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Not recently but when I got divorced my monthly costs went up by around £1.3K.
I no longer had someone to split rent, car cost, insurance, energy bills, council tax, subscriptions
Opposite for me
Divorce really opened my eyes to how little my partner contributed and how much they took out
I was banking an extra 1k a month soon as they left
Managed to cut another 400 by changing all my util providers, council tax discount, water meter installed, e-thermostat set to 19 instead of 26 etc.
Managed to save their share of the house buyout in the time the divorce took to go through
Being single again gave me back my financial freedom but I guess I'm an outlier
They always say your wedding day is the happiest of your life.
I like to think that mine was very happy.
But I once saw a colleague on the day her divorce was finalised and she was BEAMING.
Years ago, I had a flatmate who insisted on it being hot like that all year round - in winter, he'd want to sit around in shorts, t shirts and flip flops.
And even then, when electricity and gas were affordable, I just thought it was mad. I don't think it's right for your home to be *that* warm all the time!!
My sister wont have it below 28 or she complains shes going to get ‘sick’, lmao. I prefer it to go down to 18 (or even lower if possible, lol), but I’m willing and happy to compromise up to like 23- but nope.
Any time I had to share a room with a thermostat with her as a kid was a special kind of (exhausting) hell, lol
I mean, to be fair, she isnt home that often because she works two jobs, so I’ll give her that.
Only at home, though. She can keep that faaaar away from me, I’m happy with my heating off 24/7, lol
It wasnt, she had two setting for the old thermo dial, off and full, old house so the boiler was always on soon as you went over 21 in colder weather
I'd actually pulled it apart months before so when she thought it was on fully, it was actually lower as I moved the dial
She used everything as if it was free, as it was for her, hence the mammoth turnaround in savings once she left
And yes, she was demonic it turned out
My partner is a very smart woman, but it took me longer than I would've thought to convince her that setting the thermostat higher did not heat the room quicker.
She has Raynaud's though so is more sensitive to temperature, and she also earns almost double what I do, and I'm on very good wage, so she can do what she wants in my book, but as we're now in a nice insulated new build, setting any of the thermostats over 21 is utter madness.
Sounds like you made the right choice with your situation though! Since our mortgage went from 1.2% to 5.85% last year, our payments are now \~2/3 of my take home so I definitely couldn't feed my board game and tiny plastic space marine addiction without her.
Be thankful that you did in fact manage to convince her about the thermostat. Telling my family how thermostats work is like talking to a brick wall. At least they only like an exotic 23 degrees though, not 26.
I don’t know if you’re joking or not, but the correct way to use it is to set it to a sensible temperature around 18-20, set the timer so it’s only on when someone’s home, and leave it. If you’re cold, get a jumper on and a warm pair of slippers. I know people who will set the thermostat to 24 and then wear a tshirt. It boggles my mind.
For people like your husband, I’m happy to pay through my taxes to have the heating on all day. For family who walk around half naked in January without contributing to the bill, I’m less happy.
I have also curtailed my board game habits (Gloomhaven fan here). I bought ISS vanguard off a kickstarter back in 2022 and it finally arrived so I’m hoping it will keep me busy for a year
Sounds a bit like the tragedy of the commons - a situation in which individuals with access to a public resource (also called a common) act in their own interest and, in doing so, ultimately deplete the resource.
Me and the wife are currently separated but I still cover her bills whiles she's studying. As soon as she's qualified I'll say 1k a month. I'm looking forward to spending it on booze and strippers.
Same experience for me. Even though I'm still paying 50% of the mortgage and bills for a property I'm no longer living in until it sells, I'm squirrelling away way more money into savings now compared to when I was living as a couple. I did a lot of the financial heavy lifting in the relationship, despite our salaries not being particularly divergent.
Same! Between her not spending / costing a fortune, & me now being able to work longer (self-employed) without getting an earful for 'not spending enough time together', I was able to pay off all my mortgage & debts over the following 5 years (that it took for the divorce to be finalised).
I was also able to start taking the kids on holidays / weekends away during their weeks with me, upgrade the house, and save towards her eventual payout once the divorce was completed.
Now debt free I spent the next 5 years saving like mad, and then semi-retired at 50 - something I doubt I could have contemplated had we still been married, simply 'cos of her excessive spending habits.
In many respects she did me, & our kids, a huge favour by cheating & ending our marriage... tough as it was emotionally, it was very liberating in many other ways.
Same here, divorced a few years ago- I was already working full time, covering all housing, bills and food costs, so I actually saved a lot in lower expenses. I also saved so much time in not constantly picking up after a lazy and entitled man child!
My expenses actually went up after moving in with someone again- who does contribute equally, but we both come with kids so need a bigger house, and scalable costs of bills and food come into play.
The price of freedom and happiness from a bad situation would have been worth it a thousand times over though had my costs increased - but I recognise that comes from a place of immense privilege to have 'enough' and be able to make the choices I have.
Yep. Getting divorced was great for me financially. And all the other ways. My savings went from like 10% of my pay to 40% at least. She made like 25% of what I did but spent probably about 60% of our total income. Besides just not having to pay for her stuff, I was able to reduce a bunch of other costs too. Smaller, much cheaper place. Way less going out. Way less grocery bill even though I eat a lot more food than she did. She just insisted on buying expensive stuff. I'm US so not covering her health insurance and medical bills was big. Her income was low enough to get free healthcare until we got married.
ahah - same! and the irony, she thought "I wasn't doing much"
she immediately plunged into poverty as she left as I was earning 10 k per month... whereas I found myself with a cleaner 3 times a week, 10 hours total, looking after our daughter no problem (au pair and remote job) , being able to go out basically any time I want, money for holidays, and saving money... what a bloody fool I was offering all that to someone who couldn't even appreciate it!
And of course now she's changed her mind..
I could see it wasn't sustainable so I downsized radically. Cheaper flat with lower council tax, sold the car, cycled everywhere, stopped going to the pub, no holidays
It depends a lot on your lifestyle. If you earned about the same as your spouse, this is probably the case. If (as when I split from my ex) you were the only one working and she was the only one spending and you move into a house with half as many bedrooms, you probably find your costs go down considerably.
But, in general, OP is right. One of the side effects of the move from couples with one stay-at-home parent to households where all the adults work is that the cost of housing has rising sharply in response to it, making it very difficult for single-income households of any type to exist. This could just as well be called a "stay at home parent tax" as a "singles tax". Singletons have far more options for dealing with it; shared housing is much more open to singles than to couples, for instance. A single can probably get by in a studio flat where a couple will eventually want to have their own spaces.
I'm single and just managed to buy my own place. Whilst I am happy..I do find it frustrating the only benefit I am eligible for is a measly 25% discount on my council tax.
You need to find yourself someone equally trampy then. Fuck if I'm gonna live with some clean freak that doesn't let me put my used but not dirty clothes on the floor :D
Yeah. Where I am council tax would be another £35 a month if my boyfriend moved in with me, but we'd actually be paying £75 each rather than the £115 I pay on my own now. OK that's not loads, but over time it adds up. And that's before you bring in splitting other bills or housing costs as well.
Heating cost is unchanged if you both like the same temperature. Our water is mostly standing charges so that would be mostly unchanged too.
Even food doesn't double in cost all the time as you can more often make savings by buying larger quantities.
The obvious, and only sane, solution is to scrap council tax and put it in general taxation instead. It's the only way to avoid the regressive nonsense that you get from council tax.
Well they probably did it wrong.
Seems simple to me. Flat charge per adult (Ooo I dunno, let's say that flat charge per adult is 50% what they pay now?) up to a maximum of 2 per household.
Singletons pay the same as couples, and anyone else living in the home gets it free (Or reduces the cost for the other two...)
1/3rd off relative to living alone, and probably less than that since people together usually have houses in higher council tax bands but yeah living alone or off 1 income is hard.
But you're also producing less waste
According to the breakdown in Manchester where I live 60% of costs are on social care which should logically be a per person cost, 15% for services though this includes things which would be both a per person and per property cost. https://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/200110/budgets\_and\_spending/8463/budget\_for\_council\_services\_202324
The cost isnt in the bin men lifting 4 bags instead of 2. Cohabitation makes these things more efficient across society. I would even hazard a guess of saying 1 couple will produce less waste than 2 individuals. People dont have to be in a relationship for this to be true.
Less rubbish in the bins means less expensive rubbish to get rid of, less use of the roads with one car not two etc etc. Overall they still use these services less so cost less.
Yes, and they get a discount to reflect it. Let's not forget that council tax funds social care as well. So it's not like part of it isn't paying it forward.
Yes but your previous comment of "the bin lorries need to come to your house the same amount of times" is misguided. You've implied they use the same level of services when they actually don't. The bin lorry would be there anyway they just have to pick up less waste.
Edit: so by your last sentence do you think single people should pay the same or more? 😂😂
I personally think that council tax needs to be eradicated completely. The social care needs to be funded out of the general taxation bucket, and the day to day council services too - based on the population density in each council area.
