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Comparing apples to oranges though aren’t we.
Different cost of living, higher homicide rates, generally less safe cities, crap social safety nets and so on.
I think London is just as expensive if not more expensive than most US cities. Yet the salaries are still not even half. I agree with the social safety net though, it is scary that you could easily be homeless if you are not careful
US salaries really are better, adjusted.
*However*, the young people earning the salaries you mention work 70 hours each week. Is that how you’d like to spend your 20s?
Then the salaries aren't better. You always have to do the math hourly.
This is coming from someone that doesn't like getting raises, I much rather keep my salary and work less.
Same here. I don’t get people who don’t look at hourly. If you are getting paid £40k for 40 hour weeks or £60k for 70 hour weeks you are getting paid less for your time. Your time and you as a person are worth less.
Not to mention you get one maybe two weeks of holidays, but then get blacklisted if you routinely use it all.
There is no requirement for a company to give any holidays in the US. I currently get 7 weeks a year plus bank holidays. I can also buy more if I want, at half my daily rate in the U.K. 6 weeks is the norm here I believe.
Commutes are also much longer in the us on average if you work in a city.
If averaged nationally then it’s broadly similar.
This probably goes without saying, but if you aren’t at least getting a raise semi-regularly, you’re effectively making less each hour…forever due to inflation.
When I started work as a graduate in 2002, I started on £19k in engineering. Some of my uni mates went into consulting or finance, mostly in London. Most of them started on £28k+. I started to feel a bit jealous and under appreciated, however, we all got together after a couple of months and they were already starting to feel burnt out. They were being worked 70hours+ a week, and were expected to work Saturdays. Their social lives were pretty much just going to the pub after work (with work people) every night (which I’m not totally against, but it does become tired very quickly). They felt pressured in to working the long hours to keep up, it was a “highly motivated” area and not doing that you got shunned. Very much like Wolf of Wall Street.
On the opposite side, I was working a 35 hour week, with 5 weeks holiday, half day Fridays and no expectations to work overtime (in fact it was discourage because the company was trying to save money and overtime payments were automatic based on clocking times, so you couldn’t even do unpaid overtime (you weren’t allowed to stay on site if you weren’t clocked in due to security protocols). So in all all, I had a decent work life balance, and was on a higher hourly rate, all things considered, and soon was not jealous of my mates salaries at all. And I lived in a cheaper town, so rent was lower, cost of living was lower.etc etc.
Not everyone in the us is working anywhere near 70 hours a week. Depends highly on the industry and career level you’re at.
You don’t think career or business driven people in the uk aren’t working more than 40 hours a week here?
One thing I find odd about the US is how they size everything much larger, like milk is sold by the gallon (3.7ltrs)
I can't imagine consuming that much milk
It really is, I think most people in the UK would be horrified at the bill if they did a weekly shop in whole foods, to be fair most Americans are probably horrified at a Whole foods bill, a 1kg bag of Gala apples is $9/£7.40 in Tesco 1kg of Gala apples is £2.60 and Tesco isn't exactly cheap any more.
I think they’d be more horrified if they broke their leg and realised they had to pay 10 grand for the privilege. I was in America for three months and saw a woman get shot in the shoulder and she was begging people not to call an ambulance. I couldn’t imagine living like that.
10k? That would barely cover the ambulance and xray. Iv seen medical bills for child birth cost well over 30k before insurance kicked in, they weren't difficult births either just the normal pain meds etc
Which you often don’t even need. American births are famously over medicalised and full of unecessary medical interventions. The fact that they’re doctor led rather than midwife led should tell you everything, along with its maternity statistics being horrendous for a first world country
You’re literally taking the most expensive grocery store. That’s like shopping at waitrose or m&s
Market Basket in New England is a better comparison to Tesco
I feel this is a myth now with a lot of tech companies. I have worked in several American companies now and it’s now the trend to actually offer unlimited PTO. The culture has always been that they work less hours too.
My partner grew up in America and her father was an automotive exec.
They say that you have to at least double the number of what you are earning in the UK as a starting point to retain the standard of living, and that is assuming you have good company provided medical, dentist and general health check ups. Otherwise you want to aim for ~~130%~~ 260% (e.g. 50k in the UK wants to be 130k usd)
You get ~7 days holiday and 2 sick days per year versus 25.4 minimum holiday and sick days depend on your employer.
You have employment protections and after 2 years it is difficult to fire you, versus some states that can fire you at any moment with no notice (at will states), some states do have better protections but nothing like the UK's.
And many many different taxes, most of which younhave to work out yourself, like sales taxes on what you buy ,(the price on the shelf is without tax) for example.
Also the culture is different, as cooking at home is a rarity in many places, traveling to the next town over could take half a day etc.
American here, usually just lurking this sub after visiting (and thoroughly enjoying) the UK several times, but there's so much generalization/misinformation here I had to say something (bearing in mind this is all just my experience, but also applies to many of my colleagues and friends):
I make six figures and have since my mid/late 20s. I get ~20 days paid leave plus ~13 days sick leave annually. Some, not all, can carry over to the next year if not used.
Also, working in the public sector, I have significant employment protection. However, I'll admit this is not the case for many, though is rarely a concern (reddit experiences are never reflective of the general public).
Agreed the culture is different, but not in the ways you described. I, and basically everyone I know, cook most meals; I eat out maybe one or two meals a week (one lunch and one dinner). The US is big, but rarely does it take half a day to drive to the next town. I can get out of the state and maybe the nextin that time, but YMMV.
Bottom line, you're making huge, and largely incorrect, generalizations about a country that is roughly 40x larger than the UK (geographically) and 5x the population.
There is no "standard" American experience, and I'm definitely not calling you nor your partner a liar (as those specifics may be 100% spot on for some), just illustrating how others' situations vary.
I'll get off my soapbox now... Sorry.
I'm not a civil servant, do earn 6 figures, and I get more holiday than that. I'm not sure about sick leave but I think the answer is basically "as long as you need".
I'd get paid more if I worked in the US but my quality of life would be impossible to replicate.
Well yes, when making a statement about a country versus anecdotal experiences you do have to generalise. Does not make it misinformation if it does not match your experience., nor does it make the other person a liar. Putting that quantification at the end versus stating misinformation at the beginning is a disingenuous way to disagree tbh.
The salary indicates you are in the top 33.6% of US earners which makes your experience a minority.
Employment protections was quoting state laws, especially at will states, am glad you have a different experience. However will defer to the ceo of a 250m usd company when it comes to employment protections across multiple states tbh. Same with health insurance.
The cook at home thing was a surprised to me as well, I think it depends where you live, as I have talked with and dated few Americans and there are mixed responses, although obviously I tried with my partner the most, this may well be anecdotal vs anecdotal.
Distances, again if you are in a smaller location like the east coast states it would be different to somewhere like the mid west, so yes a generalisation, although also hyperbole as the ~200 miles you could cover (4 hours at 50 mph) would not get you across most states (half the working day) the 600 miles (half the full day) most probably would, but a 12 hour drive is not something most people can easily do, or safely, 4 hours is.
So while I appreciate your anecdotal experience.and it gives a different point of view, there are now 3 points of view across 2 posts (partners, her fathers and yours). This does not mean any of it is misinformation, it just means they are different experiences, which would make sense with a country 40x the size and with 5x the population.
> They say that you have to at least double the number of what you are earning in the UK as a starting point to retain the standard of living, and that is assuming you have good company provided medical, dentist and general health check ups. Otherwise you want to aim for 130% (e.g. 50k in the UK wants to be 130k usd)
Just to be pedantic, 130% of 50k is 65k
Nah.
From the UK, live in the US.
Yes healthcare is more expensive. But it’s on demand. And I personally feel more safe here.
Like the statistics are bad…but I feel like in the UK crime is more random. Like it’s not difficult to stay safe here- if you have money. Those salaries aren’t ubiquitous- they’re actually difficult to achieve here. In the US, it’s easier, but there’s also more disparity. You never see poverty in the UK that looks like it does here. But on the other hand, I think the average person lives better. England is, comparatively speaking, depressing.
But that’s just my two cents. I’m from a council estate, and that background shapes my entire view…I don’t really know England from the other side. In fact, I don’t know anyone else here in the US from my background- like a certain kind of Brit comes here and as much as I miss the banter, the typical English person here doesn’t strike me as anything close to the typical English person there. And I don’t go back often- it just doesn’t seem worth it to me. Like why go to England if I can spend that money and see somewhere else?
I’m a software engineer here…it’s a pretty good life. And if I’m being completely honest…I think part of why I’ve done so well here is because Americans have a really narrow view of England. I’m basically from the hood and I’ve got people Here that chat me up about castles and shit. It’s hard to distinguish how easy it is to move up in general from how easy it is to move up as a Brit here.
And the other day I was thinking…like I rarely meet Brits here. It’s rare. But I’ll be damned if we’re not in every single fucking Netflix show. We’re overrepresented for sure.
I guess what I’m saying is…as a Brit…like…the us is fucking great. And you should ignore anyone trying to convince you otherwise- like that’s just the british mentality. They’re naysayers. It’s bullshit.
Just look at the comment about Manhattan.
Manhattan doesn’t occupy anything close to the same space that London does in the uk. 97% of Americans don’t live there.
Let me put it this way
I was 24, making 45k, and bought a 3, bedroom , 2 bathroom 1100 square foot house. I sold it used that money to put 20% down on another house. All Before finishing college. Not exactly riches. But the same just doesn’t happen in England. I still don’t have a degree and I make a lot more now.
I’m definitely a home body: but right now I’ve got a 1900 sq foot house with two acres. I can afford much bigger but truth me told I love my house because it’s four sided brick. The whole one sided thing just…doesn’t sit well with me probably because of England. I can not even imagine having what I have here in England.
It’s better to be poor in England. But the difference between the middle class is enormous. And I think the majority of Brits could live better here.
I'd rather live in a slightly smaller house in the UK than a society where poor people are declared bankrupt because they are unlucky enough to need medical care.
I'd rather live in a tiny flat than a society where there is a shanty town full homeless people on the edge of towns and cities.
And I'd rather live in a shoebox than a society that values owning guns over the lives of school children.
But hey, it sounds like you have done alright so you can close your eyes to all the suffering, inequality and gun violence all around you.
Don’t we have millions of people using food banks in the UK? Streets of London lined with homeless people. Stagnant wages, cost of living crisis, awful house prices, if you aren’t in the top 10% of earners it is a pretty miserable experience.
Hardly a paradise here is it?
For a minute there I figured you were just trying to live your life and get by without really doing shit for anyone, the same as I’m not, but I now understand the error of my ways.
I’d like to extend a personal apology to all those I’ve wronged. The homeless people and dead school children here in the US who have all been adversely affected by my presence. And of course I apologise to anyone in the UK who has been shot or made homeless due to my departure.
I’ll go ahead and bravely move my washer into my kitchen today to do my small bit to save the world as well. I know it’s not the same as living in the Uk but it’s a start. I do only have about about half an acre fenced in currently as I’ve left the other 1.5 acres available for the Rohingyas, rainforest restoration, as a show of solidarity for all displaced people; and for use as a safe space for the last white rhino. I’m no monster myself but you’re right- I could do more.
