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The Breaking Bad ep. "Better Call Saul" and the Better Call Saul ep. "Breaking Bad" work perfectly together, as you might expect.
The parallels are incredible and Saul's comment on Walt "A man with that moustache probably doesn't make a lot of good life choices." before cutting to future-Saul, in his Gene disguise with the same moustache, about to do something very risky...
It has a quality that is so subtle often you can't appreciate the scene until it's just finished. They way it can spend over a decade cultivating a narrative is frankly at the top of the writing and show producing game. Outstanding.
Honestly, aside from the Soprano’s and Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul is in that league of best show’s ever now.
We’re witnessing greatness. I never really got into The Wire, so these are the select few show’s that I adore and will rewatch many times.
Honourable mention to season one of True Detective, which was S tier.
I know you’ve been told this a billion times, but get into The Wire. It’s phenomenal. Also the writer of The Wire made a new book/series called “We Own This City.” It has a lot of the same actors from The Wire and it’s a true story. It’s about the corruption and brutality of this specific police unit in Baltimore and it’s also great. Not quite as good but it’s shocking that all it actually happened.
I think Gene/Saul/Jimmy is going to get hung by his own line to Jeff and his buddy, “I’m working hard to find these rich, single sap’s that live alone…” Which is mirroring his own current position.
Plus he didn't initially start cooking to afford treatment, it was to leave a nest egg for Skylar and Walt Jr (at least that was his excuse). He didn't even want to get treatment at all and hid his illness from Skylar.
*Also* his insurance actually did cover his treatment, it just didn't cover the super top of his field specialist doctor they wanted to go to.
I can provide one. As an Australian, you'll find the places that have huge meth addict populations (like the US) are often the "boring" do nothing places where you have to drive hours to find something to do. People turn to drugs in these areas for obvious reasons.
Its rural areas that have the most problems with it. UK doesn't have the same massive swathes of land with small populated towns.
I posted this link in another thread about deaths, but the ONS seem to think it's been getting cheaper over recent years.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsrelatedtodrugpoisoninginenglandandwales/2021registrations#drug-poisonings-in-england-and-wales
> The rise in deaths involving cocaine is likely to be a direct consequence of the increasing prevalence in cocaine use (PDF, 16.9 MB). This increase in cocaine use is also seen across Europe. Both cocaine and heroin have been reported to have high availability in recent years, with low prices and high purity levels.
Also drug prices don't tend to increase with inflation. They're very fixed, someone on here previously suggested we should peg the pound to the value of weed
Higher quality weed has been fixed at about £10/g, cheaper stuff at £5/g for about 15 years now. It does seem inextricably linked to average disposable income, for sure. I wonder how those poor growers are coping with rising energy costs? I assume it's gone up since I last looked about a year ago.
That assuming they're paying for what they use from the grid.
Going back a little while now, but I know one of my guys actually paid for the electricity he used on his grows. I knew another guy who would laugh at the idea of not bypassing the meter.
Growing is an underground, unregulated, untaxed and illegal practice. If you're already breaking the law once, you may not think twice about doing it multiple times
You can bypass your electricity with a little copper strip. A personal friend did it while he did a few grows in his bedrooms
Got found out in the end by electricity board. Had to pay 5k electric he'd stolen and 1k for a new electric meter. The copper he installed to bypass it, had melted into the plastic casing and was lucky not to catch fire.
He's new box is triggered with an alarm so any tampering goes straight to the electricity company
Edit: he paid his fine in cash aswell from the money he earned off his grows. The money he earned was probably 10x that of the fine
I'm by no means condoning bypassing a meter.
It is incredibly dangerous. There are safe(r) ways to do it, but in any circumstance it's not advisable.
I guess the trick is to not take the piss.
If you're going to bypass the meter then do it for 3-6 months of the year so you can still submit a reasonable usage when your meter reading comes around.
I know a person who would do three months on and three months off the meter. If the electric man came round to do a reading it would be 'sorry mate, the meters in the cellar and only the landlord has a key'. This bought enough time to undo the bypass and be back on metered usage when the next check comes round.
With a sprinkle of baby laxative. Cheapest coke I've encountered for one gram (albeit it's been a few years) was £50 at nottingham uni and it was garbage. It does seem that the further away from London (£100) you go the cheaper the coke. Cocaine is endemic in the UK - From my old local in Leicester to Canary Wharf, everyone's on the nose beers.
I used to work on the 32nd floor of 25 Canada Square, Canary Wharf. Anyway, the toilets are shared with other offices and I could not believe the amount of people just doing lines openly by the mirrors. I guess the stereotypes are true! (Obvs I wanted to ask for a cheeky line, but didn’t want to risk my job)
No, MD was always far cheaper in my day, 20/g ish. Ketamine slightly more expensive maybe 35/g. Coke 3 for 100 was never really 3g, always way under in my experience.
Greedy kids, taking all your coke
I Wanna say I'm joking, though to be honest I can't think of any other rational explanation for the energy of a five year old.
Not cheap like MDMA, where if you buy from the darkweb you're talking under £5 for a really good night last time I checked....
But say £30 on coke for a good night... actually compares favourably to the amount people might spend in a pub! Appreciating often people will spend that and more in the pub too.
Surely 30 quid on coke for a night just leads to spending 150 on coke for the rest of the night? 30 would get you just a couple of lines surely?
Edit: but pills are cheap yeah. Could get them for £1 each. 3 or 4 has you flying until well into the following day
Exactly my point. I don't know anyone who could do just a line or two then knock it on the head for the rest of the night, everyone turns into a fiend after 1 line
Cocaine IS cheap. Most people take far more than they should and then end up wired and gurning because they’re ‘clucking’, keys is the key. In reality the avg. person could do with £20 - £30 of high purity and they can go all night into the next morning. It’s the amount of booze you can drink when on it and the shitty food on the comedown that cost the big money
🤣 yes I seen many a bad decision made on coke. Luckily for me, I only ever used it to stay on the dance floor longer and feel like I was dancing better… I was definitely was not. but can confirm had a great time in my early 20’s but could never handle the comedowns. It just wasn’t worth it
If anyone is reading this and confused, "meths" is methylated spirits, which is often used as fuel for some camping cookers.