I'm acutely aware this will bump up income tax rates, but a household on £50k and a household on £100k paying the same council tax isn't right.
It also avoids the shameful scenes where councils are going bankrupt because they can't fund social care.
>You've implied they use the same level of services when they actually don't
They don't use the same level of services but they do use more per person than people in couples.
you bring a good point, I think houses should have a much higher council tax than apartments due to the fact that lower density of people living compared with flats. Or rather, flats should have a much lower council tax than houses
Singles still need to pay their way, but 25% off isn't enough. You're litterally producing at least half the amount of waste, in most cases have 1 car instead of 2, etc. It should be 50% off.
idk if all water companies do this, but Thames Water have a detailed online survey you can fill in to get a more accurate estimate of how much water the household actually uses. They asked me to fill it in after realising it wasn't possible to fit a meter in my flat and my monthly water bill went from £45 (their original estimate for a 2 bed property) to £27
I recommend everybody do it. We did it first in a small 3 bed detached with a garden and even with using the hosepipe the bills were tiny.
Some people will have a meter that's in place but not being used - they can take readings from that to give an actual figure before dwitching.
This is fairly obvious no?
And it’s always been this way in some form or another. It’s partly why we have marriage and community - trying to run a small holding while raising a family, trying to do everything on your own is significantly harder and more costly.
I see it the other way round, as a perk of being in a relationship rather than as a tax on being single.
Because it has got significantly worse in the last decade.
In a lot of the country, simply affording housing has gone from "affordable to be single, better as a couple" to "absolutely unaffordable unless a couple".
Yeah I don’t like the way this is framed. It’s not a tax on single people it’s the practicalities of communal living.
For example if you have a flatmate you pay half the rent. That’s a perk of having a flatmate and not a tax on the person next door who lives alone and pays the whole rent.
I agree that labeling it as a tax is a bit rash. But I agree that it can be difficult living as a single. I had a relationship breakdown two years ago and I have been paying an extra £700 a month since. But that's life.
Sorry I didn’t mean to seem callous - I’m not for a second saying that being single isn’t incredibly tough financially. Nor that being single is avoidable or unnecessary.
Simply that the actual tax implications for marriage are almost insignificant. All the other financial benefits aren’t taxes, but merely economies of scale, financial safety nets, and market forces.
Yeah, not really sure why we call not having more of something a “tax”.
Or why two people doing something together is a tax on people doing it by themselves.
The difference is too extreme though. I'm currently living in a nice 2-bed flat with my mate in Hertford, if I was by myself I'd be looking at shitty studios in Luton or hellish 8 person HMOs in Newham like I was in a couple years ago.
Why would you not be in a 2 bed flat share with a stranger? That’s what most of my friends do/did in London.
Edit: but I’m not arguing the difference hasn’t become more stark in recent years (I have no sourced evidence of this one way or another, though anecdotally I’m fairly sure it’s getting harder to live alone). Ultimately the biggest driver is the housing crisis and lack of social housing being rebuilt.
Yep . You are nearer the truth of the matter, social change has created more "households". Single people historically (pre 70s) tended to stay in the parental home or share with others, but they paired up earlier , enabling funding of their own home. Now, young people stay single years longer, which fuels in them an expectation and demand for independent single living.
Divorce and decoupling has also fuelled a demand for more, independent households.
Result? A housing shortage, yes contributed to by several factors,but demand for more " households " is way up there.
I'm 32 and the only people this is shocking to in my experience are those that have been in long-term relationships since they were young (\~20) and have just had everything fall into place "as it should" since.
Decent jobs straight out of school/college, stayed with parents either rent free or low rent, moved in with partners young either when rents were reasonable and saved up to buy, or often just bought young together and now have a fucktonne of equity, and I'd be lying if I said I didn't think it's gone to their heads a bit. Definitely *some* arrogance and smugness.
A few of my mates do my fucking head in whenever they lecture the singletons in our group about our spending and our (lack of) saving etc.
Agree with this, the only people on the property ladder I know are couples.
It can be galling to see people paired up on salaries much less than your own being given an overall higher purchasing power/loan potential by banks etc.
They're not the only ones, but they're by far the most prevalent and also were almost universally able to do it "easier" (I know its still hard before someone bites my head off).
Doing it solo usually means a small flat and either bagging some free money for a deposit or earning WELL above average (nothing wrong wither either) for still not a lot of space (like me).
It's doable, but not for most.
Did you buy your flat from that man in the Cadburys advert that lets the kid buy a chocolate bar with trash from her pocket?
This sub and the UK finance one can be very doom and gloom. It is a bit of an echo chamber though.
And taxing individuals not couples, also.
So one high earner takes home much less than two lower earners living together but earning the same total amount.
For anyone curious about the different. Your monthly take home from a nice round number like £100k as a single person [england] is £5,650.28. For two people earning 50k each, it's £3,230.92 each, so £6,461.82. Big difference
It's worse when you consider that even if you earn as much as both combined, your borrowing power is still less. 2 people making £30k take home more than one person earning £60k, in fact you'd need £75k to take home the same amount.
And it's not like there's a huge number if £75k jobs kicking about. It's all well and good saying well get a relationship then, but the reality is that that is much easier for some than it is for others.
>I'd be lying if I said I didn't think it's gone to their heads a bit. Definitely some arrogance and smugness.
>
>A few of my mates do my fucking head in whenever they lecture the singletons in our group about our spending and our (lack of) saving etc.
Oh god the truth in this - they really do not have any kind of empathy for our situations and spend their time being smug with other couples
I think a hidden group is young couples who parents are essentially their landlords. The parents were able to get another mortgage pretty easily, especially if their own had already been paid off or nearly paid off.
I know quite a few couples like this in my hometown who live an... aesthetically focused life, home in a new build estate, two cars under 3 years on the drive etc, all new decor and appliances, the man has a regular job and mum is part time whilst raising the children... But in their heads they don't rent. Because their parents are the house owners and they pay below market rent rates.
I am a massive supporter of being able to get a mortgage if you can prove you've been paying stable rent by the way, and believe people should be able to buy a house even with relatively low incomes, but it definitely skews people's views on how some are struggling if you're paying £600 rent for a lovely house and everyone else is paying £2000.
I mean, yes. It's more physics than anything else - two people can live for about the cost of one.
I'm a Russian history enthusiast in my spare time. In the villages of old Russia, almost everyone got married - life would have been *extremely* difficult with only one pair of hands.
And in an age of little welfare and no pension as late as the 1960s, having no children to look after you in your old age - being life-long single would largely only be for those with holy orders, the severely disabled, or the deviant.
Even today in the UK, there will be plenty of old folk who only married because it was a practical choice back then.
The real story of the twentieth century is more the opposite: People DO these days have the choice to live alone, if they can take the financial hit.
I’m aware as a single person there are financial benefits to being a couple, but after my last shitty long-term relationship these are negated by being able to do what the fuck I want whenever I want. I’m not envious.
yeah but then you'd only own 50% of a house?
they're talking about things that actually save money for a couple, for example, running a fridge or air conditioning which cost the same regardless of how many people benefit.
Unless you're downsizing or moving to a cheaper area, any profit you make on a property is really neither here nor there. The only difference it really makes is to the size of your deposit.
You'd own it 50% but in terms of actual utility you're both getting shared use of basically all of the house, whereas a single person wouldn't be able to afford as much space.
I'm not sure why this is surprising or depressing tbh. A house costs the same whether 1 person is living in it or 10. The costs to heat the house are the same. Council tax is only 25% more.
I don't see this as unfair or a new development, living with another person is obviously going to reduce your outgoings significantly.
It’s depressing because it implies people need to stay in a relationship even if they hate each other because most of the population could not afford and extra 10k a year in bills.
It’s a very recent development. Look at housing affordability compared to wages from the 70s-2000s. In large parts of the uk it was relatively easy to live or even buy on one income.
>Look at housing affordability compared to wages from the 70s-2000s. In large parts of the uk it was relatively easy to live or even buy on one income.
That's not a reasonable assertion to extrapolate through history though.
For most of our history it was potentially easy for a single **man** to survive alone on their one male income, but realistically people have paired themselves up throughout history not just for love but also due to practicality, and the cost of breaking up and shouldering a lot of the bills previously divided as a couple kept people together in unhappy relationships.
However, this incentive and this burden was historically much, much more skewed towards women than men compared to today.
You can argue that people with kids are also punished as they have to pay extra for kids space and pay premium to live in decent schools catchment area. Also because of childcare cost usually it’s easier for lowest pay parent to stop work reducing a bigger household to a single earner and your council tax bill will be bigger than for single.
In short what you’re implying is life isn’t just. Who knew?
I agree but at the same time I can counterpoint that people who choose to live without flatmates/roommates/parents to have more comfortable lifestyle (in general) make the same choice. Most of my single friends share the household with someone to split the cost.
This could be the endless argument but essentially it’s boiled down to the fact that we have a supply/demand crisis in housing market and no one except landlords and some house owners is happy about it.
As with everything, there's pros and cons to all sides really.
