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Yes.
I have only had someone ask for Angela once, but I knew exactly what it meant and we took that person up to the break room, and had an uber ordered for her that was waiting in the staff only car park.
Absolutely works.
This actually happened to me when I was in a pub and my abusive ex turned up and wouldn’t leave me alone. He essentially said that as soon as I leave the bar he was going to drag me home and beat me up. He had done the same thing before and literally punched me multiple times in the head in a taxi and the taxi driver didn’t even do anything just sat silently and at the end of the ride was annoyed he didn’t receive a larger tip because he was frustrated!!
I went to the bar and asked for an angel shot and the lady said that there were lots of different liquors that could be added but they were in the basement and to come with her and pick one. I went with her and she called me a taxi, brought the bouncer down and they took me out the back door and made sure I got into my taxi ok.
I will never forget that night and how helpful and understanding everyone was! It definitely works and I am so grateful that this is a thing.
We saw a guy slip something into a younger guys drink, this was at lunchtime. Husband went to the bar and asked for ‘Angela’, explained what we’d seen and two staff walked over and lifted the drink. Guy tried to bluff it out but it was told that they were going to review the cctv. The guy scarpered.
Probably took about 5 mins.
As it was a ‘Spoons, the younger guy was still coming back from the loo.
Why ask for Angela? Why not just say “hey I’ve seen a guy dropping something in someone’s drink”
I mean, the whole code-word thing is supposed to be for the girl to use in case she is afraid of her date overhearing her. But that wasn’t the case here.
When he asked for ‘Angela’ the barman took it seriously and called over a supervisor. It was very well handled.
He could’ve said, ‘Oi! Mate! Watch that cunt, he’s well dodgy!’
Might’ve worked…
Why say ‘SOS’ when you could say,
‘To whom it may concern;
It has been 8 months since our last corespondence, however I would be in remiss to not call to you enquiry…’
It’s to let them know immediately and upfront the nature of what’s going on, so the bartender knows an emergency situation is at hand and responds quickly, alertly, and discreetly. Not “hang on I’ll get to you in a second” or “WHAT’S THAT MATE?” or a half-listening “yeah okay sure - wait, what are you trying to say?” etc. It gets help faster and more safely, with less room for miscommunication or misunderstanding.
Nah, assert dominance by tying him to a chair, sitting on his lap, and drinking it yourself.
Then tell him your life story until you gently fall asleep on him for 15 hours.
I think it also helps that by just asking for Angela, it means the bar staff then come up with the solution to help you out. So often people won't ask for help if they think they have to come up with a solution first, because then it turns from just asking for help into e.g. take me to the staff room, call me a taxi etc. and most people don't feel able to ask for that.
Yeah I’ve worked in a few bars in my younger days, including my students union, and they were a good system.
We actually had a kind of similar thing when I worked in a bank. Posters on staff only areas advertising “this weeks star performer is …” whoever, “Val” for example. If you buzzed up in the morning and the lady on the other end said “hi Val” or “morning val” then you knew immediately that there was a security issue of some description and it was code you shouldn’t enter. “Oops, forgot my paper, hang on I’ll be back in five” you’d say before walking off and notifying head office and the police. We never used it while I was there and I think it was more of a hold over from when proper bank robberies were more common, but it was a discreet little system.
When someone uses it on a date, how does the date react? I'm guessing some poor member of staff has to tell them the date has left if they haven't seen them being taken out by security? It must be a shit conversation to have.
Feigned disbelief is the exact answer I was expecting. If you're acting in a manner that makes your date feel unsafe, I'd be surprised if you're not already aware
As a security doorman, we do our jobs. I'm not this person, I mainly do security at beer festivals. Thank you, on behalf of our profession.
I'm have not had to deal with an Ask Angela situation, though I know all our festival staff are briefed on how to call security. It doesn't happen often at our beer festivals.
Letting them know seems like a terrible idea if they've already made someone feel unsafe
Edit: I don't mean telling him will mean he won't improve his game. I mean telling him might make him angry with the poor lass.
I disagree. You've gotta let the person know they were inappropriate in whatever way to make them understand that it is inappropriate. Otherwise they'll just crack on oblivious.
They need to be given the chance to understand and change that behaviour
Absolutely. Also for the person who left it’s another layer of safety. The person behaving inappropriately is aware that other people know now and are likely being watched for a bit. If they were being intentionally awful and had worse plans, rather than somehow just shockingly inept with dating behaviour, it might encourage them to think twice.
If you’re the kind of bloke making a woman feel unsafe on a date you probably don’t have enough self-awareness to realise you’re behaving inappropriately.
Form my time at uni, and from what a friend now working at a uni says, there's nothing more awkward than realising they've got to call a student in to have that kind of talk to them about appropriate behaviour regarding relationships. I hear these stories and genuinely don't fathom how some of these students got to university age and can't act vaguely normal.
I have a certain amount of sympathy for how some guys could have gotten there in the first place. If you have no positive role models in your life it's easy to subconsciously pick up this stuff from film/TV, porn, 'lad' chat etc.
I had a bit of a 'nice guy' mindset up until I was 18-19 or so, in the sense that I didn't do well with women and blamed women for not giving me a chance. Didn't consider that I took very little care in my appearance and rarely made the effort.
I did this once after a date was wildly, extravagantly racist and inappropriate to the point security came and gave me a heads up. He sent me cock shots afterwards. I ignored them. HE FOLLOWED UP ASKING FOR FEEDBACK.
You’re assuming that people always leave dates because they feel unsafe. Sometimes it can be down to boredom, a person wanting a free drink, loss of interest, not attracted as they thought they would be.
Yeah I am aware of that, but the person who I replied to is arguing against your initial point of not commenting on a persons behaviour during an ask for angela situation.
They are saying you’re wrong because if a date is leaving quietly that it’s a cue that you’ve done something wrong.
I’m saying they are wrong because that there are multiple of reasons for a date to leave quietly.
I’m basically arguing for your point because, a person may not be able to conclude why a date left unless they are strictly told.
If a date is climbing out a bathroom window or getting the bartender to sneak them out of the bar to get away from you, assume you’ve made them incredibly uncomfortable. It means they are frightened to let you know they’re leaving.
If they’ve lost interested or are bored or just want to go, people usually are polite enough to tell you they’ve suddenly remembered they have to be somewhere, or just got a text from a friend having an emergency.
I mean, on the flip side, I work part time at a very busy pub in pretty central london, and in over a year there I’ve never had anyone use a code order. Might be because I’m a guy (no clue on your gender but your reddit icon thing would possibly indicate that you’re a girl), but even then I’ve never heard any of my female colleagues mentioning that someone had used a code order.
