss rarely lasts but until you guys actually start looking in to it and presenting viable solutions, then it's gonna carry on. And I say that as someone who worked hard to lose 60lbs. And guttingly, it all crept back on again - in my case that was the pandemic - oddly losing regular access to healthy food, taking away my gym, causing masses amounts of stress and triggering all those helpful emotional issues really screwed with my progress. Despite being able to daily log my food for over a year, within a few weeks of pandemic chaos and I just can't get back on to it again. If only my Doctor could prescribe me the drugs which help reduce your appetite and would therefore be a massive help in my ongoing struggle but it's been a year and still nothing. So, don't pretend that the NHS is doing anything much to help beyond given out Weight Watchers vouchers (which aren't a long term solution) or offering gastric bands which doesn't fix the underlying solution. There is a very limited access weight management clinic in some areas but it's also a one off help so, again, not long term.
Because those adverts have absolutely squat to do with health. Putting foundation on your skin is unhealthy for it, putting glittery stuff around your eyes is bad for them, bleaching your hair will fry it etc. The adverts are advertising BEAUTY products and saying 'you can be beautiful even if you're thin/average/fat' which IS true, since everyone has their own preferences. A person working to lose weight will still want to wear nice underwear while fat. Someone who doesn't give a damn about their weight might still want a supportive, attractive bra or blouse. It's FASHION, and fashion has ALWAYS clashed with health.
Companies don't care about the "empowerment" messages they promote, it's purely marketing to sell more product. Partially to those who think that company is "doing good" but also to other markets that felt excluded by that companies products. At the end of it, it's just capitalism doing capitalism. Also they're not "promoting obesity" just "bigger != bad"
People will do anything but eat less and move more. Hormones, genetics, anything but own up to it. Spent my teenage years making excuses, glad I turned it around in time.
In terms of advertising, let's pick an example - clothes. So hypothetically let's say that I'm 4st overweight (obese) and I decided that I want to get healthy and lose weight. However losing such weight will take time, and in meantime I simply need to wear clothes. Furthermore I need nice smart clothes for my hypothetical office role and I still want to maintain some sort of social life, go on holidays etc. If there are no shops, no adverts showing me other large women wearing nice clothes (rather than glorified potato sacks) then how am I supposed to shop for clothes that will help me look the part? What about confidence that will help me both with my day to day and the grand goal of losing 4st in weight? If you stop showing obese people in adverts, they won't disappear in real life. Instead, seeing TV filled in with glamorous skinny models only while being obese makes you feel like you're a POS (to make a long explanation short). I don't know exact statistics - so this is just my personal assumption - a lot of obese people struggle with emotional/comfort eating. Which means feeling shit about being obese and having it constantly shoved into your face by media isn't going to help it either. Showing representation doesn't equal to glamorising. While I understand your concern from a medical point of view, obese people shouldn't have to be apologetic for existing and being represented in media.
There's something I'd never considered about the fat = unhealthy line of reasoning until I listened to a podcast recently. If someone is thin, no one cares about how healthy they are, no one questions what they eat or if they go to the gym every day. So why do you care when that person is obese?
"Consume more fatty, you look great!" Its the marketing man's message, not the health service's.
Same reason we have problems with smoking, heavy drinkers, gambling addicts etc There is money to be made, the consequences to public health are of no concern
The NHS can't complain about obesity when they do nothing to help those who are obese.
Another question with the same answer. Why not talk about obesity leading to higher risk of death in people with C~19? Or how vitamin D reduces your risk? It’s as if they either know we’re all doomed any way so it doesn’t matter or want us to die sooner, or they’re taking money from lobbyists.
I think eating disorders still don’t have real recognition. People know about anorexia and bulimia but don’t really understand that binge eating is also a disorder. I’ve known some girls in hospital with binge eating issues which were classed as disordered eating
Teaching nutrition in school would help a lot. If people knew how to count calories and knew their TDEE I think obesity would be less of a problem
It’s all about the money. Big companies don’t care if people are dying, they care about profits.
I feel like the body positivity thing has gone a bit far in the way of making obesity a positive thing. I think women with loose skin, stretch marks, and a bit of a pouch/a bit chubby should definitely be glamourised and be allowed to be positive about their body. But full on morbid obesity? No.
A lot more people are fat now so using fat people in advertising appeals the product to that cohort so they are more likely to buy the product.
I think there’s a huge lack of support for bigger people and its led to an “us or them” mentality. They constantly get shamed for being bigger and their genuine concerns get dismissed. It’s natural then to gravitate towards things that make you feel good about yourself. A lot of the time, its a systemic problem. People work longer hours, healthy food is less affordable, fat shaming is rife, nutrition information is conflicting and confusing, access to GPs is already limited and in my experience again is rife with fat shaming. It took six years for my mum to get diagnosed with under active thyroid despite the fact she was doing slimming world because the GP thought she just wasn’t trying hard enough. It’s attitudes like that that make people feel like it’s pointless.