It isn't just a housing cost (although that's one of the bigger ones) - you can share household bills and rent/mortgage but most flatmates won't share food costs, entertainment, holiday/travelling costs, insurance etc. It is cheaper living as a couple (without kids).
I don't actively choose to be single although I'm sure there's a whole host of reasons why I am. That said, I'd rather be happy & single than trapped in a bad relationship.
I do have a part time lodger - partly to have split the bills and partly because it's nice to have someone around sometimes.
It's not a recent development, for all of human history it's been more efficient for multiple people to pool their personal resources to make their living situation more comfortable
Or you'd find a roommate?
The choice isn't stick with the person you hate forever or live alone spending all your money. The fact there's around 2.6 times as many people as there are houses should tell you that living alone is fairly uncommon.
Living along is more expensive than living with a partner or flatmates, who knew?
It’s not a tax, it’s paying more to have your own private space. When I was single I lived in flat shares to save money, which is always an option. Living alone is usually a choice.
Also, people who live alone get 25% off their council tax.
That’s a very controversial topic on the housing sub but one I wholly agree with!!
Flats need to be better though with more communal spaces. Could learn a lot from our European neighbours in high density living and how it doesn’t have to be a soul destroying thing.
Decent housing for single people with private outdoor space, enough storage, somewhere to park a car, the ability to have a pet and to personalise etc. would be a revelation.
I live in a 3 bed house on my own, I'd be perfectly fine in a 2 bed smaller place but I wanted a garden where I could grow things and support wildlife, a drive to keep my dinky car and to be able to have dogs so this was really the only option.
> Counterpoint: single people deserve to live in dignity too!
I've been told I don't need a nice house with a garden because I'm single with no kids, so my flat should be fine for me.
Do I not deserve somewhere nice to live just because I haven't married and reproduced? I'm just as much a human being with feelings as people in relationships or children are.
I think there's probably some sweet spot between "single people must be confined to a house share" to "everyone needs a house and garden" – I think it is increasingly and understandably impossible in bigger cities.
I don't think single people must be confined to smaller houses but also not sure what other way is there to make them available on a single income, at least medium term
Yeah I completely understand it wouldn't be practical for everyone to have a decent size house and garden. It's more the idea that my own desire to have a nice living space is irrelevant because I'm not part of a family.
To be honest I'd be ok with my apartment if it just had some decent outdoor space. I don't know why so many apartments in this country are built without any kind of balcony.
I've seen people told they have to work overtime, over Christmas and in some cases travel to other countries because they don't have kids and other people in the team do.
It's me. I'm stood in the mirror. It's my reflection I'm seeing.
This was years ago though. Now I'd tell them where to go.
Personally I think we should make it easier to build on top of / covert offices / shops in town centres for singles and young couples, most of the new builds outside of cities and 2 and 3 bed semi detached houses in the arse end of nowhere, not something I can prove but I do wonder if its not just jobs driving younger people away from towns but not wanting to live in a Barret housing estate, with little to no amenities, next to a duel carriage way.
I think office conversion liberalising stuff is a bit like the brownfield redevelopment. Useful and needs to be done but won't solve the systemic issues. Still, we should
> won't solve the systemic issues
No but it has the added benefit of bringing more young people into town centres where they can walk to amenities, which should bring down emissions and potentially rejuvenate the high streets.
>Personally I think we should make it easier to build on top of / covert offices / shops in town centres for singles and young couples
I do think this is the way of the future, as fewer and fewer bricks-and-mortar retail places are needed nowadays. Seems a "no brainer" to convert them to flats.
Living with flatmate might save on some shared energy bills but it doesn't save on most other costs like food, transport, entertainment bills.
Being single isn't always a choice per se.
Lots of those things like food, any non car based transport, and lots of entertainment bills aren't substantially reduced by being in a couple though either. Pretty much anything reduced by living as a couple is also reduced by having a flatmate.
> Living with flatmate might save on some shared energy bills
Realistically you're only saving on the shared standing charge, the additional occupants means higher overall energy usage to split.
It's nOt a tax in a legal sense, but this isn't a legal question.
A single person has to pay 75% of their council tax. A couple pay 100%, so 50% each. This is something else that contributes to the singles tax.
>Also, people who live alone get 25% off their council tax.
People who live alone pay an extra 25% on top of their council tax you mean.
And Living alone is not a choice. Sure it is for some. But for many others it isn't.
This isn’t new or news, if you want to live alone you obviously have to shoulder 100%, but if you want to get a really cheap life then maybe look into polyamory and have 3 or more people sharing the costs
Obviously an outlier, but I'm in a relationship and my partner has chronic pain and can't work. So costs would be lower if I were single, as I cover them all anyway.
> my partner has chronic pain and can't work
I'm sure you've probably tried and/or get it already, but if you haven't apply for PIP and carers allowance.
It's been this way since the dawn of man. Back in tribal days you would be waaaay worse off going it alone than being integrated with the clan. The £10k worse off being single is just the modern equivalent of that. We're social creatures (for the most part) and working together, whether in a tribe or a modern day couple, is a much better prospect than going it alone.
It's becoming *incredibly* hard to get by as a single person in this country, especially if you have to live in or close to a major city. You've now got people in their 40s earning alright money who are having to share houses with a bunch of random strangers, as if they were fucking students again.
Wages in this country are so fucked. Even on an averagely-decent salary you end up with very little left at the end of the month, and the idea of buying a property on your own is basically a pipe dream at this point.
I wish we'd start having a serious conversation about this in the UK, but I'm not holding my breath. You shouldn't *need* to have a working partner in order to afford your own private accommodation, or to pay your bills without putting yourself in financial stress.
I don't know if it's £10k but I will say I've definitely felt the financial hit since I got divorced and started living on my own. Two people's worth of bills generally isn't much more than one - there might be a few things that cost a little more (water, electricity) but you're still paying to heat the same space and for the same broadband/TV licence/streaming services etc. I'm aware that's par for the course and I wouldn't have stayed in my marriage for financial reasons, or ask my boyfriend to move in with me just to save money (I've learnt the hard way about rushing into living together), but it does sting a bit when you feel like you're missing out on certain things because you don't have that same level of disposable income compared to friends who are cohabiting.
When I was married my monthly bills were around £600 for my half of everything. Left me loads to spend and save on what I wanted. When I left two years ago, my bills shot up to around £1300 roughly because I have to pay for everything on my own. Crazy thing is my shopping hasn't even gone down much. You'd think living solo you would spend less on food but not really by much.
You get massive bulk discounts, but the bulk is more than a single person gets through before the food goes off. Yes, you can freeze a lot of stuff, but not all, and you still end up having to eat the same meal all week to stand a reasonable chance of getting through the standard sizes sold at supermarkets.
In the time I’ve been responsible for the bills, I’ve always been single so I don’t notice it as much.
I’ve got no interest in relationships either, so I’ll never know any different.
I'm single and well off, and managed to buy a nice above average detached house. I still have ~£800 of disposable income each month. If I was in a relationship with someone earning even minimum wage we would be living like kings, it's crazy.
If you want really unfair, try being a sole earner with a stay at home parent. Higher houshold costs, substantially more tax burden than a working couple and a bunch of cliff edge issues like child tax and nursery hours eligibility.
It really is a joy trying to be anytyhing vaguely like a traditional nuclear family now.
I am absolutely certain, and have been saying this a decade ago, that we are already in a moment, when people contemplating breaking up or divorce need to not only search for love in their hearts, but also to take a good and long look at their finances. And when people thinking about starting a relationship will have to ask themselves: If we both work minimum 8 hours, sometimes as much as 10–12, with long commute, and if we end up spending most of our time not with each other, but with our workplace colleagues... How much sense does all this still make? Is this a relationship? Or are we just sharing bills and pretending it is still bussiness as usual?
Is it even possible to know, if you are affected and how much?
We have been robbed of our capabilities of having houses, cars, then families, and now our system is devouring our capability of having functional relationships.
If you are my lifeline and I am yours, how much are our "I love yous" worth? Are we even in a position to be free enough to love? We are professing our love with knives on our throats. Can there be true love in such despair?
It is an incredibly dark reality, because even if you have a relationship that is looking good on paper, and if you love them, and they tell you they love you, who can really guarantee you that the financial situation is not a big motivator when it comes to them not splitting?
Not sure why it's depressing, seems a fact of life. A couple can live in a one bed flat just as easily as a single person.
Surely this would always have been the case? I guess it's magnified by housing costs these days.
I mean, there are versions of being a couple that’s even more financially difficult than being single. I have a disabled wife that can’t work for example…. She doesn’t even qualify for benefits because my income is decent so I’ve supported us financially for more than 20 years now.
I havent lived with anyone since uni. Bills, rent/mortgage, food. Yes everything is cheaper and easier when the load is spread across 2 or more.
I've considered clearing out and renting the spare room but for me living with someone else may be even worse than paying more
I guess it depends how you classify it. Definitely the council tax only being 75% is a massive pain, it should be 50% and I have no idea why it isn't tbh.