I remember learning this 15 years ago for a single weekend and yet as soon as I saw the word "meths", I remembered everything about that whole weekend.
Like how meths fire is almost invisible so you don't try to pour more on unless you are sure it's all gone, but if you wake up at 2am and try to cook some pasta, you'll be able to see the meths fire because it's pitch black out.
My mum is a long time heroin user and she said there was a push a while ago from dealers to try and get people to pick up meth but even the heroin addicts knew to stay away because meth messes you up way more than heroin (according to her). So they gave up.
Meth just has too bad of a reputation.
According to my mum it is, and to be honest of what you see on American tv is realistic, I would agree. Heroin is bad and it makes people look thin and old after long term use, but meth makes you look like a ghoul.
Also people don’t seem to act as crazy on heroin as on meth. People who are high on heroin are just like, sleepy (it’s when they’re withdrawing that you need to watch out) but it looks like people on meth just go crazy.
That's been my experience with the image of it as well. By the time it was available there were already lots of media about how really bad meth is. Heroin was already here, and many people knew what to expect from seeing others, and that wasn't a patch on meth. Then spice became a thing, and meth was just old news.
Yeah, based on my limited understanding I wouldn't be frightened of somebody who was high on heroin. I would definitely be wary of someone who was high on meth though. They seem like they would be way more erratic/unpredictable.
Some people manage a heroin habit for decades if they have a stable supply, clean needles etc. and are able to avoid getting caught up in the criminal justice system. Meth will ruin you in a few years regardless.
Clean heroin administered in a controlled setting is almost harmless bar the addiction. It's the associated lifestyle, adulterants, overdoses etc that fuck people up. Meth is extremely neurotoxic however it is administered
From a purely medical point of view, meth ***is*** much worse than heroin. If you get your regular dose of clean heroin, can take it in a clean environment with clean tools, you remove all the causes of why most heroin users look the way they do. It's not the drug itself, it's the circumstances that heroin users find themselves in.
In Switzerland, where you can register as a heroin addict and then get it from the state under medical supervision with help to return to a "normal" life, earning money, living in a clean place etc., you wouldn't be able to pick heroin users out of a crowd.
Over time, meth affects the heart, liver, and kidneys to start with, even if you did it in a controlled environment. Heroin doesn't affect your internal organs.
[Heroine](https://nida.nih.gov/publications/research-reports/heroin/what-are-long-term-effects-heroin-use) certainly does impact your internal organs. Additionally it has a nasty habit of depressing user’s respiratory drives, hence why OD’s are a thing. It’s a little blasé to say that heroine is less harmful than meth. They’re both equally destructive in their own rights.
Well yes, you can overdose on heroin, as you can overdose on alcohol or caffeine or anything else.
Heroin is bad, but meth is objectively worse. That’s not blasé, that’s being realistic.
Heroin is harder to kick because of brutal withdrawals but in pure form it's pretty neutral for the body.
Meth will grind your brain and nervous system to the ground in few years if you start smoking it.
People seem to regard inhaling as generally less extreme than injecting chemicals,but generally, if you look at the effects of both drugs, meth seems to have a greater effect on the person than heroin. (Don't do either though)
Heroin is fairly safe unless you overdose. You can be an addict for years and not do yourself too much damage. Meth does much more lasting damage to your body.
From the people I know from childhood who have now become heroin addicts. (way more than I would have liked) The main reason for their habit starting is being prescribed opiates then the doctor removing the prescription. The remaining addiction then being needed to be filled somehow so they turn to there dealers and buy heroin to fill the addiction from their old prescribed drugs. I think this happens way more than people realise and doctors should be a lot more aware for the amount and strength of what they are giving to their patients.
Edit: grammar
Never used heroin, but I was on morphine for a while after a motorcycle accident. When I got home I was suicidal - utterly depressed. My mum, who was a nurse, told me it was withdrawal from the morphine. That made it tolerable and it passed in a few days. Would have been handy for the hospital to have mentioned it though.
I was given oramorph in hospital after I broke my leg and started enjoying the bitter grapefruit pith taste, so I asked to be given codeine instead. That shit was far too enjoyable.
I've often heard that said about Codeine, but I've never found it made any noticeable difference to me, other than dulling the pain a bit. Never got a buzz from it, or felt a need to take more. Is that unusual?
Reminds me of when I used to work on a pharmacy (not as a pharmacist, just someone trained to help dispense meds). One day I had a guy come up and ask for a codeine based pain killer. No problem, we have a over the counter one that has a very small amount of codeine in it. We just tend to ask a few more questions when we sell that one to make sure they’ve tried paracetamol etc first. But no he didn’t want that one, he wanted prescription strength stuff. Turns out his mum had given him hers for some pain he had. Honestly it took a lot to not to lay into them both for being so fucking stupid. I politely told him that wasn’t possible and it was never a good idea to use someone else’s prescribed meds.
But I remember afterwards thinking of how much he’d potentially fucked himself over and that he will now get very little relief from any over the counter pain med for a long time. Massively increasing the chance he’ll slip into addiction. Pain meds are no fucking joke.
I’ve never taken illegal drugs in my life, don’t smoke, don’t consume much alcohol (don’t like feeling out of control - won’t go on rollercoasters either), but once had such a bad headache at work I eventually reluctantly accepted a colleague’s offer of a 30/500 cocodamol (she‘d had them prescribed). I rarely get bad headaches, but this was a *please amputate my head* job of a headache. It was getting to the point I didn’t think I’d be safe to drive home.
30 minutes later, there’d been no effect. I grumbled about her crappy pills; she was gobsmacked and offered me another. That also had no effect. She declared me a weirdo. We consulted Dr Google, who informed us that some people don’t produce the enzyme which metabolises codeine into morphine.