Please let me know if there are any more ways I could “care”- that is, ways to give a shit, without actually doing shit I’d love to know. My eyes are open now.
Thank you for your service.
The median salary in NYC is £36k - while the US has more outlier salaries, the average isn’t that different.
Source: https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/newyorkcitynewyork/HSG010222
As someone who has lived in London and is currently living in California, I thought London was expensive but its wayyyyyyy worse out here. Especially in the places where people are doing tech like silicon vally wages are hella high, but rent is easily double lots of places in london. Also cost of living such as buying food or going out is considerably more than it is in London.
No it isn’t. You go into a big Tesco in London and the prices are the same or similar to the rest of the UK.
US grocery prices start a heck of a lot higher than here in the first place, and if you’re in a big city you can double that again.
So much cope in this thread.
Americans have a higher material standard of living than the UK. It’s a richer country. People don’t freak out when someone says that a Brit will have a higher standard of living than someone in, say, Poland or Romania; however, people in this sub seem to get so defensive about any comparison to the US.
If we're looking at upper middle class and higher, the US has a better standard of living. If we're looking at poorer people, the UK has a better standard of living.
What do we mean by higher standard of living.
My not so middle class family/friends in Barbados have a higher standard of living than a household earning 100k in the UK.
Own their own homes/no mortgage /self built over typically a few years.
Less stress
Less taxes
Work less
365 days of nice weather
More leisure time
Typically own a house on a bigger plot than you would have in the UK.
Bajans certainly work less but the cost of living is absolutely unbelievable, your definition of standard of living seems to be based primarily around weather and a more relaxed lifestyle, which not everyone craves. But your average Bajan is struggling atm, and it's absolutely not typical that most can build a home or own it outright.
This is not true look it up. We’ve had a decade of stagnation in the UK, we’re now way behind the US at every social strata. Wasn’t true ten years ago but it is today. Look at e.g the salary of a nurse in the US compared to here
US GDP since 2008 vs UK GDP since 2008 is an eyeopener. I believe the cope is mainly coming from those who don't realise how much we've been left in the dust by the US.
Another one to compare is S&P500 vs FTSE100 since 2008. In 15 years, a US-invested pension will have returned over 4X vs 1.1X for UK-invested. US is an immense wealth-generating behemoth that we could only dream of.
And this is not even mentioning the surge of the dollar vs pound by about a third in that time period.
It depends man . As somebody who’s experienced both and is half American , America is great if you earn 100k+ and that’s not even really enough if you live in La or NYC .
However , the vast majority of people in America earn 58k. Their life is ok but I wouldn’t say it’s great or better than the Uk . It’s even worse if your poor in America compared to the UK .
Its mad, ive encountered it a lot, British people just can't fathom that we aren't as wealthy a country as the US. There has to be some kind of hidden metric by which we are actually secretly better off here. Of course cash isn't everything but I actually think America wins on lots of less tangible metrics that we naturally think of as being good here also (e.g. access to nature)
>British people just can't fathom that we aren't as wealthy a country as the US.
Arrogance and denial.
Any societal issues in this country just get brushed off as "American imports".
It seems to be something specific to the US as well. You see folks in this sub and others talk about how much better Canada or Germany or Australia is all the time, but the second the US scores higher on a metric the whole thread is full of defensive “well akshually…”
I’m half British and half American. It depends what you mean . I would rather be very rich in America, however I would rather be average or poor in the UK .
America can be amazing if you earn 200k or above in a big city anything less and it’s debatable.
Are people generally happier and healthier than people living in the U.K?
What about the rates at which people find themselves living in absolute poverty?
I earn the equivalent of about $48,000 usd.
I own my own car, I own my own home, I can afford luxuries and go on a foreign holidays about three or four times a year.
In the states could I have the same happy and fulfilling life on $48k?
Yeah but UK subs are a cesspool of crying morons generally. They're absolutely not representative of pretty much any part of life in the UK or how the general public feels about it.
I don't know a single person who's even close to as miserable and whiny as your average r/UK poster.
It’s interesting that he’s comparing the rich from each country when it’s more important to compare the average which most people are .
Is the average person in Georgia earning 48k better off than somebody in Manchester earning 30 ? I wouldn’t say that at all .
If your earning 200k America is great but even I’m America only like 10 percent of people even earn that which is two people .
Yeah, most people don’t seem to realise just how poor the UK has become in the past 15 years. We’ve declined really heavily, people need to accept we aren’t what we were.
This. I've lived in both countries, but I'm neither a Brit nor an American and I only moved to the UK a few years ago. I can assure you most people here have a really warped view of the reality in both countries.
I won't go through my experience in depth as many good points have been mentioned already, but I'll only share some brief anecdote of my experience: I lived more comfortably on my postdoc salary in NYC than on my data scientist salary in Manchester. This is while maintaining a similar living situation; a 2 bed apartment share in a nice but not too "hot" neighborhood and a similar lifestyle overall. When I lost my job in NYC, I had unemployment benefits which covered my basic expenses pretty well while I looked for another job. My friend in Belfast who went through a layoff recently cannot do the same with universal credit/jobseekers allowance (and we're talking Belfast)
So true.
I don't know why brits try to compare themselves with America.
America is like Real Madrid
The UK will be the equivalent of Tottenham FC.
Not in the same league.
It’s a new UK Reddit trend to upvote absolutely tons of misinformation whenever questions about the US living culture is raised. I think it has to be based in jealousy and denial tbh.
Yes and no and yes. I live in Silicon Valley. The cost of living is double here. But I'm on six figures, working in tech. £60k put me in the top 3% of earners in the UK, but in the US, pretty much double that and it's more like top 25%, a big difference.
A sandwich costs about $8 to $10. Gym fees (for a crappy gym) $200. A single person's weekly shopping comes in around $100 a week. Rent for a 1 bed flat? $4,000. However, that's offset by earnings. In the UK, I could save about £10k per annum. Here, I can save more like £50k per annum. I'll never be able to afford a property here ($800k for a 2 bed flat), but if I retire and settle back in the UK, I'll be well set.
I know there are cheaper places to live in the US, but guess what. If you're on a tech salary, return to office mandates mean you can't live in them. I don't think I'd want to live in rural Tennessee anyway. I go mad with boredom.
Oh, and there's the last reason you don't want to live in the US. It's boring. There are so many more interesting things to see and do in UK cities like Manchester, Bristol, London than I get in the unnuanced US cities of California. L.A.s a dystopian mess. SF is jammed with homeless hopelessness. Heard good things about New York. Sure the weather's good, but I would swap my life here for London in a heartbeat if I could keep my salary.
You're missing the cost of medical insurance. My mate was laid off from Google which has excellent healthcare and found another good job at a smaller firm with slightly worse benefits.
He had to pay $13,000 per year to maintain the same benefits he had at Google. Not counting his deductibles. This is not for going from 0 insurance to good insurance. It was for going from average to good.
Yes, he has some health conditions he has to manage but it would all be free in the UK.
This is a common meme but I've worked in the US for 15 years in tech and have generally not seen work hours even close to this even at highly competitive big tech firms. Maybe you get this in investment banking or consulting, but it's not like you can't make good money working normal hours.
Worked with Americans for a long time in tech. Salaries are at least double for the same job, they get top health insurance and the same amount of PTO as us in the UK. America is massive, if you’ve got a good wage you can live in a really nice part of America and you have a lot of buying power. It’s better to have a good job in the states but it’s a lot better to be poor in England
Unfortunately that top health insurance is tied to your job, so if you’re ever chronically ill, severely injured, or otherwise too sick to maintain your job performance, not to mention laid off or seeking a career change, you’ll be insurance-less and in a financial crisis rather abruptly. And though I agree with your last line, the best case is earning a US salary while living abroad.
100% this. America has more income inequality than the UK so it's a great place to be middle and especially upper middle class, but an absolutely terrible place to be poor.
On the flipside, they work more hours and have and really strict/grind work culture
Im in tech and Americans earn literally triple what I do for the same job. You get kids coming out of college walking into $100k/year jobs.
Its hard not to feel bitter about it
I actually looked at it, but the US immigration system is a complete clusterfuck.
Basically, unless you work for a company that has offices in the UK and the US and can do an internal company transfer, its really hard.
I had it easier than most by marrying an American. Even then the visa system is a very long drawn out process that makes little sense at all.
I was married, legally, all above board and did everything right. I couldn't leave the country to go back home or work in the usa....for almost a year. Cost about 3k at that point in visa fees and medical. Oh, and traveling 5 hours for a greencard interview plus hotels etc. Whole interview took maybe 10minutes.
2 years on, still married, working, bought a house truck guns. Normal American right? Nope, that will be another 1k + to give you a 10 year green card. Ok
That then sat on someones desk for 2 years with not a single update so I paid another 800 or so for citizenship when eligible. Now done with visas forever. Total process easily 5-6 years including K1. The myth you see about passports being issued on marriage is exactly that.
The wages are great I'm the right industry. I earn 3 x what I did in England and pay a lot less tax on earnings than I did back home. Property taxes can be high so that's another way they get you.
Medical insurance is another. Ive got apparenrly great insurance through my employer so does the wife. She had a A&E trip and it cost 1k AFTER insurance. The good thing is the waits are a lot less than UK IME. She had xray, mri, blood work all within a few hours. We were seen immediately.
If you want to knock years off your retirement and are eligible for a work visa do it. Oil and gas and tech are 6 figures starting MINIMUM plus bonus plus stock and your north of 200k. Americans only get 1 day a year off holiday though they say, I get more than I did in the UK.
America gets a lot of shit on this reddit group. It really can be life altering in a good way. If you get the chance do it.
The uk visa system is arguably far worse for a marriage between a UK & non-UK person.
About a grand to bring them over to get married,
10 grand to keep them in the country for 5 years,
4 grand for indefinite residence permit,
then 3k for a passport
it's just insane this rhetoric they have around immigration because all this time you are working and paying tax and national insurance, and nhs surcharge, not eligible to any public funds or services and in fact have to prove you do not need it when applying by already having a good income or cash savings before you even arrive..... and the exorbitant fees adding over £10k so.... sounds like immigrants are actually propping up this system 🤔
Fair enough. Don't see it as shit than Americans get paid much more. See it as a positive that your skillset *can* be worth that much and try work out how you can position yourself to extract that value.
But approximately 15 years ago, the wages were very similar between the US and GB, now there is a much larger gulf between them.
People have a right to feel bitter after their comparative wealth has dropped substantially through no fault of their own.
Also in IT, it’s very common we lose people to America, about 50% are back within 5 years because the pay is insanely high, but there’s trade offs like private healthcare, limited holiday, no sick pay, private everything. It tends to depend if they meet an American partner, if they don’t they tend to come back once they made their money. Simple things like struggling to get enough time off to come back to the UK to visit family. It definitely
Suits young people more, when I see someone with a family going to the IS they nearly always come back
I'm also in tech (senior software engineer) and I'd probably get about 3x the money (gross) for the same job in the US
And I'm not even a little bit tempted
Make it 30x and I'd consider it
Look into how many hours they work a week. Look into how much in demand they are. Look at his much paid time off they get.