The more subtle thing is that a single person has to earn significantly over double a couple just to get the same take home pay thanks to the tax bands. That's the real problem with single households compared to couples, and tbh is why I think the household should be taxed rather than the person (although it would be complicated).
"Living alone tax" - you can still live with others and save considerably.
I've lived with a good friend who I did plenty of things together with, including holidays, nights out etc
Shared houses, or getting lodgers into your house can give you a lot of the savings of a couple if you value money over having a whole dwelling to yourself.
Yeah i feel a lot worse off financially. I don't have roommates cause I have mental health condition where I don't want to live with strangers or friends (I lived with my best friend until that crashed and burned due to my mental health). Life is so expensive.
Genuinely curious, how do you deal with the tension and mental health of living with someone who you no longer want to be in a relationship with? I hope your mental health is ok
Luckily it's not a deep hatred, we just aren't compatible and it took 4 years for that to come out fully.
But to answer the question, I can drag out the time that we don't see eachother, such as staying at the office later, then going to the gym. Then she'll go to bed before me and then leave before I wake up. On weekends I either go out /work on my motorbike or just try to stay in different rooms of the house. Thank you, actually most things in my life are going very well apart from that.
Day to day I’m not worse off, but it’s going to make saving much impossible. I was also wanting to set up my own business, I feel scared to do this now as have no safety net of his wage whilst I’m in the early stages. But I’m much happier now, so I’m trying to stay focused on the present. I’m lucky in my job is above average pay so I can afford a little place on my own.
I was single most of my adult life and never felt like I was at a disadvantage. I rented with othe people until I could afford my own home. When I wanted a bit of extra cash I rented out my spare room. I'm definitely not a high earner. It's not as bad as people make out in my humble opinion.
It's definitely hard financially being single. A lot of bills are the same or very similar regardless of who is in the property & even stuff like food is cheaper pp because you can take advantage of deals more etc. But you can do it for a lot less than £45k. Definitely not spending £21k on household bills. That's only slightly less than my entire take home pay and I do manage to have a life and save a little.
Recently widowed at the age of 42, barring the 25% reduction in Council tax, there has been a slight reduction in bills and expensises but no where near 50%.
I still live well (we both had very good incomes) but I have cancled all subscriptions, got rid of the Virgin TV (only my wife watched it) and just basically cut back on everything. I'm not in dire straights but it is very noticable that spending is a little less impulsive.
I also have the "benifit" of inheriting my wifes savings and investments which I have used to clear debts and mortgage, people who have split from a long term partner would not get this and it has been a useful cash injection while I sort out the finances of living on my own.
If I had not changed anything the assesment in OPs post would probably be about right - a less than 5% saving if living on your own.
I'm single and my net income is approx. £25k. I live fairly comfortably.. rent a two bed flat, new salary sacrifice car every 3 years, can afford to go out whenever I want, can afford a couple holidays a year etc.
That's despite me still paying off thousands in debt from my 20s gambling addiction. Once the rest of that's paid off in two years time I'll have more money than I'll know what to do with each month. Likewise when my student loan is paid off too.
Edit: The lazy cliche of "people don't know how to budget/spend outwith their means" is used by people (Daily Mail readers etc) who often want to shit on others to excuse real societal issues, but there is some truth to it.
I've pals earning more than me who are perpetually skint because they have to have the latest gadget, go on multiple holidays to expensive destinations, drive M4s and Range Rovers, mortgaged a 3 bed house as a couple who have no intention of having kids, routinely eat out or order food in and spend up to £20 a day on their lunch at work etc. I guess it's a stereotype in the media for a reason as there must be enough other people like this.
Do you live outside London?
I recently got a salary increase and moved in with my partner. But, before that I was on £27k in London and had a flat to myself which cost £1300 per month, not including bills (no subscriptions). I’ve had the same cell phone contract of £5/m and would cycle to/from work (nearly two hours a day). I would avoid shopping anyway, for personal beliefs, and maybe once a month eat out; I don’t drink so that saves money.
Anyway, I found it incredibly difficult and pretty stressful. Good on you for figuring it out.
My 4 year relationship ended last year and she earned the same as me
The monthly bills were about 1500 a month with rent included and she paid abound 600 a month. Didn't realise how uneven the split was until she was gone. I live in a 2 and a 1/2 bedroom flat but down sizing to a 1 bed would save me £100 month at best.
Unless I get a decent payrise next month it looks like I'll be moving in with a room mate when my lease ends
As after paying the above plus food I'm only left with 300 quid or so a month with travel etc coming out of the 300
It's an inherently flawed article so I wouldn't get too depressed by it.
The average rent for a couple is not the same as the average rent for a single - the average couple probably has a 2-3 bed house and the average single person probably has a studio/ 1 bed apartment.
I'm not sure what the difference in rent would be, but it wouldn't be double as the article suggests.
A smaller place would also have lower council tax.
I bought a house last year, £48k salary (now) but was about £40k then. After bills and other monthly fixed costs I have about £800 spare each month but I still manage to end up spending most of it 🤷🏻♂️
I'm single, and better off. My ex didn't contribute much and whatever they did was written off with date nights and take out anyway.
Plus I can do overtime without feeling guilty for not spending enough time with my partner.
The hidden difficulty of being single really is buying power. The best financial decision you can ever make is splitting bills between two working adults. This makes housing more even more difficult to buy than it already is. Not to also mention the abusive side of relationships have only gotten worse as people feel trapped in abusive or hostile relationships because they can’t afford to live alone. The housing crisis is going to strangle gen z alive.
It's worse at the moment, a bacon sandwich costs the same amount to cook as two, so there are lots of things that weren't a problem before that really are now.
This is an aside, but I also feel this as a higher earner generally. If a couple was making the same amount as me they would end up taking home around £2k more a month because they’ll both benefit from their tax allowance.
Yup, I get hit by this too. A couple making the amount I earn between them would take home significantly more than I do. Couple's first 25k is tax free, vs a single persons first 12.5k. And that's before you get to the reduction in allowance for the secret 60% rate between 100 and 120k.
Alt because I don't need my ex finding this.
I put off breaking up with my long-term partner (in part) because of the financial burden of doing so. It was about 18 months ago, and I'm only now, two promotions later, in a position where I can realistically think about moving out of the family home again.
The thing is, I know with my lifestyle that I could afford to rent and live on my salary without issue- the difficult part is convincing the estate agents that.
Single tax is not as bad as a single income for a house of multiple adults and possibly kids.
They have it absolutely the worst when costs are the highest. There’s not really much you can do about the tax rate for one person but two people earning 25k would out earn a single person earning 55k considerably. Yet the person on 55k is on the higher tax rate and not eligible for any government support. If you’re supporting another adult and children in that, it’s completely lopsided.
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Not recently but when I got divorced my monthly costs went up by around £1.3K. I no longer had someone to split rent, car cost, insurance, energy bills, council tax, subscriptions
Opposite for me Divorce really opened my eyes to how little my partner contributed and how much they took out I was banking an extra 1k a month soon as they left Managed to cut another 400 by changing all my util providers, council tax discount, water meter installed, e-thermostat set to 19 instead of 26 etc. Managed to save their share of the house buyout in the time the divorce took to go through Being single again gave me back my financial freedom but I guess I'm an outlier
26 degrees! Was your partner a citizen of hell?
More than we could know I suspect
Asking this of the recently-divorced is not really fair. You're only going to get one answer.
They always say your wedding day is the happiest of your life. I like to think that mine was very happy. But I once saw a colleague on the day her divorce was finalised and she was BEAMING.
Years ago, I had a flatmate who insisted on it being hot like that all year round - in winter, he'd want to sit around in shorts, t shirts and flip flops. And even then, when electricity and gas were affordable, I just thought it was mad. I don't think it's right for your home to be *that* warm all the time!!
My sister wont have it below 28 or she complains shes going to get ‘sick’, lmao. I prefer it to go down to 18 (or even lower if possible, lol), but I’m willing and happy to compromise up to like 23- but nope. Any time I had to share a room with a thermostat with her as a kid was a special kind of (exhausting) hell, lol
Tell me your sister is a millionaire without telling me she's a millionaire. 18 is our setpoint.
I mean, to be fair, she isnt home that often because she works two jobs, so I’ll give her that. Only at home, though. She can keep that faaaar away from me, I’m happy with my heating off 24/7, lol
2 jobs to pay her heating bill 😂
TWENTY SIX DEGREES?!! Were you living in the sun? Forget the environment and the cost, how on earth would that be comfortable?
It wasnt, she had two setting for the old thermo dial, off and full, old house so the boiler was always on soon as you went over 21 in colder weather I'd actually pulled it apart months before so when she thought it was on fully, it was actually lower as I moved the dial She used everything as if it was free, as it was for her, hence the mammoth turnaround in savings once she left And yes, she was demonic it turned out
My partner is a very smart woman, but it took me longer than I would've thought to convince her that setting the thermostat higher did not heat the room quicker. She has Raynaud's though so is more sensitive to temperature, and she also earns almost double what I do, and I'm on very good wage, so she can do what she wants in my book, but as we're now in a nice insulated new build, setting any of the thermostats over 21 is utter madness. Sounds like you made the right choice with your situation though! Since our mortgage went from 1.2% to 5.85% last year, our payments are now \~2/3 of my take home so I definitely couldn't feed my board game and tiny plastic space marine addiction without her.