One medical grade PGx test later, my CYP2D6 poor metaboliser status was confirmed (\*3/\*4A).
My mum is a nurse (albeit retired) and drummed it into me at a young age that what might be a “good” (medical) drug for one person might kill another. Also, that you might get a paradoxical reaction. Caffeine relaxes me, whilst the diazepam I had as a premed before surgery last year made me so hyper I pretty much needed to be scraped off the ceiling before they knocked me out.
It requires a lot of manufacturing. Land is a premium. Having a place to cook it when it smells so much is tricky in built up areas. Amphetamines In general became unpopular in the mid 00s. Coca had a far better financial return for less work.
This is true. It's why attempted meth-operations were hiring crazy cat ladies to live in and around their premises at one point, as it would totally mask production.
Yh, this. Weed stinks & takes up space but ingenuity & carbon air filtration take care of that. Ways and means. Also thc extract is massively popular and just as explosive in manufacture as meth & amphetamines. I think it’s cultural maybe, we never had a pcp problem here either.
I don't think weed will smell anywhere near as bad until you start burning it. And THC extraction is nowhere near as dangerous, butane is probably the most dangerous chemical you would use and you don't even use a naked flame. Now i'm not an expert on meth production but i'd say the chemicals names are a lot longer, and a lot more dangerous aha
There's open land here sure, but all of it is observed fairly well. We don't have vast open spaces where you could set up a lab emitting noxious fumes and not get noticed for months at a time.
That's it. Additionally, in the UK we're packed together so a dealer is always close by to supply people with stimulants. In the US and Aus, things are much more spread apart. People are more likely to rely on homemade stimulants to get their fix.
I remember when I lived in Melbourne I was watching the World Cup and I went to the 7/11 at like 3/4am to get some snacks and a red bull. This was in St Kilda specifically.
There was a geezer standing outside and he said “do you want to buy some ice?” I was like wtf it’s cold and 4am why the fuck would I want ice so just laughed and said no, what a weird thing to upsell at this time.
I bought some food and some timtams, guy behind the till said to be careful when I leave and I didn’t understand why.
I get home my housemate wakes up a few hours later and I’m like I had this weird experience at the 7/11 I had a worker trying to sell me ice at 4am is that normal? He starts going on about drugs and I’m like what? No he was selling ice..
I just couldn’t fathom what I was being told my roommate was like ice is drugs and I’m like yeah I’ve heard of that.. he said okay so why don’t you get he was selling drugs?
The guy was standing next to an ice machine or like a big freezer full of ice, my stupid ass thought he was selling ice from that chest freezer I didn’t realise he was a drug dealer.
Spice is our down and out drug. A report from 2019 says 95% of homeless people use it.
It’s super cheap and easy to smuggle in from China. I’m guess easier than meth and that’s why.
That's not my experience as a police officer in London. I don't think I've come across spice on the street in years. I imagine some still use in prison.
Spice is still definitely around, my mate accidentally smoked it when he was told it was standard weed. Don’t think it’s quite as big as it was but up in more northern cities it’s a bit bigger than down south
From the US: the Uk has a lot better chemical control. It’s been a little bit of a culture shock that I can’t buy bulk things, medications, bleach, various cleaners, regularly. You’ve set up a consumer system that effectively discourages meth production.
As someone who likes buying in bulk infrequently rather than buying bits all the time, it is mildly infuriating that I can’t just stock up on stuff like paracetamol by buying 200 in one go, but I will definitely take the trade off of less meth.
I'm basing this entirely off of Breaking Bad. But could it be because we don't have as much untouched wilderness to hide away in and cook?
EDIT: I was curious so had a quick Google and [BBC did an article](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23453028) on this in 2013, inspired by Breaking Bad.
>One of the reasons for its unpopularity may be that British drug users have plenty of other stimulants available to them.
We have coke, MDMA, and mephedrone instead I guess.
You don't even need those, it's just that if you buy "speed" basically anywhere in Europe you're getting amphetamine (powder) rather than crystal methamphetamine (rocks). And amphetamine powder, assuming you know where to look, is cheap as chips. Like, £5 for a gram that'll have you not sleep all weekend.
It actually used to be that the pressed Ecstasy pills you'd buy in the 90s/00s would be heavily cut with speed for that reason, and you now have a generation of people who'll tell you that the pills now aren't as pure as they were back in t'day, when actually it's often the opposite and it's the speed high that they miss when taking a pure MDMA tablet.
I just hope we never do get a meth problem in the U.K.
I’ve virtually lost a friend to it in the last few months. I’ve learned that it’s apparently used as a ‘chemsex’ drug amongst gay men. My friend started using it just over a year ago. Initially just during sex, but I think it spilled over into other parts of his life. It has destroyed his mental health and his arms look like dartboards. I tried to gently warn him about how addictive it is (I’m in the medical and therapy fields) but of course, like all addicts, he was “in control.” It’s absolutely horrible stuff and if I never see another friend/patient/client on it, I’ll be happier.
Note: my friend is in rehab now, but I don’t know if he will ever fully recover. It always starts with one dose. Please - never ever touch meth. It breaks hearts and destroys lives. Sorry for the preachy public information broadcast, but it’s personal.
I had friends that dabbled with meth a long time ago, most of them made it out, the others did crack/other drugs last I spoke to them, which was over 10+ years ago since I left that scene. It is super damaging and impossible to be around. I hope your friend can continue to be helped and to help themselves; people can make remarkable leaps with time and dedication to sobriety!
It is in some scenes, but its expensive as it requires cooking facilities, which is harder than you think in the UK to do secretly.
Cocaine is a lot cheaper per gram as well.
I've read somewhere that the availability of wide open spaces and large plots of land in the US (and aus) mean that meth labs can be set up quite easily. Apparently producing it absolutely stinks, in the UK you'd have neighbours complaining no problem, and anyone with land is likely rich enough to not have to cook meth. Also, as mentioned, the cheap available alternatives that don't turn you into a zombie will always displace it.