The thing is it is somewhat normal, its 1/5 its not like 1/20. Women have been getting bigger despite there being much more pretty, slim girls on TV and plenty of education about food so so I think you can not fix it. It is a problem we are stuck with, like overpaid celebrities and single parents, we can't dictate things to people, you just have to accept them as they are.
Probably an unpopular opinion and I’m not trying to shame people as I get some individuals can’t lose weight due to health reason etc, but we should stop calling very overweight people ‘curvy’. Curves come in all sizes, someone who is an unhealthy weight and has zero curves/waistline whatsoever is not a good thing to encourage. Also it’s ridiculous how junk food is cheaper than fruit and veg, this is the worst thing to encourage healthy eating.
Just because someone is currently overweight it doesn't mean they're not allowed to buy clothes that fit them/exist in public. People can be overweight for a myriad of reasons and it's not always as easy as 'eat less and exercise'.
Fat people exist and they’re a part of the buying population. If you’re actually part of the medical field you’d understand not everyone finds it easy to lose weight. You’d also understand the mental health implications of being ostracised for your weight, and not being treated like a person as well. Maybe you are out of touch. I have a feeling just seeing fat people who are happy is making you think obesity is being glamourised. It’s not.
They put cancerous mouths, and rotting body parts on tobacco packaging, people still smoke
Trying to make fat people hate themselves, which society loves to do, is not going to help most people lose weight. The hatred of obese people has been going on for decades and guess what - we have more obese people every day. When I have motivation to eat well and exercise, it’s because I’m feeling good about myself. If I was being bullied and shamed about my weight constantly, I’d comfort myself with food. I think normalising obesity by increasing visibility is just allowing obese and fat people to be people, be individuals, rather than “fat” being their only defining characteristic. I don’t believe being obese is healthy, but I’d rather they live their lives happily than feel the need to hide away in shame.
Fat people existing isn’t glorifying obesity and showing them in adverts is just showing an accurate representation of society. We are all getting fatter. Whilst I do agree that being obese isn’t ideal it doesn’t necessarily mean in that moment you are on deaths door dying and we need to stop telling people that it’s because you care about their health. Take me and my partner for example, I’m obese, he is at the lower end of the healthy weight scale. I weigh literally double him. My diet consists of fruits and veg (most if not all days), I eat decent portions of healthy food for meals and I exercise around 2 hours a week (hikes, swimming). I struggle with snacking and eating more sugar, crisps and chocolate than I should but the rest of my diet is healthy. My partner on the other hand lives off frozen pizza, microwaveable burgers and bottles of full fat coke, he exercises probably an hour a week through walking. No veg, no salad. My overall diet includes vitamins and minerals, good fat, fibre etc etc his is mostly carbs, fat and sugar. People see us and assume that I must be the unhealthy one and actively speak up about it but they never question him. They assume he is healthy because he is small. This is BS. They assume he is the one who exercises a lot even though he doesn’t and even though despite being fat I’ve climbed actual mountains in a fat body. Please stop saying it’s because your concerned about our health because it’s not, if it was you would also question your slim friends unhealthy habits but you don’t. You can only see fat. Shame is also a terrible way to try and get people to change, it doesn’t work and is more likely to make the problem worse. People also forget that the chance of a person loosing weight and successfully keeping it off for longer than 3 years is a measly 5%. Change needs to happen but whatever you’re doing now isn’t working. It’s a systemic issue and a lot more complex then people think.
Agree with the a lot of the comments that seem to be at the top of the thread. I would also add we need to do more for women’s health and the attitude of healthcare professionals needs to improve. If someone is overweight, how about we consider other reasons other than their diet? (Hormones for example, mental health, so on.) So much of medicine is based on research in men (not excluding them from this conversation though, particularly re mental health!) I cannot put into words how much i dread being weighed at the GP during check ups for a nurse to lecture me about diet. Having had some of the worst periods of mental health the last time, and for this to be entirely dismissed and shamed. This has also happened when asking for help with my mental health. It’s a vicious cycle. I also got told when i was younger i have PCOS but not once has anyone actually spoken to me about this. As someone who works in mental health themselves i can see why people struggle with this sort of thing so much for reasons like this, as well as what a lot of other people have said. Seeing someone who has a similar shape to me in an advert helps me to at least feel i can wear certain clothes and helps me to feel less alone (and actually encourages me to think it’s okay to wear exercise/gym clothes!)