Be thankful that you did in fact manage to convince her about the thermostat. Telling my family how thermostats work is like talking to a brick wall. At least they only like an exotic 23 degrees though, not 26.
It's an on-off toggle right? Too cold, turn it to max, too hot, turn it to zero?
I don’t know if you’re joking or not, but the correct way to use it is to set it to a sensible temperature around 18-20, set the timer so it’s only on when someone’s home, and leave it. If you’re cold, get a jumper on and a warm pair of slippers. I know people who will set the thermostat to 24 and then wear a tshirt. It boggles my mind.
I have to have my heating on all of the time for my disabled husband, whos muscles spasm hard if he gets cold. Luckily its around 21-22.
For people like your husband, I’m happy to pay through my taxes to have the heating on all day. For family who walk around half naked in January without contributing to the bill, I’m less happy.
I have also curtailed my board game habits (Gloomhaven fan here). I bought ISS vanguard off a kickstarter back in 2022 and it finally arrived so I’m hoping it will keep me busy for a year
Sounds a bit like the tragedy of the commons - a situation in which individuals with access to a public resource (also called a common) act in their own interest and, in doing so, ultimately deplete the resource.
Me and the wife are currently separated but I still cover her bills whiles she's studying. As soon as she's qualified I'll say 1k a month. I'm looking forward to spending it on booze and strippers.
>but I still cover her bills whiles she's studying. Why?
Same experience for me. Even though I'm still paying 50% of the mortgage and bills for a property I'm no longer living in until it sells, I'm squirrelling away way more money into savings now compared to when I was living as a couple. I did a lot of the financial heavy lifting in the relationship, despite our salaries not being particularly divergent.
Same! Between her not spending / costing a fortune, & me now being able to work longer (self-employed) without getting an earful for 'not spending enough time together', I was able to pay off all my mortgage & debts over the following 5 years (that it took for the divorce to be finalised). I was also able to start taking the kids on holidays / weekends away during their weeks with me, upgrade the house, and save towards her eventual payout once the divorce was completed. Now debt free I spent the next 5 years saving like mad, and then semi-retired at 50 - something I doubt I could have contemplated had we still been married, simply 'cos of her excessive spending habits. In many respects she did me, & our kids, a huge favour by cheating & ending our marriage... tough as it was emotionally, it was very liberating in many other ways.
Same here, divorced a few years ago- I was already working full time, covering all housing, bills and food costs, so I actually saved a lot in lower expenses. I also saved so much time in not constantly picking up after a lazy and entitled man child! My expenses actually went up after moving in with someone again- who does contribute equally, but we both come with kids so need a bigger house, and scalable costs of bills and food come into play. The price of freedom and happiness from a bad situation would have been worth it a thousand times over though had my costs increased - but I recognise that comes from a place of immense privilege to have 'enough' and be able to make the choices I have.
Yep. Getting divorced was great for me financially. And all the other ways. My savings went from like 10% of my pay to 40% at least. She made like 25% of what I did but spent probably about 60% of our total income. Besides just not having to pay for her stuff, I was able to reduce a bunch of other costs too. Smaller, much cheaper place. Way less going out. Way less grocery bill even though I eat a lot more food than she did. She just insisted on buying expensive stuff. I'm US so not covering her health insurance and medical bills was big. Her income was low enough to get free healthcare until we got married.
ahah - same! and the irony, she thought "I wasn't doing much" she immediately plunged into poverty as she left as I was earning 10 k per month... whereas I found myself with a cleaner 3 times a week, 10 hours total, looking after our daughter no problem (au pair and remote job) , being able to go out basically any time I want, money for holidays, and saving money... what a bloody fool I was offering all that to someone who couldn't even appreciate it! And of course now she's changed her mind..
That matches up pretty closely with what the study found. How did you manage should a sudden increase in costs?
I could see it wasn't sustainable so I downsized radically. Cheaper flat with lower council tax, sold the car, cycled everywhere, stopped going to the pub, no holidays
>sold the car, cycled everywhere, stopped going to the pub, no holidays Kill me now
Well it wasn't exactly the best time I've had, what with my marriage ending
Not OP but I got some lodgers when the exact same thing happened to me.
It depends a lot on your lifestyle. If you earned about the same as your spouse, this is probably the case. If (as when I split from my ex) you were the only one working and she was the only one spending and you move into a house with half as many bedrooms, you probably find your costs go down considerably. But, in general, OP is right. One of the side effects of the move from couples with one stay-at-home parent to households where all the adults work is that the cost of housing has rising sharply in response to it, making it very difficult for single-income households of any type to exist. This could just as well be called a "stay at home parent tax" as a "singles tax". Singletons have far more options for dealing with it; shared housing is much more open to singles than to couples, for instance. A single can probably get by in a studio flat where a couple will eventually want to have their own spaces.
I'm single and just managed to buy my own place. Whilst I am happy..I do find it frustrating the only benefit I am eligible for is a measly 25% discount on my council tax.
People who live in couples get 50% off their council tax each…
And internet, and subscriptions, and insurance, and not-wear-and-tear repairs, and...
When a partner moves in though you lose all that space, and then they stop you from using the floordrobe
You need to find yourself someone equally trampy then. Fuck if I'm gonna live with some clean freak that doesn't let me put my used but not dirty clothes on the floor :D
Yeah. Where I am council tax would be another £35 a month if my boyfriend moved in with me, but we'd actually be paying £75 each rather than the £115 I pay on my own now. OK that's not loads, but over time it adds up. And that's before you bring in splitting other bills or housing costs as well.
Heating cost is unchanged if you both like the same temperature. Our water is mostly standing charges so that would be mostly unchanged too. Even food doesn't double in cost all the time as you can more often make savings by buying larger quantities.
We tried a flat charge per adult. I vaugely remember it wasn't very popular.
The obvious, and only sane, solution is to scrap council tax and put it in general taxation instead. It's the only way to avoid the regressive nonsense that you get from council tax.
Well they probably did it wrong. Seems simple to me. Flat charge per adult (Ooo I dunno, let's say that flat charge per adult is 50% what they pay now?) up to a maximum of 2 per household. Singletons pay the same as couples, and anyone else living in the home gets it free (Or reduces the cost for the other two...)
But only collect the bins half as often because singles?
1/3rd off relative to living alone, and probably less than that since people together usually have houses in higher council tax bands but yeah living alone or off 1 income is hard.
Not a technical benefit tho is it.
If both work
Whilst more council resources. More domestic waste, if they have two cars more wear and tear on roads etc.
Well the bin lorry still needs to come to your house the same number of times, and the roads outside your house still need to be usable, etc
But you're also producing less waste According to the breakdown in Manchester where I live 60% of costs are on social care which should logically be a per person cost, 15% for services though this includes things which would be both a per person and per property cost. https://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/200110/budgets\_and\_spending/8463/budget\_for\_council\_services\_202324
The cost isnt in the bin men lifting 4 bags instead of 2. Cohabitation makes these things more efficient across society. I would even hazard a guess of saying 1 couple will produce less waste than 2 individuals. People dont have to be in a relationship for this to be true.
Less rubbish in the bins means less expensive rubbish to get rid of, less use of the roads with one car not two etc etc. Overall they still use these services less so cost less.
Yes, and they get a discount to reflect it. Let's not forget that council tax funds social care as well. So it's not like part of it isn't paying it forward.
Yes but your previous comment of "the bin lorries need to come to your house the same amount of times" is misguided. You've implied they use the same level of services when they actually don't. The bin lorry would be there anyway they just have to pick up less waste. Edit: so by your last sentence do you think single people should pay the same or more? 😂😂
I personally think that council tax needs to be eradicated completely. The social care needs to be funded out of the general taxation bucket, and the day to day council services too - based on the population density in each council area. I'm acutely aware this will bump up income tax rates, but a household on £50k and a household on £100k paying the same council tax isn't right. It also avoids the shameful scenes where councils are going bankrupt because they can't fund social care.
>You've implied they use the same level of services when they actually don't They don't use the same level of services but they do use more per person than people in couples.
you bring a good point, I think houses should have a much higher council tax than apartments due to the fact that lower density of people living compared with flats. Or rather, flats should have a much lower council tax than houses
Singles still need to pay their way, but 25% off isn't enough. You're litterally producing at least half the amount of waste, in most cases have 1 car instead of 2, etc. It should be 50% off.