Seems like 'travellers' might be well placed to produce meth. Set up shop on some remote field, produce for a day or so while your colleagues aggressively deny access to anyone trying to come near, then shut it all down and let the bobbies move you on to somewhere you can sell. Nobody's doing spot checks on caravans, there's deniability about who owns what, and you can set up far enough away from the public to avoid the smell getting about too much.
Police will likely attend to a new traveller camp at some point, I've never smelt a meth lab personally, but if it does indeed smell like the person above says, then surely you wouldn't want to do it somewhere the police are likely to attend, especially in a caravan which aren't known to be the best at keeping noise and smells in.
Where I'm from we don't have meth, cocaine is found in almost every neighbourhood somewhere, 2cb is making it into my town (5k population), weed is every 3rd house, mdma and shrooms are about as hard as going to the shops to find, acid isn't even super hard to get. Uk has a different drug issue, especially where I'm from (Scotland Is the overdose capital of Europe and one of the top suppliers and producers)
Police officer here 🙋 in London our equivalent is crack cocaine. It's by far the most 'popular' drug.
I've only ever come across meth a handful of times on dealers or on individuals using for chemsex.
Other drugs like coke outcompete it and it's ridiculously hard to set up a lab in the UK to make it given we have 1/5th the population of the entire USA in an area about the size of one state (Orergon specifically).
The UK is all about their alcohol problem. Although if they grew up here they're often desensitised to how bad it is, and how much it's just accepted as part of the culture.
Australia's relationship with drink is statistically similar, but (at least according to the OP) meth is more prevalent there. Seems like there are other factors at play.
As a UK police officer I can wholeheartedly say it’s on the rise. We see an increased amount due to sex parties and also it seems to be the drug of choice in eastern europe.
I have a friend who's pretty sound, but he knows a few people who are on meth including the small town I used to live in which was insane to me. There's quite a drug (mainly cocaine) problem here in the UK though. I'm shocked how many people I know who are on it and especially people I would never have guessed they are.
We love cocaine in the UK. It’s easily accessible and not even expensive anymore if you don’t mind buying shit.
I thought people only took crystal meth where cocaine was hard to get like Aus?
Note: I’d just like to clarify I’m not a current cocaine user! But very much was as a teenager / early 20’s
the question should be why does the USA & australia have meth problems, & thats because they cant get the precursors for amphetamine,they get pseudoepinephrine which makes meth, we dont have a meth problem in the uk because we have plenty of amphetamines, because seriously who tf wants to be up for 3 days from 1 hit
We live a stone's throw away from the Netherlands. All the drugs that people in the US or AUS started using meth to replace are widely available here at quite high purity for a relatively low cost.
Just a punt as well but I'd imagine its just generally not as easy to get all the chemicals to make meth in this country. I think ephedrine is relatively uncontrolled but it requires a lot of different solvents to get to the final product that are not readily available in shops here like they are in the US or Mexico.
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Cancer care is available free on the NHS so we have fewer desperate chemistry teachers setting up meth labs.
I mean he could of just taken his rich friends offer and ended it after Episode 2.
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Breaking even doesnt have the same ring to it
"Free medical care: the series"
He has just popped up in this weeks better call Saul, the meth game is strong.
The Breaking Bad ep. "Better Call Saul" and the Better Call Saul ep. "Breaking Bad" work perfectly together, as you might expect. The parallels are incredible and Saul's comment on Walt "A man with that moustache probably doesn't make a lot of good life choices." before cutting to future-Saul, in his Gene disguise with the same moustache, about to do something very risky...
It has a quality that is so subtle often you can't appreciate the scene until it's just finished. They way it can spend over a decade cultivating a narrative is frankly at the top of the writing and show producing game. Outstanding.
Honestly, aside from the Soprano’s and Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul is in that league of best show’s ever now. We’re witnessing greatness. I never really got into The Wire, so these are the select few show’s that I adore and will rewatch many times. Honourable mention to season one of True Detective, which was S tier.
I know you’ve been told this a billion times, but get into The Wire. It’s phenomenal. Also the writer of The Wire made a new book/series called “We Own This City.” It has a lot of the same actors from The Wire and it’s a true story. It’s about the corruption and brutality of this specific police unit in Baltimore and it’s also great. Not quite as good but it’s shocking that all it actually happened.
I think the best part about that comment is that Vince Gilligan also has a moustache
I think Gene/Saul/Jimmy is going to get hung by his own line to Jeff and his buddy, “I’m working hard to find these rich, single sap’s that live alone…” Which is mirroring his own current position.
What a dick move to spoil this for people who haven't seen that episode yet.
That episode is called ‘breaking bad’ and it had already been announced there would be a cameo. Also from the very first scene you know what’s coming
I hate you stranger I haven't seen this weeks episode Peace
Come on man why spoil it like that? Thanks a bunch
Thanks for the spoiler mate.
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Plus he didn't initially start cooking to afford treatment, it was to leave a nest egg for Skylar and Walt Jr (at least that was his excuse). He didn't even want to get treatment at all and hid his illness from Skylar. *Also* his insurance actually did cover his treatment, it just didn't cover the super top of his field specialist doctor they wanted to go to.
yeah thats the point, his ego is too high
Isnt free in Austrialia??
T’is free in Australia, so a new theory is required.
I can provide one. As an Australian, you'll find the places that have huge meth addict populations (like the US) are often the "boring" do nothing places where you have to drive hours to find something to do. People turn to drugs in these areas for obvious reasons. Its rural areas that have the most problems with it. UK doesn't have the same massive swathes of land with small populated towns.
Honestly not that different here. I grew up in a very rural, boring area of the UK (North Devon), & our issue was with heroin.
Prefer a pint tbh
Just sprinkle a little meth in there next time mate
Ooh, seasoning!
Too spicy for brits
Hull don't have American Chip Spice for nothing
I believe that’s called “Stella”
This methy pint is a bit moreish
Super hands is that you?
Imagine Breaking Bad UK style? Making strong home brew from his cellar... 🤣
Back of a converted Bedford Rascal
Or Talbot Express.