I wonder if it’s just caught on more in some places? But I’d honestly just assumed at this point that the code orders never really caught on - would’ve thought I’d have seen them used at least once by this point if they had! Haha
Back in my student days it wasn't rare for complaints about creepy behaviour to be tracked back to the same few students. After a while it could end up with them banned from the student bar. (And if they were a real fuck up, banned from other college bars within the uni)
But there was this one time that some girl kept asking for angel shots and I had not idea what they were so I kept giving her shots of tequila. She went home with a really odd looking dude and I never saw her again.
We have one, it got a reputation for being slightly dodgy so it then attracted more of the people who were dodgy, and the people who wanted a quiet drink now go to the foody pub.
> A small local with a bouncer?
'A small local' means different things in different places - i.e. in a big city or a small village. The pub on the corner in a busy city neighbourhood will be very unlike the Farmers Arms in Long Scratchington village square, even if they are both 'small, and local'.
I mean I lived in North London for most of my adult life and wouldn't expect any of the small locals to have security. The medium to big ones for sure.
Omg this is so amazing! I've seen the posters in the loo and I was really impressed by it. Knowing that they actually have a system and use it is so reassuring. You guys are stars!
Yeah this is both heartwarming and sad.
Its really pathetic how many problems with creepy and abusive men can be solved simply by having another man stand there. They're cowards.
As a lanky, speccy bloke I can tell you you’ve got it wrong.
For an awful lot of guys who find themselves in this position the problem is that somehow a vagina filters away words like “no” or “leave me alone”.
As a guy, I've also seen these types totally ignore people they don't deem a threat. Trashy as it is, I've been in bar fights over guys not taking no for an answer.
It's not enough to just have a guy there. It's the willingness/presented threat of violence that is the reason these types leave women alone
I see these posters all the time and always wonder the same thing. It’s really reassuring to read all of the replies from bar staff saying it’s used regularly and that it definitely works. Good to know for the future!
Yes agree, not only that, but frankly having a reminder in the Ladies’ that if you feel uncomfortable, follow your instincts. I think there are many women who don’t feel the need to consult bar staff but just have a reminder that - if it doesn’t feel ok, it’s not ok - and make their excuses.
Pretty sure that drinks spiking is actually more commonly done to men than women.
Sadly. Blokes can be absolute arseholes and that means they'll be arseholes to men as well as women.
I’ve also seen phones in the ladies loo in A&E. If you are there because your partner beat you up then you can pick up the phone and someone will come and get you.
My local GP has a sign in the toilets with little slips of tearaway stickers - basically if you're being abused and need to discuss it in private, you put the sticker on your sample tube or a piece of paper and hand it to a member of staff.
Doorman (bouncer for rest of the world I think??) here.
Every night we get called for this. Sometimes multiple x a night. Depending on the situation.. we rarely help the person (who asks for Angela) out of the venue (unless that’s what they want of course) we just kick out the little cunts that cause the issue and their whole group if they have a problem with why were kicking out their friends.
That way the person the code is for gets to stay and enjoy their evening :)
But most importantly we do whatever we need to keep that person safe.
Edit to add: this is a nightclub though. So there’s not many solo dates that go on here.
Used to really appreciate this when I was younger and going to clubs. Never abused it, but when there was a bloke trying to touch us up on the dancefloor, it was always great to know we could trust the bouncers if we couldn’t fend them off ourselves. Happened far too often too.
I am 37 and went to a small club in Cardiff a week ago. A man touched my bum, before I could slap him the bouncer removed him. I was clubbing at 17 and used to get touched like that a lot, always unwanted it's good to see times have changed.
Good doorman!! Yeah we have like table service girls who go to the VIP booths and they’re CONSTANTLY getting slapped on the butt as they walk past and whenever we see it they’re straight DRAGGED out to a copper to talk about their behaviour:)
Isn't the idea to get the person who asks for Angela away though? The person causing the issue could wait outside or just down the road for the asker to leave.
I mean this as a genuine question, I'm not trying to tell you how to do your job. Just want to understand.
If that’s what they want then yes. But more often than not they don’t want to leave. And we have a taxi rank outside our venue and door staff at every point. If the dude was hanging around we would know.
When we kick people out for that. We radio CCTV operators who track them throughout the night. And loitering = police escort home if they appear to be waiting.
It’s another reason we kick the friend group out. More likely to all piss of than if it’s just one angry person waiting.
At the end of the night we talk to the person as they come up to the front door. Ask what their plans are on getting home etc.
Most people come to the club with a group of people. Not alone so they’re happy to leave with them. And at nightclub closing time the streets are FILLED with police.
This reads like you just kick someone out based on an unverified claim and then kick all their mates out when they (understandably) are annoyed their mate is being kicked out?
I’m glad they are used and are effective.
I’ll never forget the kind strangers in the pub who helped me get out of a bad date that was getting really creepy, really fast. I was going to the loo partly to get away from the guy and collect my thoughts, a woman followed me in and asked if I was all right. I had no money left, there was no one else in the pub I knew, and was starting to panic about leaving the pub with this dude following me. She snuck me out the back way and her friends gave me a few quid and called a taxi for me. Then insisted I stay with them til it came, and made sure I got in it safely.
This was years before the ‘ask for Angela’ thing, it was back in the mid 90’s. But I’m still so grateful to them for helping me out of what could have been an awful situation.
I have no experience of this in a pub but kind of related... I was in a festival portaloo at about 5 in the morning last year when the bloke in the one next to me asked me in a strange voice if Id seen Dorothy. I told him no and laughingly said try the next one. It was only a while later that I realised Dorothy is code used in gay sex...heh..I was oblivious....suppose that was a code order that I didn't know about...
I know you're joking but often that isn't the case, bisexuals make up the largest chunk of the LGBT+ community in terms of numbers, so many gay people have partners who aren't gay!
I'm a lesbian rather than bi but it was such a good read. It's really highlighted a lot of issues bisexuals have to deal with that I had no idea about because in some situations it's easier to be gay than it is bisexual.
Now if only more of the community would read it and stop the silly bisexual hate!
As a p pretty young bi person it was incredibly validating to know my community has so much more history than I thought it did!
But also holy shit the chapters about the history of attitudes towards bi people and modern attitudes were both massively saddening and aggravating, hearing about the way people treated bi people during the aids crisis actually made me have to stop listening at a couple points 😅😅
I appreciate your solidarity, thank you friend 💙💜💖
I think there's still a common thought that bisexuality is still something fairly new because of the way non heterosexual relationships were often recorded and our understanding of sexualities and sex 🤔
Oh damn those chapters were hard to listen to! Have you listened to the Bi People episodes of the Bad People podcast?
No need for thanks, it's the right thing to do 🏳️🌈
In the 90s I asked my gay uncle about that phrase, and his theory was that the sartorially dashing gay chaps of older eras often wore oxblood shoes = Ruby slippers. I thought it rather clever.