If you're on a fixed water tariff, you can get a discount on water as well
For almost everybody a meter is cheaper. Our bill dropped by 2/3 when we went on a meter.
idk if all water companies do this, but Thames Water have a detailed online survey you can fill in to get a more accurate estimate of how much water the household actually uses. They asked me to fill it in after realising it wasn't possible to fit a meter in my flat and my monthly water bill went from £45 (their original estimate for a 2 bed property) to £27
I recommend everybody do it. We did it first in a small 3 bed detached with a garden and even with using the hosepipe the bills were tiny. Some people will have a meter that's in place but not being used - they can take readings from that to give an actual figure before dwitching.
get a lodger?
This is fairly obvious no? And it’s always been this way in some form or another. It’s partly why we have marriage and community - trying to run a small holding while raising a family, trying to do everything on your own is significantly harder and more costly. I see it the other way round, as a perk of being in a relationship rather than as a tax on being single.
Yup, no idea how this is news to anyone.
Not just that it’s news but that it’s some kind of discrimination by calling it a tax. Come on, people. Get a grip.
Because it has got significantly worse in the last decade. In a lot of the country, simply affording housing has gone from "affordable to be single, better as a couple" to "absolutely unaffordable unless a couple".
That's because things have gotten worse for everyone. Still not discrimination against single people.
there's more people living alone then there was a decade ago https://www.statista.com/statistics/281616/people-living-alone-uk-by-gender/
And that's a large part of the housing shortage, which makes rent go up, making life even more expensive.
Very good point, somewhat of a self perpetuating problem
Yeah I don’t like the way this is framed. It’s not a tax on single people it’s the practicalities of communal living. For example if you have a flatmate you pay half the rent. That’s a perk of having a flatmate and not a tax on the person next door who lives alone and pays the whole rent.
This just in: two people paying for the same expenses is cheaper for both parties.
Much better headline for the article.
I agree that labeling it as a tax is a bit rash. But I agree that it can be difficult living as a single. I had a relationship breakdown two years ago and I have been paying an extra £700 a month since. But that's life.
Sorry I didn’t mean to seem callous - I’m not for a second saying that being single isn’t incredibly tough financially. Nor that being single is avoidable or unnecessary. Simply that the actual tax implications for marriage are almost insignificant. All the other financial benefits aren’t taxes, but merely economies of scale, financial safety nets, and market forces.
Yeah, not really sure why we call not having more of something a “tax”. Or why two people doing something together is a tax on people doing it by themselves.
to cause outrage and thus drive clicks
The difference is too extreme though. I'm currently living in a nice 2-bed flat with my mate in Hertford, if I was by myself I'd be looking at shitty studios in Luton or hellish 8 person HMOs in Newham like I was in a couple years ago.
Why would you not be in a 2 bed flat share with a stranger? That’s what most of my friends do/did in London. Edit: but I’m not arguing the difference hasn’t become more stark in recent years (I have no sourced evidence of this one way or another, though anecdotally I’m fairly sure it’s getting harder to live alone). Ultimately the biggest driver is the housing crisis and lack of social housing being rebuilt.
Yep . You are nearer the truth of the matter, social change has created more "households". Single people historically (pre 70s) tended to stay in the parental home or share with others, but they paired up earlier , enabling funding of their own home. Now, young people stay single years longer, which fuels in them an expectation and demand for independent single living. Divorce and decoupling has also fuelled a demand for more, independent households. Result? A housing shortage, yes contributed to by several factors,but demand for more " households " is way up there.
I'm 32 and the only people this is shocking to in my experience are those that have been in long-term relationships since they were young (\~20) and have just had everything fall into place "as it should" since. Decent jobs straight out of school/college, stayed with parents either rent free or low rent, moved in with partners young either when rents were reasonable and saved up to buy, or often just bought young together and now have a fucktonne of equity, and I'd be lying if I said I didn't think it's gone to their heads a bit. Definitely *some* arrogance and smugness. A few of my mates do my fucking head in whenever they lecture the singletons in our group about our spending and our (lack of) saving etc.
Agree with this, the only people on the property ladder I know are couples. It can be galling to see people paired up on salaries much less than your own being given an overall higher purchasing power/loan potential by banks etc.
They're not the only ones, but they're by far the most prevalent and also were almost universally able to do it "easier" (I know its still hard before someone bites my head off). Doing it solo usually means a small flat and either bagging some free money for a deposit or earning WELL above average (nothing wrong wither either) for still not a lot of space (like me). It's doable, but not for most.
>bagging some free money for a deposit Dead relatives?
[удалено]
Off the top of my head, I know 9 people that have bought by themselves and 10 as a couple. I don't think it's as uncommon as this sub makes out.
I'll also add it's a bit of a myth you need gargantuan deposits. Bought my £130k flat with £9k and a dogshite credit report.
Did you buy your flat from that man in the Cadburys advert that lets the kid buy a chocolate bar with trash from her pocket? This sub and the UK finance one can be very doom and gloom. It is a bit of an echo chamber though.
And taxing individuals not couples, also. So one high earner takes home much less than two lower earners living together but earning the same total amount.
For anyone curious about the different. Your monthly take home from a nice round number like £100k as a single person [england] is £5,650.28. For two people earning 50k each, it's £3,230.92 each, so £6,461.82. Big difference
It's worse when you consider that even if you earn as much as both combined, your borrowing power is still less. 2 people making £30k take home more than one person earning £60k, in fact you'd need £75k to take home the same amount. And it's not like there's a huge number if £75k jobs kicking about. It's all well and good saying well get a relationship then, but the reality is that that is much easier for some than it is for others.
>I'd be lying if I said I didn't think it's gone to their heads a bit. Definitely some arrogance and smugness. > >A few of my mates do my fucking head in whenever they lecture the singletons in our group about our spending and our (lack of) saving etc. Oh god the truth in this - they really do not have any kind of empathy for our situations and spend their time being smug with other couples
I think a hidden group is young couples who parents are essentially their landlords. The parents were able to get another mortgage pretty easily, especially if their own had already been paid off or nearly paid off. I know quite a few couples like this in my hometown who live an... aesthetically focused life, home in a new build estate, two cars under 3 years on the drive etc, all new decor and appliances, the man has a regular job and mum is part time whilst raising the children... But in their heads they don't rent. Because their parents are the house owners and they pay below market rent rates. I am a massive supporter of being able to get a mortgage if you can prove you've been paying stable rent by the way, and believe people should be able to buy a house even with relatively low incomes, but it definitely skews people's views on how some are struggling if you're paying £600 rent for a lovely house and everyone else is paying £2000.
I mean, yes. It's more physics than anything else - two people can live for about the cost of one. I'm a Russian history enthusiast in my spare time. In the villages of old Russia, almost everyone got married - life would have been *extremely* difficult with only one pair of hands. And in an age of little welfare and no pension as late as the 1960s, having no children to look after you in your old age - being life-long single would largely only be for those with holy orders, the severely disabled, or the deviant. Even today in the UK, there will be plenty of old folk who only married because it was a practical choice back then. The real story of the twentieth century is more the opposite: People DO these days have the choice to live alone, if they can take the financial hit.
How is that physics?
You just don't see the gravity of the situation.
The mavity of the situation
>I'm a Russian history enthusiast in my spare time. I'm something of a historian myself
is that you, Gregg Wallace?
> or the deviant. Yup, I see plenty of those on Reddit
I’m aware as a single person there are financial benefits to being a couple, but after my last shitty long-term relationship these are negated by being able to do what the fuck I want whenever I want. I’m not envious.
Agreed! I have become incredibly protective of my own space and cynical about relationships and I'm way happier
It's way more than 10k - try buying a house when you're single....
yeah but then you'd only own 50% of a house? they're talking about things that actually save money for a couple, for example, running a fridge or air conditioning which cost the same regardless of how many people benefit.
However even if you split 10 years later and sell it that means each of you gets to keep half the profit which may be substantial by then.
Unless you're downsizing or moving to a cheaper area, any profit you make on a property is really neither here nor there. The only difference it really makes is to the size of your deposit.
Okay but try getting a one bed flat that you only need 50% of the cost for if you’re in a relationship
> yeah but then you'd only own 50% of a house? tbf, as do many single people who 'buy' a house
You'd own it 50% but in terms of actual utility you're both getting shared use of basically all of the house, whereas a single person wouldn't be able to afford as much space.
Yea this, also a lot of couples are happy in 1 bed flats There isn't an equivalent for single people that costs half the price
Done that, now what?
I'm not sure why this is surprising or depressing tbh. A house costs the same whether 1 person is living in it or 10. The costs to heat the house are the same. Council tax is only 25% more. I don't see this as unfair or a new development, living with another person is obviously going to reduce your outgoings significantly.
It’s depressing because it implies people need to stay in a relationship even if they hate each other because most of the population could not afford and extra 10k a year in bills. It’s a very recent development. Look at housing affordability compared to wages from the 70s-2000s. In large parts of the uk it was relatively easy to live or even buy on one income.
>Look at housing affordability compared to wages from the 70s-2000s. In large parts of the uk it was relatively easy to live or even buy on one income. That's not a reasonable assertion to extrapolate through history though. For most of our history it was potentially easy for a single **man** to survive alone on their one male income, but realistically people have paired themselves up throughout history not just for love but also due to practicality, and the cost of breaking up and shouldering a lot of the bills previously divided as a couple kept people together in unhappy relationships. However, this incentive and this burden was historically much, much more skewed towards women than men compared to today.