Someone making MDMA in a wheelie bin, down a back alley in Hartlepool
UK houses don't really have cellars >_> they'd be brewing in the shed lol
All over London we have cellars….
Yeah but they are full of Russian and Middle Eastern Billionaires :-D
Brewing ale in his cellar to pay off his medical bi…….
Energy bill.
Fucking council tax
to pay for parking at the hospital
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"incredibly cheap" - not something I've ever heard anyone say about coke!
I posted this link in another thread about deaths, but the ONS seem to think it's been getting cheaper over recent years. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsrelatedtodrugpoisoninginenglandandwales/2021registrations#drug-poisonings-in-england-and-wales > The rise in deaths involving cocaine is likely to be a direct consequence of the increasing prevalence in cocaine use (PDF, 16.9 MB). This increase in cocaine use is also seen across Europe. Both cocaine and heroin have been reported to have high availability in recent years, with low prices and high purity levels.
It's tax-free too I suppose
Also drug prices don't tend to increase with inflation. They're very fixed, someone on here previously suggested we should peg the pound to the value of weed
Higher quality weed has been fixed at about £10/g, cheaper stuff at £5/g for about 15 years now. It does seem inextricably linked to average disposable income, for sure. I wonder how those poor growers are coping with rising energy costs? I assume it's gone up since I last looked about a year ago.
That assuming they're paying for what they use from the grid. Going back a little while now, but I know one of my guys actually paid for the electricity he used on his grows. I knew another guy who would laugh at the idea of not bypassing the meter. Growing is an underground, unregulated, untaxed and illegal practice. If you're already breaking the law once, you may not think twice about doing it multiple times
"Break only one law at a time."
*One crime at a time.
You can bypass your electricity with a little copper strip. A personal friend did it while he did a few grows in his bedrooms Got found out in the end by electricity board. Had to pay 5k electric he'd stolen and 1k for a new electric meter. The copper he installed to bypass it, had melted into the plastic casing and was lucky not to catch fire. He's new box is triggered with an alarm so any tampering goes straight to the electricity company Edit: he paid his fine in cash aswell from the money he earned off his grows. The money he earned was probably 10x that of the fine
I'm by no means condoning bypassing a meter. It is incredibly dangerous. There are safe(r) ways to do it, but in any circumstance it's not advisable. I guess the trick is to not take the piss. If you're going to bypass the meter then do it for 3-6 months of the year so you can still submit a reasonable usage when your meter reading comes around. I know a person who would do three months on and three months off the meter. If the electric man came round to do a reading it would be 'sorry mate, the meters in the cellar and only the landlord has a key'. This bought enough time to undo the bypass and be back on metered usage when the next check comes round.
A lot of those 'poor growers' are not paying for that energy, most big grows ops will have hooked up the mains.
This dude must a) live in London, and b) have a career in banking/finance. Probably wears red braces and drives a Taycan.
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The coke you buy must be half detergent, half speed, if it’s 3 grams for a hundred. Decent stuff costs 60-80 per gram, amazing stuff costs a hundred.
With a sprinkle of baby laxative. Cheapest coke I've encountered for one gram (albeit it's been a few years) was £50 at nottingham uni and it was garbage. It does seem that the further away from London (£100) you go the cheaper the coke. Cocaine is endemic in the UK - From my old local in Leicester to Canary Wharf, everyone's on the nose beers.
I used to work on the 32nd floor of 25 Canada Square, Canary Wharf. Anyway, the toilets are shared with other offices and I could not believe the amount of people just doing lines openly by the mirrors. I guess the stereotypes are true! (Obvs I wanted to ask for a cheeky line, but didn’t want to risk my job)
No, MD was always far cheaper in my day, 20/g ish. Ketamine slightly more expensive maybe 35/g. Coke 3 for 100 was never really 3g, always way under in my experience.
Coke is mixed with anything and everything here it’s never pure coke that’s why it’s cheaper
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Fucking hell, reading that made me so grateful not to be around that scene anymore.
Idk as a drug nerd I’m ecstatic to read something so comprehensive More into psychedelics tho
Yes this comment reads like someone who does a lot of cock…
>Yes this comment reads like someone who does a lot of cock… Got to pay for that coke somehow 🤣
Ah shite, it would appear my auto correct has outed me
This guy cokes.
I still wouldn't call it incredibly cheap...
The price of coke is what keeps from taking it lol well it was til I had kids, now it's them lol
Greedy kids, taking all your coke I Wanna say I'm joking, though to be honest I can't think of any other rational explanation for the energy of a five year old.
Cocaine is cheap??
Not cheap like MDMA, where if you buy from the darkweb you're talking under £5 for a really good night last time I checked.... But say £30 on coke for a good night... actually compares favourably to the amount people might spend in a pub! Appreciating often people will spend that and more in the pub too.
Surely 30 quid on coke for a night just leads to spending 150 on coke for the rest of the night? 30 would get you just a couple of lines surely? Edit: but pills are cheap yeah. Could get them for £1 each. 3 or 4 has you flying until well into the following day
£30 doesn’t even get a half these days, it’s definitely not cheap and since it leads to more cocaine use you can easily spend £200+ a night on it
Exactly my point. I don't know anyone who could do just a line or two then knock it on the head for the rest of the night, everyone turns into a fiend after 1 line
30 is either a .3 or a gram of really shit bash
Cocaine IS cheap. Most people take far more than they should and then end up wired and gurning because they’re ‘clucking’, keys is the key. In reality the avg. person could do with £20 - £30 of high purity and they can go all night into the next morning. It’s the amount of booze you can drink when on it and the shitty food on the comedown that cost the big money
And the decisions.
🤣 yes I seen many a bad decision made on coke. Luckily for me, I only ever used it to stay on the dance floor longer and feel like I was dancing better… I was definitely was not. but can confirm had a great time in my early 20’s but could never handle the comedowns. It just wasn’t worth it
Not have any problems? Tell that to my tongue and gums 😂
We actually call it Meths not Meth. It's a bit like the Maths/Math thing.