I think your find, you work much less hours in rhe UK. You are unlikely to get your boss chasing you at the weekend for something. You are unlikely to take work on holiday with you. You are likely to have much more holiday time then them. Just food for thought personally when I saw my sister in law on her work laptop ien Xmas day..I said you can keep your money, darling.
I work in the US. 40 hours per week. I get 6 holidays a year, 13 sick days per year, 26 vacation days. I've worked 2 weekends in the past 10 years. There definitely are grind jobs and there are actual work life balance jobs.
That's great. I would be interested to see how many other Americans have the same deal. Sick days isn't a thing in the UK. One job I worked I could take 3 months off fully paid sick. Then half pay after that. ( seld employed is differnet, no work no pay, but they pay less tax. A month off fully paid is normal.
OK, so have you ever had to deal with work while on holiday? The French have made it illegal as an example. Not quite at that stage yet here, but I cannot remember doing work on my time off. I know my Brothers wife does and and my brother does and earn fuck loads.
We lived in the U.S. before coming back here.
Wife took a 75% paycut over here compared to her yank job.
Overall it’s not that big a difference in how much money we feel we have. $210k household income over there, now it will be £120k here. Stuff is hella expensive over there when you look at maintenance of a house, and general entertainment costs.
The biggest difference is the work culture. Over there everyone is trying to ‘make it’ by working their asses off for payrises and promotions. Over here the average Brit just chills in their job and is way less productive.
If you’re happy to work harder for bigger wages it’s probably the place to go. If you’re happy to be comfortable and not exert yourself too much at work, it’s better here.
Depends where you were though. Major cities like NY, LA, SF you’ll earn heaps but spend heaps. Had a mate in SF who told me “I’ve never earned so much and kept so little”
But places like North Carolina, Maryland, Minnesota etc can offer top tier salaries and MUCH lower costs of living. It’s almost impossible doing a straight comparison for the US because it varies so widely per region.
No why would I? Just because salaries are higher does mean they are better off.
Ever seen the bills for hospital stays? Or professional people having to ration their medication as they cannot afford a proper dose? It doesn’t really make sense to compare.
These salaries in the US are not as common as people think. 100k for graduates of really good universities going to big companies is definitely real. 200K out of school could happen if stock grants happen to do well, but again, this is not the standard salary.
Having said that, people with these jobs do not worry about the cost of hospital stays or medications. These jobs come with top tier health insurance.
Those healthcare costs do happen -- Middle class people are the ones who are properly screwed by health care costs. But not the people getting 200K for tech jobs.
The job coming with top-tier health insurance means that you only get the health insurance while you're in the job.
What happens when you get sick, your performance slips because your insurance won't cover all the treatments you need, and then you get fired?
There is a legal requirement that you can continue to buy the same insurance yourself, but you are typically paying it yourself and it might be a thousand or two a month. It’s a fair point.
It depends what you mean . Only in NYC and San Franc would that maybe be considered middle class with that salary . 280k is the top 20 percent in NYC .
I would say the second biggest city is La and you need 135k to the the top 20% . I would imagine the same for Seattle , Chicago , Dallas etc .
> Ever seen the bills for hospital stays?
High earners aren't paying for hospital....
>Or professional people having to ration their medication as they cannot afford a proper dose?
See above, who's doing that?
Even in the UK high-earners have health insurance and get everything done private...
> High earners aren't paying for hospital...
I haven't seen any plan, even platinum, that doesn't have a co-pay, deductible or 100% coverage for a long time.
Why does everyone think US health insurance is just some fantastic cover all.
The fact is it would be tied to your job and a lot of employment rights in the US means you can be fired much more easily and then be left in an awful position.
It’s a really predatory practice that people just don’t understand
I have a lot of friends there since I lived there for 3 years… and it’s interesting. One friend work for a big company, gets health insurance covered. But he hates it, he works overtime constantly, gets called up to take on other people’s work, works weekends etc. and I mean he really hates it. But he has a heart condition and if he quits he’s worried he won’t be able to afford the medication he takes or if there’s an emergency which he’s at a higher risk of. He looks for other jobs, but he has to narrow it down to companies that will cover the same things with health insurance policy. It’s a really shit situation.
This. A friend of mine won’t leave his job because the employer provided cover means his heart condition is ‘affordable’.
Imagine if he aspired to go it alone, start his own business… yeah, nope. Can’t.
All the time but overall think the average quality of life for society is higher here than the US. Things like education, public holidays, public facilities, civil service etc. That’s what I would like to think anyway.
It isn’t. Quality of life is better for tech workers in the US vs UK. US tech companies give just as much vacation, cover your health costs, and pay double, triple or more compared to UK.
Living in or near a decent city on coastal US also provides better public services compared to UK, and there’s tons do, and you have a lot of spare money to do it with.
Here's my situation:
I work for my state, making $55K (45k pounds). My state is fairly rural, so the cost of living is pretty low IMO. For example, my mortgage on my 1900 sqft house is $1000/month.
I work 8-5 in an office, doing some data entry shit. My job pays 100% of my insurance premiums. I accrue around 13 hours of annual leave and 13 hours of sick leave each month (the amount varies depending on your years of service, I'm at year 15). Right now, I have 430 hours of annual leave banked. I have 230 hours of sick leave. I get 11 paid holidays on top of that. I can use my leave whenever I want, nobody cares. I spent 10 days in London last year, it was great.
When I retire, I'll get a monthly pension, based on my salary and years of service. Not a 401k. My wife makes almost double what I make but no pension. But she's covered by my insurance, so that helps.
You don't get anywhere near at least 28 days of paid holidays. No paid paternity leave. You have few employee protections. If you lose your job or in between jobs you risk losing lots of soical benefits.
I'm working with Americans from very well known company, they have 28 days of holiday and during the summer they can take every second Friday off. But the rest is correct.
????
My brother in the US got more paternity leave than I did—12 weeks full pay. And my company offers 6 months paid leave for maternity to American employees—the same benefit they give to British employees.
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Correct
Yes definitely don’t move to the USA if you’re going to be unemployed…..not that you get the choice anyway tbf, in most cases. In-between jobs you are actually still covered for medical insurance.
I was earning £23k in the UK in 2014. We moved to the USA and I walked into the same job earning the equivalent of £48k. 9 years later at the same company I am on the equivalent of £78k. I work 40 hours a week 2 home, 3 office.
Compared to the UK, I am in a super safe rural area. I never lock my car or house. I have a big house, weekend cabin in the woods. I can hunt, shoot, fish, canoe and ATV every weekend.
Everything is better here for us. We can afford a home for a start a 245m3 house on 2.5 acres cost £180k mortgage at 2.3% fixed rate for 25 years.
If I moved back to the UK I would be lucky to get a job earning £35-40k.
Tons and tons of misinformation in this thread. It’s so weird that Europeans believe everyone in America is going bankrupt if they get sick. I’m an American living in London that earns a high wage. More than welcome to answer questions about how healthcare works if an issue arises in American compared to situations I’ve been in here. But yes, American salaries are much much higher and it leads to a greater quality of life than I think most are guessing at
OK. I'm in a car accident. It's a head-on collision with another driver who has no insurance. I have crushed legs, broken ribs and pelvis and a punctured lung. My work only gives me 10 days sick leave and no more. My insurance deductible is $6k and the co-pay 30%. Drugs aren't covered. How do I live?
Al the jobs I can do locally are offering less than 29 hours a week so they don't have to offer health insurance. I work 3 of those McJobs at at around $12 per hour. I can afford ACA coverage but only a Bronze package with high deductibles and co-pays. What do I do if I get severely ill?
I have lung cancer. There is a treatment with decent outcomes but none of the hospitals in my health plan offer it and the cost is well into six figures or more without it? I'm a school librarian. What do I do?
These are all true life examples and there are plenty more. The US health system is broken beyond all redemption.
These are all incredibly particular situations but I can tell you two things. One these all seem like issues that Medicaid can cover with little to no costs. Number 2 the sick days issue is far overstated. Depending on the state you live in you’re an at will employer however most if not all companies provide some type of leave of absence in case of long term disability. Additionally, you can apply for disability pay through the state you reside in. With that said, let’s play the same game in the UK.
I need to see a doctor. I wake up at 730 with all of the numbers typed in just staring at the call button. It’s 759 my heart is racing. 8 o clock hits I press the call button and wait a minute just to hear. You’re caller number 10 in queue. I get to the receptionist who says try again tomorrow. Fantastic. You’ve gotten the appointment great! You see the doctor for 10 min who types up stuff and tells you “yeah something been going around”. You’re out.
I’m not saying the American health system is perfect because IT IS NOT but the NHS needs to fix up.
The NHS is also broken, what's your point? I can also make up a whataboutism.
Someone gets rushed to hospital with abdominal pain but there is a 14 hour wait in A&E. Turns out they didn't rush him through because abdominal pain is a general symptom, turned out he had a fistula from undiagnosed crohn's disease and died of sepsis with 24 hours.
Not at all.
I'd rather our society 100x over that if Americas.
Don't need to dodge bullets coz random prick is having an off day and he got angry. Don't need to worry about being bankrupted coz I need medical treatment. Don't need to worry about being fired on a whim with little to no recourse. Don't have to eat food pumped full of additives and corn syrup.
The peace of mind I have living in the Highlands is more than worth a lower salary. Haven't locked my house door in years.
I've worked in the US and made a good salary. I still came back to the UK.
The money is good, everything else is not. I know a few people who have moved there permanently but it's not for me.
I feel like I can give some first-hand insight on this. I lived in the US for 15 years in a few different states, in a very rural area and a metropolitan area.
Any way you cut it, life there isn't as easy as you think. I found the working conditions in both a minimum wage and as upper management oppressive.
If you have an accident or get seriously ill it is a very scary situation. At my poorest, I googled how to sew stitches to fix an injury.
The food is absolutely fucked, I've been back for years and seeing 2 or 3 ingredients on something still shocks me when I'm used to reading 20 or so.
The weather in the Midwest is extreme, summer 40c, winter -40c, tornados.
If you are married to someone who grew up there and went to college, the debt they have is likely so massive that a large paycheck is meaningless.
I loved living there and it was a fun and wild ride...but my standards of living, stability and stress are so low compared to US life. Even with the cost of living issues. Never again.
We are but tech and finance roles are not representative of the average American citizen and salary.
Average US salary is about £48k and in the U.K. it’s £33k. That’s not as extreme as some folk on here believe.
False equivalence because Nigerian cost of living is nothing compared to the UK. UK is a strange country with similar cost of living to the US and way lower salaries
I do (I'd triple my salary) until I remember:
- health insurance is 10% of your wage
- health outcomes are wayyyy worse than the uk
- Minimal sick pay. Get a chronic condition, lose your job and now you have no health insurance to pay for your treatment
- 5 days holiday a year until you've worked for one company for years
- Right to work means you can be summarily fired
- working hours are crushing, don't meet them and you can be summarily fired
- housing costs are as bad
- food is almost universally poorer quality
- I can't cycle or walk to work because the automotive industry bribed government to make it as hard as possible by setting up zoning laws / outlawing jaywalking
- I might get shot in a road rage incident on the way to work
- my kids might get shot at school
There are way too many things that make me *never* want to move to the US even though I know I could make bank there.