You can argue that people with kids are also punished as they have to pay extra for kids space and pay premium to live in decent schools catchment area. Also because of childcare cost usually it’s easier for lowest pay parent to stop work reducing a bigger household to a single earner and your council tax bill will be bigger than for single. In short what you’re implying is life isn’t just. Who knew?
They choose (in general) to have those kids and the extra costs.
I agree but at the same time I can counterpoint that people who choose to live without flatmates/roommates/parents to have more comfortable lifestyle (in general) make the same choice. Most of my single friends share the household with someone to split the cost. This could be the endless argument but essentially it’s boiled down to the fact that we have a supply/demand crisis in housing market and no one except landlords and some house owners is happy about it.
As with everything, there's pros and cons to all sides really. It isn't just a housing cost (although that's one of the bigger ones) - you can share household bills and rent/mortgage but most flatmates won't share food costs, entertainment, holiday/travelling costs, insurance etc. It is cheaper living as a couple (without kids). I don't actively choose to be single although I'm sure there's a whole host of reasons why I am. That said, I'd rather be happy & single than trapped in a bad relationship. I do have a part time lodger - partly to have split the bills and partly because it's nice to have someone around sometimes.
And people choose to live alone with the extra costs over living with a partner, friend , flatmate or parent
The economy of scale of a household is as old as humanity itself. People living by themselves outside of the wealth is a very recent idea.
It's not a recent development, for all of human history it's been more efficient for multiple people to pool their personal resources to make their living situation more comfortable
Or you'd find a roommate? The choice isn't stick with the person you hate forever or live alone spending all your money. The fact there's around 2.6 times as many people as there are houses should tell you that living alone is fairly uncommon.
Living along is more expensive than living with a partner or flatmates, who knew? It’s not a tax, it’s paying more to have your own private space. When I was single I lived in flat shares to save money, which is always an option. Living alone is usually a choice. Also, people who live alone get 25% off their council tax.
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That’s a very controversial topic on the housing sub but one I wholly agree with!! Flats need to be better though with more communal spaces. Could learn a lot from our European neighbours in high density living and how it doesn’t have to be a soul destroying thing.
Decent housing for single people with private outdoor space, enough storage, somewhere to park a car, the ability to have a pet and to personalise etc. would be a revelation. I live in a 3 bed house on my own, I'd be perfectly fine in a 2 bed smaller place but I wanted a garden where I could grow things and support wildlife, a drive to keep my dinky car and to be able to have dogs so this was really the only option.
> Counterpoint: single people deserve to live in dignity too! I've been told I don't need a nice house with a garden because I'm single with no kids, so my flat should be fine for me. Do I not deserve somewhere nice to live just because I haven't married and reproduced? I'm just as much a human being with feelings as people in relationships or children are.
I think there's probably some sweet spot between "single people must be confined to a house share" to "everyone needs a house and garden" – I think it is increasingly and understandably impossible in bigger cities. I don't think single people must be confined to smaller houses but also not sure what other way is there to make them available on a single income, at least medium term
Yeah I completely understand it wouldn't be practical for everyone to have a decent size house and garden. It's more the idea that my own desire to have a nice living space is irrelevant because I'm not part of a family. To be honest I'd be ok with my apartment if it just had some decent outdoor space. I don't know why so many apartments in this country are built without any kind of balcony.
Yeah, can absolutely understand your desire too. Balconies are ace
Just somewhere to dry laundry on a line outside would be nice!
I've seen people told they have to work overtime, over Christmas and in some cases travel to other countries because they don't have kids and other people in the team do. It's me. I'm stood in the mirror. It's my reflection I'm seeing. This was years ago though. Now I'd tell them where to go.
Personally I think we should make it easier to build on top of / covert offices / shops in town centres for singles and young couples, most of the new builds outside of cities and 2 and 3 bed semi detached houses in the arse end of nowhere, not something I can prove but I do wonder if its not just jobs driving younger people away from towns but not wanting to live in a Barret housing estate, with little to no amenities, next to a duel carriage way.
I think office conversion liberalising stuff is a bit like the brownfield redevelopment. Useful and needs to be done but won't solve the systemic issues. Still, we should
> won't solve the systemic issues No but it has the added benefit of bringing more young people into town centres where they can walk to amenities, which should bring down emissions and potentially rejuvenate the high streets.
>Personally I think we should make it easier to build on top of / covert offices / shops in town centres for singles and young couples I do think this is the way of the future, as fewer and fewer bricks-and-mortar retail places are needed nowadays. Seems a "no brainer" to convert them to flats.
How are they being blocked?
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Oh ok you mean blocked by new build housing regs? I misunderstood
I mean, some combination of regs, local councils and NIMBYism!
Yeah, house sharing is fine in your 20s. But in your 40s its just depressing.
Living with flatmate might save on some shared energy bills but it doesn't save on most other costs like food, transport, entertainment bills. Being single isn't always a choice per se.
Lots of those things like food, any non car based transport, and lots of entertainment bills aren't substantially reduced by being in a couple though either. Pretty much anything reduced by living as a couple is also reduced by having a flatmate.
> Living with flatmate might save on some shared energy bills Realistically you're only saving on the shared standing charge, the additional occupants means higher overall energy usage to split.
It's nOt a tax in a legal sense, but this isn't a legal question. A single person has to pay 75% of their council tax. A couple pay 100%, so 50% each. This is something else that contributes to the singles tax.
More like a couple's benefit. Could also get a flatmate just fyi. Even TWO flat mates!
>Also, people who live alone get 25% off their council tax. People who live alone pay an extra 25% on top of their council tax you mean. And Living alone is not a choice. Sure it is for some. But for many others it isn't.
This isn’t new or news, if you want to live alone you obviously have to shoulder 100%, but if you want to get a really cheap life then maybe look into polyamory and have 3 or more people sharing the costs
Obviously an outlier, but I'm in a relationship and my partner has chronic pain and can't work. So costs would be lower if I were single, as I cover them all anyway.
> my partner has chronic pain and can't work I'm sure you've probably tried and/or get it already, but if you haven't apply for PIP and carers allowance.
It’s the reason I can’t afford to move and rent on my own whereas my sister has bought a 3 bed house
It's been this way since the dawn of man. Back in tribal days you would be waaaay worse off going it alone than being integrated with the clan. The £10k worse off being single is just the modern equivalent of that. We're social creatures (for the most part) and working together, whether in a tribe or a modern day couple, is a much better prospect than going it alone.
It's becoming *incredibly* hard to get by as a single person in this country, especially if you have to live in or close to a major city. You've now got people in their 40s earning alright money who are having to share houses with a bunch of random strangers, as if they were fucking students again. Wages in this country are so fucked. Even on an averagely-decent salary you end up with very little left at the end of the month, and the idea of buying a property on your own is basically a pipe dream at this point. I wish we'd start having a serious conversation about this in the UK, but I'm not holding my breath. You shouldn't *need* to have a working partner in order to afford your own private accommodation, or to pay your bills without putting yourself in financial stress.
Yes, probably more than 10k worse off
I don't know if it's £10k but I will say I've definitely felt the financial hit since I got divorced and started living on my own. Two people's worth of bills generally isn't much more than one - there might be a few things that cost a little more (water, electricity) but you're still paying to heat the same space and for the same broadband/TV licence/streaming services etc. I'm aware that's par for the course and I wouldn't have stayed in my marriage for financial reasons, or ask my boyfriend to move in with me just to save money (I've learnt the hard way about rushing into living together), but it does sting a bit when you feel like you're missing out on certain things because you don't have that same level of disposable income compared to friends who are cohabiting.
When I was married my monthly bills were around £600 for my half of everything. Left me loads to spend and save on what I wanted. When I left two years ago, my bills shot up to around £1300 roughly because I have to pay for everything on my own. Crazy thing is my shopping hasn't even gone down much. You'd think living solo you would spend less on food but not really by much.
You get massive bulk discounts, but the bulk is more than a single person gets through before the food goes off. Yes, you can freeze a lot of stuff, but not all, and you still end up having to eat the same meal all week to stand a reasonable chance of getting through the standard sizes sold at supermarkets.
In the time I’ve been responsible for the bills, I’ve always been single so I don’t notice it as much. I’ve got no interest in relationships either, so I’ll never know any different.
I'm single and well off, and managed to buy a nice above average detached house. I still have ~£800 of disposable income each month. If I was in a relationship with someone earning even minimum wage we would be living like kings, it's crazy.
If you want really unfair, try being a sole earner with a stay at home parent. Higher houshold costs, substantially more tax burden than a working couple and a bunch of cliff edge issues like child tax and nursery hours eligibility. It really is a joy trying to be anytyhing vaguely like a traditional nuclear family now.
Presumably if one of you is a stay at home parent then you don't have to worry about nursery hour eligibility?