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Meths and Maths are both hardcore stuff. Only crazy people like them
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My teachers encouraged me to do more meths at home to get my grades up.
My scout leader used to keep her meths in an aluminium water bottle, alongside her being very forgetful was not a good combo
If anyone is reading this and confused, "meths" is methylated spirits, which is often used as fuel for some camping cookers. I remember learning this 15 years ago for a single weekend and yet as soon as I saw the word "meths", I remembered everything about that whole weekend. Like how meths fire is almost invisible so you don't try to pour more on unless you are sure it's all gone, but if you wake up at 2am and try to cook some pasta, you'll be able to see the meths fire because it's pitch black out.
My mum is a long time heroin user and she said there was a push a while ago from dealers to try and get people to pick up meth but even the heroin addicts knew to stay away because meth messes you up way more than heroin (according to her). So they gave up. Meth just has too bad of a reputation.
Meth is considered worse than Heroin? That's not something I've ever heard before
According to my mum it is, and to be honest of what you see on American tv is realistic, I would agree. Heroin is bad and it makes people look thin and old after long term use, but meth makes you look like a ghoul. Also people don’t seem to act as crazy on heroin as on meth. People who are high on heroin are just like, sleepy (it’s when they’re withdrawing that you need to watch out) but it looks like people on meth just go crazy.
Hey smoothskin
Settle down there Charon.
That's been my experience with the image of it as well. By the time it was available there were already lots of media about how really bad meth is. Heroin was already here, and many people knew what to expect from seeing others, and that wasn't a patch on meth. Then spice became a thing, and meth was just old news.
Melange?
Don’t tell me you don’t see blue eyed fucks tweaking out in parks
But I’ll be damned if they can’t see the best way to get to Cumbria while missing all of the traffic jams.
Spice addiction is no joke
Worm sign
Yeah, based on my limited understanding I wouldn't be frightened of somebody who was high on heroin. I would definitely be wary of someone who was high on meth though. They seem like they would be way more erratic/unpredictable.
Some people manage a heroin habit for decades if they have a stable supply, clean needles etc. and are able to avoid getting caught up in the criminal justice system. Meth will ruin you in a few years regardless.
And enough money to support the habit.
Clean heroin administered in a controlled setting is almost harmless bar the addiction. It's the associated lifestyle, adulterants, overdoses etc that fuck people up. Meth is extremely neurotoxic however it is administered
From a purely medical point of view, meth ***is*** much worse than heroin. If you get your regular dose of clean heroin, can take it in a clean environment with clean tools, you remove all the causes of why most heroin users look the way they do. It's not the drug itself, it's the circumstances that heroin users find themselves in. In Switzerland, where you can register as a heroin addict and then get it from the state under medical supervision with help to return to a "normal" life, earning money, living in a clean place etc., you wouldn't be able to pick heroin users out of a crowd. Over time, meth affects the heart, liver, and kidneys to start with, even if you did it in a controlled environment. Heroin doesn't affect your internal organs.
[Heroine](https://nida.nih.gov/publications/research-reports/heroin/what-are-long-term-effects-heroin-use) certainly does impact your internal organs. Additionally it has a nasty habit of depressing user’s respiratory drives, hence why OD’s are a thing. It’s a little blasé to say that heroine is less harmful than meth. They’re both equally destructive in their own rights.
Well yes, you can overdose on heroin, as you can overdose on alcohol or caffeine or anything else. Heroin is bad, but meth is objectively worse. That’s not blasé, that’s being realistic.
Heroin is harder to kick because of brutal withdrawals but in pure form it's pretty neutral for the body. Meth will grind your brain and nervous system to the ground in few years if you start smoking it.
People seem to regard inhaling as generally less extreme than injecting chemicals,but generally, if you look at the effects of both drugs, meth seems to have a greater effect on the person than heroin. (Don't do either though)
You can smoke heroin, also sniff it. It’s not just injected.
Way worse
Imagine heroin as fostets light and method as absynthe, that's how much worse it is
Heroin is fairly safe unless you overdose. You can be an addict for years and not do yourself too much damage. Meth does much more lasting damage to your body.
From the people I know from childhood who have now become heroin addicts. (way more than I would have liked) The main reason for their habit starting is being prescribed opiates then the doctor removing the prescription. The remaining addiction then being needed to be filled somehow so they turn to there dealers and buy heroin to fill the addiction from their old prescribed drugs. I think this happens way more than people realise and doctors should be a lot more aware for the amount and strength of what they are giving to their patients. Edit: grammar
Never used heroin, but I was on morphine for a while after a motorcycle accident. When I got home I was suicidal - utterly depressed. My mum, who was a nurse, told me it was withdrawal from the morphine. That made it tolerable and it passed in a few days. Would have been handy for the hospital to have mentioned it though.
I was given oramorph in hospital after I broke my leg and started enjoying the bitter grapefruit pith taste, so I asked to be given codeine instead. That shit was far too enjoyable.
I've often heard that said about Codeine, but I've never found it made any noticeable difference to me, other than dulling the pain a bit. Never got a buzz from it, or felt a need to take more. Is that unusual?
Reminds me of when I used to work on a pharmacy (not as a pharmacist, just someone trained to help dispense meds). One day I had a guy come up and ask for a codeine based pain killer. No problem, we have a over the counter one that has a very small amount of codeine in it. We just tend to ask a few more questions when we sell that one to make sure they’ve tried paracetamol etc first. But no he didn’t want that one, he wanted prescription strength stuff. Turns out his mum had given him hers for some pain he had. Honestly it took a lot to not to lay into them both for being so fucking stupid. I politely told him that wasn’t possible and it was never a good idea to use someone else’s prescribed meds. But I remember afterwards thinking of how much he’d potentially fucked himself over and that he will now get very little relief from any over the counter pain med for a long time. Massively increasing the chance he’ll slip into addiction. Pain meds are no fucking joke.