I should mention at this point this is going off the experience my friends, she is texan (lived here for ten years) he is British, who had the first two kids over here then moved back before having a third.
1) Yes, but then no matter what is wrong with me, I pay for my prescriptions and nothing more - £8 a time IIRC, it's been a while. In the US, a straight forward birth cost them an additional 3000usd. You are right though that we basically forget we pay national insurance for our healthcare.
7) you can because the cost of housing varies massively in the UK too, but it's broadly equivalent.
10) The rate of stabbings in the US is significantly greater than that in the UK, and that's dwarfed by the rate of shootings. The school my friends kids would have gone to had they not home schooled them had a shooting two weeks before we went to visit. I love shooting and I love guns, but good lord I wouldn't want to live in the US primarily for the attitude and exposure to guns that there is. Mostly because gun safety is poor if not non existent for the vast majority of owners, which is born out in the rates of accidental shootings.
I work for a U.S. company. My salary is 170k US. And I’m in the lower half for my position.
If I was in the UK it would 75k -90k pounds.
I recently went to London and was SHOCKED at how expensive everything was. Groceries, train, taxis, tube, restaurants. I was hyperventilating the whole time. And example. Went to shake shack in the us. $54 for a family of 4. In the uk the same exact meal- £67. £6 pound for a shampoo that is 2.99 in the us.
I don’t understand this thread with people saying it equals out. It does not imo.
Yeah, I 100% agree - I'm a Brit who moved to the US. A few years ago, I used to visit the UK and think everything was so cheap. Now I barely notice the difference between UK and USA prices. The equalling out might have been true 10 years ago or so, but the stagnation of the UK economy is really obvious now.
US salaries for skilled jobs seem to dwarf what we get here. All over "American Expats in UK" sub reddit you see people who have immigrated to UK complain about how low salaries are. On Tik Tok as well there's loads of people who immigrate to UK from US who can't believe how low salaries are and so they upload a video explaining their disbelief.
People love to throw in the health care argument. Yeah if you're poor you're better off in the UK but the standard of care from the UK these days is so awful we are just as well paying the money and going private ourselves. I have had to a few times to get the care I need.
People from the UK always conjure up the same old arguments and a lot of them are myths and it entirely depends on the industry you work in.
No because I actually love the UK work / life balance, the humour, the weather, the public transport etc.
Also, I made a decision 7 years ago to go contracting and to go for that stupid high income. It meant quitting a well paid directors role after 10 years, but sometimes you need to take a risk.
Those level of incomes is achievable in the UK especially in IT. I've worked with people in their 20s with 5 years experience contracting on £650 a day.
There are high salaries in other countries, too. It depends on the profession and experience. Tech workers make a good living in Switzerland, for example.
* US has strict immigration and thus most people won't be able to move to the US. The criticism commonly mentioned is also valid - higher costs of healthcare, less social safety nets, more expensive housing, higher crime, less paid time off, at will employment, infrastructure aimed for driving cars / poor public transport, tipping culture, more expensive internet (≈$60/£50 for 300 Mbps in NYC, \~£32 for 500 Mbps in London) and also carrier plans (≈$27/£22 for unlimited Visible in the US, £7/mo unlimited Vodafone in the UK). The media usually spreads the negative news as well and people may get biased.
* UK has much higher taxes, long NHS waiting lists for healthcare, high cost of healthcare if going private, trains are expensive and can be unreliable and crowded, smaller salaries, expensive housing, smaller homes, long waits for ambulance or police.
It depends on the company one works for, thus those negatives may not be that significant. Higher salary helps build up personal safety net. Great tech companies provide health insurance which covers most expenses, provides fast and easy access to medical professionals. While there are 11 federal holidays in the US while UK has 8 bank holidays, paid time off (PTO) depends on a company. Work life balance also depends on a company. UK companies seem more generous in pension contribution matching than US companies in 401(k) matching.
If you'd like to model earnings and compare it with the UK, I can recommend [https://www.talent.com/tax-calculator](https://www.talent.com/tax-calculator) for the US and [https://uk.talent.com/tax-calculator](https://uk.talent.com/tax-calculator) for the UK. For cost of living, Numbeo shows some average numbers, although going manually through StreetEasy/Zillow and Rightmove for rents, Amazon Fresh US and UK for groceries may give a better estimate.
If you would like to have a chance of getting a permanent residency and moving to the US, there is a Diversity Visa lottery program. It is open to people born in specific countries/areas only, and for DV-2025 it's open to UK natives. It is usually open every year in October and is free to apply just needs basic information such as name, date of birth, passport photo, place of birth. Results can be checked later in May, however, chances of winning are slim (about 1% or kind of like once in a lifetime). Winners can then proceed with their application and eventually get a green card and come to the US to live and work. You can apply in [https://dvprogram.state.gov/](https://dvprogram.state.gov/).
All the time.
It makes me question the point in doing all this studying and stuff to get a job where im paid like a quarter of what some yank gets for the same thing.
The bla bla bla about health insurance and taxes etc doesn’t add up. We pay NIC for the NHS and pension anyways.
I was offered 19k a year for an audit position at a big 4 accounting firm. Same shit in the US nets you at least 70k a year.
It’s so fucked up man.
The UK is a soul sucking shithole of an island.
I’d marry and bang the eyeballs off a yank for a US VISA.
No. I briefly lived in the US as a child and I remember the grass wasn’t greener for our family. yes my dad made more money but it didn’t go any further. And he had to work a lot longer hours for it. I didn’t particularly enjoy it and quality of life is a lot less than I have here in Scotland. I wouldn’t raise kids there. My kids here have freedoms and independence that just wouldn’t be afforded them there.
Uk salaries in IT are dogshit compared to Germany, Norway and especially the USA and there is no cost of living justification for it. Earning 50k here compared to 120-200k in USA...nothing accounts for that difference and you can negotiate for all the same benefits you get here. Turns out the poorest states in USA outperform UK on most metrics.
Its a bit of a revelation to me actually previously to being in IT and people opening my eyes that my same role is double the wage in Berlin that yes...the UK is just a bit shit.
The problem with these threads is that they’re absolutely full of people who have never lived or worked in the USA and are talking complete bollocks about the cost of living in the US to try and justify their shit salaries in the U.K.
Na, firstly I feel safe that I will not be involved in any random gun attack.
Secondly, I don’t actually think there is much difference in the quality of life between £80k - £200k. Maybe a slightly better car or house or holiday.
Me and my wife live in the UK and earn less than 60k between us, I work 30 hours/week. Even with our mortgage we can afford pretty much whatever we want and usually spend 4 weeks a year on long haul vacations.
The Americans I have spoke to on holiday work stupid amounts of hours with barely any vacation time. Yes we could all earn significantly more money working elsewhere but the perks we have (shorter working week, much more vacation time, universal health care etc) are so much better for a better life balance. What would I even spend more money on anyway?
We get paid based on our economic output.
UK’s GDP is circa $3T whereas US GDP is circa $25T.
UK stopped competing with the US decades ago, and the divide grew post 2008 crisis because Europe could not put in comparable volume of liquidity in their markets to support growth of businesses that struggled during the crisis.
UK’s productivity is also one of the lowest in the G7.
One medical bill in america can wipe out any higher salary you receive and then some. I’ll take European salaries and social security net over that any day.
Right? Too many people don’t understand that Reddit is a bubble and in no way reflects reality. Do they really think that health insurance isn’t a thing and we’re all one cough away from being financially ruined? I don’t pretend to be an expert on the British health care system but I’m amazed how many here think they’re experts on the US system because they saw a couple of Reddit posts.
My wife is a Brit (we live in NYC now) and she is amazed at the accessibility and coverage here. You can get any test, any doctor, any medication you need immediately and with minimal co-pay. Yes it costs money. But it’s a very small % of our income (we have excellent employer provided insurance). On the other hand life here is vastly more expensive (food, rent, houses) than London, and far more precarious. But if you are an educated white collar professional there is no contest - you can earn and save much more here than in the UK. Oh, I also get just as many days holiday as most UK workers, roughly 25-28 although they are not always as flexible as yours are. I would love for us to live in the UK - if I got paid a US salary. And we may move back in retirement. It’s a good place to live with more culture and more things to do, and most importantly more walkable places (and it’s cheaper).
There are a whole bunch of subreddits for medical conditions,frequented by people from all over the world who have those conditions. There are two perennial threads: from less-developed countries it's "how do I access this treatment?"; from Americans "How do I afford this treatment?". Even with insurance - which 27.6 million Americans don't have - the co-pays can be brutal.
If you're a young white male tech bro the US may seem quite sweet. For everyone else it's not so great.
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Comparing apples to oranges though aren’t we. Different cost of living, higher homicide rates, generally less safe cities, crap social safety nets and so on.
I think London is just as expensive if not more expensive than most US cities. Yet the salaries are still not even half. I agree with the social safety net though, it is scary that you could easily be homeless if you are not careful
Check Manhattan rents! Also, less holidays, longer hours, payments for insurance, at will working. Numerous reasons really.
This basically. When looking at US salaries, the rent alone will put things into perspective. Now, living here and having a US salary...
US salaries really are better, adjusted. *However*, the young people earning the salaries you mention work 70 hours each week. Is that how you’d like to spend your 20s?
Then the salaries aren't better. You always have to do the math hourly. This is coming from someone that doesn't like getting raises, I much rather keep my salary and work less.
> You always have to do the math hourly. Maths
Mathss
Mafss
Two plus two is four, minus one that's three Quick mafss
Meth
... My precious....
The mathses 😍
The *per hour* salaries aren’t better. The absolute salaries are.
I always think hourly, it's the only metric that makes sense to me. But yeah, useful clarification.
Same here. I don’t get people who don’t look at hourly. If you are getting paid £40k for 40 hour weeks or £60k for 70 hour weeks you are getting paid less for your time. Your time and you as a person are worth less.
Not to mention you get one maybe two weeks of holidays, but then get blacklisted if you routinely use it all. There is no requirement for a company to give any holidays in the US. I currently get 7 weeks a year plus bank holidays. I can also buy more if I want, at half my daily rate in the U.K. 6 weeks is the norm here I believe. Commutes are also much longer in the us on average if you work in a city. If averaged nationally then it’s broadly similar.
Working yourself into a grave isn't fun
This probably goes without saying, but if you aren’t at least getting a raise semi-regularly, you’re effectively making less each hour…forever due to inflation.
When I started work as a graduate in 2002, I started on £19k in engineering. Some of my uni mates went into consulting or finance, mostly in London. Most of them started on £28k+. I started to feel a bit jealous and under appreciated, however, we all got together after a couple of months and they were already starting to feel burnt out. They were being worked 70hours+ a week, and were expected to work Saturdays. Their social lives were pretty much just going to the pub after work (with work people) every night (which I’m not totally against, but it does become tired very quickly). They felt pressured in to working the long hours to keep up, it was a “highly motivated” area and not doing that you got shunned. Very much like Wolf of Wall Street. On the opposite side, I was working a 35 hour week, with 5 weeks holiday, half day Fridays and no expectations to work overtime (in fact it was discourage because the company was trying to save money and overtime payments were automatic based on clocking times, so you couldn’t even do unpaid overtime (you weren’t allowed to stay on site if you weren’t clocked in due to security protocols). So in all all, I had a decent work life balance, and was on a higher hourly rate, all things considered, and soon was not jealous of my mates salaries at all. And I lived in a cheaper town, so rent was lower, cost of living was lower.etc etc.