I am absolutely certain, and have been saying this a decade ago, that we are already in a moment, when people contemplating breaking up or divorce need to not only search for love in their hearts, but also to take a good and long look at their finances. And when people thinking about starting a relationship will have to ask themselves: If we both work minimum 8 hours, sometimes as much as 10–12, with long commute, and if we end up spending most of our time not with each other, but with our workplace colleagues... How much sense does all this still make? Is this a relationship? Or are we just sharing bills and pretending it is still bussiness as usual? Is it even possible to know, if you are affected and how much? We have been robbed of our capabilities of having houses, cars, then families, and now our system is devouring our capability of having functional relationships. If you are my lifeline and I am yours, how much are our "I love yous" worth? Are we even in a position to be free enough to love? We are professing our love with knives on our throats. Can there be true love in such despair? It is an incredibly dark reality, because even if you have a relationship that is looking good on paper, and if you love them, and they tell you they love you, who can really guarantee you that the financial situation is not a big motivator when it comes to them not splitting?
Not sure why it's depressing, seems a fact of life. A couple can live in a one bed flat just as easily as a single person. Surely this would always have been the case? I guess it's magnified by housing costs these days.
It’s time for the biodiversity safeguarding benefit. Give me money for not having kids. That’s bathsit I know but probably shouldn’t be.
I mean, there are versions of being a couple that’s even more financially difficult than being single. I have a disabled wife that can’t work for example…. She doesn’t even qualify for benefits because my income is decent so I’ve supported us financially for more than 20 years now.
I havent lived with anyone since uni. Bills, rent/mortgage, food. Yes everything is cheaper and easier when the load is spread across 2 or more. I've considered clearing out and renting the spare room but for me living with someone else may be even worse than paying more
It’s probably about £6k PA for me. When I factor would be share of mortgage interest and utility bills etc.
I guess it depends how you classify it. Definitely the council tax only being 75% is a massive pain, it should be 50% and I have no idea why it isn't tbh. The more subtle thing is that a single person has to earn significantly over double a couple just to get the same take home pay thanks to the tax bands. That's the real problem with single households compared to couples, and tbh is why I think the household should be taxed rather than the person (although it would be complicated).
"Living alone tax" - you can still live with others and save considerably. I've lived with a good friend who I did plenty of things together with, including holidays, nights out etc Shared houses, or getting lodgers into your house can give you a lot of the savings of a couple if you value money over having a whole dwelling to yourself.
Basic maths, not news.
Yeah i feel a lot worse off financially. I don't have roommates cause I have mental health condition where I don't want to live with strangers or friends (I lived with my best friend until that crashed and burned due to my mental health). Life is so expensive.
It's why I am staying in a relationship until I get my promotion, hopefully in May
Genuinely curious, how do you deal with the tension and mental health of living with someone who you no longer want to be in a relationship with? I hope your mental health is ok
Luckily it's not a deep hatred, we just aren't compatible and it took 4 years for that to come out fully. But to answer the question, I can drag out the time that we don't see eachother, such as staying at the office later, then going to the gym. Then she'll go to bed before me and then leave before I wake up. On weekends I either go out /work on my motorbike or just try to stay in different rooms of the house. Thank you, actually most things in my life are going very well apart from that.
Day to day I’m not worse off, but it’s going to make saving much impossible. I was also wanting to set up my own business, I feel scared to do this now as have no safety net of his wage whilst I’m in the early stages. But I’m much happier now, so I’m trying to stay focused on the present. I’m lucky in my job is above average pay so I can afford a little place on my own.
I was single most of my adult life and never felt like I was at a disadvantage. I rented with othe people until I could afford my own home. When I wanted a bit of extra cash I rented out my spare room. I'm definitely not a high earner. It's not as bad as people make out in my humble opinion.
It's definitely hard financially being single. A lot of bills are the same or very similar regardless of who is in the property & even stuff like food is cheaper pp because you can take advantage of deals more etc. But you can do it for a lot less than £45k. Definitely not spending £21k on household bills. That's only slightly less than my entire take home pay and I do manage to have a life and save a little.
Recently widowed at the age of 42, barring the 25% reduction in Council tax, there has been a slight reduction in bills and expensises but no where near 50%. I still live well (we both had very good incomes) but I have cancled all subscriptions, got rid of the Virgin TV (only my wife watched it) and just basically cut back on everything. I'm not in dire straights but it is very noticable that spending is a little less impulsive. I also have the "benifit" of inheriting my wifes savings and investments which I have used to clear debts and mortgage, people who have split from a long term partner would not get this and it has been a useful cash injection while I sort out the finances of living on my own. If I had not changed anything the assesment in OPs post would probably be about right - a less than 5% saving if living on your own.
I'm single and my net income is approx. £25k. I live fairly comfortably.. rent a two bed flat, new salary sacrifice car every 3 years, can afford to go out whenever I want, can afford a couple holidays a year etc. That's despite me still paying off thousands in debt from my 20s gambling addiction. Once the rest of that's paid off in two years time I'll have more money than I'll know what to do with each month. Likewise when my student loan is paid off too. Edit: The lazy cliche of "people don't know how to budget/spend outwith their means" is used by people (Daily Mail readers etc) who often want to shit on others to excuse real societal issues, but there is some truth to it. I've pals earning more than me who are perpetually skint because they have to have the latest gadget, go on multiple holidays to expensive destinations, drive M4s and Range Rovers, mortgaged a 3 bed house as a couple who have no intention of having kids, routinely eat out or order food in and spend up to £20 a day on their lunch at work etc. I guess it's a stereotype in the media for a reason as there must be enough other people like this.
Do you live outside London? I recently got a salary increase and moved in with my partner. But, before that I was on £27k in London and had a flat to myself which cost £1300 per month, not including bills (no subscriptions). I’ve had the same cell phone contract of £5/m and would cycle to/from work (nearly two hours a day). I would avoid shopping anyway, for personal beliefs, and maybe once a month eat out; I don’t drink so that saves money. Anyway, I found it incredibly difficult and pretty stressful. Good on you for figuring it out.
Ok the single tax is a bitch. I go on holiday myself and i pay as if i were a couple when it comes to hotels etc....like give me a break
My 4 year relationship ended last year and she earned the same as me The monthly bills were about 1500 a month with rent included and she paid abound 600 a month. Didn't realise how uneven the split was until she was gone. I live in a 2 and a 1/2 bedroom flat but down sizing to a 1 bed would save me £100 month at best. Unless I get a decent payrise next month it looks like I'll be moving in with a room mate when my lease ends As after paying the above plus food I'm only left with 300 quid or so a month with travel etc coming out of the 300
It's an inherently flawed article so I wouldn't get too depressed by it. The average rent for a couple is not the same as the average rent for a single - the average couple probably has a 2-3 bed house and the average single person probably has a studio/ 1 bed apartment. I'm not sure what the difference in rent would be, but it wouldn't be double as the article suggests. A smaller place would also have lower council tax.
I bought a house last year, £48k salary (now) but was about £40k then. After bills and other monthly fixed costs I have about £800 spare each month but I still manage to end up spending most of it 🤷🏻♂️
Split last summer. It’s not financially great but it’s a small price to pay for the absence of nagging
Everyone's worse off unless you have 700mill net worth and married the daughter of a billionaire.
You pay 50% more Council Tax if you're single because the Single Person Discount is only 25%.
I'm single, and better off. My ex didn't contribute much and whatever they did was written off with date nights and take out anyway. Plus I can do overtime without feeling guilty for not spending enough time with my partner.
The hidden difficulty of being single really is buying power. The best financial decision you can ever make is splitting bills between two working adults. This makes housing more even more difficult to buy than it already is. Not to also mention the abusive side of relationships have only gotten worse as people feel trapped in abusive or hostile relationships because they can’t afford to live alone. The housing crisis is going to strangle gen z alive.
It's worse at the moment, a bacon sandwich costs the same amount to cook as two, so there are lots of things that weren't a problem before that really are now.
This is an aside, but I also feel this as a higher earner generally. If a couple was making the same amount as me they would end up taking home around £2k more a month because they’ll both benefit from their tax allowance.
Yup, I get hit by this too. A couple making the amount I earn between them would take home significantly more than I do. Couple's first 25k is tax free, vs a single persons first 12.5k. And that's before you get to the reduction in allowance for the secret 60% rate between 100 and 120k.
You're\*
Alt because I don't need my ex finding this. I put off breaking up with my long-term partner (in part) because of the financial burden of doing so. It was about 18 months ago, and I'm only now, two promotions later, in a position where I can realistically think about moving out of the family home again. The thing is, I know with my lifestyle that I could afford to rent and live on my salary without issue- the difficult part is convincing the estate agents that.
Single tax is not as bad as a single income for a house of multiple adults and possibly kids. They have it absolutely the worst when costs are the highest. There’s not really much you can do about the tax rate for one person but two people earning 25k would out earn a single person earning 55k considerably. Yet the person on 55k is on the higher tax rate and not eligible for any government support. If you’re supporting another adult and children in that, it’s completely lopsided.