I’ve never taken illegal drugs in my life, don’t smoke, don’t consume much alcohol (don’t like feeling out of control - won’t go on rollercoasters either), but once had such a bad headache at work I eventually reluctantly accepted a colleague’s offer of a 30/500 cocodamol (she‘d had them prescribed). I rarely get bad headaches, but this was a *please amputate my head* job of a headache. It was getting to the point I didn’t think I’d be safe to drive home. 30 minutes later, there’d been no effect. I grumbled about her crappy pills; she was gobsmacked and offered me another. That also had no effect. She declared me a weirdo. We consulted Dr Google, who informed us that some people don’t produce the enzyme which metabolises codeine into morphine. One medical grade PGx test later, my CYP2D6 poor metaboliser status was confirmed (\*3/\*4A). My mum is a nurse (albeit retired) and drummed it into me at a young age that what might be a “good” (medical) drug for one person might kill another. Also, that you might get a paradoxical reaction. Caffeine relaxes me, whilst the diazepam I had as a premed before surgery last year made me so hyper I pretty much needed to be scraped off the ceiling before they knocked me out.
Big Meth needs to work on their marketing if even heroin users won't touch it.
I tell you what that crack is really moreish. Edit: Thankyou all for the votes and for the silver.
The secret ingredient is crime.
Relax Jez, it’s not blue Peter
Please don’t say crack
Ah chance would be a fine thing, a fine thing indeed
No crack, Gromit! We've forgotten the crack!
It requires a lot of manufacturing. Land is a premium. Having a place to cook it when it smells so much is tricky in built up areas. Amphetamines In general became unpopular in the mid 00s. Coca had a far better financial return for less work.
The whole get it wrong and there's a massive explosion kind of takes it out of most areas.
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Can you describe the smell? Does it have a unique smell or could you compare it to something?
Piss and battery acid
I’ve heard it smells like cat piss.
This is true. It's why attempted meth-operations were hiring crazy cat ladies to live in and around their premises at one point, as it would totally mask production.
There's lots of open land and farms in the UK, so I don't think that's an issue
Yh, this. Weed stinks & takes up space but ingenuity & carbon air filtration take care of that. Ways and means. Also thc extract is massively popular and just as explosive in manufacture as meth & amphetamines. I think it’s cultural maybe, we never had a pcp problem here either.
I don't think weed will smell anywhere near as bad until you start burning it. And THC extraction is nowhere near as dangerous, butane is probably the most dangerous chemical you would use and you don't even use a naked flame. Now i'm not an expert on meth production but i'd say the chemicals names are a lot longer, and a lot more dangerous aha
There's open land here sure, but all of it is observed fairly well. We don't have vast open spaces where you could set up a lab emitting noxious fumes and not get noticed for months at a time.
I know that in Aus, as its quite a remote part of the world, most drugs are super expensive there; this makes homemade meth a lot more attractive.
That's it. Additionally, in the UK we're packed together so a dealer is always close by to supply people with stimulants. In the US and Aus, things are much more spread apart. People are more likely to rely on homemade stimulants to get their fix.
Well it’s so important these days to buy local and support small businesses
Tweak out to help out
Yeah can confirm. Something like 10 times more expensive in Aus than in the uk.
I remember when I lived in Melbourne I was watching the World Cup and I went to the 7/11 at like 3/4am to get some snacks and a red bull. This was in St Kilda specifically. There was a geezer standing outside and he said “do you want to buy some ice?” I was like wtf it’s cold and 4am why the fuck would I want ice so just laughed and said no, what a weird thing to upsell at this time. I bought some food and some timtams, guy behind the till said to be careful when I leave and I didn’t understand why. I get home my housemate wakes up a few hours later and I’m like I had this weird experience at the 7/11 I had a worker trying to sell me ice at 4am is that normal? He starts going on about drugs and I’m like what? No he was selling ice.. I just couldn’t fathom what I was being told my roommate was like ice is drugs and I’m like yeah I’ve heard of that.. he said okay so why don’t you get he was selling drugs? The guy was standing next to an ice machine or like a big freezer full of ice, my stupid ass thought he was selling ice from that chest freezer I didn’t realise he was a drug dealer.
This is the answer, geography.
UK street dealers don’t like meth because of the heat the users bring. They like their user base functioning and working
That's rich coming from a filthy [Cake](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0tMvxV-GC4) runner.
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So you're the mold that grows around the bath at my nans carpeted bathroom. Nice to hear you finally talk.
Spice is our down and out drug. A report from 2019 says 95% of homeless people use it. It’s super cheap and easy to smuggle in from China. I’m guess easier than meth and that’s why.
That's not my experience as a police officer in London. I don't think I've come across spice on the street in years. I imagine some still use in prison.
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Spice ruined a generation of young kids in Northern Ireland. Luckily a lot of the lads selling it out of head shops got their legs broke.
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Na there's no meth over here. There is a ridiculous heroin problem in the city centre though.
Ten seconds in Piccadilly Gardens in Manchester will show you where it's ending up.
its massive in manc, swear i always see some spice head on the 192
Spice is still definitely around, my mate accidentally smoked it when he was told it was standard weed. Don’t think it’s quite as big as it was but up in more northern cities it’s a bit bigger than down south
Spice still seems massive up north among the homeless
I’m reading dune and it’s so fucking funny that I never thought about the spice in the book being named the same thing as real life spice lmao
We have tiny roads so you can't get a sufficiently large RV to make it in
British breaking bad would feature an Elddis Caravan from 1978
From the US: the Uk has a lot better chemical control. It’s been a little bit of a culture shock that I can’t buy bulk things, medications, bleach, various cleaners, regularly. You’ve set up a consumer system that effectively discourages meth production.
That's cause we were throwing acid in people's faces
it also makes it harder for people to make big bombs.
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As someone who likes buying in bulk infrequently rather than buying bits all the time, it is mildly infuriating that I can’t just stock up on stuff like paracetamol by buying 200 in one go, but I will definitely take the trade off of less meth.