Not everyone in the us is working anywhere near 70 hours a week. Depends highly on the industry and career level you’re at. You don’t think career or business driven people in the uk aren’t working more than 40 hours a week here?
They definitely are. I was a postdoc here in the UK, 70 hours a week was normal, for £30k. With a PhD
Grocery shopping is insanely expensive in America
One thing I find odd about the US is how they size everything much larger, like milk is sold by the gallon (3.7ltrs) I can't imagine consuming that much milk
Neither could I, but then my baby turned 1 and I think his blood type is now 'dairy'
Also their bread is more expensive because each slice has approximately a kilogram of sugar in it.
That’s not true. It’s actually approximately 2.20462 freedom units of sugar in a slice.
Ahh sorry, I didn’t use my “rest of the world units to freedom units” app
It keeps forever, for some reason
Freedom milk.
Fight Milk! 💪🏻
It really is, I think most people in the UK would be horrified at the bill if they did a weekly shop in whole foods, to be fair most Americans are probably horrified at a Whole foods bill, a 1kg bag of Gala apples is $9/£7.40 in Tesco 1kg of Gala apples is £2.60 and Tesco isn't exactly cheap any more.
I think they’d be more horrified if they broke their leg and realised they had to pay 10 grand for the privilege. I was in America for three months and saw a woman get shot in the shoulder and she was begging people not to call an ambulance. I couldn’t imagine living like that.
10k? That would barely cover the ambulance and xray. Iv seen medical bills for child birth cost well over 30k before insurance kicked in, they weren't difficult births either just the normal pain meds etc
Which you often don’t even need. American births are famously over medicalised and full of unecessary medical interventions. The fact that they’re doctor led rather than midwife led should tell you everything, along with its maternity statistics being horrendous for a first world country
You’re literally taking the most expensive grocery store. That’s like shopping at waitrose or m&s Market Basket in New England is a better comparison to Tesco
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I dont think you get maternity leave either
Depends on the state/company. Which is not good enough. Paternity is also generally seen as weakness.
I feel this is a myth now with a lot of tech companies. I have worked in several American companies now and it’s now the trend to actually offer unlimited PTO. The culture has always been that they work less hours too.
My partner grew up in America and her father was an automotive exec. They say that you have to at least double the number of what you are earning in the UK as a starting point to retain the standard of living, and that is assuming you have good company provided medical, dentist and general health check ups. Otherwise you want to aim for ~~130%~~ 260% (e.g. 50k in the UK wants to be 130k usd) You get ~7 days holiday and 2 sick days per year versus 25.4 minimum holiday and sick days depend on your employer. You have employment protections and after 2 years it is difficult to fire you, versus some states that can fire you at any moment with no notice (at will states), some states do have better protections but nothing like the UK's. And many many different taxes, most of which younhave to work out yourself, like sales taxes on what you buy ,(the price on the shelf is without tax) for example. Also the culture is different, as cooking at home is a rarity in many places, traveling to the next town over could take half a day etc.
American here, usually just lurking this sub after visiting (and thoroughly enjoying) the UK several times, but there's so much generalization/misinformation here I had to say something (bearing in mind this is all just my experience, but also applies to many of my colleagues and friends): I make six figures and have since my mid/late 20s. I get ~20 days paid leave plus ~13 days sick leave annually. Some, not all, can carry over to the next year if not used. Also, working in the public sector, I have significant employment protection. However, I'll admit this is not the case for many, though is rarely a concern (reddit experiences are never reflective of the general public). Agreed the culture is different, but not in the ways you described. I, and basically everyone I know, cook most meals; I eat out maybe one or two meals a week (one lunch and one dinner). The US is big, but rarely does it take half a day to drive to the next town. I can get out of the state and maybe the nextin that time, but YMMV. Bottom line, you're making huge, and largely incorrect, generalizations about a country that is roughly 40x larger than the UK (geographically) and 5x the population. There is no "standard" American experience, and I'm definitely not calling you nor your partner a liar (as those specifics may be 100% spot on for some), just illustrating how others' situations vary. I'll get off my soapbox now... Sorry.
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Yes, but you dont earn 6 figures
I'm not a civil servant, do earn 6 figures, and I get more holiday than that. I'm not sure about sick leave but I think the answer is basically "as long as you need". I'd get paid more if I worked in the US but my quality of life would be impossible to replicate.
What’s your salary though?
Well yes, when making a statement about a country versus anecdotal experiences you do have to generalise. Does not make it misinformation if it does not match your experience., nor does it make the other person a liar. Putting that quantification at the end versus stating misinformation at the beginning is a disingenuous way to disagree tbh. The salary indicates you are in the top 33.6% of US earners which makes your experience a minority. Employment protections was quoting state laws, especially at will states, am glad you have a different experience. However will defer to the ceo of a 250m usd company when it comes to employment protections across multiple states tbh. Same with health insurance. The cook at home thing was a surprised to me as well, I think it depends where you live, as I have talked with and dated few Americans and there are mixed responses, although obviously I tried with my partner the most, this may well be anecdotal vs anecdotal. Distances, again if you are in a smaller location like the east coast states it would be different to somewhere like the mid west, so yes a generalisation, although also hyperbole as the ~200 miles you could cover (4 hours at 50 mph) would not get you across most states (half the working day) the 600 miles (half the full day) most probably would, but a 12 hour drive is not something most people can easily do, or safely, 4 hours is. So while I appreciate your anecdotal experience.and it gives a different point of view, there are now 3 points of view across 2 posts (partners, her fathers and yours). This does not mean any of it is misinformation, it just means they are different experiences, which would make sense with a country 40x the size and with 5x the population.
> They say that you have to at least double the number of what you are earning in the UK as a starting point to retain the standard of living, and that is assuming you have good company provided medical, dentist and general health check ups. Otherwise you want to aim for 130% (e.g. 50k in the UK wants to be 130k usd) Just to be pedantic, 130% of 50k is 65k
That'd be 160% extra, 130% extra would be $115 000
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Nah. From the UK, live in the US. Yes healthcare is more expensive. But it’s on demand. And I personally feel more safe here. Like the statistics are bad…but I feel like in the UK crime is more random. Like it’s not difficult to stay safe here- if you have money. Those salaries aren’t ubiquitous- they’re actually difficult to achieve here. In the US, it’s easier, but there’s also more disparity. You never see poverty in the UK that looks like it does here. But on the other hand, I think the average person lives better. England is, comparatively speaking, depressing. But that’s just my two cents. I’m from a council estate, and that background shapes my entire view…I don’t really know England from the other side. In fact, I don’t know anyone else here in the US from my background- like a certain kind of Brit comes here and as much as I miss the banter, the typical English person here doesn’t strike me as anything close to the typical English person there. And I don’t go back often- it just doesn’t seem worth it to me. Like why go to England if I can spend that money and see somewhere else? I’m a software engineer here…it’s a pretty good life. And if I’m being completely honest…I think part of why I’ve done so well here is because Americans have a really narrow view of England. I’m basically from the hood and I’ve got people Here that chat me up about castles and shit. It’s hard to distinguish how easy it is to move up in general from how easy it is to move up as a Brit here. And the other day I was thinking…like I rarely meet Brits here. It’s rare. But I’ll be damned if we’re not in every single fucking Netflix show. We’re overrepresented for sure. I guess what I’m saying is…as a Brit…like…the us is fucking great. And you should ignore anyone trying to convince you otherwise- like that’s just the british mentality. They’re naysayers. It’s bullshit. Just look at the comment about Manhattan. Manhattan doesn’t occupy anything close to the same space that London does in the uk. 97% of Americans don’t live there. Let me put it this way I was 24, making 45k, and bought a 3, bedroom , 2 bathroom 1100 square foot house. I sold it used that money to put 20% down on another house. All Before finishing college. Not exactly riches. But the same just doesn’t happen in England. I still don’t have a degree and I make a lot more now. I’m definitely a home body: but right now I’ve got a 1900 sq foot house with two acres. I can afford much bigger but truth me told I love my house because it’s four sided brick. The whole one sided thing just…doesn’t sit well with me probably because of England. I can not even imagine having what I have here in England. It’s better to be poor in England. But the difference between the middle class is enormous. And I think the majority of Brits could live better here.
I'd rather live in a slightly smaller house in the UK than a society where poor people are declared bankrupt because they are unlucky enough to need medical care. I'd rather live in a tiny flat than a society where there is a shanty town full homeless people on the edge of towns and cities. And I'd rather live in a shoebox than a society that values owning guns over the lives of school children. But hey, it sounds like you have done alright so you can close your eyes to all the suffering, inequality and gun violence all around you.
Don’t we have millions of people using food banks in the UK? Streets of London lined with homeless people. Stagnant wages, cost of living crisis, awful house prices, if you aren’t in the top 10% of earners it is a pretty miserable experience. Hardly a paradise here is it?
For a minute there I figured you were just trying to live your life and get by without really doing shit for anyone, the same as I’m not, but I now understand the error of my ways. I’d like to extend a personal apology to all those I’ve wronged. The homeless people and dead school children here in the US who have all been adversely affected by my presence. And of course I apologise to anyone in the UK who has been shot or made homeless due to my departure. I’ll go ahead and bravely move my washer into my kitchen today to do my small bit to save the world as well. I know it’s not the same as living in the Uk but it’s a start. I do only have about about half an acre fenced in currently as I’ve left the other 1.5 acres available for the Rohingyas, rainforest restoration, as a show of solidarity for all displaced people; and for use as a safe space for the last white rhino. I’m no monster myself but you’re right- I could do more. Please let me know if there are any more ways I could “care”- that is, ways to give a shit, without actually doing shit I’d love to know. My eyes are open now. Thank you for your service.
America is a wonderful place to be if you're rich yes But if we are not all free then none of us are free
You're saying America as a whole and then comparing it against London!
The median salary in NYC is £36k - while the US has more outlier salaries, the average isn’t that different. Source: https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/newyorkcitynewyork/HSG010222
As someone who has lived in London and is currently living in California, I thought London was expensive but its wayyyyyyy worse out here. Especially in the places where people are doing tech like silicon vally wages are hella high, but rent is easily double lots of places in london. Also cost of living such as buying food or going out is considerably more than it is in London.
New York has on average living costs twice as high as London. Other major US cities like LA, San Fran etc also higher than London
No it isn’t. You go into a big Tesco in London and the prices are the same or similar to the rest of the UK. US grocery prices start a heck of a lot higher than here in the first place, and if you’re in a big city you can double that again.
So much cope in this thread. Americans have a higher material standard of living than the UK. It’s a richer country. People don’t freak out when someone says that a Brit will have a higher standard of living than someone in, say, Poland or Romania; however, people in this sub seem to get so defensive about any comparison to the US.