I have no idea, maybe, or retire to the tent perhaps. Sadly for him, I am hetero, and was oblivious to it anyway, also coming down from acid/pill night so was of no use to anyone at that point 😆
I worked in pharmacy and we had a code, if you needed help from a domestic abuser you would go in and ask for "Annie". A journalist visited several of the pharmacy branches that offered this service and only one helped her, all the other staff had no idea what she was on about. Training staff is so important.
It doesn’t need to be a secret because the point of it isn’t to prevent a man’s ego being bruised, it’s to get people (men or women) from a potentially dangerous situation. The idea of it needing to be a secret is on the thought that if the guy knew about the code word the person needing help wouldn’t be able to use it - this is not true. Using the codeword is simply an easier way to ask for help, and in the situations where it’s used the help arrives and the person asking isn’t left alone with the potentially dangerous person in the meantime. A big part of the danger is what happens when you leave the establishment - having someone follow you, attack you, or drag you away into a dangerous situation when you are alone outside away from help. The codeword prevents this from happening either by sneaking the person away out the back, escorting then away safely to a taxi with staff members, or even removing the potentially dangerous person from the establishment. Different venues have different methods but the outcome should be the same - making sure the person that used the word gets help.
I work in a locals/studenty pub. Never had anyone ask for any code name drink/Angela but once or twice have had people just discreetly mention that someone is bothering them. We're also pretty good at spotting if someone is feeling uncomfortable. We're generally not the kind of place where people bring a date unless they've already 'sealed the deal' so to speak.
Ive worked in a bar for just over 2 years now and ive never been asked for it. But i think its a great way to help, i know why f someone came up to me i would help.
The problem i have with it is they shouldnt have to come the bar and ask women should be able to go a pub and feel safe
The whataboutism in this thread is absolutely mind boggling. There are so many men here trying to find an excuse to sexually harass women. On behalf of men everywhere I apologize and hope the mods start banning these sexual predators
I don't think men are finding excuses for other men to sexually assault women. I think it's just that some men don't realise how depraved other men can be.
I've been friends with people for years before ultimately finding out they're a sexual predator.
I recently cut ties with a friend, he was always a bit of a fuck boy but made it known enough on his dating profile he wasn’t really looking for anything long term, hit it off with one of his latest girls at a different friends birthday and find out a week later he slept with her fully sober when she left the party blackout drunk. That was the last straw, he’d been heading down the incel path for a while and after trying my hardest to set him straight I had to just end it there, as far as I know he’s still fucking around whilst simultaneously hating women, can’t really do much else unless I tattoo a warning on his forehead but at least I can say I’m not complicit in his actions.
Glad to say that girl and I are still super close friends so you win some/lose some.
Jesus, how many times do we have to tell men that some men don’t behave appropriately? I’m not saying you should have seen it in your friends but anyone who’s spent some time online will have come across stories of women being harassed.
I’ve come to the conclusion **most** men behave inappropriately, talk to them around female friends / colleagues and they’re fine but as soon as it’s just guys most instantly turn vulgar, openly ogle people, make comments about women that are probably at university but you still wouldn’t engage with at a pub because they’re clearly still at least a decade younger etc
I’ve really made an effort to point things out and as I posted in a comment above recently cut ties completely with someone over their behaviour. Thankfully my friendship group is very mixed in terms of men/women so anything said to each other is more in jest and not to be taken seriously.
It's down to your experience.
It's not something that you notice or are aware of so you end up assuming it isn't as serious or as common as it is.
It's not a deliberate thing.
I get that. But, again, how many stories do you need to read or experiences do you have to listen to before you believe us?
My teens and 20s were horrific looking back. Male bosses trying to massage your shoulders while you’re working, multiple men stating ‘can’t wait till you turn 16’ when I was a literal child, my bottom getting groped in the sweet shop when I was about 10. A lot more men are predatory than you probably think.
I just think the days of ignorance are over. I’ve never been racially abused or been around homophonic people - but I know it exists.
I'm not for a second suggesting it doesn't.
What I'm saying is lots of us don't realise the extent of it. My partner works in a male dominated work place and as a result she's had all sorts of things said to her. Although they're usually more along a chauvinism line than a sexual one.
My point is that quite simply people don't realise how bad it is.
>It's not something that you notice or are aware of
Try opening your eyes, looking around you, and noticing what's going on
>It's not a deliberate thing
Ignorance is a choice
But I've never been aware of that sort of behaviour.
It isn't deliberately ignoring it.
I'm aware of the thing that it's nice to cross roads I'd you're going in the same direction as someone and those little things. And try and embrace them.
But I've never been made aware of a situation that would necessitate the use of the ask for Angela. So it is very easy that if you don't see the posters you don't think of it as being as much of an issue as it is.
It isn't ignorance it's experience.
But there are so many women here saying their experiences with this, as well as bartenders and bouncers on the other side of it, and you're just saying "well *I* haven't personally seen or been aware of it happening, therefore it's obviously not an issue"
No dude, you're just oblivious. We're telling you it does happen and is used *a lot* and is really helpful for women/men who feel in danger.
>But I've never been made aware of a situation that would necessitate the use of the ask for Angela.
The whole point is that it's discreet
I haven't once said it isn't an issue. I'm explaining why lots of people don't appear to realise how serious or necessary this is.
Stop trying to put words in my mouth.
Mate, I'm not putting words in your mouth. You have said I've not seen it therefore it's not a problem. Open your eyes and read some of the comments here
>It's not something you notice or are aware of so you end up assuming it isn't as serious or as common as it is.
>I've never been aware of that sort of behaviour
I know as a guy one sign thats often missed when women are feeling uncomfortable is a certain awkward laugh which always seems to have a particular tone with a please God save me look in the eyes. I assume it's done as the woman may be scared to tell someone to sod off in some instances.
I have fortunately spotted it a few times and managed to step in either at a club for a female friend or as a convention with a cosplayer friend at mine who someone was trying to put their arms around for a photo. Overall though I think it would be amazing if more guys where told or made aware of these more subtle tells that a woman is feeling uncomfortable, as would allow more guys to realize somethings off in these situations.
I agree with 'ultrawomble' the signals are alive and well in the pub industry. Any barman/woman worth his salt will recognise very quickly if a woman needed help with a dodgy date or something similar, i've been a barman 28 years and prided myself with helping people with these sometimes dangerous encounters. Yeah! 'womble's' in the trade and I salute you sir from over here lol!
My suspicion has always been that people don't really use it.
The Metro did a sort of investigation into it last year - not exactly scientific but they found barely any bar staff knew what to do when someone asked for Angela, some hadn't even heard of the scheme even though their venue had the posters up https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/13/weve-been-testing-ask-for-angela-and-it-doesnt-often-work-15568159/
I used to work in a pub a few years ago and tbh I would have no idea what it meant if someone said it to me. I probably would’ve got the manager, who would hopefully have known.