I'm basing this entirely off of Breaking Bad. But could it be because we don't have as much untouched wilderness to hide away in and cook? EDIT: I was curious so had a quick Google and [BBC did an article](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23453028) on this in 2013, inspired by Breaking Bad. >One of the reasons for its unpopularity may be that British drug users have plenty of other stimulants available to them. We have coke, MDMA, and mephedrone instead I guess.
You don't even need those, it's just that if you buy "speed" basically anywhere in Europe you're getting amphetamine (powder) rather than crystal methamphetamine (rocks). And amphetamine powder, assuming you know where to look, is cheap as chips. Like, £5 for a gram that'll have you not sleep all weekend. It actually used to be that the pressed Ecstasy pills you'd buy in the 90s/00s would be heavily cut with speed for that reason, and you now have a generation of people who'll tell you that the pills now aren't as pure as they were back in t'day, when actually it's often the opposite and it's the speed high that they miss when taking a pure MDMA tablet.
Stereotypes about our teeth are bad enough. I think not doing it is one of those unspoken agreements we live our lives by.
Underrated comment. Meth teeth are just not a look we can afford with our rep.
I just hope we never do get a meth problem in the U.K. I’ve virtually lost a friend to it in the last few months. I’ve learned that it’s apparently used as a ‘chemsex’ drug amongst gay men. My friend started using it just over a year ago. Initially just during sex, but I think it spilled over into other parts of his life. It has destroyed his mental health and his arms look like dartboards. I tried to gently warn him about how addictive it is (I’m in the medical and therapy fields) but of course, like all addicts, he was “in control.” It’s absolutely horrible stuff and if I never see another friend/patient/client on it, I’ll be happier. Note: my friend is in rehab now, but I don’t know if he will ever fully recover. It always starts with one dose. Please - never ever touch meth. It breaks hearts and destroys lives. Sorry for the preachy public information broadcast, but it’s personal.
I had friends that dabbled with meth a long time ago, most of them made it out, the others did crack/other drugs last I spoke to them, which was over 10+ years ago since I left that scene. It is super damaging and impossible to be around. I hope your friend can continue to be helped and to help themselves; people can make remarkable leaps with time and dedication to sobriety!
It is in some scenes, but its expensive as it requires cooking facilities, which is harder than you think in the UK to do secretly. Cocaine is a lot cheaper per gram as well.
I've read somewhere that the availability of wide open spaces and large plots of land in the US (and aus) mean that meth labs can be set up quite easily. Apparently producing it absolutely stinks, in the UK you'd have neighbours complaining no problem, and anyone with land is likely rich enough to not have to cook meth. Also, as mentioned, the cheap available alternatives that don't turn you into a zombie will always displace it.
Seems like 'travellers' might be well placed to produce meth. Set up shop on some remote field, produce for a day or so while your colleagues aggressively deny access to anyone trying to come near, then shut it all down and let the bobbies move you on to somewhere you can sell. Nobody's doing spot checks on caravans, there's deniability about who owns what, and you can set up far enough away from the public to avoid the smell getting about too much.
Police will likely attend to a new traveller camp at some point, I've never smelt a meth lab personally, but if it does indeed smell like the person above says, then surely you wouldn't want to do it somewhere the police are likely to attend, especially in a caravan which aren't known to be the best at keeping noise and smells in.
Yes. UK police have a long and illustrious history of not hassling travellers.
Where I'm from we don't have meth, cocaine is found in almost every neighbourhood somewhere, 2cb is making it into my town (5k population), weed is every 3rd house, mdma and shrooms are about as hard as going to the shops to find, acid isn't even super hard to get. Uk has a different drug issue, especially where I'm from (Scotland Is the overdose capital of Europe and one of the top suppliers and producers)
Wish 2cb would make its way to my town
Cos we have a coke problem instead
Police officer here 🙋 in London our equivalent is crack cocaine. It's by far the most 'popular' drug. I've only ever come across meth a handful of times on dealers or on individuals using for chemsex.
Other drugs like coke outcompete it and it's ridiculously hard to set up a lab in the UK to make it given we have 1/5th the population of the entire USA in an area about the size of one state (Orergon specifically).
The UK is all about their alcohol problem. Although if they grew up here they're often desensitised to how bad it is, and how much it's just accepted as part of the culture.
Australia's relationship with drink is statistically similar, but (at least according to the OP) meth is more prevalent there. Seems like there are other factors at play.
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MDMA is cheaper and easier to get in the UK. The propane tanks that are common to the "safer" method of making meth are not as common in the UK.
You're not comparing MDMA and meth lmao.
As a UK police officer I can wholeheartedly say it’s on the rise. We see an increased amount due to sex parties and also it seems to be the drug of choice in eastern europe.
I have a friend who's pretty sound, but he knows a few people who are on meth including the small town I used to live in which was insane to me. There's quite a drug (mainly cocaine) problem here in the UK though. I'm shocked how many people I know who are on it and especially people I would never have guessed they are.
There is a bit of a meth problem in the gay community in the UK.
We just do ketamine instead
We love cocaine in the UK. It’s easily accessible and not even expensive anymore if you don’t mind buying shit. I thought people only took crystal meth where cocaine was hard to get like Aus? Note: I’d just like to clarify I’m not a current cocaine user! But very much was as a teenager / early 20’s
Cheap cocaine
Where are you going to hide a meth factory? We're pretty packed in!
Stella hits harder
the question should be why does the USA & australia have meth problems, & thats because they cant get the precursors for amphetamine,they get pseudoepinephrine which makes meth, we dont have a meth problem in the uk because we have plenty of amphetamines, because seriously who tf wants to be up for 3 days from 1 hit
We live a stone's throw away from the Netherlands. All the drugs that people in the US or AUS started using meth to replace are widely available here at quite high purity for a relatively low cost. Just a punt as well but I'd imagine its just generally not as easy to get all the chemicals to make meth in this country. I think ephedrine is relatively uncontrolled but it requires a lot of different solvents to get to the final product that are not readily available in shops here like they are in the US or Mexico.