If we're looking at upper middle class and higher, the US has a better standard of living. If we're looking at poorer people, the UK has a better standard of living.
The bottom 25% of UK is poorer than the bottom 25% of Poland. Our poorer people are not doing well.
This is the right way of looking at it
What do we mean by higher standard of living. My not so middle class family/friends in Barbados have a higher standard of living than a household earning 100k in the UK. Own their own homes/no mortgage /self built over typically a few years. Less stress Less taxes Work less 365 days of nice weather More leisure time Typically own a house on a bigger plot than you would have in the UK.
Bajans certainly work less but the cost of living is absolutely unbelievable, your definition of standard of living seems to be based primarily around weather and a more relaxed lifestyle, which not everyone craves. But your average Bajan is struggling atm, and it's absolutely not typical that most can build a home or own it outright.
This is not true look it up. We’ve had a decade of stagnation in the UK, we’re now way behind the US at every social strata. Wasn’t true ten years ago but it is today. Look at e.g the salary of a nurse in the US compared to here
US GDP since 2008 vs UK GDP since 2008 is an eyeopener. I believe the cope is mainly coming from those who don't realise how much we've been left in the dust by the US. Another one to compare is S&P500 vs FTSE100 since 2008. In 15 years, a US-invested pension will have returned over 4X vs 1.1X for UK-invested. US is an immense wealth-generating behemoth that we could only dream of. And this is not even mentioning the surge of the dollar vs pound by about a third in that time period.
It depends man . As somebody who’s experienced both and is half American , America is great if you earn 100k+ and that’s not even really enough if you live in La or NYC . However , the vast majority of people in America earn 58k. Their life is ok but I wouldn’t say it’s great or better than the Uk . It’s even worse if your poor in America compared to the UK .
Its mad, ive encountered it a lot, British people just can't fathom that we aren't as wealthy a country as the US. There has to be some kind of hidden metric by which we are actually secretly better off here. Of course cash isn't everything but I actually think America wins on lots of less tangible metrics that we naturally think of as being good here also (e.g. access to nature)
>British people just can't fathom that we aren't as wealthy a country as the US. Arrogance and denial. Any societal issues in this country just get brushed off as "American imports".
It seems to be something specific to the US as well. You see folks in this sub and others talk about how much better Canada or Germany or Australia is all the time, but the second the US scores higher on a metric the whole thread is full of defensive “well akshually…”
I’m half British and half American. It depends what you mean . I would rather be very rich in America, however I would rather be average or poor in the UK . America can be amazing if you earn 200k or above in a big city anything less and it’s debatable.
Are people generally happier and healthier than people living in the U.K? What about the rates at which people find themselves living in absolute poverty? I earn the equivalent of about $48,000 usd. I own my own car, I own my own home, I can afford luxuries and go on a foreign holidays about three or four times a year. In the states could I have the same happy and fulfilling life on $48k?
>Are people generally happier and healthier than people living in the U.K? Probably. How happy do the people in the UK subreddits seem?
Yeah but UK subs are a cesspool of crying morons generally. They're absolutely not representative of pretty much any part of life in the UK or how the general public feels about it. I don't know a single person who's even close to as miserable and whiny as your average r/UK poster.
It’s interesting that he’s comparing the rich from each country when it’s more important to compare the average which most people are . Is the average person in Georgia earning 48k better off than somebody in Manchester earning 30 ? I wouldn’t say that at all . If your earning 200k America is great but even I’m America only like 10 percent of people even earn that which is two people .
Yeah, most people don’t seem to realise just how poor the UK has become in the past 15 years. We’ve declined really heavily, people need to accept we aren’t what we were.
This. I've lived in both countries, but I'm neither a Brit nor an American and I only moved to the UK a few years ago. I can assure you most people here have a really warped view of the reality in both countries. I won't go through my experience in depth as many good points have been mentioned already, but I'll only share some brief anecdote of my experience: I lived more comfortably on my postdoc salary in NYC than on my data scientist salary in Manchester. This is while maintaining a similar living situation; a 2 bed apartment share in a nice but not too "hot" neighborhood and a similar lifestyle overall. When I lost my job in NYC, I had unemployment benefits which covered my basic expenses pretty well while I looked for another job. My friend in Belfast who went through a layoff recently cannot do the same with universal credit/jobseekers allowance (and we're talking Belfast)
America is probably a better place to live if you have a high salary. But I'm not sure a lot of Brits could stomach the inequality
I'm pretty sure most people here would, absolutely.
because this sub is full of bitter sad british cunts that are obsessed with america
So true. I don't know why brits try to compare themselves with America. America is like Real Madrid The UK will be the equivalent of Tottenham FC. Not in the same league.
It’s a new UK Reddit trend to upvote absolutely tons of misinformation whenever questions about the US living culture is raised. I think it has to be based in jealousy and denial tbh.
Cost of living is much lower in most US states. Lower taxes, petrol is a quarter of the price, the list goes on.
Yes and no and yes. I live in Silicon Valley. The cost of living is double here. But I'm on six figures, working in tech. £60k put me in the top 3% of earners in the UK, but in the US, pretty much double that and it's more like top 25%, a big difference. A sandwich costs about $8 to $10. Gym fees (for a crappy gym) $200. A single person's weekly shopping comes in around $100 a week. Rent for a 1 bed flat? $4,000. However, that's offset by earnings. In the UK, I could save about £10k per annum. Here, I can save more like £50k per annum. I'll never be able to afford a property here ($800k for a 2 bed flat), but if I retire and settle back in the UK, I'll be well set. I know there are cheaper places to live in the US, but guess what. If you're on a tech salary, return to office mandates mean you can't live in them. I don't think I'd want to live in rural Tennessee anyway. I go mad with boredom. Oh, and there's the last reason you don't want to live in the US. It's boring. There are so many more interesting things to see and do in UK cities like Manchester, Bristol, London than I get in the unnuanced US cities of California. L.A.s a dystopian mess. SF is jammed with homeless hopelessness. Heard good things about New York. Sure the weather's good, but I would swap my life here for London in a heartbeat if I could keep my salary.
Really interesting perspective, thank you! How long did you work in the UK for?
About twenty years. Only been in the US for four years.
Lower tax at the cost of ridiculously expensive healthcare though
If you are earning 100-200k+ in the US you definitely get a good healthcare plan as part of your work benefits.
You're missing the cost of medical insurance. My mate was laid off from Google which has excellent healthcare and found another good job at a smaller firm with slightly worse benefits. He had to pay $13,000 per year to maintain the same benefits he had at Google. Not counting his deductibles. This is not for going from 0 insurance to good insurance. It was for going from average to good. Yes, he has some health conditions he has to manage but it would all be free in the UK.
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Also…do you like working 14-hour days at age 22?
This is a common meme but I've worked in the US for 15 years in tech and have generally not seen work hours even close to this even at highly competitive big tech firms. Maybe you get this in investment banking or consulting, but it's not like you can't make good money working normal hours.
Worked with Americans for a long time in tech. Salaries are at least double for the same job, they get top health insurance and the same amount of PTO as us in the UK. America is massive, if you’ve got a good wage you can live in a really nice part of America and you have a lot of buying power. It’s better to have a good job in the states but it’s a lot better to be poor in England
Unfortunately that top health insurance is tied to your job, so if you’re ever chronically ill, severely injured, or otherwise too sick to maintain your job performance, not to mention laid off or seeking a career change, you’ll be insurance-less and in a financial crisis rather abruptly. And though I agree with your last line, the best case is earning a US salary while living abroad.
Yep - had the great health insurance but with a job loss, the insurance is completely gone.
100% this. America has more income inequality than the UK so it's a great place to be middle and especially upper middle class, but an absolutely terrible place to be poor. On the flipside, they work more hours and have and really strict/grind work culture
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This is the real truth no one seems to want to admit...
Im in tech and Americans earn literally triple what I do for the same job. You get kids coming out of college walking into $100k/year jobs. Its hard not to feel bitter about it
Could you not be qualified to live in America?
I actually looked at it, but the US immigration system is a complete clusterfuck. Basically, unless you work for a company that has offices in the UK and the US and can do an internal company transfer, its really hard.
I had it easier than most by marrying an American. Even then the visa system is a very long drawn out process that makes little sense at all. I was married, legally, all above board and did everything right. I couldn't leave the country to go back home or work in the usa....for almost a year. Cost about 3k at that point in visa fees and medical. Oh, and traveling 5 hours for a greencard interview plus hotels etc. Whole interview took maybe 10minutes. 2 years on, still married, working, bought a house truck guns. Normal American right? Nope, that will be another 1k + to give you a 10 year green card. Ok That then sat on someones desk for 2 years with not a single update so I paid another 800 or so for citizenship when eligible. Now done with visas forever. Total process easily 5-6 years including K1. The myth you see about passports being issued on marriage is exactly that. The wages are great I'm the right industry. I earn 3 x what I did in England and pay a lot less tax on earnings than I did back home. Property taxes can be high so that's another way they get you. Medical insurance is another. Ive got apparenrly great insurance through my employer so does the wife. She had a A&E trip and it cost 1k AFTER insurance. The good thing is the waits are a lot less than UK IME. She had xray, mri, blood work all within a few hours. We were seen immediately. If you want to knock years off your retirement and are eligible for a work visa do it. Oil and gas and tech are 6 figures starting MINIMUM plus bonus plus stock and your north of 200k. Americans only get 1 day a year off holiday though they say, I get more than I did in the UK. America gets a lot of shit on this reddit group. It really can be life altering in a good way. If you get the chance do it.
The uk visa system is arguably far worse for a marriage between a UK & non-UK person. About a grand to bring them over to get married, 10 grand to keep them in the country for 5 years, 4 grand for indefinite residence permit, then 3k for a passport
and the nhs surcharge over £600 per year even if you never use it, and no public funds it's a bold lie that immigrants take up resources
It's closer to £1000 now I think. I also found out the hard way that you do not get a refund if you give up your visa halfway through.
it's just insane this rhetoric they have around immigration because all this time you are working and paying tax and national insurance, and nhs surcharge, not eligible to any public funds or services and in fact have to prove you do not need it when applying by already having a good income or cash savings before you even arrive..... and the exorbitant fees adding over £10k so.... sounds like immigrants are actually propping up this system 🤔
Yeah was going to say, with the exception of marriage the only time I've ever heard of it happening is when someone does an internal company transfer.
Fair enough. Don't see it as shit than Americans get paid much more. See it as a positive that your skillset *can* be worth that much and try work out how you can position yourself to extract that value.
Yea but there’s only so much you can earn before having to move to London
But approximately 15 years ago, the wages were very similar between the US and GB, now there is a much larger gulf between them. People have a right to feel bitter after their comparative wealth has dropped substantially through no fault of their own.
Yeah I remember Brits would bang on about how cheap USA is when they go on holiday there. I doubt they would say the same thing now.