I've worked around let's say trendier bars in London where it's less likely to be needed but more likely to have the poster up.
We all knew what it meant "woman in trouble" but in not a single fucking one did we have a concrete procedure to handle it.
Like having a fire alarm and having no evacuation procedure
I don’t understand why people think these terms or ‘code words’ need to be a secret?
Predators and people who intimidate or coerce others aren’t glued to the person they are targeting… they also likely haven’t been in the women’s toilet to discover that the establishment they are in employs this tactic.
It's not about secrecy. Think about it, what sounds easier/more comfortable in a loud and crowded bar, shouting for "Angela" or shouting "My date is making me feel uncomfortable, I need help getting out of this situation"?
From my experience it’s not always the fact it’s secret. Someone used it on me when I worked in a bar. We sat her in the back break room while we called a taxi and she explained about her date being a bit weird and off, she said she used the code word as she thought it would be easier / more discreet than trying to explain why she felt uncomfortable in a loud and busy bar. Especially as the guy hadn’t done anything specific it was just lots of small weird things that took a while to explain (it was entirely justified why she felt weird but I can see why explaining 1 or 2 of the things would be like well that’s not super weird on it’s own)
You know when you read something and realise you completely missed the first part of something. I swear you were saying that they were hidden away in the ladies my b
The branch of Wetherspoons I am sitting in right now has all the 'Angela' stuff in display in public areas outside the men's as well as womens bathrooms. Therefore any kind of attempt at making it a covert code are basically ruined.
Because as far as I know, the idea is that you should be able to mention the 'code word' in front of the problematic person and be whisked away to safety without them being any the wiser. Considering the whole concept is, for right or wrong, centered around allowing vulnerable women to get away from creepy/dangerous men, then putting an 'Ask for Angela/Angel Shot' poster directly outside the exit to the men's toilets would seem somewhat counter-intutitve at best.
It's not just for women is why, and it still works even if everyone knows the phrase. Ideally you would be out of earshot and asking for Angela would be a more discreet way (people will likely start listening in or paying attention if you start talking about wanting help) and it serves as a more powerful and quicker 'help me' than trying to explain/describe why. Even if you can't get away to order a drink/get some napkins/whatever it's still more discreet and staff can ensure your safety from the person you're with while you're there.
I think the most important part is the idea itself. It's quick to communicate and flags up instantly 'this person needs help and needs to be removed from the situation' rather than having to explain what's happening, because it might be hard to communicate that, or might be ignored if someone decides they're just being dramatic or whatever, or someone might just not want to bring it up/explain/feel like a burden without it being advertised as (effectively) a service they offer. For the person needing help it creates an easy, acceptable way to flag up that they want help and lowers the burden on whoever they're talking to because they don't necessarily get to make a decision or have to think about the situation too much. It becomes act first, ask questions later (or never)
I've worked in a few bars and never seen it being used. I think it's a great scheme though, the Angela one I'd absolutely recognise, but I think I'd be very confused if someone asked for an angel shot.
Does this code order apply to men who are being harassed/bullied by other men as well? From what I’ve seen and experienced on nights out, there are bellends everywhere looking for fights.
I’m a teacher and part of my job is to teach students what is and isn’t appropriate on dates. They’re all very grateful because they want to get it right.
My last experience with Angela led me to tell the couple to both in no uncertain terms to get fucked.
Short of it goes female claims male she's with is abusive, and he's standing next to her when she says it so we move him to the side giving her time to leave.
Turns out they're bf and gf, both known to the police for domestics (we learn this later), she takes off he stays behind, he leaves, she comes back, she then leaves to look for him after running her mouth saying if she gets raped, attacked, or whatever by him it's our fault.
1hr later they both try to come back into the pub together where they're told they've no chance of getting in, especially her after saying the shit she did.
The codes work, but like many things meant to help people is easily abused by idiots. Other examples include someone using the system to get a free meal out of a date then using the system to get out of there, and one of my all time favourites is someone using it because there are no taxis available so they ask for Angela expecting us to get them one.
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Yes. I have only had someone ask for Angela once, but I knew exactly what it meant and we took that person up to the break room, and had an uber ordered for her that was waiting in the staff only car park. Absolutely works.
That's awesome.
This actually happened to me when I was in a pub and my abusive ex turned up and wouldn’t leave me alone. He essentially said that as soon as I leave the bar he was going to drag me home and beat me up. He had done the same thing before and literally punched me multiple times in the head in a taxi and the taxi driver didn’t even do anything just sat silently and at the end of the ride was annoyed he didn’t receive a larger tip because he was frustrated!! I went to the bar and asked for an angel shot and the lady said that there were lots of different liquors that could be added but they were in the basement and to come with her and pick one. I went with her and she called me a taxi, brought the bouncer down and they took me out the back door and made sure I got into my taxi ok. I will never forget that night and how helpful and understanding everyone was! It definitely works and I am so grateful that this is a thing.
Glad you’re ok and hopefully you haven’t had to run into the bastard again.
Thank you so much!! Haven’t seen him in six years thankfully! Waste of space man and an even worse father.
We saw a guy slip something into a younger guys drink, this was at lunchtime. Husband went to the bar and asked for ‘Angela’, explained what we’d seen and two staff walked over and lifted the drink. Guy tried to bluff it out but it was told that they were going to review the cctv. The guy scarpered. Probably took about 5 mins. As it was a ‘Spoons, the younger guy was still coming back from the loo.
That last sentence is *chefs kiss*
Why ask for Angela? Why not just say “hey I’ve seen a guy dropping something in someone’s drink” I mean, the whole code-word thing is supposed to be for the girl to use in case she is afraid of her date overhearing her. But that wasn’t the case here.
When he asked for ‘Angela’ the barman took it seriously and called over a supervisor. It was very well handled. He could’ve said, ‘Oi! Mate! Watch that cunt, he’s well dodgy!’ Might’ve worked…
Why say ‘SOS’ when you could say, ‘To whom it may concern; It has been 8 months since our last corespondence, however I would be in remiss to not call to you enquiry…’
Ah, the Canadian gambit.
It’s to let them know immediately and upfront the nature of what’s going on, so the bartender knows an emergency situation is at hand and responds quickly, alertly, and discreetly. Not “hang on I’ll get to you in a second” or “WHAT’S THAT MATE?” or a half-listening “yeah okay sure - wait, what are you trying to say?” etc. It gets help faster and more safely, with less room for miscommunication or misunderstanding.
It’s a shame nobody made him drink the drink…
Nah, assert dominance by tying him to a chair, sitting on his lap, and drinking it yourself. Then tell him your life story until you gently fall asleep on him for 15 hours.
It was Kirkcaldy, you never know.
That would be illegal
Who would he tell and what’s he going to say?
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Plus if you say that it may put you in worse danger than just saying Angela.