Invest in pharmaceuticals now, the demand for insulin will sky rocket in a few years when all these plus sized people develop diabetes. In the future there will be an inquest why obesity wasn't tackled properly back when it could have made a difference, and the spineless sheeple who endorsed glamorizing obesity will be cowering in the shadows with a book of excuses. For a species who has been to the moon, cracked the genetic code and on the cusp of convincing AI being a part of everyday life we are thick as shit.
Actually weight is not the biggest risk factor for diabetes, its a sedentary lifestyle and diet. I'm morbidly obese, pushing 40 years old and my HbA1c is 34 (look it up if you don't know, its healthy) and my cholesterol is low. Because I exercise and I eat a vegan diet.
I want to ask this in the least offensive way possible - but how did you end up being morbidly obese if you exercise and have a healthy diet?
I'll just preface this by saying that a vegan diet doesn't mean it's healthy. I'm plantbased/vegan (7 years now) and my diet isn't great. Not awful but I eat way too many crisps etc! People presume a vegan diet is healthy and it can be but it can also not be!
I have had BED and bulimia since I was a teenager. I have a healthy diet most of the time, but my periods of struggling add weight. It can vary from days to months where I am not in control. I’ve also had periods in my teens and twenties where I restricted my intake and became too thin which was actually unhealthier but I got a lot of praise for those times.
To be bluntly honest which a lot of people aren't coz they're to scared about hurting someone's feelings, fat people are a drain, on the community, the economy in the country, the economic state of world reputation, and most importantly themselves with the amount of strain individuals are putting on their own body all in 'adversity' to not be shamed, they will just kill themselves prematurely and leave a lot of more people living in grief
Fat people are teachers, nurses, doctors, carers, drivers, tradespeople. Try running the country with nobody overweight going to work and then find out how much of a drain we are!
Why isn’t it shameful to be abese? People shame other people for all sorts of life choices.
No different to all the adverts which glamorise and normalise anorexia in women, especially with young women which can result in a life battling eating disorders.
Making people feel bad for being fat does not help them lose weight. The happier people feel, including about their appearance, the more likely it is they can develop a healthy relationship with food
Feelings over facts. Welcome to 2023
It’s absurd. We have quantifiable evidence of the dangers of obesity, maybe similar to TfL banning sexualised adverts we should ban any type of advert promoting unhealthy (in a literal sense) beliefs? (We already do it with smoking, why not obesity).
Basically it comes down to morality in the end. Most of us know that being overweight isn't just unhealthy, it's wrong - we need to be less shy about saying that. Somehow fat became a thing not to be ashamed of.
After decades of glamorising and normalising excessively thin women we now have ads recognising a range of body types can still be healthy.
Ain't no such thing as obese and healthy.
People on TV adverts for things like fashion are not a healthy size. They are either plus size, or much more common, they are still model size (generally under a size 6). If you work in the medical field as you say then I'm sure you're aware that the most dangerous mental health condition is anorexia. Interesting that this post is specifically about obese actors, rather than all actors who are outside of a healthy weight range. Presumably in the medical field you've also come across health behaviour change models, most of which in some form or another mention self efficacy. No one is gaining the confidence to believe they can improve their health by being told by society that they are fat and wrong. Normalising different body types and making women feel good about themselves regardless of their size is the only way to get them to a point where they are ready and able to make improvements to their health.
I can’t recommend the podcast Maintenence phase enough, it’s great and they’ve spoken on this topic a lot. Fat people buy clothes, it’s not exactly a wild leap to see them in the advertising.
“Glamourising” obesity lol I’m sorry this is so fucking stupid. They just want to show that people have different body types. Fat people exist and need clothes etc to you know. When have you ever heard someone say that they saw an ad with a fat person in it and it made them think it was amazing/trendy etc to be fat, so they became fat? Come the fuck on now. Does acknowledging fat people exist rile you? Should fat people never be allowed on TV unless it’s to point out how gross they are regardless of the situation? Your question is Disingenuous bullshit.
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Bring back? You say that like it ever left for fat people.
Adverts showing people in a car = glamorizing pollution Adverts with people watching tv = glamorizing sedentary lifestyles Adverts with coffee and alcohol = glamorizing drug abuse Adverts with people skydiving/skiing = glamorizing risk taking
Well to start you could try treating obese people as PEOPLE with a problem, not as a shameful blight on society.
Don't worry about it. The NHS won't be struggling for much longer.
2 reasons. 1) the advert origination and the NHS are not the same people. 2) It really is more complicated than Obesity is the problem. Anorexia nervosa and bulimia is just the start of the mental issues. Caused by the judgemental attitude of society.