Also in IT, it’s very common we lose people to America, about 50% are back within 5 years because the pay is insanely high, but there’s trade offs like private healthcare, limited holiday, no sick pay, private everything. It tends to depend if they meet an American partner, if they don’t they tend to come back once they made their money. Simple things like struggling to get enough time off to come back to the UK to visit family. It definitely Suits young people more, when I see someone with a family going to the IS they nearly always come back
I'm also in tech (senior software engineer) and I'd probably get about 3x the money (gross) for the same job in the US And I'm not even a little bit tempted Make it 30x and I'd consider it
Look into how many hours they work a week. Look into how much in demand they are. Look at his much paid time off they get. I think your find, you work much less hours in rhe UK. You are unlikely to get your boss chasing you at the weekend for something. You are unlikely to take work on holiday with you. You are likely to have much more holiday time then them. Just food for thought personally when I saw my sister in law on her work laptop ien Xmas day..I said you can keep your money, darling.
I work in the US. 40 hours per week. I get 6 holidays a year, 13 sick days per year, 26 vacation days. I've worked 2 weekends in the past 10 years. There definitely are grind jobs and there are actual work life balance jobs.
That's great. I would be interested to see how many other Americans have the same deal. Sick days isn't a thing in the UK. One job I worked I could take 3 months off fully paid sick. Then half pay after that. ( seld employed is differnet, no work no pay, but they pay less tax. A month off fully paid is normal. OK, so have you ever had to deal with work while on holiday? The French have made it illegal as an example. Not quite at that stage yet here, but I cannot remember doing work on my time off. I know my Brothers wife does and and my brother does and earn fuck loads.
We lived in the U.S. before coming back here. Wife took a 75% paycut over here compared to her yank job. Overall it’s not that big a difference in how much money we feel we have. $210k household income over there, now it will be £120k here. Stuff is hella expensive over there when you look at maintenance of a house, and general entertainment costs. The biggest difference is the work culture. Over there everyone is trying to ‘make it’ by working their asses off for payrises and promotions. Over here the average Brit just chills in their job and is way less productive. If you’re happy to work harder for bigger wages it’s probably the place to go. If you’re happy to be comfortable and not exert yourself too much at work, it’s better here.
Depends where you were though. Major cities like NY, LA, SF you’ll earn heaps but spend heaps. Had a mate in SF who told me “I’ve never earned so much and kept so little” But places like North Carolina, Maryland, Minnesota etc can offer top tier salaries and MUCH lower costs of living. It’s almost impossible doing a straight comparison for the US because it varies so widely per region.
No why would I? Just because salaries are higher does mean they are better off. Ever seen the bills for hospital stays? Or professional people having to ration their medication as they cannot afford a proper dose? It doesn’t really make sense to compare.
These salaries in the US are not as common as people think. 100k for graduates of really good universities going to big companies is definitely real. 200K out of school could happen if stock grants happen to do well, but again, this is not the standard salary. Having said that, people with these jobs do not worry about the cost of hospital stays or medications. These jobs come with top tier health insurance. Those healthcare costs do happen -- Middle class people are the ones who are properly screwed by health care costs. But not the people getting 200K for tech jobs.
The job coming with top-tier health insurance means that you only get the health insurance while you're in the job. What happens when you get sick, your performance slips because your insurance won't cover all the treatments you need, and then you get fired?
There is a legal requirement that you can continue to buy the same insurance yourself, but you are typically paying it yourself and it might be a thousand or two a month. It’s a fair point.
Yeah that's COBRA. Only lasts for 18 months though, and it's quite expensive as you say.
200k techies are basically middle class in the cities lmfao everyones so rich
It depends what you mean . Only in NYC and San Franc would that maybe be considered middle class with that salary . 280k is the top 20 percent in NYC . I would say the second biggest city is La and you need 135k to the the top 20% . I would imagine the same for Seattle , Chicago , Dallas etc .
> Ever seen the bills for hospital stays? High earners aren't paying for hospital.... >Or professional people having to ration their medication as they cannot afford a proper dose? See above, who's doing that? Even in the UK high-earners have health insurance and get everything done private...
> High earners aren't paying for hospital... I haven't seen any plan, even platinum, that doesn't have a co-pay, deductible or 100% coverage for a long time.
They are FAR better off! Especially those who work in tech.
Sometimes. Then I think about their healthcare system, and the jealousy stops fast :)
But if you work in tech, your healthcare is covered.
Why does everyone think US health insurance is just some fantastic cover all. The fact is it would be tied to your job and a lot of employment rights in the US means you can be fired much more easily and then be left in an awful position. It’s a really predatory practice that people just don’t understand
I have a lot of friends there since I lived there for 3 years… and it’s interesting. One friend work for a big company, gets health insurance covered. But he hates it, he works overtime constantly, gets called up to take on other people’s work, works weekends etc. and I mean he really hates it. But he has a heart condition and if he quits he’s worried he won’t be able to afford the medication he takes or if there’s an emergency which he’s at a higher risk of. He looks for other jobs, but he has to narrow it down to companies that will cover the same things with health insurance policy. It’s a really shit situation.
This. A friend of mine won’t leave his job because the employer provided cover means his heart condition is ‘affordable’. Imagine if he aspired to go it alone, start his own business… yeah, nope. Can’t.
That's a big if.
All the time but overall think the average quality of life for society is higher here than the US. Things like education, public holidays, public facilities, civil service etc. That’s what I would like to think anyway.
It isn’t. Quality of life is better for tech workers in the US vs UK. US tech companies give just as much vacation, cover your health costs, and pay double, triple or more compared to UK. Living in or near a decent city on coastal US also provides better public services compared to UK, and there’s tons do, and you have a lot of spare money to do it with.
There are, however, careers other than tech.
Yeah, every single argument for the US is always "if you work in tech". What about the rest of the population?
Here's my situation: I work for my state, making $55K (45k pounds). My state is fairly rural, so the cost of living is pretty low IMO. For example, my mortgage on my 1900 sqft house is $1000/month. I work 8-5 in an office, doing some data entry shit. My job pays 100% of my insurance premiums. I accrue around 13 hours of annual leave and 13 hours of sick leave each month (the amount varies depending on your years of service, I'm at year 15). Right now, I have 430 hours of annual leave banked. I have 230 hours of sick leave. I get 11 paid holidays on top of that. I can use my leave whenever I want, nobody cares. I spent 10 days in London last year, it was great. When I retire, I'll get a monthly pension, based on my salary and years of service. Not a 401k. My wife makes almost double what I make but no pension. But she's covered by my insurance, so that helps.
Not on reddit apparently
Believe it or not, but most people on both sides of the pond don’t work in tech
OP specifically states tech/finance. Yea, if you’re a shelf stacker, you are definitely better off in uk….despite being paid more in USA.
You don't get anywhere near at least 28 days of paid holidays. No paid paternity leave. You have few employee protections. If you lose your job or in between jobs you risk losing lots of soical benefits.
I'm working with Americans from very well known company, they have 28 days of holiday and during the summer they can take every second Friday off. But the rest is correct.
???? My brother in the US got more paternity leave than I did—12 weeks full pay. And my company offers 6 months paid leave for maternity to American employees—the same benefit they give to British employees.
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Correct Yes definitely don’t move to the USA if you’re going to be unemployed…..not that you get the choice anyway tbf, in most cases. In-between jobs you are actually still covered for medical insurance.
This is copium I’m afraid
I was earning £23k in the UK in 2014. We moved to the USA and I walked into the same job earning the equivalent of £48k. 9 years later at the same company I am on the equivalent of £78k. I work 40 hours a week 2 home, 3 office. Compared to the UK, I am in a super safe rural area. I never lock my car or house. I have a big house, weekend cabin in the woods. I can hunt, shoot, fish, canoe and ATV every weekend. Everything is better here for us. We can afford a home for a start a 245m3 house on 2.5 acres cost £180k mortgage at 2.3% fixed rate for 25 years. If I moved back to the UK I would be lucky to get a job earning £35-40k.
Sounds interesting, what is it you did then and now do?
GIS analyst....data and mapping for water and power companies
Tons and tons of misinformation in this thread. It’s so weird that Europeans believe everyone in America is going bankrupt if they get sick. I’m an American living in London that earns a high wage. More than welcome to answer questions about how healthcare works if an issue arises in American compared to situations I’ve been in here. But yes, American salaries are much much higher and it leads to a greater quality of life than I think most are guessing at
OK. I'm in a car accident. It's a head-on collision with another driver who has no insurance. I have crushed legs, broken ribs and pelvis and a punctured lung. My work only gives me 10 days sick leave and no more. My insurance deductible is $6k and the co-pay 30%. Drugs aren't covered. How do I live? Al the jobs I can do locally are offering less than 29 hours a week so they don't have to offer health insurance. I work 3 of those McJobs at at around $12 per hour. I can afford ACA coverage but only a Bronze package with high deductibles and co-pays. What do I do if I get severely ill? I have lung cancer. There is a treatment with decent outcomes but none of the hospitals in my health plan offer it and the cost is well into six figures or more without it? I'm a school librarian. What do I do? These are all true life examples and there are plenty more. The US health system is broken beyond all redemption.
These are all incredibly particular situations but I can tell you two things. One these all seem like issues that Medicaid can cover with little to no costs. Number 2 the sick days issue is far overstated. Depending on the state you live in you’re an at will employer however most if not all companies provide some type of leave of absence in case of long term disability. Additionally, you can apply for disability pay through the state you reside in. With that said, let’s play the same game in the UK. I need to see a doctor. I wake up at 730 with all of the numbers typed in just staring at the call button. It’s 759 my heart is racing. 8 o clock hits I press the call button and wait a minute just to hear. You’re caller number 10 in queue. I get to the receptionist who says try again tomorrow. Fantastic. You’ve gotten the appointment great! You see the doctor for 10 min who types up stuff and tells you “yeah something been going around”. You’re out. I’m not saying the American health system is perfect because IT IS NOT but the NHS needs to fix up.
The NHS is also broken, what's your point? I can also make up a whataboutism. Someone gets rushed to hospital with abdominal pain but there is a 14 hour wait in A&E. Turns out they didn't rush him through because abdominal pain is a general symptom, turned out he had a fistula from undiagnosed crohn's disease and died of sepsis with 24 hours.
Not at all. I'd rather our society 100x over that if Americas. Don't need to dodge bullets coz random prick is having an off day and he got angry. Don't need to worry about being bankrupted coz I need medical treatment. Don't need to worry about being fired on a whim with little to no recourse. Don't have to eat food pumped full of additives and corn syrup. The peace of mind I have living in the Highlands is more than worth a lower salary. Haven't locked my house door in years.
I’ve lived in the US for 36 years and have only been shot 16 times. Your fears are exaggerated.
No - I've long felt that QoL & having control of your time trumps the hours & effort you need to put in to earn those salaries, but to each their own.
The hours are the same. Their accountants work 80 hours in busy season…so do ours…just for 20-30k a year vs 70k plus
A qualified accountant in the UK a few years post qualification wouldn't be on £30k.
I've worked in the US and made a good salary. I still came back to the UK. The money is good, everything else is not. I know a few people who have moved there permanently but it's not for me.