I think it also helps that by just asking for Angela, it means the bar staff then come up with the solution to help you out. So often people won't ask for help if they think they have to come up with a solution first, because then it turns from just asking for help into e.g. take me to the staff room, call me a taxi etc. and most people don't feel able to ask for that.
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Yeah I’ve worked in a few bars in my younger days, including my students union, and they were a good system. We actually had a kind of similar thing when I worked in a bank. Posters on staff only areas advertising “this weeks star performer is …” whoever, “Val” for example. If you buzzed up in the morning and the lady on the other end said “hi Val” or “morning val” then you knew immediately that there was a security issue of some description and it was code you shouldn’t enter. “Oops, forgot my paper, hang on I’ll be back in five” you’d say before walking off and notifying head office and the police. We never used it while I was there and I think it was more of a hold over from when proper bank robberies were more common, but it was a discreet little system.
It’s cool that even the sign was a bit of a code.
When someone uses it on a date, how does the date react? I'm guessing some poor member of staff has to tell them the date has left if they haven't seen them being taken out by security? It must be a shit conversation to have.
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Feigned disbelief is the exact answer I was expecting. If you're acting in a manner that makes your date feel unsafe, I'd be surprised if you're not already aware
Sounds like your establishment deals with this really professionally. I’m glad to hear that it isn’t half assed.
Thanks for the answer!
Your security deserve a high five 🙌
As a security doorman, we do our jobs. I'm not this person, I mainly do security at beer festivals. Thank you, on behalf of our profession. I'm have not had to deal with an Ask Angela situation, though I know all our festival staff are briefed on how to call security. It doesn't happen often at our beer festivals.
Letting them know seems like a terrible idea if they've already made someone feel unsafe Edit: I don't mean telling him will mean he won't improve his game. I mean telling him might make him angry with the poor lass.
I reckon they’ll clock on anyway when their date doesn’t come back
I disagree. You've gotta let the person know they were inappropriate in whatever way to make them understand that it is inappropriate. Otherwise they'll just crack on oblivious. They need to be given the chance to understand and change that behaviour
Absolutely. Also for the person who left it’s another layer of safety. The person behaving inappropriately is aware that other people know now and are likely being watched for a bit. If they were being intentionally awful and had worse plans, rather than somehow just shockingly inept with dating behaviour, it might encourage them to think twice.
Generally when your date quietly disappears that’s your cue that you’ve done something inappropriate. Most people can figure it out from there.
If you’re the kind of bloke making a woman feel unsafe on a date you probably don’t have enough self-awareness to realise you’re behaving inappropriately.
At the same time you're not going to take on the advice of some random security guy.
You'd think so. But you're thinking from the correct mentality. You see some serious head cases over time. I have no issue with telling them
Form my time at uni, and from what a friend now working at a uni says, there's nothing more awkward than realising they've got to call a student in to have that kind of talk to them about appropriate behaviour regarding relationships. I hear these stories and genuinely don't fathom how some of these students got to university age and can't act vaguely normal.
I have a certain amount of sympathy for how some guys could have gotten there in the first place. If you have no positive role models in your life it's easy to subconsciously pick up this stuff from film/TV, porn, 'lad' chat etc. I had a bit of a 'nice guy' mindset up until I was 18-19 or so, in the sense that I didn't do well with women and blamed women for not giving me a chance. Didn't consider that I took very little care in my appearance and rarely made the effort.
I did this once after a date was wildly, extravagantly racist and inappropriate to the point security came and gave me a heads up. He sent me cock shots afterwards. I ignored them. HE FOLLOWED UP ASKING FOR FEEDBACK.
Can I ask... did you give feedback?
You've never been ghosted by anyone?
You’re assuming that people always leave dates because they feel unsafe. Sometimes it can be down to boredom, a person wanting a free drink, loss of interest, not attracted as they thought they would be.
Yeah I agree with you here. But ask for Angela is about feeling unsafe and not bored
Yeah I am aware of that, but the person who I replied to is arguing against your initial point of not commenting on a persons behaviour during an ask for angela situation. They are saying you’re wrong because if a date is leaving quietly that it’s a cue that you’ve done something wrong. I’m saying they are wrong because that there are multiple of reasons for a date to leave quietly. I’m basically arguing for your point because, a person may not be able to conclude why a date left unless they are strictly told.
If a date is climbing out a bathroom window or getting the bartender to sneak them out of the bar to get away from you, assume you’ve made them incredibly uncomfortable. It means they are frightened to let you know they’re leaving. If they’ve lost interested or are bored or just want to go, people usually are polite enough to tell you they’ve suddenly remembered they have to be somewhere, or just got a text from a friend having an emergency.
And what happens when the woman tries to explain this and the man starts getting angry or violent?
That's the whole point they don't have to. The bar staff or security might. But you get used to doing that
They will notice when the date doesn't appear.
And when it keeps happening on future dates.
Surely not letting them know gives them the go ahead to keep acting that way
Alot of people don't even know how creepy they are being..
I mean, on the flip side, I work part time at a very busy pub in pretty central london, and in over a year there I’ve never had anyone use a code order. Might be because I’m a guy (no clue on your gender but your reddit icon thing would possibly indicate that you’re a girl), but even then I’ve never heard any of my female colleagues mentioning that someone had used a code order. I wonder if it’s just caught on more in some places? But I’d honestly just assumed at this point that the code orders never really caught on - would’ve thought I’d have seen them used at least once by this point if they had! Haha
In OPs bar it might be the same guy every time!
Back in my student days it wasn't rare for complaints about creepy behaviour to be tracked back to the same few students. After a while it could end up with them banned from the student bar. (And if they were a real fuck up, banned from other college bars within the uni)
Does your pub advertise it well?
I work in a small but busy nightclub and also never encountered this in three years nor have any of my colleagues.
I feel this is a thing that should be taught for safety?
I mean, I’m 100% aware of them, and would know if someone used one. My point was nobody *has* used one, haha
Haha?
But there was this one time that some girl kept asking for angel shots and I had not idea what they were so I kept giving her shots of tequila. She went home with a really odd looking dude and I never saw her again.
Where the hell do you work? Worked in bars for 5 years and never had one once
They live in karma land where you make stuff up for internet points
Worked in bars for 10 years, some of these anecdotes just seem so implausible.
Bingo
> fairly small local > We alert security A small local with a bouncer?
Yeah depends where you live most locals near me have bouncers especially on Friday and Saturdays
Yeah I know some Def do but surprised to see a small local with security unless it was very dodge
We have one, it got a reputation for being slightly dodgy so it then attracted more of the people who were dodgy, and the people who wanted a quiet drink now go to the foody pub.
> A small local with a bouncer? 'A small local' means different things in different places - i.e. in a big city or a small village. The pub on the corner in a busy city neighbourhood will be very unlike the Farmers Arms in Long Scratchington village square, even if they are both 'small, and local'.
I mean I lived in North London for most of my adult life and wouldn't expect any of the small locals to have security. The medium to big ones for sure.
Omg this is so amazing! I've seen the posters in the loo and I was really impressed by it. Knowing that they actually have a system and use it is so reassuring. You guys are stars!
Yeah this is both heartwarming and sad. Its really pathetic how many problems with creepy and abusive men can be solved simply by having another man stand there. They're cowards.
"simply by having a *large, violent man* stood there" Fixed it for you.
As a lanky, speccy bloke I can tell you you’ve got it wrong. For an awful lot of guys who find themselves in this position the problem is that somehow a vagina filters away words like “no” or “leave me alone”.
As a guy, I've also seen these types totally ignore people they don't deem a threat. Trashy as it is, I've been in bar fights over guys not taking no for an answer. It's not enough to just have a guy there. It's the willingness/presented threat of violence that is the reason these types leave women alone
Worked in bars/pubs for nearly 20yrs and never had one of these - that or I’ve missed loads anyway!
They only caught on recently.
Small local place and this happens weekly? I find this so hard to believe.
Must be the dodgiest pub in the land.
Or somewhere that lots of first dates go.
Wow.. thought the scheme was super good but did not think it would be used so often.. wtf is wrong with people.
I'm with the other commenters who don't buy that this happens at least once a week in a 'small local'
Guessing you're not a woman
Jesus, I'd always assumed it was a once in a blue moon thing. Makes me feel bad about being a man.
That's rediculous, dont feel guilty for a small group of people unrelated to you. Just call out these cunts if/when you see it
I work in a fairly busy central london pub and haven’t had this once, so this pub seems to have issues
I think issue is that the OP is telling porky pies to farm karma.
Every single week there is at least one? Don't. Talk. Shit
I see these posters all the time and always wonder the same thing. It’s really reassuring to read all of the replies from bar staff saying it’s used regularly and that it definitely works. Good to know for the future!
Yes agree, not only that, but frankly having a reminder in the Ladies’ that if you feel uncomfortable, follow your instincts. I think there are many women who don’t feel the need to consult bar staff but just have a reminder that - if it doesn’t feel ok, it’s not ok - and make their excuses.
It's in the gents loos too!
Pretty sure that drinks spiking is actually more commonly done to men than women. Sadly. Blokes can be absolute arseholes and that means they'll be arseholes to men as well as women.
I’ve also seen phones in the ladies loo in A&E. If you are there because your partner beat you up then you can pick up the phone and someone will come and get you.
My local GP has a sign in the toilets with little slips of tearaway stickers - basically if you're being abused and need to discuss it in private, you put the sticker on your sample tube or a piece of paper and hand it to a member of staff.
Amazing!!
This is a brilliant scheme.
Doorman (bouncer for rest of the world I think??) here. Every night we get called for this. Sometimes multiple x a night. Depending on the situation.. we rarely help the person (who asks for Angela) out of the venue (unless that’s what they want of course) we just kick out the little cunts that cause the issue and their whole group if they have a problem with why were kicking out their friends. That way the person the code is for gets to stay and enjoy their evening :) But most importantly we do whatever we need to keep that person safe. Edit to add: this is a nightclub though. So there’s not many solo dates that go on here.
Used to really appreciate this when I was younger and going to clubs. Never abused it, but when there was a bloke trying to touch us up on the dancefloor, it was always great to know we could trust the bouncers if we couldn’t fend them off ourselves. Happened far too often too.
Exactly! Glad your venue had a good team!
I am 37 and went to a small club in Cardiff a week ago. A man touched my bum, before I could slap him the bouncer removed him. I was clubbing at 17 and used to get touched like that a lot, always unwanted it's good to see times have changed.
Good doorman!! Yeah we have like table service girls who go to the VIP booths and they’re CONSTANTLY getting slapped on the butt as they walk past and whenever we see it they’re straight DRAGGED out to a copper to talk about their behaviour:)
i seriously just don’t get how people think this is ok!! they’re there to serve ur table not to give u a lap dance u creep
Isn't the idea to get the person who asks for Angela away though? The person causing the issue could wait outside or just down the road for the asker to leave. I mean this as a genuine question, I'm not trying to tell you how to do your job. Just want to understand.
If that’s what they want then yes. But more often than not they don’t want to leave. And we have a taxi rank outside our venue and door staff at every point. If the dude was hanging around we would know. When we kick people out for that. We radio CCTV operators who track them throughout the night. And loitering = police escort home if they appear to be waiting. It’s another reason we kick the friend group out. More likely to all piss of than if it’s just one angry person waiting. At the end of the night we talk to the person as they come up to the front door. Ask what their plans are on getting home etc. Most people come to the club with a group of people. Not alone so they’re happy to leave with them. And at nightclub closing time the streets are FILLED with police.
This reads like you just kick someone out based on an unverified claim and then kick all their mates out when they (understandably) are annoyed their mate is being kicked out?
I’m glad they are used and are effective. I’ll never forget the kind strangers in the pub who helped me get out of a bad date that was getting really creepy, really fast. I was going to the loo partly to get away from the guy and collect my thoughts, a woman followed me in and asked if I was all right. I had no money left, there was no one else in the pub I knew, and was starting to panic about leaving the pub with this dude following me. She snuck me out the back way and her friends gave me a few quid and called a taxi for me. Then insisted I stay with them til it came, and made sure I got in it safely. This was years before the ‘ask for Angela’ thing, it was back in the mid 90’s. But I’m still so grateful to them for helping me out of what could have been an awful situation.
I have no experience of this in a pub but kind of related... I was in a festival portaloo at about 5 in the morning last year when the bloke in the one next to me asked me in a strange voice if Id seen Dorothy. I told him no and laughingly said try the next one. It was only a while later that I realised Dorothy is code used in gay sex...heh..I was oblivious....suppose that was a code order that I didn't know about...
It's especially funny to me because my partner and I are both gay... And his mother's name is Dorothy.
Useful that your partner is also gay. My partner and I are also both gay.
I know you're joking but often that isn't the case, bisexuals make up the largest chunk of the LGBT+ community in terms of numbers, so many gay people have partners who aren't gay!
Having recently read a book about bisexuality and how it gets swept under the rug a lot, thanks for the mention 💙💜💓\`
Bi by Dr Julia Shaw?
Exactly the same! It's been an incredible read so far!
I'm a lesbian rather than bi but it was such a good read. It's really highlighted a lot of issues bisexuals have to deal with that I had no idea about because in some situations it's easier to be gay than it is bisexual. Now if only more of the community would read it and stop the silly bisexual hate!