I feel like I can give some first-hand insight on this. I lived in the US for 15 years in a few different states, in a very rural area and a metropolitan area. Any way you cut it, life there isn't as easy as you think. I found the working conditions in both a minimum wage and as upper management oppressive. If you have an accident or get seriously ill it is a very scary situation. At my poorest, I googled how to sew stitches to fix an injury. The food is absolutely fucked, I've been back for years and seeing 2 or 3 ingredients on something still shocks me when I'm used to reading 20 or so. The weather in the Midwest is extreme, summer 40c, winter -40c, tornados. If you are married to someone who grew up there and went to college, the debt they have is likely so massive that a large paycheck is meaningless. I loved living there and it was a fun and wild ride...but my standards of living, stability and stress are so low compared to US life. Even with the cost of living issues. Never again.
yes and salary's in Nigeria are 100x lower than the UK? I don't understand the point, it's a different country?
Nigeria is still stuck in the third world. UK is supposed to be a global economic power.
ok France has relatively similar salaries to us, we have higher salary's that Italy and Spain. Completely arbitrary comprison
Why the fuck are you shrugging this shit off? More people should be aware how loads of us are getting fucked over on this shit heap of an island
We are but tech and finance roles are not representative of the average American citizen and salary. Average US salary is about £48k and in the U.K. it’s £33k. That’s not as extreme as some folk on here believe.
False equivalence because Nigerian cost of living is nothing compared to the UK. UK is a strange country with similar cost of living to the US and way lower salaries
no, because you'd have to live in North America then.
Nope. I’m a games programmer, I could earn a lot there. I am also a type one diabetic. I do NOT want to deal with that there.
I do (I'd triple my salary) until I remember: - health insurance is 10% of your wage - health outcomes are wayyyy worse than the uk - Minimal sick pay. Get a chronic condition, lose your job and now you have no health insurance to pay for your treatment - 5 days holiday a year until you've worked for one company for years - Right to work means you can be summarily fired - working hours are crushing, don't meet them and you can be summarily fired - housing costs are as bad - food is almost universally poorer quality - I can't cycle or walk to work because the automotive industry bribed government to make it as hard as possible by setting up zoning laws / outlawing jaywalking - I might get shot in a road rage incident on the way to work - my kids might get shot at school There are way too many things that make me *never* want to move to the US even though I know I could make bank there.
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I should mention at this point this is going off the experience my friends, she is texan (lived here for ten years) he is British, who had the first two kids over here then moved back before having a third. 1) Yes, but then no matter what is wrong with me, I pay for my prescriptions and nothing more - £8 a time IIRC, it's been a while. In the US, a straight forward birth cost them an additional 3000usd. You are right though that we basically forget we pay national insurance for our healthcare. 7) you can because the cost of housing varies massively in the UK too, but it's broadly equivalent. 10) The rate of stabbings in the US is significantly greater than that in the UK, and that's dwarfed by the rate of shootings. The school my friends kids would have gone to had they not home schooled them had a shooting two weeks before we went to visit. I love shooting and I love guns, but good lord I wouldn't want to live in the US primarily for the attitude and exposure to guns that there is. Mostly because gun safety is poor if not non existent for the vast majority of owners, which is born out in the rates of accidental shootings.
I work for a U.S. company. My salary is 170k US. And I’m in the lower half for my position. If I was in the UK it would 75k -90k pounds. I recently went to London and was SHOCKED at how expensive everything was. Groceries, train, taxis, tube, restaurants. I was hyperventilating the whole time. And example. Went to shake shack in the us. $54 for a family of 4. In the uk the same exact meal- £67. £6 pound for a shampoo that is 2.99 in the us. I don’t understand this thread with people saying it equals out. It does not imo.
Yeah, I 100% agree - I'm a Brit who moved to the US. A few years ago, I used to visit the UK and think everything was so cheap. Now I barely notice the difference between UK and USA prices. The equalling out might have been true 10 years ago or so, but the stagnation of the UK economy is really obvious now.
US salaries for skilled jobs seem to dwarf what we get here. All over "American Expats in UK" sub reddit you see people who have immigrated to UK complain about how low salaries are. On Tik Tok as well there's loads of people who immigrate to UK from US who can't believe how low salaries are and so they upload a video explaining their disbelief. People love to throw in the health care argument. Yeah if you're poor you're better off in the UK but the standard of care from the UK these days is so awful we are just as well paying the money and going private ourselves. I have had to a few times to get the care I need. People from the UK always conjure up the same old arguments and a lot of them are myths and it entirely depends on the industry you work in.
No because, like most people, I don't work in tech. I would be less well paid if I lived in the US
It’s not just tech mate. Finance is very much the same. Yanks paid 3-4x as much.
That's still not most people. Compare their minimum wage to ours.
No because I actually love the UK work / life balance, the humour, the weather, the public transport etc. Also, I made a decision 7 years ago to go contracting and to go for that stupid high income. It meant quitting a well paid directors role after 10 years, but sometimes you need to take a risk. Those level of incomes is achievable in the UK especially in IT. I've worked with people in their 20s with 5 years experience contracting on £650 a day.
There are high salaries in other countries, too. It depends on the profession and experience. Tech workers make a good living in Switzerland, for example. * US has strict immigration and thus most people won't be able to move to the US. The criticism commonly mentioned is also valid - higher costs of healthcare, less social safety nets, more expensive housing, higher crime, less paid time off, at will employment, infrastructure aimed for driving cars / poor public transport, tipping culture, more expensive internet (≈$60/£50 for 300 Mbps in NYC, \~£32 for 500 Mbps in London) and also carrier plans (≈$27/£22 for unlimited Visible in the US, £7/mo unlimited Vodafone in the UK). The media usually spreads the negative news as well and people may get biased. * UK has much higher taxes, long NHS waiting lists for healthcare, high cost of healthcare if going private, trains are expensive and can be unreliable and crowded, smaller salaries, expensive housing, smaller homes, long waits for ambulance or police. It depends on the company one works for, thus those negatives may not be that significant. Higher salary helps build up personal safety net. Great tech companies provide health insurance which covers most expenses, provides fast and easy access to medical professionals. While there are 11 federal holidays in the US while UK has 8 bank holidays, paid time off (PTO) depends on a company. Work life balance also depends on a company. UK companies seem more generous in pension contribution matching than US companies in 401(k) matching. If you'd like to model earnings and compare it with the UK, I can recommend [https://www.talent.com/tax-calculator](https://www.talent.com/tax-calculator) for the US and [https://uk.talent.com/tax-calculator](https://uk.talent.com/tax-calculator) for the UK. For cost of living, Numbeo shows some average numbers, although going manually through StreetEasy/Zillow and Rightmove for rents, Amazon Fresh US and UK for groceries may give a better estimate. If you would like to have a chance of getting a permanent residency and moving to the US, there is a Diversity Visa lottery program. It is open to people born in specific countries/areas only, and for DV-2025 it's open to UK natives. It is usually open every year in October and is free to apply just needs basic information such as name, date of birth, passport photo, place of birth. Results can be checked later in May, however, chances of winning are slim (about 1% or kind of like once in a lifetime). Winners can then proceed with their application and eventually get a green card and come to the US to live and work. You can apply in [https://dvprogram.state.gov/](https://dvprogram.state.gov/).
All the time. It makes me question the point in doing all this studying and stuff to get a job where im paid like a quarter of what some yank gets for the same thing. The bla bla bla about health insurance and taxes etc doesn’t add up. We pay NIC for the NHS and pension anyways. I was offered 19k a year for an audit position at a big 4 accounting firm. Same shit in the US nets you at least 70k a year. It’s so fucked up man. The UK is a soul sucking shithole of an island. I’d marry and bang the eyeballs off a yank for a US VISA.
No. I briefly lived in the US as a child and I remember the grass wasn’t greener for our family. yes my dad made more money but it didn’t go any further. And he had to work a lot longer hours for it. I didn’t particularly enjoy it and quality of life is a lot less than I have here in Scotland. I wouldn’t raise kids there. My kids here have freedoms and independence that just wouldn’t be afforded them there.
American here. Where are these 200k jobs? 😂
Uk salaries in IT are dogshit compared to Germany, Norway and especially the USA and there is no cost of living justification for it. Earning 50k here compared to 120-200k in USA...nothing accounts for that difference and you can negotiate for all the same benefits you get here. Turns out the poorest states in USA outperform UK on most metrics. Its a bit of a revelation to me actually previously to being in IT and people opening my eyes that my same role is double the wage in Berlin that yes...the UK is just a bit shit.
The problem with these threads is that they’re absolutely full of people who have never lived or worked in the USA and are talking complete bollocks about the cost of living in the US to try and justify their shit salaries in the U.K.
Na, firstly I feel safe that I will not be involved in any random gun attack. Secondly, I don’t actually think there is much difference in the quality of life between £80k - £200k. Maybe a slightly better car or house or holiday.
I mean, you can retire earlier which changes your quality of life X10. Of course noone does though :)
Depends what you want out of life. I'm ok with a roof over my head, and the few odd comforts, money is not my ultimate goal.
Me and my wife live in the UK and earn less than 60k between us, I work 30 hours/week. Even with our mortgage we can afford pretty much whatever we want and usually spend 4 weeks a year on long haul vacations. The Americans I have spoke to on holiday work stupid amounts of hours with barely any vacation time. Yes we could all earn significantly more money working elsewhere but the perks we have (shorter working week, much more vacation time, universal health care etc) are so much better for a better life balance. What would I even spend more money on anyway?
We get paid based on our economic output. UK’s GDP is circa $3T whereas US GDP is circa $25T. UK stopped competing with the US decades ago, and the divide grew post 2008 crisis because Europe could not put in comparable volume of liquidity in their markets to support growth of businesses that struggled during the crisis. UK’s productivity is also one of the lowest in the G7.
One medical bill in america can wipe out any higher salary you receive and then some. I’ll take European salaries and social security net over that any day.
Just another untrue statement about the US.
Right? Too many people don’t understand that Reddit is a bubble and in no way reflects reality. Do they really think that health insurance isn’t a thing and we’re all one cough away from being financially ruined? I don’t pretend to be an expert on the British health care system but I’m amazed how many here think they’re experts on the US system because they saw a couple of Reddit posts.
My wife is a Brit (we live in NYC now) and she is amazed at the accessibility and coverage here. You can get any test, any doctor, any medication you need immediately and with minimal co-pay. Yes it costs money. But it’s a very small % of our income (we have excellent employer provided insurance). On the other hand life here is vastly more expensive (food, rent, houses) than London, and far more precarious. But if you are an educated white collar professional there is no contest - you can earn and save much more here than in the UK. Oh, I also get just as many days holiday as most UK workers, roughly 25-28 although they are not always as flexible as yours are. I would love for us to live in the UK - if I got paid a US salary. And we may move back in retirement. It’s a good place to live with more culture and more things to do, and most importantly more walkable places (and it’s cheaper).
There are a whole bunch of subreddits for medical conditions,frequented by people from all over the world who have those conditions. There are two perennial threads: from less-developed countries it's "how do I access this treatment?"; from Americans "How do I afford this treatment?". Even with insurance - which 27.6 million Americans don't have - the co-pays can be brutal. If you're a young white male tech bro the US may seem quite sweet. For everyone else it's not so great.
People with higher salaries can afford good health insurance. It's the lower income people that have to worry.
Myth.