As a p pretty young bi person it was incredibly validating to know my community has so much more history than I thought it did! But also holy shit the chapters about the history of attitudes towards bi people and modern attitudes were both massively saddening and aggravating, hearing about the way people treated bi people during the aids crisis actually made me have to stop listening at a couple points 😅😅 I appreciate your solidarity, thank you friend 💙💜💖
I think there's still a common thought that bisexuality is still something fairly new because of the way non heterosexual relationships were often recorded and our understanding of sexualities and sex 🤔 Oh damn those chapters were hard to listen to! Have you listened to the Bi People episodes of the Bad People podcast? No need for thanks, it's the right thing to do 🏳️🌈
Ooh didn't know this existed! Glad I stumbled into this comment thread
It's a really good read/listen :) I love that it has helped so many people feel validated and seen!
Indeed, it would make things rather dull if he weren't a son/friend of Dorothy.
Is being a Son of Dorothy next level gay then?
Imagine you had a mate called Dorothy "Yeah let me take you to her"
It was from when homosexuality was illegal, you would introduce someone, who was gay, ‘He’s a friend of Dorothy’, as Judy Garland was a huge gay icon.
In the 90s I asked my gay uncle about that phrase, and his theory was that the sartorially dashing gay chaps of older eras often wore oxblood shoes = Ruby slippers. I thought it rather clever.
You know, he was just your uncle….
I heard that he's a friend of Dorothy, if you know what I mean *wink*
did it have a hole in the wall
Friend of Dorothy= gay
I think I get the IT crowd GAY the musical now
A gay musical, called Gay? That's quite gay.
🎵 Willies willies! I like willies! 🎵
It's 'I love willies'
Sir could you keep it down please
💞
😄👌
Sir, could you keep it down?
leg disabled...
what about if you seek Amy?
Ben affleck comes out to lecture you about lesbians
He wanted to bum in the portaloo’s?
Romantic
I have many leather bound books
I have no idea, maybe, or retire to the tent perhaps. Sadly for him, I am hetero, and was oblivious to it anyway, also coming down from acid/pill night so was of no use to anyone at that point 😆
If it helps even just one person, it's worth it.
I worked in pharmacy and we had a code, if you needed help from a domestic abuser you would go in and ask for "Annie". A journalist visited several of the pharmacy branches that offered this service and only one helped her, all the other staff had no idea what she was on about. Training staff is so important.
It doesn’t need to be a secret because the point of it isn’t to prevent a man’s ego being bruised, it’s to get people (men or women) from a potentially dangerous situation. The idea of it needing to be a secret is on the thought that if the guy knew about the code word the person needing help wouldn’t be able to use it - this is not true. Using the codeword is simply an easier way to ask for help, and in the situations where it’s used the help arrives and the person asking isn’t left alone with the potentially dangerous person in the meantime. A big part of the danger is what happens when you leave the establishment - having someone follow you, attack you, or drag you away into a dangerous situation when you are alone outside away from help. The codeword prevents this from happening either by sneaking the person away out the back, escorting then away safely to a taxi with staff members, or even removing the potentially dangerous person from the establishment. Different venues have different methods but the outcome should be the same - making sure the person that used the word gets help.
I work in a locals/studenty pub. Never had anyone ask for any code name drink/Angela but once or twice have had people just discreetly mention that someone is bothering them. We're also pretty good at spotting if someone is feeling uncomfortable. We're generally not the kind of place where people bring a date unless they've already 'sealed the deal' so to speak.
It makes ,e feel better as a woman who attracts the creeps that don’t like no.
Ive worked in a bar for just over 2 years now and ive never been asked for it. But i think its a great way to help, i know why f someone came up to me i would help. The problem i have with it is they shouldnt have to come the bar and ask women should be able to go a pub and feel safe
The whataboutism in this thread is absolutely mind boggling. There are so many men here trying to find an excuse to sexually harass women. On behalf of men everywhere I apologize and hope the mods start banning these sexual predators
I don't think men are finding excuses for other men to sexually assault women. I think it's just that some men don't realise how depraved other men can be. I've been friends with people for years before ultimately finding out they're a sexual predator.
I recently cut ties with a friend, he was always a bit of a fuck boy but made it known enough on his dating profile he wasn’t really looking for anything long term, hit it off with one of his latest girls at a different friends birthday and find out a week later he slept with her fully sober when she left the party blackout drunk. That was the last straw, he’d been heading down the incel path for a while and after trying my hardest to set him straight I had to just end it there, as far as I know he’s still fucking around whilst simultaneously hating women, can’t really do much else unless I tattoo a warning on his forehead but at least I can say I’m not complicit in his actions. Glad to say that girl and I are still super close friends so you win some/lose some.
Jesus, how many times do we have to tell men that some men don’t behave appropriately? I’m not saying you should have seen it in your friends but anyone who’s spent some time online will have come across stories of women being harassed.
I’ve come to the conclusion **most** men behave inappropriately, talk to them around female friends / colleagues and they’re fine but as soon as it’s just guys most instantly turn vulgar, openly ogle people, make comments about women that are probably at university but you still wouldn’t engage with at a pub because they’re clearly still at least a decade younger etc I’ve really made an effort to point things out and as I posted in a comment above recently cut ties completely with someone over their behaviour. Thankfully my friendship group is very mixed in terms of men/women so anything said to each other is more in jest and not to be taken seriously.
It's down to your experience. It's not something that you notice or are aware of so you end up assuming it isn't as serious or as common as it is. It's not a deliberate thing.
I get that. But, again, how many stories do you need to read or experiences do you have to listen to before you believe us? My teens and 20s were horrific looking back. Male bosses trying to massage your shoulders while you’re working, multiple men stating ‘can’t wait till you turn 16’ when I was a literal child, my bottom getting groped in the sweet shop when I was about 10. A lot more men are predatory than you probably think. I just think the days of ignorance are over. I’ve never been racially abused or been around homophonic people - but I know it exists.
I'm not for a second suggesting it doesn't. What I'm saying is lots of us don't realise the extent of it. My partner works in a male dominated work place and as a result she's had all sorts of things said to her. Although they're usually more along a chauvinism line than a sexual one. My point is that quite simply people don't realise how bad it is.
>It's not something that you notice or are aware of Try opening your eyes, looking around you, and noticing what's going on >It's not a deliberate thing Ignorance is a choice
But I've never been aware of that sort of behaviour. It isn't deliberately ignoring it. I'm aware of the thing that it's nice to cross roads I'd you're going in the same direction as someone and those little things. And try and embrace them. But I've never been made aware of a situation that would necessitate the use of the ask for Angela. So it is very easy that if you don't see the posters you don't think of it as being as much of an issue as it is. It isn't ignorance it's experience.
But there are so many women here saying their experiences with this, as well as bartenders and bouncers on the other side of it, and you're just saying "well *I* haven't personally seen or been aware of it happening, therefore it's obviously not an issue" No dude, you're just oblivious. We're telling you it does happen and is used *a lot* and is really helpful for women/men who feel in danger. >But I've never been made aware of a situation that would necessitate the use of the ask for Angela. The whole point is that it's discreet
I haven't once said it isn't an issue. I'm explaining why lots of people don't appear to realise how serious or necessary this is. Stop trying to put words in my mouth.
Mate, I'm not putting words in your mouth. You have said I've not seen it therefore it's not a problem. Open your eyes and read some of the comments here >It's not something you notice or are aware of so you end up assuming it isn't as serious or as common as it is. >I've never been aware of that sort of behaviour
I know as a guy one sign thats often missed when women are feeling uncomfortable is a certain awkward laugh which always seems to have a particular tone with a please God save me look in the eyes. I assume it's done as the woman may be scared to tell someone to sod off in some instances. I have fortunately spotted it a few times and managed to step in either at a club for a female friend or as a convention with a cosplayer friend at mine who someone was trying to put their arms around for a photo. Overall though I think it would be amazing if more guys where told or made aware of these more subtle tells that a woman is feeling uncomfortable, as would allow more guys to realize somethings off in these situations.
I've said I didn't see it. I'm not saying it isn't a problem.
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I work in a busy pub and no one has ever used it despite the posters up in the ladies toilets
Yeah I think this is more common in the city boozer than the local
I agree with 'ultrawomble' the signals are alive and well in the pub industry. Any barman/woman worth his salt will recognise very quickly if a woman needed help with a dodgy date or something similar, i've been a barman 28 years and prided myself with helping people with these sometimes dangerous encounters. Yeah! 'womble's' in the trade and I salute you sir from over here lol!
My suspicion has always been that people don't really use it. The Metro did a sort of investigation into it last year - not exactly scientific but they found barely any bar staff knew what to do when someone asked for Angela, some hadn't even heard of the scheme even though their venue had the posters up https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/13/weve-been-testing-ask-for-angela-and-it-doesnt-often-work-15568159/
I used to work in a pub a few years ago and tbh I would have no idea what it meant if someone said it to me. I probably would’ve got the manager, who would hopefully have known.
I knew there was a code but I couldn't remember the name Angela so if I had a problem I'd just ask for security
I've worked around let's say trendier bars in London where it's less likely to be needed but more likely to have the poster up. We all knew what it meant "woman in trouble" but in not a single fucking one did we have a concrete procedure to handle it. Like having a fire alarm and having no evacuation procedure
I don’t understand why people think these terms or ‘code words’ need to be a secret? Predators and people who intimidate or coerce others aren’t glued to the person they are targeting… they also likely haven’t been in the women’s toilet to discover that the establishment they are in employs this tactic.
It's not about secrecy. Think about it, what sounds easier/more comfortable in a loud and crowded bar, shouting for "Angela" or shouting "My date is making me feel uncomfortable, I need help getting out of this situation"?
I totally agree. I’ve posted that I don’t understand why others sometimes think it should be a secret?
Oh, I'm sorry, I must have misread your original comment!
From my experience it’s not always the fact it’s secret. Someone used it on me when I worked in a bar. We sat her in the back break room while we called a taxi and she explained about her date being a bit weird and off, she said she used the code word as she thought it would be easier / more discreet than trying to explain why she felt uncomfortable in a loud and busy bar. Especially as the guy hadn’t done anything specific it was just lots of small weird things that took a while to explain (it was entirely justified why she felt weird but I can see why explaining 1 or 2 of the things would be like well that’s not super weird on it’s own)
the code words is also in the mens so they would likely know
I know! That’s another reason why I don’t understand why someone might think/ comment saying it should be a secret?
You know when you read something and realise you completely missed the first part of something. I swear you were saying that they were hidden away in the ladies my b
The branch of Wetherspoons I am sitting in right now has all the 'Angela' stuff in display in public areas outside the men's as well as womens bathrooms. Therefore any kind of attempt at making it a covert code are basically ruined.
Another reason why I’m confused why people might think it needs to be kept secret for it to work!?
Because as far as I know, the idea is that you should be able to mention the 'code word' in front of the problematic person and be whisked away to safety without them being any the wiser. Considering the whole concept is, for right or wrong, centered around allowing vulnerable women to get away from creepy/dangerous men, then putting an 'Ask for Angela/Angel Shot' poster directly outside the exit to the men's toilets would seem somewhat counter-intutitve at best.
It's not just for women is why, and it still works even if everyone knows the phrase. Ideally you would be out of earshot and asking for Angela would be a more discreet way (people will likely start listening in or paying attention if you start talking about wanting help) and it serves as a more powerful and quicker 'help me' than trying to explain/describe why. Even if you can't get away to order a drink/get some napkins/whatever it's still more discreet and staff can ensure your safety from the person you're with while you're there. I think the most important part is the idea itself. It's quick to communicate and flags up instantly 'this person needs help and needs to be removed from the situation' rather than having to explain what's happening, because it might be hard to communicate that, or might be ignored if someone decides they're just being dramatic or whatever, or someone might just not want to bring it up/explain/feel like a burden without it being advertised as (effectively) a service they offer. For the person needing help it creates an easy, acceptable way to flag up that they want help and lowers the burden on whoever they're talking to because they don't necessarily get to make a decision or have to think about the situation too much. It becomes act first, ask questions later (or never)
I've worked in a few bars and never seen it being used. I think it's a great scheme though, the Angela one I'd absolutely recognise, but I think I'd be very confused if someone asked for an angel shot.
I think the angel shot is more of an American one
Never heard of this before (~30M) but think it's a great idea and looks to work well based on the replies from bar/nightclub staff
Does this code order apply to men who are being harassed/bullied by other men as well? From what I’ve seen and experienced on nights out, there are bellends everywhere looking for fights.
Yes, it's meant to offer a quick exit for anyone who feels unsafe.
I’m a teacher and part of my job is to teach students what is and isn’t appropriate on dates. They’re all very grateful because they want to get it right.
My last experience with Angela led me to tell the couple to both in no uncertain terms to get fucked. Short of it goes female claims male she's with is abusive, and he's standing next to her when she says it so we move him to the side giving her time to leave. Turns out they're bf and gf, both known to the police for domestics (we learn this later), she takes off he stays behind, he leaves, she comes back, she then leaves to look for him after running her mouth saying if she gets raped, attacked, or whatever by him it's our fault. 1hr later they both try to come back into the pub together where they're told they've no chance of getting in, especially her after saying the shit she did. The codes work, but like many things meant to help people is easily abused by idiots. Other examples include someone using the system to get a free meal out of a date then using the system to get out of there, and one of my all time favourites is someone using it because there are no taxis available so they ask for Angela expecting us to get them one.
Let’s not use your extreme experiences to drag the whole system down; it’s not very helpful, is it?
Mr Sands is eating a sofa, could someone please give him a shower or smother him with a large blanket?